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nthngd2say
03-15-2009, 06:45 PM
I didn't see this posted elsewhere but if it was, mods feel free to delete it.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11919325

They have tried talking on the phone, and meeting in person. Neither apparently has worked.

What's next for new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and his disgruntled quarterback, Jay Cutler? There now appears a real possibility the two sides are headed for a divorce based on irreconcilable differences.

"I'm very disappointed," Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday of the feud between his quarterback and first-year coach. "I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he is steadfastly supports his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the situation.

Friction between Cutler and McDaniels appears to have escalated following a meeting Saturday. Attending the meeting were Cutler, his agent Bus Cook, McDaniels and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders.

The Broncos say no ultimatums were given during the Saturday meeting, which the team characterized as mild-mannered, with no raised voices. However, no reconciliation was reached.

"We agreed to regroup and continue to have conversations," a Broncos spokesman told the Denver Post. "The Broncos reinforced to Jay and his agent that they have been honest with them since Day One."

The breakdown came just as it appeared Cutler and McDaniels were moving towards mending their relationship. Cutler returned to Denver late last week from Nashville, where he has spent most of the offseason. With McDaniels holding his first team meeting at 8 a.m. Monday, Cutler was not only planning to attend, he agreed to a pre-emptive personal meeting with his new coach and GM.

However, according to a source close to Cutler, the quarterback didn't like what he heard and as of Sunday was set on skipping the team meeting Monday.

Cutler has insisted that until his situation gets resolved, all conversation with Broncos officials must include his agent, Cook, who led the discussions in the both the conference call last Monday with Broncos officials and in the meeting Saturday with McDaniels and Xanders.

It's possible that because of their mistrust in Broncos officials, Cook and Cutler are seeking indications of a stronger commitment through a new contract. After making nearly $17 million through the first three years of his six-year contract, Cutler will make $1.035 million salary this season. Cutler could also earn an additional $100,000 by attending 90 percent of the team's offseason conditioning program that technically begins after the meeting Monday, although for now Cutler appears willing to forfeit that workout bonus.

Cutler also could earn potential bonuses of $4 million in 2010 and $12 million in 2011 that are not guaranteed but Denver Broncos would become vested through playing time and performance.

Cutler, who passed for 25 touchdowns and 4,526 yards last season while throwing 18 interceptions, has been unhappy with McDaniels since learning he was involved in a trade proposal that would have sent him to Tampa Bay in a three-team swap that would have brought Matt Cassel, McDaniels' former quarterback in New England, to Denver.

Cutler has said he is not bothered by the trade proposal itself, but feels McDaniels misled him. McDaniels has said the Broncos merely listened to offers submitted from other teams, as they do for all players, but Cutler's camp isn't buying that explanation.

The Broncos are now weighing their options.

The Broncos' current backup quarterback is Chris Simms, a former Tampa Bay starter who was recently signed to a two-year, $6 million contract from the free-agent market. Simms will make $3.46 million in salary and bonus for the 2009 season and could earn another $1.5 million in incentives that appear more makeable with each passing day of the Cutler controversy.

Cutler put his Parker home up for sale Friday and his parents listed their Elizabeth home for sale Saturday, perhaps sending the message they are serious about leaving Denver.

If Cutler is traded, his preferences figure to be the Tennessee Titans, who play in Nashville, or the Chicago Bears, his favorite childhood team who are in need of a quarterback upgrade. Other possibilities could be Cleveland, whose coach Eric Mangini, was formerly McDaniels' colleague on Bill Belichick's staff in New England; Tampa Bay; Minnesota; Detroit and Arizona.

Any trade would likely involve draft picks. April 25 is the first day of the NFL draft.

The Broncos could also decide to not trade Cutler and treat him as a holdout if he refuses off-season workouts.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-15-2009, 06:58 PM
Finally...a quote from someone who actually matters. If Bowlen doesn't expect a positive resloution, that is saying sumthin. I wonder if Tennessee would give us Vince Young plus 2 #1s???

claymore
03-15-2009, 07:05 PM
Finally...a quote from someone who actually matters. If Bowlen doesn't expect a positive resloution, that is saying sumthin. I wonder if Tennessee would give us Vince Young plus 2 #1s???

I wanna know what he means by the whole picture.


"I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

nthngd2say
03-15-2009, 07:06 PM
I wanna know what he means by the whole picture.

I thought Bowlen was referring to Cutler:

"I'm very disappointed," Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday of the feud between his quarterback and first-year coach. "I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he is steadfastly supports his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the situation.

Chris90210
03-15-2009, 07:07 PM
The whole situation sucks but Cutler is now in the wrong.

claymore
03-15-2009, 07:12 PM
I thought Bowlen was referring to Cutler:

"I'm very disappointed," Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday of the feud between his quarterback and first-year coach. "I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he is steadfastly supports his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the situation.I dont know... To me he made a gaff.


The whole situation sucks but Cutler is now in the wrong.

Ive gotta hear Cutler speak and McDaniels speak before I think Cutler is wrong. McDaniels obviously isnt telling him "Your our guy".

nthngd2say
03-15-2009, 07:13 PM
Its amazing how quickly things have deteriorated. I guess there's still some hope as Bowlen said we "might" lose our star QB but aside from Cutler basically back tracking on everything he said, I'm not sure how it will be resolved. Maybe Bowlen will wait and see how far Cutler is willing to take the issue. I doubt it though as Cutler's value would likely decrease after the draft as teams with QB needs will fill them or at least increase their depth putting the Broncos in a weaker position to bargain.

jrelway
03-15-2009, 07:13 PM
Finally...a quote from someone who actually matters. If Bowlen doesn't expect a positive resloution, that is saying sumthin. I wonder if Tennessee would give us Vince Young plus 2 #1s???

more like chris johnson plus 2 #1's.

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 07:16 PM
Cutler is just being a little snot nosed punk. I'd trade him tomorrow.

nthngd2say
03-15-2009, 07:19 PM
[QUOTE=claymore;587329]I dont know... To me he made a gaff.

That could be. Even with fairly credible media sources, they still leave some of the interpretation to the readers it seems.

The situation is rapidly deteriorating though and from what we do know, everyone in the FO is not pleased with Cutler. I can't currently figure out how this works out for Cutler, McDaniels, Bowlen or Broncos fans. if a trade happens, barring the Broncos fleecing another team or just getting them to over pay, we will not be as good without Cutler. Its a real bummer that no middle ground could ever be found...

KCL
03-15-2009, 07:19 PM
Cutler is just being a little snot nosed punk. I'd trade him tomorrow.

Best post I've read in all the Cutler threads....:heh:

Hardwired
03-15-2009, 07:23 PM
Can you imagine Brett Favre in the New England offense? No, and Cutler is more Farve than he is Elway.

When Bowlen hired McDaniels he was admitting Cutler is as much of the problem as Shanahan, and if Cutler couldn't fit the new offense, he would have to go.

Bowlen probably hoped McD could turn Cutler's lousy decision making around, but Cutler would first have to admit he had a problem to cure and he won't do it.

If we trade Cutler, Bowlen had to know from the day he hired McDaniels that it could come down to that, and that's why he says he supports the coach.

Maybe Pat isn't just firing a coach who refused to change, but a QB as well, and that's what he was willing to do from day one of the new Broncos.

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 07:24 PM
[QUOTE=claymore;587329]I dont know... To me he made a gaff.

That could be. Even with fairly credible media sources, they still leave some of the interpretation to the readers it seems.

The situation is rapidly deteriorating though and from what we do know, everyone in the FO is not pleased with Cutler. I can't currently figure out how this works out for Cutler, McDaniels, Bowlen or Broncos fans. if a trade happens, barring the Broncos fleecing another team or just getting them to over pay, we will not be as good without Cutler. Its a real bummer that no middle ground could ever be found...

In the long run, we'll be better without Cutler. His actions proves he's no leader and never will be. This isn't how a guy treats the team, coach, and owner. Cutler is proving to be a little spoiled bitch.

Chris90210
03-15-2009, 07:33 PM
I dont know... To me he made a gaff.



Ive gotta hear Cutler speak and McDaniels speak before I think Cutler is wrong. McDaniels obviously isnt telling him "Your our guy".

Yea but I think cutler is prolonging this whole ordeal. If Cutler isn't our guy(to McDingleberry) then he would keep cutler on the trading block. Obviously Mcsteak thinks he can work with cutler or else he would have been gone by now. I imagine there is one of few things going on. 1. Cutler is upset about being lied to about who initiated what. 2. McRib is wanting cutler to change in a way(style of play or whatever) and cutler doesn't like it. 3. McBurrito is pushing cutler to act like this so he has a reason to trade him which i doubt.

Either way if cutler leaves i'm pissed because I bought his Jersey.

nthngd2say
03-15-2009, 07:34 PM
[QUOTE=nthngd2say;587342]

In the long run, we'll be better without Cutler. His actions proves he's no leader and never will be. This isn't how a guy treats the team, coach, and owner. Cutler is proving to be a little spoiled bitch.

I definitely have been disappointed in Cutler's actions. While many of his media quotes seem childish, my issue with them is that they make Cutler appear to be lacking common sense. I don't understand how Cutler thought publicly questioning his owner, coaching decisions and defensive teammates was not going to have bad consequences. That was before the trade. To basically go head-to-head with your new coach and not return calls from the owner was basically brainless. We all have had issues with a boss or bosses over time but common sense usually wins out and we don't go to battle over it regardless of the circumstances. Its also quite surprising to me that Cutler is OK going to a team like Detroit where they also have a terrible defense and less on offense. Denver could easily do that trade and Cutler would be worse off than had he not forced the Broncos to trade him. I realize thats speculation, but Cutler has to know the chances of Denver trading him to a good team is slim to none. I guess that I am assuming again that Cutler has common sense which all of the rumors say otherwise...

slim
03-15-2009, 07:37 PM
Cutler is just being a little snot nosed punk. I'd trade him tomorrow.

Yup, he is acting like a bitch. We need Trevor Price to losen a few a Jay's chicklets.

claymore
03-15-2009, 07:39 PM
Yup, he is acting like a bitch. We need Trevor Price to losen a few a Jay's chicklets.

You SOB....... :tsk:

claymore
03-15-2009, 07:41 PM
Yea but I think cutler is prolonging this whole ordeal. If Cutler isn't our guy(to McDingleberry) then he would keep cutler on the trading block. Obviously Mcsteak thinks he can work with cutler or else he would have been gone by now. I imagine there is one of few things going on. 1. Cutler is upset about being lied to about who initiated what. 2. McRib is wanting cutler to change in a way(style of play or whatever) and cutler doesn't like it. 3. McBurrito is pushing cutler to act like this so he has a reason to trade him which i doubt.

Either way if cutler leaves i'm pissed because I bought his Jersey.
Me to, I will be Irate, Im fully invested.

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 07:43 PM
If I heard him correctly, McDaniels said at his "welcome to the Broncos" press conference that in his system, it requires the QB to make a lot of pre-snap reads and use his head a lot.

I think that after watching film on Cutler and seeing some of bone head decisions and now seeing how his decision making is effecting this situation, McDaniels would be wise to trade him because obviously Cutler can't think for himself without his agent present.

Magnificent Seven
03-15-2009, 07:45 PM
Well, I am frustrated with this whole situation. I hope that Cutler will change his mind and show up at Monday's meeting. He is gonna to have a long night to think about.

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 07:46 PM
If I heard him correctly, McDaniels said at his "welcome to the Broncos" press conference that in his system, it requires to make a lot of pre-snap reads and use his head a lot.

I think that after watching film on Cutler and seeing some of bone head decisions and now seeing how his decision making is effecting this situation, McDaniels would be wise to trade him because obviously Cutler can't think for himself without his agent present.

So you dont think Cutler can "use his head a lot"?

The dude went to Vanderbilt, a college that produces Doctors and Lawyers like a Coors factory produces beer.

That logic makes a lot of sense :rolleyes:

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 07:47 PM
So you dont think Cutler can "use his head a lot"?

The dude went to Vanderbilt, a college that produces Doctors and Lawyers like a Coors factory produces beer.

That logic makes a lot of sense :rolleyes:

How many NFL QB's has it produces? Cutler might be book smart, but his decisions on the field can be questionable.

:rolleyes:

slim
03-15-2009, 07:48 PM
You SOB....... :tsk:

Clay, he needs to man up.

So they thought about trading him...is it really that big of a deal? Time for him to wash the sand out of the 'gina and get back to work.

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 07:50 PM
How many NFL QB's has it produces? Cutler might be book smart, but his decisions on the field can be questionable.

:rolleyes:

None because the only worthy QB to come out of Vanderbilt is on our team right now...

nthngd2say
03-15-2009, 07:50 PM
I dont know... To me he made a gaff.



Ive gotta hear Cutler speak and McDaniels speak before I think Cutler is wrong. McDaniels obviously isnt telling him "Your our guy".

The Post article has been updated on this quote and now reads:
"I'm very disappointed," Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday. "I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he steadfastly supports his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the two-week standoff.

claymore
03-15-2009, 07:51 PM
Clay, he needs to man up.

So they thought about trading him...is it really that big of a deal? Time for him to wash the sand out of the 'gina and get back to work.

I dont think he has done anything wrong. Dude, somethings up with McDaniels. I think he maybe the "Anti Coach".... Its the end of the NFL.

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 07:52 PM
None because the only worthy QB to come out of Vanderbilt is on our team right now...

:confused::confused:

I wonder why?

BigDaddyBronco
03-15-2009, 07:54 PM
This is why you don't get invested emotionally in any player. Something happens that breaks your heart.

If Cutler is not responding well to his owner, it is over.

If they don't get decent trade value for him, let him sit and rot and he can think about an attitude change.

BTW, when you change from a HOF coach to another coach, they usually have to blow the team up and rebuild. Two steps back for five forward. Or at least that is what I hope.

claymore
03-15-2009, 07:55 PM
:confused::confused:

I wonder why?

I cant believe you dont like Jay Cutler....... It baffles me.

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 07:57 PM
:confused::confused:

I wonder why?

Because they were all going to Vanderbilt TO BE DOCTORS AND LAWYERS!

I am baffled because I honestly dont see why some of you posters want to get rid of Cutler, who WILL be an elite Quarterback in this league very very soon.

KCL
03-15-2009, 07:57 PM
This is why you don't get invested emotionally in any player. Something happens that breaks your heart.

If Cutler is not responding well to his owner, it is over.

If they don't get decent trade value for him, let him sit and rot and he can think about an attitude change.

BTW, when you change from a HOF coach to another coach, they usually have to blow the team up and rebuild. Two steps back for five forward. Or at least that is what I hope.

No shit...I absolutely hated to see Jared Allen go but it is what it is...and for the most part...It's a business just like Trent Green said in the video that was posted.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 07:58 PM
Can you imagine Brett Favre in the New England offense? No, and Cutler is more Farve than he is Elway.

When Bowlen hired McDaniels he was admitting Cutler is as much of the problem as Shanahan, and if Cutler couldn't fit the new offense, he would have to go.

Bowlen probably hoped McD could turn Cutler's lousy decision making around, but Cutler would first have to admit he had a problem to cure and he won't do it.

If we trade Cutler, Bowlen had to know from the day he hired McDaniels that it could come down to that, and that's why he says he supports the coach.

Maybe Pat isn't just firing a coach who refused to change, but a QB as well, and that's what he was willing to do from day one of the new Broncos.


you very well may be on something here..

Rumored that cutler wanted to be involved in the coach making process..

Pat may have commented mikey to get his QB in control and looking for the open man opposed to going to Marshall all the time.. (I know had I been Pat I would have asked about it) there may have been some feed back about this who knows.. maybe they got signals from the agent they anted to get a new contract..

Hell maybe jay snubbed Pat before.. but the phone call did it IMHO..

Time for Pat to set down with jay Mano e Mano.. give him the facts of life he works for the HC get used to it or plan on being suspended without pay....

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 08:00 PM
Yea but I think cutler is prolonging this whole ordeal. If Cutler isn't our guy(to McDingleberry) then he would keep cutler on the trading block. Obviously Mcsteak thinks he can work with cutler or else he would have been gone by now. I imagine there is one of few things going on. 1. Cutler is upset about being lied to about who initiated what. 2. McRib is wanting cutler to change in a way(style of play or whatever) and cutler doesn't like it. 3. McBurrito is pushing cutler to act like this so he has a reason to trade him which i doubt.

Either way if cutler leaves i'm pissed because I bought his Jersey.

you have an eating disorder?

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 08:02 PM
you very well may be on something here..

Rumored that cutler wanted to be involved in the coach making process..

Pat may have commented mikey to get his QB in control and looking for the open man opposed to going to Marshall all the time.. (I know had I been Pat I would have asked about it) there may have been some feed back about this who knows.. maybe they got signals from the agent they anted to get a new contract..

Hell maybe jay snubbed Pat before.. but the phone call did it IMHO..

Time for Pat to set down with jay Mano e Mano.. give him the facts of life he works for the HC get used to it or plan on being suspended without pay....

Bowlen is a little bitch. He wants nothing to do with the football decision making side of the NFL.

I cant see Bowlen sitting down with Jay Cutler one on one...

Northman
03-15-2009, 08:02 PM
Finally...a quote from someone who actually matters. If Bowlen doesn't expect a positive resloution, that is saying sumthin. I wonder if Tennessee would give us Vince Young plus 2 #1s???

Ill skip taking Young and just take the 2 1sts. :D

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 08:03 PM
No shit...I absolutely hated to see Jared Allen go but it is what it is...and for the most part...It's a business just like Trent Green said in the video that was posted.

I bet Montreal hated to see Patrick Roy go to, but once a player gets into the organization and HC,you have to cut your ties.

The organization was here years before the player, and will continue to be here years after the player.

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 08:03 PM
Bowlen is a little bitch. He wants nothing to do with the football decision making side of the NFL.

I cant see Bowlen sitting down with Jay Cutler one on one...

Your right, he is only known SPORTS WIDE as one of the BEST OWNERS in all of Professional sports.

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 08:06 PM
Your right, he is only known SPORTS WIDE as one of the BEST OWNERS in all of Professional sports.

I am right. He wants nothing to do with the front office personel decisions and such.

You want proof? In the firing of Shanahan, a reporter asked him if he would become more involved in the personel and the player portion of the business. His answer was "Hell No"...

The only reason he's considered one of the "best owners" is because his team would win constantly, had great facilities, and he would give the head coach what he needs to win.

:coffee:

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 08:09 PM
I am right. He wants nothing to do with the front office personel decisions and such.

You want proof? In the firing of Shanahan, a reporter asked him if he would become more involved in the personel and the player portion of the business. His answer was "Hell No"...

The only reason he's considered one of the "best owners" is because his team would win constantly, had great facilities, and he would give the head coach what he needs to win.:coffee:

Thats exactly what he doing now.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 08:10 PM
If I heard him correctly, McDaniels said at his "welcome to the Broncos" press conference that in his system, it requires the QB to make a lot of pre-snap reads and use his head a lot.

I think that after watching film on Cutler and seeing some of bone head decisions and now seeing how his decision making is effecting this situation, McDaniels would be wise to trade him because obviously Cutler can't think for himself without his agent present.


good catch I forgot that he also said we have to get bigger, faster, and meaner..

I have a theory question here .. need the draft experts to answer this one..

If we were to trade with DET for #1 and #20 and something else whatever..

If we can't get a great deal with whom we wanted for the #1 pick and we allow the next team to chose. Then perhaps as far down as #4-6 before we make our choice. Who gets the #1 money? the one actually taken or do you think our choice would indeed hold out for it..



We still get one of the top 4-5 choices in the draft and do not have to pay #1 money in guarantees or contract..

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 08:11 PM
Thats exactly what he doing now.

He is just giving McDaniels all the power just like Mike Shanahan. There isnt anything different here. Bowlen didnt learn his lesson the first time...and now he will lose his Franchise QB for it.

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 08:14 PM
good catch I forgot that he also said we have to get bigger, faster, and meaner..

I have a theory question here .. need the draft experts to answer this one..

If we were to trade with DET for #1 and #20 and something else whatever..

If we can't get a great deal with whom we wanted for the #1 pick and we allow the next team to chose. Then perhaps as far down as #4-6 before we make our choice. Who gets the #1 money? the one actually taken or do you think our choice would indeed hold out for it..



We still get one of the top 4-5 choices in the draft and do not have to pay #1 money in guarantees or contract..

You really dont listen.

There's no way we'd get both of the Lions first round picks because we cant afford to pay those kind of salaries when we are sitting only 16 mil above the salary cap.

If we are going to trade Jay Cutler, we need fair value.

And the fact is that we can not afford the "fair value" that Cutler is worth. I would think that McDaniels isnt stupid enough to see that.

Cutler can not be traded for fair value...so we really shouldnt trade him

Hardwired
03-15-2009, 08:14 PM
good catch I forgot that he also said we have to get bigger, faster, and meaner..

I have a theory question here .. need the draft experts to answer this one..

If we were to trade with DET for #1 and #20 and something else whatever..

If we can't get a great deal with whom we wanted for the #1 pick and we allow the next team to chose. Then perhaps as far down as #4-6 before we make our choice. Who gets the #1 money? the one actually taken or do you think our choice would indeed hold out for it..



We still get one of the top 4-5 choices in the draft and do not have to pay #1 money in guarantees or contract..

I've often wondered if the team with the #1 picks says "We pass. We can't afford it." what happens?

bud
03-15-2009, 08:15 PM
Miss me?

You know... All this stuff is going to be judged in hindsight and from 10,000 feet.

Bowlen always says he supports his head coaches. Always. The first real hint of trouble with Reeves, Phillips, and Shanahan was the pink slip. Bowlen hasn't made a habit of dropping hints.. Bowlen simply gets fed and fires people. So, let's not pretend that any coach is safe and free. That's not the real world.

In the end, all that will matter are numbers. Can McDaniels make Broncos fans forget about Cutler? Winning alone may not be enough to do it. And, McDaniels is losing goodwill with fans; and that means less time to rebuild.

No matter what your personal little feelings might be, the Bronconation will think of this in only one way: McDaniels must always have a quarterback that matches (or exceeds) what Cutler is doing elsewhere. Anything less will not be tolerated. The little details will fade; but the bare reality will remain: McDaniels got rid of Denver's franchise quarterback.

Most people won't remember or care about the little things. If Cutler is playing better elsewhere while Denver struggles at quarterback, McDaniels will be fired for it. Fans will demand it and Bowlen will deliver. Minority voices and details won't matter.

The comparison will never end. The more success Cutler finds away from Denver, the longer the shadow will fall on McDaniels. That's just a bare cold hard fact of life that everybody should see right now. (Doesn't matter if you personally disagree with the gang opinion of Bronconation. Sorry.)

Why would McDaniels want this kind of challenge? Isn't rebuilding Denver's awful defense enough?

I think McDaniels is setting himself up for failure here. Why not just apologize to Cutler? Is it really that hard to do?

Picture this: The Broncos go deep into the playoffs the year after next with a new mediocre QB. The team loses; our quarterback has a mediocre day. Far away from Denver, Jay Cutler didn't go any further in the playoffs (with his new team); BUT he did have a huge year--in the regular season.

Given that scenerio, we all know the first thing that Broncos fans are going to say: "If we had Cutler, we would be in the Super Bowl!"

See how that works? It never ends.

Why sign up for that? Is it worth it?

McDaniels doesn't want this. To survive this, McDaniels has to quiet the critics. And, the only way to do that: find a quarterback to completely match or exceed what Cutler does elsewhere. Rather that is fair or not isn't the point.

The moment Cutler leaves town, the clock is ticking on McDaniels. The expectations go even higher... That's the last thing he needs.

I wish he would just apologize to Cutler and move on.

Even established coaches would question their ability survive trading a guy like Cutler.

This whole thing stinks.

Magnificent Seven
03-15-2009, 08:16 PM
I guess they will trade Cutler to Detroit for # 1 draft pick. Possibly to draft Georgia's Matthew Stafford. Therefore, they might have McDaniels & Stafford Era begins.

KCL
03-15-2009, 08:17 PM
He is just giving McDaniels all the power just like Mike Shanahan. There isnt anything different here. Bowlen didnt learn his lesson the first time...and now he will lose his Franchise QB for it.

I may be wrong and correct me if I am but isn't this why an owner has a GM and a coach to make the decisions that they feel are best for the team?

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 08:18 PM
I guess they will trade Cutler to Detroit for # 1 draft pick. Possibly to draft Georgia's Matthew Stafford. Therefore, they might have McDaniels & Stafford Era begins.

I think I would rather have Dirty Sanchez.

Northman
03-15-2009, 08:20 PM
I think I would rather have Dirty Sanchez.

I can handle that for ya sweetie pie.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 08:21 PM
You really dont listen.

There's no way we'd get both of the Lions first round picks because we cant afford to pay those kind of salaries when we are sitting only 16 mil above the salary cap.

If we are going to trade Jay Cutler, we need fair value.

And the fact is that we can not afford the "fair value" that Cutler is worth. I would think that McDaniels isnt stupid enough to see that.

Cutler can not be traded for fair value...so we really shouldnt trade him


and it obvious that you did not read my post IF we use the #1 choice to take the #5 player we do not have top pony up 40 mil up front in guarantees..

right now fair value for jay is something less than ham sandwich..

the more he pisses and moans the harder it will be to get fair value for him..

if it were me I'd suspend him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team..

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 08:23 PM
and it obvious that you did not read my post IF we use the #1 choice to take the #5 player we do not have top pony up 40 mil up front in guarantees..

right now fair value for jay is something less than ham sandwich..

the more he pisses and moans the harder it will be to get fair value for him..

if it were me I'd suspend him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team..

There is plenty of value for him.

Suspend him, yeah, that will show him. And be a distraction the whole season.

Unload him now and be done with it.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 08:27 PM
I may be wrong and correct me if I am but isn't this why an owner has a GM and a coach to make the decisions that they feel are best for the team?

what some have not figured out is owners hire manager to run the team/business for them..

they are called General Managers and in this case Head Coaches..

if they did not trust them they would be the GM themselves.. like jerry Jones and al davis and maybe even Daniel Snyder..

just because the primadonna wants to throw a temper tantrum is not enough to get the head Cheese involved..

So far I applaud Pats position on this.. allow your men to do the job..

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 08:29 PM
and it obvious that you did not read my post IF we use the #1 choice to take the #5 player we do not have top pony up 40 mil up front in guarantees..

right now fair value for jay is something less than ham sandwich..

the more he pisses and moans the harder it will be to get fair value for him..

if it were me I'd suspend him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team..

Suspend him? That's one of the dumbest idea I've heard.....it comes right behind the idea of trading him. That is number 1.

Fair value for Jay Cutler is a young starting QB and a draft pick.

We arent going to get a young starting QB from anybody in this league. In addition we can only afford to pay the guaranteed money of only our #12 overall pick.

We just cant afford to trade Jay Cutler...both financially and with regards to our team.

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 08:29 PM
And here I was going to give Cutler the benefit of the doubt going into his
4th season thinking he would mature....

:rolleyes:

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 08:29 PM
There is plenty of value for him.

Suspend him, yeah, that will show him. And be a distraction the whole season.

Unload him now and be done with it.

not if he is not on the bench or locker room.. if he is in Santa Claus Indiana he is no longer an issue..

since he will need to make payments on his houses and cars perhaps he will see the light..

What pray tell is that fire his money grubbing agent..

KCL
03-15-2009, 08:30 PM
And here I was going to give Cutler the benefit of the doubt going into his
4th season thinking he would mature....

:rolleyes:

Hey it could still happen....:D

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 08:31 PM
not if he is not on the bench or locker room.. if he is in Santa Claus Indiana he is no longer an issue..

since he will need to make payments on his houses and cars perhaps he will see the light..

What pray tell is that fire his money grubbing agent..

That sure shows him. His base is only a mil this year.

Suspending him would be the worst idea of all. I can't think of a worse solution. Jr, are you doing meth?

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 08:31 PM
not if he is not on the bench or locker room.. if he is in Santa Claus Indiana he is no longer an issue..

since he will need to make payments on his houses and cars perhaps he will see the light..

What pray tell is that fire his money grubbing agent..

I agree with you here....Bus Cook is the gasoline fueling this fire between McDaniels and Cutler.

That damn idiot :tsk:

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 08:31 PM
Hey it could still happen....:D

You shut the hell up, 1993.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 08:32 PM
Suspend him? That's one of the dumbest idea I've heard.....it comes right behind the idea of trading him. That is number 1.

Fair value for Jay Cutler is a young starting QB and a draft pick.

We arent going to get a young starting QB from anybody in this league. In addition we can only afford to pay the guaranteed money of only our #12 overall pick.
We just cant afford to trade Jay Cutler...both financially and with regards to our team.

you do not have any idea what we can afford and what we can't.. Let the HC and GM consult with Pat on what we can do.. until I hear your in on those talks, stop acting like you were

roomemp
03-15-2009, 08:32 PM
If Cutler isn't willing to change and adapt to the team, then he is gone.

KCL
03-15-2009, 08:33 PM
You shut the hell up, 1993.

WTF? I am being serious and like I stated in one of the many other threads,maybe Cutler is keeping away from the team because he is actually hoping for a trade.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 08:34 PM
That sure shows him. His base is only a mil this year.

Suspending him would be the worst idea of all. I can't think of a worse solution. Jr, are you doing meth?

he can make an additional 4-5 mil in incentives this year IIRC.. that is far from a bit over a mil..

beef it is all about the money.. the sooner you get that the sooner we can get this done..


follow the money..

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 08:35 PM
he can make an additional 4-5 mil in incentives this year IIRC.. that is far from a bit over a mil..

beef it is all about the money.. the sooner you get that the sooner we can get this done..


follow the money..

You sure are in the room tonight.

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 08:37 PM
you do not have any idea what we can afford and what we can't.. Let the HC and GM consult with Pat on what we can do.. until I hear your in on those talks be quiet..

I really dont understand how a moderator is allowed to get away with telling somebody to shut up. I think that's against the code of conduct on these boards :rolleyes:

Like i said, we are sitting underneath the cap at $16 million. The #12th overall pick takes about 4-5 million of that. That leaves us with roughly $11 million to sign the rest of our draft picks, extend Brandon Marshall's contract, and make any other necessary moves.

We cant afford to trade Cutler for a top 10 pick in the draft ...deal with it.

Magnificent Seven
03-15-2009, 08:38 PM
Sign neither Brett Favre nor Jake Plummer for an emergency quarterback. :salute:

KCL
03-15-2009, 08:39 PM
I really dont understand how a moderator is allowed to get away with telling somebody to shut up. I think that's against the code of conduct on these boards :rolleyes:

Like i said, we are sitting underneath the cap at $16 million. The #12th overall pick takes about 4-5 million of that. That leaves us with roughly $11 million to sign the rest of our draft picks, extend Brandon Marshall's contract, and make any other necessary moves.

We cant afford to trade Cutler for a top 10 pick in the draft ...deal with it.

Bief called him an ass hole and you high fived it....:lol:

Den21vsBal19
03-15-2009, 08:44 PM
Less personal comments, and more on topic, if you would be so kind ladies & gents

:focus:

Gamechanger
03-15-2009, 08:50 PM
idk.....sounds like Cutler is trying to burn a bridge but at the same time the question lies in.....if Cutler is traded....what now? who would at least be a managable arm?

Simms is not, sorry to say

any situation can be resolved, I'm sure there could be, even with this, this doesn't sound like a QB-HC spat anymore, i'm sure that it is not that and its deeper

Bowlens best bet IMHO however is to let Cutler act like this UNTIL there is an insurance policy at QB

but Bowlen should also heed this warning in his words though on both sides of this spat: do not put all the eggs in one basket

bcbronc
03-15-2009, 08:59 PM
Best post I've read in all the Cutler threads....:heh:

JR, even though I'm generally on the same side of this debate as you are, high fiving Chief fans taking pot shots at our team is going to far. you, sir, have earned a big BOOOOOOOOOOO from me. hmph.


I bet Montreal hated to see Patrick Roy go to, but once a player gets into the organization and HC,you have to cut your ties.

The organization was here years before the player, and will continue to be here years after the player.

considering the Habs have done squiddely squat since they moved Roy, and the Avs won a couple Stanley Cups, this is probably the worst friggin example possible. fail.


I am right. He wants nothing to do with the front office personel decisions and such.

You want proof? In the firing of Shanahan, a reporter asked him if he would become more involved in the personel and the player portion of the business. His answer was "Hell No"...

The only reason he's considered one of the "best owners" is because his team would win constantly, had great facilities, and he would give the head coach what he needs to win.

:coffee:

the "hell no" is the exact reason Bowlen is considered one of the "best owners" in the league.


anyways, glad Bowlen finally went on the record with something. Cutler, it seemed like we hardly knew ye, but don't let the door hit your mangina on the way out.

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 09:03 PM
you do not have any idea what we can afford and what we can't.. Let the HC and GM consult with Pat on what we can do.. until I hear your in on those talks be quiet..

Here it is folks, opinions not allowed per Methusaluh.

KCL
03-15-2009, 09:05 PM
JR, even though I'm generally on the same side of this debate as you are, high fiving Chief fans taking pot shots at our team is going to far. you, sir, have earned a big BOOOOOOOOOOO from me. hmph.




oh Good Lord....:rolleyes: And if you read back...I was quoting a Bronco fan that was taking pot shots at your team.

dogfish
03-15-2009, 09:18 PM
grrrrr. . . .




this is SO ******* stupid!!



:frusty: :frusty:




how the hell did it ever get to this point? buncha stubborn, egotistical knuckleheads! oh, and a drunk. . . . :tsk:

and who gets screwed? the fans, of course. . . no matter how things go, at the end of the day bowlen is still a billionaire-- cutler's still a millionaire with tons of earning potential. . . IMO mcdaniels is setting himself up for an epic failure, but he's still going to get paid several million dollars to do it, and even if he never gets another HC position he can still get paid very well as an OC at either the college or pro level. . .



and the broncos fans that actually provide that money, both directly and indirectly, are the ones that really get the shaft-- we're probably gonna get stuck watching our team go 5-11, and as likely as not go another five years if not ten before we find another quality young QB that we can build around for the long haul. . . :frusty:

gah, the idea of spending a first on the likes of sanchez or freeman makes me sick. . . .

shoulda hired spagnuolo, dammit-- all we needed was somebody to fix the freakin' _efense! now, it looks like we may be rebuilding the offense instead. . . . :frusty: six weeks ago we were looking at a unit with pretty much all the pieces in place except maybe a running back, and now it's possible that we could be down to royal, stokley, gaffney and graham before the season even starts. . .

thank god we at least used some of that fat chunk of cap space to acquire some defensive talent that we can build around for the long term. . . .


no, wait. . . .



:frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

broncophan
03-15-2009, 09:26 PM
when our owner says he's disappointed that we may lose our starting qb........it's a done deal......and Cutler is as good as gone imo....

topscribe
03-15-2009, 09:41 PM
I don't know who is more to blame than the other. All I know is with Shanahan
the Broncos had Cutler and with McDaniels it is looking increasingly like they
don't. That's all I need to hate the fact that McDaniels is the head coach . . .

-----

bcbronc
03-15-2009, 10:12 PM
oh Good Lord....:rolleyes: And if you read back...I was quoting a Bronco fan that was taking pot shots at your team.

hey don't get me wrong, if this was a Chief's situation, I'd be taken pot shots too. but even if us Bronco fans are ripping each other apart internally, we still need to be united in the face of the enemy. :salute:





shoulda hired spagnuolo, dammit-- all we needed was somebody to fix the freakin' _efense! now, it looks like we may be rebuilding the offense instead. . . . :frusty: six weeks ago we were looking at a unit with pretty much all the pieces in place except maybe a running back, and now it's possible that we could be down to royal, stokley, gaffney and graham before the season even starts. . .

thank god we at least used some of that fat chunk of cap space to acquire some defensive talent that we can build around for the long term. . . .


how can you forget that we've still got a heck of a good oline that should only get better and better over the next five years?

if nothing else, McDaniel's deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to running an offense. we've still got that oline, and we've got a coaching duo that has been a key part to a great running system. those are ingredients that don't necessarily need a top 5 quarterback to be successful.

our defense is improved, even before we hopefully add 1-2 key pieces for next year through the draft. even still, we're likely 1-3 years away from having a playoff-calibre defense. taking a couple years to find our next starting qb isn't the worst thing in the world.

sure there is the risk we take 10 years to find our next franchise qb. but there's also the chance that moving Cutler results in the piece on defense that makes winning without a franchise qb possible. this year could be a write-off, but I'm confident that with the pieces we do have even without Marshall, Cutler, and Schef, that by next season we will have a productive offense no matter who is under centre.

bcbronc
03-15-2009, 10:15 PM
I don't know who is more to blame than the other. All I know is with Shanahan
the Broncos had Cutler and with McDaniels it is looking increasingly like they
don't. That's all I need to hate the fact that McDaniels is the head coach . . .

-----

I heard this on ESPN (and don't actually believe it) but apparently more teams have won the Super Bowl WITHOUT Cutler than have won it with him. :eek:

bullis26
03-15-2009, 10:22 PM
i would really like this trade, Jay cutler for Brady Quinn, shaun rodgers, and maybe a swap of rd 1's, or get a second or third..... i know quinn hasnt done anything in the NFL, but i thought he was the best QB in the draft in 2007, jamarcus russull never impressed me, he's got a cannon thats it... Brady Quinn in 2009!!! make it happen, get this 5 year old outta here

atwater27
03-15-2009, 10:52 PM
Cutler is just being a little snot nosed punk. I'd trade him tomorrow.

Right. It's all his fault. Not a snot nosed head coach who only has 7 years on him.

dogfish
03-15-2009, 10:57 PM
I heard this on ESPN (and don't actually believe it) but apparently more teams have won the Super Bowl WITHOUT Cutler than have won it with him. :eek:

okay, how many teams have won it with chris simms as their quarterback, huh smart guy?


:laugh:




:frusty:

bullis26
03-15-2009, 11:02 PM
okay, how many teams have won it with chris simms as their quarterback, huh smart guy?


:laugh:




:frusty:

did you hear that one from espn dogfish? because if you didnt i dont believe it :laugh::laugh:.... but back to being serious, neither of them have won in this league, i really dont feel like searching for simms record but does anybody know what chris simms W-L record is, i know cutlers off the top of my head 17-20 with no playoff experience

dogfish
03-15-2009, 11:05 PM
how can you forget that we've still got a heck of a good oline that should only get better and better over the next five years?

i haven't, but i like the thought of ADDING weapons, not trading proven producers for rookies that could very possibly bust and give us nothing. . . the chefs had one of the best O-lines in the game during the vermeil era, and with a bad defense and no explosiveness in the passing game, they didn't win a single playoff game. . .



if nothing else, McDaniel's deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to running an offense.

sorry, i'm giving him nothing at this point-- any mook with a clipboard could get results with a first-ballot HOFer at both QB and wide receiver, especially when the HC says "score as much as you possibly can, even if we have to go for it on 4th down with a twenty point lead in the 4th quarter". . .

he sure as hell doesn't look like he knows how to run an organization, and that's what we brought him in to do-- and it's been amateur hour ever since. . . .




we've still got that oline, and we've got a coaching duo that has been a key part to a great running system. those are ingredients that don't necessarily need a top 5 quarterback to be successful.

i'd rather have on than not have one, that's simple math. . . .




our defense is improved,

maybe marginally, but i question how much-- people said it was improved last year, too. . . .



taking a couple years to find our next starting qb isn't the worst thing in the world.

it isn't a good thing when we already HAD one-- at least, it sure isn't from my vantage point. . . .



JMO. . .

bcbronc
03-15-2009, 11:06 PM
okay, how many teams have won it with chris simms as their quarterback, huh smart guy?


:laugh:




:frusty:

I don't think Sims is anyone's idea of a long term answer. but as a 1-2 year bandaid, he should help our draft position while we reload.


:beer: <-- a better way to get a headache.

bcbronc
03-15-2009, 11:37 PM
[QUOTE]i haven't, but i like the thought of ADDING weapons, not trading proven producers for rookies that could very possibly bust and give us nothing. . . the chefs had one of the best O-lines in the game during the vermeil era, and with a bad defense and no explosiveness in the passing game, they didn't win a single playoff game. . .

the Chiefs also had a qb who consistently threw for 4000+ yards too. in fact Trent Green's 2004 season looked pretty similiar statistically to Jay's numbers this year. I'm not saying Cutler will be the next Green, but at this point in his career Jay has won less than Trent. and the way Cutler has handled himself since the release of Shanny, it gives me serious doubts as to whether he ever will.

phenomenal talent, love his competitiveness and work ethic. but he's done nothing yet that puts him above the franchise. and pouting because your coach and GM would trade you if they felt it made the team better IS putting yourself ahead of the franchise.



sorry, i'm giving him nothing at this point-- any mook with a clipboard could get results with a first-ballot HOFer at both QB and wide receiver, especially when the HC says "score as much as you possibly can, even if we have to go for it on 4th down with a twenty point lead in the 4th quarter". . .

but it's not like he took that HOF QB and WR combo and just put up a solid offense. he put up the best offense ever. and he did pretty good without the HOF QB to boot.


he sure as hell doesn't look like he knows how to run an organization, and that's what we brought him in to do-- and it's been amateur hour ever since. . . .

so it's okay for Cutler to have growing pains, but McDanny is expected to handle everything perfectly from the moment he gets the keys to Dove Valley? :confused:


i'd rather have one than not have one, that's simple math. . . .

and I'd rather have a Lombardi than a top 5 QB. sure that top 5 QB improves our chances at the Lombardi, but I haven't yet heard Jay come out and say he's willing to put this behind him and move forward with McDaniels and the Broncos. I guess we'll see tomorrow if Cutler is willing to do that.


maybe marginally, but i question how much-- people said it was improved last year, too. . . .


my point bringing up the defense was that Cutler or no Cutler, we're at least a couple of seasons away from being a team that can make a playoff run. sure teams turn it around in a single season, but realistically, considering where we are coming from and the change in scheme, we can afford to start at square one with a new qb.


it isn't a good thing when we already HAD one-- at least, it sure isn't from my vantage point. . . .

in a perfect world, this situation wouldn't exist. but it does. but that doesn't automatically condemn us to a decade of wandering the qb dessert. but I'd rather that, in all honesty, than allowing one player to put himself above the franchise or having an owner that fires head coaches at the drop of a flask.



JMO. . .

JMO2

DenBronx
03-16-2009, 12:07 AM
i dont know what to think anymore. this really sucks....all of it.

bowlen did state he is disapointed in alot of things. i wonder what he meant by that.

idiots should have just taken cassel and the 2 1st rounders. now were royally screwed.

bullis26
03-16-2009, 12:10 AM
i dont know what to think anymore. This really sucks....all of it.

Bowlen did state he is disapointed in alot of things. I wonder what he meant by that.

idiots should have just taken cassel and the 2 1st rounders. Now were royally screwed.

agreed

DenBronx
03-16-2009, 02:40 AM
agreed

we pass on a deal like that and dont pull the trigger. i wonder why? reports were mcdaniels said yes and xanders said no.

but im pissed at cutler now for asking for the trade. i cant stand mcdummy but by cutler asking for a trade makes me lose alot of respect for him.

WARHORSE
03-16-2009, 03:37 AM
Finally...a quote from someone who actually matters. If Bowlen doesn't expect a positive resloution, that is saying sumthin. I wonder if Tennessee would give us Vince Young plus 2 #1s???


For the record:

Vince young sucks!

WARHORSE
03-16-2009, 03:41 AM
did you hear that one from espn dogfish? because if you didnt i dont believe it :laugh::laugh:.... but back to being serious, neither of them have won in this league, i really dont feel like searching for simms record but does anybody know what chris simms W-L record is, i know cutlers off the top of my head 17-20 with no playoff experience


Yeah, he never made a single tackle.:tsk:

tomjonesrocks
03-16-2009, 10:04 AM
i would really like this trade, Jay cutler for Brady Quinn, shaun rodgers, and maybe a swap of rd 1's, or get a second or third..... i know quinn hasnt done anything in the NFL, but i thought he was the best QB in the draft in 2007, jamarcus russull never impressed me, he's got a cannon thats it... Brady Quinn in 2009!!! make it happen, get this 5 year old outta here

Not singling you out, but I'm growing tired of these wild dreams over what the team will get in return for Cutler...

I don't know why people think we're going to get a lot for him. We won't. We are in a terrible position to bargain at this point and will settle for way under market value if we let him go.

If we do better than a 2nd round pick and a marginal player, or one QB below Cutler's value straight up, I'll be shocked. And this team will be far worse for it.

skycoyote
03-16-2009, 10:48 AM
Not singling you out, but I'm growing tired of these wild dreams over what the team will get in return for Cutler...

I don't know why people think we're going to get a lot for him. We won't. We are in a terrible position to bargain at this point and will settle for way under market value if we let him go.

If we do better than a 2nd round pick and a marginal player, or one QB below Cutler's value straight up, I'll be shocked. And this team will be far worse for it.

I agree with you Tom. My favorite "wild dream" was Cutler and our #12 for Garrard. :lol: When the QB says he wants traded you just showed your hand and lost your ace.

bcbronc
03-16-2009, 11:03 AM
Not singling you out, but I'm growing tired of these wild dreams over what the team will get in return for Cutler...

I don't know why people think we're going to get a lot for him. We won't. We are in a terrible position to bargain at this point and will settle for way under market value if we let him go.

If we do better than a 2nd round pick and a marginal player, or one QB below Cutler's value straight up, I'll be shocked. And this team will be far worse for it.

not necessarily. it all depends on how many teams would be interested in acquiring Jay. If you get 3-4 teams showing serious interest, it will push the return up. but if Jay's "poise under fire" during this escapade scares potential suitors off, then you're 100% correct.

weazel
03-16-2009, 11:14 AM
if Bowlen is disappointed but still backing the coach, that tells me he knows more than we do and that Cutler is the problem

TXBRONC
03-16-2009, 12:22 PM
Finally...a quote from someone who actually matters. If Bowlen doesn't expect a positive resloution, that is saying sumthin. I wonder if Tennessee would give us Vince Young plus 2 #1s???

I wouldn't want Young but two number one picks would be a good start.