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DenBronx
03-27-2009, 05:52 PM
For everyone wanting to get some good insights on who we will pick in the draft in April you might want to tune in this Monday at 6:30 est time. Path to the draft on NFL Network will also be discussing Jay Cutler.

This should be an interesting segment.

DenBronx
03-27-2009, 05:58 PM
With the need for QB's we might be in a great position for someone to trade up for Sanchez. Normanlly at 12 I'd like to see us stay put but if Raji is gone I say pull the trigger and trade down if someone calls us to trade up.

We still could be the Jets answer for a QB. Swap 1st and they send us this years 3rd plus next years 2nd.

claymore
03-27-2009, 06:02 PM
With the need for QB's we might be in a great position for someone to trade up for Sanchez. Normanlly at 12 I'd like to see us stay put but if Raji is gone I say pull the trigger and trade down if someone calls us to trade up.

We still could be the Jets answer for a QB. Swap 1st and they send us this years 3rd plus next years 2nd.

I agree at #12 I think we are in a position to take the best athelete or player at whatever position in the draft.

I am really hoping we draft for talent, and not need because every position outside of QB, LT, and long snapper can be improved upon.

EMB6903
03-27-2009, 06:02 PM
With the need for QB's we might be in a great position for someone to trade up for Sanchez. Normanlly at 12 I'd like to see us stay put but if Raji is gone I say pull the trigger and trade down if someone calls us to trade up.

We still could be the Jets answer for a QB. Swap 1st and they send us this years 3rd plus next years 2nd.

Ya I love where the Broncos are picking, if Sanchez or one of those high profiled Tackles drops out of the top 10 I see a lot of teams wanting to move up.... esspecially the Lions, eagles also have 2 first rounders and are looking to fill that LT spot now that Tra Thomas has left.... We are in perfect position to trade down into the 20's...

claymore
03-27-2009, 06:03 PM
Ya I love where the Broncos are picking, if Sanchez or one of those high profiled Tackles drops out of the top 10 I see a lot of teams wanting to move up.... esspecially the Lions, eagles also have 2 first rounders and are looking to fill that LT spot now that Tra Thomas has left.... We are in perfect position to trade down into the 20's...

Id rater take a stud running back at 20 than a reach whatever at 12.

DenBronx
03-27-2009, 06:09 PM
Id rater take a stud running back at 20 than a reach whatever at 12.

pick 20 would be a little lighter on the cap.

EMB6903
03-27-2009, 06:09 PM
Id rater take a stud running back at 20 than a reach whatever at 12.

I agree, I also think outside of Everette Brown and BJ raji nobody is really worth taking at 12 unless an elite prospect falls which is unlikely..... I'd also like to trade out of the 1st round completely and pick up 2 more first day picks and draft Jarron Gilbert with our first pick of the 2nd round....

omac
03-27-2009, 06:33 PM
Here's a link that gives an one-shot view of all the moves we made during the offseason, as well as our perceived needs.

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2009den.php

It might be a good complement to the broadcast, for those who need to get a clearer view of where we're going, with the big changes is defense and all.

underrated29
03-27-2009, 07:05 PM
Heh- its been in my sig for a while. Hope something similiar happens. OR BETTER!

Simple Jaded
03-27-2009, 07:07 PM
Picking in the 20's for most of the last decade is what got Denver in this condition, the two best players they've drafted were taken 11th and 12th, while every single 1st round bust they've had has been in the late teens/early 20's.

I know Shanahan is to blame for those mistakes, that's fair a point, but in less than a month on the job, this Front Office has already shown signs of being even worse at making personnel decisions.

Stockpiling picks in a draft this pathetic makes no sense anyway, imo, this draft sucks so let the Redskins or Saints have those extra Kory Licthenstieger's and Jack Williams'.

If anything, Denver should be packaging picks to move up if they can to get the player they really want.......

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 07:38 PM
Here's a link that gives an one-shot view of all the moves we made during the offseason, as well as our perceived needs.

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2009den.php

It might be a good complement to the broadcast, for those who need to get a clearer view of where we're going, with the big changes is defense and all.


Denver Broncos (Last Year: 8-8)

Season Summary:
A meltdown for the ages. At 8-5, all the Broncos needed was one win or a single Chargers loss to clinch the AFC West. We all know what happened. San Diego won its final three contests, while Denver lost to the Panthers (30-10), Buffalo (30-23 as 6-point favorites) and the Chargers (52-21). That's a combined score of 112-54. Mike Shanahan was fired soon after.


Offseason Moves:
Broncos re-sign TE Jeb Putzier
Vikings sign CB Karl Paymah
Broncos sign QB Chris Simms
Broncos sign RB LaMont Jordan
Broncos sign RB J.J. Arrington
Broncos re-sign DE/DT Kenny Peterson
Raiders sign OT Erik Pears
Broncos sign DE/NT Ronald Fields
Buccaneers sign ILB Niko Koutouvides
Broncos sign CB Andre Goodman
Broncos sign ILB Andra Davis
Broncos sign DT Darrell Reid
Broncos sign FS Brian Dawkins
Broncos sign FS Renaldo Hill
Broncos sign WR Jabar Gaffney
Broncos sign RB Correll Buckhalter
Broncos cut CB Dre Bly
Broncos cut DT Dewayne Robertson
Broncos cut TE Nate Jackson
Broncos cut ILB Niko Koutouvides
Broncos cut SS Marquand Manuel
Broncos cut Jamie Winborn
Broncos cut DE John Engelberger
Broncos cut DT Josh Shaw
Broncos cut RB P.J. Pope
Broncos cut RB Anthony Alridge
Broncos cut WR Cliff Russell
Broncos cut TE Chad Mustard
Broncos hire HC Josh McDaniels
Broncos announce retirement of C Tom Nalen


Offseason Needs:
Nose Tackle: Every 3-4 scheme needs a monstrous nose tackle clogging the middle of the defense, and that's something Denver doesn't have. Ron Brace is a candidate as a second-round pick. Signed Ronald Fields


Inside Linebacker: The Broncos had issues at linebacker in the 4-3. Now, they're playing in a scheme that requires more talented linebackers. Denver's 12th-overall selection could be used on Rey Maualuga. Signed Andra Davis


Defensive End: One of about 5,000 positions of need for Denver's defense. The Broncos really could use someone like Fili Moala or Tyson Jackson up front in their brand new 3-4 defense. Signed Darrell Reid; re-signed Kenny Peterson


Free Safety: With Marlon McCree hitting free agency, the Broncos will have to find themselves a new free safety. Denver had to get younger at the position anyway; McCree turns 32 in March. Signed Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill


Rush Linebacker: Elvis Dumervil, Denver's leader with five sacks in 2008, will be one of the new rush linebackers. Jarvis Moss will have first crack at the other position, but his 3.5 career sacks don't exactly scare opposing offensive coordinators. The Broncos will look to add a rush linebacker to compete for the job.


Cornerback: Champ Bailey and overrated Dre Bly will be 31 and 32 this spring, respectively. There was very little depth behind them even before Bly was cut. Signed Andre Goodman


Running Back: The Broncos went through seven running backs last year - Michael Pittman, Peyton Hillis, Selvin Young, Tatum Bell, Andre Hall, P.J. Pope and Ryan Torain - all of whom averaged at least 4.2 yards per carry. Credit the offensive line for that; not the runners. Denver could use a talented back like Knowshon Moreno, but the team has so many needs on defense that it really can't afford to spend the No. 12 selection on offense. Signed Correll Buckhalter, J.J. Arrington and LaMont Jordan


Center: Casey Wiegmann played well in relief of Tom Nalen last year, but he turns 36 in July. Denver needs a center for the future, as second-year Kory Lichtensteiger will likely replace Ben Hamilton at left guard in 2010.


Kicker: Matt Prater started the year off well and emerged as a fantasy kicking star. Unfortunately, he really struggled down the stretch. Following the team's Week 8 bye, Prater was just 12-of-20, and he missed a field goal in all but two games to close out the year. It's safe to say that Denver fans miss Jason Elam.


Special Teamers: Denver surrendered two touchdowns on special teams, allowing 11.8 per punt return and 24.7 per kickoff. This is yet another area that must be addressed.

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 08:00 PM
Picking in the 20's for most of the last decade is what got Denver in this condition, the two best players they've drafted were taken 11th and 12th, while every single 1st round bust they've had has been in the late teens/early 20's.

I know Shanahan is to blame for those mistakes, that's fair a point, but in less than a month on the job, this Front Office has already shown signs of being even worse at making personnel decisions.

Stockpiling picks in a draft this pathetic makes no sense anyway, imo, this draft sucks so let the Redskins or Saints have those extra Kory Licthenstieger's and Jack Williams'.

If anything, Denver should be packaging picks to move up if they can to get the player they really want.......

mike Shanahan got this team into trouble picking period..

here are the next 5 choices after ours

1996
15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown Denver Broncos
16 Duane Clemons LB California Minnesota Vikings
17 Reggie Brown OLB Texas A&M Detroit Lions
18 Eddie Kennison WR Louisiana State St. Louis Rams
19 Marvin Harrison WR Syracuse Indianapolis Colts
20 Daryl Gardener DT Baylor Miami Dolphins
and at 26
26 Ray Lewis MLB Miami (Fla.) Baltimore Ravens

1997
28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson Denver Broncos
29 Chris Canty DB Kansas State New England Patriots
30 Ross Verba T Iowa Green Bay Packers
1997 - Round 2
31 Rick Terry DT North Carolina New York Jets
32 Nathan Davis DE Indiana Atlanta Falcons
33 Rob Kelly DB Ohio State New Orleans Saints
34 Jamie Sharper OLB Virginia Baltimore Ravens

1998
30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee Denver Broncos
1998 - Round 2
31 Leon Bender -- Washington State Oakland Raiders
32 Jerome Pathon WR Washington Indianapolis Colts
33 Corey Chavous CB Vanderbilt Arizona Cardinals
34 Jacquez Green WR Florida Tampa Bay Buccaneers
35 Tony Parrish FS Washington Chicago Bears
and a little later..
44 Patrick Surtain DB Southern Mississippi Miami Dolphins
46 Samari Rolle CB Florida State Tennessee Oilers
48 Stephen Alexander TE Oklahoma Washington Redskins

1999
31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee Denver Broncos
1999 - Round 2
32 Kevin Johnson WR Syracuse Cleveland Browns
33 Charles Fisher CB West Virginia Cincinnati Bengals
34 Chris Terry T Georgia Carolina Panthers
35 Barry Gardner OLB Northwestern Philadelphia Eagles
36 Mike Peterson OLB Florida Indianapolis Colts
37 Jon Jansen T Michigan Washington Redskins
38 Mike Rucker DE Nebraska Carolina Panthers

2000
15 Deltha O'Neal CB California Denver Broncos
16 Julian Peterson OLB Michigan State San Francisco 49ers
17 Sebastian Janikowski K Florida State Oakland Raiders
18 Chad Pennington QB Marshall New York Jets
19 Shaun Alexander RB Alabama Seattle Seahawks
20 Stockar McDougle T Oklahoma Detroit Lions

2001
24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota Denver Broncos
25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA Philadelphia Eagles
26 Jamar Fletcher DB Wisconsin Miami Dolphins
27 Michael Bennett RB Wisconsin Minnesota Vikings
28 Derrick Gibson DB Florida State Oakland Raiders
29 Ryan Pickett DT Ohio State St. Louis Rams
30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (Fla.) Indianapolis Colts
and
32 Drew Brees QB Purdue San Diego Chargers

2002
19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii Denver Broncos
20 Javon Walker WR Florida State Green Bay Packers
21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado New England Patriots
22 Bryan Thomas DE Alabama-Birmingham New York Jets
23 Napoleon Harris MLB Northwestern Oakland Raiders
24 Ed Reed SS Miami (Fla.) Baltimore Ravens

2003
20 George Foster T Georgia Denver Broncos
21 Jeff Faine C Notre Dame Cleveland Browns
22 Rex Grossman QB Florida Chicago Bears
23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.) Buffalo Bills
24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa Indianapolis Colts
25 William Joseph DT Miami (Fla.) New York Giants
26 Kwame Harris T Stanford San Francisco 49ers
27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State Kansas City Chiefs

2004
17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.) Denver Broncos
18 Will Smith DE Ohio State New Orleans Saints
19 Vernon Carey T Miami (Fla.) Miami Dolphins
20 Kenechi Udeze DE USC Minnesota Vikings
21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.) New England Patriots
22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane Buffalo Bills
23 Marcus Tubbs DT Texas Seattle Seahawks
24 Steven Jackson RB Oregon State St. Louis Rams

As anyone logical can see there were some great talented folks we could have had.. but took stiffs like ashley (Ed Reed), Marcus (surtain, Rolle, Alexander), delta (Julian Peterson, or Alexander), willie (bennett, wayne or Bree's), george (D Clark or Magahee) ,

those are 5 players that we could have had but mikey passed on for those slugs..


Please never play the we always picked in the 20's CARD so therefore there is not talent available..

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 08:04 PM
Good God, JR...compare the list to someone else for once, and quit posting the list of draft choices. We know who they are, we get it already...but until you actually compare it to someone, the argument doesn't hold water.

Especially considering that we had 2 losing seasons under the man.

Simple Jaded
03-27-2009, 08:05 PM
Stop telling me how to post, Jr, I'm no longer amused. Nobody, including you, has been a bigger critic of Shanahan's drafts than I have.......

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 08:14 PM
Good God, JR...compare the list to someone else for once, and quit posting the list of draft choices. We know who they are, we get it already...but until you actually compare it to someone, the argument doesn't hold water.

Especially considering that we had 2 losing seasons under the man.

some do not get it MB they need to be reminded from time to time how we got to the place we are toady.. Especially on D..

Some still think mikey walked on water and could do no wrong.. Still wished he was the guy in charge..

a great offensive coach, sucked at almost everything else.. once the HOF players started to retire he simple did not have the brains/guts/balls you choose, on what to do with the team outside of build the O.. and there a few FUBARs there also.. watts is prime time screw up who wastes a #2 on a one handed WR.. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 08:19 PM
Stop telling me how to post, Jr, I'm no longer amused. Nobody, including you, has been a bigger critic of Shanahan's drafts than I have.......

this is why I posted it.. your first sentence..

Picking in the 20's for most of the last decade is what got Denver in this condition,

way to many folks truly believe that crap.. we had chances on all of those listed but chose very unwisely.. and took almost total busts for most of them..

sorry if you are not amused and I'm not telling you how to post.. simply listing the facts as I see them..

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 08:22 PM
this is why I posted it.. your first sentence..

Picking in the 20's for most of the last decade is what got Denver in this condition,

way to many folks truly believe that crap.. we had chances on all of those listed but chose very unwisely.. and took almost total busts for most of them..

sorry if you are not amused and I'm not telling you how to post.. simply listing the facts as I see them..

JR, this argument is just so flawed. If everyone had the hindsight that you are claiming to have, everyone would have teams of all stars. Tom Brady was passed by every team 5 times. :noidea:

Terrell Davis was passed up by every team 5 times.

So this idea that the Broncos SHOULD have drafted the all stars that went after their pick is just entirely flawed. And it certainly doesn't make Mike Shanahan a failure.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-27-2009, 08:25 PM
Frankly, I'm stoked we drafted Darius Watts. He could have been the next Randy Moss.

Simple Jaded
03-27-2009, 08:33 PM
this is why I posted it.. your first sentence..

Picking in the 20's for most of the last decade is what got Denver in this condition,

way to many folks truly believe that crap.. we had chances on all of those listed but chose very unwisely.. and took almost total busts for most of them..

sorry if you are not amused and I'm not telling you how to post.. simply listing the facts as I see them..

Denver lacked talent for a decade because their incompetent GM had to deal with picking in the late teens and 20's, as far as I'm concerned, Shanahan is batting .1000 with Premium draft choices.

The point of my post remains clear, the talent is better at 12 and this new FO needs all the help it can get.......

EMB6903
03-27-2009, 08:35 PM
Picking in the 20's for most of the last decade is what got Denver in this condition, the two best players they've drafted were taken 11th and 12th, while every single 1st round bust they've had has been in the late teens/early 20's.

I know Shanahan is to blame for those mistakes, that's fair a point, but in less than a month on the job, this Front Office has already shown signs of being even worse at making personnel decisions.

Stockpiling picks in a draft this pathetic makes no sense anyway, imo, this draft sucks so let the Redskins or Saints have those extra Kory Licthenstieger's and Jack Williams'.

If anything, Denver should be packaging picks to move up if they can to get the player they really want.......

stock piling picks is stupid? tell that to the Eagles, Steelers, and New England... very successful franchises who have been doing just that for years.... yes its stupid when you draft players like George Foster, Terry Pierce, Darius Watts, Tim Crowder, Tatum Bell, Jeremy Leseaur, Willie middlebrooks,Paul Tevassi ect.....Blame horrible drafting by our front office... not over picking late.

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 08:38 PM
JR, this argument is just so flawed. If everyone had the hindsight that you are claiming to have, everyone would have teams of all stars. Tom Brady was passed by every team 5 times. :noidea:

Terrell Davis was passed up by every team 5 times.

So this idea that the Broncos SHOULD have drafted the all stars that went after their pick is just entirely flawed. And it certainly doesn't make Mike Shanahan a failure.


come on MB while hind sight is great I think we all know that a certain number of those players were going to be BIG.. lewis, reed, surtain, rolle, Peterson, Alexander just to name a few.. not even to mention those farther down the lists I just took the next five in most cases..

Anyway the we drafted in the 20's is debunked as there is always talent out there and in most years there should be no issue with getting as many as 2-4 eventual starters in the top one hundred players if you do not fall in love with certain guys..

Christ even using Mayock as a draft guru mike could have done better.. maybe even Kiper..:laugh:

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 08:42 PM
come on MB while hind sight is great I think we all know that a certain number of those players were going to be BIG.. lewis, reed, surtain, rolle, Peterson, Alexander just to name a few.. not even to mention those farther down the lists I just took the next five in most cases..

Anyway the we drafted in the 20's is debunked as there is always talent out there and in most years there should be no issue with getting as many as 2-4 eventual starters in the top one hundred players if you do not fall in love with certain guys..

Christ even using Mayock as a draft guru mike could have done better.. maybe even Kiper..:laugh:

No.

No we didn't.

There's a reason they were drafted later than pick 20.

If we knew what we know now about Ed Reed, he'd have been the first pick in the draft.

Assuming that the front office should have drafted every all star picked after their pick is just asking too much, assuming too much. It's not possible. And it's not a good argument, but its an argument used all too often.

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 08:42 PM
Denver lacked talent for a decade because their incompetent GM had to deal with picking in the late teens and 20's, as far as I'm concerned, Shanahan is batting .1000 with Premium draft choices.

The point of my post remains clear, the talent is better at 12 and this new FO needs all the help it can get.......

and just looking at the list I showed that next five picks in each of the round ones..

even blind man could have done better than mikey did..

throwing darts at a board may have been better..

and lets not blame any of this on TED the "GM" we all know mikey made the final decisions..

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 08:43 PM
and just looking at the list I showed that next five picks in each of the round ones..

even blind man could have done better than mikey did..

throwing darts at a board may have been better..

and lets not blame any of this on TED the "GM" we all know mikey made the final decisions..

So, if a blind man could do better than him, how come those teams in front of Denver aren't chalk-full of all stars right now?

Maybe because it's not as easy as you think it is?

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 08:46 PM
No.

No we didn't.

There's a reason they were drafted later than pick 20.

If we knew what we know now about Ed Reed, he'd have been the first pick in the draft.

Assuming that the front office should have drafted every all star picked after their pick is just asking too much, assuming too much. It's not possible. And it's not a good argument, but its an argument used all too often.

if you say so MB I guess I'm wrong for thinking again..

If they could do so good after 2006 why did they fail so badly before then?

I think it was someone finally con viced mikey he was not as smart as he thought he was,, whether that was PAT or Jim Goodman or he fell down and bumped his head.. something (mikey) was wrong with those picks..

My last post here cause we all know I will not be able to prove this logical info to Y'all..

Requiem / The Dagda
03-27-2009, 08:56 PM
While Mike ultimately made the final decision, I still think it is a little erroneous to blame our draft mishaps from the past all on him, JR. There also was a GM and a complete scouting department that Mike relied on to get his information. In multiple interviews, Mike confirmed this stating that he rarely had time to view film of prospects because he was so busy doing his coaching gig. It is easy to place the blame on Mike for all of our poor selections, but it isn't fair.

OTOH: Surprisingly, the Broncos didn't even have Sundquist go to Indianapolis to the Scouting Combine his last two years with the team. I don't know why that was; but either way it was a dumb decision. At any case, I'm glad to see that McDaniels and the Broncos have brought in a myriad of players (29 out of their allocated 30 private visits) to have them personally workout for the team. I think this is great. We know the Broncos did this under Shanahan, but I'm not certain to what extent. Private workouts for prospects were pretty "hush-hush" under his tenure here, and I'm glad to see that is relatively out the window with this New Era.

Hopefully, with additional selections this year and the possibility of acquiring more -- Denver will have another successful draft. I think we're in a solid position to do so.

Simple Jaded
03-27-2009, 09:06 PM
stock piling picks is stupid? tell that to the Eagles, Steelers, and New England... very successful franchises who have been doing just that for years.... yes its stupid when you draft players like George Foster, Terry Pierce, Darius Watts, Tim Crowder, Tatum Bell, Jeremy Leseaur, Willie middlebrooks,Paul Tevassi ect.....Blame horrible drafting by our front office... not over picking late.

For one, this draft sucks.

Two, this Front Office sucks.

This franchise no longer belongs in the same category of those "Very Successful Franchises", it's not Pittsburgh, it's not Philidelphia and it's not New England.......it's New Orleans nearing closer to Oakland with every wrong move they make.

This draft if pivotal, they need a legitimate difference maker, they simply can't afford to stockpile average/below average rookies the way they've stockpiled average/below average free agents. The Broncos can pretend to be Pitt/Phili/NE when they've got the group of core players that those teams have, they can stockpile picks when they have players to build around (Or at least a System to build around), but now is not that time.

If Denver had some core players on defense it'd be different, but they have next to nothing on defense.......they've got Champ Bailey, two nice pieces in Dawkins and Williams, and a bunch of huge question marks. At best they've used free agency to augment core players that they simply do not have, they need to find those core players in the next 2 or 3 drafts.

Btw, I blame the horrible drafting on an incompetent FO that is forced to pick late.......drafting late for over a decade would have an effect on every single team in the league, even the best ones.......

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 09:07 PM
While Mike ultimately made the final decision, I still think it is a little erroneous to blame our draft mishaps from the past all on him, JR. There also was a GM and a complete scouting department that Mike relied on to get his information. In multiple interviews, Mike confirmed this stating that he rarely had time to view film of prospects because he was so busy doing his coaching gig. It is easy to place the blame on Mike for all of our poor selections, but it isn't fair.

OTOH: Surprisingly, the Broncos didn't even have Sundquist go to Indianapolis to the Scouting Combine his last two years with the team. I don't know why that was; but either way it was a dumb decision. At any case, I'm glad to see that McDaniels and the Broncos have brought in a myriad of players (29 out of their allocated 30 private visits) to have them personally workout for the team. I think this is great. We know the Broncos did this under Shanahan, but I'm not certain to what extent. Private workouts for prospects were pretty "hush-hush" under his tenure here, and I'm glad to see that is relatively out the window with this New Era.

Hopefully, with additional selections this year and the possibility of acquiring more -- Denver will have another successful draft. I think we're in a solid position to do so.


good post again.. but let me add.. If mikey was making the decision and I think we all know that to be factually. and after al for busts almost all of them except Mobley price and Wilson who was responsible to get it done? mikey was at fault for whatever reason the the buck stopped on his desk..

we also know that when mikey spoke a name on draft day, almost everyone at the draft desk said who the **** is that.. occasionally Kiper in the earlier days would pull some inane stat or quip about them.

But the consensus was he was crazy to reach for him at (fill in the blank) the choice was..

I'll always remember the day watts was drafted in the second they said this kid should have been available at least into the 4th round..

and after I got to see him play, I liked watts he had guts.. but was 4th round talent at best.. IF at all with ONE HAND..

Simple Jaded
03-27-2009, 09:16 PM
and just looking at the list I showed that next five picks in each of the round ones..

even blind man could have done better than mikey did..

throwing darts at a board may have been better..

and lets not blame any of this on TED the "GM" we all know mikey made the final decisions..

By GM I meant the real GM, not Sundquist.

I can't honestly believe you are I are having this argument, that "Throwing darts" line you used is almost the same as the one I was using in 2003.......

EMB6903
03-27-2009, 09:29 PM
For one, this draft sucks.

Two, this Front Office sucks.

This franchise no longer belongs in the same category of those "Very Successful Franchises", it's not Pittsburgh, it's not Philidelphia and it's not New England.......it's New Orleans nearing closer to Oakland with every wrong move they make.

This draft if pivotal, they need a legitimate difference maker, they simply can't afford to stockpile average/below average rookies the way they've stockpiled average/below average free agents. The Broncos can pretend to be Pitt/Phili/NE when they've got the group of core players that those teams have, they can stockpile picks when they have players to build around (Or at least a System to build around), but now is not that time.

If Denver had some core players on defense it'd be different, but they have next to nothing on defense.......they've got Champ Bailey, two nice pieces in Dawkins and Williams, and a bunch of huge question marks. At best they've used free agency to augment core players that they simply do not have, they need to find those core players in the next 2 or 3 drafts.

Btw, I blame the horrible drafting on an incompetent FO that is forced to pick late.......drafting late for over a decade would have an effect on every single team in the league, even the best ones.......



I dont think this draft sucks, why do you say that?

I think there are quality pass rushers that you can find in the late 1st and 2nd round

Connor Barwin, Larry English, Cody Brown, Clint Sintim, Clay Matthews, and paul Kruger

SOLID 3-4 DE's prospects that I think can drop to the 2nd round/3rd round are jarron Gilbert, Evander Hood and Fili Moala

I dont think there are as many elite prospects in this draft but I would have to disagree saying it sucks...some very solid players that will be drafted in the first 4 rounds

and you gotta give the front office a chance before you say they suck... they havent even really had a chance to fail yet.

DenBronx
03-27-2009, 10:41 PM
mike Shanahan got this team into trouble picking period..

here are the next 5 choices after ours

1996
15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown Denver Broncos
16 Duane Clemons LB California Minnesota Vikings
17 Reggie Brown OLB Texas A&M Detroit Lions
18 Eddie Kennison WR Louisiana State St. Louis Rams
19 Marvin Harrison WR Syracuse Indianapolis Colts
20 Daryl Gardener DT Baylor Miami Dolphins
and at 26
26 Ray Lewis MLB Miami (Fla.) Baltimore Ravens

1997
28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson Denver Broncos
29 Chris Canty DB Kansas State New England Patriots
30 Ross Verba T Iowa Green Bay Packers
1997 - Round 2
31 Rick Terry DT North Carolina New York Jets
32 Nathan Davis DE Indiana Atlanta Falcons
33 Rob Kelly DB Ohio State New Orleans Saints
34 Jamie Sharper OLB Virginia Baltimore Ravens

1998
30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee Denver Broncos
1998 - Round 2
31 Leon Bender -- Washington State Oakland Raiders
32 Jerome Pathon WR Washington Indianapolis Colts
33 Corey Chavous CB Vanderbilt Arizona Cardinals
34 Jacquez Green WR Florida Tampa Bay Buccaneers
35 Tony Parrish FS Washington Chicago Bears
and a little later..
44 Patrick Surtain DB Southern Mississippi Miami Dolphins
46 Samari Rolle CB Florida State Tennessee Oilers
48 Stephen Alexander TE Oklahoma Washington Redskins

1999
31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee Denver Broncos
1999 - Round 2
32 Kevin Johnson WR Syracuse Cleveland Browns
33 Charles Fisher CB West Virginia Cincinnati Bengals
34 Chris Terry T Georgia Carolina Panthers
35 Barry Gardner OLB Northwestern Philadelphia Eagles
36 Mike Peterson OLB Florida Indianapolis Colts
37 Jon Jansen T Michigan Washington Redskins
38 Mike Rucker DE Nebraska Carolina Panthers

2000
15 Deltha O'Neal CB California Denver Broncos
16 Julian Peterson OLB Michigan State San Francisco 49ers
17 Sebastian Janikowski K Florida State Oakland Raiders
18 Chad Pennington QB Marshall New York Jets
19 Shaun Alexander RB Alabama Seattle Seahawks
20 Stockar McDougle T Oklahoma Detroit Lions

2001
24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota Denver Broncos
25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA Philadelphia Eagles
26 Jamar Fletcher DB Wisconsin Miami Dolphins
27 Michael Bennett RB Wisconsin Minnesota Vikings
28 Derrick Gibson DB Florida State Oakland Raiders
29 Ryan Pickett DT Ohio State St. Louis Rams
30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (Fla.) Indianapolis Colts
and
32 Drew Brees QB Purdue San Diego Chargers

2002
19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii Denver Broncos
20 Javon Walker WR Florida State Green Bay Packers
21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado New England Patriots
22 Bryan Thomas DE Alabama-Birmingham New York Jets
23 Napoleon Harris MLB Northwestern Oakland Raiders
24 Ed Reed SS Miami (Fla.) Baltimore Ravens

2003
20 George Foster T Georgia Denver Broncos
21 Jeff Faine C Notre Dame Cleveland Browns
22 Rex Grossman QB Florida Chicago Bears
23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.) Buffalo Bills
24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa Indianapolis Colts
25 William Joseph DT Miami (Fla.) New York Giants
26 Kwame Harris T Stanford San Francisco 49ers
27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State Kansas City Chiefs

2004
17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.) Denver Broncos
18 Will Smith DE Ohio State New Orleans Saints
19 Vernon Carey T Miami (Fla.) Miami Dolphins
20 Kenechi Udeze DE USC Minnesota Vikings
21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.) New England Patriots
22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane Buffalo Bills
23 Marcus Tubbs DT Texas Seattle Seahawks
24 Steven Jackson RB Oregon State St. Louis Rams

As anyone logical can see there were some great talented folks we could have had.. but took stiffs like ashley (Ed Reed), Marcus (surtain, Rolle, Alexander), delta (Julian Peterson, or Alexander), willie (bennett, wayne or Bree's), george (D Clark or Magahee) ,

those are 5 players that we could have had but mikey passed on for those slugs..


Please never play the we always picked in the 20's CARD so therefore there is not talent available..


i see alot of big name RB's going in round 2 over the past 10 years. we might not want to keep passing guys up and taking them in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th rounds.

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 10:42 PM
i see alot of big name RB's going in round 2 over the past 10 years. we might not want to keep passing guys up and taking them in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th rounds.

Since you're a prophet, let me know which players Denver should take this year, since you know all the Pro-Bowl caliber players already and all...

getlynched47
03-27-2009, 10:55 PM
For everyone wanting to get some good insights on who we will pick in the draft in April you might want to tune in this Monday at 6:30 est time. Path to the draft on NFL Network will also be discussing Jay Cutler.

This should be an interesting segment.

those idiots will say we need a QB in the 1st round...

Simple Jaded
03-27-2009, 11:13 PM
I dont think this draft sucks, why do you say that?

I think there are quality pass rushers that you can find in the late 1st and 2nd round

Connor Barwin, Larry English, Cody Brown, Clint Sintim, Clay Matthews, and paul Kruger

SOLID 3-4 DE's prospects that I think can drop to the 2nd round/3rd round are jarron Gilbert, Evander Hood and Fili Moala

I dont think there are as many elite prospects in this draft but I would have to disagree saying it sucks...some very solid players that will be drafted in the first 4 rounds

and you gotta give the front office a chance before you say they suck... they havent even really had a chance to fail yet.

They're working on it, nothings official yet but word has it they're apparently working on making an incredibly stupid move that would ruin a perfect good offense and set this franchise back 3 to 5 years, maybe decade if they're lucky.

A move such as this could really put them on the Incompetent Map, combine that with a completely underwhelming group of free agents and it makes it even more remarkable that they managed to accomplish all this in the span of a month.

As for the draft, for the second year in a row the draft is very weak in the area's the Broncos need help most, last year it was DT, this year it's everywhere on defense, and the positions the Broncos need most are the positions where you are much better off taking your chances with the 12th pick. That's not just me talking PFW is giving some defensive positions a significantly lower grade because they are top heavy and lack depth.

But, that is beside my original point, what the Broncos need most you can't expect to get at 20ish, they'll be lucky if it's there at 12, they need a difference maker.......

EMB6903
03-27-2009, 11:27 PM
What dont the broncos need defensively

and if Brown, Raji, Orakpo (who I do not like) what player is valuable enough to take at 12? Maybin? Maualuga? Tyson Jackson? I dont think they are worth taking at 12... Denver needs a lot defensively... safety, pass rushers, 3-4 de's and a NT...... quality safetys are going to be there for the taking in the 2nd round. and Ive already shown you the DE's and 3-4 olb's that are going to be there in the late 1st early 2nd.

EMB6903
03-27-2009, 11:29 PM
i see alot of big name RB's going in round 2 over the past 10 years. we might not want to keep passing guys up and taking them in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th rounds.

we have had some private work outs with some pretty high profiled RB's.... I wouldnt be surprised if we took one in the 1st 3 rounds... Im praying its Lesean Mccoy.

getlynched47
03-27-2009, 11:30 PM
What dont the broncos need defensively

and if Brown, Raji, Orakpo (who I do not like) what player is valuable enough to take at 12? Maybin? Maualuga? Tyson Jackson? I dont think they are worth taking at 12... Denver needs a lot defensively... safety, pass rushers, 3-4 de's and a NT...... quality safetys are going to be there for the taking in the 2nd round. and Ive already shown you the DE's and 3-4 olb's that are going to be there in the late 1st early 2nd.

My first choice is Raji. I am also not high on Orakpo, but if he's available i bet McD-bag drafts him.

I dont want Maualuga, he has shot his draft stock since the Senior Bowl. I would probably go with Malcolm Jenkins at 12, but my ideal scenary if Raji is gone is to trade down and pick up somebody like Ron Brace or James Laurinaitis.

EMB6903
03-27-2009, 11:40 PM
I just dont see Jenkins falling out of the top 10... but I would love him at 12.

DenBronx
03-30-2009, 02:11 AM
dont forget to tune in tonight everyone. 6:30pm they will talk about the draft, possible trades and then i think at 7pm they are doing some updates on cutler.

should be a good show.

Dean
03-30-2009, 04:08 PM
JR- why didn't you include our most recent drafts?

:confused:

hotcarl
03-30-2009, 04:36 PM
I just dont see Jenkins falling out of the top 10... but I would love him at 12.

he will probably go somewhere between 25-30 actually

EMB6903
03-30-2009, 05:39 PM
he will probably go somewhere between 25-30 actually


There is no way that happens.

EMB6903
03-30-2009, 05:40 PM
Denvers on the clock is on right now if anybody cares...

chazoe60
03-30-2009, 05:46 PM
Denvers on the clock is on right now if anybody cares...

I'm at work so please fill me in when they're done

SmilinAssasSin27
03-30-2009, 06:22 PM
well...

getlynched47
03-30-2009, 07:00 PM
that was wack.

All of this Jay Cutler/ Josh McDipShit bullshit is just starting to get on my last nerve...

If they would've spent more time talking about draft pick options instead of the situation, it would've been much better...

getlynched47
03-30-2009, 07:02 PM
Denvers on the clock is on right now if anybody cares...

that was boogus :lol:

EMB6903
03-30-2009, 07:09 PM
ya I cant wait until the draft... Im getting bored reading about the Mcdaniels/Cutler drama....

26 more days

claymore
03-30-2009, 07:12 PM
I got busy making dinner like a bitch and forgot all about it. I hope they talked of Cutler the whole time. :tsk:

Lonestar
03-30-2009, 08:26 PM
JR- why didn't you include our most recent drafts?

:confused:


I was trying to dispel the notion that link was trying to pull with this post..

Originally Posted by Link
Picking in the 20's for most of the last decade is what got Denver in this condition, the two best players they've drafted were taken 11th and 12th, while every single 1st round bust they've had has been in the late teens/early 20's.


That drafting in the "20's got us into the problems we are in.. and I was trying to show that even drafting were we did there were better players we could have taken in some cases these players are STILL playing from the far back..


We all know that mikeys day one drafting sucked except for a couple LB's which IMHO are about the safest picks you can make.. you can almost always cover up that mistake by having a good DL in front of them if they are really stinkers..

Drafting at 11, 12 and 17 the last few drafts did NOT qualify per see with the 20's number he threw out there..

Hope that makes sense..

Simple Jaded
03-30-2009, 08:31 PM
It's common sense that picking at 12 is better than picking 20ish, that was the point of my post. Picking so high in the draft is the reason the Broncos lacked real difference makers.

You misrepresented what I said for no other reason than to give yourself yet another chance to wipe your ass with Mike Shanahan.......Looks like that Pony needs to learn a new trick.......

Lonestar
03-30-2009, 08:41 PM
It's common sense that picking at 12 is better than picking 20ish, that was the point of my post. Picking so high in the draft is the reason the Broncos lacked real difference makers.

You misrepresented what I said for no other reason than to give yourself yet another chance to wipe your ass with Mike Shanahan.......Looks like that Pony needs to learn a new trick.......

Do you not see the players he passed on for the ass wipes he got..

that was my point many of those Players are still in the league today and would have provided this team with a great nucleus.. but no he fell in love with delta, willie, ashley and marcus all losers.. and they all had quality guys behind them..

When you have ass wipes you use it.. he had no other value as GM..

atwater27
03-30-2009, 09:24 PM
SO Krieg thinks Denver will pick Raji, which I think will be a godsend at 12. And he thinks Mcdaniels ****** up and Jay didn't handle it well. So I pretty much respect his opinion.

DenBronx
03-30-2009, 10:39 PM
SO Krieg thinks Denver will pick Raji, which I think will be a godsend at 12. And he thinks Mcdaniels ****** up and Jay didn't handle it well. So I pretty much respect his opinion.

yeah...he also said the fans are split 60-40 on jay vs mcd. it was a pretty dissapointing segment though. i expected more draft talk and not more gossip. totally killed the show...anyhow if we got raji id be stoked!

WARHORSE
03-31-2009, 05:33 AM
It begins with a Krieger exclusive.......

Its only a columnist........but its someone close to the fire.


When asked who was to blame in McJGate, Krieger had this to offer:

Its a close call , but I would have to say McDaniels mishandled this to start with....and thats the root of the problem.

Obviously any headcoach is entitled to explore any trade possibilities that he wants to explore.......

but when you have a relationship as important as the relationship between a headcoach and a quarterback, you gotta have some communication there........

and you gotta give the guy a heads up, especially when youre in the three team scenarios, where the chances of a leak.....

are pretty good........you know you gotta have a communication with the quarterback that says you may hear something like this.......

heres whats actually goin down. Not only did Josh McDaniels not have that sort of communication with Jay Cutler prior to his talks........

but afterwards, he basically didnt tell him the truth. He basically claimed, that he was just listening to offers and Jay Cutler had information through his agent, that Josh McDaniels had actually initiated,

some of the conversations with the third teams, that would have been required, in the three way deals that were discussed.

So, the lack of honesty in the beginning is the CRUX of the problem........and that was Josh McDaniels.




Well lets hope McMuffin can get that CRUX taken care of soon.......like say......around the middle of April or so...........

underrated29
03-31-2009, 10:13 AM
Very disappointing indeed.

They didnt even discuss what we might do if/when raji is already taken.

Simple Jaded
03-31-2009, 04:58 PM
Do you not see the players he passed on for the ass wipes he got..

that was my point many of those Players are still in the league today and would have provided this team with a great nucleus.. but no he fell in love with delta, willie, ashley and marcus all losers.. and they all had quality guys behind them..

When you have ass wipes you use it.. he had no other value as GM..

Look at it this way, if Shanahan were picking 12th every year, you'd potentially have an even longer list of players that he missed to talk about.......that's my point.......