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Denver Native (Carol)
03-19-2009, 09:49 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11944006

Attention, Kmart shoppers. Let's address the Josh McDaniels-Jay Cutler matter, because I've gotten thousands of e-mails and comments on it, and it's the biggest story in Denver. Let me just take care of it right here and deal with some of the issues brought up by readers.

I get these he's-a-poor-whining-crybaby statements and questions. "He should shut up. He makes a lot of money."

I have a real problem here. I've had two jobs in my life from which I tried to walk away because I didn't want to work for my boss. It had nothing to do with money. It had to do with how we are treated, or even how we perceive we are treated.

Let's say you have a job that pays $25,000, and your boss wants to send you to Detroit to worse working conditions, and your boss lied to you, and his bosses aren't on your side, and you know the boss will continue to try to get rid of you. Are you a whining baby or a human being? What if someone who makes $12,000 says: "You make a lot of money. Shut up and take it." What would be your response?

I once told someone close to me I was quitting a very lucrative position -- not with my current employers -- because I was being disrespected, lied to and was not allowed to do what was in my (contractual) agreement, and they wanted to get rid of me, and I was miserable. "What about a man who has a family? He couldn't do that."

I was supporting three people at the time, and they were important to me, and I was determined I would find another job somewhere, somehow, and borrow money, or do whatever was necessary to get out of that situation. It doesn't matter whether you make $1 million or $1. We want to be respected, loved even, but we don't want to be lied to. So don't give me that garbage about how Cutler is whining, and he should shut up and play quarterback where he has been disrespected, lied to and lost two bosses that liked him, and where he obviously was unwanted.

So, blame it on Cutler if you want. But McDaniels said he had no intention of trading Cutler. Yet, he told a national columnist a few days ago, and I quote, "We were late to the dance." He was trying to get Matt Cassel. Maybe Cassel would be better for him, but he should have been honest with Cutler at that moment, right after Cutler was in town studying the new playbook, but he has that New England Patriots attitude.

I don't think either should go. McDaniels, the GM (whoever he is) and Pat Bowlen should have gotten on a plane, gone to Nashville, Tenn., and groveled. Bowlen said a few weeks ago, and I quote, "Obviously he (Cutler) is the man around here." Suddenly, he no longer is "the man," he's not any kind of man to the Broncos' new regime.

Cutler probably should give in, as another quarterback has told me, and realize it's a business. Well, no business should treat the employees that way. Some people just want to throw Cutler to Detroit for revenge. Many others say get rid of him, and don't even care if the Broncos get a quarterback in return.

Has anybody examined Chris Simms' background in Tampa Bay? I haven't heard anyone here call him a whining crybaby. I will have some information on his situation with the Bucs after he lost his spleen and how he was treated in my column on Sunday.

What about Bowlen? Totally messed this up.

Bus Cook, the gnarly agent for Cutler. Totally messed this up.

All four (and, I suppose, the general manager) have handled the entire matter so poorly, and it's easy to say a pox on all their houses. But work it out. Stop being the man who has the biggest ego. This country has battled other countries, and, in the end, you do what's best for everybody. John Kennedy demanded that the Soviet Union back down. What he also did quietly was agree to take the missiles and troops out of Turkey. Compromise. The Broncos don't need this. Their fans don't want this. Nobody can be happy.

Except somewhere, Mike Shanahan is smiling.

NightTrainLayne
03-19-2009, 10:05 AM
So, blame it on Cutler if you want. But McDaniels said he had no intention of trading Cutler. Yet, he told a national columnist a few days ago, and I quote, "We were late to the dance." He was trying to get Matt Cassel.

I agree with the conclusion of this article, but the quote above I've seen in virtually the same form in four or five different columns now and it has a serious flaw in the logic.

Everyone knew that the Patriots intention was to trade Cassell. Everyone. It wasn't a secret. No, instead the Pats told anyone that would listen that their plan was to franchise him and trade him. Smart move on the Pats part as long as Brady makes it back next year.

So. .. if McDaniels was pursuing Cassell, then how could they be late to the party? If this was (as Shannon Sharpe says) "the first thing McDaniels tried to do", then how the heck are they late to the party?

Of course, for anyone who listens to the Front Offices statements, they've said all along that they were approached by another team to make a three-way swap, but were "too late" to get it done.

There are two stories there:

1. Broncos doing everything they can to get Cassell, but too late to the party.

2. Broncos get approached by a third team to make a three-way swap for Cassell and some draft picks but they were too late to the party.

I'm no genius but only one of those stories makes sense.

frauschieze
03-19-2009, 10:18 AM
Just to play devil's advocate:

We did have a front office problem right before the FA period started. Maybe McDaniels really wanted to go after Cassel and Jim Goodman said no. Maybe Xanders was more open to the idea. That kind of chaos in the front office could cause the Broncos to be "late to the party" of their own accord because they didn't have their own ducks in a row.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 10:20 AM
Just to play devil's advocate:

We did have a front office problem right before the FA period started. Maybe McDaniels really wanted to go after Cassel and Jim Goodman said no. Maybe Xanders was more open to the idea. That kind of chaos in the front office could cause the Broncos to be "late to the party" of their own accord because they didn't have their own ducks in a row.

Interesting possibility

claymore
03-19-2009, 10:24 AM
Just to play devil's advocate:

We did have a front office problem right before the FA period started. Maybe McDaniels really wanted to go after Cassel and Jim Goodman said no. Maybe Xanders was more open to the idea. That kind of chaos in the front office could cause the Broncos to be "late to the party" of their own accord because they didn't have their own ducks in a row.

Ive thought about that as well.

BroncoJoe
03-19-2009, 10:25 AM
Ive thought about that as well.

Impossible. You don't think.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 10:26 AM
Which all goes to show...none of us have enough of a clue to pick one side or the other

claymore
03-19-2009, 10:26 AM
Impossible. You don't think.

Words hurt Joe. Words hurt.

BroncoJoe
03-19-2009, 10:27 AM
Words hurt Joe. Words hurt.

What happened to the thread you were going to start?

claymore
03-19-2009, 10:27 AM
What happened to the thread you were going to start?

I take this as a green light.

BroncoJoe
03-19-2009, 10:29 AM
I take this as a green light.

:couch:

Dirk
03-19-2009, 10:42 AM
Which all goes to show...none of us have enough of a clue to pick one side or the other

I agree with you here. :beer:

If we all take the "emotion" out of the situation, we really don't know who/what/where/why/how everything went down.

All we can do is sit back and wait to see how it all pans out. :coffee:

NightTrainLayne
03-19-2009, 10:49 AM
Just to play devil's advocate:

We did have a front office problem right before the FA period started. Maybe McDaniels really wanted to go after Cassel and Jim Goodman said no. Maybe Xanders was more open to the idea. That kind of chaos in the front office could cause the Broncos to be "late to the party" of their own accord because they didn't have their own ducks in a row.


Interesting possibility

That's interesting indeed. I'll have to ponder that.

There are just so many damned unknowns in this deal to really sort it all out with any degree of accuracy.

I hope that we win a SB in the next few years and McDaniels writes a book to let us all in on all of it. It would certainly be entertaining.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 10:52 AM
That's interesting indeed. I'll have to ponder that.

There are just so many damned unknowns in this deal to really sort it all out with any degree of accuracy.

I hope that we win a SB in the next few years and McDaniels writes a book to let us all in on all of it. It would certainly be entertaining.

...and I think this is all many of us want to see. A little parity in the situation. It is heartbreaking and annoying to see so many people make McDaniels out to be Satan when NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING about what went down in the meetings.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-19-2009, 11:01 AM
...and I think this is all many of us want to see. A little parity in the situation. It is heartbreaking and annoying to see so many people make McDaniels out to be Satan when NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING about what went down in the meetings.

And, it's just as much heartbreaking and annoying to see so many people make Jay out a whiner, cry baby, etc., when NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT what went down in the meetings.

And, here is another interesting article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3995461

Jay Cutler's agent says his client's relationship with the Denver Broncos disintegrated after the firing of coach Mike Shanahan and a broken promise that Shanahan's offensive staff would largely remain intact, according to a report on NFL.com.

Bus Cook told the Web site that Cutler met with Broncos owner Pat Bowlen shortly after Shanahan was fired on Dec. 30 to express his concerns.

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff," Cook told NFL.com.

New Broncos coach Josh McDaniels overhauled the offensive staff after his arrival.

Bowlen, however, says he doesn't remember having the conversation with Cutler that Cook references.

"I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion," Bowlen told NFL.com.

Cook has formally requested a trade on Cutler's behalf, but contrary to reports, he says he didn't immediately demand that his client be traded.

"Jay met with the coach early on and then told me everything was going to be OK. He said, 'We are going to work this out; we are on the same wavelength.' Everything was fine until Saturday two weeks ago," Cook told NFL.com. "Jay called me and asked, 'Are they trying to trade me?' I told him, 'No, why would they try to do that?' "

The Broncos reportedly tried to unload Cutler in a three-way trade proposal that would have brought former Patriots quarterback Matt Cassel, whom McDaniels worked with in New England, to Denver. Cassel was eventually traded to the Kansas City Chiefs for a second-round pick.

As recently as the last meeting between Cutler and McDaniels, Cook said his client was ready to commit to the Broncos. However, he claims, the Broncos wouldn't commit to Cutler.

"We told them the evening of our last meeting that Jay wanted to be a Bronco even before the meeting," Cook told NFL.com. "Jay told them he understood about the coach's relationship with Matt Cassel. At no time was the coach critical of Jay. In fact, he told Jay soon after he got to Denver that Jay was the reason he came to Denver. So, why was he trying to trade him? All the guy had to do was say I dropped the ball, I have a special bond with Cassel, you are my guy. Jay never heard that. What he heard in the meeting was it could happen again."

Bowlen said he would like Cutler to remain with the Broncos, but the writing might be on the wall for his departure.

"I would like to keep him here, obviously. But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here," Bowlen told NFL.com.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-19-2009, 11:04 AM
Send Jay to Siberia.

NightTrainLayne
03-19-2009, 11:05 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3995461

Jay Cutler's agent says his client's relationship with the Denver Broncos disintegrated after the firing of coach Mike Shanahan and a broken promise that Shanahan's offensive staff would largely remain intact, according to a report on NFL.com.

Bus Cook told the Web site that Cutler met with Broncos owner Pat Bowlen shortly after Shanahan was fired on Dec. 30 to express his concerns.

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff," Cook told NFL.com.


Someone debunked this in another thread, replete with links.

This supposed meeting with Bowlen is unlikely because Cutler left town immediately after our last game, and a day before Shanny was fired. Then as we know he wouldn't/couldn't return phone calls to McDaniels when McD got hired.

Maybe Bowlen and Cutler had a phone conversation, but it doesn't sound like they had some big sit-down pow-wow to line out personnel decisions. This is more Bus Cook stirring the pot, and telling us what Bus Cook wants us to hear.

pnbronco
03-19-2009, 11:10 AM
All four (and, I suppose, the general manager) have handled the entire matter so poorly, and it's easy to say a pox on all their houses. But work it out. Stop being the man who has the biggest ego. This country has battled other countries, and, in the end, you do what's best for everybody. John Kennedy demanded that the Soviet Union back down. What he also did quietly was agree to take the missiles and troops out of Turkey. Compromise. The Broncos don't need this. Their fans don't want this. Nobody can be happy.

Who would of thought that Woody would be the voice of reason. This is a good article and it brought a different light on this mess. Coach you are right we really don't have enough of anything to figure out what's what and who said what.

Frau very interesting possible observation and you could of hit the nail on the head.

About 6 weeks ago I caught a person I had spent a lot of time with in a blatant lie, to my face and I lost it. I was over the most stupid thing in the world and have no value what so ever but the lying to my face just really set me off and most of the time I'm pretty calm. On the other side my Dad was having really serious health issues so I was stretch to the limit. I felt wronged, betrayed and like I was right back in Jr. High and I hated it the first time. So the adult me kept fighting with the Jr High me in saying let it go, you hang out with these people in a social setting, let it go, you will only hurt the other people around if you start a war. I did let it go but it took weeks of me fighting with myself. I didn't have anyone else to flame the fire and keep it going, thank goodness. I also don't have to face or work with this person every day and I am so very grateful for that.

So I can understand that feeling of not trusting someone you thought you could. I do think if Jay can work through this he will be a much better QB down the road when it comes to working under pressure. IMO if McDaniels tells Jay in private that he blew it most of this will go away. I really wonder who leaked all this to begin with. So if this gets cleared up what will we talk about? Never mind I'm scared to think what Clay will come up with...:D

TXBRONC
03-19-2009, 11:15 AM
I agree with the conclusion of this article, but the quote above I've seen in virtually the same form in four or five different columns now and it has a serious flaw in the logic.

Everyone knew that the Patriots intention was to trade Cassell. Everyone. It wasn't a secret. No, instead the Pats told anyone that would listen that their plan was to franchise him and trade him. Smart move on the Pats part as long as Brady makes it back next year.

So. .. if McDaniels was pursuing Cassell, then how could they be late to the party? If this was (as Shannon Sharpe says) "the first thing McDaniels tried to do", then how the heck are they late to the party?

Of course, for anyone who listens to the Front Offices statements, they've said all along that they were approached by another team to make a three-way swap, but were "too late" to get it done.

There are two stories there:

1. Broncos doing everything they can to get Cassell, but too late to the party.

2. Broncos get approached by a third team to make a three-way swap for Cassell and some draft picks but they were too late to the party.

I'm no genius but only one of those stories makes sense.

McDaniels has been probably the most active coaches in making offseason moves and being agressive in getting "his guys" yet he was a wall flower when it comes to wanting to trade Cassel for Cutler. That doesn't make sense.

TXBRONC
03-19-2009, 11:17 AM
Someone debunked this in another thread, replete with links.

This supposed meeting with Bowlen is unlikely because Cutler left town immediately after our last game, and a day before Shanny was fired. Then as we know he wouldn't/couldn't return phone calls to McDaniels when McD got hired.

Maybe Bowlen and Cutler had a phone conversation, but it doesn't sound like they had some big sit-down pow-wow to line out personnel decisions. This is more Bus Cook stirring the pot, and telling us what Bus Cook wants us to hear.

Like it's not possible to meet with someone before you catch a flight?

omac
03-19-2009, 11:32 AM
Nice article, Carol! :salute:

I like how the author equates the current controversy to a situation he had at work, where his employer was not giving him the proper respect, and how important that was to him.

NightTrainLayne
03-19-2009, 11:36 AM
Like it's not possible to meet with someone before you catch a flight?

Before Bowlen even fired Shanny he met with Cutler to discuss the coaching change?

Now that's some breaking news.

Cutler left town immediately after we lost the game to SD. I even remember several comments wondering how he had the travel set up so quickly, because if we'd won we would have been in the playoffs.

Then at least a day later, Bowlen let Shanny go.

They didn't "have a meeting" on this.

TXBRONC
03-19-2009, 11:39 AM
Before Bowlen even fired Shanny he met with Cutler to discuss the coaching change?

Now that's some breaking news.

Cutler left town immediately after we lost the game to SD. I even remember several comments wondering how he had the travel set up so quickly, because if we'd won we would have been in the playoffs.

Then at least a day later, Bowlen let Shanny go.

They didn't "have a meeting" on this.

If Bowlen can't even remember saying that Jay is his franchise quarterback then could be mistaken. Also I don't recall hearing that Jay left town immediately.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 11:47 AM
This is all so stupid. I remember going to marriage counseling with my ex-wife. Things were okay until she got to a point where she simply refused to look at fact and started making up assumptions of her own. This Jay/McD shit is like deja vu and a divorce is inevitable.

NightTrainLayne
03-19-2009, 11:53 AM
If Bowlen can't even remember saying that Jay is his franchise quarterback then could be mistaken. Also I don't recall hearing that Jay left town immediately.

Here's the work that nthngd2say did:


I would offer that before people lump Bowlen in with Al Davis they consider that Cook's statement that indicates Bowlen mislead Jay is false. Bus Cook needs to get his facts straight:

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

The Broncos fired Shanahan on Dec 30th and hired McDaniels on Jan 11th. Mike Klis' article http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11947197 says: Cutler left Denver the day before Mike Shanahan was fired and did not return until February. Another article on 1/15 from the Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11457713 states: "Cutler left Denver for vacation just hours after the team returned from San Diego on Dec. 29 and has not been back in town or spoken publicly since McDaniels was hired."

McCrook statements imply that Cutler met face-to-face with Bowlen and was given assurances. How is that possible if Cutler left town the day before Shanahan was fired and was not in town until February? Cutler had spoken with anyone from the Broncos - according to the articles - until Jan 15th when he spoke to McDaniels on the phone briefly after McDaniels had just been hired.

I am not implying this "report" [which it is not since they don't care to verify facts] is Cutler's fault but that Cook is as everyone implied - a pot stirrer and not credible. I also don't recall Cutler being quoted that he felt Bowlen mislead him as Cook also implied. I still don't dispute that Bowlen has played his part in this drama but Cook is lying and piling onto the fire.

Northman
03-19-2009, 11:58 AM
If Bowlen can't even remember saying that Jay is his franchise quarterback then could be mistaken. Also I don't recall hearing that Jay left town immediately.

Yes, Jay left for vacation or whatever it was he was doing following the SD game.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-19-2009, 01:21 PM
From the transcript on the day Bowlen/Shanahan held the press conference in regards to Shanahan being fired:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_11346088

On whether he has talked with any of the players and gotten their reactions

"I talked to (QB) Jay Cutler, and Jay understood the conversation. I talked to him this morning. I didn't get any negative feedback. I think he understands enough about the business of football, the game of football, that there are going to be coaching changes and changes in organizations. I didn't sense that Jay had any negative feelings about it, and I'm sure he is very interested in who is going to be the next head coach. Obviously, he is the man around here now, so I will be talking with Jay."

Also, in the transcript:

On the stability of Vice President of Football Operations/Player Personnel Jim Goodman

"Jim Goodman has his job, and he will have his job." :tsk:

Just WHAT IN THE HELL happened after this press conference to totally go a different direction from what Bowlen stated in the press conference?????

Requiem / The Dagda
03-19-2009, 01:46 PM
Someone poisoned the Kool-Aid in Dove Valley. Damn that Jim Jones!

Denver Native (Carol)
03-19-2009, 02:05 PM
Someone poisoned the Kool-Aid in Dove Valley. Damn that Jim Jones!

Well, thank you, now we have the answer :rolleyes:

Requiem / The Dagda
03-19-2009, 02:21 PM
You're welcome. You are just lucky I am not charging you all for my opinions. I'd be rich.