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View Full Version : (Poll) Hypothetical - Will Chris Simms excel as the starting QB?



omac
03-17-2009, 04:32 AM
(Poll above)

This is not a Cutler vs. McDaniels thread, as there are a lot of those already. If we did trade Cutler for picks and/or players, but did not get a QB in return, how would you feel about Chris Simms starting?

I really want to believe that he's good, and he just got a raw deal in Tampa, but the more I searched the net, I just couldn't see it.

http://www.nfl.com/players/chrissimms/profile?id=SIM339462

In 6 years in the league, he's started only 15 games; yes, we all know about the injury, but even before then, he wasn't starting a whole lot of games. He's thrown all of 12 TDs and 17 INTs in his 6 year career; Flacco's already done more than that as a rookie, in a similarly conservative, defense oriented team. The season where he got injured, he played 3 games and threw 1 TD vs. 7 INTs. In the 1 regular season game he played for Tennessee, he had all of 2 passes, completing one of them, and he also got sacked.

I tried to look back for articles about him in the draft, and this story's what came up ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1492027&type=columnist

"Simms tries to rewrite his scouting report" ... wherein he gives reasons why he did not excel in Texas, noting the offense they run and such.

I want to root for Simms, because he showed toughness in getting back to football shape, and resolve in enduring what must've been hell in Tampa under Gruden. I also liked his old fantasy football commercial. :D

Maybe the truth is, he isn't really that good.

I also don't like lefties for QBs, as that messes up the protection by the OL. Ryan Harris played great, but Clady is a beast. We'll see just how good Harris is at protecting Simms' backside.

Much as I want to think Simms will do as well as Cassel did in McDaniels' offense, Cassel was entrenched in that offense for a while, in the same way Aaron Rodgers was for GB. Simms didn't really excel in college, nor in the pros, so maybe he will be McDaniels' next Cassel.

I doubt it, though.

Lonestar
03-17-2009, 04:43 AM
I don't think they would signed had they not thought he was good. As we know last year a freak play. Made Cassell a pretty damned good one.
Some folks sell Josh short , because of their blind love for rocket man.

omac
03-17-2009, 05:04 AM
I don't think they would signed had they not thought he was good. As we know last year a freak play. Made Cassell a pretty damned good one.
Some folks sell Josh short , because of their blind love for rocket man.

Here you go again, trying to make this a Cutler-McDaniels thing. :coffee:

I'm not asking if you think management believes Simms is good; just asking if you think he's good.

Dirk
03-17-2009, 06:14 AM
I think that Simms would be a middle of the pack type of QB. He will never be a "star" so to speak. But he is smart enough to run the system.

omac
03-17-2009, 06:20 AM
I think that Simms would be a middle of the pack type of QB. He will never be a "star" so to speak. But he is smart enough to run the system.

Yeah, I agree with you. :beer:

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 07:59 AM
At worst, I think he could put up Cassel type numbers in a spread offense. Maybe more with the line we have.

DallasChief
03-17-2009, 08:12 AM
Simms is 7-8 as a starter. That's better then Jay.


:D

claymore
03-17-2009, 08:15 AM
Simms is 7-8 as a starter. That's better then Jay.


:D

I hate you.

Shazam!
03-17-2009, 08:54 AM
He's hungry. He wanted to be here. He wants to succeed. He's a fierce competitor. He'd love nothing more than to be a Broncos starting QB. That's more than I can say right now about Cutler.

Hopefully daddy will help him with some timeless advice.

Does anyone remember that the Broncos sniffed the Super Bowl with Jake friggin' Plummer?

DallasChief
03-17-2009, 08:55 AM
Jake Plummer > Chris Simms

Shazam!
03-17-2009, 08:57 AM
Wrong as usual.

DallasChief
03-17-2009, 09:10 AM
Wrong as usual.

Oh, ok. Shouldn't you be e-mailing the webmaster of the Bronco's website right now? I'm sure he's very interested in what you have to say.

broncofaninfla
03-17-2009, 09:13 AM
I felt going into free agency that Simms was one of the best available and I'm glad we got him. I'd much rather have Jay at the helm BUT Simms is way better than Ramsey or Hackney.

Northman
03-17-2009, 09:19 AM
Again, not enough options.

claymore
03-17-2009, 09:22 AM
Jake Plummer > Chris Simms

Way better. Simms couldnt keep griese of the field in Tampa.

Shazam!
03-17-2009, 09:26 AM
Jake is a better athlete, but Simms is a smarter player. Like Chad Pennington doesn't have the physical as many QBs, but his leadership and smart decisions make up for it. Griese has much more experience than a young Simms did.

claymore
03-17-2009, 09:49 AM
Jake is a better athlete, but Simms is a smarter player. Like Chad Pennington doesn't have the physical as many QBs, but his leadership and smart decisions make up for it. Griese has much more experience than a young Simms did.

Dude Simms is not a starter in the NFL and was a marginal College player.

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 10:01 AM
Dude Simms is not a starter in the NFL and was a marginal College player.

He was a starter before injury and has more playoff experience than Cutler does. If you want to be technical about it

omac
03-17-2009, 10:07 AM
Yeah, that makes Rex Grossman better than Cutler, Simms, Plummer, Brees, Rivers, etc., because he went to the superbowl.

claymore
03-17-2009, 10:14 AM
He was a starter before injury and has more playoff experience than Cutler does. If you want to be technical about it

The Glazers forced that issue. And Simms playoff experience is minimal and unsuccessful.

omac
03-17-2009, 10:14 AM
At worst, I think he could put up Cassel type numbers in a spread offense. Maybe more with the line we have.

Speaking of the line, I'm not sure how good they'd look in a spread offense; those usually get QBs beaten up, like Brady was in the superbowl. Cassel was the most sacked QB in the league last season, with 47 sacks. Another factor is that Simms will be learning the all new playbook, while Cassel grew up with it in NE.

He might score a lot, or get sacked a lot, or both.

MadMax
03-17-2009, 10:19 AM
I still think Simms has way more upside than he gets credit for. Not one QB that played in Tampa had decent numbers, and we shouldn't underestimate the impact his falling out with Gruden has had on his numbers/playing time. I voted yes he would excel in McDaniels' offense but what i meant was he will excel with Denver's offensive tools.

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 10:22 AM
The Glazers forced that issue. And Simms playoff experience is minimal and unsuccessful.

Here comes the double standard. Didnt we all agree last year that it would be better for Cutler and the team to make the playoffs and get hammered than to not make them at all? That way they'd at least have post season experience? Funny how it was okay to have a bad playoff experience then, but now it doesnt fit the argument so it's invalid.

This is the crap that is annoying me with fan perception. Always twisting facts to fit the opinion.

claymore
03-17-2009, 10:23 AM
I still think Simms has way more upside than he gets credit for. Not one QB that played in Tampa had decent numbers, and we shouldn't underestimate the impact his falling out with Gruden has had on his numbers/playing time. I voted yes he would excel in McDaniels' offense but what i meant was he will excel with Denver's offensive tools.

I watched Simms durring his whole tenure here. Im sure there is a system out there for him, but he is a forgettable QB. Dilfer > Simms

Shazam!
03-17-2009, 10:23 AM
I don't know, some Broncos fans may not be the best judge for QBs... not saying I am either, but some thought Jake was the best QB in the League too.

claymore
03-17-2009, 10:26 AM
Here comes the double standard. Didnt we all agree last year that it would be better for Cutler and the team to make the playoffs and get hammered than to not make them at all? That way they'd at least have post season experience? Funny how it was okay to have a bad playoff experience then, but now it doesnt fit the argument so it's invalid.

This is the crap that is annoying me with fan perception. Always twisting facts to fit the opinion.

I never said that. I thought from a business standpoint it would be silly for them to make it. And as a fan, I didnt want to see them blown out.

I dont think losing in the plaoyoffs and getting used to the sting is/was a good Idea.

I would rather have the draft pick.

Northman
03-17-2009, 10:29 AM
Jake Plummer > Chris Simms

Sad thing is that is true but barely. Simms so far has topped at a 61% completion percentage while Jake topped out at 62%. with a much longer career. :lol:

G_Money
03-17-2009, 10:36 AM
Excel is a strong word.

Chris Simms is a decent-armed, non-accurate game manager who locks on to one target, underthrows the deep ball and has taken a pretty pounding in the pocket that may have made him gunshy - it tends to with most young QBs.

I remember him getting a lot of batted passes, so hopefully he can change that.

He's struggled with confidence thus far, and needs his coach to believe in him. Gruden never did, so there was friction. Media pressure isn't so big a deal, I don't think, just self-pressure.

He's also been a "whiner" in his career, and was accused of being a pouter in Tampa Bay, so if you have an issue with having an emotional QB then Simms is not exactly a cure. He's not quite his father with his imperviousness to criticism. He and Gruden got in some snark-fests of their own down there.

But Simms has been through the ringer before, so he understands the QB shuffle. He's been a starter, lost his job, had to fight for it....stuff wasn't "given" to Chris, but neither was he able to hold onto it once he got it, or able to get back as a starter once he lost his gig.

If we can keep defenders off of him and make him some passing lanes, Chris can do some things. He's got some mobility, he can at times make something out of nothing. Not being crushed in the pocket should be a nice change for him, and the longer he's not getting killed the better he should get. I like the idea of him as a backup QB - as was said, he's better than Ramsey.

But Chris Simms is never putting this team on his back and dragging them to a win, so our running game and our defense will need to carry the water for any significant victory total.

That should concern you a little. Flighty game managers with confidence issues and questionable decision-making don't normally make rock-solid starters, not once people get enough tape on them. Since he's gonna get booed during his first bad performance by the Cutler worshippers, I hope he's found a thicker skin.

But I'd still rather he stay the backup, not the stopgap while we wait for a new draftee to mature.

~G

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 10:39 AM
Excel is a strong word.

Chris Simms is a decent-armed, non-accurate game manager who locks on to one target, underthrows the deep ball and has taken a pretty pounding in the pocket that may have made him gunshy - it tends to with most young QBs.

I remember him getting a lot of batted passes, so hopefully he can change that.

He's struggled with confidence thus far, and needs his coach to believe in him. Gruden never did, so there was friction. Media pressure isn't so big a deal, I don't think, just self-pressure.

He's also been a "whiner" in his career, and was accused of being a pouter in Tampa Bay, so if you have an issue with having an emotional QB then Simms is not exactly a cure. He's not quite his father with his imperviousness to criticism. He and Gruden got in some snark-fests of their own down there.

But Simms has been through the ringer before, so he understands the QB shuffle. He's been a starter, lost his job, had to fight for it....stuff wasn't "given" to Chris, but neither was he able to hold onto it once he got it, or able to get back as a starter once he lost his gig.

If we can keep defenders off of him and make him some passing lanes, Chris can do some things. He's got some mobility, he can at times make something out of nothing. Not being crushed in the pocket should be a nice change for him, and the longer he's not getting killed the better he should get. I like the idea of him as a backup QB - as was said, he's better than Ramsey.

But Chris Simms is never putting this team on his back and dragging them to a win, so our running game and our defense will need to carry the water for any significant victory total.

That should concern you a little. Flighty game managers with confidence issues and questionable decision-making don't normally make rock-solid starters, not once people get enough tape on them. Since he's gonna get booed during his first bad performance by the Cutler worshippers, I hope he's found a thicker skin.

But I'd still rather he stay the backup, not the stopgap while we wait for a new draftee to mature.

~G

Sounds familiar

claymore
03-17-2009, 10:41 AM
Excel is a strong word.

Chris Simms is a decent-armed, non-accurate game manager who locks on to one target, underthrows the deep ball and has taken a pretty pounding in the pocket that may have made him gunshy - it tends to with most young QBs.

I remember him getting a lot of batted passes, so hopefully he can change that.

He's struggled with confidence thus far, and needs his coach to believe in him. Gruden never did, so there was friction. Media pressure isn't so big a deal, I don't think, just self-pressure.

He's also been a "whiner" in his career, and was accused of being a pouter in Tampa Bay, so if you have an issue with having an emotional QB then Simms is not exactly a cure. He's not quite his father with his imperviousness to criticism. He and Gruden got in some snark-fests of their own down there.

But Simms has been through the ringer before, so he understands the QB shuffle. He's been a starter, lost his job, had to fight for it....stuff wasn't "given" to Chris, but neither was he able to hold onto it once he got it, or able to get back as a starter once he lost his gig.

If we can keep defenders off of him and make him some passing lanes, Chris can do some things. He's got some mobility, he can at times make something out of nothing. Not being crushed in the pocket should be a nice change for him, and the longer he's not getting killed the better he should get. I like the idea of him as a backup QB - as was said, he's better than Ramsey.

But Chris Simms is never putting this team on his back and dragging them to a win, so our running game and our defense will need to carry the water for any significant victory total.

That should concern you a little. Flighty game managers with confidence issues and questionable decision-making don't normally make rock-solid starters, not once people get enough tape on them. Since he's gonna get booed during his first bad performance by the Cutler worshippers, I hope he's found a thicker skin.

But I'd still rather he stay the backup, not the stopgap while we wait for a new draftee to mature.

~G

There was a huge ta-do here about Him getting sacked, and him crying when he came back to the huddle, snot, and tears crying. I forgot who sacked him, and I laughed at the time, never imagining him as a Bronco QB.

claymore
03-17-2009, 10:42 AM
Sounds familiar

Yup John, Jake, and Jay have been guilty of it.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-17-2009, 10:42 AM
That man was Deacon Jones, Claymore.

MadMax
03-17-2009, 10:44 AM
I never said that. I thought from a business standpoint it would be silly for them to make it. And as a fan, I didnt want to see them blown out.

I dont think losing in the plaoyoffs and getting used to the sting is/was a good Idea.

I would rather have the draft pick.

Clay this is not a personal attack.

But come on a draft pick?! That crap's for NBA fans, for chargers fans. I root for the Broncos. Every day. I want them to win at whatever they do. I want them to beat all the other teams in free agency, I want our players to have the best one liners when they get into arguments with other teams' players. Most importantly I want us to win games. I don't care if one more win means we miss out on football Jesus in the draft, because that one more win means that theres one more team's fan I can gloat to, one more week of positive ESPN analysis I can listen to, one more week that I can think the Broncos are the best team in football.

I'll take that over draft picks any day.

G_Money
03-17-2009, 10:44 AM
Sounds familiar

Yeah, he's got most of Cutler's weaknesses and few of his strengths.

Same laser-lock on one target, but without the crazy gun to actually get it there. Same need for head coach validation, but without the on-the-field confidence to balance it out.

It's why I'm having trouble seeing him as a full-time starter. "Hey Chris, I need you to go out there and manage the second half of this game for me" is different than "Hey Chris, it's all you buddy, go kill em."

But I haven't actually seen him on the field in years. Here's hoping he's a different QB now.

Let me rephrase: a BETTER QB now.

~G

Requiem / The Dagda
03-17-2009, 10:46 AM
I'd rather the draft pick too, Clay.

Northman
03-17-2009, 10:47 AM
I'll give him a shot since Jay doesnt appear to want to do the job. New scenery never hurt anybody so maybe he does well here. Guess we will find out soon enough.

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 10:48 AM
Yeah, he's got most of Cutler's weaknesses and few of his strengths.

Same laser-lock on one target, but without the crazy gun to actually get it there. Same need for head coach validation, but without the on-the-field confidence to balance it out.

It's why I'm having trouble seeing him as a full-time starter. "Hey Chris, I need you to go out there and manage the second half of this game for me" is different than "Hey Chris, it's all you buddy, go kill em."

But I haven't actually seen him on the field in years. Here's hoping he's a different QB now.

Let me rephrase: a BETTER QB now.



~G


I'll never pretend that Simms has Cutler's skill or talent, but again, I really dont think this version of the spread offense requires the most skilled or talented QB in the world.

Will Simms do well in it? I cant even begin to guess, but if Cassell can, then I cant doubt Simms could

claymore
03-17-2009, 11:01 AM
Clay this is not a personal attack.

But come on a draft pick?! That crap's for NBA fans, for chargers fans. I root for the Broncos. Every day. I want them to win at whatever they do. I want them to beat all the other teams in free agency, I want our players to have the best one liners when they get into arguments with other teams' players. Most importantly I want us to win games. I don't care if one more win means we miss out on football Jesus in the draft, because that one more win means that theres one more team's fan I can gloat to, one more week of positive ESPN analysis I can listen to, one more week that I can think the Broncos are the best team in football.

I'll take that over draft picks any day.
I completley see your point. But I dont want to luck into the playoffs because SD sucks as bad as we do. If we get in there I want us to earn it.

G_Money
03-17-2009, 11:05 AM
The NE offense definitely doesn't require a one-man-band at QB for success.

If Simms was gonna be successful, this should be the sort of offense that does it for him: very good OL, good set of weapons to throw to, spreads out the D to create bigger passing lanes, and in theory a Broncos running game that even at its worst can move the ball between the 20s at a good clip.

If he can't do it here, then he probably can't do it anywhere.

Of course, Shanahan's offense didn't require all of Cutler's gifts either (see the seasons put up by Griese and Plummer), and their final results didn't measure up to expectations. I just think Simms tops out at "adequate." So if we can get him to adequate play, that means it's on the other parts of the team (running game, special teams, defense) to pull more than their own share.

I dunno if we'll be equipped to do that in time for McDaniels to make the sort of results he'll need to keep his job, so IMO Simms is better off not being the last man standing in whatever QB competition we have.

~G

claymore
03-17-2009, 11:09 AM
The NE offense definitely doesn't require a one-man-band at QB for success.

If Simms was gonna be successful, this should be the sort of offense that does it for him: very good OL, good set of weapons to throw to, spreads out the D to create bigger passing lanes, and in theory a Broncos running game that even at its worst can move the ball between the 20s at a good clip.

If he can't do it here, then he probably can't do it anywhere.

Of course, Shanahan's offense didn't require all of Cutler's gifts either (see the seasons put up by Griese and Plummer), and their final results didn't measure up to expectations. I just think Simms tops out at "adequate." So if we can get him to adequate play, that means it's on the other parts of the team (running game, special teams, defense) to pull more than their own share.

I dunno if we'll be equipped to do that in time for McDaniels to make the sort of results he'll need to keep his job, so IMO Simms is better off not being the last man standing in whatever QB competition we have.

~G
Is our offensive line designed to do this, or are they capable from a size standpoint?

G_Money
03-17-2009, 11:18 AM
Our OL is no longer midgety. They're still a little small across the front 3 (Hamilton and Wiegmann, assuming he comes back, are not large men by OL standards) but if Lichtensteiger slides in for one of em then only one guy will be under 300 pounds.

They're not the old Cowboys line or anything, but our OL is big enough. And after watching Wiegmann maul Jenkins last year, it should be apparent that application of that weight is more important than actual weight.

If we were totally changing blocking schemes, I would be more concerned, but we kept Dennison. We're not gonna be trying to fit the square pegs of our OL unit into some other shaped hole from some other blocking scheme, which is a relief. And with all the young guys last year we weren't exactly going with the 100% ZBS. I don't expect whatever blocking changes McDaniels brings to monkey up the works, since he's purported to be a fan of the ZBS and our effectiveness with it anyway.

~G

claymore
03-17-2009, 11:23 AM
Our OL is no longer midgety. They're still a little small across the front 3 (Hamilton and Wiegmann, assuming he comes back, are not large men by OL standards) but if Lichtensteiger slides in for one of em then only one guy will be under 300 pounds.

They're not the old Cowboys line or anything, but our OL is big enough. And after watching Wiegmann maul Jenkins last year, it should be apparent that application of that weight is more important than actual weight.

If we were totally changing blocking schemes, I would be more concerned, but we kept Dennison. We're not gonna be trying to fit the square pegs of our OL unit into some other shaped hole from some other blocking scheme, which is a relief. And with all the young guys last year we weren't exactly going with the 100% ZBS. I don't expect whatever blocking changes McDaniels brings to monkey up the works, since he's purported to be a fan of the ZBS and our effectiveness with it anyway.

~G
Good I was worried about Clady for a minute. :D

tubby
03-17-2009, 11:57 AM
Simms is 7-8 as a starter. That's better then Jay.


:D

If Chris Simms is the starter next year I bet he wins more games than Matt Cassel.

Troll Boi

DallasChief
03-17-2009, 11:59 AM
If Chris Simms is the starter next year I bet he wins more games than Matt Cassel.

Troll Boi

click

Rex
03-17-2009, 12:34 PM
Oh dear.

JONtheBRONCO
03-17-2009, 02:13 PM
He won't be great, but he won't be god awful. We have a solid offensive line, young and talented - not to mention two of the best young tackle tandems in the league -- one of them a future perineal pro bowler.. An offensive system built around the spread, and we have the receiving core to make it successful - Royal being a Welker type, Marshall being a Moss, Jabar Gaffeney who knows the system and another reliable wide out in Stokes. Graham can do it all. Hillis can be the FB/RB/TE when we need him.

And not to mention a head coach who took in a QB who hasn't started a game since high school, and made him look pretty darn good.

Let's add some more defense via the draft... We'll be ight..