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View Full Version : According to Pat Kirwan, Cutler is worth 2 firsts and a player.



lex
03-17-2009, 10:00 PM
Just thought Id pass this on before ****edit***. Pat Kirwan on moving the chains said that he is worth this based on production, age, and contract. He presented this idea to his co-host Tim Ryan as if Ryan was with the Browns and Ryan would have gladly given Quinn, the #5, and a second next year. But thats in a vacuum without others bidding.

Just an FYI, for those wondering what to expect for Cutler in trade value. Theres a lot of ideas kicked around but Kirwan should be as solid as anyone on this.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-17-2009, 10:07 PM
Pat put his thinking cap on today. Nice. Welcome back Lex. You stunna.

BoltsOwnU
03-17-2009, 11:09 PM
Seriously, two first round picks and a player for a QB that hasn't accomplished diddly, ever, at any level and is a total headcase?

Good luck with that kool aid. Cutler is the second coming of Jeff George. Million dollar arm, ten cent brain.

I feel bad for the dysfunction hitting your team, but thinking Cutler would garner more than a franchise tag might is patently absurd.

Foochacho
03-17-2009, 11:10 PM
Casey will want a new contract if we trade for Quinn. Since he would then have to have a flaming homo reaching at his crotch for every snap.

slim
03-17-2009, 11:11 PM
Seriously, two first round picks and a player for a QB that hasn't accomplished diddly, ever, at any level and is a total headcase?

Good luck with that kool aid. Cutler is the second coming of Jeff George. Million dollar arm, ten cent brain.

I feel bad for the dysfunction hitting your team, but thinking Cutler would garner more than a franchise tag might is patently absurd.

How did the playoffs work out for your guys last year?

Actually, how did they work out for the past 30 years?

Foochacho
03-17-2009, 11:12 PM
wow, I just highfived a bolt. what the **** cutler look what you made me do.:tsk:

Requiem / The Dagda
03-17-2009, 11:12 PM
Chargers haven't been cool since John Madden coached 'em.

lex
03-17-2009, 11:12 PM
Seriously, two first round picks and a player for a QB that hasn't accomplished diddly, ever, at any level and is a total headcase?

Good luck with that kool aid. Cutler is the second coming of Jeff George. Million dollar arm, ten cent brain.

I feel bad for the dysfunction hitting your team, but thinking Cutler would garner more than a franchise tag might is patently absurd.

Clown, this isnt from some Bronco fan. Take it up with Kirwan. But before you do that, you might want to look into his background. And, btw, Cutler has already surpassed Georges best season and George played in the run and shoot. Nice try but dont come back unless you have something to say with some validity.

And, nice. JRWiz reveals his ignorance on such matters by high fiving a Bolts fan. LOL. Does it get any better? Its too easy.

WARHORSE
03-17-2009, 11:54 PM
Seriously, two first round picks and a player for a QB that hasn't accomplished diddly, ever, at any level and is a total headcase?

Good luck with that kool aid. Cutler is the second coming of Jeff George. Million dollar arm, ten cent brain.

I feel bad for the dysfunction hitting your team, but thinking Cutler would garner more than a franchise tag might is patently absurd.


Go back to your barn clown. At least we dont use our quarterbacks forehead for an emergency landing strip for 747s in trouble.

Funny how every team in the land is trying to get a hold of Cutler.

Why would they want Jeff George? Or a head case?



Cutler should have been born in Philly. Competetive and stubborn. He wants to win first and foremost, and aint gonna take no crap from nobody. Nobody.

WARHORSE
03-17-2009, 11:55 PM
Chargers haven't been cool since John Madden coached 'em.


Chargers have never been cool, and they SUCK.......always have.

BigAL56
03-18-2009, 01:31 AM
At least we dont use our quarterbacks forehead for an emergency landing strip for 747s in trouble.


ahahahahahahahaha

Shazam!
03-18-2009, 01:34 AM
Chargers have never been cool, and they SUCK.......always have.

I'm going to the bathroom to make a Charger... brb.

DenBronx
03-18-2009, 02:03 AM
I'm going to the bathroom to make a Charger... brb.

which one are you making? remember it all starts with the qb. id call the first turd rivers....

BoltsOwnU
03-18-2009, 01:03 PM
Wow, watching you all rally around a perennial loser like this is a smack thread tells me just how low this franchise and its fanbase are feeling just now.

"All the teams calling for Cutler"?!? Don't make me laugh. That phone isn't ringing.

In any event, I note no one here was dumb enough to even try to refute the truth of my original post, which basically pointed out that anyone thinking Cutler will get Denver two 1st rounders and a player, Kirwan or not, is completely on drugs.

Jump on the bolts all you like, but you guys have been getting owned by us for a while now. So, either hop in the Bronco-Time Machine and go back to the 90's, or live in the presnet and hope your team can rise out of the current dysfunction.

If you can't be straight about what's happening with your franchise right now, then fine, wear the homer glasses. I just hope you guys sort it out becasue you make for a better opponent.

BroncoNut
03-18-2009, 01:12 PM
:hotcarl:

lex
03-18-2009, 01:15 PM
Anyway, there it is in black and white whether dolts "fans" like it or not. 2 firsts (3600 pts) and a player (eg Quinn).

BeefStew25
03-18-2009, 01:17 PM
Lex, I agree with you.

It doesn't take 10 teams. It just takes one. Take a flier on a possible dud in the draft? Or get a guy if anything can hang numbers?

silkamilkamonico
03-18-2009, 01:18 PM
IMHO, we need to get what we can for him. We had Cassel and 2 first rounders and that went through the wayside.

I fear Cutler might try and sabotage the team next season if he's in Denver because he doesn't like McDaniels, and considering Denver's 'rebuilding from a rebuilding year', get something of worth and leave it at that.

eessydo
03-18-2009, 01:20 PM
"All the teams calling for Cutler"?!? Don't make me laugh. That phone isn't ringing.

In any event, I note no one here was dumb enough to even try to refute the truth of my original post, which basically pointed out that anyone thinking Cutler will get Denver two 1st rounders and a player, Kirwan or not, is completely on drugs.

First of all the phone is ringing. Are you trying to tell me teams like Tampa, Carolina, the Jets, Chicago, Detroit and the 49ers aren't trying to figure something out to offer? Hell you might toss the Rams in that deal. You need to be real with your assessment.

second, the benchmark for this deal was the Jeff George deal. Everyone thinks Cutler clearly has more potential than Jeff George did at this point in his career (stating the obvious, but I guess I need to for a bolts fan).

That deal was the following:

1rst and a 3rd the year of the trade and a Conditional 2nd rounder that could become a 1rst based on playing time, etc the following year. That eventually turned into a 1rst rounder due to Georges production that year.

So that makes two 1rst rounders and a 3rd rounder. That is about what Cutler is worth at this point with far less downside than George based on his stats and play to date.

Do a little research before you chirp!

lex
03-18-2009, 01:21 PM
IMHO, we need to get what we can for him. We had Cassel and 2 first rounders and that went through the wayside.

I fear Cutler might try and sabotage the team next season if he's in Denver because he doesn't like McDaniels, and considering Denver's 'rebuilding from a rebuilding year', get something of worth and leave it at that.

Quinn is actually one of the QBs I wouldnt mind. He is no where close to as talented to Cutler at passing but he is probably a lot more judicious with the ball. He's tough, very smart, and has some mobility like Cutler. If we made the deal with Cleveland for 2 firsts (including their #5) and Quinn...or the #5, Quinn, and Rogers, it would be something to strongly consider.

silkamilkamonico
03-18-2009, 01:25 PM
Quinn is actually one of the QBs I wouldnt mind. He is no where close to as talented to Cutler at passing but he is probably a lot more judicious with the ball. He's tough, very smart, and has some mobility like Cutler. If we made the deal with Cleveland for 2 firsts (including their #5) and Quinn...or the #5, Quinn, and Rogers, it would be something to strongly consider.

That would be a great deal if we could get Rogers to commit to the organization.

Cutler's uber-talented but cerebral outranks uber-talent in the system McDaniels is implementing. Quinn, even though I can't stand the guy wouldn't be a bad building block for that offense.

hotcarl
03-18-2009, 01:26 PM
Wow, watching you all rally around a perennial loser like this is a smack thread tells me just how low this franchise and its fanbase are feeling just now.

"All the teams calling for Cutler"?!? Don't make me laugh. That phone isn't ringing.

In any event, I note no one here was dumb enough to even try to refute the truth of my original post, which basically pointed out that anyone thinking Cutler will get Denver two 1st rounders and a player, Kirwan or not, is completely on drugs.

Jump on the bolts all you like, but you guys have been getting owned by us for a while now. So, either hop in the Bronco-Time Machine and go back to the 90's, or live in the presnet and hope your team can rise out of the current dysfunction.

If you can't be straight about what's happening with your franchise right now, then fine, wear the homer glasses. I just hope you guys sort it out becasue you make for a better opponent.


this is the best post in this thread

nthngd2say
03-18-2009, 02:04 PM
Wow, watching you all rally around a perennial loser like this is a smack thread tells me just how low this franchise and its fanbase are feeling just now.

"All the teams calling for Cutler"?!? Don't make me laugh. That phone isn't ringing.

In any event, I note no one here was dumb enough to even try to refute the truth of my original post, which basically pointed out that anyone thinking Cutler will get Denver two 1st rounders and a player, Kirwan or not, is completely on drugs.

Jump on the bolts all you like, but you guys have been getting owned by us for a while now. So, either hop in the Bronco-Time Machine and go back to the 90's, or live in the presnet and hope your team can rise out of the current dysfunction.

If you can't be straight about what's happening with your franchise right now, then fine, wear the homer glasses. I just hope you guys sort it out becasue you make for a better opponent.

I guess I'm dumb enough... Kirwan and John Clayton have both reported that Cutler is worth multiple high draft picks aside from the Lions and Bucs offering their #1 picks as part of packages - which were turned down. So what you stated is not accurate or based on fact but your opinion. If your opinion is that Cutler isn't worth multiple picks that's just your opinion [which no one can argue since its your opinion] but that's not based on facts.

To say the Bolts have owned us "for a while now' also is your opinion. Since 2000, the series has been close with some dominate years for both teams:
Year W-L Home Away
2008 - 1-1 39-38 21-52
2007 - 0-2 3-41 3-23
2006 - 0-2 27-35 20-48
2005 - 2-0 20-17 23-7
2004 - 1-1 23-13 17-20
2003 - 2-0 37-8 37-13
2002 - 1-1 26-9 27-30
2001 - 1-1 26-16 27-10
2000 - 2-0 38-37 21-7
Overall: Broncos 10-8. Home Broncos 7-2; Bolts 6-3.
Total points: Broncos 418, Bolts 441

2006-2007 were good years for the Bolts but so was 2000, 2003 & 2005 for the Broncos. End result: no SuperBowl for either teams.

If Cutler, in your opinion, isn't worth anything I guess the same can be said for Rivers. Their stats are very close for Cutler starting fewer games, not having LT, and having a pathetic defense for all 37 games:
Gms Yards TD INT Rating Fumble
Cutler 37 9024 54 37 87.1 8
Rivers 48 10697 78 36 92.9 12

weazel
03-18-2009, 02:04 PM
Seriously, two first round picks and a player for a QB that hasn't accomplished diddly, ever, at any level and is a total headcase?

Good luck with that kool aid. Cutler is the second coming of Jeff George. Million dollar arm, ten cent brain.

I feel bad for the dysfunction hitting your team, but thinking Cutler would garner more than a franchise tag might is patently absurd.

I feel bad for the dysfunction that has riddled your organization for the last 30 years.

tough break, bud.

getlynched47
03-18-2009, 02:06 PM
Cutler should not, and will not be traded IMO. Period.

WARHORSE
03-18-2009, 02:18 PM
Wow, watching you all rally around a perennial loser like this is a smack thread tells me just how low this franchise and its fanbase are feeling just now.

"All the teams calling for Cutler"?!? Don't make me laugh. That phone isn't ringing.

In any event, I note no one here was dumb enough to even try to refute the truth of my original post, which basically pointed out that anyone thinking Cutler will get Denver two 1st rounders and a player, Kirwan or not, is completely on drugs.

Jump on the bolts all you like, but you guys have been getting owned by us for a while now. So, either hop in the Bronco-Time Machine and go back to the 90's, or live in the presnet and hope your team can rise out of the current dysfunction.

If you can't be straight about what's happening with your franchise right now, then fine, wear the homer glasses. I just hope you guys sort it out becasue you make for a better opponent.

You do read the newspaper dont you? Watch TV?

Brush the mullet out of your eyes and turn off the blaring hillbilly music so you can actually see and hear something.

WARHORSE
03-18-2009, 02:19 PM
this is the best post in this thread


Always knew you were a Dolt fan.

BroncoNut
03-18-2009, 02:36 PM
I guess I'm dumb enough... Kirwan and John Clayton have both reported that Cutler is worth multiple high draft picks aside from the Lions and Bucs offering their #1 picks as part of packages - which were turned down. So what you stated is not accurate or based on fact but your opinion. If your opinion is that Cutler isn't worth multiple picks that's just your opinion [which no one can argue since its your opinion] but that's not based on facts.

To say the Bolts have owned us "for a while now' also is your opinion. Since 2000, the series has been close with some dominate years for both teams:
Year W-L Home Away
2008 - 1-1 39-38 21-52
2007 - 0-2 3-41 3-23
2006 - 0-2 27-35 20-48
2005 - 2-0 20-17 23-7
2004 - 1-1 23-13 17-20
2003 - 2-0 37-8 37-13
2002 - 1-1 26-9 27-30
2001 - 1-1 26-16 27-10
2000 - 2-0 38-37 21-7
Overall: Broncos 10-8. Home Broncos 7-2; Bolts 6-3.
Total points: Broncos 418, Bolts 441

2006-2007 were good years for the Bolts but so was 2000, 2003 & 2005 for the Broncos. End result: no SuperBowl for either teams.

If Cutler, in your opinion, isn't worth anything I guess the same can be said for Rivers. Their stats are very close for Cutler starting fewer games, not having LT, and having a pathetic defense for all 37 games:
Gms Yards TD INT Rating Fumble
Cutler 37 9024 54 37 87.1 8
Rivers 48 10697 78 36 92.9 12

Now THAT is owning someone. Good post

KCL
03-18-2009, 02:41 PM
You do read the newspaper dont you? Watch TV?

Brush the mullet out of your eyes and turn off the blaring hillbilly music so you can actually see and hear something.

When did BoltsOwnU become a Chiefs fan? :shocked:

DenBronx
03-18-2009, 02:47 PM
did boltfan leave with his tail tucked between his legs? he's been pretty quiet since nthngd2say brought out those stats.

DenBronx
03-18-2009, 02:48 PM
i also think cutler is worth a player and two first rounders. quinn would be ideal but cleveland is also going to need to throw in their first this and next year.

hotcarl
03-18-2009, 03:08 PM
Always knew you were a Dolt fan.

you arent real bright are ya?

just a good post, nothing more.

DenBronx
03-18-2009, 03:27 PM
ESPN insider is suggesting Cutler for Peppers. I wouldnt do it straight up for Peppers. Maybe if they threw in a 1st rounder. Then send a 3rd to Cleveland for Dereck Anderson on a 3 year rental. Draft a stud QB in one of those 3 years.

Cut Buckhalter and his drug problems and sign Moreno and Cushing in the 1st and maybe Ron Brace in the 2nd.

TXBRONC
03-18-2009, 03:33 PM
ESPN insider is suggesting Cutler for Peppers. I wouldnt do it straight up for Peppers. Maybe if they threw in a 1st rounder. Then send a 3rd to Cleveland for Dereck Anderson on a 3 year rental. Draft a stud QB in one of those 3 years.

Cut Buckhalter and his drug problems and sign Moreno and Cushing in the 1st and maybe Ron Brace in the 2nd.

Trades like this one make no sense at all, adding Peppers as good as would creates a bigger problem at quarterback, I don't think Anderson or Simms would be the answer.

nthngd2say
03-18-2009, 04:27 PM
Wow, watching you all rally around a perennial loser like this is a smack thread tells me just how low this franchise and its fanbase are feeling just now.

"All the teams calling for Cutler"?!? Don't make me laugh. That phone isn't ringing.

In any event, I note no one here was dumb enough to even try to refute the truth of my original post, which basically pointed out that anyone thinking Cutler will get Denver two 1st rounders and a player, Kirwan or not, is completely on drugs.

Jump on the bolts all you like, but you guys have been getting owned by us for a while now. So, either hop in the Bronco-Time Machine and go back to the 90's, or live in the presnet and hope your team can rise out of the current dysfunction.

If you can't be straight about what's happening with your franchise right now, then fine, wear the homer glasses. I just hope you guys sort it out becasue you make for a better opponent.

Below are a couple of links to other reports regarding Cutler's value.

You mentioned previously "thinking Cutler would garner more than a franchise tag might is patently absurd" which is contradictory to your opinion. For any team to franchise a player, they'd owe him the average of the top 5 salaries in the NFL for his position. Second, any team that would then try to sign Cutler would owe the Broncos two 1st round picks if the Broncos chose to not match the offer as the franchise tag gives the original team the right to match as well. The franchise tag is also not needed as Cutler still has three years on his original contract but I assume you were just using that example for argument's sake. But that argument says Cutler is worth two 1st rounders and a top 5 salary [unless the new team resigns Cutler to a new contract].

I also believe that based on the couple of links below that the Broncos phone may indeed not be ringing off the hook as you said because the many teams said to be interested are trying to figure out how to pull the trade off as none of them have all the pieces needed to get Cutler. It appears that many others are "completely on drugs" as you stated along with Kirwan.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-03-haugh-onbears-chicagomar03,0,7412783.column - 18th overall, 3rd rounder and Orton
http://www.nbcchicago.com/sports/football/bears/A-Cutler-Above-the-Rest.html Two 1st rounders and Orton
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090318/COLUMNIST0202/903180419/1002/SPORTS 30th overall, 2nd rounder next year
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3984758 1st & 3rd: John Clayton - ESPN
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/953058.html 25th overall & Pennington for starters. 2nd rounder and/or Henne
http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/41371 22nd overall just to start
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/article984079.ece 19th overall and a 3rd
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/sports/football/17nfl.html?ref=sports 17th overall pick not enough...
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2009/03/16/2009-03-16_jets_keeping_close_eye_on_denver_broncos-1.html Jets would need help - 17th overall not enough
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1237365139165340.xml&coll=2 Brady Quinn not enough, Browns would need a 3rd teams help
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f4df92&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true 2 - 1st rounders and a player: Pat kirwan NFL.com - It will take time for any of these guys to develop in the NFL and, as we all know, coaches and front offices don't have the luxury of time. If Stafford is potentially the first pick in the draft, then Cutler is worth more than him on sheer football ability. Factoring in his age and tradable contract, Cutler is worth a second first-round pick.
This notion was confirmed Monday night when a former NFL general manager said to me: "Cutler goes for two No. 1 picks and a player, or he doesn't go at all."

Overtime
03-18-2009, 04:44 PM
Just thought Id pass this on before ****edit***. Pat Kirwan on moving the chains said that he is worth this based on production, age, and contract. He presented this idea to his co-host Tim Ryan as if Ryan was with the Browns and Ryan would have gladly given Quinn, the #5, and a second next year. But thats in a vacuum without others bidding.

Just an FYI, for those wondering what to expect for Cutler in trade value. Theres a lot of ideas kicked around but Kirwan should be as solid as anyone on this.

send him to Detroit. We can get the #1, the #20, and Kevin Jones.

then we draft Sanchez at #1, and some defense with #20.

nthngd2say
03-18-2009, 04:48 PM
send him to Detroit. We can get the #1, the #20, and Kevin Jones.

then we draft Sanchez at #1, and some defense with #20.

The #1 & #20 fit the requirements but Kevin Jones is with the Bears or a free agent [haven't cared to look]. The Broncos have been said to not want the #1 due to the $30 million in guarantees that come with drafting #1. Too much $ to invest for someone they can't be 100% sure of.

I could be wrong about Sanchez but due to his limited time at USC and other things, Stafford is the clear #1 QB if we drafted at #1. Many draft boards have been discussing that Freeman might also be passing Sanchez. Who knows for sure though. I also thought the Broncos prefer a veteran QB in return but thats media speculation.

Overtime
03-18-2009, 04:51 PM
The #1 & #20 fit the requirements but Kevin Jones is with the bears or a free agent [haven't cared to look]. The Broncos have been said to not want the #1 due to the $30 million in guarantees that come with drafting #1. Too much $ to invest for someone they can't be 100% sure of.

I could be wrong about Sanchez but due to his limited time at USC and other things, Stafford is the clear #1 QB if we drafted at #1. Many draft boards have been discussing that Freeman might also be passing Sanchez. Who knows for sure though.


oh give me a break! They gave crybaby a $48 million contract to sit on the damn bench for 11 games in 2006 before Plummer imploded.

Stafford sucks...he will be the biggest bust in this draft at the QB position...mark my words.

Sanchez is better than Stafford by ubermillion light years.

as for Jones, damn, i thought he was still with the Lions.

TXBRONC
03-18-2009, 04:55 PM
send him to Detroit. We can get the #1, the #20, and Kevin Jones.

then we draft Sanchez at #1, and some defense with #20.

Like there is some guarantee that Sanchez is going to make as pro quarterback. I've been USC fan for quite sometime but I'm not going kid myself they all make great NFL quarterbacks.

BoltsOwnU
03-18-2009, 05:00 PM
Below are a couple of links to other reports regarding Cutler's value.

You mentioned previously "thinking Cutler would garner more than a franchise tag might is patently absurd" which is contradictory to your opinion. For any team to franchise a player, they'd owe him the average of the top 5 salaries in the NFL for his position. Second, any team that would then try to sign Cutler would owe the Broncos two 1st round picks if the Broncos chose to not match the offer as the franchise tag gives the original team the right to match as well. The franchise tag is also not needed as Cutler still has three years on his original contract but I assume you were just using that example for argument's sake. But that argument says Cutler is worth two 1st rounders and a top 5 salary [unless the new team resigns Cutler to a new contract].

I also believe that based on the couple of links below that the Broncos phone may indeed not be ringing off the hook as you said because the many teams said to be interested are trying to figure out how to pull the trade off as none of them have all the pieces needed to get Cutler. It appears that many others are "completely on drugs" as you stated along with Kirwan.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-03-haugh-onbears-chicagomar03,0,7412783.column - 18th overall, 3rd rounder and Orton
http://www.nbcchicago.com/sports/football/bears/A-Cutler-Above-the-Rest.html Two 1st rounders and Orton
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090318/COLUMNIST0202/903180419/1002/SPORTS 30th overall, 2nd rounder next year
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3984758 1st & 3rd: John Clayton - ESPN
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/953058.html 25th overall & Pennington for starters. 2nd rounder and/or Henne
http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/41371 22nd overall just to start
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/article984079.ece 19th overall and a 3rd
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/sports/football/17nfl.html?ref=sports 17th overall pick not enough...
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2009/03/16/2009-03-16_jets_keeping_close_eye_on_denver_broncos-1.html Jets would need help - 17th overall not enough
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1237365139165340.xml&coll=2 Brady Quinn not enough, Browns would need a 3rd teams help
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f4df92&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true 2 - 1st rounders and a player: Pat kirwan NFL.com - It will take time for any of these guys to develop in the NFL and, as we all know, coaches and front offices don't have the luxury of time. If Stafford is potentially the first pick in the draft, then Cutler is worth more than him on sheer football ability. Factoring in his age and tradable contract, Cutler is worth a second first-round pick.
This notion was confirmed Monday night when a former NFL general manager said to me: "Cutler goes for two No. 1 picks and a player, or he doesn't go at all."

Press rumors? Come on man, they're selling papers to people like you. Besides, none of those suggest two first round picks and a starter as a value for Cutler other than the misguided soul that serves as the basis for this thread.

And, two first rounders, PLUS a player, is MORE than a franchise deal would net Denver. If he was franchised, as you pointed out, Denver would get two first round picks (in separate, consecutive drafts) if it chose not to match an offer from another team. So, someone is going to throw in more than that by adding a player for a nit wit that hasn't accomplished diddly squat and has major character issues??? The fact that Cutler's not getting a high salary won't matter to a trading team against draft picks.

He's worth a low first (maybe) or a high second round and a top starter. Denver will do well if it pulls a first for him. All the speculation is just that, speculation. Thinking you'll get two-first rounders is laughable, though crazier stuff has happened.

Medford Bronco
03-18-2009, 05:00 PM
Like there is some guarantee that Sanchez is going to make as pro quarterback. I've been USC fan for quite sometime but I'm not going kid myself they all make great NFL quarterbacks.

He proved a lot more in college than Mr Vanderbilt ever did:coffee:

nthngd2say
03-18-2009, 05:00 PM
oh give me a break! They gave crybaby a $48 million contract to sit on the damn bench for 11 games in 2006 before Plummer imploded.

Stafford sucks...he will be the biggest bust in this draft at the QB position...mark my words.

Sanchez is better than Stafford by ubermillion light years.

as for Jones, damn, i thought he was still with the Lions.

I have no clue who will be a better QB. I was only stating what the "draft" experts have said and what I have read in the Denver Post. I don't have an opinion on any of the three QBs.

Cutler was given $48 million simply because they had to - he was the 11th overall pick and that was what being drafted 11th paid. That's why the Broncos [and Lions] don't want the #1 pick because they would be required to pay that player over $30 million in guaranteed money. Of Cutler's $48 million I know $30 million of it is not guaranteed. So to trade Cutler and draft Stafford or Sanchez at #1 [most draft "experts" say only Stafford is worth the #1] the Broncos would be paying more guaranteed money for an unproven player.

nthngd2say
03-18-2009, 05:14 PM
Press rumors? Come on man, they're selling papers to people like you. Besides, none of those suggest two first round picks and a starter as a value for Cutler other than the misguided soul that serves as the basis for this thread.

And, two first rounders, PLUS a player, is MORE than a franchise deal would net Denver. If he was franchised, as you pointed out, Denver would get two first round picks (in separate, consecutive drafts) if it chose not to match an offer from another team. So, someone is going to throw in more than that by adding a player for a nit wit that hasn't accomplished diddly squat and has major character issues??? The fact that Cutler's not getting a high salary won't matter to a trading team against draft picks.

He's worth a low first (maybe) or a high second round and a top starter. Denver will do well if it pulls a first for him. All the speculation is just that, speculation. Thinking you'll get two-first rounders is laughable, though crazier stuff has happened.

Say what you will about the papers and people like me but they are getting their information from NFL sources. Kirwan and Clayton spoke to GMs regarding Cutler's value. That is not my opinion but the opinion of NFL GMs and sports writers. You are merely providing your opinion. Again, I cannot argue your opinion because its your opinion. I have not provided my opinion but the opinion of multiple credible sources. Its easy for you to down play the credibility of Kirwan and Clayton, among others, as that fits your argument but you provide nothing but opinion so far.

You refer to Cutler as a nit wit who has accomplished nothing but again that's your opinion even though I provided Cutler and River's career stats which are very similar. Both Pro Bowl players who have done stupid things on and off the field. Those statements and stats are not my opinion but facts. But its easy to just name call and state opinion without providing anything credible to your statements.

You say "The fact that Cutler's not getting a high salary won't matter to a trading team against draft picks". Really? Your opinion is that any team interested in Cutler doesn't care that he'd cost them less than $2 million for this season as compared to a top draft pick commanding significantly more than that or a QB already on their roster that isn't as good as Cutler who likely is also being paid more than $2 million? I don't get that but it is your opinion.

You say all of the writers stating Cutler would cost a minimum of a 1st plus additional picks and/or quality players is laughable but you don't provide anything as to why they aren't credible other than you deem them as such. Again your opinion which is not based on any facts.

TXBRONC
03-18-2009, 05:21 PM
He proved a lot more in college than Mr Vanderbilt ever did:coffee:

He had a lot more talent around him as well didn't he Med? :coffee:

Medford Bronco
03-18-2009, 05:22 PM
Seriously Cutler is not worth 2 first round picks and a player.

I like Pat Kirwan but I think he is just trying to stir up a hot story dontcha think?

IMO a first and a player would be sufficent. The cap money is more important anyways

TXBRONC
03-18-2009, 05:23 PM
Seriously Cutler is not worth 2 first round picks and a player.

I like Pat Kirwan but I think he is just trying to stir up a hot story dontcha think?

IMO a first and a player would be sufficent. The cap money is more important anyways

To each his own but I do agree with Kirwan.

Medford Bronco
03-18-2009, 05:29 PM
To each his own but I do agree with Kirwan.


based on what, what has Jay proved otherwise than being a tease as a player


Yards and QB rating do not mean squat.
It is about keeping the turnovers down and you know scoring pts.

Also remember Jay only went 2 of 16 games with commiting no turnovers. That is just horrendous. What is the excuse of the Cutlerites on this one.
The defense sucked. Well Kurt Warners defense sucked and they made the Super Bowl. He is a great QB and made excellent decisions for the most part.

top 5 offense means nothing if you are only 16th in pts scored.
There was plenty of talent on this offense as well, especially at the WR postion.

With Cutler I see Jeff George.
tons of talent with lacking in the brain department.

He sure has an agent that he is listening to very much so.

and if he "loved" his teammates he would not be asking for a trade.

pretty sad.

Personally I want him gone, really and I have never despised one of our players like this until now. Very childish behavior and he beleives he can get away with it because he has always been handed everything in life due to his immense talent.. Maybe he should look at how a Matt Cassel worked hard and made himself a decent NFL QB. Brains over talent any day of the week.

Champ Bailey and a 2nd rounder only got Clinton Portis and Bailey is one of the all time best Cbs and was in his prime when he came here in 04.

Yes if you can get it great, I am all for it. I just do not see it.

TXBRONC
03-18-2009, 05:43 PM
based on what, what has Jay proved otherwise than being a tease as a player


Yards and QB rating do not mean squat.
It is about keeping the turnovers down and you know scoring pts.

Also remember Jay only went 2 of 16 games with commiting no turnovers. That is just horrendous. What is the excuse of the Cutlerites on this one.
The defense sucked. Well Kurt Warners defense sucked and they made the Super Bowl. He is a great QB and made excellent decisions for the most part.

top 5 offense means nothing if you are only 16th in pts scored.
There was plenty of talent on this offense as well, especially at the WR postion.

With Cutler I see Jeff George.
tons of talent with lacking in the brain department.

He sure has an agent that he is listening to very much so.

and if he "loved" his teammates he would not be asking for a trade.

pretty sad.

Personally I want him gone, really and I have never despised one of our players like this until now. Very childish behavior and he beleives he can get away with it because he has always been handed everything in life due to his immense talent.. Maybe he should look at how a Matt Cassel worked hard and made himself a decent NFL QB. Brains over talent any day of the week.

Champ Bailey and a 2nd rounder only got Clinton Portis and Bailey is one of the all time best Cbs and was in his prime when he came here in 04.

Yes if you can get it great, I am all for it. I just do not see it.

You've made it clear many times over how you view Cutler nevertheless there aren't many quarterbacks that are young capable starters.

As far as Matt Cassel is concerned, one season make not a career. Let's see how he does if the Chiefs defense is bad.

Also the corner back position is not comparable to the quarterback position. Besides the Bailey-Portis trade was of equal value for players that could make an immediate impact on their teams. Now you tell what are going to get of equal value that could immediate impact?

nthngd2say
03-18-2009, 05:50 PM
Seriously Cutler is not worth 2 first round picks and a player.

I like Pat Kirwan but I think he is just trying to stir up a hot story dontcha think?

IMO a first and a player would be sufficent. The cap money is more important anyways

You may very well be right and I get that Kirwan's story has to be interesting. I am assuming that Kirwan was not knowingly being deceitful when he stated that he had spoken to NFL GM who said the price for Cutler would be two 1st and a player. I guess I am assuming that Kirwan has more knowledge and NFL sources than I do but I have no way to prove/disprove what he wrote.

I also don't dispute Cutler's short comings [INTs, decison making, off field antics] but he is a proven commodity and common sense to me says most NFL teams needing a QB would rather take a proven player like Cutler than take a chance with Stafford, Sanchez, or Freeman becoming a pro Bowl player like Cutler. That said, if those QBs [well, maybe not Freeman] are expected to go in the 1st round I made the assumption that Cutler would be worth a 1st and more since teams drafting QBs would prefer Cutler. Especially when they could pay Cutler less than $2 million this season compared to guaranteeing a large amount of $ to an unproven draft pick.

I would also say one team's "trash" is another teams treasure. I have no idea what we could get for Cutler and I doubt we'll trade him. I was just basing my posts on information from NFL sources and/or sports writers that I think would know more than me - though that's not really saying much.

BRONCOSFREAK765
03-19-2009, 03:02 AM
send him to Detroit. We can get the #1, the #20, and Kevin Jones.

then we draft Sanchez at #1, and some defense with #20.

If we did trade him to Detroit, I think we would trade the 1st overall pick for multiple draft picks. What sounds good to me is taking their 20th overall pick and their 1st next year. I would rather wait and grab a QB like Pat White or Curtis Painter in the 2nd or 3rd round.

dogfish
03-19-2009, 04:41 AM
based on what, what has Jay proved otherwise than being a tease as a player


Yards and QB rating do not mean squat.
It is about keeping the turnovers down and you know scoring pts.

Also remember Jay only went 2 of 16 games with commiting no turnovers. That is just horrendous. What is the excuse of the Cutlerites on this one.
The defense sucked. Well Kurt Warners defense sucked and they made the Super Bowl. He is a great QB and made excellent decisions for the most part.




come on med, you're honestly comparing cutler to kurt warner? he's played 12 years, of course he makes better decisions! his first three years as a starter, he threw 53 picks and lost 10 fumbles. . . . heck, last year he had 14 picks and lost 7 fumbles-- last year jay had 18 INTs and lost 2 fumbles. . . giving kurt one more turnover for the year than jay had. . .

how about carson palmer in '07? 20 INTs and 1 lost fumble, and he was in his 5th year. . . peyton manning threw 58 INTs his first three years, to go along with 6 lost fumbles. . . drew brees threw 31 picks his first two years as a starter, and 17 last year-- only one less than jay. . .

i'm sorry, i just don't think your expectations are very reasonable for a third year QB that had to throw the ball 616 times last year-- the only other QB that topped 600 attempts was brees. . . more attempts = more picks, at least usually. . .

don't get me wrong, i want him to make better decisions too, and i get just as disgusted when he turns it over. . . but at the end of the day, is it really fair to expect him to throw 600 passes on the year-- many with the game on the line-- and make smart decisions on every single one of them? you can't have it both ways. . . either he has to go out and try to be a playmaker, and take some chances, or he can be a game manager and play it safe. . . we could get a chad pennington type that hardly ever turns it over, but the problem is that his career averages are 2,800 yards, 17 TDs with 10 INTs and 2 lost fumbles per year. . . think we could have won many games with that kind of production from our QB last year? with a defense that gave up like 28 points per game? absolutely no chance. . .

you know how many games we won last year when cutler didn't throw multiple TDs? two. . . two games! know how many points we gave up in our losses, on average? over 33 points per game. . . he had to put up 350 yards and 4 TDs to barely beat san diego. . . 264 yards and 2 TDs to barely beat new orleans. . . 447 yards and 3 TDs to barely beat cleveland! 357 yards and 2 TDs to barely beat the jets. . . the _efense and special teams won us the tampa game, and that was about it-- one win. . . the rest of the season, cutler had to post big stats every single game, or we didn't win. . . period, simple as that. . . and by the end of the season we had seven backs on IR and our OC was calling ten draws and ten bubble screens a game to simulate some semblance of a short yardage/ground game. . . and with all that, he's supposed to go out there, put up about 350 yards and 3 TDs every week and not throw any bad picks? come on. . . joe montana, marino or peyton in their prime might be able to do that, but it's too much to expect of a guy in his second full season as a starter. . . . that's a first ballot HOFer at the peak of his career type of performance. . .


besides which, wasn't doogie dipshit supposed to come in and work with cutler, TEACH him to make better decisions and less mistakes? instead of replacing him with chris simms? or matt cassel. . . . we'll see just how well he does this year when he has to go out and WIN games, instead of just going out and not losing them, and relying on that belicheat defense. . . .

nthngd2say
03-19-2009, 08:55 AM
BoltsDontOwnU[/U];592143]Press rumors? Come on man, they're selling papers to people like you. Besides, none of those suggest two first round picks and a starter as a value for Cutler other than the misguided soul that serves as the basis for this thread.

And, two first rounders, PLUS a player, is MORE than a franchise deal would net Denver. If he was franchised, as you pointed out, Denver would get two first round picks (in separate, consecutive drafts) if it chose not to match an offer from another team. So, someone is going to throw in more than that by adding a player for a nit wit that hasn't accomplished diddly squat and has major character issues??? The fact that Cutler's not getting a high salary won't matter to a trading team against draft picks.

He's worth a low first (maybe) or a high second round and a top starter. Denver will do well if it pulls a first for him. All the speculation is just that, speculation. Thinking you'll get two-first rounders is laughable, though crazier stuff has happened.

I will preface my post by stating I understand that your opinions are definitely more accurate/credible than any sports writer and that I am just passing the time mostly. This article again mentions compensation being high and that four teams have called the Broncos. I understand that this article is no more credible than the other multiple articles I cited which mentioned the Bears, Bucs, Browns, Lions, Dolphins, Jets, and Vikings as interested as you clearly shot those down with your highly accurate and credible opinions. I also understand how ludicrous it is for these idiot sports writers to consider NFL executives as credible. I was considering writing Klis and maybe others asking that they consider your opinions for all future stories should they want to be considered credible and accurate rather than patently absurd.

An NFL source said at least four teams called the Broncos this week in hopes of sparking Cutler trade discussions. The Broncos, however, are not obligated to act on Cutler's request.
"They should be able to pick a quarterback off a roster and get two No. 1s — one this year and one next year," an NFL executive said.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11945847

Another article: The Jets haven't commented on their potential interest in Cutler, and they won't because of tampering restrictions, but they haven't ruled out the possibility of making an offer for the disgruntled quarterback, according to a league source. Translation: They're interested. The degree of interest isn't clear, but internal discussions on Cutler are ongoing. One Tannenbaum confidant said he suspects the GM already has placed a call to the Broncos. "The Jets own the 17th, 52nd and 76th picks in the upcoming draft. They'd have to surrender their first-round choice in a Cutler trade - and then some."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2009/03/18/2009-03-18_jets_may_turn_to_eric_mangini_and_browns.html

More non-opinion based and instantly inaccurate and not credible information with a patently absurd explanation why we haven't heard more specific non-opinion based information regarding why everyone besides you do or don't know what teams are interested in Cutler and what they are going to trade.

BoltsOwnU
03-19-2009, 11:52 AM
The NFL exec quoted is probably Pat Bowlen.

As far as the Jets or another team offering a first, I've never said THAT is ludicrous. Try to stick to my initial point. Two firsts and a player will NEVER happen, and for good reason. None of the "sources" you cite get you there.

weazel
03-19-2009, 11:56 AM
come on med, you're honestly comparing cutler to kurt warner? he's played 12 years, of course he makes better decisions! his first three years as a starter, he threw 53 picks and lost 10 fumbles. . . . heck, last year he had 14 picks and lost 7 fumbles-- last year jay had 18 INTs and lost 2 fumbles. . . giving kurt one more turnover for the year than jay had. . .

how about carson palmer in '07? 20 INTs and 1 lost fumble, and he was in his 5th year. . . peyton manning threw 58 INTs his first three years, to go along with 6 lost fumbles. . . drew brees threw 31 picks his first two years as a starter, and 17 last year-- only one less than jay. . .

i'm sorry, i just don't think your expectations are very reasonable for a third year QB that had to throw the ball 616 times last year-- the only other QB that topped 600 attempts was brees. . . more attempts = more picks, at least usually. . .

don't get me wrong, i want him to make better decisions too, and i get just as disgusted when he turns it over. . . but at the end of the day, is it really fair to expect him to throw 600 passes on the year-- many with the game on the line-- and make smart decisions on every single one of them? you can't have it both ways. . . either he has to go out and try to be a playmaker, and take some chances, or he can be a game manager and play it safe. . . we could get a chad pennington type that hardly ever turns it over, but the problem is that his career averages are 2,800 yards, 17 TDs with 10 INTs and 2 lost fumbles per year. . . think we could have won many games with that kind of production from our QB last year? with a defense that gave up like 28 points per game? absolutely no chance. . .

you know how many games we won last year when cutler didn't throw multiple TDs? two. . . two games! know how many points we gave up in our losses, on average? over 33 points per game. . . he had to put up 350 yards and 4 TDs to barely beat san diego. . . 264 yards and 2 TDs to barely beat new orleans. . . 447 yards and 3 TDs to barely beat cleveland! 357 yards and 2 TDs to barely beat the jets. . . the _efense and special teams won us the tampa game, and that was about it-- one win. . . the rest of the season, cutler had to post big stats every single game, or we didn't win. . . period, simple as that. . . and by the end of the season we had seven backs on IR and our OC was calling ten draws and ten bubble screens a game to simulate some semblance of a short yardage/ground game. . . and with all that, he's supposed to go out there, put up about 350 yards and 3 TDs every week and not throw any bad picks? come on. . . joe montana, marino or peyton in their prime might be able to do that, but it's too much to expect of a guy in his second full season as a starter. . . . that's a first ballot HOFer at the peak of his career type of performance. . .


besides which, wasn't doogie dipshit supposed to come in and work with cutler, TEACH him to make better decisions and less mistakes? instead of replacing him with chris simms? or matt cassel. . . . we'll see just how well he does this year when he has to go out and WIN games, instead of just going out and not losing them, and relying on that belicheat defense. . . .

what are Rivers stats his first 3 years? Im not arguing, I just want to see how he compares

nthngd2say
03-19-2009, 11:58 AM
The NFL exec quoted is probably Pat Bowlen.

As far as the Jets or another team offering a first, I've never said THAT is ludicrous. Try to stick to my initial point. Two firsts and a player will NEVER happen, and for good reason. None of the "sources" you cite get you there.

Thanks for your opinions

TXBRONC
03-19-2009, 12:00 PM
what are Rivers stats his first 3 years? Im not arguing, I just want to see how he compares

Rivers didn't start until his third season in the League.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 12:19 PM
Christ himself can say he thinks Cutler is worth 2 firsts and a player, but if every other team in the NFL disagrees then guess what...

...he's not worth that much.

nthngd2say
03-19-2009, 12:20 PM
The NFL exec quoted is probably Pat Bowlen.

As far as the Jets or another team offering a first, I've never said THAT is ludicrous. Try to stick to my initial point. Two firsts and a player will NEVER happen, and for good reason. None of the "sources" you cite get you there.

You had an initial point? I didn't realize you ever had a point. You certainly have proved your point that the phone isn't ringing for Cutler, that he's worth maybe a low 1st rounder or a 2nd, and that the Bolts "own us". Talk about drinking the kool aid.

nthngd2say
03-19-2009, 12:23 PM
Christ himself can say he thinks Cutler is worth 2 firsts and a player, but if every other team in the NFL disagrees then guess what...

...he's not worth that much.

Sure, I won't argue that the value depends on the buyer. I have no idea what Cutler's "true" value is. I wasn't stating my opinion though I was stating what NFL executives and sports writers with established credentials had said as the majority of the time we are inclined to believe them.

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 12:27 PM
Sure, I won't argue that the value depends on the buyer. I have no idea what Cutler's "true" value is. I wasn't stating my opinion though I was stating what NFL executives and sports writers with established credentials had said as the majority of the time we are inclined to believe them.

I guess the analogy I could use is this. If Kirwan told me the used car I have for sale is worth $10,000 and 31 people inquire about it and the best offer is $7000, well, then I guess Kirwan was wrong about the value.

He can say what he wants, but if the other 31 teams disagree with him, then I guess he's off base. So, like my used car...if we definitely want to get rid of Cutler, we can either take the best offer or hold onto him and hope something better comes along.

Lonestar
03-19-2009, 12:35 PM
Christ himself can say he thinks Cutler is worth 2 firsts and a player, but if every other team in the NFL disagrees then guess what...

...he's not worth that much.


IMHO he is if jay wants out of DEN that bad.. :laugh::laugh:

the cards are all in DEN's hand as we speak..

if he does not show up for mini camps the fines start..

anything he does negatively at this point diminishes his next contract .. whether it be ours or whom ever he may get traded to..

unless he is willing to set out the next three years he belongs to DEN.. and most likely be on the field or on the bench until it is roster bonus time AGAIN.. which is march 2012 IIRC..

the next couple of years on his contract are very favorable to DEN thanks to the rookie contract negotiated with Bus cook..

hey jay whos your daddy now?

nthngd2say
03-19-2009, 12:37 PM
I guess the analogy I could use is this. If Kirwan told me the used car I have for sale is worth $10,000 and 31 people inquire about it and the best offer is $7000, well, then I guess Kirwan was wrong about the value.

He can say what he wants, but if the other 31 teams disagree with him, then I guess he's off base. So, like my used car...if we definitely want to get rid of Cutler, we can either take the best offer or hold onto him and hope something better comes along.

I understand what you are saying and I don't disagree. If the Broncos ultimately decide Cutler must be traded then they are forced to take the best offer. Or if Cutler announces he'll hold out. Taking whatever they can get will also potentially only further the rapidly deteriorating opinion of the Broncos for many fans as the whole Denver Lions ridiculous argument will be raised again. Neither scenario I mentioned has happened thus far so I think - partially based on what has been said/written - that the Broncos hold the cards and any team's 1st rounder plus a vet QB is the minimum starting point. I admit that I have no idea what Cutler's value is and knowing that, I was using information that I considered more credible than my opinion. I also don't believe Cutler will be traded but I do understand that Cutler's value is very much subjective.

BroncoNut
03-19-2009, 12:38 PM
did boltfan leave with his tail tucked between his legs? he's been pretty quiet since nthngd2say brought out those stats.

I think he left with nthngd2say's dick shoved right up his ass

CoachChaz
03-19-2009, 12:43 PM
IMHO he is if jay wants out of DEN that bad.. :laugh::laugh:

the cards are all in DEN's hand as we speak..

if he does not show up for mini camps the fines start..

anything he does negatively at this point diminishes his next contract .. whether it be ours or whom ever he may get traded to..

unless he is willing to set out the next three years he belongs to DEN.. and most likely be on the field or on the bench until it is roster bonus time AGAIN.. which is march 2012 IIRC..

the next couple of years on his contract are very favorable to DEN thanks to the rookie contract negotiated with Bus cook..

hey jay whos your daddy now?

But we all know it will never come to that. No smart football guy would ever let a valuable trade chip sit and deteriorate if he can get quality help back in return.

BoltsOwnU
03-19-2009, 07:10 PM
I think he left with nthngd2say's dick shoved right up his ass

Really? I'm going to assume you are speaking from your experience with your fellow fan.:shocked:

Actually, a fair number of your fellow fans see what I'm saying and tend to agree. Nthgdsay or whatever his moniker is, elected to take up the Cutler mantle, with nothing more than a sole journalist's opinion, as support.:coffee:

nthngd2say
03-19-2009, 07:55 PM
Really? I'm going to assume you are speaking from your experience with your fellow fan.:shocked:

Actually, a fair number of your fellow fans see what I'm saying and tend to agree. Nthgdsay or whatever his moniker is, elected to take up the Cutler mantle, with nothing more than a sole journalist's opinion, as support.:coffee:

More intelligent thoughts from you to continue to support how much you value your own opinion.


You had an initial point? I didn't realize you ever had a point. You certainly have proved your point that the phone isn't ringing for Cutler, that he's worth maybe a low 1st rounder or a 2nd, and that the Bolts "own us". Talk about drinking the kool aid.:coffee:

BroncoNut
03-20-2009, 07:59 AM
More intelligent thoughts from you to continue to support how much you value your own opinion.

:coffee:

so you got a couple of salutes. good for you boltsownu or whatever your name is.

hasn't your cornhole had enough here? or no. Let me guess. You want more

claymore
03-20-2009, 08:28 AM
so you got a couple of salutes. good for you boltsownu or whatever your name is.

hasn't your cornhole had enough here? or no. Let me guess. You want more

You quoted the wrong person Douche Bag.

BoltsOwnU
03-20-2009, 11:49 AM
Priceless. You've got one Donkfan quoting himself to support his own posts and another quoting that same poster to make fun of me.

This is better than a smack thread.

Back to the point. You might get a first and a player for Cutler, might. Two firsts and a player? Never, in a million, jillion years. Bronconut has a better chance of actually kissing a girl than that happening.:D

getlynched47
03-20-2009, 11:57 AM
Contrary to the first reports, Cutler's value is going up instead of down like some predicted...

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-6-425/Bucs-might-be-out-of-ammo-for-Cutler-deal.html


Maybe they could have had Cutler for their first-round pick (No. 19 overall) back in February. Now that the rest of the league is watching the Cutler situation, the price tag suddenly has gone up and the Bucs probably don't have the ammunition to play in this game.


Tampa Bay does have a third-round pick, but that and a first-rounder are probably not nearly enough to get Cutler.

I LOL'ed when they said that Cutler's value was going down each day...

Experts :rolleyes:

nthngd2say
03-20-2009, 12:04 PM
Priceless. You've got one Donkfan quoting himself to support his own posts and another quoting that same poster to make fun of me.

This is better than a smack thread.

Back to the point. You might get a first and a player for Cutler, might. Two firsts and a player? Never, in a million, jillion years. Bronconut has a better chance of actually kissing a girl than that happening.:D

I quoted myself as you continue to choose to ignore that you were "patently absurd" in your previous assertions that no one was calling the Broncos about Cutler, that he was only worth a low 1st rounder [maybe] or a 2nd and the Bolts "own us".

But back to the point. Again you prove how much you value your own opinions and have nothing to prove your opinions. Someone was "dumb enough" to refute all of your posts yet all you offer is name calling and opinions. Priceless

nthngd2say
03-20-2009, 12:10 PM
Contrary to the first reports, Cutler's value is going up instead of down like some predicted...

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-6-425/Bucs-might-be-out-of-ammo-for-Cutler-deal.html





I LOL'ed when they said that Cutler's value was going down each day...

Experts :rolleyes:

Well... according to BoltsDontOwnU, those are just press rumors to sell papers to people like us because we are patently absurd and believe that these sports writers actually have NFL sources or possibly know more about what's going on in the NFL than us. Bowlen is also the "NFL source" so these stories have no credibility.

getlynched47
03-20-2009, 12:13 PM
Well... according to BoltsDontOwnU, those are just press rumors to sell papers to people like us because we are patently absurd and believe that these sports writers actually have NFL sources or possibly know more about what's going on in the NFL than us. Bowlen is also the "NFL source" so these stories have no credibility.

Dolt fans are retarded......

nthngd2say
03-20-2009, 12:33 PM
Dolt fans are retarded......

Yeah, I just don't get it. While the Bolts are an impressive 72-72 since 2000 [I don't have a time machine to travel back to the 90's] and the Broncos are only 85-59 during that same time span, there is no need for name calling. At least Bolts fans have 2006-2007 to remember as well as those great playoff games that resulted in zero SuperBowl appearances both seasons. I can understand wanting to fondly recall 2006-2007 for Bolts fans as their record for the other seasons this decade is 47-65.

BroncoNut
03-20-2009, 01:13 PM
this might be a stupid question, but can a trade be made for a current football player (ie; cutler) for draft picks next month, or can that only be done for 2010 draft?

Gridironchamp
03-20-2009, 01:14 PM
It doesn't matter what Kirwan or Denver thinks Cutler's value is... It's
what teams will be willing to give up for him.

No team will give up two firsts and a player for him. I doubt any team
just gives up two firsts for him.

Trades that have been rumored that won't happen:
Any trade with Calvin Johnson - Detroit isn't going to let him go.
The 1st and 20th pick for Jay Cutler - They'd give up way to much, and
Denver doesn't want the 1st pick.
The three way Clev, NYJ, Den deal - Clev. doesn't need Revis, and giving
up Quinn and the 5th pick to move down to the 17th is stupid.
Clev. giving up Rodgers, Quinn, and the 5th pick - Quinn's a first round
pick that was traded up for, so him and the 5th pick only is too much
let alone a dominant NT like Rodgers.

Trades that have been rumored that could happen:
Detroit gives up the 20th pick, 33rd pick, and 2010 2nd rounder for Cutler.
*The only two teams that would consider giving up two first rounders,
IMO, would be Tampa or Minn because their picks are decently low in
the first round and next years pick would also be low. I still wouldn't
hold my breath on it though.

Gridironchamp
03-20-2009, 06:45 PM
It doesn't matter what Kirwan or Denver thinks Cutler's value is... It's
what teams will be willing to give up for him.

No team will give up two firsts and a player for him. I doubt any team
just gives up two firsts for him.

Trades that have been rumored that won't happen:
Any trade with Calvin Johnson - Detroit isn't going to let him go.
The 1st and 20th pick for Jay Cutler - They'd give up way to much, and
Denver doesn't want the 1st pick.
The three way Clev, NYJ, Den deal - Clev. doesn't need Revis, and giving
up Quinn and the 5th pick to move down to the 17th is stupid.
Clev. giving up Rodgers, Quinn, and the 5th pick - Quinn's a first round
pick that was traded up for, so him and the 5th pick only is too much
let alone a dominant NT like Rodgers.

Trades that have been rumored that could happen:
Detroit gives up the 20th pick, 33rd pick, and 2010 2nd rounder for Cutler.
*The only two teams that would consider giving up two first rounders,
IMO, would be Tampa or Minn because their picks are decently low in
the first round and next years pick would also be low. I still wouldn't
hold my breath on it though.


Another trade I just saw someone suggest that I feel could be possible
is:Cutler for Peppers, Delhomme, and the Panthers' second round pick
this year.

EMB6903
03-20-2009, 07:30 PM
Jay Cutler isnt worth 2 1st rounders and a player?

do you realize how much Franchise quarterbacks are worth?

Ill bet Denver has already been offered 2 1sts and a player for Cutler

BoltsOwnU
03-21-2009, 06:03 PM
Jay Cutler isnt worth 2 1st rounders and a player?

do you realize how much Franchise quarterbacks are worth?

Ill bet Denver has already been offered 2 1sts and a player for Cutler

LOL ok.:rolleyes:

1st round pick (low) and a player makes sense. Two first rounders and Denver makes out like a bandit. Two first rounders AND a starter? Never.

TXBRONC
03-21-2009, 06:25 PM
LOL ok.:rolleyes:

1st round pick (low) and a player makes sense. Two first rounders and Denver makes out like a bandit. Two first rounders AND a starter? Never.

Well that's your opinion, but unless you're a GM you not in a position to be that emphatic.

broncohead
03-21-2009, 07:12 PM
LOL ok.:rolleyes:

1st round pick (low) and a player makes sense. Two first rounders and Denver makes out like a bandit. Two first rounders AND a starter? Never.

Bet Det would go through with their 2 firsts but it wouldn't be worth the cash for the first pick.

Watchthemiddle
03-21-2009, 07:20 PM
Jay Cutler isnt worth 2 1st rounders and a player?

do you realize how much Franchise quarterbacks are worth?

Ill bet Denver has already been offered 2 1sts and a player for Cutler

Who's to say Jay is a "franchise" QB?

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 07:25 PM
Who's to say Jay is a "franchise" QB?

Yeah, what's with this franchise label on him anyway?

broncohead
03-21-2009, 07:40 PM
Who's to say Jay is a "franchise" QB?

With the resent events your blind by your hate for him.

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 07:42 PM
With the resent events your blind by your hate for him.

And you might be blinded by your love for him. Your point?

I'm personally amazed at the lap dogs of Jay Cutler.

broncohead
03-21-2009, 07:55 PM
And you might be blinded by your love for him. Your point?

I'm personally amazed at the lap dogs of Jay Cutler.

I don't think I am. I haven't been for Jay or against him during this whole process but it's clear who the people are that are against him because they talk about him like he should be a 3rd string QB.

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 07:59 PM
And you might be blinded by your love for him. Your point?

I'm personally amazed at the lap dogs of Jay Cutler.

I am personally amazed at the haters for JC at this point. give him a Defense and a running game for crying out loud and see where his attitude goes from there.

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 07:59 PM
I don't think I am. I haven't been for Jay or against him during this whole process but it's clear who the people are that are against him because they talk about him like he should be a 3rd string QB.

Let me know where I said he wasn't a good quarterback.

He's good, but he's a frickin' whiner and a baby. His act is old and tired, and I'm amazed at how many people hold the team at fault. The "team." I hope all y'all are Lions fans, because that's where your savior might be headed.

atwater27
03-21-2009, 08:01 PM
Who's to say Jay is a "franchise" QB?

Everyone but you.

silkamilkamonico
03-21-2009, 08:04 PM
Trade Cutler for some pics. That way we have a better opportunity to improve what's actually important....a "team".

We'll just get another franchise QB in the next couple years.

TXBRONC
03-21-2009, 08:04 PM
Everyone but you.

If we're to believe McDaniels then obviously the organizations sees him a franchise quarterback.

broncohead
03-21-2009, 08:06 PM
Let me know where I said he wasn't a good quarterback.

He's good, but he's a frickin' whiner and a baby. His act is old and tired, and I'm amazed at how many people hold the team at fault. The "team." I hope all y'all are Lions fans, because that's where your savior might be headed.

Nowhere in the post was it directed to you. Also I never said that you didn't say he wasn't a good QB. What I do think is that he has a poor attitude and can't think for himself. To me he performs on the football field and is a "franchise QB." Spare me the W-L record because according to you it's about the "team" not one individual player. Yes he's being selfish but I believe it will pass once the season get underway.

TXBRONC
03-21-2009, 08:06 PM
Trade Cutler for some pics. That way we have a better opportunity to improve what's actually important....a "team".

We'll just get another franchise QB in the next couple years.

It took over 20 years to get our first franchise quarterback and then 10 to get our next one. Yeah they're easy to find. :rolleyes:

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 08:07 PM
Nowhere in the post was it directed to you. Also I never said that you didn't say he wasn't a good QB. What I do think is that he has a poor attitude and can't think for himself. To me he performs on the football field and is a "franchise QB." Spare me the W-L record because according to you it's about the "team" not one individual player. Yes he's being selfish but I believe it will pass once the season get underway.

Let me know where my post was personal.

Actually, let's talk about the W-L record, shall we, 17-20...what's Philip Rivers?

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 08:09 PM
This wasn't about me until you made it about me *******.

I sure hope ******* doesn't mean ******* :yardog:

silkamilkamonico
03-21-2009, 08:09 PM
It took over 20 years to get our first franchise quarterback and then 10 to get our next one. Yeah they easy to find. :rolleyes:

10? It took 7. Considering we went from 20, to then 7, we might be able to find our next franchise in the next few months.

AND we might have a better team.

Just think, we might actually have a winning record next year.

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 08:10 PM
It took over 20 years to get our first franchise quarterback and then 10 to get our next one. Yeah they easy to find. :rolleyes:

actually, I think silk makes a good point. i would like to see Jay stay, but I think he needs to be traded at this point. too much damage done.

silkamilkamonico
03-21-2009, 08:14 PM
actually, I think silk makes a good point. i would like to see Jay stay, but I think he needs to be traded at this point. too much damage done.

Believe it or not, I would love for Jay to work this out too, but I think he's going to be too proud to admit his mistake and swallow his pride.

He's forcing this situation to where it is and where it's going, not the organization.

broncohead
03-21-2009, 08:23 PM
Let me know where my post was personal.

Actually, let's talk about the W-L record, shall we, 17-20...what's Philip Rivers?

Anyone who has to look at a W-L record to see how good they are isn't a very good judge of talent imo.

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 08:24 PM
Anyone who has to look at a W-L record to see how good they are isn't a very good judge of talent imo.

lol.

Since we're reading into each other's posts...

Win-loss record means nothing, huh?

Jeff George rules! :woot:

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 08:24 PM
Anyone who has to look at a W-L record to see how good they are isn't a very good judge of talent imo.

gp *******








sorry about the *******. I needed more characters to make the post

broncohead
03-21-2009, 08:28 PM
lol.

Since we're reading into each other's posts...

Win-loss record means nothing, huh?

Jeff George rules! :woot:

Yep and Shaun Rogers must be one of the worst NTs because his team had a 5-11? record...

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 08:39 PM
Yep and Shaun Rogers must be one of the worst NTs because his team had a 5-11? record...

Quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses.

Sucks to be them.

TXBRONC
03-21-2009, 08:55 PM
10? It took 7. Considering we went from 20, to then 7, we might be able to find our next franchise in the next few months.

AND we might have a better team.

Just think, we might actually have a winning record next year.

And just think our record might actually be worse next year.

And we just might a worse team.

There is a higher probability that we wont find a franchise in the next few month. You want quibble about 7 or 10 years you're wasting your breath. It could be a lot longer the next time around assuming that Jay is traded away.

Watchthemiddle
03-21-2009, 09:21 PM
Yep and Shaun Rogers must be one of the worst NTs because his team had a 5-11? record...

You don't get it do you...:rolleyes:

Anyway,
So i guess all you need is a strong arm and to have a losing record as a starter to be considered a franchise QB.

Who cares about leadership, good decision maker, and being a non-cryer.

If all you need is to be a whinner and have a strong arm, it will be no time at all to find another "franchise" QB here in Denver.

:coffee:

broncohead
03-21-2009, 09:40 PM
You don't get it do you...:rolleyes:

Anyway,
So i guess all you need is a strong arm and to have a losing record as a starter to be considered a franchise QB.

Who cares about leadership, good decision maker, and being a non-cryer.

If all you need is to be a whinner and have a strong arm, it will be no time at all to find another "franchise" QB here in Denver.

:coffee:

Where did I say anything about a strong arm? leadership, decision making, and his maturity (are we aloud to use that word) will come with time. People are to quick to push players out. Good thing it's not up to the fans.

broncohead
03-21-2009, 09:40 PM
Quarterbacks are judged on wins and losses.

Sucks to be them.

That's what dumb asses judge QBs by...

Watchthemiddle
03-21-2009, 09:41 PM
Where did I say anything about a strong arm? leadership, decision making, and his maturity (are we aloud to use that word) will come with time. People are to quick to push players out. Good thing it's not up to the fans.

You say all that will come with time....so if thats the case...how about once ( if ever ) he gets it then he can be labeled a franchise QB.....that kind of comes in time too. Unless your name is Matt Ryan and you get it as a Rookie. Other than that, Jay needs a lot of work before he is labeled anything....IMO.

Watchthemiddle
03-21-2009, 09:42 PM
That's what dumb asses judge QBs by...

Nope, you don't get it.
:coffee:

silkamilkamonico
03-21-2009, 09:50 PM
And just think our record might actually be worse next year.

And we just might a worse team.

There is a higher probability that we wont find a franchise in the next few month. You want quibble about 7 or 10 years you're wasting your breath. It could be a lot longer the next time around assuming that Jay is traded away.

4-12 with the progressive attempt to actually improve as a franchise, or starting out in the driver seat and folding terribly at the end, whats the difference? At least with the 4-12, I don't have to get upset and my supposed "franchise QB" playing like garbage, and then "calling out the defense" in the biggest games of the season.

On a side note, if McDaniels can actually build the team that perennials do, which is a foreign concept in the Denver organization, who needs another franchise QB when you can get the Matt Cassel's of the world to come in and perform.

Not only are you saving some big time money for your other key parts of the team, but you wouldn't be overpaying for a "franchise QB" to play like garbage in the biggest games of the season.

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 09:50 PM
You say all that will come with time....so if thats the case...how about once ( if ever ) he gets it then he can be labeled a franchise QB.....that kind of comes in time too. Unless your name is Matt Ryan and you get it as a Rookie. Other than that, Jay needs a lot of work before he is labeled anything....IMO.

lol. Yeah, I'd like to have seen Matt Ryan in denver last year

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 09:52 PM
That's what dumb asses judge QBs by...

Really?

An astute observation on your part, really.

It's a good thing Cutler made the Pro Bowl. That sure offset the fact that he choked at the end of the season. Matter of fact he choked the entire season.

silkamilkamonico
03-21-2009, 09:54 PM
lol. Yeah, I'd like to have seen Matt Ryan in denver last year

I think he would probably look as mediocre as Jay Cutler behind an average oline in the NFL, as opposed to the best oline in the NFL.

I mean, with all that protection, the guy still threw almost as many interceptions as Jake Plummer did in his huge Pro Bowl season with Denver.

I'm not trying to hate on the guy, but these "Jay Cutler is God" comments I see around here are absurd.

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 09:55 PM
Where did I say anything about a strong arm? leadership, decision making, and his maturity (are we aloud to use that word) will come with time. People are to quick to push players out. Good thing it's not up to the fans.

It is a good thing. There's so much Cutler ass-kissing going on, I swore there was a porno filming...

P.S. "allowed."

Spelling rules.

WARHORSE
03-21-2009, 09:55 PM
Really?

An astute observation on your part, really.

It's a good thing Cutler made the Pro Bowl. That sure offset the fact that he choked at the end of the season. Matter of fact he choked the entire season.


If thats the case, you wouldnt know a choke if your clown was in both hands.

Pitiful.

Just pitiful.

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 09:56 PM
I think he would probably look as mediocre as Jay Cutler behind an average oline in the NFL, as opposed to the best oline in the NFL.

I mean, with all that protection, the guy still threw almost as many interceptions as Jake Plummer did in his huge Pro Bowl season with Denver.

I'm not trying to hate on the guy, but these "Jay Cutler is God" comments I see around here are absurd.

that was really my point. I think the performance and record would have been comparable.

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 09:57 PM
Really?

An astute observation on your part, really.

It's a good thing Cutler made the Pro Bowl. That sure offset the fact that he choked at the end of the season. Matter of fact he choked the entire season.

I think it's past somebody's bedtime.

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 09:58 PM
I think it's past somebody's bedtime.

So a personal attack because you have no real argument?

Weak sauce.

broncohead
03-21-2009, 10:00 PM
You say all that will come with time....so if thats the case...how about once ( if ever ) he gets it then he can be labeled a franchise QB.....that kind of comes in time too. Unless your name is Matt Ryan and you get it as a Rookie. Other than that, Jay needs a lot of work before he is labeled anything....IMO.

Ryan has a very good RB and a better defense... you must not get it.

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 10:00 PM
So a personal attack because you have no real argument?

Weak sauce.

no, you are talking nonsense and I am frankly quite surprised. You honestly think that Cutler lacks value? That's what you intimated in a later post.


oh yeah, you had said Cutler choked the whole season. I think that's a bit out there.

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 10:03 PM
no, you are talking nonsense and I am frankly quite surprised. You honestly think that Cutler lacks value? That's what you intimated in a later post.


oh yeah, you had said Cutler choked the whole season. I think that's a bit out there.

Yes, I know, it's nonsense that quarterbacks are judged on win-loss records...I know, I know. What utter lunacy.

:rolleyes:

Three games up with three games to go...yeah, I'd say he choked pretty good.

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 10:04 PM
Yes, I know, it's nonsense that quarterbacks are judged on win-loss records...I know, I know. What utter lunacy.

:rolleyes:

Three games up with three games to go...yeah, I'd say he choked pretty good.

yeah, yeah, it's all jay cutler. you probalby take that as kissing Jay's ass, but your assessment of this is ridiculous MO. good Lord

SmilinAssasSin27
03-21-2009, 10:05 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to call Cutty a choker cuz he has had some comebacks, but some folks conveniently fail to remember that before those 2 bullet passes to Eddie in week 2...he did fumble the game away in the red zone.

Crazy how 6 months later, we'd actually have been better off (draftwise) if the ref had made the right call.

silkamilkamonico
03-21-2009, 10:08 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to call Cutty a choker cuz he has had some comebacks, but some folks conveniently fail to remember that before those 2 bullet passes to Eddie in week 2...he did fumble the game away in the red zone.

I think he's generally good in the 2 minutes. He has something like 6 or 8 comebacks, so he can perform at the end of games.

However, I think his lack of a "big game atmosphere", and being in a season is on the line situation, he has really failed.

That's not really his fault, but I'm a little scared to think how he would perform should Denver ever make the playoffs again when he is QBing. With all this comparison to Manning's early career, we could be looking at a 3-4 playoff exits before he gets comfortable in a situation like that.

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 10:08 PM
but your assessment of this is ridiculous MO. good Lord

Explain.

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 10:11 PM
Explain.

You are just overreacting. Can you not say that the defense was horrid and there were issues with a running game and playcalling? If anyone is on a bandwagon of sorts, it seems to be you. jmo

MOtorboat
03-21-2009, 10:13 PM
You are just overreacting. Can you not say that the defense was horrid and there were issues with a running game and playcalling? If anyone is on a bandwagon of sorts, it seems to be you. jmo

You're right, nut, the coaching sucked. Good thing Bowlen fired all of those coaches.

Watchthemiddle
03-21-2009, 10:17 PM
You are just overreacting. Can you not say that the defense was horrid and there were issues with a running game and playcalling? If anyone is on a bandwagon of sorts, it seems to be you. jmo

I would agree with all of that, but Jay sure didn't help matters once he got the team into the red zone with opportunities to keep the D off the field and score points.

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 10:17 PM
You're right, nut, the coaching sucked. Good thing Bowlen fired all of those coaches.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. I don't feel that we are having a mature conversation and I sense some sarcasm. Let me ask you this. Were do you stand with the firing of shannahan and the hiring of Josh McDaniels? Maybe we can work from there.

I for one was somewhat excited about a change in the guard but am concerned with this young and inexperienced replacement and with what he has done so far with his new position. Namely messing with what I perceived to be a promising young qb in Jay cutler.

Watchthemiddle
03-21-2009, 10:19 PM
Ryan has a very good RB and a better defense... you must not get it.

And a better head on his shoulders.
:coffee:

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 10:21 PM
I would agree with all of that, but Jay sure didn't help matters once he got the team into the red zone with opportunities to keep the D off the field and score points.

my memory of the season is pretty poor in all honesty. I don't remember specific games like a lot of you do. I watched almost all of them. I think I missed the Buffalo game. but the majority that I saw, it was the same old. cutler locked in on Marshall and loose Defense. I had issue with Cutler on some plays, but I think it's foolish to want him out of town.

broncohead
03-21-2009, 10:29 PM
And a better head on his shoulders.
:coffee:

He does and I have pointed out Jay is very immature

BroncoNut
03-21-2009, 10:29 PM
And a better head on his shoulders.
:coffee:


I have a better head on my shoulders in different scenarios.

idk, maybe Jay is a head case. It's too early to tell imo

BigDaddyBronco
03-23-2009, 09:39 AM
From Peter King's weekly article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/22/owners/index.html


"Say you're the Broncos, and Tampa Bay offers you two ones [two first-round picks] plus [second-year quarterback] Josh Johnson for Cutler,'' one NFC coach told me. "Denver makes the deal and picks a quarterback with one of the ones. You've traded the best young quarterback in football for two guys who might have a chance, but might be washouts too. Denver's problem is they could never get fair value for him.''

Yet another source who says Cutler is worth 2 1st round picks and a player.

Hey BOU? (In my best Shaq impersonation) What does nthngd2say's *** taste like?

claymore
03-23-2009, 09:55 AM
I would agree with all of that, but Jay sure didn't help matters once he got the team into the red zone with opportunities to keep the D off the field and score points.

If the opposing defense knows you cant run the ball, it makes it pretty hard on the QB to punch it in. Jay did well with what he had, in fact he excelled.

lex
04-01-2009, 11:01 PM
From Peter King's weekly article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/22/owners/index.html



Yet another source who says Cutler is worth 2 1st round picks and a player.

Hey BOU? (In my best Shaq impersonation) What does nthngd2say's *** taste like?

Actually, if youre referring to what was cited from Pat Kirwan, I believe 2 firsts and a good player was the starting point.

weazel
04-01-2009, 11:02 PM
according to me, Cutler is worth that salty log someone posted in another thread.

http://dontclickthis.whatingods.name/enormous-turd.jpg

Foochacho
04-01-2009, 11:04 PM
welcome back lex you going to try to last a week before getting banned again?

weazel
04-01-2009, 11:31 PM
welcome back lex you going to try to last a week before getting banned again?

did you get suspended lex?

lex
04-01-2009, 11:38 PM
welcome back lex you going to try to last a week before getting banned again?


It depends on the degree of nonsense Im confronted with. Im not acquiescing on nonsense so I may not make it a week.

DenBronx
04-01-2009, 11:53 PM
Actually, if youre referring to what was cited from Pat Kirwan, I believe 2 firsts and a good player was the starting point.

i still think that could happen. we could use the two first...hopefully this year and not 2010.

lex
04-02-2009, 12:19 AM
i still think that could happen. we could use the two first...hopefully this year and not 2010.

If its Detroit, which youre kind of impying (unless you bring in a 3rd team), then Id like the 20th, 33rd, and the 65th. Detroit would still have a first and a third. But really, I would expect to get more than that, espeically with the Redskins and Jets in the bidding.

This is what I would do with that scenario:

12. Beanie Wells
20. Clay Matthews Jr.
33. Jarron Gilbert
48. Ron Brace
65. Eric Wood
79. Pat White
110. Scott McKillop
132. Bruce Johnson
141. Mike Reilly
172. Quinn Johnson
208. Bear Pascoe
218. Dominique Edison

DenBronx
04-02-2009, 02:10 AM
If its Detroit, which youre kind of impying (unless you bring in a 3rd team), then Id like the 20th, 33rd, and the 65th. Detroit would still have a first and a third. But really, I would expect to get more than that, espeically with the Redskins and Jets in the bidding.

This is what I would do with that scenario:

12. Beanie Wells
20. Clay Matthews Jr.
33. Jarron Gilbert
48. Ron Brace
65. Eric Wood
79. Pat White
110. Scott McKillop
132. Bruce Johnson
141. Mike Reilly
172. Quinn Johnson
208. Bear Pascoe
218. Dominique Edison


would you take detriots #1, #20 and #33? no players involved but cutler and picks.

lex
04-02-2009, 02:20 AM
would you take detriots #1, #20 and #33? no players involved but cutler and picks.

This draft Id prefer to not have the #1 overall.

omac
04-02-2009, 04:43 AM
If its Detroit, which youre kind of impying (unless you bring in a 3rd team), then Id like the 20th, 33rd, and the 65th. Detroit would still have a first and a third. But really, I would expect to get more than that, espeically with the Redskins and Jets in the bidding.

This is what I would do with that scenario:

12. Beanie Wells
20. Clay Matthews Jr.
33. Jarron Gilbert
48. Ron Brace
65. Eric Wood
79. Pat White
110. Scott McKillop
132. Bruce Johnson
141. Mike Reilly
172. Quinn Johnson
208. Bear Pascoe
218. Dominique Edison

You'd rather take an RB at 12, instead of Raji, then take Brace later on?

Sounds good, but Beanie Wells might be underutilized in a McDaniels passing offense. Then again, that would make it easier for us when we start Simms. :D

MOtorboat
04-02-2009, 07:45 AM
You'd rather take an RB at 12, instead of Raji, then take Brace later on?

Sounds good, but Beanie Wells might be underutilized in a McDaniels passing offense. Then again, that would make it easier for us when we start Simms. :D

Raji won't be available at 12.

BigDaddyBronco
04-02-2009, 08:54 AM
If its Detroit, which youre kind of impying (unless you bring in a 3rd team), then Id like the 20th, 33rd, and the 65th. Detroit would still have a first and a third. But really, I would expect to get more than that, espeically with the Redskins and Jets in the bidding.

This is what I would do with that scenario:

12. Beanie Wells
20. Clay Matthews Jr.
33. Jarron Gilbert
48. Ron Brace
65. Eric Wood
79. Pat White
110. Scott McKillop
132. Bruce Johnson
141. Mike Reilly
172. Quinn Johnson
208. Bear Pascoe
218. Dominique Edison


I like that trade, but I would package the #12 (~ 1200 pts) plus the #48 (~ 400 pts) to move up to somewhere between the #6 (1600 pts) and the #9 (1300 pts) or we could use the #12 and #33 to get up to the #5. With this pick I would take Raji, with the #20 pick I would pray that Tyson Jackson was there. If not I would get an OLB and at #33 I would take the best player available at RB, CB, or S.

lex
04-02-2009, 10:00 AM
You'd rather take an RB at 12, instead of Raji, then take Brace later on?

Sounds good, but Beanie Wells might be underutilized in a McDaniels passing offense. Then again, that would make it easier for us when we start Simms. :D

Exacrtly. This mock is more what I think they should do than it is a prediction. I dont even think theyve brought Matthews in and I know theyre bringing Beanie Wells in twice. Youre right, though. We should be getting back to the running game anyway but we especially need that now. And as far as Raji is concerned. I like him but I wonder if he's wasted as a two gapper. He played like a one gapper at the senior bowl. Plus, if he doest produce in the first year, it might make sense to take someone like Brace, Sammie Hill, or Chris Baker. Plus, Ive kind of written off him being available at 12. Also, if Bobby Turner is working out Wells and they are bringing him back for a second visit because Turner likes Wells that much, Im not averse to taking Wells even if Raji is available.

lex
04-02-2009, 10:03 AM
I like that trade, but I would package the #12 (~ 1200 pts) plus the #48 (~ 400 pts) to move up to somewhere between the #6 (1600 pts) and the #9 (1300 pts) or we could use the #12 and #33 to get up to the #5. With this pick I would take Raji, with the #20 pick I would pray that Tyson Jackson was there. If not I would get an OLB and at #33 I would take the best player available at RB, CB, or S.

It would be better to take Jarron Gilbert later instead of Tyson Jackson. The key positions in the 3-4 are allegedly the NT and the rush LB. Id rather not take Tyson Jackson.

weazel
04-02-2009, 01:11 PM
:coffee:

BoltsOwnU
04-02-2009, 05:20 PM
I'm here to take my crow. I can't believe Chicago was willing to cough up as much as they did, though Orton is hardly a big-time player, the two firsts are remarkable.

nthngd2say
04-02-2009, 05:50 PM
I'm here to take my crow. I can't believe Chicago was willing to cough up as much as they did, though Orton is hardly a big-time player, the two firsts are remarkable.

I agree on Orton. My buddy told me they are speculating on the NFL Network that the Broncos aren't done dealing and the Orton will move on possibly with other players [maybe Scheffler?]? Take that for whatever its worth...

frauschieze
04-02-2009, 05:50 PM
I'm here to take my crow. I can't believe Chicago was willing to cough up as much as they did, though Orton is hardly a big-time player, the two firsts are remarkable.

And this is why you are always welcome here. :salute:

BigDaddyBronco
04-02-2009, 05:52 PM
I'm here to take my crow. I can't believe Chicago was willing to cough up as much as they did, though Orton is hardly a big-time player, the two firsts are remarkable.
Dude when 20 sports writers are saying the guy is worth 2 1sts and a player, you probably shouldn't be flapping your gums so much. :D