PDA

View Full Version : Disgruntled QB Cutler, Broncos are now in a holding pattern



Denver Native (Carol)
03-17-2009, 06:44 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f4f6d5&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Josh McDaniels couldn't bring his protege with him from New England to Denver. He sure brought the Patriots' management philosophies to the Broncos, though.

Aside from the intricate Patriots-style offense he's installing in place of the West Coast system that has been in Denver since the 1990s, the Broncos' new coach is instilling a tenet prized by his mentor, Bill Belichick, who, for the sake of team unity, never panders to superstars.

It helps explain why McDaniels didn't just hang up the phone when teams called about a three-way trade that would have sent his best player packing and brought Matt Cassel over from New England before he landed in Kansas City instead. It also shows why McDaniels hasn't acquiesced in the resulting feud with recalcitrant quarterback Jay Cutler, who now wants a trade.

One player McDaniels did get to bring with him to Denver is wide receiver Jabar Gaffney, who said the coach is just like Belichick in so many ways -- both on the football field and in the front office.

"Just how he handles business, the way he goes about treating everybody the same. Not showing favoritism to any one player who is supposed to be I guess a 'star,'" Gaffney said. "They don't care. They want a team. A team to go out there and win. Because the individuals won't win."

Gaffney saw those philosophies firsthand when McDaniels was New England's offensive coordinator the last three years.

Even Tom Brady, a three-time Super Bowl winner, caught plenty of guff from McDaniels, according to Gaffney.

"Yeah, I think Tom got (chewed out) just about as much as everybody else did," Gaffney said. "So, that's great. Once you see your quarterback get talked to, then you know Coach is showing no favoritism. Everybody has to show up and play."

Which is what the Broncos want Cutler, the face of their franchise, to do.

McDaniels is still waiting for Cutler to call him so they can try to work things out one last time. Cutler is in Nashville, Tenn., waiting for a phone call telling him the Broncos have heeded his trade request, which he made Sunday through his agent, Bus Cook.

Just two weeks ago, it was the other way around in this soap opera: Cutler throwing a fit because McDaniels tried to trade him.

With the standoff continuing Tuesday, recently signed quarterback Chris Simms tossed around some footballs at the team's training facility when the Broncos went outside for their first running drills of the offseason.

"Yeah, we've been throwing the ball around a little bit," Gaffney said.

Simms, who has thrown just two passes since undergoing emergency surgery to remove his spleen after a game in 2006, signed a two-year, $6 million free-agent deal ostensibly to serve as Cutler's backup. The only other quarterback on Denver's roster is Darrell Hackney, whose next NFL pass will be his first.

In New England, Brady is notorious for his work ethic. But Gaffney said it wasn't just that Brady led by example.

"Everybody is held accountable," Gaffney said. "Tom did his thing, but I mean, whether he would have been there or not, everybody was going to go out there and work hard. Same thing that Josh kind of said in our team meeting: 'Everybody that's here, let's go to work. We're a team.'"

"So, we'll love to have him here," Gaffney said of Cutler. "I was looking forward to meeting him. That will happen all in its time."

Unless Cutler forces his way out of Denver.

Because the offseason program is voluntary, Cutler isn't being fined for his absence, although he's risking a $100,000 bonus. For a man halfway through a $48 million contract and who projects to make many millions more than that in his next contract, $100,000 is small potatoes. Money won't get him back to Denver.

Cutler has said he'll show up for mandatory workouts next month if he's still a member of the Broncos. The team is scheduled to hold its first minicamp April

If the Broncos decide to deal Cutler in exchange for another established quarterback, it would make sense to do a trade before that first minicamp so they can start installing their new offense.

Tampa Bay and Detroit were interested in acquiring Cutler before, so it stands to reason that the Buccaneers and Lions would be at the top of the list of teams trying to pry him away now. Other teams that might make good trade partners include the Cleveland Browns, Chicago Bears, Dallas Cowboys, Minnesota Vikings and Tennessee Titans.

If the relationship with Cutler is deemed irreparable, McDaniels might seek a high draft pick to select a passer from the college ranks, which might mean Simms being their man in the interim.

If Cutler stays, McDaniels will want bygones to be bygones because the last thing he needs is a relationship like former Broncos coach Dan Reeves had with Hall of Famer John Elway -- a nasty dispute that also grew out of trade talks behind the player's back and eventually led to Reeves' firing.

The saga doesn't seem to be bothering Cutler's teammates.

"As far as I know, Jay is still on the team, so he's still the face of the team, I guess," defensive end Elvis Dumervil said. "And until another message comes across the screen, that's all I know."

The Broncos declined interview requests again for McDaniels, general manager Brian Xanders and team owner Pat Bowlen on Tuesday. Cook didn't return a call from The Associated Press.

bcbronc
03-17-2009, 07:07 PM
"Just how he handles business, the way he goes about treating everybody the same. Not showing favoritism to any one player who is supposed to be I guess a 'star,'" Gaffney said. "They don't care. They want a team. A team to go out there and win. Because the individuals won't win."

Gaffney saw those philosophies firsthand when McDaniels was New England's offensive coordinator the last three years.

Even Tom Brady, a three-time Super Bowl winner, caught plenty of guff from McDaniels, according to Gaffney.

"Yeah, I think Tom got (chewed out) just about as much as everybody else did," Gaffney said. "So, that's great. Once you see your quarterback get talked to, then you know Coach is showing no favoritism. Everybody has to show up and play."


I sure hope McDaniels left all that Patriot crap behind him when he got to Dove Valley. if Josh doesn't immediately get on his knees and beg Cutler's forgiveness, Bowlen better McFire his McAss out the McDoor.

LoyalSoldier
03-17-2009, 07:13 PM
The rule of thumb is don't be a hard ass till you have earned the right to be.

bcbronc
03-17-2009, 07:15 PM
The rule of thumb is don't be a hard ass till you have earned the right to be.

*cough* Jay *cough*

NameUsedBefore
03-17-2009, 07:26 PM
The rule of thumb is don't be a hard ass till you have earned the right to be.

Or at the very least be prudent about it. We have absolutely nothing to gain from these shenanigans.

elsid13
03-17-2009, 07:36 PM
The rule of thumb is don't be a hard ass till you have earned the right to be.

It alright to come in as tough SOB, but you need to seen as fair and honest about it. If hold people to standard that everyone understands and judge folks ontheir performance only then it not a problem. It when you come in act like SOB and play Machiavellian games is when folks get pissed off

Denver Native (Carol)
03-17-2009, 07:43 PM
It alright to come in as tough SOB, but you need to seen as fair and honest about it. If hold people to standard that everyone understands and judge folks ontheir performance only then it not a problem. It when you come in act like SOB and play Machiavellian games is when folks get pissed off

What I got from what Gaffney said, is that what McD has done so far here, is his pattern for what he did in NE - i.e. how he treats people :tsk:

nj10
03-17-2009, 07:52 PM
The rule of thumb is don't be a hard ass till you have earned the right to be.

*cough* McDouche *cough*

BeefStew25
03-17-2009, 07:59 PM
You can be a hardass if you are honest.

But if you lie and backstab, it doesnt work.

Buff
03-17-2009, 08:06 PM
You can be a hardass if you are honest.

But if you lie and backstab, it doesnt work.

I'm starting to think it's Bus Cook Inc. that's doing the lying.

scott.475
03-17-2009, 08:13 PM
What I find so unbelievable about the comparisons to New England, in that everyone is expendable, is that if Tom Brady suddenly decided he wanted to play for another team, they would go WAY out of their way to keep him...Brady MADE their coach, MADE the modern Patriots, and MADE McD. I know we can never know, but I think it would be pretty fair to say the Pats would not be nearly as successful without Brady, he is that good. Just because the coach yells at him for screwing up does not mean Brady is just as expendable as anyone else on the team, they would fight to keep him.

Remember, Bill tried his hand at coaching the Browns before the Pats and had little success, he didn't try running Bledsoe out of town as soon as he arrived. Several of his underlings have tried their hand on their own, I am sure trying to use the same system, with little success. Their ARE times when specific players need to be placated.

I'll tell you something else, if Jay does leave, McD will need to win big THIS YEAR, he has really put himself between a rock and a hard place here. He will not be forgiven very easily without a fairly deep playoff run after letting Jay get away.

Den21vsBal19
03-17-2009, 08:19 PM
I'm starting to think it's Bus Cook Inc. that's doing the lying.

Something along the lines of this?



Mode of transportation to take Cutler out of Denver? Bus (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f4d67d&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

By Vic Carucci | NFL.com
Senior Columnist

There is no way for Jay Cutler to reconcile his differences with the Denver Broncos.

The damage to his relationship with the team is beyond repair. He knows it. Josh McDaniels, his main protagonist, knows it. Broncos owner Pat Bowlen and other members of the team's hierarchy know it, too.

Cutler wants out. Although the Broncos publicly maintain they're not yet at the point of granting his wish, it seems as if the time will eventually come (perhaps within the next month) when they ship the Pro Bowl quarterback to another team.

It is the only solution to a drama that has dominated NFL offseason discussion in a way that rivals last year's soap opera starring Brett Favre.

And it is hardly a coincidence that the situations have a common thread: Bus Cook, who was Favre's agent, also represents Cutler. When Favre reached a point where he no longer could work with Packers general manager Ted Thompson, Cook did his part to pry his unhappy client out of Green Bay and worked out a trade that resulted in the regrettable season that Favre spent with the New York Jets in 2008.

Cook is the same agent who was involved with the acrimonious relationship between yet another quarterback, Steve McNair, and the Tennessee Titans -- so acrimonious that the Titans banned McNair from working out at their facility during the offseason and resulted in his finishing his career with the Baltimore Ravens. And Cook is the same agent who was involved with the battle that wide receiver Randy Moss had with the Oakland Raiders before he wound up with the New England Patriots.

I am having serious doubts that this entire Cutler mess stems from his outrage over the fact McDaniels engaged in discussions with his former employer, the Patriots, for a possible three-way trade that would have sent Matt Cassel to Denver and Cutler elsewhere.

I'm convinced it began after Bowlen fired coach Mike Shanahan and also parted ways with offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates. After that, Cutler realized he no longer had anyone who believed in him as the Broncos' starter, who appreciated his gunslinger-style skills and would design a playbook and call plays that would take full advantage of them

He certainly didn't see McDaniels as that person. Nor should he have. As offensive coordinator of the Patriots, McDaniels ran a scheme that had no room for the type of high-risk passing that is the hallmark of Cutler's game. Cutler and his good friend, Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler (another Cook client), took a close look at the type of offense the Patriots ran under McDaniels.

It didn't take long for them to reach the same conclusion: "This isn't what we do."

McDaniels didn't see Cutler as a good fit, either, which was why he did the logical thing and entertained an overture from the Patriots that would have reunited him with the backup quarterback he helped turn into a star after Tom Brady's season-ending knee injury last year.

McDaniels was hired, in large part, for his offensive vision. He was hired for the ideas that played a role in allowing Brady to have the off-the-charts season he had in 2007 and Cassel to cash in a spectacular season for a minimum payoff of $14.65 million and a starting job with the Kansas City Chiefs.

McDaniels knows exactly the type of quarterback he needs at the controls of his system -- someone who will stay within himself, who will be methodical and precise, who will allow big plays to unfold within the structure of the offense rather than gambling that he can squeeze the ball between defenders or simply throw it to a spot too far down the field for anyone to get to … except his receiver.

The quarterback McDaniels needs is not Cutler and will never be Cutler. And Cutler is every bit as aware of this square-peg-in-a-round-hole dynamic as McDaniels.

Cutler is not looking to find some sort of common ground so that he and McDaniels can work together, because it doesn't exist. He and Cook will do everything they can to apply as much pressure as possible on the 32-year-old, first-year coach until they get what they want -- a one-way ticket out of Denver.

Despite what he might say publicly, McDaniels is going to comply -- but on his terms. Before he boots a quarterback with three years left on his contract out the door, he has to make sure he can bring in one who is right for his program. The Cleveland Browns just might be able to accommodate him; their new coach, Eric Mangini, doesn't seem very keen on keeping Brady Quinn around.

Meanwhile, McDaniels is going to at least try to create the perception that he has everything under control -- that no one, including Cutler or Cook, is going to stand in the way of getting his program off the ground with the offseason workouts that began Monday (without Cutler).

This will only last so long, of course. Cutler seems fully prepared to make the situation as ugly as possible, and we know -- from the experiences with Favre, McNair and Moss -- that is likely to happen. Ultimately, the Broncos will have to pull the trigger on a trade.

It is the only solution.

scott.475
03-17-2009, 08:22 PM
Gosh, I really, really dislike McD.

The only QB I would be excited about getting, that is feasible, is Quinn.

getlynched47
03-17-2009, 08:22 PM
McDaniels is up for the award in 2009 for the most epic failure of the year.

Congrats dip shit :coffee:

scott.475
03-17-2009, 08:40 PM
McDaniels is up for the award in 2009 for the most epic failure of the year.

Congrats dip shit :coffee:

Yep, like I said above, if he chases Jay away, he darn well better win BIG THIS year. He has put himself in a terrible situation.

BeefStew25
03-17-2009, 08:42 PM
There are a number of issues to consider in this Jay Cutler "I want to be traded" drama. First, Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels isn't Bill Belichick. He's only 32 and he's new to being the boss. He's also not used to being around a pouty, immature quarterback.

Then, there is Cutler's agent, Bus Cook. Fans became familiar with Cook last summer because he is Brett Favre's agent. And we all know how that once great Favre-Green Bay marriage turned out. It went up in flames and now Favre is retired and looking for TV work.

Cook has forever claimed that he couldn't reason with Favre and protect him from himself. That's why Favre landed with the Jets and not with Jon Gruden and the Bucs. I always thought a wise, old agent like Cook would have pulled those strings a little better than he did.

But give Cook credit. He's been pulling the strings nicely for Cutler. Everyone should know that Cutler has wanted out of Denver ever since Mike Shanahan was fired and quarterback coach Jeremy Bates left for USC shortly afterward.

Before McDaniels and the Broncos pursued a failed trade for Matt Cassel, Cook had already been begging to get his client out. Denver told him no from the beginning. But somehow Cook has been able — how hilarious is this? — to paint Cutler as some victim in the cruel world of NFL trade talk. At the moment, the Broncos seem to be losing the PR war.

Cutler is from Santa Claus, Indiana. So, he wouldn't mind playing in the Midwest, but probably not Detroit. He wouldn't mind Tampa, either, considering the Bucs were very serious about possibly acquiring him in the botched three-way trade with New England.

A wise man once told me it's not about more money, but dollars always seem to be an issue. Cassel, who has played one NFL season since high school, is on the financial ledger for $14.6 million this season. Cutler, a first-round bonus baby, has a $2.3 million salary for 2009. The only way Cook is going to receive a better commission (and a higher salary for his 25-year-old quarterback) is by forcing Denver to trade Cutler, who is entering the fourth year of a six-year contract.

I don't know what to make of Cutler. He turned me off last season when he said his arm was better than John Elway's. He talks about McDaniels not being smart enough to simply pull him aside and talk to him one-on-one and sing sweet accolades into his ear.

One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady. Oh, and his won-lost record is 17-20.

It is going to be hard for McDaniels to turn this situation around. But there is no question that he needs to be able to talk with Cutler alone. Cutler needs to make his own decisions without Cook in the room. In Green Bay, the Packers never felt that Cook helped matters when dealing with Favre. The same situation has mushroomed in Denver, where McDaniels feels he might get somewhere with Cutler if he's minus Cook. The agent is complicating matters.

By now, knowing what he knows about Cutler, the young head coach is torn about what course to pursue. But it is never good to be trading a star player while in a weakened position. Teams never seem to receive the proper compensation — like two first-round picks — when a petulant player is making demands and failing to show for work. Yes, this week's minicamp is optional, but you would think that a young quarterback would want to find out how McDaniels is as a coach before turning his back on him.

The league's owner meetings begin Sunday in Dana Point, Ca. and Denver's Pat Bowlen and McDaniels will be able to talk directly to any potential bidders for Cutler. Tampa Bay, Detroit and Minnesota make the most sense because all three teams need a starting quarterback. Yes, the Vikings just signed Sage Rosenfels to compete with Tarvaris Jackson, but no one really views him as a long-term solution.

The dilemma for Denver is what quarterback do they pursue or accept as compensation? The cupboard is pretty bare, and that's why Cleveland is mentioned (Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson) and Arizona (Matt Leinart). The Jets may join the pursuit, too. The Bears, who were Cutler's favorite team while growing up in Indiana, make a lot of sense, but they seem to be pinching pennies again. Also, I don't see Kyle Orton as Denver's next quarterback. Right now, forgotten Chris Simms is running with the first team in Denver.

It would be ridiculous for Denver to trade Cutler to Detroit for the first overall pick, and thus be forced to pay either Georgia's Matt Stafford or USC's Mark Sanchez about $33 million in guaranteed money if they deem either one of those prospects as a decent replacement. Both Tampa and Detroit have mid-first round picks, but it's unlikely either of those quarterbacks would be available at No. 19 or No. 20, respectively.

The bottom line is that the Broncos would be better off keeping Cutler and finding a way to make it work. But we all know that isn't going to happen.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9345936/Cutler%27s-agent-Cooks-up-another-drama

rationalfan
03-17-2009, 08:49 PM
has anyone on this board ever managed people? you never, ever let the inmates run the asylum.

this isn't mcdaniels' fault. this is the fault of a quarterback who isn't willing to be anything less than a prima donna.

honz
03-17-2009, 08:57 PM
If McDaniels truly still wanted to trade Cutler, Jay wouldn't have to ask for a trade. I'd say he is going out of his way to try and work things out. It's not his fault that Cutler doesn't think he should be treated like every other player. Both of them just need to say sorry and move forward. But like rationalfan said, McDaniels can't let Cutler start undermining his authority. Backing down and coddling Cutler would lead to more problems.

elsid13
03-17-2009, 08:59 PM
"One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady. Oh, and his won-lost record is 17-20."

See I don't buy this statement, because all the news media talked about how he is a gym rat and studies film all the time. I know it popular to paint Shanahan as Herm Edwards these days, but he wouldn't let that shit go no matter who it was. If Cutler wasn't doing what he need to learn the playbook and study the film his ass would have been on the bench.

getlynched47
03-17-2009, 09:02 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f49d80&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true


McDaniels was quoted in the Denver Post on Monday as saying: "Obviously, the trade went through with another team. We moved on. I'm not sure if that's where all the discontent stems from or not. I'm sure most of it does."

Huh?

Well, if he is not sure if that is where it all stems from, what else could it be? That maybe McDaniels watched Cutler act like a buffoon in the way he publicly handled his differences with Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers? Or the way Cutler stumbled his way into a silly discussion over whether his arm was stronger than John Elway's? Or the fact that Cutler is a winging quarterback who in the end will always force the ball, force things and not play the measured, coach-first style that McDaniels gleaned upon in New England?

What McDaniels needed to do was call Cutler in as soon as Cassel became a topic and say this: Look, Jay, you know how you loved your relationship with Jeremy Bates as your offensive coordinator when he was here? And let's say Jeremy got an NFL head-coaching job and Cassel was his quarterback. You think Jeremy would pick Cassel or you if he had a chance? Of course, he would pick you. I am going to take a look at getting Cassel. If that doesn't work, so be it, we will move forward."

what a punk ass McDaniels is...

I have a passionate hate for him now. If I'm ever at a Bronco game...i will always be sure to hope that he gets hit like Charlie Weis at Notre Dame...

Northman
03-17-2009, 09:07 PM
Yep, like I said above, if he chases Jay away, he darn well better win BIG THIS year. He has put himself in a terrible situation.


Absolutely. But even if Jay stays there is no guarantee that we will win. But if McD wants to do it on his terms and clean house i expect immediate results this year. On the flipside, if McD wants to use Jay as the QB but Jay refuses to play or continue to want to be traded than that falls on Jay. As of lately, Jay is the one running away, not being chased away.

tomjonesrocks
03-17-2009, 09:09 PM
I agree about the "dipshit" comments regarding McDaniels, but he doesn't *have* to do anything. He probably will continue his dipshittery and send Cutler away for half his value and set the organization back years if not decades, but he doesn't have to.

An unhappy Cutler can be kept on the relative cheap right now and a bad trade that gets the Broncos scraps in return (while Cutler flourishes elsewhere) would be agonizing and stupid.

Cutler has a right to be unhappy but the team can't get value in return. He'll play here once it starts costing him money not to. I think that's the "only" solution personally. McDaniels will probably only be here one season at this rate anyway.

honz
03-17-2009, 09:16 PM
I agree about the "dipshit" comments regarding McDaniels, but he doesn't *have* to do anything. He probably will continue his dipshittery and send Cutler away for half his value and set the organization back years if not decades, but he doesn't have to.

An unhappy Cutler can be kept on the relative cheap right now and a bad trade that gets the Broncos scraps in return (while Cutler flourishes elsewhere) would be agonizing and stupid.

Cutler has a right to be unhappy but the team can't get value in return. He'll play here once it starts costing him money not to. I think that's the "only" solution personally. McDaniels will probably only be here one season at this rate anyway.
Bowlen is on record saying that he backs McDaniels and is disappointed in Jay. I highly doubt this gets him fired as long as Bowlen isn't a lying, backstabbing, McDumbass. :coffee:

Denver Native (Carol)
03-17-2009, 09:23 PM
has anyone on this board ever managed people? you never, ever let the inmates run the asylum.

this isn't mcdaniels' fault. this is the fault of a quarterback who isn't willing to be anything less than a prima donna.

But, doesn't new management at least give the employees they inherited a chance to prove themselves, based on performance under them, before making a decision to keep them or let them go?

Totally different situation here - you say that new management never, ever lets the inmates run the asylum. Jay was here two weeks before McD blew everything - Jay was here on his own time, learning the new playbook, etc. Should that not prove anything to McD - should Jay at least be given the chance on the field to earn, or lose the QB position?

LoyalSoldier
03-17-2009, 09:32 PM
has anyone on this board ever managed people? you never, ever let the inmates run the asylum.

this isn't mcdaniels' fault. this is the fault of a quarterback who isn't willing to be anything less than a prima donna.

At the same time you don't lie to someone's face when that lie could very well come back to bite you. Sure you don't let players run the show, but you also don't go out of your way to piss them off needlessly.

Northman
03-17-2009, 09:38 PM
But, doesn't new management at least give the employees they inherited a chance to prove themselves, based on performance under them, before making a decision to keep them or let them go?

Totally different situation here - you say that new management never, ever lets the inmates run the asylum. Jay was here two weeks before McD blew everything - Jay was here on his own time, learning the new playbook, etc. Should that not prove anything to McD - should Jay at least be given the chance on the field to earn, or lose the QB position?

Likewise, employees should at least give new management a chance to prove what they can do before flying off the handle in public. Jay came right out of the gate and stated that he thought it was a wrong move to fire Shanahan. What does that say to the new boss coming in? Not only that but he did it all publically which looks bad for ANY Coach coming in here. Throw on top of that, Jay got equally pissed when Bates was let go even though im sure McD already had his own guys in mind when taking the job to begin with. Already, Jay was getting it in his head that McD wasnt going to work out which causes friction from the start. A lot of people want to get hung up on that two week period in which Jay tried looking that playbook. For all we know Jay might of said to himself "screw that" and left a further bad impression on McD. Im not saying it was the right move to try and trade him but i can certainly understand his concern when the "supposed" leader of the team is already badmouthing moves and and trying to dictate who stays and goes on the coaching staff.

honz
03-17-2009, 09:45 PM
Likewise, employees should at least give new management a chance to prove what they can do before flying off the handle in public. Jay came right out of the gate and stated that he thought it was a wrong move to fire Shanahan. What does that say to the new boss coming in? Not only that but he did it all publically which looks bad for ANY Coach coming in here. Throw on top of that, Jay got equally pissed when Bates was let go even though im sure McD already had his own guys in mind when taking the job to begin with. Already, Jay was getting it in his head that McD wasnt going to work out which causes friction from the start. A lot of people want to get hung up on that two week period in which Jay tried looking that playbook. For all we know Jay might of said to himself "screw that" and left a further bad impression on McD. Im not saying it was the right move to try and trade him but i can certainly understand his concern when the "supposed" leader of the team is already badmouthing moves and and trying to dictate who stays and goes on the coaching staff.

I don't think that is why we may have originally tried to trade for Cassell, but you do make some valid points about Cutler maybe not being willing to try and trust or work with the new coaches from the start.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-17-2009, 09:47 PM
I don't think that is why we may have originally tried to trade for Cassell, but you do make some valid points about Cutler maybe not being willing to try and trust or work with the new coaches from the start.

I think Jay was showing that by coming here and working with McD for 2 weeks, studying the playbook, and instead of McD recognizing that, he went after his boy.

Northman
03-17-2009, 09:51 PM
I don't think that is why we may have originally tried to trade for Cassell, but you do make some valid points about Cutler maybe not being willing to try and trust or work with the new coaches from the start.

But it makes sense. He was close to Bates and enjoyed his system and rightfully so. However, whenever changes are made you have to adapt to them or at least give them a shot. But once Shanahan was let go Jay became almost ADAMANT about Bates staying. Personally, i would of kept Bates just so that Jay had some familiarity in place. But maybe McD wanted to avoid the Shanahan/Elway escapade that happened while Shanny was a cordinator under Reeves. Whatever the reason i think Jay became way to vocal after everything went down. Its fine to be upset when you lose coaches you like but you have to also keep an open mind thats the nature of the business in the NFL. And your not always going to like the decisions being made but you should at least give the new guy a chance to work with you before going in with a negative vibe. Likewise, McD should of given Jay a chance to prove himself in his system before toying with the idea of trading him.

omac
03-17-2009, 09:55 PM
One other possible reason why Bellichick was able to rule with an iron hand in NE so easily was that the team culture was already used to it. Bellichick spent most of his career under the very successful Bill Parcels, who he probably got his management style from. Parcels brought the Pats to the superbowl, so when Bellichick ditched NY for NE, the Pats were already used to that management style, since the last coach who brought that to them, Parcels, was pretty successful.

Shanahan's a player's coach, and that's all Denver's known for more than a decade, and with some good success (2 superbowls, playoff appearances, consistent records). McDaniels hasn't proven anything as a head coach, but he expects the same cache as Bellichick. He doesn't grasp that he has to earn it.

When Bellichick tried to do it his way in Cleveland without Parcels being a pre-cursor there, he was terrible. It was good fortune for him that the Pats had already tasted success with his management style, through Parcels. In some ways, Parcels paved the way for Bellichick. McDaniels isn't getting the same luxury.

One thing that's certain; he has unshakeable confidence in himself and his system. That could turn out to be a very good thing, or a very bad thing. We'll soon see. We'll see if he turns into a Petrino, Mangini, Crennel, Weis, or Bellichick.

Northman
03-17-2009, 10:03 PM
One other possible reason why Bellichick was able to rule with an iron hand in NE so easily was that the team culture was already used to it. Bellichick spent most of his career under the very successful Bill Parcels, who he probably got his management style from. Parcels brought the Pats to the superbowl, so when Bellichick ditched NY for NE, the Pats were already used to that management style, since the last coach who brought that to them, Parcels, was pretty successful.

Shanahan's a player's coach, and that's all Denver's known for more than a decade, and with some good success (2 superbowls, playoff appearances, consistent records). McDaniels hasn't proven anything as a head coach, but he expects the same cache as Bellichick. He doesn't grasp that he has to earn it.

When Bellichick tried to do it his way in Cleveland without Parcels being a pre-cursor there, he was terrible. It was good fortune for him that the Pats had already tasted success with his management style, through Parcels. In some ways, Parcels paved the way for Bellichick. McDaniels isn't getting the same luxury.

One thing that's certain; he has unshakeable confidence in himself and his system. That could turn out to be a very good thing, or a very bad thing. We'll soon see. We'll see if he turns into a Petrino, Mangini, Crennel, Weis, or Bellichick.


I couldnt disagree more. Parcells was good and has been good in certain circumstances. However, Parcells left a train wreck in Dallas. The Jets are no better now than they were when he was there and his last hoorah with NE was what? 96'? Although i have no doubt that BB learned a few things from Parcells i wouldnt go out of my way to say that the team was solidified on the "team" concept as you elude too. I do agree however that what McD has picked up from BB will either make him or break him.

honz
03-17-2009, 10:13 PM
I think Jay was showing that by coming here and working with McD for 2 weeks, studying the playbook, and instead of McD recognizing that, he went after his boy.

Maybe so. I've stated that I think they both deserve some blame, but if Cutler truly feels so slighted I think he should man up and and come and prove to McDaniels that he really was an idiot to ever try and trade him. He should prove him wrong with his play though, not his mouth or some silly standoff.

Shazam!
03-17-2009, 10:14 PM
If Parcells had free reign, Dallas would've been in the SB. His mere presence in the Miami office and looked what happened with what he assembled. Parcells is the man.

lex
03-17-2009, 10:15 PM
Maybe so. I've stated that I think they both deserve some blame, but if Cutler truly feels so slighted I think he should man up and and come and prove to McDaniels that he really was an idiot to ever try and trade him. He should prove him wrong with his play though, not his mouth or some silly standoff.

No. If he's truly THAT offended, he should not let McDaniels benefit from his performing well.

bcbronc
03-17-2009, 10:17 PM
"One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady. Oh, and his won-lost record is 17-20."

See I don't buy this statement, because all the news media talked about how he is a gym rat and studies film all the time. I know it popular to paint Shanahan as Herm Edwards these days, but he wouldn't let that shit go no matter who it was. If Cutler wasn't doing what he need to learn the playbook and study the film his ass would have been on the bench.

and I seem to remember this summer when Marshall was on probation a lot of talk about how Brandon living with Jay would be good for Marshall. iirc there was nothing but glowing reports then about Jay's study of film.




http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f49d80&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true



what a punk ass McDaniels is...

I have a passionate hate for him now. If I'm ever at a Bronco game...i will always be sure to hope that he gets hit like Charlie Weis at Notre Dame...

you're not even making sense any more. the part of the article you quoted is more down on Jay than it is McDaniels. plus that article has been posted about 4 times already. you're on a Mcgenda and flinging Mcspam all over these boards.


But, doesn't new management at least give the employees they inherited a chance to prove themselves, based on performance under them, before making a decision to keep them or let them go?

Totally different situation here - you say that new management never, ever lets the inmates run the asylum. Jay was here two weeks before McD blew everything - Jay was here on his own time, learning the new playbook, etc. Should that not prove anything to McD - should Jay at least be given the chance on the field to earn, or lose the QB position?

but this new management has three seasons' worth of tape on the employee he inherited. He also has coaches that have been working with Cutler on McDaniels' staff. Plus Josh has broken down tape with one of the top defensive minds of the era game-planning on Jay's weaknesses and strengths. it's not like he's a new boss meeting his employees for the first time.

McDaniels offense has been a success. no one can argue that. If McDaniels felt Cassel could run his system *as well* or better than Cutler, and Cutler could bring additional assets that can help our defense get into the top half of the league, then the TEAM has improved. It's no different than Shanny not taking a RB in the 1st because he knew his system would get the same production out of back taken in the 5th. Casel could have been McD's "5th-round running back", and Cutler that "1st round pick" that brings additional assets.

it isn't even necessarily that McD feels Cassel is a *better* qb, but rather that we are a better *team* with him plus assets. but since KC picked him up, Josh has consistantly said he wants Jay to be his qb and is excited to work with him. But he's also consistantly said that if a trade makes the team better, any player can move.

why any fan of the team would prefer an individual player over a better team is beyond me.

omac
03-17-2009, 10:27 PM
I couldnt disagree more. Parcells was good and has been good in certain circumstances. However, Parcells left a train wreck in Dallas. The Jets are no better now than they were when he was there and his last hoorah with NE was what? 96'? Although i have no doubt that BB learned a few things from Parcells i wouldnt go out of my way to say that the team was solidified on the "team" concept as you elude too. I do agree however that what McD has picked up from BB will either make him or break him.

The situation I brought up was Parcells stay in NE, which ended pretty successfully, with a superbowl appearance. Before Parcells took over NE, their records were 5-11, 1-15, 6-10, 2-14. He started with 5-11, then took them to 10-6 his 2nd season, took a step back at 6-10, then took a huge leap forward at 11-5 and a superbowl appearance. The Pats hadn't been to a superbowl in 11 years.

scott.475
03-17-2009, 10:29 PM
I wonder how popular I would be with my wife if, every time we had a disagreement, I told her that I loved her and wanted to be with her, but was always looking to upgrade...she probably wouldn't have much trust in me either.

lex
03-17-2009, 10:33 PM
I wonder how popular I would be with my wife if, every time we had a disagreement, I told her that I loved her and wanted to be with her, but was always looking to upgrade...she probably wouldn't have much trust in me either.

What if it makes you happier? Some times its best to part ways?


If you need any more marriage advice, just let me know.

honz
03-17-2009, 10:36 PM
No. If he's truly THAT offended, he should not let McDaniels benefit from his performing well.

If he wants to be immature about it, I suppose. What happened to him "playing for his teammates"?

slim
03-17-2009, 10:43 PM
I wonder how popular I would be with my wife if, every time we had a disagreement, I told her that I loved her and wanted to be with her, but was always looking to upgrade...she probably wouldn't have much trust in me either.

This is really not a well thought out argument...unless you are paying your wife to stand by your side.

lex
03-17-2009, 10:55 PM
If he wants to be immature about it, I suppose. What happened to him "playing for his teammates"?

McDaniels is making it untenable.

LoyalSoldier
03-18-2009, 12:57 AM
If he wants to be immature about it, I suppose. What happened to him "playing for his teammates"?

Between liking your coworkers and hating your boss,hating your boss usually wins out. Anyone who has worked in that situation knows that.

NameUsedBefore
03-18-2009, 01:05 AM
Between liking your coworkers and hating your boss,hating your boss usually wins out. Anyone who has worked in that situation knows that.

Yup.

Although Cutler's handling this better than I did >_>

dogfish
03-18-2009, 02:50 AM
Between liking your coworkers and hating your boss,hating your boss usually wins out. Anyone who has worked in that situation knows that.


i wonder if cutler's going to pull a timmy!?

Kapaibro
03-18-2009, 03:19 AM
Are we all forgetting that McD did NOT instigate the trade talks?

He was contacted, and declined.


The way y'all are carrying on you'd think he was on the phone to every bloody team in the NFL trying to work a trade.

Den21vsBal19
03-18-2009, 04:08 AM
No. If he's truly THAT offended, he should not let McDaniels benefit from his performing well.
Why not?

Long term, playing to the best of his ability in adversity will only enhance HIS reputation & valuation.......................if he comes in and acts like a jerk, and continues to conduct his business via the press, he's only going to hurt himself......

elsid13
03-18-2009, 04:59 AM
has anyone on this board ever managed people? you never, ever let the inmates run the asylum.

this isn't mcdaniels' fault. this is the fault of a quarterback who isn't willing to be anything less than a prima donna.


Actually I do now, and I know that I need to handle my helicopter generation employees different then way I treat my yuppies employees. I hold them all to the same standard of performance, but I know that I need to communicate differently. Those are the soft skills that make a good manager.

I also know from experience that McDaniels is making all the classic mistakes of new PM taking on new senior postion. As leader you can be hard ass you need to be, but I know that you can never been seen as playing games with employees' careers.

Dirk
03-18-2009, 06:54 AM
Unfortunately I have learned that no matter how loyal you are to a company (Broncos being a business), that unless it is a small "mom and pop" business, that loyalty is in most cases a one way street.

Meaning that you can shed blood, sweat and tears for a business and stand behind them, but when the business feels they need to lay you off for the success of the business, there is no loyalty to keep you...you get your walking papers. Plain and simple.

That is how the business world works. Unfortunately.