PDA

View Full Version : What's more beneficial to the team? Manning or Mario, V-Jak, Carr, Bush???



DenBronx
03-08-2012, 01:32 PM
Seriously.


Why get Manning for 20+ mill a year when you could get all of these guys for just a little more?


With Manning you take a risk and maybe 3-4 years IF he stays healthy.


With the other guys they are all still rather young and have all been proven in the NFL with minimal risk involved. We would still have room to resign Bunkley.

Northman
03-08-2012, 01:35 PM
Is that what Manning is asking for?

With that said, Bush is a scrub. Mario is really the only worth on your list to get. In the end Manning has done a hell of a lot more than Mario. While we need premier DE our QB position is still not secure and is also weak. Manning could easily make our offense more potent than it is and even if our defense plays at the same level they did last year we would still be better because of Manning.

MileHighCrew
03-08-2012, 01:38 PM
Considering we have Doom and Von, I would suggest Manning fills a much bigger need.

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 01:39 PM
So you would be satisfied with maybe 3 years? He was due I think 28 mill this year and now the Colts after cutting him will still have 16 mill in dead money. I think with bonuses he will easy get 20 mill. See Brett Favre.

I would have said Finnegan but I think he's going to ask too much.

MOtorboat
03-08-2012, 01:41 PM
I'd rather go after Manning and Connor than the other four.

Of course, I think the only realistic additions are going to be Connor and Carr.

Northman
03-08-2012, 01:42 PM
So you would be satisfied with maybe 3 years? He was due I think 28 mill this year and now the Colts after cutting him will still have 16 mill in dead money. I think with bonuses he will easy get 20 mill. See Brett Favre.

I would have said Finnegan but I think he's going to ask too much.


Well, considering we made the playoffs with the trick and pony show i would say yes. Have solid drafts, fill needs with FA', and if Manning was here and we won another championship while grooming a young QB i say hell yea.

MileHighCrew
03-08-2012, 01:44 PM
If the Broncos add Manning they are going all in. You have to add Wayne to the list them, maybe Mario comes with him too. Whatever team signs Manning is going to be a choice place for FA's. See the Miami Heat.

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 01:45 PM
I'm fine with Manning coming here but I was just curious what some of you thought on going ALL-IN with Manning for the short term vs a long term plan.

If Manning gets us deep into the playoffs each year then this would be hard to argue on looking back. P. Manning is possibly one of the best ever and I don't blame EFX if they go out and get him.

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 01:46 PM
If the Broncos add Manning they are going all in. You have to add Wayne to the list them, maybe Mario comes with him too. Whatever team signs Manning is going to be a choice place for FA's. See the Miami Heat.

Fair point but the money will add up quick and then we will be strapped for cash again. I thought Bowlen was rather cheap or would this make him finally get serious?

underrated29
03-08-2012, 01:47 PM
depends.. Which team?

Pros and cons

Pros- manning will help the team out immensly and possibly give us a shot at the title. He is that good.
He will also mentor Tebow, and do so much more for tebow than practically anyone could have
He will also reduce the role of mike McSuck, thus maybe we can get a real OC when manning leaves
Did I mention how much tebow will be able to learn from him. Those two would make a great pair, with how hard tebow works and film study and all.

Cons-
Cost, years of service to us, broken neck-may not play at all.
Missing out on carr, bush and mario.



If it is any other team. Id say take Super Mario, Carr and Bush. If it is us, take manning.


Manning took a worse colts defense to the big dance, and contention for many years. I think he could easily do that and better with us. Plus, all of the aformentioned tebow benefits he would bring. Which would then, at the end of mannings era here as a starter, bring on the polished, nfl ready tebow, which we all have said if he can throw and get the game down like even middle of the pack, watch out nfl. Then yes, manning please.

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 01:49 PM
Figure instead of Manning we could sign Dan Connor, Finnegan and Carr. We could even which that around and get Nicks in there.

So is a possible depleted Manning worth all of our cap space? I dont think so. If we had a solid team in all aspects of the game except QB then sure, we might get a few SB wins. But not with our team and all the holes. We will just end up being ACF West/Wildcard winner and wont have any money to add missing peaces except drafting and the end of every round. I would rather get some young talent in here and fill some holes. IMO Tebow can have this year to show up or shut up. If he flops we can atleast have holes filled to trade up in draft to get a QB next draft.

If I were Manning I would go to Miami or Jets. Miami has an incredible defense, and have some offensive weapons that Manning could kill iwth (Marshall). Jets also have a great defense and good offensive weapons with a QB who is not panning out too well.

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 01:50 PM
Didnt the Colts run a differant offense than what McCoy did?

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 01:51 PM
Didnt the Colts run a differant offense than what McCoy did?

I think the entire offense will change. We will no longer be a run first team. Completely different offense then what Fox runs.

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 01:53 PM
You would have to think Dawkins would certainly come back for 1 more year if Manning was here.

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 01:56 PM
I think the entire offense will change. We will no longer be a run first team. Completely different offense then what Fox runs.

Then a whole nother year for all of our offense to learn new stuff, which will only set us back until 2013. It's not like we would set the world on fire in 2012. Our #1 rushing attack wouldnt be #1. And are guys like DT even able to run an offense like the Colts ran?

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:01 PM
So is a possible depleted Manning worth all of our cap space? I dont think so. If we had a solid team in all aspects of the game except QB then sure, we might get a few SB wins. But not with our team and all the holes. We will just end up being ACF West/Wildcard winner and wont have any money to add missing peaces except drafting and the end of every round. I would rather get some young talent in here and fill some holes. IMO Tebow can have this year to show up or shut up. If he flops we can atleast have holes filled to trade up in draft to get a QB next draft.

Whats the hurry on Tebow? It certainly would not hurt him to sit another year. As too Manning, he makes the Colts a much better team when he is there. No reason he couldnt make Denver the same.


If I were Manning I would go to Miami or Jets. Miami has an incredible defense, and have some offensive weapons that Manning could kill iwth (Marshall). Jets also have a great defense and good offensive weapons with a QB who is not panning out too well.

Lmao

Miami's defense isnt all that. Outside of Cameron Wake and their DB's its actually pretty average. The one major difference is guess what? Yep, Mike Nolan.

As to the offensive weapons. Marshall is good, but so it Thomas so i have no doubt Manning could make DT THAT much better. Reggie Bush? Nah, i would still take McGahee every day till Tuesday. While Manning would certainly make them better their team overall isnt much better than Denver's and that was evident when we beat them in their own house in just Tebow's 4th game ever. Had Manning played with us in that game we would of torched their asses.

Lancane
03-08-2012, 02:02 PM
DB, I wouldn't be so close minded to call the addition of Manning as a temporary reprieve, while his time in Denver would be short in standard the lasting effects could permeate the foundation of the Broncos for years to come. Not only would we likely win more games then we have for a long, long time but we can groom someone behind Manning as Green Bay did with Rodgers and Farve, free agents will be more apt to come to Denver and likely somewhat cheaper hopes to win now and what they bring will trickle to the younger members of the team in all facets. Imagine how good we could have been had we added better talent in the draft with our 96', 97' and 98' Broncos' squads.

MOtorboat
03-08-2012, 02:03 PM
Players that would most likely not even consider Denver:
Jackson
Bush
Nicks

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 02:03 PM
I think our defense is better than Miami.....but that's just me I guess.

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 02:04 PM
Players that would most likely not even consider Denver:
Jackson
Bush
Nicks

Ha....you think Bush wouldnt want to run in this offense AND get to play the raiders 2x a year?

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 02:06 PM
DB, I wouldn't be so close minded to call the addition of Manning as a temporary reprieve, while his time in Denver would be short in standard the lasting effects could permeate the foundation of the Broncos for years to come. Not only would we likely win more games then we have for a long, long time but we can groom someone behind Manning as Green Bay did with Rodgers and Farve, free agents will be more apt to come to Denver and likely somewhat cheaper hopes to win now and what they bring will trickle to the younger members of the team in all facets. Imagine how good we could have been had we added better talent in the draft with our 96', 97' and 98' Broncos' squads.

Elway should have came back for 1999...would have been a 3-peat.

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 02:06 PM
Whats the hurry on Tebow? It certainly would not hurt him to sit another year. As too Manning, he makes the Colts a much better team when he is there. No reason he couldnt make Denver the same.



Lmao

Miami's defense isnt all that. Outside of Cameron Wake and their DB's its actually pretty average. The one major difference is guess what? Yep, Mike Nolan.

As to the offensive weapons. Marshall is good, but so it Thomas so i have no doubt Manning could make DT THAT much better. Reggie Bush? Nah, i would still take McGahee every day till Tuesday. While Manning would certainly make them better their team overall isnt much better than Denver's and that was evident when we beat them in their own house in just Tebow's 4th game ever. Had Manning played with us in that game we would of torched their asses.

Miami defense is better then ours. #6 in scoring defense, #3 in rushing defense. Marshall is much better then DT right now. Question is how will DT handle a complex passing offense and routes? My hurry is not with Tebow, it is with Manning breaking the bank. Asking for big signing bonus and not wanting and incentive based contract. Him not being back to is original form and getting a reduced Manning for so much. I rather build the team up rather then getting one guy who could strap us for cash for several years. If we had holes filled and a great group of 2-3 yr year players who are starting and playing great then sure. I just think we need to fill several holes then one.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:10 PM
Miami defense is better then ours. #6 in scoring defense, #3 in rushing defense. Marshall is much better then DT right now. Question is how will DT handle a complex passing offense and routes? My hurry is not with Tebow, it is with Manning breaking the bank. Asking for big signing bonus and not wanting and incentive based contract. Him not being back to is original form and getting a reduced Manning for so much. I rather build the team up rather then getting one guy who could strap us for cash for several years. If we had holes filled and a great group of 2-3 yr year players who are starting and playing great then sure. I just think we need to fill several holes then one.


Well so far, i have yet to hear that Manning is asking for a large contract. In fact, ive heard quite the opposite as he seems more interested in looking for another ring. Unfortuantely, while we do have needs so do the Colts but it cant be denied that when Manning was there he made them that much better. I could easily settle for 3 years under Manning while we continue to fill holes via the draft. Manning would instantly make this team a contender. No doubt about it.

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 02:13 PM
Well so far, i have yet to hear that Manning is asking for a large contract. In fact, ive heard quite the opposite as he seems more interested in looking for another ring. Unfortuantely, while we do have needs so do the Colts but it cant be denied that when Manning was there he made them that much better. I could easily settle for 3 years under Manning while we continue to fill holes via the draft. Manning would instantly make this team a contender. No doubt about it.

IF....returns to his original form, aka gets arm strength back, neck motion fully back and all that.

jhildebrand
03-08-2012, 02:15 PM
DB, I wouldn't be so close minded to call the addition of Manning as a temporary reprieve, while his time in Denver would be short in standard the lasting effects could permeate the foundation of the Broncos for years to come. Not only would we likely win more games then we have for a long, long time but we can groom someone behind Manning as Green Bay did with Rodgers and Farve, free agents will be more apt to come to Denver and likely somewhat cheaper hopes to win now and what they bring will trickle to the younger members of the team in all facets. Imagine how good we could have been had we added better talent in the draft with our 96', 97' and 98' Broncos' squads.

I don't know. This franchise's problem was they didn't have an adequate replacement trained and ready to go after Elway. Shanny thought Griese was the answer, and maybe he could have been, but IMO he was thrown in too soon if not the wrong way. Since then it has been a carousel at QB and too many bad checks on FA's ie Gardner, Rice, Maroney, etc... This team is in a good spot in that the bad debt is quickly disappearing and they can focus on getting young and fast.

Bringing Manning in could put us right back in the boat where we were. Too bad Cutler was shipped off. Had that not happened, this team would be sitting really pretty!

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 02:16 PM
Marques Colston I think will come cheaper then V-Jak. Wouldnt mind him either here in Denver.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:16 PM
IF....returns to his original form, aka gets arm strength back, neck motion fully back and all that.

As opposed to "if" Tebow learns how to pass the football better with more consistency? I dont know, i think i would take a proven guy at this point mate.

claymore
03-08-2012, 02:18 PM
Players that would most likely not even consider Denver:
Jackson
Bush
NicksSign Manning and that list evaporates.

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 02:18 PM
As opposed to "if" Tebow learns how to pass the football better with more consistency? I dont know, i think i would take a proven guy at this point mate.

I would take the guy who could be around for 10 years over 2-3 years. Because if he does not pan out this year, you have better team due to draft and FA (using the excess cap on several plays not one) and can move up in draft next year to get a rookie.

claymore
03-08-2012, 02:19 PM
Marques Colston I think will come cheaper then V-Jak. Wouldnt mind him either here in Denver.

If we had Colston and Demarius Thomas, I could here the glass bones breaking all the way down here in El Paso.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:20 PM
I don't know. This franchise's problem was they didn't have an adequate replacement trained and ready to go after Elway. Shanny thought Griese was the answer, and maybe he could have been, but IMO he was thrown in too soon if not the wrong way.

I hear this a lot but have to disagree. Griese had been playing well, especially in his second season in 2000. But after his shoulder injury he was never the same. I call that more of bad luck rather than a mistake at letting him start. Ideally it would of been better to have Bubby start but his loopy ass didnt do anything to solidify a reason to start him.


Bringing Manning in could put us right back in the boat where we were.

I dont see how. If Tebow stays than he learns from an Allpro the way it should be. I see no negative effect there.


Too bad Cutler was shipped off. Had that not happened, this team would be sitting really pretty!

Agreed.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:21 PM
If we had Colston and Demarius Thomas, I could here the glass bones breaking all the way down here in El Paso.

Like the ghost of xmas past... :lol:

That shit was funny man.

jhildebrand
03-08-2012, 02:22 PM
If we had Colston and Demarius Thomas, I could here the glass bones breaking all the way down here in El Paso.

Gina bones? :confused:

:lol:

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:23 PM
I would take the guy who could be around for 10 years over 2-3 years. Because if he does not pan out this year, you have better team due to draft and FA (using the excess cap on several plays not one) and can move up in draft next year to get a rookie.

That makes zero sense man. If you have Manning and Tebow is sitting while your still drafting for the future that would be the better senario that your laying out here right now. With Manning your still a contender while mentoring a young QB whether its Tebow or some other young QB.

MileHighCrew
03-08-2012, 02:23 PM
As opposed to "if" Tebow learns how to pass the football better with more consistency? I dont know, i think i would take a proven guy at this point mate.

i would bet Manning's neck heals faster then Tebow learns how to throw

jhildebrand
03-08-2012, 02:27 PM
I hear this a lot but have to disagree. Griese had been playing well, especially in his second season in 2000. But after his shoulder injury he was never the same. I call that more of bad luck rather than a mistake at letting him start. Ideally it would of been better to have Bubby start but his loopy ass didnt do anything to solidify a reason to start him.

That's my point. Griese went in the wrong way. It probably should have been Brister at least for the first 4 or so games. Griese was close to ready but not completely.




I dont see how. If Tebow stays than he learns from an Allpro the way it should be. I see no negative effect there.

If Manning is here chances are Tebow isn't.

I don't want Manning if it is at a cost that we are selling the future short for what may amount to one decent run at the SB. I would rather have a bad year or two (with Tebow that is a realistic possibility) and build for a long run like the Patriots, Steelers and Packers have. A bad year or two with Tebow could amount to a top 5 pick and the QBOF.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:27 PM
i would bet Manning's neck heals faster then Tebow learns how to throw

Ouch, you went there..... lol

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 02:28 PM
i would bet Manning's neck heals faster then Tebow learns how to throw

Yeah well if anyone could heal Mannings neck it would be Tebow and if anyone could teach Tebow to throw it would be Manning.

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 02:29 PM
That makes zero sense man. If you have Manning and Tebow is sitting while your still drafting for the future that would be the better senario that your laying out here right now. With Manning your still a contender while mentoring a young QB whether its Tebow or some other young QB.

That is IF you keep Tebow.

I would love to sign Manning to a deal that does not break us, keep Tebow and still fill holes in FA. I just fear Manning will break up for several years down the road.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:29 PM
If Manning is here chances are Tebow isn't.

I don't want Manning if it is at a cost that we are selling the future short for what may amount to one decent run at the SB. I would rather have a bad year or two (with Tebow that is a realistic possibility) and build for a long run like the Patriots, Steelers and Packers have.

Tebow doesnt have a big contract despite being a 1st rounder. He gets paid chump change so its not like you have a Brees/Rivers senario to worry about. As too selling the future short the only problem is Tebow isnt like the QB's currently running the Steelers, Pats, or Pack. None of the QB's had the issues that Tebow has coming into the NFL. If we had a QB in the same mold as them i would agree with you. But im not convinced Tebow will ever improve in the areas that he needs too.

MileHighCrew
03-08-2012, 02:31 PM
If he is still on the roster, he could rub Manning's neck between series.

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 02:32 PM
If he is still on the roster, he could rub Manning's neck between series.

Mr Miyagi effect.

jhildebrand
03-08-2012, 02:32 PM
Tebow doesnt have a big contract despite being a 1st rounder. He gets paid chump change so its not like you have a Brees/Rivers senario to worry about. As too selling the future short the only problem is Tebow isnt like the QB's currently running the Steelers, Pats, or Pack. None of the QB's had the issues that Tebow has coming into the NFL. If we had a QB in the same mold as them i would agree with you. But im not convinced Tebow will ever improve in the areas that he needs too.

That is why I said I would see with Tebow ( "he could have a bad year or two"). He could lead us to a top 5 pick. I would rather see a top young QB next year than gamble with Manning. That is what any team is going to do when it comes to Manning. They are gambling a large part of the future on the now in part because he will still command quite a bit! Same happened to the Chiefs with Montana. They really haven't recovered from that.

Also, IIRC, Tebow's contract calls for another 6 mill or so this year.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:35 PM
That is why I said I would see with Tebow. He could lead us to a top 5 pick. I would rather see a top young QB next year than gamble with Manning. That is what any team is going to do when it comes to Manning. They are gambling a large part of the future on the now in part because he will still command quite a bit! Same happened to the Chiefs with Montana. They really haven't recovered from that.

Also, IIRC, Tebow's contract calls for another 6 mill or so this year.

Not really.

If Manning fails than the team he is on will still fail. Unfortuantely, the pro's severely outweigh the con's when it comes to Manning right now.

As too KC, dude. They didnt fail because they signed Montana. They failed because of very poor coaching. lol

MileHighCrew
03-08-2012, 02:35 PM
That is why I said I would see with Tebow ( "he could have a bad year or two"). He could lead us to a top 5 pick. I would rather see a top young QB next year than gamble with Manning. That is what any team is going to do when it comes to Manning. They are gambling a large part of the future on the now in part because he will still command quite a bit! Same happened to the Chiefs with Montana. They really haven't recovered from that.

Also, IIRC, Tebow's contract calls for another 6 mill or so this year.

KC has been bad long enough now that it can no longer be the Montana effect

Dreadnought
03-08-2012, 02:39 PM
The more I think on it, the more I am convinced that signing Peyton Manning would be the single worst personel move in Denver Bronco History. Worse than 2 firsts for Steve Tensi. Worse than the trade up for Alphonso Smith. Worse than Ted Gregory. Worse than trading Jay Cutler. Worse (even) than firing Mike Shanahan and hiring Josh ******* McDaniels.

Why? We aren't a contender, and we have a ton of holes to address before we are - one of which frankly is not QB at this time. The eventual contract will be BIG and it will be GUARANTEED. Peyton and Tom Condon are too sharp a pair of operators to sign anything that doesn't pay him mountains of money whether or not he plays a down...which I very much suspect he never ever will again.

It is such a stupid idea that I think I would want changes made in management were it to happen.

jhildebrand
03-08-2012, 02:43 PM
Not really.

If Manning fails than the team he is on will still fail. Unfortuantely, the pro's severely outweigh the con's when it comes to Manning right now.

As too KC, dude. They didnt fail because they signed Montana. They failed because of very poor coaching. lol

Things aren't done in a vacuum. That montana along with Marcus Allen contracts kept them from being able to pay their own or get the FA's they needed. A coach is only so much. At some point you need the talent.

Finally, Manning failing may be 8-8 or 9-7 as evidenced by what the Colts were last season and this without him. That is a 12-20 pick. What top 2 QB are you picking there? :confused: Nobody!

Tebow, it seems to me, if he fails would be in the area of 3-13, 4-12.

The Pro's outweigh the cons? That all hinges on a neck that has had three surgeries, that we know of, healing and healing well.


KC has been bad long enough now that it can no longer be the Montana effect

Again, look at the Montana and Allen contracts. That hurt them for a long time. I am not saying to this day other than, like Denver, they haven't been able to settle their QB position.

Today's NFL almost requires you draft your QB-GB, NE, PITT, NYG. The only exception would be NO and Brees. The uppercrust of the league drafted theirs. A few have had success without drafting the QB i.e. Houston, Chicago but not near the level of teams that drafted one.

MileHighCrew
03-08-2012, 02:44 PM
The more I think on it, the more I am convinced that signing Peyton Manning would be the single worst personel move in Denver Bronco History. Worse than 2 firsts for Steve Tensi. Worse than the trade up for Alphonso Smith. Worse than Ted Gregory. Worse than trading Jay Cutler. Worse (even) than firing Mike Shanahan and hiring Josh ******* McDaniels.

Why? We aren't a contender, and we have a ton of holes to address before we are - one of which frankly is not QB at this time. The eventual contract will be BIG and it will be GUARANTEED. Peyton and Tom Condon are too sharp a pair of operators to sign anything that doesn't pay him mountains of money whether or not he plays a down...which I very much suspect he never ever will again.

It is such a stupid idea that I think I would want changes made in management were it to happen.


Tell the truth, you already ordered your #18 jersey

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 02:44 PM
The more I think on it, the more I am convinced that signing Peyton Manning would be the single worst personel move in Denver Bronco History. Worse than 2 firsts for Steve Tensi. Worse than the trade up for Alphonso Smith. Worse than Ted Gregory. Worse than trading Jay Cutler. Worse (even) than firing Mike Shanahan and hiring Josh ******* McDaniels.

Why? We aren't a contender, and we have a ton of holes to address before we are - one of which frankly is not QB at this time. The eventual contract will be BIG and it will be GUARANTEED. Peyton and Tom Condon are too sharp a pair of operators to sign anything that doesn't pay him mountains of money whether or not he plays a down...which I very much suspect he never ever will again.

It is such a stupid idea that I think I would want changes made in management were it to happen.



Yeah, that's a scary thought. That him and his agent are out to get guaranteed money only for him to get reinjured game 1 for good. We would be royally screwed.

But then we all know what happened to Drew Brees in NO. If healthy you must consider Manning.....it's a guarantee to go to the playoffs every year.

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 02:45 PM
Tell the truth, you already ordered your #18 jersey

I don't know why it wont let me high 5 you?

It doesnt even give me the option.

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 02:46 PM
Tell the truth, you already ordered your #18 jersey

As long as its a Colts jersey. #18 in the boncos jersey is already retired. It wont be unretired for manning.

jhildebrand
03-08-2012, 02:46 PM
Agreed. We would be selling the future short for a shot now. Then back to square one. This team has too many needs. I hope they just keep plugging away.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:46 PM
The more I think on it, the more I am convinced that signing Peyton Manning would be the single worst personel move in Denver Bronco History. Worse than 2 firsts for Steve Tensi. Worse than the trade up for Alphonso Smith. Worse than Ted Gregory. Worse than trading Jay Cutler. Worse (even) than firing Mike Shanahan and hiring Josh ******* McDaniels.

Why? We aren't a contender, and we have a ton of holes to address before we are - one of which frankly is not QB at this time. T

Totally disagree.

MileHighCrew
03-08-2012, 02:47 PM
Things aren't done in a vacuum. That montana along with Marcus Allen contracts kept them from being able to pay their own or get the FA's they needed. A coach is only so much. At some point you need the talent.

Finally, Manning failing may be 8-8 or 9-7 as evidenced by what the Colts were last season and this without him. That is a 12-20 pick. What top 2 QB are you picking there? :confused: Nobody!

Tebow, it seems to me, if he fails would be in the area of 3-13, 4-12.

The Pro's outweigh the cons? That all hinges on a neck that has had three surgeries, that we know of, healing and healing well.



Again, look at the Montana and Allen contracts. That hurt them for a long time. I am not saying to this day other than, like Denver, they haven't been able to settle their QB position.

Today's NFL almost requires you draft your QB-GB, NE, PITT, NYG. The only exception would be NO and Brees. The uppercrust of the league drafted theirs. A few have had success without drafting the QB i.e. Houston, Chicago but not near the level of teams that drafted one.


1993 Joe Montana (11) / Dave Krieg (5) [2][67][68]
1994 Joe Montana (14) / Steve Bono (2) [2][69][70]
1995 Steve Bono (16) [71]
1996 Steve Bono (13) / Rich Gannon (3) [2][72][73]
1997 Elvis Grbac (10) / Rich Gannon (6) [2][74][75]
1998 Rich Gannon (10) / Elvis Grbac (6) [76]
1999 Elvis Grbac (16) [77]
2000 Elvis Grbac (15) / Warren Moon (1) [2][14][78]
2001 Trent Green (16) [79][80]
2002 Trent Green (16) [81]
2003 Trent Green (16) [82]
2004 Trent Green (16) [83]
2005 Trent Green (16) [84]
2006 Trent Green (8) / Damon Huard (8) [85][86]
2007 Damon Huard (10) / Brodie Croyle (6) [87][88]
2008[e] Tyler Thigpen (11) / Damon Huard (3) / Brodie Croyle (2) [8][12][89]
2009 Matt Cassel (15) / Brodie Croyle (1) [90]
2010 Matt Cassel (15) / Brodie Croyle (1) [91]
2011 Matt Cassel (9) / Tyler Palko (4) / Kyle Orton (2) [92]


If anything they have had a hard time replacing Trent Green.....

Lancane
03-08-2012, 02:49 PM
Agreed. We would be selling the future short for a shot now. Then back to square one. This team has too many needs. I hope they just keep plugging away.

Well, it looks like Denver is in the mix...either way, it does speak volumes outside the possibility. I think John & John are not as upfront about things as some have come to believe, because no way does Manning come here as Tebow's backup.

MileHighCrew
03-08-2012, 02:50 PM
As long as its a Colts jersey. #18 in the boncos jersey is already retired. It wont be unretired for manning.
of course, no disrespect to Frank Tripucka, don't know Manning's Bronco number... yet....

MileHighCrew
03-08-2012, 02:51 PM
Well, it looks like Denver is in the mix...either way, it does speak volumes outside the possibility. I think John & John are not as upfront about things as some have come to believe, because no way does Manning come here as Tebow's backup.

He will win the number #1 spot 3 seconds into training camp.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:52 PM
Things aren't done in a vacuum. That montana along with Marcus Allen contracts kept them from being able to pay their own or get the FA's they needed. A coach is only so much. At some point you need the talent.

Dude, those teams had talent. Sorry, your completely wrong here in this regard. KC was very competitive and certainly a contender back then. Montana, Thomas, Neil Smith, and so on. You cant sell me on this sad idea there was no talent there. It came down to coaching, plain and simple.


Finally, Manning failing may be 8-8 or 9-7 as evidenced by what the Colts were last season and this without him. That is a 12-20 pick. What top 2 QB are you picking there? :confused: Nobody!

Uh, the Colts did not have a .500 record this year. lmao


Tebow, it seems to me, if he fails would be in the area of 3-13, 4-12.

You dont know that for sure. For all we know he could still end up with a .500 team again.

Northman
03-08-2012, 02:54 PM
Agreed. We would be selling the future short for a shot now. Then back to square one. This team has too many needs. I hope they just keep plugging away.

If we are rebuilding, than trade Tebow for picks and start fresh. I dont want to hinge the future of Denver on a project.

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 03:02 PM
If we are rebuilding, than trade Tebow for picks and start fresh. I dont want to hinge the future of Denver on a project.

Trade away the whole team then, since there are a lot of players with 1-2 years of experience that have not been outstanding. Why dont you wait until the end of TC to see progress. His first true off season. And will be his first full TC and will get work.

I remember you posting about how you were full board with tebow. Then you jumped off again. He comes back and plays well you will be back on again. Just because he is not playing balls to wall amazing as a 2nd year does not mean bail on him. that thinking is ridiculous to me, so many BRONCO fans will give a young player 1 season to prove something and drop them without a second thought. When it comes to QB its put up instant or shut up. If manning comes in and is not back to form people and is playing like an old man and bad fans will call EFX idiots and they will lose all trust. That is one big IF. I do not think Manning will be bad, but he will not be his old self. But if he re injures his next neck EFX will look like complete idiots for throwing the farm at manning and costing this franchise a year or two. It is going to come to do risk/reward and size of contract.

Northman
03-08-2012, 03:14 PM
Trade away the whole team then, since there are a lot of players with 1-2 years of experience that have not been outstanding. Why dont you wait until the end of TC to see progress. His first true off season. And will be his first full TC and will get work.

Because i dont see him getting any better. Cant have it both ways, you guys talk about wanting to fill holes and get more talent in but if there's a player who i believe is not going to improve and has hit his ceiling than i say replace that guy. While im sure i could go through the entire roster and find other players i would replace the guy at the top is the one that needs the most work.


I remember you posting about how you were full board with tebow. Then you jumped off again. He comes back and plays well you will be back on again.

And this is complete horseshit and i get sick of explaining shit to you guys. I never jumped off any bandwagon. I said i would support him throughout the year and i did just that. But i also stated (numerous times) that i was going to continue to be objective on him and when he started to play and regress down the stretch of the season i made comments on it. I dont need to lick a guy's nutsack in order to support him. Thats just stupid reasoning and more deflection from you fanboi's. The shit gets severely old. You certainly have NO problem bashing other players on this team yet putting Tebow on this ******* pedestal. Its complete and utter bullshit dude. You cant say "Tebow needs time" and then on the other hand say "so and so sucks and needs to get cut". Thats busch league shit.


Just because he is not playing balls to wall amazing as a 2nd year does not mean bail on him. that thinking is ridiculous to me, so many BRONCO fans will give a young player 1 season to prove something and drop them without a second thought.

Im wouldnt bail on Tebow because he isnt "balls to the wall". I would bail on him because i dont think he can improve. TOTALLY DIFFERENT and a matter of opinion. You want to kiss his ass and think he will be a HOF, knock yourself out. Not everyone sees it that way and if i think we would be better off with a guy who didnt need 10 times the work than im entitled to that opinion.


When it comes to QB its put up instant or shut up.

Incorrect, at least with me. I liked Jay Cutler from day one. Continued to support him for the three years he was in Denver and hope he gets a Championship with the Bears or whoever. I think he's a very good QB and never wavered from that.


If manning comes in and is not back to form people and is playing like an old man and bad fans will call EFX idiots and they will lose all trust. That is one big IF. I do not think Manning will be bad, but he will not be his old self. But if he re injures his next neck EFX will look like complete idiots for throwing the farm at manning and costing this franchise a year or two. It is going to come to do risk/reward and size of contract.

You keep mentioning throwing the farm at him. Where is the proof of this? Just because Dread "thinks" he is looking for a huge contract does not make it so. Manning has money. The dude is already set for life. If Manning fails, he fails. But the knowledge that a guy like Tebow would gain would be tremendous for a guy who needs all the help he can get.

rationalfan
03-08-2012, 03:23 PM
my take: whether it's peyton (a huge if, imo) or tebow, there will be serious questions around the broncos' QB situation. peyton offers less questions.

as for the effect signing peyton would have on the broncos' rebuilding: who cares? seriously. if you can land a top-ten QB you do it. simple as that. rebuilding is redefined with an elite QB. and while i like tebow, he's far from elite at this point in his career.

interesting observation: given the mild rumors about denver being one of the "surprise" teams in the RG3 sweepstakes and the confirmed interested in peyton, two things seem evident:
1. EFX feels this team is closer to contending than most of the people on this board. if they were worried about being a .500 or below team they wouldn't be chasing the QBs so openly.
2. They don't believe Tebow is the man, yet. i'm not suggesting they don't believe him, but it seems rather obvious they don't think he's ready right now to take the team even further. i'm surprised this hasn't had more traction in the national media.

i also expect the team to be very deliberate in the draft, picking players that fit obvious, immediate needs to complement a run at the title.

and while some people are criticizing EFX for sniffing around peyton (and possibly RG3), i love it. a good GM shouldn't ever be happy with a team's talent. think of the chicago bulls in the 90s, they were reigning champions who added better pieces after each title. never be satisfied.

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 03:28 PM
Because i dont see him getting any better. Cant have it both ways, you guys talk about wanting to fill holes and get more talent in but if there's a player who i believe is not going to improve and has hit his ceiling than i say replace that guy. While im sure i could go through the entire roster and find other players i would replace the guy at the top is the one that needs the most work.



And this is complete horseshit and i get sick of explaining shit to you guys. I never jumped off any bandwagon. I said i would support him throughout the year and i did just that. But i also stated (numerous times) that i was going to continue to be objective on him and when he started to play and regress down the stretch of the season i made comments on it. I dont need to lick a guy's nutsack in order to support him. Thats just stupid reasoning and more deflection from you fanboi's. The shit gets severely old. You certainly have NO problem bashing other players on this team yet putting Tebow on this ******* pedestal. Its complete and utter bullshit dude. You cant say "Tebow needs time" and then on the other hand say "so and so sucks and needs to get cut". Thats busch league shit.



Im wouldnt bail on Tebow because he isnt "balls to the wall". I would bail on him because i dont think he can improve. TOTALLY DIFFERENT and a matter of opinion. You want to kiss his ass and think he will be a HOF, knock yourself out. Not everyone sees it that way and if i think we would be better off with a guy who didnt need 10 times the work than im entitled to that opinion.



Incorrect, at least with me. I liked Jay Cutler from day one. Continued to support him for the three years he was in Denver and hope he gets a Championship with the Bears or whoever. I think he's a very good QB and never wavered from that.



You keep mentioning throwing the farm at him. Where is the proof of this? Just because Dread "thinks" he is looking for a huge contract does not make it so. Manning has money. The dude is already set for life. If Manning fails, he fails. But the knowledge that a guy like Tebow would gain would be tremendous for a guy who needs all the help he can get.

Not very often i say a guy needs to get cut. I do say we need upgrades. Funny how I get called a Fanboi when I wont give up on him after his 2nd year in the league. Same as I wont give up on Moore, Irving, Franklin, Squid, Decker, D. Thomas, Carter, J. Thomas, and several other young players. But after their 3rd year they should be at the point of showing what they got. Decker, Tebow, Squid, Vaugn, Walton and Beadles are a few guys I will really watching this year. I think lack of an offseason hurt their growth and impacted their play, more so with the offensive players. I have no problem pulling in more players to push them. But sometimes they are just not cutting it.

you may not be one of the fans who just is not happy unless its #7 back on the field but many are, he set the bar so high that people have blinders to all other QBs. I hated Culter going, thought he was going to be great. Got even more pissed when we got Simms and Orton dueling for starter.

Several times are going to be bidding over manning 12 teams have contacted his agent. He is a top QB in the NFL he will want top dollars and teams will start bidding for him. Some teams who are lacking at QB but good teams could make bigger pushes cause it would mean SB. Not for us, we are too lacking. It has widely been talked Manning does not want an incentive contract and they he was guaranteed.

Northman
03-08-2012, 03:32 PM
Funny how I get called a Fanboi when I wont give up on him after his 2nd year in the league.

Am i wrong? If you swapped out Tebow with Cutler i would not be calling for another QB. Why is that? Because what i saw in Jay i do not see in Tim. Again, its not about giving up just because its his second year in the league. Its because i dont think he can improve.

NightTerror218
03-08-2012, 03:36 PM
Am i wrong? If you swapped out Tebow with Cutler i would not be calling for another QB. Why is that? Because what i saw in Jay i do not see in Tim. Again, its not about giving up just because its his second year in the league. Its because i dont think he can improve.

And I say with lack of working with coaches, and actually working on his fundamentals, I think he can. Elway said footwork and technique are coachable. It comes down to weather he will take it in or not. During the season he gets experience but does not work on his mechanics, that is what the off season is for. But I do think he was working on his mechanics during the season, but most of practice is playbook and preparing for next game. Less one on one time. That is why I put so much into this off season for him. IF he is going to improve it is going to be after this offseason. If he is not improved by preseason then he is not going to improve.

dogfish
03-08-2012, 04:04 PM
i'll take tracy porter, dan connor and benjarvus green-ellis, please. . .

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 08:43 PM
i'll take tracy porter, dan connor and benjarvus green-ellis, please. . .



Cmon man...those guys are barely 2nd tier players. In that case then give me Manning/Wayne.

dogfish
03-08-2012, 10:39 PM
Cmon man...those guys are barely 2nd tier players. In that case then give me Manning/Wayne.

who was i supposed to say, mario williams?

:laugh:

it doesn't matter how many message board posters say it, we aren't paying him ninety million when we've got von doom. . .

i don't think carr's that much better than porter, if at all. . . and i think we'd benefit more from a middle linebacker than a receiver. . . i want good young guys who will fill holes for a number of years-- gimme three-four of those guys and help solidify our core for the next half-decade plus, rather than one or two pricey, aging names. . . i think it's a much more realistic view of how the broncos will actually approach free agency-- and probably the right approach as well, IMO. . .

we'll see. . . i don't see us getting manning or mario, though-- and i just read that tampa's going to go hard after vincent jackson and courtland finnegan. . .

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 10:57 PM
who was i supposed to say, mario williams?

:laugh:

it doesn't matter how many message board posters say it, we aren't paying him ninety million when we've got von doom. . .

i don't think carr's that much better than porter, if at all. . . and i think we'd benefit more from a middle linebacker than a receiver. . . i want good young guys who will fill holes for a number of years-- gimme three-four of those guys and help solidify our core for the next half-decade plus, rather than one or two pricey, aging names. . . i think it's a much more realistic view of how the broncos will actually approach free agency-- and probably the right approach as well, IMO. . .

we'll see. . . i don't see us getting manning or mario, though-- and i just read that tampa's going to go hard after vincent jackson and courtland finnegan. . .

Give me Tulloch, Tolbert, Manningham and Carr....at least just to take him from a KC.

dogfish
03-08-2012, 11:07 PM
Give me Tulloch, Tolbert, Manningham and Carr....at least just to take him from a KC.

i'd be happy with any of those guys. . .

or leron mcclain, or robert meachem. . .

DenBronx
03-08-2012, 11:41 PM
Cecil Lammey thinks we should get McClain from Balt.


Cecil Lammey‏@cecillammey

@DenBronx McClain helped #ravens go 5-0 w/out Ray Lewis this yr, called D audibles, smart, tough, physical, a player on the rise

jhildebrand
03-09-2012, 01:43 PM
Dude, those teams had talent. Sorry, your completely wrong here in this regard. KC was very competitive and certainly a contender back then. Montana, Thomas, Neil Smith, and so on. You cant sell me on this sad idea there was no talent there. It came down to coaching, plain and simple.

Where did I say KC didn't have talent? :confused: I didn't! I did say that the contracts between Montana and Allen burdened the Chiefs and it affected them in the year's following their departure. Try to keep up here, North. I also said KC's problem since the retirement of Montana, is they haven't had a QB since much like Denver.

The year's following Montana they sucked but not purely because of coaching. :lol: They also severely lacked talent. How many wins do you think a coach alone is worth in the NFL? :confused:




Uh, the Colts did not have a .500 record this year. lmao

You keep proving my point :lol:

The 2011 Colts roster and coaching staff were almost identical to the 2010 Colts. The one difference was P Manning. 2011 went 2-14 whereas 2010 went 10-6, hence the 8 wins argument I made. Try reading my posts before firing away on the ol keyboard.




You dont know that for sure. For all we know he could still end up with a .500 team again.

Well all the critics around here seem to know. Unlike the majority who rode (and still do) I take a position. One minute the wins were Tebow's. He did something Cutler and Orton before him couldn't do-win in crunch time and get to the POs. Then it was the D or the running game, or Fox, etc...

Now the idea is Tebow can't throw at all. IF that is the case, which you have posted similar sentiments, then the kid is doomed in a league that REQUIRES and is built for throwing the ball. So which is it? Make up your mind already!

Northman
03-09-2012, 01:46 PM
Give me Tulloch, Tolbert, Manningham and Carr....at least just to take him from a KC.

I would take Tulloch and Manningham from that last. The rest, nah.

jhildebrand
03-09-2012, 01:47 PM
You dont know that for sure. For all we know he could still end up with a .500 team again.


Because i dont see him getting any better. Cant have it both ways...

Talk about having it both ways. Which is it, North? :confused:

:lol:

Northman
03-09-2012, 01:57 PM
Where did I say KC didn't have talent? :confused: I didn't!

Ooops. Post #47


Things aren't done in a vacuum. That montana along with Marcus Allen contracts kept them from being able to pay their own or get the FA's they needed. A coach is only so much. At some point you need the talent.


The year's following Montana they sucked but not purely because of coaching. :lol: They also severely lacked talent.

Derrick Thomas dies, Smith was a FA signed by Denver and Montana retired. Again, i could go through the list of their roster but it wasnt because of the contract from Montana. Your flat out wrong dude. Give it up.


You keep proving my point :lol:

The 2011 Colts roster and coaching staff were almost identical to the 2010 Colts. The one difference was P Manning. 2011 went 2-14 whereas 2010 went 10-6, hence the 8 wins argument I made. Try reading my posts before firing away on the ol keyboard.

Yet you claimed they went .500 without him. Lol, you cant even follow your own posts man. Quit flip flopping.


Well all the critics around here seem to know. Unlike the majority who rode (and still do) I take a position. One minute the wins were Tebow's. He did something Cutler and Orton before him couldn't do-win in crunch time and get to the POs. Then it was the D or the running game, or Fox, etc...

Actually i said it was a team effort. While Tim gets some credit most of his credit is due to his motivational factor. Something that Jay and Kyle dont possess. And while he made a play here or there he was far too inconsistent as a QB. But you would have to be a complete moron to think that the running game and defense didnt play a large part in that.


Now the idea is Tebow can't throw at all. IF that is the case, which you have posted similar sentiments, then the kid is doomed in a league that REQUIRES and is built for throwing the ball. So which is it? Make up your mind already!

Ive made up my mind a long time ago. Dont get pissy with me because you dont know how to read my posts and understand my stance. Thats not fault you cant comprehend what im telling you man. lol

Ive said it all along in moments he can throw very well but again is very inconsistent and needs a lot of work. Do i think he can improve to be a elite passer in this league? Nope. Do i know that as fact. Nope. Just an opinion.

Northman
03-09-2012, 01:58 PM
Talk about having it both ways. Which is it, North? :confused:

:lol:

Uh, going .500 again would not be an improvement. lmao what a ******* dumbass.

Simple Jaded
03-09-2012, 03:21 PM
There is absolutely no logical reason to pick any other player than Manning, none.

Age? He's younger than Elway was when Broncos fans were begging him to keep playing.

Money? Please, l'm sure nobody was whining about what Elway was making during his career and the Broncos have more than enough cap space.

Tebow? Just.......stop.......:rolleyes:. The Broncos could go from the absolute worst QB situation in the league to Top2-3, it's not even debatable.

Tebow fans reaction? If you'd rather have Tim Tebow than Peyton Manning then you represent a faction of the Broncos fanbase that is too ridiculous to take seriously.......

Simple Jaded
03-09-2012, 03:30 PM
Didnt the Colts run a differant offense than what McCoy did?

Um, the Broncos run a different offense than what McCoy did.......

NightTerror218
03-09-2012, 03:31 PM
Um, the Broncos run a different offense than what McCoy did.......

Broncos offense will be completely different the what McCoy ran, and what fox likes to run.

Simple Jaded
03-09-2012, 04:39 PM
Broncos offense will be completely different the what McCoy ran, and what fox likes to run.

You missed my point Tebowfan. DB basically said that McCoy doesn't run Manning's offense, l said that McCoy doesn't even run his own offense. The system in Denver happens to be one of the biggest reasons that Manning would like it here, the Broncos already have an OC willing to wipe his ass with 5 decades of NFL evolution to suit a 3rd string QB, you don't think he'd be willing to bend his system to suit a future HoFer?

Again, Manning or Tebow? Not even debatable. Jessica Alba or Rosie O'Donnell? Ri-F'n-diculous.

Btw, l love how the Suck-for-Luckers were losers but the Tebow argument in this thread is stick with Tebow because it could lead to a high draft pick and a franchise QB if he fails. What's the F'n difference? Apparently Suck-for-the-sake-of-poor-Timmy is ok, even if it means passing on one of the best QB's in the league.......

NightTerror218
03-09-2012, 08:01 PM
You missed my point Tebowfan. DB basically said that McCoy doesn't run Manning's offense, l said that McCoy doesn't even run his own offense. The system in Denver happens to be one of the biggest reasons that Manning would like it here, the Broncos already have an OC willing to wipe his ass with 5 decades of NFL evolution to suit a 3rd string QB, you don't think he'd be willing to bend his system to suit a future HoFer?

Again, Manning or Tebow? Not even debatable. Jessica Alba or Rosie O'Donnell? Ri-F'n-diculous.

Btw, l love how the Suck-for-Luckers were losers but the Tebow argument in this thread is stick with Tebow because it could lead to a high draft pick and a franchise QB if he fails. What's the F'n difference? Apparently Suck-for-the-sake-of-poor-Timmy is ok, even if it means passing on one of the best QB's in the league.......

I like Tebow, so what?

I will take a healthy Manning that wont break our budget over Tebow. I however would like Tebow to ride the pine behind Manning. How did I miss your point? McCoy has not offense, he does what he is told. Fox wanted a run heavy offense and we had one. Fox wants a Manning offense ran by Manning and we will have that. McCoy is a puppet.

I never said Suck-for-Luck, i think that was a ****ed mentality for any fan. As for let Tebow play to lead to a lower draft pick is also lame. I say let Tebow throw in TC and preseason let him show what he has improved. This is his last chance as a Bronco to show he can improve into a competent passer. But riding behind Manning he can learn from the best and then show what he has.

I believe the phrase is No-Shit-Sherlock when comes to Tebow or Manning.

Simple Jaded
03-09-2012, 11:39 PM
I like Tebow, so what?

I will take a healthy Manning that wont break our budget over Tebow. I however would like Tebow to ride the pine behind Manning. How did I miss your point? McCoy has not offense, he does what he is told. Fox wanted a run heavy offense and we had one. Fox wants a Manning offense ran by Manning and we will have that. McCoy is a puppet.

I never said Suck-for-Luck, i think that was a ****ed mentality for any fan. As for let Tebow play to lead to a lower draft pick is also lame. I say let Tebow throw in TC and preseason let him show what he has improved. This is his last chance as a Bronco to show he can improve into a competent passer. But riding behind Manning he can learn from the best and then show what he has.

I believe the phrase is No-Shit-Sherlock when comes to Tebow or Manning.

I wasn't referring to you when l brought up Suck-for-Luck. My point about McCoy is that he is uniquely qualified for the possibility that he could soon be running a system that isn't truly his own.

As for Manning, you don't sign the biggest free agent ever to a contract that won't break "your" budget. No offense but l get the feeling that you don't fully grasp the situation. The Broncos are doing every single thing they can to sign a Hall of Fame QB and all you can think about is "your" budget and what it means to Tim Tebow.......