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Italianmobstr7
03-15-2009, 11:39 AM
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=111890&catid=339

DENVER - Friction between Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler and coach Josh McDaniels appears to be turning into a full-fledged feud.

According to a source close to Cutler, the quarterback and McDaniels exchanged words during a one-on-one meeting Saturday. No ultimatums were given, according to the Broncos, but the meeting ended without reconciliation.

"There was a brief meeting Saturday morning and we agreed to regroup and continue to have conversations," a Broncos spokesman told the Denver Post this Sunday morning.

The breakdown came just as it appeared Cutler and McDaniels were moving toward mending their relationship. Cutler returned to Denver late last week from Nashville, where he has spent most of his offseason.

With McDaniels holding his first team meeting at 8 a.m. Monday, Cutler not only had planned to attend but had agreed to a personal meeting with his coach. Cutler apparently didn't like what he heard and it is now doubtful he will attend the team meeting Monday, according to the source.

Cutler has been unhappy since learning he was involved in a trade proposal that would have sent him to Tampa Bay in a three-team swap that would have brought Matt Cassel, McDaniels' former quarterback in New England, to Denver. Cutler has said he is not bothered by the trade proposal itself, but how McDaniels has misled him.

McDaniels has said the Broncos merely listened to offers submitted from other teams, as they do for all players.

At this point, the Broncos are not entertaining the idea of trading Cutler.



I really don't know what the hell McDaniels is saying, but he needs to cut it the hell out. Jay needs to stay a Bronco. They need to get this shit resolved. It's just getting annoying now.

SoCalImport
03-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Oh, to be a fly on the wall...

scott.475
03-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Wow, I am really p****d at the Broncos right now. I wonder how many other players McD is going to alienate once he is done with Cutler. So now we are going to be starting Simms? My gosh, the Bolts domination of us will continue for years to come.

I have always been pleased with Pat, but he has really blown it this time around. At this point I have NO confidence in McD or Xanders.

McDaniels: "I'm the boss!!! ME ME ME! That is why! Because I said so! I'm the boss!!!" He is a disaster. If he can win, I will be forgiving, but at this point I have no faith in him.

Pat needs to grab McD by the neck and tell him to keep his d**n mouth shut. There is just no way this is ALL Jay's fault, I am absolutely not buying it.

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 11:51 AM
Get Cutler out of Denver before he destroys this entire team and organization. Bring in somebody that is willing to play football that doesn't has little hurt feelings like a kid and let's get ready for the 2009 season.

McDaniels can teach somebody how to play the system and knows how to act like an adult. Just get rid of him and get somebody else in here. This stuff has gone beyond stupid.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 11:54 AM
McDaniels is the coach, Cutler is the player. If Cutler is going to be a douche about what McDaniels has to say about him, the situation here and his vision for the team moving forward -- that is not McDaniels' fault. Cutler can take a hike for all I care for. Remember, he doesn't play for the coaches -- he plays for his teammates. All right then Jay, put your money where your mouth is and show up tomorrow. God, what a bitch.

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 11:54 AM
Wow, I am really p****d at the Broncos right now. I wonder how many other players McD is going to alienate once he is done with Cutler. So now we are going to be starting Simms? My gosh, the Bolts domination of us will continue for years to come.

I have always been pleased with Pat, but he has really blown it this time around. At this point I have NO confidence in McD or Xanders.

McDaniels: "I'm the boss!!! ME ME ME! That is why! Because I said so! I'm the boss!!!" He is a disaster. If he can win, I will be forgiving, but at this point I have no faith in him.

Pat needs to grab McD by the neck and tell him to keep his d**n mouth shut. There is just no way this is ALL Jay's fault, I am absolutely not buying it.

I wonder how many players Cutler is alienating by being a snot nose little punk. Last I knew McDaniels is Cutlers boss.

Pat needs to grab Jay by neck and tell him to grow up. You have it all confused.

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 11:55 AM
McDaniels is the coach, Cutler is the player. If Cutler is going to be a douche about what McDaniels has to say about him, the situation here and his vision for the team moving forward -- that is not McDaniels' fault. Cutler can take a hike for all I care for. Remember, he doesn't play for the coaches -- he plays for his teammates. All right then Jay, put your money where your mouth is and show up tomorrow. God, what a bitch.

Amen!! Rightfully said. Cutler is a little bitch.

claymore
03-15-2009, 11:55 AM
McDaniels Is either a Genius or an Idiot. Im not sure which at this point. But With the Paxton signing, getting rid of the Goodmans, and pissing of the best player we have... It's leaning towards him being an idiot.

jrelway
03-15-2009, 11:57 AM
i wonder who these "sources" are anyways. cant a reporter just come out and say sources close to jay say hes gay and just doesnt like football anymore.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 11:58 AM
Why do people still act as if the Goodman's were the brains behind our drafts? Goodman was with the organization when the Broncos were doing shitty drafting in a large player personnel and scouting role; the nepotism allowed by Shanahan and Bowlen allowed for him to hire on his son after he was done doing shit in Florida. If people want to look at the facts, they might want to point out how retarded Jim Goodman was for saying he "discovered" Brandon Marshall at the Hula Bowl. ****. Nobody has a leg to stand on in the scenario of giving the recent draft successes to the Goodman's. It is ridiculous.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 12:01 PM
"According to a source close to Cutler, the quarterback and McDaniel's exchanged words during a one-on-one meeting Saturday.."

Note there is no source from the broncos whining to the press..

Most likely someone with an agenda here stirring up the crap..

Either an agent, a reporter that has a hardon for Josh.. both with agendas..

Follow the money here folks.. it is always about money..

Shame on some of you that automatically blame the HC because of a man love for jay/mikey..

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:03 PM
I am beginning to like JRWIZ more and more every day. We have never agreed so much. For posts like that JR, I'd pick up your tab fo sho.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:03 PM
Why do people still act as if the Goodman's were the brains behind our drafts? Goodman was with the organization when the Broncos were doing shitty drafting in a large player personnel and scouting role; the nepotism allowed by Shanahan and Bowlen allowed for him to hire on his son after he was done doing shit in Florida. If people want to look at the facts, they might want to point out how retarded Jim Goodman was for saying he "discovered" Brandon Marshall at the Hula Bowl. ****. Nobody has a leg to stand on in the scenario of giving the recent draft successes to the Goodman's. It is ridiculous.
So you think Xanders deserves the credit?

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:06 PM
So you think Xanders deserves the credit?

Um, no? There are near a dozen scouts on in Denver's player personnel department; all of which are assigned certain areas of the country. Some of them overlap. Along with the scouting information they get on their own behalf, all-teams (besides the Redskins and Bills to my knowledge) subscribe and get information from professional scouting services as well. Coupling all that information in a groupthink effort is how most teams, including the Broncos come to their decision making.

Saying that the Goodman's were the brains behind getting players like Cutler, Marshall, Dumervil, Harris, Clady, Royal and our other success are just plain silly. A part of the brain? Sure. Not the sole reason. People need to understand that.

topscribe
03-15-2009, 12:07 PM
It's really beyond me why people are taking sides at this point. (I know . . . I
made my judgmental comments, too, which shows I can be an idiot in my own
right.) We don't have a clue as to what has come down, when, and how, with
all the contradictory rumors flying about.

I do have my suspicions:

1. McDaniels has a deficiency of people skills.
2. Cutler has a thinner skin than he should have for being in professional sports.
3. The whole situation might instantly improve with the disappearance of Bus Cook.

But these are only suspicions. Meanwhile, here are my private hopes:

1. McDaniels is a rousing success, the defense improves dramatically, and McD leads us to the Super Bowl
2. Cutler ultimately wins 3 SBs, gets a bust at Canton, and enters the G.O.A.T. controversy . . . as a Denver Bronco.
3. Bus Cook does indeed disappear.

Realistically, let's just hope that wiser heads prevail.

-----

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:07 PM
"According to a source close to Cutler, the quarterback and McDaniel's exchanged words during a one-on-one meeting Saturday.."

Note there is no source from the broncos whining to the press..

Most likely someone with an agenda here stirring up the crap..

Either an agent, a reporter that has a hardon for Josh.. both with agendas..

Follow the money here folks.. it is always about money..

Shame on some of you that automatically blame the HC because of a man love for jay/mikey..Its not a man love. This kind of shit just doesnt happen during the normal transition of Head Coaches.

We do not know what caused all of this, but there is one thing different. McDaniels.

BTW, Cutler hasnt been quoted as saying anything bad. Its all these "sources".

At the very least our Front office hasnt been honest, and upfront about all of this. It seems like a pretty easy thing to fix, and them not putting this to rest earlier has caused all the follow on drama.

Buff
03-15-2009, 12:08 PM
"According to a source close to Cutler, the quarterback and McDaniel's exchanged words during a one-on-one meeting Saturday.."

Note there is no source from the broncos whining to the press..

Most likely someone with an agenda here stirring up the crap..

Either an agent, a reporter that has a hardon for Josh.. both with agendas..

Follow the money here folks.. it is always about money..

Shame on some of you that automatically blame the HC because of a man love for jay/mikey..

The $$ part of it is dead on. It all boils down to a sense of entitlement on Jay's end. Otherwise, why not just swallow your pride and move on? Why all the grandstanding with the leaks to the media? Selling his houses etc. etc.

He's paid well, we need a QB, and he's under contract. That should be the end of the conversation.

gregbroncs
03-15-2009, 12:10 PM
Good god this drama is getting pathetic. If Cutler does not show up on Monday I will have lost all respect for him. At that point he will look like a whinny little brat that needs to grow up.

I have tried to stay neutral for the most part but come on. You got your feeling's hurt grow up and act like your not 12. That goes for both of them.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:10 PM
Um, no? There are near a dozen scouts on in Denver's player personnel department; all of which are assigned certain areas of the country. Some of them overlap. Along with the scouting information they get on their own behalf, all-teams (besides the Redskins and Bills to my knowledge) subscribe and get information from professional scouting services as well. Coupling all that information in a groupthink effort is how most teams, including the Broncos come to their decision making.

Saying that the Goodman's were the brains behind getting players like Cutler, Marshall, Dumervil, Harris, Clady, Royal and our other success are just plain silly. A part of the brain? Sure. Not the sole reason. People need to understand that.
I understand all of that. But Jim Goodman was in charge of scouting during that, and I think he deserves credit.

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 12:11 PM
It's really beyond me why people are taking sides at this point. (I know . . . I
made my judgmental comments, too, which shows I can be an idiot in my own
right.) We don't have a clue as to what has come down, when, and how, with
all the contradictory rumors flying about.

I do have my suspicions:

1. McDaniels has a deficiency of people skills.
2. Cutler has a thinner skin than he should have for being in professional sports.
3. The whole situation might instantly improve with the disappearance of Bus Cook.

But these are only suspicions. Meanwhile, here are my private hopes:

1. McDaniels is a rousing success, the defense improves dramatically, and McD leads us to the Super Bowl
2. Cutler ultimately wins 3 SBs, gets a bust at Canton, and enters the G.O.A.T. controversy . . . as a Denver Bronco.
3. Bus Cook does indeed disappear.

Realistically, let's just hope that wiser heads prevail.

-----

If Cutler is being played by his agent, then Jay is the idiot, not the agent. He's 25 years old and can make his own decisions and can dump his agent at any time. The agent should be working for the player, not the other way around. Jay is a big boy and knows what he wants. He's playing this thing out cause his little feelings are hurt. It all boils down to a 25 year old making his own decisions for himself.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:12 PM
I understand all of that. But Jim Goodman was in charge of scouting during that, and I think he deserves credit.

Not all of it, sorry babe.

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 12:12 PM
The $$ part of it is dead on. It all boils down to a sense of entitlement on Jay's end. Otherwise, why not just swallow your pride and move on? Why all the grandstanding with the leaks to the media? Selling his houses etc. etc.

He's paid well, we need a QB, and he's under contract. That should be the end of the conversation.

You're right, we need a QB. We don't need Cutler though.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 12:14 PM
... the nepotism allowed by Shanahan and Bowlen allowed for him to hire on his son after he was done doing shit in Florida. Some things never change. Don't forget that McTeenager has hired his kid brother, whose football coaching experience consists of being an assistant HS coach, to be on the coaching staff. So it seems like nepotism wasn't limited to the Shanahan regime.

Personally, I think it's getting to the point that all 4 of them (Cutler, McDaniels, Bowlen, and Cook) need to go away for the sake of the organization.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:14 PM
Not all of it, sorry babe.

No shit.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:15 PM
You're right, we need a QB. We don't need Cutler though.

http://beargoggleson.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/chris_simms.jpg

He could be "the one."

topscribe
03-15-2009, 12:15 PM
If Cutler is being played by his agent, then Jay is the idiot, not the agent. He's 25 years old and can make his own decisions and can dump his agent at any time. The agent should be working for the player, not the other way around. Jay is a big boy and knows what he wants. He's playing this thing out cause his little feelings are hurt. It all boils down to a 25 year old making his own decisions for himself.

Let the side-taking resume . . . :coffee:

-----

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:16 PM
Some things never change. Don't forget that McTeenager has hired his kid brother, whose football coaching experience consists of being an assistant HS coach, to be on the coaching staff. So it seems like nepotism wasn't limited to the Shanahan regime.

Personally, I think it's getting to the point that all 4 of them (Cutler, McDaniels, Bowlen, and Cook) need to go away for the sake of the organization.

Yeah, when McDaniels hired on his little brother I puked in my mouth. I hate nepotism.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 12:16 PM
http://beargoggleson.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/chris_simms.jpg

He could be "the one."
No thanks. The last one dubbed "The One" isn't working out so great.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:16 PM
http://beargoggleson.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/chris_simms.jpg

He could be "the one."

We would draft top 5 next year.

topscribe
03-15-2009, 12:18 PM
We would draft top 5 next year.

And maybe a couple years after that . . .

-----

spikerman
03-15-2009, 12:18 PM
I went to a UT game a few years ago when Chris Simms was the starting QB and before he got replaced midway through the 2nd quarter he was 5-6 for 7 yards. We already saw that movie when it starred Brian Griese.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 12:19 PM
Hopefully what is stated in the last paragraph here is accurate

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3981792

DENVER -- The Denver Broncos insist quarterback Jay Cutler isn't on the market. His and his parents' houses near Denver, though, are another matter.

Cutler has put his 7,516-square-foot, four-bedroom, seven-bath home in Parker up for sale for $2 million. A listing on real estate Web site REcolorado.com shows the agent as Fuller Sotheby's International Realty.

According to local reports, Cutler's parents have also put up for sale their home in the town of Elizabeth, about two miles from the house he is selling. Theirs is listed at $835,000.

Douglas County property records show Cutler paid $1.34 million for his house in August 2006.

Cutler still has a condo in downtown Denver along with his offseason home in Nashville, Tenn.

The Pro Bowl quarterback and new coach Josh McDaniels are in a dispute over attempts to trade him two weeks ago.

On Saturday, Cutler was a no-show at a fundraiser at Invesco Field, and team spokesman Patrick Smyth said the quarterback didn't attend because he didn't want to distract from the evening. The fundraiser was in honor of Broncos longtime trainer Steve Antonopulos and raised money to fight children's' diseases.

According to The Denver Post, Cutler and McDaniels met Saturday, and the "one-one-one" talk ended without any resolutions.

"There was a brief meeting Saturday morning and we agreed to regroup and continue to have conversations," a Broncos spokesman told the newspaper Sunday morning.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:19 PM
I went to a UT game a few years ago when Chris Simms was the starting QB and before he got replaced midway through the 2nd quarter he was 5-6 for 7 yards. We already saw that movie when it starred Brian Griese.

I watched him here in Tampa. Every QB that replaced him excelled.

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 12:19 PM
Let the side-taking resume . . . :coffee:

-----

There's only one side in this and it isn't Cutlers, period. McDaniels can discuss a trade with anybody for any player at any time. That's his right, that's his decision. Jay is a player that needs to understand the business side of it as well. The trade never went through and nothing happened. This whole ordeal could of ended weeks ago. Cutler has prolonged it, not McDaniels. Wake up!!

Jay could of came out and said, weeks ago, you know they discussed a trade, it never worked, and I'm the Broncos QB. We're going to prepare like it never happened and use it as motivation. PERIOD!!!!!!

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:20 PM
Good, I hope we draft in the top five next year. I also hope people keep on putting up false dilemmas that if we get rid of Jay Cutler, it is for certain that we're gonna suck balls. Keep it up. Even with Cutler, this team probably is going to be stinky. Just think, if we're drafting in the top five next year -- we can get Sam Bradford. BOOMA SOONA.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 12:20 PM
I watched him here in Tampa. Every QB that replaced him excelled.So the key is who the Broncos bring in as the "backup" :D

Buff
03-15-2009, 12:21 PM
You're right, we need a QB. We don't need Cutler though.

Starting QB's are not a dime a dozen. No one player is more important than the team, but they better have a backup plan if they're prepared to take a hard line.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 12:21 PM
Good, I hope we draft in the top five next year. I also hope people keep on putting up false dilemmas that if we get rid of Jay Cutler, it is for certain that we're gonna suck balls. Keep it up. Even with Cutler, this team probably is going to be stinky. Just think, if we're drafting in the top five next year -- we can get Sam Bradford. BOOMA SOONA.I think there's a new NFL rule that a player can't be drafted until he's old enough to shave.

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 12:22 PM
Starting QB's are not a dime a dozen. No one player is more important than the team, but they better have a backup plan if they're prepared to take a hard line.

Exactly. I hope they have some options. Retread QB's aren't an option.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:23 PM
There's only one side in this and it isn't Cutlers, period. McDaniels can discuss a trade with anybody for any player at any time. That's his right, that's his decision. Jay is a player that needs to understand the business side of it as well. The trade never went through and nothing happened. This whole ordeal could of ended weeks ago. Cutler has prolonged it, not McDaniels. Wake up!!

Jay could of came out and said, weeks ago, you know they discussed a trade, it never worked, and I'm the Broncos QB. We're going to prepare like it never happened and use it as motivation. PERIOD!!!!!!

And that makes sense. If Cutler is as pissed as "sources" say.... Then something else is being said in these meetings.

If Cutler is a douche, he wont go to the meeting tomorrow and none of the players will support him.

If McDaniels is being the douche, than the players will support Cutler, and not attend or they will speak in defense of Cutler.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:26 PM
Good, I hope we draft in the top five next year. I also hope people keep on putting up false dilemmas that if we get rid of Jay Cutler, it is for certain that we're gonna suck balls. Keep it up. Even with Cutler, this team probably is going to be stinky. Just think, if we're drafting in the top five next year -- we can get Sam Bradford. BOOMA SOONA.

Cutler is a known good. You want him to trade for unknown draft picks. No QB, and more rookies. That is a hell of a gamble that jsut doesnt make any sense.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:26 PM
I think there's a new NFL rule that a player can't be drafted until he's old enough to shave.

Well, there are gonna be a lot of boss hogs on the defensive line eligible for the draft next year. Get excited.

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 12:26 PM
And that makes sense. If Cutler is as pissed as "sources" say.... Then something else is being said in these meetings.

If Cutler is a douche, he wont go to the meeting tomorrow and none of the players will support him.

If McDaniels is being the douche, than the players will support Cutler, and not attend or they will speak in defense of Cutler.

What's that ol saying about sticks and stones? Grow up Jay, you are replaceable. I'm sure we can find another QB that can be at the top of the league in interceptions.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:28 PM
Cutler is a known good. You want him to trade for unknown draft picks. No QB, and more rookies. That is a hell of a gamble that jsut doesnt make any sense.

Makes sense if Cutler is pissed off to the point where he isn't interested in playing for the team or re-signing for the team. I want the best value for Cutler. If it is getting a ton of draft picks, it is getting a ton of draft picks. Cutler being a known commodity only helps us in compensation. Trading Cutler can make sense under the right scenario, I think the aforementioned is a good qualifier.

topscribe
03-15-2009, 12:29 PM
There's only one side in this and it isn't Cutlers, period. McDaniels can discuss a trade with anybody for any player at any time. That's his right, that's his decision. Jay is a player that needs to understand the business side of it as well. The trade never went through and nothing happened. This whole ordeal could of ended weeks ago. Cutler has prolonged it, not McDaniels. Wake up!!

Jay could of came out and said, weeks ago, you know they discussed a trade, it never worked, and I'm the Broncos QB. We're going to prepare like it never happened and use it as motivation. PERIOD!!!!!!

As I mentioned, you don't know what is going on behind closed doors.

But, whatever. Carry on . . . :whoknows:

-----

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 12:30 PM
Niner, were you in the room?

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:31 PM
What's that ol saying about sticks and stones? Grow up Jay, you are replaceable. I'm sure we can find another QB that can be at the top of the league in interceptions.

Who is more immature, the star athlete, or the Rookie coach?

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:32 PM
As I mentioned, you don't know what is going on behind closed doors.

But, whatever. Carry on . . . :whoknows:

-----

Yeah, and either do you -- but you continue to make indictments on McDaniels and his communications skills every chance you get -- as if you're privy to how he actually goes about his job. Pot. . . meet kettle.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:32 PM
Makes sense if Cutler is pissed off to the point where he isn't interested in playing for the team or re-signing for the team. I want the best value for Cutler. If it is getting a ton of draft picks, it is getting a ton of draft picks. Cutler being a known commodity only helps us in compensation. Trading Cutler can make sense under the right scenario, I think the aforementioned is a good qualifier.

If thats the case I agree. But I think this team would be better off losing McDaniels than losing Cutler.

topscribe
03-15-2009, 12:33 PM
Yeah, and either do you -- but you continue to make indictments on McDaniels and his communications skills every chance you get -- as if you're privy to how he actually goes about his job. Pot. . . meet kettle.

I knew it was only a matter of time before you made me the topic. :coffee:

-----

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 12:34 PM
Its not a man love. This kind of shit just doesnt happen during the normal transition of Head Coaches.

We do not know what caused all of this, but there is one thing different. McDaniels.

BTW, Cutler hasnt been quoted as saying anything bad. Its all these "sources".

At the very least our Front office hasnt been honest, and upfront about all of this. It seems like a pretty easy thing to fix, and them not putting this to rest earlier has caused all the follow on drama.

Clay it has to be something more than what you are saying..

Every change in coaching is traumatic to someone.. In this case IMO jay was allowed to do just about what he wanted on the field and I'd be surprised if the QB coach, OC or mikey ever called him out of anything.. If they did I'd guess it was not a heavy duty chewing out like mikey used to do with his other QB's..

jay is irrational here.. whether Josh talked to the whole world about trading him whether he started the talks or not it MATTERS NOT ONE DAMNED bit..

the facts of life are PAT the owner of the team hired Josh to run the team..

jay reports to Josh not the other way around.. that is how it is on ALL football teams.. well maybe not vandy:D

jay did himself not favors by going to the press on this and NOT TAKING PATS calls..

How can Pat do anything other if jay is talking to his teammates, agent and the press and not Pat. DOUBLE DUMB on jays part..

Pats silence in this matter speaks volumes about who he is backing in this race..

Look I can dig it if you really like jay I was starting to until he turned into an EMO.. I can understand like mikey at one time I thought he walked on water till I figured out he did not..

But to take a losers side on this is not healthy.. and I think everyone now knows who the loser is..

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 12:35 PM
Who is more immature, the star athlete, or the Rookie coach?

The athlete, notice I left out "Star".

Bronco9798
03-15-2009, 12:36 PM
Niner, were you in the room?

You don't have to be to figure this one out Beef. Just takes a little common sense.

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 12:38 PM
You don't have to be to figure this one out Beef. Just takes a little common sense.

Like knowing your players.

Dean
03-15-2009, 12:45 PM
Why do people still act as if the Goodman's were the brains behind our drafts? Goodman was with the organization when the Broncos were doing shitty drafting in a large player personnel and scouting role; the nepotism allowed by Shanahan and Bowlen allowed for him to hire on his son after he was done doing shit in Florida. If people want to look at the facts, they might want to point out how retarded Jim Goodman was for saying he "discovered" Brandon Marshall at the Hula Bowl. ****. Nobody has a leg to stand on in the scenario of giving the recent draft successes to the Goodman's. It is ridiculous.

I would think that Mike Shanahan should know who the brains behind those drafts were. Here is what he had to say.


Published on 12/31/2008 at Wed Dec 31 16:01.
Tagged: Denver Broncos,Head Coach,Mike Shanahan,Pat Bowlen.

Mike Shanahan Press Conference Transcript
Posted Wed Dec 31st by Kyle
Opening statement

“Being here 21 years, I have a lot of people to thank so you are going to have to bear with me and the people I do miss, please, it wasn’t intentional. Joe Ellis, obviously our CEO… Joe, thank you for everything you have done for me. Rich Slivka our general counsel, Jim Barlow-VP of finance, Dave Abrams-VP of security, Rich Tuten, Russ Trainor, we just got him in from the technology department. Russ, you have done a great job since you have been here.

Jim Goodman, Jeff Goodman and Brian Xanders. Jim (Goodman) is the VP of football operations and is a very good friend. He has done a great job the last few drafts. He gets all the credit for those drafts. He has done and unbelievable job.

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It's hard to misconstrue the statement in bold.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 12:45 PM
I wonder how many of the many free agents the Broncos have signed this off-season are now regretting their choice.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 12:45 PM
Cutler is a known good. You want him to trade for unknown draft picks. No QB, and more rookies. That is a hell of a gamble that jsut doesnt make any sense.

if it is determined your QB is a head case and there seems to be more evidence piling up in this direction every minute..

What do you really want to do .. have a head case on the field in a big game..

or one that may not have as strong an arm with a great head on his shoulders..



Like knowing your players.

or knowing your HC and owner..

spikerman
03-15-2009, 12:47 PM
What's troubling is that Pat Bowlen's silence in all of this is deafening.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 12:49 PM
What's troubling is that Pat Bowlen's silence in all of this is deafening.


I think it speak volumes that jay is a punk and he is backing Josh his new HC..

Did jay return Pats calls? kind a sealed his own fate on this one..

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:50 PM
Clay it has to be something more than what you are saying..

Every change in coaching is traumatic to someone.. In this case IMO jay was allowed to do just about what he wanted on the field and I'd be surprised if the QB coach, OC or mikey ever called him out of anything.. If they did I'd guess it was not a heavy duty chewing out like mikey used to do with his other QB's..

jay is irrational here.. whether Josh talked to the whole world about trading him whether he started the talks or not it MATTERS NOT ONE DAMNED bit..

the facts of life are PAT the owner of the team hired Josh to run the team..

jay reports to Josh not the other way around.. that is how it is on ALL football teams.. well maybe not vandy:D

jay did himself not favors by going to the press on this and NOT TAKING PATS calls..

How can Pat do anything other if jay is talking to his teammates, agent and the press and not Pat. DOUBLE DUMB on jays part..

Pats silence in this matter speaks volumes about who he is backing in this race..

Look I can dig it if you really like jay I was starting to until he turned into an EMO.. I can understand like mikey at one time I thought he walked on water till I figured out he did not..

But to take a losers side on this is not healthy.. and I think everyone now knows who the loser is..
Pat hasnt openly supported anyone. But he might have to.
McDaniels is easier to replace than Cutler, both logistically and financially.

Support whoever you want, but we still dont know whats been said, or done.

I dislike Mcdaniels not only for the Cutler thing but for Lonnie Paxton, and the Goodmans.

McDaniels has only made me scratch my head and wonder WTF he is doing.

topscribe
03-15-2009, 12:50 PM
0
or knowing your HC and owner..

As a manager, I always considered that employee relations began with me.

That is because I was taught that it was the accepted protocol in employee relations . . .

-----

spikerman
03-15-2009, 12:50 PM
I think it speak volumes that jay is a punk and he is backing Josh his new HC..

Did jay return Pats calls? kind a sealed his own fate on this one..I'm not entirely sure what it says except that he doesn't seem to be "in charge" like he said he was going to be.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:53 PM
if it is determined your QB is a head case and there seems to be more evidence piling up in this direction every minute..

What do you really want to do .. have a head case on the field in a big game..

or one that may not have as strong an arm with a great head on his shoulders..

Whos the head case though, Cutler or Mcdaniels? McDaniels has done nothing but cause controversy since he has been here.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:53 PM
I knew it was only a matter of time before you made me the topic. :coffee:

-----

Didn't make you the topic. You criticized a poster for taking McDaniels' side and being against Cutler, and stated he didn't know what was going on behind closed doors. I pointed out the obvious that you don't either, so questioning McDaniels' communication skills and his effectiveness in that regard is just as ridiculous. For the obvious reasons and many more. Try again, but I'm not here to start anything.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:55 PM
I think it speak volumes that jay is a punk and he is backing Josh his new HC..

Did jay return Pats calls? kind a sealed his own fate on this one..

We dont know if he did or he didnt. For all we know Jay and Pat talk every day.

Northman
03-15-2009, 12:56 PM
I guess we will find out tomorrow.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 12:56 PM
It's over and the franchise will be less for it. Cutler is gone and it just a matter of time before he traded.

I am so freaking disappointed at this point I feel like Jets fan.

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:57 PM
I guess we will find out tomorrow.

Hopefully they laugh at some press conference about this whole thing. But the players attitude and attendance speaks volumes on where the loyalties are.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 12:57 PM
I guess we will find out tomorrow.

But it doesn't end there Northman. When Cutler is traded, we'll be talking about it for years and years. Five years from now (before I die) we'll still be talking about it! "Damn youse McDaniels, it's all youse faults!"

claymore
03-15-2009, 12:57 PM
It's over and the franchise will be less for it. Cutler is gone and it just a matter of time before he traded.

I am so freaking disappointed at this point I feel like Jets fan.

Its amateur hour at the very least.

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 12:59 PM
Whos the head case though, Cutler or Mcdaniels? McDaniels has done nothing but cause controversy since he has been here.

All the controversy involves Cutler. Plus Cutler is the only one going to the media over all of it. My guess is that means Cutler is the head case. You Know who else like to go to the media instead of keeping it behind closed doors? The biggest head case of them all Terrell Owens. Maybe Jay's nickname should be Baby T.O. instead of Brandon.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 01:00 PM
All the controversy involves Cutler. Actually all of the controversy involves Cutler and McDaniels

topscribe
03-15-2009, 01:00 PM
Didn't make you the topic. You criticized a poster for taking McDaniels' side and being against Cutler, and stated he didn't know what was going on behind closed doors. I pointed out the obvious that you don't either, so questioning McDaniels' communication skills and his effectiveness in that regard is just as ridiculous. For the obvious reasons and many more. Try again, but I'm not here to start anything.

I would appreciate it if you would just ignore my posts, as I usually do yours.

TIA

P.S. Dream, please stop using the MHS to bait and flame me.

-----

elsid13
03-15-2009, 01:01 PM
Its amateur hour at the very least.

It been amateur hour since Bowlen released Goodman. I can understand he felt the need to release Shanahan, things were getting sloppy at the end, and 14 years doing the same thing is problem. But this is a joke, this should have never never gotten to this point. **** them all.

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 01:02 PM
Actually all of the controversy involves Cutler and McDaniels

Obviously but if McDaniels was causing all sorts of controversy there would also be McDaniels and Brandon, Mcdaniels and champ. I haven't seen any other players with a problem with him.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 01:03 PM
Pat hasnt openly supported anyone. But he might have to.
McDaniels is easier to replace than Cutler, both logistically and financially.

Support whoever you want, but we still dont know whats been said, or done.

I dislike Mcdaniels not only for the Cutler thing but for Lonnie Paxton, and the Goodmans.

McDaniels has only made me scratch my head and wonder WTF he is doing.


hey the only reason he brought Paxton in was IMO he wanted another NE team type player here to "salt the team".. I liked leach alot thought he was a class player.. I wish him well on his career..

Other than that I think everything they have done so far seems to be a point in the right direction..

As for the Goodman's I think that was more a Pat deal than Josh.. but do not know for sure..

In my previous profession I had to go into a lot of locations and be the clean up manager.. I had to lay down the law. Give them the facts of life, straighten out the problems and get them back to profitability..

So I can see from a management point of view what the issues are here..

elsid13
03-15-2009, 01:04 PM
Obviously but if McDaniels was causing all sorts of controversy there would also be McDaniels and Brandon, Mcdaniels and champ. I haven't seen any other players with a problem with him.

Miss the little news bit about Stokely being pissed about losing Leach? Just because no one has said anything doesn't mean there aren't things going on behind doors at Dove Valley.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 01:07 PM
I'm not entirely sure what it says except that he doesn't seem to be "in charge" like he said he was going to be.

one can be in charge but not be in every conversation..

A good owner or manager hires someone to do the job and allows them to do so..

Unless he is displeased like he was with mikey at the end that is his style..

When Pat is unhappy we will here from him untill then Josh and Xman speak for him..

it is time that jay figured that out.

EMB6903
03-15-2009, 01:08 PM
at some point this has to be on Mcdaniels too.... what could make Cutler so upset over this situation?

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:09 PM
Miss the little news bit about Stokely being pissed about losing Leach? Just because no one has said anything doesn't mean there aren't things going on behind doors at Dove Valley.

Could care less if Brandon Stokley is "pissed" that we cut Mike Leach. Boo-*******-hoo.

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 01:11 PM
Miss the little news bit about Stokely being pissed about losing Leach? Just because no one has said anything doesn't mean there aren't things going on behind doors at Dove Valley.

Players get pissed about other players getting cut all the time. Most players get over it. Maybe they all love McDaniels, you have no clue what goes on behind those closed doors. It's all speculation on all our parts.

All I know is that all evidence so far points to Jay handling this like a bitch.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 01:11 PM
Miss the little news bit about Stokely being pissed about losing Leach? Just because no one has said anything doesn't mean there aren't things going on behind doors at Dove Valley.
You beat me to it! I was looking for the article to post it.

topscribe
03-15-2009, 01:11 PM
at some point this has to be on Mcdaniels too.... what could make Cutler so upset over this situation?

That is my question.

As I mentioned, we don't know what is going on. Maybe Cutler is thin-skinned,
but likely not without provocation . . .

-----

Northman
03-15-2009, 01:11 PM
But it doesn't end there Northman. When Cutler is traded, we'll be talking about it for years and years. Five years from now (before I die) we'll still be talking about it! "Damn youse McDaniels, it's all youse faults!"

Oh absolutely. A lot of people will even go back and say the turning point of this franchise was the benching of Jake Plummer. Im sure there will be those that say rather than draft Cutler we should of drafted a defensive player.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 01:12 PM
Players get pissed about other players getting cut all the time. Most players get over it. Maybe they all love McDaniels, you have no clue what goes on behind those closed doors. It's all speculation on all our parts.

All I know is that all evidence so far points to Jay handling this like a bitch.
The point was that you said that no other players had a problem with the way McD was handling things. Elsid just pointed out that there are other players who are mystified by what they're doing.

ChairmanBron
03-15-2009, 01:12 PM
My two cents..

Cutler – replaced Plummer
Plummer – supposed to replace Sims in Tampa
Sims – may replace Cutler.


WTF - Third teamer replacing a First Teamer?

Princess Jay and McScrewUp better together hammer out their differences and stop acting like Bitches.

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 01:13 PM
Oh absolutely. A lot of people will even go back and say the turning point of this franchise was the benching of Jake Plummer. Im sure there will be those that say rather than draft Cutler we should of drafted a defensive player.

People who do that kinda shit are gay.

claymore
03-15-2009, 01:15 PM
All the controversy involves Cutler. Plus Cutler is the only one going to the media over all of it. My guess is that means Cutler is the head case. You Know who else like to go to the media instead of keeping it behind closed doors? The biggest head case of them all Terrell Owens. Maybe Jay's nickname should be Baby T.O. instead of Brandon.Cutler hasnt commented other than the first "Im Shocked" statements.
If McDaniels made a better effort squashing this maybe I could agree. But he hasnt, he has handled every situation he has dealt with poorly. Except Dawkins 5 year contract. :rolleyes:


Obviously but if McDaniels was causing all sorts of controversy there would also be McDaniels and Brandon, Mcdaniels and champ. I haven't seen any other players with a problem with him.

Marshall doesnt have a leg to stand on. He has lost millions this offseason. The only other players that anyone cares if we trade or not is Clady and Royal.

hey the only reason he brought Paxton in was IMO he wanted another NE team type player here to "salt the team".. I liked leach alot thought he was a class player.. I wish him well on his career..

Other than that I think everything they have done so far seems to be a point in the right direction..

As for the Goodman's I think that was more a Pat deal than Josh.. but do not know for sure..

In my previous profession I had to go into a lot of locations and be the clean up manager.. I had to lay down the law. Give them the facts of life, straighten out the problems and get them back to profitability..

So I can see from a management point of view what the issues are here..If I try to salt a team with people I know. Long Snapper is not where I start. Thats just a ridiculous signing and you know it!

2 Areas we had zero issues with. Long Snapper and QB........

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:15 PM
Foofachooskie, hindsight is 20/20. Remember that. (Therefore hindsight is gay.)

claymore
03-15-2009, 01:17 PM
Could care less if Brandon Stokley is "pissed" that we cut Mike Leach. Boo-*******-hoo.

Do you like any of the Broncos? Or just Xanders and McDaniels?

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:17 PM
You don't know that we didn't have issues there, Claymore. Perhaps McDaniels thought that Mike Leach was losing a step. If that is the case, he has the right to get rid of him and do whatever it takes to improve the team. You might think being a long snapper is not the coolest position or important, but it certainly is. Paxton is a Hall of Fame caliber long snapper. If you don't think he gets in on the first ballot upon retirement, you aren't thinking.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:18 PM
Do you like any of the Broncos? Or just Xanders and McDaniels?

I really like Brett Favre.

Northman
03-15-2009, 01:19 PM
at some point this has to be on Mcdaniels too.... what could make Cutler so upset over this situation?

Initially? Absolutely. But its time to move forward.

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 01:19 PM
The point was that you said that no other players had a problem with the way McD was handling things. Elsid just pointed out that there are other players who are mystified by what they're doing.

You have one player who said he was pissed about Leach getting cut. I am sure more players were pissed too. That's what happens when your friend gets cut. That does not mean that these players hate McDaniels or that he has no people skills. Everyone keeps saying he has no people skills. Based off of what?

So he criticized Jay's play over the phone. Do any of you know how that conversation went down? Some ways this could be bad and some ways it is fine. Who knows how it went down. Jay's feelings obviously are pretty sensitive so maybe he interpreted it all wrong.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 01:19 PM
Whos the head case though, Cutler or Mcdaniels? McDaniels has done nothing but cause controversy since he has been here.


Did Josh step into a perfect situation.. like Tomlin did NO.. He walked into a Katrina on the defensive side of the LOS as well as the ST..

About the only thing that was worth a shit was the offense being QB'd by what appears to most rational folks as we speak a troubled prima donna..

it started with his whining about:


not being notified that mikey was going to be replaced..

continued with his wanting to be involved in choosing an new HC...

reportedly whining about wanting to be traded when bates left..

going ballistic about being on the trading block

whining about Josh lying to him

not returning calls form Pat

refusing to come to DEN for a face to face sit down

not returning calls from Dove Valley...

talking to the reporters before getting the facts..

placing houses for sale in a down market...


I'm sure there are an half dozen other irrational things..

the only thing I fault Josh in doing is signing a LS and not making the deal for jay..

claymore
03-15-2009, 01:20 PM
You don't know that we didn't have issues there, Claymore. Perhaps McDaniels thought that Mike Leach was losing a step. If that is the case, he has the right to get rid of him and do whatever it takes to improve the team. You might think being a long snapper is not the coolest position or important, but it certainly is. Paxton is a Hall of Fame caliber long snapper. If you don't think he gets in on the first ballot upon retirement, you aren't thinking.
LMAO.....

I really like Brett Favre.
Brett couldnt hold Jay's jock.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 01:22 PM
We don't know if he did or he didn't. For all we know Jay and Pat talk every day.


do you really believe this comeon... your smarter than this.. are you just trying to get your post count up that is it isn't it..:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

spikerman
03-15-2009, 01:23 PM
You have one player who said he was pissed about Leach getting cut. I am sure more players were pissed too. That's what happens when your friend gets cut. That does not mean that these players hate McDaniels or that he has no people skills. Everyone keeps saying he has no people skills. Based off of what?

So he criticized Jay's play over the phone. Do any of you know how that conversation went down? Some ways this could be bad and some ways it is fine. Who knows how it went down. Jay's feelings obviously are pretty sensitive so maybe he interpreted it all wrong.
Of course, none of us know how the conversation went down, except Bief - he was in the room. I don't remember anybody criticizing McDaniels' people skills, but some of us are critical about how he handled this particular situation. As the coach, he has every right to criticize Cutler's play, but it didn't show a lot of intelligence to bring that up when they're trying to resolve personal issues.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:23 PM
Brett couldnt hold Jay's jock.

I see a lot of Brett in Jay. Battles with alcoholism, tensions with coaches, strong arm, gunslinger mentality. At this point, Jay hasn't had anyone in his family die to allow him to go crazy (like Brett did on MNF after his dad died, or when he went on a roll after his brother-in-law got smashed by an ATV) like Brett did on the field and achieve God-like status. The other difference is that Brett Favre is a healthy individual and will never have to call Liberty Medical. Brett Favre will be in the NFL Hall of Fame, Jay Cutler will be selling blood sugar level trackers down on Colfax from a vendors stand.

Be ready for that, Claymore.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 01:24 PM
Paxton is a Hall of Fame caliber long snapper. If you don't think he gets in on the first ballot upon retirement, you aren't thinking.Assuming this is a joke - that's funny stuff right there! :lol:

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 01:26 PM
Cutler hasnt commented other than the first "Im Shocked" statements.


Jr's post pretty much sums up my response to this. Action speaks louder than words and Jay's actions have been awful.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:27 PM
Assuming this is a joke - that's funny stuff right there! :lol:

Spikerman, this is as serious as I get. Lonnie Paxton is the Chuck Bednarik of our generation. We are all witnesses to history. Criticize the signing all you want, but when you see Paxton playing center and linebacker this year for the Broncos, you'll realize the genius of Josh McDaniels.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:27 PM
Jr's post pretty much sums up my response to this. Action speaks louder than words and Jay's actions have been awful.

Forgive Jay, Foochacho. He knows not what he does.

LordTrychon
03-15-2009, 01:27 PM
Spikerman, this is as serious as I get. Lonnie Paxton is the Chuck Bednarik of our generation. We are all witnesses to history. Criticize the signing all you want, but when you see Paxton playing center and linebacker this year for the Broncos, you'll realize the genius of Josh McDaniels.

Mike Leach already IS in the HOF of our hearts though...

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 01:27 PM
Jr's post pretty much sums up my response to this. Action speaks louder than words and Jay's actions have been awful.

Are you sure you want to align yourself with Jr?

topscribe
03-15-2009, 01:27 PM
Jr's post pretty much sums up my response to this. Action speaks louder than words and Jay's actions have been awful.

All we know is what the characters in this play did.

We don't have a clue as to why any of them did it . . .

-----

spikerman
03-15-2009, 01:28 PM
Jr's post pretty much sums up my response to this. Action speaks louder than words and Jay's actions have been awful.So has Broncos management's "bunker mentality".

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 01:28 PM
Of course, none of us know how the conversation went down, except Bief - he was in the room. I don't remember anybody criticizing McDaniels' people skills, but some of us are critical about how he handled this particular situation. As the coach, he has every right to criticize Cutler's play, but it didn't show a lot of intelligence to bring that up when they're trying to resolve personal issues.

Alot of people have and I'm not going to go back and find out who. But whoever has doesn't have a leg to stand on with that one.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 01:29 PM
Alot of people have and I'm not going to go back and find out who. But whoever has doesn't have a leg to stand on with that one.
They may very well have a leg to stand on. For all we know McDaniels' people skills really do suck.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:29 PM
Mike Leach already IS in the HOF of our hearts though...

Mike Leach was a loser and so was Nate Jackson. McDaniels cutting them bottom-feeders rank in the top ten moves of Denver Broncos history. If you want me to be completely honest, those were better than trading for Elway.

Northman
03-15-2009, 01:30 PM
I see a lot of Brett in Jay. Battles with alcoholism, tensions with coaches, strong arm, gunslinger mentality. At this point, Jay hasn't had anyone in his family die to allow him to go crazy (like Brett did on MNF after his dad died, or when he went on a roll after his brother-in-law got smashed by an ATV) like Brett did on the field and achieve God-like status. The other difference is that Brett Favre is a healthy individual and will never have to call Liberty Medical. Brett Favre will be in the NFL Hall of Fame, Jay Cutler will be selling blood sugar level trackers down on Colfax from a vendors stand.

Be ready for that, Claymore.



Damn dude, you sure have a way with words. :lol:

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 01:30 PM
That is my question.

As I mentioned, we don't know what is going on. Maybe Cutler is thin-skinned,
but likely not without provocation . . .

-----

and if he is do you want him as you QB during a Superbowl come on folks he is easy to get to.. cracks under pressure.. can't handle the truth.. wow think about this folks.. you want a hot head out there..


yeah I know he had a few game winning drives but also saw him when rivers was in his head too..

IMHO this kid needs to get it under control BETWEEN his ears..

claymore
03-15-2009, 01:31 PM
Did Josh step into a perfect situation.. like Tomlin did NO.. He walked into a Katrina on the defensive side of the LOS as well as the ST..

About the only thing that was worth a shit was the offense being QB'd by what appears to most rational folks as we speak a troubled prima donna..

it started with his whining about:


not being notified that mikey was going to be replaced..

continued with his wanting to be involved in choosing an new HC...

reportedly whining about wanting to be traded when bates left..

going ballistic about being on the trading block

whining about Josh lying to him

not returning calls form Pat

refusing to come to DEN for a face to face sit down

not returning calls from Dove Valley...

talking to the reporters before getting the facts..

placing houses for sale in a down market...


I'm sure there are an half dozen other irrational things..

the only thing I fault Josh in doing is signing a LS and not making the deal for jay..
The only fact in this list is highlighted. You are taking rumors and selling them as facts.

My whole point is that Jay Cutler is more valuable to us than McDaniels, and if it is a relationship that cannot be healed, axe McDaniels.

Maybe both sides are wrong, maybe one side is right...... I really dont know.

But cutler is the best thing we have going for our team at the moment.
There is no replacing him with equal or better value for the foreseeable future. And I dont want some cherry kid rookie coach coming in and ****'ing up this organization because he couldnt hold one freaking public press conference stating his loyalty to Cutler.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:31 PM
Are you sure you want to align yourself with Jr?

I'd rather align myself with JR than the JayKlan led by Claymore. That fan club is bound for disaster.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 01:31 PM
Mike Leach was a loser and so was Nate Jackson. McDaniels cutting them bottom-feeders rank in the top ten moves of Denver Broncos history. If you want me to be completely honest, those were better than trading for Elway.

Why are you sucking up? Are you applying to be McDaniels' new videographer?

LordTrychon
03-15-2009, 01:31 PM
Mike Leach was a loser and so was Nate Jackson. McDaniels cutting them bottom-feeders rank in the top ten moves of Denver Broncos history. If you want me to be completely honest, those were better than trading for Elway.

Why aren't you cut yet?

topscribe
03-15-2009, 01:31 PM
and if he is do you want him as you QB during a Superbowl come on folks he is easy to get to.. cracks under pressure.. can't handle the truth.. wow think about this folks.. you want a hot head out there..


yeah I know he had a few game winning drives but also saw him when rivers was in his head too..

IMHO this kid needs to get it under control BETWEEN his ears..

Once again, you are drawing a lot of inferences without knowing the facts . . .

-----

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 01:33 PM
Are you sure you want to align yourself with Jr?

Yes, when he is being logical about it all. Same with dream never thought I could side with vanilla ice but I have. I just don't like people who act like bitches and Jay's is being a big mangina right now.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:34 PM
Damn dude, you sure have a way with words. :lol:

Northman, when you are working for me after I graduate from college -- you will see this live and in person. I don't beat around the bush, I cut the whole thing down. My grandpa always told me being honest was the best way to live your life. I just tell it like it is. I don't think anything from what you quoted can be disputed. . . besides the location of Jay's Diabetes Medical Supply Cart. Colfax might be a little too nice for him. He might go international and set up shop in Tijuana. Somehow, I don't think he'd jive there. He'll see donkey's around constantly and it'll act as a bitter reminder to him what he had good going for him in Denver. Maybe that is what he needs though. . . to be humbled.

Northman
03-15-2009, 01:36 PM
I dont care what side anyone is on but at this point if Jay does not show up tomorrow i blame him for allowing the saga to continue. Jay says he cares about his teammates, well, tomorrow is the day where he proves that for me. So tomorrow will answer a lot of questions for me in this whole mess.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:38 PM
Why are you sucking up? Are you applying to be McDaniels' new videographer?

Videographer, huh? That's way too lofty right now. Shoe-shiner was what I was originally going for.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 01:38 PM
:welcome:
You don't know that we didn't have issues there, Claymore. Perhaps McDaniels thought that Mike Leach was losing a step. If that is the case, he has the right to get rid of him and do whatever it takes to improve the team. You might think being a long snapper is not the coolest position or important, but it certainly is. Paxton is a Hall of Fame caliber long snapper. If you don't think he gets in on the first ballot upon retirement, you aren't thinking.

How does a long snapper lose a step? And there is such thing HOF long snapper. It was waste of cash for postion that was filled by a player that was respected in the locker room and did a darn good job.

Bolwen should have gone with Dennison and this shit would never of happened.

Northman
03-15-2009, 01:38 PM
Northman, when you are working for me after I graduate from college -- you will see this live and in person. I don't beat around the bush, I cut the whole thing down. My grandpa always told me being honest was the best way to live your life. I just tell it like it is. I don't think anything from what you quoted can be disputed. . . besides the location of Jay's Diabetes Medical Supply Cart. Colfax might be a little too nice for him. He might go international and set up shop in Tijuana. Somehow, I don't think he'd jive there. He'll see donkey's around constantly and it'll act as a bitter reminder to him what he had good going for him in Denver. Maybe that is what he needs though. . . to be humbled.


Working for you eh? What will i be doing? Cleaning toilets or working as an network administrator? I just want to know how to plan out my day. :lol:

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:40 PM
Why aren't you cut yet?

Who would ever contemplate getting rid of someone who has "franchise" written all of them. . . wait, Josh McDaniels would. I better watch my back or I could lose this shoe-shining job of mine in a jiffy. Hold on, McDaniels just buzzed me in. Hopefully he is going to just tell me how it is. . . but like Jay, I'm probably not gonna like it.

claymore
03-15-2009, 01:40 PM
I dont care what side anyone is on but at this point if Jay does not show up tomorrow i blame him for allowing the saga to continue. Jay says he cares about his teammates, well, tomorrow is the day where he proves that for me. So tomorrow will answer a lot of questions for me in this whole mess.

I think its unfair to expect Jay to fix this. But I hope he can be the bigger man.

McDaniels isnt innocent either. If he doesnt address the public and this situation he becomes more of a weasel in this mess.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:40 PM
Working for you eh? What will i be doing? Cleaning toilets or working as an network administrator? I just want to know how to plan out my day. :lol:

If you can smash out 100 quality posts on Broncos Forums for me a day, I'll pay you 40 bucks an hour. How does that sound?

claymore
03-15-2009, 01:41 PM
Who would ever contemplate getting rid of someone who has "franchise" written all of them. . . wait, Josh McDaniels would. I better watch my back or I could lose this shoe-shining job of mine in a jiffy. Hold on, McDaniels just buzzed me in. Hopefully he is going to just tell me how it is. . . but like Jay, I'm probably not gonna like it.

I guess if we see your bike on Craigs List we know it didnt go well.

LordTrychon
03-15-2009, 01:43 PM
Who would ever contemplate getting rid of someone who has "franchise" written all of them. . . wait, Josh McDaniels would. I better watch my back or I could lose this shoe-shining job of mine in a jiffy. Hold on, McDaniels just buzzed me in. Hopefully he is going to just tell me how it is. . . but like Jay, I'm probably not gonna like it.

You have franchise written all over you because someone forgot to put the cap back on your 'special boy pen'.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:43 PM
How does a long snapper lose a step?

When he loses an ankle.


And there is such thing HOF long snapper.

Fran Tarkenton, look him up.


It was waste of cash for postion that was filled by a player that was respected in the locker room and did a darn good job.

He was respected by fellow bottom feeders like Corey Jackson, Nate Jackson and jokers like Triandos Luke. In my opinion, he was an average long-snapper. He could never measure up to Deacon Jones.


Bolwen should have gone with Dennison and this shit would never of happened.

Dennison is a loser.

broncohead
03-15-2009, 01:44 PM
Did Josh step into a perfect situation.. like Tomlin did NO.. He walked into a Katrina on the defensive side of the LOS as well as the ST..

About the only thing that was worth a shit was the offense being QB'd by what appears to most rational folks as we speak a troubled prima donna..

it started with his whining about:


not being notified that mikey was going to be replaced..

continued with his wanting to be involved in choosing an new HC...

reportedly whining about wanting to be traded when bates left.. Was there ever a CREDIBLE source?

going ballistic about being on the trading block Ballistic? He said he was surprised

whining about Josh lying to him If McD lies to his players then he's the problem not Jay

not returning calls form Pat Pat called 2 times, who cares. He may not have been near his phone.

refusing to come to DEN for a face to face sit down If I was on vacation I wouldn't go back. I would get back to work when had planned to return.

not returning calls from Dove Valley... Same as above

talking to the reporters before getting the facts.. The media is part of the game. As long as it wasn't in his contract to not talk to the media then he's fine.

placing houses for sale in a down market... It's his house...


I'm sure there are an half dozen other irrational things..

the only thing I fault Josh in doing is signing a LS and not making the deal for jay..

They both need to let their egos go. It honestly is pretty pathetic that 2 (yes both) adults are acting this way. Immature QB and immature HC.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:45 PM
I guess if we see your bike on Craigs List we know it didnt go well.

Hey **** off, my bike got stolen. I don't even have that opportunity! :lol:


You have franchise written all over you because someone forgot to put the cap back on your 'special boy pen'.

That is not how I spell boi.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 01:45 PM
The only fact in this list is highlighted. You are taking rumors and selling them as facts.

My whole point is that Jay Cutler is more valuable to us than McDaniels, and if it is a relationship that cannot be healed, axe McDaniels.

Maybe both sides are wrong, maybe one side is right...... I really dont know.

But cutler is the best thing we have going for our team at the moment.
There is no replacing him with equal or better value for the foreseeable future. And I dont want some cherry kid rookie coach coming in and ****'ing up this organization because he couldnt hold one freaking public press conference stating his loyalty to Cutler.

AS have those so in love with cutler taking rumors and reporters word and basing them as facts..

cutler may be a great QB in the future but frankly he is acting like a 13year old girl right now..

Until he gets his head to match the rest of body he will never live up to his potential..

Now I do not know if Josh walks on water or not BUT Pat hired him to run the show.. for now that is good enough for me..

Just because he has not kissed jay ass in public does not make him a bad guy..

Other than that nothing will fix what is wrong between jays ears for some of you..

Northman
03-15-2009, 01:45 PM
I think its unfair to expect Jay to fix this. But I hope he can be the bigger man.

McDaniels isnt innocent either. If he doesnt address the public and this situation he becomes more of a weasel in this mess.


Honestly, i dont think it will ever be fixed unless Jay finds a way to move on from it. But what i do want is for him to not worry about McD right now and worry about being with his teammates. He doesnt have to show allegiance to McD, but to his teammates i think that is important. McD isnt innocent but the guy does have a job that includes more than just one player so really, its kind of up to Jay to try and get past it whatever problem he has with McD. Im fine if Jay doesnt want to be here but thats up to him and his agent. But if what he says is true regarding how he feels about the guys in the lockeroom than i think its vastly important for him to make an appearance tomorrow. At least show the team, fans, media, public whatever that you do give a care about this franchise. On the flipside (and this is my concern) i have a sneaky suspicion that tomorrow will be about McD explaining that Jay is being traded elsewhere and he wants the team to know about it before anyone else. My guess is McD could try and do this so that he doesnt lose the team before he even takes the field with them. Just my gut feeling here of course.

Northman
03-15-2009, 01:46 PM
if you can smash out 100 quality posts on broncos forums for me a day, i'll pay you 40 bucks an hour. How does that sound?

sold. :d

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 01:46 PM
I will lose all respect for him if he doesn't show up. He is getting paid to be apart of this organization and is under contract. This is a team meeting and if he isn't there than he is not a leader and an awful teammate. He needs to put his hate for McDaniels aside and do what he is paid to do.

If he doesn't show up tomorrow I don't understand how anyone can still support him. It will no longer be speculation on who is causing the problems. It will be apparent that Jay is an ******* and has given up on this team. Real men don't hold grudges or cause drama like this. I can get into a fight with a friend one day and go get drunk with him and have a good time the next. Men handle shit and get over it. Women drag it on like this whole situation has been. If he doesn't like McDaniels that is fine. But he is still Jay's boss get over it and get to work.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:48 PM
Foo, are you saying Jay is a woman?

claymore
03-15-2009, 01:48 PM
Honestly, i dont think it will ever be fixed unless Jay finds a way to move on from it. But what i do want is for him to not worry about McD right now and worry about being with his teammates. He doesnt have to show allegiance to McD, but to his teammates i think that is important. McD isnt innocent but the guy does have a job that includes more than just one player so really, its kind of up to Jay to try and get past it whatever problem he has with McD. Im fine if Jay doesnt want to be here but thats up to him and his agent. But if what he says is true regarding how he feels about the guys in the lockeroom than i think its vastly important for him to make an appearance tomorrow. At least show the team, fans, media, public whatever that you do give a care about this franchise. On the flipside (and this is my concern) i have a sneaky suspicion that tomorrow will be about McD explaining that Jay is being traded elsewhere and he wants the team to know about it before anyone else. My guess is McD could try and do this so that he doesnt lose the team before he even takes the field with them. Just my gut feeling here of course.
Geez I hope not.

EMB6903
03-15-2009, 01:49 PM
seems like it is an absolute mess at Dove Valley, even when you leave out the Mcdaniels/Cutler drama.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:49 PM
Geez I hope not.

In the words of Bief Stue, "Pray harder."

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 01:50 PM
Once again, you are drawing a lot of inferences without knowing the facts . . .

-----


as have everyone else on jays side..

Top did rivers have jays attention in the SAN games????.. I think we both know the answer to that..

that speaks volumes..

When I was in SUBs one we "got to someone" they were done in Submarines..

once Sharpe got into LTs head he was never the same..

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 01:51 PM
Foo, are you saying Jay is a woman?

A really ugly one

topscribe
03-15-2009, 01:52 PM
as have everyone else on jays side..

Top did rivers have jays attention in the SAN games????.. I think we both know the answer to that..

that speaks volumes..

When I was in SUBs one we "got to someone" they were done in Submarines..

once Sharpe got into LTs head he was never the same..

I haven't necessarily been on Jay's side.

Haven't I made that obvious?

-----

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 01:54 PM
Jr, can you color text in either white in work mode or blue in classic mode so I don't have to read your posts?

bullis26
03-15-2009, 01:54 PM
in the beginning i was blaiming this all on cutler, but alittle of the blame needs to go to MCD now.... he critized jay on the phone when they were trying to patch up there feelings, jay needs critisism but that wasnt the right time to do it.... this is still 95% Jays fault though, he is not above the team and he does need to realize that... and by the way, didnt jay ask to be traded after bates and shanny were fired? well he almost got his wish, so he shouldnt be mad...be careful what you wish for Jay

EMB6903
03-15-2009, 01:55 PM
Just because fans dont want to see an amazing talent go doesnt mean we are on "his side"

I think Jay is acting like a 13 yr old school girl.

I just cant imagine losing a talent like that with an entire career ahead of him.

topscribe
03-15-2009, 01:56 PM
Apparently, some people missed this post, so I thought I would repeat it.



It's really beyond me why people are taking sides at this point. (I know . . . I
made my judgmental comments, too, which shows I can be an idiot in my own
right.) We don't have a clue as to what has come down, when, and how, with
all the contradictory rumors flying about.

I do have my suspicions:

1. McDaniels has a deficiency of people skills.
2. Cutler has a thinner skin than he should have for being in professional sports.
3. The whole situation might instantly improve with the disappearance of Bus Cook.

But these are only suspicions. Meanwhile, here are my private hopes:

1. McDaniels is a rousing success, the defense improves dramatically, and McD leads us to the Super Bowl
2. Cutler ultimately wins 3 SBs, gets a bust at Canton, and enters the G.O.A.T. controversy . . . as a Denver Bronco.
3. Bus Cook does indeed disappear.

Realistically, let's just hope that wiser heads prevail.

-----

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 01:58 PM
I will lose all respect for him if he doesn't show up. He is getting paid to be apart of this organization and is under contract. This is a team meeting and if he isn't there than he is not a leader and an awful teammate. He needs to put his hate for McDaniels aside and do what he is paid to do.

If he doesn't show up tomorrow I don't understand how anyone can still support him. It will no longer be speculation on who is causing the problems. It will be apparent that Jay is an ******* and has given up on this team. Real men don't hold grudges or cause drama like this. I can get into a fight with a friend one day and go get drunk with him and have a good time the next. Men handle shit and get over it. Women drag it on like this whole situation has been. If he doesn't like McDaniels that is fine. But he is still Jay's boss get over it and get to work.

drama queen.. best post in the thread..

this kid is a head case.. time to cut him lose while he has a drivel of value..

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 01:59 PM
I am hoping Josh McDaniels prevails. He is 32 and Jay is 25. Wisdom comes with age. Josh wins.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 02:00 PM
seems like it is an absolute mess at Dove Valley, even when you leave out the Mcdaniels/Cutler drama.

and then who is at fault for this?

Foochacho
03-15-2009, 02:00 PM
If I was on this team I would put a box of tampons in Jay's locker.

broncohead
03-15-2009, 02:00 PM
AS have those so in love with cutler taking rumors and reporters word and basing them as facts..

cutler may be a great QB in the future but frankly he is acting like a 13year old girl right now..

Until he gets his head to match the rest of body he will never live up to his potential..

Now I do not know if Josh walks on water or not BUT Pat hired him to run the show.. for now that is good enough for me..

Just because he has not kissed jay ass in public does not make him a bad guy..

Other than that nothing will fix what is wrong between jays ears for some of you..


McD won't let his ego go because Jay won't kiss his ass. It goes both ways your just being one sided.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 02:01 PM
and then who is at fault for this?

Fred, the Security Man and Groundskeeper. Ever since he yelled at that girl last training camp for having ice cream near the playing field, he seemed to have lost his edge. I blame this on Fred.

BroncoJoe
03-15-2009, 02:03 PM
I wish this shit would end.

topscribe
03-15-2009, 02:05 PM
I wish this shit would end.

Best post of the thread.

-----

Requiem / The Dagda
03-15-2009, 02:08 PM
Thought this was an interesting post from an old time poster on NFLDC who has pointed me towards some good rumors (Broncos interest in Tony Scheffler, Greg Jennings, etc.) and would share it with you guys. He did it on PFT.


I’m under the impression, based upon the news reports, that, Cutler, after requesting the trade when Bates left, subsequently met with McDaniels and was looking forward to working with McDaniels. Short of it is, I think it’s fairly clear that the breakdown here occurred because of McDaniels interest in Cassel, which led to Cutler being miffed about not being told he was being shopped. Maybe there’s a behind the scenes story out there, but that seems like the storyline that most are standing by.

I’ll say the same things I’ve thought about this whole issue - Cutler being miffed with McDaniels, I can understand that. Every report suggests that, prior to the Cutler trade rumors leaking, Cutler and McDaniels were meeting and talking. Cutler has to realize it’s a business, though. Unless Bus Cook thinks he can definitely force his way out (and I wouldn’t be surprised if Bus is directing all this), at some point, Cutler has to find a way to make things work (granted, Cutler’s made comments along the lines of, he can still be in Denver and play for his teammates).

That said, McDaniels should’ve been smarter about all this. He’s a first year coach going into a situation where the culture was entrenched for a long time due to Shanny’s long tenure. Cutler’s one of the elite QB’s in the game - look at his performances. Everyone points to Denver not doing anything - well, that was one horrible defense, and his running backs fell like flies last year (add in that, two years ago, they didn’t diagnose the diabetes until late). I’m not saying Cutler has a right to be angry, but McDaniels should’ve been smarter. The idea that Cutler can’t run McDaniels offense is also somewhat foolish - he has the field vision and accuracy to make the throws. Unless McDaniels has some sort of Shanny type relationship with Bowlen, he’s on the typical 3 year or so leash that coaches have (barring a Cam Cameron-like poor season). With the defensive changes that are being made and the uncertainties there (lack of a 3-4 DL, questionable rush backers although I think Dumervil can be fine), he needed the stability on offense to give them freedom, considering he’s making scheme changes there as well. After this fiasco emerged, McDaniels should’ve worked harder to mend fences, because the only thing he puts at risk is his tenure there if he can’t, because there’s no guarantee a new QB can adjust.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 02:47 PM
McD won't let his ego go because Jay won't kiss his ass. It goes both ways your just being one sided.

so you think the HC should kiss jays ass to get on the good side of him?

honz
03-15-2009, 02:51 PM
:faint:

Italianmobstr7
03-15-2009, 02:51 PM
so you think the HC should kiss jays ass to get on the good side of him?

I think they're both wrong. McD shouldn't have even thought about trading Cutler. Cutler shouldn't be such a damn baby. They need to make up and move on. It's bordering on ridiculous.

bcbronc
03-15-2009, 03:04 PM
Pat hasnt openly supported anyone. But he might have to.
McDaniels is easier to replace than Cutler, both logistically and financially.

Support whoever you want, but we still dont know whats been said, or done.

I dislike Mcdaniels not only for the Cutler thing but for Lonnie Paxton, and the Goodmans.

McDaniels has only made me scratch my head and wonder WTF he is doing.

have to disagree with you on that. sure, we could find someone to call head coach, but not someone worth a damn. Imagine the interview process as Bowlen tries to explain firing a coach he just hired because his QB had a hissy fit. it's like your asking Bowlen to turn us into the Raiders.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 03:07 PM
I think they're both wrong. McD shouldn't have even thought about trading Cutler. Cutler shouldn't be such a damn baby. They need to make up and move on. It's bordering on ridiculous.

why should you not think about trading him?

just because he has "potential" does not make him untouchable..

Would be nice to keep him but:


can he learn and "LOVE" the new offense

is he going to get along with new coaches

is his agent more in his head than the Broncos

can we get more value for him than he is worth


NO ONE on any team is not trade able.. it is a matter of how much you get for him..



Like the joke

a guy goes into a bar and see a beautiful lady..

asks her if she would sleep with him for a million dollars

after a few moments of thought she says yes..

then he says how about for $100.

She slaps him and says what do you think I am a whore??

He says we have just established that fact, now we are negotiating the price..

claymore
03-15-2009, 03:32 PM
have to disagree with you on that. sure, we could find someone to call head coach, but not someone worth a damn. Imagine the interview process as Bowlen tries to explain firing a coach he just hired because his QB had a hissy fit. it's like your asking Bowlen to turn us into the Raiders.

At this point Mcdaniels has done nothing that warrants him the lattitude to trade a franchise QB.

McDaniels has done nothing to prove that he means more to this franchise than Jay Cutler. It would take years to do that.

And If Bowlen Fired McDaniels it would just be a presser stating Nolan is in Charge until further notice.

claymore
03-15-2009, 03:35 PM
why should you not think about trading him?

just because he has "potential" does not make him untouchable..

Would be nice to keep him but:


can he learn and "LOVE" the new offense

is he going to get along with new coaches

is his agent more in his head than the Broncos

can we get more value for him than he is worth


NO ONE on any team is not trade able.. it is a matter of how much you get for him..



Like the joke

a guy goes into a bar and see a beautiful lady..

asks her if she would sleep with him for a million dollars

after a few moments of thought she says yes..

then he says how about for $100.

She slaps him and says what do you think I am a whore??

He says we have just established that fact, now we are negotiating the price..

I disagree... When a player on your team is good to great, but holding back someone better, than yes move him.

If we move Cutler we are screwed, If we move Clady we are screwed....... Other than that its open market. Hell Why are we not shopping Bailey?

topscribe
03-15-2009, 03:40 PM
I disagree... When a player on your team is good to great, but holding back someone better, than yes move him.

If we move Cutler we are screwed, If we move Clady we are screwed....... Other than that its open market. Hell Why are we not shopping Bailey?

Shhhh . . . Don't give McDaniels any ideas . . .

-----

Northman
03-15-2009, 03:43 PM
Hell Why are we not shopping Bailey?


I wonder that myself, even more so where is Champ in all this? He is supposed to be a leader as well and we havent heard a peep from him. But i would be more apt to trade Bailey than i would Cutler.

Rex
03-15-2009, 03:48 PM
If he does not show up on Monday, I will have absolutely ZERO respect for Jay Cutler.

Time to grow up Jay.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 03:56 PM
I disagree... When a player on your team is good to great, but holding back someone better, than yes move him.

If we move Cutler we are screwed, If we move Clady we are screwed....... Other than that its open market. Hell Why are we not shopping Bailey?


everyone is open for movement save perhaps Clady..

we are not screwed if we dump this head case..

in fact it might be blessing to get rid of him now..

just because he has a big arm and he made that pro bowl does not make him a franchise QB..

While he has the potential to be one whatever is going on between the ears may never allow him to get there..

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 04:04 PM
"According to a source close to Cutler, the quarterback and McDaniel's exchanged words during a one-on-one meeting Saturday.."

Note there is no source from the broncos whining to the press..

Most likely someone with an agenda here stirring up the crap..

Either an agent, a reporter that has a hardon for Josh.. both with agendas..

Follow the money here folks.. it is always about money..

Shame on some of you that automatically blame the HC because of a man love for jay/mikey..

A reporter that has a hard on for Josh? That statement doesn't make Josh look bad. All it says is that the 2 got into it...

I would think if someone was making shit up to make Josh look bad they could do a hell of a lot better then that..

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 04:12 PM
A reporter that has a hard on for Josh? That statement doesn't make Josh look bad. All it says is that the 2 got into it...

I would think if someone was making shit up to make Josh look bad they could do a hell of a lot better then that..

While it may have not happened to the 3rd degree on this particular report the later comment was an overall response.

when someone is stirring he is stirring the pot.. While I have not kept track of which reporter has reported what and when I sounds to me that OVERALL the press is taking sides hear..

We also know that those of Y'all that think Mc Kid is the devil and jay walks on water will read into those comment a different way those those of us that either are neutral or on "managements" side here.....


Let me just say Pat seems to have taken position here and since Josh is currently the head coach. I'll wait to see how he does before light the fire under the tar and looking for feathers..

BroncoWave
03-15-2009, 04:27 PM
Here's where I am at this point:

Either McDaniels is the biggest d-bag in the world or Cutler is the biggest crybaby in the world. I have a feeling it's somewhere in between and I just hope this doesn't wreck our season.

claymore
03-15-2009, 04:31 PM
While it may have not happened to the 3rd degree on this particular report the later comment was an overall response.

when someone is stirring he is stirring the pot.. While I have not kept track of which reporter has reported what and when I sounds to me that OVERALL the press is taking sides hear..

We also know that those of Y'all that think Mc Kid is the devil and jay walks on water will read into those comment a different way those those of us that either are neutral or on "managements" side here.....


Let me just say Pat seems to have taken position here and since Josh is currently the head coach. I'll wait to see how he does before light the fire under the tar and looking for feathers..
You are clearly not neutral on this! I am the voice of reason here mister. :D

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 04:35 PM
You are clearly not neutral on this! I am the voice of reason here mister. :D.


and you have some land for sale in EL Paso that is beach front too..:salute:

claymore
03-15-2009, 04:37 PM
.
and you have some land for sale in EL Paso that is beach front too..:salute:

This is the time to invest......

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 04:48 PM
Former Denver offensive lineman Mark Cooper, who played in the 1980s, cracked: "Times have changed around here. Now players cry when they hear they're going to be traded."

:rofl:

Magnificent Seven
03-15-2009, 04:49 PM
No resolution in Denver

Cutler-McDaniels meeting doesn't bring an end to ongoing feud.

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Jay Cutler finally met face-to-face with Josh McDaniels over the weekend, but nothing was resolved, leading to doubt the Denver Broncos quarterback will show up for the new coach's first team meeting Monday.

Cutler and McDaniels, who are involved in a simmering feud over trade talks, met Saturday at the Broncos' training facility, and both sides agreed to regroup and continue conversations, team spokesman Patrick Smyth told The Associated Press.

It wasn't clear if the sides planned to meet again Sunday.

On Saturday, Cutler and his agent, Bus Cook, met with McDaniels and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders in what the team described as mild-mannered conversations at Dove Valley. However, Denver station KCNC-TV reported that the meeting didn't go well, and The Denver Post reported that words were exchanged between Cutler and McDaniels.

Cook didn't return phone messages left by The AP on Sunday.

McDaniels isn't scheduled to address the media until the annual owners meeting March 22-25 in Dana Point, Calif. But the Broncos insist they're not going to trade Cutler, who just played in his first Pro Bowl.

Cutler has deepened the drama by putting his 7,516-square-foot home in suburban Parker on the market for $2 million. And a smaller home owned by Cutler and his parents, Jack and Sandra Cutler, two miles away is for sale for $835,000. However, Cutler is keeping his downtown Denver penthouse -- at least for now.

On Saturday night, Cutler was a no-show at a fundraiser at Invesco Field, where he was on the guest list. The Broncos said Cutler didn't attend because he didn't want to be a distraction but that he made a donation to the cause, Dani's Foundation, which raises money for research and treatment for rare forms of cancer in children.

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen was in attendance, but he wouldn't answer any questions and waved off a reporter. Bowlen has yet to publicly address the rift between his new coach and his temperamental quarterback.

Cutler's name was brought up a lot at that event -- a roast for longtime Broncos trainer Steve Antonopulos. Former Denver offensive lineman Mark Cooper, who played in the 1980s, cracked: "Times have changed around here. Now players cry when they hear they're going to be traded."

Cutler has been unhappy since learning that McDaniels, who was New England's offensive coordinator the last three seasons, entertained the notion of trading him to the Buccaneers in a three-way swap that would have brought quarterback Matt Cassel from the Patriots to the Broncos.

New England instead traded Cassel to the Kansas City Chiefs.

Cutler believes McDaniels, who replaced Mike Shanahan in January, misled him about those trade talks and has said he believes he'll be traded by draft weekend if the Broncos find the right deal.

McDaniels has said all he did was listen to the trade proposals, as he would with any player, as he tries to rebuild a Broncos team that hasn't been to the playoffs since 2005.

The Broncos have been the NFL's most active team in free agency, signing 15 players, including quarterback Chris Simms, a former Bucs starter who has thrown just two passes since having emergency surgery to remove his spleen after a game in 2006. Simms signed a two-year, $6 million contract with Denver, ostensibly to serve as Cutler's backup.

With his relationship with his starting quarterback strained, McDaniels wanted a face-to-face meeting once Cutler returned from his offseason home in Nashville, Tenn., so they could clear the air before the team's offseason training program kicks off Monday with the coach's first team meeting.

All eyes will be on the lookout for Cutler. If he's a no-show, it will undermine McDaniels' authority and deepen the rift between the 25-year-old quarterback and the 32-year-old first-time head coach, perhaps irreparably.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f45763&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 04:50 PM
I have not read all 12 pages and I doubt I will, I did skim over the first page. So this is mainly directed at the post’s on the first page..

Why are so many blaming Cutler? You have no idea what McKid told him that got him so upset. Or if he is really even that upset.. For the sake of the thread let’s assume Cutler really is more upset after the meeting on Saturday.

Hell for all we know Josh could have been being a real bitch? Do we even know this guy? Seriously, why when we hear there was a fight do so many just assume Cutler is at fault? Think about it for a second, have any of McDaniels former players said anything good about him? The guy could be a real jerk.

The Goodmans couldn’t get along with him either; Jim never struck me as a guy who didn’t want to get along with people. Look at Cutler’s record for that matter, Plummer and a few others have said Shanahan could be a real hard ass at times. Shanahan expected his players to come to every meeting and scheduled OTA. He expected his players to come to every meeting when they were hurt, he expected players to play through pain. We all know how easy it was to get in his dog house..

So why didn’t Cutler ever have any problem with Shanahan? Why did he respect the guy so much and why was he upset that he got fired? Plummer was said to be happy when Shanahan got fired and we all know there were plenty of other former Shanahan players smiling as well.

Plummer said one of his biggest problems with Shanahan was because he expected too much and you couldn’t please him, he was always coming down on Jake when he messed up. Cutler never seemed to have a problem with any of that. I’m sorry I just have a hard time believing Cutler is being pissy because Josh is critiquing his play or expecting him to work hard in the off season. That just doesn’t add up with what we know of Cutler.


Think about everything negative about Cutler, He is said to speak way to freely with the press. Shanahan even addressed that. It appears he goes into a shell when he isn’t playing well, in those times people have accused him of not being a team player because he sits alone on the bench.. So it is clear he hates to lose and needs some work on getting over his mistakes on the field.

Now, does any of that add up to what Cutler is being accused of now? Has he ever not been able to get along with his coaches? There was talk that he spoke to Marshall after he got into it with the WR coach. Has he ever been accused be not being a hard worker on any level of play? Has he ever been accused of thinking he is above the team? His teammates like him. As far as I can tell he gets along with everyone on the team. Doomervile said the team needed to have Cutlers back. So the talk of him not getting along with the defensive players just doesn’t add up.

It is clear he feels like he was wronged, when you actually listen to the phone conversation he wasn’t whining, he was just trying to make sense of the lack of respect McDaniels was showing him.

I don’t know what McDaniels record is? None of us even know the guy. Cutler has lived under a microscope here for 3 years now. Anything and everything bad about him has been dug up, so we at least have our history with him to go off of. We have nothing with McDaniels.

Do you believe McDaniels is in the right no matter what because he is the coach? 3 years from now he could be known as the biggest A hole of all time and completely out of the NFL.


I liken this to a friend of yours, Cutler might not be your best friend but he was a friend none the less. We know him and a lot of what he is about. Now McDaniels comes into that circle of friends and doesn’t get along with Jay. Josh won’t say a ward about it and Jay is telling you Josh is treating him like shit. So who are you going to believe, the new guy or the guy who you have been friends with for the last 3 years?

I realize some of you have never liked Cutler, you have no reason to like or believe him now, in fact you will use this as a reason you don’t like him. But for everyone else, please try and look at the big picture here.

Could Jay really be the negative guy being painted in this situation? From what you know of him, good and bad, does that sound like an accurate description?

spikerman
03-15-2009, 04:50 PM
everyone is open for movement save perhaps Clady..


Why not Clady? I thought McKid said NOBODY was untouchable. Hell, just trade them all and pick up all of the Patriots cast offs.

claymore
03-15-2009, 04:55 PM
Why not Clady? I thought McKid said NOBODY was untouchable. Hell, just trade them all and pick up all of the Patriots cast offs.

Im sure we could get a first for him and draft a linebacker.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 05:02 PM
Im sure we could get a first for him and draft a linebacker.The team should trade him to the Patriots for Tedy Bruschi. He's got a good year left in him.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 05:15 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted - it was just recently updated:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11919325

They have tried talking on the phone, and meeting in person. Neither apparently has worked.

What's next for new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and his disgruntled quarterback, Jay Cutler? There now appears a real possibility the two sides are headed for a divorce based on irreconcilable differences.

"I'm very disappointed," Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday of the feud between his quarterback and first-year coach. "I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he is steadfastly supports his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the situation.

Friction between Cutler and McDaniels appears to have escalated
following a meeting Saturday. Attending the meeting were Cutler, his agent Bus Cook, McDaniels and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders.

The Broncos say no ultimatums were given during the Saturday meeting, which the team characterized as mild-mannered, with no raised voices. However, no reconciliation was reached.

"We agreed to regroup and continue to have conversations," a Broncos spokesman told the Denver Post. "The Broncos reinforced to Jay and his agent that they have been honest with them since Day One."

The breakdown came just as it appeared Cutler and McDaniels were moving towards mending their relationship. Cutler returned to Denver late last week from Nashville, where he has spent most of the offseason. With McDaniels holding his first team meeting at 8 a.m. Monday, Cutler was not only planning to attend, he agreed to a pre-emptive personal meeting with his new coach and GM.

However, according to a source close to Cutler, the quarterback didn't like what he heard and as of Sunday was set on skipping the team meeting Monday.

Cutler has insisted that until his situation gets resolved, all conversation with Broncos officials must include his agent, Cook, who led the discussions in the both the conference call last Monday with Broncos officials and in the meeting Saturday with McDaniels and Xanders.

It's possible that because of their mistrust in Broncos officials, Cook and Cutler are seeking indications of a stronger commitment through a new contract. After making nearly $17 million through the first three years of his six-year contract, Cutler will make $1.035 million salary this season. Cutler could also earn an additional $100,000 by attending 90 percent of the team's offseason conditioning program that technically begins after the meeting Monday, although for now Cutler appears willing to forfeit that workout bonus.

Cutler also could earn potential bonuses of $4 million in 2010 and $12 million in 2011 that are not guaranteed but would become vested through playing time and performance.

Cutler, who passed for 25 touchdowns and 4,526 yards last season while throwing 18 interceptions, has been unhappy with McDaniels since learning he was involved in a trade proposal that would have sent him to Tampa Bay in a three-team swap that would have brought Matt Cassel, McDaniels' former quarterback in New England, to Denver.

Cutler has said he is not bothered by the trade proposal itself, but feels McDaniels misled him. McDaniels has said the Broncos merely listened to offers submitted from other teams, as they do for all players, but Cutler's camp isn't buying that explanation.

The Broncos are now weighing their options.

The Broncos' current backup quarterback is Chris Simms, a former Tampa Bay starter who was recently signed to a two-year, $6 million contract from the free-agent market. Simms will make $3.46 million in salary and bonus for the 2009 season and could earn another $1.5 million in incentives that appear more makeable with each passing day of the Cutler controversy.

Cutler put his Parker home up for sale Friday and his parents listed their Elizabeth home for sale Saturday, perhaps sending the message they are serious about leaving Denver.

If Cutler is traded, his preferences figure to be the Tennessee Titans, who play in Nashville, or the Chicago Bears, his favorite childhood team who are in need of a quarterback upgrade. Other possibilities could be Cleveland, whose coach Eric Mangini, was formerly McDaniels' colleague on Bill Belichick's staff in New England; Tampa Bay; Minnesota; Detroit and Arizona.

Any trade would likely involve draft picks. April 25 is the first day of the NFL draft.

The Broncos could also decide to not trade Cutler and treat him as a holdout if he refuses off-season workouts.

spikerman
03-15-2009, 05:22 PM
Doesn't leave much room for optimism, does it?

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 05:27 PM
Doesn't leave much room for optimism, does it?

No, but I have to believe the decision was already made when Simms was brought here :tsk:

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 05:29 PM
No, but I have to believe the decision was already made when Simms was brought here :tsk:

Simms can't be the final link at QB though. I wonder who else they will bring in?

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 05:30 PM
Simms can't be the final link at QB though. I wonder who else they will bring in?

There's still FA QB's floating around out there

JKcatch724
03-15-2009, 05:32 PM
Fml.

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 05:40 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted - it was just recently updated:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11919325


"I'm very disappointed," Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday of the feud between his quarterback and first-year coach. "I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he is steadfastly supports his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the situation.

Friction between Cutler and McDaniels appears to have escalated
following a meeting Saturday. Attending the meeting were Cutler, his agent Bus Cook, McDaniels and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders.

I don't understand that, what is "the whole picture"? losing Cutler is the worst result in being disappointed in the way Cutler has handled the situation.. So what is the whole picture? I knew he said he supports McDaniels but that doesn't necessarily mean he supports everything he has done. What else could be the whole picture?

I also don't like the fact Bowlen wasn't at the meeting on Saturday.. What ever was said there made things even worse and he wasn't there first hand to hear it for himself



"We agreed to regroup and continue to have conversations," a Broncos spokesman told the Denver Post. "The Broncos reinforced to Jay and his agent that they have been honest with them since Day One."

The breakdown came just as it appeared Cutler and McDaniels were moving towards mending their relationship. Cutler returned to Denver late last week from Nashville, where he has spent most of the offseason. With McDaniels holding his first team meeting at 8 a.m. Monday, Cutler was not only planning to attend, he agreed to a pre-emptive personal meeting with his new coach and GM.

However, according to a source close to Cutler, the quarterback didn't like what he heard and as of Sunday was set on skipping the team meeting Monday.

Cutler has insisted that until his situation gets resolved, all conversation with Broncos officials must include his agent, Cook, who led the discussions in the both the conference call last Monday with Broncos officials and in the meeting Saturday with McDaniels and Xanders.


Again, something that was said in this meeting made things worse. Even after the phone conversation Cutler was planning on showing up Monday.. My guess is that McKid's true feelings came out when Bowlen wasn't around to hear it..

spikerman
03-15-2009, 05:42 PM
:laugh: <---- Mike Shanahan

BroncoJoe
03-15-2009, 05:43 PM
... My guess is ...

Enough said.

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 05:43 PM
No, but I have to believe the decision was already made when Simms was brought here :tsk:

I agree, Simms had wanted out of Tenn because he didn't have a real chance of starting there. It was said he would go to Detroit who he also talked to because that gave him the best chance to start. Why would he have came here if he knew he was just going to be backing to one the leagues most promising and durable starters?

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 05:44 PM
I sure do feel for the other 70+ or so players that are going to report tomorrow and what they are going to have to deal with with the media circus that will be out there.

claymore
03-15-2009, 05:52 PM
Again, something that was said in this meeting made things worse. Even after the phone conversation Cutler was planning on showing up Monday.. My guess is that McKid's true feelings came out when Bowlen wasn't around to hear it..It looks like Bowlen supports Jay more than some hoped.


I sure do feel for the other 70+ or so players that are going to report tomorrow and what they are going to have to deal with with the media circus that will be out there.
What do we do if the Star players all skip Monday's meeting?

Kapaibro
03-15-2009, 06:04 PM
Cutler not attending a TEAM meeting says to me that he is not a TEAM player.

He says he will play for the team, and not the coach, but if he can't even get his thumb out of his butt long enough to attend a TEAM meeting, then he is not the leader the Broncos are looking for.

roomemp
03-15-2009, 06:07 PM
Cutler not attending a TEAM meeting says to me that he is not a TEAM player.

He says he will play for the team, and not the coach, but if he can't even get his thumb out of his butt long enough to attend a TEAM meeting, then he is not the leader the Broncos are looking for.

If he doesn't attend tomorrow. He should be gone. I am sorry.

honz
03-15-2009, 06:18 PM
:faint:

Kapaibro
03-15-2009, 06:26 PM
If he doesn't attend tomorrow. He should be gone. I am sorry.

Don't apologise for what many of us are thinking.

If anyone needs to apologise, it will be Jay.

Broncospsycho77
03-15-2009, 06:37 PM
I ****ing hate this.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 06:57 PM
when you look at the last post article this jumped out at me..

"It's possible that because of their mistrust in Broncos officials, Cook and Cutler are seeking indications of a stronger commitment through a new contract. After making nearly $17 million through the first three years of his six-year contract, Cutler will make $1.035 million salary this season. Cutler could also earn an additional $100,000 by attending 90 percent of the team's offseason conditioning program that technically begins after the meeting Monday, although for now Cutler appears willing to forfeit that workout bonus."



Also afraid to talk to anyone without his agent present

Come folks, follow the money, it is always about MONEY..

trade the turd while he has some value..

PatrietteAz
03-15-2009, 07:03 PM
when you look at the last post article this jumped out at me..

"It's possible that because of their mistrust in Broncos officials, Cook and Cutler are seeking indications of a stronger commitment through a new contract. After making nearly $17 million through the first three years of his six-year contract, Cutler will make $1.035 million salary this season. Cutler could also earn an additional $100,000 by attending 90 percent of the team's offseason conditioning program that technically begins after the meeting Monday, although for now Cutler appears willing to forfeit that workout bonus."



Also afraid to talk to anyone without his agent present

Come folks, follow the money, it is always about MONEY..

trade the turd while he has some value..

What has he done to earn any kind of a raise? He is all about himself..shows it over and over to this outsider. Maybe they can give you guys Trent Edwards and Cutler can go to Buffalo and be with like minded guys like TO.:)

claymore
03-15-2009, 07:08 PM
Cutler not attending a TEAM meeting says to me that he is not a TEAM player.

He says he will play for the team, and not the coach, but if he can't even get his thumb out of his butt long enough to attend a TEAM meeting, then he is not the leader the Broncos are looking for.

Why should he show any more loyalty and commitment than the Broncos have shown to him? If rade gate would have never happened it wouldnt have been an issue.

Kapaibro
03-15-2009, 07:21 PM
Why should he show any more loyalty and commitment than the Broncos have shown to him? If rade gate would have never happened it wouldnt have been an issue.

Jay himself said he would play for the TEAM.

If he does not do this, then he is not playing for the team, the fans or anyone.

He is being PAID damn good money to shut up, and front up.

IN this day and age, throwing a hissy fit to get more money is a slap in the face to all the regular folk scraping together a living.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 07:21 PM
What has he done to earn any kind of a raise? He is all about himself..shows it over and over to this outsider. Maybe they can give you guys Trent Edwards and Cutler can go to Buffalo and be with like minded guys like TO.:)


none IMO, your correct it is all about the pantie waist..

95% it is always money and with bus cook his agent it is always drama.. every player he has represented last year it was Brett

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 07:24 PM
Bus Cook should get mugged...

Gamechanger
03-15-2009, 07:26 PM
looks like if this doesn't work out, McD may end up in a Linehan-like situation

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 07:30 PM
when you look at the last post article this jumped out at me..

"It's possible that because of their mistrust in Broncos officials, Cook and Cutler are seeking indications of a stronger commitment through a new contract. After making nearly $17 million through the first three years of his six-year contract, Cutler will make $1.035 million salary this season. Cutler could also earn an additional $100,000 by attending 90 percent of the team's offseason conditioning program that technically begins after the meeting Monday, although for now Cutler appears willing to forfeit that workout bonus."



Also afraid to talk to anyone without his agent present

Come folks, follow the money, it is always about MONEY..

trade the turd while he has some value..


Jay himself said he would play for the TEAM.

If he does not do this, then he is not playing for the team, the fans or anyone.

He is being PAID damn good money to shut up, and front up.

IN this day and age, throwing a hissy fit to get more money is a slap in the face to all the regular folk scraping together a living.

No one has said they are even asking for a new contract.. That is nothing more then a Possibility, IMO that was pretty clear when he said, "It's possible" :coffee:

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 07:34 PM
looks like if this doesn't work out, McD may end up in a Linehan-like situation

Just a quick question beings your a Colts fan. Had McDaniels came to Indy and he entertained trade talks for Payton, then said every player was expendable so he would listen to any and all trade talks how do you think that would have been received by Manning?

I'm not compering what Manning has done to that of Cutler but McDipshit's idea is that every player can be replaced and no one is above the team..

Meaning, it might take more to deal Manning then Cutler but he would still be on the block if the right offer came along, he would ship him out.

Manning is one of the classiest guys in the NFL but I have a hard time believing he would except that BS..

Think about it people, Cutler could go out this year and win the Superbowl and McDaniels could still trade him. That is if he really believes everyone is expendable and could be traded.

What star player is going to want to play for a guy if they know nothing they do will give them security? No matter how hard or well they play, there value to the team will never exceed that of how many draft picks they can bring in..

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 07:39 PM
No one has said they are even asking for a new contract.. That is nothing more then a Possibility, IMO that was pretty clear when he said, "It's possible" :coffee:


want to lay some odds here? its always money when your talking to bus cook..

claymore
03-15-2009, 07:44 PM
want to lay some odds here? its always money when your talking to bus cook..

Then they should give it to him, and chalk this up a a lesson in secrecy, and dont trust Belecheat.

Gamechanger
03-15-2009, 07:44 PM
Just a quick question beings your a Colts fan. Had McDaniels came to Indy and he entertained trade talks for Payton, then said every player was expendable so he would listen to any and all trade talks how do you think that would been received by Manning?

I'm not compering what Manning has done to that of Cutler but McDipshit's idea is that every player can be replaced and no one is above the team..

Meaning, it might take more to deal Manning then Cutler but he would still be on the block if they right offer came along, he would ship him out.

Manning is one of the classiest guys in the NFL but I have a hard time believing he would except that BS..

Think about it people, Cutler could go out this year and win the Superbowl and McDaniels could still trade him. That is if he really believes everyone is expendable and could be traded.

What star player is going to want to play for a guy if they know nothing they do will give them security? No matter how hard or well they play, there value to the team will never exceed that of how many draft picks they can bring in..

honestly i'd be as mad as you guys are

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 07:51 PM
I am reposting the article, as it was updated at 6:13, and there are a few new things in it:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11919325

They have tried separating. They have twice tried meeting.

Nothing has worked. What's next for new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and his disgruntled quarterback, Jay Cutler?

There is now a real possibility the two sides are headed for a divorce based on irreconcilable differences.

"I'm very disappointed," Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday. "I'm disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback."

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he is steadfastly supporting his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the situation.

Friction between Cutler and McDaniels appears to have escalated following a meeting Saturday. Attending the meeting were Cutler, his agent Bus Cook, McDaniels and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders.

The Broncos say no ultimatums were given during the Saturday meeting, which the team characterized as mild-mannered with no raised voices.

However, no reconciliation was reached.

"There was a brief meeting Saturday morning and we agreed to regroup and continue to have conversations," a Broncos spokesman told the Denver Post. "The Broncos reinforced to Jay and his agent that they have been honest with them since Day One."

The breakdown came just as it appeared Cutler and McDaniels were moving towards mending their relationship. Cutler returned to Denver late last week from Nashville, where he has spent most of his offseason.

With McDaniels holding his first team meeting at 8 a.m. Monday, Cutler was not only planning to attend, he agreed to a preemptive personal meeting with his new coach and GM. However, according to a source close to Cutler, the quarterback didn't like what he heard and as of Sunday was set on skipping the team meeting Monday.

However, the meeting, which technically begins the Broncos' offseason conditioning program, is not considered mandatory under the collective bargaining agreement. The first mandatory session Cutler would have to attend is the Broncos' first mini-camp, April 17-19. If Cutler skips that mini-camp, the Broncos could fine him each day he has missed. He could also put a pro-rated portion of his signing bonus at risk.

Cutler has insisted that until his situation gets resolved, all conversation with Broncos officials must include Cook, who led the discussions in the both conference call Monday with Broncos officials that included Bowlen and chief operating officer Joe Ellis, and in the meeting Saturday with McDaniels and Xanders.

Cook is the same agent who represents Brett Favre and helped facilitate the icon quarterback's trade last summer from the Green Bay Packers to the New York Jets.

It's possible that because of their mistrust in Broncos officials, Cook and Cutler are seeking commitment assurances through a new contract. After making between $14.6 million and $17.3 million (depending on undisclosed incentives earned) through the first three years of his six-year contract, Cutler will draw a relatively affordable $1.035 million salary this season. Cutler could also earn an additional $100,000 by attending 90 percent of the team's offseason conditioning program that technically begins after the meeting Monday, although for now Cutler is willing to forfeit that workout bonus.

Cutler also has bonuses of $4 million in 2010 and $12 million 2001 that are not guaranteed but would become vested through playing time and performance.

Cutler, who passed for 25 touchdowns and 4,526 yards last year but also 18 interceptions, has been unhappy since learning he was involved in a trade proposal that would have sent him to Tampa Bay in a three-team swap that would have brought Matt Cassel, McDaniels' former quarterback in New England, to Denver.

Cutler has said he is not bothered by the trade proposal itself, but how McDaniels has misled him. McDaniels has said the Broncos merely listened to offers submitted from other teams, as they do for all players, but Cutler's camp isn't buying that explanation.

The Broncos are now weighing their next options, including the possibility Cutler has reached the point of no return. While the team was hoping to avoid dealing away a 25-year-old quarterback who earned a Pro Bowl nod in just his second full season as a starter, keeping him would risk sending a message to the rest of the team there is one set of rules for Cutler, and another for everybody else.

The Broncos' current backup quarterback is Chris Simms, a former Tampa Bay starter who was recently signed to a two-year, $6 million contract from the free-agent market. Simms will make $3.46 million in salary and bonus this season and could earn another $1.5 million in incentives that appear more makeable with each passing day of the Cutler controversy.

Cutler put his Parker home up for sale Friday and his parents listed their Elizabeth home for sale Saturday, perhaps sending the message they are serious about wanting out of Denver.

If Cutler is dealt, his preferences figure to be the Tennessee Titans, who play in Nashville, or the Chicago Bears, his favorite childhood team who would seem to be in need of a quarterback upgrade.

Other possibilities would be Cleveland, whose coach Eric Mangini, was formerly McDaniels' colleague on Bill Belichick's staff in New England; Tampa Bay; Minnesota; Detroit and Arizona.

Most trades involve draft picks so any such deal for Cutler probably wouldn't be consummated until April 25, the first day of the NFL draft and four days before Cutler's 26th birthday.

The Broncos could also decide to not trade Cutler and treat him as a holdout.

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 07:55 PM
shit. this entire situation gives me a head ache :tsk:

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 08:36 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/15/bowlen-we-might-lose-our-star-qb/

The Broncos and Jay Cutler appear headed toward a divorce after team owner Pat Bowlen voiced his displeasure with the way the quarterback has handled himself in recent weeks and gave his complete support to new coach Josh McDaniels, according to the Denver Post.

The two sides met on Saturday.

“I’m very disappointed,” Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday. “I’m disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback.”

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he steadfastly supports his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the two-week standoff.

If Bowlen really is disappointed in Cutler, there is only one way to send him a message: Trade him to Detroit. The Lions previously were in the mix for Cutler, which sparked this controversy in the first place. A number of other teams — including the Bears, Vikings, Jets, Buccaneers and 49ers — also could be looking for a quarterback.

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 08:40 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/15/bowlen-we-might-lose-our-star-qb/

The Broncos and Jay Cutler appear headed toward a divorce after team owner Pat Bowlen voiced his displeasure with the way the quarterback has handled himself in recent weeks and gave his complete support to new coach Josh McDaniels, according to the Denver Post.

The two sides met on Saturday.

“I’m very disappointed,” Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday. “I’m disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback.”

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he steadfastly supports his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the two-week standoff.

If Bowlen really is disappointed in Cutler, there is only one way to send him a message: Trade him to Detroit. The Lions previously were in the mix for Cutler, which sparked this controversy in the first place. A number of other teams — including the Bears, Vikings, Jets, Buccaneers and 49ers — also could be looking for a quarterback.

I rest assured knowing that Bowlen is backing up McDaniels on his destruction of our Denver Broncos team....good job Bowlen :coffee:

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 08:43 PM
honestly i'd be as mad as you guys are

That's the thing that gets me GC, talking with other fans from all over; most agree Cutler is getting screwed over by the Broncos organization. Most agree Cutler wanting some security isn't unreasonable. I would say a far superior number of fans from those other teams are siding with Cutler over the Broncos fans.

IMO Broncos fans don't want to see what the organization is doing, they would rather blindly follow them regardless how classless they are treating Cutler. I mean who wants to accept the fact their favorite team is a classless organization?

I believe if the fans don't except this kind of player treatment, the team won't accept it either. Right now McKid is in the process of demonizing Cutler so he can generate fan support in trading him.

A lot of the fans fearing Cutler is going to be traded are willing to just pin the blame on Cutler. Even though Cutler has come right out and stated, “I want to be a Bronco, I don’t want to be traded” Some of the fans are saying Cutler doesn’t want to be a Bronco and he wants to be traded to ease the blow of what the organization is doing to Cutler.

There have been countless rumors saying Cutler would be traded, Cutler said as much and he is upset saying the FO isn’t being honest with me. The same FO released a statement saying “We are NOT trading Cutler period!” After the last phone conversation, the source from the Broncos said, Cutler could be traded before the draft. That was after he reported McKid saying he wasn’t going to trade Cutler. It was the same freaking source saying both contradictory statements. So even the source for the Broncos was saying despite what McKid is saying, Cutler might still be traded.

Now Bowlen is talking about “losing” Cutler. Does that sound like “We are NOT trading Cutler Period”? So you tell me, does it sound like the Broncos brass is being honest to Cutler when they tell him he won’t be traded?

If they trade him, all it does is prove Cutler was right! In fact if they even attempt to trade him it proves Cutler was right.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 08:44 PM
I rest assured knowing that Bowlen is backing up McDaniels on his destruction of our Denver Broncos team....good job Bowlen :coffee:

He has no choice but to publically back McD in this. If he backed Jay, he would be admitting a mistake in hiring McD. For Bowlen, he's in a no win situation.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 08:51 PM
He has no choice but to publically back McD in this. If he backed Jay, he would be admitting a mistake in hiring McD. For Bowlen, he's in a no win situation.

That what I think to. At this point he has to support to management. He might not agree with Mcdaniels, but in the end management always sticks together.

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 08:51 PM
He has no choice but to publically back McD in this. If he backed Jay, he would be admitting a mistake in hiring McD. For Bowlen, he's in a no win situation.

He does have a choice.

Go out publicly...say that you are disappointed in both of them for not settling their differences.

He doesnt have to take anybodies side.

sneakers
03-15-2009, 08:52 PM
Idiots!

roomemp
03-15-2009, 08:54 PM
He has no choice but to publically back McD in this. If he backed Jay, he would be admitting a mistake in hiring McD. For Bowlen, he's in a no win situation.

I don't think so. I think he is truely diappointed in Jay. Shanny was holding Jay's hand and stroking his ego. McDaniels is just not going to do it. Bowlen brought in McDaniels to turn this organization around. Jay is underminding that effort because he is still pissed that Shanny and Bates are gone amongst other things. Jay is not doing whats best for this organization.

Gamechanger
03-15-2009, 09:03 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/15/bowlen-we-might-lose-our-star-qb/

The Broncos and Jay Cutler appear headed toward a divorce after team owner Pat Bowlen voiced his displeasure with the way the quarterback has handled himself in recent weeks and gave his complete support to new coach Josh McDaniels, according to the Denver Post.

The two sides met on Saturday.

“I’m very disappointed,” Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday. “I’m disappointed in the whole picture, not just disappointed that we might lose our star quarterback.”

Asked to clarify, Bowlen said he steadfastly supports his new coach and his disappointment lies in the way Cutler has handled the two-week standoff.

If Bowlen really is disappointed in Cutler, there is only one way to send him a message: Trade him to Detroit. The Lions previously were in the mix for Cutler, which sparked this controversy in the first place. A number of other teams — including the Bears, Vikings, Jets, Buccaneers and 49ers — also could be looking for a quarterback.


idk.....sounds like Cutler is trying to burn a bridge but at the same time the question lies in.....if Cutler is traded....what now? who would at least be a managable arm?

Simms is not, sorry to say

any situation can be resolved, even with this, this doesn't sound like a QB-HC spat anymore, i'm sure that it is not that and its deeper, could be money, could be foolish pride, could be red tape in the system, whatever it is its not helping

Bowlens best bet IMHO however is to let Cutler act like this UNTIL there is an insurance policy at QB

but Bowlen should also heed this warning in his words though on both sides of this spat: do not put all the eggs in one basket

your owner chose a side, VERY bad PR move

and i'll say this also, if you guys have a less than stellar season then someones head is going to roll

whether some of you guys like it or not, both Cutler AND McDaniels are on a short leash.....

Cutler is because of him not coming to Dove Valley to talk with the FO, not abiding by the owner and HC and also blubbeering to the media

McDaniels is also because its putting the message "I can win without a guy who has made alot of accomplishments in this organization"

I'm sorry but those aren't snickers and stuff you hear, those are other fans laughing hysterically at this

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 09:16 PM
He has no choice but to publically back McD in this. If he backed Jay, he would be admitting a mistake in hiring McD. For Bowlen, he's in a no win situation.

That's why I believe he will do his part to make Cutler look bad.. It doesn't change a darn thing in my mind though; accept I wondered before why Jay didn't return Bowlen's calls. Jay must have known from the start Bowlen was going to blindly back McKid. I don’t see Cutler accepting all the blame for the way he was treated. I wouldn’t either..

I guess Cutler was right about that too, the source from Cutlers side said Cutler was upset after the phone call because the Broncos approached the situation as if Cutler had asked to be traded and started this mess. Pat seems to be pinning all the blame on Cutler, I’m sure that’s why that was said.

As you said, McKids mind seemed to be made up when they brought in Simms. Otherwise why would Simms have signed with the Broncos knowing he wasn’t going to get to start? One would have thought he would have had a better chance to start in Detroit then here. If you are right about McKids mind being made up at that point, and I believe you are. That was before even the phone conversation… His mind could have been made up when he tried to trade Cutler the first time. There is a reason Cutler was so upset and adamant about McKid wanting to trade him.

Think back to everything Cutler said when he first heard he was being traded. Now ask yourself, is this playing out like Cutler said it would? Is the team talking about trading/losing him? It was reported Cutler wanted to put it all behind them before the phone conversation, he thought they were going to work it out. It was also reported before this last meeting Cutler was coming on Monday. After each time he talks with the FO he gets further away from coming on Monday. It’s really as if they don’t want him to come.

It sounds to me like Cutler wants to work this out but the Broncos FO doesn’t want it to go away so they can generate support in trading him.. Isn’t that what Cutler has been saying all along?

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 09:21 PM
the sky is falling, the sky is falling


move on folks, if jay is not the QB the world will not stop rotating..

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 09:23 PM
the sky is falling, the sky is falling


move on folks, if jay is not the QB the world will not stop rotating..

Are discussions, and opinions, no longer allowed?

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 09:25 PM
the sky is falling, the sky is falling


move on folks, if jay is not the QB the world will not stop rotating..

Dude you seriously need to get over yourself.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 09:26 PM
Are discussions, and opinions, no longer allowed?


sure they are just like always..

Gamechanger
03-15-2009, 09:28 PM
the sky is falling, the sky is falling


move on folks, if jay is not the QB the world will not stop rotating..

i hope that makes wins because thats the main thing that matters when the season begins

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 09:35 PM
i hope that makes wins because thats the main thing that matters when the season begins

I think almost any competent QB can do well with Joshes system..

we do not need a rocket arm QB to make it work..

We need team player..

and right now I do not see that in jay..

Win or lose this next year as long as we get better in the defensive stats the rest will come..

getlynched47
03-15-2009, 09:43 PM
Are discussions, and opinions, no longer allowed?

When JRWIZ disagrees with a post or opinion...he just tells you to "be quiet"...or shut up in other words :rolleyes:

Broncospsycho77
03-15-2009, 09:54 PM
Win or lose this next year as long as we get better in the defensive stats the rest will come..

That's not true at all...

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 10:06 PM
I think almost any competent QB can do well with Joshes system..

we do not need a rocket arm QB to make it work..

We need team player..

and right now I do not see that in jay..

Win or lose this next year as long as we get better in the defensive stats the rest will come..

Well, hell - then we will just bring Ramsey back, and pay him $100,000 a year if any ole qb will do

Kapaibro
03-15-2009, 10:14 PM
No one has said they are even asking for a new contract.. That is nothing more then a Possibility, IMO that was pretty clear when he said, "It's possible" :coffee:

Okay, you got me.

But if that is in fact what they are doing, then it is a huge insult.

But Jay HAS said many times that he will play for the team, and not the coach, so IMO not attending a TEAM meeting is going back on his word to play for the team.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 10:20 PM
That's not true at all...


let me try again as long as we improve on Defense and remain close to static on Offense regardless who is at QB it is OK BY me.

I want to see improvement.. that is what I was trying to say..

Even if we move up the chart from 29-32 to 22-23 it is a move up the ladder.. as bad as this team was last year it is going to take several years to become a power house again..

We now have the coaching staff to teach the young turks to play their position and most likely will have a scheme in place that makes sense..

unlike the past few years on D..

Kapaibro
03-15-2009, 10:23 PM
The way Clady played we could sign Drew Bledsoe and still be okay on offense.

It's our Defense that sucks arse.

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 10:26 PM
Okay, you got me.

But if that is in fact what they are doing, then it is a huge insult.

But Jay HAS said many times that he will play for the team, and not the coach, so IMO not attending a TEAM meeting is going back on his word to play for the team.

He was coming until the meeting with Josh on Saturday.. For all we know Josh told him not to come, if he showed up and said, I'm only here for my teammates, there would have been division, with the team having to choose a side..

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 10:28 PM
I think almost any competent QB can do well with Joshes system..

we do not need a rocket arm QB to make it work..

We need team player..

and right now I do not see that in jay..

Win or lose this next year as long as we get better in the defensive stats the rest will come..


Well, hell - then we will just bring Ramsey back, and pay him $100,000 a year if any ole qb will do


Carol my eagle friend read my post again..

Almost any competent QB, team player..

I do not remember Ramsey in this conversation..

Broncospsycho77
03-15-2009, 10:29 PM
let me try again as long as we improve on Defense and remain close to static on Offense regardless who is at QB it is OK BY me.

I want to see improvement.. that is what I was trying to say..

Even if we move up the chart from 29-32 to 22-23 it is a move up the ladder.. as bad as this team was last year it is going to take several years to become a power house again..

We now have the coaching staff to teach the young turks to play their position and most likely will have a scheme in place that makes sense..

unlike the past few years on D..

Or... we keep Cutler and all that, drop a few places in the realm of 10-15 (hate him how you want... he's still a pretty good QB, but quarrels and the new system will bring him down) AS WELL AS the slight defensive improvement.

Realistically, that's not gonna happen, and I'll give Jay the benefit of the doubt until tomorrow morning if he doesn't show up, but if we keep with the status quo, the team has the potential to be even BETTER than we'd be with a trade. That's everybody else's justifications here.

fcspikeit
03-15-2009, 10:32 PM
let me try again as long as we improve on Defense and remain close to static on Offense regardless who is at QB it is OK BY me.

I want to see improvement.. that is what I was trying to say..

Even if we move up the chart from 29-32 to 22-23 it is a move up the ladder.. as bad as this team was last year it is going to take several years to become a power house again..

We now have the coaching staff to teach the young turks to play their position and most likely will have a scheme in place that makes sense..

unlike the past few years on D..

Do you honestly think with just any old QB the Broncos can put up anywhere close to the same passing #'s they did last year with Cutler?

You are under valuing him Jr.. At this point I believe the Broncos need him more then he needs the Broncos.. Even if Jay goes to Detroit, their offense on paper looks as good as the Broncos from Last year. Their defense can't be any worse then ours was. Without Cutler we have almost nothing to built upon. Both the offense and defense will have huge question marks..

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 10:34 PM
Cutler to Calvin Johnson. Wow. Remember that for fantasy.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2009, 10:37 PM
It appears Jay is GONE

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/cutler.nfl.broncos.2.958850.html

Broncospsycho77
03-15-2009, 10:38 PM
That's all, folks.

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 10:40 PM
Do you honestly think with just any old QB the Broncos can put up anywhere close to the same passing #'s they did last year with Cutler?

You are under valuing him Jr.. At this point I believe the Broncos need him more then he needs the Broncos.. Even if Jay goes to Detroit, their offense on paper looks as good as the Broncos from Last year. Their defense can't be any worse then ours was. Without Cutler we have almost nothing to built upon. Both the offense and defense will have huge question marks..


I do not think we need 4500 yards year to win.. anything like that is a waste IMHO.. I want to see an nice controlled passing game high percentage low risk and a decent running game and GREAT defense.. that is what wins championships consistently..

I believe that is what Pat wants also or Josh and Nolan would not be here..

Could be wrong on this but he had the pick of the litter and took this two.. over cagey veteran HCs except perhaps Gruden.. everyone else was on the market..

I think your overvaluing jay..

Gamechanger
03-15-2009, 10:40 PM
It appears Jay is GONE

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/cutler.nfl.broncos.2.958850.html

Philadelphia for McNabb, your best bet

bullis26
03-15-2009, 10:40 PM
Do you honestly think with just any old QB the Broncos can put up anywhere close to the same passing #'s they did last year with Cutler?

You are under valuing him Jr.. At this point I believe the Broncos need him more then he needs the Broncos.. Even if Jay goes to Detroit, their offense on paper looks as good as the Broncos from Last year. Their defense can't be any worse then ours was. Without Cutler we have almost nothing to built upon. Both the offense and defense will have huge question marks..

they have CJ, and they have kevin smith.... theyre line sucks, mcdonald is there #2 guy and he's done nothing for awhile, and there TE's arent good either, heres what theyd have on us the 2008 broncos with cutler, and the 2009 lions with cutler, QB - Equal Rb-Lions WR #1 - Equal WR #2 - Broncos Slot - Broncos TEs - Broncos LT - Broncos LG - Broncos C- Broncos RG - Broncos RT - Broncos... how do they look just as good as us on paper? they definately would need to take jason smith #1 which now seams likely, but they do have a defensive minded coach so you dont know