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View Full Version : Peter King says Denver picks a QB in first 2 rounds



broncobryce
02-27-2012, 03:22 PM
Last time he said this, he was right. We picked Tebow.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/27/combine/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a2

"... I think Denver picks a quarterback in the first two rounds ... I think New England's a candidate for the fifth straight draft to take a corner in the top two rounds ... The hip rehab of New England cornerback Ras-I Dowling is going very well. He'll be ready for most if not all of his offseason work ... The Jets would think seriously of Trent Richardson at 16."

Northman
02-27-2012, 03:24 PM
I was be surprised if it was someone in the first 2 rounds but not after.

underrated29
02-27-2012, 03:26 PM
not going to happen

Rick
02-27-2012, 03:40 PM
Seems like he is trying to make an obvious choice just like last time.

Last time we had just traded Cutler so to say we would grab a QB in first 2 rounds was kinda an easy pick to make.

This time most people believe Tebow is a bad QB, so again safe pick to make.

I will personally be very pissed if we do. I believe we have plenty of other needs and would rather give a former first round pick a full offseason as the starter to see if he can develop into the guy before throwing that pick away and grabbing his replacement.

BORDERLINE
02-27-2012, 03:53 PM
a 2nd round pick is to early on a QB IMO.

Tebow needs to fail first in order to justify such a high pick that can be used on a inside LB or a CB.

i'm sure the Broncos FO can find a QB with a "skill set" in the 5th and 6th round. Right??

cuzz4169
02-27-2012, 03:55 PM
Mychal Kendricks please!!!

Simple Jaded
02-27-2012, 04:00 PM
Denver has many, many needs and QB is one of them.......

SOCALORADO.
02-27-2012, 04:02 PM
As ive been sayin all along, DEN is going to be very active in FA, and they will be active in the draft as well.
Dont be suprised if DEN uses 2013 draft picks as ammo and moves back into the bottom of the 2nd round to grab Brock Osweiller.
Just watch, Osweiller will be a bronco.

cuzz4169
02-27-2012, 04:04 PM
Denver has many, many needs and QB is one of them.......

I can't say QB is a need till after this yr..Yes its a need bc Denver needs a backup. If Tebow is bad this yr then Denver has to find a QB.

TheReverend
02-27-2012, 04:15 PM
Did he really manage to make a football prediction in between his lengthy Starbucks coffee diatribes?

Simple Jaded
02-27-2012, 04:21 PM
I can't say QB is a need till after this yr..Yes its a need bc Denver needs a backup. If Tebow is bad this yr then Denver has to find a QB.

l don't know how bad a QB has to play before you think it's a need but it's undenyable that Denver needs a starter. That may change but you don't draft a backup when you have a backup starting.......

cuzz4169
02-27-2012, 04:38 PM
l don't know how bad a QB has to play before you think it's a need but it's undenyable that Denver needs a starter. That may change but you don't draft a backup when you have a backup starting.......

how do you give up on a kid when everyone knew he was 3yrs away from being a starter? If orton didn't blow and could win games Tebow wouldn't have been thrown into the starting lineup. Not his fault he got pushed to be a starter after about a yr & a half..Does Denver want to go down as another team who gave up on a Qb to soon?...Imagine if the Bucs didn't give up on Young. Give the kid a full yr of offseason and as a starter before we make judgement. How would Rogers & McNair be judged if they had to start right away? The jury is still out on Tebow. He had some nice moments and some bad moments (typical of a young qb who still is learning & wasn't in an nfl system in college) He helped get a team to the playoffs & got a playoff win. Why start fresh with a rookie? Build defense and if Tebow plays well you have a bright future...If not, you draft a qb next yr and you will still have that defense.

Simple Jaded
02-27-2012, 05:01 PM
how do you give up on a kid when everyone knew he was 3yrs away from being a starter? If orton didn't blow and could win games Tebow wouldn't have been thrown into the starting lineup. Not his fault he got pushed to be a starter after about a yr & a half..Does Denver want to go down as another team who gave up on a Qb to soon?...Imagine if the Bucs didn't give up on Young. Give the kid a full yr of offseason and as a starter before we make judgement. How would Rogers & McNair be judged if they had to start right away? The jury is still out on Tebow. He had some nice moments and some bad moments (typical of a young qb who still is learning & wasn't in an nfl system in college) He helped get a team to the playoffs & got a playoff win. Why start fresh with a rookie? Build defense and if Tebow plays well you have a bright future...If not, you draft a qb next yr and you will still have that defense.

Nobody said he was 3 years away from being a starter, where'd you get that? He was a 3rd round prospect for a team like NE who could afford the luxury, he was a 5th round prospect for teams like Denver who could not afford the luxury. Starter expectations were few and far between.

And, besides, ya know where most QB's who are 3 years away from being a starter spend most of their time? On the bench. So if you're saying he shoudn't be starting l agree.

The rest of your post is just fan excuse making.......

BORDERLINE
02-27-2012, 05:13 PM
Nobody said he was 3 years away from being a starter, where'd you get that? He was a 3rd round prospect for a team like NE who could afford the luxury, he was a 5th round prospect for teams like Denver who could not afford the luxury. Starter expectations were few and far between.

And, besides, ya know where most QB's who are 3 years away from being a starter spend most of their time? On the bench. So if you're saying he shoudn't be starting l agree.

The rest of your post is just fan excuse making.......

HE is/was a project QB. The difference is that he actually can WIN while he is learning the ropes. The way the tailored the offense did allow him to be successful so I give credit to that as well, but TEBOW also had a lot to do with that (see the Jets game and that lovely playoff game vs the Steelers).

The year after Farve "retired" the pack who where just a couple of plays from the SB. Had a 6-10 season under Rodgers. Tebow would not survive that type of season in Denver. He is not given the same slack more polished QB's get. But that IMO is offset by the amount of exposure he get's.

GEM
02-27-2012, 05:56 PM
:confused: Where was Tebow a 3rd round prediction? Everywhere I saw was 5-7. Everywhere said 3 years. ******* McDouchebag friggen sped it up by picking him in the first. Doesn't change what he can honestly do with the talent he has. Unfortunately Denver didn't have the choice to let him be a 3 year project.

Thanks McDouchenozzle.

cuzz4169
02-27-2012, 05:59 PM
Wasn't many if any GMs or coach's who said tebow would be a starter right away in the NFL. Everyone said he was raw a project with great intangibles and 2-3 yrs away from being productive. He got thrusted into the starting role. How many rookie qb's out of all that are drafted are studs right away their first yr or 2? same with the DT position it takes a yr or 2 for them to learn the nfl game. what does the broncos have to losewith him starting another yr? He helped a team that had 4 wins win 8 and make playoffs. I believe the kid never yes never loses more than 6 games in a season just bc of what he brings to the table with intangibles and his will to win. Now add that with some good players and him learning and getting better at the qb position you have a nice player. If he doesn't get better then you find another qb. I'm not saying he will only win 6 games a yr either.

BORDERLINE
02-27-2012, 06:22 PM
Tebow needed to get drafted by a team that was gonna give him the time to grow and let him ease into the pro game. As GEM pointed out McDouche jumped the GUN and actually moved up in order to get him. If Orton would have just played somewhere near the area of decent and won more than 4 games in 2 years maybe Tebow is still on the bench.

With McD gone and the Broncos in the pitts of the NFL. Add a new regime and it was almost written that Tebow would be in demand. Not only to play but for his future to be decided. Tebow will have to improve no doubt but he will have to do this all while winning more than losing. He will not be afforded the luxury of a learning curve or a bad year. A good example: If A.Dalton has a 6-10 year next season. His numbers slipped a bit but not horribly. He will no doubt still be there the following year

nevcraw
02-27-2012, 06:48 PM
Normal QB's from non spread offenses hit their stride around year 4.

Many thought he was 2-4 years away from starting if ever. I think he's ahead of schedule.
wasting an early pick on a non bluechipper qb would be ridculous. hopefully king is wrong.

catfish
02-27-2012, 07:32 PM
:confused: Where was Tebow a 3rd round prediction? Everywhere I saw was 5-7. Everywhere said 3 years. ******* McDouchebag friggen sped it up by picking him in the first. Doesn't change what he can honestly do with the talent he has. Unfortunately Denver didn't have the choice to let him be a 3 year project.

Thanks McDouchenozzle.

I think ESPN had him as a 3rd rounder, nfl.com thought he was 1st round, SI thought he was first round

a few other sites had him going 1-3rd round, Bills Jags or Pats were the teams being tossed around for a 2nd round pick

I think the project tag referred to his throwing motion and lack of experience in a NFL offense.

Jsteve01
02-27-2012, 07:43 PM
I didn't see anyone say round 5-7. Nor did I hear 1st rounder. I did hear a lot of people saying 2nd to 4th.

Simple Jaded
02-27-2012, 07:44 PM
HE is/was a project QB. The difference is that he actually can WIN while he is learning the ropes. The way the tailored the offense did allow him to be successful so I give credit to that as well, but TEBOW also had a lot to do with that (see the Jets game and that lovely playoff game vs the Steelers).

The year after Farve "retired" the pack who where just a couple of plays from the SB. Had a 6-10 season under Rodgers. Tebow would not survive that type of season in Denver. He is not given the same slack more polished QB's get. But that IMO is offset by the amount of exposure he get's.

You're not actually saying TEBOW is being treated unfairly? And how can you complain about TEBOW surviving a 6-10 season when he was drafted after Ortonary went 8-8? And where does it say a QB's job is safe just because the team can WIN with him? While we're on that subject, how does that not apply to all 22 starters?

Talk about "slack"? You gotta be F'n kidding! If his name wasn't TIM TEBOW he wouldn't even be starting.

These are just a few questions l have about the hypocrisy of Tebow/Gator fans. Pathetic.......

catfish
02-27-2012, 07:53 PM
You're not actually saying TEBOW is being treated unfairly? And how can you complain about TEBOW surviving a 6-10 season when he was drafted after Ortonary went 8-8? And where does it say a QB's job is safe just because the team can WIN with him? While we're on that subject, how does that not apply to all 22 starters?

Talk about "slack"? You gotta be F'n kidding! If his name wasn't TIM TEBOW he wouldn't even be starting.

These are just a few questions l have about the hypocrisy of Tebow/Gator fans. Pathetic.......

How many QB's had a losing record this year that will be back next year...do you think Tebow would get the same slack? That is all Border is saying

Simple Jaded
02-27-2012, 08:09 PM
How many QB's had a losing record this year that will be back next year...do you think Tebow would get the same slack? That is all Border is saying

No, it isn't all he was saying. I don't judge QB's by team record anyway so you're asking the wrong person.

.......I hope ya'll aren't saying that TEBOW should survive 6-10 just because Aaron Rodgers did, that's utterly ridiculous so l'll give you the benefit of the doubt.......

catfish
02-27-2012, 08:12 PM
No, it isn't all he was saying. I don't judge QB's by team record anyway so you're asking the wrong person.

.......I hope ya'll aren't saying that TEBOW should survive 6-10 just because Aaron Rodgers did, that's utterly ridiculous so l'll give you the benefit of the doubt.......

depends on how he looks during the 6-10 I suppse. If he is improving keep him, if not cut him

nevcraw
02-27-2012, 08:19 PM
No, it isn't all he was saying. I don't judge QB's by team record anyway so you're asking the wrong person.

.......I hope ya'll aren't saying that TEBOW should survive 6-10 just because Aaron Rodgers did, that's utterly ridiculous so l'll give you the benefit of the doubt.......

sorry fair unfair but qb's and coaches are ultimately judged by wins and losses.. your pretty much the only one who dismisses record.
it's pretty simple tebow is starting because he won enough all the way through 1st round playoff game with the same team that orton could only muster one win with through 5.

Simple Jaded
02-27-2012, 08:19 PM
depends on how he looks during the 6-10 I suppse. If he is improving keep him, if not cut him

Exactly. But even if he is improving, you either start TEBOW or cut/trade him. The only way you keep him is if he demonstates that he is a franchise QB, it's pointless to keep an average starter because an average starter is what led to TEBOW being drafted in the first place.

And you simply cannot keep TEBOW as a backup.

The question l have is what constitutes "improving", to me there is a fine line between being cut/traded and the HoF for Tebow/Gator fans. My guess is that 3000 yards and 55% passing is about all that stands in the way of NFL MVP.......

catfish
02-27-2012, 08:24 PM
Exactly. But even if he is improving, you either start TEBOW or cut/trade him. The only way you keep him is if he demonstates that he is a franchise QB, it's pointless to keep an average starter because an average starter is what led to TEBOW being drafted in the first place.

And you simply cannot keep TEBOW as a backup.

The question l have is what constitutes "improving", to me there is a fine line between being cut/traded and the HoF for Tebow/Gator fans. My guess is that 3000 yards and 55% passing is about all that stands in the way of NFL MVP.......

ehh..completion% is a product of play selection longer passes=lower%, yards are a product of attempts. I am more interested in YPA td/int and to a lesser extent 3rd down %.

To me it boils down to if the FO believes he is improving. I have enough trust in Elway and Co at this point that if they start him I think they feel he is their best option, and if not they feel he isn't. I won't criticize either way.

pipes
02-27-2012, 08:30 PM
I hope that they haven't pigeon-holed any of their selections for certain positions. I don't think the roster is set at ANY position other than P and K (providing they do the smart thing and keep Prater)

They can't miss on high draft picks right now so hopefully they draft the BEST player on their board....and don't just grab a QB for shits n giggles

topscribe
02-27-2012, 08:37 PM
How many QB's had a losing record this year that will be back next year...do you think Tebow would get the same slack? That is all Border is saying

I think that would depend on whom you are talking about. I would bet
Tebow's adoring fans would be just as quick to pin a losing record on
someone else as they have been in giving him most, if not all, the credit
for the wins . . .

-----

nevcraw
02-27-2012, 08:46 PM
I think that would depend on whom you are talking about. I would bet
Tebow's adoring fans would be just as quick to pin a losing record on
someone else as they have been in giving him most, if not all, the credit
for the wins . . .

-----

The good news is we don't need to pin anything on him except a winning record and playoff winner. He had his best game of the season against the best Defense in the league in the playoffs no less. good start for 16 games played by a project QB.

Superchop 7
02-27-2012, 08:49 PM
Nick Foles - 6’5 - 243 - 10 5/8 hands - Foles was the most criticized on TV today and of course the media drones that blindly hold everything said on TV as truth, have gobbled this all up. Once again, like the Cousins situation but only backwards, here’s another case of people making the same mistakes year after year and never learning from it. Every year a quarterback comes out that didn’t take snaps from under center. They struggle to learn the footwork of dropping back. By the time they’ve gone through OTAs, mini camp, training camp, and preseason, they looked a thousand times better. I guess people forget because the last time this happen was waaayyy back in 2011 with a guy who didn’t get drafted until the first pick overall. He struggled to learn the footwork and he still has flaws. That could be what cost him to only pass for a little over 4,000 yards as a rookie and 21 touchdowns. I’m not saying that Floes is Nick is Cam Newton, they are two completely different players but the problem with the footwork is the same. They also like to call Foles inconsistent. Well, let’s look at his stats as a starter for the last three seasons. He must have only had a 50% completion percentage and a roller coaster ride of a career, right?

2011 YARDS 4334 COMP % 69.1 TD 28 INT 14 QB RATING 145.6
2010 YARDS 3191 COMP % 67.1 TD 20 INT 10 QB RATING 140.9
2009 YARDS 2486 COMP % 63.6 TD 19 INT 9 QB RATING 125.6



Hmmm, so his yards increased every year, his completion percentage increased every year, his touchdowns increased every year, his quarterback rating increased every year, and he always maintained a 2 to 1 touchdown to interception ratio. Geez, what was this guy, bi-polar or something. He’s all over the place. Seriously, Foles has to improve his footwork but he can make every throw and he’s smart. He’s the third best prospect right now. Ryan Tannehill has bigger upside but he’s also a bigger risk.


SOURCE: NFL COMBINE 2012

topscribe
02-27-2012, 08:49 PM
The good news is we don't need to pin anything on him except a winning record and playoff winner. He had his best game of the season against the best Defense in the league in the playoffs no less. good start for 16 games played by a project QB.

Again, I would have felt a lot better about that game, were it not for the other four of the last five . . .

-----

catfish
02-27-2012, 08:49 PM
I think that would depend on whom you are talking about. I would bet
Tebow's adoring fans would be just as quick to pin a losing record on
someone else as they have been in giving him most, if not all, the credit
for the wins . . .

-----

I was thinking Bradford and McCoy, and while just like Tebow isn't the only reason they win, he isn't the only reason they lose either

catfish
02-27-2012, 08:52 PM
Nick Foles - 6’5 - 243 - 10 5/8 hands - Foles was the most criticized on TV today and of course the media drones that blindly hold everything said on TV as truth, have gobbled this all up. Once again, like the Cousins situation but only backwards, here’s another case of people making the same mistakes year after year and never learning from it. Every year a quarterback comes out that didn’t take snaps from under center. They struggle to learn the footwork of dropping back. By the time they’ve gone through OTAs, mini camp, training camp, and preseason, they looked a thousand times better. I guess people forget because the last time this happen was waaayyy back in 2011 with a guy who didn’t get drafted until the first pick overall. He struggled to learn the footwork and he still has flaws. That could be what cost him to only pass for a little over 4,000 yards as a rookie and 21 touchdowns. I’m not saying that Floes is Nick is Cam Newton, they are two completely different players but the problem with the footwork is the same. They also like to call Foles inconsistent. Well, let’s look at his stats as a starter for the last three seasons. He must have only had a 50% completion percentage and a roller coaster ride of a career, right?

2011 YARDS 4334 COMP % 69.1 TD 28 INT 14 QB RATING 145.6
2010 YARDS 3191 COMP % 67.1 TD 20 INT 10 QB RATING 140.9
2009 YARDS 2486 COMP % 63.6 TD 19 INT 9 QB RATING 125.6



Hmmm, so his yards increased every year, his completion percentage increased every year, his touchdowns increased every year, his quarterback rating increased every year, and he always maintained a 2 to 1 touchdown to interception ratio. Geez, what was this guy, bi-polar or something. He’s all over the place. Seriously, Foles has to improve his footwork but he can make every throw and he’s smart. He’s the third best prospect right now. Ryan Tannehill has bigger upside but he’s also a bigger risk.


SOURCE: NFL COMBINE 2012

ehh I wouldn't get too hung up on college stats, the guy you currently have had impressive stats in college

HORSEPOWER 56
02-27-2012, 08:56 PM
I think it really depends on who we bring in. If we bring in a no-kidding starting potential backup FA that will actually provide Tebow with competition, then I doubt we draft a QB high. If we go after a guy like Delhomme or Brunell as that veteran/mentor type for Tebow then the possibility exists that we might nab a QB higher in the draft in case Tebow struggles, doesn't improve, or regresses.

Honestly, if we do decide to go QB in the first couple of rounds, I can see us taking a guy like Weeden. He's older so some teams who are looking for a starting "franchise" QB will avoid him. We're not necessarily looking to replace our starting QB, but to push him. Weeden is older, wiser, and probably would fit in well in Denver already having played on a professional sports team. He's the type of guy that wouldn't take the Tebow hype personally because he already understands the business side of pro sports. I'd be okay with it, but I really don't want to sniff a QB before the 3rd round or later.

Come round 4, if Russell Wilson is still on the board when we pick, I'm seriously thinking of pulling the trigger if I'm EFX. Dude can ball and the only knock against him is his height. I think he could step in for Tebow in a pinch and still provide that "dual threat look" so the playbook doesn't have to get completely get thrown out the window.

Lancane
02-27-2012, 08:56 PM
The good news is we don't need to pin anything on him except a winning record and playoff winner. He had his best game of the season against the best Defense in the league in the playoffs no less. good start for 16 games played by a project QB.

Oh, you could pin a lot on him, and he barely had a winning record...he also couldn't pass for shit against far worse defenses throughout the year or in the game that followed that miraculous playoff game that you're all riding as something of greatness instead of something we'll see only once in a great while - while we're at it, doesn't Orton hold a couple Denver passing records? Who could have believed that...couldn't be a fluke could it? Tebow also fell apart during the stretch when he could have helped secure the AFCW title, had not San Diego helped us by defeating Oakland, then there would be no playoffs.

Lancane
02-27-2012, 09:03 PM
Honestly, come round 4, if Russell Wilson is still on the board when we pick, I'm seriously thinking of pulling the trigger if he's still on the board if I'm EFX. Dude can ball and the only knock against him is his height. I think he could step in for Tebow in a pinch and still provide that "dual threat look" so the playbook doesn't have to get completely get thrown out the window.

Am I one of the few that read that Denver plans to run a pro-style offense - per John Fox at the combine? I'm just wondering, because Hammer and now you HP are talking as if the Broncos are going to continue with the Read-Option as the base offense, while Fox has pretty much said it's gone for the most part, they'll still utilize some Read-Option plays now and then, but for the most part the playbook is going to be in all truthfulness more like the one we saw Orton running before.

topscribe
02-27-2012, 09:03 PM
I was thinking Bradford and McCoy, and while just like Tebow isn't the only reason they win, he isn't the only reason they lose either

That's like saying Joe Mays isn't the only reason they lose. Of course, he
isn't. But people keep pointing to that one game against Pittsburgh. It's
like those other for didn't even exist. Or even the previous games. For
instance, were it not for Prater's cannon leg, the fumble D.J. caused, the
Bears' RB stepping out of bounds when the Bears had the game won,
Tebow would not have a winning record. Yet how many times have I heard
and read that Tebow led the Broncos to victory?

I don't intentionally mean this to appear to bash Tebow. He did some good
things -- to deny that would be dishonest. I'm just trying to be real here . . .

-----

HORSEPOWER 56
02-27-2012, 09:07 PM
Am I one of the few that read that Denver plans to run a pro-style offense - per John Fox at the combine? I'm just wondering, because Hammer and now you HP are talking as if the Broncos are going to continue with the Read-Option as the base offense, while Fox has pretty much said it's gone for the most part, they'll still utilize some Read-Option plays now and then, but for the most part the playbook is going to be in all truthfulness more like the one we saw Orton running before.

I'm not saying read/option, I'm saying someone who provides the run threat on passing downs. Someone you have to account for. We can't bring in a Kyle Orton clone and expect him to run bootlegs, rollouts, or scramble if he gets blitzed like Tebow/Russell and yes, Luck and RGIII can.

That's what I mean. I'm not talking about read/option, I'm talking about an athlete QB who can make plays with his feet when the plays break down and isn't a statue who is completely dependent on his offensive line keeping his jersey clean.

catfish
02-27-2012, 09:15 PM
That's like saying Joe Mays isn't the only reason they lose. Of course, he
isn't. But people keep pointing to that one game against Pittsburgh. It's
like those other for didn't even exist. Or even the previous games. For
instance, were it not for Prater's cannon leg, the fumble D.J. caused, the
Bears' RB stepping out of bounds when the Bears had the game won,
Tebow would not have a winning record. Yet how many times have I heard
and read that Tebow led the Broncos to victory?

I don't intentionally mean this to appear to bash Tebow. He did some good
things -- to deny that would be dishonest. I'm just trying to be real here . . .

-----

and had there not been 6 drops in the game it may not have been close, not knocking the receivers, just saying that breaks go both ways. Denver capitalized on theirs

It is always going to be said the QB led a team to victory when they win, just like he will be roundly boo'ed when they lose. It doesn't take away from the rest of the team, it is just the way it is in sports, the QB, the pitcher, the NBA allstar get all the credit and all the blame even though anyone with a brain knows it's a team sport and everyone must contribute to win

Unless you have a truly dominant defense for a long period of time (steelers/ravens)the QB is going to be the hero or the goat

Lancane
02-27-2012, 09:24 PM
I'm not saying read/option, I'm saying someone who provides the run threat on passing downs. Someone you have to account for. We can't bring in a Kyle Orton clone and expect him to run bootlegs, rollouts, or scramble if he gets blitzed like Tebow/Russell and yes, Luck and RGIII can.

That's what I mean. I'm not talking about read/option, I'm talking about an athlete QB who can make plays with his feet when the plays break down and isn't a statue who is completely dependent on his offensive line keeping his jersey clean.

Okay, I was just wondering...

nevcraw
02-27-2012, 09:29 PM
Again, I would have felt a lot better about that game, were it not for the other four of the last five . . .

-----

shocker -- a young qb is inconsistent.. It's happened to the best of them. why is Tebow overly scrutinized for being inconsistent? You should feel good. He played his best on the big stage and made plays that people were doubting he could make.. Lot's of reasons for hope if you are a glass half full guy..

BORDERLINE
02-27-2012, 09:40 PM
Yet how many times have I heard
and read that Tebow led the Broncos to victory?

I don't intentionally mean this to appear to bash Tebow. He did some good
things -- to deny that would be dishonest. I'm just trying to be real here . . .

-----

hey TOP,

That's where I feel the disconnect comes from between the fan base. Where one group of fans completely dislikes the way Tebow is made out to be the SAVIOR of the Denver Broncos. These fans would much rather see VON MILLER in the headlines before Tebow get's mentioned. And to some extent they have a point.

What i'm trying to say is Tebow is one of the most ICONIC figures ever to touch the pigskin. And when you have amazing games like we had this year it only builds his HYPE. Sure some of them the defense did more than their fare share of duty. But in other occasion Tebow did lead his team back and deserves the amount of praise. I like having my team mentioned on SC and NFL network. Last year we had no kind of tv coverage no one gave a rats azz about the Broncos because we where stinking it up. We selected 2nd overall!!! for god sakes.

I think this year is gonna be huge for how the Broncos move forward. Either Timmy Wins or Timmy will be looking to get moved. In no way will Tebow survive a 6-10 year NO WAY. He could pass better run less but he will not survive that kind of season.

BORDERLINE
02-27-2012, 09:49 PM
You're not actually saying TEBOW is being treated unfairly? And how can you complain about TEBOW surviving a 6-10 season when he was drafted after Ortonary went 8-8? And where does it say a QB's job is safe just because the team can WIN with him? While we're on that subject, how does that not apply to all 22 starters?

Talk about "slack"? You gotta be F'n kidding! If his name wasn't TIM TEBOW he wouldn't even be starting.

These are just a few questions l have about the hypocrisy of Tebow/Gator fans. Pathetic.......

To an extent YES Tebow will not be given any room to fail. Am I wrong for stating he will not survive a 6-10 year? NO because it's the truth. Tebow what's drafted by McDouche because his little F'N EGO believed if anyone was gonna mold him into a Pro QB it should have been him. This had nothing to do with Orton but it McDouche's EGO.

Catfish came up with solid names. Do you think the Rams are looking to ship out Bradford after that nice little season he just had? Where he actually regressed!. Matt Ryan again falling on his face in the playoffs! do you think the Falcons are discussing about letting him go??....my best guess is NO. If the Tebow lead Broncos didn't Win al those games after starting 1-4 YOU would have nothing to worry about. This all would be a moot point. But let me remind you he lead the Broncos to 7 wins and a playoff victory and pretty much outplayed the Broncos of having a shot to replace him with LUCK or RG3. Which we where very much in the running for in middle October.

broncobryce
02-27-2012, 10:38 PM
To an extent YES Tebow will not be given any room to fail. Am I wrong for stating he will not survive a 6-10 year? NO because it's the truth. Tebow what's drafted by McDouche because his little F'N EGO believed if anyone was gonna mold him into a Pro QB it should have been him. This had nothing to do with Orton but it McDouche's EGO.

Catfish came up with solid names. Do you think the Rams are looking to ship out Bradford after that nice little season he just had? Where he actually regressed!. Matt Ryan again falling on his face in the playoffs! do you think the Falcons are discussing about letting him go??....my best guess is NO. If the Tebow lead Broncos didn't Win al those games after starting 1-4 YOU would have nothing to worry about. This all would be a moot point. But let me remind you he lead the Broncos to 7 wins and a playoff victory and pretty much outplayed the Broncos of having a shot to replace him with LUCK or RG3. Which we where very much in the running for in middle October.

Bingo. Some people are so soon to forget, or should I say drink too much haterade.

For God's sake we made the playoffs for the first time in a long time and won a playoff game.
But that's not good enough for some people.

I wonder if they were pissed when Demaryius was streaking down the sideline for the GW touchdown.

Medford Bronco
02-27-2012, 10:55 PM
Denver has many, many needs and QB is one of them.......

You mean at WR, OL, CB, all the D line.:lol:

BORDERLINE
02-27-2012, 11:23 PM
Bingo. Some people are so soon to forget, or should I say drink too much haterade.

For God's sake we made the playoffs for the first time in a long time and won a playoff game.
But that's not good enough for some people.

I wonder if they were pissed when Demaryius was streaking down the sideline for the GW touchdown.

No and Yes...I think every Broncos fan genuinely wants The Broncos to Win every single game. Just in a certain way though.

Some want the QB to throw it for 300+ light it up and put up the numbers. Some people really get off on that and that's cool.

But when you have a QB like Tim Tebow and everything that comes with him (his own Sport Center and own NFL Playbook Show) Lot's of hype and national media attention and for being a below average passer just makes their heads explode. Everything he does right is a fluke and everything that he does wrong is un-fixable.

Simple Jaded
02-27-2012, 11:41 PM
sorry fair unfair but qb's and coaches are ultimately judged by wins and losses.. your pretty much the only one who dismisses record.
it's pretty simple tebow is starting because he won enough all the way through 1st round playoff game with the same team that orton could only muster one win with through 5.

Tebow was a bystander 95% of the time. They won games with him, give him a cookie but it doesn't make him a legitimate NFL starter. And l am nowhere near the only one who dismisses record.

When it comes to Broncos message boards a QB's win/loss is the most abused stat ever. Cutler's record gave Broncos fans a reason to wipe their ass with him once he was denigrated and traded now Tebow's record gives Broncos fans a reason to wipe their ass with reality.

One of these QB's can throw the **** out of a football, the other can sell the shit outta of underwear and pointless memoirs. But you couldn't tell that by their record.......

Simple Jaded
02-27-2012, 11:46 PM
ehh..completion% is a product of play selection longer passes=lower%, yards are a product of attempts. I am more interested in YPA td/int and to a lesser extent 3rd down %.

To me it boils down to if the FO believes he is improving. I have enough trust in Elway and Co at this point that if they start him I think they feel he is their best option, and if not they feel he isn't. I won't criticize either way.

Tebow's completion percentage is a function of playcalling? I'm getting ****** headache.......

BORDERLINE
02-27-2012, 11:53 PM
They won games with him, give him a cookie

again he WINS Games and it's nothing, a fluke. But when he does bad OH Sh** duck for cover one of Tebows Helicopter footballs start flying into the sidelines.

If they gave Orton and Tebow cookies for each victory this year? WHO has the most cookies?

Answer: Orton because Tebow would never let his fellow man starve and would gladly give Kyle his share of the cookies. And still this man is hated:tsk:

MOtorboat
02-27-2012, 11:55 PM
again he WINS Games and it's nothing, a fluke. But when he does bad OH Sh** duck for cover one of Tebows Helicopter footballs start flying into the sidelines.

If they gave Orton and Tebow cookies for each victory this year? WHO has the most cookies?

Answer: Orton because Tebow would never let his fellow man starve and would gladly give Kyle his share of the cookies. And still this man is hated:tsk:

Orton has nothing to do with Tebow not being a capable quarterback.

Lots of charitable people in the world, too.

Simple Jaded
02-28-2012, 12:02 AM
again he WINS Games and it's nothing, a fluke. But when he does bad OH Sh** duck for cover one of Tebows Helicopter footballs start flying into the sidelines.

If they gave Orton and Tebow cookies for each victory this year? WHO has the most cookies?

Answer: Orton because Tebow would never let his fellow man starve and would gladly give Kyle his share of the cookies. And still this man is hated:tsk:

I don't hate Tebow, l hate this kind of poetic ****** bullshit.......

randyschwimmer7
02-28-2012, 12:03 AM
If there was a glimmer of hope to draft the best QB we've seen come out of college in years, you better believe EFX would JUMP at the chance.

topscribe
02-28-2012, 12:11 AM
shocker -- a young qb is inconsistent.. It's happened to the best of them. why is Tebow overly scrutinized for being inconsistent? You should feel good. He played his best on the big stage and made plays that people were doubting he could make.. Lot's of reasons for hope if you are a glass half full guy..

I guess you don't know me very well. You might ask most of the posters
on this board. I have often been made fun of my hyper-optimism and
tendency to stand up for players. And now I have someone saying I am
less than a "glass half full guy." :pound: Irony of ironies . . .

So Tebow wins one game, and he's deity. He loses four and he's young.
He's made plays on occasion that people doubted he could make. He has
also missed at other times on the very same types of plays, giving cause
to doubt some more.

I hope he serves me up a big helping of crow. I really do. But, meanwhile,
it is my fondest desire to get somebody in here that will provide some stiff
competition for him and even wrest the job from him. Whether somebody
can, or whether he can't, the Broncos will be better for it. That is all I'm
saying . . .

-----

topscribe
02-28-2012, 12:13 AM
again he WINS Games and it's nothing, a fluke. But when he does bad OH Sh** duck for cover one of Tebows Helicopter footballs start flying into the sidelines.

If they gave Orton and Tebow cookies for each victory this year? WHO has the most cookies?

Answer: Orton because Tebow would never let his fellow man starve and would gladly give Kyle his share of the cookies. And still this man is hated:tsk:

You need help, my friend . . . :sad:

-----

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 12:17 AM
You need help, my friend . . . :sad:

-----

it was a joke TOP. I knew as soon as I posted it you where gonna flip:elefant:

I know where you stand and you know where I stand. This upcoming season is gonna answer all that for us TOP

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 12:19 AM
Lots of charitable people in the world, too.

I wouldn't share my cookies:D

topscribe
02-28-2012, 12:35 AM
it was a joke TOP. I knew as soon as I posted it you where gonna flip:elefant:

I know where you stand and you know where I stand. This upcoming season is gonna answer all that for us TOP

I don't think you do know where I stand. For some reason, there is a
residue here who thinks I'm still rooting for Orton. Orton is gone. For all my
criticism of Tebow, I am rooting for Tebow! I just see what I see is all.
And more than that, I'm rooting for the Broncos. Which is why I want a
real battle for the starting position at QB. If the position can be upgraded,
then upgrade it! I don't care what the last name of the starter is.

That's where I stand. :coffee:

-----

Simple Jaded
02-28-2012, 12:42 AM
Tebow wasn't inconsistent, he was consistently inept.......

nevcraw
02-28-2012, 12:48 AM
I guess you don't know me very well. You might ask most of the posters
on this board. I have often been made fun of my hyper-optimism and
tendency to stand up for players. And now I have someone saying I am
less than a "glass half full guy." :pound: Irony of ironies . . .

So Tebow wins one game, and he's deity. He loses four and he's young.
He's made plays on occasion that people doubted he could make. He has
also missed at other times on the very same types of plays, giving cause
to doubt some more.

I hope he serves me up a big helping of crow. I really do. But, meanwhile,
it is my fondest desire to get somebody in here that will provide some stiff
competition for him and even wrest the job from him. Whether somebody
can, or whether he can't, the Broncos will be better for it. That is all I'm
saying . . .

-----

jeez luiz -- here we go with old martyr bit -- I was speaking for myself as being a half full guy. not sure you could possibly the my post as mean spirited even making you the target.
and for the record he won more than one game..I am sure you do hope someone takes his job - I on the other hand want him to to the quarterback for the next 12 years -- not cuz I am a tebow fanboy (broncos fan since 83) because I love winners and players with "it". and am sick and tired of the constant change at the number one position on the team.. It's time to develop and create a qb not hope for another Elway.. and this kid has everything you'd want with a whole lotta room to grow..

Canmore
02-28-2012, 12:50 AM
Tebow was a bystander 95% of the time. They won games with him, give him a cookie but it doesn't make him a legitimate NFL starter. And l am nowhere near the only one who dismisses record.

When it comes to Broncos message boards a QB's win/loss is the most abused stat ever. Cutler's record gave Broncos fans a reason to wipe their ass with him once he was denigrated and traded now Tebow's record gives Broncos fans a reason to wipe their ass with reality.

One of these QB's can throw the **** out of a football, the other can sell the shit outta of underwear and pointless memoirs. But you couldn't tell that by their record.......

Win/loss is the most abused stat ever? Hardly! They keep track of wins and losses for quarterbacks with good reason. They have their hand on the ball every play and they are the most important player on the team. Tebow wins games. I don't have a clue whether or not he is the long term answer but for right now, just as in five games into 2011, I want to see him play. He has earned the right to start another season.

This team was 1-4 and left for roadkill we were so bad and Tebow lit a spark. He was worth the price of admission (Sunday Ticket) and I want to see more. Admittedly, he has flaws, major flaws but he seems to overcome them. More importantly, so far he has shown the ability to be clutch that we haven't seen in over a decade. Whatever IT is, Tebow generated it and I want to see him with an off-season and training camp under his belt.

nevcraw
02-28-2012, 12:50 AM
I guess you don't know me very well. You might ask most of the posters
on this board. I have often been made fun of my hyper-optimism and
tendency to stand up for players. And now I have someone saying I am
less than a "glass half full guy." :pound: Irony of ironies . . .

So Tebow wins one game, and he's deity. He loses four and he's young.
He's made plays on occasion that people doubted he could make. He has
also missed at other times on the very same types of plays, giving cause
to doubt some more.

I hope he serves me up a big helping of crow. I really do. But, meanwhile,
it is my fondest desire to get somebody in here that will provide some stiff
competition for him and even wrest the job from him. Whether somebody
can, or whether he can't, the Broncos will be better for it. That is all I'm
saying . . .

-----

looks you are rooting for him alright!!

topscribe
02-28-2012, 12:55 AM
jeez luiz -- here we go with old martyr bit -- I was speaking for myself as being a half full guy. not sure you could possibly the my post as mean spirited even making you the target.
and for the record he won more than one game..I am sure you do hope someone takes his job - I on the other hand want him to to the quarterback for the next 12 years -- not cuz I am a tebow fanboy (broncos fan since 83) because I love winners and players with "it". and am sick and tired of the constant change at the number one position on the team.. It's time to develop and create a qb not hope for another Elway.. and this kid has everything you'd want with a whole lotta room to grow..

I see. I'm the one with the "martyr bit," while you take everything I say
personally. :lol: Okay. Whatever.

Anyway, I hope Tebow is the QB for the next 12 years if he is the best
man for the job, and only if he is the best man for the job. If someone
comes along who can upgrade the position, then I want that someone in
there. Because I'm a Broncos fan. I don't want to keep a lesser QB (if he
is that) around because I'm tired of change. I want the best player there.
I would think a long-time fan of the team such as you would want that,
too. That is all.

-----

topscribe
02-28-2012, 12:56 AM
looks you are rooting for him alright!!

I am. But to closet fanbois, it might not appear that way . . .

-----

nevcraw
02-28-2012, 12:57 AM
Tebow was a bystander 95% of the time. They won games with him, give him a cookie but it doesn't make him a legitimate NFL starter. And l am nowhere near the only one who dismisses record.

When it comes to Broncos message boards a QB's win/loss is the most abused stat ever. Cutler's record gave Broncos fans a reason to wipe their ass with him once he was denigrated and traded now Tebow's record gives Broncos fans a reason to wipe their ass with reality.

One of these QB's can throw the **** out of a football, the other can sell the shit outta of underwear and pointless memoirs. But you couldn't tell that by their record.......

One of them is a petulant child who's still trying to learn how to be a man the other breaks rocks and inspires his teammates to be better than they are. i choose Tebow and truth be told I'm not a bears fan.. I root for the broncos.

topscribe
02-28-2012, 12:58 AM
Win/loss is the most abused stat ever? Hardly! They keep track of wins and losses for quarterbacks with good reason. They have their hand on the ball every play and they are the most important player on the team. Tebow wins games. I don't have a clue whether or not he is the long term answer but for right now, just as in five games into 2011, I want to see him play. He has earned the right to start another season.

This team was 1-4 and left for roadkill we were so bad and Tebow lit a spark. He was worth the price of admission (Sunday Ticket) and I want to see more. Admittedly, he has flaws, major flaws but he seems to overcome them. More importantly, so far he has shown the ability to be clutch that we haven't seen in over a decade. Whatever IT is, Tebow generated it and I want to see him with an off-season and training camp under his belt.

No, my friend, he has earned the right to start another preseason. That is
where EFX stands, and they made that clear. He will have to earn the
right to start the season during that preseason . . .

-----

Simple Jaded
02-28-2012, 01:04 AM
Win/loss is the most abused stat ever? Hardly! They keep track of wins and losses for quarterbacks with good reason. They have their hand on the ball every play and they are the most important player on the team. Tebow wins games. I don't have a clue whether or not he is the long term answer but for right now, just as in five games into 2011, I want to see him play. He has earned the right to start another season.

This team was 1-4 and left for roadkill we were so bad and Tebow lit a spark. He was worth the price of admission (Sunday Ticket) and I want to see more. Admittedly, he has flaws, major flaws but he seems to overcome them. More importantly, so far he has shown the ability to be clutch that we haven't seen in over a decade. Whatever IT is, Tebow generated it and I want to see him with an off-season and training camp under his belt.

How has Tebow earned the right to start another season given the way he's actually played while other starting jobs are fair game? Especially considering QB's "have their hand on the ball every play and they are the most important player on the team"? That is total and utter bullshit.

And who cares what you want to see? You're pretty full of yourself. What makes your preferences more important than anyone elses? I wanna see him replaced but neither of our opinions should have any bearing on who starts.

As for the flaws he overcomes, so ****** what? How bout they find a QB without so many flaws to overcome? And lets not pretend that Tebow is the only QB that "has shown the ability to be clutch", Ortonary had zero before he came to Denver and had several in his 2 seasons as Broncos starter, Cutler had numerous 4th qtr/OT wins.

Again with the poetic nonsense, Tebow fans glamorize the few strengths he has as if he's the only QB who has those strengths.......

Canmore
02-28-2012, 01:05 AM
No, my friend, he has earned the right to start another preseason. That is
where EFX stands, and they made that clear. He will have to earn the
right to start the season during that preseason . . .

-----

Yes, John has made that clear. I'm hoping that Tebow makes it out of camp as the starter. I personally want to see more. There is so much room for growth with this one and the Force is strong with this one. I want to see the results with a off season and training camp.

nevcraw
02-28-2012, 01:06 AM
I see. I'm the one with the "martyr bit," while you take everything I say
personally. :lol: Okay. Whatever.

Anyway, I hope Tebow is the QB for the next 12 years if he is the best
man for the job, and only if he is the best man for the job. If someone
comes along who can upgrade the position, then I want that someone in
there. Because I'm a Broncos fan. I don't want to keep a lesser QB (if he
is that) around because I'm tired of change. I want the best player there.
I would think a long-time fan of the team such as you would want that,
too. That is all.

-----
huh?? I took it personally?? come on top you are silly --- you always cry foul after you get your feelings hurt with opposing views. it's actually hilarious to watch unfold..
running players out of town after 16 games with more wins than losses and a playoff win is change for change sake. I want to develop a player who already as the intangibles not found in many if any.. I hope he continues to grow and wins over the doubters who will only settle for the second coming of elway. pretty ironic shit if you ask me.. meanwhile I too ant a winning team and chance at the playoffs and team that believes it could win any game and plays for each other... sounds like the team they are building with TT at the helm.

Simple Jaded
02-28-2012, 01:09 AM
One of them is a petulant child who's still trying to learn how to be a man the other breaks rocks and inspires his teammates to be better than they are. i choose Tebow and truth be told I'm not a bears fan.. I root for the broncos.

Breaks rocks? This isn't a ****** Disney movie.

Aren't you worried about rotting your teeth out with this candy-coated bullshit?.......

nevcraw
02-28-2012, 01:10 AM
I am. But to closet fanbois, it might not appear that way . . .

-----

seriously -- hoping another player takes his job cannot be reinterpreted into you are rooting for him..

topscribe
02-28-2012, 01:12 AM
huh?? I took it personally?? come on top you are silly --- you always cry foul after you get your feelings hurt with opposing views. it's actually hilarious to watch unfold..
running players out of town after 16 games with more wins than losses and a playoff win is change for change sake. I want to develop a player who already as the intangibles not found in many if any.. I hope he continues to grow and wins over the doubters who will only settle for the second coming of elway. pretty ironic shit if you ask me.. meanwhile I too ant a winning team and chance at the playoffs and team that believes it could win any game and plays for each other... sounds like the team they are building with TT at the helm.

Okay, this has gone far enough. I'm shutting down this particular conversation.
I don't want any adolescent back-and-forth ad hominem attacks. That will get
neither of us anywhere.

Have a nice evening. :)

-----

topscribe
02-28-2012, 01:14 AM
seriously -- hoping another player takes his job cannot be reinterpreted into you are rooting for him..

If another player proves to be a better player, I want that other player to
take his job. That goes for any position on the team. That is being a fan
of the team. I don't know how you could possibly think different if you are
really a fan of the team.

Anyway, as I said, I'm through with this specific conversation. I'll let you
have the last word if you want it. That is all.

-----

nevcraw
02-28-2012, 01:16 AM
Breaks rocks? This isn't a ****** Disney movie.

Aren't you worried about rotting your teeth out with this candy-coated bullshit?.......

it's a Euphemism.. no disney movie but I just witnessed the best bronco season with a complete turnaround since 05 and most exciting season since 97/98. lot's to complain about I know.. poor us.. wish we had cutler still..
spoiled little broncos fans who never know how good they have it..

topscribe
02-28-2012, 01:19 AM
Yes, John has made that clear. I'm hoping that Tebow makes it out of camp as the starter. I personally want to see more. There is so much room for growth with this one and the Force is strong with this one. I want to see the results with a off season and training camp.

It concerns me that you capitalized "Force."

Anyway, I would like to see Tebow come into the season as the starter after
he has earned it through some tough competition during the preseason. At the
very least, that will provide the Broncos with a quality starter and backup.

-----

Simple Jaded
02-28-2012, 01:22 AM
As for the "inspires teammates" bullshit, l hear the lockerroom isn't the fairy tale ya'll wanna believe it is. If anything Tebow has inspired his teammates due to the fact that they know they have no chance of winning unless they score on defense, create TO's in scoring position or hold the opponent to 7 points.

This isn't a Disney movie, Tebow's ineptitude has been a far bigger factor than his ability inspire confidence in other players.......

Simple Jaded
02-28-2012, 01:33 AM
it's a Euphemism.. no disney movie but I just witnessed the best bronco season with a complete turnaround since 05 and most exciting season since 97/98. lot's to complain about I know.. poor us.. wish we had cutler still..
spoiled little broncos fans who never know how good they have it..

Euphemism, bullshit, potato, patato. I sincerely hope EFX doesn't pin the franchise hopes on mythical accomplishments of an unbalanced 9-9 team.......

Canmore
02-28-2012, 01:35 AM
It concerns me that you capitalized "Force."

Anyway, I would like to see Tebow come into the season as the starter after
he has earned it through some tough competition during the preseason. At the
very least, that will provide the Broncos with a quality starter and backup.

-----

No matter how ugly it looked for three quarters and then some, Tebow manufactured wins. With the game on the line, Tebow played like a champion. Some call it IT, I said the Force mostly because of my avy but Tebow showed a way of winning, especially when the chips were down that I haven't seen in a while.

I watch to enjoy the Broncos and especially like winning. Something that we long time fans are accustomed too. I want to see if he is the real deal. I know what EFX said. I hope Tim is the starter in 2012. If his mechanics can ever catch up to his intangibles we have a legitimate franchise quarterback. Will it happen? I don't know but I feel it would be extremely short sighted to give up on him without one more season.

WARHORSE
02-28-2012, 06:07 AM
Basically King is saying they will take a QB in round two because theres no way we take one in round one.

But in round two its possible.


I like Russell Wilson in round 4 or 5 if we want a signal caller that can run the read option along with TT.



We have already determined that we can win with Tebow under center so its not like the FO is trying to focus on that when we can help other areas.

Bring in competition to be sure at the QB position.

claymore
02-28-2012, 08:16 AM
No matter how ugly it looked for three quarters and then some, Tebow manufactured wins. With the game on the line, Tebow played like a champion. Some call it IT, I said the Force mostly because of my avy but Tebow showed a way of winning, especially when the chips were down that I haven't seen in a while.

I watch to enjoy the Broncos and especially like winning. Something that we long time fans are accustomed too. I want to see if he is the real deal. I know what EFX said. I hope Tim is the starter in 2012. If his mechanics can ever catch up to his intangibles we have a legitimate franchise quarterback. Will it happen? I don't know but I feel it would be extremely short sighted to give up on him without one more season.

I call it luck. Orton had the "it", the magic, and all he did was win... Just like Tebow.

The fact is, winning in the last few seconds of the 4th qtr against backup second rate QB's because of a fluke stripped ball, or an onside kick, or 20 yard scamper, or a pick six... Isnt sustainable. It isnt something you can count on.

60% completion rates, Low turnover rates, High 3rd down percentages are stuff you can count on.

Tebow will never, ever be a successful QB in this league unless he can address all those things and more.

BroncoNut
02-28-2012, 08:54 AM
I don't see the Jets getting after Trent Richardson

TXBRONC
02-28-2012, 09:39 AM
I was be surprised if it was someone in the first 2 rounds but not after.

I agree it's highly unlikely that they take a quarterback in the first round. However imo the second round on down could possibly be in play.

TXBRONC
02-28-2012, 09:48 AM
I call it luck. Orton had the "it", the magic, and all he did was win... Just like Tebow.

The fact is, winning in the last few seconds of the 4th qtr against backup second rate QB's because of a fluke stripped ball, or an onside kick, or 20 yard scamper, or a pick six... Isnt sustainable. It isnt something you can count on.

60% completion rates, Low turnover rates, High 3rd down percentages are stuff you can count on.

Tebow will never, ever be a successful QB in this league unless he can address all those things and more.

Really all Orton did was win? Then why did he get replaced?

12 wins in two and quarter seasons is just winning? Half of that came in the first six games of '09. It's a stretch to say all he did was win games.

SOCALORADO.
02-28-2012, 09:52 AM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/355/907/124410783_crop_650x440.jpg?1316029993

Thnikkaman
02-28-2012, 09:55 AM
Peter King has a crystal ball that may or may not work.

News at 11.

claymore
02-28-2012, 09:58 AM
Really all Orton did was win? Then why did he get replaced?

12 wins in two and quarter seasons is just winning? Half of that came in the first six games of '09. It's a stretch to say all he did was win games.

If you look back, thats what people said about Orton. "A win is a win, who cares if its ugly", "all he does is win"... etc...

If you look at his first 6 wins with the Broncos in 09, they were accomplished in much the same as Tebows 7 wins last year.

Luck, ball bounces, mysterious happenings... Stuff that cannot be factored into a game plan.

Bottom line, it wasnt the skill of the QB that propelled the team to the win.

TXBRONC
02-28-2012, 10:02 AM
Peter King has a crystal ball that may or may not work.

News at 11.

It's a possibility but there are a lot things are possible. IIRC EFX didn't come to a consensus about taking Miller until the last day so leading up to the draft.

SOCALORADO.
02-28-2012, 10:04 AM
http://www.statepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/10.14-Osweiler.jpg

Chef Zambini
02-28-2012, 10:17 AM
Seems like he is trying to make an obvious choice just like last time.

Last time we had just traded Cutler so to say we would grab a QB in first 2 rounds was kinda an easy pick to make.

This time most people believe Tebow is a bad QB, so again safe pick to make.

I will personally be very pissed if we do. I believe we have plenty of other needs and would rather give a former first round pick a full offseason as the starter to see if he can develop into the guy before throwing that pick away and grabbing his replacement.are you refering to QUINN a former first round pick?
or maybe we aquire jamarcus russel #1 draft pick over all? let these guys have a year just because they were FRDpicks?
it does NOT matter at this point WHERE we drafted TT! he is either capable of getting the job done or not!
I think the EFX is too reasonable and rational to think that TT can become a prototypical NFL QB !
so if they get a shot at a QB they bdo believe in in the first 2 rounds they WIL take that shot!
However, i also believe that if they can sign a VET QB that they believe in BEFORE the draft, they will allow themselves to wait until LATER rounds 9kellen moore) to address the QB situation.

Chef Zambini
02-28-2012, 10:25 AM
I don't see the Jets getting after Trent RichardsonI see the JETS going after MANNING or the green bay back-up !
the redskins and the jets will be the contenders for manning and flynn, the GB QB !
unless MANNING has a particular place in mind, ( AZ) then he will go to the highest bidder, my guess the 'skins.
flynn will be the consolation prize, and RG III will go #2 behind luck.
that #2 spot will also garner alot of attention, dolphins, browns, us, heck, RGIIi had 12 interviews at the combine, and he may see even more at his pro day !

Chef Zambini
02-28-2012, 10:26 AM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/355/907/124410783_crop_650x440.jpg?1316029993happy looking bunch.

BroncoStud
02-28-2012, 10:40 AM
Can't wait until the draft... The offseason sucks.

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 10:47 AM
this is all silly.

where's wayninja when you need him.

Tebow will be starter for the up-coming season like it or not. Depending on how the offense is ran WE will all have our questions answered.

But if for a second you believe that Tebow will be benched in TC you are out of your SKULL. The fans and the pressure to start Tebow will buckle any QB that is not named Tebow under center. I don't see how they can justify benching a QB who took the team to the NFL equivalent of the ELITE 8. Sorry I don't see that happening.

And let's say they do draft that kid SOcal has been putting pictures up and manages to "beat out" Tebow for the spot. If he struggles in the first couple of games what do you expect the reaction to be? Will all you Tebow detractors raise hell to replace him as well. Does he get a chance to F' up? Should we draft another the next year?

If your looking for skill set from a QB i'm sure there are some you can find in rounds 4 5 6. Nothing will justify picking one in the second.

vandammage13
02-28-2012, 11:05 AM
Denver has many, many needs and QB is one of them.......

Denver indeed has many needs...QB is one of them, but the least of them.

I think if Tebow flops this year, with as tough as our schedule looks to be, we would be better served trying to get a QB with a higher pick next year with guys like Barkley and Landry Jones being available.

I would hate to see us gamble another pick on a mid-tier prospect, hoping that he becomes a Franchise QB.

Northman
02-28-2012, 11:12 AM
I don't see how they can justify benching a QB who took the team to the NFL equivalent of the ELITE 8. Sorry I don't see that happening.



While i dont see it happening either Trent Dilfer did get let go a year he won a Super Bowl. :lol:

vandammage13
02-28-2012, 11:32 AM
Euphemism, bullshit, potato, patato. I sincerely hope EFX doesn't pin the franchise hopes on mythical accomplishments of an unbalanced 9-9 team.......

8-5 with Tebow...just sayin...

topscribe
02-28-2012, 11:39 AM
this is all silly.

where's wayninja when you need him.

Tebow will be starter for the up-coming season like it or not. Depending on how the offense is ran WE will all have our questions answered.

But if for a second you believe that Tebow will be benched in TC you are out of your SKULL. The fans and the pressure to start Tebow will buckle any QB that is not named Tebow under center. I don't see how they can justify benching a QB who took the team to the NFL equivalent of the ELITE 8. Sorry I don't see that happening.

And let's say they do draft that kid SOcal has been putting pictures up and manages to "beat out" Tebow for the spot. If he struggles in the first couple of games what do you expect the reaction to be? Will all you Tebow detractors raise hell to replace him as well. Does he get a chance to F' up? Should we draft another the next year?

If your looking for skill set from a QB i'm sure there are some you can find in rounds 4 5 6. Nothing will justify picking one in the second.

It's sad when a person becomes such a fan of a player that he's afraid
the organization will bring in someone who may be able to beat him out.
Well, it looks as if the Tebow fans may have to live with it because EFX
has said that is what they want. And they're right.

-----

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 11:41 AM
While i dont see it happening either Trent Dilfer did get let go a year he won a Super Bowl. :lol:

and how did that turn out for Brian Billick? IMO the reason he replaced Dilfer was because Billick was a offensive coach. It killed him knowing it was his defense winning those games. Remember he was the OC with the Vikings in 98 when they put up a ton of points. He wanted some of that action. Sucks for him it blew up in his face.

Northman
02-28-2012, 11:49 AM
and how did that turn out for Brian Billick? IMO the reason he replaced Dilfer was because Billick was a offensive coach. It killed him knowing it was his defense winning those games. Remember he was the OC with the Vikings in 98 when they put up a ton of points. He wanted some of that action. Sucks for him it blew up in his face.

Exactly. But dont try to presume that it was Dilfer who won them games. The point i was trying to make was that no QB is safe regardless of what they did the year before. While Billick indeed wanted a better QB he went fishing in the wrong pond but his theory wasnt wrong. Dilfer went to SF after that and bombed so the call wasnt wrong, just the replacement. So basically, if Tebow sucks in training camp and plays terribly early in the season i could see him getting benched. Happens all the time when trying to find "the" guy. My guess is if Tebow wants to keep his job he's going to have to keep winning. Losing is what eventually got Plummer and Orton benched.

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 11:50 AM
It's sad when a person becomes such a fan of a player that he's afraid
the organization will bring in someone who may be able to beat him out.
Well, it looks as if the Tebow fans may have to live with it because EFX
has said that is what they want. And they're right.

-----

no TOP i'm a fan of the Broncos. I especially like a Broncos team that WINS and has the chance to win when the game is close. They can bring whoever EFX deems fit to play the QB. All i'm saying is a 2nd round pick is unjustifiable to be used on a QB when there are far greater needs on the TEAM.

i'm positive Tebow will be the starter come the first game of the season. He will be given NO room to fail by EFX.

But if you think for a moment that a rookie QB can come to Denver beat out Tebow. And if he struggles in the first 4 games there won't be nobody to point the finger at. You are mistaken. The pressure will almost be the equivalent of what Tebow is subjected to every sunday. His game will be dissected and inspected thoroughly. Can you imagine the hoopla if our "new" rookie or FA QB. Fails to lead the team down the field to get into field goal range? Talk about a circus.

SOCALORADO.
02-28-2012, 11:52 AM
this is all silly.

where's wayninja when you need him.

Tebow will be starter for the up-coming season like it or not. Depending on how the offense is ran WE will all have our questions answered.

But if for a second you believe that Tebow will be benched in TC you are out of your SKULL. The fans and the pressure to start Tebow will buckle any QB that is not named Tebow under center. I don't see how they can justify benching a QB who took the team to the NFL equivalent of the ELITE 8. Sorry I don't see that happening.

And let's say they do draft that kid SOcal has been putting pictures up and manages to "beat out" Tebow for the spot. If he struggles in the first couple of games what do you expect the reaction to be? Will all you Tebow detractors raise hell to replace him as well. Does he get a chance to F' up? Should we draft another the next year?

If your looking for skill set from a QB i'm sure there are some you can find in rounds 4 5 6. Nothing will justify picking one in the second.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/517/090/131558462_crop_650x440.jpg?1325811570

topscribe
02-28-2012, 11:53 AM
Exactly. But dont try to presume that it was Dilfer who won them games. The point i was trying to make was that no QB is safe regardless of what they did the year before. While Billick indeed wanted a better QB he went fishing in the wrong pond but his theory wasnt wrong. Dilfer went to SF after that and bombed so the call wasnt wrong, just the replacement. So basically, if Tebow sucks in training camp and plays terribly early in the season i could see him getting benched. Happens all the time when trying to find "the" guy. My guess is if Tebow wants to keep his job he's going to have to keep winning. Losing is what eventually got Plummer and Orton benched.

Well, Orton . . . the Broncos were 7-4 when Plummer was benched.

Anyway, it seems that EFX is bent on not making the same mistake Billick
made, i.e., waiting until after the fact. They seem determined to nip the
problems in the bud, and I like that about them.

-----

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 11:53 AM
Exactly. But dont try to presume that it was Dilfer who won them games. The point i was trying to make was that no QB is safe regardless of what they did the year before. While Billick indeed wanted a better QB he went fishing in the wrong pond but his theory wasnt wrong. Dilfer went to SF after that and bombed so the call wasnt wrong, just the replacement. So basically, if Tebow sucks in training camp and plays terribly early in the season i could see him getting benched. Happens all the time when trying to find "the" guy. My guess is if Tebow wants to keep his job he's going to have to keep winning. Losing is what eventually got Plummer and Orton benched.

completely agree North.

Tebow is on a short leash. HE was not the "guy" Elway or FOX wanted for the QB spot. As the season rolled along that changed IMO. But still Tebow will have to FAIL to be replaced here in Denver. What happened last TC will not be repeated IMO.

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 11:55 AM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/517/090/131558462_crop_650x440.jpg?1325811570

off topic but isn't this the kid that sent back the FG or Punt team on a 4th down? ONLY to throw a interception? Can anyone confirm this?

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 11:56 AM
the Broncos were 7-4 when Plummer was benched.


-----
that's a whole other CAN OF WORMS.

topscribe
02-28-2012, 11:58 AM
no TOP i'm a fan of the Broncos. I especially like a Broncos team that WINS and has the chance to win when the game is close. They can bring whoever EFX deems fit to play the QB. All i'm saying is a 2nd round pick is unjustifiable to be used on a QB when there are far greater needs on the TEAM.

i'm positive Tebow will be the starter come the first game of the season. He will be given NO room to fail by EFX.

But if you think for a moment that a rookie QB can come to Denver beat out Tebow. And if he struggles in the first 4 games there won't be nobody to point the finger at. You are mistaken. The pressure will almost be the equivalent of what Tebow is subjected to every sunday. His game will be dissected and inspected thoroughly. Can you imagine the hoopla if our "new" rookie or FA QB. Fails to lead the team down the field to get into field goal range? Talk about a circus.

The only way Tebow can be given no room to fail is if someone is there
who can pick up the torch. A designated backup is not good enough to
do that. What EFX want is someone to come in and cast doubt as to who
is actually going to be the backup. The result will be a better starter and
an excellent backup, regardless of who that will be in each respecive
position . . .

P.S. I don't doubt that you are a Broncos fan. That is not what I meant.

-----

SOCALORADO.
02-28-2012, 12:00 PM
completely agree North.

Tebow is on a short leash. HE was not the "guy" Elway or FOX wanted for the QB spot. As the season rolled along that changed IMO. But still Tebow will have to FAIL to be replaced here in Denver. What happened last TC will not be repeated IMO.

No shit sherlock. TT will start game 1. Big deal. He will be given every chance to shine. A vet will back him up, and DEN will draft an Osweiller or a Foles as a developmental QB they can groom to either take over if TT does blow eventually, or! if TT ends up becoming everything we hope he can be, they can use the rookie QB as an eventual barganiing chip just like Cassell, Kolb, Flynn, etc,etc.
Dude, this happens all the time, and its really no big deal, except to the floridian-teboites who seem to have developed quite an inferiority complex about having any other talented QBs on the roster.

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 12:02 PM
The only way Tebow can be given no room to fail is if someone is there
who can pick up the torch. A designated backup is not good enough to
do that. What EFX want is someone to come in and cast doubt as to who
is actually going to be the backup. The result will be a better starter and
an excellent backup, regardless of who that will be in each respecive
position . . .

P.S. I don't doubt that you are a Broncos fan. That is not what I meant.

-----

I for the most part believe EFX will draft a late round QB in the prototypical mold. Sign a mobile FA Q.B, maybe until some roster cuts in TC. You will see that FA be the back-up and the rookie be the 3rd string.

SOCALORADO.
02-28-2012, 12:02 PM
The only way Tebow can be given no room to fail is if someone is there
who can pick up the torch. A designated backup is not good enough to
do that. What EFX want is someone to come in and cast doubt as to who
is actually going to be the backup. The result will be a better starter and
an excellent backup, regardless of who that will be in each respecive
position . . .

P.S. I don't doubt that you are a Broncos fan. That is not what I meant.

-----

Exactly. Having Osweiller on the team, makes TT better!

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 12:07 PM
No shit sherlock. TT will start game 1. Big deal. He will be given every chance to shine. A vet will back him up, and DEN will draft an Osweiller or a Foles as a developmental QB they can groom to either take over if TT does blow eventually, or! if TT ends up becoming everything we hope he can be, they can use the rookie QB as an eventual barganiing chip just like Cassell, Kolb, Flynn, etc,etc.
Dude, this happens all the time, and its really no big deal, except to the floridian-teboites who seem to have developed quite an inferiority complex about having any other talented QBs on the roster.

OK....

the back and forth here between some of the posters was about open competition going into TC. That the "better" QB would be starting come the 1st game.

I agree with your comment except the part of drafting the two young QB's because form what I hear they will be early round selections. Denver has bigger holes to fill than that IMO. I'm sure they can find a traditional QB in the later rounds and mold him the same way you stated.

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 12:12 PM
Exactly. Having Osweiller on the team, makes TT better!

instead of saying. Adding a solid TE makes Tebow better.

Instead of saying adding a speed back to complement Willis makes Tebow better.

You want to add an early round rookie QB to make him better?? How is that??

This is about the TEAM isn't IT?

EastCoastBronco
02-28-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm hoping like hell we go after interior D-Line and Safeties...
Pressure up the middle makes it all go...
Just look at the Giants...

SOCALORADO.
02-28-2012, 12:18 PM
OK....

the back and forth here between some of the posters was about open competition going into TC. That the "better" QB would be starting come the 1st game.

I agree with your comment except the part of drafting the two young QB's because form what I hear they will be early round selections. Denver has bigger holes to fill than that IMO. I'm sure they can find a traditional QB in the later rounds and mold him the same way you stated.

No, dude. There is no more important position not only in football, but in all of sports than the QB position. Period.
DEN has as big a question mark at QB as they do at DT.
I like TT and want him to succeed, however there are issues there that must be addressed. Just like Phil addressed McNabbs health issues by drafting Kolb in the 2nd. Its a buisness decision based on the success of the team.
And gee, look what they got for Kolb! HIGHWAY ROBBERY. THEY RAPED ARI!!!
If a team is going after a QB to be the possible starter, you dont look for him in the 6th round. You get the guy you want, and you realize that down the road it will pay off for the team in one way or the other.
I think theres alot of folks who just dont want TT to have these glaring flaws still. The FO is closely looking at Weeden and Osweiller for a reason.
In no way is getting a Osweiller and grooming him a waste of a pick. it only gets you more down the road, one way or the other.

SOCALORADO.
02-28-2012, 12:22 PM
instead of saying. Adding a solid TE makes Tebow better.

Instead of saying adding a speed back to complement Willis makes Tebow better.

You want to add an early round rookie QB to make him better?? How is that??

This is about the TEAM isn't IT?

By adding Osweiller it makes TT work harder.
Challenges TT to be even better.

And if TT does become the QB of the franchise, DEN still has a really solid QB they can parlay into draft picks or players down the road.
Just like NE did with Cassell, just like PHIL did with Kolb, just like GB will do with Flynn.

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 12:24 PM
No, dude. There is no more important position not only in football, but in all of sports than the QB position. Period.
DEN has as big a question mark at QB as they do at DT.
I like TT and want him to succeed, however there are issues there that must be addressed. Just like Phil addressed McNabbs health issues by drafting Kolb in the 2nd. Its a buisness decision based on the success of the team.
And gee, look what they got for Kolb! HIGHWAY ROBBERY. THEY RAPED ARI!!!
If a team is going after a QB to be the possible starter, you dont look for him in the 6th round. You get the guy you want, and you realize that down the road it will pay off for the team in one way or the other.
I think theres alot of folks who just dont want TT to have these glaring flaws still. The FO is closely looking at Weeden and Osweiller for a reason.
In no way is getting a Osweiller and grooming him a waste of a pick. it only gets you more down the road, one way or the other.

The reason they where able to deal KOLB was completely different. The Eagles must have known something was up with McNabb look how he turned out in WAS and Minny. Plus they had a QB by the name of VICK their. Arizona did get suckered NO DOUBT. But who is to say those rookie QB's work out? Many tought Jimmy Clausen was as ready as a rookie could be to be a Pro QB. How did that turn out.

What your saying is to take a chance and there is some smarts in that. But when you have other holes why not patch them up and then take a chance.

TheReverend
02-28-2012, 12:25 PM
Exactly. Having Osweiller on the team, makes TT better!

....not as much as someone like Cordy Glenn

Mike
02-28-2012, 12:31 PM
Bronco Nation has gone full retard.

TXBRONC
02-28-2012, 12:32 PM
no TOP i'm a fan of the Broncos. I especially like a Broncos team that WINS and has the chance to win when the game is close. They can bring whoever EFX deems fit to play the QB. All i'm saying is a 2nd round pick is unjustifiable to be used on a QB when there are far greater needs on the TEAM.

i'm positive Tebow will be the starter come the first game of the season. He will be given NO room to fail by EFX.

But if you think for a moment that a rookie QB can come to Denver beat out Tebow. And if he struggles in the first 4 games there won't be nobody to point the finger at. You are mistaken. The pressure will almost be the equivalent of what Tebow is subjected to every sunday. His game will be dissected and inspected thoroughly. Can you imagine the hoopla if our "new" rookie or FA QB. Fails to lead the team down the field to get into field goal range? Talk about a circus.


Yes it is justifiable. Their draft philosophy is to take the best available player regardless of position. If Tebow was firmly established as the franchise quarterback that could change things somewhat but not completely.

Imo it's inconsistent to say we're all for taking the best available player unless it's quarterback. If EFX feel that the best available player is a quarterback regardless of round they should take that guy. A first or second round quarterback would get a chance to compete but if it's quarterback taken any round after the second round is probably going to need more development.

There's no sense to worked up about it (that's probably not even the right word) because it's still Tebow's job to lose.

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 12:32 PM
By adding Osweiller it makes TT work harder.
Challenges TT to be even better.

And if TT does become the QB of the franchise, DEN still has a really solid QB they can parlay into draft picks or players down the road.
Just like NE did with Cassell, just like PHIL did with Kolb, just like GB will do with Flynn.

what about how.

CAR did with Clausen, CLE did with McCoy, MIA did with Hanne...

for every success there are tons of screw ups.

Ok I agree by adding a QB will push Tebow OK I get that.

But by adding a solid TE it will give him a nice security blanket for checkdowns. By adding a speed back like sproles will give the offense an instant explosion. That WILL help Tebow more than bringing in a early round rookie QB

topscribe
02-28-2012, 12:35 PM
I'm hoping like hell we go after interior D-Line and Safeties...
Pressure up the middle makes it all go...
Just look at the Giants...

Yes, look at the Giants . . . and Manning . . .

-----

TXBRONC
02-28-2012, 12:48 PM
what about how.

CAR did with Clausen, CLE did with McCoy, MIA did with Hanne...

for every success there are tons of screw ups.

Ok I agree by adding a QB will push Tebow OK I get that.

But by adding a solid TE it will give him a nice security blanket for checkdowns. By adding a speed back like sproles will give the offense an instant explosion. That WILL help Tebow more than bringing in a early round rookie QB

You can look at any team at any position and can find a players that haven't succeeded.

I suggest you look at what McCoy and Henne did without the benefit of a solid defense.

catfish
02-28-2012, 02:10 PM
Tebow's completion percentage is a function of playcalling? I'm getting ****** headache.......

Not Tebow's %, all completion% is a product of the play selection, which is often a product of the defense. Elway addressed it in one of his pressers. Something along the lines of if a team plays zone you should be around60% but if they are playing press man you stretch the field and 50% is about the best you can hope for...I can't remember the exact quote

topscribe
02-28-2012, 02:19 PM
Not Tebow's %, all completion% is a product of the play selection, which is often a product of the defense. Elway addressed it in one of his pressers. Something along the lines of if a team plays zone you should be around60% but if they are playing press man you stretch the field and 50% is about the best you can hope for...I can't remember the exact quote

Well, not all is from play selection.

Throwing the ball everwhere except at a receiver has its effect . . . :listen:

-----

catfish
02-28-2012, 02:30 PM
Well, not all is from play selection.

Throwing the ball everwhere except at a receiver has its effect . . . :listen:

-----

i agree with that, and again was simply trying to make the point that completion % is not the best metric to measure QB play, not excusing anything

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 03:41 PM
You can look at any team at any position and can find a players that haven't succeeded.

I suggest you look at what McCoy and Henne did without the benefit of a solid defense.

yeah I know that. But you obviously didn't read to the comment that I was responding to. Let me give you a quick run down. Socal said to draft Osweiller and if Tebow turns out to be a franchise QB we can then ship the rookie QB for draft picks. My comment was to show him how many early round selections that have not worked out. So to assume just because a QB get's drafted in the early round they will be successful is not true. It's a game of chance. He might be good He might not. With other holes in the team WE can't take that chance.

And I suggest you see what Tebow did with a 1-4 team.

SOCALORADO.
02-28-2012, 03:53 PM
yeah I know that. But you obviously didn't read to the comment that I was responding to. Let me give you a quick run down. Socal said to draft Osweiller and if Tebow turns out to be a franchise QB we can then ship the rookie QB for draft picks. My comment was to show him how many early round selections that have not worked out. So to assume just because a QB get's drafted in the early round they will be successful is not true. It's a game of chance. He might be good He might not. With other holes in the team WE can't take that chance.

And I suggest you see what Tebow did with a 1-4 team.

And there it is. You keep sucking TTs dong.
It wasnt just TT. It was a really good defense and a really good kicker.
And TT!!
There are still obvious, glaring issues with TT. Thats why the FO is looking so closely at QBs in the draft. Thats why they basically have come out and said that they will draft 1. Obviously you dont agree with what the FO is doing, and feel they shouldnt be looking at QBs.
But they are looking at QBs. And Weeden and Osweiller are the 2 they really have their eye on.
I understandf that TT should get the reins. He already has them.
However to not have a serious plan for if he fails is just plain dumb, and if they think a franchise guy is there in the 2nd round, then they should take him. I personally have no problem whatsoever with DEN drafting Osweiller.
its not a wasted pick IMHO.

I continue to get the sense from alot of posts that many here are afraid that TT might be shown up in camp and lose his job if a rookie QB is drafted.
And that doesnt make sense to me.

topscribe
02-28-2012, 03:57 PM
And I suggest you see what Tebow did with a 1-4 team.

Um . . . like, closed out his last five games at 1-4?

-----

catfish
02-28-2012, 03:59 PM
And there it is. You keep sucking TTs dong.
It wasnt just TT. It was a really good defense and a really good kicker.
And TT!!
There are still obvious, glaring issues with TT. Thats why the FO is looking so closely at QBs in the draft. Thats why they basically have come out and said that they will draft 1. Obviously you dont agree with what the FO is doing, and feel they shouldnt be looking at QBs.
But they are looking at QBs. And Weeden and Osweiller are the 2 they really have their eye on.
I understandf that TT should get the reins. He already has them.
However to not have a serious plan for if he fails is just plain dumb, and if they think a franchise guy is there in the 2nd round, then they should take him. I personally have no problem whatsoever with DEN drafting Osweiller.
its not a wasted pick IMHO.

I continue to get the sense from alot of posts that many here are afraid that TT might be shown up in camp and lose his job if a rookie QB is drafted.
And that doesnt make sense to me.

I think border and the rest of us are more concerned that they will use a high pick to get a QB that WON'T beat out Tebow. If the FO feels they can get a guy in round 1-3 that will beat out Tebow great do it, but don't use a high draft pick on a guy who will sit just so you can say you picked a QB. Better off taking Barkley next year IMO

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 04:00 PM
Um . . . like, closed out his last five games at 1-4?

-----

Even tough that last 1 game was in the playoffs against the best defense in the NFL. But it was a FLUKE right? He broke records but that will never happen again right? And that whole 6 game winning streak during the season never happened right?

He took over a 1-4 team and took them to the playoffs TOP I don't see how people can dismiss that.

claymore
02-28-2012, 04:04 PM
Even tough that last 1 game was in the playoffs against the best defense in the NFL. But it was a FLUKE right? He broke records but that will never happen again right? And that whole 6 game winning streak during the season never happened right?

He took over a 1-4 team and took them to the playoffs TOP I don't see how people can dismiss that.

Six game win streaks dont mean shit if they are reliant on fluke plays.

topscribe
02-28-2012, 04:05 PM
I think border and the rest of us are more concerned that they will use a high pick to get a QB that WON'T beat out Tebow. If the FO feels they can get a guy in round 1-3 that will beat out Tebow great do it, but don't use a high draft pick on a guy who will sit just so you can say you picked a QB. Better off taking Barkley next year IMO

If they draft a second rounder, how could that be a losing situation
(except in the case of "bust," which could happen in any round)? So a
terrific battle develops, and Tebow prevails. Or the draftee prevails.
Would that not leave us with a pretty dang good backup, either way?

And I'm not in the least interested in Barkley next year because that will
mean the Broncos absolutely tanked the season -- a prospect for which I
have no use . . .

-----

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 04:06 PM
And there it is. You keep sucking TTs dong.
It wasnt just TT. It was a really good defense and a really good kicker.
And TT!!
There are still obvious, glaring issues with TT. Thats why the FO is looking so closely at QBs in the draft. Thats why they basically have come out and said that they will draft 1. Obviously you dont agree with what the FO is doing, and feel they shouldnt be looking at QBs.
But they are looking at QBs. And Weeden and Osweiller are the 2 they really have their eye on.
I understandf that TT should get the reins. He already has them.
However to not have a serious plan for if he fails is just plain dumb, and if they think a franchise guy is there in the 2nd round, then they should take him. I personally have no problem whatsoever with DEN drafting Osweiller.
its not a wasted pick IMHO.

I continue to get the sense from alot of posts that many here are afraid that TT might be shown up in camp and lose his job if a rookie QB is drafted.
And that doesnt make sense to me.

And it looks like you took his DONG in the wrong hole for too long. What's your deal? The guy "Tebow" was under center and took the Broncos to the playoffs by the games they won not lost.

Bring in whoever they want to bring in. My whole thing is what happened last year in TC won't happen again. BET THAT. A second round pick on a QB will be a waste because believe it or not this Broncos team was 1 of the final 8 teams remaining in the NFL. And they did it with such a "horrible QB". Fix other holes first then go ahead and draft little project. WE are close to building a very very solid defense. That 2nd round pick, call me crazy would go a long way to make that happen sooner don't you agree??

BroncoStud
02-28-2012, 04:07 PM
It wasn't all fluke plays Clay, not even close. Tebow played a very legit and solid game against the Vikings, made plays and responded time and time again while the defense let Christian Ponder bend them over and insert.

Tebow made a great play against the JETS to win the game.

Tebow played turnover-free football for much of the winning streak - that isn't fluky. It's a lot more than I expected from a project QB in his first season starting.

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 04:08 PM
Six game win streaks dont mean shit if they are reliant on fluke plays.

yeah CLAY. each game had a fluke play. The hand of God came down and helped Tebow on each one. OK your right:coffee:

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 04:09 PM
It wasn't all fluke plays Clay, not even close. Tebow played a very legit and solid game against the Vikings, made plays and responded time and time again while the defense let Christian Ponder bend them over and insert.

Tebow made a great play against the JETS to win the game.

Tebow played turnover-free football for much of the winning streak - that isn't fluky. It's a lot more than I expected from a project QB in his first season starting.

We WIN and they make excuses for winning I don't get it. :confused: Never WILL.

BroncoStud
02-28-2012, 04:16 PM
We WIN and they make excuses for winning I don't get it. :confused: Never WILL.

Clay missed Cutler (I do as well to an extent)

TOP misses Orton

It's an emotional thing. Last year HAPPENED. Just be glad we have a surprisingly good front office, I have faith in them to do what's right.

claymore
02-28-2012, 04:18 PM
yeah CLAY. each game had a fluke play. The hand of God came down and helped Tebow on each one. OK your right:coffee:
Orton did it too. Both QB's suck. Fortunatley for us the Raiders lost so we could back into the playoffs and catch the Steelers sleeping.

It wont happen next year.

topscribe
02-28-2012, 04:18 PM
Even tough that last 1 game was in the playoffs against the best defense in the NFL. But it was a FLUKE right? He broke records but that will never happen again right? And that whole 6 game winning streak during the season never happened right?

He took over a 1-4 team and took them to the playoffs TOP I don't see how people can dismiss that.

That was NOT the best defense in the NFL that the Broncos saw that day.
That was a defense battered with injuries. Moreover, Roethlisberger was so
injured that he was lucky to get the ball past the LOS.

Sorry, but I just can't see Tebow out front leading the charge to the
playoffs. I see some of his plays, yes. But I also see a stingy defense in
their wins. I see the leg of Prater's making a difference. I see three
straight long runs in the final drive of one game and the opposing RB
stepping out of bounds in another. I see D.J. stripping the ball from the QB
in yet another.

So who is responsible for getting the Broncos into the playoffs? I would
say the special teams for the Oakland Raiders. They blocked two straight
field goals in their game against the Chiefs. Had one of them gone through,
the Broncos would have been watching the Chiefs play that game against
the Steelers.

You can keep on insisting that Tebow was the champion of the season,
but that does not seem consistent with the facts, as I see them . . .

-----

claymore
02-28-2012, 04:20 PM
Clay missed Cutler (I do as well to an extent)

TOP misses Orton

It's an emotional thing. Last year HAPPENED. Just be glad we have a surprisingly good front office, I have faith in them to do what's right.

Of course I miss Cutler. He's the 2nd best QB we've ever had.

I have faith in the FO to. I think that they have done a pretty good job managing this Tebow thing. Its the fans that irritate me. They cant see the blindingly obvious facts.

claymore
02-28-2012, 04:23 PM
It wasn't all fluke plays Clay, not even close. Tebow played a very legit and solid game against the Vikings, made plays and responded time and time again while the defense let Christian Ponder bend them over and insert.

Tebow made a great play against the JETS to win the game.

Tebow played turnover-free football for much of the winning streak - that isn't fluky. It's a lot more than I expected from a project QB in his first season starting.

Tebow had 2 good games this year. Minn was one of them. I think Pitt was the other. Keep in mind the defense was the worst pass defense in the league, they had a rookie QB, A. Peterson wasnt in the game, and it still took a last second FG from prater.

Prater is the real unsung hero. THe dude was MONEY.

Northman
02-28-2012, 04:26 PM
Fortunatley for us the Raiders lost so we could back into the playoffs and catch the Steelers sleeping.



And that is what some of us are getting at. Its not about making excuses for winning but looking at those wins and the playoff run objectively. Thats a big difference from being a "hater" or anything of the sort.

Ive seen people bash Andre Goodman on here quite a bit but without him this past season Denver doesnt make the playoffs.

If Marion Barber doesnt have a complete meltdown late in the game with the Bears Denver doesnt make the playoffs.

While its easy to point to the solid and good games Denver played (Raiders 2nd time, Vikings) people forget about the other games where we were less than stellar. Lets also not forget that had Denver just beaten either the Bills or Chiefs to end the season waiting on the Faid to lose would be a non issue.

But...no one wants to talk about that. No one wants to admit that Tebow and the team couldnt step up in crunch time and seal the deal. Sure, they took advantage of that and beat a Pitt team literally limping into the playoffs but hey, what do i know? Im just a hater.

claymore
02-28-2012, 04:36 PM
And that is what some of us are getting at. Its not about making excuses for winning but looking at those wins and the playoff run objectively. Thats a big difference from being a "hater" or anything of the sort.

Ive seen people bash Andre Goodman on here quite a bit but without him this past season Denver doesnt make the playoffs.

If Marion Barber doesnt have a complete meltdown late in the game with the Bears Denver doesnt make the playoffs.

While its easy to point to the solid and good games Denver played (Raiders 2nd time, Vikings) people forget about the other games where we were less than stellar. Lets also not forget that had Denver just beaten either the Bills or Chiefs to end the season waiting on the Faid to lose would be a non issue.

But...no one wants to talk about that. No one wants to admit that Tebow and the team couldnt step up in crunch time and seal the deal. Sure, they took advantage of that and beat a Pitt team literally limping into the playoffs but hey, what do i know? Im just a hater.
The dude went entire qts without completing a pass. He is a less talented Vince young.

topscribe
02-28-2012, 04:46 PM
Of course I miss Cutler. He's the 2nd best QB we've ever had.

I have faith in the FO to. I think that they have done a pretty good job managing this Tebow thing. Its the fans that irritate me. They cant see the blindingly obvious facts.

I miss Cutler big time. I haven't made that a secret. But that has not
clouded my vision on what I see today. But then, that might serve as an
excuse to the Tebow fanbois who do not want to see the truth . . .

-----

claymore
02-28-2012, 04:49 PM
I miss Cutler big time. I haven't made that a secret. But that has not
clouded my vision on what I see today. But then, that might serve as an
excuse to the Tebow fanbois who do not want to see the truth . . .

-----

Yeah, Cutler has nothing to do with this. That ship sailed. I was pretty mad about it when it happened because, for all his faults... QB's that good dont grow on trees.

Now we have a left handed fullback as our QB. :harf:

SOCALORADO.
02-28-2012, 04:59 PM
And it looks like you took his DONG in the wrong hole for too long. What's your deal? The guy "Tebow" was under center and took the Broncos to the playoffs by the games they won not lost.

Bring in whoever they want to bring in. My whole thing is what happened last year in TC won't happen again. BET THAT. A second round pick on a QB will be a waste because believe it or not this Broncos team was 1 of the final 8 teams remaining in the NFL. And they did it with such a "horrible QB". Fix other holes first then go ahead and draft little project. WE are close to building a very very solid defense. That 2nd round pick, call me crazy would go a long way to make that happen sooner don't you agree??

Ive been saying all along that TT will be the starter game 1.
**** dude.
The issue isnt even TC. Its what happens if TT regresses as the season goes on. Then what? Tank and go for Barkley. Yeah right.
Puulease thats a pipe dream. Barkleys going No 1. Hes gonna put up stupid numbers next year and look like the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning.
No, DEN needs a plan at QB. Which is why the FO is looking very closely at Weeden and Osweiller.
I never said TT was horrible, however, you sure seem to think that we all hate him, or dont think he is worthy of starting next year, when in fact i have been saying all along that there would be no controversy in TC, and TT will start game 1 next year.
Look dude, your just going to have to deal with the simple fact that the FO isnt totally sold on TT, and although he will be given the opportunity to start the season as the No 1, the FO will have a plan in place in case he fails.....god forbid! That plan looks like its Weeden or Osweiller.
Accept it, deal with it. Its really not that big of a deal.

BroncoStud
02-28-2012, 05:48 PM
I miss Cutler big time. I haven't made that a secret. But that has not
clouded my vision on what I see today. But then, that might serve as an
excuse to the Tebow fanbois who do not want to see the truth . . .

-----

What is the "TRUTH" TOP?

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 06:02 PM
Ive been saying all along that TT will be the starter game 1.
**** dude.
The issue isnt even TC. Its what happens if TT regresses as the season goes on. Then what? Tank and go for Barkley. Yeah right.
Puulease thats a pipe dream. Barkleys going No 1. Hes gonna put up stupid numbers next year and look like the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning.
No, DEN needs a plan at QB. Which is why the FO is looking very closely at Weeden and Osweiller.
I never said TT was horrible, however, you sure seem to think that we all hate him, or dont think he is worthy of starting next year, when in fact i have been saying all along that there would be no controversy in TC, and TT will start game 1 next year.
Look dude, your just going to have to deal with the simple fact that the FO isnt totally sold on TT, and although he will be given the opportunity to start the season as the No 1, the FO will have a plan in place in case he fails.....god forbid! That plan looks like its Weeden or Osweiller.
Accept it, deal with it. Its really not that big of a deal.

OK

so we agree Tebow will be starting the season at QB. Cool I got that.

The back and forth between us is about selecting a QB in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round.

someone said Osweiler will make Tebow better. Don't you believe a SOLID TE might just help him out a bit more? What about a Darren Sproles type RB would you not believe that would help him? Instead of finding a back-up QB at such an early phase of the draft why not select the other positions the BRONCOS need help in? A late round QB with a prototypical skill set can be found in the later rounds RIGHT?

The defense is on the verge of being really solid. Could they not use that 1st 2nd or 3rd rounder on that side of the field?

Just like I believe our Safety play was barely average this year. We used 2 early round picks on them last year (Moore & Carter). They need to prove they are not the answer before drafting a safety high again. Or justifying drafting another one that high. I have hope both of those young men will turn it around so we won't have to find new ones and start over. You see where i'm coming from?

Npba900
02-28-2012, 06:07 PM
a 2nd round pick is to early on a QB IMO.

Tebow needs to fail first in order to justify such a high pick that can be used on a inside LB or a CB.

i'm sure the Broncos FO can find a QB with a "skill set" in the 5th and 6th round. Right??

When asked to play and execute from the pocket during the 2011 season Tebow did fail horrendously....so in this sense Tebow has already failed.

Detroit, Buffalo, and the Patriots (twice) showed to EFX and the entire NFL, just what a project Tebow truly is.

Tebow started 11 games of which 7 of those 11 games we saw a gimmicky Read Option---of which teams were able to figure out and eventually force Tebow to beat them from the pocket.

In 2011, EFX should have implemented a game plan for all 11 games to make Tebow execute, perform/sink or swim with playing from within the Pocket!!! Thus EFX could have better evaluated Tebow and Tim would have gotten 11 games of experience with playing from within the pocket.

BroncoStud
02-28-2012, 06:08 PM
The dude went entire qts without completing a pass. He is a less talented Vince young.

We went entire quarters without calling a pass as well Clay. The amazing part of last season was that when Tebow HAD to make a play, most of or a lot of the time he did. Dude has no fundamentals, they're terrible. If he doesn't come out in 2012 drastically improved as a passer then I will have no trouble moving on.

But he showed enough last year that at least inspires some hope of potential, at least to me. I've seen hundreds of QBs that could make all the throws, had great footwork, had great mechanics, come and go in the NFL, mostly just go, but Tebow has something most don't, intangibles to make plays at critical times, and I agree with Elway, if his physical fundamentals catch up with that he will be a major problem for NFL defenses for years to come.

Npba900
02-28-2012, 06:17 PM
I think border and the rest of us are more concerned that they will use a high pick to get a QB that WON'T beat out Tebow. If the FO feels they can get a guy in round 1-3 that will beat out Tebow great do it, but don't use a high draft pick on a guy who will sit just so you can say you picked a QB. Better off taking Barkley next year IMO

Who's to say the QB that Elway picks in 2012 won't be ready to take over for Tebow in 2013 or perhaps the last 6 games of 2012!

Point is, Elway knows he needs to draft an insurance policy in the event that T2 can no longer full anyone of the fact that he isn't an NFL QB who can perform at a high level from behind center and from within the pocket.

Remember, the 4 games Tebow was made to play from within the pocket against Buffalo, Detroit, and the 2 games against the Patriots, Tim looked horrendous!

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 06:19 PM
When asked to play and execute from the pocket during the 2011 season Tebow did fail horrendously....so in this sense Tebow has already failed.

Detroit, Buffalo, and the Patriots (twice) showed to EFX and the entire NFL, just what a project Tebow truly is.

The Oak game,what about the second half against the Jets. The Vikings game. And last but not least against the Steelers #1 defense.

But i'm sure those where flukes and the steelers defense certainly was not that good.

catfish
02-28-2012, 06:20 PM
Who's to say the QB that Elway picks in 2012 won't be ready to take over for Tebow in 2013 or perhaps the last 6 games of 2012!

Point is, Elway knows he needs to draft an insurance policy in the event that T2 can no longer full anyone of the fact that he isn't an NFL QB who can perform at a high level from behind center and from within the pocket.

Remember, the 4 games Tebow was made to play from within the pocket against Buffalo, Detroit, and the 2 games against the Patriots, Tim looked horrendous!

Like I said if they pick a guy they feel confident will beat out Tebow great, I just don't see it happening. More likely they will replace a project with a project

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 06:22 PM
So who is responsible for getting the Broncos into the playoffs? I would
say the special teams for the Oakland Raiders.

-----

But TOP I was under the impression that a teams OVERALL RECORD is the reason a team would make the playoffs.

But what do I know

Npba900
02-28-2012, 06:28 PM
Like I said if they pick a guy they feel confident will beat out Tebow great, I just don't see it happening. More likely they will replace a project with a project

My point of contention is, what's wrong with having a QB scenario as the Chargers had with Rivers and Brees! Not bad right?

Chargers made settled on Rivers and sent Brees to the Saints. I'd like to see the same scenario here in Denver. At least I'm thinking long term. Its better Elway drafts a QB now so that if Tebow isn't the answer at least Elway doesn't need to search for a QB 2 or 3 years from now.

topscribe
02-28-2012, 06:40 PM
But TOP I was under the impression that a teams OVERALL RECORD is the reason a team would make the playoffs.

But what do I know
I guess you're right. If this is your rebuttal, then what do you know?

-----

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 06:43 PM
My point of contention is, what's wrong with having a QB scenario as the Chargers had with Rivers and Brees! Not bad right?

Chargers made settled on Rivers and sent Brees to the Saints. I'd like to see the same scenario here in Denver. At least I'm thinking long term. Its better Elway drafts a QB now so that if Tebow isn't the answer at least Elway doesn't need to search for a QB 2 or 3 years from now.

OH my TIMMY. Please WE in no way or form want to be anything like the DOLTS.

Brees was halfway out the door when they traded for/drafted Rivers. It was only then that HE turned it around. And good for him. He has a nice ring while the Bolts are well the Bolts.

RebelRocker
02-28-2012, 06:49 PM
The Oak game,what about the second half against the Jets. The Vikings game. And last but not least against the Steelers #1 defense.

But i'm sure those where flukes and the steelers defense certainly was not that good.

So you're saying Thomas had NOTHING to do with those catches in the Pittsburgh game? You're saying that it was all Tebow on those long completions?

Give me a break, dude. :laugh:

catfish
02-28-2012, 06:51 PM
My point of contention is, what's wrong with having a QB scenario as the Chargers had with Rivers and Brees! Not bad right?

Chargers made settled on Rivers and sent Brees to the Saints. I'd like to see the same scenario here in Denver. At least I'm thinking long term. Its better Elway drafts a QB now so that if Tebow isn't the answer at least Elway doesn't need to search for a QB 2 or 3 years from now.

QB is one of the few positions where depth does you little good. Sure if a QB gets hurt it is good to have a capable backup, but it's not like a RB or DT whre they can be used to rotate in to keep each other fresh. If you pick a QB early you expect him to start soon, if you expect him to start soon you souldn't settle for the 6th best college QB this year. Go get a Vet FA, and if the season tanks get Barkley or whoever else is the hot ticket

Npba900
02-28-2012, 06:53 PM
The Oak game,what about the second half against the Jets. The Vikings game. And last but not least against the Steelers #1 defense.

But i'm sure those where flukes and the steelers defense certainly was not that good.

Tebow also played against the NE Defense that was rated somewhere in the 30's and he played horrible! Yet he threw for over 300 yards against the Steelers No. 1 rated defense.

In 2012, Tim will have tougher schedule and will have face teams now that have film on him and have schemed specifically shut him down.

If he could be more accurate and get the ball out faster, he could be dangerous given his innate will to win and his running ability.

Either he blossoms next year, or it will be the beginning of the end for him in the NFL as a QB, and perhaps the beginning of a new career at the TE position..

Npba900
02-28-2012, 06:57 PM
OH my TIMMY. Please WE in no way or form want to be anything like the DOLTS.

Brees was halfway out the door when they traded for/drafted Rivers. It was only then that HE turned it around. And good for him. He has a nice ring while the Bolts are well the Bolts.

Both teams came out the situation with Elite QB's......did they not? I believe either Tebow or the the QB Elway drafts fairly high in this years draft will battle it out to see who will be the long-term franchise QB in Denver.

catfish
02-28-2012, 06:58 PM
Tebow also played against the NE Defense that was rated somewhere in the 30's and he played horrible! Yet he threw for over 300 yards against the Steelers No. 1 rated defense.

In 2012, Tim will have tougher schedule and will have face teams now that have film on him and have schemed specifically shut him down.

If he could be more accurate and get the ball out faster, he could be dangerous given his innate will to win and his running ability.

Either he blossoms next year, or it will be the beginning of the end for him in the NFL as a QB, and perhaps the beginning of a new career at the TE position..

are you talking the first NE game or the 2nd?

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 07:02 PM
So you're saying Thomas had NOTHING to do with those catches in the Pittsburgh game? You're saying that it was all Tebow on those long completions?

Give me a break, dude. :laugh:

where did I say that?? :confused:

Now it's Thomas who made the catches?

Mind you Tebow hit him in stride on a pass from the pocket:eek:

You dudes are splitting hairs now:coffee:

BORDERLINE
02-28-2012, 07:08 PM
Tebow also played against the NE Defense that was rated somewhere in the 30's and he played horrible! Yet he threw for over 300 yards against the Steelers No. 1 rated defense.

In 2012, Tim will have tougher schedule and will have face teams now that have film on him and have schemed specifically shut him down.

If he could be more accurate and get the ball out faster, he could be dangerous given his innate will to win and his running ability.

Either he blossoms next year, or it will be the beginning of the end for him in the NFL as a QB, and perhaps the beginning of a new career at the TE position..

Yes he did. He struggled tremendously against the PATS in the DIVISIONAL PLAYOFF GAME. He looked uncomfortable and we trailed by a lot real early so it got out of hand quick.

But anyway what's your point on that? That he does good against really bad teams but kicks azz and breaks records against good ones?

The schedule's difficulty level is subject to change as the season wears on. Teams you figured are solid will flake out. Teams you figure are easy will be on the up and up. So that argument holds no merit.

Your last two lines really hit the nail on the head. Except that TE comment. But your right. This year all these questions are gonna be answered.

My whole thing is get him weapons or add to the defense instead of adding a QB so early when it is not necessary.

Npba900
02-28-2012, 07:10 PM
are you talking the first NE game or the 2nd?

I'm talking both games. In the two games Tim faced against NE, he was 10-24-165 with no TD's or Interceptions. Overall, Tebow was 20-48-330yds with zero TD's and Interceptions.

catfish
02-28-2012, 07:26 PM
I'm talking both games. In the two games Tim faced against NE, he was 10-24-165 with no TD's or Interceptions. Overall, Tebow was 20-48-330yds with zero TD's and Interceptions.

the first game he had 194 yds passing and 93 yds rushing, total offense was 393 yds

I believe the average NE gave up this year was 411, so while they were a bit below average it wasn't by much, also they scored 23 points, NE gave up an average of 21 points, so they were above average there. Most of the comentators i saw actually said he looked good during that game looking at the 8.8 ypa it is hard to argue.

now if you just mean the 2nd NE game I agree...he was horrible, as was everyone else on the team. He sucked, the line got beat like a rented mule, the defense was pathetic, the running game was non existant...it is what it is

RebelRocker
02-28-2012, 07:33 PM
where did I say that?? :confused:

Now it's Thomas who made the catches?

Mind you Tebow hit him in stride on a pass from the pocket:eek:

You dudes are splitting hairs now:coffee:

I really don't mean to knit pick, but a 15 yard slant isn't the most difficult throw in the world. You HAVE to admit, THAT play was 90% Thomas.