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Broncos Mtnman
03-03-2012, 12:26 AM
I didn't see this anywhere. If it's already been covered, sorry 'bout that.....

__________________________________________________ ______________

DENVER — There is a rumor that the Denver Broncos might be willing to trade quarterback Tim Tebow to get one of the best QBs in the upcoming draft.

True or not, the rumor around the NFL is that the Broncos are the “mystery team” that is trying to move up in the draft to acquire Robert Griffin III, the flashy quarterback from Baylor University.

Source FOX 31 News - read the rest here..... (http://kdvr.com/2012/03/02/tim-tebow-trade-rumors-swirl-around-denver-nfl/)

BeefStew25
03-03-2012, 12:28 AM
The Internet would shoot protein all over my heaving chest if that happens.

camdisco24
03-03-2012, 12:52 AM
One project for another project? Pass...

I'll take Tebow's experience over RGIII's questions marks at this point.

BroncoNut
03-03-2012, 12:56 AM
rumors rumors rumors. boy. when is the draft anyway?

RebelRocker
03-03-2012, 12:58 AM
I didn't see this anywhere. If it's already been covered, sorry 'bout that.....

__________________________________________________ ______________

DENVER — There is a rumor that the Denver Broncos might be willing to trade quarterback Tim Tebow to get one of the best QBs in the upcoming draft.

True or not, the rumor around the NFL is that the Broncos are the “mystery team” that is trying to move up in the draft to acquire Robert Griffin III, the flashy quarterback from Baylor University.

Source FOX 31 News - read the rest here..... (http://kdvr.com/2012/03/02/tim-tebow-trade-rumors-swirl-around-denver-nfl/)



Was Klis dropped on his head when he was a child? I understand we have to give up a lot for that pick, but why would he include our best defensive player? There's NO way we'd give up Miller.

Fortunately for us, Klis is never right when regarding the Broncos.

OrangeHoof
03-03-2012, 01:00 AM
It's a stupid rumor because there are only two QBs one could foresee as being worth the gamble - Luck and Griffin, who will probably go 1-2. So tell me how the Broncos, sitting at #25, will get that high in the draft? Would you be willing to trade Tebow, #25, next year's #1 and Von Miller to the Rams to get #2 and take Griffin? Plus, what would the Rams do with Tebow if they already have Bradford?

If anyone else trades with the Rams, THEY will do so to take Griffin so there's no reason they would want to trade him for Tebow.

It's a rumor that, on it's surface, makes no sense any more than Mitt Romney dropping out to endorse Ron Paul.

Buff
03-03-2012, 01:05 AM
Was Klis dropped on his head when he was a child? I understand we have to give up a lot for that pick, but why would he include our best defensive player? There's NO way we'd give up Miller.

Fortunately for us, Klis is never right when regarding the Broncos.

Klis knows we're not giving up Miller. His whole point was that there is no chance EFX would consider mortgaging the future to get into one of those top 2 slots. And since the asking price would be so high, we can pretty much rule it out.

BroncoNut
03-03-2012, 01:07 AM
Klis knows we're not giving up Miller. His whole point was that there is no chance EFX would consider mortgaging the future to get into one of those top 2 slots. And since the asking price would be so high, we can pretty much rule it out.

how do you guys know all of this shit. How do you get into these guys heads? serioiulsy?

dogfish
03-03-2012, 01:24 AM
baha! keep hope alive, mtn. . .

dogfish
03-03-2012, 01:45 AM
seriously, you should just look at tebow as penance for all that gloating you did when we drafted cutler. . . :laugh:

BroncoWave
03-03-2012, 01:55 AM
I actually wouldn't be against this if we could do it without sacrificing Miller, but including him would obviously be a dealbreaker.

Magnificent Seven
03-03-2012, 03:34 AM
It won't gonna happen. John Elway cherishes Tim Tebow. Coach Fox cherishes Von Miller.

RebelRocker
03-03-2012, 04:47 AM
It won't gonna happen. John Elway cherishes Tim Tebow. Coach Fox cherishes Von Miller.

.........................Ok then...............................:shocked:

Lancane
03-03-2012, 05:11 AM
It won't gonna happen. John Elway cherishes Tim Tebow. Coach Fox cherishes Von Miller.

More like John Elway and John Fox cherish Miller, and neither really cherishes Tebow, they have high hopes for him and cherish some of the tangibles he brings to the table, but don't fool yourself...they wouldn't trade his ass in a heartbeat if it would land them a legit quarterback. That's just the nature of the sport and of the business.

Lancane
03-03-2012, 05:13 AM
seriously, you should just look at tebow as penance for all that gloating you did when we drafted cutler. . . :laugh:

At least Cutler could throw the ball accurately more the half of the time, Tebow struggles to hit the broadside of a barn even less.

;)

Canmore
03-03-2012, 05:35 AM
More like John Elway and John Fox cherish Miller, and neither really cherishes Tebow, they have high hopes for him and cherish some of the tangibles he brings to the table, but don't fool yourself...they wouldn't trade his ass in a heartbeat if it would land them a legit quarterback. That's just the nature of the sport and of the business.

If the right deal presented itself, I don't think Fox or Elway would hesitate a minute. Problem is where is this deal going to come from. Miller isn't going anywhere. Who is the legit quarterback. Sounds like a pipe dream generated at Bleacher Report.

Lancane
03-03-2012, 06:06 AM
If the right deal presented itself, I don't think Fox or Elway would hesitate a minute. Problem is where is this deal going to come from. Miller isn't going anywhere. Who is the legit quarterback. Sounds like a pipe dream generated at Bleacher Report.

I'm not giving any credence to the report Can, simply retorting Mag's post that Elway cherishes Tebow, which is completely unfounded. I don't see how Denver could pull it off, and is likely as you called it, a pipe dream.

Canmore
03-03-2012, 06:20 AM
I'm not giving any credence to the report Can, simply retorting Mag's post that Elway cherishes Tebow, which is completely unfounded. I don't see how Denver could pull it off, and is likely as you called it, a pipe dream.

No I don't think John cherishes Tebow. I do think he respects him as a competitor though, but that is about as far as it goes. If a deal came along for Tim, I believe that EFX will look long and hard.

sneakers
03-03-2012, 06:55 AM
I believe the internet.

http://www.timecube.com/

Northman
03-03-2012, 07:02 AM
While it wouldnt be unheard of for Denver to trade a high profile QB (See Cutler) doing so just so you could try to land Luck or Griffin would be not only a very costly move but a moronic one at this juncture. Certainly would not be worth it too trade Miller at ALL. The only way i could see it working is if Denver tried to go after Mallet in NE but even then i sure as hell wouldnt want to be snookered into giving a lot up to do that. In all honesty this is probably much ado about nothing. Trading Tebow would make Elway and company look just as bad as that liar McDaniels at this point.

Shazam!
03-03-2012, 07:55 AM
This is complete fabricated bull!@#$.

NO WAY does Denver management trade it's starting QB twice in 5 years.

...and Miller too?? Riiiiiight.

catfish
03-03-2012, 08:02 AM
Was Klis dropped on his head when he was a child? I understand we have to give up a lot for that pick, but why would he include our best defensive player? There's NO way we'd give up Miller.

Fortunately for us, Klis is never right when regarding the Broncos.

I doubt they actually do the trade, the only reason they mention Miller is that he would be the only guy on the team that would make the deal even possible. I heard the interview with the Rams GM on NFL radio, they are looking for 3-5 1st round picks. All this media stuff is because of the"mystery team" that s in the hunt. The GM says you would never guess who it is, I would think it is a team like the Jets or the Pats.

Npba900
03-03-2012, 08:07 AM
I didn't see this anywhere. If it's already been covered, sorry 'bout that.....

__________________________________________________ ______________

DENVER — There is a rumor that the Denver Broncos might be willing to trade quarterback Tim Tebow to get one of the best QBs in the upcoming draft.

True or not, the rumor around the NFL is that the Broncos are the “mystery team” that is trying to move up in the draft to acquire Robert Griffin III, the flashy quarterback from Baylor University.

Source FOX 31 News - read the rest here..... (http://kdvr.com/2012/03/02/tim-tebow-trade-rumors-swirl-around-denver-nfl/)

Man if this is true I'm a bit disappointed. I was hoping Elway could somehow keep Tebow to turn him into a Tight End!

Oh well the first NFL team that can convince Tebow to switch to TE will have themselves a pro bowl tight end.

Deep down EFX know they are lying to themselves if they believe Tebow will ever become an elite top 10 to a good top 15 pocket passing QB.

Npba900
03-03-2012, 08:14 AM
It's a stupid rumor because there are only two QBs one could foresee as being worth the gamble - Luck and Griffin, who will probably go 1-2. So tell me how the Broncos, sitting at #25, will get that high in the draft? Would you be willing to trade Tebow, #25, next year's #1 and Von Miller to the Rams to get #2 and take Griffin? Plus, what would the Rams do with Tebow if they already have Bradford?

If anyone else trades with the Rams, THEY will do so to take Griffin so there's no reason they would want to trade him for Tebow.

It's a rumor that, on it's surface, makes no sense any more than Mitt Romney dropping out to endorse Ron Paul.

The Rams would turn Tebow into a Tight End or Fullback or Backup QB!!!!!

Question is out of the 31 NFL teams out there how many covet Tebow as their answer or long-term franchise QB????

capt. Jack
03-03-2012, 08:19 AM
There could be some truth to this but it would not be for RG III , But for Luck!!! Elway is slobbering & drooling at the mere thought of getting Luck! 2 firsts 1 second & a couple more lower picks should do it. They want a pocket passer.

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catfish
03-03-2012, 08:20 AM
There could be some truth to this but it would not be for RG III , But for Luck!!! Elway is slobbering & drooling at the mere thought of getting Luck! 2 firsts 1 second & a couple more lower picks should do it. They want a pocket passer.

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I haven't heard any reports that Indy is willing to deal at all

capt. Jack
03-03-2012, 08:22 AM
I haven't heard any reports that Indy is willing to deal at all

Smoke screen to get more picks!!! We will see if they let Manning go, then they will take Luck no question!

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Npba900
03-03-2012, 08:26 AM
There could be some truth to this but it would not be for RG III , But for Luck!!! Elway is slobbering & drooling at the mere thought of getting Luck! 2 firsts 1 second & a couple more lower picks should do it. They want a pocket passer.

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To get Luck, Elway would have to offer up 2-3 first round draft choices, Miller, and Tebow. Since Pat Bowlen is on auto-pilot I don't see why Elway wouldn't try to pull it off.

Elway will do almost anything not to have the polarizing Tebow circus to deal with in Denver.

Northman
03-03-2012, 08:30 AM
To get Luck, Elway would have to offer up 2-3 first round draft choices, Miller, and Tebow. Since Pat Bowlen is on auto-pilot I don't see why Elway wouldn't try to pull it off.

Elway will do almost anything not to have the polarizing Tebow circus to deal with in Denver.

Lol, yea right.

Dont kid yourself. If Elway did that he would automatically make himself a pariah in Denver. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

capt. Jack
03-03-2012, 08:36 AM
Well I don't see us giving up Miller he is one of our best! I was just thinking it was possible? 3 firsts would be ok if we got a #1 for Tebow! 5 or 6 picks for Luck.

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BroncoNut
03-03-2012, 08:42 AM
Well I don't see us giving up Miller he is one of our best! I was just thinking it was possible? 3 firsts would be ok if we got a #1 for Tebow! 5 or 6 picks for Luck.

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no, you said it. don't try to pretend that you didn't. You hate Von Miller and I hate you

capt. Jack
03-03-2012, 08:46 AM
no, you said it. don't try to pretend that you didn't. You hate Von Miller and I hate you

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? "HATRED IS THE ONLY THING THAT LASTS FOREVER" RDD

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chazoe60
03-03-2012, 08:48 AM
I'd like to see us trade Miller to move up in the second and grab Weeden.

capt. Jack
03-03-2012, 08:49 AM
no, you said it. don't try to pretend that you didn't. You hate Von Miller and I hate you

I never said anything of that sort of thing, are you putting words in my mouth?

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claymore
03-03-2012, 08:50 AM
While it wouldnt be unheard of for Denver to trade a high profile QB (See Cutler) doing so just so you could try to land Luck or Griffin would be not only a very costly move but a moronic one at this juncture. Certainly would not be worth it too trade Miller at ALL. The only way i could see it working is if Denver tried to go after Mallet in NE but even then i sure as hell wouldnt want to be snookered into giving a lot up to do that. In all honesty this is probably much ado about nothing. Trading Tebow would make Elway and company look just as bad as that liar McDaniels at this point.

The real problem with the trade is that Tebow has zero trade value. I doubt any team wants the project, and the drama that ensues.

We dont have any pro bowl players of any trade value outside of Miller, Champ, Doom, and Clady...

RG3 Intrigues me if we owned the pick outright, but I dont want to mortgage the little stuff we do have unless its luck.

Shazam!
03-03-2012, 08:56 AM
The real problem with the trade is that Tebow has zero trade value. I doubt any team wants the project, and the drama that ensues.

Ooooh please Clay with your Tebow hate, OF COURSE he has trade value.

Miami and Jax are the two obvious suitors for Tebow. He's a god in the area. All that matters is he'll put asses in the seats for two QB-starved teams.

No matter, Tebow ain't goin' anywhere. You're stuck with him.

silkamilkamonico
03-03-2012, 08:57 AM
the rams arent trading for tebow, especially with bradford. that is just stupid football ignorance.

there, ive killed this trade "rumor". lets all move along now.

catfish
03-03-2012, 08:57 AM
The real problem with the trade is that Tebow has zero trade value. I doubt any team wants the project, and the drama that ensues.

We dont have any pro bowl players of any trade value outside of Miller, Champ, Doom, and Clady...

RG3 Intrigues me if we owned the pick outright, but I dont want to mortgage the little stuff we do have unless its luck.

agreed, and make no mistake, the team that moves up will have basically no draft for the next 3 years. The Rams know they have a goldmine, they aren't taking less than 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders

catfish
03-03-2012, 08:58 AM
the rams arent trading for tebow, especially with bradford. that is just stupid football ignorance.

there, ive killed this trade "rumor". lets all move along now.

I have heard trading Tebow to Jax for a 1st, then packaging that 1st with the 25th pick, this years 2nd, next years first and second as an option

capt. Jack
03-03-2012, 09:01 AM
I have heard trading Tebow to Jax for a 1st, then packaging that 1st with the 25th pick, this years 2nd, next years first and second as an option

I was thinking something along those lines!

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BroncoNut
03-03-2012, 09:10 AM
I never said anything of that sort of thing, are you putting words in my mouth?

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no, jsut kidding around

Dzone
03-03-2012, 09:16 AM
That would be the absolute most stupid move this franchise could ever possibly make.The empty seats at Mile High would outnumber the people in the stadium. We would be 2-14 and watching Tebow lead some other team to the super bowl. Talk about feeling crappy.

This is a slow time of year for sportswriters, so they have to say something idiotic in order to garner some attention for themselves

capt. Jack
03-03-2012, 09:21 AM
no, jsut kidding around

Good deal! I didn't want to get in trouble like I did over on the other board,I promised I would behave myself over here! :-)

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claymore
03-03-2012, 09:25 AM
Ooooh please Clay with your Tebow hate, OF COURSE he has trade value.

Miami and Jax are the two obvious suitors for Tebow. He's a god in the area. All that matters is he'll put asses in the seats for two QB-starved teams.

No matter, Tebow ain't goin' anywhere. You're stuck with him.

Its not Tebow hate. Its realisim. Some out there evaluate qb's on their performance. He has the same trade value, maybe less than Orton did after his whirwind 8-8 season.

claymore
03-03-2012, 09:26 AM
That would be the absolute most stupid move this franchise could ever possibly make.The empty seats at Mile High would outnumber the people in the stadium. We would be 2-14 and watching Tebow lead some other team to the super bowl. Talk about feeling crappy.

This is a slow time of year for sportswriters, so they have to say something idiotic in order to garner some attention for themselves

We will be 2-14 alright. I think Tebow will be well entrenched as the starter for the first part of that season though!:laugh:

Nomad
03-03-2012, 09:27 AM
I actually wouldn't be against this if we could do it without sacrificing Miller, but including him would obviously be a dealbreaker.

I realize this is all jibberish BUT I still have hope Tebow turns out to be a great QB for the BRONCOS but if they feel they want to go seperate ways then so be it, but if they would trade away Miller then I would hand in my BRONCO fan card....they're on the right track building this defense.

topscribe
03-03-2012, 09:34 AM
seriously, you should just look at tebow as penance for all that gloating you did when we drafted cutler. . . :laugh:

Trouble is, he was right about that gloating. Those who gloated when the
Broncos hired McDaniels are the ones who should be doing penance . . .

-----

claymore
03-03-2012, 09:40 AM
I realize this is all jibberish BUT I still have hope Tebow turns out to be a great QB for the BRONCOS but if they feel they want to go seperate ways then so be it, but if they would trade away Miller then I would hand in my BRONCO fan card....they're on the right track building this defense.

That would be a hard pill to swallow. Ive swalloed bigger loads before. :pause: With the cutler trade.

MOtorboat
03-03-2012, 10:16 AM
:listen: :eek: :confused: :elefant:


:rolleyes:

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 10:26 AM
So nobody likes my idea of trading Miller to move up in the second and grab Weeden?

Northman
03-03-2012, 10:27 AM
So nobody likes my idea of trading Miller to move up in the second and grab Weeden?

Not really. I would much rather trade Miller and grab a 7th round pick to pick up a FQB.

BORDERLINE
03-03-2012, 11:04 AM
Din't read this article.

But Brandon Spano put a link from some dude on his twitter. It said the Broncos would trade Tebow to Jacksonville and their first rounder to move up to the 7th overall pick. Then The Broncos would ship Miller and next years 1st and the 7th overall pick to move up to 2nd overall to draft RG3.

This dude was shooting up the good stuff when He came up with this. But since some of you badly want a FQB that can win games(like the one we have doesn't). Give it a shot "A FQB isn't cheap and they don't grow on trees"(except the Manning Family).

Northman
03-03-2012, 11:08 AM
Din't read this article.

But Brandon Spano put a link from some dude on his twitter. It said the Broncos would trade Tebow to Jacksonville and their first rounder to move up to the 7th overall pick. Then The Broncos would ship Miller and next years 1st and the 7th overall pick to move up to 2nd overall to draft RG3.

This dude was shooting up the good stuff when He came up with this. But since some of you badly want a FQB that can win games(like the one we have doesn't). Give it a shot "A FQB isn't cheap and they don't grow on trees"(except the Manning Family).

Border, you look pissed in your avy man. lol

Nomad
03-03-2012, 11:11 AM
Border, you look pissed in your avy man. lol

No offense to Border.......but he kinda looks like Ice Cube. just not as dark:lol:

slim
03-03-2012, 11:21 AM
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. It makes no sense, on any level.

Now, if the target was Luck, it would at least make some sense. I guess.

Chef Zambini
03-03-2012, 11:21 AM
One project for another project? Pass...

I'll take Tebow's experience over RGIII's questions marks at this point.thewn you are blinded by things other than football skill !
RGIII is a superior QB talent over tebow!
experience? are you joking! I bet you have posted at least about a dozen times that tebow suffered from no pre-season, didnt you?
yet cam newton and otyhers have shown they could perform much better than timmy with similar or LESS training ! tebows "experience' cant hold a candle to Rg III's skill !
please people, this aint a popularity contest, we did that last year !

Chef Zambini
03-03-2012, 11:23 AM
Din't read this article.

But Brandon Spano put a link from some dude on his twitter. It said the Broncos would trade Tebow to Jacksonville and their first rounder to move up to the 7th overall pick. Then The Broncos would ship Miller and next years 1st and the 7th overall pick to move up to 2nd overall to draft RG3.

This dude was shooting up the good stuff when He came up with this. But since some of you badly want a FQB that can win games(like the one we have doesn't). Give it a shot "A FQB isn't cheap and they don't grow on trees"(except the Manning Family).
I started this rumor when I suggested it in NOVEMBER !

MOtorboat
03-03-2012, 11:25 AM
I started this rumor when I suggested it in NOVEMBER !

LMFAO!

:ego:

BORDERLINE
03-03-2012, 11:26 AM
Border, you look pissed in your avy man. lol

I'm MAD at all this TEBOW trade talk.

THat and I don't have a COLGATE smile.:tsk:

BORDERLINE
03-03-2012, 11:27 AM
No offense to Border.......but he kinda looks like Ice Cube. just not as dark:lol:

I once saw my name on the GOODYEAR BLIMP.

It read: BORDERLINE IS A PIMP

so I see similarities as well............

Chef Zambini
03-03-2012, 11:29 AM
That would be the absolute most stupid move this franchise could ever possibly make.The empty seats at Mile High would outnumber the people in the stadium. We would be 2-14 and watching Tebow lead some other team to the super bowl. Talk about feeling crappy.

This is a slow time of year for sportswriters, so they have to say something idiotic in order to garner some attention for themselvesnext year, whatever team RGIIIplays for, he will have twice the TDs and half the turnovers that tebow will have !
RG II is that good and tebow is that bad.
sorry to smack some of you in the face with REALITY !
..and it also seems like some of you cant get behind the idea of a black face being the face of our franchise QB !
Tebow would be ashamed of you !

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 11:29 AM
Not really. I would much rather trade Miller and grab a 7th round pick to pick up a FQB.

Let's just release Clady and Miller and use the money we save to lure Jeff Garcia out of retirement. :championship:

Lancane
03-03-2012, 11:35 AM
I can't believe that anyone would believe this has any validity, even though I'm not a Tebow fan and I think he is the sorriest passing quarterback in the NFL, the mere suggestion in accordance to the value of the trade is asinine. I could see us trading Tebow to maybe secure a position to nab Tannehill, but to move all the way up to the second pick in terms of what the team would have to give up?, and if it did happen I would be pissed, not upset but literally pissed.

silkamilkamonico
03-03-2012, 11:35 AM
That would be the absolute most stupid move this franchise could ever possibly make.The empty seats at Mile High would outnumber the people in the stadium. We would be 2-14 and watching Tebow lead some other team to the super bowl. Talk about feeling crappy.

This is a slow time of year for sportswriters, so they have to say something idiotic in order to garner some attention for themselvesnext year, whatever team RGIIIplays for, he will have twice the TDs and half the turnovers that tebow will have !
RG II is that good and tebow is that bad.
sorry to smack some of you in the face with REALITY !
..and it also seems like some of you cant get behind the idea of a black face being the face of our franchise QB !
Tebow would be ashamed of you !

these unsubstantiated arguments have absolutely no basis or weight anymore.

Lets see....

Tebow wont get drafted......oops
Tebow wont ever start......oops
Tebow wont ever win......oops
Tebow wont ever have a winning record.....oops
Tebow wont ever make the playoffs.....oops
Tebow will bever win a playoff game......oops

Feel free to argue against Tebow. I will continue to so myself. But use legitimate arguments instread of baseless arguments that continue to make yourself look like a fool in this debate.

Lancane
03-03-2012, 11:38 AM
these unsubstantiated arguments have absolutely no basis or weight anymore.

Lets see....

Tebow wont get drafted......oops
Tebow wont ever start......oops
Tebow wont ever win......oops
Tebow wont ever have a winning record.....oops
Tebow wont ever make the playoffs.....oops
Tebow will bever win a playoff game......oops

Feel free to argue against Tebow. I will continue to so myself. But use legitimate arguments instread of baseless arguments that continue to make yourself look like a fool in this debate.

You mean like Tebow couldn't throw an accurate pass to a cow standing still and alone in a pasture?

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 11:39 AM
next year, whatever team RGIIIplays for, he will have twice the TDs and half the turnovers that tebow will have !
RG II is that good and tebow is that bad.
sorry to smack some of you in the face with REALITY !
..and it also seems like some of you cant get behind the idea of a black face being the face of our franchise QB !
Tebow would be ashamed of you !
Nice assumption. Come on man.

Many people here, including myself, would love to see RGIII in a Bronco uni, but not at the expense of the next three drafts. And certainly not at the expense of losing Miller.

Also if you do just a little extrapolating of Tebow's numbers then you are claiming that RGIII's numbers will be in the neighborhood of 32 tds and 5 ints. Really, think he'll be hat good as a rookie. That's with me figuring Tebow through 16 games will be at 15 tds and 10 ints, which is a conservative guess based on his 11.5 games played last season (not including playoffs).

Edit: I see now you said turnovers not just ints. I still think you're way off base. RGIII likes to run also and he'll have some fumbles also

slim
03-03-2012, 11:39 AM
I can't believe that anyone would believe this has any validity, even though I'm not a Tebow fan and I think he is the sorriest passing quarterback in the NFL, the mere suggestion in accordance to the value of the trade is asinine. I could see us trading Tebow to maybe secure a position to nab Tannehill, but to move all the way up to the second pick in terms of what the team would have to give up?, and if it did happen I would be pissed, not upset but literally pissed.

I agree, Lan.

Elway has said from day one that they are going to build through the draft.

Now we are supposed to believe they are going to flush 2 drafts down the toilet to take a chance on RGIII (who is the classic boom or bust player, IMO).

Ridiculous.

Nomad
03-03-2012, 11:46 AM
I agree, Lan.

Elway has said from day one that they are going to build through the draft.

Now we are supposed to believe they are going to flush 2 drafts down the toilet to take a chance on RGIII (who is the classic boom or bust player, IMO).

Ridiculous.

Elway doesn't need it anymore.....he could throw in his left nut as well.:D RGIII.....FTW!!

silkamilkamonico
03-03-2012, 11:48 AM
these unsubstantiated arguments have absolutely no basis or weight anymore.

Lets see....

Tebow wont get drafted......oops
Tebow wont ever start......oops
Tebow wont ever win......oops
Tebow wont ever have a winning record.....oops
Tebow wont ever make the playoffs.....oops
Tebow will bever win a playoff game......oops

Feel free to argue against Tebow. I will continue to so myself. But use legitimate arguments instread of baseless arguments that continue to make yourself look like a fool in this debate.

You mean like Tebow couldn't throw an accurate pass to a cow standing still and alone in a pasture?

The ironic thing is he would probably hit 5 out of 20 cows and then pop the non-alcoholic bubbly after his winning afterwards.

Nomad
03-03-2012, 11:53 AM
I once saw my name on the GOODYEAR BLIMP.

It read: BORDERLINE IS A PIMP

so I see similarities as well............

I was talking more of the facial expression. You're probably a lean, mean fighting machine.

Reason I thought of Ice Cube is because I watched 'Boyz in the Hood' the other night on BET.

WARHORSE
03-03-2012, 12:26 PM
You mean like Tebow couldn't throw an accurate pass to a cow standing still and alone in a pasture?

No.

I mean he cant hit his own Fathead from across the room.


:coffee:


He hit the Elway Fathead once though. It was awesome.;)

Thnikkaman
03-03-2012, 12:40 PM
God I hope Cutler doesn't demand a trade, that would be devastating.

capt. Jack
03-03-2012, 12:46 PM
You mean like Tebow couldn't throw an accurate pass to a cow standing still and alone in a pasture?

Yes, but if he could, would the cow be able to catch it ? :-)

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Chef Zambini
03-03-2012, 12:56 PM
tebow for the #7 pick.
that pick, plus our own first round pick this year and our second round next year for the chance to get the #2 pick held by the rams. thats the deal I foresee.
I never mentioned miller and anyone who did is either an idiot or just trolling for an arguement.
if 2 #1s and a 2 are not enuff, then I would walk away from the trade.
I suggested as much way back in november, its documented at the freak !
trade tebow to the jax, trade up to get rgIII its right there in black and white.

Chef Zambini
03-03-2012, 01:02 PM
cow 20 yards away.
tebow and the cow, all alone.

I think tebow could hit it 7 out of 20 times,
but then the SPCA would put an end to it.
a cow on the run, 20 yards away, 1 out of 20 times tim might hit it, alone with no pass rush.
I sure hope we dont draft any cows as receivers.
hgave you ever wondered why we never see any video of TT throwing footballs thru a tire on a rope?
because he cant do it !
a Tires virginity is safe around tebow.

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 01:10 PM
Jax is not going to give us the #7 pick for Tebow. Quit dreaming.

Tebow will be our QB next year with a youg guy like Osweiler, Foles, or even Russel sitting on the bench learning waiting to take over if Tebow struggles. If QB is still a major question after next season then we draft our FQB in next year's draft that looks like a deep QB draft.

MOtorboat
03-03-2012, 01:10 PM
Draft Value Chart-wise, No. 25, No. 57 and the average value of a second rounder could, value-wise get the No. 7. But at that point, Denver wouldn't have enough ammo to get to No. 2.

Nomad
03-03-2012, 01:15 PM
I heard Tebow is seeking a trade to the Titans for some reason.:ponder:

BroncoNut
03-03-2012, 01:30 PM
rumors are just that. Rumors

Nomad
03-03-2012, 01:38 PM
rumors are just that. Rumors

call me naive but I'm really believing all of these rumors and my family and I are preparing for death on Dec 21 of this year.

Timmy!
03-03-2012, 01:56 PM
Worst thread ever.......zam take your meds.

BroncoNut
03-03-2012, 02:04 PM
call me naive but I'm really believing all of these rumors and my family and I are preparing for death on Dec 21 of this year.

are you guys really? I am always preparing for death. we know not when nor how it will come, .,, just that it comes to us all

this little saying gives me comfort

Death makes angels of us all. It gives us wings where we once had shoulders smooth as ravens' claws

HORSEPOWER 56
03-03-2012, 02:06 PM
If this cockamamie bullshit is even remotely true, the only way it could possibly go down would be trading Tebow to Jacksonville for their 1st rounder (which they wouldn't do because they drafted Gabbert, but if Khan is seeing $$$ he might overrule everyone in his FO and pull the trigger), then package their 1st rounder (#7) with ours at #25 and probably our 2nd rounder and maybe a 4th in order to get up to #2 overall. Miller isn't going anywhere.

I don't give a shit how well Luck or RGIII "project" or what scouts say, the Broncos just aren't stupid enough to make a Herschel Walker/Ricky Williams type deal just to get one of the two. Both might be great QBs, but seriously, is either going to have the success that Cam Newton did his first year? Would you trade all that shit I mentioned to get Cam? Of course you wouldn't.

Once again, having a potential "elite" QB is nice (that's all Luck and RGIII are right now, steaming piles of "potential") is great, but you have to have a team around them too. We would be completely tearing down and starting over on our "3 year plan" if we pulled some dumb shit like this.

The absolute best case I can possibly see in a Tebow trade is to try to lure Jax into giving us the #7 overall pick and then we target Tannehill. We aren't, nor should we, going to try to trade all the way up to #2 for a QB when we just made the playoffs last year. That's retarded.

Atlanta mortgaged their draft for one player last year too... how'd that turn out for them? :coffee:

HORSEPOWER 56
03-03-2012, 02:08 PM
I heard Tebow is seeking a trade to the Titans for some reason.:ponder:

I heard he was trying to get traded to NE so he could reunite with McDaniels and Aaron Hernandez... :rolleyes:

Nomad
03-03-2012, 02:12 PM
I heard he was trying to get traded to NE so he could reunite with McDaniels and Aaron Hernandez... :rolleyes:

Is HP actually being sarcastic:lol:?

Nomad
03-03-2012, 02:14 PM
are you guys really? I am always preparing for death. we know not when nor how it will come, .,, just that it comes to us all

this little saying gives me comfort

Death makes angels of us all. It gives us wings where we once had shoulders smooth as ravens' claws

That's deep, nut!

Denver Native (Carol)
03-03-2012, 02:16 PM
What started this rumor is that someone somewhere linked Peter King to this - i.e. it was stated that King had said that the Broncos were the mystery team. Dmac and Al were discussing this, and then Dmac said that they would try and get King on air with them. They did, and the following is what King had to say about this.

If anyone is interested in hearing what King had to say about this, click on

The Drive hour 2 3/1/12 on the following link.

http://www.1043thefan.com/podcasts/Episodes.aspx?PID=1623

OH, and by the way, local FOX was the only place where this was mentioned in Denver, as far as I know.

Nomad
03-03-2012, 02:21 PM
What started this rumor is that someone somewhere linked Peter King to this - i.e. it was stated that King had said that the Broncos were the mystery team. Dmac and Al were discussing this, and then Dmac said that they would try and get King on air with them. They did, and the following is what King had to say about this.

If anyone is interested in hearing what King had to say about this, click on

The Drive hour 2 3/1/12 on the following link.

http://www.1043thefan.com/podcasts/Episodes.aspx?PID=1623

OH, and by the way, for some reason local FOX was the only place where this was mentioned in Denver, as far as I know.

I don't believe many people believe these rumors DN, if at all. It's all in jest.

BroncoNut
03-03-2012, 02:25 PM
Good deal! I didn't want to get in trouble like I did over on the other board,I promised I would behave myself over here! :-)

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I've been trying to get banned from here for like 5 years now.

BroncoNut
03-03-2012, 02:26 PM
That's deep, nut!

don't jest Nomad

Nomad
03-03-2012, 02:27 PM
don't jest Nomad

My apologies because I see some serious folks in this thread.

BroncoNut
03-03-2012, 02:28 PM
My apologies because I see some serious folks in this thread.

I don't understand this post in the slightest. I see what you are responding to, but I'm like WTF?

Broncos Mtnman
03-03-2012, 02:33 PM
If the right deal presented itself, I don't think Fox or Elway would hesitate a minute. Problem is where is this deal going to come from. Miller isn't going anywhere. Who is the legit quarterback. Sounds like a pipe dream generated at Bleacher Report.

You did notice the source being FOX 31 News, didn't you?

:confused:

dogfish
03-03-2012, 02:33 PM
Border, you look pissed in your avy man. lol

he's gettin' ready to regulate on some tebow-hatin' fools. . .



next year, whatever team RGIIIplays for, he will have twice the TDs and half the turnovers that tebow will have !
RG II is that good and tebow is that bad.
sorry to smack some of you in the face with REALITY !
..and it also seems like some of you cant get behind the idea of a black face being the face of our franchise QB !
Tebow would be ashamed of you !

hah! just as i always suspected. . . we really only like tebow because he's white! to hell with robert griffin-- we should trade von miller for hillis and danny woodhead!

dogfish
03-03-2012, 02:34 PM
You did notice the source being FOX 31 News, didn't you?

:confused:

even worse!

slim
03-03-2012, 02:38 PM
RGIII is black?

Denver Native (Carol)
03-03-2012, 02:40 PM
I don't believe many people believe these rumors DN, if at all. It's all in jest.

Apparently someone did, as this thread was started. And, here is exactly what King said -



Well, deck the halls with boughs of holly, because SI's Peter King offers the chance for a doozy:

St. Louis is ready to deal its pick, and one NFL source said on Saturday night that the team has already has several feelers -- including one from a team "you would never expect."

And from the above, it now has Patriots' fans thinking it could be the Patriots

http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/post/Patriots-mystery-team-inquiring-on-No-2-?blockID=660432&feedID=10426

Nomad
03-03-2012, 02:44 PM
Apparently someone did, as this thread was started. And, here is exactly what King said -




And from the above, it now has Patriots' fans thinking it could be the Patriots

http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/post/Patriots-mystery-team-inquiring-on-No-2-?blockID=660432&feedID=10426

It's more of wishful thinking by some. Elway's not this dumb to make this kinda of move.

Shazam!
03-03-2012, 03:15 PM
This gets better and better. Or dumber and dumber.

silkamilkamonico
03-03-2012, 03:16 PM
smh

Tebow is not going to be traded this offseason and denver is not trading up for RG3.

This sooner some of you spaceheads can just deal with it the better off you"ll be....

...and these forums as well

Nomad
03-03-2012, 03:22 PM
This gets better and better. Or dumber and dumber.

No one liked my Titans rumor so Tebow could get closer to Swift.....I'm pretty bummed. And then Nut is chewing me out.

Ravage!!!
03-03-2012, 03:39 PM
I'm pretty DAMNED glad we aren't moving from Tebow to RGIII. I don't want that QB anywhere near a Broncos uniform.

BroncoJoe
03-03-2012, 03:49 PM
If zam the wacko supports the move, I am 100% against it.

nevcraw
03-03-2012, 05:48 PM
what's more fun than zam on a crusade

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 05:52 PM
what's more fun than zam on a crusade

Rav on a rampage.

Dzone
03-03-2012, 06:11 PM
Tebow is the best damn thing to happen to this franchise since 1999...well, its a toss up between him and Plummer

topscribe
03-03-2012, 06:17 PM
Not really. I would much rather trade Miller and grab a 7th round pick to pick up a FQB.

I hear they're working on what they call the "Brady rule."

Seventh-round selections can no longer qualify as FQBs . . .

-----

Lancane
03-03-2012, 07:25 PM
Tebow is the best damn thing to happen to this franchise since 1999...well, its a toss up between him and Plummer

I wouldn't go that far, not even close...and he could well end up the worst thing to happen to this franchise since the hiring of McDaniels.

Shazam!
03-03-2012, 07:53 PM
I wouldn't go that far, not even close...and he could well end up the worst thing to happen to this franchise since the hiring of McDaniels.

Without him, they maybe win 5 games... maybe.

topscribe
03-03-2012, 07:56 PM
Without him, they maybe win 5 games... maybe.

You don't know that. Maybe they would have had the same blind luck . . .

-----

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 08:01 PM
You don't know that. Maybe they would have had the same blind luck . . .

-----

Orton is like an unlucky charm. He would have directly counteracted any good luck we would have gotten.

topscribe
03-03-2012, 08:03 PM
Orton is like an unlucky charm. He would have directly counteracted any good luck we would have gotten.

What's with the sudden Orton shit? I was addressing the "what-if" statement.
Go to bed with Stud and talk about Orton while you are there . . .

-----

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 08:07 PM
What's with the sudden Orton shit? I was addressing the "what-if" statement.
Go to bed with Stud and talk about Orton while you are there . . .

-----

Calm down bud. I was just making a little joke. Besides, the Orton hater gang bang happens on Friday nights.

topscribe
03-03-2012, 08:10 PM
Calm down bud. I was just making a little joke. Besides, the Orton hater gang bang happens on Friday nights.

Over the way I was treated because I backed a player who happened to be
wearing a Broncos uniform at the time, I am not yet at the stage where I
have much of a sense of humor. You were one of the FEW who treated me
civilly while you debated with me, but now Orton is gone, and so is my desire
to discuss him . . .

-----

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 08:12 PM
Yet you don't seem to have Tebow's back too strongly.

topscribe
03-03-2012, 08:14 PM
Yet you don't seem to have Tebow's back too strongly.

Tebow is not Orton, and Orton is not Tebow. How I evaluate one has nothing
to do with the other.

For instance, I was a big fan of Plummer's. I backed him firmly while he was
QB. Yet I was a fan of Cutler's, too (still am), even though he supplanted
Plummer.

So, you see, how I feel about one QB has nothing to do with how I feel about
another, regardless of the circumstances . . .

-----

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 08:16 PM
I wasn't talking about evaluation I was talking about support. Whatever, you are biasd against Tebow the way I was about Orton, I at least was open and honest about my bias.

topscribe
03-03-2012, 08:18 PM
I wasn't talking about evaluation I was talking about support. Whatever, you are biasd against Tebow the way I was about Orton, I at least was open and honest about my bias.

Right. And it's my bias that caused a 46.5% comp rate, 14 fumbles, and
miserably inconsistent play. My powers are amazing . . .

-----

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 08:21 PM
Right. And it's my bias that caused a 46.5% comp rate, 14 fumbles, and
miserably inconsistent play. My powers are amazing . . .

-----

And it was my bias that had the Broncos at 1-4 with Orton and winning a playoff game with Tebow. Guess I trumped ya pal.

Dortoh
03-03-2012, 08:23 PM
Can we all atleast agree that Tebow has brought back the fun/excitement of the hb pass?

claymore
03-03-2012, 08:28 PM
And it was my bias that had the Broncos at 1-4 with Orton and winning a playoff game with Tebow. Guess I trumped ya pal.

3 of those 4 could have gone either way. I hate orton, but its hard to say we were a better team when we scored less points, Tebow looked as bad as he did, and it took the amount of luck that it took.

He looked worse than Orton did in Ortons miracle 6-0 luck start.

topscribe
03-03-2012, 08:30 PM
3 of those 4 could have gone either way. I hate orton, but its hard to say we were a better team when we scored less points, Tebow looked as bad as he did, and it took the amount of luck that it took.

He looked worse than Orton did in Ortons miracle 6-0 luck start.

Thank you. Had I said that, there would have been hell to pay . . .

-----

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 08:34 PM
And Orton looked worse in his final two starts of 2010 and his first five starts in 2011 than Tebow did overall IMHO. Orton looked like the worst QB in the league in those games with no upside or fringe benefits. Yes Tebow looks downright miserable in the passing game at times, but tell me honestly who would you want in the last two minutes with the game on the line, Tebow or Orton?

I'm not a Tebow fanatic but I also get sick of seeing people bash him endlessly especially when some of those people are the same people who excused every pathetic flop by Orton the terrible.

topscribe
03-03-2012, 08:38 PM
And Orton looked worse in his final two starts of 2010 and his first five starts in 2011 than Tebow did overall IMHO. Orton looked like the worst QB in the league in those games with no upside or fringe benefits. Yes Tebow looks downright miserable in the passing game at times, but tell me honestly who would you want in the last two minutes with the game on the line, Tebow or Orton?

I'm not a Tebow fanatic but I also get sick of seeing people bash him endlessly especially when some of those people are the same people who excused every pathetic flop by Orton the terrible.

Fine. You've had your say. Now, since the board does not revolve around you,
my advice is just to ignore those posts that make you sick . . .

-----

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 08:43 PM
Whoa, why is this getting personal?

Jsteve01
03-03-2012, 09:27 PM
Ok just so we're clear Klis never suggested the Broncos should or would trade Von. He said that they would have to include him to make a deal make sense.

And for the love of pete that was one of the worst written articles I've ever had the displeasure to read.

BroncoStud
03-03-2012, 09:30 PM
Orton is like an unlucky charm. He would have directly counteracted any good luck we would have gotten.

What's with the sudden Orton shit? I was addressing the "what-if" statement.
Go to bed with Stud and talk about Orton while you are there . . .

-----

Gee, that isn't a personal attack or anything... Funny how the oldest members of the board act the most immature. Chaz is right, the Broncos were 1- 5 with Orton, division champs with Tebow.

There is no debate. Better watch out TOP, if Orton makes a sudden stop your head might pop out of one of his nostrils.

BroncoStud
03-03-2012, 09:35 PM
3 of those 4 could have gone either way. I hate orton, but its hard to say we were a better team when we scored less points, Tebow looked as bad as he did, and it took the amount of luck that it took.

He looked worse than Orton did in Ortons miracle 6-0 luck start.

Thank you. Had I said that, there would have been hell to pay . . .

-----

You spent over 2 years posting some of the most insane dribble in defense of a bad QB in Internet history, there SHOULD be some hell to pay.

Not just here, you went to several websites defending Kyle's honor when most logically intelligent people saw what was clear as day - he sucked.

Now you want to act like your evaluation of QBs trumps ours? Whatever...

HORSEPOWER 56
03-03-2012, 09:39 PM
3 of those 4 could have gone either way. I hate orton, but its hard to say we were a better team when we scored less points, Tebow looked as bad as he did, and it took the amount of luck that it took.

He looked worse than Orton did in Ortons miracle 6-0 luck start.

But he looked better than Orton in all of Orton's later starts. In 2010, Orton's second season, the Broncos were in position to win 6 games late in the game, trailing by a TD or less. Of those 6 games, we won ONE (Tennessee, aided by a PI which placed the ball at the 1 yard line).

Now, take into account how many games this past season we were in the same position with Tebow at the helm and tell me how we fared? Didn't we win most of those?

That's the whole point. That's the real meat of the argument. Not who throws for more yards, not who scores more TDs, not even who turns the ball over more... who can lead the offense to a game winning score when the chips are down. For all the yards, TDs, and glitzy stats, the reason guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, both Mannings, etc are who they are are because they are that type of guy. How many times have you heard... "you don't want to give _____ (fill in one of the names above) the ball back with time left on the clock up by a score or less"? Why? Because they frickin' bring their team back to win more often than not by leading the offense down the field for a game winning/tying score.

We finally have a guy who can do that again. It's been over a decade since we've had a guy that we knew that there was always a chance... a damned good one, that we could win those close games, come from behind late, and not quit when the chips were down.

Is Tebow "there" yet? No. But neither were any of the guys listed above right out of the gate. Why is it so hard to understand these concepts. Tebow has a ton of work to do, we all know that. Just to toss him out with the trash after only one season where he led us to our first playoff win since 2005 just to attempt to bring in another guy who could fall flat is ludicrous.

Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

Dortoh
03-03-2012, 09:45 PM
i sometimes lay in bed and wonder how Orton would have done with a defense playing like ours was for a 6 week strech. Not to rock the boat just saying.

Besides lately I have nothing better to do in bed ;) LMAO

chazoe60
03-03-2012, 09:52 PM
i sometimes lay in bed and wonder how Orton would have done with a defense playing like ours was for a 6 week strech. Not to rock the boat just saying.

Besides lately I have nothing better to do in bed ;) LMAO

Orton would have done what Orton does, suck at the end of close games. I don't know if Tebow will end up being the answer, I have my doubts but I also have some optimism, but I do know Kyle Orton was never going to be the answer.

Orton? That ship has sailed, and I am thankful for that.

Lancane
03-03-2012, 09:55 PM
Can we all atleast agree that Tebow has brought back the fun/excitement of the hb pass?

He's as much fun as a case of herpes! :lol:

Dortoh
03-03-2012, 10:02 PM
Orton would have done what Orton does, suck at the end of close games. I don't know if Tebow will end up being the answer, I have my doubts but I also have some optimism, but I do know Kyle Orton was never going to be the answer. Orton? That ship has sailed, and I am thankful for that.

dont really like to be serious but I agree with this for sure.

Once we make a move for Manning we will see whats what :elefant:

Davii
03-03-2012, 10:16 PM
i sometimes lay in bed and wonder how Orton would have done with a defense playing like ours was for a 6 week strech. Not to rock the boat just saying.

Besides lately I have nothing better to do in bed ;) LMAO

Well, he probably would've put them in a hole by fumbling, etc. I don't think it's pure coincidence that when Tebow had turnovers the D didn't look near as well, and we lost games.

broncobryce
03-03-2012, 10:34 PM
He's as much fun as a case of herpes! :lol:

Yeah, how boring were all those comebacks?

I mean I fell asleep every time we were down 10 or so and came back to win almost every time.

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz...........

And winning the division and a playoff game?

Geez I've never been more disappointed in my life.:drinking:

Shazam!
03-03-2012, 10:43 PM
But he looked better than Orton in all of Orton's later starts. In 2010, Orton's second season, the Broncos were in position to win 6 games late in the game, trailing by a TD or less. Of those 6 games, we won ONE (Tennessee, aided by a PI which placed the ball at the 1 yard line).

Now, take into account how many games this past season we were in the same position with Tebow at the helm and tell me how we fared? Didn't we win most of those?

That's the whole point. That's the real meat of the argument. Not who throws for more yards, not who scores more TDs, not even who turns the ball over more... who can lead the offense to a game winning score when the chips are down. For all the yards, TDs, and glitzy stats, the reason guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, both Mannings, etc are who they are are because they are that type of guy. How many times have you heard... "you don't want to give _____ (fill in one of the names above) the ball back with time left on the clock up by a score or less"? Why? Because they frickin' bring their team back to win more often than not by leading the offense down the field for a game winning/tying score.

We finally have a guy who can do that again. It's been over a decade since we've had a guy that we knew that there was always a chance... a damned good one, that we could win those close games, come from behind late, and not quit when the chips were down.

Is Tebow "there" yet? No. But neither were any of the guys listed above right out of the gate. Why is it so hard to understand these concepts. Tebow has a ton of work to do, we all know that. Just to toss him out with the trash after only one season where he led us to our first playoff win since 2005 just to attempt to bring in another guy who could fall flat is ludicrous.

Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!!

Lancane
03-03-2012, 10:58 PM
Yeah, how boring were all those comebacks?

I mean I fell asleep every time we were down 10 or so and came back to win almost every time.

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz...........

And winning the division and a playoff game?

Geez I've never been more disappointed in my life.:drinking:

It was a team effort...and Tebow is only part of the equation. Yeah, it's exciting, but the reality is that unless he improves we'll see far fewer of those Bryce. And in the modern NFL, unlike the 70's, 80's and 90's, teams are built to be too competitive to think that it can continue to happen with his sorry ass passing ability is simply ludicrous. You also discount the defense, special teams, those players around him on offense and not to mention an unorthodox offense that pretty much surprised and shocked the league. People keep discounting the offensive scheme, a gimmick offense that did much of what the Wild Cat did for Miami for a season or two only to fall flat. Yeah, like most fans I love a good comeback, but not week in and week out due to the ineptitude of our quarterback causing the need to do that in the first place against I might add against mediocre teams...whoa, impressive!

And people need to realize that we didn't win the division of our own accord, we gave it away...Oakland was just not good enough to put it away themselves. We could have won the division outright, instead we had to count on someone else - sorry if I'm not freaking impressed. As for the Pittsburgh game, yeah...it was a good game, it also will not happen often and what we saw a week later was disappointing, funny how he couldn't put up similar numbers against weaker defenses. And what's the excuse there? Far easier to believe the game against the Steelers was a fluke then that Tebow is really that good and the defenses we faced just happened to play their best games against us!

DenBronx
03-03-2012, 10:58 PM
Klis is a big effin idiot. There's no way we will trade up that far or give up what we would have to give up for a QB that has never been proven on an NFL field. If this were Luck then it would make more sense but this is RGIII and I think the bust factor is very high in his case. Go ahead and flame away but thats how I feel.

Klis is a bigger effin idiot if he thinks we would ever trade V. Miller. You know, the stub proven rookie LB we drafted at #2 overall last year? I would have serious doubts about EFX if they were to trade him away to get RGIII.

broncobryce
03-03-2012, 11:05 PM
It was a team effort...and Tebow is only part of the equation. Yeah, it's exciting, but the reality is that unless he improves we'll see far fewer of those Bryce. And in the modern NFL, unlike the 70's, 80's and 90's, teams are built to be too competitive to think that it can continue to happen with his sorry ass passing ability is simply ludicrous. You also discount the defense, special teams, those players around him on offense and not to mention an unorthodox offense that pretty much surprised and shocked the league. People keep discounting the offensive scheme, a gimmick offense that did much of what the Wild Cat did for Miami for a season or two only to fall flat. Yeah, like most fans I love a good comeback, but not week in and week out due to the ineptitude of our quarterback causing the need to do that in the first place against I might add against mediocre teams...whoa, impressive!

And people need to realize that we didn't win the division of our own accord, we gave it away...Oakland was just not good enough to put it away themselves. We could have won the division outright, instead we had to count on someone else - sorry if I'm not freaking impressed. As for the Pittsburgh game, yeah...it was a good game, it also will not happen often and what we saw a week later was disappointing, funny how he couldn't put up similar numbers against weaker defenses. And what's the excuse there? Far easier to believe the game against the Steelers was a fluke then that Tebow is really that good and the defenses we faced just happened to play their best games against us!

You're right, the whole thing was just pure luck. Sorry it just sounds like you are making excuse after excuse.

I won't make excuses for Tebow's bad play at times, so I don't accept writing off his excellent play in crucial spots as luck.

But you can do whatever you want. Just be careful because we might be watching this guy QB our team for the next 10 years.

Npba900
03-04-2012, 10:59 AM
the rams arent trading for tebow, especially with bradford. that is just stupid football ignorance.

there, ive killed this trade "rumor". lets all move along now.

As we speak! There isn't 31 NFL teams that would want "Project Tebow" as its future starting/long term QB. However, a team that has a Think-Outside-The Box" offensive guru would be totally intrigued with trading for Tebow to bring him in as Tight End.

TT15Superman
03-04-2012, 11:19 AM
Trading Tebow would make Elway and company look just as bad as that liar McDaniels at this point.It's been documented that they failed the first time in making Tebow look bad. They have to try again in hopes that Tebow fails before they can legitimately ship him out. And if you don't believe me, there was an article about how "upper management/executives" in the Broncos organization put Tebow in to see what he could "bring to the table" as the season was "lost". Then, they proceeded to trade away their best receiver...hence, attempting to sabotage what Tebow could "bring to the table" and ensure that Luck would fall into their laps. They were surprised at what he did...(as were the naysayers on this board and people who continue to joke about his passing). Yeah, yeah, I know, I know..."I support the starting QB of the Broncos, and I hope that he does well and improves...BUUUUTTTTT...if the right deal came along..." Well, you naysayers would not say that about Cutler (if he were still the Broncos QB), would you? I personally, would take Tebow over Cutler any day. Cutler inspires nothing except being a whiny bitch.

Well, we know that Tebow flipped the script on EFX this season (as he normally does to those who doubt him)...

Let's hope/pray for more script flipping next year...

Go Tebow!!!
Go Broncos!!!

turftoad
03-04-2012, 11:22 AM
It's been documented that they failed the first time in making Tebow look bad. They have to try again in hopes that Tebow fails before they can legitimately ship him out. And if you don't believe me, there was an article about how "upper management/executives" in the Broncos organization put Tebow in to see what he could "bring to the table" as the season was "lost". Then, they proceeded to trade away their best receiver...hence, attempting to sabotage what Tebow could "bring to the table" and ensure that Luck would fall into their laps. They were surprised at what he did...(as were the naysayers on this board and people who continue to joke about his passing). Well, we know that Tebow flipped the script on EFX this season (as he normally does to those who doubt him)...

Let's hope/pray for more script flipping next year...

Go Tebow!!!
Go Broncos!!!

Documented?? :confused:

Lloyd is overrated.

MOtorboat
03-04-2012, 11:56 AM
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tin-foil-hat.jpg

Nomad
03-04-2012, 12:06 PM
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tin-foil-hat.jpg

:lol:I wonder what the cat is thinking.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 12:10 PM
Documented?? :confused:

Lloyd is overrated.

May be, my friend. But, while I believe TT15's post is utter nonsense, it would
seem Lloyd's performances over the last couple years -- 77 rec in 2010 and
70 in 2011, despite changing teams -- in themselves have him rated pretty
high . . .

-----

turftoad
03-04-2012, 12:18 PM
May be, my friend. But, while I believe TT15's post is utter nonsense, it would
seem Lloyd's performances over the last couple years -- 77 rec in 2010 and
70 in 2011, despite changing teams -- in themselves have him rated pretty
high . . .

-----

Ahh.... we will see Top. McDoosh used him extensivly the last two years. If he doesn't end up in NE, things could change. Time will tell. He sucked for all those years before McD.

MOtorboat
03-04-2012, 12:25 PM
:lol:I wonder what the cat is thinking.

http://p.twimg.com/AireaCeCMAQDiMD.jpg#tebow%20cat

topscribe
03-04-2012, 12:34 PM
Ahh.... we will see Top. McDoosh used him extensivly the last two years. If he doesn't end up in NE, things could change. Time will tell. He sucked for all those years before McD.

Of course, McDaniels used him a lot. If he could catch all those passes,
wouldn't you?

I don't believe he would have excelled with Tebow, though. Tebow can't pass
into tight windows. Orton can. Bradford can. And the thing about Lloyd is
that he seldom gets great separation, so he needs that kind of QB. If he
goes to NE, where Brady captains the ship and there is a dearth of good
WRs, Lloyd might even improve on his numbers because Brady can do it
better than just about anyone else. I don't blame Lloyd for wanting to go
there . . .

-----

turftoad
03-04-2012, 12:37 PM
Of course, McDaniels used him a lot. If he could catch all those passes,
wouldn't you?

I don't believe he would have excelled with Tebow, though. Tebow can't pass
into tight windows. Orton can. Bradford can. And the thing about Lloyd is
that he never gets great separation, so he needs that kind of QB. If he goes
to NE, where Brady captains the ship and there is a dearth of good WRs,
Lloyd might even improve on his numbers because Brady can do it better
than just about anyone else. I don't blame Lloyd for wanting to go there . . .

-----

Exactly why Lloyd didn't want to play with Tebow or the system the Broncos used to suit Tebow.

MOtorboat
03-04-2012, 12:40 PM
Exactly why Lloyd didn't want to play with Tebow or the system the Broncos used to suit Tebow.

Don't worry. Denver will just sign a big name free agent this year to replace him.

turftoad
03-04-2012, 12:43 PM
Don't worry. Denver will just sign a big name free agent this year to replace him.

We already did Mo. Jason Hill!!
Thats about as big of a name thats gonna want to be an offense that throws the ball 10 times a game. :D

topscribe
03-04-2012, 12:46 PM
Don't worry. Denver will just sign a big name free agent this year to replace him.

Exactly. After all, they did sign none other than Jerry Rice, didn't they?

-----

topscribe
03-04-2012, 12:48 PM
We already did Mo. Jason Hill!!
Thats about as big of a name thats gonna want to be an offense that throws the ball 10 times a game. :D

Might increase the number of recruits among cheerleaders, though.

That's about they only way they can expect a pass from Tebow . . . :D

-----

Lancane
03-04-2012, 12:52 PM
You're right, the whole thing was just pure luck. Sorry it just sounds like you are making excuse after excuse.

I won't make excuses for Tebow's bad play at times, so I don't accept writing off his excellent play in crucial spots as luck.

But you can do whatever you want. Just be careful because we might be watching this guy QB our team for the next 10 years.

Don't mistake my intent Bryce, I will not discount 'luck' from some of those victories, because to do so would be pure ignorance. And I also realize that a good portion of the equation in some of those wins heralded from Tebow's uncanny intangibles. I'm not making excuses, I have no reason to do so in such an argument, as you well know.

Tebow was as much a part of the team having to come from behind as he was for rallying the offense in order to pull off the comeback. It wouldn't have been necessary if he had the knowledge and mechanics to play the position as required at this level and could do so for more then one or two quarters. The Pittsburgh game was the only game this past season where it looked as if he was actually playing all four quarters, so what's the excuse the other times? What's the excuse for him to not even be able to play a decent game against mediocre defenses? Discount the fact that he sucked more often then not and couldn't barely pass the football against horrific defenses and then play only one solid game, one in which he actually looked like a quarterback. Sorry, I'm more realistic then that.

Chef Zambini
03-04-2012, 01:16 PM
:lol:I wonder what the cat is thinking.the shit I put up with all for some lousy friskies !

Chef Zambini
03-04-2012, 01:18 PM
folks,
\ can we please get past the orton VS tebow crap/
orton is gone, its over and he aint coming back.
its like wasting our time harping over cutler and plummer.
can we please move on?
orton has NOTHING to do with tebow, the broncos, or the entire state of colorado.
save it for the weeks we play the cheifs, ok ?

turftoad
03-04-2012, 01:20 PM
folks,
\ can we please get past the orton VS tebow crap/
orton is gone, its over and he aint coming back.
its like wasting our time harping over cutler and plummer.
can we please move on?
orton has NOTHING to do with tebow, the broncos, or the entire state of colorado.
save it for the weeks we play the cheifs, ok ?

Or.... whoever he ends up playing for.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 01:24 PM
Or.... whoever he ends up playing for.

I hope it's somewhere else outside of the AFCW. I don't want to see him twice a
year. There's a long history of ex-Broncos coming back and haunting the Broncos . . .

-----

BroncoStud
03-04-2012, 04:13 PM
Yes, the idea of facing the mighty Kyle Orton twice a season is terrifying... :elefant:

Lancane
03-04-2012, 07:06 PM
Yes, the idea of facing the mighty Kyle Orton twice a season is terrifying... :elefant:

While I do have a tendency to agree with you about Orton. You do realize that Denver has never won a game against a team in which he is the starting quarterback, right?

BroncoStud
03-04-2012, 07:24 PM
It is pretty pathetic that the Broncos couldn't muster more than 1 TD to beat the Orton-led Chiefs this year... He's just so pathetic to watch play... I liken it to a cow stuck in barbed wire.

Davii
03-04-2012, 07:36 PM
As we speak! There isn't 31 NFL teams that would want "Project Tebow" as its future starting/long term QB. However, a team that has a Think-Outside-The Box" offensive guru would be totally intrigued with trading for Tebow to bring him in as Tight End.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't ever change np, no matter what anyone says. Your constant "TT as a TE" shtick will catch on like "who's on first" one day!

TT15Superman
03-04-2012, 07:40 PM
...while I believe TT15's post is utter nonsense...I'll eat my words for all the doubters and EFX "believers" when Elway comes out and says...
"Tebow. Is. Our. Starting. QB. Period. Preseason. Regular season. Period."

Until that happens, I say that EFX (at least E) wanted to quiet the hysteria and let Tebow prove that he was a bust. There was no confidence by the "E"(xecutives) that Tebow could play in the league. He would fail, we would put in Qwinn near the end to prove that he would fail also, and then, we would go on to draft Luck. Problem solved. Well, script flipped, "E" had to back off and eat his words, and relegate to hedging his bets by making Tebow the starting QB heading into training camp. Can't even come out and give Tebow a full season following a full offseason to prove himself. Nope. He's only got training camp. Please...

Simple Jaded
03-04-2012, 07:44 PM
This is complete fabricated bull!@#$.

NO WAY does Denver management trade it's starting QB twice in 5 years.

...and Miller too?? Riiiiiight.

They benched and released their starting QB last year, why the F' wouldn't they trade one this year?.......

Simple Jaded
03-04-2012, 07:52 PM
That would be the absolute most stupid move this franchise could ever possibly make.The empty seats at Mile High would outnumber the people in the stadium. We would be 2-14 and watching Tebow lead some other team to the super bowl. Talk about feeling crappy.

This is a slow time of year for sportswriters, so they have to say something idiotic in order to garner some attention for themselves

The Broncos have been selling out Mile High for decades, l think you overestimate the drawing power of high school offenses.......

BORDERLINE
03-04-2012, 07:52 PM
They benched and released their starting QB last year, why the F' wouldn't they trade one this year?.......

How typical, the only untouchable starter is the player that was consistently the worst player on the field.......

The Tebow Thing just isn't worth the brain damage, trade his ass for a keg of beer and a large pizza and throw a F'n party.......

........something tells me your not even the smallest of a Tim Tebow fan. So your opinion is a tiny bit subjective.

They benched and released their stater last year because after that nice little 4-12 season it was followed by a 1-4 start.

MOtorboat
03-04-2012, 07:53 PM
I'll eat my words for all the doubters and EFX "believers" when Elway comes out and says...
"Tebow. Is. Our. Starting. QB. Period. Preseason. Regular season. Period."

Until that happens, I say that EFX (at least E) wanted to quiet the hysteria and let Tebow prove that he was a bust. There was no confidence by the "E"(xecutives) that Tebow could play in the league. He would fail, we would put in Qwinn near the end to prove that he would fail also, and then, we would go on to draft Luck. Problem solved. Well, script flipped, "E" had to back off and eat his words, and relegate to hedging his bets by making Tebow the starting QB heading into training camp. Can't even come out and give Tebow a full season following a full offseason to prove himself. Nope. He's only got training camp. Please...

Please don't use "we" when referencing the Broncos, TIA.

MOtorboat
03-04-2012, 07:56 PM
The Broncos have been selling out Mile High for decades, l think you overestimate the drawing power of high school offenses.......

Its amazing to watch Tebow nuthuggers trash the history of the franchise.

chazoe60
03-04-2012, 08:00 PM
Maybe someday the Broncos will once again have a QB we can all get behind.

I'm hoping Tebow improves enough to be that guy, even though I think there are some folks who will never get behind him.

Simple Jaded
03-04-2012, 08:05 PM
You're not getting #7 for Tebow/#25. If that's the case, just get them to throw in Gabbert and draft Morris Claiborne and you've improved the QB and CB position. Albiet slightly in Gabbert's case.......

BORDERLINE
03-04-2012, 08:05 PM
Maybe someday the Broncos will once again have a QB we can all get behind.

I'm hoping Tebow improves enough to be that guy, even though I think there are some folks who will never get behind him.

exactly. I want Tebow to be that guy. This dude is the whole package if he can just get some kind of passing game. But if he proves HE can't do IT. Fine, ship him away. Let him GO. But I don't see how after this past season some Broncos fan's can't just have a WAIT and see attitude. It's like they deeply DISLIKE the idea of TEBOW being the Broncos QB.

Sh**, I would have had Orton's BACK had he won us these games and took us to the playoffs until HE proved HE couldn't DO IT.

Davii
03-04-2012, 08:06 PM
Its amazing to watch Tebow nuthuggers trash the history of the franchise.

I wouldn't say trashing it Mo. They don't know, nor care to know, any of it.

Simple Jaded
03-04-2012, 08:09 PM
How typical, the only untouchable starter is the player that was consistently the worst player on the field.......

The Tebow Thing just isn't worth the brain damage, trade his ass for a keg of beer and a large pizza and throw a F'n party.......

........something tells me your not even the smallest of a Tim Tebow fan. So your opinion is a tiny bit subjective.

They benched and released their stater last year because after that nice little 4-12 season it was followed by a 1-4 start.

Apparently you've learned nothing in the time l've wasted on you.......

MOtorboat
03-04-2012, 08:11 PM
I wouldn't say trashing it Mo. They don't know, nor care to know, any of it.

If they don't CARE to know, imo, they are trashing it.

Eff them.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 08:14 PM
exactly. I want Tebow to be that guy. This dude is the whole package if he can just get some kind of passing game. But if he proves HE can't do IT. Fine, ship him away. Let him GO. But I don't see how after this past season some Broncos fan's can't just have a WAIT and see attitude. It's like they deeply DISLIKE the idea of TEBOW being the Broncos QB.

Sh**, I would have had Orton's BACK had he won us these games and took us to the playoffs until HE proved HE couldn't DO IT.

So you really think Tebow took the Broncos to all those wins? It has been
clearly presented that the defense improved while the offense declined after
Tebow took over. This is a fact. The defense allowed less points, and the
offense scored less points.

When Tebow can complete more of his passes, when he can include the
right side of the field in his offense, when he can read defenses and check
down, when he can stop staring down receivers, when he can pass into
tighter windows, when he can fumble less . . . that is when most of us will
be a bit more glad he is the QB . . .

-----

slim
03-04-2012, 08:14 PM
Apparently you've learned nothing in the time l've wasted on you.......

I've learned you are less objective than most of the Tebow nuthuggers.

But still more objective than MO, so there is that.

Simple Jaded
03-04-2012, 08:16 PM
Its amazing to watch Tebow nuthuggers trash the history of the franchise.

It's amazing how Tebow/Gator fans speak for an entire stadium full of Broncos fans.......

BORDERLINE
03-04-2012, 08:24 PM
So you really think Tebow took the Broncos to all those wins? It has been
clearly presented that the defense improved while the offense declined after
Tebow took over. This is a fact. The defense allowed less points, and the
offense scored less points.

When Tebow can complete more of his passes, when he can include the
right side of the field in his offense, when he can read defenses and check
down, when he can stop staring down receivers, when he can pass into
tighter windows, when he can fumble less . . . that is when most of us will
be a bit more glad he is the QB . . .

-----

I think HE played a part in a lot of those Wins. Yes the defense played amazing as well.

But like I said if Orton would have done the same I would be supporting HIM the Same.

But the FATCS are the HE didn't DO IT.

Simple Jaded
03-04-2012, 08:26 PM
I've learned you are less objective than most of the Tebow nuthuggers.

But still more objective than MO, so there is that.

Please, Skip Bayless is more objective than Tebow nuthuggers. As for me, l don't remember making any predictions with Tim Tebow, l'm just dealing with the facts as we know. But if not being "objective" means you have no use for the obligatory "he just wins" bullshit, then yes, l haven't been objective for about 3 years.......

BORDERLINE
03-04-2012, 08:27 PM
Apparently you've learned nothing in the time l've wasted on you.......

I've learned NOTHING. If you where a teacher you would be doing the LEMON dance every year.

Simple Jaded
03-04-2012, 08:30 PM
I've learned NOTHING. If you where a teacher you would be doing the LEMON dance every year.

You asked for FACTS, l gave them. You can lead a horse to water.......

topscribe
03-04-2012, 08:31 PM
I think HE played a part in a lot of those Wins. Yes the defense played amazing as well.

But like I said if Orton would have done the same I would be supporting HIM the Same.

But the FATCS are the HE didn't DO IT.

And neither did Tebow, IMO. Yes, he did conduct a couple amazing last
minute drives, but the defense is what got him there while he played
miserably the previous 55 minutes of the game.

I have openly said Orton needs to learn to be a better closer. But Orton is
gone. He is no longer part of the story here. Tebow is. And it remains that
Tebow just was not a good QB most of the time. He just wasn't, sorry. :shrugs:

-----

slim
03-04-2012, 08:34 PM
Please, Skip Bayless is more objective than Tebow nuthuggers. As for me, l don't remember making any predictions with Tim Tebow, l'm just dealing with the facts as we know. But if not being "objective" means you have no use for the obligatory "he just wins" bullshit, then yes, l haven't been objective for about 3 years.......

Well, the facts are that Tim Tebow is the starting QB for the Denver Broncos, and with him at QB they won the division and a playoff game.

So, if we are going to be objective, wouldn't we have to say that Tim deserves one more year to show if he can improve on last year?

The FO obivously feels that he is capable, or he would not be the starting QB. And please save the "they are only pandering to the nuthugger's" B.S. for someone else. We both know that is not how the NFL works.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 08:38 PM
Well, the facts are that Tim Tebow is the starting QB for the Denver Broncos, and with him at QB they won the division and a playoff game.

So, if we are going to be objective, wouldn't we have to say that Tim deserves one more year to show if he can improve on last year?

The FO obivously feels that he is capable, or he would not be the starting QB. And please save the "they are only pandering to the nuthugger's" B.S. for someone else. We both know that is not how the NFL works.

I don't perceive that the FO obviously feels Tebow is capable. They named
him starter as of preseason. They made that clear.

Yes, with Tebow at QB, they backed into the Division championship. But,
as I mentioned, the moment they won it was when Oakland blocked two
straight FGs in their second game against KC (the latter who beat the
Broncos just the week before). Tebow wasn't at that game . . .

-----

chazoe60
03-04-2012, 08:45 PM
I guess Tebow has done nothing as a pro? Is that what we're to believe? Jeesus, a loser throws for three hundred yards a few times to get us to 10 point losses instead of 20 point losses and we're all to believe the team was holding him back and a second year pro comes in with the same team takes them to the playoffs and wins a game in the postseason and we're all to believe he was dragging the team backwards?


I'm freaking confused.

MOtorboat
03-04-2012, 08:49 PM
I've learned you are less objective than most of the Tebow nuthuggers.

But still more objective than MO, so there is that.

So, for example, what have I not been objective about?

Specifics please.

slim
03-04-2012, 08:50 PM
I don't perceive that the FO obviously feels Tebow is capable. They named
him starter as of preseason. They made that clear.

Yes, with Tebow at QB, they backed into the Division championship. But,
as I mentioned, the moment they won it was when Oakland blocked two
straight FGs in their second game against KC (the latter who beat the
Broncos just the week before). Tebow wasn't at that game . . .

-----

Just the facts, Ma'am.

I will list the facts for you, again. Try and pay attention this time.

1. Tim Tebow is the starting QB of the Denver Broncos.
2. The Broncos won the division last year with Tim playing the QB position.
3. The Broncos won a playoff game with Tim playing the QB position.

The rest is conjecture, Matlock.

slim
03-04-2012, 08:51 PM
So, for example, what have I not been objective about?

Specifics please.

About your "tiny" white ass, for one thing.

Anyway, I was just messing with you. You are pretty objective.

You are just wrong about Tebow.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 08:55 PM
Just the facts, Ma'am.

I will list the facts for you, again. Try and pay attention this time.

1. Tim Tebow is the starting QB of the Denver Broncos.
2. The Broncos won the division last year with Tim playing the QB position.
3. The Broncos won a playoff game with Tim playing the QB position.

The rest is conjecture, Matlock.

Sorry, but what I said about the moment the Broncos won the AFCW is not
conjecture. It is fact. Had KC completed one of those FGs, Denver would
have been sitting at home, watching KC against Pittsburgh. That is fact . . .

-----

dogfish
03-04-2012, 08:56 PM
I don't perceive that the FO obviously feels Tebow is capable. They named
him starter as of preseason. They made that clear.

Yes, with Tebow at QB, they backed into the Division championship. But,
as I mentioned, the moment they won it was when Oakland blocked two
straight FGs in their second game against KC (the latter who beat the
Broncos just the week before). Tebow wasn't at that game . . .

-----

did we also back into beating pittsburgh, top?

dogfish
03-04-2012, 08:57 PM
So, for example, what have I not been objective about?

Specifics please.

MO, you do NOT wanna test slimgator right now, the fatass has been on fire all day. . .

slim
03-04-2012, 08:58 PM
Sorry, but what I said about the moment the Broncos won the AFCW is not
conjecture. It is fact. Had KC completed one of those FGs, Denver would
have been sitting at home, watching KC against Pittsburgh. That is fact . . .

-----

Spin it how you want. Denver won the division. That is a fact.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 08:59 PM
did we also back into beating pittsburgh, top?

Why do so many here keep bringing up one game? How about the next game,
against NE? Did Denver back into that one? Or the one before, against KC?
Did they back into that one, in which they scored all of three (3) points, BTW?

When the NFL shortens the regular season to one game and Denver wins that
one, then let's talk. But 8-8? Tell me, in what other Division would Denver
have sniffed the playoffs with an 8-8 record?

Yes, I had fun watching that one game. But I'm not impressed . . .

-----

topscribe
03-04-2012, 09:01 PM
Spin it how you want. Denver won the division. That is a fact.

Right. Denver won it. So put Tebow into the HOF. Now.

-----

chazoe60
03-04-2012, 09:02 PM
Man, sucks to not be allowed to enjoy a season in which your team wins a playoff game. Damn I hate being a fan of a team who doesn't deserve anything.

dogfish
03-04-2012, 09:03 PM
Sorry, but what I said about the moment the Broncos won the AFCW is not
conjecture. It is fact. Had KC completed one of those FGs, Denver would
have been sitting at home, watching KC against Pittsburgh. That is fact . . .

-----

had KC beaten buffalo, or detroit, or san diego the first time, or miami, or denver the first time, or new england, pittsburgh or the jets, KC would have won the division-- fact. . . had oakland or san diego won more games than denver, then one of those teams would have won the division-- fact. . . had denver beaten new england, denver would have gone to the super bowl-- fact. . .

some facts are more relevant than others. . . namely, the facts of what actually happened. . .

;) :D

topscribe
03-04-2012, 09:04 PM
I guess some of you guys have run out of answers.

Have a good night. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

BORDERLINE
03-04-2012, 09:05 PM
Why do so many here keep bringing up one game? How about the next game,
against NE? Did Denver back into that one? Or the one before, against KC?
Did they back into that one, in which they scored all of three (3) points, BTW?

When the NFL shortens the regular season to one game and Denver wins that
one, then let's talk. But 8-8? Tell me, in what other Division would Denver
have sniffed the playoffs with an 8-8 record?

Yes, I had fun watching that one game. But I'm not impressed . . .

-----

I highly doubt that if any other QB not named Tebow would have done that TOP specially Orton, you would have sang his praises all over town. Just saying

dogfish
03-04-2012, 09:05 PM
Man, sucks to not be allowed to enjoy a season in which your team wins a playoff game. Damn I hate being a fan of a team who doesn't deserve anything.

we didn't score enough style points, buddy. . .

top ain't impressed. . .


:sadfingpanda:

chazoe60
03-04-2012, 09:07 PM
Didn't the Giants finish the regular season 9-7? That's only one game better than the pathetic lucky Broncos. Guess they shouldn't take any pride in their season either.

BORDERLINE
03-04-2012, 09:08 PM
MO, you do NOT wanna test slimgator right now, the fatass has been on fire all day. . .

SLIMGATOR :rofl:

slim
03-04-2012, 09:09 PM
Why do so many here keep bringing up one game? How about the next game,
against NE? Did Denver back into that one? Or the one before, against KC?
Did they back into that one, in which they scored all of three (3) points, BTW?

When the NFL shortens the regular season to one game and Denver wins that
one, then let's talk. But 8-8? Tell me, in what other Division would Denver
have sniffed the playoffs with an 8-8 record?

Yes, I had fun watching that one game. But I'm not impressed . . .

-----

Good point. We should just ignore all of the positves from last year. To hell with those happy moments, we don't need 'em.

Instead, let's just make a laundry list of everything that went poorly. That is what being objective is all about.


Right. Denver won it. So put Tebow into the HOF. Now.

-----

Yes, that is what I am advocating....that Tim should be enshrined in the HOF tomorrow.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 09:13 PM
I highly doubt that if any other QB not named Tebow would have done that TOP specially Orton, you would have sang his praises all over town. Just saying

You'll never know, Border. Because Orton never did play that badly with
that good of a defense and running game, not even when he was playing
on two high ankle sprains.

But I guess you have a hard time reading my posts. Especially where I said
Orton is gone and is not a factor here. I'll tell you what: Since BroncoStud
wants so badly to discuss Orton, why don't you strike up a conversation
with him? I'm sure he'll gladly accommodate you.

Now, I hope the remainder of the posters here go back and read the title
of this thread. It has the name "Tim Tebow" in it, with no mention of Kyle
Orton . . .

-----

topscribe
03-04-2012, 09:18 PM
Good point. We should just ignore all of the positves from last year. To hell with those happy moments, we don't need 'em.

Instead, let's just make a laundry list of everything that went poorly. That is what being objective is all about.

Yes, that is what I am advocating....that Tim should be enshrined in the HOF tomorrow.

Okay. It's gotten down now to putting words into my mouth. As I said, there
apparently are going to be no more answers.

-----

dogfish
03-04-2012, 09:18 PM
Why do so many here keep bringing up one game? How about the next game,
against NE? Did Denver back into that one?

uhh, no-- denver EARNED their way into that game by stomping a tough pittsburgh team. . . :wave:

Or the one before, against KC?
Did they back into that one, in which they scored all of three (3) points, BTW?

no, again-- they kind of have to play the games the league schedules. . . i guess i'm really not sure how you "back into" a regular season game. . .

actually, wait. . . you're the one who made the accusation of "backing in" in the first place-- why are you asking me?
-----

we beat a good pitt team, and lost to an excellent, veteran, playoff-tested new england team that we don't match up well against personnel-wise. . . no shame at ALL in that for a young team with a raw sophmore quarterback, new head coach and new defensive coordinator going against a first ballot HOF QB and likely HOF coach. . .

clearly, we have a long way to go. . . winning a playoff game (against a traditional playoff bully, nonetheless) was a significant step in the right direction for our very young team, though. . . you have to start somewhere-- going from the second pick in the draft to super bowl champions in one season was never a realistic expectation. . . granted, now we have to come back and build something on it-- but it seems small and bitter to deny any credit at all. . .

slim
03-04-2012, 09:19 PM
okay. It's gotten down now to putting words into my mouth. As i said, there
apparently are going to be no more answers.

-----


LOL. What words did I put in your mouf?

BORDERLINE
03-04-2012, 09:19 PM
I can't F'N wait until the season starts!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And we get to talk about what matters actual games not this back and forth about WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN, WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED, WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 09:22 PM
we beat a good pitt team, and lost to an excellent, veteran, playoff-tested new england team that we don't match up well against personnel-wise. . . no shame at ALL in that for a young team with a raw sophmore quarterback, new head coach and new defensive coordinator going against a first ballot HOF QB and likely HOF coach. . .

clearly, we have a long way to go. . . winning a playoff game (against a traditional playoff bully, nonetheless) was a significant step in the right direction for our very young team, though. . . you have to start somewhere-- going from the second pick in the draft to super bowl champions in one season was never a realistic expectation. . . granted, now we have to come back and build something on it-- but it seems small and bitter to deny any credit at all. . .

You're right: It does seem small and bitter to deny any credit at all.

Who did that, anyway?

As I mentioned, words are being put into my mouth, and this post of yours
is no exception. But no biggie . . . it just seems the M.O. of many here . . .

-----

slim
03-04-2012, 09:24 PM
Why do so many here keep bringing up one game? How about the next game,
against NE? Did Denver back into that one? Or the one before, against KC?
Did they back into that one, in which they scored all of three (3) points, BTW?

When the NFL shortens the regular season to one game and Denver wins that
one, then let's talk. But 8-8? Tell me, in what other Division would Denver
have sniffed the playoffs with an 8-8 record?

Yes, I had fun watching that one game. But I'm not impressed . . .

-----

Sorry, Top....I thought this was your post.

I didn't realize these were not your words.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 09:24 PM
LOL. What words did I put in your mouf?

Slim, if you're going to start mocking me, then you have nothing to say to me.

Damn, why can't we discuss issues without it deteriorating into something like this? :tsk:

-----

dogfish
03-04-2012, 09:29 PM
LOL. What words did I put in your mouf?



Right. Denver won it. So put Tebow into the HOF. Now.

-----



Yes, that is what I am advocating....that Tim should be enshrined in the HOF tomorrow.

clearly, you are putting words in his mouth. . .

slim
03-04-2012, 09:30 PM
Slim, if you're going to start mocking me, then you have nothing to say to me.

Damn, why can't we discuss issues without it deteriorating into something like this? :tsk:

-----

I honestly don't know what you mean.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 09:32 PM
Sorry, Top....I thought this was your post.

I didn't realize these were not your words.


Good point. We should just ignore all of the positves from last year. To hell with those happy moments, we don't need 'em.

Instead, let's just make a laundry list of everything that went poorly. That is what being objective is all about.


And these are your words, right? "Ignore all the positives"? "Make a laundry
list of everything that went poorly"? When did I decide to do that? You tell
me since you apparently can read my mind. I was talking about one player's
shortcomings -- which, BTW, I am anything but alone on this board.

But when you cannot intelligently answer what I have said, up comes
remarks such as what has appeared recently.

So be it. Carry on. :coffee:

-----

topscribe
03-04-2012, 09:33 PM
clearly, you are putting words in his mouth. . .

That's "mouf" . . .

-----

slim
03-04-2012, 09:36 PM
And these are your words, right? "Ignore all the positives"? "Make a laundry
list of everything that went poorly"? When did I decide to do that? You tell
me since you apparently can read my mind. I was talking about one player's
shortcomings -- which, BTW, I am anything but alone on this board.

But when you cannot intelligently answer what I have said, up comes
remarks such as what has appeared recently.

So be it. Carry on. :coffee:

-----

You mean like this?


Right. Denver won it. So put Tebow into the HOF. Now. -----

Look, your questions have been answered, IMO. You just choose to ignore the answers. That's your right, I suppose.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 09:57 PM
You mean like this?



Look, your questions have been answered, IMO. You just choose to ignore the answers. That's your right, I suppose.


No, like this:



Right. And it's my bias that caused a 46.5% comp rate, 14 fumbles, and
miserably inconsistent play. My powers are amazing . . .

-----


Don't mistake my intent Bryce, I will not discount 'luck' from some of those victories, because to do so would be pure ignorance. And I also realize that a good portion of the equation in some of those wins heralded from Tebow's uncanny intangibles. I'm not making excuses, I have no reason to do so in such an argument, as you well know.

Tebow was as much a part of the team having to come from behind as he was for rallying the offense in order to pull off the comeback. It wouldn't have been necessary if he had the knowledge and mechanics to play the position as required at this level and could do so for more then one or two quarters. The Pittsburgh game was the only game this past season where it looked as if he was actually playing all four quarters, so what's the excuse the other times? What's the excuse for him to not even be able to play a decent game against mediocre defenses? Discount the fact that he sucked more often then not and couldn't barely pass the football against horrific defenses and then play only one solid game, one in which he actually looked like a quarterback. Sorry, I'm more realistic then that.


So you really think Tebow took the Broncos to all those wins? It has been
clearly presented that the defense improved while the offense declined after
Tebow took over. This is a fact. The defense allowed less points, and the
offense scored less points.

When Tebow can complete more of his passes, when he can include the
right side of the field in his offense, when he can read defenses and check
down, when he can stop staring down receivers, when he can pass into
tighter windows, when he can fumble less . . . that is when most of us will
be a bit more glad he is the QB . . .

-----


And neither did Tebow, IMO. Yes, he did conduct a couple amazing last
minute drives, but the defense is what got him there while he played
miserably the previous 55 minutes of the game.

I have openly said Orton needs to learn to be a better closer. But Orton is
gone. He is no longer part of the story here. Tebow is. And it remains that
Tebow just was not a good QB most of the time. He just wasn't, sorry. :shrugs:

-----


I don't perceive that the FO obviously feels Tebow is capable. They named
him starter as of preseason. They made that clear.

Yes, with Tebow at QB, they backed into the Division championship. But,
as I mentioned, the moment they won it was when Oakland blocked two
straight FGs in their second game against KC (the latter who beat the
Broncos just the week before). Tebow wasn't at that game . . .

-----


Sorry, but what I said about the moment the Broncos won the AFCW is not
conjecture. It is fact. Had KC completed one of those FGs, Denver would
have been sitting at home, watching KC against Pittsburgh. That is fact . . .

-----


Why do so many here keep bringing up one game? How about the next game,
against NE? Did Denver back into that one? Or the one before, against KC?
Did they back into that one, in which they scored all of three (3) points, BTW?

When the NFL shortens the regular season to one game and Denver wins that
one, then let's talk. But 8-8? Tell me, in what other Division would Denver
have sniffed the playoffs with an 8-8 record?

Yes, I had fun watching that one game. But I'm not impressed . . .

-----


From this, you have deduced that I had no fun during the season, saw
nothing positive, can't admit positive things, etc. I guess, as I implied, when
you have no answers, that is what you must resort to. Guess it just doesn't
pay to try to be realistic on this board. Guess we just gotta be Tebow
nuthuggers, as they say.

Well, when I see some real, consistent QB play out of Tebow, I will join in
with my praises of him. Oh, BTW, he's a terrific runner . . .

-----

slim
03-04-2012, 10:07 PM
No, like this:


From this, you have deduced that I had no fun during the season, saw
nothing positive, can't admit positive things, etc. I guess, as I implied, when
you have no answers, that is what you must resort to. Guess it just doesn't
pay to try to be realistic on this board. Guess we just gotta be Tebow
nuthuggers, as they say.

Well, when I see some real, consistent QB play out of Tebow, I will join in
with my praises of him. Oh, BTW, he's a terrific runner . . .

-----

Yep, that is what I deduced, because that is the way you are presenting your argument.

Go back and reread all of the posts you just quoted. Now, where exactly are the positives mentioned your posts? Oh, that's right...there aren't any. In fact, when someone tried to balance out your negativity, by mentioning the performance in the playoff win, you pooh-poohed it (didn't even really acknowledge it).

So, when all you can do is highlight the negative, then I am going to say you are not being objective. I'm not sure what else you would expect.

BeefStew25
03-04-2012, 10:09 PM
Top, you act like Tebow has been in the league for 5 years.

Newsflash: young QB's are inconsistent and sometimes downright shitty.

There are glimpses to Tebow being a total stud, and there are glimpses to him being Eric Crotch.

Jets game. Played like shit all game. The media darling Sanchez shits his pants, and Tebow mans up and wins the game.

Dude is young, and is going to learn. This last season was so much cseffing fun because we all planned on going 4-12.

WE WON A FREAKING PLAYOFF GAME!

Take your Metamucil, and push hard, bitter old man.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 10:12 PM
Yep, that is what I deduced, because that is the way you are presenting your argument.

Go back and reread all of the posts you just quoted. Now, where exactly are the positives mentioned your posts? Oh, that's right...there aren't any. In fact, when someone tried to balance out your negativity, by mentioning the performance in the playoff win, you pooh-poohed it (didn't even really acknowledge it).

So, when all you can do is highlight the negative, then I am going to say you are not being objective. I'm not sure what else you would expect.

And this is all I have ever said about it, right here in this thread, right, Slim?
I have never, ever said anything else about it outside this thread, right? In
this thread, on this board . . . nowhere else, right?

I see. Well, next time I want to find out what I have posted and what all I
have meant by it, I'll come to you. Okay? I wish I had known this before: It
surely would have saved a lot of time and keystrokes . . . :nod:

-----

BeefStew25
03-04-2012, 10:14 PM
Quit menstrating Top.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 10:16 PM
Top, you act like Tebow has been in the league for 5 years.

Newsflash: young QB's are inconsistent and sometimes downright shitty.

There are glimpses to Tebow being a total stud, and there are glimpses to him being Eric Crotch.

Jets game. Played like shit all game. The media darling Sanchez shits his pants, and Tebow mans up and wins the game.

Dude is young, and is going to learn. This last season was so much cseffing fun because we all planned on going 4-12.

WE WON A FREAKING PLAYOFF GAME!

Take your Metamucil, and push hard, bitter old man.

Wow, before, I was always made fun of because of my optimism. Now I'm a
bitter old man.

Hey, I'm sorry I tarnished "your" board with my posts. Let's start a movement
to rename this board. Let's call it "BroncosFreak."

-----

slim
03-04-2012, 10:20 PM
And this is all I have ever said about it, right here in this thread, right, Slim?
I have never, ever said anything else about it outside this thread, right? In
this thread, on this board . . . nowhere else, right?

I see. Well, next time I want to find out what I have posted and what all I
have meant by it, I'll come to you. Okay? I wish I had known this before: It
surely would have saved a lot of time and keystrokes . . . :nod:

-----

I don't know Top and I don't care. I mean, I didn't realize I needed to review every one of your posts before I jumped into this thread.

What I do know is that you have been completely subjective in THIS thread. I mean the thread right here, were we are having this discussion.

Shazam!
03-04-2012, 10:22 PM
Seriously, you guys need to chill.

I dont get to post as often as Id like (right now Im on my phone) brcause of work and whatnot, but to come in and read shit like this is sad.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 10:28 PM
I don't know Top and I don't care. I mean, I didn't realize I needed to review every one of your posts before I jumped into this thread.

What I do know is that you have been completely subjective in THIS thread. I mean the thread right here, were we are having this discussion.

Right. So every damned time I post with a criticism of a player, I just must
qualify it with an accompanying positive post. You know, I can understand
where posters don't like personal insults, but I have never seen such a thin
skin over a player. Wow.

Even when one is supportive of a player when it disagrees with others! During
the time I supported Orton, I always discussed issues, never launching attacks
on another poster over it, except (unadvisably) at times in retaliation. I said
critical things about him, but I was accused of never saying anything negative.

Now, it's that I never say anything positive because I am presently being
critical. It just doesn't seem to pay to discuss anything intelligently on a
football message board . . .

-----

BeefStew25
03-04-2012, 10:29 PM
Top, don't type at me in that tone! This is my board!

slim
03-04-2012, 10:33 PM
Right. So every damned time I post with a criticism of a player, I just must
qualify it with an accompanying positive post. You know, I can understand
where posters don't like personal insults, but I have never seen such a thin
skin over a player. Wow.

Even when one is supportive of a player when it disagrees with others! During
the time I supported Orton, I always discussed issues, never launching attacks
on another poster over it, except (unadvisably) at times in retaliation. I said
critical things about him, but I was accused of never saying anything negative.

Now, it's that I never say anything positive because I am presently being
critical. It just doesn't seem to pay to discuss anything intelligently on a
football message board . . .

-----

Wait, I thought Orton was off limits? This is a thread about Tebow, right?

But I agree with the point of your post. You weren't very objective in discussing Orton and you have not been very objective here (in THIS thread). I am glad we could finally agree on that.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 10:35 PM
Wait, I thought Orton was off limits? This is a thread about Tebow, right?

But I agree with the point of your post. You weren't very objective in discussing Orton and you have not been very objective here (in THIS thread). I am glad we could finally agree on that.

From this, should I infer that you have problems with reading comprehension?

-----

BeefStew25
03-04-2012, 10:36 PM
Kyle Orton is not walking through that door, men.

slim
03-04-2012, 10:37 PM
Beef, only Top is allowed to talk about Orton in this thread.

Please delete or modify your post ASAP.

BeefStew25
03-04-2012, 10:37 PM
My daughters cat just puked. Debating whether to play dumb so my wife can clean up in the morning or be a contributing member of the household and clean it up.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 10:38 PM
Beef, only Top is allowed to talk about Orton in this thread.

Please delete or modify your post ASAP.

From this, should I infer that you have problems with reading comprehension?

-----

BeefStew25
03-04-2012, 10:39 PM
Beef, only Top is allowed to talk about Orton in this thread.

Please delete or modify your post ASAP.

Hey, Slim, did you know he made the first post ever here? Show the man the respect he craves.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 10:40 PM
Hey, Slim, did you know he made the first post ever here? Show the man the respect he craves.

Doesn't make any difference now.

The Freaks are the big thing here now.

-----

slim
03-04-2012, 10:42 PM
You'll never know, Border. Because Orton never did play that badly with
that good of a defense and running game, not even when he was playing
on two high ankle sprains.

But I guess you have a hard time reading my posts. Especially where I said
Orton is gone and is not a factor here. I'll tell you what: Since BroncoStud
wants so badly to discuss Orton, why don't you strike up a conversation
with him? I'm sure he'll gladly accommodate you.

Now, I hope the remainder of the posters here go back and read the title
of this thread. It has the name "Tim Tebow" in it, with no mention of Kyle
Orton . . .

-----


From this, should I infer that you have problems with reading comprehension?

-----

Yeah, it appears that one of us has a problem with comprehension.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 10:44 PM
Yeah, it appears that one of us has a problem with comprehension.

Surely does. Therefore, I won't address you anymore . . . if you can read this.

-----

slim
03-04-2012, 10:44 PM
Hey, Slim, did you know he made the first post ever here? Show the man the respect he craves.

Oh shit, I didn't know.

Topper, you da man.

BeefStew25
03-04-2012, 10:52 PM
As Morgan Freeman said, "Get busy posting, or get busy masterbating."

Canmore
03-04-2012, 10:53 PM
I don't perceive that the FO obviously feels Tebow is capable. They named
him starter as of preseason. They made that clear.

Yes, with Tebow at QB, they backed into the Division championship. But,
as I mentioned, the moment they won it was when Oakland blocked two
straight FGs in their second game against KC (the latter who beat the
Broncos just the week before). Tebow wasn't at that game . . .

-----

At least we won the division and a playoff game. We haven't done that since 2005. Would I like a more polished quarterback? Yes, but where are we going to get said quarterback? Free agency, the draft. With us picking were we are I don't see the solution and I don't see an obvious solution in free agency. We have Tebow and it looks like to me we are going to sink or swim with him.

Thnikkaman
03-04-2012, 10:57 PM
:lol:I wonder what the cat is thinking.

If it didn't have the foil on its head, you could read its mind.

topscribe
03-04-2012, 10:57 PM
Seriously, you guys need to chill.

I dont get to post as often as Id like (right now Im on my phone) brcause of work and whatnot, but to come in and read shit like this is sad.

Isn't that the truth? Well, I guess not all of us are interested in discussing the issues.

-----

BeefStew25
03-04-2012, 11:09 PM
Top, I have an honest question for you.

slim
03-04-2012, 11:12 PM
At least we won the division and a playoff game. We haven't done that since 2005. Would I like a more polished quarterback? Yes, but where are we going to get said quarterback? Free agency, the draft. With us picking were we are I don't see the solution and I don't see an obvious solution in free agency. We have Tebow and it looks like to me we are going to sink or swim with him.

A very well reasoned post.

From this, I infer that you are reasonable.

Nomad
03-04-2012, 11:13 PM
:fish2:

slim
03-04-2012, 11:17 PM
:fish2:

I haven't been fishing in forever.

Nomad, how many times a year do you go?

Nomad
03-04-2012, 11:21 PM
I haven't been fishing in forever.

Nomad, how many times a year do you go?

As soon as the ice breaks up and goes anyway.....every weekend as long as my boys don't have a baseball game.

Too bad it's about a month or 2 away.....I still have 3' of snow in my yard.

dogfish
03-04-2012, 11:21 PM
I haven't been fishing in forever.

Nomad, how many times a week do you go?

fyp

Canmore
03-04-2012, 11:27 PM
A very well reasoned post.

From this, I infer that you are reasonable.

Not a Tebow nuthugger but I am a fan. I felt the team played harder with Tebow at the helm. The kid seems to be a winner. I know there are a lot of way to spin the Broncos performance this season but I liked the competitiveness of Tebow. I sure would like to see a little more polish but this was only his second season. To me, it is worth another look.

slim
03-04-2012, 11:32 PM
Not a Tebow nuthugger but I am a fan. I felt the team played harder with Tebow at the helm. The kid seems to be a winner. I know there are a lot of way to spin the Broncos performance this season but I liked the competitiveness of Tebow. I sure would like to see a little more polish but this was only his second season. To me, it is worth another look.

Agee 100%.

I think most of his flaws (and there are plenty) can be fixed....maybe not in one offseason, but hopefully we see significant improvement by middle of next season.

Canmore
03-04-2012, 11:38 PM
Agree 100%.

I think most of his flaws (and there are plenty) can be fixed....maybe not in one offseason, but hopefully we see significant improvement by middle of next season.

I am looking for significant improvement by Tebow. An actual off season can only be huge. The kid needs work, that's a given but he brings a lot to the table. At least one full season as the starter is what I would like to see. If nothing else, I don't see a viable alternative.

BeefStew25
03-04-2012, 11:39 PM
I guess Top nodded off in the Lazy Boy. I bet his ol lady put an afghan on him and turned off the TV.