View Full Version : not news; how about Schaub as Denver's QB?
How do you feel about Schaub?
I know the Texans are high on Schaub's ability, but they might be interested in a similar, but more mobile and durable QB.
How about Schaub and their #1 (15th pick) for Cutler?
As a pocket passer, Schaub is almost even with Cutler. Sure he can't take as many hits, nor create plays with his legs the way Cutler does, but in a McDaniels pocket passing offense with our strong OL, those things can be covered up. He has a knack of getting rid of the ball pretty fast, is pretty accurate, and reads defenses well, all pluses for McDaniels. He's also coming from a background of a former bench player, just like Brady and Cassel. I'm pretty sure he can run McDaniels offense real well, and he isn't likely to force passes as much as Cutler does.
Cutler gives the Texans the mobility and durability they haven't had with Schaub and their weak OL. Cutler is already familiar with Kubiak's offenses, as he ran a similar one his 1st 2 seasons in the league, going more pass heavy in his 3rd season. As high as the Texans are about Schaub, they've had to play Rosenfels more than they wanted to, because of Schaub's injuries.
We also get a 1st round pick we can afford at 15; maybe we can get 2 high impact defensive players from the 1st round of the draft, instead of 1.
DenBronx
03-25-2009, 01:21 AM
dude....you got cutler "the gunslinger" as your sig and you make a thread about trading him for schuab? he almost got beat out by sage.
I like Schaub a lot and definitely wouldn't be opposed to grabbing him if we end up having to trade Cutler. My only concern with him is can he stay healthy?
DenBronx
03-25-2009, 01:25 AM
schuab is alot like cassel.
lanky....both eyes are close together.....both sukdik.....
dude....you got cutler "the gunslinger" as your sig and you make a thread about trading him for schuab? he almost got beat out by sage.
Yeah, I'm definitely a Cutler fan, but Schaub is pretty good. I also want McDaniels to bring our offense (and our team) to the top, but I don't think he really wants Cutler (takes too many risks, superstar, etc), and this lack of trust between them might hurt the team.
It sounds like a good fit. They've traded away Rosenfels for 4th rounder, and acquired Orlovsky. No way do they want Orlovsky to start. :D
schuab is alot like cassel.
lanky....both eyes are close together.....both sukdik.....
I guess if good, efficient QB's not named Cutler suck, then yes, they both suxorz.
schuab is alot like cassel.
Lanky....both eyes are close together.....both sukdik.....
lol :D
dogfish
03-25-2009, 01:33 AM
no thanks. . .
we need a QB that can play 16 games per season, and hopefully 19 sometime soon. . . shaub doesn't fit the bill, and even if he did i don't think he's as good as cutler now, let alone as good as i expect cutty to become with a few more years development and added maturity. . . .
I like Schaub a lot and definitely wouldn't be opposed to grabbing him if we end up having to trade Cutler. My only concern with him is can he stay healthy?
Yeah, me too.
no thanks. . .
we need a QB that can play 16 games per season, and hopefully 19 sometime soon. . . shaub doesn't fit the bill, and even if he did i don't think he's as good as cutler now, let alone as good as i expect cutty to become with a few more years development and added maturity. . . .
While I agree with you, I don't think you need all of Cutler's talent in a McDaniels offense. McDaniels basically wants a pure pocket passer, and a lot of good pocket passers can actually fit the bill (Schaub, Cassel, Quinn, Hasselbeck, Rivers, Brady, Rodgers, either Manning, etc). I think it's the same thinking of Shanahan with his late round or undrafted RBs.
Shazam!
03-25-2009, 01:58 AM
I think Quinn is the only current NFL QB I would personally be able to accept without being an irate madman as the new QB should Cutler be traded.
I think Quinn is the only current NFL QB I would personally be able to accept without being an irate madman as the new QB should Cutler be traded.
Yeah, I think Quinn will prove to be a really good QB. He should easily outshine JaMarcus and all the QBs in his draft class.
dogfish
03-25-2009, 02:24 AM
While I agree with you, I don't think you need all of Cutler's talent in a McDaniels offense. McDaniels basically wants a pure pocket passer, and a lot of good pocket passers can actually fit the bill (Schaub, Cassel, Quinn, Hasselbeck, Rivers, Brady, Rodgers, either Manning, etc). I think it's the same thinking of Shanahan with his late round or undrafted RBs.
i see where you're coming from, but IMO doogie hasn't done nearly enough yet to say that his "system" can succeed with lesser talent-- i'm not saying that that isn't the case, just that i don't buy it yet. . . he had two really good years in new england, but he also had a lot of factors in his favor. . . obviously in '07 he had a first ballot HOF quarterback in his prime throwing to the most physically gifted WR to ever play the game, an extremely productive slot receiver, a veteran O-line, a top five defense to lean on, and a mandate from his coach to go for broke no matter what the time, score, or down and distance. . .
what he did last year with cassel was impressive, but he still had all of those other factors in his favor. . . i want to see what he can do in another situation before i say his system can get quality results with lesser talent. . . of course, our talent on O is pretty damn good (if he doesn't manage to trade off the bulk of it before the start of the season), but let's see how his offense performs when it has to score 30 points per game to compete instead of twenty. . . unless our _efense is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the past few years, i simply don't believe that denver can win with a game manager type of quarterback. . . (not that schaub is necessarily just a game manager-- i'm just responding to your comments). . . .
j3phr3y
03-25-2009, 02:32 AM
I would be happy to trade Cuttler for Schaub. Just as long as they throw in Kubiak as our new HC.
tomjonesrocks
03-25-2009, 02:47 AM
The Houston fan in my office says it sounds fantastic.
:2thumbsdown:
MasterShake
03-25-2009, 03:18 AM
I think Quinn is the only current NFL QB I would personally be able to accept without being an irate madman as the new QB should Cutler be traded.
Yes. Only him and myself would be acceptable. I can throw a 10 yd spiral pretty tight. Anything past that is like a duck.
Me and Brian Griese are like peas in a pod.
LordTrychon
03-25-2009, 03:24 AM
While I agree with you, I don't think you need all of Cutler's talent in a McDaniels offense. McDaniels basically wants a pure pocket passer, and a lot of good pocket passers can actually fit the bill (Schaub, Cassel, Quinn, Hasselbeck, Rivers, Brady, Rodgers, either Manning, etc). I think it's the same thinking of Shanahan with his late round or undrafted RBs.
Yeah, if he could do it all over again... I'm sure Shanahan would have traded TD for a first or something.
;)
dogfish
03-25-2009, 04:54 AM
Yes. Only him and myself would be acceptable. I can throw a 10 yd spiral pretty tight. Anything past that is like a duck.
Me and Brian Griese are like peas in a pod.
i'd place a sizeable bet that you'd make a better pro quarterback than that useless chode brady queen. . . .
our _efense
Perfect way to put it. :salute::D
i'd place a sizeable bet that you'd make a better pro quarterback than that useless chode brady queen. . . .
Hey fish...and others that feel the same way.
What is it about Quinn that you guys don't like? The kid showed a lot of poise and promise when he came in last year. I see a lot of upside to this kid.
If and I am only saying IF JC demands a trade go through, I see Quinn as the only QB that is sort of on the market as being the best option.
As far as Schaub goes. I think he has a lot of upside as well. He is just not a durable QB.
WARHORSE
03-25-2009, 07:11 AM
Schaub rhymes with Q-Tip.
jrelway
03-25-2009, 09:06 AM
what exactly has shaub done so far in his career. NOTHING. just like cassel. i'd rather have brady quinn than these 2 guys.
TXBRONC
03-25-2009, 10:00 AM
Yeah, I'm definitely a Cutler fan, but Schaub is pretty good. I also want McDaniels to bring our offense (and our team) to the top, but I don't think he really wants Cutler (takes too many risks, superstar, etc), and this lack of trust between them might hurt the team.
It sounds like a good fit. They've traded away Rosenfels for 4th rounder, and acquired Orlovsky. No way do they want Orlovsky to start. :D
There have been plenty of quarterback-head coach relationships that weren't exactly great yet the teams they were on together were successful. Elway and Reeves could not stand each other yet they still had success. Bradshaw and Noll didn't get along and they won 4 Super Bowls together. Phil Simms and Bill Parcells didn't have the most cordial of relationships but look what they did.
There have been plenty of quarterback-head coach relationships that weren't exactly great yet the teams they were on together were successful. Elway and Reeves could not stand each other yet they still had success. Bradshaw and Noll didn't get along and they won 4 Super Bowls together. Phil Simms and Bill Parcells didn't have the most cordial of relationships but look what they did.
Good point. We know Reeves was trying to replace Elway, then he got the boot. I wouldn't know if Parcells or Noll were trying to get rid of their QBs, though.
TXBRONC
03-25-2009, 11:15 AM
Good point. We know Reeves was trying to replace Elway, then he got the boot. I wouldn't know if Parcells or Noll were trying to get rid of their QBs, though.
What I do know about Noll and Bradshaw is that Noll benched Terry for a time and even thought that Terry might not be his franchise quarterback.
I don't know if Parcell had ideas of trading Simms but I do know they had huge falling out and I know it had something to do with Jeff Hostetler.
what exactly has shaub done so far in his career. NOTHING. just like cassel. i'd rather have brady quinn than these 2 guys.
LOL. What has Brady Quinn done? Schaub and Cassel have achieved far more than Quinn has.
jrelway
03-25-2009, 01:03 PM
true quinn has done nothing also, but matt shaub hasnt done much but get injured. pretty immobile too.
Lonestar
03-25-2009, 03:47 PM
no thanks. . .
we need a QB that can play 16 games per season, and hopefully 19 sometime soon. . . shaub doesn't fit the bill, and even if he did i don't think he's as good as cutler now, let alone as good as i expect cutty to become with a few more years development and added maturity. . . .
This is the part that scares me the most. there is no doubt he has the tools, but between the ears?
I just see him as another Jeff George, a coach killer wanting to do it his way.. throw the ball deep and hope his WR can out battle the CB for it..
CoachChaz
03-25-2009, 03:52 PM
I like Shaub, but his injuries scare me. Houston has never known what an )-line is, so any QB down there is destined for pain. If he could play a full season, I think he'd do very well...but wouldnt deal Cutler for him unless I got Williams, Johnson and Okoye in return. A ridiculous demand, I know, but he's way too much of a risk.
DenBronx
03-25-2009, 03:53 PM
LOL. What has Brady Quinn done? Schaub and Cassel have achieved far more than Quinn has.
you could actually say cassel has done more than all thre of those guys but to compare a 18-0 team that cassel took over to the team brady quinn had last year isnt fair at all. put quinn on the same team cassel had and im sure the reults would be pretty comparible.
lets see what cassel can do when he is clad in red and white playing for the chefs. when he has a 5-11 season next year i think it will put alot of crowning him a top tier qb to rest.
dogfish
03-26-2009, 02:16 AM
Hey fish...and others that feel the same way.
What is it about Quinn that you guys don't like?
almost missed this. . .
my dislike for him goes all the way back to college. . . i thought he was massively overhyped, and that although he was a very productive college player he just didn't have the skillset or temperament to translate to the pros. . . what i saw when i watched him play was a guy that was in the right place at the right time, a guy that put up big numbers against inferior competition and folded whenever they played somebody legit. . . every time i watched him play he was staring down receivers, and throwing it into double coverage. . . i thought he relied FAR too heavily on his receivers to bale him out-- jeff sarmardjia and maurice stoval were both huge targets, those guys had major physical advantages over a lot of the corners they played. . . IMO quinn far too often just tossed it up for grabs and let those guys out-muscle the DBs. . . i never saw quinn make any plays against legit competition. . .
also, i think he's an utter pretty boy douchebag with a giant opinion of himself. . . when they got rolled by USC he was screaming at the ball boys on the sidelines, and looked like he was ready to break into tears at any moment-- at that point, i decided that no way this guy was gonna make it in the pros. . . i thought he showed his arrogance when he refused to do QB drills at the combine. . . and his holdout was ridiculous! he basically demanded (or let his agent demand for him, technically) to be paid higher than what the 23 spot rated, apparently because high-profile quarterbacks with a lot of hype deserve special privileges. . . :rolleyes:
and then after the dumbass held out far longer than anyone else in that draft class and missing a good month of team activities, he was quoted in local papers as saying that he felt he should be the starter, and didn't see why he shouldn't be. . . if people think cutler is a prima donna and a crybaby, i think they'd be completely dismayed if they got to see quinn's BS act up close. . . there was a rumor late last year that one of his teammates punched him in the lockerroom, which makes me suspect that he's every bit the d-bag in person that he seems in public. . .
i didn't like him as a prospect, i predicted that he'd fall out of the top 15 on draft day, and i wasn't a bit surprised that only a desperate team with highly questionable management would take a chance on him. . . and so far, he's done exactly nothing to prove me wrong. . . hell, he can't even beat out derek anderson!
he doesn't have a special skill set, his arm's nothing special. . . at the very best he might be a successful system quarterback, but i myself don't think he'll ever be that. . . i think he's as soft as soft can be and will fold like a lawnchair if he ever really gets a chance to play-- IMO NFL defenses would just eat this kid alive without even breaking a sweat-- especially if he plays long enough for people to get some film of him. . .
that's why i call him the poor man's joey harrington. . . . :D
Northman
03-26-2009, 09:13 AM
I would go for trading for Schaub if it came to that. He would do well with this Oline. But, im also a homer so there. lol
Northman
03-26-2009, 09:16 AM
true quinn has done nothing also, but matt shaub hasnt done much but get injured. pretty immobile too.
His Oline sucks ass, what do you really expect?
Medford Bronco
03-26-2009, 09:18 AM
dude....you got cutler "the gunslinger" as your sig and you make a thread about trading him for schuab? he almost got beat out by sage.
I do not think :confused:almost get beat out by Sage. He got hurt as usual
and that is his problem, unless I am mistaken (which happens a lot lol)
Medford Bronco
03-26-2009, 09:18 AM
His Oline sucks ass, what do you really expect?
you want to show us a visual of that. lol :lol: jk Northman.
I like Schaub, always have, its injuries that have been his MAJOR problem
not ability
Northman
03-26-2009, 09:20 AM
you want to show us a visual of that. lol :lol: jk Northman.
I like Schaub, always have, its injuries that have been his MAJOR problem
not ability
Absolutely, his injury bug is a concern. But when healthy the guy can play and considering that Jay barely got touched last year i think Schaub would be ok here. :salute:
Medford Bronco
03-26-2009, 09:21 AM
no thanks. . .
we need a QB that can play 16 games per season, and hopefully 19 sometime soon. . . shaub doesn't fit the bill, and even if he did i don't think he's as good as cutler now, let alone as good as i expect cutty to become with a few more years development and added maturity. . . .
You mean you think Cutler will stop being Jeff George as he is right now.
I hope you are right Dog. We shall see.
Agree to disagree and be civil about it. (Wow what a novel concept that is lol)
TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 09:41 AM
You mean you think Cutler will stop being Jeff George as he is right now.
I hope you are right Dog. We shall see.
Agree to disagree and be civil about it. (Wow what a novel concept that is lol)
You know that's not what Dog means.
I've been around long enough to know what George was like. He not only couldn't get along with his coaches he also couldn't get along with his teammates.
CoachChaz
03-26-2009, 09:42 AM
You know that's not what Dog means.
I've been around long enough to know what George was like. He not only couldn't get along with his coaches he also couldn't get along with his teammates.
He didnt even like himself
almost missed this. . .
Thanks for coming back to my question. :salute: I can see exactly where you are coming from. I didn't watch him at all in college and didn't know the little tid bits that you shared.
I just saw a very poised and sure QB last year when he stepped in. And I realized that maybe he would be great in a system where he would have the talent we have on the oline and on the recieving end.
Still, I wouldn't go with a Schaub - Cutler straight up trade. :tsk:
Northman...dude..that Avi is hot!
just sayin......
weazel
03-26-2009, 10:15 AM
dude....you got cutler "the gunslinger" as your sig and you make a thread about trading him for schuab? he almost got beat out by sage.
maybe he wants a guy who actually would want to play for the Broncos...
maybe he wants a guy who actually would want to play for the Broncos...
Cutler likes playing for the Broncos; he doesn't trust McDaniels. Like TD, Sharpe, and Al, etc., have all been saying, trust is important in the coach-QB relationship. Sharpe doesn't believe it can work out long term; I tend to agree.
I figure McDaniels and Cutler can start fresh on different teams, where the trust has not been broken. I have high regard for Cutler, higher than Schaub, but this can fix the situation, and we get a 15th in the deal, who we can use on another high-impact defender. Schaub's a pretty good QB, and Cutler goes to another team that I root for because of Kubiak. :cheers:
TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 10:34 AM
Cutler likes playing for the Broncos; he doesn't trust McDaniels. Like TD, Sharpe, and Al, etc., have all been saying, trust is important in the coach-QB relationship. Sharpe doesn't believe it can work out long term; I tend to agree.
I figure McDaniels and Cutler can start fresh on different teams, where the trust has not been broken. I have high regard for Cutler, higher than Schaub, but this can fix the situation, and we get a 15th in the deal, who we can use on another high-impact defender. Schaub's a pretty good QB, and Cutler goes to another team that I root for because of Kubiak. :cheers:
This is a possible option but I think at this point it's still a last resort.
weazel
03-26-2009, 10:38 AM
just noticed northman's avatar, I'll be back in a few minutes...
This is a possible option but I think at this point it's still a last resort.
I guess the problem is, we're not NE fans, so we don't really know much about McDaniels. By the moves he's made, it seems to me that he has an unshakeable belief in his offensive system, as well as Bellichick's way of running a team. It seems like he chooses system players over talent. That's not necessarily a bad thing; it has it's advantages and pitfalls.
I think he'd rather have a player who fits his system, than adapt his system to the talents of the players. That's probably why he wanted Cassel over Cutler, the 3 RBs he got over Hillis (who's supposedly on the block) and Pittman, why he put precedence on signing Gaffney over extending Stokley and possibly trading Scheffler, and maybe even taking his former long snapper Paxton over the very solid Leach.
(added) In a recent article, he talks about how he wants both lines to get bigger. Though Wiegmann has had a great, probowl season, McDaniels will probably replace him when he can to get the prototypical big O-line player he wants. The strengths of Wiegmann, like Nalen, don't have much to do with his actual physical dimensions.
Shanahan has always been the type of coach (at least on offense) to fully utilize the strengths of the players he has, and adjusted the offense to fit. McDaniels seems to want players who fit his system, so why not just let him have that if that's the way he knows how to coach.
It should be noted, though, that the Pats in 2006 had no high-profile talents at WR, and that seemed to work out well, until they hit the playoffs. From then on, Bellichick's thinking adjusted and he decided to get a superstar instead of a system player in Randy Moss, who was earlier perceived to have weak route running skills. Also, Moss wasn't a team player in Oakland, and that goes against everything Bellichick preached. In Moss, Bellichick chose player talent over system, and it worked out pretty well ... as long as Moss is kept happy. :D
TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 11:51 AM
I guess the problem is, we're not NE fans, so we don't really know much about McDaniels. By the moves he's made, it seems to me that he has an unshakeable belief in his offensive system, as well as Bellichick's way of running a team. It seems like he chooses system players over talent. That's not necessarily a bad thing; it has it's advantages and pitfalls.
I think he'd rather have a player who fits his system, than adapt his system to the talents of the players. That's probably why he wanted Cassel over Cutler, the 3 RBs he got over Hillis (who's supposedly on the block) and Pittman, why he put precedence on signing Gaffney over extending Stokley and possibly trading Scheffler, and maybe even taking his former long snapper Paxton over the very solid Leach.
(added) In a recent article, he talks about how he wants both lines to get bigger. Though Wiegmann has had a great, probowl season, McDaniels will probably replace him when he can to get the prototypical big O-line player he wants. The strengths of Wiegmann, like Nalen, don't have much to do with his actual physical dimensions.
Shanahan has always been the type of coach (at least on offense) to fully utilize the strengths of the players he has, and adjusted the offense to fit. McDaniels seems to want players who fit his system, so why not just let him have that if that's the way he knows how to coach.
It should be noted, though, that the Pats in 2006 had no high-profile talents at WR, and that seemed to work out well, until they hit the playoffs. From then on, Bellichick's thinking adjusted and he decided to get a superstar instead of a system player in Randy Moss, who was earlier perceived to have weak route running skills. Also, Moss wasn't a team player in Oakland, and that goes against everything Bellichick preached. In Moss, Bellichick chose player talent over system, and it worked out pretty well ... as long as Moss is kept happy. :D
We as fans don't have any control what McDaniels and front office and I agree he should have the players that he thinks best fit his system its my opinion that he would be making a mistake getting rid Cutler for system quarterback like Cassel. That being said there isn't a quarterback available that knows McDaniels system first hand which means who ever is the starting quarterback has to learn the system from scratch.
It interesting that McDaniels would want bigger offensive linemen because if I'm not mistaken our starting offensive line is comparable in size to that of New England's.
Gamechanger
03-26-2009, 11:57 AM
you guys want Schaub? :pound:
Northman
03-26-2009, 12:02 PM
you guys want Schaub? :pound:
Schaub > PayMeATon :D
We as fans don't have any control what McDaniels and front office and I agree he should have the players that he thinks best fit his system its my opinion that he would be making a mistake getting rid Cutler for system quarterback like Cassel. That being said there isn't a quarterback available that knows McDaniels system first hand which means who ever is the starting quarterback has to learn the system from scratch.
It interesting that McDaniels would want bigger offensive linemen because if I'm not mistaken our starting offensive line is comparable in size to that of New England's.
I agree with you. And by system, I don't only mean skills fit, but attitude fit. I think he wants certain personality types for the team. I don't even think a younger Elway, like the one in the story posted on these boards, would fit his system either.
I like our OL as is, and I'd be happy to have as many seasons as Wiegmann's (and Hamilton's) able to churn out before replacing him. With McDaniels' statement, though, I wouldn't be surprised if he replaced both of them, and maybe even Harris, if he can find bigger players. He already mentioned he wants to run more gap; he could be moving towards scrapping the zone blocking. He also stresses the importance of a big line that can prevent the pocket from collapsing into the QB. That tells me he puts more value in bulk over athleticism, for the advantages in pass protection.
TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 12:07 PM
you guys want Schaub? :pound:
No I don't want Schaub over Cutler but if McDaniels were to trade him Omac thinks this is the next best opition. In my opinioin it distant second option.
Gamechanger
03-26-2009, 12:11 PM
Schaub > PayMeATon :D
PayMeATon > Glass Schaub & CutTheCryingler
No I don't want Schaub over Cutler but if McDaniels were to trade him Omac thinks this is the next best opition. In my opinioin it distant second option.
The other thing this has going for it is the relationship of Pat and Kubes.
dogfish
03-26-2009, 01:12 PM
you guys want Schaub? :pound:
no. . . . .
OrangeHoof
03-26-2009, 10:24 PM
Don't forget who the offensive coordinator is in Houston...Shanny's son.
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