Can we ACTUALLY be realistic for once?

[RunYouOver]

Editors Note: This report on the state of the Broncos can also be seen on BroncosCountry by RunYouOver.

Sorry about that ;)

For the most part, people seem much more of what I consider realistic on this board, but I posted it on Broncos Country, and I think I should post it here too.

It's pretty much dealing with all those fans who think they're being "realistic" when they say we're done and we have too many problems to compete.

Here it is:



There's clearly issues with the Broncos right now, but looking at it "realistically" doesn't mean declaring the season over.

Not even close.

Being realistic and saying that we have problems is like telling A-Rod he's rich. Not only is it brazenly obvious, but it's something that shouldn't even be said.

If you're "realistic" you're looking at this season as lost, we have too many problems, a young team, and the city's baseball team is outperforming the football team...a usual sign of disaster for the Broncos.

If you're actually realistic, you can look at the season in a few ways. For one, we're a half game back in our division, and that's ONLY because we had a bye week. We're essentially tied, not quite, but kind of.
Secondly, we've had injuries. Javon's been out a few weeks, and most people haven't been completely healthy.

Did you "realistic" fans forget that just TWO games ago, without our best receiver, our best safety and on the road, we were up 10-0 to the best team in football? Is it that hard to remember?

I have no shame in losing that game, and most other fans shouldn't have any either. They ARE the best team in the league (Yes, better than the Pats, at least in my opinion), we played them on the road, where they never lose, and we put up a good fight at least through the first 40 minutes or so. So we lost be 18, oh well, tough loss move on.

With Walker out again, we got blown out at home against San Diego.

Guess what? That game, believe it or not, only counts as ONE loss. ONE. That's it. Unless we get into some sort of bizarre tie breaking situation the margin by which we lost should have no effect on our season.

Who came into this season expecting us to sweep San Diego? Most people thought we would beat them at home and lose on the road, but hey, that can always be switched.

Cutler's making mistakes, but for the most part, they're not hurting us as much as a poor red zone offense (mostly not his fault), and terrible rush defense.

As the defense gels that should improve. Or at least it can't get any worse.

That's not even the best part.

After we play Pittsburgh and Green Bay at HOME, we finish the season with:

Detroit, Kansas City, Tennessee, Chicago, Oakland, Kansas City, Houston, San Diego, Minnesota.

How could we not come out of that AT LEAST 6-3?

That'd mean we'd have at least 8 wins, not including I'd say 1 win in the next 2 games, so in all likelihood, we could easily finish at 9-7. The leaders of the West are 3-3 right now. If they finish 6-4 we would tie them with a 9-7 record.

And I'm predicting 9-7 as our WORST possible record. I'd say 10-6 is where we finish, meaning either Kansas City, Oakland, or San Diego would have to go either 7-3 or 8-2 just to TIE us.

How is this season anywhere close to over?

How is it time to think about the draft?

NO team in this division seems dominant, and since we're half a game behind now, I'm going to be realistic; This season's no where close to over.

Now sit down, shut up, and watch our young team improve and compete.:beer:

[Lonestar]

No team in this conference dominant did you see what SAN did last game against us?

Be realistic and call a spade a spade.

The OLINE was bad before Nalen went down.

The DLine sucks so bad DEN just might get a Name Hurricane before the season is over.

The games are win or lost in the trenches and both are near disasters as we speak.

And now Thenry is gone in three weeks .

Adiós, syonora, auf wiederschein, ciao, goodbye.

"Wait till next year" is the chant I hear in the stands already .

If you indeed listen real well, you too can hear it also.

[jlarsiii]

RYO, you are going off of expectations instead of realism. The realism of our situation is that the team has lost three games in a row. Now, I can go on to say I expect the team to improve, and if they improve enough they can very well turn around and be competing for a playoff spot by the end of this season.

However, I like the idea of a past performances as future predictors and using that tactic then our three game skid could signify many more losses to come. We didn't just lose our last home game. . . we got *****-slapped.

I expect the team to improve. I expect them to grow as a group. What I can't do at this point is sprinkle fairy dust on the situation and hope that it improves. The Broncos will have to prove it to me on the field. Until that happens I have my doubts as to this season getting any better then what the first 5 games have shown our team to be.

[lex]

Editors Note: This report on the state of the Broncos can also be seen on BroncosCountry by RunYouOver.

Sorry about that ;)

For the most part, people seem much more of what I consider realistic on this board, but I posted it on Broncos Country, and I think I should post it here too.

It's pretty much dealing with all those fans who think they're being "realistic" when they say we're done and we have too many problems to compete.

Here it is:



There's clearly issues with the Broncos right now, but looking at it "realistically" doesn't mean declaring the season over.

Not even close.

Being realistic and saying that we have problems is like telling A-Rod he's rich. Not only is it brazenly obvious, but it's something that shouldn't even be said.

If you're "realistic" you're looking at this season as lost, we have too many problems, a young team, and the city's baseball team is outperforming the football team...a usual sign of disaster for the Broncos.

If you're actually realistic, you can look at the season in a few ways. For one, we're a half game back in our division, and that's ONLY because we had a bye week. We're essentially tied, not quite, but kind of.
Secondly, we've had injuries. Javon's been out a few weeks, and most people haven't been completely healthy.

Did you "realistic" fans forget that just TWO games ago, without our best receiver, our best safety and on the road, we were up 10-0 to the best team in football? Is it that hard to remember?

I have no shame in losing that game, and most other fans shouldn't have any either. They ARE the best team in the league (Yes, better than the Pats, at least in my opinion), we played them on the road, where they never lose, and we put up a good fight at least through the first 40 minutes or so. So we lost be 18, oh well, tough loss move on.

With Walker out again, we got blown out at home against San Diego.

Guess what? That game, believe it or not, only counts as ONE loss. ONE. That's it. Unless we get into some sort of bizarre tie breaking situation the margin by which we lost should have no effect on our season.

Who came into this season expecting us to sweep San Diego? Most people thought we would beat them at home and lose on the road, but hey, that can always be switched.

Cutler's making mistakes, but for the most part, they're not hurting us as much as a poor red zone offense (mostly not his fault), and terrible rush defense.

As the defense gels that should improve. Or at least it can't get any worse.

That's not even the best part.

After we play Pittsburgh and Green Bay at HOME, we finish the season with:

Detroit, Kansas City, Tennessee, Chicago, Oakland, Kansas City, Houston, San Diego, Minnesota.

How could we not come out of that AT LEAST 6-3?

That'd mean we'd have at least 8 wins, not including I'd say 1 win in the next 2 games, so in all likelihood, we could easily finish at 9-7. The leaders of the West are 3-3 right now. If they finish 6-4 we would tie them with a 9-7 record.

And I'm predicting 9-7 as our WORST possible record. I'd say 10-6 is where we finish, meaning either Kansas City, Oakland, or San Diego would have to go either 7-3 or 8-2 just to TIE us.

How is this season anywhere close to over?

How is it time to think about the draft?

NO team in this division seems dominant, and since we're half a game behind now, I'm going to be realistic; This season's no where close to over.

Now sit down, shut up, and watch our young team improve and compete.:beer:


Your whole theory is predicated on the defense gelling. If it doesnt gel, however, it will be hard to go 6-3 against those teams. San Diego, Kansas City X2, Oakland, and Minnesota can all run the football. If you cant stop the run, a lineup of easy games (according to you) becomes a murderers row. Not only that but I dont think Houston or Detroit are automatic wins. Same with the Bears.

[Stargazer]

RYO, you are going off of expectations instead of realism. The realism of our situation is that the team has lost three games in a row. Now, I can go on to say I expect the team to improve, and if they improve enough they can very well turn around and be competing for a playoff spot by the end of this season.

However, I like the idea of a past performances as future predictors and using that tactic then our three game skid could signify many more losses to come. We didn't just lose our last home game. . . we got *****-slapped.



You can even use the first two games as part of the equation. This team is borderline scary bad.

[Krugan]

RYO you had a great post until you went over the top and told people to sit down and shut up.

Everyone who takes the time to type out the words it requires to form their opinion into text, should be allowed to do so.

You have no reason to assume that your opinion is anymore "realistic" then those of the opposite stance.

Remove the last little, im better than you section, and hurray for an optimist!

[Stargazer]

I will also say this, if the Broncos come out of the bye and lay a big fat smelly turd on national TV the season is essentially over regardless of how close the Broncos are within the division lead.

[dogfish]

while i applaud your optimism, i simply don't agree. . . hey, i WANT the broncos to win as much as anyone, and even if they don't i will be there (well, spiritually-- physically i'll be in front of the tube, as i live 1,500+ miles from denver) through each and every painful loss, hoping for them to turn it around. . . but my realistic assesment is that this is just plain a bad team. . . that dosn't mean that we CAN'T turn it around, of course, but my expectations are low. . .



If you're actually realistic, you can look at the season in a few ways. For one, we're a half game back in our division, and that's ONLY because we had a bye week. We're essentially tied, not quite, but kind of.

the way we're playing the run, we're LUCKY we're not 0-2 in the division already-- i shudder to think what LT and LJ are going to do to us in our coming divisional games, and even the fade pounded us with the run. . . and don't look now, but san diego has woken up and remembered how to play-- unfortunately WE were the ones that rolled over and let them get their confidence back and start some momentum. . . :frusty:



Secondly, we've had injuries. Javon's been out a few weeks, and most people haven't been completely healthy.

i fail to see where this is grounds for optimism, considering that we can now add nalen to that list-- and hamilton, holdman and ekuban aren't coming back, either. . . simeon rice has now admitted that his shoulder still isn't healthy, so that signing looks like a wash ATM. . . and worst of all, walker has said that he expects his knee to be a problem all year, and that it will probably need surgery in the offseason. . . NOT good! i just hope it's not an ongoing thing, but with the injury "luck" we've had recently. . . yea. . .

lynch came back against san diego and didn't do us a bit of good. . . if we had some guys who'd been hurt and were set to return i could see your point, but instead all i see is one of our best weapons on offense fighting to avoid a suspension and stay on the field. . .



Did you "realistic" fans forget that just TWO games ago, without our best receiver, our best safety and on the road, we were up 10-0 to the best team in football? Is it that hard to remember?

no offense intended, i'm not at all trying to be snotty. . . but honestly, who cares which team was ahead after 20 minutes? buffalo had a 7-0 lead on new england before they put 30+ unanswered on 'em. . .



I have no shame in losing that game, and most other fans shouldn't have any either. They ARE the best team in the league (Yes, better than the Pats, at least in my opinion), we played them on the road, where they never lose, and we put up a good fight at least through the first 40 minutes or so. So we lost be 18, oh well, tough loss move on.

while i agree that there's no shame in losing to a better team, if you're looking to compete for a playoff spot this year, moral victories just aren't worth very much. . . maybe if we'd generated some momentum, but any little bit of confidence we might have saved after they dominated us in the second half vanished when we got utterly destroyed at home by our divisional foe. . .



With Walker out again, we got blown out at home against San Diego.

Guess what? That game, believe it or not, only counts as ONE loss. ONE. That's it. Unless we get into some sort of bizarre tie breaking situation the margin by which we lost should have no effect on our season.

Who came into this season expecting us to sweep San Diego? Most people thought we would beat them at home and lose on the road, but hey, that can always be switched.

hate to say it, but we'll be lucky to beat oakland on the road, let alone san diego. . . and it's not just the L, it's the way we got it-- getting frickin' PULVERIZED and HUMILIATED at home is not good for morale. . . the same things we've struggled with all year bit us in the butt once again, and we've shown absolutely no signs of making any improvements in those areas. . . instead, we're actually getting worse at the things we were doing well early in the season, such as pass coverage. . . this team is going backwards right now, not forwards. . .



Cutler's making mistakes, but for the most part, they're not hurting us as much as a poor red zone offense (mostly not his fault), and terrible rush defense.

i'm fine with the way cutler is playing given the circumstances-- naturally he doesn't look lik a ten-year vet out there, but right now he's the least of my worries. . . however, i'm afraid that we're putting FAR to much pressure on a young QB by expecting him to pick up the entire team and cover for all their mistakes. . . he has a lot of talent, but he's just not developed to the point where we can reasonably expect him to pull our bacon out of the fire when we can't stop anybody or keep from giving the ball away on special teams. . .



As the defense gels that should improve. Or at least it can't get any worse.

who says it's going to get any better? maybe it's not a question of gelling-- maybe we just plain don't have the proper personnel. . . i certainly HOPE they'll get better, but right now i see absolutely no reason to THINK they're going to get better. . . we're not even making progress, unless getting progressively worse counts. . .



That's not even the best part.

After we play Pittsburgh and Green Bay at HOME, we finish the season with:

Detroit, Kansas City, Tennessee, Chicago, Oakland, Kansas City, Houston, San Diego, Minnesota.

How could we not come out of that AT LEAST 6-3?

very, very easily-- if buffalo and oakland were both within a hair of beating us, why should we think we have better than even odds of beating anyone? you honestly think we're better than kansas city right now? we're not. . . teneessee is playing nasty, physical, smashmouth football, and if we don't toughen up considerably they'll just push us all over the field like little kids. . . i don't even want to think what adrian peterson is gonna do to us. . . :ahhhhh: i'd say odds are way better than even that we're going to be 2-5 and dead in the water two weeks from now, and this in no way, shape or form strikes me as a team that's even remotely capable of going 7-2 down the stretch, let alone the 8-1 that would be necessary to make a serious playoff run IMO (norv turner remembered he had LT on the team, and chris chambers isn't going to hurt that offense either). . .



And I'm predicting 9-7 as our WORST possible record. I'd say 10-6 is where we finish, meaning either Kansas City, Oakland, or San Diego would have to go either 7-3 or 8-2 just to TIE us.

what you're calling "realistic," i'm calling highly "optimistic". . . i see 7-9 as a much more likely finish for us. . . .

so in summary, the season ISN'T over-- but it most certainly is going to be if we keep playing the way we're playing right now! we can't stop ANYBODY from cramming the ball down our throats, and that's just not a formula for solid football. . . especially when you have a lot of injuries, an inexperienced QB, and "special" teams so bad that they can actually cost you games-- what do you think our coverage units will do against devin hester if they can't stop michael turner and roscoe parrish? also, the worst part about getting hammered by the run all the time is that the injures start to mount in a hurry when you're always the team taking the beating. . . and it makes it very difficult to get any rhythm going on offense when they're always on the bench sitting on their hands. . .

i'm sorry if you don't like the negativity, but we really do feel that we're being realistic. . . again, it's not anywhere close to what i WANT, but i'm an honest guy-- i call it like i see it, and right now i just don't see much of any reason for optimism for this team. . . of course it's not impossible for them to improve, and i do agree that we'll see some better games after we get through these next two tough weeks, but i really don't see any evidence of improvement as of right now. . . a few more losses and any type of playoff run is out of the question unless the other teams in the division totally stink it up. . .

[Broncos Mtnman]

I like it, RYO!!

:2thumbs:

[NameUsedBefore]

And I'm predicting 9-7 as our WORST possible record.


We're all one in the same and reality is but a projection of our imaginations.

[LoyalSoldier]

I am willing to see if the defense will pick up at all since they are learning a new scheme. However the offensive injuries do not help at all.

I think this team is at a stage where they are learning each other. You have to keep in mind that we have just changed the starting DTs, DE, QB, MLB, OLB, CB 2, WR 2+3, RB, TE, RT, RG, C, ect. That is a huge portion of the team that has changed in the last year.

If they are down the whole year it is understandable. Though if they put it together this year it would be even better.

[pnbronco]

RYO I really hope you are right. The problem is that right now there are a lot of problems with the team and I don't see any real solutions ahead of them. This young team will come together, but I don't really see it happening this year or in time to make a real run for the playoffs. When it really hit me was when someone said that the Broncos played the same night as the Avs and the Avs scored more points. I think that put it in a nut shell. I am and will remain a Bronco fan, I just don't see the glass as half full this time...

[shank]

i agree with a lot of what you said, and still see us very much in the race to the playoffs.

i don't know how or when it happened, but i must have missed when Merriam-Webster's made it official that Realism=Pessimism and i'm tired of hearing everyone say that unless you admit that we're the worst team to ever play the game that you're an idiot homer who can't deal with the facts.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I think about the NFL Draft every day.

[jlarsiii]

i agree with a lot of what you said, and still see us very much in the race to the playoffs.

i don't know how or when it happened, but i must have missed when Merriam-Webster's made it official that Realism=Pessimism and i'm tired of hearing everyone say that unless you admit that we're the worst team to ever play the game that you're an idiot homer who can't deal with the facts.

Well, that isn't really a fair to look at it that way Shawshank. Realism doesn't equal unending optimism either. Realism is an assessment of the current situation. More importantly, it is someone's opinion of the situation. Saying that someone's evaluation of the situation is not valid because it has a tone you don't like doesn't get us anywhere. I don't have to like it either, but instead of saying I don't like your post because I don't agree with the tone I would rather say this is how I see it differently.

For me right now I am having a hard time seeing the silver lining of this team after the last three games. It doesn't mean that the team is the worst or that they can't get better. All it means is that based on the last performances of the team I expect the same out of them until they show me something else. That could happen this Sunday, or it might not happen for another month. It is wait and see time. . . .

[underrated29]

ryo, i also think we will turn it around after we get passed gb, I said that from the start of the year over at bm, that the first half of the chedule was the toughest and if we came out with a winning record we should be fine as the 2nd half is much easier.

however, we didnt, and on top of that the defense sucks! plus injuries and etc. but i still think that we will take 1 game from kc, and we should be able to beat det and chi, and if there is no VY in tenn. I could see that aswell.

so really your not to off from what i think will happend. I only think we will win those, because they arent the greatist running teams. BUt we certainly make teams look good running.

so its either they stay the same running, or we get better at defending the run:rofl::hahaha: and we win. OR they get better or we stay the same and we dont.

the season is not lost yet, but we are pushing it big time.

[Lonestar]

I am willing to see if the defense will pick up at all since they are learning a new scheme. However the offensive injuries do not help at all.

I think this team is at a stage where they are learning each other. You have to keep in mind that we have just changed the starting DTs, DE, QB, MLB, OLB, CB 2, WR 2+3, RB, TE, RT, RG, C, ect. That is a huge portion of the team that has changed in the last year.

If they are down the whole year it is understandable. Though if they put it together this year it would be even better.

One would hope they get better but unless they fix that gaping hole at DT this defense can not get better to the point of dominating. They may be able to slow the RB's down to just 150 yards per game and therefore the passing stats will go into the toilet. We might be able to contain the run but then putting pressure on the QB is another story altogether.

[Medford Bronco]

Your whole theory is predicated on the defense gelling. If it doesnt gel, however, it will be hard to go 6-3 against those teams. San Diego, Kansas City X2, Oakland, and Minnesota can all run the football. If you cant stop the run, a lineup of easy games (according to you) becomes a murderers row. Not only that but I dont think Houston or Detroit are automatic wins. Same with the Bears.

Lex great points, I agree with you. If you do not stop the run and this team in 20 Qtrs has done very little of that, It seems more like a 4-5 in those games or 3-6 IMO.

Also the game at KC is almost always a loss, even with our Best teams over the years, minus 98 of course. I say Shanny is like 2-11 there. :ahhhhh:

I see a 7-9ish record. I hope I am wrong and will root very hard all the time for us to win, but this is more realistic than 10-6 or 9-7

Also a point that is not well enough taken. We have not had a turnover free game since the last Pitt game in November (a total of 13 straight with at least one turnover, which is our record is 5-8 in those games.) That is just not accetpable to any team trying to win on a consistent basis.

[Mike]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

-----------------------

[RunYouOver]

Hey, I'm all for a debate, so I kind of enjoy all the disagreement thus far.

First, by me saying sit down and shut up, I'm not trying to come off as "Better than you", but more "Let's all relax and watch football" ;) Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Now...


The run defense IS a problem, and it doesn't look like it can get a lot better, but can it get any worse? As it is it's far and away the highest in the league, I don't think it's going to stay that high. Now I'm not saying it'll go down to 130 a game, but I think it's quite possible to get it down to 160 a game, as DJ continues to get used to MLB, Rice gets more playing time, and the players become used to the new defensive scheme.

Don't forget, our D-Line is VERY different, DJ's playing a whole new position--a very important one at that--, Dre's on a new team, and most importantly, we have a whole new defensive plan under Bates.

If you don't think that will improve as the season goes on, tell me why. Why wouldn't it at least get a LITTLE better as the players get used to everything.

Next, can we talk about our offense?

Last game was pathetic, no way around it. Before that though, we came "oh so close" against Jacksonville too many times, we settled for short FGs too often instead of touchdowns against Indy, same with Buffalo and especially Oakland.

Most importantly, we were MOVING the football each week. We've had TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE luck no matter what anyone tries to tell you. We shouldn't have started 0-2, we SHOULD have been 2-0, we DESERVED to win those two games.

The greatest indication of that is total yards. We dominated those first two games. You're going to tell me that we're going to continue to "Just miss" the endzone? We're going to get more offensive pass interferences calling back TDs? That's not going to improve?

Our offense is GOOD. Henry's been great, Cutler hasn't been awful at all, Walker and Marshall AND stokely have been great. And Scheffler's going to get better. Wait for Graham to continue to get used to our schemes, and he'll improve too.

I hate hearing that we SHOULD HAVE lost against Oakland. DID YOU EVEN WATCH THE GAME? Tipped pass for an INT TD, THAT is luck. A perfect punt resulting in a safety? THAT is luck. B-Marsh pushing off when he would've have certainly caught the TD anyway? That's just bad playing by a second year player, THAT would have iced the game pretty much, would have made it 24-3.

Take away Buffalo's ST TD, they did NOTHING all game, while we dominated but couldn't get into the endzone.

The run defense is awful, but counter that with an amazing pass defense, and our D isn't terrible.

Last game was pathetic, but it's one loss, we'll regroup, and I'm sure as hell that Shanny won't just let them forget about it.

I'm telling you this team will improve, and I subscribed to this thread so I can bump it when we ARE 9-7 or 10-6.

TRUST ME.

I watch the games way too closely, I'm way to big of a stats freak to not realize that the match-ups we have after the next two games FAVOR us.

And I really like the GB match-up too.

For one, they have BY FAR the worst rush offense in the league...if anyone WON'T take advantage of our D, it'll be them. Throw in our top pass D (stopping their only offense), they're in trouble offensively.

They've got a really tough D, but there's no reason we can't win that game 10-7 or even 9-7 or 6-3 or 6-0, etc...

[Mike]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

_____________

[lex]

Hey, I'm all for a debate, so I kind of enjoy all the disagreement thus far.

First, by me saying sit down and shut up, I'm not trying to come off as "Better than you", but more "Let's all relax and watch football" ;) Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Now...


The run defense IS a problem, and it doesn't look like it can get a lot better, but can it get any worse? As it is it's far and away the highest in the league, I don't think it's going to stay that high. Now I'm not saying it'll go down to 130 a game, but I think it's quite possible to get it down to 160 a game, as DJ continues to get used to MLB, Rice gets more playing time, and the players become used to the new defensive scheme.

Don't forget, our D-Line is VERY different, DJ's playing a whole new position--a very important one at that--, Dre's on a new team, and most importantly, we have a whole new defensive plan under Bates.

If you don't think that will improve as the season goes on, tell me why. Why wouldn't it at least get a LITTLE better as the players get used to everything.

Next, can we talk about our offense?

Last game was pathetic, no way around it. Before that though, we came "oh so close" against Jacksonville too many times, we settled for short FGs too often instead of touchdowns against Indy, same with Buffalo and especially Oakland.

Most importantly, we were MOVING the football each week. We've had TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE luck no matter what anyone tries to tell you. We shouldn't have started 0-2, we SHOULD have been 2-0, we DESERVED to win those two games.

The greatest indication of that is total yards. We dominated those first two games. You're going to tell me that we're going to continue to "Just miss" the endzone? We're going to get more offensive pass interferences calling back TDs? That's not going to improve?

Our offense is GOOD. Henry's been great, Cutler hasn't been awful at all, Walker and Marshall AND stokely have been great. And Scheffler's going to get better. Wait for Graham to continue to get used to our schemes, and he'll improve too.

I hate hearing that we SHOULD HAVE lost against Oakland. DID YOU EVEN WATCH THE GAME? Tipped pass for an INT TD, THAT is luck. A perfect punt resulting in a safety? THAT is luck. B-Marsh pushing off when he would've have certainly caught the TD anyway? That's just bad playing by a second year player, THAT would have iced the game pretty much, would have made it 24-3.

Take away Buffalo's ST TD, they did NOTHING all game, while we dominated but couldn't get into the endzone.

The run defense is awful, but counter that with an amazing pass defense, and our D isn't terrible.

Last game was pathetic, but it's one loss, we'll regroup, and I'm sure as hell that Shanny won't just let them forget about it.

I'm telling you this team will improve, and I subscribed to this thread so I can bump it when we ARE 9-7 or 10-6.

TRUST ME.

I watch the games way too closely, I'm way to big of a stats freak to not realize that the match-ups we have after the next two games FAVOR us.

And I really like the GB match-up too.

For one, they have BY FAR the worst rush offense in the league...if anyone WON'T take advantage of our D, it'll be them. Throw in our top pass D (stopping their only offense), they're in trouble offensively.

They've got a really tough D, but there's no reason we can't win that game 10-7 or even 9-7 or 6-3 or 6-0, etc...


The more relevant question is whether the defense can be good enough to accomplish what youre saying. Never mind its lowest point. It might get worse but it might also improve but even in that case, there is no guarantee it will be good enough. Its such a massive problem to have.

[RunYouOver]

The more relevant question is whether the defense can be good enough to accomplish what youre saying. Never mind its lowest point. It might get worse but it might also improve but even in that case, there is no guarantee it will be good enough. Its such a massive problem to have.

It is, but the offense will pick it up again too.

I doubt we have trouble scoring 10 points again any time soon.

[Lonestar]

It is, but the offense will pick it up again too.

I doubt we have trouble scoring 10 points again any time soon.

unless they can crack that redzone 10 might be a high point.

[RunYouOver]

unless they can crack that redzone 10 might be a high point.

Maybe we should have the NFL tell Denver that a field goal's worth 6 points.

They'll be in the endzone in no time.

[Medford Bronco]

Maybe we should have the NFL tell Denver that a field goal's worth 6 points.

They'll be in the endzone in no time.

Maybe Shanny should acutally use Daniel Graham
as a receiver in the red zone where he was
successful in NE.

Too many 3rd and goal from the 10 where Cutler throws underneath
:banghead:

[Retired_Member_001]

Our offensive line is going to kill Cutler.

Our linebackers couldn't tackle a little girl.

The defensive line doesn't help at all either.

Still I think this team can go 9-7. Just because Jay, Javon and Graham will score points and Champ and Dre' will save points aswell as pocketing a couple of their own. Fact is we have got some easy games that we should win.

As bad as our offensive line, defensive line and linebackers are, I still think we have got a chance.

[dogfish]

The run defense IS a problem, and it doesn't look like it can get a lot better, but can it get any worse? As it is it's far and away the highest in the league, I don't think it's going to stay that high. Now I'm not saying it'll go down to 130 a game, but I think it's quite possible to get it down to 160 a game, as DJ continues to get used to MLB, Rice gets more playing time, and the players become used to the new defensive scheme.

Don't forget, our D-Line is VERY different, DJ's playing a whole new position--a very important one at that--, Dre's on a new team, and most importantly, we have a whole new defensive plan under Bates.

If you don't think that will improve as the season goes on, tell me why. Why wouldn't it at least get a LITTLE better as the players get used to everything.

we're five games in and they haven't show any signs of improvement, at all, whatsoever. . . if the defensive tackles can't hold the point and occupy some blockers, it's not going to matter how familiar guys get with the scheme-- you still have to execute it! getting it down to 150-160 per game isn't going to help much-- at that rate, teams will still be grinding us down and winning the TOP battle. . .



Next, can we talk about our offense?

Last game was pathetic, no way around it. Before that though, we came "oh so close" against Jacksonville too many times, we settled for short FGs too often instead of touchdowns against Indy, same with Buffalo and especially Oakland.

Most importantly, we were MOVING the football each week. We've had TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE luck no matter what anyone tries to tell you. We shouldn't have started 0-2, we SHOULD have been 2-0, we DESERVED to win those two games.

The greatest indication of that is total yards. We dominated those first two games. You're going to tell me that we're going to continue to "Just miss" the endzone? We're going to get more offensive pass interferences calling back TDs? That's not going to improve?

Our offense is GOOD. Henry's been great, Cutler hasn't been awful at all, Walker and Marshall AND stokely have been great. And Scheffler's going to get better. Wait for Graham to continue to get used to our schemes, and he'll improve too.

it's great to talk about what we COULD do and what we SHOULD do, but in the end they have to get out there and do it. . . once again, i see no signs of improvement-- and having javon walker out for a month (what they're saying-- it could easily end up being longer) isn't exactly what the offense needs to get back on track. . .

Broncos | Walker to undergo surgery
Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:17:52 -0700

Denver Broncos WR Javon Walker (knee) is expected to undergo arthroscopic surgery on his right knee. Walker is expected to be out at least a month.

Broncos | Alexander placed on IR
Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:57:28 -0700

The Denver Broncos have announced they have placed TE Stephen Alexander (leg) on Injured Reserve, ending his 2007 season.


if you're excited about a slot receiver starting fulltime at the #2-- and glen martinez as the #3-- then you're seeing things differently than i am. . .

nalen done, hamilton done, alexander and jackson both done, and henry potentially suspended at some point. . . we are running out of weapons FAST! i love what brandon marshall has been doing, and i'm excited to see the chef getting in on the action, but if you call basing playoff hopes on matt lepsis, stokley, and a bunch of first-year starters "realistic," we'll just have to agree to disagree. . . again, i'm not saying it's impossible-- but we are running out of bodies at an alarming rate. . . :ahhhhh:

and red zone production has been a problem for a while now as well-- we haven't gotten it solved, or even made any great strides, over the past two years, and i don't see where we're getting any better at it. . . it's one thing to just say "we can score a lot more if we convert in the red zone," but it's another to actually do it. . .


Take away Buffalo's ST TD, they did NOTHING all game, while we dominated but couldn't get into the endzone.

that's just it, though. . . you CAN'T take it away, it happened! take away the 40 points the chargers scored against us, and we would have won the game. . . :laugh: if it was some isolated incident, i might be more inclined to agree with you, but unfortunately "special" teams has been absolutely killing us for the past two years. . . when was the last game where we didn't give up at least one kick return into our own territory? when was the last time we had one of those ourselves? now, they're not only killing us in terms of average field position, they're actually giving up TD returns and turning the ball over. . . . :frusty:



The run defense is awful, but counter that with an amazing pass defense, and our D isn't terrible.

actually, our pass defense isn't even amazing. . . our cornerback play against opposing wide receivers has been excellent, but we're the worst defense in the league against tight ends. . . and it's in question whether champ will be able to play this week. . .



Last game was pathetic, but it's one loss, we'll regroup, and I'm sure as hell that Shanny won't just let them forget about it.

I'm telling you this team will improve, and I subscribed to this thread so I can bump it when we ARE 9-7 or 10-6.

TRUST ME.

sorry bro. . . i like you, i respect your opinions, but i don't believe a word of it. . . hey, i would LOVE to be proven wrong, but i'm just not seeing what you're seeing. . .



I watch the games way too closely, I'm way to big of a stats freak to not realize that the match-ups we have after the next two games FAVOR us.

i watch the games and follow the stats as closely as anyone, and while i absolutely agree that our matchups will get easier, i don't agree that it means we'll necessarily win the majority of those games. . . we needed a wild last-minute comeback to beat buffalo, and we got destroyed at home the last time we played (and probably will this week as well)-- i don't see where we should be looking at ANY games this year as "easy" or "assured" victories. . .

if we can beat pitt-- hell, even keep it respectable-- talk to me then. . .

[Retired_Member_001]

Our offensive line is going to kill Cutler.

Our linebackers couldn't tackle a little girl.

The defensive line doesn't help at all either.

Still I think this team can go 9-7. Just because Jay, Javon and Graham will score points and Champ and Dre' will save points aswell as pocketing a couple of their own. Fact is we have got some easy games that we should win.

As bad as our offensive line, defensive line and linebackers are, I still think we have got a chance.

That one can be crossed off of the positives list then.

:mad:

[RunYouOver]

we're five games in and they haven't show any signs of improvement, at all, whatsoever. . . if the defensive tackles can't hold the point and occupy some blockers, it's not going to matter how familiar guys get with the scheme-- you still have to execute it! getting it down to 150-160 per game isn't going to help much-- at that rate, teams will still be grinding us down and winning the TOP battle. . .




it's great to talk about what we COULD do and what we SHOULD do, but in the end they have to get out there and do it. . . once again, i see no signs of improvement-- and having javon walker out for a month (what they're saying-- it could easily end up being longer) isn't exactly what the offense needs to get back on track. . .

Broncos | Walker to undergo surgery
Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:17:52 -0700

Denver Broncos WR Javon Walker (knee) is expected to undergo arthroscopic surgery on his right knee. Walker is expected to be out at least a month.

Broncos | Alexander placed on IR
Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:57:28 -0700

The Denver Broncos have announced they have placed TE Stephen Alexander (leg) on Injured Reserve, ending his 2007 season.


if you're excited about a slot receiver starting fulltime at the #2-- and glen martinez as the #3-- then you're seeing things differently than i am. . .

nalen done, hamilton done, alexander and jackson both done, and henry potentially suspended at some point. . . we are running out of weapons FAST! i love what brandon marshall has been doing, and i'm excited to see the chef getting in on the action, but if you call basing playoff hopes on matt lepsis, stokley, and a bunch of first-year starters "realistic," we'll just have to agree to disagree. . . again, i'm not saying it's impossible-- but we are running out of bodies at an alarming rate. . .

and red zone production has been a problem for a while now as well-- we haven't gotten it solved, or even made any great strides, over the past two years, and i don't see where we're getting any better at it. . . it's one thing to just say "we can score a lot more if we convert in the red zone," but it's another to actually do it. . .



that's just it, though. . . you CAN'T take it away, it happened! take away the 40 points the chargers scored against us, and we would have won the game. . . if it was some isolated incident, i might be more inclined to agree with you, but unfortunately "special" teams has been absolutely killing us for the past two years. . . when was the last game where we didn't give up at least one kick return into our own territory? when was the last time we had one of those ourselves? now, they're not only killing us in terms of average field position, they're actually giving up TD returns and turning the ball over. . . . :frusty:




actually, our pass defense isn't even amazing. . . our cornerback play against opposing wide receivers has been excellent, but we're the worst defense in the league against tight ends. . . and it's in question whether champ will be able to play this week. . .




sorry bro. . . i like you, i respect your opinions, but i don't believe a word of it. . . hey, i would LOVE to be proven wrong, but i'm just not seeing what you're seeing. . .




i watch the games and follow the stats as closely as anyone, and while i absolutely agree that our matchups will get easier, i don't agree that it means we'll necessarily win the majority of those games. . . we needed a wild last-minute comeback to beat buffalo, and we got destroyed at home the last time we played (and probably will this week as well)-- i don't see where we should be looking at ANY games this year as "easy" or "assured" victories. . .

if we can beat pitt-- hell, even keep it respectable-- talk to me then. . .

I will, you know that ;)

Anyway, if you took of the Chargers 40 points, wouldn't they be left with one?

I think that'd be some sort of record:first:

I understand why it's easy to doubt:

There hasn't been any sign of improvement coming.

It's hard to see anything after the team doesn't play during a bye week though, and I think we probably got better over that bye week (again nothing can be proved though). We'll just have to see how this plays out, but I'm using some facts, and some logical opinions to try to see how this could easily be turned around.

Let's hope I'm right :defense:

[jlarsiii]

Well RYO, I have never discredited our first two victories. I look at them the same way that you do. I don't think that we were "lucky" to win those two. I thought that we dominated those games for the most part but we didn't have the efficiency to put either game away when we should have. After that though this offense has started to worry me. It goes along with much of what other members have stated. Whether our drives stall because of a lack of execution, penalties, or terrible playcalling it all ends with the same result: us not putting 6 on the scoreboard. What really concerns me now is what Dogfish pointed out, and what we all know to be true, that we are losing starters left and right. I am interested to see what the guys that are filling in can do, but it also has me concerned that there is more potential for them to get overwhelmed. If our offense really sputters, and our defense plays like it has been, then we are going to be in for a very long Sunday. Of course that is an IF situation and doesn't mean that is what I expect to happen at all. It could happen though if things really don't go our way.

Moving back to the defensive side of the ball, what if it isn't just players still learning the system. Granted, I think that learning the system is definitely part of why our defense has not been good, but I believe now that what we are seeing out of certain players is what we should probably start to expect from them. We could talk for quite awhile about the woes of this defense, but what concerns me at this point is not whether they have adequately "learned" the new system or have become comfortable with each other more than maybe this is the best play that we can get out of some of our personnel. What that signifies is that the only way to improve our d in some areas is to get brand new players and that isn't going to happen at this point.

That means that even if specific players improve our defense as a whole will remain putrid against the run. That spells out disaster for us this season potentially. Now, with Champ possibly being out we will lose our best defensive (and special teams by the way) player and that isn't good at all. We would need a truly magnificent performance by our offense to carry the defense, and IMO that is asking waaay too much out of a second year QB who is working with a bunch of offensive injuries.

We could make the improvements and turn this season around, but with 5 games under our belt I am at the point where this team is going to have to show me that it can actually do this before I will believe it. It hasn't through the first five games (almost 1/3 of the season), and there isn't too much time left for this to happen if we want to make something of this season.

Two games from now we could be in the thick of things, but we may also be talking about how this just hasn't been our year and what would we like to see done (draft, personnel changes, etc.) in the very near future.

[DenBronx]

before the season started i thought we were a 10-6 team. now im hoping we go 7-9....

[omac]

Nice post, RunYouOver. The reality is that we are 2-3, and our run defense sucks. People can look at the problems in our team and guess whether these can be fixed or not.

This is a link to the recap of the game where Indy lost to Jacksonville, 44-17.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap?gid=20061210030


The Colts gave up 251 yards on the ground in the first half -- nearly 100 yards more than they averaged giving up in the previous 12 games.

"The thing I told the team is that we will see what we are made of from here," said Colts coach Tony Dungy, whose team suffered its worst loss since a 41-0 drubbing against the New York Jets in the 2002 postseason. "It's fixable. We are going to have to get it fixed to get where we want to go."

With the way the Colts were giving up running yardage last season, who honestly predicted that their run defense would solidifying during the playoffs? In hindsight, it might be easier to see how they turned it around, but while it was happening, it didn't look like they had any answers against the run.

I'm not saying Denver will fix their run defense immediately, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get it done. A lot of people have already given up on the season, and they could very well be right, but the season's far from over. Even if we lose to Pittsburgh, we can still win the division. Even if we can't fix our run defense, there will still be other ways to win; it'll just be a little tougher than usual, but Shanny and the Broncos have a lot of fight in them. :cheers:

[Medford Bronco]

before the season started i thought we were a 10-6 team. now im hoping we go 7-9....

great minds think alike:salute:

that is how I felt. I felt we were a WC team behind SD
at 10-6 or 9-7

now I feel that 7-9 will be an accomplishment IMO

6-10 would not shock me and I never am this negative on Denver.
Just seems like bad karma with deaths, injuries, a new defensive system etc.

In the long run I feel we will be okay but might have a rough year before
getting there

[RunYouOver]

if we can beat pitt-- hell, even keep it respectable-- talk to me then. . .

:welcome:

Hey dog.:D