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Denver Native (Carol)
03-16-2009, 02:41 PM
Hopefully, this has not been posted yet, and I feel it deserves it's own thread, because I agree with Paige in placing much of the blame on Bowlen:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11921509

Jay Cutler blinked.

The seemingly-soon-to-be ex-Broncos quarterback pushed all in and demanded a trade on Sunday night in a Mile High-stakes game.

There is no winner.

Everybody loses.

And the Broncos are the worst for it. An organization that used to be one of the classiest and most successful in professional sports has displaced Dallas and overtaken Oakland as the most diss-informational, dysfunctional franchise in football.

After a weekend at Pigeon Valley, where the testosterone and tension were so thick you could cut it with a Popeil butter knife, the Broncos and Cutler were finished.

Coach Josh McDaniels wanted to get rid of Cutler two weeks ago. Cutler now wants to rid himself of McDaniels.

Who was the culprit in McJayGate — the coach, the quarterback, the agent, the owner?

Each of the foolish four has liability (and probably lie-ability), responsibility and accountability.

Start at the top (the owner) and end up at the bottom (an agent).

Pat Bowlen wanted control of his team again when he fired Mike Shanahan But he didn't take control, and the Broncos have raced completely out of control.

In his press conference on the last day of 2008, Bowlen said, "I run the show."

That day Bowlen said of Cutler, "Obviously, he is the man around here now."

Not any more.

And Bowlen is running a dog-and-pony show.

Bowlen told The Post's Mike Klis on Sunday afternoon: "I'm very disappointed. I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

"Disappointed" doesn't cover it, and "might lose" doesn't get it.

Bowlen was mad that Cutler didn't back his hiring of McDaniels and didn't answer his phone calls when McDaniels considered trading the quarterback to acquire Matt Cassel. Bowlen could have gotten on a plane to Nashville with his coach, or he could have ordered his quarterback to come to Denver. Instead, the owner became a role player, not the lead player, in the feud between McD and Jay-C.

In the end, Bowlen wasn't in on the Broncos Summit on Saturday, sources said, and appeared powerless to stop the billion-dollar franchise from blowing up in his face.

(This deteriorating affair has more leaks than a cheap sink.)

Bowlen should have brought McD and Jay-C into his office and ordered them to stay there, Road Warrior Thunderdome-like, until the feud was settled. If they didn't, he could have made a decision as difficult as the one to fire Shanahan — fire another coach or trade the player. The decision was made for Bowlen.

He has lost.

McDaniels created the original conflict by exploring the trade shortly after claiming publicly he was "excited" about coaching Cutler, had spent time with the quarterback going over the team's new playbook, then discussed a deal on the day the quarterback left town. The new coach then went into denial and has not once had the nerve to address the media and the fans — until late Sunday. His lack of experience, and his background in New England, and his slips are showing.

What does McDaniels do? He and Bowlen could try to keep Cutler in Denver, but that won't work. He will try to trade Cutler, but will that work? The Broncos won't get a quarterback of equal value, and they'll probably end up with a couple of draft choices — and Chris Simms, who hasn't thrown a pass in anger in two seasons, as the starting quarterback.

He has lost.

Cutler must share the blame. He did react immaturely to the firing of Shanahan and Jeremy Bates, the hiring of McDaniels and, of course, the trade. His prolonged snit was unbecoming. His refusal to return to Denver last week, then his Harpo act in the meeting on Saturday were characteristics of the bad and ugly types in the NFL. He will go somewhere else, but his future home likely won't be an upgrade.

He has lost.

Bus Cook, Cutler's agent, is the most evil player in the melodrama. The former "personal injury attorney" from Hattiesburg, Miss., added insult to injury by being a source for the trade rumors and other recent stories.

He served as the lightning rod for Cutler's fire and ire. His and Cutler's rigid stance could have been a ploy to get Cutler a renegotiated, extended, larger contract or the trade to another team.

Why wouldn't Cook's past representations of other high-profile NFL players make newspapers, websites and Broncos loyalists have reservations about his intentions? Didn't Brett Favre, Steve McNair, Randy Moss and other Cook clients have contractual issues, disputes and salaries that ended up with splintered teams and the players in other cities? The troublemaker, not peacemaker, was only interested in manipulating the event that became a national joke.

He has lost.

Josh, Jay, Pat and Bus got the Broncos into this mess. They couldn't pull the Broncos out of it.

They should have blinked together this morning. Instead, they can go blank in the night. Denver deserves better.

Woody Paige: 303-954-1095 or wpaige@denverpost.com

tomjonesrocks
03-16-2009, 03:46 PM
Agree with much of this--especially the commentary pointing out the astonishing reversal of what used to be a well run organization. The bloom is off the rose in Denver--that was a *fast* collapse.

Rome was defining this situation as "Lose/Lose" as well on his show today. I don't really agree. The Broncos certainly lose, but if Cutler is traded there's a good chance he'll both make more money and go somewhere where he'll win more.

Worst defense in the NFL is in Denver until proven otherwise. Never mind the HC in waaay over his head. The Jets are a definitively worse situation? The Vikings wouldn't be an upgrade for Cutler? How so? Detroit is the only potential destination for Cutler definitely worse than ours from the interested parties I've heard/read.

LRtagger
03-16-2009, 04:03 PM
Spot-on Woody.

TXBRONC
03-16-2009, 04:07 PM
Agree with much of this--especially the commentary pointing out the astonishing reversal of what used to be a well run organization. The bloom is off the rose in Denver--that was a *fast* collapse.

Rome was defining this situation as "Lose/Lose" as well on his show today. I don't really agree. The Broncos certainly lose, but if Cutler is traded there's a good chance he'll both make more money and go somewhere where he'll win more.

Worst defense in the NFL is in Denver until proven otherwise. Never mind the HC in waaay over his head. The Jets are a definitively worse situation? The Vikings wouldn't be an upgrade for Cutler? How so? Detroit is the only potential destination for Cutler definitely worse than ours from the interested parties I've heard/read.

While I believe that Cook is one of main reasons this thing has gone from bad to worse, I'm also disappointed that Jay can't see it and rein Cook in.

fcspikeit
03-16-2009, 04:36 PM
I'm glad Mr "I run the show and call the shots around here" finally got some blame in this mess.. Great job of running things Pat :rolleyes:

"Bowlen is running a dog-and-pony show." I couldn't agree more Woody :salute:

keithbishop
03-16-2009, 04:58 PM
The article nails it. Everyone involved is to blame.

I'd love to know why Bowlen hasn't stepped up. I suppose having McDaniels and Cutler settle things in the ring isn't covered on the insurance policy for Jay, but Bowlen needs to take the lead on handling the situation. Short of that, Bowlen, Xander, and McDaniels are responsible for getting us a new QB .......and career backups don't count.

G_Money
03-16-2009, 04:59 PM
While I believe that Cook is one of main reasons this thing has gone from bad to worse, I'm also disappointed that Jay can't see it and rein Cook in.

Yeah.

But he's known Cook longer than he's known anybody on the team. Or anybody running the team.

I think Cook is an instigator in this whole thing too, but Cutler trusts him. Cook is the only guy at the table who "knew him when" and the only guy who has said, "Don't worry kid, I got your back no matter what." Bowlen, Xanders, McDaniels...they've all gone out of their way NOT to say that.

Doesn't matter if we think Cook's lying and is just out for another big payday regardless of whether that payday is the ultimate factor that decides what is, in fact, in cutler's best interests.

On the "who can you trust?" scale, Cutler ranks known-me-since-college Cook higher than the brand-new sorta-GM, the brand-new coach, or the owner.

There's a reason that the key to any agent's success is in how much buy-in and trust he can glean from his clients.

~G

Denver Native (Carol)
03-16-2009, 05:01 PM
The article nails it. Everyone involved is to blame.

I'd love to know why Bowlen hasn't stepped up. I suppose having McDaniels and Cutler settle things in the ring isn't covered on the insurance policy for Jay, but Bowlen needs to take the lead on handling the situation. Short of that, Bowlen, Xander, and McDaniels are responsible for getting us a new QB .......and career backups don't count.

My opinion on why Bowlen hasn't stepped up - if the reports are correct that Jay did not return Bowlen's calls, did Bowlen's ego take over????

NightTrainLayne
03-16-2009, 05:04 PM
Yeah.

But he's known Cook longer than he's known anybody on the team. Or anybody running the team.

I think Cook is an instigator in this whole thing too, but Cutler trusts him. Cook is the only guy at the table who "knew him when" and the only guy who has said, "Don't worry kid, I got your back no matter what." Bowlen, Xanders, McDaniels...they've all gone out of their way NOT to say that.

Doesn't matter if we think Cook's lying and is just out for another big payday regardless of whether that payday is the ultimate factor that decides what is, in fact, in cutler's best interests.

On the "who can you trust?" scale, Cutler ranks known-me-since-college Cook higher than the brand-new sorta-GM, the brand-new coach, or the owner.

There's a reason that the key to any agent's success is in how much buy-in and trust he can glean from his clients.

~G

Well I've admired Pat Bowlen's organization since before Cutler was born. So as a fan, I'm sticking with Mr. Bowlen and the Broncos.

Pat Bowlen's leadership has made this club one of the most successful in the NFL. I'm not going to abandon him. I know that he has all of the fan's backs.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-16-2009, 05:10 PM
Yeah.

But he's known Cook longer than he's known anybody on the team. Or anybody running the team.

I think Cook is an instigator in this whole thing too, but Cutler trusts him. Cook is the only guy at the table who "knew him when" and the only guy who has said, "Don't worry kid, I got your back no matter what." Bowlen, Xanders, McDaniels...they've all gone out of their way NOT to say that.

Doesn't matter if we think Cook's lying and is just out for another big payday regardless of whether that payday is the ultimate factor that decides what is, in fact, in cutler's best interests.

On the "who can you trust?" scale, Cutler ranks known-me-since-college Cook higher than the brand-new sorta-GM, the brand-new coach, or the owner.

There's a reason that the key to any agent's success is in how much buy-in and trust he can glean from his clients.

~G

Good points, and I am sure that Jay feels that Cook is the only one who has "his back" in this situation.

G_Money
03-16-2009, 05:13 PM
You can have the fan's backs and still screw up, NTL. People make mistakes.

But I'm not following Cutler to some other team, or rooting for the Broncos to lose.

If this is the play, then I hope it's the right one.

I personally wouldn't want to go all-in on 8-9 offsuit, but if you feel like you have to, then be right.

Losing Cutler is not the high-percentage play, but it's still winnable. We'll just need to pull it off.

What I don't want to have to watch is a "mea culpa" speech from Bowlen in 2-3 years at the next head coach introduction while we're still fumbling around without an acceptable QB.

If it's not gonna be Jay, then it's not gonna be Jay. Make the right call on who it IS gonna be, then, and don't blame Jay if your choice is wrong.

~G

Medford Bronco
03-16-2009, 05:14 PM
You can have the fan's backs and still screw up, NTL. People make mistakes.

But I'm not following Cutler to some other team, or rooting for the Broncos to lose.

If this is the play, then I hope it's the right one.

I personally wouldn't want to go all-in on 8-9 offsuit, but if you feel like you have to, then be right.

Losing Cutler is not the high-percentage play, but it's still winnable. We'll just need to pull it off.

What I don't want to have to watch is a "mea culpa" speech from Bowlen in 2-3 years at the next head coach introduction while we're still fumbling around without an acceptable QB.

If it's not gonna be Jay, then it's not gonna be Jay. Make the right call on who it IS gonna be, then, and don't blame Jay if your choice is wrong.

~G

You are so rational, You need to coach this team. I am sure you would do a better job of communication than is being done right now.

frauschieze
03-16-2009, 05:18 PM
Well I've admired Pat Bowlen's organization since before Cutler was born. So as a fan, I'm sticking with Mr. Bowlen and the Broncos.

Pat Bowlen's leadership has made this club one of the most successful in the NFL. I'm not going to abandon him. I know that he has all of the fan's backs.

I find myself wondering if Bowlen doesn't want to admit he may have made a mistake with McDaniels.

NightTrainLayne
03-16-2009, 05:24 PM
You can have the fan's backs and still screw up, NTL. People make mistakes.

But I'm not following Cutler to some other team, or rooting for the Broncos to lose.

If this is the play, then I hope it's the right one.

I personally wouldn't want to go all-in on 8-9 offsuit, but if you feel like you have to, then be right.

Losing Cutler is not the high-percentage play, but it's still winnable. We'll just need to pull it off.

What I don't want to have to watch is a "mea culpa" speech from Bowlen in 2-3 years at the next head coach introduction while we're still fumbling around without an acceptable QB.

If it's not gonna be Jay, then it's not gonna be Jay. Make the right call on who it IS gonna be, then, and don't blame Jay if your choice is wrong.

~G

I can buy that. The key is people's intentions.

Bowlen's intentions all along have been to win Super-Bowls.

McDaniels: make the team better and win Championships. All he did was listen to a proposal in the interest of possibly bettering the team. .. and not accept it.

Xanders: Ditto

Jay? What's his intentions here? Go someplace else? More money? Pity party?

Cook? More money, more money, more money.

Who are the character here that are actively trying to make a mess? Who are the characters who are trying to improve the team?

Maybe McD made a mistake in how he handled this, or how he approached Cutler about it, but in the end his intention was solely to see if he could make the team better. In the final analysis he figured that the team was better with Cutler.

This isn't going all-in with 8-9 off-suit. Instead, it's taking a moment to figure out whether or not to call an all-in bet from a strong player while you are holding J-J. Sure you think about it, and hate folding an otherwise strong hand, but in the end you know your better off staying out of it. Thank God, in Poker your folded hands don't hold grudges against you.

What are Cutler's intentions? They seem less pure to me.

In the end, I think both parties are stuck with each other. I hope that at some point Cutler will be able to put this out of mind and perform on the field. If he is, and if we win some more games, the wound will heal.

NightTrainLayne
03-16-2009, 05:25 PM
I find myself wondering if Bowlen doesn't want to admit he may have made a mistake with McDaniels.

Pat Bowlen's been doing this long enough that he knows three-months in the off-season isn't enough time to make that decision.

I imagine he's wondering more why someone that he's paid $11 million to won't return his phone calls.

hotcarl
03-16-2009, 05:26 PM
yeah i read that

close thread

Denver Native (Carol)
03-16-2009, 05:28 PM
I find myself wondering if Bowlen doesn't want to admit he may have made a mistake with McDaniels.

I agree; however, even if Bowlen does not want to publically admit it, can he not have a face to face sit down with McD, and state what will be, and what will not be? Also, as was stated once again by Scott and Al on their program today, Denver is unique - i.e. the fans WANT to hear from the Coach, and because, since that is the way it has been since day 1 with the Broncos, McD needs to show his face on tv, do interviews, etc. And even is McD does not know the Denver fans way, Bowlen certainly does.

frauschieze
03-16-2009, 05:31 PM
Pat Bowlen's been doing this long enough that he knows three-months in the off-season isn't enough time to make that decision.

I imagine he's wondering more why someone that he's paid $11 million to won't return his phone calls.

Oh, I'm sure he's more than a little irked by that. I'd smack Cutler open handed for that dumb ass move if I could.

But for someone who is in control, he's been noticeably absent most of this whole ordeal while the franchise spirals out of control. It's not the image he's created for this team over the years and it strikes me as odd. I just have this feeling he's going to let McD sink or swim as much as possible on his own.

Nothing more than conjecture. But I find knowing the prior personality's tendencies more interesting than the he said/she said crap.

G_Money
03-16-2009, 05:46 PM
Matt Millen only ever wanted to make Detroit better.

At some point, your ABILITY to do that means more than your desire to do it.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, right?

I agree with you that McDaniels, Bowlen and Xanders have no reason to want to shoot themselves in the foot. It's not their intention to do so.

But they need to learn to aim better, fast, or there will be more bullets flying at toes.

I don't know what Jay's motives are. At this point, I'm taking him at his word that all he's looking for is a backing from the coach that he doesn't feel like he's getting, and the loner he goes without it the more strenuous he wants the backing to be. Maybe he's lying about that. Maybe Cook is Wormtonguing his way through the meetings and conversations and poisoning the whole deal.

But in 3 years being shady hasn't been a part of Cutler's public persona, so he's given me no reason to chuck his POV on things as being specious. This is not Marshall and his 23 issues with police.

If it comes out later that Cutler just wanted the earlier payday, and badmouths us in the press, and fights with his next head coach, et al, fine. Right now we don't have proper perspective on this debate.

On the Reeves vs. Elway argument, history proved Elway right. Most of us thought so at the time, but there was a significant part of Denver - none of whom will step forward now - who thought Elway should have gone and cheered the Maddox drafting.

That's only natural. In a debate, there will be people on both sides, or else it kinda isn't a debate. But it'll be proven on the field and not in the chat room - if we can even get to the regular season without killing each other at this point.

It still looks like McDaniels has had his chances to win this particular debate with Cutler while still keeping Jay on the team, and he hasn't done it.

I know Josh wants to win here. So however this particular argument winds up I hope he wins the rest.

If you had told me that in order to win a championship we'd have to trade Elway, I'd have done it. And as we've already established, Cutler is not Elway.

As freckle-boy says, "You PLAY to WIN the GAME." For the next couple years, it's your team, McDaniels. You'd better win doing it your way, because you're removing all tolerance for losing at this point.

An 8-8 season with our schedule next year is decent with or without Cutler. A winning season would be very good for a new staff and this many new players.

But with that tough schedule comes more potential pitfalls.

It would be very easy to go 4-12 next year with a couple bad breaks, and that would be tough even with Cutler as a stalwart McDaniels backer. We're not accustomed to 4-12 around here.

But if that were "because" Jay was "driven off?"

Broncos fans don't understand losing seasons. They might not be used to playoff wins any more either, but contention is guaranteed.

McDaniels is losing his buffer as he loses Cutler. Most first-year coaching records "don't count" but as you see the number of first-time coaches who are lighting it up, that forgiveness level is thinning.

Josh's will be gone all together, IMO. And no debate about injuries or schedule or new system will fight down the naysayers, now that The Cutler Thing has come out in full bloom.

So win, kid. It's one of your only plays, now.

~G

keithbishop
03-16-2009, 05:53 PM
My opinion on why Bowlen hasn't stepped up - if the reports are correct that Jay did not return Bowlen's calls, did Bowlen's ego take over????

Probably, but Bowlen has to be the adult in this situation. Yeah, it's pathetic.

Dean
03-16-2009, 07:05 PM
Probably, but Bowlen has to be the adult in this situation. Yeah, it's pathetic.

All the time that Shanahan was here Bowlen was content to show up at his office, go to the games, and little more. He was happy.

He decided to fire Mike and the Goodmans and went back to letting someone else run the team. Now, he needs to step forward and do what he said. He needs to make decissions. . .but he's not comfortable doing that.

IMO, he wants the title and recognition but not the job.

TXBRONC
03-16-2009, 07:17 PM
You are so rational, You need to coach this team. I am sure you would do a better job of communication than is being done right now.

This situation blows.

NameUsedBefore
03-16-2009, 07:49 PM
McDaniels, Cutler, Bowlen. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIomipDU0B8)

NightTrainLayne
03-16-2009, 08:21 PM
Matt Millen only ever wanted to make Detroit better.

At some point, your ABILITY to do that means more than your desire to do it.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, right?

I agree with you that McDaniels, Bowlen and Xanders have no reason to want to shoot themselves in the foot. It's not their intention to do so.

But they need to learn to aim better, fast, or there will be more bullets flying at toes.

I don't know what Jay's motives are. At this point, I'm taking him at his word that all he's looking for is a backing from the coach that he doesn't feel like he's getting, and the loner he goes without it the more strenuous he wants the backing to be. Maybe he's lying about that. Maybe Cook is Wormtonguing his way through the meetings and conversations and poisoning the whole deal.

But in 3 years being shady hasn't been a part of Cutler's public persona, so he's given me no reason to chuck his POV on things as being specious. This is not Marshall and his 23 issues with police.

If it comes out later that Cutler just wanted the earlier payday, and badmouths us in the press, and fights with his next head coach, et al, fine. Right now we don't have proper perspective on this debate.

On the Reeves vs. Elway argument, history proved Elway right. Most of us thought so at the time, but there was a significant part of Denver - none of whom will step forward now - who thought Elway should have gone and cheered the Maddox drafting.

That's only natural. In a debate, there will be people on both sides, or else it kinda isn't a debate. But it'll be proven on the field and not in the chat room - if we can even get to the regular season without killing each other at this point.

It still looks like McDaniels has had his chances to win this particular debate with Cutler while still keeping Jay on the team, and he hasn't done it.

I know Josh wants to win here. So however this particular argument winds up I hope he wins the rest.

If you had told me that in order to win a championship we'd have to trade Elway, I'd have done it. And as we've already established, Cutler is not Elway.

As freckle-boy says, "You PLAY to WIN the GAME." For the next couple years, it's your team, McDaniels. You'd better win doing it your way, because you're removing all tolerance for losing at this point.

An 8-8 season with our schedule next year is decent with or without Cutler. A winning season would be very good for a new staff and this many new players.

But with that tough schedule comes more potential pitfalls.

It would be very easy to go 4-12 next year with a couple bad breaks, and that would be tough even with Cutler as a stalwart McDaniels backer. We're not accustomed to 4-12 around here.

But if that were "because" Jay was "driven off?"

Broncos fans don't understand losing seasons. They might not be used to playoff wins any more either, but contention is guaranteed.

McDaniels is losing his buffer as he loses Cutler. Most first-year coaching records "don't count" but as you see the number of first-time coaches who are lighting it up, that forgiveness level is thinning.

Josh's will be gone all together, IMO. And no debate about injuries or schedule or new system will fight down the naysayers, now that The Cutler Thing has come out in full bloom.

So win, kid. It's one of your only plays, now.

~G

We agree here more than we disagree G. Obviously, intentions by themselves don't get the job done.

But my response would be, that in a situation where the only apparent real harm is some hurt feelings that intentions are the primary thing to look at. No real harm was done. Cutler wasn't traded afterall, he just got his feelings hurt. In that case, comparing the FO's and Cutler's intentions makes all the difference.