Lets get rid of Peyton Cutler

[WARHORSE]

For all of you spouting the 'what has Cutler done??'

Peyton started from day one.
Cutler the second half of year one.
Look at Mannings numbers through the first five years.

Does anyone really think Cutler has hit his peak?


Peyton Manning..........gunslinger.

1998- 26 TDs 28 INTs

1999- 26 TDs 15 INTs

2000- 33 TDs 15 INTs

2001- 26 TDs 23 INTs

2002- 27 TDs 19 INTs

--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

2003- 29 TDs 10 INTs

2004- 49 TDs 10 INTs

2005- 28 TDs 10 INTs

2006- 31 TDs 9 INTs

2007- 31 TDs 14 INTs

2008- 27 TDs 12 INTs

Trade Cutler:

DUMBEST MOVE IN HISTORY

[NightTrainLayne]

Trade Cutler:

DUMBEST MOVE IN HISTORY

Cutler hasn't been traded.

[Gamechanger]

For all of you spouting the 'what has Cutler done??'

Peyton started from day one.
Cutler the second half of year one.
Look at Mannings numbers through the first five years.

Does anyone really think Cutler has hit his peak?


Peyton Manning..........gunslinger.

1998- 26 TDs 28 INTs

1999- 26 TDs 15 INTs

2000- 33 TDs 15 INTs

2001- 26 TDs 23 INTs

2002- 27 TDs 19 INTs

--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

2003- 29 TDs 10 INTs

2004- 49 TDs 10 INTs

2005- 28 TDs 10 INTs

2006- 31 TDs 9 INTs

2007- 31 TDs 14 INTs

2008- 27 TDs 12 INTs

Trade Cutler:

DUMBEST MOVE IN HISTORY


Peyton was a .500 starter his 1st 2 years as a QB, just to note that

give Cutler time, yea he's coming off as a pouter but I think this can easily be resolved

[Foochacho]

too bad I can't physically take a dump on a thread. I would be squatting right about now if I could.

[Magnificent Seven]

In addition, John Elway's first 3 seasons, he did not enter to super bowl until season '86. Trade Cutler???? I don't think so!!!!

[Shazam!]

Cutler is not Manning.

[honz]

Maybe I am misreading things, but I don't see many Bronco fans bashing Cutler's play. I think a lot of people may be misinterpreting the "Cutler bashers". I have been harsh on Cutler, but it all has to do with his attitude and behavior...I have no real problem with his play on the field. I can't speak for others, but from what I have read I think a lot of people feel the same way I do.

[Shazam!]

Best post here in days, above.

[LordTrychon]

Maybe I am misreading things, but I don't see many Bronco fans bashing Cutler's play. I think a lot of people may be misinterpreting the "Cutler bashers". I have been harsh on Cutler, but it all has to do with his attitude and behavior...I have no real problem with his play on the field. I can't speak for others, but from what I have read I think a lot of people feel the same way I do.

I'm not sure I agree... I see an alarmingly large number of people (Not saying a majority of the board... but maybe of those willing to part ways with Jay) who quote his W/L record and his INTs as though he were the first and last to throw one... and as though every other QB who has ever thrown an INT did so at much more opportune times.

Good thing we had Charger fans here to point out his negatives all along so that we could use them against each other... :laugh:

[Shazam!]

I criticize his bitching and whining, and how he has helped this thing snowball into what it has. He is not John Elway and some people treat him as such, like the Broncos would cease without him. Right now no player is bigger than the franchise. None. He isn't even the best player athleticly on the team which is Champ, the only player on Denver's roster to be the best in the NFL at their position since the 90's. Sure he's 'just' a CB but still.

I really want him to stay and get this **** worked out, but not at the expense of the whole team. This will affect the season if it continues.

[LordTrychon]

I criticize his bitching and whining, and how he has helped this thing snowball into what it has. I really want him to stay but not at the expense of the whole team. This will affect the season if it continues.

I think there is going to be an adverse effect if he leaves the team (I.E. He will leave at the expense of the whole team).

Just my opinion, of course.

[Shazam!]

I expanded. Damn you're fast.

[Northman]

War, you know i love you man but you just GOT TO LET IT GO. lmao

[silkamilkamonico]

How about Crytlied grows some balls and gets his azz into team workouts so McDancingNancy doesn't have to trade his azz.

[BroncoWave]

This is such flawed logic it's not even funny. What in the world do Manning's improvements in his career have to do with Jay Cutler? When it comes to intelligence and accuracy, Cutler isn't in the same league as Manning. Sure, Cutler has a stronger arm, and could become a great QB, but Manning is the best QB I have ever seen play and I do not think that Cutler will ever reach the accuracy or intelligence that Manning has. I could be wrong, but I don't see it happening.

People seriously need to STOP comparing Cutler to Elway and Manning and just look at him for who he is: A young gunslinger who has all the potential in the world but is a complete primma donna who seriously needs to grow up if he wants to be an elite player in this league. People who say "Oh well we shouldn't trade Cutler because Manning did this, or Elway did that" seriously make me want to punch a wall.

[Shazam!]

This is such flawed logic it's not even funny. What in the world do Manning's improvements in his career have to do with Jay Cutler? When it comes to intelligence and accuracy, Cutler isn't in the same league as Manning. Sure, Cutler has a stronger arm, and could become a great QB, but Manning is the best QB I have ever seen play and I do not think that Cutler will ever reach the accuracy or intelligence that Manning has. I could be wrong, but I don't see it happening.

People seriously need to STOP comparing Cutler to Elway and Manning and just look at him for who he is: A young gunslinger who has all the potential in the world but is a complete primma donna who seriously needs to grow up if he wants to be an elite player in this league. People who say "Oh well we shouldn't trade Cutler because Manning did this, or Elway did that" seriously make me want to punch a wall.


I love it how every QB in the NFL isn't worth **** and Cutler is some kind of freak of nature science project with the DNA of John Elway, Dan Marino, Joe Montana and Sammy Baugh.

I forgot Manning. Sorry.

[BroncoTech]

Originally Posted by BaileyTheBest View Post
This is such flawed logic it's not even funny. What in the world do Manning's improvements in his career have to do with Jay Cutler? When it comes to intelligence and accuracy, Cutler isn't in the same league as Manning. Sure, Cutler has a stronger arm, and could become a great QB, but Manning is the best QB I have ever seen play and I do not think that Cutler will ever reach the accuracy or intelligence that Manning has. I could be wrong, but I don't see it happening.

Actually they are in the same league, last I checked, hrm.
The point is all the greats started rather slow, Elway, Mannings, Joe's, etc. Cutler still has potential & is already a pro bowl QB.

[WARHORSE]

I criticize his bitching and whining, and how he has helped this thing snowball into what it has. He is not John Elway and some people treat him as such, like the Broncos would cease without him. Right now no player is bigger than the franchise. None. He isn't even the best player athleticly on the team which is Champ, the only player on Denver's roster to be the best in the NFL at their position since the 90's. Sure he's 'just' a CB but still.

I really want him to stay and get this **** worked out, but not at the expense of the whole team. This will affect the season if it continues.


What has he done at the expense of the whole team?

And where has he made himself more important than the team?

Youre just 'bitching and whining' about Cutlers same.

Cutler hasnt done anything to warrant trading him.
And that includes his request to do so.

[WARHORSE]

Maybe I am misreading things, but I don't see many Bronco fans bashing Cutler's play. I think a lot of people may be misinterpreting the "Cutler bashers". I have been harsh on Cutler, but it all has to do with his attitude and behavior...I have no real problem with his play on the field. I can't speak for others, but from what I have read I think a lot of people feel the same way I do.


Read the first line of the thread.

[WARHORSE]

War, you know i love you man but you just GOT TO LET IT GO. lmao


Why?

I dont want to be a fan of the dumbest franchise in history, but if thats what I end up being, at least Im going to be one of the guys who can say: I told ya so.


Jay wants to be a Bronco, everyone knows that.

Its just a matter of getting McPoleon to understand hes not Belicheat.

So get used to me rockin the pro Cutler stories and stats, and bashing the ones that support Josh.


I just want Napoleon to focus on fixing the defense, and stop shredding the fanbase, the Denver community, and the franchise.

You know who has to put an end to this? The man who started it.

Enough of this crap. He has yet to coach a single game as a headcoach, and hes ignorant for trying to play hardline with Cutler after he looked right into the eyes of the Broncos fans, just like he did Cutlers and said:

"We don't want to trade Jay. We never did. He's our quarterback."

and then a few days ago McDaniels told Peter King of Sports Illustrated that he did pursue a deal with New England for Matt Cassel, but

"I think we were too late to the dance."

I trust him about as far as I can spit. He has made NO public comments to amend these statements, nor acknowledge his scheming.

Prior to this situation of McFuddles doing, what has Cutler done to warrant fans being willing to kick him to the curb for this?

I can understand CHIGGER fans screaming about his acts with Rivers and using that against him, but not Broncos fans.

All he has done is kick butt on the football field.

And if he stays here and we kick butt, and Im prayin he does, Im not going to be listed with those who once called him a bitch and a whiner or tried to kick him to the curb.

That at least will be plainly understood.



Im pro Cutler, cause Im pro Bronco.

[WARHORSE]

This is such flawed logic it's not even funny. What in the world do Manning's improvements in his career have to do with Jay Cutler?

Sorry about that. Its for others with flawed logic.

When it comes to intelligence and accuracy, Cutler isn't in the same league as Manning.

More flawed logic.......apparently, neither was Manning in his first five years.

Sure, Cutler has a stronger arm, and could become a great QB, but Manning is the best QB I have ever seen play and I do not think that Cutler will ever reach the accuracy or intelligence that Manning has.

Hes already in the top ten at his position in the league, and has thrown for over 9000 yards in two and a half seasons, thrown for 57 TDs and 37 INTs, and this leads you to think Cutler will not ever reach the accuracy or intelligence of Manning?

In my flawed logic, it leads me to think he will.

I could be wrong, but I don't see it happening.

Well hell, you could be wrong, why not get some draft picks instead......

People seriously need to STOP comparing Cutler to Elway and Manning and just look at him for who he is: A young gunslinger who has all the potential in the world but is a complete primma donna who seriously needs to grow up if he wants to be an elite player in this league. People who say "Oh well we shouldn't trade Cutler because Manning did this, or Elway did that" seriously make me want to punch a wall.

Start punching the wall dude.........at least you can give yer clown a rest.

I got some more flawed logic for ya.

Cutler has started 37 games in this league.

In Peytons first 37 games, he threw for 9176 yards, 60 TDs and 48 INTs.

Cutler, 57 TDs 37 INTs.

So for the sake of flawed logic, Peyton threw 3 more TDs, yet 11 more INTs.

Thats flawed logic at its finest.

My flawed logic doesnt tell me that Cutler is going to be the next Manning, but in the first 37 games?

He already is.



In my flawed logic, it doesnt mean he will turn into what Peyton has become, but it DOES tell me that in the last 25 yrs, no other QB has shown more evidence in his first three years to be like Peyton more than Jay Cutler. Not even Peyton Manning. (now THATS flawed isnt it?)


Taking in everything we know about Jay Cutler, youre not just an IDIOT if you trade him.


Youre a COMPLETE idiot.

[CoachChaz]

Why?

I dont want to be a fan of the dumbest franchise in history, but if thats what I end up being, at least Im going to be one of the guys who can say: I told ya so.


Jay wants to be a Bronco, everyone knows that.

Its just a matter of getting McPoleon to understand hes not Belicheat.

So get used to me rockin the pro Cutler stories and stats, and bashing the ones that support Josh.


I just want Napoleon to focus on fixing the defense, and stop shredding the fanbase, the Denver community, and the franchise.

You know who has to put an end to this? The man who started it.

Enough of this crap. He has yet to coach a single game as a headcoach, and hes ignorant for trying to play hardline with Cutler after he looked right into the eyes of the Broncos fans, just like he did Cutlers and said:

"We don't want to trade Jay. We never did. He's our quarterback."

and then a few days ago McDaniels told Peter King of Sports Illustrated that he did pursue a deal with New England for Matt Cassel, but

"I think we were too late to the dance."

I trust him about as far as I can spit. He has made NO public comments to amend these statements, nor acknowledge his scheming.

Prior to this situation of McFuddles doing, what has Cutler done to warrant fans being willing to kick him to the curb for this?

I can understand CHIGGER fans screaming about his acts with Rivers and using that against him, but not Broncos fans.

All he has done is kick butt on the football field.

And if he stays here and we kick butt, and Im prayin he does, Im not going to be listed with those who once called him a bitch and a whiner or tried to kick him to the curb.

That at least will be plainly understood.



Im pro Cutler, cause Im pro Bronco.

...and if we trade him and he falls on his face and we end up successful, will you then give this shit a rest? It is beyond old and worn out at this point

[claymore]

...and if we trade him and he falls on his face and we end up successful, will you then give this shit a rest? It is beyond old and worn out at this point

Your hatred of Cutlers hairstyle is unfounded.

[CoachChaz]

Your hatred of Cutlers hairstyle is unfounded.

When you link my name to the words Cutler and hate...I cannot and will not deny that his hair would fit that assessment.

[weazel]

For all of you spouting the 'what has Cutler done??'

Peyton started from day one.
Cutler the second half of year one.
Look at Mannings numbers through the first five years.

Does anyone really think Cutler has hit his peak?


Peyton Manning..........gunslinger.

1998- 26 TDs 28 INTs

1999- 26 TDs 15 INTs

2000- 33 TDs 15 INTs

2001- 26 TDs 23 INTs

2002- 27 TDs 19 INTs

--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

2003- 29 TDs 10 INTs

2004- 49 TDs 10 INTs

2005- 28 TDs 10 INTs

2006- 31 TDs 9 INTs

2007- 31 TDs 14 INTs

2008- 27 TDs 12 INTs

Trade Cutler:

DUMBEST MOVE IN HISTORY

I dont think there are many on here saying to trade Cutler. Cutler is the one that wants traded, what are you arguing?

[Shazam!]

Cutler is not Peyton Manning. Some true Broncos fans don't even think he's Jake Plummer, and yet he's compared to Manning by some. Classic.

[CoachChaz]

Cutler is not Peyton Manning. Some true Broncos fans don't even think he's Jake Plummer, and yet he's compared to Manning by some. Classic.

Does he have the skills, talent and teammates to be that good...yes. But I agree...until he does something other than throw for a ton of yards because he has to, or make the Pro-Bowl over more qualified players...then we CANNOT even put him in the same sentence with Manning.

[silkamilkamonico]

Cutler is not Peyton Manning. Some true Broncos fans don't even think he's Jake Plummer, and yet he's compared to Manning by some. Classic.

I think a comparison to Carson Palmer is much, much, more realistic, and Palmer actually went to the playoffs in his second full year of starting.

Where's Peyton Palmer been the last few years? Oh.

[Watchthemiddle]

Why?

I dont want to be a fan of the dumbest franchise in history, but if thats what I end up being, at least Im going to be one of the guys who can say: I told ya so.


.

I am sure people thought that when The Colts traded away Elway at the begninning of his career, but as we can see LIFE does still go on and you can find another if not better QB to follow in the traded QB's footsteps.

We will find another QB ..probably in the actual trade with CUtler when it goes down. I am sure if we wanted too, we can find a QB with smarts, intelligence, makes good decisions, and is a leader. HEck, I would even be happy if we got a good "manager" at the QB position. Atleast then he would be more inclined to make good decisions.

[TXBRONC]

I am sure people thought that when The Colts traded away Elway at the begninning of his career, but as we can see LIFE does still go on and you can find another if not better QB to follow in the traded QB's footsteps.

We will find another QB ..probably in the actual trade with CUtler when it goes down. I am sure if we wanted too, we can find a QB with smarts, intelligence, makes good decisions, and is a leader. HEck, I would even be happy if we got a good "manager" at the QB position. Atleast then he would be more inclined to make good decisions.


Yeah the Colts went from 1983 to 1998 before they found their next franchise quarterback. Those 15 years must have seemed to like a blink of an eye to them.

[Poet]

I think a comparison to Carson Palmer is much, much, more realistic, and Palmer actually went to the playoffs in his second full year of starting.

Where's Peyton Palmer been the last few years? Oh.

Been crushed by having no offensive line, no defense, playing in one of the best divisions in football.

[silkamilkamonico]

Been crushed by having no offensive line, no defense, playing in one of the best divisions in football.

You mean, even a QB as uber talented as Carson Cutler doesn't play well when his guys around his side of the ball aren't top notch?

In that case, trade Cutler, build a team!

[tomjonesrocks]

I don't want Cutler traded either. But Manning's ascent and continued improvement throughout the years aren't necessarily a predictor that Cutler will reach Manning's level. Cutler likely hasn't hit his peak, but whether or not he'll be one of the best ever is far from decided.

I agree it would be a moronic trade though and am really bracing for the worst as to what the Broncos will get in return. Blockbuster trades are a man's game and I don't think we have men running the show--we have boys.

[BroncoWave]

Start punching the wall dude.........at least you can give yer clown a rest.

I got some more flawed logic for ya.

Cutler has started 37 games in this league.

In Peytons first 37 games, he threw for 9176 yards, 60 TDs and 48 INTs.

Cutler, 57 TDs 37 INTs.

So for the sake of flawed logic, Peyton threw 3 more TDs, yet 11 more INTs.

Thats flawed logic at its finest.

My flawed logic doesnt tell me that Cutler is going to be the next Manning, but in the first 37 games?

He already is.



In my flawed logic, it doesnt mean he will turn into what Peyton has become, but it DOES tell me that in the last 25 yrs, no other QB has shown more evidence in his first three years to be like Peyton more than Jay Cutler. Not even Peyton Manning. (now THATS flawed isnt it?)


Taking in everything we know about Jay Cutler, youre not just an IDIOT if you trade him.


Youre a COMPLETE idiot.

No, it's ridiculously flawed logic. I don't care how Cutler and Manning's first 37 games compare. Manning as PROVED that he can be an elite, HOF caliber QB. All Cutler has done is show that he has the potential to possibly reach that level, and he's also shown that he has the potential to never improve if he doesn't improve his shitty attitude. And no, Cutler has done nothing to show me that his accuracy or intelligence are, or ever will be in the same league as Manning's.

You are basing your entire argument off the fact that statistically, Cutler had a slightly better first 37 games. Until Cutler PROVES that he can be as good as Manning, it's ridiculous to assume that he automatically will be based on what he's done so far.

And not many of us WANT to flat out trade him, but if he's going to be a little bitch about it and force his way out of town, there's not a whole lot the organization can do.

[BroncoNut]

War, you know i love you man but you just GOT TO LET IT GO. lmao

I agree. I expect better from War. I'm sorry, but this is shameful

[weazel]

heck, Manning doesnt even need an OC, he runs the game himself. I dont think Cutler can comb his own hair.

[Gamechanger]

Yeah the Colts went from 1983 to 1998 before they found their next franchise quarterback. Those 15 yearss must have seemed to like a blink of an eye to them.

Schlister, Pagel, Herrmann, George, Harbaugh, Justin.......oh yea some real franchise QBs :rolleyes:

[TXBRONC]

Schlister, Pagel, Herrmann, George, Harbaugh, Justin.......oh yea some real franchise QBs :rolleyes:

I'm sure it wasn't any picnic.

[Gamechanger]

I'm sure it wasn't any picnic.

more like a cerimonial suicide :tsk:

[Lonestar]

No, it's ridiculously flawed logic. I don't care how Cutler and Manning's first 37 games compare. Manning as PROVED that he can be an elite, HOF caliber QB. All Cutler has done is show that he has the potential to possibly reach that level, and he's also shown that he has the potential to never improve if he doesn't improve his shitty attitude. And no, Cutler has done nothing to show me that his accuracy or intelligence are, or ever will be in the same league as Manning's.

You are basing your entire argument off the fact that statistically, Cutler had a slightly better first 37 games. Until Cutler PROVES that he can be as good as Manning, it's ridiculous to assume that he automatically will be based on what he's done so far.

And not many of us WANT to flat out trade him, but if he's going to be a little bitch about it and force his way out of town, there's not a whole lot the organization can do.


many also forget that mannings first games in INDY were with a really lousy team..
and Jay did not quite have the same offensive issues that manning had..

[claymore]

many also forget that mannings first games in indy were with a really lousy team..
And jay did not quite have the same offensive issues that manning had..

lol.

[BroncoNut]

many also forget that mannings first games in INDY were with a really lousy team..
and Jay did not quite have the same offensive issues that manning had..

there was a vital part of the offense missing for Jay, that was in the run game.

[weazel]

if we are basing QB's off of their passing yardage, then Warren Moon has to be mentioned as one of the best. come on, stats dont lie.

[BroncoNut]

If Warren Moon was white, he'd just be another qb

[claymore]

if we are basing QB's off of their passing yardage, then Warren Moon has to be mentioned as one of the best. come on, stats dont lie.

Hes in the HOF right?

[Gamechanger]

many also forget that mannings first games in INDY were with a really lousy team..
and Jay did not quite have the same offensive issues that manning had..

they did? :rolleyes:

no oneb in my mind has ever forgot them years

before Manning we had been rebuilding after they traded Bert Jones

[underrated29]

Moon is one of my all time favorite QBs.

[weazel]

Hes in the HOF right?

I dont know, I dont pay attention to the HOF, its a f'n joke.

[BroncoNut]

I dont knwo, I dont pay attention to the HOF, its a f'n joke.

He's in both the NFL HoF and the Canadian League HoF.

[BroncoNut]

If the Hof is a joke, then the NFL is a joke

[weazel]

He's in both the NFL HoF and the Canadian League HoF.

at least they got THAT right.

[weazel]

If the Hof is a joke, then the NFL is a joke

why do you say that?

[claymore]

I dont know, I dont pay attention to the HOF, its a f'n joke.

He is, and people that go to the HOF are considered the best. So you were correct in saying that Warren moon had allot of yards and can be talked about as one of the best.

[BroncoNut]

why do you say that?

i don't know. I just wanted to sound profound I guess

[weazel]

i don't know. I just wanted to sound profound I guess

I can prove that the HOF is a joke with four words...

Randy Gradishar
Floyd Little

[CoachChaz]

Hes in the HOF right?

Yep...along with a host of other great QB's that got there without ever winning shit.

Dan Fouts
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Fran Tarkenton


Meanwhile, a few QB's that had limited talent, but were surrounded by quality teams have rings.

McMahon, Plunkett (twice), Williams, Rypien, Johnson, Dilfer, Stabler

[BroncoNut]

I can prove that the HOF is a joke with four words...

Randy Gradishar
Floyd Little

they will get in eventually

[claymore]

I can prove that the HOF is a joke with four words...

Randy Gradishar
Floyd Little

those are 2 names. Where are your 4 words?

[claymore]

Yep...along with a host of other great QB's that got there without ever winning shit.

Dan Fouts
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Fran Tarkenton


Meanwhile, a few QB's that had limited talent, but were surrounded by quality teams have rings.

McMahon, Plunkett (twice), Williams, Rypien, Johnson, Dilfer, Stabler

Dan Marino belongs in there.

[BroncoNut]

those are 2 names. Where are your 4 words?

the first names and the last names of 2 people= 4 words sfb

[weazel]

those are 2 names. Where are your 4 words?

:listen: 1. Randy 2. Gradishar 3. Floyd 4. Little

tomorrow is algebra, dont be late

[BroncoNut]

Dan Marino belongs in there.

Dan Marino had superior talent and a rocket arm

[CoachChaz]

Dan Marino belongs in there.

I'm not arguing that any of the QB's in the Hall shouldnt be there. I'm just saying that having HOF potential is not a pre-requisite for winning championships.

Troy Aikman is there because of it. Takes his career stats and pretend he never won a SB. Would he be in the Hall?

[claymore]

I'm not arguing that any of the QB's in the Hall shouldnt be there. I'm just saying that having HOF potential is not a pre-requisite for winning championships.

Troy Aikman is there because of it. Takes his career stats and pretend he never won a SB. Would he be in the Hall?

Im not arguing for any of those guys. There are allot of folks in there now that I dont think should be there.....

Im not going to say Jays a HOF Lock etc..... But I think if He can be committed to this franchise and we can be committed to him, it could be special.

[claymore]

:listen: 1. Randy 2. Gradishar 3. Floyd 4. Little

tomorrow is algebra, dont be late

There is strong arguments against both those guys. We are Biased. Shannon Sharpe should be in before both of those guys.

[weazel]

There is strong arguments against both those guys. We are Biased. Shannon Sharpe should be in before both of those guys.

if you add Shannon, that would make 6 words. Just trying to help you out Clay! :beer:

[G_Money]

Yep...along with a host of other great QB's that got there without ever winning shit.

Dan Fouts
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Fran Tarkenton


Meanwhile, a few QB's that had limited talent, but were surrounded by quality teams have rings.

McMahon, Plunkett (twice), Williams, Rypien, Johnson, Dilfer, Stabler

Yeah, but the odds are against the limited-talent QBs.

Again, Super Bowl winning QBs the quarter-century:


Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XIX - HOF
Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - SB XX potential greatest defense of all time
Phil Simms, New York Giants - SB XXI great defense, HOF head coach
Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - SB XXII great defense, HOF head coach
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIII - HOF
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIV - HOF
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV great defense, HOF head coach
Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI great defense, HOF head coach
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVII - HOF
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII - HOF
Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX - HOF
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX - HOF
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI - HOF
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII - HOF
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII - HOF
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV - HOF candidate and multiple league MVP
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV potential greatest defense of all time
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI - HOF candidate
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII incredible defense
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII - HOF candidate
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX - HOF candidate
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL - Incredible defense, building HOF resume
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI - HOF candidate
Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII - Incredible defense, #1 draft pick
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII - Incredible defense, building HOF resume

Of the last 25 world champions, the ones that won without great QBs:

McMahon's Bears - had potentially the greatest defense ever
Simms' and Hostetler's Giants - HOF head coach, Top-2 defense both years.
Williams' and Rypien's Redskins - HOF head coach, #6 scoring D in 87, top 3 in yards and points in 91.
Dilfer's Ravens - had potentially the greatest defense ever
Johnson's Bucs - Best defense in the league in every category, pretty much
Manning's Giants - the one argument on here for a team coming together - gelling, if you will - at the right time and making the most out of a decent team.

So...only 33% of the SB champs of the last quarter century did not have a HOF (or HOF-candidate) QB as their leader.

All of those - ALL - had absolutely world-class defenses, in many cases all-time defenses, except for the 2007 Giants (and maybe the 87 Skins). The Giants and Skins defenses became world-beaters in the playoffs though, and those championships came on the backs of some phenomenal defensive playoff performances.

Nothing on this list says a HOF QB will win you a title without a defense - those Cowboys teams, Niners teams, Pats teams, Steelers teams all ALSO had outstanding defenses. As Coach pointed out, the Foutses and Kellys of the world didn't get that ultimate ring, no matter how good they were.

But if you're gonna try to win a title without a great QB, then you'd better have a Top-2 defense and preferrably a HOF coach while you're at it.

There's no rule that says Cutler has to be our potentially-great QB, or even that he can be.

But if he isn't, we'd better find one, or we're going into the teeth of long odds, because the only thing harder to find around here than a replacement for our HOF QB has been a great defense. :rolleyes:

~G

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Cleo Lemon, he is our answer.

[turftoad]

Cleo Lemon, he is our answer.

Don't give Josh any ideas. He probably thinks he could turn Cleo into a Pro Bowler. :D

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Don't give Josh any ideas. He probably thinks he could turn Cleo into a Pro Bowler. :D

Why do you think we worked out Pat White, (QB/WR - West Virginia) out privately yesterday? We will be going Wildcat next year. Just you wait and see. He is our first-round guy. Pat White. You heard it here first. :lol:

[G_Money]

Well that would be interesting.

We can just rotate QBs between Eddie Royal and Pat White, and whichever one isn't under center can be running pass routes.

Total victory.

~G

[BroncoNut]

Well that would be interesting.

We can just rotate QBs between Eddie Royal and Pat White, and whichever one isn't under center can be running pass routes.

Total victory.

~G



I see your point, but you don't have to be such a sarcastic snob about it.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I see your point, but you don't have to be such a sarcastic snob about it.

You don't know how hurt I am right now. Go get me a cup or plunger from KC, I'll cover this up for good.

[BroncoNut]

yeah, no kidding. cover up the problem until someone who can dispose of it comes along to do so.

[bcbronc]

Peyton was a .500 starter his 1st 2 years as a QB, just to note that

give Cutler time, yea he's coming off as a pouter but I think this can easily be resolved

Peyton came to a team good enough the season before to earn the #1 overall pick. he also started game 1/season 1.

Jay came to a team coming off an AFCCG and had half a season or so to get used to the NFL. sure, only half a season, but when we are talking about a player's first 37 games, those first 8-10 games, or whatever it was, make a difference.

I guess it goes to show, Manning improved his team from the get go, while the Broncos have actually gotten worse with Cutler at the helm. obviously not all, or even mostly, because of Jay's play, but hey, I wasn't the one that brought up Manning.


if you add Shannon, that would make 6 words. Just trying to help you out Clay! :beer:

no, if you add Shannon, it would make it 5 words. :welcome:


Why do you think we worked out Pat White, (QB/WR - West Virginia) out privately yesterday? We will be going Wildcat next year. Just you wait and see. He is our first-round guy. Pat White. You heard it here first. :lol:

you probably shouldn't put that in your blog. :salute:

[WARHORSE]

...and if we trade him and he falls on his face and we end up successful, will you then give this shit a rest? It is beyond old and worn out at this point

I got a suggestion thats going to really help you.

Dont read my posts.

What are you, topic dictator?

You decide when somethings old and worn out?

Not for me, Im old enough to decide for myself.

Take your discussion into the threads that talk about what you want to discuss, and enjoy.:tsk:

[CoachChaz]

It's become very obvious that I'm not the only one that feels this way. Just the only one to call you out

[Rex]

Peyton Culter.

LMFAO.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I laughed too. More like Jay Brimley or Wilford Cutler.

[claymore]

Peyton Culter.

LMFAO.

That most certainly isnt funny.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Yes it is so.

[Rex]

I love Warhorse. LOVE him.

But slapping Peyton in front of Cutler is like putting PHD behind Claymore.

[WARHORSE]

No, it's ridiculously flawed logic. I don't care how Cutler and Manning's first 37 games compare. Manning as PROVED that he can be an elite, HOF caliber QB. All Cutler has done is show that he has the potential to possibly reach that level, and he's also shown that he has the potential to never improve if he doesn't improve his shitty attitude. And no, Cutler has done nothing to show me that his accuracy or intelligence are, or ever will be in the same league as Manning's.

You are basing your entire argument off the fact that statistically, Cutler had a slightly better first 37 games. Until Cutler PROVES that he can be as good as Manning, it's ridiculous to assume that he automatically will be based on what he's done so far.

And not many of us WANT to flat out trade him, but if he's going to be a little bitch about it and force his way out of town, there's not a whole lot the organization can do.

There you go quoting yourself to yourself. I never said it means hes going to end up being Manning. Try to read the post s.....l....o....w....e....r.

And frankly, he isnt the one being a bitch.

In the words of Shannon Sharpe, its a BUSINESS when the organization wants to trade a player, but its disgruntledness or being a malcontent if a player wants to be traded.

Im the one saying get rid of McClown if he doesnt make it right.

Give Cutler a contract if thats what it takes to help him see hes the man here, hell, you were just going to give CASSELL 14.7 million for THIS year.

McDaniels is an idiot NOW, and until he makes amends, hes just a dumb coach with a stick up his rear who cant learn from his mistakes, WHICH ARE BEING PLAYED OUT ACROSS THE NATION in a media hail storm.

[BroncoNut]

I love Warhorse. LOVE him.

But slapping Peyton in front of Cutler is like putting PHD behind Claymore.

what do you mean? that peyton is more than cutler or the other way around? You hate cutler don't you?

[claymore]

I love Warhorse. LOVE him.

But slapping Peyton in front of Cutler is like putting PHD behind Claymore.

YOU refer to me as Mr. More from now on.

[Rex]

what do you mean? that peyton is more than cutler or the other way around? You hate cutler don't you?

Absolutely not.

I hope he stays here. However, the level of praise and undying devotion to to him borders on lunacy and is only comparable to Obamamania.

Ya know what I'm sayin Nut Dawg?

[Rex]

YOU refer to me as Mr. More from now on.

How about Mr. Dipshit, PhD. (in Dick Studies)

[WARHORSE]

Yep...along with a host of other great QB's that got there without ever winning shit.

Dan Fouts
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Fran Tarkenton


Meanwhile, a few QB's that had limited talent, but were surrounded by quality teams have rings.

McMahon, Plunkett (twice), Williams, Rypien, Johnson, Dilfer, Stabler


One year wonders.

See any multiple SB winners with Williams, Rypien, Johnson, Dilfer, Stabler etc?

[BroncoNut]

Absolutely not.

I hope he stays here. However, the level of praise and undying devotion to to him borders on lunacy and is only comparable to Obamamania.

Ya know what I'm sayin Nut Dawg?

I do , and I think you make a very good point. I feel about the same way on him.

[Rex]

I do , and I think you make a very good point. I feel about the same way on him.

I am so glad we are friends again.


May I call you this weekend from Las Vegas?

[BroncoJoe]

I love Warhorse. LOVE him.

But slapping Peyton in front of Cutler is like putting PHD behind Claymore.

That made me LOL.

[claymore]

How about Mr. Dipshit, PhD. (in Dick Studies)
Thatis pretty funny.

That made me LOL.

I hope you shit your pants the next time you wear white pants.

[CoachChaz]

I love Warhorse. LOVE him.

But slapping Peyton in front of Cutler is like putting PHD behind Claymore.

I guess that's my disappointment (for lack of a better word). Warhorse is awesome. Everybody loves the Big Kahuna, but it just seems this whole debacle has made him quite cynical and jaded and I guess I've just always loved his parity so much that when he posts some of the things he does...it kind of knocks the prince off of the trusty white steed for me a little.

My heart is breaking

[Rex]

I guess that's my disappointment (for lack of a better word). Warhorse is awesome. Everybody loves the Big Kahuna, but it just seems this whole debacle has made him quite cynical and jaded and I guess I've just always loved his parity so much that when he posts some of the things he does...it kind of knocks the prince off of the trusty white steed for me a little.

My heart is breaking

Not to mention what has happened to Claymore. He is barking at cars now when they drive by his house.

I hope Scarface does not stab himself in the neck if his boi Cutler is traded.

[BroncoJoe]

Thatis pretty funny.


I hope you shit your pants the next time you wear white pants.

I never wear white pants or underwear for that exact reason.

[BroncoJoe]

Not to mention what has happened to Claymore. He is barking at cars now when they drive by his house.

I hope Scarface does not stab himself in the neck if his boi Cutler is traded.

Scar won't be able to have a hardon for years.

[WARHORSE]

Peyton came to a team good enough the season before to earn the #1 overall pick. he also started game 1/season 1.

Jay came to a team coming off an AFCCG and had half a season or so to get used to the NFL. sure, only half a season, but when we are talking about a player's first 37 games, those first 8-10 games, or whatever it was, make a difference.

I guess it goes to show, Manning improved his team from the get go, while the Broncos have actually gotten worse with Cutler at the helm. obviously not all, or even mostly, because of Jay's play, but hey, I wasn't the one that brought up Manning.



no, if you add Shannon, it would make it 5 words. :welcome:



you probably shouldn't put that in your blog. :salute:


Peyton was 3-13 his first year. Think the aquisition of Dwight Freeney helped them at all that year?

After all, he tore up his rookie year. HMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm..........

[claymore]

I never wear white pants or underwear for that exact reason.

What are you wearing now? :eyebrows:

[Simple Jaded]

I'm still amused by people that bring up the Broncos record with Cutler as a starter as if that's the definitive end of the discussion. Morons......

[BroncoNut]

I guess that's my disappointment (for lack of a better word). Warhorse is awesome. Everybody loves the Big Kahuna, but it just seems this whole debacle has made him quite cynical and jaded and I guess I've just always loved his parity so much that when he posts some of the things he does...it kind of knocks the prince off of the trusty white steed for me a little.

My heart is breaking


as a young lad, my dad once told me that all men fall from grace. Boy, he wasn't kidding.

[Rex]

I'm still amused by people that bring up the Broncos record with Cutler as a starter as if that's the definitive end of the discussion. Morons......

20 ints and redzone turnovers are though.

Idiot.:)

[BroncoNut]

I never wear white pants or underwear for that exact reason.

I wear camaflogue underwear myself, for that reason.

[CoachChaz]

Not to mention what has happened to Claymore. He is barking at cars now when they drive by his house.

I hope Scarface does not stab himself in the neck if his boi Cutler is traded.

I thought I was the only one that was taken back a little when Clay suddenly decided he knew something about football operations

I have Scar in my dead pool

[claymore]

Peyton was 3-13 his first year. Think the aquisition of Dwight Freeney helped them at all that year?

After all, he tore up his rookie year. HMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm..........

Dont listen to these guys keep up the fight. I gave up.

[Rex]

I thought I was the only one that was taken back a little when Clay suddenly decided he knew something about football operations

Let's be clear,

Clay knows 2 things:

1. Drinking
2. Strippers

I would not take his advice on anything not directly related to those 2 subjects.

[WARHORSE]

It's become very obvious that I'm not the only one that feels this way. Just the only one to call you out


So what does that make you?

The forum tough guy?

You called me out..........take yer crap somewhere else.

Cant read?


Get the hell out of here if you dont like what Im sayin and take your cronies with you.

[BroncoJoe]

Peyton was 3-13 his first year. Think the aquisition of Dwight Freeney helped them at all that year?

After all, he tore up his rookie year. HMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm..........

He also went to a team with the 1st pick in the draft.

Cutler? A team playing for the AFC Championship.

[WARHORSE]

I love Warhorse. LOVE him.

But slapping Peyton in front of Cutler is like putting PHD behind Claymore.


I thought you'd appreciate that.


It digs under the skin when ya read it...........:D

[claymore]

He also went to a team with the 1st pick in the draft.

Cutler? A team playing for the AFC Championship.

No he went in for a QB that got benched. Us getting to the AFCC was overachieving.

[CoachChaz]

So what does that make you?

The forum tough guy?

You called me out..........take yer crap somewhere else.

Cant read?


Get the hell out of here if you dont like what Im sayin and take your cronies with you.

Yeah, I'm the tough guy. I think I explained why I said what I said and if it isnt good enough...I apologize. As for my "cronies"...they love you too, bro.

But, if you want a place where only people that share your opinion exist, might I suggest partaking in the Aryan Brotherhood

[BroncoJoe]

No he went in for a QB that got benched. Us getting to the AFCC was overachieving.

We had a descent team that year. I still think Shanahan pulled the trigger on playing Cutler too early.

[Simple Jaded]

20 ints and redzone turnovers are though.

Idiot.:)

And all those Int's came on plays that started in the redzone?......

[Rex]

And all those Int's came on plays that started in the redzone?......

No. I didnt say that.

[claymore]

We had a descent team that year. I still think Shanahan pulled the trigger on playing Cutler too early.

Plummer has never had to compete for his position and he expolded into a stinky hairy hippie mess.

[weazel]

I love Warhorse. LOVE him.

But slapping Peyton in front of Cutler is like putting PHD behind Claymore.

oh no you di'nt

LOL

[BroncoNut]

We had a descent team that year. I still think Shanahan pulled the trigger on playing Cutler too early.

uhh.. do you mean decent? descent means to go downward.

idiout

[CoachChaz]

uhh.. do you mean decent? descent means to go downward.

idiout

A Freudian slip that apparently came true

[BroncoJoe]

uhh.. do you mean decent? descent means to go downward.

idiout

Learn how to spell idiot, bunny lover.

[BroncoNut]

Learn how to spell idiot, bunny lover.

figures you would know the correct spelling of the word. I bet it was pretty much your first name for a good part of your life.

[claymore]

figures you would know the correct spelling of the word. I bet it was pretty much your first name for a good part of your life.

School him Nut.

[Simple Jaded]

No. I didnt say that.

What did you say? As long as we're going to let statistics form our opinion we might as well know what they're all about.

He didn't have 20 TurnOvers on plays starting from the opponents 19 to one yard line did he? I wonder if some of those TO's might be an Int he threw from the 45 or something that ended up in the redzone.......

[Rex]

School him Nut.

F-tard trailer park pimp.

[BroncoJoe]

figures you would know the correct spelling of the word. I bet it was pretty much your first name for a good part of your life.

As you would know the correct spelling of decent.

Oh, wait...

Damnit.

[Timmy!]

I think I will have tacos for diner.

[claymore]

F-tard trailer park pimp.

I assume the F is for F-150. Thanks Bro.

[weazel]

I just went to pizza hut and ate some pizza-like substance

[BroncoNut]

I think I will have tacos for diner.


I just went to pizza hut and ate some pizza-like substance

Nobody. And I mean NOBODY will be dumping in Warhorse's thread.

Even though it does suck

[claymore]

WAR War.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Bill Devaroe make DEM taCOs afterw athicn the CHinamen Fly around in Crouching Tycoon Hideen Drago0n.

[Timmy!]

Nobody. And I mean NOBODY will be dumping in Warhorse's thread.

Even though it does suck

Nut, have you ever slaughtered a bunny with a tire iron?

[Rex]

Hey Dream.....eff you.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Shut up dude, I am so sick and tired of your bullshit. I am seeing a counselor now because of what you have done to me.

[Rex]

Shut up dude, I am so sick and tired of your bullshit. I am seeing a counselor now because of what you have done to me.

You unloaded on me because I didnt respond right away.

Go eff yourself you self centered dildo.

[WARHORSE]

Yeah, I'm the tough guy. I think I explained why I said what I said and if it isnt good enough...I apologize. As for my "cronies"...they love you too, bro.

But, if you want a place where only people that share your opinion exist, might I suggest partaking in the Aryan Brotherhood
Not a good example.......



I cant believe this.

Im trying to be a pain about this, and Im getting love bombed.

How am I supposed to bang the drum when my fellow Broncos fans are holdin their ears? Im tired of bangin anyway.


sigh.

In Hawaii...........this is where we say- Kill fight already.



I have been over the top on this, but when you wait TEN YEARS for a QB that has a fire in his belly to kick butt, and youre hyped for the seasons coming cause you know you have the most important piece in place, and then a 31 yr old comes in and does this.................!!!!!!


I'll say one more thing and thats this: What is Bill Belichicks record as a head coach without Tom Brady?


Simple as that. I dont give a rip about McDaniels. My hope is that hes a FAR better coach than hes shown to be a personel manager. I dont mind that he made a mistake........just amend it and move on. Expect the same learning ability of yourself as you do the players.

Mangini tried the whole Belichick player/coach philosophy in NY. You gotta win first imo. Then you can call people out like Jay Cutler.

I'll cool the drum banging, but Im pissed about this whole scenario.

:tsk:


Sorry to all of those who have been ruffled for my bad behavior........I give to you in apology...........a WARHORSE love slap in the back of the head.

:D

ahem........er.......you know what I mean.:beer:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

You unloaded on me because I didnt respond right away.

Go eff yourself you self centered dildo.

Been trying to all day but my friend Kelly walked in (had two doors locked) and the other roomie here (Emily) has been creepin'. A little ghun shy.

[CoachChaz]

I cant believe this.

Im trying to be a pain about this, and Im getting love bombed.

How am I supposed to bang the drum when my fellow Broncos fans are holdin their ears? Im tired of bangin anyway.


sigh.

In Hawaii...........this is where we say- Kill fight already.



I have been over the top on this, but when you wait TEN YEARS for a QB that has a fire in his belly to kick butt, and youre hyped for the seasons coming cause you know you have the most important piece in place, and then a 31 yr old comes in and does this.................!!!!!!


I'll say one more thing and thats this: What is Bill Belichicks record as a head coach without Tom Brady?


Simple as that. I dont give a rip about McDaniels. My hope is that hes a FAR better coach than hes shown to be a personel manager. I dont mind that he made a mistake........just amend it and move on. Expect the same learning ability of yourself as you do the players.

Mangini tried the whole Belichick player/coach philosophy in NY. You gotta win first imo. Then you can call people out like Jay Cutler.

I'll cool the drum banging, but Im pissed about this whole scenario.

:tsk:


Sorry to all of those who have been ruffled for my bad behavior........I give to you in apology...........a WARHORSE love slap in the back of the head.

:D

ahem........er.......you know what I mean.:beer:

There's my Big Kahuna!!!

We're all pissed bro. We can weather the storm together as fans or choose a side and throw people under the bus. I prefer to stay cool with my Broncos Nation.

[WARHORSE]

There's my Big Kahuna!!!

We're all pissed bro. We can weather the storm together as fans or choose a side and throw people under the bus. I prefer to stay cool with my Broncos Nation.


Im still kickin the dirt........and I actually like seeing people roll under the bus sometimes...........but not good people.:salute:


Sorry dude.

[BroncoNut]

Nut, have you ever slaughtered a bunny with a tire iron?

no. I've knocked them out with a wrench before though. most anything will do

[Medford Bronco]

The main difference is that Peyton made the playoffs early in his career. He ELEVATED his team there. Cutler has not.

[Poet]

I'll take a bet that Cutler's career doesn't add up to Manning's. This really is one of the silliest comparisons I have ever read.

[Medford Bronco]

I'll take a bet that Cutler's career doesn't add up to Manning's. This really is one of the silliest comparisons I have ever read.

Its like comparing Jeff George to Elway or Steve Young when they struggled early in their careers.

I think too much is made of STATS. This is not baseball, its about scoring points, and winning and even at a young age Elway was good at that and so was Peyton. Yes Peyton did not have immediate playoff success but once he did he gradually got better and did win a Super Bowl, much to a lot of other people chagrin.

If I hear about how we were a top 5 offense again I want to puke.

Top 16 in scoring offense. SDs offense was lower, yardage wise but points wise they were much higher than Denvers.

Yaradge rankings are overrated.
The ones that matter the most are defensive ranking by pts and offensive ranking by points and turnover differential.

I feel like a lot of people want to rank Qbs by Qb ratings or stats, like they were playing Madden, not the intanglilbes that great QBs like Manning, Elway, Brady, Montana etc all possess. Its what you eyes tell you, not stats.

Interesting tidbit.

Jay Cutler has a career QB rating of 87.1
Brian Griese has a career QB rating of 82.7
John Elway has a career QB rating of 79.9

Is Cutler better than Elway. If you think that you do not understand the game of football at all. He is however better than Griese.

Is Griese better than Elway due to Qb rating, absolutely not.

how about their career records

Cutler 17-20
Griese 42-36
Elway 148-82-1

That is what matters.

[WARHORSE]

Its like comparing Jeff George to Elway or Steve Young when they struggled early in their careers.

I think too much is made of STATS. This is not baseball, its about scoring points, and winning and even at a young age Elway was good at that and so was Peyton. Yes Peyton did not have immediate playoff success but once he did he gradually got better and did win a Super Bowl, much to a lot of other people chagrin.

If I hear about how we were a top 5 offense again I want to puke.

Top 16 in scoring offense. SDs offense was lower, yardage wise but points wise they were much higher than Denvers.

Yaradge rankings are overrated.
The ones that matter the most are defensive ranking by pts and offensive ranking by points and turnover differential.

I feel like a lot of people want to rank Qbs by Qb ratings or stats, like they were playing Madden, not the intanglilbes that great QBs like Manning, Elway, Brady, Montana etc all possess. Its what you eyes tell you, not stats.

Interesting tidbit.

Jay Cutler has a career QB rating of 87.1
Brian Griese has a career QB rating of 82.7
John Elway has a career QB rating of 79.9

Is Cutler better than Elway. If you think that you do not understand the game of football at all. He is however better than Griese.

Is Griese better than Elway due to Qb rating, absolutely not.

how about their career records

Cutler 17-20
Griese 42-36
Elway 148-82-1

That is what matters.


Point is, even if Cutler doesnt become any better, with a great running game and good defense, we could win..................we had a very tough schedule last year, and we went 8-8 with the worst defense in the league. THE WORST.

But if Cutler has untapped juice in there, and hes still yet to come into his full potential in the next few years..............you TRADED this guy?

DUMB, with a shotgun butt held to the nads and a trigger pull.:tsk:

AND, we're spending 14 million on a clown to come in and play at best better game manager, when we could spend that on the defense????

Hello????

[Shazam!]

War, Jake, the prince of QB mediocrity, won with a great running game and good defense. Many QBs do.

That 'clown' you speak of may fit better in the spread than Cutler. Fact.

Jay has talent. Loads of it. But he is not the be all end all of the Broncos. I want him here. I do. But the franchise will not collapse without him.

[Shazam!]

I really hate how people treat Cassel like garbage. A third string QB through his college career, was sought after by Tenn and NE in the Draft, plays an entire season replacing a future HoF QB without a singe college start and people act like he is a piece of trash. Cassel can be great, I hope not to great because if he's a smash in KC we'll all be first hand witnesses.

[WARHORSE]

War, Jake, the prince of QB mediocrity, won with a great running game and good defense. Many QBs do.

That 'clown' you speak of may fit better in the spread than Cutler. Fact.

Spending 14 million on the 'may' part of your equation is the idiotic part of McDaniels notion to trade Cutler for Cassell. What happens if Cassell doesnt pan out? You spend 14 mill on him, and then next year you either have to spend more than that, or sign him to a long term deal.........or cut him.

With Cutler, hes ALREADY under contract for three more years. Any lightbulbs coming on here?

Jay has talent. Loads of it. But he is not the be all end all of the Broncos. I want him here. I do. But the franchise will not collapse without him.


I never said the org will collapse. I just said it will be known as the dumbest franchise in the league. Bar none.

And Im sticking to that, especially if both Cassell and Cutler prove to be worthy QBs.

[WARHORSE]

I really hate how people treat Cassel like garbage. A third string QB through his college career, was sought after by Tenn and NE in the Draft, plays an entire season replacing a future HoF QB without a singe college start and people act like he is a piece of trash. Cassel can be great, I hope not to great because if he's a smash in KC we'll all be first hand witnesses.



Cassell is a red clown now. Get used to it cause youre gonna hear it alot here.

[Shazam!]

I think Cassel is going to be a star. I hope he doesn't burn Denver too much in the future.

[WARHORSE]

I think Cassel is going to be a star. I hope he doesn't burn Denver too much in the future.


You should move to Arrowhead.

You'll fit in perfectly.

[slim]

I'll take a bet that Cutler's career doesn't add up to Manning's. This really is one of the silliest comparisons I have ever read.

Yeah, pretty much.

I think Jeff George is a better comparison.

[Shazam!]

Because I don't think Cutler is the be all end all of QBs? Get over yourself.

Did you move to Detroit when Denver didn't make the move for Calvin Johnson when you were sweating him daily? No...

[WARHORSE]

Because I don't think Cutler is the be all end all of QBs? Get over yourself.

Did I say that? Try to stick to the conversation. I said it cause youre huggin Cassells nuts. That help?

Did you move to Detroit when Denver didn't make the move for Calvin Johnson when you were sweating him daily? No...




I could give a rip about Calvin. When I spoke about him he was an undrafted rookie. Get yer crap straight.

Now hes with Detroit, and I could give a rip.

[Shazam!]

I'm just being fair. Everyone says 'Cassel sucks and he's trash' and I don't see a reason for that, except out of personal dislike after this whole fiasco. I think he did some great things in 2008 after not even starting in College. As i said 100 times in the many duplicate threads about the same subject, I want Cutler and don;t want to start over at QB and want the best thing for the Broncos.

[Gamechanger]

the thing you must put in perspective, however, Cassel was put in a good situation in NE good HB by committe rushing attack, stellar defense and great recievers in their own respect, iif you can't win with those pieces set for you then you don't deserve to be a starter

now do I think KC is better off with Cassel? yes, but they got to be patient and not look for quick results, i think this is going to be another Aaron Rodgers case with Cassel as a full time starter, the offense SHOULD do some damage and he'll have some nice stats but the defense will let him down many times

Cutler should honestly stay where his is also and find a resoloution with Bowlen and McDudleyDoRight (didn't see anyone else do it, couldn't resist) because cool heads will prevail in this heated situation, as I said for KC, be patient and not look for quick results

JMO though

[BroncoWave]

There you go quoting yourself to yourself. I never said it means hes going to end up being Manning. Try to read the post s.....l....o....w....e....r.

And frankly, he isnt the one being a bitch.

In the words of Shannon Sharpe, its a BUSINESS when the organization wants to trade a player, but its disgruntledness or being a malcontent if a player wants to be traded.

Im the one saying get rid of McClown if he doesnt make it right.

Give Cutler a contract if thats what it takes to help him see hes the man here, hell, you were just going to give CASSELL 14.7 million for THIS year.

McDaniels is an idiot NOW, and until he makes amends, hes just a dumb coach with a stick up his rear who cant learn from his mistakes, WHICH ARE BEING PLAYED OUT ACROSS THE NATION in a media hail storm.

Then what the hell is your point? What Manning did early in his career has nothing to do with what Cutler is going to do in his. Peyton is an entirely different QB than Cutler. Manning has shown more accuracy and intelligence in his career than Cutler will ever dream of having IMO. If you want to defend Cutler, that's fine, but this argument is super weak.

[WARHORSE]

I'm just being fair. Everyone says 'Cassel sucks and he's trash' and I don't see a reason for that, except out of personal dislike after this whole fiasco. I think he did some great things in 2008 after not even starting in College. As i said 100 times in the many duplicate threads about the same subject, I want Cutler and don;t want to start over at QB and want the best thing for the Broncos.


Well, I can see that and I will admit that you can count me as one of those who can give a rip about Cassell right now........especially since hes a red turd now.

Not sayin he wont prove to be more than a one year wonder, and also admitting that what New England did with him under center, along with his part of it was impressive.

But to put it into perpective, Tom Brady and company just went 19-0 year before. Now, although we ALL know that Tom right now is the most proven QB in the league, and is in a league of his own. But how much of the 19-0 credit goes to the rest of the players and coaches?

Go look at who they played, and how they won each game.

That 11-5 record under Cassell is slightly skewed if youre lookin at it as proof that Cassell is a franchise QB.

Heck, in the last game, I think he threw about 8 passes. They ran the ball 44+ times.

What did he do?

Opposing defenses scored accordingly in their wins:

10 pts

10 pts

21 pts

7 pts

16 pts

10 pts

34 pts

28 pts

21 pts

26 pts

7 pts

0 pts

Thats 6 games in which the NEngland defense held the opponent to 10 pts or less.

So how much is Matt Cassell, and how much is it a very well oiled New England team?

[Gamechanger]

Well, I can see that and I will admit that you can count me as one of those who can give a rip about Cassell right now........especially since hes a red turd now.

Not sayin he wont prove to be more than a one year wonder, and also admitting that what New England did with him under center, along with his part of it was impressive.

But to put it into perpective, Tom Brady and company just went 19-0 year before. Now, although we ALL know that Tom right now is the most proven QB in the league, and is in a league of his own. But how much of the 19-0 credit goes to the rest of the players and coaches?

Go look at who they played, and how they won each game.

That 11-5 record under Cassell is slightly skewed if youre lookin at it as proof that Cassell is a franchise QB.

Heck, in the last game, I think he threw about 8 passes. They ran the ball 44+ times.

What did he do?

Opposing defenses scored accordingly in their wins:

10 pts

10 pts

21 pts

7 pts

16 pts

10 pts

34 pts

28 pts

21 pts

26 pts

7 pts

0 pts

Thats 6 games in which the NEngland defense held the opponent to 10 pts or less.

So how much is Matt Cassell, and how much is it a very well oiled New England team?

stop the tape, when did Cassel get that notion of a franchise QB?

[TXBRONC]

War, Jake, the prince of QB mediocrity, won with a great running game and good defense. Many QBs do.

That 'clown' you speak of may fit better in the spread than Cutler. Fact.

Jay has talent. Loads of it. But he is not the be all end all of the Broncos. I want him here. I do. But the franchise will not collapse without him.

I heard a lot people say McDaniels offense would be an even better fit than what he's been in the past few years.

[Shazam!]

Cassel never started a single game in college. He was a perennial backup. How many NFL starters had no college experience in-game? Regardless of scenario about how good the Patriots was, they lost their star QB, everyone (including Broncos fans) left them for dead. He performed beyond admirably and they were at the cusp of the Playoffs.

I'm not saying he's Joe Montana, and I'm not even saying he's better than Cutler. Despite the fact he plays for the mortal enemy, everyone here paints him as a garbage QB. I don't think it's true. He led them a few times with come from behind wins. He had a few games that were pretty impressive.

[Gamechanger]

Cassel never started a single game in college. He was a perennial backup. How many NFL starters had no college experience in-game? Regardless of scenario about how good the Patriots was, they lost their star QB, everyone (including Broncos fans) left them for dead. He performed beyond admirably and they were at the cusp of the Playoffs.

I'm not saying he's Joe Montana, and I'm not even saying he's better than Cutler. Despite the fact he plays for the mortal enemy, everyone here paints him as a garbage QB. I don't think it's true. He led them a few times with come from behind wins. He had a few games that were pretty impressive.

well his coming out party WAS against you guys


just sayin....

[TXBRONC]

the thing you must put in perspective, however, Cassel was put in a good situation in NE good HB by committe rushing attack, stellar defense and great recievers in their own respect, iif you can't win with those pieces set for you then you don't deserve to be a starter

now do I think KC is better off with Cassel? yes, but they got to be patient and not look for quick results, i think this is going to be another Aaron Rodgers case with Cassel as a full time starter, the offense SHOULD do some damage and he'll have some nice stats but the defense will let him down many times

Cutler should honestly stay where his is also and find a resolution with Bowlen and McDudleyDoRight (didn't see anyone else do it, couldn't resist) because cool heads will prevail in this heated situation, as I said for KC, be patient and not look for quick results

JMO though

Absolutely, Cassel was put in a very good situation, he didn't have the burden of having to overcome a horrible defense and special teams last year with the Patriots. I'm curious to see how Cassel handles himself if the Chiefs defense doesn't play well.

[Poet]

Absolutely, Cassel was put in a very good situation, he didn't have the burden of having to overcome a horrible defense and special teams last year with the Patriots. I'm curious to see how Cassel handles himself if the Chiefs defense doesn't play well.

But to be fair to him, and note that I would be betting on him failing in KC for a variety of reasons, he was rarely asked to be the game winner until the last fourth of the season or so.

Look at his game logs, he had production spikes, but to be fair he did an amazing job for his situation.
He was an excellent risk for the Chiefs to take - if he fails in KC they gave up nothing that would be crippling, and if he does work out they got a quality QB, or even a franchise type guy for a second rounder.

The Chiefs are on the up and up.

[Medford Bronco]

But to be fair to him, and note that I would be betting on him failing in KC for a variety of reasons, he was rarely asked to be the game winner until the last fourth of the season or so.

Look at his game logs, he had production spikes, but to be fair he did an amazing job for his situation.
He was an excellent risk for the Chiefs to take - if he fails in KC they gave up nothing that would be crippling, and if he does work out they got a quality QB, or even a franchise type guy for a second rounder.

The Chiefs are on the up and up.

Great logical post King:beer:

[weazel]

Great logical post King:beer:

Cutler > Cassel, but Cutler doesnt want to be here. Why is everyone arguing who is better, it doesnt matter!

The Facts:
Cutler was offered in trade.
Cutler didnt like it. BUT CUTLER IS really mad at the fact Shanahan and the coaching staff was fired. Bus Cook has come clean and revealed that today.
Cutler wants traded now.
Broncos will trade him when they get the right offer.

Bowlen has almost assured everyone that Cutler will definitely be traded, why keep someone that doesnt want to be here.

Lets get over it and wait for the trade to happen, whichever one that may be.

[bullis26]

are you seriously trying to compare cutler to peyton manning? i can see the brett favre comparision but not peyton

Peyton is a class act, hes not a crybaby for one
I dont think favre is a cry baby either but he caused a scene last year, and they have the same agent

[bullis26]

Heck, in the last game, I think he threw about 8 passes. They ran the ball 44+ times.

Did you see that wind during that game, the field goal post was swinging from side to side....you cannot blame him for throwing 8 passes, how many passes did trent edwards throw..... i think even less so thats not a good argument at all

[Gamechanger]

are you seriously trying to compare cutler to peyton manning? i can see the brett favre comparision but not peyton

Peyton is a class act, hes not a crybaby for one
I dont think favre is a cry baby either but he caused a scene last year, and they have the same agent

many people would want to argue with that because of the "O-Line Protection" comment :rolleyes:

[Poet]

many people would want to argue with that because of the "O-Line Protection" comment :rolleyes:

One bad moment does not tarnish a career of being classy, but man that was bad.

When Carson Palmer tore his ACL/MCL/broke his kneecap against the Steelers in the Wild Card game in 2005 (:mad::mad::mad:), Manning sent him some champagne and a note that said something along the lines of "don't worry about it, you'll get back there soon enough,".

Peyton Manning is a class act, and a damned liar. :tsk:

[Gamechanger]

One bad moment does not tarnish a career of being classy, but man that was bad.

When Carson Palmer tore his ACL/MCL/broke his kneecap against the Steelers in the Wild Card game in 2005 (:mad::mad::mad:), Manning sent him some champagne and a note that said something along the lines of "don't worry about it, you'll get back there soon enough,".

Peyton Manning is a class act, and a damned liar. :tsk:

i'd blame Mike Brown for that one

[Poet]

i'd blame Mike Brown for that one

Don't start a King87 rant that this message board can't handle.

[Gamechanger]

Don't start a King87 rant that this message board can't handle.



http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv174/tei_blu_bae/mike_brown.jpg

[Poet]

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv174/tei_blu_bae/mike_brown.jpg

Used to be my avatar I believe.

Must.....not....think....of...Akili...Smith.....

MY HEART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/dead