Broncos' owner, Cutler's agent sound off on drama in Denver

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I just found this - So - Bowlen finally talks, but I absolutely CAN NOT believe what Bowlen said - is he getting senile, or what?????? :tsk:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f54761&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Before Jay Cutler and Josh McDaniels entered their swamp of contentious confusion, the groundwork for a muddled fallout between the quarterback and the Denver Broncos had roots in the days following team owner Pat Bowlen's Dec. 30 firing of coach Mike Shanahan.

Bus Cook, Cutler's agent, said on Monday morning: "Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."


Bowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

Little wonder Cutler and the Broncos are in total bewilderment.

This thing began unraveling quicker than most knew.

It is clear that Cutler bought into the coaching of Shanahan, and even more so, that of his former offensive coordinator, Jeremy Bates, who is now at USC. It appears Cutler believed keeping Bates aboard was the best of a rocky situation.

But on Jan. 12, Bowlen, as is his absolute right, hired former New England Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. McDaniels, as his absolute right, wanted to run his own offense with his own hand-picked offensive assistants.

Cutler's attitude at that point was, well, you might as well get rid of me, too.

"But I never requested a trade for Jay then," Cook said. "That is simply not true.

"Jay met with the coach early on and then told me everything was going to be OK. He said, 'We are going to work this out; we are on the same wavelength.' Everything was fine until Saturday two weeks ago. Jay called me and asked, 'Are they trying to trade me?' I told him, 'No, why would they try to do that?'"

That was when the story broke that the Broncos had discussions about trading Cutler in a deal that would bring then-New England quarterback and McDaniels mentee Matt Cassel to Denver. Cassel wound up being traded to the Kansas City Chiefs, but Cutler has said he lost trust in McDainiels because of the way the entire episode was handled.

"We told them the evening of our last meeting that Jay wanted to be a Bronco even before the meeting," Cook said. "Jay told them he understood about the coach's relationship with Matt Cassel. At no time was the coach critical of Jay. In fact, he told Jay soon after he got to Denver that Jay was the reason he came to Denver. So, why was he trying to trade him? All the guy had to do was say I dropped the ball, I have a special bond with Cassel, you are my guy. Jay never heard that. What he heard in the meeting was it could happen again."

An absolute mess here all around.

Bowlen realizes it. He was asked if he thought Cutler would remain a Bronco.

"To tell you the truth, I have no answer to that question," Bowlen said. "I would like to keep him here, obviously. But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."

Bowlen was asked if he has reservations about McDaniels, his new coach, or the way he handled this matter.

"Obviously, I am not going to criticize the head coach," Bowlen said. "I think he was trying to be a head coach. As I see it, Jay got upset about things and his feelings were hurt, and here we are. I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

[Day1BroncoFan]

"To tell you the truth, I have no answer to that question," Bowlen said. "I would like to keep him here, obviously. But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."


True!

[yardog]

:doh:

:tsk:

:frusty:

:tsk:

[roomemp]

If I was getting paid millions of dollars, I would play for anybody my owner wanted me too. Hell, I would play for the devil.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

So, more than once, we have heard that Jay talked with Pat after he fired Mike, and assured Jay that, in so many words, "Jay was the man", and NOW Bowlen says he can not remember if he had that discussion or not????:tsk::mad::shocked:

[sanluis]

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e252/tziller/Cutler-1.jpg


NO WONDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:shocked::lol: just trying to lighten things up!:D

[underrated29]

So, more than once, we have heard that Jay talked with Pat after he fired Mike, and assured Jay that, in so many words, "Jay was the man", and NOW Bowlen says he can not remember if he had that discussion or not????:tsk::mad::shocked:



Thats what gets mee tooo!

I just cant fathom this. Its no wonder jay has no confidence in the FO- they cant even remember talking to him.



Just give him an extended contract already and put this whole thing to rest. Why is this soo hard Pat?

It should be easier now, you give him the contract, forget about it like you did the meeting, and things are back to normal. Jay is happy with a new long contract and you are happy because you have jay and you dont remember giving him the contract.

[NameUsedBefore]

Oh my ... is Pat Bowlen is turning into Al Davis right before our eyes?

[sanluis]

Oh my ... is Pat Bowlen is turning into Al Davis right before our eyes?

Kind of sounds like it to me. :eek: Pat should have picked his words a little better!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Thats what gets mee tooo!

I just cant fathom this. Its no wonder jay has no confidence in the FO- they cant even remember talking to him.



Just give him an extended contract already and put this whole thing to rest. Why is this soo hard Pat?

It should be easier now, you give him the contract, forget about it like you did the meeting, and things are back to normal. Jay is happy with a new long contract and you are happy because you have jay and you dont remember giving him the contract.

Or, just another cover up? WOW, the Broncos organization certainly appears to be taking on the character of the Patriots more and more. :tsk:

[Grover]

Oh my ... is Pat Bowlen is turning into Al Davis right before our eyes?


I really hate that I'm thinking this way, but I'm concerned that Pat has lost his touch on reality. He just doesn't seem to have a clue.

But the difference between Pat and Al, is that Al has a firm grip on the rudder as he crashes the ship into the reef. Pat just seems to be standing on deck saying, "Hey, is there a reef around here somewhere?"

[dogfish]

time to lay off the sauce pat. . . .

[getlynched47]

Bowlen is an idiot.

How convenient that he "can't recall" a discussion with Cutler :rolleyes:

McDaniels + Bowlen = FAIL :coffee:

[Northman]

What is your dumbasses problem? I understood gibberish perfectly.

[Watchthemiddle]

You guys need to go to NFL.com and watch the video surrounding this.

Bring in Quinn and ship out Cutler.....:salute:

[Watchthemiddle]

time to lay off the sauce pat. . . .

I think he has......he is laying off the Jay Cutler sauce everyone has seemed to buy into with Shanahan....:laugh:

[MadMax]

Pat Bowlen is a smart man, he's run a hundred million dollar operation here for decades. He has the power to fire and hire hundreds of employees, so why would he make a rookie mistake that could back him into a corner and promise not to fire someone. Not to mention the fact that Pat Bowlen has always given the Head Coach full autonomy over deciding his coaching staff. You can try to use this quote all you want, I read it as Pat Bowlen trying not to upset things further by flat out calling Bus Cook a bald face liar.

[Dean]

Maybe I was wrong. It might not be that Pat doesn't really want to make the decissions. Maybe he just doesn't have the mental capabilities to do so. His short term memory is fading.

At the press conference following the firing of Mike Shanahan Bowlen was asked if he had talked to any players, yet. Pat "make it a double" Bowlen replied that he had talked to Jay.

[dogfish]

Bring in Quinn and ship out Cutler.....:salute:


brady queen = poor man's joey harrington



http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5575/fail2m.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fail2m.jpg)

[claymore]

So, more than once, we have heard that Jay talked with Pat after he fired Mike, and assured Jay that, in so many words, "Jay was the man", and NOW Bowlen says he can not remember if he had that discussion or not????:tsk::mad::shocked:

I am floored. I was concerned about Pat when I saw the Zimmerman HOF speech............. WOW.

:faint:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Thomas George, the person who wrote this article, was just on with Sandy. He was previously with the Denver Post. If/when they put the discussion on their site, I will post the link.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Pat, it's time for the Betty Ford Clinic. Seriously, it's getting bad.

[BeefStew25]

SO is Bowlen a lush?

[NightTrainLayne]

I suppose it's not possible for Bowlen to have a conversation with Jay, but have Jay twist his words huh?

I mean, I've been privy to plenty of conversations in my business where my customers hear what they want to hear and disregard what they don't want to hear.

Isn't it possible that Jay is doing that here?

Obviously, the other possibility is there that Bowlen is a drunk dementia sufferer and is fixing to run the organization into the ground. But I know which one of those two scenarios seems more likely to me.

[getlynched47]

I suppose it's not possible for Bowlen to have a conversation with Jay, but have Jay twist his words huh?

I mean, I've been privy to plenty of conversations in my business where my customers hear what they want to hear and disregard what they don't want to hear.

Isn't it possible that Jay is doing that here?

Obviously, the other possibility is there that Bowlen is a drunk dementia sufferer and is fixing to run the organization into the ground. But I know which one of those two scenarios seems more likely to me.

I'll take possibility #2...

[NightTrainLayne]

I just find it funny that every time something is reported that Jay/Cook have a completely different interpretation of the conversation than do the Broncos FO.

And it's always Cutler/Cook talking about "what they said", vs. talking about what Cutler/Cook said.

Something doesn't add up there. Cutler/Cook is unceasingly telling us what the Broncos are supposedly saying, and then all we hear from the Broncos is responses along the lines of "we didn't see it that way".

If the Broncos came out first and said "here's how it went" and then Cutler/Cook disagreed I might give them more credence, but the first word we hear about what the Broncos say comes from Cutler/Cook and not from the Broncos. That tells me that they are possibly trying to shape what we hear, and unfortunately, the Broncos are trying not to say anything publicly.

[jrelway]

yea real nice pat. now i know who really ran the organization. Shanny. gosh, i would take a kick to the nutsack to have shanny run this team again. i would also take a punch to the face if i could see mcdaniels getting his ass whipped.

[Buff]

Cutler and Cook had already decided how they were going to spin their interpretation of the meeting before the meeting ever happened last weekend IMO. They had no intention of reconciling.

[dogfish]

Cutler and Cook had already decided how they were going to spin their interpretation of the meeting before the meeting ever happened last weekend IMO. They had no intention of reconciling.



see any aliens while you were up on the grassy knoll, buff?

[getlynched47]

LMFAO at Pat Bowlen:

"I run the show" :rolleyes:

you were practically Mike Shanahan's (i dont know if I can say that word) b****........and now you're Josh McDaniels b****

I think you should've said "I run the show...until we get a new head coach"

:coffee:

[Buff]

see any aliens while you were up on the grassy knoll, buff?

I think one side (the one that makes more money) has an agenda and the other side is being painted as though they have an agenda.

[dogfish]

I think one side (the one that makes more money) has an agenda and the other side is being painted as though they have an agenda.

so bowlen has the agenda?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Here is the interview with Thomas George, the writer of this article - 4th entry.

http://www.fm1043thefan.com/theSportsGuys/podcasts.cfm

Also, discussion with Thomas George on this article with NFL Total Access - go to nfl.com and click under Video "Drama In Denver".

[omac]

If only someone bugged the meetings and leaked it onto the net .... :D

It's not far fetched that McDaiels is trying to cover his ass, and since he's Bowlen's boy, Pat needs to back him up. It's also quite possible that Jay and Cook never really wanted to play for McDaniels, or wanted a bigger contract.

What is fact are these:

1. Bowlen publicly stating/implying that Shanahan would coach the Broncos for life.

2. That he would keep the Goodmans and the front office intact.

3. That he said Jay was the man, and that he would keep him in the loop.

4. Pat said that he himself is in charge.

Pat hasn't exactly been a man of his words lately. Of the 4, I wish he'd taken more to heart #4, and much sooner before any of this escalated. Despite what Pat said about himself being in charge, it looks like McDaniels has all the power, just like Shanahan did before him.

[slim]

I sure am glad Pat took back control of the team this year. He is a true leader.

[TXBRONC]

I suppose it's not possible for Bowlen to have a conversation with Jay, but have Jay twist his words huh?

I mean, I've been privy to plenty of conversations in my business where my customers hear what they want to hear and disregard what they don't want to hear.

Isn't it possible that Jay is doing that here?

Obviously, the other possibility is there that Bowlen is a drunk dementia sufferer and is fixing to run the organization into the ground. But I know which one of those two scenarios seems more likely to me.

Well Bowlen did say pubically that Cutler was his quarterback, so probably very likely Bowlen did say something to that effect.

[omac]

Here is the interview with Thomas George, the writer of this article - 4th entry.

http://www.fm1043thefan.com/theSportsGuys/podcasts.cfm

Also, discussion with Thomas George on this article with NFL Total Access - go to nfl.com and click under Video "Drama In Denver".

Carol, that's a great interview. :salute:

True that it's only commentary, but it's from insiders who know how coaches and agents think. They also make a good point about how McDaniels story about passively listening to offers for Cutler not add up to his aggressive personality when going after players like Dawkins. They don't fault him for wanting to get his type of QB, since he knows what he wants for his system. They said the only mistake McDaniels made was not pulling the trigger; they said if that's what he wanted, he should've been in it to win it, and he was naive to think it wouldn't blow up in his face if he failed.

Basically, they don't fault McDaniels for wanting to run things his way; they even equate it to how McCarthy was right in getting rid of Brett Favre. But they seem to put more credence in Cutler's version of things.

They also don't believe Cutler will stay a Bronco.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Carol, that's a great interview. :salute:

True that it's only commentary, but it's from insiders who know how coaches and agents think. They also make a good point about how McDaniels story about passively listening to offers for Cutler not add up to his aggressive personality when going after players like Dawkins. They don't fault him for wanting to get his type of QB, since he knows what he wants for his system. They said the only mistake McDaniels made was not pulling the trigger; they said if that's what he wanted, he should've been in it to win it, and he was naive to think it wouldn't blow up in his face if he failed.

Basically, they don't fault McDaniels for wanting to run things his way; they even equate it to how McCarthy was right in getting rid of Brett Favre. But they seem to put more credence in Cutler's version of things.

They also don't believe Cutler will stay a Bronco.

I thought George's conversation with the guy on NFL Total Access was more to the point, than what it was with the guys on The Fan. I think he offered more there.

[TXBRONC]

Carol, that's a great interview. :salute:

True that it's only commentary, but it's from insiders who know how coaches and agents think. They also make a good point about how McDaniels story about passively listening to offers for Cutler not add up to his aggressive personality when going after players like Dawkins. They don't fault him for wanting to get his type of QB, since he knows what he wants for his system. They said the only mistake McDaniels made was not pulling the trigger; they said if that's what he wanted, he should've been in it to win it, and he was naive to think it wouldn't blow up in his face if he failed.

Basically, they don't fault McDaniels for wanting to run things his way; they even equate it to how McCarthy was right in getting rid of Brett Favre. But they seem to put more credence in Cutler's version of things.

They also don't believe Cutler will stay a Bronco.

At the same time George did say that he didn't things couldn't be mended.
McDaniels in a tough spot. Not pulling the trigger to get Cassel (which my opinion would be mistake in the long run) mean that whatever quarterback he brings in has learn the offense from scratch. He better hope whomever it is learns it fast and that the defense improve because if losing continues he'll get the boot.

[getlynched47]

I sure am glad Pat took back control of the team this year. He is a true leader.

like he said... "I run the show" (until I hire a new head coach)

:lol:

[Lonestar]

I just find it funny that every time something is reported that Jay/Cook have a completely different interpretation of the conversation than do the Broncos FO.

And it's always Cutler/Cook talking about "what they said", vs. talking about what Cutler/Cook said.

Something doesn't add up there. Cutler/Cook is unceasingly telling us what the Broncos are supposedly saying, and then all we hear from the Broncos is responses along the lines of "we didn't see it that way".

If the Broncos came out first and said "here's how it went" and then Cutler/Cook disagreed I might give them more credence, but the first word we hear about what the Broncos say comes from Cutler/Cook and not from the Broncos. That tells me that they are possibly trying to shape what we hear, and unfortunately, the Broncos are trying not to say anything publicly.

I'm getting into this late.. Here is my take..


I think it is always better to have no comment when dealing with personnel matters.. than to say something that can come back to haunt you..

Either way if bus is just doing this all to get a new contract IN den or in a bigger market city nothing we do is going to be right.. if we leak/lead with a story then he inflames jays fragile ego..

I think the term is damned if we do damned if we don't..

The comment about he is under contract to the Broncos and they expect to see him as a Bronco this year was the right thing to do.. let buss force their hands..

We all know that this is only about bus getting his % of jays huge new contract don't we?

Frankly I would rather not have that happen in DEN until we know for sure his thin skin will not cost us games.. we all saw him and Rivers in the past few games and had it not been for at least two bad ref calls in that first game I think everyone can agree that would not have been a win for us..

[gobroncsnv]

If I was getting paid millions of dollars, I would play for anybody my owner wanted me too. Hell, I would play for the devil.

Is your real name Jamarcus Russell?

[TXBRONC]

Is your real name Jamarcus Russell?

Al Davis isn't the devil, he's one of the devil's underlings. :D

[fcspikeit]

I just found this - So - Bowlen finally talks, but I absolutely CAN NOT believe what Bowlen said - is he getting senile, or what?????? :tsk:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f54761&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Bus Cook, Cutler's agent, said on Monday morning: "Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."


Bowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."


Don't discount Cutler's role in coach search (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_11362889)


Pat Bowlen, Joe Ellis. And Jay Cutler.

All right, so Cutler is a slight stretch. He did not make the trip Saturday to meet with New York Giants' defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo. But Cutler has more influence on this head coaching decision than people might think.

After Mike Shanahan was fired Tuesday, Cutler, the Broncos' 25-year-old quarterback, made it clear through an emotional phone call with Ellis, the Broncos' chief operating officer, that play-caller Jeremy Bates better stay.

Cutler reiterated his endorsement of Bates, in much calmer tones, during a phone call the following morning placed by Bowlen, the Broncos' owner.

"Obviously he's the man around here now so I will be talking to Jay," Bowlen said.

Cutler has been kept abreast of the coaching search. He knew the five candidates, not including Bob Stoops, before anyone else knew.

Cutler's desire to retain Bates is tied for the top reason why the Broncos are leaning toward making a defensive coordinator their head coach. The other tied-for-first reason is this Broncos' franchise desperately needs to fix its defense.

My god, is it any wonder Jay asked to be traded?

Bowlen is looking more like a dirt bag every day... :tsk: :tsk:

[rcsodak]

Kind of sounds like it to me. :eek: Pat should have picked his words a little better!

Howso?

Talk about seeing some words written, without reading the context of the question!

ANY person could make another look like a complete buffoon by leaving out/adding in certains verbage.

Cripes, people!

When will ya'll learn that YOU'RE being played as much as the FO!!!!!!

[Magnificent Seven]

I hope that Bowlen would offer Cutler more money and burn the hatchet with McDaniels. So, the city of Denver will be happy.

[Lonestar]

I guess I have to wonder if any of you remembers a specific conversation they had months ago as clearly as you think Pat should or jay does..:laugh::laugh:

I suspect that Pat did indeed talk to jay and tell him your the man at QB now.. and I will keep that in mind when I interview head coaches.. Beyond that I doubt that he promised him anything..

[rcsodak]

brady queen = poor man's joey harrington



http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5575/fail2m.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fail2m.jpg)

What's with the little 'clique' of FAIL, goin on.

You kids having fun?

I remember when it actually took some effort to prove someone's argument 'failed'. :coffee:

[sneakers]

We are not being told the whole truth here I think.

[rcsodak]

I'll take possibility #2...

The more and more you type, the less I think you're a Bronco fan. :tsk:


So what's next people? Ya'll gonna start bad-mouthing the owner because he's telling Cutler to 'shape up or ship out'?

Because he's siding with his HEAD COACH?

Let me know when you start agreeing with Raider/Chef fans, lambasting Bowlen & Co. Because that's when I'll know which posters are actual Broncos fans and which ones are posers!

[fcspikeit]

I suppose it's not possible for Bowlen to have a conversation with Jay, but have Jay twist his words huh?

I mean, I've been privy to plenty of conversations in my business where my customers hear what they want to hear and disregard what they don't want to hear.

Isn't it possible that Jay is doing that here?

Obviously, the other possibility is there that Bowlen is a drunk dementia sufferer and is fixing to run the organization into the ground. But I know which one of those two scenarios seems more likely to me.

"I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay"

He said he never even talked to Jay.. He is either lying out his ass or he has lost his mind.

[fcspikeit]

I just find it funny that every time something is reported that Jay/Cook have a completely different interpretation of the conversation than do the Broncos FO.

And it's always Cutler/Cook talking about "what they said", vs. talking about what Cutler/Cook said.

Something doesn't add up there. Cutler/Cook is unceasingly telling us what the Broncos are supposedly saying, and then all we hear from the Broncos is responses along the lines of "we didn't see it that way".

If the Broncos came out first and said "here's how it went" and then Cutler/Cook disagreed I might give them more credence, but the first word we hear about what the Broncos say comes from Cutler/Cook and not from the Broncos. That tells me that they are possibly trying to shape what we hear, and unfortunately, the Broncos are trying not to say anything publicly.

Cutler talking to Bowlen about keeping Bates has been talked about for months... Now he's saying he never even talked to Cutler? WTF?

[fcspikeit]

I guess I have to wonder if any of you remembers a specific conversation they had months ago as clearly as you think Pat should or jay does..:laugh::laugh:

I suspect that Pat did indeed talk to jay and tell him your the man at QB now.. and I will keep that in mind when I interview head coaches.. Beyond that I doubt that he promised him anything..

He said he never even talked to Jay after Shanahan got fired.. Face it Jr, he is lying..

[Lonestar]

He said he never even talked to Jay after Shanahan got fired.. Face it Jr, he is lying..

IF this quote is correct let me hi lite how I read it..

Bowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

I do not see why you have such a hatred of Pat , Josh or the broncos in general.

Jay does not walk on water a good to great Potential QB.. but so far has not be a winner since HS FOR WHATEVER REASON.. I do not care about the poor defense the past two years we do not know for sure he would have lead us to the playoffs if the D would have been better. Probably but is was not cast in stone either.. There are a lot of IFs every year..


lets stop arguing over something NO one has proved either way.. and let it settle out .. There is not reason to worry about something beyond your or my controls..

You are not going to sway my feelings for the broncos nor I you.. NIght

[NightTrainLayne]

Don't discount Cutler's role in coach search (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_11362889)



My god, is it any wonder Jay asked to be traded?

Bowlen is looking more like a dirt bag every day... :tsk: :tsk:

From day one back in January I have been confused by Bowlen's statement that you include above:


"Obviously he's the man around here now so I will be talking to Jay," Bowlen said.

From the first time I read that I fealt that it was a very odd statement for Bowlen to make, and I detected then some sarcasm in it.

Obviously Bowlen had just fired Shanny who was Cutler's mentor. If Jay was "obviously the man around here", then Shanny wouldn't have been fired to begin with.

Who knows how Bowlen intended that statement to be taken, but I knew from day one that Bowlen was going to hire his guy. Cutler doesn't have any experience in hunting for head coaches or the hiring process. It's just ludicrous to imagine a scenario where Bowlen would be taking Cutler's advice on a head coach at any time.

I can certainly see Bowlen making a statement in passing to the effect of "you're the starting QB on the #2 offense in the league, why would we change that.". . .Heck, that's what I would have thought at the time, and that's probably what everyone at the time thought. But that's a heck of a lot different than promising that he would give Cutler carte blanche to run the team.

Also, if the reports are right that Cutler was making waves behind the scenes to be traded, I can certainly see Bowlen and the FO re-evaluating any and all statements made to Cutler either implicity or explicitly.

Who really knows what went on behind the scenes, but I guarantee you there's more to it than Bowlen being a drunk liar.

[dogfish]

What's with the little 'clique' of FAIL, goin on.

You kids having fun?

I remember when it actually took some effort to prove someone's argument 'failed'. :coffee:


let me know when there's an argument that's actually worth disproving. . . . ;)



brady queen is shit. . . any suggestion that he's a valid replacement for jay isn't worth the bandwidth to argue with-- anyone that wants to believe that will see just how wrong they were if queen can ever get any playing time (PLEASE GOD let it be someplace other than denver!!). . . .

[Shazam!]

Cutler is not John Elway. He hasn't earned the right to dictate who the Broncos have at Coach.

Also the only reason that Quinn is being explored is because he is familiar with the system.

I love it how every QB in the NFL isn't worth **** and Cutler is some kind of freak of nature science project with the DNA of John Elway, Dan Marino, Joe Montana and Sammy Baugh.

[fcspikeit]

From day one back in January I have been confused by Bowlen's statement that you include above:



From the first time I read that I fealt that it was a very odd statement for Bowlen to make, and I detected then some sarcasm in it.

Obviously Bowlen had just fired Shanny who was Cutler's mentor. If Jay was "obviously the man around here", then Shanny wouldn't have been fired to begin with.

Who knows how Bowlen intended that statement to be taken, but I knew from day one that Bowlen was going to hire his guy. Cutler doesn't have any experience in hunting for head coaches or the hiring process. It's just ludicrous to imagine a scenario where Bowlen would be taking Cutler's advice on a head coach at any time.

I can certainly see Bowlen making a statement in passing to the effect of "you're the starting QB on the #2 offense in the league, why would we change that.". . .Heck, that's what I would have thought at the time, and that's probably what everyone at the time thought. But that's a heck of a lot different than promising that he would give Cutler carte blanche to run the team.

Also, if the reports are right that Cutler was making waves behind the scenes to be traded, I can certainly see Bowlen and the FO re-evaluating any and all statements made to Cutler either implicity or explicitly.

Who really knows what went on behind the scenes, but I guarantee you there's more to it than Bowlen being a drunk liar.

I didn't say I thought Cutler should have been able to pick the new coach..

My point was that Cutler clearly knew who the coaching candidates were so he was included in at least some part of the search.

Bowlen said he hadn't talked to Cutler after Shanahan was fired when it was reported that he not only talked to Cutler but he called him..

Do you really believe Bowlen could have forgot that conversation? I don't.. So why did he deny talking to Cutler? Why not just say, "we talked but I never promised keeping Bates"..

The guy who asked Bowlen in his interview said he thought Bowlen was surprised by the question, being surprised what was his reaction? He denied even talking to Cutler.. The first reaction of someone who is lying is to deny everything..

[gnomeflinger]

McDaniels have been Belichick'ed. No matter how much he may deny that claim, it's the truth.

[fcspikeit]

IF this quote is correct let me hi lite how I read it..

Bowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

I do not see why you have such a hatred of Pat , Josh or the broncos in general.

Jay does not walk on water a good to great Potential QB.. but so far has not be a winner since HS FOR WHATEVER REASON.. I do not care about the poor defense the past two years we do not know for sure he would have lead us to the playoffs if the D would have been better. Probably but is was not cast in stone either.. There are a lot of IFs every year..


lets stop arguing over something NO one has proved either way.. and let it settle out .. There is not reason to worry about something beyond your or my controls..

You are not going to sway my feelings for the broncos nor I you.. NIght

Jr, you of all people should know how I felt about Shanahan, I even defended your sometimes over the top rants about how awful he was as a GM. Mainly because I defend my friends and I also agreed with a lot of what you said concerning Shanahan.

I supported Bowlen hiring McDaniels, I even defended it.. I had absolutely nothing against him from the start. I was more excited then anything else.

After his press conference there were a few things I was mildly concerned about. I pointed them out in the McDaniels conference thread. His constant emphases on winning being the only thing that mattered didn’t set right with me. Sure you play to win but his emphases was as if anything can be justified as long as it’s done in the name of trying to win.

I thought maybe the spygate scandal with NE had something to do with me reading to much into what he was saying.. Now we have a proud franchise that is known for being good to its players and a great place to work, engaging in some seriously shady activity.

I want to see the Broncos win I thought as much as anyone, but I am not willing to sacrifice the basic principles of right and wrong, just so I can justify the actions of the team I have supported for over 20 years.

Much like Blachick I have no reason to trust McDaniels. We all know who he learned from. Do you believe Belichick really didn’t know taping the defenses signals was against the rules? How do you suppose he justified doing it? How do you suppose the Pats fans justified him doing it? It was all done in the name of Wining!

So do I believe McDaniels would lie about what he said to Cutler if he thought it was in the best interest of his agenda? You’re darn right I do! Just like Belichick, I don’t think he would even think twice about it.

You know I have supported Cutler many times.. But this isn’t just about McDaniels wanting to trade Cutler. I admit I hate the idea of Cutler getting traded and rather we agree trading for Cassel was a good move or not doesn’t even really matter. McDaniels is the coach. He might be an idiot for wanting to trade Cutler but he has the right to want his own players. I might not like it but I can accept it just the same.

The problem is this isn’t even about that anymore. McDaniels could have just came out and said he wanted Cassel because of their time together but it didn’t work out and now we have to move forward from here.. Much like Cutler said in his first phone conversation after the failed trade attempt.

Instead McDaniels denies it. As soon as he did that, many people turned on Cutler for making a big deal out of nothing. Saying all the Broncos did was answer the phone.

You can say that hasn’t been proven all you want but as Thomas George said on 104.3 the fan. You don’t have to look further then your nose to see that simply isn’t true. Every report about this situation says, after McDaniel tried to trade Cutler for Cassel. It isn’t even disputed anymore. Now we have Cutler saying he told him strait up he wanted Cassel, yet for whatever reason McDaniels doesn’t feel the need to come clean about it to clear Cutler’s name. Instead he is content with letting those who still want to believe him just go on believing Cutler made a big deal out of nothing.

Some people still try and say Cutler made all this fuss because McDaniels tried to trade him. He said he was upset by the trade talks in his first phone conversation but he knew it was something they had to move on from in order to learn the new system so the Broncos could try and reach the playoffs next year. He has maintained all along that he wanted to be a Bronco next year.. He didn’t get really upset until after McDaniels made him out to be a liar.

McDaniels tries to cover his actions and mislead anyone who isn’t really paying attention by saying things like, we have maintained all along we never tried to trade Cutler for draft picks. It is just a play on words for those who still want to believe all the Broncos did was answer the phone.

He doesn’t seem to care about how Cutler is seen as a result of his half truths. Now we have Bowlen denying ever talking to Cutler after Shanahan got fired and he then tries to cover his tracks by saying, well to be fair, I don’t remember having that conversation. So now he is clear from any fault because he doesn’t remember?.. How convenient.

How could he not remember even talking to Cutler? How dumb does he think we are? All he really did was evade the question and again in the process he is making Cutler look like a liar. Now more people can come up with crazy conspiracy theories of how Cutler and Cook have been planning this for months. Which really is a joke.. Anyone that has ever seen Cutler talk in front of a microphone knows there is no way Cutler could pull that off. He is one of the worst athletes I have ever heard at being able to say all the bullshit athletes are supposed to say. Even when he tries you can tell he doesn’t even believe what he’s saying.

I guess some are OK with the organization making an innocent person out to be the bad guy in order to show face.. I’m not. There is no respect in that. Winning doesn’t justify that. Mr. Bowlen never struck me as the type of person who would accept that either. But it appears I have misjudged him.

Really what’s he supposed to say? If he came out and said, yeah I told Cutler I would keep Bates. He would be seen as the liar. The only way he could answer and not look two faced is to say, I don’t remember saying that. That is unless he really didn’t say it. In which case, he would have just said. I never said that. I mean seriously, if Cutler really was telling lies about him, why would he even consider keeping him?

In closing, my hatred for Pat and the Broncos isn’t really hatred at all, its disappointment. The team I have cheered and fought for sense I was a child being told by my mother to calm down, “it’s only a game”, is severely letting me down a little more with each passing day. I’m sorry, that’s a big deal to me.

If and When this plays out like I fear it will. I’m not sure what that means for me in regards to the Broncos? I never thought a day could come when I would even consider asking myself that question.

But hay, it’s only one less screaming voice on Sunday, it’s only one less person planning their day around Broncos football, what’s one single fan worth anyways?

My "hatred" for McDaniels is from knowing how he would answer that question....

[CoachChaz]

These arguments are getting old. It's simple.

Those that believe Cutler hung the moon will find EVERY way to see things from the perspective that defend him, even if it comes to throwing the entire organization under the bus.

Those that believe Cutler is human and could be taking this too seriously will still try to see things objectively and understand that he is not the ONLY possibility for future success.

Each person knows what they believe, so why continue with any of this discussion?

[nthngd2say]

I would offer that before people lump Bowlen in with Al Davis they consider that Cook's statement that indicates Bowlen mislead Jay is false. Bus Cook needs to get his facts straight:

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

The Broncos fired Shanahan on Dec 30th and hired McDaniels on Jan 11th. Mike Klis' article http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11947197 says: Cutler left Denver the day before Mike Shanahan was fired and did not return until February. Another article on 1/15 from the Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11457713 states: "Cutler left Denver for vacation just hours after the team returned from San Diego on Dec. 29 and has not been back in town or spoken publicly since McDaniels was hired."

McCrook statements imply that Cutler met face-to-face with Bowlen and was given assurances. How is that possible if Cutler left town the day before Shanahan was fired and was not in town until February? Cutler had spoken with anyone from the Broncos - according to the articles - until Jan 15th when he spoke to McDaniels on the phone briefly after McDaniels had just been hired.

I am not implying this "report" [which it is not since they don't care to verify facts] is Cutler's fault but that Cook is as everyone implied - a pot stirrer and not credible. I also don't recall Cutler being quoted that he felt Bowlen mislead him as Cook also implied. I still don't dispute that Bowlen has played his part in this drama but Cook is lying and piling onto the fire.

[Hobe]

time to lay off the sauce pat. . . .


Na' switch to Geritol :shots:

Come on guys. Get your shit together! :damnmate:

[claymore]

These arguments are getting old. It's simple.

Those that believe Cutler hung the moon will find EVERY way to see things from the perspective that defend him, even if it comes to throwing the entire organization under the bus.

Those that believe Cutler is human and could be taking this too seriously will still try to see things objectively and understand that he is not the ONLY possibility for future success.

Each person knows what they believe, so why continue with any of this discussion?

You guys do the same thing by overexagerating Cutlers stance calling him a baby etc...

I dont choose Cutler over the organization, I choose Cutler over McDaniels.

[CoachChaz]

You guys do the same thing by overexagerating Cutlers stance calling him a baby etc...

I dont choose Cutler over the organization, I choose Cutler over McDaniels.

The bad part about this is that this is quite possibly the only fact in the situation.

Whether The team or McD did the things Cutler claims or not...Jay still didnt need to react the way he did publicly

[claymore]

The bad part about this is that this is quite possibly the only fact in the situation.

Whether The team or McD did the things Cutler claims or not...Jay still didnt need to react the way he did publicly

I agree it should have been an inhouse thing. But its not inconceivable that McDaniels wouldnt listen, or McDaniels antagonized him to push his (McD's)agenda.

[NightTrainLayne]

I didn't say I thought Cutler should have been able to pick the new coach..

My point was that Cutler clearly knew who the coaching candidates were so he was included in at least some part of the search.

Bowlen said he hadn't talked to Cutler after Shanahan was fired when it was reported that he not only talked to Cutler but he called him..

Do you really believe Bowlen could have forgot that conversation? I don't.. So why did he deny talking to Cutler? Why not just say, "we talked but I never promised keeping Bates"..

The guy who asked Bowlen in his interview said he thought Bowlen was surprised by the question, being surprised what was his reaction? He denied even talking to Cutler.. The first reaction of someone who is lying is to deny everything..

He didn't deny "talking" to Cutler. He said that he didn't recall "that" conversation.

Can't you see that those are two completely separate issues?

If everytime I didn't remember something my wife told me I said "I don't remember that conversation" she replied with "How can you say that, you talked to me yesterday!" I'd be divorced in a week.

[nthngd2say]

I would offer that before people lump Bowlen in with Al Davis they consider that Cook's statement that indicates Bowlen mislead Jay is false. Bus Cook needs to get his facts straight:

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

The Broncos fired Shanahan on Dec 30th and hired McDaniels on Jan 11th. Mike Klis' article http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11947197 says: Cutler left Denver the day before Mike Shanahan was fired and did not return until February. Another article on 1/15 from the Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11457713 states: "Cutler left Denver for vacation just hours after the team returned from San Diego on Dec. 29 and has not been back in town or spoken publicly since McDaniels was hired."

McCrook statements imply that Cutler met face-to-face with Bowlen and was given assurances. How is that possible if Cutler left town the day before Shanahan was fired and was not in town until February? Cutler had spoken with anyone from the Broncos - according to the articles - until Jan 15th when he spoke to McDaniels on the phone briefly after McDaniels had just been hired.

I am not implying this "report" [which it is not since they don't care to verify facts] is Cutler's fault but that Cook is as everyone implied - a pot stirrer and not credible. I also don't recall Cutler being quoted that he felt Bowlen mislead him as Cook also implied. I still don't dispute that Bowlen has played his part in this drama but Cook is lying and piling onto the fire.

Bowlen is technically right as how can he recall a conversation that physically could never have happened when Cutler was not in town from Dec 29 until February. This comes from Cook not Cutler. Cutler has not been quoted as saying he felt Bowlen mislead him that I know of. It is sad to a degree that Bowlen can't remember these facts though.

[Den21vsBal19]

I agree it should have been an inhouse thing. But its not inconceivable that McDaniels wouldnt listen, or McDaniels antagonized him to push his (McD's)agenda.
Or alternatively that Bus pushed him to air it publically...........................a-hole's got previous form............

[NightTrainLayne]

I would offer that before people lump Bowlen in with Al Davis they consider that Cook's statement that indicates Bowlen mislead Jay is false. Bus Cook needs to get his facts straight:

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

The Broncos fired Shanahan on Dec 30th and hired McDaniels on Jan 11th. Mike Klis' article http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11947197 says: Cutler left Denver the day before Mike Shanahan was fired and did not return until February. Another article on 1/15 from the Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11457713 states: "Cutler left Denver for vacation just hours after the team returned from San Diego on Dec. 29 and has not been back in town or spoken publicly since McDaniels was hired."

McCrook statements imply that Cutler met face-to-face with Bowlen and was given assurances. How is that possible if Cutler left town the day before Shanahan was fired and was not in town until February? Cutler had spoken with anyone from the Broncos - according to the articles - until Jan 15th when he spoke to McDaniels on the phone briefly after McDaniels had just been hired.

I am not implying this "report" [which it is not since they don't care to verify facts] is Cutler's fault but that Cook is as everyone implied - a pot stirrer and not credible. I also don't recall Cutler being quoted that he felt Bowlen mislead him as Cook also implied. I still don't dispute that Bowlen has played his part in this drama but Cook is lying and piling onto the fire.

One of the best posts here.

Why so many Broncos fans continue to believe everything that Cook spoon-feeds to the media is beyond me

[claymore]

Or alternatively that Bus pushed him to air it publically...........................a-hole's got previous form............

Cook is obviously an issue. And his intent is to get paid again whether thru a trade or an extension.

Cutler got some bad advice. But in the end I cant say I blame him for things he has said or done. He shouldnt have to look over his shoulder at this point in his career.

[eessydo]

At this point all I know is that we will probably NOT know the entire story regardless of what we think. I think both sides have issues, but engaging in trade talks for an average backup QB to replace a franchise QB with significantly more potential is just not smart.

That just stinks of someone who would rather get his system into place because he is uncomfortable with doing it on his own. It feels like the leader has a serious confidence issue winning with new players. Does he feel like he can't coach players into his system?? Has he always worked underneath someone else and had his system communicated down to the new players from the old players?

If you can't take new players and teach them a new system with a handful of role players from your previous employer what good are you??

Great coaches have taken there system and been successful in other places. Seeing as how they are all Parcells desciples, he did it over and over and over again.

In two years McD will be facing a tough situation if he ditches cutler. It will turn into a win-now or you are gone scenario. If that doesn't happen, bye-bye future shots at winning another head coaching job!! Everyone will be scared of his approach due to the Cutler saga.

It is easy to establish a culture of interchangable parts when someone else laid the ground work for you, much harder to do from scratch. As a broncos fan I hope for the best, but it really makes me sick that a 32 year old new england protege is calling the shots.

Remember, the other 32 year old successful coach was from the Tony Dungy tree, which is a far more "Player friendly" system than the Patriots.

[CoachChaz]

I agree it should have been an inhouse thing. But its not inconceivable that McDaniels wouldnt listen, or McDaniels antagonized him to push his (McD's)agenda.

I agree...and that's why (as I've said COUNTLESS times) none of us can make a true assessment on the situation because WE DONT KNOW WHAT happened. It's all he said this or we said that.

Too many things on both sides are contradictory and inane for anyone to come to any educated conclusion about this.

[NightTrainLayne]

I agree...and that's why (as I've said COUNTLESS times) none of us can make a true assessment on the situation because WE DONT KNOW WHAT happened. It's all he said this or we said that.

Too many things on both sides are contradictory and inane for anyone to come to any educated conclusion about this.

Educated conclusion? Ahhh, that never stopped any of us before. We'll just continue with a bunch of UNeducated conclusions. :D :elefant:

[CoachChaz]

At this point all I know is that we will probably NOT know the entire story regardless of what we think. I think both sides have issues, but engaging in trade talks for an average backup QB to replace a franchise QB with significantly more potential is just not smart.

That just stinks of someone who would rather get his system into place because he is uncomfortable with doing it on his own. It feels like the leader has a serious confidence issue winning with new players. Does he feel like he can't coach players into his system?? Has he always worked underneath someone else and had his system communicated down to the new players from the old players?

If you can't take new players and teach them a new system with a handful of role players from your previous employer what good are you??

Great coaches have taken there system and been successful in other places. Seeing as how they are all Parcells desciples, he did it over and over and over again.

In two years McD will be facing a tough situation if he ditches cutler. It will turn into a win-now or you are gone scenario. If that doesn't happen, bye-bye future shots at winning another head coaching job!! Everyone will be scared of his approach due to the Cutler saga.

It is easy to establish a culture of interchangable parts when someone else laid the ground work for you, much harder to do from scratch. As a broncos fan I hope for the best, but it really makes me sick that a 32 year old new england protege is calling the shots.

Remember, the other 32 year old successful coach was from the Tony Dungy tree, which is a far more "Player friendly" system than the Patriots.

I'll agree to this portion as it stands alone, however...what if you were given a chance to get a QB in return that, while he may not equate to Cutler's skillset, has proven he can run the system and offense successfully...and in addition to that player, you can get other pieces to improve the team elsewhere?

It comes down to having to give something to get something.

[eessydo]

I'll agree to this portion as it stands alone, however...what if you were given a chance to get a QB in return that, while he may not equate to Cutler's skillset, has proven he can run the system and offense successfully...and in addition to that player, you can get other pieces to improve the team elsewhere?

It comes down to having to give something to get something.

Well let's look at history then, specifically the systems guru, Bill Parcells. How many times did Parcells take a franchise player and toss him aside in his first year for another player with less talent AND draft picks. Well pretty much never. Neither did Bellicheck in his first year. Parts became movable after time, but to step in and make drastic moves like that in your first year without knowing what you have is crazy.

Besides we were moving back in the draft which would put is lower in the running for an LB or DT which we desperately need, all for a QB with less upside. Look, the Patriots are not getting rid of Tom Brady for a reason, he is clearly the better QB, why throw Jay aside when he is also clearly the better QB?

Just doesn't add up, but I can respect other views.

[CoachChaz]

Well let's look at history then, specifically the systems guru, Bill Parcells. How many times did Parcells take a franchise player and toss him aside in his first year for another player with less talent AND draft picks. Well pretty much never. Neither did Bellicheck in his first year. Parts became movable after time, but to step in and make drastic moves like that in your first year without knowing what you have is crazy.

Besides we were moving back in the draft which would put is lower in the running for an LB or DT which we desperately need, all for a QB with less upside. Look, the Patriots are not getting rid of Tom Brady for a reason, he is clearly the better QB, why throw Jay aside when he is also clearly the better QB?

Just doesn't add up, but I can respect other views.

This is where the argument always gets skewed.

No, the Pats are not throwing Tom Brady aside. Why? He has MVP's and Super Bowl rings. I'll leave it at that and allow the rest to be figured out by common sense while concluding that it's getting really silly to continue hearing comparisons of Cutler to Brady and Manning.

Potential? Yes. Proof? None.

[NightTrainLayne]

This is where the argument always gets skewed.

No, the Pats are not throwing Tom Brady aside. Why? He has MVP's and Super Bowl rings. I'll leave it at that and allow the rest to be figured out by common sense while concluding that it's getting really silly to continue hearing comparisons of Cutler to Brady and Manning.

Potential? Yes. Proof? None.

Let's add to that.

Knowing what we know now, wouldn't Bellichik's smartest move been to replace Bledsoe with Brady at the start of the season that year?

Who now, would argue that Bledsoe was a better QB than Brady? If Bellichik had mentioned before that season that he was thinking of starting Brady, how do you think Bledsoe and the media in Boston would have reacted? But it would have been the right move then, AND THEY WOULDN'T HAVE EVEN GOTTEN EXTRA DRAFT PICKS OUT OF IT! But Brady fits that system perfectly and it worked out better than anyone could have forecast at the time.

Now, you've got a situation where McDaniels KNOWS that Cassel can excel in his system. Plus he apparently wasn't looking at a straight-up trade, but instead getting Cassell PLUS some pretty important draft picks to help out other areas of the team.

All things being equal and based on McD's statements I believe that McDaniels wants Cutler here, but if the price was right with additional draft picks that he knows Cassell could perform well enough for the TEAM to be successful. Obviously we weren't offered enough, or the deal came about too late in the process, but the Brady/Bledsoe comparison, then reinforced with Cassel's replacement of Brady last season taught Bellichik's staff some important lessons.

McD, might only be 32, but he's had some great experience dealing with QB's. Maybe. .. just maybe, he deserves the benefit of the doubt until he at least gets to showcase his team on the field. .. and he intends to do so with Cutler.

[underrated29]

everyone always brings this up, but what does his age have to do with anything. I keep hearing it and its crazy. Yes, he will have less experience than a guy who has coached for 25 years, but other than that so what...If you can do your job, and do it well age shouldnt matter....

Age doesnt matter.

[rcsodak]

by John Czarnecki
There are a number of issues to consider in this Jay Cutler "I want to be traded" drama. First, Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels isn't Bill Belichick. He's only 32 and he's new to being the boss. He's also not used to being around a pouty, immature quarterback.

Then, there is Cutler's agent, Bus Cook. Fans became familiar with Cook last summer because he is Brett Favre's agent. And we all know how that once great Favre-Green Bay marriage turned out. It went up in flames and now Favre is retired and looking for TV work.

Cook has forever claimed that he couldn't reason with Favre and protect him from himself. That's why Favre landed with the Jets and not with Jon Gruden and the Bucs. I always thought a wise, old agent like Cook would have pulled those strings a little better than he did.

But give Cook credit. He's been pulling the strings nicely for Cutler. Everyone should know that Cutler has wanted out of Denver ever since Mike Shanahan was fired and quarterback coach Jeremy Bates left for USC shortly afterward.

Before McDaniels and the Broncos pursued a failed trade for Matt Cassel, Cook had already been begging to get his client out. Denver told him no from the beginning. But somehow Cook has been able — how hilarious is this? — to paint Cutler as some victim in the cruel world of NFL trade talk. At the moment, the Broncos seem to be losing the PR war.

Cutler is from Santa Claus, Indiana. So, he wouldn't mind playing in the Midwest, but probably not Detroit. He wouldn't mind Tampa, either, considering the Bucs were very serious about possibly acquiring him in the botched three-way trade with New England.

A wise man once told me it's not about more money, but dollars always seem to be an issue. Cassel, who has played one NFL season since high school, is on the financial ledger for $14.6 million this season. Cutler, a first-round bonus baby, has a $2.3 million salary for 2009. The only way Cook is going to receive a better commission (and a higher salary for his 25-year-old quarterback) is by forcing Denver to trade Cutler, who is entering the fourth year of a six-year contract.


I don't know what to make of Cutler. He turned me off last season when he said his arm was better than John Elway's. He talks about McDaniels not being smart enough to simply pull him aside and talk to him one-on-one and sing sweet accolades into his ear.

One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady. Oh, and his won-lost record is 17-20.

It is going to be hard for McDaniels to turn this situation around. But there is no question that he needs to be able to talk with Cutler alone. Cutler needs to make his own decisions without Cook in the room. In Green Bay, the Packers never felt that Cook helped matters when dealing with Favre. The same situation has mushroomed in Denver, where McDaniels feels he might get somewhere with Cutler if he's minus Cook. The agent is complicating matters.

By now, knowing what he knows about Cutler, the young head coach is torn about what course to pursue. But it is never good to be trading a star player while in a weakened position. Teams never seem to receive the proper compensation — like two first-round picks — when a petulant player is making demands and failing to show for work. Yes, this week's minicamp is optional, but you would think that a young quarterback would want to find out how McDaniels is as a coach before turning his back on him.

The league's owner meetings begin Sunday in Dana Point, Ca. and Denver's Pat Bowlen and McDaniels will be able to talk directly to any potential bidders for Cutler. Tampa Bay, Detroit and Minnesota make the most sense because all three teams need a starting quarterback. Yes, the Vikings just signed Sage Rosenfels to compete with Tarvaris Jackson, but no one really views him as a long-term solution.

The dilemma for Denver is what quarterback do they pursue or accept as compensation? The cupboard is pretty bare, and that's why Cleveland is mentioned (Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson) and Arizona (Matt Leinart). The Jets may join the pursuit, too. The Bears, who were Cutler's favorite team while growing up in Indiana, make a lot of sense, but they seem to be pinching pennies again. Also, I don't see Kyle Orton as Denver's next quarterback. Right now, forgotten Chris Simms is running with the first team in Denver.

It would be ridiculous for Denver to trade Cutler to Detroit for the first overall pick, and thus be forced to pay either Georgia's Matt Stafford or USC's Mark Sanchez about $33 million in guaranteed money if they deem either one of those prospects as a decent replacement. Both Tampa and Detroit have mid-first round picks, but it's unlikely either of those quarterbacks would be available at No. 19 or No. 20, respectively.

The bottom line is that the Broncos would be better off keeping Cutler and finding a way to make it work. But we all know that isn't going to happen.

[dogfish]

Each person knows what they believe, so why continue with any of this discussion?


good point, coach. . . so why do you keep posting in these threads?



:lol:





uggghhh. . . . and why do i?



:doh:

[CoachChaz]

good point, coach. . . so why do you keep posting in these threads?



:lol:





uggghhh. . . . and why do i?



:doh:

I'm twisted. For some crazy reason I still believe that people will admit they dont know 90% of this story and that any opinion derived from it is jaded speculation.

[fcspikeit]

He didn't deny "talking" to Cutler. He said that he didn't recall "that" conversation.

Can't you see that those are two completely separate issues?

If everytime I didn't remember something my wife told me I said "I don't remember that conversation" she replied with "How can you say that, you talked to me yesterday!" I'd be divorced in a week.

Can't you see that he first said he hadn't talked to Cutler at all after Shanahan?

"I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

After he denies it he realizes he just lied and says he doesn't remember...

[fcspikeit]

Bowlen is technically right as how can he recall a conversation that physically could never have happened when Cutler was not in town from Dec 29 until February. This comes from Cook not Cutler. Cutler has not been quoted as saying he felt Bowlen mislead him that I know of. It is sad to a degree that Bowlen can't remember these facts though.

Whether they "met" in person or met over the phone doesn't matter..

The point is it is clear Bowlen talked to Jay after Shanahan was fired. Him saying he didn't talk to Cutler after Shanahan was fired simply isn't true..

[NightTrainLayne]

Can't you see that he first said he hadn't talked to Cutler at all after Shanahan?

"I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

After he denies it he realizes he just lied and says he doesn't remember...

You are finding what you are looking for. No big deal.

I wasn't there so I don't know one way or the other, but I know I've been in situations before where I had "a" conversation, but that the other party says that I said something that I didn't and/or stretched what I said to fit what they wanted it to.

That's pretty common in communication between human beings, and I'm reticent to every assume or accuse someone of being a liar when I wasn't even privy to the conversation.

[CoachChaz]

I cant remember what I told my kids last week and I'm about half Pat's age and am just a Sales manager

[LRtagger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at Mike's final press conference, didnt Bowlen say he spoke with Jay about the situation and how the team would move forward?

[fcspikeit]

I cant remember what I told my kids last week and I'm about half Pat's age and am just a Sales manager

I don't remember what I told my wife and kids this morning.. :D

The thing is it was reported Jay was upset when he called Ellis, then the report said it was a calmer tone when Bowlen called and talked to him..

Now, beings it was a potentially hot situation. Bowlen would have thought out how to handled the situation and what exactly to say to Jay. Therefore I can't see someone forgetting that. Beings he Called Cutler it wasn't as if he was caught off guard.. So why would he have called Jay without first planning his approach with him to defuse the situation?

Therefore I don't believe he could have simply forgot what he said...


Cutler was rumored to have not returned McDaniels calls. Many here were running him down then. The same people who are running him down now. McDaniels said there has been a pattern of none returned phone calls with Cutler the last 2 weeks.. The 2 weeks after the trade talks.

So at the time so many were accusing Cutler of being spoiled, they were simply looking for a reason to come down on Cutler.. This is no different... People who have their mind made up hear what they want to hear.. I don't expect to change their mind. The only reason I am posting at all is so those who might still be on the fence can see the truth..

A lot of fans haven't been fallowing this from the beginning. This is particularly true with fans from other teams. They see Bowlens comment about not even talking to Cutler and just assume Cutler is making stuff up. they don't know it was well documented and discussed to length here that Bowlen most certainly did talk to Cutler.

Even those who have something against Jay where taking it as fact Cutler had talked to Bowlen. They of course where saying he had no say in who the coach should be and he should keep his mouth shut, but none the less they didn't dispute the fact the 2 had talked.. Because of articles saying they did and Bowlens own comments.. Now they want to pretend the conversation never happened.. Beings they are choosing to do that I know their mind is made up and they will pick and choose whatever they can to support their stance. But I feel it is important those who haven't been following this as close as a lot of us here, know Bowlen did in fact talk to Cutler and it was accepted as fact Bowlen had including him to some degree in the coaching search.

[weazel]

I dont believe a single thing an agent say's. Agents are the scum of the earth. They are just below scalpers.

[fcspikeit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at Mike's final press conference, didnt Bowlen say he spoke with Jay about the situation and how the team would move forward?

Yes he did.. IIIRC that's when he said Jay is the man around here now..

That's also when he said he would keep the Goodmans on.., He chose to forget saying that as well...

So do I believe he would have said he was keeping Bates on then later changed his mind? Why not? He did that with the Goodmans...

[fcspikeit]

I dont believe a single thing an agent say's. Agents are the scum of the earth. They are just below scalpers.

Agents main job is to make their clients money.. They have been known to lie to get what they want.. I wouldn't be willing to stake an argument off what an agent said. Bowlen himself publicly said he talked to Cutler after Mike was fired. At the very least he implied that. I only say that because I don't have the transcript of his conference when Mike was fired in front of me at this time.

However it was surly reported he did call Jay and the 2 discussed the situation.

[nthngd2say]

Agents main job is to make their clients money.. They have been known to lie to get what they want.. I wouldn't be willing to stake an argument off what an agent said. Bowlen himself publicly said he talked to Cutler after Mike was fired. At the very least he implied that. I only say that because I don't have the transcript of his conference when Mike was fired in front of me at this time.

However it was surly reported he did call Jay and the 2 discussed the situation.

You are correct sir [and others]. I found the transcript of the Bowlen/Shanahan press conference from 12/31: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11346088

On whether he has talked with any of the players and gotten their reactions

"I talked to (QB) Jay Cutler, and Jay understood the conversation. I talked to him this morning. I didn't get any negative feedback. I think he understands enough about the business of football, the game of football, that there are going to be coaching changes and changes in organizations. I didn't sense that Jay had any negative feelings about it, and I'm sure he is very interested in who is going to be the next head coach. Obviously, he is the man around here now, so I will be talking with Jay."

[fcspikeit]

You are correct sir [and others]. I found the transcript of the Bowlen/Shanahan press conference from 12/31: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11346088

On whether he has talked with any of the players and gotten their reactions

"I talked to (QB) Jay Cutler, and Jay understood the conversation. I talked to him this morning. I didn't get any negative feedback. I think he understands enough about the business of football, the game of football, that there are going to be coaching changes and changes in organizations. I didn't sense that Jay had any negative feelings about it, and I'm sure he is very interested in who is going to be the next head coach. Obviously, he is the man around here now, so I will be talking with Jay."


Just to show I am not biased against Bowlen he also said this in the same conference..


On whether he will keep coaches and personnel staff regardless of head coach decision

"I don't anticipate that we will be keeping any members of the coaching staff. Nothing will change in the personnel department."

We don't know what he Implied to Cutler over the phone but he made it sound as if none of the coaches would be retained in this press conference.

He did however say, "Nothing will change in the personnel department."

If his comments are to clear him in regards to Bates, they must also condemn him in regards to the Goodmans... :coffee:

I wonder if he also conveniently forgot saying that as well?

[rcsodak]

Just to show I am not biased against Bowlen he also said this in the same conference..



We don't know what he Implied to Cutler over the phone but he made it sound as if none of the coaches would be retained in this press conference.

He did however say, "Nothing will change in the personnel department."

If his comments are to clear him in regards to Bates, they must also condemn him in regards to the Goodmans... :coffee:

I wonder if he also conveniently forgot saying that as well?

:shocked:

OMG!!!!!

Bowlen changed his mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Denver27og]

I was playing texas holdem at a friends house... there was this guy there he mentioned he played for the broncos... guess who it was.... FLOYD LITTLE!!! i live in maryland... hes deff a cool guy

[Denver27og]

and oh yea... he thinks mcdick and pat bowlen are idiots for considering trading cutler... wtf

[Superchop 7]

Seems to me,

Bowlen is a lawyer.

Cook is a lawyer.

Lawyers are parallel with used car salesmen when it comes to the truth.


Chances are......Jays version is the "actual" truth.

[omac]

Just to recap the posts ....

Bus Cook said ...

Bus Cook, Cutler's agent, said on Monday morning: "Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

Bowlen said ....

Bowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

But in a much older article, after Shanahan was fired, Bowlen was quoted as saying ....

"I talked to (QB) Jay Cutler, and Jay understood the conversation. I talked to him this morning. I didn't get any negative feedback. I think he understands enough about the business of football, the game of football, that there are going to be coaching changes and changes in organizations. I didn't sense that Jay had any negative feelings about it, and I'm sure he is very interested in who is going to be the next head coach. Obviously, he is the man around here now, so I will be talking with Jay."

Cook said they talked; Bowlen said they didn't; the older article quoted Bowlen as saying they talked.

If Bowlen really can't remember a conversation like that with his franchise QB after the coach was fired ... doubt it, though. He's just probably playing the game, just like McDaniels, Cook, and Cutler are.

[atwater27]

Just to recap the posts ....

Bus Cook said ...

Bus Cook, Cutler's agent, said on Monday morning: "Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

Bowlen said ....

Bowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

But in a much older article, after Shanahan was fired, Bowlen was quoted as saying ....

"I talked to (QB) Jay Cutler, and Jay understood the conversation. I talked to him this morning. I didn't get any negative feedback. I think he understands enough about the business of football, the game of football, that there are going to be coaching changes and changes in organizations. I didn't sense that Jay had any negative feelings about it, and I'm sure he is very interested in who is going to be the next head coach. Obviously, he is the man around here now, so I will be talking with Jay."

Cook said they talked; Bowlen said they didn't; the older article quoted Bowlen as saying they talked.

If Bowlen really can't remember a conversation like that with his franchise QB after the coach was fired ... doubt it, though. He's just probably playing the game, just like McDaniels, Cook, and Cutler are.

Exactly! In situations like this, I will side with the little guy every time.