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Denver Native (Carol)
03-23-2009, 07:15 PM
http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/nfl.broncos.cutler.2.965992.html

Jay Cutler doesn't know if he'll be the Broncos quarterback in 2009, but as long as he is, he plans to show up at Dove Valley when it becomes mandatory.

I was able to communicate with Cutler Monday afternoon. He indicated to me that he still plans to be in Denver for the Broncos mini-camp in April. That's the earliest he's required to report without being in violation of his contract. So far, Cutler has skipped the Broncos voluntary workouts that began a week ago Monday.

Cutler also let me know that he saw parts of Josh McDaniels' interview with the NFL Network on Monday. In that interview, McDaniels stated several times that Cutler is his quarterback and he hopes to keep the lines of communication open to resolve their differences. When asked if he thought the situation was reparable, McDaniels said yes.

Cutler had no comment on McDaniels' interview.

Italianmobstr7
03-23-2009, 07:35 PM
Got a text on this earlier. Glad to hear it. Hope Cutler will talk to him and get this resolved sooner than the mandatory camp anyways though.

DenBronx
03-23-2009, 07:40 PM
when does it become mandatory?

LoyalSoldier
03-23-2009, 07:48 PM
when does it become mandatory?

Usually after the draft. I haven't check this years dates, but I remember in the past we have the rookies show up first and then the veterans are required to show up about a week later.

tubby
03-23-2009, 07:49 PM
when does it become mandatory?

April 17

LoyalSoldier
03-23-2009, 07:50 PM
April 17

What he said.

fcspikeit
03-23-2009, 08:12 PM
http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/nfl.broncos.cutler.2.965992.html

Jay Cutler doesn't know if he'll be the Broncos quarterback in 2009, but as long as he is, he plans to show up at Dove Valley when it becomes mandatory.

I was able to communicate with Cutler Monday afternoon. He indicated to me that he still plans to be in Denver for the Broncos mini-camp in April. That's the earliest he's required to report without being in violation of his contract. So far, Cutler has skipped the Broncos voluntary workouts that began a week ago Monday.

Cutler also let me know that he saw parts of Josh McDaniels' interview with the NFL Network on Monday. In that interview, McDaniels stated several times that Cutler is his quarterback and he hopes to keep the lines of communication open to resolve their differences. When asked if he thought the situation was reparable, McDaniels said yes.

Cutler had no comment on McDaniels' interview.

So the Broncos got their answer once again. He will play! Great news right? That is after all what they wanted to hear right?

So why is there still a real possibility he could be traded :confused:

honz
03-23-2009, 08:15 PM
So the Broncos got their answer once again. He will play! Great news right? That is after all what they wanted to hear right?

So why is there still a real possibility he could be traded :confused:

Because he demanded a trade and won't talk to the Broncos at the moment?

JONtheBRONCO
03-23-2009, 08:41 PM
So McDaniels has made it clear... again... Anddd, Cutler still won't comment on the situation. Get real.

MOtorboat
03-23-2009, 08:49 PM
So the Broncos got their answer once again. He will play! Great news right? That is after all what they wanted to hear right?

So why is there still a real possibility he could be traded :confused:

:tsk:

Lonestar
03-23-2009, 09:00 PM
offer him a huge contract ans he'll be here tomorrow morning folks.. hide and watch this agent game..

Personally he works and has great attitude this coming year or no new contract..


Any new contract is loaded with incentives IMHO.. the better he players to Coaches standards the more he makes..

if he is only Glory seeking opposed to playing for the teams glory, then he can move along..

omac
03-23-2009, 09:01 PM
So McDaniels has made it clear... again... Anddd, Cutler still won't comment on the situation. Get real.

McDaniels was caught in a lie; his words don't have weight.

MOtorboat
03-23-2009, 09:03 PM
McDaniels was caught in a lie; his words don't have weight.

What lie?

He fielded a trade offer and he said no.

This idea that he's deceiving Cutler is just utterly ridiculous. And its all fueled by Bus Cook and the over-reaction and pettiness of Cutler.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-23-2009, 09:04 PM
So McDaniels has made it clear... again... Anddd, Cutler still won't comment on the situation. Get real.

I would imagine any agent would tell their client to not speak on something like this in public. Also, it is posted by Woody Paige on the denver post site, that McD would not even speak to the denver post - just the NFL network!!!!!!

MOtorboat
03-23-2009, 09:05 PM
I would imagine any agent would tell their client to not speak on something like this in public.

What?

Seriously?

I think he's done enough talking.

omac
03-23-2009, 09:11 PM
What lie?

He fielded a trade offer and he said no.

This idea that he's deceiving Cutler is just utterly ridiculous. And its all fueled by Bus Cook and the over-reaction and pettiness of Cutler.

It's not utterly ridiculous at all. Check out the video with the 3 commentators, with Terell Davis included, there where they don't buy it that McDaniels did not initiate the trade talks to get his boy Cassel. They find the opposite version, where McDaniels was just fielding trade offers for a franchise QB who supposedly isn't up for trade ridiculous.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-23-2009, 09:13 PM
What?

Seriously?

I think he's done enough talking.

My comment was in regards to Cutler not commenting on McD's interview with NFL Network today.

MOtorboat
03-23-2009, 09:13 PM
It's not utterly ridiculous at all. Check out the video with the 3 commentators, with Terell Davis included, there where they don't buy it that McDaniels did not initiate the trade talks to get his boy Cassel. They find the opposite version, where McDaniels was just fielding trade offers for a franchise QB who supposedly isn't up for trade ridiculous.

I prefer to check out the video and quotes from McDaniels. Thanks.

MOtorboat
03-23-2009, 09:13 PM
My comment was in regards to Cutler not commenting on McD's interview with NFL Network today.

And my comment was simply saying that Jay Cutler has done enough talking.

omac
03-26-2009, 11:49 AM
I prefer to check out the video and quotes from McDaniels. Thanks.

Actually, I was just responding to your post about it being utterly ridiculous; other people who are involved in football don't think so.

You can take McDaniels' quotes, as you believe, based purely on his word, that he's telling the truth. Listening to commentary from people in the industry (through the NFL and ESPN videos), as well as the way he answers questions, I have doubts, and it's not ridiculous to have them.

TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 11:54 AM
What he said.

I know this off topic but I was reading Woody Paige's Mailbag and guy from Pullman, WA sent in a question was that you?

WARHORSE
03-26-2009, 02:50 PM
Josh McDaniels thinks having Cassell over Cutler is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade.



That alone tells me why this is an issue.

For the coach who is continuously looking to improve his team where he can................and Cassell was an area according to him that this could significantly upgrade the team........cause he coached the player.................but he didnt initiate any trades...........teams just started calling Denver out of the blue to see if we would trade Cutler...........and he merely listened to their ideas..............but we have Jay Cutler...................so why would we want to trade him..................nothing ever happened that crossed Pats desk............but we offered New England a first rounder..............but Cutler is our quarterback..................hes our quarterback.............we are committed to him as long as hes committed to us..................but hes our quarterback(Cheshire Cat Smile)...................but we cant predict the future...............who knows if someone offers us something that might improve our team for him......................we cant say we wont trade him............but hes our quarterback(CCS)..................we're committed to him as long as he shows himself to be committed to us................but we cant predict the future................


Pull your head out and stop speaking in circles.


McSpinhislies.

Lonestar
03-26-2009, 02:54 PM
And my comment was simply saying that Jay Cutler has done enough talking.

but not to the folks his boss and owner.. he needs to talk with unless there has been break through in the last 10 hours I'm unaware of..

Lonestar
03-26-2009, 02:57 PM
Josh McDaniels thinks having Cassell over Cutler is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade.



That alone tells me why this is an issue.

For the coach who is continuously looking to improve his team where he can................and Cassell was an area according to him that this could significantly upgrade the team........cause he coached the player.................but he didnt initiate any trades...........teams just started calling Denver out of the blue to see if we would trade Cutler...........and he merely listened to their ideas..............but we have Jay Cutler...................so why would we want to trade him..................nothing ever happened that crossed Pats desk............but we offered New England a first rounder..............but Cutler is our quarterback..................hes our quarterback............. we are committed to him as long as hes committed to us. .................but hes our quarterback(Cheshire Cat Smile)...................but we cant predict the future...............who knows if someone offers us something that might improve our team for him......................we cant say we wont trade him............but hes our quarterback(CCS)..................we're committed to him as long as he shows himself to be committed to us................but we cant predict the future................


Pull your head out and stop speaking in circles.


McSpinhislies.

I guess you glossed over that tid bit while typing..

Y'all forget it is a two way street..

BroncoWave
03-26-2009, 03:03 PM
Josh McDaniels thinks having Cassell over Cutler is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade.


War, I have a lot of respect for you but you just completely made that up. Where has McDaniels even HINTED that he thinks Cassel is significantly better than Cutler. Just because he considered a trade that would have sent over Cassel and some very good draft picks doesn't mean he thinks that Cassel is "significantly" better than Cutler. That's just a load of bull and you know it.

Lonestar
03-26-2009, 03:12 PM
War, I have a lot of respect for you but you just completely made that up. Where has McDaniels even HINTED that he thinks Cassel is significantly better than Cutler. Just because he considered a trade that would have sent over Cassel and some very good draft picks doesn't mean he thinks that Cassel is "significantly" better than Cutler. That's just a load of bull and you know it.


I think Cassell would have been better in this system than rocket armed jay this year and perhaps the next few until he learns and totally understands it..

While jay may be a better physical player just having the tools and not being able to use them is an issue..

Both Brady and Cassell are not to jays levels but they have managed to have a great almost decade in the system..

as I have said you do not need a Ferrari when a Corvette or GT Mustang will do.. it is pretty and you pay through the nose for it but the speed limit is still 70..

Please anyone tell me why Jay would be better at QB than Cassell would be..

Benetto
03-26-2009, 03:15 PM
I think Cassell would have been better in this system than rocket armed jay this year and perhaps the next few until he learns and totally understands it..

While jay may be a better physical player just having the tools and not being able to use them is an issue..

Both Brady and Cassell are not to jays levels but they have managed to have a great almost decade in the system..

as I have said you do not need a Ferrari when a Corvette or GT Mustang will do.. it is pretty and you pay through the nose for it but the speed limit is still 70..

Please anyone tell me why Jay would be better at QB than Cassell would be..

repour (sp?)with receivers, Throwing on the move rather than staying in the pocket like Brady/Cassell...More game experience than cassell.

Benetto
03-26-2009, 03:16 PM
I think its spelled "Report"...correct me if im wrong.

underrated29
03-26-2009, 03:21 PM
I think Cassell would have been better in this system than rocket armed jay this year and perhaps the next few until he learns and totally understands it..

While jay may be a better physical player just having the tools and not being able to use them is an issue..

Both Brady and Cassell are not to jays levels but they have managed to have a great almost decade in the system..

as I have said you do not need a Ferrari when a Corvette or GT Mustang will do.. it is pretty and you pay through the nose for it but the speed limit is still 70..

Please anyone tell me why Jay would be better at QB than Cassell would be.

.





What in the world are you talking about JR??


Is Mdc system soo hard to understand that only poeple with a 500 IQ or standford grads can run it????

Jay needs to know the routes of his WR, and the snap count and who is lining up where. I do not think that is hard for him to do. Thats what ANY QB MUST DO.....

The rest is all football stuff he knows. Mcd system is not any different for reading defenses, or knowing what D the player is in, or where the pressure is ccoming from. Thats all on the QB ahead of time...

The only new thing to Jay is just the routes, who is lining up where, and the snap count and hot reads. IF you are telling me that Jay can not do those things then you must think Jay is dumber than a bag of hammers.

And if you think that cassel would be better because he knows the routes and everything then thats crazy too.

And who says Jay cant use his tools. Is there someone somehwere that has already said "oh wait, Jay you are rocket arm, but your tools are useless in this sytem because i have forseen it"

fcspikeit
03-26-2009, 03:31 PM
War, I have a lot of respect for you but you just completely made that up. Where has McDaniels even HINTED that he thinks Cassel is significantly better than Cutler. Just because he considered a trade that would have sent over Cassel and some very good draft picks doesn't mean he thinks that Cassel is "significantly" better than Cutler. That's just a load of bull and you know it.

No he didn't make it up, McDaniels was quoted saying that..


Here is the thread about it http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35869

Here is the actual article.. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2009/03/25/wild_ride_for_bronco/

fcspikeit
03-26-2009, 03:44 PM
Josh McDaniels thinks having Cassell over Cutler is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade.



That alone tells me why this is an issue.

For the coach who is continuously looking to improve his team where he can................and Cassell was an area according to him that this could significantly upgrade the team........cause he coached the player.................but he didnt initiate any trades...........teams just started calling Denver out of the blue to see if we would trade Cutler...........and he merely listened to their ideas..............but we have Jay Cutler...................so why would we want to trade him..................nothing ever happened that crossed Pats desk............but we offered New England a first rounder..............but Cutler is our quarterback..................hes our quarterback.............we are committed to him as long as hes committed to us..................but hes our quarterback(Cheshire Cat Smile)...................but we cant predict the future...............who knows if someone offers us something that might improve our team for him......................we cant say we wont trade him............but hes our quarterback(CCS)..................we're committed to him as long as he shows himself to be committed to us................but we cant predict the future................


Pull your head out and stop speaking in circles.


McSpinhislies.

Your right, he does speak in circles.. It's hard to say he lied because he doesn't speak in absolutes. regardless what happens with him and Cutler, he could still trade him, then say he thought it would improve the team.. You wouldn't be able to say he lied because to this day he hasn't said "we are not going to trade Cutler"..

He did say, "we are not trading Cutler" That only means, at this time he is not being traded.. It has to mean that or he wouldn't be able to say he will look into any potential trades to see if it improves the team.. That is the only thing he has been consistent on throughout all this. If he didn't do that then we could say he was lying..:D

Lonestar
03-26-2009, 03:57 PM
repour (sp?)with receivers, Throwing on the move rather than staying in the pocket like Brady/Cassell...More game experience than cassell.


some valid thoughts

lets talk about them..

Marshall well he may not be here next year same goes for Scheffler..

that leaves Eddie, graham, and well no one else..

gaffney that experience goes to Cassell..

Perhaps throwing on the move is valid but if jay does not have the system down like Cassell that may not be a huge advantage..

game experience no Cassell knows how to read the defenses something that jay is not quite there yet especially in the new scheme.. what to do if this happens.. etc..

while jay may have overall game time does he really know the scheme and what to do better?

I think I can really understand why Josh would like to have a guy that took his team to 11-5 last year in a tough division on his team.. I'm not sure why Y'all can't..

I would miss the big arm, but that is about all..

BroncoWave
03-26-2009, 03:57 PM
No he didn't make it up, McDaniels was quoted saying that..


Here is the thread about it http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35869

Here is the actual article.. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2009/03/25/wild_ride_for_bronco/

And improving the team significantly could mean adding Cassel PLUS getting a couple of high draft picks. He never explicitly states that Cutler for Cassel straight up would significantly improve the Broncos and it's a lie to say that he has. Besides, right under the quote in question, he says "I can't speak for him. I just know that's one of the reasons why we never came up with the scenario. It just didn't make any sense. We had a good player. We had Jay Cutler." Seems to me by that quote that he doesn't think Cassel would have significantly improved the team.

Lonestar
03-26-2009, 04:00 PM
Your right, he does speak in circles.. It's hard to say he lied because he doesn't speak in absolutes. regardless what happens with him and Cutler, he could still trade him, then say he thought it would improve the team.. You wouldn't be able to say he lied because to this day he hasn't said "we are not going to trade Cutler"..

He did say, "we are not trading Cutler" That only means, at this time he is not being traded.. It has to mean that or he wouldn't be able to say he will look into any potential trades to see if it improves the team.. That is the only thing he has been consistent on throughout all this. If he didn't do that then we could say he was lying..:D


from day one of this he has said Jay was his QB and IF a deal they could not pass on to make the TEAM better they would pull the card to do so..

I do not understand why Y'all can't deal with it..

I'd guess that even mikey would have listened to a two firsts and a good to great young QB for Jay..

At least I would have wanted him to listen..

turftoad
03-26-2009, 04:08 PM
some valid thoughts

lets talk about them..

Marshall well he may not be here next year same goes for Scheffler..

that leaves Eddie, graham, and well no one else..

gaffney that experience goes to Cassell..

Perhaps throwing on the move is valid but if jay does not have the system down like Cassell that may not be a huge advantage..

game experience no Cassell knows how to read the defenses something that jay is not quite there yet especially in the new scheme.. what to do if this happens.. etc..

while jay may have overall game time does he really know the scheme and what to do better?

I think I can really understand why Josh would like to have a guy that took his team to 11-5 last year in a tough division on his team.. I'm not sure why Y'all can't..

I would miss the big arm, but that is about all..

Well, it may take Jay a year to get the new system down pat. It's not like we're going to the Superbowl this year anyway.

A year I'm willing to wait to hold onto a more physically gifted athlete.

BTW, NE went 16-0 just the year before. So.......... Cassel himself is worth 5 losses right out of the gate.

Fan in Exile
03-26-2009, 04:11 PM
I think its spelled "Report"...correct me if im wrong.

It's spelled rapport it's actually comes from an old french word.

dogfish
03-26-2009, 04:21 PM
I think its spelled "Report"...correct me if im wrong.


rapport. . . . ;)




What in the world are you talking about JR??


Is Mdc system soo hard to understand that only poeple with a 500 IQ or standford grads can run it????

Jay needs to know the routes of his WR, and the snap count and who is lining up where. I do not think that is hard for him to do. Thats what ANY QB MUST DO.....

The rest is all football stuff he knows. Mcd system is not any different for reading defenses, or knowing what D the player is in, or where the pressure is ccoming from. Thats all on the QB ahead of time...

The only new thing to Jay is just the routes, who is lining up where, and the snap count and hot reads. IF you are telling me that Jay can not do those things then you must think Jay is dumber than a bag of hammers.

And if you think that cassel would be better because he knows the routes and everything then thats crazy too.

And who says Jay cant use his tools. Is there someone somehwere that has already said "oh wait, Jay you are rocket arm, but your tools are useless in this sytem because i have forseen it"



yea. . . . i get kinda sick of people using that term "strong-armed QB" and its variants (rocket arm, gunslinger, etc) to pidgeonhole jay-- a lot of people around here seem to think that a big arm is the only thing he has going for him, and that's a buncha shit. . . dude has PLENTY of other valuable attributes. . .

he has good feet and moves well within the pocket, and he also has the size and strength to fight free of arm tackles-- his escapability is one of the reasons we gave up so few sacks last year, it isn't 100% on the line. . . . he runs pretty well in the open field for a QB (he played an option system his first two years in college) and is capable of extending plays or scrambling for the first down, and he's not afraid to lower his shoulder to get to the down marker. . . he's also very accurate throwing on the move (i never saw this specific stat for last year, but two years ago he had by far the highest rating in the league for passing from outside the pocket). . . he clearly has the respect of the guys in the huddle regardless of what fans say about him, he's show that he isn't afraid to stand in the pocket and take a hit, unlike other QBs that got pounded early in their careers and became gun shy. . . he runs the two-minute drill quite capably, and he already has multiple fourth quarter comebacks and would have more if our freakin' _efense could hold a lead. . . he's durable, and has shown that he can shake off a hit and get back in the game. . . and really, the major weaknesses in his game are mostly standard issues with younger quarterbacks-- all things that can be improved with experience and good coaching. . . .

Simple Jaded
03-26-2009, 04:26 PM
So McDaniels has made it clear... again... Anddd, Cutler still won't comment on the situation. Get real.

The Broncos told all their players to not comment on it, but to you that's reason enough to criticize Cutler?

Some fans are acting as petulant as Cutler supposedly is.......I love irony.......

Simple Jaded
03-26-2009, 04:32 PM
some valid thoughts

lets talk about them..

Marshall well he may not be here next year same goes for Scheffler..

that leaves Eddie, graham, and well no one else..

gaffney that experience goes to Cassell..

Perhaps throwing on the move is valid but if jay does not have the system down like Cassell that may not be a huge advantage..

game experience no Cassell knows how to read the defenses something that jay is not quite there yet especially in the new scheme.. what to do if this happens.. etc..

while jay may have overall game time does he really know the scheme and what to do better?

I think I can really understand why Josh would like to have a guy that took his team to 11-5 last year in a tough division on his team.. I'm not sure why Y'all can't..

I would miss the big arm, but that is about all..

Cutler is the better player, I'm not sure why ya'll can't see that.......actually, you and I both know why you can't see that.

If Doogie can't get a QB as smart and talented as Jay Cutler to "Know" his system as well as Cassell does, than Doogie's not worth the paper his paycheck is written on.......

fcspikeit
03-26-2009, 04:38 PM
from day one of this he has said Jay was his QB and IF a deal they could not pass on to make the TEAM better they would pull the card to do so..

I do not understand why Y'all can't deal with it..

I'd guess that even mikey would have listened to a two firsts and a good to great young QB for Jay..

At least I would have wanted him to listen..

And with those 2 1st round picks we could have drafted another Moss and Nash..

QB is the hardest position to fill in the league.. The reason you want all those high picks is to fill holes. Why would you open such a huge hole for a couple high picks just to have the hope of finding someone who can fill a hole?

That's not progress, you have to keep your best players and try to add to them. If you keep trading them you will never have enough pieces to make the puzzle..

TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 04:43 PM
What in the world are you talking about JR??


Is Mdc system soo hard to understand that only poeple with a 500 IQ or standford grads can run it????

Jay needs to know the routes of his WR, and the snap count and who is lining up where. I do not think that is hard for him to do. Thats what ANY QB MUST DO.....

The rest is all football stuff he knows. Mcd system is not any different for reading defenses, or knowing what D the player is in, or where the pressure is ccoming from. Thats all on the QB ahead of time...

The only new thing to Jay is just the routes, who is lining up where, and the snap count and hot reads. IF you are telling me that Jay can not do those things then you must think Jay is dumber than a bag of hammers.

And if you think that cassel would be better because he knows the routes and everything then thats crazy too.

And who says Jay cant use his tools. Is there someone somehwere that has already said "oh wait, Jay you are rocket arm, but your tools are useless in this sytem because i have forseen it"

If I'm not mistaken McDaniels offense lines up in shot gun formation quite a bit maybe even about 50% of time. And I'm pretty sure Jay has said that he prefers to be the shot gun rather than right under center.

TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 04:49 PM
rapport. . . . ;)







yea. . . . i get kinda sick of people using that term "strong-armed QB" and its variants (rocket arm, gunslinger, etc) to pidgeonhole jay-- a lot of people around here seem to think that a big arm is the only think he has going for him, and that's a buncha shit. . . dude has PLENTY of other valuable attributes. . .

he has good feet and moves well within the pocket, and he also has the size and strength to figth free of arm tackles-- his escapability is one of the reasons we gave up so few sacks last year, it isn't 100% on the line. . . . he runs pretty well in the open field for a QB (he played an option system his first two years in college) and is capable of extending plays or scrambling for the first down, and he's not afraid to lower his shoulder to get to the down marker. . . he's also very accurate throwing on the move (i never saw this specific stat for last year, but two years ago he had by far the highest rating in the league for passing from outside the pocket). . . he clearly has the respect of the guys in the huddle regardless of what fans say about him, he's show that he isn't afraid to stand in the pocket and take a hit, unlike other QBs that got pounded early in their careers and became gun shy. . . he runs the two-minute drill quite capably, and he already has multiple fourth quarter comebacks and would have more if our freakin' _efense could hold a lead. . . he's durable, and has shown that he can shake off a hit and get back in the game. . . and really, the major weaknesses in his game are mostly standard issues with younger quarterbacks-- all things that can be improved with experience and good coaching. . . .

Jay's passer rating is well over a 100 outside of the pocket.

And speaking getting pounded if one requirements of McDaniels offense is for the quarterback to stay in the pocket and get sacked 47 times in a year then I don't that's anything I would want for my starting quarterback.

TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 04:52 PM
And with those 2 1st round picks we could have drafted another Moss and Nash..

QB is the hardest position to fill in the league.. The reason you want all those high picks is to fill holes. Why would you open such a huge hole for a couple high picks just to have the hope of finding someone who can fill a hole?

That's not progress, you have to keep your best players and try to add to them. If you keep trading them you will never have enough pieces to make the puzzle..

It would be the equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

NightTrainLayne
03-26-2009, 04:53 PM
I would imagine any agent would tell their client to not speak on something like this in public. Also, it is posted by Woody Paige on the denver post site, that McD would not even speak to the denver post - just the NFL network!!!!!!


My comment was in regards to Cutler not commenting on McD's interview with NFL Network today.

:confused:

Cutler and his agent didn't have any problem commenting on several "behind-closed-doors" meetings and conference calls. .. .but now we are to believe that his agent thinks it's a good idea to not talk to the media about a public interview?

I don't buy that argument at all.

fcspikeit
03-26-2009, 04:53 PM
from day one of this he has said Jay was his QB and IF a deal they could not pass on to make the TEAM better they would pull the card to do so..

I do not understand why Y'all can't deal with it..

I'd guess that even mikey would have listened to a two firsts and a good to great young QB for Jay..

At least I would have wanted him to listen..

That is not a commitment..

If your standing at the alter with someone and your commitment is, "I will love you unless I find someone better or someone who can better my life" You are not committing to them!

Maybe they can live with that? But don't think your fooling anyone by saying your committed to them and you just want them to meet you half way.

Maybe Cutler should say, I will commit to the team until I am no longer happy, then I'm going to make sure everyone knows about it.. Somehow I don't think McDaniels would except that as a real commitment.. Cutler shouldn't have to either..

TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 04:58 PM
from day one of this he has said Jay was his QB and IF a deal they could not pass on to make the TEAM better they would pull the card to do so..

I do not understand why Y'all can't deal with it..

I'd guess that even mikey would have listened to a two firsts and a good to great young QB for Jay..

At least I would have wanted him to listen..

Yep and as Shanahan would have listen then hung up the phone with them, then he would have called up Jay and then two of would have laughed their asses off at the ridiculousness of such a trade.

fcspikeit
03-26-2009, 05:02 PM
It would be the equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It would be the equivalent of cutting your nose off just to have the chance of finding an ear or maybe another nose..

It would be the equivalent of stupidity...

Acedude
03-26-2009, 05:06 PM
So the Broncos got their answer once again. He will play! Great news right? That is after all what they wanted to hear right?

So why is there still a real possibility he could be traded :confused:

Maybe Jay's crappy team attitude might want them to look into trades, who knows.

claymore
03-26-2009, 05:08 PM
from day one of this he has said Jay was his QB and IF a deal they could not pass on to make the TEAM better they would pull the card to do so..

I do not understand why Y'all can't deal with it..

I'd guess that even mikey would have listened to a two firsts and a good to great young QB for Jay..

At least I would have wanted him to listen..

He would have listened and laughed as he hung up the phone. Shannahan has been around some pretty special QB's, and he loved Cutler. That has to count for something.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-26-2009, 05:12 PM
Cutler is the better player, I'm not sure why ya'll can't see that.......actually, you and I both know why you can't see that.

If Doogie can't get a QB as smart and talented as Jay Cutler to "Know" his system as well as Cassell does, than Doogie's not worth the paper his paycheck is written on.......

And so, McD brings Cassell in because he knows his system - OK, so, does not the other offensive players also need to learn his system, or is Cassell so great, that he is the only offensive player who needs to know McD's system? So, common sense tells you all of the offensive players new to McD's system needs to learn it to make it successful - so, let's throw Jay in that mix also, and they can all learn it together.

turftoad
03-26-2009, 05:15 PM
And so, McD brings Cassell in because he knows his system - OK, so, does not the other offensive players also need to learn his system, or is Cassell so great, that he is the only offensive player who needs to know McD's system? So, common sense tells you all of the offensive players new to McD's system needs to learn it to make it successful - so, let's throw Jay in that mix also, and they can all learn it together.

Great point Carol.

Simple Jaded
03-26-2009, 06:21 PM
rapport. . . . ;)







yea. . . . i get kinda sick of people using that term "strong-armed QB" and its variants (rocket arm, gunslinger, etc) to pidgeonhole jay-- a lot of people around here seem to think that a big arm is the only think he has going for him, and that's a buncha shit. . . dude has PLENTY of other valuable attributes. . .

he has good feet and moves well within the pocket, and he also has the size and strength to figth free of arm tackles-- his escapability is one of the reasons we gave up so few sacks last year, it isn't 100% on the line. . . . he runs pretty well in the open field for a QB (he played an option system his first two years in college) and is capable of extending plays or scrambling for the first down, and he's not afraid to lower his shoulder to get to the down marker. . . he's also very accurate throwing on the move (i never saw this specific stat for last year, but two years ago he had by far the highest rating in the league for passing from outside the pocket). . . he clearly has the respect of the guys in the huddle regardless of what fans say about him, he's show that he isn't afraid to stand in the pocket and take a hit, unlike other QBs that got pounded early in their careers and became gun shy. . . he runs the two-minute drill quite capably, and he already has multiple fourth quarter comebacks and would have more if our freakin' _efense could hold a lead. . . he's durable, and has shown that he can shake off a hit and get back in the game. . . and really, the major weaknesses in his game are mostly standard issues with younger quarterbacks-- all things that can be improved with experience and good coaching. . . .

To those people, talking about his arm strength as if it's his only redeeming quality is the same as calling him a baby.......it's meant to be an insult.

There are still a lot of people wetting their pants because Cutler said he had a stronger arm than Elway.......I can't think of anything more anal than getting bent because Cutler thinks he has a stronger arm.

Seriously, if Cutler's confidence bothers you, then you need to unplug for a while.......he was simply answering a question, that's it.

20 years ago, a lot of you Cutler Critics were probably criticizing Elway just as venomously as you are Cutler.......that's who you are.......that's what you do.......you are a Broncos fans.......it's tradition.......

Lonestar
03-26-2009, 06:26 PM
And with those 2 1st round picks we could have drafted another Moss and Nash..

QB is the hardest position to fill in the league.. The reason you want all those high picks is to fill holes. Why would you open such a huge hole for a couple high picks just to have the hope of finding someone who can fill a hole?

That's not progress, you have to keep your best players and try to add to them. If you keep trading them you will never have enough pieces to make the puzzle..

but you conveniently forget if he had made the trade he would have had Cassell and TWO picks.. so finding said QB is not an issue ..

Finding 3-5 quality players for the front seven would have been much easier..

dogfish
03-26-2009, 06:36 PM
Jay's passer rating is well over a 100 outside of the pocket.

And speaking getting pounded if one requirements of McDaniels offense is for the quarterback to stay in the pocket and get sacked 47 times in a year then I don't that's anything I would want for my starting quarterback.


actually, that was mostly due to cassel's inability to make quick reads and decisions-- that same line did a fantastic job of protecting brady all the way through 18-0, until they ran into the buzzsaw of the giants D-line. . .


but yea, cassel's a better QB for us than jay. . . . :rolleyes:

Lonestar
03-26-2009, 06:39 PM
To those people, talking about his arm strength as if it's his only redeeming quality is the same as calling him a baby.......it's meant to be an insult.

There are still a lot of people wetting their pants because Cutler said he had a stronger arm than Elway.......I can't think of anything more anal than getting bent because Cutler thinks he has a stronger arm.

Seriously, if Cutler's confidence bothers you, then you need to unplug for a while.......he was simply answering a question, that's it.

20 years ago, a lot of you Cutler Critics were probably criticizing Elway just as venomously as you are Cutler.......that's who you are.......that's what you do.......you are a Broncos fans.......it's tradition.......


Just as taking it to the house was the phrase of choice to describe RB's. A simple term or phrase..

If Y'all are that thin skinned about terms used to describe cutler, perhaps it is time to reassess why your a bronco fan..
is it just because of jay and the POTENTIAL he has/brings?

Or is it because no matter how they play they bring you satisfaction for giving it everything they had.. Even if they lost and it was to a superior team I have very little doubt, I enjoyed the game.. Disappointed yes but not willing to give up on my team..

If Josh believes that we do not need jay to be our QB and can get fair market value for him and use that to improve the D I'm all for it..

I remember many of Y'all spouting off over the years trade Champ for picks at the time I was not for it because we always squandered the DAFT choice anyway..

I have zero reason at this minute to believe that Josh does not have the horse power to make this a better team, I repeat a BETTER TEAM. Than what we have had over the past 8-9 years..

When I do think he has blown it I'll be as vocal with him as I was with mikey..

BroncoWave
03-26-2009, 06:55 PM
BTW, NE went 16-0 just the year before. So.......... Cassel himself is worth 5 losses right out of the gate.

Give me a freaking break. You have absolutely no way to prove that statement and you are making alot of assumptions that he alone is worth 5 losses. First of all, they got a LOT of lucky breaks in that 16-0 season. If a couple of different calls or made or the ball bounces a different way a couple of times they could have just as easily gone 13-3 that season. And you also have to consider that they had a future HOF QB leading that team. What it sounds to me like you're saying is that just because Cassel didn't lead his team to as good a season as one of the TOP TWO quarterbacks in the NFL did that he is somehow worthless. Do you realize how stupid that argument is? The fact that a QB who hadn't started a game in like 7 or 8 years led an NFL team to an 11-5 record in his first season as a starter is impressive. To critize him because he didn't lead his team to the same success that one of the best QB's in the game did has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen.

Lonestar
03-26-2009, 07:04 PM
Give me a freaking break. You have absolutely no way to prove that statement and you are making alot of assumptions that he alone is worth 5 losses. First of all, they got a LOT of lucky breaks in that 16-0 season. If a couple of different calls or made or the ball bounces a different way a couple of times they could have just as easily gone 13-3 that season. And you also have to consider that they had a future HOF QB leading that team. What it sounds to me like you're saying is that just because Cassel didn't lead his team to as good a season as one of the TOP TWO quarterbacks in the NFL did that he is somehow worthless. Do you realize how stupid that argument is? The fact that a QB who hadn't started a game in like 7 or 8 years led an NFL team to an 11-5 record in his first season as a starter is impressive. To critize him because he didn't lead his team to the same success that one of the best QB's in the game did has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen.


actually they played MIA twice both years the-0 season they were a doormat and lost to them in one of the first games of the season but then alot of teams lost to MIA last year.. can take that one game off on Cassell fault ..


NO most folks are irrational when it comes to talking about jay the super God of QB's afterall he was an player at the pro bowl last year..

TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 09:47 PM
actually, that was mostly due to cassel's inability to make quick reads and decisions-- that same line did a fantastic job of protecting brady all the way through 18-0, until they ran into the buzzsaw of the giants D-line. . .


but yea, cassel's a better QB for us than jay. . . . :rolleyes:

That was my point. Cassel was sacked 47 times because he held onto the ball way to long.

NameUsedBefore
03-26-2009, 09:51 PM
Give me a freaking break. You have absolutely no way to prove that statement and you are making alot of assumptions that he alone is worth 5 losses. First of all, they got a LOT of lucky breaks in that 16-0 season. If a couple of different calls or made or the ball bounces a different way a couple of times they could have just as easily gone 13-3 that season. And you also have to consider that they had a future HOF QB leading that team. What it sounds to me like you're saying is that just because Cassel didn't lead his team to as good a season as one of the TOP TWO quarterbacks in the NFL did that he is somehow worthless. Do you realize how stupid that argument is? The fact that a QB who hadn't started a game in like 7 or 8 years led an NFL team to an 11-5 record in his first season as a starter is impressive. To critize him because he didn't lead his team to the same success that one of the best QB's in the game did has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen.

A lot of lucky breaks will get you a perfect season, but you don't just fall into throwing for 50 TDs. That team was solid on all sides. BTW, backups coming in and playing like they're on fire is nothing new. Nor is it all that new to see a backup play great, sign on or get traded to another team, then bomb and slowly fall into being a backup again.

TXBRONC
03-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Give me a freaking break. You have absolutely no way to prove that statement and you are making alot of assumptions that he alone is worth 5 losses. First of all, they got a LOT of lucky breaks in that 16-0 season. If a couple of different calls or made or the ball bounces a different way a couple of times they could have just as easily gone 13-3 that season. And you also have to consider that they had a future HOF QB leading that team. What it sounds to me like you're saying is that just because Cassel didn't lead his team to as good a season as one of the TOP TWO quarterbacks in the NFL did that he is somehow worthless. Do you realize how stupid that argument is? The fact that a QB who hadn't started a game in like 7 or 8 years led an NFL team to an 11-5 record in his first season as a starter is impressive. To critize him because he didn't lead his team to the same success that one of the best QB's in the game did has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen.

That argument is renewed here day in and day out.

Simple Jaded
03-27-2009, 02:25 AM
Just as taking it to the house was the phrase of choice to describe RB's. A simple term or phrase..

If Y'all are that thin skinned about terms used to describe cutler, perhaps it is time to reassess why your a bronco fan..
is it just because of jay and the POTENTIAL he has/brings?

Or is it because no matter how they play they bring you satisfaction for giving it everything they had.. Even if they lost and it was to a superior team I have very little doubt, I enjoyed the game.. Disappointed yes but not willing to give up on my team..

If Josh believes that we do not need jay to be our QB and can get fair market value for him and use that to improve the D I'm all for it..

I remember many of Y'all spouting off over the years trade Champ for picks at the time I was not for it because we always squandered the DAFT choice anyway..

I have zero reason at this minute to believe that Josh does not have the horse power to make this a better team, I repeat a BETTER TEAM. Than what we have had over the past 8-9 years..

When I do think he has blown it I'll be as vocal with him as I was with mikey..

All you need to know is that I am a Broncos fan, not a Jay Cutler fan, not a Doogie fan.......how that shapes your opinion of my posts means very little to me, as I'm sure you couldn't care less if I think you're biased either.

Call it thin-skinned, call it whatever, I guess I should apologize for my low tolerance for BS, but if what I said doesn't ring a bell with you than I'm not talking about you and you should have no reason to explain yourself to me.......however, if I struck a nerve, perhaps it is time to reassess why you're a Broncos fan.......

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 02:46 AM
.......however, if I struck a nerve, perhaps it is time to reassess why you're a Broncos fan.......

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha as I said to Turf today I've been a bronco fan probably longer than he has been alive and I was right.

Please never question my loyalties about it again.

Simple Jaded
03-27-2009, 03:08 AM
Please never question my loyalties about it again.

You make sure to extend the same courtesy or I promise nothing. This was your mistake to begin with, not mine.......

Elevation inc
03-27-2009, 05:54 AM
Just as taking it to the house was the phrase of choice to describe RB's. A simple term or phrase..

If Y'all are that thin skinned about terms used to describe cutler, perhaps it is time to reassess why your a bronco fan..
is it just because of jay and the POTENTIAL he has/brings?

Or is it because no matter how they play they bring you satisfaction for giving it everything they had.. Even if they lost and it was to a superior team I have very little doubt, I enjoyed the game.. Disappointed yes but not willing to give up on my team..

If Josh believes that we do not need jay to be our QB and can get fair market value for him and use that to improve the D I'm all for it..

I remember many of Y'all spouting off over the years trade Champ for picks at the time I was not for it because we always squandered the DAFT choice anyway..

I have zero reason at this minute to believe that Josh does not have the horse power to make this a better team, I repeat a BETTER TEAM. Than what we have had over the past 8-9 years..

When I do think he has blown it I'll be as vocal with him as I was with mikey..




here is my concern everybody is talking about Shannys past draft failures???? what draft success has MCD proven to have???? xanders knows very little about prospects and said himself he needs to learn some scouting.

Shanny was an offensive genius thats was great at signing offensive players. MCD is a offensive cordinator that hasnt had to evaluate defensive college players.


What makes everyone so sure, MCD and xanders will make the right picks on defense? I actually am very pissed off the goodmans are gone becasue they are a huge reason why talent resides in denver at this very moment. We replaced them with a rookie head coach and GM who doesnt know scouting? how is that an upgrade.



Maybe this is a little off topic. but personally this upcoming draft concerns me quite a bit, with these rookies in charge, especially since up to this point both have proved to be not only naive in some aspects, but every bit as green as the the naysayers worried about!



there also is a big difference in wanting champ traded vs trading cutler. Franchise caliber Qb's are a lot harder to find.

RJalias
03-27-2009, 07:57 AM
The truth is though Elevation, is that we may have a rookie coach and a very new GM, but we can't assume they are gonna do horribly in picking the draft picks, or getting talent to come to Denver. Even if Shanahan WAS an offensive genius, he still was at ONE point a rookie when it came to everything. He was once in the position that McDaniels was. Let's evaluate after next season how McDaniels will be dealing with the defense, and even our offense.

Den21vsBal19
03-27-2009, 08:00 AM
The truth is though Elevation, is that we may have a rookie coach and a very new GM, but we can't assume they are gonna do horribly in picking the draft picks, or getting talent to come to Denver. Even if Shanahan WAS an offensive genius, he still was at ONE point a rookie when it came to everything. He was once in the position that McDaniels was. Let's evaluate after next season how McDaniels will be dealing with the defense, and even our offense.
Welcome to the boards, hope you enjoy your time here :beer:

RJalias
03-27-2009, 08:19 AM
Welcome to the boards, hope you enjoy your time here :beer:

Thank you! Glad to be here!

Elevation inc
03-27-2009, 02:24 PM
The truth is though Elevation, is that we may have a rookie coach and a very new GM, but we can't assume they are gonna do horribly in picking the draft picks, or getting talent to come to Denver. Even if Shanahan WAS an offensive genius, he still was at ONE point a rookie when it came to everything. He was once in the position that McDaniels was. Let's evaluate after next season how McDaniels will be dealing with the defense, and even our offense.

we also cant assume they were going to wonders for this defense by trading for cassel and and some picks......they are a unknown entity when it comes to evaluating talent, so why on earth would you risk you head coaching job for a QB and what you feel would be the chance to add good defensive players, when in all actuallity you have done nothing in you career to prove you even know how to evaluate defense.

Not to mention the fact that this so called QB you were after had severe problems keeping his composure in games, as well as not being able to beat decent teams. most of his wins were against sub par teams.....


So really why should any of us be excited about what he brings......i am neither for or against this situation but people need to see both sides of the fence...to include me....

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 02:32 PM
The truth is though Elevation, is that we may have a rookie coach and a very new GM, but we can't assume they are gonna do horribly in picking the draft picks, or getting talent to come to Denver. Even if Shanahan WAS an offensive genius, he still was at ONE point a rookie when it came to everything. He was once in the position that McDaniels was. Let's evaluate after next season how McDaniels will be dealing with the defense, and even our offense.

my thoughts precisely when I was reading his post.. mikey was indeed a rookie when he walked through the door and was BOTH defacto GM and HC..

and please do not bring up the time he spent in OAK as HC like he learned something there..

Elevation inc
03-27-2009, 02:39 PM
my thoughts precisely when I was reading his post.. mikey was indeed a rookie when he walked through the door and was BOTH defacto GM and HC..

and please do not bring up the time he spent in OAK as HC like he learned something there..

i wont bring it up and i had the same concerns back then about mike as i do MCD.

whats even funnier....is even after all this time it took solid drafting by the goodmans before shanny even made a small mark on defense, and even then it was small. Shanny sucked at drafting defense because he worried aboput the offense to much..................hey wow that sounds familiar.....

Why should i feel if shanny couldnt draft defense that MCD can...its been proven by shanny he didnt have a clue about defense, and he was a HC for a very long time. MCD is rookie from a offensive haven......well you get the drift im sure......

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 02:50 PM
i wont bring it up and i had the same concerns back then about mike as i do MCD.

whats even funnier....is even after all this time it took solid drafting by the goodmans before shanny even made a small mark on defense, and even then it was small. Shanny sucked at drafting defense because he worried aboput the offense to much..................hey wow that sounds familiar.....

Why should i feel if shanny couldnt draft defense that MCD can...its been proven by shanny he didnt5 have a clue about defense, and he was a HC for a very long time. MCD is rookie from a offensive haven......well you get the drift im sure......

I think if you look at NE records while they set some records on O there defense is not to shabby either .. they are a firm believer in drafting LOS product on D Knowing that they are the corner stones for the D..

At last our Defensive players under Josh will not feel like second class citizen like they did when mikey was here..

I'm willing to trust Pat in his decisions in building the team.. I for one am happy with the choices.. but then I stopped loving and believing mikey walked on waster about 6 years ago..

Some here still are waiting for Pat to hire him back..:laugh::laugh::laugh:

turftoad
03-27-2009, 02:57 PM
I think if you look at NE records while they set some records on O there defense is not to shabby either .. they are a firm believer in drafting LOS product on D Knowing that they are the corner stones for the D..

At last our Defensive players under Josh will not feel like second class citizen like they did when mikey was here..

I'm willing to trust Pat in his decisions in building the team.. I for one am happy with the choices.. but then I stopped loving and believing mikey walked on waster about 6 years ago..

Some here still are waiting for Pat to hire him back..:laugh::laugh::laugh:

First of all, McD had NOTHING to do with the Pats defense. So how does that translate into thier defense wasn't/isn't to shabby.

He wasn't the head coach, he wasn't the GM, he wasn't the DC.

McD has NEVER drafted a defensive player in his career.

So.............. there will be skepticism and there should be.

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 03:00 PM
First of all, McD had NOTHING to do with the Pats defense. So how does that translate into thier defense wasn't/isn't to shabby.

He wasn't the head coach, he wasn't the GM, he wasn't the DC.

McD has NEVER drafted a defensive player in his career.

So.............. there will be skepticism and there should be.

He was a defensive coaching assistant in 2002 and 2003.

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:03 PM
Yep, he was 25-26 yrs old. He assisted in bringing the assistant coaches thier water bottles and whistles. :D

I doubt he had any say in who they drafted or had any input on gameplans or anything much at all for that matter.

I don't think him being an asst coach asst makes him a defensive guru.

CoachChaz
03-27-2009, 03:03 PM
McDaniels sucks. He'll never win a game...never draft a good player...never be the one that creates any new success in Denver and forever be known as the guy that alienated the QB with the strongest arm EVER (because that's what counts)













Maybe if I just agree I'll maintain sanity

CoachChaz
03-27-2009, 03:04 PM
Yep, he was 25-26 yrs old. He assisted in bringing the assistant coaches thier water bottles and whistles. :D

I doubt he had any say in who they drafted or had any input on gameplans or anything much at all for that matter.

Im just going to use this as an example as opposed to singling out Toad....but why is EVERY single point ever made for McDaniels or against Cutler ALWAYS folowed with some petty excuse? I'm just curious

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 03:10 PM
First of all, McD had NOTHING to do with the Pats defense. So how does that translate into thier defense wasn't/isn't to shabby.

He wasn't the head coach, he wasn't the GM, he wasn't the DC.

McD has NEVER drafted a defensive player in his career.

So.............. there will be skepticism and there should be.

well I guess just being their and being in the war room when making picks does not mean anything.. Nor I guess seeing how the team has been set up for the past 8 years he was with the club is total bull shit also..

Just because you are not a DC, HC, GM owner does not mean a bright kid like he is does not pick up on few things here or there..

I guess I was not totally clear in my posting before..

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:10 PM
McDaniels sucks. He'll never win a game...never draft a good player...never be the one that creates any new success in Denver and forever be known as the guy that alienated the QB with the strongest arm EVER (because that's what counts)




I think he's probaly a good coach/teacher.

I hope we do win some games with him.

I hope he does draft some good players.

I hope he does create some success.

However, he is a rookie coach. Questions will be asked and there will be skepticism.

I just don't understand how some want to put his name in the same sentence with the likes of Lombardi, Shula etc... etc...

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 03:14 PM
I think he's probaly a good coach/teacher.

I hope we do win some games with him.

I hope he does draft some good players.

I hope he does create some success.

However, he is a rookie coach. Questions will be asked and there will be skepticism.

I just don't understand how some want to put his name in the same sentence with the likes of Lombardi, Shula etc... etc...

Love you man but even this is a huge stretch.. something I'd expect from others but not YOU..

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:15 PM
Im just going to use this as an example as opposed to singling out Toad....but why is EVERY single point ever made for McDaniels or against Cutler ALWAYS folowed with some petty excuse? I'm just curious

I agree Coach. However, you could say the same thing except say, for Cutler or against McD.

Works both ways.

Anyway, it's a shitty subject. Both sides of the fence refuse to give in.

CoachChaz
03-27-2009, 03:16 PM
I think he's probaly a good coach/teacher.

I hope we do win some games with him.

I hope he does draft some good players.

I hope he does create some success.

However, he is a rookie coach. Questions will be asked and there will be skepticism.

I just don't understand how some want to put his name in the same sentence with the likes of Lombardi, Shula etc... etc...

I dont think anyone is making him out to be the second coming, but if it appears that way, just imagine what others are making Jay to look like.

I think it's more of a respect for the success that McD has had as an offensive mind. No, he shows no proof of being a defensive mastermind, but he did hire a guy to take care of that side of the ball.

He's yet to do anything to warrant the inane criticism that he gets...at least until there is some sort of proof that he indeed did outright lie. Even then, it was blown up beyond where it ever should have been

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:16 PM
Love you man but even this is a huge stretch.. something I'd expect from others but not YOU..

JR, it's no different in saying that ALL Cutler supporters think he's the next comming of Elway.

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:17 PM
I dont think anyone is making him out to be the second coming, but if it appears that way, just imagine what others are making Jay to look like.

I think it's more of a respect for the success that McD has had as an offensive mind. No, he shows no proof of being a defensive mastermind, but he did hire a guy to take care of that side of the ball.

He's yet to do anything to warrant the inane criticism that he gets...at least until there is some sort of proof that he indeed did outright lie. Even then, it was blown up beyond where it ever should have been

Agreed 100% :beer:

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 03:22 PM
JR, it's no different in saying that ALL Cutler supporters think he's the next comming of Elway.

your wrong there also I always say Y'all compare him the Jesus Christo.. and him walking on water. :laugh::laugh:

we all know he can't carry Johns jock.. :salute:

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:29 PM
your wrong there also I always say Y'all compare him the Jesus Christo.. and him walking on water. :laugh::laugh:

we all know he can't carry Johns jock.. :salute:

:salute: I know.

Anyway, I'm getting sick and tired of this whole sitch. I understand both sides and believe both sides are at fault.

There has been some really great dialogue on this subject and there has been some really crappy stuff to.

I'm just to the point where I don't give a shit anymore. I just want it to be over (whichever way it goes) so we can all move on.

Let the chips fall where they may. :salute:

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 03:33 PM
:salute: I know.

Anyway, I'm getting sick and tired of this whole sitch. I understand both sides and believe both sides are at fault.

There has been some really great dialogue on this subject and there has been some really crappy stuff to.

I'm just to the point where I don't give a shit anymore. I just want it to be over (whichever way it goes) so we can all move on.

Let the chips fall where they may. :salute:


so your OK with jay in DET as loin?:salute:

Your correct if we could get the jay group to come off the Josh is lying then it all calms down..:laugh:

CoachChaz
03-27-2009, 03:33 PM
:salute: I know.

Anyway, I'm getting sick and tired of this whole sitch. I understand both sides and believe both sides are at fault.

There has been some really great dialogue on this subject and there has been some really crappy stuff to.

I'm just to the point where I don't give a shit anymore. I just want it to be over (whichever way it goes) so we can all move on.

Let the chips fall where they may. :salute:

I cant say I've heard a better idea in the past few weeks. At this point all it has done is turn some good posters into idiots and created alot of dissent amongst friends. Nothing positive can be said any longer. Maybe you all should issue immediate bans to anyone that talks about it for awhile.

CoachChaz
03-27-2009, 03:34 PM
so your OK with jay in DET as loin?:salute:

Your correct if we could get the jay group to come off the Josh is lying then it all calms down..:laugh:

I would say no...simply because that likely means Matt Stafford for us and I DO NOT want that to happen.

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 03:37 PM
I would say no...simply because that likely means Matt Stafford for us and I DO NOT want that to happen.

coach I was teasing my buddy.

frankly I think any QB with a decent arm, can follow instructions/coaching and brains enough to pour piss out of boot.. can work in this upcoming Offense..


and more importantly become a franchise QB like Brady and Cassell have done..

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:43 PM
coach I was teasing my buddy.

frankly I think any QB with a decent arm, can follow instructions/coaching and brains enough to pour piss out of boot.. can work in this upcoming Offense..


and more importantly become a franchise QB like Brady and Cassell have done..

So now Cassel is a franchise QB :confused: :tsk:

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 03:44 PM
So now Cassel is a franchise QB :confused: :tsk:

Yup. He's in charge of the "franchise QB" position in Kansas City. And in Kansas City they have an NFL Franchise. :D

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:47 PM
so your OK with jay in DET as loin?:salute:

Your correct if we could get the jay group to come off the Josh is lying then it all calms down..:laugh:

At this point, if he's not here, I could care less where he goes.

However, I would like him to stay here. I also think, when, he learns the offense he could be lethal.

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:48 PM
Yup. He's in charge of the "franchise QB" position in Kansas City. And in Kansas City they have an NFL Franchise. :D

No, no he's not. He has to battle Thigpen for that. The new coach and GM has already stated they compete for the job.

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 03:49 PM
No, no he's not. He has to battle Thigpen for that. The new coach and GM has already stated they compete for the job.

Ah...hooey, they are just lying.

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:51 PM
Ah...hooey, they are just lying.

Yeah, I think we all know that, but, stranger things have happened. Thigpen didn't look to bad last year.

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 03:53 PM
So now Cassel is a franchise QB :confused: :tsk:

I think he would have been in NE.. had Brady been seriously hurt..

Definition of franchise guy IMO is a player that is great in your system and wins many more than he causes losses..

He may not live up to those standards in KC as jay might not in DET or CLE as did many RB that were great in our system but failed else where..

turftoad
03-27-2009, 03:58 PM
I think he would have been in NE.. had Brady been seriously hurt..

Definition of franchise guy IMO is a player that is great in your system and wins many more than he causes losses..

He may not live up to those standards in KC as jay might not in DET or CLE as did many RB that were great in our system but failed else where..

One year does not a francise player make.

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 04:01 PM
One year does not a francise player make.

your correct but had Brady not come back I believe he would have slipped right in and kept them at there same level for years to come and that my friend is the classic definition of franchise QB..

Unless you have a much higher standard that is..

broncohead
03-27-2009, 04:09 PM
I think he would have been in NE.. had Brady been seriously hurt..

Definition of franchise guy IMO is a player that is great in your system and wins many more than he causes losses..

He may not live up to those standards in KC as jay might not in DET or CLE as did many RB that were great in our system but failed else where..

Jay Doesn't "cause" losses so are you saying he is a franchise QB?

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 04:36 PM
Jay Doesn't "cause" losses so are you saying he is a franchise QB?

I guess when he starts to win more than he looses perhaps.. :laugh::laugh:

Shazam!
03-27-2009, 04:42 PM
As the earlier talk of the NE D, I'd take any Patriots defense since 2001 then teh Denver defense the last two seasons.

Cassel can be a franchise QB as much as Cutler can be.

Both are 0-0 in postseason.

dogfish
03-27-2009, 04:44 PM
Yeah, I think we all know that, but, stranger things have happened. Thigpen didn't look to bad last year.

i'll laugh my ass off if thigpen actually manages to beat out cassel. . . . :elefant:

turftoad
03-27-2009, 05:19 PM
your correct but had Brady not come back I believe he would have slipped right in and kept them at there same level for years to come and that my friend is the classic definition of franchise QB..

Unless you have a much higher standard that is..

That says it all. :D

bud
03-27-2009, 05:31 PM
Looks like Cutler is going to show up for work to me. If he plays well in the remainder of his contract, Cutler will earn everything he wants. Cutler can win his apology (and more) on the field.

The better Cutler plays, the more leverage he'll have... If Cutler wants respect, that's the way to get it.

bud
03-27-2009, 05:48 PM
your correct but had Brady not come back I believe he would have slipped right in and kept them at there same level for years to come and that my friend is the classic definition of franchise QB..

Unless you have a much higher standard that is..

Oh boy. One or two good years for a quarterback with questionable physical skills.

That proves you have a franchise guy. :lol:

Absolutlely.

Jeff Garcia, Jeff Blake, and Brian Griese were franchise guys for sure.

I'm sold on it now. Cassel is definately going to be productive for a long time...

:elefant::beer::elefant:

We'll see what happens. Scouts look for big strong quarterbacks with rocket arms for a reason. :listen:

In terms of potential, Cutler's raw skills and potential easily outshine Cassel.

We'll see what happens.

dogfish
03-27-2009, 05:53 PM
In terms of potential, Cutler's raw skills and potential easily outshine Cassel.




not to mention, in terms of production. . . .

DenBronx
03-27-2009, 05:55 PM
not to mention, in terms of production. . . .

what do you mean production? your acting like he threw for 4526 yard last season.

bud
03-27-2009, 05:59 PM
what do you mean production? your acting like he threw for 4526 yard last season.

That number still floors me. :eek:

I know the NFL has changed and it's easier than ever to throw the football..

But, that is still a CRAZY amount of yardage!

omac
03-27-2009, 06:19 PM
That number still floors me. :eek:

I know the NFL has changed and it's easier than ever to throw the football..

But, that is still a CRAZY amount of yardage!

He does know how to get the chains moving through passing. We haven't had a QB like that in a while. I remember Shanahan used to rush often on 3rd and long, as he was more confident in our rushing offense than our passing offense.

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 07:26 PM
Oh boy. One or two good years for a quarterback with questionable physical skills.

That proves you have a franchise guy. :lol:

Absolutlely.

Jeff Garcia, Jeff Blake, and Brian Griese were franchise guys for sure.

I'm sold on it now. Cassel is definately going to be productive for a long time...

:elefant::beer::elefant:

We'll see what happens. Scouts look for big strong quarterbacks with rocket arms for a reason. :listen:

In terms of potential, Cutler's raw skills and potential easily outshine Cassel.

We'll see what happens.

given the right set of circumstances Cassell could have been how many folks in the NFL thought that Joe Montana would have been as good as he was.. Had he not started out in SFO with the WCO how long would he have been in the league and how many more teams would he have bounced around on..

There is an ass for every saddle.. but not necessarily a saddle for every ass..

Your correct jay potential is greater than Cassell but we will have to see IF he can indeed learn the system and stay healthy..

Time will tell..

Lonestar
03-27-2009, 07:29 PM
That says it all. :D


Glad that you finally get it we all know I'm pretty good at predictions..

bud
03-27-2009, 09:18 PM
given the right set of circumstances Cassell could have been how many folks in the NFL thought that Joe Montana would have been as good as he was.. Had he not started out in SFO with the WCO how long would he have been in the league and how many more teams would he have bounced around on..

There is an ass for every saddle.. but not necessarily a saddle for every ass..

Your correct jay potential is greater than Cassell but we will have to see IF he can indeed learn the system and stay healthy..

Time will tell..

Yep. That's why they play the games. :)

Cassell could be the better quarterback. It could happen.

But, you have admit... just looking at their builds, I think Cassell has more injury worries than Cutler.

Cutler has the kind of big strong frame that "should" help him absorb punishment.

And, we won't even bother comparing their arms...

Given the choice, I would still have to go with Cutler.

Watchthemiddle
03-27-2009, 09:42 PM
what do you mean production? your acting like he threw for 4526 yard last season.

Oh, you mean production like an 11-5 season vs an 8-8 tank job production?

bud
03-27-2009, 10:18 PM
Oh, you mean production like an 11-5 season vs an 8-8 tank job production?

I suppose.

If you're ignorant enough to believe that NFL teams are one man shows that rely solely on the quarterback.

That isn't a direct knock on you. I am guessing you asked that question rhetorically... Or I hope so.

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 10:29 PM
If you're ignorant enough to believe that NFL teams are one man shows that rely solely on the quarterback.

That's a very ironic statement. An EXTREMELY ironic statement. And if you can't see why, I can't help you.

LordTrychon
03-27-2009, 10:32 PM
Oh, you mean production like an 11-5 season vs an 8-8 tank job production?

Taking an 18-1 team to 11-5

or

Taking a 7-9 team to 8-8

bud
03-27-2009, 10:36 PM
That's a very ironic statement. An EXTREMELY ironic statement. And if you can't see why, I can't help you.

:confused: I don't think I want any help from you.

If "help" means ignoring Marshall and bashing Cutler, I don't want any.

I can see the difference between a good young player and a cancer.

MOtorboat
03-27-2009, 10:39 PM
:confused: I don't think I want any help from you.

If "help" means ignoring Marshall and bashing Cutler, I don't want any.

I can see the difference between a good young player and a cancer.

Not sure where you're headed with that. Reading into something that's not there, I'm sure.

What "help" are you referring to?

Simple Jaded
03-27-2009, 11:55 PM
Oh, you mean production like an 11-5 season vs an 8-8 tank job production?

If it were only THAT simple.......must be nice.......

Lonestar
03-28-2009, 02:38 AM
Yep. That's why they play the games. :)

Cassell could be the better quarterback. It could happen.

But, you have admit... just looking at their builds, I think Cassell has more injury worries than Cutler.

Cutler has the kind of big strong frame that "should" help him absorb punishment.

And, we won't even bother comparing their arms...

Given the choice, I would still have to go with Cutler.

I'm more concered with two other kinds of health, diabetes and between the ears..

Accidents can happen anytime on the field, look at what happend to Brady last year.. any QB would have went down getting hit like that..

Shazam!
03-28-2009, 03:02 AM
We all left NE for dead with the loss of Brady. Cassel proved us all wrong. He doesn't have Cutler's arm but he does have skills.

Debating how NE went from 18-1 to 11-5 is kind of silly. The Division was much better last season, with Buffalo going 6-10, Miami 1-15 and the NYJ going 4-12 in 2007. Even Denver could've made the Playoffs if they played in the East that season.

fcspikeit
03-28-2009, 04:01 AM
I suppose.

If you're ignorant enough to believe that NFL teams are one man shows that rely solely on the quarterback.

That isn't a direct knock on you. I am guessing you asked that question rhetorically... Or I hope so.

:lol:

You know what they say, "when you subtract logic, anything can make sense" :lol:

LoyalSoldier
03-28-2009, 06:50 AM
I suppose.

If you're ignorant enough to believe that NFL teams are one man shows that rely solely on the quarterback.

That isn't a direct knock on you. I am guessing you asked that question rhetorically... Or I hope so.

No they don't rely on the QB only. That is why Cassel could have bad games and still win while Cutler had to have amazing games to even have a hope of winning. Let's face it. Cassel had a very good team around him so we will have to see how he does in KC where they are not amazing.

hamrob
03-28-2009, 10:08 AM
Cutler is 13-1 when his defense gives up less than 21 pts. End of story!

Cassell is not and will never be in Jay Cutler's league! He's a dink and dunk passer who has to have a defense do their job or he will be seen as average.

Jay Cutler went to the ProBowl...with the worst defense in the NFL!

BroncoJoe
03-28-2009, 10:18 AM
Cutler is 13-1 when his defense gives up less than 21 pts. End of story!

Cassell is not and will never be in Jay Cutler's league! He's a dink and dunk passer who has to have a defense do their job or he will be seen as average.

Jay Cutler went to the ProBowl...with the worst defense in the NFL!

Not a knock on Cutler, but I'd be curious to see the records of other QB's as well when the defense allows less than 21 points.

Also, it is debatable as to whether or not Cutler "deserved" the Probowl over a few/couple other players. If the voting took place after the end of the season, I really am not sure he would have been voted in.

horsepig
03-28-2009, 08:28 PM
This whole thing is absolutely nuttso! For Christ's sake Cutler is going to turn down 10,000,000 dollars/yr because he's "not untradeable"?

Give me (and every other workingman) a F%^$&*^%g break!

Elevation inc
03-29-2009, 03:27 AM
Not a knock on Cutler, but I'd be curious to see the records of other QB's as well when the defense allows less than 21 points.

Also, it is debatable as to whether or not Cutler "deserved" the Probowl over a few/couple other players. If the voting took place after the end of the season, I really am not sure he would have been voted in.

here is other qb's records when their defense gives up 30 points.

FYI cutlers defense has give up 30 plus points 16 times since he has been QB

Here are the records of QB's when their defense gives up 30+ points. This should help put his record in perspective.


Tom Brady 5-8 (.384);
Jim Kelly 10-20 (.333);
Peyton Manning 9-25 (.265);
Joe Montana 6-17 (.261);
Kurt Warner 6-22 (.214);
Jay Cutler 3-13 (.188);
Steve Young 4-19 (.174);
Ben Roethlisberger 2-10 (.167);
Brett Favre 8-42 (.160);
Terry Bradshaw 4-20-1 (.160);
Donovan McNabb 3-16 (.158);
John Elway 7-41 (.146);
Dan Marino 7-52 (.119);
Phyllis Rivers 1-8 (.111);
Jake Plummer 4-37 (.098), 0-10 w/the Broncos;
Troy Aikman 2-20 (.091);
Ron Jaworski 1-14 (.067);
Eli Manning 1-16 (.059);
Phil Simms 0-20 (.000)


basically no QB can overcome crappy defense all the time

fcspikeit
03-29-2009, 04:31 AM
here is other qb's records when their defense gives up 30 points.

FYI cutlers defense has give up 30 plus points 16 times since he has been QB

Here are the records of QB's when their defense gives up 30+ points. This should help put his record in perspective.


Tom Brady 5-8 (.384);
Jim Kelly 10-20 (.333);
Peyton Manning 9-25 (.265);
Joe Montana 6-17 (.261);
Kurt Warner 6-22 (.214);
Jay Cutler 3-13 (.188);
Steve Young 4-19 (.174);
Ben Roethlisberger 2-10 (.167);
Brett Favre 8-42 (.160);
Terry Bradshaw 4-20-1 (.160);
Donovan McNabb 3-16 (.158);
John Elway 7-41 (.146);
Dan Marino 7-52 (.119);
Phyllis Rivers 1-8 (.111);
Jake Plummer 4-37 (.098), 0-10 w/the Broncos;
Troy Aikman 2-20 (.091);
Ron Jaworski 1-14 (.067);
Eli Manning 1-16 (.059);
Phil Simms 0-20 (.000)


basically no QB can overcome crappy defense all the time

Things look a bit different when you level the playing field.. :salute:


IMO one of the things that stuck out the most is Brady's record of 5-8 for 2 reasons. First of all, when you look at what he has been able to do, its incredible! What's even more incredible is the fact in Brady's entire carrier the Pats defense has only gave up 30 or more 12 times? In just 37 starts for Cutler the Broncos D has gave up 30 or more 16 times.. Good hell, that’s 43% of the games Cutler has started..

Also, I always felt Kelly was underrated as a QB..

Elevation inc
03-29-2009, 06:07 AM
Things look a bit different when you level the playing field.. :salute:


IMO one of the things that stuck out the most is Brady's record of 5-8 for 2 reasons. First of all, when you look at what he has been able to do, its incredible! What's even more incredible is the fact in Brady's entire carrier the Pats defense has only gave up 30 or more 12 times? In just 37 starts for Cutler the Broncos D has gave up 30 or more 16 times.. Good hell, that’s 43% of the games Cutler has started..

Also, I always felt Kelly was underrated as a QB..

yea it does level the playing field, it also stresses just how bad are defense needs to be fixed.....NOT THE OFFENSE...lol


its also puts this 17-20 record in perspective that everyone rags on cutler for. It is clear he is not the reason denver should worry about. In fact this is even further proof that defense is paramount at least on a average level.


16 times in his starts....people can argue turnovers and bad decisions all day, but that must mean the manning's, steve youngs, john elways, bradshaws, montannas, marinos, kelly's etc.....were poor qb's as well.....

DenBronx
03-29-2009, 06:29 AM
phil simms 0-20 against teams that scored 30 or more points. he ended up a champion winner when he got a defense. LT anyone??? greatest lb in history?

DenBronx
03-29-2009, 06:32 AM
cutler has only lost 7 games when our defense has kept teams under 30.

13 of his losses are when we couldnt stop the other team.

fcspikeit
03-29-2009, 04:08 PM
yea it does level the playing field, it also stresses just how bad are defense needs to be fixed.....NOT THE OFFENSE...lol


its also puts this 17-20 record in perspective that everyone rags on cutler for. It is clear he is not the reason denver should worry about. In fact this is even further proof that defense is paramount at least on a average level.


16 times in his starts....people can argue turnovers and bad decisions all day, but that must mean the manning's, steve youngs, john elways, bradshaws, montannas, marinos, kelly's etc.....were poor qb's as well.....


Check this site out... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1808


STEP 1: compute each quarterback’s winning percentage in each of six categories: (1) defense allows 0–10 points, (2) defense allows 11–15 points, (3) defense allows 16–20 points, (4) defense allows 21–25 points, (5) defense allows 26–33 points, and (6) defense allows 34+ points.

STEP 2: in each category, compute how many games that quarterback won compared to how many an average QB would have been expected to win.

STEP 3: sum up the QB’s wins above or below average, across all six categories.

Let’s run through Joe Namath as an example:

defense allows 0–10 points: Joe was the beneficiary of this kind of defensive performance 17 times. An average QB would be expected to win 15.9 of 17 games. Joe went 17-0. So he’s +1.1 wins.

defense allows 11–15 points: 18 games. Joe is 16-2. An average QB would win 13.7. So Joe is +2.3 here.

defense allows 16–20 points: 23 games. Joe is 13-10. An average QB would win 12.1. So Joe is +0.9.

defense allows 21–25 points: 25 games. Joe is 10-15. An average QB would win 9.7. So Joe is +0.3.

defense allows 26–33 points: 24 games. Joe is 6-18. An average QB would win 4.1. So Joe is +1.9.

defense allows 34+ points: 25 games. Joe is 2-23. An average QB would win 0.9. So Joe is +1.1.

Add it all up (and ignore the rounding error) and Namath comes out at +7.6. Do that for every quarterback who has started 50 or more games since 1950 and you get the following list. Lots of commentary and fine print below:

G W ExpW Diff
=========================================
Peyton Manning 191 124 92.8 +31.2
John Elway 252 162 134.5 +27.5
Tom Brady 128 101 73.9 +27.1
Brett Favre 291 181 154.7 +26.3
Dan Marino 258 155 129.8 +25.2
Joe Montana 187 133 109.1 +23.9
Ken Stabler 158 103 80.7 +22.3
Johnny Unitas 194 124 106.7 +17.3
Daryle Lamonica 97 70 53.1 +16.9
Jim Kelly 177 110 93.2 +16.8
Steve Young 157 102 85.8 +16.2
Roger Staubach 131 96 79.9 +16.1
Norm Van Brocklin 105 63 47.7 +15.3
Terry Bradshaw 177 121 106.3 +14.7
Dan Fouts 178 89 76.4 +12.6
Randall Cunningham 144 85 72.8 +12.2
Danny White 102 67 55.5 +11.5
Bobby Layne 139 83 71.6 +11.4
Kurt Warner 112 65 53.6 +11.4
Y.A. Tittle 139 78 66.8 +11.2
Frank Ryan 90 58 47.8 +10.2
Bill Nelsen 79 42 32.1 +9.9
Fran Tarkenton 250 130 120.1 +9.9
Otto Graham 78 61 51.3 +9.7
Stan Humphries 87 53 43.7 +9.3
Joe Theismann 132 83 74.3 +8.7
Jeff Hostetler 88 55 46.6 +8.4
Steve McNair 163 96 87.7 +8.3
Ben Roethlisberger 81 59 51.0 +8.0
Rich Gannon 139 80 72.3 +7.7
Steve Grogan 138 75 67.4 +7.6
Joe Namath 132 64 56.4 +7.6
Dave Krieg 184 101 93.6 +7.4
Drew Brees 109 56 48.7 +7.3
Matt Hasselbeck 112 62 54.8 +7.2
Bert Jones 99 47 40.1 +6.9
Jim Hart 182 87 80.1 +6.9
Trent Green 115 56 49.1 +6.9
Philip Rivers 54 36 29.2 +6.8
Jake Delhomme 89 55 48.2 +6.8
Marc Bulger 90 41 34.2 +6.8
Jay Schroeder 104 64 57.6 +6.4
Mark Rypien 85 52 45.6 +6.4
Eli Manning 78 46 39.8 +6.2
Ed Brown 98 55 49.1 +5.9
Charley Johnson 124 59 53.2 +5.8
Billy Kilmer 121 63 57.3 +5.7
John Brodie 164 76 70.6 +5.4
Don Meredith 89 49 43.7 +5.3
Warren Moon 213 105 100.2 +4.8
Brian Sipe 113 57 52.2 +4.8
Jack Kemp 111 67 62.4 +4.6
Jim Plunkett 154 80 75.4 +4.6
George Blanda 108 55 50.5 +4.5
Dan Pastorini 122 59 54.6 +4.4
Tony Eason 56 31 26.9 +4.1
Daunte Culpepper 99 43 38.9 +4.1
Bob Griese 162 98 94.1 +3.9
Sonny Jurgensen 149 69 65.1 +3.9
Troy Aikman 180 105 101.3 +3.7
Phil Simms 169 101 97.3 +3.7
Len Dawson 167 99 95.6 +3.4
Earl Morrall 108 67 63.6 +3.4
Neil Lomax 102 47 43.7 +3.3
Bart Starr 167 103 99.7 +3.3
David Woodley 58 37 33.8 +3.2
Boomer Esiason 178 83 79.8 +3.2
Jim Zorn 106 44 40.9 +3.1
Jim McMahon 103 70 66.9 +3.1
Michael Vick 71 40 36.9 +3.1
Jake Plummer 142 71 68.1 +2.9
Donovan McNabb 143 91 88.5 +2.5
Jeff Garcia 122 60 57.6 +2.4
Wade Wilson 74 38 35.6 +2.4
Charlie Conerly 92 58 55.7 +2.3
Marc Wilson 61 32 29.7 +2.3
Neil O'Donnell 107 58 55.7 +2.3
Brad Johnson 132 76 74.1 +1.9
Bobby Hebert 103 56 54.1 +1.9
Rodney Peete 89 46 44.2 +1.8
Brian Griese 83 45 43.3 +1.7
Mike Phipps 73 38 36.3 +1.7
Pat Haden 60 37 35.5 +1.5
Mike Tomczak 78 45 43.5 +1.5
Roman Gabriel 159 86 84.8 +1.2
Vince Ferragamo 59 30 28.8 +1.2
Babe Parilli 104 50 48.9 +1.1
Tom Flores 67 31 30.1 +0.9
Kordell Stewart 86 50 49.1 +0.9
Gus Frerotte 95 45 44.2 +0.8
Tobin Rote 119 51 50.2 +0.8
Elvis Grbac 73 41 40.2 +0.8
Carson Palmer 66 32 31.4 +0.6
Aaron Brooks 92 39 38.5 +0.5
Billy Wade 86 41 40.7 +0.3
Ken Anderson 178 93 92.7 +0.3
Craig Morton 154 86 85.8 +0.2
Doug Flutie 68 38 37.9 +0.1
John Hadl 169 82 82.0 +0.0
Jeff Blake 100 39 39.0 -0.0
Tommy Kramer 114 56 56.0 -0.0
Mark Brunell 160 83 83.1 -0.1
Erik Kramer 70 32 32.4 -0.4
Jay Fiedler 63 38 38.4 -0.4
Scott Mitchell 73 32 32.5 -0.5
Bernie Kosar 115 56 56.6 -0.6
Chad Pennington 83 45 45.8 -0.8
Don Majkowski 57 26 26.8 -0.8
Steve Bartkowski 131 60 60.9 -0.9
Bubby Brister 77 38 39.4 -1.4
Jon Kitna 116 46 47.5 -1.5
Richard Todd 112 50 51.5 -1.5
Milt Plum 103 56 57.9 -1.9
Chris Chandler 155 69 71.0 -2.0
Bob Avellini 51 23 25.8 -2.8
Gary Danielson 61 28 31.0 -3.0
Eric Hipple 58 28 31.1 -3.1
Ken O'Brien 112 50 53.2 -3.2
Jim Everett 158 66 69.3 -3.3
Bill Kenney 77 34 37.7 -3.7
Joe Kapp 52 26 29.8 -3.8
Jeff George 127 47 51.0 -4.0
Mark Malone 55 24 28.0 -4.0
Joe Ferguson 175 80 84.3 -4.3
Dave M. Brown 60 26 30.8 -4.8
Chris Miller 94 35 39.8 -4.8
Kerry Collins 171 82 86.9 -4.9
Mike Livingston 75 31 36.0 -5.0
Drew Bledsoe 199 101 106.1 -5.1
Greg Landry 99 44 49.1 -5.1
Eddie LeBaron 81 26 31.3 -5.3
Tim Couch 59 22 27.5 -5.5
Steve Beuerlein 104 48 53.6 -5.6
Cotton Davidson 54 20 25.7 -5.7
Lynn Dickey 113 46 51.7 -5.7
Rick Mirer 68 24 29.8 -5.8
Bob Berry 52 20 25.8 -5.8
Doug Williams 88 42 47.8 -5.8
Bill Munson 66 27 33.2 -6.2
Jim Harbaugh 145 68 74.7 -6.7
Bobby Douglass 53 16 22.8 -6.8
Trent Dilfer 119 63 69.8 -6.8
Mike Pagel 54 17 23.8 -6.8
Tony Banks 78 35 41.9 -6.9
Lamar McHan 73 24 31.0 -7.0
Steve DeBerg 144 54 61.2 -7.2
Ron Jaworski 151 77 86.4 -9.4
Norm Snead 158 52 61.6 -9.6
Joey Harrington 76 26 36.2 -10.2
David Carr 79 23 34.1 -11.1
Vinny Testaverde 219 92 103.4 -11.4
Archie Manning 139 35 52.4 -17.4


I was able to break his formula down with his Joe Namath example.

Here is how it works.

When the defense gives up 0 - 10 the QB should win 0.935 of the time.
When the defense gives up 11 - 15 the QB should win 0.761 of the time.
When the defense gives up 16 - 20 the QB should win 0.526 of the time.
When the defense gives up 21 - 25 the QB should win 0.388 of the time.
When the defense gives up 26 - 33 the QB should win 0.170 of the time.
When the defense gives up 34 + the QB should win 0.036 of the time.

So what you do is Times the total # of games in each group by the % in each group, then add them all together. Then subtract that from the total # of games actually won by the QB. If the QB is a + he is winning more then he should. If he is a -, he is losing more then he should..

How did Cutler add up? With this formula, Cutler should have won 12.159 of the 37 games he started. He actually won 17 so he won roughly 5 (4.841) more games then he should have been able to.

When you compare him to the others on the list, remember he has only played in 37 total games. Compared to Elway’s 252 and Manning’s 191. To put things in perspective, if we times Cutlers 37 by 6 = 222. Now times Cutler’s + 4.841 by 6, that = + 29.0..

The findings are clear. Cutler is winning more games then he should be able to win = He is a winner!

MOtorboat
03-29-2009, 04:16 PM
The findings are clear. Cutler is winning more games then he should be able to win = He is a winner!

Too bad he's also a whiner. :noidea:

fcspikeit
03-29-2009, 04:18 PM
Too bad he's also a whiner. :noidea:

Look down the list, you could find something negative to say about most everyone on there... :coffee:

MOtorboat
03-29-2009, 04:22 PM
Look down the list, you could find something negative to say about most everyone on there... :coffee:

I thought we were talking about the current situation.

BTW...our "winner" of a quarterback is 17-20.

Watchthemiddle
03-29-2009, 04:29 PM
For all of you stat guys....of the 30+ point games, how many of the 30 points came off of Cutler turnovers? Or when the offense goes 3 and out numerous times a game? How many of those 30+ point games came when our offense was close? Like a 35-33 or 32-30 game? Or were they blow outs because our offense didn't show up and turned the ball over.

That is more accurate than whats been posted.

I look forward to the outcome.

fcspikeit
03-29-2009, 04:31 PM
I thought we were talking about the current situation.

BTW...our "winner" of a quarterback is 17-20.

:lol:

So your not willing to figure in everything that goes with the overall record and compare what Cutler has done with every other QB who has played the game?

MOtorboat
03-29-2009, 04:36 PM
:lol:

So your not willing to figure in everything that goes with the overall record and compare what Cutler has done with every other QB who has played the game?

Are you willing to admit that he did turn the ball over repeatedly, made bad decisions repeatedly and almost by himself handed games to several teams last year, resulting in his coach getting fired, his coordinator getting fired and a new coach being hired?

Can you see it from another perspective? I can. I can see where McDaniels made a few mistakes. Minor ones, be it, but a few mistakes, while Cutler has cried to the media and acted like a primadonna, nonetheless...but I guess the player is always right, no?

Watchthemiddle
03-29-2009, 04:37 PM
:lol:

So your not willing to figure in everything that goes with the overall record and compare what Cutler has done with every other QB who has played the game?

If we need to figure in everything that goes with the overall record, than you or someone needs to figure in RECORDS of QB's when the D gives up 30+ points a game. See my post above. How many of those 30+ points are the offense's fault...ie: turnovers, three and outs, only scoring 10 points a game....etc.

thanks

fcspikeit
03-29-2009, 04:44 PM
Check this site out... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1808



I was able to break his formula down with his Joe Namath example.

Here is how it works.

When the defense gives up 0 - 10 the QB should win 0.935 of the time.
When the defense gives up 11 - 15 the QB should win 0.761 of the time.
When the defense gives up 16 - 20 the QB should win 0.526 of the time.
When the defense gives up 21 - 25 the QB should win 0.388 of the time.
When the defense gives up 26 - 33 the QB should win 0.170 of the time.
When the defense gives up 34 + the QB should win 0.036 of the time.

So what you do is Times the total # of games in each group by the % in each group, then add them all together. Then subtract that from the total # of games actually won by the QB. If the QB is a + he is winning more then he should. If he is a -, he is losing more then he should..

How did Cutler add up? With this formula, Cutler should have won 12.159 of the 37 games he started. He actually won 17 so he won roughly 5 (4.841) more games then he should have been able to.

When you compare him to the others on the list, remember he has only played in 37 total games. Compared to Elway’s 252 and Manning’s 191. To put things in perspective, if we times Cutlers 37 by 6 = 222. Now times Cutler’s + 4.841 by 6, that = + 29.0..

The findings are clear. Cutler is winning more games then he should be able to win = He is a winner!

Also, using this formula, with the average NFL QB the Broncos should have won just under 5 games last year (4.8). So with Cutler under center, the Broncos won 3 more games last year over what the average NFL QB would be expected to win.

fcspikeit
03-29-2009, 04:48 PM
Are you willing to admit that he did turn the ball over repeatedly, made bad decisions repeatedly and almost by himself handed games to several teams last year, resulting in his coach getting fired, his coordinator getting fired and a new coach being hired?

Can you see it from another perspective? I can. I can see where McDaniels made a few mistakes. Minor ones, be it, but a few mistakes, while Cutler has cried to the media and acted like a primadonna, nonetheless...but I guess the player is always right, no?

I will admit Cutler turned the ball over more then I would have liked, and I will admit he had a couple bad games as well. However, that is the same of a lot of good QB's. When you compare what he has been able to do, he stacks up well with the best of all time.

When you consider we are comparing Cutler's first 3 years against the best of all time all the way through their prime. What Cutler has done is even more impressive..

Watchthemiddle
03-29-2009, 04:52 PM
I wonder how many QB's with losing records are in the HOF because their D gave up 30+ points a game?






















NONE!!!


Because in the end, its about winning. If Cutler finishes his career say 165-192...will he get into the HOF with a * next to his name? No.

MOtorboat
03-29-2009, 04:55 PM
I will admit Cutler turned the ball over more then I would have liked, and I will admit he had a couple bad games as well. However, that is the same of a lot of good QB's. When you compare what he has been able to do, he stacks up well with the best of all time.

When you consider we are comparing Cutler's first 3 years against the best of all time all the way through their prime. What Cutler has done is even more impressive..

I'm sorry, but if you're not willing to understand that Cutler was part of the problem, then I will leave this debate. Because the debate is worthless.

DenBronx
03-29-2009, 05:05 PM
I wonder how many QB's with losing records are in the HOF because their D gave up 30+ points a game?






















NONE!!!


Because in the end, its about winning. If Cutler finishes his career say 165-192...will he get into the HOF with a * next to his name? No.


no one said cutler is a hof qb right now. maybe when its all said and he he will be but how many qbs get in the hof in just their 1st 3 years in the league.

one thing he is right now though is a pro bowler and being a pro bowler is the first step in becomming a hofer.

fcspikeit
03-29-2009, 07:33 PM
I'm sorry, but if you're not willing to understand that Cutler was part of the problem, then I will leave this debate. Because the debate is worthless.

Well of course Cutler helped take this to where it is now. I surely has a hand in coming to the conclusion he can't trust McDaniels..

The problem is I agree with him that McDaniels seems to be undervaluing him. I don't think McDaniels should have taken the call.. I don't see losing Cutler being an improvement for the team. Therefore I can see why he is upset..

I guess there can always be a good enough offer one would have to at least consider.. But I haven't seen anything close to what that offer would have to be for me to agree it is close to equaling Cutlers value..

fcspikeit
03-29-2009, 07:35 PM
no one said cutler is a hof qb right now. maybe when its all said and he he will be but how many qbs get in the hof in just their 1st 3 years in the league.

one thing he is right now though is a pro bowler and being a pro bowler is the first step in becomming a hofer.

Well having a losing record is one of the things that comes with playing for a shitty team..

We wont win a lot of games with the defense we had. Maybe that's why Shanahan got fired? :laugh:

MOtorboat
03-29-2009, 07:35 PM
Well of course Cutler helped take this to where it is now. I surely has a hand in coming to the conclusion he can't trust McDaniels..

The problem is I agree with him that McDaniels seems to be undervaluing him. I don't think McDaniels should have taken the call.. I don't see losing Cutler being an improvement for the team. Therefore I can see why he is upset..

I guess there can always be a good enough offer one would have to at least consider.. But I haven't seen anything close to what that offer would have to be for me to agree it is close to equaling Cutlers value..

If the front office doesn't take the call they aren't doing their job.

Out of curiosity, what is Cutler's value?

Watchthemiddle
03-29-2009, 08:23 PM
Well having a losing record is one of the things that comes with playing for a shitty team..

We wont win a lot of games with the defense we had. Maybe that's why Shanahan got fired? :laugh:

Yup D was a problem, but in the 8 games we lost our "potent" Cutler led offense only averaged a measly 15.5 PPG. I would be pissed if I was on the Defense and this beloved offense only scored 15.5 ppg.

Lonestar
03-29-2009, 08:39 PM
Are you willing to admit that he did turn the ball over repeatedly, made bad decisions repeatedly and almost by himself handed games to several teams last year, resulting in his coach getting fired, his coordinator getting fired and a new coach being hired?

Can you see it from another perspective? I can. I can see where McDaniels made a few mistakes. Minor ones, be it, but a few mistakes, while Cutler has cried to the media and acted like a primadonna, nonetheless...but I guess the player is always right, no?



thanks for brining that one up the SAN game was a GIFT folks on the pick by champ and the call by houckli..

SAN fans were right that one was stolen and later in the year their team proved that it was..

Elevation inc
03-30-2009, 02:38 AM
I thought we were talking about the current situation.

BTW...our "winner" of a quarterback is 17-20.

i have already proved why that is...do we really need to delve into it again....:confused:

Elevation inc
03-30-2009, 02:40 AM
For all of you stat guys....of the 30+ point games, how many of the 30 points came off of Cutler turnovers? Or when the offense goes 3 and out numerous times a game? How many of those 30+ point games came when our offense was close? Like a 35-33 or 32-30 game? Or were they blow outs because our offense didn't show up and turned the ball over.

That is more accurate than whats been posted.

I look forward to the outcome.

this 3 and out stat is garbage that actually didnt happen as much as you would like to think.....we would sustain drives for quite awhile.....and as far as turnovers even if we discount seven points from each game the defense gave up 30 plus points we are still eft with every game in which the defense gave up over 25 points per game....do i need to break that down as well....

i can tell ya the difference isnt as much as you would like to think.......


but wait better yet lets add in the games where the otehr team scored over 40 points....should we go there as well......

Den21vsBal19
03-30-2009, 03:45 AM
Yeah, we managed to sustain drives, but were pretty shoddy when it came to finishing them :tsk:

Elevation inc
03-30-2009, 05:04 AM
Yeah, we managed to sustain drives, but were pretty shoddy when it came to finishing them :tsk:

a poor run game and lack of good playcalling was the reason. if you really think about it bates usually called a pass so much the defense knew what to expect......it was very obvious to me wehn we got in the redzone what was coming and i was sitting on the couch at my own house.....


bates was not nearly as effective a playcaller as some belive. he relied to much on backyard aring it out football. some can blame the individual runners, but in reality there were many times where even are scrub backs could have gotten the 2 yds neccessary instread of a bubble screen for a loss.


people are using the 7 RB injuries a little to much for my liking....we didnt finish most of our drives, because the defense new what was coming and our playcaller certainly didnt dissapoint.


one thing i do like that MCD brings is his playcalling, he was quite versatile with it last year, that is something im excited for. they still chose to run the ball on run downs even when they had there 4th string RB starting.....and it actually would pay off.....

I personally am glad bates is gone and MCD's playcalling abilites replaced him. That is one area MCD is not only roven to be effective in, its an area that proves to be quite versatile in keeping defense honest, which in the long run will help cutler become a better QB...


just some more thoughts i guess....:D

Den21vsBal19
03-30-2009, 07:01 AM
I'm not going to disagree in general, our red zone running game has been poor for a couple of years now, and some of the play coalling was definitely :confused:

However bad decision making by Jay also greatly contributed to our failures

claymore
03-30-2009, 07:05 AM
I'm not going to disagree in general, our red zone running game has been poor for a couple of years now, and some of the play coalling was definitely :confused:

However bad decision making by Jay also greatly contributed to our failures

Heaven forbid a young QB makes a mistake.

Elevation inc
03-30-2009, 07:07 AM
I'm not going to disagree in general, our red zone running game has been poor for a couple of years now, and some of the play coalling was definitely :confused:

However bad decision making by Jay also greatly contributed to our failures


i'll agree in part , but it could be directly related to playcalling. remeber jay didnt have full power to audible yet...bates was pass happy as hell down there when he didnt need to be, had we run the ball we wouldnt be down on cutler right now for forcing things, he forced a throw called by the playcaller and the d already knew what was coming. we did not keep defenses honest and i am certain that played a part in some of of jay and his decisions to force things especially when we were already down 15 plus points....

TXBRONC
03-30-2009, 01:39 PM
Yeah, we managed to sustain drives, but were pretty shoddy when it came to finishing them :tsk:

When you're starting field position is one of the worst in the League due to poor special teams and defense that could 11 grandmas in power chairs that sure doesn't help.