PDA

View Full Version : McDaniels is a disappointment and the Cutler show is no more



Hawgdriver
03-22-2009, 02:31 AM
McDaniels is a disappointment. For an offensive genius, he should have seen the angles better than he did. He ended up trying to convince Jay that even though there wasn't a cloud in the sky, and even though his junk was out with the faucet turned on, and even though Jay's slacks were getting damp and starting to stick to his leg, that even though there was all that, McDaniels had to somehow convince Jay it was just the rain. He didn't. This is our new head coach. He is not a good head coach.

My hopes for the Jay Cutler dynasty are crushed. I don't see a reconciliation. The gas can is discarded and empty and Jay's on the other side of the bridge with a lit match. If you look into Jay's eyes you can see his pupils appear as extended middle fingers. I wanted to see the Jay Cutler dynasty. He throws the ball so damn well that that alone is entertainment on a par with the blue man group in Vegas or that one act in Tong-du-chon involving ping pong balls and bananas. Somehow in this debate the fact that Jay Cutler is a freakishly good passer of the football isn't being remembered as well as it should be. I don't know that he's an uber-talent or anything in terms of getting us to championships--I do think he might have it in him--but just for the joy of watching him throw the ball I'm bummed to see him leave.

But through it all we are fortunate to have none other than the voice of the Broncos, Jabar Gaffney, provide the local sports beat writers some praise for McDaniels. That lifts the mood a bit. McDaniels is either the Boss or the BOSS, so that's our firmament in these chaotic times. He is the certainty. That warms the frostbit hands like a railcar of liquid nitrogen. I don't see the players rallying to his cause because many of them trusted Jay and Jay was lied to, so they have to feel a sting of betrayal from the new coach. A culture of distrust and disloyalty--first impressions are strong and lasting--can be a difficult culture to change.

Jay's already boned McDaniels' wife and sister and McDaniels has shot Jay's dog and left a steamer in his coffee. There is no couples counseling and no happy ever after. I love the Broncos but it sure looks like this team sucks.

I only got to this point after I took a month of deep breathing and finally taking a giant step back and looking at it like it was someone else's team. Like I was evaluating the Jags or the Vikings or something. At this point, that's almost how this feels, and that is awful.

WARHORSE
03-22-2009, 03:41 AM
Hey, look at the bright side..........if Cutler is traded, we may get to see Jeff Garcia throw his pin point 10 yarders for a completion, and cheer.


woot.

anton...
03-22-2009, 08:22 AM
its times like these when real optimists and pessimists cant fake who they are...

i for one think jay will be our franchise until i see jay wearing another uniform...

and let me tell you, it feels relaxed...

nevcraw
03-22-2009, 09:15 AM
its times like these when real optimists and pessimists cant fake who they are...

i for one think jay will be our franchise until i see jay wearing another uniform...

and let me tell you, it feels relaxed...

where do the realists line up?

claymore
03-22-2009, 09:38 AM
For McDaniels to be labeled a disappointment thus far is an understatement. Its the worst transfer of power ive ever seen.

Regardless of what anyone says, Jay isnt handling things as bad as its portrayed. His comments to the media have been normal from the hip stuff.

I dont know what McD has said in private, but whatever it was made things worse. They will swallow they're pride and extend Cutler.

It would seriously take 2 first round picks, and another high one for our team to be better off. Even then, I dont think it would be. One bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-22-2009, 10:14 AM
Give it A Rest. Dude has yet to coach a single game for us. How are ya gonna turn tail if he ends up being a winner?

Requiem / The Dagda
03-22-2009, 10:45 AM
Come on SA, don't be logical here. The die is already cast. McDaniels is a loser and you know it. /sarcasm

claymore
03-22-2009, 10:46 AM
Give it A Rest. Dude has yet to coach a single game for us. How are ya gonna turn tail if he ends up being a winner?

I will still think he handled the first 3 months of his tenure like a douche bag.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 10:46 AM
Give it A Rest. Dude has yet to coach a single game for us. How are ya gonna turn tail if he ends up being a winner?

With or without Cutler...

SmilinAssasSin27
03-22-2009, 10:50 AM
does it matter? I personally want Cutty to stay and am by no means PRO-either of them (although I am ANTI-Bus Cook), but I'm hardly gonna call the dude a failure after 3 months. Maybe he's right and for all of Cutler's ability, his decision making does not fit his system. And maybe, just maybe, his system can succeed w/ a very good, very patient QB. And maybe he'll fail miserably and some of you will be right. I prefer to actually wait and see.

claymore
03-22-2009, 10:53 AM
does it matter? I personally want Cutty to stay and am by no means PRO-either of them (although I am ANTI-Bus Cook), but I'm hardly gonna call the dude a failure after 3 months. Maybe he's right and for all of Cutler's ability, his decision maing does not fit his system. And maybe, just maybe, his system can succeed w/ a very good, very patient QB. And maybe he'll fail miserably and some of you will be right. I prefer to actually wait and see.

Thats all we can do. But I cant help but be upset from what Ive seen thus far. If We lose Cutler, and McDaniels ends up being a toolbag, we are screwed for a very long time. And that scenario scares the hell out of me.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-22-2009, 10:55 AM
Why are we screwed for a very long time? Nice false dilemma, Clay.

claymore
03-22-2009, 11:00 AM
Why are we screwed for a very long time? Nice false dilemma, Clay.

Oh I dont know, If Mcdaniels is a douche and he trades our QB, then fails as a game time coach, I would think we would be starting from scratch in 3-5 years.

You are under the assumption that....

1. McDaniels is a good HC, and .....

2 if we trade Cutler for picks, that they will end up being solid picks.

The only known fact is that Cutler is very young, and an above average QB. Any scenario outside of keeping him is a huge Gamble with huge repercussions.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-22-2009, 11:02 AM
I'm actually not under that assumption at all. Don't be so bold Claymore. Baby steps. If you wanna take risks, start out with mixing Cheerios with Fruity Pebbles. Tasty.

atwater27
03-22-2009, 11:05 AM
Why are we screwed for a very long time? Nice false dilemma, Clay.

From someone with the penchant for overusing the term 'false dilemma', you should at least know a 'non-false dilemma' when you see one. Otherwise nobody will believe your categorizations of false dimemmas and you will lose meaning to one of your trademark sayings. We lose Cutler, we are most definitely screwed for a long time. At the very least the long time it takes a rookie to develop or the long time it takes for a decent free agent QB to become available. Meanwhile our #2 offense drops somewher near the ranking of our vaunted defense. The good news? We get to spend big money on top 5 picks for awhile.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-22-2009, 11:08 AM
Try again, Atwater.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 11:10 AM
Meanwhile our #2 offense drops ...

We were 16th in scoring. Yards mean nothing without points.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-22-2009, 11:11 AM
Good point Joe. I can't wait to see that one get tackled.

Northman
03-22-2009, 11:39 AM
Well, the continued saga that is JCut/McD continues to roll on. Jabar Gaffney gave McD praise? Wow, who would of thunk it considering the guy played for the man. How the **** would he know how McD is right? God forbid you cant trust the word of somebody you worked with. lmao

Not only that but even Jay's good friend Eddie Royal had nice things to say about McD. I guess Hawk missed those quotes. Dumervil? He didnt really sway one way or the other but he said he felt it would all work out in the end but again, what would he know? He's just a fan on a message board and not actually a player on the team. Just cant trust players who are actually playing the game can we? We all know so much better here. Sometimes this board just makes me shake my head.

atwater27
03-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Try again, Atwater.

Your elaborate response floored me. I am speechless.

atwater27
03-22-2009, 12:43 PM
We were 16th in scoring. Yards mean nothing without points.

That is a good point Joe. And Cicero will be disappointed in my tackling ability on this one. Maybe if we had a better running game to help punch some scores in it would have made a difference. Either way, I am sure any QB would be able to improve that ranking. Cutler is a chump and only made our team worse.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-22-2009, 01:21 PM
That is a good point Joe. And Cicero will be disappointed in my tackling ability on this one. Maybe if we had a better running game to help punch some scores in it would have made a difference. Either way, I am sure any QB would be able to improve that ranking. Cutler is a chump and only made our team worse.

A quality example of. . .

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/33814183_bc322c7343.jpg

atwater27
03-22-2009, 01:32 PM
A quality example of. . .

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/33814183_bc322c7343.jpg

COme on man. elaboration.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 03:40 PM
That is a good point Joe. And Cicero will be disappointed in my tackling ability on this one. Maybe if we had a better running game to help punch some scores in it would have made a difference. Either way, I am sure any QB would be able to improve that ranking. Cutler is a chump and only made our team worse.

Just to be clear, I don't want Cutler going anywhere. I want him as the Broncos QB for a long, long time. But, whether he is here or not will not alter my love for the organization.

Clearly, the lack of scoring does not fall solely on Cutler, but it certainly doesn't fall on the defense or running game solely either.

Perhaps there was a reason Shanahan was fired? Even with all the backs going down to injury, we still did well when we chose to run. Ranked pretty high in yards/carry and total yards. Just didn't have the attempts.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 03:47 PM
P.S. Don't give me the playing from behind crap. There were only three games out of our eight losses where it was pretty much over at the end of the third quarter.

Check it out.

Hawgdriver
03-22-2009, 04:16 PM
where do the realists line up?

McDaniels is talented and I would expect him to be a great X's and O's mind. But that's just one part of being a HC, and we haven't seen it yet. I can only make a judgment based on what I can observe so far. His job as HC is to avoid the kind of distraction we have now. He has done a poor job of that. I expect him to redeem himself to the degree he makes good on his potential of being a superb X and O guy. I think a realist would say that he's not a good head coach. We can only make guesses about the future; what's done is certain, and it's not good.

I like watching Cutler, think he's got a great arm, but to me all that matters is that the Broncos are an organization I can get behind spiritually and that they also kick ass. For Cutler to be a part of it would be icing.

There are a lot of what ifs but that's anyone's guess. What if the Broncos are winners this year? What if Cutler is still in a Broncos jersey? What if the Broncos collapse into a quagmire even more rank than this one? It's anyone's guess, and the uncertainty is as high as ever. You can safely that McDaniels is a terrible head coach, but you can't say that he will be a terrible head coach when the dust settles. But right now he is a terrible head coach. McDaniels is a disappointment.

It's too early to say that the Cutler show is over. He may play here this season. But this rift has so affected this fan that I would almost prefer he leave for the moral resolution of a clean departure. I don't want some kind of ongoing soap operatic team; I can't get into that team spiritually, or whatever it is you call that feeling inside like you want to belong to that organization.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 04:44 PM
His job as HC is to avoid the kind of distraction we have now.

You made some good points, but this statement needs to be addressed.

The job of a HC is to WIN GAMES. Players come and go. Winning is all that matters.

Period, end of story.

broncohead
03-22-2009, 04:52 PM
P.S. Don't give me the playing from behind crap. There were only three games out of our eight losses where it was pretty much over at the end of the third quarter.

Check it out.

So you expect us to score 30 or more points per game just to stay in it?

broncohead
03-22-2009, 04:52 PM
You made some good points, but this statement needs to be addressed.

The job of a HC is to WIN GAMES. Players come and go. Winning is all that matters.

Period, end of story.

But as the HC your job is to control the team as well.

Magnificent Seven
03-22-2009, 05:02 PM
They have one month left to burn the hatchet or make a final decision to trade Cutler. One month left.

Burn the hatchet or bust.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 05:05 PM
So you expect us to score 30 or more points per game just to stay in it?

No. I expect our offense not to turn the ball over 27 times by our two marquee players.


But as the HC your job is to control the team as well.

#1 is wins. Do you deny that?

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 05:06 PM
They have one month left to burn the hatchet or make a final decision to trade Cutler. One month left.

Burn the hatchet or bust.

I think the correct term is "bury the hatchet".

:D

Magnificent Seven
03-22-2009, 05:14 PM
I think the correct term is "bury the hatchet".

:D

OOPS! Bury the hatchet or bust! :D

Hawgdriver
03-22-2009, 05:16 PM
You made some good points, but this statement needs to be addressed.

The job of a HC is to WIN GAMES. Players come and go. Winning is all that matters.

Period, end of story.

You are right. We'll have to wait and see if he brings championships to Denver for final judgment.

My point is that his decisions and actions to this point have results that--while not losses in the loss column of the 2009 AFC West standings--are more like those losses than wins. Creating an environment like the one he has in his first few months on the job does more to lose games than win them. I believe that is a fair statement after observing him in his role as HC. How important these peripheral matters are to the job of claiming NFL championships I don't know. My experience with bosses and organizations is that the first impression is strong and lasting, and that organizational culture has an effect on organizational performance.

MOtorboat
03-22-2009, 05:22 PM
You are right. We'll have to wait and see if he brings championships to Denver for final judgment.

My point is that his decisions and actions to this point have results that--while not losses in the loss column of the 2009 AFC West standings--are more like those losses than wins. Creating an environment like the one he has in his first few months on the job does more to lose games than win them. I believe that is a fair statement after observing him in his role as HC. How important these peripheral matters are to the job of claiming NFL championships I don't know. My experience with bosses and organizations is that the first impression is strong and lasting, and that organizational culture has an effect on organizational performance.

He has one disgruntled, misinformed and childish player. That's it. He's also brought in character players such as Brian Dawkins, and quality coordinators like Mike Nolan.

Hell, he hasn't even had a draft yet! Its very hard to judge a coach/organization on three months of nothing but free agency, even if there were trades offered to the Broncos for our quarterback and they refused...which seems to be forgotten. The trades were REFUSED. I wish Cutler, and those swinging from his nuts would remember that.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 05:23 PM
First impressions apply to Cutler as well.

I'm willing to give McD a chance. Cutler has had his, with one of the greatest coaches ever.

claymore
03-22-2009, 05:27 PM
Just to be clear, I don't want Cutler going anywhere. I want him as the Broncos QB for a long, long time. But, whether he is here or not will not alter my love for the organization.

Clearly, the lack of scoring does not fall solely on Cutler, but it certainly doesn't fall on the defense or running game solely either.

Perhaps there was a reason Shanahan was fired? Even with all the backs going down to injury, we still did well when we chose to run. Ranked pretty high in yards/carry and total yards. Just didn't have the attempts.

Just because I dont like what Obama is doing doesnt mean I dont love America. It means Im conerned for its future, and my children will have to pay the price.

Same can be said with the Broncos.

claymore
03-22-2009, 05:29 PM
First impressions apply to Cutler as well.

I'm willing to give McD a chance. Cutler has had his, with one of the greatest coaches ever.

2.5 years, he set Broncos records. He is it dude. He is our stud QB. we cant let him go. He has provided the only excitement in 2 years.

MOtorboat
03-22-2009, 05:31 PM
Just because I dont like what Obama is doing doesnt mean I dont love America. It means Im conerned for its future, and my children will have to pay the price.

Same can be said with the Broncos.

No. Actually, it can't.

Obama has had his chance at a Congress in session, which is the equivalent to a season in the NFL. McDaniels hasn't had the chance to coach a season yet. Hell, he hasn't even had the chance to be a coach during the draft yet, and people are labeling him as a failure.

It's not a comparable situation, because the results can't be seen until next December, whereas the results of Obama's administrations are immediate.

Not a good comparison at all, and why don't we keep the politics out of the Broncos Talk.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 05:36 PM
2.5 years, he set Broncos records. He is it dude. He is our stud QB. we cant let him go. He has provided the only excitement in 2 years.

9-7 (after taking over a team that was 7-4, 13-3 the previous season)
7-9
8-8

No playoffs.

. . .

MOtorboat
03-22-2009, 05:39 PM
9-7 (after taking over a team that was 7-4, 13-3 the previous season)
7-9
8-8

No playoffs.

. . .

Judging a quarterback on win-loss records is stupid. :rolleyes:

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 05:42 PM
Judging a quarterback on win-loss records is stupid. :rolleyes:

Right. Elway's stats weren't the best, and Cutler's are better.

Never mind Elway retired the #1 QB in terms of games won.

That's irrelevant.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 05:46 PM
I just don't get all the love for Cutler. He's a talented QB, with tons of potential, but he has yet to really prove anything other than having all kinds of excuses for not winning since highschool.

Watchthemiddle
03-22-2009, 05:49 PM
Judging a quarterback on win-loss records is stupid. :rolleyes:

Exactly!!

I would rather have the next Dan Fouts and set individual records every year for most yards gained and 400 yard games than win games, go to the playoffs, and win the Super Bowl. :rolleyes:

silkamilkamonico
03-22-2009, 05:50 PM
McDaniels lack of "leadership" is a disappointment, and Cutler's "lack of character' is a disappointment. It's the perfect cap of what's been a steady downward spiral since 1999.

EMB6903
03-22-2009, 05:53 PM
Exactly!!

I would rather have the next Dan Fouts and set individual records every year for most yards gained and 400 yard games than win games, go to the playoffs, and win the Super Bowl. :rolleyes:

man you are ignorant... seriously

WINNING IS A TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT NOT A QUARTERBACK STATISTIC when will you get that through your head?

some people just dont get it.....:tsk:

Hawgdriver
03-22-2009, 05:57 PM
First impressions apply to Cutler as well.

I'm willing to give McD a chance. Cutler has had his, with one of the greatest coaches ever.

Sorry, but I don't understand your point. My first impression of Cutler was good. Lately it's hard to tell if he's just stubborn or being a *****.

I think everyone hopes McD does well. So far he has not. Let's hope he turns it around.

Cutler did reasonably well as a young qb with a crap defense.

This animosity between us fans is exactly what I'm talking about. Just look around, this is the Broncos now.

MOtorboat
03-22-2009, 06:04 PM
man you are ignorant... seriously

WINNING IS A TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT NOT A QUARTERBACK STATISTIC when will you get that through your head?

some people just dont get it.....:tsk:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/jeff%20george.jpg

MOtorboat
03-22-2009, 06:06 PM
Sorry, but I don't understand your point. My first impression of Cutler was good. Lately it's hard to tell if he's just stubborn or being a *****.

I think everyone hopes McD does well. So far he has not. Let's hope he turns it around.

Cutler did reasonably well as a young qb with a crap defense.

This animosity between us fans is exactly what I'm talking about. Just look around, this is the Broncos now.

Thread title: McDaniels is a disappointment and the Cutler show is no more

:noidea:

silkamilkamonico
03-22-2009, 06:07 PM
If Cutler had a team around him he'd be fine, although I am seriously concerned about his "character", or should I say, lack of it....I'm almost at the point where it isn't even worth it.

anton...
03-22-2009, 06:44 PM
where do the realists line up?

wherever you feel most relaxed...

;)



i watch football not to complain, but to enjoy all the positives that come from it and with it...

that is its purpose of existance in the end...

football exists to entertain and to be enjoyed...

and thats all that i will ever allow it to do to me...

there isnt a line to line up in, for any of us to make a difference...

so why the high blood pressure??

nthngd2say
03-22-2009, 07:51 PM
That is a good point Joe. And Cicero will be disappointed in my tackling ability on this one. Maybe if we had a better running game to help punch some scores in it would have made a difference. Either way, I am sure any QB would be able to improve that ranking. Cutler is a chump and only made our team worse.

While our running game certainly had a down season, finishing ranked 12th in the NFL overall and 14th in scoring with 7 RB injured is pretty damn good. Especially when the Broncos were 28th in the NFL overall in rushing attempts. The Broncos #2 ranked offense was also tied for 7th overall in turnovers with 30. To me, those stats could easily be attributed to coaching as Shanny calls the plays and his players didn't execute. Cutler threw several bad INT, Marshall had multiple fumbles in the red zone, Scheff had some bad fumbles in the red zone, etc.

The Cutler show will go on. He's not going to be traded. If he were though, the Broncos would not also suddenly be atrocious like the Lions or Faders in my opinion who have only finished 6-10 or better 4 times each since 1999. Griese [6-10] and Cutler [7-9] were the only QBs since 1999 to finish below 8-8. The Defense during that time has been ranked as high as 4th [2004-2005] and as low as 24th [2000]. So we have had both good and bad defenses but still been competitive and sans Cutler.

The Broncos also had the #2 offense for total yards and #2 scoring offense in 2000, #3 for yds and #7 scoring offense in 2002, the #5 for yds and #9 scoring in 2004 and the #5 for yds and #7 scoring in 2005. So we've had very good offenses and very good defenses [sometimes in the same season] before Cutler and only made the playoffs 5 times, winning only once.

That's head coaching to me. If the team is producing on both sides of the ball but not winning close games or turning the ball over too much or not putting teams away that comes down to coaching for me. Bowlen picked his new coach and based on the last 10 years, I'm willing/hoping for better results. I have no idea if Bowlen made the right choice but I'd rather judge that after the season is over. I know the majority of the media reports regarding McJaygate have been false/taken out of context [as they have been proven as such many times] so I'm not ready to judge either especially since no trade has been made. I will agree that both have made mistakes but so have other players and coaches in the last 15 years. I'm hoping that going through this fiasco will only make both of them more determined to succeed despite their critics. Could be a pipe dream.

Hawgdriver
03-22-2009, 08:32 PM
Thread title: McDaniels is a disappointment and the Cutler show is no more

:noidea:

Not trying to be difficult here, but I don't understand your point. You are over my head. I feel dumb. I wish I understood.

I don't have a dog in the fight. I am trying to look at this issue as objectively as possible, as if it was another team and I'm an outsider looking in.

I'm making a straightforward comment on the state of things. I think people with dogs in the fight are getting bent.

The Cutler as drama queen theory is a good one to secure the honor of the franchise, it just seems dubious to me. Everything points to Cutler's overweaning self pride and a strong sense of loyalty that was coolly betrayed. He is obviously at fault but not wholly to blame. McD played his Cassel trade poorly.

In my opinion Jay as drama queen is the best way for this to play out--Cutler gets traded and leaves with the drama queen tag, end of story, Broncos win. That is why I don't see Cutler here any longer--it's a poor move and one the leadership shouldn't make. McD as leader is responsible for getting into this shape.

nthngd2say
03-22-2009, 08:43 PM
From Rotoworld:
Broncos trying to mend fences with Jay Cutler

The Broncos are expected to continue trying to mend fences with Jay Cutler rather than put him on the trade block. The Broncos smartly realize that being able to acquire a quarterback of Cutler's caliber would be impossible, and they're "working hard to smooth over any ill feelings." The Owners' Meetings began Sunday and continue through Wednesday, so we'll see if the rumor mill heats up this week. Mar. 22 - 8:46 pm et

I still maintain that unless Cutler tells the Broncos he'll hold out or McDaniels says he needs to move on from Cutler that Jay won't be traded. Neither party thus far has given any ultimatums.

MOtorboat
03-22-2009, 08:45 PM
Not trying to be difficult here, but I don't understand your point. You are over my head. I feel dumb. I wish I understood.

I don't have a dog in the fight. I am trying to look at this issue as objectively as possible, as if it was another team and I'm an outsider looking in.

I'm making a straightforward comment on the state of things. I think people with dogs in the fight are getting bent.

The Cutler as drama queen theory is a good one to secure the honor of the franchise, it just seems dubious to me. Everything points to Cutler's overweaning self pride and a strong sense of loyalty that was coolly betrayed. He is obviously at fault but not wholly to blame. McD played his Cassel trade poorly.

In my opinion Jay as drama queen is the best way for this to play out--Cutler gets traded and leaves with the drama queen tag, end of story, Broncos win. That is why I don't see Cutler here any longer--it's a poor move and one the leadership shouldn't make. McD as leader is responsible for getting into this shape.

By saying that McDaniels is a disappointment, you completely betray everything that you've just stated.

Asserting so is at best ridiculous, and at worst, fear mongering.

There is no possible way to say McDaniels is a disappointment without at least one or two seasons under his belt...

Shazam!
03-22-2009, 08:55 PM
McDaniels is a disappointment without coaching a game. Priceless.

TXBRONC
03-22-2009, 08:59 PM
Right. Elway's stats weren't the best, and Cutler's are better.

Never mind Elway retired the #1 QB in terms of games won.

That's irrelevant.

Yeah 16 years is not 2.5 years.

Hawgdriver
03-22-2009, 09:25 PM
By saying that McDaniels is a disappointment, you completely betray everything that you've just stated.

Asserting so is at best ridiculous, and at worst, fear mongering.

There is no possible way to say McDaniels is a disappointment without at least one or two seasons under his belt...

So far he is a disappointment, right? Or am I wrong about that?

Gamechanger
03-22-2009, 09:32 PM
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/jeff%20george.jpg

who's this turd? :tsk: :tsk: :tsk: :tsk:

MOtorboat
03-22-2009, 09:32 PM
So far he is a disappointment, right? Or am I wrong about that?

You're wrong about that. :welcome:

slim
03-22-2009, 09:34 PM
You're wrong about that. :welcome:

Dead wrong.

The only disappointment has been the way Culter has reacted...IMO.

atwater27
03-22-2009, 09:57 PM
By saying that McDaniels is a disappointment, you completely betray everything that you've just stated.

Asserting so is at best ridiculous, and at worst, fear mongering.

There is no possible way to say McDaniels is a disappointment without at least one or two seasons under his belt...

Speaking of drama queens...

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 10:04 PM
Yeah 16 years is not 2.5 years.

Elway was 27-13 his first three years (10 games starting his first year), not 17-20.

Next?

atwater27
03-22-2009, 10:08 PM
Elway was 27-13 his first three years (10 games starting his first year), not 17-20.

Next?

That was a different era with faaaar less parity. But you are correct. Nice, we are so divided on this we are bringing Elway into it.

BroncoJoe
03-22-2009, 10:14 PM
Frankly, atwater, I think comparing Cutler to anything Elway is sacrilege. If I'm the first one to bring it up, I apologize.

As to your first comment, please. Yet another excuse for the losing seasons. Parity? Two years ago a team went undefeated. Last year, there was a winless team. Parity. Right.

Shazam!
03-22-2009, 10:18 PM
Hate the Elway comparsions too, but see 1994. Elway was powerless and threw his hands up many times as the defense couldn't stop anyone no matter how many times the offense marched down the field. I remember the 48-16 shellacking by the Raiders at Mile High a low point. The LBs were downright pathetic, with Alexander in particular getting smoked.

atwater27
03-22-2009, 10:35 PM
Frankly, atwater, I think comparing Cutler to anything Elway is sacrilege. If I'm the first one to bring it up, I apologize.

As to your first comment, please. Yet another excuse for the losing seasons.

Dude, the AFC was like the CFL compared to the NFC at least in the 80's and early 90's. AS much as I love and idilize Elway, the AFC was weak as hell and in the big dance that is why the Broncos got consistently raped beyond recognition, where Elway looked worse than Cutler. Let me remind you that Elway and Plummer have had some ugly, ugly ugly, disgusting plays, interceptions, interceptions for touchdowns and ugly, pointless fumbles. Elway and Plummer have easily outdone Cutler in that department. Plus, Cutler threw for more yards in a season than Elway ever did. His 25 TD passes in his 3rd season (2nd as a starter) was not accomplished by Elway until his 10th season. Unimpressed with Cutler's 86 rating? Elway only broke 80 once in his first 10 years, and that was still an 83. Think Cutler's 18 picks were bad? Elway threw 23 his 3rd year as a starter and tossed another 18 and 19 a couple of season later. Cutler's completion percentage? 62.3? Elway only beat that percentage one season in his entire career. I could go on.

Get the **** off of Cutler's ass people!!! He is progressing as a quarterback better than John Elway.. He is already breaking John Elway's records and is on pace to shatter most of them. You people are freaking insane. We lose Cutler, I bet the farm it will be considered when it is all said and done, the worst mistake an NFL franchise has ever made.

Hawgdriver
03-22-2009, 10:48 PM
You're wrong about that. :welcome:

Why are you so derisive and petulant when I make simple and honest statements? I wish you were not indifferent to my respect. McD has done poorly so far. I hope in the long run McD proves to be good at what he does. To this point, he has not.

This fall he may be a great coach. That's speculation about the future. In the realm of the present and known past we can draw conclusions with greater certainty. He has disrupted the organization with his actions. There are circus tents pitched outside Dove Valley, and that is on McD and Cutler. But as boss, McD is most responsible. A positive outcome has been in his control from the beginning and he mismanaged the situation. This is why McD is presently a disappointment.

If you can provide me some kind of indication that Cutler has unilaterally wrought this entire madness, I'll concede that McD bears no blame. As I see it, and I all can do is listen to the local and national media sources, there is blame to be shared by both parties. And in the calculus of the NFL business, where what we now witness should surprise no one, perhaps McD deserves the great preponderance of the blame--he should be a master of the business.

TXBRONC
03-22-2009, 11:40 PM
Elway was 27-13 his first three years (10 games starting his first year), not 17-20.

Next?

Whether you like it or not he also had solid defense to back up.

NEXT

TXBRONC
03-22-2009, 11:41 PM
Frankly, atwater, I think comparing Cutler to anything Elway is sacrilege. If I'm the first one to bring it up, I apologize.

As to your first comment, please. Yet another excuse for the losing seasons. Parity? Two years ago a team went undefeated. Last year, there was a winless team. Parity. Right.

You were the first one bring up bub.

Oh and before I forget, NEXT.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-22-2009, 11:46 PM
Stop acting like you are five with the "NEXT" crap. You aren't making valid points and it isn't clever or witty.

UnderArmour
03-22-2009, 11:52 PM
Stop acting like you are five with the "NEXT" crap. You aren't making valid points and it isn't clever or witty.

Next. :coffee:

bullis26
03-22-2009, 11:55 PM
Stop acting like you are five with the "NEXT" crap. You aren't making valid points and it isn't clever or witty.

agreed

ChampWJ
03-23-2009, 12:32 AM
There is no possible way to say McDaniels is a disappointment without at least one or two seasons under his belt...

Sure there is. McDaniels is a disappointment (so far). There I said it, and I'm not the first one to say so. Lets see, he is coming into a desirable situation where one side of the ball is pretty well set, then he proceeds to all but run off the young, up and coming franchise quarterback, the one who makes the whole thing go. How that can be spun into any positive light is well beyond me.

Look, this situation still needs to play out, but I think it's fair to say at this point that McDaniels could've done slightly better in his first few months.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 01:04 AM
Dude, the AFC was like the CFL compared to the NFC at least in the 80's and early 90's. AS much as I love and idilize Elway, the AFC was weak as hell and in the big dance that is why the Broncos got consistently raped beyond recognition, where Elway looked worse than Cutler. Let me remind you that Elway and Plummer have had some ugly, ugly ugly, disgusting plays, interceptions, interceptions for touchdowns and ugly, pointless fumbles. Elway and Plummer have easily outdone Cutler in that department. Plus, Cutler threw for more yards in a season than Elway ever did. His 25 TD passes in his 3rd season (2nd as a starter) was not accomplished by Elway until his 10th season. Unimpressed with Cutler's 86 rating? Elway only broke 80 once in his first 10 years, and that was still an 83. Think Cutler's 18 picks were bad? Elway threw 23 his 3rd year as a starter and tossed another 18 and 19 a couple of season later. Cutler's completion percentage? 62.3? Elway only beat that percentage one season in his entire career. I could go on.

Get the **** off of Cutler's ass people!!! He is progressing as a quarterback better than John Elway.. He is already breaking John Elway's records and is on pace to shatter most of them. You people are freaking insane. We lose Cutler, I bet the farm it will be considered when it is all said and done, the worst mistake an NFL franchise has ever made.

I don't care. They (Elway and yes, Plummer) won games. Jay has yet to have a winning record. Anywhere.

He is good at one thing though. Excuses.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 01:07 AM
Whether you like it or not he also had solid defense to back up.

NEXT

Give me your NEXT excuse. Comparing Cutler to Elway is asinine.


You were the first one bring up bub.

Oh and before I forget, NEXT.

It's been brought up all over this board long before today. And no, I wasn't the first one to bring it up.

Lonestar
03-23-2009, 01:13 AM
I don't care. They (Elway and yes, Plummer) won games. Jay has yet to have a winning record. Anywhere.

He is good at things though. whining, crying, Excuses.


edited for accuracy..

atwater27
03-23-2009, 06:17 AM
I don't care. They (Elway and yes, Plummer) won games. Jay has yet to have a winning record. Anywhere.

He is good at one thing though. Excuses.

You didn't even read the post.

NameUsedBefore
03-23-2009, 08:44 AM
Next. :coffee:

:coffee: Previous.









:D

weazel
03-23-2009, 09:58 AM
flush...

Poet
03-23-2009, 01:31 PM
Bring back Marty Shotgun.

Gamechanger
03-23-2009, 01:34 PM
well McDaniels reportedly Cutler is "our quarterback" can ya'll just end it now?

Poet
03-23-2009, 01:41 PM
well McDaniels reportedly Cutler is "our quarterback" can ya'll just end it now?

GC, these people still go crazy over Cutler versus Plummer, this won't "end" for at least ten years.

TXBRONC
03-23-2009, 01:42 PM
well McDaniels reportedly Cutler is "our quarterback" can ya'll just end it now?

That depends Game, do you have any suggestions on how to get rid Bus Cook? Just about anything short of felony is fine with me.

Poet
03-23-2009, 01:42 PM
That depends Game, do you have any suggestions on how to get rid Bus Cook? Just about anything short of felony is fine with me.

At least his agent isn't Drew Rosenhaus.

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 01:43 PM
That depends Game, do you have any suggestions on how to get rid Bus Cook? Just about anything short of felony is fine with me.

If you guys want to take up a collection, I can still get access to my M40-A1

MOtorboat
03-23-2009, 01:44 PM
At least his agent isn't Drew Rosenhaus.

I'm starting to think Cook is worse.

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm starting to think Cook is worse.

Yeah, at least Rosenhaus doesnt hide the fact he wants more money and will start a bidding war to get it. Cook likes to add fuel to a spark and create huge firestorms.

Poet
03-23-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm starting to think Cook is worse.

I think he is a worse agent. Drew Rosenhaus is one of maybe two or three agents that come as close as an agent really can to being a household name.

I hope this get resolves in a decent manner because the Broncos are my second team but damn.

TXBRONC
03-23-2009, 01:50 PM
At least his agent isn't Drew Rosenhaus.

I think many respects Bus Cook is proving to be worse.

Rosenhaus as much as I don't care for his tactics seems to be more straight forward. Cook seems be more underhanded, he wants come off publicly as "good ol boy" all the while he appears to "the source" close to the situation.

TXBRONC
03-23-2009, 01:51 PM
If you guys want to take up a collection, I can still get access to my M40-A1

Why waste good ammunition?

EMB6903
03-23-2009, 01:51 PM
Elway was 27-13 his first three years (10 games starting his first year), not 17-20.

Next?



I don't care. They (Elway and yes, Plummer) won games. Jay has yet to have a winning record. Anywhere.

He is good at one thing though. Excuses.


Here are the Broncos scoring defense rankings for Elway, Cutler, and Plummers first 3 years in Denver.
1983= 9th in points allowed 4-6
1984= 2nd in points allowed 12-2
1985= 13th in points allowed 11-5

2003= 9th in points allowed 9-2
2004= 9th in points allowed 10-6
2005= 3rd in points allowed 13-3

2006= 8th in points allowed 2-3
2007= 28th in points allowed 7-9
2008= 30th in points allowed 8-8


You guys realize it takes a TEAM EFFORT to win games right?

Poet
03-23-2009, 01:53 PM
I think many respects Bus Cook is proving to be worse.

Rosenhaus as much as I don't care for his tactics seems to be more straight forward. Cook seems be more underhanded, he wants come off publicly as "good ol boy" all the while he appears to "the source" close to the situation.

Rosenhaus usually does what his clients want. When Chad Johnson wanted to be traded Rosenhaus kept saying "I'm doing what my client wants, but I prefer to do it quietly,".

As far as being an agent and getting things done, Rosenhaus is a beast. He has so many clients that it isn't even funny.

I am not as familar with Cook as I am with Rosenhaus, but Cook does appear to be a snake in the grass.

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 02:03 PM
I'm curious. Why is it the Saints can have a horrible defense and the weak armed, too short Drew Brees can still light up the field? The guys has miniscule tools in comparison to Cutler, but he seems to not only avoid the excuses, but he excels.

Where does this standard lie?

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:05 PM
I'm curious. Why is it the Saints can have a horrible defense and the weak armed, too short Drew Brees can still light up the field? The guys has miniscule tools in comparison to Cutler, but he seems to not only avoid the excuses, but he excels.

Where does this standard lie?

Drew Brees is one of the top 3 Quarterbacks in the league.

Jay Cutler is one of the top 10 or 12 Quarterbacks in the league.

there is no comparison. That's like asking why Peyton Manning is able to win so many games with a mediocre running game or defense.

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:08 PM
EMB, I appreciate what you're saying, and it is a team effort to win games.

But if Cutler remains a Broncos and you guys start crushing souls, I am going to remind you and many others when Cutler starts getting more credit than he deserves for those wins.

Cutler is not the problem on the team. He is one of the biggest bright spots, and he is a great talent. Right now he is a very very good player, and odds are that he will become great.

However, McDaniels is not a dissapointment. We know that Cutler's name was involved for a trade. So what? Everyone knows that no player is untradable, Peyton Manning is tradable. In his prime Tomlinson was tradable. In some cases, the value of a player is so high that many teams would be better off going another route, but no player is untouchable.

McDaniels cannot fail as a head coach until he coaches. That's it, that's the truth. If the man takes you to the playoffs next year with or without Cutler then a lot of people are going to be eating crow. A LOT of crow.

If he has a scheme, and Cutler does not fit it, he should pursue it. If not, then you adjust the scheme and you adjust the player.

This whole thing is STILL salvagable because I doubt Cutler will sit out an entire season. It would murder his value as a player.

Winning cures everything. If Cutler stays a Bronco, and you guys win, the "event" will be over.

Cutler and McDaniels are both in the wrong, and McDaniels appeared to be in the wrong more than Cutler. Then Cutler demanded a trade.

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:09 PM
Drew Brees is one of the top 3 Quarterbacks in the league.

Jay Cutler is one of the top 10 or 12 Quarterbacks in the league.

there is no comparison. That's like asking why Peyton Manning is able to win so many games with a mediocre running game or defense.

So your answer is "because Drew Brees is much better and is head and shoulders over Cutler?"

Your answer proves Chaz's point.

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:09 PM
EMB, I appreciate what you're saying, and it is a team effort to win games.

But if Cutler remains a Broncos and you guys start crushing souls, I am going to remind you and many others when Cutler starts getting more credit than he deserves for those wins.

Cutler is not the problem on the team. He is one of the biggest bright spots, and he is a great talent. Right now he is a very very good player, and odds are that he will become great.

However, McDaniels is not a dissapointment. We know that Cutler's name was involved for a trade. So what? Everyone knows that no player is untradable, Peyton Manning is tradable. In his prime Tomlinson was tradable. In some cases, the value of a player is so high that many teams would be better off going another route, but no player is untouchable.

McDaniels cannot fail as a head coach until he coaches. That's it, that's the truth. If the man takes you to the playoffs next year with or without Cutler then a lot of people are going to be eating crow. A LOT of crow.

If he has a scheme, and Cutler does not fit it, he should pursue it. If not, then you adjust the scheme and you adjust the player.

This whole thing is STILL salvagable because I doubt Cutler will sit out an entire season. It would murder his value as a player.

Winning cures everything. If Cutler stays a Bronco, and you guys win, the "event" will be over.

Cutler and McDaniels are both in the wrong, and McDaniels appeared to be in the wrong more than Cutler. Then Cutler demanded a trade.

Cutler is the best player on our team. Period.

Click the link in my sig and be amazed :salute:

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:11 PM
So your answer is "because Drew Brees is much better and is head and shoulders over Cutler?"

Your answer proves Chaz's point.

He's comparing a 9th year pro to Jay Cutler.

Who is to say that Jay Cutler can not attain or surpass Brees' level of playing ability in 1 or 2 years?

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:12 PM
Cutler is the best player on our team. Period.

Click the link in my sig and be amazed :salute:

That seems reasonable but I disagree.

I've clicked on your link, and the reason why I agree with the "considerable" amount to land Culter is because of what it looks like he will do, not because of what he has done.

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 02:12 PM
Drew Brees is one of the top 3 Quarterbacks in the league.

Jay Cutler is one of the top 10 or 12 Quarterbacks in the league.

there is no comparison. That's like asking why Peyton Manning is able to win so many games with a mediocre running game or defense.

Hold on...I keep hearing that Cutler is top 10, then some even say top 5 and that his bad times come because of his defense. Then when I make a solid comparison with Brees and his defensive situation...suddenly Cutler drops to a top 12 QB and his running game is to blame.

Can I get a consistent answer somewhere, please?

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:14 PM
That seems reasonable but I disagree.

I've clicked on your link, and the reason why I agree with the "considerable" amount to land Culter is because of what it looks like he will do, not because of what he has done.

Jay Cutler has had 2 solid back-to-back seasons. How has he not proved it? If you give Cutler a solid defense (it doesnt even have to be top 15) and a runningback that can stay healthy......we would've been in the playoffs the past 2 years. I guarantee it.

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:15 PM
He's comparing a 9th year pro to Jay Cutler.

Who is to say that Jay Cutler can not attain or surpass Brees' level of playing ability in 1 or 2 years?

He's comparing a great QB to a QB that many feel (wrongly mind you) is great right now.

People are screaming that he is a franchise player - Brees is a franchise player, they both play the same position.

Come on now.

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 02:15 PM
He's comparing a 9th year pro to Jay Cutler.

Who is to say that Jay Cutler can not attain or surpass Brees' level of playing ability in 1 or 2 years?

Flip it...who says he will? Brees is proven and yet was dumped by SD and was always relegated to fail because of his physical limitations.

No complaining, no trade demands...he just goes out and does his job with a poor o-line, inconsistent running game, bad defense and mediocre receivers.

I guess the extra few years must make all the defference in the world. And if that's the case, the only argument for Jay's deficiencies is that he lacks the experience.

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:15 PM
Hold on...I keep hearing that Cutler is top 10, then some even say top 5 and that his bad times come because of his defense. Then when I make a solid comparison with Brees and his defensive situation...suddenly Cutler drops to a top 12 QB and his running game is to blame.

Can I get a consistent answer somewhere, please?

I have always given a consistant answer.

Cutler is not Drew Brees, or Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady.

But Cutler WILL take over as one of the top 3 QB's here in a couple of years. I guarantee it. Our defense will improve under Nolan and we will go to the playoffs.

The defense is the main reason why we havent been in the playoffs the past 2 years...

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:17 PM
Jay Cutler has had 2 solid back-to-back seasons. How has he not proved it? If you give Cutler a solid defense (it doesnt even have to be top 15) and a runningback that can stay healthy......we would've been in the playoffs the past 2 years. I guarantee it.

He had one solid year, one good year. Sorry, that doesn't really prove anything.

The Broncos don't need/didn't need a running back that can stay healthy, they had the Denver system will produced adequately.

Guaranteeing something that's in the past that you can't prove seems a stretch to me.

Someone make a list of the GREAT things Cutler has done.

Note that excuses are not great things.

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 02:17 PM
Jay Cutler has had 2 solid back-to-back seasons. How has he not proved it? If you give Cutler a solid defense (it doesnt even have to be top 15) and a runningback that can stay healthy......we would've been in the playoffs the past 2 years. I guarantee it.

Trent Dilfer.

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:17 PM
He's comparing a great QB to a QB that many feel (wrongly mind you) is great right now.

People are screaming that he is a franchise player - Brees is a franchise player, they both play the same position.

Come on now.

Jay Cutler is our franchise reason for the simple reason that he is the best player on our entire team...

Being a franchise player doesnt necessarily mean that he's the absolute best at his position in the entire NFL.

Come on now.

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:18 PM
He had one solid year, one good year. Sorry, that doesn't really prove anything.

The Broncos don't need/didn't need a running back that can stay healthy, they had the Denver system will produced adequately.

Guaranteeing something that's in the past that you can't prove seems a stretch to me.

Someone make a list of the GREAT things Cutler has done.

Note that excuses are not great things.

I already have directed you to see Cutler's greatness.

Click the damn link in my sig and enjoy :salute:

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 02:20 PM
I have always given a consistant answer.

Cutler is not Drew Brees, or Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady.

But Cutler WILL take over as one of the top 3 QB's here in a couple of years. I guarantee it. Our defense will improve under Nolan and we will go to the playoffs.

The defense is the main reason why we havent been in the playoffs the past 2 years...

Sorry, but Brees is the antidote to your theory. He has less physical skills and less ammunition in his offense to work with...yet he continually produces. So if the Saints and Broncos have the same defensive problems, but Jay has more talent in himself and his offense, then why can't he out perform Brees? because of experience? Try again.

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:20 PM
I already have directed you to see Cutler's greatness.

Click the damn link in my sig and enjoy :salute:

I have.

You are saying "he isn't Manning, Brady, or Brees, but he will become top five."

It sounds like you are banking on the elites getting old and sucking.

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 02:21 PM
Jay Cutler is our franchise reason for the simple reason that he is the best player on our entire team...

Being a franchise player doesnt necessarily mean that he's the absolute best at his position in the entire NFL.

Come on now.

Then why is it such an issue to entertain a trade for him? Maybe the trade brings us something better.

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:22 PM
Sorry, but Brees is the antidote to your theory. He has less physical skills and less ammunition in his offense to work with...yet he continually produces. So if the Saints and Broncos have the same defensive problems, but Jay has more talent in himself and his offense, then why can't he out perform Brees? because of experience? Try again.

Experience is one of the most important attributes for any quarterback. Why do you think the critics always think that rookie 1st round Quarterbacks are destined to fail when they start from the beginning????

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:24 PM
Then why is it such an issue to entertain a trade for him? Maybe the trade brings us something better.

What could we get that's better than Cutler? Brees? no...Manning? no....Brady? no..... Roethlisberger? no....

Cassel better than Cutler? Get real...

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:24 PM
Jay Cutler is our franchise reason for the simple reason that he is the best player on our entire team...

Being a franchise player doesnt necessarily mean that he's the absolute best at his position in the entire NFL.

Come on now.

So when Willie Anderson was the best player on the Bengals, he was the franchise?

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:25 PM
Experience is one of the most important attributes for any quarterback. Why do you think the critics always think that rookie 1st round Quarterbacks are destined to fail when they start from the beginning????

Because they get paid to analyze a draft and they better analyze something if they want to keep their job.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 02:27 PM
Jay Cutler has had 2 solid back-to-back seasons. How has he not proved it? If you give Cutler a solid defense (it doesnt even have to be top 15) and a runningback that can stay healthy......we would've been in the playoffs the past 2 years. I guarantee it.

Whoa! We have a physic in the house!!!

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:27 PM
So when Willie Anderson was the best player on the Bengals, he was the franchise?

I dont see a written law that says an offensive lineman can't be a franchise player :coffee:

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:28 PM
I dont see a written law that says an offensive lineman can't be a franchise player :coffee:

How many winning teams have an offensive line as their best player?

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 02:28 PM
Whoa! We have a physic in the house!!!

get your own line.

BTW, it's spelled psychic :rolleyes:

FAIL :coffee:

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 02:29 PM
What could we get that's better than Cutler? Brees? no...Manning? no....Brady? no..... Roethlisberger? no....

Cassel better than Cutler? Get real...

Are you sure? Have you seen Cutler run a spread offense with any success?

Of course if he fails, we can ALWAYS blame it on the defense and running game, so I guess we'll never truly know.

claymore
03-23-2009, 02:30 PM
Sorry, but Brees is the antidote to your theory. He has less physical skills and less ammunition in his offense to work with...yet he continually produces. So if the Saints and Broncos have the same defensive problems, but Jay has more talent in himself and his offense, then why can't he out perform Brees? because of experience? Try again.Maybe Jay makes the offense look better than it is? Brees was also surrounded by major talent in Sandiego. He sucked his first 2 years.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 02:31 PM
get your own line.

BTW, it's spelled psychic :rolleyes:

FAIL :coffee:

Your love for Cutler above the Broncos?

FAIL. :coffee:

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 02:31 PM
Are you sure? Have you seen Cutler run a spread offense with any success?

Of course if he fails, we can ALWAYS blame it on the defense and running game, so I guess we'll never truly know.

Don't forget the coach!

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:35 PM
I want the Broncos to keep Cutler because I like watching good QB's play behind great offensive lines.

I think most people can agree that Cutler is only going to get better. He is very good, I would bet that he becomes a great QB. I think he could become a top three QB, and eventually be a legitimate contender for the best QB in the league.

But, I have issues with people saying that he is that guy, or that he will for sure become that guy. I have issues with people getting butthurt over the fact that he is tradable (just like everyone else).

I can get behind disliking McDaniels because honestly when I "read between the lines" he seems shady to me. I think that he is insane for seriously looking at Cassel as his guy for a variety of reasons. But the simple fact that he looked at a trade does not mean he blows.

Jay Cutler will be a Bronco IMO, McDaniels will be a solid head coach IMO, and you will be a perennial playoff team one way or another soom IMO.

But my god, you can't call a player a franchise player and then complain when someone compares your franchise guy to other franchise guys.

It's that simple.

ChampWJ
03-23-2009, 02:35 PM
Your love for Cutler above the Broncos?

FAIL. :coffee:

This is where it gets ridiculous. How is he choosing Cutler over the Broncos? :confused: It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the Broncos will not be better off without Cutler in the short term, and very likely, the long term. Just because many fans want Cutler to stay doesn't mean they are choosing a player over the team. We don't all have to agree with every decision the front office makes, or explores. :grouphug:

I want my team to win, but I don't see that happening much right now without our best player, so sure I think it's absurd to trade him. That does not mean I'm choosing the Cutler above the team.

Poet
03-23-2009, 02:37 PM
Maybe Jay makes the offense look better than it is? Brees was also surrounded by major talent in Sandiego. He sucked his first 2 years.

How is that possible? If anything his offensive line makes him look better than what he is. He is a risk taking gun slinger, his line only gives him more time to scan the field.

Marshall is a very good player, your running game is solid with anyone back there, Eddie Royal played far better than anyone could expect, and your tight ends are very good.

That is not a legit argument.

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 02:59 PM
Maybe Jay makes the offense look better than it is? Brees was also surrounded by major talent in Sandiego. He sucked his first 2 years.

Ok...so now the line and WR's suck and Jay makes them look better. I get it.

Poet
03-23-2009, 03:00 PM
Ok...so now the line and WR's suck and Jay makes them look better. I get it.

Did you know that Jay Cutler taught Clady how to block?

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 03:04 PM
This is where it gets ridiculous. How is he choosing Cutler over the Broncos? :confused: It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the Broncos will not be better off without Cutler in the short term, and very likely, the long term. Just because many fans want Cutler to stay doesn't mean they are choosing a player over the team. We don't all have to agree with every decision the front office makes, or explores. :grouphug:

I want my team to win, but I don't see that happening much right now without our best player, so sure I think it's absurd to trade him. That does not mean I'm choosing the Cutler above the team.

You don't know that. No one does.

CoachChaz
03-23-2009, 03:07 PM
This is where it gets ridiculous. How is he choosing Cutler over the Broncos? :confused: It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the Broncos will not be better off without Cutler in the short term, and very likely, the long term. Just because many fans want Cutler to stay doesn't mean they are choosing a player over the team. We don't all have to agree with every decision the front office makes, or explores. :grouphug:

I want my team to win, but I don't see that happening much right now without our best player, so sure I think it's absurd to trade him. That does not mean I'm choosing the Cutler above the team.

Dude...WE ALL want Cutler to stay. No one ever said to get rid of him unless it started to destroy the team.

And when Cutler plays a season in McD's offense and blows everyone away...then I'll buy this mess...

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the Broncos will not be better off without Cutler in the short term, and very likely, the long term"

ChampWJ
03-23-2009, 03:10 PM
You don't know that. No one does.

That's why it's been reported that coaches around the league think Denver is crazy for even thinking about trading Cutler.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 03:11 PM
That's why it's been reported that coaches around the league think Denver is crazy for even thinking about trading Cutler.

I've read that opinion, as well as the opposite.

ChampWJ
03-23-2009, 03:14 PM
I've read that opinion, as well as the opposite.

Good for you. Tell me how Cutler playing elsewhere is beneficial both short term and long term.

claymore
03-23-2009, 03:15 PM
Ok...so now the line and WR's suck and Jay makes them look better. I get it.

I think he made our line look better than it is. By games ive watched and listening to opposing players talk about him, and how he extends plays.

Royal didnt throw the ball to himself, and neither did Marshall.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 03:17 PM
Good for you. Tell me how Cutler playing elsewhere is beneficial both short term and long term.

The point is, we just don't know.

Tell me how many winning seasons he's had since high school?

I can play that game too.

DallasChief
03-23-2009, 03:19 PM
The point is, we just don't know.

Tell me how many winning seasons he's had since high school?

I can play that game too.

Zero.
.
I'd like Whoopi Goldberg for the block.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 03:20 PM
Seven.

I'd like Whoopi Goldberg for the block.

Seven for you, maybe!

:D

DallasChief
03-23-2009, 03:23 PM
Seven for you, maybe!

:D

I changed it. I thought you were asking how many losing seasons since high school. :D

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 03:25 PM
I changed it. I thought you were asking how many losing seasons since high school. :D

My response doesn't make sense - I was trying to say his losing seasons were like winning seasons for you...

:beer:

DallasChief
03-23-2009, 03:30 PM
My response doesn't make sense - I was trying to say his losing seasons were like winning seasons for you...

:beer:

I need a beer.

BroncoJoe
03-23-2009, 03:35 PM
I need a beer.

I'm gonna open one up in 60 minutes.

fcspikeit
03-23-2009, 03:49 PM
We were 16th in scoring. Yards mean nothing without points.

Joe, was that 16th in total points scored or 16th in scoring % with possessions?

I don't think we had as many offensive possessions as the rest of the league.. I would like to know what our scoring % was as compared to the amount off opportunities the offense had with the ball..


*Edit* I did some checking, We were 16th in total points scored.. We were ranked 25th in time of possession.. 13 of the 15 teams who scored more then us had more time of possession.. Owe and we were 3rd at 3rd down conversion % so our offense can't be blamed for the low time of Possession..5 of the teams who scored more then us ran up to 39 more offensive plays..


There is .6 of a point separating the 12th-16th ranked scoring Offense or 9 total points. Also, there were defensive and special teams scores included into the total points scored.. I know we were at the very bottom of defensive and special team scoring so where would we be if only the offensive scores were added up?

In conclusion, while it is clear our offense could have done a better job converting yards into points. It is no where near as simply as saying our offense was 16th at scoring and expecting that logically suggests our offense was overrated..

nthngd2say
03-23-2009, 04:16 PM
Joe, was that 16th in total points scored or 16th in scoring % with possessions?

I don't think we had as many offensive possessions as the rest of the league.. I would like to know what our scoring % was as compared to the amount off opportunities the offense had with the ball..

Broncos for 2008 were 10th in the NFL in red zone possessions with 55, 11th in red zone TDs with 30 and 16th in the NFL in total pts scored with 370 and 15th in the NFL in scoring % and 16th in the NFL in TD %.

NYG [69], NE [65], AZ [65], SD [65], PHI [63], NO [62], HOU [61], TB [56], ATL [56] had more opportunities.

NO [38], AZ [38], SD [37], NYG [35], IND [34], NYJ [33], NE [33], CAR [32], ATL [31] and PHI [31] scored more TDs.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Statistics/Inside+the+Red+Zone/2008/finalredzn.htm

fcspikeit
03-23-2009, 05:06 PM
Broncos for 2008 were 10th in the NFL in red zone possessions with 55, 11th in red zone TDs with 30 and 16th in the NFL in total pts scored with 370 and 15th in the NFL in scoring % and 16th in the NFL in TD %.

NYG [69], NE [65], AZ [65], SD [65], PHI [63], NO [62], HOU [61], TB [56], ATL [56] had more opportunities.

NO [38], AZ [38], SD [37], NYG [35], IND [34], NYJ [33], NE [33], CAR [32], ATL [31] and PHI [31] scored more TDs.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Statistics/Inside+the+Red+Zone/2008/finalredzn.htm

So 7 of the 10 teams who scored more then us in the red zone also had more possessions in the red zone, correct?

It stands to reason the teams with more total red zone opportunities will score more total points in the red zone. Therefore just saying who scored more total points doesn't really mean anything. The only logical way to compare them on a level playing field would be to compare the red zone scoring % as well as the red zone TD %...

TXBRONC
03-23-2009, 05:14 PM
Joe, was that 16th in total points scored or 16th in scoring % with possessions?

I don't think we had as many offensive possessions as the rest of the league.. I would like to know what our scoring % was as compared to the amount off opportunities the offense had with the ball..


*Edit* I did some checking, We were 16th in total points scored.. We were ranked 25th in time of possession.. 13 of the 15 teams who scored more then us had more time of possession.. Owe and we were 3rd at 3rd down conversion % so our offense can't be blamed for the low time of Possession..5 of the teams who scored more then us ran up to 39 more offensive plays..


There is .6 of a point separating the 12th-16th ranked scoring Offense or 9 total points. Also, there were defensive and special teams scores included into the total points scored.. I know we were at the very bottom of defensive and special team scoring so where would we be if only the offensive scores were added up?

In conclusion, while it is clear our offense could have done a better job converting yards into points. It is no where near as simply as saying our offense was 16th at scoring and expecting that logically suggests our offense was overrated..

Some people try desperately to look at the offense's production in a vacuum, like there is nothing else that impacts their production. When at the bottom of the League in average starting field position common sense says you should at least think it just might have something to do with special teams and defense.

nthngd2say
03-23-2009, 05:23 PM
So 7 of the 10 teams who scored more then us in the red zone also had more possessions in the red zone, correct?

It stands to reason the teams with more total red zone opportunities will score more total points in the red zone. Therefore just saying who scored more total points doesn't really mean anything. The only logical way to compare them on a level playing field would be to compare the red zone scoring % as well as the red zone TD %...

Time of possession was a coaching decision as we were 28th in the NFL in rushing attempts yet 12th in total yards and 14th in scoring. Could have been lack of confidence in the running game for sure but still a coaching decision. Denver was also tied for 8th in total offensive plays ran.
More opportunities usually does equals more total points [not always] but that's not the whole picture - IMO how efficient the offense is at scoring [particularly TDs] when they get opportunities is most important. Indy converted 34 of their 50 opportunities in the red zone to TDs and 45/50 times overall they got points. My opinion is that has mostly to do with execution and play calling. Our kicker was also terribly inconsistent which affects those numbers somewhat. That said, we had a young offense overall. Cutler, Marshall, Royal, Sheffler, Hillis/Young - Graham, Stokley and Pittman were the only vets. So mistakes and poor execution at times are somewhat expected. There is room for improvement and being #2 in total yards doesn't define the offense alone.
The defense was also 30th in total points allowed, 29th in total yards allowed, 29th in 1st downs allowed, 31st in INT, 27th in rushing yds allowed, 30th in rushing TD allowed, 29th 1st downs/game, tied 28th % 3rd down made/allowed, 26th in sacks and 32nd in take aways.
Broncos were 32nd in total # of punt returns [20] and 13th in ave yds per return [9.8]. They were 12th in total # of kick returns [71] but 23rd overall in ave yds per return [21.8].
Prater was 5th in touch backs [19] but our special teams were 28th in average return yds allowed [24.7]. The Broncos were one of 11 teams total to allow a return touchdown. Prater was 25/34 for field goals or a 73.5% which was good for 30th in the NFL. Prater and 5 other kickers missed a PAT [Lions, Faders, Bucs, Saints, and Steelers].

fcspikeit
03-23-2009, 05:49 PM
Time of possession was a coaching decision as we were 28th in the NFL in rushing attempts yet 12th in total yards and 14th in scoring. Could have been lack of confidence in the running game for sure but still a coaching decision. Denver was also tied for 8th in total offensive plays ran.
More opportunities usually does equals more total points [not always] but that's not the whole picture - IMO how efficient the offense is at scoring [particularly TDs] when they get opportunities is most important. Indy converted 34 of their 50 opportunities in the red zone to TDs and 45/50 times overall they got points. My opinion is that has mostly to do with execution and play calling. Our kicker was also terribly inconsistent which affects those numbers somewhat. That said, we had a young offense overall. Cutler, Marshall, Royal, Sheffler, Hillis/Young - Graham, Stokley and Pittman were the only vets. So mistakes and poor execution at times are somewhat expected. There is room for improvement and being #2 in total yards doesn't define the offense alone.
The defense was also 30th in total points allowed, 29th in total yards allowed, 29th in 1st downs allowed, 31st in INT, 27th in rushing yds allowed, 30th in rushing TD allowed, and 32nd in take aways.

I agree, one must figure everything into the painting if you want to see the whole picture..

I'm also sure the Colts at 34 -50 TD's in the red zone was a lot higher then us, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if that lead the league.. Still it was implied the broncos offense didn't fair to well scoring points. I wonder where they are at in red zone TD scoring %? I would bet they were closer to the top then bottom, even with the heavily pointed out int's Jay threw in the red zone.

atwater27
03-23-2009, 06:02 PM
I'm curious. Why is it the Saints can have a horrible defense and the weak armed, too short Drew Brees can still light up the field? The guys has miniscule tools in comparison to Cutler, but he seems to not only avoid the excuses, but he excels.

Where does this standard lie?

What years are they in respectively? Cutler light up the field too. And Brees is a playoff winner:rolleyes:, so, good comparison.

Poet
03-23-2009, 06:18 PM
What years are they in respectively? Cutler light up the field too. And Brees is a playoff winner:rolleyes:, so, good comparison.

When people talk about Cutler like he is this great QB NOW, the experience thing goes out the window.

bullis26
03-23-2009, 06:23 PM
Brady Quinn! Brady Quinn!! Brady Quinn!!!!!!!

Poet
03-23-2009, 06:28 PM
Brady Quinn! Brady Quinn!! Brady Quinn!!!!!!!

I wouldn't wish that on your team.

EMB6903
03-23-2009, 06:39 PM
I think Cutler is staying in Denver but if the front office is stupid enough to trade him I wouldnt be as upset if we recieved Quinn and picks in return. a young and tough QB who can make all the throws that has some knowledge of the system Mcdaniels runs.

bullis26
03-23-2009, 06:41 PM
I think Cutler is staying in Denver but if the front office is stupid enough to trade him I wouldnt be as upset if we recieved Quinn and picks in return. a young and tough QB who can make all the throws that has some knowledge of the system Mcdaniels runs.

shaun rodgers instead of picks, he wants out we need a NT

Poet
03-23-2009, 06:42 PM
shaun rodgers instead of picks, he wants out we need a NT

He's been a malcontent everywhere he has ever been. He tried to get out of his contract after one year in Cleveland. Dude is a huge pain in the ass.

EMB6903
03-23-2009, 06:42 PM
shaun rodgers instead of picks, he wants out we need a NT

He makes that defense go... I'd be surprised if Mangini let him walk regardless if he wants out.... but I would LOVE Rogers in Denver.

bullis26
03-23-2009, 06:43 PM
He's been a malcontent everywhere he has ever been. He tried to get out of his contract after one year in Cleveland. Dude is a huge pain in the ass.

but the dude is also a huge pain in the OL's ass

Poet
03-23-2009, 06:43 PM
but the dude is also a huge pain in the OL's ass

True. He was probably the best NT in football until Haynesworth went ape shit.

EMB6903
03-23-2009, 06:44 PM
He's been a malcontent everywhere he has ever been. He tried to get out of his contract after one year in Cleveland. Dude is a huge pain in the ass.


He did survive in the trashiest city and worst team in the league for what 5 years?

why does he want out of Cleveland anyways?

EMB6903
03-23-2009, 06:46 PM
True. He was probably the best NT in football until Haynesworth went ape shit.

Haynesworth never really played NT

I agree with you though Rogers and Hampton are the best NT's Wilfork and Jamal Williams could also make a case.

bullis26
03-23-2009, 06:46 PM
True. He was probably the best NT in football until Haynesworth went ape shit.

haynesworth didnt play NT..... and i'd give best NT to him, but id give him one of the best NT

bullis26
03-23-2009, 06:48 PM
Haynesworth never really played NT

I agree with you though Rogers and Hampton are the best NT's Wilfork and Jamal Williams could also make a case.

was thinking hampton and wilfork, but i guess williams could too but kris jenkins isnt bad Haoliti Nata isnt either (cant spell his name, ravens NT)

bullis26
03-23-2009, 06:49 PM
He did survive in the trashiest city and worst team in the league for what 5 years?

why does he want out of Cleveland anyways?

mangenious didnt say hi to him in the weight room, or at a team meeting...... first time team contacted him it was about his weight, so he feels betrayed

fcspikeit
03-23-2009, 07:31 PM
but the dude is also a huge pain in the OL's ass

So your willing to take on a pain in the ass like Rogers because he is good, yet you want to Ship Cutler out for being a pain in the ass regardless of his play? :laugh:

getlynched47
03-23-2009, 09:16 PM
Your love for Cutler above the Broncos?

FAIL. :coffee:

LOL!! :lol: How many times can you fail in one day?

I never said that I choose Cutler over the Broncos :coffee:

has it ever occured to you that without Cutler the last 3 years, we would probably have the top 5 pick in the draft the last 2 years? Because of Cutler, we escaped total mediocrity. He carried this team to 7 wins in 07 and 8 wins in 08. Without him, we have to start all over and find our future guy...somebody we have RIGHT NOW.

try again Mr.FAIL...

MOtorboat
03-23-2009, 09:17 PM
LOL!! :lol: How many times can you fail in one day?

I never said that I choose Cutler over the Broncos :coffee:

has it ever occured to you that without Cutler the last 3 years, we would probably have the top 5 pick in the draft the last 2 years? Because of Cutler, we escaped total mediocrity. He carried this team to 7 wins in 07 and 8 wins in 08. Without him, we have to start all over and find our future guy...somebody we have RIGHT NOW.

try again Mr.FAIL...

Or...with Plummer, we could have been in the playoffs the last three years...:rolleyes:

slim
03-23-2009, 09:19 PM
Or...with Plummer, we could have been in the playoffs the last three years...:rolleyes:

I guess you don't realize that Cutler IS the franchise.

MOtorboat
03-23-2009, 09:20 PM
I guess you don't realize that Cutler IS the franchise.

Yes, I do understand that, but the defense cost us the last two seasons...

slim
03-23-2009, 09:21 PM
Yes, I do understand that, but the defense cost us the last two seasons...

:tsk:

It was sarcasm, midget.

MOtorboat
03-23-2009, 09:21 PM
:tsk:

It was sarcasm, midget.

So was mine. Fatass.

aberdien
12-15-2019, 10:06 PM
This was a fun thread.

BroncoWave
12-15-2019, 10:10 PM
Man how did I miss this thread?

Nomad
12-15-2019, 10:25 PM
I see many names in this thread that hated me because I thought Cutler sucked. :lol: Some stopped being fans of the Broncos because Cutler was shipped off. :lol:

MOtorboat
12-15-2019, 10:26 PM
Trading Cutler was brilliant. Drafting Tebow to replace him was, well, bad. Really bad.

But, then again, for a franchise set back a decade it sure recovered six years later just fine.

BroncoWave
12-15-2019, 10:28 PM
I miss NUB.

Poet
12-15-2019, 10:38 PM
I see many names in this thread that hated me because I thought Cutler sucked. :lol: Some stopped being fans of the Broncos because Cutler was shipped off. :lol:

You know, considering that fact, and how many posters don't post that much because we suck...it's time you all started paying more respect to me as a Broncos fan.

Cugel
12-15-2019, 10:41 PM
Trading Cutler was brilliant. Drafting Tebow to replace him was, well, bad. Really bad.

But, then again, for a franchise set back a decade it sure recovered six years later just fine.

Trading Cutler was the stupidest thing McMoron did in the midst of some colossal blunders. :coffee:

First, he tried to trade him for Matt Cassel in a three way trade, which was insane. Then the Cassel trade to KC blew up that brilliant idea. So, he had burned his bridges with Cutler needlessly, and THEN had no QB.

OOPS! He should have kept Cutler for that season, and then drafted a QB in the first or second round to develop behind him.

That would have taken all the pressure off McDaniels. He would have had a veteran QB he could rely on to win some games until his rookie QB (not Tebow) would be ready.

Even if he still drafted Tebow, that wouldn't have sunk him, because he could always go back to Cutler at any point -- he would still be under contract.

And Cutler could easily get them to around .500 which he did later for the Bears -- even got them to the playoffs, although he sucked when there. . . .

If McMoron had done this, he could have traded Cutler later, and gotten better picks for him than they did get -- because what they could get was limited by his need to get Kyle Orton from the Bears.

Only they wouldn't have needed or wanted Orton, since he would have been starting Tebow. At that point he would have been fired of course. Tebow would get anybody fired who started him for any length of time. So, if McDaniels would have started Tebow in 2012 that would have lost him his job. :coffee:

Simple Jaded
12-15-2019, 10:45 PM
I miss Cutler, the scowl, the Go-****-Yourselves-attitude, the swag..

Should’ve been Rex Ryan as HC, we’d be talking Chips ... plural.

MOtorboat
12-15-2019, 10:46 PM
I miss Cutler, the scowl, the Go-****-Yourselves-attitude, the swag..

Should’ve been Rex Ryan as HC, we’d be talking Chips ... plural.

The missing the playoffs because he choked...

Simple Jaded
12-15-2019, 10:47 PM
McDaniels molests collies, btw.

Simple Jaded
12-15-2019, 10:47 PM
The missing the playoffs because he choked...

It was the defenses fault, you said so yourself.

Poet
12-15-2019, 10:47 PM
Tebow > Cutler.

McDaniels > VJ, John Fox, and Kubiak.

Northman
12-15-2019, 10:48 PM
I see many names in this thread that hated me because I thought Cutler sucked. :lol: Some stopped being fans of the Broncos because Cutler was shipped off. :lol:

Thats because you were huge dildo around this time. Ive forgiven you since then though.

BroncoWave
12-15-2019, 10:50 PM
Thats because you were huge dildo around this time. Ive forgiven you since then though.

Yeah well you've always been a huge dildo!

MOtorboat
12-15-2019, 10:51 PM
It was the defenses fault, you said so yourself.

Not doing this tonight. Cutler sucked. He proved it. There were other problems. He was a big one. Trading him was the right move.

Poet
12-15-2019, 10:52 PM
Damn, y'all were dildos and shit back then?

I think you're a bunch of dildos now!

:D

Northman
12-15-2019, 10:53 PM
Crazy seeing all those old posters. Clay and Requiem? Damn its been a long time. Lol

Simple Jaded
12-15-2019, 11:02 PM
Not doing this tonight. Cutler sucked. He proved it. There were other problems. He was a big one. Trading him was the right move.

I wore you down, y’all come if ya ever wanna try again.

BroncoWave
12-15-2019, 11:05 PM
The Cutler/Plummer wars were peak Broncomania/Broncos Forums.

Simple Jaded
12-15-2019, 11:07 PM
The Cutler/Plummer wars were peak Broncomania/Broncos Forums.

Especially for cause I loved both, should’ve been a Farvaa/Rodger or Brees/Phyllis deal ... we’d be talking Chips ... plural.

Tbolt
12-16-2019, 03:03 PM
Not doing this tonight. Cutler sucked. He proved it. There were other problems. He was a big one. Trading him was the right move.

Man, what an awful take.

You know who sucked? McDbag.

Cutler was a franchise QB. He took the Bears and their swiss cheese line to the NFCCG. Our line now looks like the Cowboys line in comparison to how bad that bears line was. But it reinforced all his bad habits playing there.

I will always maintain we were a year away with Shanny/Cutler. Mike had the capital the next year to retool the Defense. The offense was young and dangerous. Instead, we got McDbag, Orton, and eventually the lord and Savior Tebow. What a weird turn of events.

But you are viewing Cutler through the wrong lens if you don't take all that into account how it sidetracked his career/development.

Northman
12-16-2019, 03:07 PM
Mcd was bad but Cutler had maturity issues. And I was one of his biggest defenders.

Tbolt
12-16-2019, 03:11 PM
Mcd was bad but Cutler had maturity issues. And I was one of his biggest defenders.

We all know how it ended. What he needed he had in Denver. The funny thing is, the people that liked the McD hire thought that was the perfect fit for a team with the offensive tools we had. Then he disassembled it.

Had Cutler instead been traded to the Vikings, who also needed a QB, I think he has a much different career is all I am saying. That is the team that should have pulled the trigger on a deal.

aberdien
12-16-2019, 03:17 PM
We got a SB and some great entertainment during the Tebow years. I’m ok with it.

Simple Jaded
12-17-2019, 12:58 AM
Cutler’s only flaw was the lack of that fairytale rah rah enthusiasm bullshit, I’ll take talent over pretentious virgins that throw and act like cheerleaders any day.

“Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard” baaaaaaarf

Cutler had both.

Hawgdriver
12-17-2019, 01:03 AM
Cutler’s only flaw was the lack of that fairytale rah rah enthusiasm bullshit, I’ll take talent over pretentious virgins that throw and act like cheerleaders any day.

“Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard” baaaaaaarf

Cutler had both.

I'm such a sucker for that.

Hawgdriver
12-17-2019, 01:04 AM
I'm curious about the universe where the coaches suck Cutler's tootsie roll...bet you Cutler was pretty damned special. That's where Andy Reid shines. He sucks Tootsie Rolls iykwim.

Simple Jaded
12-17-2019, 01:09 AM
Cutler was right, McDaniels was an arrogant and untrustworthy cvnt, Rex Ryan was the right choice if you had to fire Shanatan.

BroncoWave
12-17-2019, 06:53 AM
Cutler’s only flaw was the lack of that fairytale rah rah enthusiasm bullshit, I’ll take talent over pretentious virgins that throw and act like cheerleaders any day.

“Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard” baaaaaaarf

Cutler had both.

Tebow and Cutler won the same number of playoff games in their careers.

Nomad
12-17-2019, 08:18 AM
LoL. Folks still trying to make a turd (Cutler) smell like roses.

Tbolt
12-17-2019, 03:26 PM
LoL. Folks still trying to make a turd (Cutler) smell like roses.

You have to put yourself in the mindset of when all this went down.

Cutler could have been great. He never came close to reaching his potential. The Bears wrecked him. He was getting hit on HANDOFFS! I have never seen a line that bad that wasn't an expansion team.

That's what turned him into smokin Jay Cutler. The thing is, he already had a lot of Eff it in him. A couple of years getting wrecked with average talent around him was enough to cement him as that guy. But it could have played out differently.

Simple Jaded
12-18-2019, 02:02 AM
Tebow and Cutler won the same number of playoff games in their careers.

Justin Bieber has won more MTV awards than Pavarotti.

MOtorboat
12-18-2019, 02:48 AM
Justin Bieber has won more MTV awards than Pavarotti.

Yeah, but Pavarotti actually made shit music.

BroncoWave
12-18-2019, 06:51 AM
Justin Bieber has won more MTV awards than Pavarotti.

NFL playoff spots are an objective measure of success. Your comparison would be more apt to something that is subjectively voted on like pro bowl or MVP.

Cugel
12-19-2019, 08:29 PM
We don't know what Cutler would have become if Shanahan stayed. I was opposed to trading him at the time.

But, did any of you ever see that crap reality TV show "Whoredom Cavallari" or whatever it was?

There was this scene with Cutler (now retired) going over to harass the employees of her company -- because he's a bored *******. He sat there and accused them of incompetence. They had to call her up and tell her "could you come and get your husband out of our hair so we can work?"

Her staff had been with her for years and were trying to work and he was basically interfering because he's an ******* and he had nothing else to do.

And that too is Jay Cutler. He doesn't get along with people very well because basically he just doesn't give a shit. That's not the stuff of champions.

Simple Jaded
12-19-2019, 09:01 PM
NFL playoff spots are an objective measure of success. Your comparison would be more apt to something that is subjectively voted on like pro bowl or MVP.

They’re an objective measure of team success, MTV Awards are more fitting of Tebow too.

Simple Jaded
12-19-2019, 09:02 PM
Yeah, but Pavarotti actually made shit music.

Compared to Bieber?

Hawgdriver
12-19-2019, 09:22 PM
Compared to Bieber?

There is no accounting for preference.

Accounting: a financial inventory of assets, debts, income, expenditures, and other items, which is submitted to the court.
Preference: choice of one thing rather than another.

Numbers ≠ choices.

Simple Jaded
12-20-2019, 03:47 AM
There is no accounting for preference.

Accounting: a financial inventory of assets, debts, income, expenditures, and other items, which is submitted to the court.
Preference: choice of one thing rather than another.

Numbers ≠ choices.
How does equation pencil in your preference to the “best song ever”?

7DnBrnc53
12-23-2019, 12:51 AM
Cutler was right, McDaniels was an arrogant and untrustworthy cvnt, Rex Ryan was the right choice if you had to fire Shanatan.

No way. Jeff Schwartz at HC and Rod Marinelli at DC would have been perfect. Leave the offense alone.

tripp
12-23-2019, 11:03 AM
Justin Bieber has won more MTV awards than Pavarotti.

That's because J-Biebs is the GOAT

Simple Jaded
12-24-2019, 12:15 AM
That's because J-Biebs is the GOAT

I’m more of a NKotB kinda guy.

Hawgdriver
12-26-2019, 02:15 PM
I’m more of a NKotB kinda guy.

You got the right stuff, baby.

aberdien
12-26-2019, 02:19 PM
I stan for NSync.

Hawgdriver
12-26-2019, 02:20 PM
I tend to want it that way.

aberdien
12-26-2019, 05:32 PM
I tend to want it that way.

When I was a kid I wanted to change my name to Nick and dye my hair blonde so I could be like Backstreet Boy, Nick Carter.

Poet
12-26-2019, 05:36 PM
When I was a kid I wanted to change my name to Nick and dye my hair blonde so I could be like Backstreet Boy, Nick Carter.

There's always time to live out your dreams, Nick.

Nomad
12-27-2019, 09:21 AM
When I was a kid I wanted to change my name to Nick and dye my hair blonde so I could be like Backstreet Boy, Nick Carter.

LoL.

Hawgdriver
12-27-2019, 11:56 AM
Backstreet Boys are sneaky good.

Plus chicks were into it.

If you karaoke a song like "I want it that way" and make serious eye contact with a girl, you are likely to steal her heart or be made fun of! I'll take those odds... :lol:

Nomad
12-27-2019, 12:04 PM
Backstreet Boys are sneaky good.

Plus chicks were into it.

If you karaoke a song like "I want it that way" and make serious eye contact with a girl, you are likely to steal her heart or be made fun of! I'll take those odds... :lol:

I was married when they came out, or at their peak.

I did think at the end of ‘This is the End’, the BSB’s were fitting.

Hawgdriver
12-27-2019, 01:11 PM
I was married when they came out, or at their peak.

I did think at the end of ‘This is the End’, the BSB’s were fitting.

I was married too. But I saw my buddies do it!

Simple Jaded
12-27-2019, 06:49 PM
You got the right stuff, baby.

We’re rough!