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View Full Version : John Fox says Broncos likely to sign two QBs to compete with Tebow



Denver Native (Carol)
02-20-2012, 05:18 PM
Tim Tebow is still the man. He's just not going to be the only man.

While Tebow is the Broncos' starting quarterback, the team is expected to acquire two new quarterbacks this offseason.

"Numbers wise that's accurate," Broncos coach John Fox said Monday over a team cafeteria lunch of barbecue chicken and macaroni and cheese. "Who, what, where, when, what market — it's still way too early how we get those quarterbacks."

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20005230

MOtorboat
02-20-2012, 05:41 PM
Mmmm...Mac and cheese.

iLands
02-20-2012, 05:43 PM
Does everyone seem to expect a later-round Draft QB and a FA vet or do you have other speculation?

WTE
02-20-2012, 05:50 PM
Mmmm...Mac and cheese.

and bbq chicken.

chazoe60
02-20-2012, 05:59 PM
I expect an older vet and a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.


Osweiler, Foles, Cousins, Wilson, Moore are the names to watch for in the draft I think.

RebelRocker
02-20-2012, 06:01 PM
I expect an older vet and a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.


Osweiler, Foles, Cousins, Wilson, Moore are the names to watch for in the draft I think.

Don't forget BJ Coleman. He seems like a QB Elway would like and he could be had in the 4th. Other than that, I agree with you, Chazoe.

Davii
02-20-2012, 06:02 PM
I expect an older vet and a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.


Osweiler, Foles, Cousins, Wilson, Moore are the names to watch for in the draft I think.

+1 on this.

SOCALORADO.
02-20-2012, 06:02 PM
I expect an older vet and a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.


Osweiler, Foles, Cousins, Wilson, Moore are the names to watch for in the draft I think.

Been saying this forever now. For f*** sake folks! What is the big deal!?!?
DEN will bring in a vet, Brunnel or Delhomme and draft a "developmental" QB in the late 2nd or early 3rd round. Foles or Osweiller.

RebelRocker
02-20-2012, 06:28 PM
Been saying this forever now. For f*** sake folks! What is the big deal!?!?
DEN will bring in a vet, Brunnel or Delhomme and draft a "developmental" QB in the late 2nd or early 3rd round. Foles or Osweiller.

It's going to be interesting to see which QB's they interview and bring in for workouts. If you try to read in between the lines, the FO has given different descriptions of what they're looking for in QB's.

Elway has said that he's looking for a "big athlete that can throw from the pocket". To me, that boils it down to Foles, Osweiler and Coleman.

Xanders said that they're looking for a good leader with pocket poise, good accuracy, solid athleticism and good "intangibles".To me, that boils it down to Moore, Cousins and Wilson.

I think that Wilson and Moore are the most intriguing of the bunch because we know for a fact that EFX/team scouts have already interviewed both of them and clearly shown an initial interest.

The combine will be a big factor, as well. Depending on how well the QB's test, physically and mentally through team interviews, I think the list will be whittled down and by mid march, we'll have this QB prospect debate down to two or three guys.

Lancane
02-20-2012, 06:42 PM
It's going to be interesting to see which QB's they interview and bring in for workouts. If you try to read in between the lines, the FO has given different descriptions of what they're looking for in QB's.

Elway has said that he's looking for a "big athlete that can throw from the pocket". To me, that boils it down to Foles, Osweiler and Coleman.

Xanders said that they're looking for a good leader with pocket poise, good accuracy, solid athleticism and good "intangibles".To me, that boils it down to Moore, Cousins and Wilson.

I think that Wilson and Moore are the most intriguing of the bunch because we know for a fact that EFX/team scouts have already interviewed both of them and clearly shown an initial interest.

The combine will be a big factor, as well. Depending on how well the QB's test, physically and mentally through team interviews, I think the list will be whittled down and by mid march, we'll have this QB prospect debate down to two or three guys.

Thing is, this is Elway's horse and pony show and that tells me that his opinion will be the opinion that matters the most. And if we focus on who the Broncos' scouts have talked with, well there are a lot more on that list then Moore and Wilson. And let's not forget that Foles has mentioned he's a Broncos' fan and would like to come here and Osweiler is Elway's son's friend and former teammate, not to mention was coached by one of Elway's mentors and a close family friends.

I think it will be a point of who they bring in more then who we talk with at the combine in all honesty.

RebelRocker
02-20-2012, 06:45 PM
Thing is, this is Elway's horse and pony show and that tells me that his opinion will be the opinion that matters the most. And if we focus on who the Broncos' scouts have talked with, well there are a lot more on that list then Moore and Wilson. And let's not forget that Foles has mentioned he's a Broncos' fan and would like to come here and Osweiler is Elway's son's friend and former teammate, not to mention was coached by one of Elway's mentors and a close family friends.

I think it will be a point of who they bring in more then who we talk with at the combine in all honesty.

I completely agree, Lancane. IMHO, I think this will come down to Osweiler and Foles. It all depends on where they can get them and the value of the draft pick they have to use to get them.

Chef Zambini
02-21-2012, 09:29 AM
ryan leaf and joe theisman.

CoachChaz
02-21-2012, 09:32 AM
Still doesnt make any sense to me to draft a project in the 3rd round.

Chef Zambini
02-21-2012, 09:47 AM
Still doesnt make any sense to me to draft a project in the 3rd round.ironic since thats exactly where TEBOW was projectedin his draft and the overwelming discription of his ability was "project".
I would be THRILLED if we got kellen moore in the third round, he is projected to go in the fourth.
He will outplay tebow at the QB position from day ONE of camp !

Chef Zambini
02-21-2012, 09:51 AM
as for the vet we sign...
GERRARD and Mc Nabb would be great mentors for tim.

claymore
02-21-2012, 09:51 AM
Still doesnt make any sense to me to draft a project in the 3rd round.

I agree 10,000%. We have enough projects in Tebow and Webber.

BroncoNut
02-21-2012, 09:53 AM
Mmmm...Mac and cheese.

i would like to get my hands on a good mac and cheese recipe. I can't imagine it being that difficult to make.

2 additional qbs might lean towards the aggressive side, but this seems pretty reasonable and should make for an exciting camp. i will expect to draft one and an FA signing. the question is who.

BroncoNut
02-21-2012, 09:54 AM
I agree 10,000%. We have enough projects in Tebow and Webber.

forgot about weber.

TheReverend
02-21-2012, 10:03 AM
Been saying this forever now. For f*** sake folks! What is the big deal!?!?
DEN will bring in a vet, Brunnel or Delhomme and draft a "developmental" QB in the late 2nd or early 3rd round. Foles or Osweiller.

Flushing a finite valuable resource down the toilet / 10

SOCALORADO.
02-21-2012, 10:09 AM
Flushing a finite valuable resource down the toilet / 10

Get ready cause thats whats coming.
Elway isnt rolling into next year without a Vet, and a developmental QB he can call his own if the Tebow thing goes south.
I know, the team has other needs, but i will bet the farm he takes a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. I also bet he moves a 2013 pick to do so.

TheReverend
02-21-2012, 10:17 AM
Get ready cause thats whats coming.
Elway isnt rolling into next year without a Vet, and a developmental QB he can call his own if the Tebow thing goes south.
I know, the team has other needs, but i will bet the farm he takes a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. I also bet he moves a 2013 pick to do so.

It's totally NOT whats coming, my friend.

We'll get a competent vet that we can compete with if Tebow falls off, but otherwise we won't be wasting picks that could potentially be used as future ammo in a bid for John to go after the big prospect like Barkley that he REALLY wants (if Tebow falters)

TXBRONC
02-21-2012, 10:50 AM
Does everyone seem to expect a later-round Draft QB and a FA vet or do you have other speculation?

If you're meaning 6th or 7th round they generally don't compete for starting job because they need more development. If EFX drafts one with intention of competing with Tebow it wont be someone taken that late in the draft. I've can recall any late round quarterback ever competing to be the starter from day one because those quarterbacks that need a lot of development.

RebelRocker
02-21-2012, 10:52 AM
It's totally NOT whats coming, my friend.

We'll get a competent vet that we can compete with if Tebow falls off, but otherwise we won't be wasting picks that could potentially be used as future ammo in a bid for John to go after the big prospect like Barkley that he REALLY wants (if Tebow falters)

You are delusional if you think EFX won't draft a QB this year. I don't know how they can make it any more obvious from what they've said.

Do you see two competent young vet QB's that could come here and start for the next 10+ years???

That's what I thought.

That leaves us with the draft.

capt. Jack
02-21-2012, 11:01 AM
I think we should trade Tebow for whatever we can get, Trade whatever we have to get LUCK, that way the QB drama will end for now. And if he fails and Tebow wins somewhere else s**t can Elway & Fox and start over! I just can't stand the QB drama anymore. It got me banned over on the other board! :-)

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SOCALORADO.
02-21-2012, 11:42 AM
:
It's totally NOT whats coming, my friend.

We'll get a competent vet that we can compete with if Tebow falls off, but otherwise we won't be wasting picks that could potentially be used as future ammo in a bid for John to go after the big prospect like Barkley that he REALLY wants (if Tebow falters)

So he really wants Barkley!?!?!
Awsome! :lol:
WIN!

CoachChaz
02-21-2012, 11:44 AM
:

So he really wants Barkley!?!?!
Awsome! :lol:
WIN!

As opposed to Odweiler or Foles? Yeah...WIN!

LTC Pain
02-21-2012, 11:44 AM
Too many intangibles at this point to know what the Broncos will do (or not) at the QB position in the draft. Let's see if the Broncos sign a veteran QB during the FA signing period first. That may give an indication what the Broncos do at the QB position in the draft.

Northman
02-21-2012, 11:52 AM
It's totally NOT whats coming, my friend.

We'll get a competent vet that we can compete with if Tebow falls off, but otherwise we won't be wasting picks that could potentially be used as future ammo in a bid for John to go after the big prospect like Barkley that he REALLY wants (if Tebow falters)


You are delusional if you think EFX won't draft a QB this year. I don't know how they can make it any more obvious from what they've said.

Do you see two competent young vet QB's that could come here and start for the next 10+ years???

That's what I thought.

That leaves us with the draft.


Hate to say it Rev but i think they are right. Tebow is still a major question mark right now and they can ill-afford to go into next season without a young guy (whom they have chosen and feel comfortable with) in case Tebow doesnt improve. A vet will certainly play out the year should Tebow fail but in a QB heavy draft i definitely see the FO taking a QB somewhere in this draft, most likely the 3rd round and on.

SOCALORADO.
02-21-2012, 11:55 AM
As opposed to Odweiler or Foles? Yeah...WIN!

Lets do it!
http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2011/10/01/100111-USC-Matt-Barkley-PI_20111001192937957_660_320.JPG

CoachChaz
02-21-2012, 11:56 AM
Hate to say it Rev but i think they are right. Tebow is still a major question mark right now and they can ill-afford to go into next season without a young guy (whom they have chosen and feel comfortable with) in case Tebow doesnt improve. A vet will certainly play out the year should Tebow fail but in a QB heavy draft i definitely see the FO taking a QB somewhere in this draft, most likely the 3rd round and on.

Take a look at the 2013 class before you call this one "QB heavy"

SOCALORADO.
02-21-2012, 11:57 AM
Hate to say it Rev but i think they are right. Tebow is still a major question mark right now and they can ill-afford to go into next season without a young guy (whom they have chosen and feel comfortable with) in case Tebow doesnt improve. A vet will certainly play out the year should Tebow fail but in a QB heavy draft i definitely see the FO taking a QB somewhere in this draft, most likely the 3rd round and on.

Hey! Were getting this guy....girl alright!!!?!?
Just go with it north.
http://www.playerwives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/twitter4.jpg

Northman
02-21-2012, 11:57 AM
Just say no to Chewing Bark.

Northman
02-21-2012, 11:57 AM
Take a look at the 2013 class before you call this one "QB heavy"

Yea, but are any of them good? :lol:

Northman
02-21-2012, 11:58 AM
Hey! Were getting this guy....girl alright!!!?!?
Just go with it north.
http://www.playerwives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/twitter4.jpg

Who's the girl dating? Draco Malfoy?

SOCALORADO.
02-21-2012, 12:00 PM
Who's the girl dating? Draco Malfoy?

I know! The whole t shirt with the sport jacket thing is soo LA lame!.

CoachChaz
02-21-2012, 12:00 PM
Yea, but are any of them good? :lol:

Barkley, Jones, Wilson, Smith, Manuel, Bray, Murray...


I'd take any of these guys over Osweiler, Wilson, Foles, etc.

Nomad
02-21-2012, 12:02 PM
Hey! Were getting this guy....girl alright!!!?!?
Just go with it north.
http://www.playerwives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/twitter4.jpg

Hot body.....but if she keeps fake-n-baking, she'll soon be leathery and wrinkled.

Barkely = JAPBUSCQB

Northman
02-21-2012, 12:04 PM
Barkley, Jones, Wilson, Smith, Manuel, Bray, Murray...


I'd take any of these guys over Osweiler, Wilson, Foles, etc.

Jones and Barkley are first rounders but both have question marks to me (as do all QB's coming into the NFL). The other guys i dont recognize but i like Osweiler because from what ive seen ive liked. Foles and Wilson dont do much for me but Wilson was one of the top rated guys in the league last year in terms of accuracy. Just dont know much about the type of offense he had at Wisc. I know he had Toon on the other end though.

SOCALORADO.
02-21-2012, 12:08 PM
Jones and Barkley are first rounders but both have question marks to me (as do all QB's coming into the NFL). The other guys i dont recognize but i like Osweiler because from what ive seen ive liked. Foles and Wilson dont do much for me but Wilson was one of the top rated guys in the league last year in terms of accuracy. Just dont know much about the type of offense he had at Wisc. I know he had Toon on the other end though.

Osweiller and Foles are lightyears ahead of all but Barkley.
Murray and Bray have alot of promise.

TXBRONC
02-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Still doesnt make any sense to me to draft a project in the 3rd round.

It doesn't sound like they would draft a project to me nor does it mean that would draft one in the third round. It could be higher than that.

SOCALORADO.
02-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Hot body.....but if she keeps fake-n-baking, she'll soon be leathery and wrinkled.

Barkely = JAPBUSCQB

What does this mean? JAPBUSCQB
Seriously i dont know.

Nomad
02-21-2012, 12:12 PM
What does this mean? JAPBUSCQB
Seriously i dont know.

Just Another Pretty Boy USC QB:D

TXBRONC
02-21-2012, 12:17 PM
Just Another Pretty Boy USC QB:D

Jealous much? :D

Nomad
02-21-2012, 12:18 PM
Jealous much? :D

Hell yeah!:lol:

TXBRONC
02-21-2012, 12:22 PM
Who's the girl dating? Draco Malfoy?

You know really does look like Draco Malfoy. :lol:

Northman
02-21-2012, 12:27 PM
You know really does look like Draco Malfoy. :lol:

I know, i had to do a double take. :lol:

TXBRONC
02-21-2012, 12:31 PM
I know, i had to do a double take. :lol:

I could handle looking like Draco Malfoy if it meant having a girl friend that looks like her.

Joel
02-21-2012, 12:31 PM
as for the vet we sign...
GERRARD and Mc Nabb would be great mentors for tim.
Been on that bandwagon a while. They know how to get from where Tebow is to where he must go, because both did, though McNabb moreso than Garrard. Just as importantly, if Tebow was hurt a while, they share the uncommon ability to do things our offense will seek to exploit as long as he's our starter. Note: I'm not saying they can run an offense "designed around" Tebow (as such,) only that Tebow has unusual assets we will try to make use of as long as he's our QB, and that option would largely remain available with McNabb or Garrard, but not most other FA vets. They aren't as fast and durable as in past years, but haven't lost it all.

We should definitely find a FA vet as our backup, both for the proven leadership we'll need if Tebow is hurt long and to mentor him. Obviously, the more that vet resemble Tebow the more interchangeable they are.

Northman
02-21-2012, 12:33 PM
I could handle looking like Draco Malfoy if it meant having a girl friend that looks like her.

Yea, i would definitely tell her to spend some time in Alaska though. If i brought her home my dad would question whether or not she was white. :lol:

Nomad
02-21-2012, 12:40 PM
Yea, i would definitely tell her to spend some time in Alaska though. If i brought her home my dad would question whether or not she was white. :lol:

Yes....you will definitely lose our tan here. You can spot a fake-n-baker a mile away.

SOCALORADO.
02-21-2012, 12:58 PM
You know really does look like Draco Malfoy. :lol:

LOL! I had to google that name!
Man, i just dont keep up on this shit.

TheReverend
02-21-2012, 01:25 PM
LOL! I had to google that name!
Man, i just dont keep up on this shit.

lol same

TheReverend
02-21-2012, 01:26 PM
Hate to say it Rev but i think they are right. Tebow is still a major question mark right now and they can ill-afford to go into next season without a young guy (whom they have chosen and feel comfortable with) in case Tebow doesnt improve. A vet will certainly play out the year should Tebow fail but in a QB heavy draft i definitely see the FO taking a QB somewhere in this draft, most likely the 3rd round and on.

A young guy will mean nothing more than more rookie developmental hiccups.

They won't see someone in the 2nd or 3rd they feel can be the franchise this year.

They're much better served giving Tim his opportunity with a competent vet behind him in case of disaster and more resources to attack a legitimate young QB in case of disaster in 2013.

Northman
02-21-2012, 01:30 PM
They won't see someone in the 2nd or 3rd they feel can be the franchise this year.

They're much better served giving Tim his opportunity with a competent vet behind him in case of disaster and more resources to attack a legitimate young QB in case of disaster in 2013.

I think they do both. Lets face it, even with the other holes on this team its not all going to be fixed in this draft. I think we are still a good two years away from being a true contender.

TheReverend
02-21-2012, 01:37 PM
I think they do both. Lets face it, even with the other holes on this team its not all going to be fixed in this draft. I think we are still a good two years away from being a true contender.

You're right that it won't be fixed in this draft.

...but that doesn't create an abundance of these resources. They are FINITE. And potentially flushing one down the toilet at a QB who, if Tebow falters, would more than likely not play behind a chosen vet, but would also most likely get replaced by a first/second round gambit next season anyway is the height of stupidity.

Slick
02-21-2012, 01:49 PM
It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the Broncos pass on drafting a QB. I could see them sign a vet and roll with Tebow, the vet, and Weber.

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BroncoNut
02-21-2012, 02:03 PM
It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the Broncos pass on drafting a QB. I could see them sign a vet and roll with Tebow, the vet, and Weber.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

either way wouldn't surprise me. I guess if I was a betting man, I'd say they will late.

Chef Zambini
02-21-2012, 02:10 PM
It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the Broncos pass on drafting a QB. I could see them sign a vet and roll with Tebow, the vet, and Weber.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forumsIf that vet was someone we could win with, not just some guy that can outperform tebow in caMP, THEN YES, A DRAFT PICK COULD BE THROWN AT ANOTHER POSITION. THEN AGAIN, IF YOU ARE DRAFTING late IN THE THIRD ROUND AND KELLEN MOORE IS AVAILABLE, why would you pass on that opportunity, given your current QB talent.

TXBRONC
02-21-2012, 02:15 PM
You're right that it won't be fixed in this draft.

...but that doesn't create an abundance of these resources. They are FINITE. And potentially flushing one down the toilet at a QB who, if Tebow falters, would more than likely not play behind a chosen vet, but would also most likely get replaced by a first/second round gambit next season anyway is the height of stupidity.

They (EFX) has said they're philosophy is take the best available player no matter the position. Considering Denver's situation taking a quarterback if he's the bpa isn't a bad idea imo. If Tebow was solidified as the franchise quarterback I think that would make a huge difference.

That said, all of the top tier quarterbacks will be gone before we make our first pick assuming Denver hasn't tried move up in the draft.

TheReverend
02-21-2012, 02:30 PM
They (EFX) has said they're philosophy is take the best available player no matter the position. Considering Denver's situation taking a quarterback if he's the bpa isn't a bad idea imo. If Tebow was solidified as the franchise quarterback I think that would make a huge difference.

That said, all of the top tier quarterbacks will be gone before we make our first pick assuming Denver hasn't tried move up in the draft.

BPA won't include QB. At least not early. Barring some catastrophic fall for a prospect they fell in love with (like RGIII sitting there when we pick in the first).

IMO, they'll be more prone to select a QB as an act of FAITH in Tebow. Like someone in the mold of Denard Robinson who's not only athletic enough to execute the offense, but athletic enough to be a vital gadget weapon situationally.

Lancane
02-21-2012, 07:25 PM
BPA won't include QB. At least not early. Barring some catastrophic fall for a prospect they fell in love with (like RGIII sitting there when we pick in the first).

IMO, they'll be more prone to select a QB as an act of FAITH in Tebow. Like someone in the mold of Denard Robinson who's not only athletic enough to execute the offense, but athletic enough to be a vital gadget weapon situationally.

I'd be willing to bet a lot more that BPA will include a quarterback, including Tannehill if he falls far enough. Three years is the ceiling for coaches in regards to drafted players, if they show enough promise they may give them a fourth...quarterback though is slightly different because it's the focal point and key position in the sport. If Denver fails to draft a quarterback this off-season and Tebow bombs (as I suspect he will for various reasons) then Coach Fox and this regime will have only two years to instill a quarterback into position and prove they deserve more time, exactly when you want three years. What happened this season is a fluke in a lot of people's eyes, and Fox will not get an extension based off such a season, it's his career as well. And Elway sure in the hell doesn't want to be known as the Vice President that allowed the Broncos to fall into despair simply over the fan's wishes. So there is a lot more at stake then just Tebow's future, the teams future matters first and foremost. And I do believe that Fox and Elway have been straight, they are adding at least two quarterbacks, I do believe one will come via the draft and Tebow will have to win the spot in camp, no matter what anyone says.

TheReverend
02-21-2012, 07:55 PM
I'd be willing to bet a lot more that BPA will include a quarterback, including Tannehill if he falls far enough. Three years is the ceiling for coaches in regards to drafted players, if they show enough promise they may give them a fourth...quarterback though is slightly different because it's the focal point and key position in the sport. If Denver fails to draft a quarterback this off-season and Tebow bombs (as I suspect he will for various reasons) then Coach Fox and this regime will have only two years to instill a quarterback into position and prove they deserve more time, exactly when you want three years. What happened this season is a fluke in a lot of people's eyes, and Fox will not get an extension based off such a season, it's his career as well. And Elway sure in the hell doesn't want to be known as the Vice President that allowed the Broncos to fall into despair simply over the fan's wishes. So there is a lot more at stake then just Tebow's future, the teams future matters first and foremost. And I do believe that Fox and Elway have been straight, they are adding at least two quarterbacks, I do believe one will come via the draft and Tebow will have to win the spot in camp, no matter what anyone says.

If Tebow fails, Fox will already HAVE proven he deserves more time considering that would mean he managed to win a playoff game IN SPITE of his QB against the defending AFC Champs.

An impressive feat.

Lancane
02-21-2012, 09:49 PM
If Tebow fails, Fox will already HAVE proven he deserves more time considering that would mean he managed to win a playoff game IN SPITE of his QB against the defending AFC Champs.

An impressive feat.

Not enough in this day and age Rev, you know that. This league has become so win (not just seasonal but continuous) orientated that regimes don't have the time to build from the ground up before they feel the heat under their asses. I already think Coach Fox did a good job, but it's not going to be enough because come the end of the day, the question will be are they competing and if so how far are they still away from their goal? Remember even McDaniels went 8-8, Fox was just lucky it was enough to win the division so in retrospect it's much the same. He'll need to continue to prove he can, and if it's the quarterback that stopping the progress of his team, I'm sure he'll let Elway know.

Northman
02-21-2012, 09:58 PM
Not enough in this day and age Rev, you know that. This league has become so win (not just seasonal but continuous) orientated that regimes don't have the time to build from the ground up before they feel the heat under their asses. I already think Coach Fox did a good job, but it's not going to be enough because come the end of the day, the question will be are they competing and if so how far are they still away from their goal? Remember even McDaniels went 8-8, Fox was just lucky it was enough to win the division so in retrospect it's much the same. He'll need to continue to prove he can, and if it's the quarterback that stopping the progress of his team, I'm sure he'll let Elway know.

Indeed.

Carroll faced just one season without Manning and it cost him his job. The old days of having 3-5 years to build a contender are gone or just about. Right now the Texans are the only team i can see that have given Kubes way more leeway than most HC's. But had Manning been healthy they may not have made it. They caught a lucky break but with teams like San Fran and Cincy doing the kinds of things they did in a short time will continue to put pressure on Fox and Elway to keep the Broncos at a playoff level after what happened last year.