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View Full Version : So, where do we go from here?



dogfish
03-16-2009, 04:07 AM
Obviously it feels like the other shoe has dropped, but in reality that won't happen until Cutler is actually traded. The next few months are quite likely to shape the future of this franchise for years to come, so I hope to hell that the guys making the decisions don't do anything rash. Take your time, think it over! Make sure that you're making the absolute best that you can out of an admittedly bad situation. At this point, it really doesn't matter all that much how it started-- what matters now is how it gets resolved.

If it really comes down to hardball, the franchise holds most of the cards. Cutler and his agent can make any demands they want, but the CBA gives teams the upper hand in these types of situations. Certainly, Cutler does have some leverage-- the team needs him a lot more than he needs them. Teams will line up to pay big for his services, but Denver's chances of finding a replacement of equal quality for the upcoming season are about as slim as Victoria Beckham on a meth binge. On the other hand, Jay's still under contract. If he starts sitting out mandatory activities, the fines can add up to awfully big numbers in very short order-- and even millionaire athletes generally blink before letting hundreds of thousands of dollars go flying out of their bank account. Of course he can show up and half-ass it, but in the end that's probably going to hurt him more than the team. It can lead to more fines and/or an unpaid suspension, and it's the one thing he can do to really diminish his long term earning potential.

Most likely, the worst that he'll do is sit out a week or two, and then show up and do what he has to. He may not exactly go the extra mile watching film in his spare time, but he's bright enough to know that his trade value is going to be higher if he performs well. But the resultant media circus will inevitably be a big distraction, and this type of thing can fragment a locker room. Just ask the Eagles or the Cowboys. It may well also impact our ability to sign free agents in the coming years, or retain our own young talent once their deals are up. And it's pretty damn tough to install a complicated new offense if your starting quarterback isn't on board over the offseason. Also, how much support does Jay have from his teammates, and how is this going to affect McDaniels' ability to command their respect? Scheffler isn't coming to Monday's meeting either-- what if other guys follow suit? In the end, Jay can't literally force his way out of town, but if things get ugly enough it can reach the point where the organization feels that it's better to cut its losses and move on.

Some reactionary fans want the team to suspend or bench Cutler, but in more rational circles that's known as cutting off your head to spite your face. Fans can react emotionally and ask the team to "teach him a lesson," but even drunks in fur coats don't run multi-million dollar businesses that way. Only Al Davis pulls that kind of shit. Not happening. It's easy for people to get all butthurt and say "screw it, he wants a trade then get him the hell out of here," but it's pretty ironic that those who are calling him a crybaby are the same ones that are acting like a kid who had his toy taken away. Those types of emotional reactions are rarely a sound basis for business decisions. Remember, some of you have been saying that Jay needs to remember that it's a business, and stop getting his feelings hurt. Funny how quickly things change when the shoe is on the other foot!

So far Xanders and McDaniels have stuck to their position of "we're not trading him," at least publicly, but Bowlen's comments about "losing our quarterback" would seem to suggest that that is actually far from being set in stone. And at this point, you obviously do have to listen to offers and see what's out there. But that doesn't mean that you have to accept any of them. Cutler said that he intends to report when mandatory team activities start, and there are still six weeks or so until the draft. There's no rush to go out and do something hasty. Give it a few weeks to cool off, consider your options. . . and in the meantime, unless you get an offer that you honestly think makes this a better team than having Cutler, you do absolutely everything in your power to reconcile your differences and get the guy back on board with being a Bronco!

It wouldn't kill Doogie to humble his pride a little bit and make an apology. No one's saying that you can't or shouldn't coach the guy up, but there's a time and a place, and you need to make sure that he's even going to be here before you bother. And if you're determined to show that you can be just as stubborn and prove that being the coach gives you the ability to win a pissing match, then you damn well better be sure that you can do as well without Cutler as you can with him, because otherwise you're letting pride and faith in your "system" come before the best interests of your team. And that kind of thing generally gets head coaches fired.

So Doogie and Xanders need to think long and hard before they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Don't throw the bridge in the river before you're positive that it's been irreparably burned. This isn't the time for a knee-jerk reaction. They need to ask themselves whether some loud and very public immaturity outweighs what this immensely talented young player gives the team on the field. Cutler has always displayed an excellent work ethic up to this point-- if somebody doesn't completely blow you away with an offer, stick it out and rely on the fact that more likely than not he's eventually going to come around and work hard even if he'd rather be somewhere else. He and Doogie don't necessarily have to like each other to work together effectively. Ditka couldn't stand Buddy Ryan.

Given the stakes involved, being patient and waiting it out until all possible alternatives are exhausted seems like the most prudent aproach. Of course, NOTHING about what's gone on so far in this friggin' cluster**** has seemed even the faintest bit rational, so I'm not going to get my hopes up too far. . .

Kapaibro
03-16-2009, 04:16 AM
I vote we concentrate on baseball, and drink lots of alcohol

Den21vsBal19
03-16-2009, 04:20 AM
About 4 years ago, Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard said after the Champions League final that he was ready to sign a contract for life...............

Two months later, after not getting any reply for the club, and rumours of a £30mil transfer to Chelsea, he did the unthinkable and handed in a written transfer request...................fans were up in arms, talkshows & message boards flooded, his jersey was even burnt on the gates at Liverpool's Anfield stadium...............

4 years down the line, he's well on his way to establishing himself as the club's GOAT......................

What I'm saying, I guess, is we should maybe take a step back, & a deep breath, and see what happens, cause you never know how these things are going to turn out..................

Den21vsBal19
03-16-2009, 04:20 AM
I vote we concentrate on baseball, and drink lots of alcohol
I can agree with the alcohol part ;)

frenchfan
03-16-2009, 04:43 AM
About 4 years ago, Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard said after the Champions League final that he was ready to sign a contract for life...............

Two months later, after not getting any reply for the club, and rumours of a £30mil transfer to Chelsea, he did the unthinkable and handed in a written transfer request...................fans were up in arms, talkshows & message boards flooded, his jersey was even burnt on the gates at Liverpool's Anfield stadium...............

4 years down the line, he's well on his way to establishing himself as the club's GOAT......................

What I'm saying, I guess, is we should maybe take a step back, & a deep breath, and see what happens, cause you never know how these things are going to turn out..................So true Den...

Steven G is really Reds' heart... I couldn't believe this when it happened... Hopefully for you, he stayed at "Home". Personnaly, I'd had loved to see him with Lyon ;) :D

fcspikeit
03-16-2009, 07:32 AM
Obviously it feels like the other shoe has dropped, but in reality that won't happen until Cutler is actually traded. The next few months are quite likely to shape the future of this franchise for years to come, so I hope to hell that the guys making the decisions don't do anything rash. Take your time, think it over! Make sure that you're making the absolute best that you can out of an admittedly bad situation. At this point, it really doesn't matter all that much how it started-- what matters now is how it gets resolved.

If it really comes down to hardball, the franchise holds most of the cards. Cutler and his agent can make any demands they want, but the CBA gives teams the upper hand in these types of situations. Certainly, Cutler does have some leverage-- the team needs him a lot more than he needs them. Teams will line up to pay big for his services, but Denver's chances of finding a replacement of equal quality for the upcoming season are about as slim as Victoria Beckham on a meth binge. On the other hand, Jay's still under contract. If he starts sitting out mandatory activities, the fines can add up to awfully big numbers in very short order-- and even millionaire athletes generally blink before letting hundreds of thousands of dollars go flying out of their bank account. Of course he can show up and half-ass it, but in the end that's probably going to hurt him more than the team. It can lead to more fines and/or an unpaid suspension, and it's the one thing he can do to really diminish his long term earning potential.

Most likely, the worst that he'll do is sit out a week or two, and then show up and do what he has to. He may not exactly go the extra mile watching film in his spare time, but he's bright enough to know that his trade value is going to be higher if he performs well. But the resultant media circus will inevitably be a big distraction, and this type of thing can fragment a locker room. Just ask the Eagles or the Cowboys. It may well also impact our ability to sign free agents in the coming years, or retain our own young talent once their deals are up. And it's pretty damn tough to install a complicated new offense if your starting quarterback isn't on board over the offseason. Also, how much support does Jay have from his teammates, and how is this going to affect McDaniels' ability to command their respect? Scheffler isn't coming to Monday's meeting either-- what if other guys follow suit? In the end, Jay can't literally force his way out of town, but if things get ugly enough it can reach the point where the organization feels that it's better to cut its losses and move on.

Some reactionary fans want the team to suspend or bench Cutler, but in more rational circles that's known as cutting off your head to spite your face. Fans can react emotionally and ask the team to "teach him a lesson," but even drunks in fur coats don't run multi-million dollar businesses that way. Only Al Davis pulls that kind of shit. Not happening. It's easy for people to get all butthurt and say "screw it, he wants a trade then get him the hell out of here," but it's pretty ironic that those who are calling him a crybaby are the same ones that are acting like a kid who had his toy taken away. Those types of emotional reactions are rarely a sound basis for business decisions. Remember, some of you have been saying that Jay needs to remember that it's a business, and stop getting his feelings hurt. Funny how quickly things change when the shoe is on the other foot!

So far Xanders and McDaniels have stuck to their position of "we're not trading him," at least publicly, but Bowlen's comments about "losing our quarterback" would seem to suggest that that is actually far from being set in stone. And at this point, you obviously do have to listen to offers and see what's out there. But that doesn't mean that you have to accept any of them. Cutler said that he intends to report when mandatory team activities start, and there are still six weeks or so until the draft. There's no rush to go out and do something hasty. Give it a few weeks to cool off, consider your options. . . and in the meantime, unless you get an offer that you honestly think makes this a better team than having Cutler, you do absolutely everything in your power to reconcile your differences and get the guy back on board with being a Bronco!

It wouldn't kill Doogie to humble his pride a little bit and make an apology. No one's saying that you can't or shouldn't coach the guy up, but there's a time and a place, and you need to make sure that he's even going to be here before you bother. And if you're determined to show that you can be just as stubborn and prove that being the coach gives you the ability to win a pissing match, then you damn well better be sure that you can do as well without Cutler as you can with him, because otherwise you're letting pride and faith in your "system" come before the best interests of your team. And that kind of thing generally gets head coaches fired.

So Doogie and Xanders need to think long and hard before they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Don't throw the bridge in the river before you're positive that it's been irreparably burned. This isn't the time for a knee-jerk reaction. They need to ask themselves whether some loud and very public immaturity outweighs what this immensely talented young player gives the team on the field. Cutler has always displayed an excellent work ethic up to this point-- if somebody doesn't completely blow you away with an offer, stick it out and rely on the fact that more likely than not he's eventually going to come around and work hard even if he'd rather be somewhere else. He and Doogie don't necessarily have to like each other to work together effectively. Ditka couldn't stand Buddy Ryan.

Given the stakes involved, being patient and waiting it out until all possible alternatives are exhausted seems like the most prudent aproach. Of course, NOTHING about what's gone on so far in this friggin' cluster**** has seemed even the faintest bit rational, so I'm not going to get my hopes up too far. . .

If Cutler and Cook are right, McDaniels doesn't want to force Cutler to stay and play. If they really wanted to do that Jay would be in Denver right now getting ready for the first team meeting..

They only reason he isn't there is because McKid doesn't want him there..

That being said, McKid will trade Cutler and fast while he still has a little fan support in doing so.

Cutler said when asked if he would show up on Monday "As coach said, he needs every eye in the meeting room to be on him and not me."

Sounds like he really wanted Jay at that meeting doesn't it? Owe by the way, McDaniels never actually said he wanted Cutler to come.. Think about it.

broncofaninfla
03-16-2009, 08:40 AM
Good read Dog, thanks.

Shazam!
03-16-2009, 08:44 AM
Please find something FCS, a Link that McD said he dpesn't want Cutler there today. Thanks.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-16-2009, 08:46 AM
I didn't read all that because I'm lazy and eating breakfast, but I say we trade half-health Jay Cutler to the Lions for some draft picks. Detroit needs something to boost employment.

BigDaddyBronco
03-16-2009, 08:56 AM
I didn't read all that because I'm lazy and eating breakfast, but I say we trade half-health Jay Cutler to the Lions for some draft picks. Detroit needs something to boost employment.

Just not the #1 overall pick. Not worth it this year. Why overpay for a LB.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-16-2009, 09:02 AM
Just not the #1 overall pick. Not worth it this year. Why overpay for a LB.

What do you mean, Linebacker? I hear we're taking a good hard look at Benjamin Alexander, QB from Andersonville Community College. I hear they like his "moxie."

BigDaddyBronco
03-16-2009, 09:12 AM
What do you mean, Linebacker? I hear we're taking a good hard look at Benjamin Alexander, QB from Andersonville Community College. I hear they like his "moxie."

He could be the second coming of Matt Cassell.

Dr Velcro
03-16-2009, 09:12 AM
When you guys pulled Cutler off the bench, he didn't have this kind of attitude. He was grateful to even be playing.

The more he humbles himself, the better he will look to other teams, his fans & Pat Bowlen.

Like I've said before, wait until you can see the changes in action before making any judgements. You never know, it might just be what you guys need.

nthngd2say
03-16-2009, 09:14 AM
I guess I still have some hope the situation can be resolved based on the following quotes:

McDaniels and Cutler agreed on at least one element of the controversy, knocking down a Sunday report on NFL Network that the coach had criticized the quarterback's play in 2008.

"That just isn't true," McDaniels said. "Not a word has been said about that."
Cutler added: "Josh has never said anything negative to me about my play or anything else, for that matter."

McDaniels admitted that the team got involved in trade discussions for Cassel, who instead was dealt to the Kansas City Chiefs. However, he said any perception Cutler felt that the team could still trade him was misleading.

"That's what we have communicated ever since the deal with Cassel didn't happen," McDaniels said. "Other teams have called but we're not interested in getting draft picks for Jay. I never made a statement [Saturday] that 'you can be traded at any time.' They asked a question and I told them it was the time of year when people inquire about your team. Your job, as a head coach and general manager, is to listen and not bypass any opportunity to help your team improve. I think most people [in the NFL] feel the same way. You make smart, educated decisions that are best for your football team."

"I would like to talk to Jay before we go on and start to discuss some other type of alternative," McDaniels said Sunday night. "In the last couple weeks, we've been all about trying to communicate and resolve his unhappiness with what happened — which we understand — and that's been our direction."

Yet Cook admitted that when he called Xanders to request a trade on Saturday night, the team's general manager said it wasn't going to happen and that "Jay should show up Monday."

Cutler said: "You know, even after the meeting, I hung around town, kind of expecting him to call me and say, 'Hey, let's just me and you get away and have lunch or a cup of coffee' and mend things, but that didn't happen. So, I get it, really, it's a business. I'm disappointed because I love being a Bronco but I think it's run its course."

I can't find the quote but Cutler also said he will attend any mandatory camps and training camp if he is not traded.

I think both sides have shown they have interest in resolving the issue and no statements have seemed to me as closing the door on a resolution. I think its clear the Broncos realize they won't get enough value trading Cutler and hopefully they'll figure out this mess. I think both the Broncos organization and Cutler could have said/done several things differently. Hopefully they are coming to that realization and the situation isn't beyond repair

omac
03-17-2009, 09:47 AM
Great post, dogfish, on so many levels. :salute:

McDaniels is looking more and more like Petrino, who was also more concerned with showing his players who the boss was, than actually caring about his players.

Here's an interesting-in-hindsight article about Tom Coughlin in 2007, before the season started ... before they won the superbowl.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/sports/football/02giants.html?pagewanted=all

"Coughlin’s Not Quite Mr. Nice Guy, but Nicer - New York Times"

In it, though Coughlin has a tough guy image, he realized it was important to him to be nicer to his players, and he made great efforts to connect with his players.

Some tidbits ....

“I may be a dinosaur, but I can change,” he said recently in his Giants Stadium office in East Rutherford, N.J.

.......

For 13 years, since becoming an N.F.L. head coach with the Jacksonville Jaguars, Coughlin has been widely portrayed as a caricature of smoldering intensity and unbending ideology: a fiery, rule-happy tyrant who was most content when those around him were uneasy. (sound familiar? :D )

“I, quite frankly, got a long way with that one for a long time,” Coughlin said. “But you know what? That’s not working so well right now. So are you smart enough, even though you’ve got a lot of years behind you, to change? To tweak it a little bit? And hopefully I am.”

....

“It’s about trying to succeed in this business,” Coughlin said. “And if I’m putting my team and my organization in a better position to achieve and to win and to be looked at in a more positive way, then so be it.”

....

I remember when watching a Giants game early in the season how the sportscasters were saying he took a friendlier approach with his players, and used Strahan as an intermediary for player concerns.

And look what that got them ... a superbowl trophy. McDaniels can learn a lot if he pays attention; so could Cutler.

omac
03-17-2009, 10:02 AM
I guess I still have some hope the situation can be resolved based on the following quotes:

McDaniels and Cutler agreed on at least one element of the controversy, knocking down a Sunday report on NFL Network that the coach had criticized the quarterback's play in 2008.

"That just isn't true," McDaniels said. "Not a word has been said about that."
Cutler added: "Josh has never said anything negative to me about my play or anything else, for that matter."

McDaniels admitted that the team got involved in trade discussions for Cassel, who instead was dealt to the Kansas City Chiefs. However, he said any perception Cutler felt that the team could still trade him was misleading.

"That's what we have communicated ever since the deal with Cassel didn't happen," McDaniels said. "Other teams have called but we're not interested in getting draft picks for Jay. I never made a statement [Saturday] that 'you can be traded at any time.' They asked a question and I told them it was the time of year when people inquire about your team. Your job, as a head coach and general manager, is to listen and not bypass any opportunity to help your team improve. I think most people [in the NFL] feel the same way. You make smart, educated decisions that are best for your football team."

"I would like to talk to Jay before we go on and start to discuss some other type of alternative," McDaniels said Sunday night. "In the last couple weeks, we've been all about trying to communicate and resolve his unhappiness with what happened — which we understand — and that's been our direction."

Yet Cook admitted that when he called Xanders to request a trade on Saturday night, the team's general manager said it wasn't going to happen and that "Jay should show up Monday."

Cutler said: "You know, even after the meeting, I hung around town, kind of expecting him to call me and say, 'Hey, let's just me and you get away and have lunch or a cup of coffee' and mend things, but that didn't happen. So, I get it, really, it's a business. I'm disappointed because I love being a Bronco but I think it's run its course."

I can't find the quote but Cutler also said he will attend any mandatory camps and training camp if he is not traded.

I think both sides have shown they have interest in resolving the issue and no statements have seemed to me as closing the door on a resolution. I think its clear the Broncos realize they won't get enough value trading Cutler and hopefully they'll figure out this mess. I think both the Broncos organization and Cutler could have said/done several things differently. Hopefully they are coming to that realization and the situation isn't beyond repair

I like your optimism, but the way things have gone down, I don't think Cutler will be a Bronco for long. Cutler doesn't trust McDaniels and believes that in their face to face meeting that all McDaniels wanted to do was show Cutler who was the boss, not mend the relationship. McDaniels doesn't believe a coach has to justify his actions to a player, and a player should just blindly follow and get in line.

Cutler reactions obviously couldn't have helped the situation, but McDaniels not admitting any fault for the way he's handled things even as late as their last meeting, shows a lot of arrogance. Neither have shown great wisdom, but it's one thing for a player to do something stupid, but a whole different matter when it's your head coach who's let the situation get out of hand ... a situation he inadvertently created himself.

McDaniels message seems clear enough; he'll get whoever he wants, and trade or cut whoever he wants. Everyone is expendable, and he's the boss. Cutler's message is he doesn't want to play for this boss.

MadMax
03-17-2009, 10:33 AM
I really don't think that McDaniels' was telling Cutler he could be traded at any time. I guarantee that it was more along the line of we are not going to trade you, but no one is untradeable. I as a fan expect that, no player should be elevated above the team. As to what to do now it looks like our only choice is to give him the Chad Johnson treatment. Unfortunately for Cutler he's under contract for too long and he's too valuable to get what he is worth in trade.

A lot of people have said "Just give Cutler what he wants" but I don't understand what that is at this point. It obviously isn't a meeting, maybe it's more money but if that's the case I don't feel comfortable rewarding someone for dragging my team through the mud for a month. I love Cutler as much as all his other fans, but how long does he think McDaniels' should be punished for trying to trade him. Maybe Cutler doesn't realize it but his behavior has and continues to hurt the team.

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 10:36 AM
This is all a big miscommunication. McD cant properly explain himself to Jay and Jay cant understand McD's interpretation.

Grover
03-17-2009, 10:37 AM
In my opinion, McDaniels is exhibiting classic mistakes of a young person put in a managerial position prematurely.

Trying too hard to force your own personality and goals.
Not listening to/valuing existing employees because they may see your faults.
Attempting to "fix" everything all at once without an order of priority or a contingency plan if things don't go the way you first expect.

roomemp
03-17-2009, 10:46 AM
In my opinion, McDaniels is exhibiting classic mistakes of a young person put in a managerial position prematurely.

Trying too hard to force your own personality and goals.
Not listening to/valuing existing employees because they may see your faults.
Attempting to "fix" everything all at once without an order of priority or a contingency plan if things don't go the way you first expect.

Where else can you find a job that pays a minimum of 250 thousand? The NFL is not the real world when it comes to employer employee relationships

MadMax
03-17-2009, 10:57 AM
In my opinion, McDaniels is exhibiting classic mistakes of a young person put in a managerial position prematurely.

Trying too hard to force your own personality and goals.
Not listening to/valuing existing employees because they may see your faults.
Attempting to "fix" everything all at once without an order of priority or a contingency plan if things don't go the way you first expect.

You could be right, but it's not like we didn't expect him to have some growing pains. We hired him because we thought in spite of his managerial inexperience his knowledge of the game would carry him.

I guess what angers me the most about all this is how shortsighted Jay is being. He has to understand that as hard as it might be to work with McD, as bad a job he thinks he's doing, McD only has three years. Jay could be the QB here for life if he wanted it, so put on a smile for the media play nice and if McD is as bad as you think look forward to meeting your new head coach in three years.

omac
03-17-2009, 12:16 PM
You could be right, but it's not like we didn't expect him to have some growing pains. We hired him because we thought in spite of his managerial inexperience his knowledge of the game would carry him.

I guess what angers me the most about all this is how shortsighted Jay is being. He has to understand that as hard as it might be to work with McD, as bad a job he thinks he's doing, McD only has three years. Jay could be the QB here for life if he wanted it, so put on a smile for the media play nice and if McD is as bad as you think look forward to meeting your new head coach in three years.

What was reported was that Bowlen was so taken by McDaniels' maturity and communication skills. If Bowlen knew the PR nightmare he'd have to face this early in McDaniels tenure, and that priority one would be to trade the franchise QB for his former backup QB, I doubt he'd have hired him.

I don't think Jay is being short-sighted, though. I just don't think he wants to give McDaniels an opportunity to drag him down. He doesn't trust him.

Watch the NFL network video where they comment about what's happened. They all basically agree that trust is of paramount importance in a coach-QB relationship, and that McDaniels violated that trust by being dishonest with Jay. How can they now trust that neither won't try to bring the other down? As an extreme example, Martz rigged the QB competition in SF in order to elevate his boy, O'Sullivan, over Hill.

Like the analysts in the video said, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

underrated29
03-17-2009, 12:31 PM
This is all a big miscommunication. McD cant properly explain himself to Jay and Jay cant understand McD's interpretation.



Im with you. I think everyone has the right intentions. And this could easily get blown under the rug. But Mcd cant clearly get his point across to jay. Jay cant understand what Mcd is saying.

I think they are both on the same path, just not the same wavelength.

Kinda like me with computers. I know what i want my computer to do. I know it is capable of doing it. I just have a hard time telling it what i want it to do, and therefore i really suck at computers. The comp. and I would work well if i could just get my point across accurately and clearly.

Grover
03-17-2009, 12:41 PM
We hired him because we thought in spite of his managerial inexperience his knowledge of the game would carry him.

Yes I agree. Bowlen knew he was hiring a young man with no head coaching experience previously. McDaniels "plan" for the organization and his enthusiasm seems to be what got him hired.


I guess what angers me the most about all this is how shortsighted Jay is being.

I also agree that Jay is being shortsighted, but moreso with respect to his future as a Denver Bronco. But Jay is going to be making millions of dollars no matter where he plays. His agent will see to that with Jay's talent level.

Jay seems to have decided that he doesn't like his new coach (or at least doesn't like the way he communicates), and wants to play elsewhere. Jay will need to apply himself and learn a new system whether he plays in Denver or some other city. So to me, I think it really doesn't matter to Jay whether he plays here or somewhere else. We're rebuilding obviously, he's got no family ties in Denver, and maybe he's wanting to follow the money in some other city.

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 12:43 PM
Im with you. I think everyone has the right intentions. And this could easily get blown under the rug. But Mcd cant clearly get his point across to jay. Jay cant understand what Mcd is saying.

I think they are both on the same path, just not the same wavelength.

Kinda like me with computers. I know what i want my computer to do. I know it is capable of doing it. I just have a hard time telling it what i want it to do, and therefore i really suck at computers. The comp. and I would work well if i could just get my point across accurately and clearly.

I have the same problem with women. I try to explain to them that I'm in love with them...for a few hours and they usually just dont understand the concept.

But in all seriousness, who hasnt said something to another person only to have them blow it out of proportion and maybe things get heated. But eventually you can sit down and further explain things. I think if Jay and Josh were able to do this one on one, it couls be handled.

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 12:44 PM
What was reported was that Bowlen was so taken by McDaniels' maturity and communication skills. If Bowlen knew the PR nightmare he'd have to face this early in McDaniels tenure, and that priority one would be to trade the franchise QB for his former backup QB, I doubt he'd have hired him.

I don't think Jay is being short-sighted, though. I just don't think he wants to give McDaniels an opportunity to drag him down. He doesn't trust him.

Watch the NFL network video where they comment about what's happened. They all basically agree that trust is of paramount importance in a coach-QB relationship, and that McDaniels violated that trust by being dishonest with Jay. How can they now trust that neither won't try to bring the other down? As an extreme example, Martz rigged the QB competition in SF in order to elevate his boy, O'Sullivan, over Hill.

Like the analysts in the video said, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

All assumption and speculation

omac
03-17-2009, 12:57 PM
All assumption and speculation

Except the part where Bowlen said he was impressed by McDaniels maturity and communication skills in his interview, some things that he's obviously lacking in his failure to properly communicate with his franchise QB. Funny that no other head coach seems to have had communication or trust issues with Jay.

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 01:00 PM
Except the part where Bowlen said he was impressed by McDaniels maturity and communication skills in his interview, some things that he's obviously lacking in his failure to properly communicate with his franchise QB. Funny that no other head coach seems to have had communication or trust issues with Jay.

And we automatically assume that's because McDaniels has no communication skills. I dont see any other players complaining...or maybe Shanny just gave into him. It's still all speculation because WE DONT KNOW

omac
03-17-2009, 01:11 PM
And we automatically assume that's because McDaniels has no communication skills. I dont see any other players complaining...or maybe Shanny just gave into him. It's still all speculation because WE DONT KNOW

You're right, it could be because he has poor management skills, or maybe even poor people skills. It could be a ton of things. The way I see it, and most people including analysts see it, is that the way he's handled the situation and allowed it to progress to this point, as the head coach, is deplorable.

Unless, ofcourse, he (and maybe Jay) is getting exactly what he wants; an excuse to rid himself of the other.

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 01:16 PM
You're right, it could be because he has poor management skills, or maybe even poor people skills. It could be a ton of things. The way I see it, and most people including analysts see it, is that the way he's handled the situation and allowed it to progress to this point, as the head coach, is deplorable.

Unless, ofcourse, he (and maybe Jay) is getting exactly what he wants; an excuse to rid himself of the other.

And again, we'll assume all the negative possibilities.


Sheep

omac
03-17-2009, 01:56 PM
And again, we'll assume all the negative possibilities.


Sheep

Both ways, yes.

And I'm no sheep if that's what you're saying. I have my own opinions which go contrary to either "side". So keep your sheep comments to yourself.

CoachChaz
03-17-2009, 02:00 PM
Both ways, yes.

And I'm no sheep if that's what you're saying. I have my own opinions which go contrary to either "side". So keep your sheep comments to yourself.

Where did you say there was a possibility Mcd was right and Jay was wrong?

omac
03-17-2009, 02:08 PM
Where did you say there was a possibility Mcd was right and Jay was wrong?

Why don't you read my posts on the subject. I've said that it's one thing for a player to do something stupid, but a totally different matter when the head coach allows something like this to escalate.

In that statement alone, it's obviously implied that Cutler shares blame, but that I hold McDaniels in higher degree, because he is the head coach, and he has not handled the situation well. This is what's part of being a head coach in the NFL, taking care of situations like this.

MadMax
03-17-2009, 02:09 PM
What was reported was that Bowlen was so taken by McDaniels' maturity and communication skills. If Bowlen knew the PR nightmare he'd have to face this early in McDaniels tenure, and that priority one would be to trade the franchise QB for his former backup QB, I doubt he'd have hired him.

I don't think Jay is being short-sighted, though. I just don't think he wants to give McDaniels an opportunity to drag him down. He doesn't trust him.

Watch the NFL network video where they comment about what's happened. They all basically agree that trust is of paramount importance in a coach-QB relationship, and that McDaniels violated that trust by being dishonest with Jay. How can they now trust that neither won't try to bring the other down? As an extreme example, Martz rigged the QB competition in SF in order to elevate his boy, O'Sullivan, over Hill.

Like the analysts in the video said, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Your right, it could happen. But it probably won't, look at your own example Martz got fired after this season and one of the things they talked about was the rigged QB competition. As for Cutler, players that sandbag number one don't have the stats to command big money when they leave and number two teams suddenly become much less enthusiastic of players who sandbag because they want to know that no matter what happens they will get 100% from a player. I can't think of any football paralells but look at Manny Ramirez, he had a great second half of the season with the Dodgers but no one would sign him this year because of all the crap he pulled with Boston.

omac
03-17-2009, 02:13 PM
Your right, it could happen. But it probably won't, look at your own example Martz got fired after this season and one of the things they talked about was the rigged QB competition. As for Cutler, players that sandbag number one don't have the stats to command big money when they leave and number two teams suddenly become much less enthusiastic of players who sandbag because they want to know that no matter what happens they will get 100% from a player. I can't think of any football paralells but look at Manny Ramirez, he had a great second half of the season with the Dodgers but no one would sign him this year because of all the crap he pulled with Boston.

You are right that it probably won't happen, but it will be in the back of their minds. Right now, they are not teammates that have each others' backs; they're acting like adversaries. Tough for trust to develop in this kind of situation. The face-to-face meeting should've helped mend their relationship, but it's only made it worse.