PDA

View Full Version : Bowlen on the Band Wagon



eessydo
03-19-2009, 09:06 AM
I had a thought this morning, "why do I feel like this mess was caused because Pat Bowlen got on the "32 year old coaching band wagon" with the success of Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh?"

First he goes off and hires an OFFENSIVE coordinator, the youngest of all the individuals interviewed and didn't even look internally at Bates, then he gets rid of the brothers and hands Xanders the keys to personnel (well not really but we can address that later).

I just feel like he is desperate to meet the new NFL head coaching model, and less interested in finding the right coach.

Had we picked up Jim Schwartz or Spagnuola we definitely would not be in the mess we are in now.

I am willing to bet, by his recent comments, that he is seriously regretting his decision to hire these schmoes.

claymore
03-19-2009, 09:11 AM
So much for younger coaches relating to today's players.

Northman
03-19-2009, 09:15 AM
Good grief.

weazel
03-19-2009, 09:15 AM
noone can "relate" to todays players. The only thing that todays players relate to is MONEY.

BroncoJoe
03-19-2009, 09:19 AM
noone can "relate" to todays players. The only thing that todays players relate to is MONEY.

... and their agents...

underrated29
03-19-2009, 10:33 AM
and drugs for some, and popcorn for others, and hitting people with their cars, and fighting people in clubs....You can relate to some players that way too.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 10:34 AM
I had a thought this morning, "why do I feel like this mess was caused because Pat Bowlen got on the "32 year old coaching band wagon" with the success of Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh?"

First he goes off and hires an OFFENSIVE coordinator, the youngest of all the individuals interviewed and didn't even look internally at Bates, then he gets rid of the brothers and hands Xanders the keys to personnel (well not really but we can address that later).

I just feel like he is desperate to meet the new NFL head coaching model, and less interested in finding the right coach.

Had we picked up Jim Schwartz or Spagnuola we definitely would not be in the mess we are in now.

I am willing to bet, by his recent comments, that he is seriously regretting his decision to hire these schmoes.


Prove this

dunk7
03-19-2009, 10:45 AM
Prove this

You think Spagnola or Schwartz would mess with offence? Bring in Cassel? Common now, use some common sense. Schwartz is trying to get Cutler....that should be proof enough. And Spags isn't trying to bring in a NYG backup to replace Bulger!

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 10:50 AM
You think Spagnola or Schwartz would mess with offence? Bring in Cassel? Common now, use some common sense. Schwartz is trying to get Cutler....that should be proof enough. And Spags isn't trying to bring in a NYG backup to replace Bulger!

That doesnt mean they wouldnt screw something else up. Spags knows he can win with a good defense and above average QB. So does Schwartz.

Tell me definitively they'd turn down an offer to pick up defensive help for Cutler.

nthngd2say
03-19-2009, 11:00 AM
I had a thought this morning, "why do I feel like this mess was caused because Pat Bowlen got on the "32 year old coaching band wagon" with the success of Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh?"

First he goes off and hires an OFFENSIVE coordinator, the youngest of all the individuals interviewed and didn't even look internally at Bates, then he gets rid of the brothers and hands Xanders the keys to personnel (well not really but we can address that later).

I just feel like he is desperate to meet the new NFL head coaching model, and less interested in finding the right coach.

Had we picked up Jim Schwartz or Spagnuola we definitely would not be in the mess we are in now.

I am willing to bet, by his recent comments, that he is seriously regretting his decision to hire these schmoes.

I have no idea if Bowlen felt like he was out of touch and that hiring a young coach was his answer to that. I do believe that Bowlen felt going 17-20 with no playoff appearances over the past three seasons and adding yet another ominous Broncos record of losing a three game division lead with four games left [the first team in NFL since division play began to blow a three-game lead with three weeks remaining] meant it was time for a change. I doubt Bowlen was impressed with the Broncos ability to draft/acquire defensive talent over that same time span either as the previous regime showed we can have a great offense but without the defense we can't even make the playoffs once let alone win a SuperBowl.

I am a naive Broncos fan who believes Bowlen selected the HC he thought would be most successful. Previous Denver Post and RMN articles mentioned that Bowlen may not be a fan of defensive coaches citing the Wade Phillips era. I don't know if that is true or not.

I also think that speculating who another HC would or would not have brought in is nothing better than a guess as they could easily replace any coaches depending on their agenda and opinions of the remaing Shanahan staff. Its all a guess.

Would a different HC trade Cutler? Who knows. I do know that Cutler has not been traded and most reports support that he won't be traded. The media is feeding the speculation but we haven't heard any new quotes or stories from Cutler or McDaniels since the ones from Sunday evening. Even the quotes from McCrook are old. Suddenly all is quiet. My hope is that means they are finally quietly working on a resolution.

Northman
03-19-2009, 11:06 AM
So, let me get this straight.


Certain fans will come out of the woodwork to defend Cutler and his losing record as a QB but then write off a Coach who hasnt even coached his first game as a Bronco yet?

Seriously, the sillyness has just got to stop. This board is starting to become a cesspool with overreacting drama queens. If after this year McD goes winless and Jay is in another town winning a SB than you can come in and jerk off to yourself. But until, stop the madness already. Its just flat out embarrassing to even be a part of this board anymore.

MHCBill
03-19-2009, 11:09 AM
Prove thisIt's impossible to prove a negative. This did not happen, hence it can not be proven.

OTH... you can't prove that things would be working out great if either of those coaches were hired, because that did not happen either.

You can only prove positives.

McDaniels hiring has lead to this mess. That can be proven.

McDaniels was hired. = Fact (proven)

We have a mess. = Fact (proven)

McDaniels hiring has lead to this mess. = Fact (proven)

nthngd2say
03-19-2009, 11:21 AM
It has been stated many times, but Bowlen, McDaniels, Cutler and McCrook have all played their part in this drama. That's all it is though is drama. Cutler has not been traded and for the 3rd time this week, the Broncos have said they are not entertaining offers for Cutler.

I would also say that while it is an easy argument to say that another HC would not cause any issues because that would indicate an ability to predict the future, McCrook claims Cutler was/is upset that changes were made on offense... other than Bates and Pat McPherson, Dennison and Turner were retained, Fisch took a job with Minnesota and I can't think of another position coach on offense that matters [hopefully I didn't miss anyone]. I don't recall McDaniels saying he was going a different direction with anyone else but Bates and McPherson.

Spags also brought in his own offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur - changing to West Coast offense which Bulger has never run. I don't know if that upset Bulger or not but I don't remember hearing/reading about it. I believe most HC bring in their own guys. I believe Schwartz didn't retain several Lions offensive staff either but I don't remember for certain. Culpepper is just thankful to be in the league so I doubt we'll hear anything from him. I also can't say though if either would have brought the same guys to Denver or kept our staff. Typically a new HC wants his guys.

Northman
03-19-2009, 11:25 AM
It has been stated many times, but Bowlen, McDaniels, Cutler and McCrook have all played their part in this drama. That's all it is though is drama. Cutler has not been traded and for the 3rd time this week, the Broncos have said they are not entertaining offers for Cutler.

I would also say that while it is an easy argument to say that another HC would not cause any issues because that would indicate an ability to predict the future, McCrook claims Cutler was/is upset that changes were made on offense... other than Bates and Pat McPherson, Dennison and Turner were retained, Fisch took a job with Minnesota and I can't think of another position coach on offense that matters [hopefully I didn't miss anyone]. I don't recall McDaniels saying he was going a different direction with anyone else but Bates and McPherson.

Spags also brought in his own offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur - changing to West Coast offense which Bulger has never run. I don't know if that upset Bulger or not but I don't remember hearing/reading about it. I believe most HC bring in their own guys. I believe Schwartz didn't retain several Lions offensive staff either but I don't remember for certain. Culpepper is just thankful to be in the league so I doubt we'll hear anything from him. I also can't say though if either would have brought the same guys to Denver or kept our staff. Typically a new HC wants his guys.

Bingo.

Anytime you get a new HC he has a plan and set list of individuals who likes to work with and will bring in with him.

roomemp
03-19-2009, 11:39 AM
So, let me get this straight.


Certain fans will come out of the woodwork to defend Cutler and his losing record as a QB but then write off a Coach who hasnt even coached his first game as a Bronco yet?

Seriously, the sillyness has just got to stop. This board is starting to become a cesspool with overreacting drama queens. If after this year McD goes winless and Jay is in another town winning a SB than you can come in and jerk off to yourself. But until, stop the madness already. Its just flat out embarrassing to even be a part of this board anymore.

One of the best posts i have seen in a while. Thanks Northman

omac
03-19-2009, 12:04 PM
So, let me get this straight.


Certain fans will come out of the woodwork to defend Cutler and his losing record as a QB but then write off a Coach who hasnt even coached his first game as a Bronco yet?

Seriously, the sillyness has just got to stop. This board is starting to become a cesspool with overreacting drama queens. If after this year McD goes winless and Jay is in another town winning a SB than you can come in and jerk off to yourself. But until, stop the madness already. Its just flat out embarrassing to even be a part of this board anymore.

See, that's where your assumption is wrong. Though I am a fan of Shanahan, I was looking forward to McDaniels coaching this team, and I was expecting our offense and our defense (because of the hiring of Nolan) to be much better. Check out posts from when McDaniels was first hired, and you'll see a lot of us were looking forward to seeing what McDaniels could do. Not all of us were hoping for McDaniels to fail. I know I wasn't, and still am not.

What we're most disgruntled about now is the way he's mishandled and continuing to mishandle the situation with Cutler. If he got it done right, Cutler would've been traded immediately and he would've gotten Cassel, or Cutler wouldn't have known about it, or would've been appeased much earlier.

Everyone believes McDaniels handled the situation badly, and made a problem where before he came in, there was none. Before McDaniels arrived, no commentator believed the offense was the problem, only the defense. Analysts on NFL.com (or maybe ESPN or MSNBC or FOX, can't remember) were asked, on video, which of the new coaches was entering the best situation, and Denver was mentioned, because they already had a franchise QB to go along with a potent offense.

Most likely, if any other head coach was hired by Denver, they wouldn't have been interested in trading Cutler for Cassel. This current fiasco is his fault, and the escalation is something he could've prevented. Unfortunately, his poor people skills are coming out.

I don't question his X's and O's ability; recent events have gotten me to question how he connects with his players. Petrino was a great offensive mind too, but he couldn't connect with his players, and that led to disaster for Atlanta. It's already led to disaster in Denver, not just with Cutler, but most likely with other players in the locker room, as has been reported.

I'm still not convinced that McDaniels wants Cutler, but that's his prerogative as a coach. I'd rather they trade Cutler already, as there won't be any trust there. McDaniels might as well get a QB he can start fresh with. As Sharpe says, you can't start off a relationship with a lie.

Northman
03-19-2009, 12:18 PM
See, that's where your assumption is wrong. Though I am a fan of Shanahan, I was looking forward to McDaniels coaching this team, and I was expecting our offense and our defense (because of the hiring of Nolan) to be much better. Check out posts from when McDaniels was first hired, and you'll see a lot of us were looking forward to seeing what McDaniels could do. Not all of us were hoping for McDaniels to fail. I know I wasn't, and still am not.

What we're most disgruntled about now is the way he's mishandled and continuing to mishandle the situation with Cutler. If he got it done right, Cutler would've been traded immediately and he would've gotten Cassel, or Cutler wouldn't have known about it, or would've been appeased much earlier.

Everyone believes McDaniels handled the situation badly, and made a problem where before he came in, there was none. Before McDaniels arrived, no commentator believed the offense was the problem, only the defense. Analysts on NFL.com (or maybe ESPN or MSNBC or FOX, can't remember) were asked, on video, which of the new coaches was entering the best situation, and Denver was mentioned, because they already had a franchise QB to go along with a potent offense.

Most likely, if any other head coach was hired by Denver, they wouldn't have been interested in trading Cutler for Cassel. This current fiasco is his fault, and the escalation is something he could've prevented. Unfortunately, his poor people skills are coming out.

I don't question his X's and O's ability; recent events have gotten me to question how he connects with his players. Petrino was a great offensive mind too, but he couldn't connect with his players, and that led to disaster for Atlanta. It's already led to disaster in Denver, not just with Cutler, but most likely with other players in the locker room, as has been reported.

I'm still not convinced that McDaniels wants Cutler, but that's his prerogative as a coach. I'd rather they trade Cutler already, as there won't be any trust there. McDaniels might as well get a QB he can start fresh with. As Sharpe says, you can't start off a relationship with a lie.


No, my assumption is actually on the money. I still see a lot of other's still crying over spilt milk. Its already been noted that McD screwed the pooch in terms of his dishonesty to Cutler regarding the possible trade. However, its time to move on. What was once a sense of deception from McD is now all laid out on the table. When Josh and Jay talked the last time Josh still told him that no player was untradeable. And that goes for every player from Jay all the way down to Champ Bailey. So they ALL know that they are expendable at this point yet no one else is crying foul about that possibility. Most have come out and said that the situation will work itself out yet we have a bunch of Yahoo's on here who are still crying about something that never came to fruition anyway. I mentioned this the other day, if im Cutler, i go out and prove that it was a mistake to even toy with the idea of trading me.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 12:22 PM
No, my assumption is actually on the money. I still see a lot of other's still crying over spilt milk. Its already been noted that McD screwed the pooch in terms of his dishonesty to Cutler regarding the possible trade. However, its time to move on. What was once a sense of deception from McD is now all laid out on the table. When Josh and Jay talked the last time Josh still told him that no player was untradeable. And that goes for every player from Jay all the way down to Champ Bailey. So they ALL know that they are expendable at this point yet no one else is crying foul about that possibility. Most have come out and said that the situation will work itself out yet we have a bunch of Yahoo's on here who are still crying about something that never came to fruition anyway. I mentioned this the other day, if im Cutler, i go out and prove that it was a mistake to even toy with the idea of trading me.

This seems to be the perception of all the ex-QB's that are asked about this situation. They all seem to say the same thing. Go out and show them what you are made of and what you're worth. Demanding a trade is the easy way out

Lonestar
03-19-2009, 12:41 PM
It's impossible to prove a negative. This did not happen, hence it can not be proven.

OTH... you can't prove that things would be working out great if either of those coaches were hired, because that did not happen either.

You can only prove positives.

McDaniels hiring has lead to this mess. That can be proven.

McDaniels was hired. = Fact (proven)

We have a mess. = Fact (proven)

McDaniels hiring has lead to this mess. = Fact (proven)

you forgot the biggest and most important part ..

Bus cook instigates issues for his QB clients..

if bus is not telling jay what to say or do most likely none of this is ever an issue.. jay and Josh set down and talk man to man..

Lonestar
03-19-2009, 12:45 PM
Everyone believes McDaniels handled the situation badly, and made a problem where before he came in, there was none. .


Not everyone believes this to be a true statement.. I know I do not..

In fact I only wish it had come to fruition..

omac
03-19-2009, 12:55 PM
No, my assumption is actually on the money. I still see a lot of other's still crying over spilt milk. Its already been noted that McD screwed the pooch in terms of his dishonesty to Cutler regarding the possible trade. However, its time to move on. What was once a sense of deception from McD is now all laid out on the table. When Josh and Jay talked the last time Josh still told him that no player was untradeable. And that goes for every player from Jay all the way down to Champ Bailey. So they ALL know that they are expendable at this point yet no one else is crying foul about that possibility. Most have come out and said that the situation will work itself out yet we have a bunch of Yahoo's on here who are still crying about something that never came to fruition anyway. I mentioned this the other day, if im Cutler, i go out and prove that it was a mistake to even toy with the idea of trading me.

For another point of view from a player, check out the Sharpe interview to hear what he and Al say about the situation.

Sharpe believes that between QB and coach, once the trust is broken, it can't be repaired. In he and Al's interpretation, if McDaniels gets a chance in the future to trade for the QB he wants, he will do it. Jay knows he'll do it, and McDaniels knows that Jay knows. He gives other examples. He also mentions that with his (Sharpe's) beef with Shanahan, he had possition coaches to be the buffer; since McDaniels will be calling the plays and will in essence be in charge of the offense, there won't be any buffer, which will make it harder for them to work together.

It's not a small thing to get over; it's major, and Sharpe doesn't believe it can work out.

That's how other posters feel about the situation. It would've been different if McDaniels was honest about it early on, and assured Jay that he wouldn't trade him, but he wasn't, and he still hasn't given Jay that assurance either.

MHCBill
03-19-2009, 12:59 PM
you forgot the biggest and most important part ..

Bus cook instigates issues for his QB clients..

if bus is not telling jay what to say or do most likely none of this is ever an issue.. jay and Josh set down and talk man to man..That has nothing to do with proving a negative.

omac
03-19-2009, 12:59 PM
This seems to be the perception of all the ex-QB's that are asked about this situation. They all seem to say the same thing. Go out and show them what you are made of and what you're worth. Demanding a trade is the easy way out

Again, Sharpe disagrees with your thinking, citing the dishonesty as the major hindrance to the important QB-coach relationship from working. He advises that Jay should hold out, because if he does attend, he'd be saying that McDaniels was right and things are okay, when they're not. His perspective, anyway.

weazel
03-19-2009, 01:06 PM
forget the band, I think Bowlens just on the wagon.

turftoad
03-19-2009, 01:11 PM
you forgot the biggest and most important part ..

Bus cook instigates issues for his QB clients..

if bus is not telling jay what to say or do most likely none of this is ever an issue.. jay and Josh set down and talk man to man..

If McD didn't TRY to trade for Cassel, this is never an issue.

If that didn't happen, Jay plays under his contract and resigns/negotiates when he and the Broncos are ready.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 01:14 PM
If McD didn't TRY to trade for Cassel, this is never an issue.

If that didn't happen, Jay plays under his contract and resigns/negotiates when he and the Broncos are ready.

Assumption

TXBRONC
03-19-2009, 01:15 PM
If McD didn't TRY to trade for Cassel, this is never an issue.

If that didn't happen, Jay plays under his contract and resigns/negotiates when he and the Broncos are ready.

All things being equal that is probably true.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 01:17 PM
Again, Sharpe disagrees with your thinking, citing the dishonesty as the major hindrance to the important QB-coach relationship from working. He advises that Jay should hold out, because if he does attend, he'd be saying that McDaniels was right and things are okay, when they're not. His perspective, anyway.

That's great but Sharpe isnt a QB.

And all Jay has to say is I'm here for my teammates. No one would say he gave in.

turftoad
03-19-2009, 01:32 PM
Assumption

Yes, the part about him playing under his current contract is but the part of McD TRYING to trade him isn't.
McD admitted it.

WARHORSE
03-19-2009, 01:55 PM
I had a thought this morning, "why do I feel like this mess was caused because Pat Bowlen got on the "32 year old coaching band wagon" with the success of Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh?"

First he goes off and hires an OFFENSIVE coordinator, the youngest of all the individuals interviewed and didn't even look internally at Bates, then he gets rid of the brothers and hands Xanders the keys to personnel (well not really but we can address that later).

I just feel like he is desperate to meet the new NFL head coaching model, and less interested in finding the right coach.

Had we picked up Jim Schwartz or Spagnuola we definitely would not be in the mess we are in now.

I am willing to bet, by his recent comments, that he is seriously regretting his decision to hire these schmoes.

He doesnt want to get into the blame game when it comes to the headcoach....................cause hes joined at the hip.

If Josh fails, Bowlens "I RUN THE SHOW" show at Mikeys release PC brings him right up front and center for the reason the Broncos are where they are.

Hes already looking like an idiot in league circles, and I just pray that we can come out of this mess with at least our panties on, cause we're gettin raped out there by opposing fans.

Thanks McNapoleon.

eessydo
03-23-2009, 02:37 PM
I mentioned this the other day, if im Cutler, i go out and prove that it was a mistake to even toy with the idea of trading me.

And that is what he is going to do, WITH ANOTHER TEAM!

Good days ahead :withstupid: