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Lonestar
03-14-2009, 03:50 PM
Mar. 10, 2009 By Sam Adams

Trade Jay Cutler. Now.

No more cell phone calls. No more e-mails. No more text messages. No more drama.

Cutler has been hot and bothered ever since he learned from second-hand sources that new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels engaged in trade talks involving the three-year veteran quarterback.

Word is that Cutler and McDaniels attempted to resolve their issues via conference call this week, with owner Pat Bowlen on the line, as well. This should have been a face-to-face meeting, with Bowlen sending a private jet to reel in his prized quarterback for the session, if necessary. Bowlen does still see Cutler as a “prized” possession, doesn’t he?

I don’t.

Cutler is Mike Shanahan’s guy. And we know what happened to Shanahan. He got fired by his long-time friend, Bowlen.

I’m not saying Bowlen doesn’t believe in Cutler. But it’s almost crystal-clear that McDaniels hasn’t bought into the Cutler magic.

Let’s talk about that Cutler magic. If you missed a previous post here, I have labeled Cutler a “Mr. Potential-head”. Mr. Potential-heads are guys who are supposed to be brilliant — except you get average when it matters most.

The NFL is full of Mr. Potential-heads.

Fact is, when it comes to Cutler’s first 37 NFL starts, he’s been every bit as average as he has been brilliant. But we’re not to dwell on Cutler’s record as a starting quarterback in the league, which is 17-20. To be fair, the Broncos’ defense has caved in during many of those losses. Still, ask yourself: What has Cutler shown that deems him brilliant — an arm stronger than John Elway’s? Cutler said it, I didn’t.

This is certain. Strong-armed quarterbacks have passed through the NFL time and time again. Most times you’ll hear the name Jeff George mentioned.

Do they always find the open receiver? No. Do they always win games? No. Are they headaches for head coaches. Usually.

Cutler has an abundance of talent. He’s 26 years old, a durable young man who has shown a willingness to play through pain. Something real important must be missing from his arsenal for McDaniels to talk trade.

The question must be asked, how committed has Cutler been during the off-season to learning McDaniels’ offense?

McDaniels has a head-coaching job in the NFL at age 32. To me, someone in his position at this age. must be consumed by the game. You know — he eats, sleeps, drinks, talks, sings and Twitters the game of football.

It’s just my belief, but maybe Cutler isn’t into all of that obsessive study and preparation stuff. Give him the playbook and he’ll figure it out.

Except McDaniels knows his system.

McDaniels knows you just don’t “figure it out” in the snap of a finger. Maybe the coach knows his quarterback needs to invest more time. Again, it’s just me here, but I wonder if Cutler has shown a willingness to put in extra time necessary for a quarterback to learn the new system. Maybe Cutler has. Or maybe he hasn’t, and in the process has angered McDaniels.

If the quarterback isn’t willing to commit to the coach, then there’s one sure solution to solving the problem.

Trade Cutler.

Where, you ask? Start with a three-team deal involving the Dallas Cowboys.

After all, isn’t that where Shanahan is expected to land about, oh, midseason?

Or how about a three-way deal involving the quarterback Class of ‘06 —Cutler to Tennessee, Matt Leinart to Denver and Vince Young to Arizona.

Admit it — it’s interesting to note that the first three quarterbacks selected in ‘06 are having issues with their teams. Cutler is the only one of the three who hasn’t been benched.

Being a bit more serious, reopen those talks with the Detroit Lions. Or call the Carolina Panthers. I’d take a Cutler-for-Julius Peppers deal in a second.

Peppers just turned 29 coming off a Pro Bowl season. He’s the dominant defensive lineman the Broncos have sought for quite some time. I’m certain Champ Bailey would love to have someone actually chase the quarterback.

Who replaces Cutler at quarterback? I don’t have that answer. Maybe you sign a veteran like Jeff Garcia, select a quarterback in the draft and take your chances. Throw a late-round pick at Cleveland and take a flier on Derek Anderson too.

Just remember all great quarterbacks don’t come from the first round. Joe Montana was a third-round pick. Tom Brady was picked in the sixth round.

How’d that work out?

All great quarterbacks don’t win championships. Trent Dilfer was average at best when he won a Super Bowl with the Baltimore Ravens. Oh, but the Ravens had a great defense.

Brad Johnson was the quarterback for Tampa Bay’s Super Bowl championship team. Oh, but the Buccaneers had a great defense.

The Broncos defense, as it currently is structured, isn’t championship material. So just how good should we expect the team to be this season with Cutler playing a brutal schedule (on paper and computer screen) that includes Pittsburgh, Dallas, New England, Philadelphia, Baltimore, the New York Giants and San Diego (twice).

No, no, no. You can’t trade Cutler because he’s, well, irreplaceable. He’s going to be great, and you don’t trade greatness. Right?

Wrong.

I checked the winners of the previous 43 Super Bowls. None of them had a quarterback named Cutler. Checked the list of Broncos quarterbacks who have led the team to the playoffs. Cutler’s name was noticeably absent.

The point here is, it’s a proven fact you can win football games in the NFL without Jay Cutler.

What have you got to lose by trading him?

http://www.iwantmyrocky.com/2009/03/...thing-to-lose/

honz
03-14-2009, 03:52 PM
JR has found his new whipping boy.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 03:53 PM
JR has found his new whipping boy.


No just bringing the news fair and balanced just call me le fox..

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 04:00 PM
Mar. 3, 2009
By Sam Adams

Less than 24 hours after the Rocky Mountain News closed its doors for good, Broncos coach Josh McDaniels all but lost his mind.

Who knew what effect we had on the sanity of young Coach Mickey D?

McDaniels’ first major free agent signing of the off-season is a veteran defensive back who is three years older than the head coach. Safety Brian Dawkins comes over from the Philadelphia Eagles. He’s expected to provide leadership for the Broncos defense.

Personally, I’m thinking leadership is necessary, but can only go so far in keeping Philip Rivers from connecting with passes to Antonio Gates and Vincent Jackson. At age 35, just how fast do we expect Dawkins to be in pass coverage?

Never mind the contract length — five years. Dawkins won’t be around at age 40. He’ll probably be done after this season if the Broncos don’t find some quality pass rushers to chase and sack the quarterback and make the job for the secondary a lot easier.

Ah yes, there’s that quarterback controversy/issue/stuff. Seems Mickey D thought about trading Jay Cutler. For Matt Cassel. I get it. Sort of.

McDaniels and Cassel worked together quite well under duress in New England last season. Tom Brady went out with a season-ending knee injury in the first regular season game.

Cassel threw only 33 passes in college and held a mop in three NFL seasons behind Brady. He came on and threw for over 3,600 yards and 21 touchdowns.

The Patriots won 11 games but missed the playoffs on tie-breakers.

Cutler threw for more than 4,500 yards and 25 touchdowns. He was voted to the Pro Bowl. The Broncos won eight games, blew a three-game lead in the division and missed the playoffs on a tie-breaker with the San Diego Chargers.

Actually, Denver missed the postseason on an embarrassing nationally-televised blowout loss in San Diego. Or you could pin it on the numbing loss at home to the inept Buffalo Bills or the Broncos lack of effort in a beat-down at Carolina the week before that.

Or you could point to a blowout loss at home to the Oakland Raiders, a beating earlier in the year at Kansas City, or poor outings at home in losses against Jacksonville and Miami — all games in which Cutler turnovers helped put the Broncos in holes they could not escape.

And I didn’t even mention referee Ed Hochuli’s blown call, which gave the Broncos a lucky win at home over San Diego. Without Hochuli, the Broncos would have finished 7-9 for the second year in a row.

Now before you go all crazy about me laying blame on Cutler and overlooking the Broncos pathetic defense, let’s get one thing straight. I’m not overlooking the Broncos defense. They were pathetic. But the quarterback didn’t help the cause.

See, to me, if Cutler were to cut down on his mistakes (go back and count his interceptions and fumbles over the last two seasons), that pathetic defense isn’t on the field as much. Maybe they give up 399 points instead of 448.

Actually, the Broncos defense didn’t give up 448 points in 2008. Interceptions that are returned for touchdowns shouldn’t count on the defense’s ledger.

So back to this Cutler-McDaniels thing. Maybe Coach Mickey D watches film and sees major flaws in Cutler’s game. Maybe Cutler doesn’t have quite the same work ethic or study habits as Cassel. Maybe the coach is expecting something more from his new quarterback than what he’s seen so far in the off-season.

Or maybe Coach Mickey D just had a mental hiccup. You know, the classic brain fart that leads you to pick up phone and talk trades with Tampa Bay and Detroit, dangling a first-year Pro Bowl quarterback as the primary bait.

Whatever the case, McDaniels wanted Cassel. Didn’t get him. Cutler was hurt, bitter, upset and angry. The two will meet soon to clear the air. And maybe they will sit and go over some of the new playbook too.

Cutler’s got major NFL talent, but at last check, he’s not a great quarterback. He’s just reaching the “good” level, by my book. Still a Mr. Potential-head after three NFL seasons.

He hasn’t won a playoff game. He hasn’t been to a playoff game.

Four times the Broncos have played games with Cutler at quarterback and a playoff berth at stake. They lost to San Francisco in the regular season finale in 2006. They lost three times in a row with a chance to clinch the AFC West in ‘08.

For his career Cutler has a record of 17-20 as a starting quarterback. In the NFL, it’s all about winning games — especially big games. He hasn’t proven himself yet as a big-game winner. Same holds true for Mickey D. He’s got Super Bowl rings — three of ‘em — with the Patriots.

None, however, have been earned as a head coach.

McDaniels can’t have Cassel. He could have Jeff Garcia, Byron Leftwich, Gus Frerotte or Brad Johnson. Those guys are available in free agency. Or Coach Mickey D can kiss and make up with Jay Cutler.

And Cutler can check his ego at the door, spend more time working on his game with the new coach and realize that actions on the field, not pouting off it, is what wins championships in the NFL.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 04:01 PM
Great article and it makes a lot of sense.

I really like football player Cutler, but he reminds me so much of a teenage girl, who wants to break up with her boyfriend, and then gets upset when her boyfriend breaks up with her first.

McDaniels was honoring Cutler's wishes when he said he wanted to be traded.

So McDaniels honors his wish by pondering a trade offer that was brought to him, but ultimately McDaniels decides against it because a good QB like Cassel and 2 first round picks wasn't worth as much as Cutler.

Then Cutler gets upset, and uses the "you thought about trading me" notion to deflect the blame onto McDaniels because McDaniels decided against trading him.

I like Cutler, but if he doesn't wanna be here, maybe we should just trade him.

dogfish
03-14-2009, 04:03 PM
terrible article-- someone should punch ol' sam in the mouth for even submitting that schwill. . . he starts with pure, complete speculation without even a shred of evidence, and then he suggests we should ship out cutty and replace with with that useless chode matt leinart? the guy's a bum, with a body made of glass-- i said before the draft that he never had a chance in the NFL, and that's exactly how his career has played out so far. . . i wouldn't trade a bag of jocks straps for leinart. . .

Broncospsycho77
03-14-2009, 04:12 PM
I don't wanna sell my $75 Jay Cutler jersey. I haven't even worn it yet.

UnderArmour
03-14-2009, 04:13 PM
I can't believe people are actually taking the side of trading away Cutler. Trading away Cutler sets this franchise back another 10 years. **** that.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-14-2009, 04:16 PM
I can't believe people are actually taking the side of trading away Cutler. Trading away Cutler sets this franchise back another 10 years. **** that.

...cuz right now, we're on top of the mountain.

UnderArmour
03-14-2009, 04:57 PM
...cuz right now, we're on top of the mountain.

Let's just trade for the rights to Jake Plummer again while we're at it. :rolleyes:

NameUsedBefore
03-14-2009, 05:01 PM
No just bringing the news fair and balanced just call me le fox..

Indeed...

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2009, 05:06 PM
I love when people throw out the false dilemmas that this franchise will be set back for ten years or we're doomed if we trade Cutler. Like SA said, we're not at the top of a ******* mountain. This team is rebuilding. Yeah, getting rid of a potential franchise guy (well, I'd call him a franchise guy) might not be the best idea, but if it can help us potentially improve in other areas -- I'm interested in fielding offers.

I think McDaniels runs a system where you don't need someone of Cutler's caliber to succeed or do well. Just look at Cassel. We'll see what happens. If Cutler isn't interested in being long-term, it is rightfully understandable and reasonable to unload him before he walks and we get nothing. Well, we'd get a third-round compensatory selection, but come on. . .

We'll see what happens.

elsid13
03-14-2009, 05:14 PM
Let me make if simple for everyone. The best talent on the field wins football games, not system. All the system does is provide a framework for putting a player somewhere on the field. It the player that execute and actually does something, not the coaches.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 05:19 PM
Let me make if simple for everyone. The best talent on the field wins football games, not system.

Yea, tell that to teams like Washington, San Diego, Arizona, Miami, Dallas, Jacksonville, Houston, New England, Oakland, and Tampa Bay.

claymore
03-14-2009, 05:21 PM
I love when people throw out the false dilemmas that this franchise will be set back for ten years or we're doomed if we trade Cutler. Like SA said, we're not at the top of a ******* mountain. This team is rebuilding. Yeah, getting rid of a potential franchise guy (well, I'd call him a franchise guy) might not be the best idea, but if it can help us potentially improve in other areas -- I'm interested in fielding offers.

I think McDaniels runs a system where you don't need someone of Cutler's caliber to succeed or do well. Just look at Cassel. We'll see what happens. If Cutler isn't interested in being long-term, it is rightfully understandable and reasonable to unload him before he walks and we get nothing. Well, we'd get a third-round compensatory selection, but come on. . .

We'll see what happens.

Allot was put on Cutlers shoulders when he got here. He has dealt with more pressure than any person on the team, and was told he was the man. Undoubtedly he is a little peeved at the lack of loyalty. I was and am shocked myself.

I am open to trading him, but I havent seen a trade scenario that would make us a better team.

In Sassin's Trade thread I said I would do it for Matt Ryan, and Michael turner. I was serious. That trade would make us a better team. Getting 2 firsts does not, nor does a 1st and a third.

Even if we got Beanie Wells and BJ raji out of the draft, it doesnt make us better. Losing a Good QB with a huge ceiling. A QB whose Floor is Pro Bowl Quality.
I want to see if McD and him can take it to a whole Nuther level. If they do, Than there isnt a trade out there that can equal it.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2009, 05:21 PM
When you can acquire and get players that fit the scheme you're running, it certainly helps. Teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore and others have been able to successfully address needs on their defense in later rounds and plug in players who buy into their identity and fit what the coaches want and still have success. I feel the same can be done with McDaniels and whoever is quarterbacking the offense. Yes, the talent needs to be there -- but I don't think we necessarily need a top caliber QB to be successful.

Quite honestly, I think a healthy Chris Simms could do some great things in Denver.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2009, 05:24 PM
It has the potential to make us better, adding players like that. The same argument could be made that having a malcontent quarterback who isn't interested in having a quality relationship with the coach or ownership isn't good for the team. (AKA, wouldn't make us better.) We could argue that all day.

I think by trading Cutler, you do lose some things. However, you have the potential to gain some wonderful things as well. Always two sides to the coin.

claymore
03-14-2009, 05:24 PM
When you can acquire and get players that fit the scheme you're running, it certainly helps. Teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore and others have been able to successfully address needs on their defense in later rounds and plug in players who buy into their identity and fit what the coaches want and still have success. I feel the same can be done with McDaniels and whoever is quarterbacking the offense. Yes, the talent needs to be there -- but I don't think we necessarily need a top caliber QB to be successful.

Quite honestly, I think a healthy Chris Simms could do some great things in Denver.

Neither one of those teams did shit without their QB situation solidified. Flacco Just happened last year. Flacco and Big Ben are untouchable. Just like Cutler Should be.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 05:25 PM
I love when people throw out the false dilemmas that this franchise will be set back for ten years or we're doomed if we trade Cutler. Like SA said, we're not at the top of a ******* mountain. This team is rebuilding. Yeah, getting rid of a potential franchise guy (well, I'd call him a franchise guy) might not be the best idea, but if it can help us potentially improve in other areas -- I'm interested in fielding offers.

I think McDaniels runs a system where you don't need someone of Cutler's caliber to succeed or do well. Just look at Cassel. We'll see what happens. If Cutler isn't interested in being long-term, it is rightfully understandable and reasonable to unload him before he walks and we get nothing. Well, we'd get a third-round compensatory selection, but come on. . .

We'll see what happens.

even better yet if he is not excited about being a more restrained QB than he was under mikey then it behooves everyone himself included to learn the system and play lights out to increase his trade value. Next season after we have groomed his replacement for a year..

That is what should come out of their first sits down..

hey Coach I know this is gonna be tough to get over for both of us..

here is a plan.. I'll bust my balls this next season to make me so desirable to every team in the league.. To maximize my next contract and the amount of trade value I have for Y'all..

This year Y'all can draft someone to replace me and IF I do not like the system we can part ways next off season..

Trade me some where I can get a great contract, be happy and you can get a couple of #1's for me.. We will then see each other in the Superbowl for the next 5-6 years..

claymore
03-14-2009, 05:25 PM
It has the potential to make us better, adding players like that. The same argument could be made that having a malcontent quarterback who isn't interested in having a quality relationship with the coach or ownership isn't good for the team. (AKA, wouldn't make us better.) We could argue that all day.

I think by trading Cutler, you do lose some things. However, you have the potential to gain some wonderful things as well. Always two sides to the coin.

If you have a star player trading him in his 3rd year for potential is silly.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 05:28 PM
Pittsburgh and Baltimore did it the right way.

They got their franchise QB AFTER their team was established.

Huge difference, and big mistake for Denver, and more importantly Shanahan to ignore almost every position but the QB one.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2009, 05:33 PM
Neither one of those teams did shit without their QB situation solidified. Flacco Just happened last year. Flacco and Big Ben are untouchable. Just like Cutler Should be.

Those teams are solidified by their defenses and the scheme the run. It is effective. I'm thrilled Denver hired a coach that is going to go that route on our defense. Those teams could win if I was back there throwing the ball.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 05:35 PM
Those teams are solidified by their defenses and the scheme the run. It is effective. I'm thrilled Denver hired a coach that is going to go that route on our defense. Those teams could win if I was back there throwing the ball.



lets not go quite there yet..:D

But a good system QB that does not make critical mistakes makes a huge difference..

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2009, 05:37 PM
If you have a star player trading him in his 3rd year for potential is silly.

Is it silly if there is a strong indication that he does not want to re-sign with the team or work well with the head coach? If that is the case, trading him is probably the best idea. Now, if that isn't the case -- then obviously not; but I honestly believe that there is more "mud" to the situation than "clarity." I hope I'm wrong, because I'd love to see Cutler be a perennial Pro-Bowler here in Denver. I think we all would. However, that just might not be a reality anymore.

Hopefully we'll know more after Monday and the following week. I guess that's the funny thing about being on the sidelines as fans. We truly will never know what actually or really goes on. Only bits and pieces. Frustrating, interesting and exciting at the same time. That's why I love football. Shit like this doesn't necessarily bother me. I think it's interesting.

Our team always seems to have crazy stuff going on. Some of it has been disheartening and sad (tragedies of D-Will and Nash) -- but these controversies have been interesting and inspiring in many ways. It gives us something to talk about. Sure, some of the talk gets ridiculous and crazy -- but hey, I'd rather be a Broncos fan with all this chaos than a Detroit Lions fan who quite honestly has nothing to ever look forward to. EVER.

:lol:

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2009, 05:38 PM
lets not go quite there yet..:D

But a good system QB that does not make critical mistakes makes a huge difference..

Hyperbole my friend, but yeah -- what you're saying. I think if Nolan can come in here within a year or so and establish our defense to a top fifteen caliber one (which is twice as good as we are right now) -- someone like Chris Simms. . . or perhaps a Graham Harrell (just tossing out a name of a QB in the draft this year for fun) could manage games for us.

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 05:39 PM
It's just stupid to even ponder the idea of trading a 25 year old, Pro Bowl quarterback who hasn't even hit his peak.

Requiem / The Dagda
03-14-2009, 05:52 PM
It's just stupid to even ponder the idea of trading a 25 year old, Pro Bowl quarterback who hasn't even hit his peak.

Really? What if Jay doesn't want to be with here or there is a strong indication he wouldn't be interested in re-signing after his contract is up? You're right. Having a malcontent on the team is definitely in our best interest. That has got to be good for team unity and leadership in the locker room.

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 05:54 PM
Really? What if Jay doesn't want to be with here or there is a strong indication he wouldn't be interested in re-signing after his contract is up? You're right. Having a malcontent on the team is definitely in our best interest. That has got to be good for team unity and leadership in the locker room.

Jay Cutler says he cares for his teammates. He would not be a locker room distraction.

And winning cures everything. In 3 years, it will all blow over and after Marshall gets a long term contract, Jay Cutler is next.

There is no reason to trade Jay Cutler.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 05:57 PM
Jay Cutler says he cares for his teammates. He would not be a locker room distraction.

I think he cares for the offense, because that's what he plays.

I don't think he gives a rip about the defense, especially after calling them out through the media at a time when he himself wasn't performing.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 05:57 PM
Jay Cutler says he cares for his teammates. He would not be a locker room distraction.

And winning cures everything. In 3 years, it will all blow over and after Marshall gets a long term contract, Jay Cutler is next.

There is no reason to trade Jay Cutler.

he already has been..

Watchthemiddle
03-14-2009, 06:06 PM
I can't believe people are actually taking the side of trading away Cutler. Trading away Cutler sets this franchise back another 10 years. **** that.

DUDE...if we can make the AFFCG with Plummer, you don't think we can find another QB out there without all the drama to win games for us?

CUtler is not the end all be all. Everyone seems to think without him at the helm we are doomed. Well, we have been doomed since he was HANDED the job with a record of 7-4 only to go on to well.....we all know his win/lose record.

Anyone can come in here and go 17-20.

broncohead
03-14-2009, 06:21 PM
I think he cares for the offense, because that's what he plays.

I don't think he gives a rip about the defense, especially after calling them out through the media at a time when he himself wasn't performing.

You call out Cutler when he isn't worshiping the ground McD steps on but critisize him when he calls out the defense. As the QB your a team leader and he has every right to.

SmilinAssasSin27
03-14-2009, 06:22 PM
Hyperbole my friend, but yeah -- what you're saying. I think if Nolan can come in here within a year or so and establish our defense to a top fifteen caliber one (which is twice as good as we are right now) -- someone like Chris Simms. . . or perhaps a Graham Harrell (just tossing out a name of a QB in the draft this year for fun) could manage games for us.

Oddly enough...I was thinking that myself just the other day. Would Graham Harrell fit this offense and would McD take a flier on him on day 2? Not saying he will, but it'd completely blow Dove Valley into a tailspin. It'd be great TV.

broncohead
03-14-2009, 06:24 PM
DUDE...if we can make the AFFCG with Plummer, you don't think we can find another QB out there without all the drama to win games for us?

CUtler is not the end all be all. Everyone seems to think without him at the helm we are doomed. Well, we have been doomed since he was HANDED the job with a record of 7-4 only to go on to well.....we all know his win/lose record.

Anyone can come in here and go 17-20.

If you think any QB can come in and win with this defense you must not know to much about the game.

UnderArmour
03-14-2009, 06:27 PM
DUDE...if we can make the AFFCG with Plummer, you don't think we can find another QB out there without all the drama to win games for us?

CUtler is not the end all be all. Everyone seems to think without him at the helm we are doomed. Well, we have been doomed since he was HANDED the job with a record of 7-4 only to go on to well.....we all know his win/lose record.

Anyone can come in here and go 17-20.

Jake Plummer had a defense and a running game when this team got to the AFC Championship and made the playoffs those consecutive years. That's fine and dandy, you'll get lucky once every few years and win a playoff game. Talk to Jacksonville and Minnesota fans, they sure as hell aren't happy with their QB situations. They would LOVE to have a Jay Cutler. I don't think you understand how lucky we are to be Broncos fans, the goal is to win the Super Bowl not just to make the playoffs consecutive years.

This past season we had 6 RBs on IR and the worst defense in the NFL, by some miracle Jay Cutler leads this team to 8-8 and one game away from making the playoffs. Not anybody could have done that. Not anybody could lead the #2 offense in the NFL with a defense this horrible. It's downright laughable that you'd even imply that if we had another QB we would have been better off the past two seasons. Teams like Tampa Bay aren't having luck winning Super Bowls anymore, this is becoming a more quarterback centric league. If you want to win a Super Bowl, there has to be that franchise QB in place. Cutler is that guy. Trading him sets us back, there is absolutely no question about that.

Watchthemiddle
03-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Jake Plummer had a defense and a running game when this team got to the AFC Championship and made the playoffs those consecutive years. That's fine and dandy, you'll get lucky once every few years and win a playoff game. Talk to Jacksonville and Minnesota fans, they sure as hell aren't happy with their QB situations. They would LOVE to have a Jay Cutler. I don't think you understand how lucky we are to be Broncos fans, the goal is to win the Super Bowl not just to make the playoffs consecutive years.

This past season we had 6 RBs on IR and the worst defense in the NFL, by some miracle Jay Cutler leads this team to 8-8 and one game away from making the playoffs. Not anybody could have done that. Not anybody could lead the #2 offense in the NFL with a defense this horrible. It's downright laughable that you'd even imply that if we had another QB we would have been better off the past two seasons. Teams like Tampa Bay aren't having luck winning Super Bowls anymore, this is becoming a more quarterback centric league. If you want to win a Super Bowl, there has to be that franchise QB in place. Cutler is that guy. Trading him sets us back, there is absolutely no question about that.


I disagree.

Cugel
03-14-2009, 06:38 PM
Who replaces Cutler at quarterback? I don’t have that answer. Maybe you sign a veteran like Jeff Garcia, select a quarterback in the draft and take your chances. Throw a late-round pick at Cleveland and take a flier on Derek Anderson too.

You know. When you write absolute crap like that you should just lose your job. If you have one. They should just take this garbage and shove it up where the sun don't shine! And tell this flaming moron: "I'm sorry. You're just too stupid to live! We're firing your ass. Go back to delivering pizzas for Pizza Hut for a living.

"Fire Jay Cutler! Who's going to replace him? I don't know! Maybe Jeff Garcia. Or maybe they can "take a flier on Derek Anderson" because THAT's such a brilliant idea that's bound to work."

"Oh, and then I'll throw in a mention of Tom Brady, because every QB taken in the 6th round is bound to wind up being another Tom Brady, so it's EASY Broncos! You just throw a pin at the wall and hope that in 3 or 4 years you have another Jay Cutler, instead say of Vince Young or Matt Leinart, or perhaps Kyle Boller or Byron Leftwich (former #7 pick) or Alex Smith (#1 overall pick)!

And the fact that you need three years for a rookie QB to be ready to play in the NFL and what the hell does the team do in the meantime? I don't worry about stuff like that, because my head is filled with straw!

And besides! The Ravens won a SB with the best defense in NFL history and Trent Dilfer at QB, so obviously the Broncos would be FINE with the NFL's WORST defense and Derek Anderson!

I'm not even going to mention what happened to Brian Billick after he pinned his job future to Kyle Boller, because I can't remember back before last week!

Just FIRE Cutler, because I hate "all this drama" and then when the team wins 4 or 5 games this season and 10 over the next two years with some great QB like Jeff Garcia or Kyle Boller or Derek freakin' Anderson, and then McDaniels gets FIRED, well, that's not MY fault!"

I'm just some imbecile who writes crap on the internet for a living! Who would have thought the Broncos would actually DO something a colossal useless wind-bag like me recommends?!

Honestly! I couldn't find my butt with both hands! Why would anybody listen to me?!" :coffee:

SmilinAssasSin27
03-14-2009, 06:39 PM
...this is becoming a more quarterback centric league. If you want to win a Super Bowl, there has to be that franchise QB in place. Cutler is that guy. Trading him sets us back, there is absolutely no question about that.

Roethlisberger (who a LOT of Steeler fans still don't like) and a rookie played in the AFCCG. Neither are world beaters. They do manage the game pretty well and keep their teams in it til the end. Rivers and Manning are the 2 "studs" of the AFC and they were bounced.



Now it's true that 2 very good QBs played in the NFCCG, but the AFC won the big game.

I'm never gonna BASH the franchise QBs, but I think it's safe to say you CAN win the SB w/ a gunslinger.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 06:57 PM
You call out Cutler when he isn't worshiping the ground McD steps on but critisize him when he calls out the defense.

Way to completely reach for the stars on that one. Who said anything about calling out Cutler for not worshipping McD? He's pissed because McD didn't trade him. Remember, he asked to be traded first.



As the QB your a team leader and he has every right to.

As the team leader, you better dam well make sure you're covering your end out on the field before you call out somebody else. Instead of calling out the defense, he should have been apologizing for throwing 2 TD's and 4 INT's in the 3 biggest games of the season. Way to completely miss the boat on that one too.

Watchthemiddle
03-14-2009, 07:01 PM
Roethlisberger (who a LOT of Steeler fans still don't like) and a rookie played in the AFCCG. Neither are world beaters. They do manage the game pretty well and keep their teams in it til the end. Rivers and Manning are the 2 "studs" of the AFC and they were bounced.



Now it's true that 2 very good QBs played in the NFCCG, but the AFC won the big game.

I'm never gonna BASH the franchise QBs, but I think it's safe to say you CAN win the SB w/ a gunslinger.

Is that supposed to say win the SB without a gunslinger?

If so, I agree. How many gunslingers have actually won the SB besides Farve ( 1 ) and Elway ( 2)?

Montana? not a gunslinger
Brady? Not
Manning ( both of them ) not
Roth? not
Aikman? Not
Dillfer? Not


Just because you have a rocket arm doesn't mean jack. YOu have to have a good head on your shoulders above all else, and its clear Jay does not have that quality. Its clear on the field with his terrible decisions, and its clear off the field with his decision now to act like a child.

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 07:03 PM
he already has been..

How has he been a locker room distraction if he hasnt BEEN in the locker room since this incident started? :rolleyes:

Broncospsycho77
03-14-2009, 07:06 PM
Way to completely reach for the stars on that one. Who said anything about calling out Cutler for not worshipping McD? He's pissed because McD didn't trade him. Remember, he asked to be traded first.

You don't know that. He may have gotten over not being traded... it's not logical to assume stuff like that when nobody knows. Just saying... a bit hyperbolic to what's actually going on.


As the team leader, you better dam well make sure you're covering your end out on the field before you call out somebody else. Instead of calling out the defense, he should have been apologizing for throwing 2 TD's and 4 INT's in the 3 biggest games of the season. Way to completely miss the boat on that one too.

Yeah, he didn't play perfect all season, but, realistically, he wasn't the overriding problem.

The news itself doesn't piss me off, but how everybody is driving to extremes about the situation really drives me crazy. I'm not here defending Jay, but there's certain truths that are known and certain things people are grasping at. We just. Don't. Know.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 07:14 PM
You don't know that. He may have gotten over not being traded... it's not logical to assume stuff like that when nobody knows. Just saying... a bit hyperbolic to what's actually going on.

This is a good argument, and I'm going to save it for the next poster that calls McDaniels out as an "idiot" who's trying to trade away Cutler".



Yeah, he didn't play perfect all season, but, realistically, he wasn't the overriding problem.

Then don't go calling someone else out for not doing their job. Cutler could be considered a hypocrite for that.



The news itself doesn't piss me off, but how everybody is driving to extremes about the situation really drives me crazy. I'm not here defending Jay, but there's certain truths that are known and certain things people are grasping at. We just. Don't. Know.

Another good argument I'm going to save for all the people that are trying to make McDaniels out to be the bad guy in this.

fcspikeit
03-14-2009, 07:19 PM
I checked the winners of the previous 43 Super Bowls. None of them had a quarterback named Cutler. Checked the list of Broncos quarterbacks who have led the team to the playoffs. Cutler’s name was noticeably absent.

The point here is, it’s a proven fact you can win football games in the NFL without Jay Cutler.

What have you got to lose by trading him?

http://www.iwantmyrocky.com/2009/03/...thing-to-lose/

In his career, in regular-season games in which the opposing team scored 30 points or more, his record is 6-22. His name? Peyton Manning.

In his career, in regular-season games in which the opposing teams scored 30 points or more, his record was 6-31. His name? John Elway. (Bear in mind, Elway had more wins then any QB ever to play when he retired)

So please tell me again how it was Cutler faults the Broncos missed the playoffs the last 2 years with a defense that was giving up an average of around 30 points a game? :coffee:


As Yoda would say, an ass clown is he..

Watchthemiddle
03-14-2009, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by Broncospsycho77
The news itself doesn't piss me off, but how everybody is driving to extremes about the situation really drives me crazy. I'm not here defending Jay, but there's certain truths that are known and certain things people are grasping at. We just. Don't. Know.

Yup truths like McDaniels coming out the day this story broke saying that THE BRONCOS were contacted by other teams and Jay is his guy and he is not trading him.

Funny how Jay wants to try and read between the lines when there is nothing there and make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Watchthemiddle
03-14-2009, 07:21 PM
In his career, in regular-season games in which the opposing team scored 30 points or more, his record is 6-22. His name? Peyton Manning.

In his career, in regular-season games in which the opposing teams scored 30 points or more, his record was 6-31. His name? John Elway. (Bear in mind, Elway had more wins then any QB ever to play when he retired)

So please tell me again how it was Cutler faults the Broncos missed the playoffs the last 2 years with a defense that was giving up an average of around 30 points a game? :coffee:


As Yoda would say, an ass clown is he..


Cutler sure didn't help matters much by throwing int's inside the redzone...namely at the goal line. How is that the defense's fault again?

OrangeHoof
03-14-2009, 07:22 PM
With articles like Sam Adams', it's no wonder the RMN folded.

Cutler is "Mr. Potential-Head"? So what is McDiapers? What has *he* done other than direct offenses that couldn't win the Super Bowl despite one of the league's best talent bases?

Take a look around, McDiapers. You see Randy Moss in camp? Tom Brady? Lawrence Mulroney? No. You see Seldom Young. Peyton Hillis. You see Brandon Marshall when he's not in lockup. The only piece of the puzzle you have that's golden is your QB and you seem intent on pissing him off and running him out of town.

Maybe Cutler just needs to be convinced he won't have to teach his new head coach how to shave.

Okay, trade him, Sam. For what? Matt Leinart? Derek Anderson? That's the best you can do? By the way, Sam-I-Aint, three-way trades are hard to do in the NFL (or any sport) because all it takes is one GM to get greedy and the whole thing blows up.

Come back when you've got an intelligent trade proposal. Until then, you're wasting our time. Good luck on your new job writing for the Greensheet, Sam.

broncohead
03-14-2009, 07:22 PM
[QUOTE]Way to completely reach for the stars on that one. Who said anything about calling out Cutler for not worshipping McD? He's pissed because McD didn't trade him. Remember, he asked to be traded first.

Was there ever a credible source stating that Cutler demanded a trade?


As the team leader, you better dam well make sure you're covering your end out on the field before you call out somebody else. Instead of calling out the defense, he should have been apologizing for throwing 2 TD's and 4 INT's in the 3 biggest games of the season. Way to completely miss the boat on that one too.

For one it's not a 1 man show. 11 players on offense did enough this season for a 20th ranked defense to get to the playoffs. The other half of the team didn't do anything all year. Cutler did make mistakes but point to 1 player in the NFL who doesn't.

Broncospsycho77
03-14-2009, 07:23 PM
Both sides haven't handled the press with too much class.

I'm still waiting for something... anything... from Bowlen.

fcspikeit
03-14-2009, 07:23 PM
No just bringing the news fair and balanced just call me le fox..

Balanced right, So when are you going to post one of the many threads that aren't aimed at attacking Cutler? :confused:

Everyone knows which side your on Jr, you have the right to your opinion, as everyone else does.. But I really hope you don't think your fooling anyone into thinking your balanced :laugh: :laugh:

broncohead
03-14-2009, 07:25 PM
Cutler sure didn't help matters much by throwing int's inside the redzone...namely at the goal line. How is that the defense's fault again?

Did you read his post?

fcspikeit
03-14-2009, 07:30 PM
Cutler sure didn't help matters much by throwing int's inside the redzone...namely at the goal line. How is that the defense's fault again?

I'm sure Mannings incredible 6-22 and Elways blistering 6-31 records had nothing to do with them either :laugh:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o315/fcspikeit/Fail/fail-2.jpg

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 07:33 PM
Was there ever a credible source stating that Cutler demanded a trade?

Was there ever a credible source stating that McDaniels was actively trying to trade Cutler?




For one it's not a 1 man show. 11 players on offense did enough this season for a 20th ranked defense to get to the playoffs. The other half of the team didn't do anything all year. Cutler did make mistakes but point to 1 player in the NFL who doesn't.

Point to one player in the NFL that makes as many mistakes as Cutler did in those last 3 games, and then calls out the defense for not doing their job.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 08:28 PM
How has he been a locker room distraction if he hasnt BEEN in the locker room since this incident started? :rolleyes:


anytime your a disruption albeit not in the lockeroom per see it is an issue for the rest of the team..

Getting arrested for DUI.. is not in the locker room nor is wife beating but anything that causes your teammates to take their eye off the program or ball is a disruption..

distraction   [di-strak-shuhn] –noun
1. the act of distracting.
2. the state of being distracted.
3. mental distress or derangement: That child will drive me to distraction.
4. that which distracts, divides the attention, or prevents concentration: The distractions of the city interfere with my studies.
5. that which amuses, entertains, or diverts; amusement; entertainment: Fishing is his major distraction.
6. division or disorder caused by dissension; tumult.


NEXT:coffee:

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 08:34 PM
anytime your a disruption albeit not in the lockeroom per see it is an issue for the rest of the team..

Getting arrested for DUI.. is not in the locker room nor is wife beating but anything that causes your teammates to take their eye off the program or ball is a disruption..

distraction   [di-strak-shuhn] –noun
1. the act of distracting.
2. the state of being distracted.
3. mental distress or derangement: That child will drive me to distraction.
4. that which distracts, divides the attention, or prevents concentration: The distractions of the city interfere with my studies.
5. that which amuses, entertains, or diverts; amusement; entertainment: Fishing is his major distraction.
6. division or disorder caused by dissension; tumult.


NEXT:coffee:

you said "Locker Room" distraction....not just a distraction in general. If this was in mid-season..then yes I agree with you that he's a locker room distraction.

But this isnt in the locker room. The season hasnt started yet. In Washington they arent calling the Haynesworth situation a locker room distraction, even though other players know about it.

When the season starts...and if this stupid drama continues...then it is a locker room distraction.

Next :coffee:

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 08:42 PM
you said "Locker Room" distraction....not just a distraction in general. If this was in mid-season..then yes I agree with you that he's a locker room distraction.

But this isnt in the locker room. The season hasnt started yet. In Washington they arent calling the Haynesworth situation a locker room distraction, even though other players know about it.

When the season starts...and if this stupid drama continues...then it is a locker room distraction.

Next :coffee:


wow you have issues don't you.. If it affects anyone that goes into the locker room that is a distraction.. It is called team work and when you have a weak link in it there are issues..

When you have other teammates commenting/worrying on it something is wrong.. whether in the locker room or not.

I'll lay it out with less clutter this time..

that which distracts, divides the attention, or prevents concentration:

division or disorder caused by dissension

Watchthemiddle
03-14-2009, 08:50 PM
I'm sure Mannings incredible 6-22 and Elways blistering 6-31 records had nothing to do with them either :laugh:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o315/fcspikeit/Fail/fail-2.jpg

I'm sure not scoring in the red zone because you threw a pick that eventually led to 3 or 7 points to the opposing team didn't help much either.

The Cutler led Offense sure didn't help the D out much this year....and vice versa

Watchthemiddle
03-14-2009, 08:53 PM
wow you have issues don't you.. If it affects anyone that goes into the locker room that is a distraction.. It is called team work and when you have a weak link in it there are issues..

When you have other teammates commenting/worrying on it something is wrong.. whether in the locker room or not.

I'll lay it out with less clutter this time..

that which distracts, divides the attention, or prevents concentration:

division or disorder caused by dissension

But but but...I am sure Cutler hasn't talked to ANY players on the team and tried to pursuade them to dislike McDaniels. That would never happen, therefore it would NEVER cause a locker room distraction.

*sarcasm off*

Cutler said it first himself the night this whole soap opera started.....paraphrase..."if they trade me, there is going to be big problems"...talking about players on the team throwing a hissy also. IT works both ways.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 08:56 PM
But but but...I am sure Cutler hasn't talked to ANY players on the team and tried to pursuade them to dislike McDaniels. That would never happen, therefore it would NEVER cause a locker room distraction.

*sarcasm off*

Cutler said it first himself the night this whole soap opera started.....paraphrase..."if they trade me, there is going to be big problems"...talking about players on the team throwing a hissy also. IT works both ways.



Yep forgot about that Gem and I'll bet dollar to donuts that while jay did not field any calls from Josh, Xman or PAT he made and received alot from his team mates..

Any takers on this one?

atwater27
03-14-2009, 08:59 PM
Funny. Shanahan gets canned and all the sudden people have no problem who gets traded. DOn't trade away your best player unless you can replace them. And we can't. So it would be Mcstupid if we traded Cutty.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:01 PM
If Crytler gets traded, they should just move the organization to San Antonio, where they actually want a franchise. It would be the best situation for everybody.

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:03 PM
One thing's for sure, whomever Cutler gets traded to, I solemnly promise to cheer for him to beat McGroin's ass whenever the 2 teams meet. I could care less what y'all think. I will cheer for Cutler against my Broncos. And if you got a problem with it **** ya.

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 09:04 PM
Funny. Shanahan gets canned and all the sudden people have no problem who gets traded. DOn't trade away your best player unless you can replace them. And we can't. So it would be Mcstupid if we traded Cutty.

best thing I've read all day :salute: :salute:

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:05 PM
One thing's for sure, whomever Cutler gets traded to, I solemnly promise to cheer for him to beat McGroin's ass whenever the 2 teams meet. I could care less what y'all think. I will cheer for my Cutler against Broncos. And if you got a problem with it **** ya.

Edited it for you. At least if Crytler does get traded, all you Vanderbuilt fans will move on to your next sorry losing franchise. Denver needs some winners in here!

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 09:06 PM
If Crytler gets traded, they should just move the organization to San Antonio, where they actually want a franchise. It would be the best situation for everybody.

this entire damn city (Denver) would probably burn Invesco Field down. I was talking to a couple of "fans"...you know which fans, the ones that say they are Broncos fans, but dont know anything about the players or keep up to date with Broncos news.

They all know who Cutler is, and they want to strangle Bowlen and McDipShit if Cutler gets traded :lol:

Of course theres a select few who dont know anything and say "Trade him because he's not a good Quarterback" :rolleyes:

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 09:07 PM
Funny. Shanahan gets canned and all the sudden people have no problem who gets traded. DOn't trade away your best player unless you can replace them. And we can't. So it would be Mcstupid if we traded Cutty.

I would not have had a problem trading jay before. If we get true value for him.. Cassell and the #1 and #20 picks would have worked for me ANY DAY..

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 09:09 PM
I would not have had a problem trading jay before. If we get true value for him.. Cassell and the #1 and #20 picks would have worked for me ANY DAY..

yeah it would work for you...but probably not for the team. We'd have to give Cassell a new contract or suffer the sting of his franchise tag number. We'd have to pay the #1 overall pick outrageous money. And then we'd have to pay the #20 overall pick some decent money.

In addition we'll have to give Marshall his contract pretty soon.

Cassell was just a one-year wonder IMO...he's gonna fail miserably in KC

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:11 PM
Edited it for you. At least if Crytler does get traded, all you Vanderbuilt fans will move on to your next sorry losing franchise. Denver needs some winners in here!

Oh, you'll find out too soon what happens to Belichick protege's when they leave the nest.....
Straight down, splat.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:12 PM
Oh, you'll find out too soon what happens to Belichick protege's when they leave the nest.....
Straight down, splat.

Kind of like any team Jay Cutler quarterbacks, huh?

Maybe they are a match made in heaven after all.

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:14 PM
Kind of like any team Jay Cutler quarterbacks, huh?

Maybe they are a match made in heaven after all.

I guess we'll have the luxury soon of seeing who is right, won't we?

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 09:17 PM
yeah it would work for you...but probably not for the team. We'd have to give Cassell a new contract or suffer the sting of his franchise tag number. We'd have to pay the #1 overall pick outrageous money. And then we'd have to pay the #20 overall pick some decent money.

In addition we'll have to give Marshall his contract pretty soon.

Cassell was just a one-year wonder IMO...he's gonna fail miserably in KC

who care what he will do in KC it is what he could have done here that matters..

we have pick of the litter #1, then can pick again at 12 and 20. IF wise choices are made this DEFENSE is set for the next 5-10 years..

Maybe trade the picks for more Who knows but I'd rather had the option than a petulant crybaby QB that wants to go home to mikey and Jeremy..

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:19 PM
I guess we'll have the luxury soon of seeing who is right, won't we?

It's not about being right, it's about doing whatever it takes to finally get this team to start winning again, something it hasn't done since the Jake Plummer days.

And the fact that Cutler is a better QB, and Plummer had the better team, only goes to show, team > QB.

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:22 PM
It's not about being right, it's about doing whatever it takes to finally get this team to start winning again, something it hasn't done since the Jake Plummer days.

And the fact that Cutler is a better QB, and Plummer had the better team, only goes to show, team > QB.

And trading a franchise quality QB does what to the team? Makes it better? OK. I must revisit logic.

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 09:23 PM
who care what he will do in KC it is what he could have done here that matters..

we have pick of the litter #1, then can pick again at 12 and 20. IF wise choices are made this DEFENSE is set for the next 5-10 years..

Maybe trade the picks for more Who knows but I'd rather had the option than a petulant crybaby QB that wants to go home to mikey and Jeremy..

A "petulant crybaby" who reached the Pro Bowl at 25 and has not even reached his full potential....yeah that sounds really smart :rolleyes:

Matt Cassell would have sucked here also...he was a 1 year wonder in New England. I dont care that he would have been coming to the same system...he would have been horrible and then we'd have to hear you and others complaining "Why did we trade Cutler for this idiot?"...."We should have never dealt Cutler!"

Who would be the "petulant crybaby" then??

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:27 PM
And trading a franchise quality QB does what to the team? Makes it better? OK. I must revisit logic.

Jay Cutler isn't the first young talent at the QB position, and he most certainly won't be the last in Denver. It's proven that system makes a franchise QB.

If McDaniels system can turn Matt Cassel into a pro bowl "type" QB, just think of what it will do next year when they can Sam Bradford, who will be the next big Superstar at the QB position. Assuming they do trade Crytler ofcourse, and the signs are starting to point towards a trade.

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 09:27 PM
If Crytler gets traded, they should just move the organization to San Antonio, where they actually want a franchise. It would be the best situation for everybody.


I knew it. Youre a cowgirls fan.

You and Wizzer alike.

Beat it!

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:30 PM
I knew it. Youre a cowgirls fan.

You and Wizzer alike.

Beat it!

The Cowgirls are out of Dallas, not San Antonio, "geography genius"!

:elefant:

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 09:32 PM
Jay Cutler isn't the first young talent at the QB position, and he most certainly won't be the last in Denver. It's proven that system makes a franchise QB.

If McDaniels system can turn Matt Cassel into a pro bowl "type" QB, just think of what it will do next year when they can Sam Bradford, who will be the next big Superstar at the QB position. Assuming they do trade Crytler ofcourse, and the signs are starting to point towards a trade.



Your logic is astounding.


What a joke.

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 09:33 PM
The Cowgirls are out of Dallas, not San Antonio, "geography genius"!

:elefant:


Anyone who wants to move the Broncos to deadbeat Texas is a cowgirls fan in my book.


Beat it already. Take yer chaps to San Antonio where you'll be happy.


Dont ride the cacti.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:34 PM
Your logic is astounding.


What a joke.

My logic?

I'm not the one calling Denver a "proud franchise" because of what happened 10 years ago.

That's like saying Nebraska is still one of the best football programs in college!

"What a joke."

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:35 PM
Jay Cutler isn't the first young talent at the QB position, and he most certainly won't be the last in Denver. It's proven that system makes a franchise QB.

If McDaniels system can turn Matt Cassel into a pro bowl "type" QB, just think of what it will do next year when they can Sam Bradford, who will be the next big Superstar at the QB position. Assuming they do trade Crytler ofcourse, and the signs are starting to point towards a trade.

You seem to forget that McDaniels was not the head coach of New England. His success as an assistant will not 'magically' translate into success at the highest coaching level. Especially without the supporting cast he no longer has. In any case, you put your faith in a 32 year old unproven head coach.
I will put mine in the 25 year old pro bowl QB, who like it or not is the leader and the heart and soul of the team.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 09:35 PM
A "petulant crybaby" who reached the Pro Bowl at 25 and has not even reached his full potential....yeah that sounds really smart :rolleyes:

Matt Cassell would have sucked here also...he was a 1 year wonder in New England. I dont care that he would have been coming to the same system...he would have been horrible and then we'd have to hear you and others complaining "Why did we trade Cutler for this idiot?"...."We should have never dealt Cutler!"

Who would be the "petulant crybaby" then??


hmmmmmmm where to start..

YOU nor anyone knows for sure he would not have been a super start here..

Until I know that you are more qualified than Josh Mc Daniels our new HC, I'll go with with what he thinks..

Until such time as he destroys conclusively my trust in him he has my support..

Talking about a trade that could make this team int a power house over the next 3 years does not meet the level of distrust and hate that so many here have leveled at him, Pat and Xman..

I'm sorry he thought about trading you precious crybaby QB.. but the fact that Mc Baby totally has overreacted with everything so far leads me to believe he was correct in listening to the trade offer..

Actually I could get angry with him if he turned down DET'S picks and Cassell.. But since NONE of this has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt Josh, Pat etal are free from the lynching so many want to do..

Now until you have something stronger than

Who would be the "petulant crybaby" then??

lets agree to disagree.. was that the best you had?

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:36 PM
Anyone who wants to move the Broncos to deadbeat Texas is a cowgirls fan in my book.


Beat it already. Take yer chaps to San Antonio where you'll be happy.


Dont ride the cacti.

I see your geography skillz carry over into your reading comprehension too.

What's next you say, New York Jets fans are really "Giants" fans?

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:38 PM
Where do you guys get off having more loyalty to a guy who hasn't coached a single snap for us over any of the players? Y'all remind me of the guys at work who kiss the new boss'es ass the second you see him.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:38 PM
You seem to forget that McDaniels was not the head coach of New England. His success as an assistant will not 'magically' translate into success at the highest coaching level. Especially without the supporting cast he no longer has. In any case, you put your faith in a 32 year old unproven head coach.
I will put mine in the 25 year old pro bowl QB, who like it or not is the leader and the heart and soul of the team.


Great logic. Who cares about"wins", "playoffs", and "great teams" when you can have a Pro Bowl 25 year old QB.

Crytler has been on a losing team since high school. Some "heart and soul" he has, and some "leader".

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:39 PM
Where do you guys get off having more loyalty to a guy who hasn't coached a single snap for us over any of the players? Y'all remind me of the guys at work who kiss the new boss'es ass the second you see him.

Because he's part of the organization. Remember, you're loyalty doesn't lie with the organization, it lies with Jay Crytler. I can quote you if you like.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 09:40 PM
Where do you guys get off having more loyalty to a guy who hasn't coached a single snap for us over any of the players? Y'all remind me of the guys at work who kiss the new boss'es ass the second you see him.

unless I missed something Pat did just that.. and he has a lot more resting on this deal than how I feel about it.. :salute:

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:40 PM
Because he's part of the organization. Remember, you're loyalty doesn't lie with the organization, it lies with Jay Crytler. I can quote you if you like.

Jay has proven himself to me. I know, not to you. But he has proven a hell of alot more than mcnothing has.

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:41 PM
unless I missed something Pat did just that.. and he has a lot more resting on this deal than how I feel about it.. :salute:

Something tells me Pat is not fully enjoying the decision at this moment.

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 09:42 PM
hmmmmmmm where to start..

YOU nor anyone knows for sure he would not have been a super start here..

Until I know that you are more qualified than Josh Mc Daniels our new HC, I'll go with with what he thinks..

Until such time as he destroys conclusively my trust in him he has my support..

Talking about a trade that could make this team int a power house over the next 3 years does not meet the level of distrust and hate that so many here have leveled at him, Pat and Xman..

I'm sorry he thought about trading you precious crybaby QB.. but the fact that Mc Baby totally has overreacted with everything so far leads me to believe he was correct in listening to the trade offer..

Actually I could get angry with him if he turned down DET'S picks and Cassell.. But since NONE of this has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt Josh, Pat etal are free from the lynching so many want to do..

Now until you have something stronger than

Who would be the "petulant crybaby" then??

lets agree to disagree.. was that the best you had?

what makes you think that having Matt Cassel over Jay Cutler would turn this team into a "power house"?

LMAO Cassel is our savior! He will be more of a QB than Jay Cutler can ever hope or wish to be! /:sarcasm off :coffee:

Here are the facts:

Jay Cutler is the reason we won 8 games last year instead of <4 games because we had no defense or a consistant running game.

Jay Cutler went to the Pro Bowl last year. Matt Cassel did not.

Jay Cutler is a 2-year starter of 16 games plus another 5 under his belt his rookie year. Matt Cassel has 15 carreer starts.

Matt Cassel had a reliable running game (I think ranked top 5) and a solid defense to help him get to 11 wins last year. Jay Cutler did not.

Jay Cutler >>>>>>>>>>> Matt Cassel

Therefore I dont see the logic behind trading a better player if we arent getting a better QB in return.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:42 PM
Jay has proven himself to me. I know, not to you. But he has proven a hell of alot more than mcnothing has.

Jay's proven to me that he thinks he's so good he doesn't have to criticism. "He has an arm stronger than John Elway for crying out loud!"

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:44 PM
I got an idea. Let's go full McDumbass and cut/trade every single player that was selected, aquired or grown by Shanahan. Then Mcmonkeynuts can have zero excuses for player failure and make sure he can get full credit for any player successes.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 09:44 PM
Something tells me Pat is not fully enjoying the decision at this moment.


Something tells me He is.... He choose a decisive leader who knows his stuff and he trusts him or there would have been repercussions from the phone call..

IMO..

Broncospsycho77
03-14-2009, 09:45 PM
Something tells me He is.... He choose a decisive leader who knows his stuff and he trusts him or there would have been repercussions from the phone call..

IMO..

I'm pretty sure Pat's a no-drama kind of guy. The situation itself would be maddening if I actually had to solve it, no less watch it happening before me. All's not well in Broncoland.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:47 PM
I got an idea. Let's go full McDumbass and cut/trade every single player that was selected, aquired or grown by Shanahan. Then Mcmonkeynuts can have zero excuses for player failure and make sure he can get full credit for any player successes.

McDaniels didn't want to trade anyone. Crytler was the one that wanted to be traded. McDaniels was only honoring his request, but ultimately decided against it.

"Let's suggest another dumbazz idea! Let's make Crytler the head coach, not even field a defense, and let him see if he can throw a football over them mountains every Sunday!"

:elefant:

atwater27
03-14-2009, 09:50 PM
McDaniels didn't want to trade anyone. Crytler was the one that wanted to be traded. McDaniels was only honoring his request, but ultimately decided against it.


:elefant:

:rolleyes: and this situation didn't have enough blind conclusions.

Kapaibro
03-14-2009, 09:50 PM
Neither one of those teams did shit without their QB situation solidified. Flacco Just happened last year. Flacco and Big Ben are untouchable. Just like Cutler Should be.

Ravens and Pitt have the defense to make their QB's untouchable.

Cutler SHOULD be untouchable, but at this stage, he isn't.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:53 PM
:rolleyes: and this situation didn't have enough blind conclusions.

I know, I agree. McDaniels probably should have pulled the trigger, but he didn't.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 09:57 PM
what makes you think that having Matt Cassel over Jay Cutler would turn this team into a "power house"?

LMAO Cassel is our savior! He will be more of a QB than Jay Cutler can ever hope or wish to be! /:sarcasm off :coffee:

Here are the facts:

Jay Cutler is the reason we won 8 games last year instead of <4 games because we had no defense or a consistant running game.

Jay Cutler went to the Pro Bowl last year. Matt Cassel did not.

Jay Cutler is a 2-year starter of 16 games plus another 5 under his belt his rookie year. Matt Cassel has 15 carreer starts.

Matt Cassel had a reliable running game (I think ranked top 5) and a solid defense to help him get to 11 wins last year. Jay Cutler did not.

Jay Cutler >>>>>>>>>>> Matt Cassel

Therefore I dont see the logic behind trading a better player if we arent getting a better QB in return.

one last time before it is you bedtime as your really cranky..

If we get Cassell and the #1 and #20 choice in the up coming draft..

Cassell hits the ground running his OLD playbook can teach it to the others on the squad.. Most likely does nothing worse than last years numbers for passing yards and completions with a damned fine set of WR/TE and Hillis..

We have pick of the litter at #1 then picking again at #12 and #20.. #42 Should be able tot get at least 3 maybe as many as 5 players that play either full time this year on D if not at least part time.. While learning their positions.. Three years from now this team could be a dynasty and even next year 2010.. But we could be set for 5-10 year IF we pick wisely on D..

Now if you can't grasp that concept time for bed re read it in the am..


I can CARE less about what if anything jay won for us last year.. this team needs to be completely rebuilt excepting perhaps the OLINE, TE and Eddie (marshall is optional).. I guess that is why Pat is allowing Josh a free hand in redoing the Broncos..

one man is not going to win a Super bowl a team is.. Please if jay gets traded PLEASE PLEASE follow him there so we do not have to see your posts anymore..

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 10:03 PM
I'm pretty sure Pat's a no-drama kind of guy. The situation itself would be maddening if I actually had to solve it, no less watch it happening before me. All's not well in Broncoland.

and that started years ago..

As the defense has been quoted many felt like second class citizens on the team.. way to much attention was heaped on the offense..

coupled with eh really lousy drafting from 1999-2006 there is no quality player a bunch of back ups playing as starters.. this team is bankrupt in quality players.. we have several Oline, wr,a couple of TE and DJ and Champ. beyond that and Jay should he stay this is going to be a struggle.. for a couple of years..

In 06 and then most likely 08 we have good drafts and I say most likely 08 cause many of them will be gone with the new schemes coming in..

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 10:05 PM
one last time before it is you bedtime as your really cranky..

If we get Cassell and the #1 and #20 choice in the up coming draft..

Cassell hits the ground running his OLD playbook can teach it to the others on the squad.. Most likely does nothing worse than last years numbers for passing yards and completions with a damned fine set of WR/TE and Hillis..

We have pick of the litter at #1 then picking again at #12 and #20.. #42 Should be able tot get at least 3 maybe as many as 5 players that play either full time this year on D if not at least part time.. While learning their positions.. Three years from now this team could be a dynasty and even next year 2010.. But we could be set for 5-10 year IF we pick wisely on D..

Now if you can't grasp that concept time for bed re read it in the am..


I can CARE less about what if anything jay won for us last year.. this team needs to be completely rebuilt excepting perhaps the OLINE, TE and Eddie (marshall is optional).. I guess that is why Pat is allowing Josh a free hand in redoing the Broncos..

one man is not going to win a Super bowl a team is.. Please if jay gets traded PLEASE PLEASE follow him there so we do not have to see your posts anymore..

well now you are just acting mean. USE YOUR BRAIN. We can't afford to pay the #1, #12, and #20 overall picks! In addition to Matt Cassel's new contract and Brandon Marshall's new contract, how are we going to pay everybody else.

You're so caught up in acting like a know it all, you arent thinking!

Of course it would be awesome to get all of those picks...but WE CANT AFFORD THEM!

We have roughly $16 million left under the salary cap. Matt Cassel alone would take $14.6 million of that! And if we work out a contract with him, he'll take $6-$10 million of our $16 million left.

Do you honestly believe that we could re-sign Brandon Marshall, sign 3 first round draft picks, and the rest of our rookie class with <$6 million?

Get real...:coffee:

edit: before you cry about where I got my facts: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-1764/AFC-West-salary-cap-update.html

Bedtime is NOW for JRwiz...

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 10:07 PM
one last time before it is you bedtime as your really cranky..

If we get Cassell and the #1 and #20 choice in the up coming draft..

Cassell hits the ground running his OLD playbook can teach it to the others on the squad.. Most likely does nothing worse than last years numbers for passing yards and completions with a damned fine set of WR/TE and Hillis..

We have pick of the litter at #1 then picking again at #12 and #20.. #42 Should be able tot get at least 3 maybe as many as 5 players that play either full time this year on D if not at least part time.. While learning their positions.. Three years from now this team could be a dynasty and even next year 2010.. But we could be set for 5-10 year IF we pick wisely on D..

Now if you can't grasp that concept time for bed re read it in the am..


I can CARE less about what if anything jay won for us last year.. this team needs to be completely rebuilt excepting perhaps the OLINE, TE and Eddie (marshall is optional).. I guess that is why Pat is allowing Josh a free hand in redoing the Broncos..

one man is not going to win a Super bowl a team is.. Please if jay gets traded PLEASE PLEASE follow him there so we do not have to see your posts anymore..


Yer mama called.

She said to tell you the only thing those picks guarantee us is a TON of money out of Bowlens pocket. She said, havent you read FOOTBALL FOR DUMMIES? If you did, you'd know that the first pick in the DAFT means 40+ million guaranteed. And then theres the 12th pick. And then the 20th pick. And all this money you want to devote, is to unproven players? She also said to remind you that the Broncos HAVE NO MONEY according to YOU, so how the hell we gonna sign anyone?

She said to remind you that you said we still have to pay Shanahan his 7 million, and the entire fired coaching staff as of yet, and we wont be doing much of anything in FAgency.

So she also told me to tell you to get yer act together and stop talking in CIRCLES cause youre sounding like a dummy. Not that you ARE one mind you...........just that youre SOUNDING like one.


And everyone is listening.....................:shocked:

getlynched47
03-14-2009, 10:20 PM
Yer mama called.

She said to tell you the only thing those picks guarantee us is a TON of money out of Bowlens pocket. She said, havent you read FOOTBALL FOR DUMMIES? If you did, you'd know that the first pick in the DAFT means 40+ million guaranteed. And then theres the 12th pick. And then the 20th pick. And all this money you want to devote, is to unproven players? She also said to remind you that the Broncos HAVE NO MONEY according to YOU, so how the hell we gonna sign anyone?

She said to remind you that you said we still have to pay Shanahan his 7 million, and the entire fired coaching staff as of yet, and we wont be doing much of anything in FAgency.

So she also told me to tell you to get yer act together and stop talking in CIRCLES cause youre sounding like a dummy. Not that you ARE one mind you...........just that youre SOUNDING like one.


And everyone is listening.....................:shocked:

owned...

Lonestar
03-15-2009, 01:29 AM
well now you are just acting mean. USE YOUR BRAIN. We can't afford to pay the #1, #12, and #20 overall picks! In addition to Matt Cassel's new contract and Brandon Marshall's new contract, how are we going to pay everybody else.

You're so caught up in acting like a know it all, you arent thinking!

Of course it would be awesome to get all of those picks...but WE CANT AFFORD THEM!

We have roughly $16 million left under the salary cap. Matt Cassel alone would take $14.6 million of that! And if we work out a contract with him, he'll take $6-$10 million of our $16 million left.

Do you honestly believe that we could re-sign Brandon Marshall, sign 3 first round draft picks, and the rest of our rookie class with <$6 million?

Get real...:coffee:

edit: before you cry about where I got my facts: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-1764/AFC-West-salary-cap-update.html

Bedtime is NOW for JRwiz...


Yer mama called.

She said to tell you the only thing those picks guarantee us is a TON of money out of Bowlens pocket. She said, havent you read FOOTBALL FOR DUMMIES? If you did, you'd know that the first pick in the DAFT means 40+ million guaranteed. And then theres the 12th pick. And then the 20th pick. And all this money you want to devote, is to unproven players? She also said to remind you that the Broncos HAVE NO MONEY according to YOU, so how the hell we gonna sign anyone?

She said to remind you that you said we still have to pay Shanahan his 7 million, and the entire fired coaching staff as of yet, and we wont be doing much of anything in FAgency.

So she also told me to tell you to get yer act together and stop talking in CIRCLES cause youre sounding like a dummy. Not that you ARE one mind you...........just that youre SOUNDING like one.


And everyone is listening.....................:shocked:


You know that if a deal is good enough they can do what ever they think they need to..

Regardless of what ever cap is out there as some folks were saying earlier they can structure the contracts in such a manner as to defer alot of the money into the next few years..

As for Marshall would be nice to keep but chances are he will get major suspensions over the next couple of years.. Does that sound like a player we HAVE to keep..

Lots of players will accept deals on teams for the chance to play on it IF they see they are about to enter a great run many will take less to get the ring..

So make whatever aspersions you think you can remember where there is a will there is a way..

Lets see Champ could be cut same with Graham.. or they can restructure their deals..

of course that would mean a probable swap of jays contract for a one a tad higher in Cassell or may be even less knowing that he is a "backup" QB that he owes his instant status to the coach who brought him here..

your also fore getting the possibility of trading one or more of those picks for many more late first rounders or seconds and thirds.. endless possibilities..

Oh possibly the best for last next year has no cap..

Hmmmmmmm..having high promise of seeing top notch defense to go with the NE offense might drive ticket, parking, food concessions as well as merchandise thought eh roof Whoop s I forgot invesco has not ceiling..

Where there is a will there is a way..


even on codeine for the cough it was a spanking.. night girls..


BTW since it did not go down it is all speculation.. Unless of course DET really wants JAY.. then we draft a QB in round one or TWO..

EMB6903
03-15-2009, 01:33 AM
Jay's proven to me that he thinks he's so good he doesn't have to criticism. "He has an arm stronger than John Elway for crying out loud!"


did he tell you that himself or are you going by speculation?

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 01:38 AM
did he tell you that himself or are you going by speculation?

No, he told the whole world he has a stronger arm than Elway.

Good job Jay, a lot of good that will get you without a brain to go along with it.

EMB6903
03-15-2009, 01:41 AM
No, he told the whole world he has a stronger arm than Elway.

Good job Jay, a lot of good that will get you without a brain to go along with it.

I love the confidence, what was he supposed to say when asked the question?

elsid13
03-15-2009, 07:59 AM
No, he told the whole world he has a stronger arm than Elway.

Good job Jay, a lot of good that will get you without a brain to go along with it.

If he had said that had a stronger arm then Favre would it had been an issue? Or because he dared to compare himself to the Elway myth that has you pissed off?

BroncoJoe
03-15-2009, 09:49 AM
Next year, when Shanahan takes a HC job somewhere, that will be the team we trade with.

Den21vsBal19
03-15-2009, 09:52 AM
Next year, when Shanahan takes a HC job somewhere, that will be the team we trade with.
It's certainly a thought............................if that's the case, let's hope Shanny's so blinded we can screw him over on the trade :lol:

elsid13
03-15-2009, 10:06 AM
It's certainly a thought............................if that's the case, let's hope Shanny's so blinded we can screw him over on the trade :lol:

Yeah because that always happens..

WARHORSE
03-15-2009, 01:46 PM
You know that if a deal is good enough they can do what ever they think they need to..

Regardless of what ever cap is out there as some folks were saying earlier they can structure the contracts in such a manner as to defer alot of the money into the next few years..

As for Marshall would be nice to keep but chances are he will get major suspensions over the next couple of years.. Does that sound like a player we HAVE to keep..

Lots of players will accept deals on teams for the chance to play on it IF they see they are about to enter a great run many will take less to get the ring..

So make whatever aspersions you think you can remember where there is a will there is a way..

Lets see Champ could be cut same with Graham.. or they can restructure their deals..

of course that would mean a probable swap of jays contract for a one a tad higher in Cassell or may be even less knowing that he is a "backup" QB that he owes his instant status to the coach who brought him here..

your also fore getting the possibility of trading one or more of those picks for many more late first rounders or seconds and thirds.. endless possibilities..

Oh possibly the best for last next year has no cap..

Hmmmmmmm..having high promise of seeing top notch defense to go with the NE offense might drive ticket, parking, food concessions as well as merchandise thought eh roof Whoop s I forgot invesco has not ceiling..

Where there is a will there is a way..


even on codeine for the cough it was a spanking.. night girls..


BTW since it did not go down it is all speculation.. Unless of course DET really wants JAY.. then we draft a QB in round one or TWO..

Man.........reading this reminded me of the movie:




"BEND IT LIKE BECKAM"

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/warhorse001/BECK.jpg





Nice fauxhawk...........:coffee:











:D

BeefStew25
03-15-2009, 01:54 PM
Its just you and me War. Man I wish I was laying in bed with you right now.

OrangeHoof
03-15-2009, 02:45 PM
we have pick of the litter #1, then can pick again at 12 and 20. IF wise choices are made this DEFENSE is set for the next 5-10 years..


If THAT was the plan, then the Broncos should have raided Baltimore's coaching staff instead. By replacing an offensive head coach with another offensive head coach and then trying to replace a functional offense while ignoring the dysfunctional defense makes no sense to me at all.

If the plan was to trade Jay and get a bunch of high draft choices to rebuild the defense then they should have chosen Rex Ryan as the next head coach instead of McDiapers. All McDiapers has done is nuke the offense which wasn't what needed fixing.

topscribe
03-15-2009, 03:27 PM
No, he told the whole world he has a stronger arm than Elway.

Good job Jay, a lot of good that will get you without a brain to go along with it.

Actually, it didn't take a lot of gray matter to understand that his comment
was originally tongue-in-cheek in response to a reporter's inane inquiry, and
that the press is who has kept that alive.

-----

CPS22
03-15-2009, 04:46 PM
I say trade Jay Cutler to the Detroit Lions for both of their 1st round draft picks and 1st over all take Matthew Stafford, 12th over all take James Laurinaitis, Then 20th over all take Everette Brown/Malcolm Jenkins. Then go get Jeff Garcia and let him, Chris Simms, Stafford and maybe Darrell Hackney Compete for the starting job in 2009.

Watchthemiddle
03-15-2009, 04:52 PM
Actually, it didn't take a lot of gray matter to understand that his comment
was originally tongue-in-cheek in response to a reporter's inane inquiry, and
that the press is who has kept that alive.

-----


Well if you caught his interview on Jim Rome not too long ago when asked about it, he surely didn't back down and said he would say it all over again.

That doesn't seem too "tongue-in-cheek"

I really have no problem with a "confident QB, but a cocky one that doesn't know his place yet in Elway country will rub me as well as many others wrong.

claymore
03-15-2009, 04:52 PM
No, he told the whole world he has a stronger arm than Elway.

Good job Jay, a lot of good that will get you without a brain to go along with it.

Only Radar can prove him Wrong.

Poet
03-15-2009, 05:07 PM
Let me make if simple for everyone. The best talent on the field wins football games, not system. All the system does is provide a framework for putting a player somewhere on the field. It the player that execute and actually does something, not the coaches.

This is wrong. New England was never the most talented team in the NFL. In fact, they never played in a SB that they WON with the more talented team. Pittsburgh has a great system and a handful of standout players. The same went for New England.

Meanwhile, teams with great talents like the Chargers, the Colts, in previous years my Bengals, the Cowboys, have all done what? The Colts won a SB, the rest did nothing.

A great system is better than great players due to the fact that it can make good players like great.

Now, if you can develop a great system and get a few great players like New England and Pittsburgh did........