NFL Network says that Cutler took offense to McDaniels criticism about improving himself [Archive]

Northman

03-14-2009, 12:01 PM

bullis26

03-14-2009, 12:04 PM

well mike tomlin told john lynch he needs to improve, and told him all the aspects he needed to improve on, well lynch was mad at him for awhile he got over it and went on to play great, lets hope this is the same case with cutler.....Lynch however didnt cry about it, because he realized Tomlin was right, and that tomlin was just trying to better lynch....Cutler should realize that MCD is trying to take Cutler to the next level, he shouldnt be offended by this, everybody needs critisism to get better

atwater27

03-14-2009, 12:08 PM

dogfish

03-14-2009, 12:34 PM

oh lord. . . . something else for people to cry about. . . .

:frusty:

scott.475

03-14-2009, 12:39 PM

Somehow I doubt the same Jay Cutler who has spent off-season time, his own time away from the organization, working to better himself, and his receivers, does not think he has anything to work on. Isn't this the same Jay that we have read so many stories about how much time he spends studying film and the play book?

If the conversation happened as this report indicates, who knows what the context of the conversation was. But, if I had been spending a bunch of time studying film and the play book, and taking my own time to work out and work with my receivers, I might get a little ticked if some man-child told me I was not doing enough. Again, who knows what the tone of the conversation was, but so far it would not surprise me at all if the man-child coach made Cutler feel like he had no talent at all.

Wasn't it just two years ago that Tom Coughlin was nearly run out of NY for his "my way or the highway" approach? If someone who has been around as long as him can change his approach, and go on to win a Superbowl against OUR NEW COACH, maybe McD could learn a thing or two from him.

Man, I was nervous but hopeful when Pat chose both a Pats assistant (only because they have not done well on their own), and when he picked someone so young. I am growing worried now.

Xanders, hello, what is your job exactly? Doesn't "personnel" fit in their somewhere? You are MIA!!!

scott.475

03-14-2009, 12:42 PM

McAsshat is just trying to exert his dominance over Cutler, his lordship and total control over his QB. And the more he tries to go that route, the more he pushes him away. If I am a 32 year old brand new Head Coach, I would say that I would need a slightly different approch than Bill Parcells. How bout a working relationship that is less controlling and more supporting?

IF he had his OWN record of winning as a headcoach I might be more forgiving of McD's approach so far, but maybe you should establish a winning record with a winning system with your team before you start acting that way.

turftoad

03-14-2009, 12:47 PM

I stole this post from another poster on another board. Hope he/she doesn't mind but it pretty much sums up how I feel about this.
McBozo shows his lack of people skills again.

You don't tell someone how they need to improve over the phone. You wait to see them in person and discuss it then. Especially when things are as tense as they are right now.

--------------------------

"Well my take is this:

McD waltzes in and decides he wants to be in his comfort zone. We are NOT the Patriots.. yet he tries to bring their philosophy, their coaches, even their players in. That's why he wanted his 'boy' over Cutler, not because of Cutler's lack of ability to play.

He tried to trade for his boy, and screws that up, by letting the cat out of the bag. Then instead of dealing with an immature, petulant player, he plays hardball instead.

And then during a call to clear the air, where he could make things better, he does not step up, he instead decides to use THAT moment to tell Jay Cutler all his weaknesses. Yea.. that's a great way to get your franchise QB to play for you.

Look, there isn't a better choice out there for QB. After all the huge 'me' players out there with serious issues, I'm a bit stunned that people are willing to let Cutler go simply because he is immature an petulant. WHO CARES?! You are the coach, deal with that! And in a mature, smart, savvy manner, than makes him want to play for you. Imo, McD is being just as petulant because he couldn't get his toy for our team.

Shanahan was a master at making the team work around the QB in the system. He imo, made Plummer look much better than he was, by virtue of working the offense around him to suit his strengths. McD just wants everyone to mold into his preconceived notion of what our team should be. Screw that. We are NOT THE PATRIOTS! Why didn't we just buy the damn team and bring them to Denver? Makes me sick.. ugh, taking away our identity, and no one gives a crap.

When McD has you know.. like, won a single GAME with us, maybe I'll show him more respect. At least Cutler is a team player, he does care about the players around him, he HAS produced, and that's more than I can say for McD. There is just no loyalty in Denver anymore".

silkamilkamonico

03-14-2009, 12:59 PM

He tried to trade for his boy, and screws that up, by letting the cat out of the bag. Then instead of dealing with an immature, petulant player, he plays hardball instead.

He only thought about trading him to honor the wishes Cutler wanted when he said he wanted to be traded when Bates left. Then, after McDaniels thought about it, said, "I can't trade an up and coming QB like Cutler for a solid QB like Cassel and 2 first round draft picks!!

Requiem / The Dagda

03-14-2009, 01:00 PM

I'm glad McDaniels pointed out Jay's flaws. A little criticism never hurt anybody. Maybe it'll light a fire under his ass.

turftoad

03-14-2009, 01:08 PM

I'm glad McDaniels pointed out Jay's flaws. A little criticism never hurt anybody. Maybe it'll light a fire under his ass.

Oh I agree. But..................... again he goes about it the wrong way.

McBozo has zero people skills.

bullis26

03-14-2009, 01:14 PM

Oh I agree. But..................... again he goes about it the wrong way.

McBozo has zero people skills.

well he sure helped get a a lot of free agents to come to denver, i'm not sure i'd say he has zero people skills

scott.475

03-14-2009, 01:15 PM

McD reminds me of a supervisor I had one time. Really odd looking little guy, typical male patern baldness, not hair on top, just around sides and back, I am not sure if he was even 5 feet tall. Total little guy complex, reminds me if the insurance guy from The Incredibles, if you have seen it. He never had any desire to listen to anyone, ever, wanted everyone to be a little mold of him. One day he finally lost it when someone had the audacity to ask why something needed done a certain way. His little bald head turned red, he started pounding on his chest and pulling at his shirt as if he was trying to tear it off "Because I am the boss! Me! Don't you get it! I said so...I am the boss! Who are you to question?!" This was a man who had shown no ability to ever get good work from his people, no ability to accomplish an overall goal, and was soon placed in a position where he had no one to supervise...a manager with no one to manage.

So, you can run an organization like a tyrant before you have accomplished a single thing and make you employees wonder what the heck they are doing there, or you can actually learn to manage the different personalities of your people and get them working toward a common goal together. McD seems to fit more in the tyrant mold at this point. I would imagine if Belicheck was not a winner, his management style would not be going over too well and players would be wanting out, as winning can cure a lot of ills.

scott.475

03-14-2009, 01:17 PM

well he sure helped get a a lot of free agents to come to denver, i'm not sure i'd say he has zero people skills

At this point, I am sure they are thinking of the pre-'09 Broncos. Shanny did not have much trouble bring in FAs, players wanted to come here because of our reputation as an organization...I think it is a bit of a stretch to say they are coming because of McD's people skills alone.

rcsodak

03-14-2009, 01:23 PM

McAsshat is just trying to exert his dominance over Cutler, his lordship and total control over his QB. And the more he tries to go that route, the more he pushes him away. If I am a 32 year old brand new Head Coach, I would say that I would need a slightly different approch than Bill Parcells. How bout a working relationship that is less controlling and more supporting?

I'll sum up your over-worded opine into one short sentence.....

McDaniels needs to realize that Cutler is running the show.

Work for you?

:coffee:

bullis26

03-14-2009, 01:24 PM

At this point, I am sure they are thinking of the pre-'09 Broncos. Shanny did not have much trouble bring in FAs, players wanted to come here because of our reputation as an organization...I think it is a bit of a stretch to say they are coming because of McD's people skills alone.

Shanny would have never gotten dawkins, nor would he have even gone after dawkins

bullis26

03-14-2009, 01:24 PM

I'll sum up your over-worded opine into one short sentence.....

McDaniels needs to realize that Cutler is running the show.

Work for you?

:coffee:

i hope you were kidding, coaches run the show, once players start doing that we are the dallas cowboys 2008 edition

turftoad

03-14-2009, 01:30 PM

well he sure helped get a a lot of free agents to come to denver, i'm not sure i'd say he has zero people skills

Anybody could have brought in the FA'a we did. It's not like he scored huge.

Bringing in Dawkins is not that big of deal. We stepped up to the plate money wise and Dawkins is no star in hte making. He's vet on the decline.

Not a huge signing IMO. He'll only be around for maybe a couple of years.

silkamilkamonico

03-14-2009, 01:31 PM

i hope you were kidding, coaches run the show, once players start doing that we are the dallas cowboys 2008 edition

If Cutler's running the show, we'll be the first official NFL team that uses the media to get gameplans through to their teammates.

"Ya'll need to tell Brandon Marshall to hold on to my footballs, even when his triple covered, I mean I have a bigger arm than John Elway! And tell the defense that when I turn the ball over on their side of the field they better start doing their job and blocking the field goals every time. I'm sick of this garbage and playing with a bunch of losers! I'm Jay "God" Cutler bvtch!!"

bullis26

03-14-2009, 01:49 PM

If Cutler's running the show, we'll be the first official NFL team that uses the media to get gameplans through to their teammates.

"Ya'll need to tell Brandon Marshall to hold on to my footballs, even when his triple covered, I mean I have a bigger arm than John Elway! And tell the defense that when I turn the ball over on their side of the field they better start doing their job and blocking the field goals every time. I'm sick of this garbage and playing with a bunch of losers! I'm Jay "God" Cutler bvtch!!"

haha nicely done.....but you didnt watch eagles games last year if you think dawkins is no good, he was great... please tell me you saw that game against dallas there last game of the year.... Dawkins was the heart and soul of that team, and this was a huge signing for us, talk to any eagles fan, that loss hurt worse than if they lost anybody else on that team

DenBronx

03-14-2009, 02:04 PM

great way to start things off with the quarterback mcdummy. why to you actually get the guy in camp and then critique him. after all this drama i dont think mcdummy is a wise person for firing right away at cutler like that. this guy does have the "little man syndrome".

roomemp

03-14-2009, 02:19 PM

McAsshat is just trying to exert his dominance over Cutler, his lordship and total control over his QB. And the more he tries to go that route, the more he pushes him away. If I am a 32 year old brand new Head Coach, I would say that I would need a slightly different approch than Bill Parcells. How bout a working relationship that is less controlling and more supporting?

I agree. Jay is fine the way he is. His key interceptions don't hurt the team right?? :tsk:

broncohead

03-14-2009, 02:27 PM

I agree. Jay is fine the way he is. His key interceptions don't hurt the team right?? :tsk:

Do you watch the Broncos actually play football? Most of the time we need big plays to even stay in the game because we know the defense is going to give up the TD. Not saying he doens't need to improve.

EMB6903

03-14-2009, 02:43 PM

More speculation?

AWESOME!

bullis26

03-14-2009, 02:44 PM

Do you watch the Broncos actually play football? Most of the time we need big plays to even stay in the game because we know the defense is going to give up the TD. Not saying he doens't need to improve.

no way you can sit there and say cutler doesnt throw interceptions when we absolutely dont need them, bills game perfect example, he goes cold when we need him the most

EMB6903

03-14-2009, 02:45 PM

no way you can sit there and say cutler doesnt throw interceptions when we absolutely dont need them, bills game perfect example, he goes cold when we need him the most

I believe the offensive play that game Cutler threw a pass to stokley that was ON THE MONEY, yes the Interception was awful, but he put them in position to win the game and stokley dropped it.

dont try telling me Jay Cutler isnt clutch under pressure... thats foolish.

bullis26

03-14-2009, 02:51 PM

I believe the offensive play that game Cutler threw a pass to stokley that was ON THE MONEY, yes the Interception was awful, but he put them in position to win the game and stokley dropped it.

dont try telling me Jay Cutler isnt clutch under pressure... thats foolish.

i remeber that game eddie royal in the fourth quarter running wide open down the field and cutler over throws him, eddie is pretty fast so it would be hard to over throw him, and yes that was a good pass but it was great coverage, cutler threw it in the one spot it needed to be for a CHANCE at a completion, that was great coverage. Stokely is sure handed and i dont think many recievers could have caught that ball that was a bad descion to throw it in that tight of spot

EMB6903

03-14-2009, 02:53 PM

it hit stokley right in the hands

if you are playing in the NFL i would expect you catch anything that you get your hands on.... it was a great pass

Cutler= 3 4th quarter comebacks this year alone, 2 came on the road, 3 4th quarter come backs in 07 took Green Bay to OT as well (dre bly blows), and 1 in 06, also led Denver to OT after suffering a mild concussion in the 1st half vs SF (we later lost).. Hes usually money in the clutch

definately doesnt go "cold when we need him the most"

bullis26

03-14-2009, 02:55 PM

it hit stokley right in the hands

if you are playing in the NFL i would expect you catch anything that you get your hands on.... it was a great pass

okay that pass in the super bowl from eli manning to david tyree it hit him in the hands, were you expecting him to catch that? i sure wasnt, there were three guys around him and i remeber that play, McGee had his hand on the ball, stokley wouldve had to pull something out of his ass to catch that something along the lines of david tyree

bullis26

03-14-2009, 02:55 PM

and EMB im not saying it wasnt a great pass because it was he put it in the one spot he needed to, but it was a terrible descion three guys around him, and he still throws it

EMB6903

03-14-2009, 03:06 PM

and EMB im not saying it wasnt a great pass because it was he put it in the one spot he needed to, but it was a terrible descion three guys around him, and he still throws it

I just looked at it (nfl.com video galleries) if you want to take a look

but it was a great throw and a great read.... didnt throw it in triple coverage stokley had his man beat and was open, just dropped it.

bullis26

03-14-2009, 03:07 PM

I just looked at it (nfl.com video galleries) if you want to take a look

but it was a great throw and a great read.... didnt throw it in triple coverage stokley had his man beat and was open, just dropped it.

yeah i'd like to see it, can you give me the link, im not saying your wrong, just it was a couple months ago and i thought it was triple coverage but it's hard to remeber ever detail of a play that happened three months ago that isnt just simply amazing

EMB6903

03-14-2009, 03:10 PM

http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=teams it doesnt give me the direct link, so you have to go to teams, then broncos, then scroll to page 4.... and click the link "NFL GAMEDAY Bills vs Broncos highlights"

bullis26

03-14-2009, 03:14 PM

okay stokely did have a great catch on that drive, and cutler had stokley wide open in the endzone and over threw him, but that last play stokley was still double covered and i think that was Ko Simpson (not sure)who made a play on that ball tipping it out of stokleys hands and then McGee should've been credited with the pick

EMB6903

03-14-2009, 03:18 PM

man this guy argues to argue... he loves it

It was not double coverage, Reggie Corner was covering stokley in the slot, and when Mcgee saw that cutler threw it he came to help, FAR FROM DOUBLE COVERAGE

It was a great decision and good throw...

bullis26

03-14-2009, 03:21 PM

bullis26

03-14-2009, 03:22 PM

and EMB your really the only person i argue with, and thats because you think your always right and will never admit when your wrong

turftoad

03-14-2009, 03:24 PM

Alright, knock off the personal stuff in here and keep it on topic.

EMB6903

03-14-2009, 03:25 PM

watch that play again there were two guys on him, thats called double coverage, regardless of why one was over there.... and it wasnt as great of throw as i thought he lobbbed that up there and that allowed McGee to get over there and it allowed corner to catch up, but the rush was in his face, it was bad blocking on the o-lines part

Why would Terrence Mcgee double Stokley in the slot when brandon marshall is playing on the line??

If Mcgee doubled Stokley from the start marshall would be wide open, it makes no sense to double a slot WR and leave a 6'4 230 lb Marshall open.... just because you see 2 defensive players at the end of the play doesnt mean he was doubled from the start, but Im not gonna argue about it anymore, it wasnt a double accept it or not

bullis26

03-14-2009, 03:31 PM

Why would Terrence Mcgee double Stokley in the slot when brandon marshall is playing on the line??

If Mcgee doubled Stokley from the start marshall would be wide open, it makes no sense to double a slot WR and leave a 6'4 230 lb Marshall open.... just because you see 2 defensive players at the end of the play doesnt mean he was doubled from the start, but Im not gonna argue about it anymore, it wasnt a double accept it or not

it ended up being double coverage is what im saying because it was a poor throw, maybe if you read what i saw, and marshall drops too many balls you forgot that in your description of marshall

EMB6903

03-14-2009, 03:33 PM

I'm glad McDaniels pointed out Jay's flaws. A little criticism never hurt anybody. Maybe it'll light a fire under his ass.

if this is true it gets me worried, Jay could definately use a little criticism, and if he cant accept that then his upside is very limited.

Lonestar

03-14-2009, 03:36 PM

well getting back to topic..

I firmly believe that Josh did the right thing IF in fact this was reported correctly..

IN person or over the phone jay needs to understand that he works for the Broncos which is Pat, Josh/Xman, OC, his position coach in that order. It is not the QB making the calls and he is a cog in the machinery..

If he is unwilling to do that then perhaps he should not report on Monday, BUT if he does get with the program as laid out by the HC.

That would be a very foolish thing to do but the ball is now in jays court..

Lonestar

03-14-2009, 03:42 PM

if this is true it gets me worried, Jay could definately use a little criticism, and if he cant accept that then his upside is very limited.

mikey encouraged him last year to make these types of passes allowed him to throw into double/triple coverage because his arm is strong..

I suspect that because of this going into a tightly controlled high percentage passing attack is going to be harder for jay than it would be some "backup" coming up through the system .. Once they have seen Paris it is hard for them to come back to the farm..

We have all seen what NE could do that past few years

We have also seen that many times the ball is forced, when there are other open WR/TE that are not named Marshall..

nevcraw

03-14-2009, 03:43 PM

Shanny would have never gotten dawkins, nor would he have even gone after dawkins

huh? The same coach who landed Neil Smith, John Lynch, traded for champ could not have gotten Dawkins or considered getting Dawkins? Not sure I see your logic...

EMB6903

03-14-2009, 03:49 PM

mikey encouraged him last year to make these types of passes allowed him to throw into double/triple coverage because his arm is strong..

I suspect that because of this going into a tightly controlled high percentage passing attack is going to be harder for jay than it would be some "backup" coming up through the system .. Once they have seen Paris it is hard for them to come back to the farm..

We have all seen what NE could do that past few years

We have also seen that many times the ball is forced, when there are other open WR/TE that are not named Marshall..

it will be harder temporarily for Cutler then it would have for Cassel ( thats the main reason I think Mcdaniels wanted Cassel over Cutler, because he knows from recent history that rookie head coaches are on a short leach, he didnt want to wait the 2-3 years of having Cutler adjust to his system and possibly being fired while waiting on him to adjust)

But in 2-3 years when Cutler has this system down pat?? I think he will be much more productive then Cassel

honz

03-14-2009, 03:55 PM

McDaniels is trying to coach one of his players? Fire him!!!

frauschieze

03-14-2009, 04:06 PM

Lonestar

03-14-2009, 04:09 PM

Unless I missed something when CEO is fired and they bring in a new one.. 98% maybe more they follow the direction and path of the new guy and not the old one..

When there are troubles in offices and they bring in a new manager to fix them, do they keep all of the policies and procedures the same..

Why would it be any different in this case?..

New man new ideas, schemes, policies.. means learning how to deal with him not Josh learning how mikey did it..

SmilinAssasSin27

03-14-2009, 04:13 PM

I don't care when or how he did it. If the coach is giving his QB constructive criticism...isn't that his job? I don't get why folks are so offended that he is actually trying to do his job and doesn't feel the need to treat a grown man w/ kid gloves. If this were happening w/ a different franchise, some of you would be bashing the player for being a prima donna (sp?).

broncophan

03-14-2009, 04:44 PM

Just my opinion.....but I am sure Cutler has not had to take criticism since ....probably his junior high school days....his high school had probably never seen a qb like him.....and Vandy sure had not had a qb with the talent of Cutler.

Shanahan loved the kid and probably kissed his but....and probably was not too critical.

I chalk all this up to Cutler not being able to adjust to change and adversity........

and if we don't trade him soon.....as long as this mess continues.....his trade value will drop like a rock......and we won't even get a top 10 or 15 pick for him.......again....just my opinion.

One way or another.......get this mess over with....

Northman

03-14-2009, 06:01 PM

I'm glad McDaniels pointed out Jay's flaws. A little criticism never hurt anybody. Maybe it'll light a fire under his ass.

Although i love Jay it is absolutely painfully obvious Shanahan babied him far too much. This is a nightmare. So what if McD said he had to work on some things? Is anyone going to tell me that he is lying? Gimme a break. Jay needs to get over his insecurities already.

scott.475

03-14-2009, 06:04 PM

This is all about context. If this did in fact happen, it happened during a conference call in which the Bronco's were trying smooth things over with Jay. Now, like it or not, franchises DO treat their start players differently...a couple years ago LT could have gotten ANYTHING he wanted...there are many examples. Jay is one of our star players, period. If I had been told that I was the QB, then heard through media outlets they had tried to trade me I would be plenty mad too.

Anyway, back to context. During a call where you are trying to smooth things over is not the time to point out all the guy's faults...there is a time and place for everything. I don't think ANY of us think Jay is above criticism, but it should be leveled at the right time and place and in context. This is akin to standing in the middle of your burning house and arguing with your wife because she left the iron on, when you should be putting out the fire.

At this point I am growing quite skeptical of a lot of these stories, there may be a lot less to this in reality than what the media is portraying. I am not so sure Jay is as childish as he is being portrayed, not sure McD is as incompetent at dealing with people as he appears.

Lonestar

03-14-2009, 06:05 PM

Although i love Jay it is absolutely painfully obvious Shanahan babied him far too much. This is a nightmare. So what if McD said he had to work on some things? Is anyone going to tell me that he is lying? Gimme a break. Jay needs to get over his insecurities already.

but, but, but, jay is a pro bowl QB isn't that enough?

broncohead

03-14-2009, 06:06 PM

Honestly though McD hasn't even seen Jay play in person to critisize him. And over the phone? Give me a break.

Watchthemiddle

03-14-2009, 06:11 PM

I'm glad McDaniels pointed out Jay's flaws. A little criticism never hurt anybody. Maybe it'll light a fire under his ass.

Every player in the NFL can use some constructive criticism after and during each season. Especially a 25 yo green QB who thinks he is all world already and doesn't need to improve.

Excuse me, but last I checked its the coaches job to coach and critic his talent. Not just let the players run rampid if they need improvement.

Northman

03-14-2009, 06:12 PM

but, but, but, jay is a pro bowl QB isn't that enough?

Well, yes he is a pro bowl QB. I still believe he deserved that. However, he is also a 26 year athlete who seems to all of a sudden think his shit dont stink. Yes, you can be mad that they tried to trade you. But again, it didnt happen. So why punish the rest of your teammates by pouting and crying about it? He needs to get the **** over it, get to this meeting and began working on the 09' season. If the Coach says there are some things you need to work on (and there's truth to it?) than thats how it is. He is the Coach, you are the player. Shanahan is gone, Bates is gone, time to move on. Either you want to be here or you dont. Your actions are showing me that you dont want to be here. If thats the case, you need to go.

SmilinAssasSin27

03-14-2009, 06:13 PM

Honestly though McD hasn't even seen Jay play in person to critisize him. And over the phone? Give me a break.

dude...we all saw that Jay forces it way too much...and we're not affiliated w/ the NFL. I think McDaniels can figure out that Cutty has some things to work on.

Northman

03-14-2009, 06:14 PM

Honestly though McD hasn't even seen Jay play in person to critisize him.

Really? Where was McD last year when we went and got slaughtered by NE?

broncophan

03-14-2009, 06:20 PM

Really? Where was McD last year when we went and got slaughtered by NE?

LOL.....he was over there on the NE sidelines thinking "man....if I ever become a head coach......I hope this kid Cutler is never going to be my qb".....

frauschieze

03-14-2009, 06:21 PM

Every player in the NFL can use some constructive criticism after and during each season. Especially a 25 yo green QB who thinks he is all world already and doesn't need to improve.

Excuse me, but last I checked its the coaches job to coach and critic his talent. Not just let the players run rampid if they need improvement.

I agree.....but timing is important. If this happened, then it was at an inappropriate time.

Off hand, I'd say a better time would have been....say.... the two weeks prior to the FA period when Jay and Josh were together every day going of the playbook! Face to face talking about where the team is going and what is needed.

Egad, this is not rocket science (directed at McDaniels) and it's still a business (directed to Cutler). :rolleyes:

honz

03-14-2009, 06:24 PM

Really? Where was McD last year when we went and got slaughtered by NE?

Plus, there is this thing called game film...

SmilinAssasSin27

03-14-2009, 06:26 PM

Plus, there is this thing called game film...

Didn't you hear the new rule...You can't watch game film on a player you haven't met in person.

Watchthemiddle

03-14-2009, 06:27 PM

I agree.....but timing is important. If this happened, then it was at an inappropriate time.

Off hand, I'd say a better time would have been....say.... the two weeks prior to the FA period when Jay and Josh were together every day going of the playbook! Face to face talking about where the team is going and what is needed.

Egad, this is not rocket science (directed at McDaniels) and it's still a business (directed to Cutler). :rolleyes:

Timing is important and from the looks of it, this might have been the only time for McD to tell Cutler what he needs to work on. :laugh:

broncohead

03-14-2009, 06:34 PM

dude...we all saw that Jay forces it way too much...and we're not affiliated w/ the NFL. I think McDaniels can figure out that Cutty has some things to work on.

I agree with both points but with the resent events that have taken place between the 2 it could have waited. The first time McD and Cutler talked after the trade talks he told Cutler he's expendable and the sencond time he critisizes him. A coach has every right to critisize a player but it was at the wrong time. Let it wait till workouts, not over the phone.

broncohead

03-14-2009, 06:37 PM

Plus, there is this thing called game film...

There is only so much you can see in game film.

honz

03-14-2009, 06:40 PM

There is only so much you can see in game film.

Like everything?

broncohead

03-14-2009, 06:44 PM

Like everything?

So what's the reason behind a player being a 1st round bust? Their gamefilms are watched over and over. Surely a team would know everything about their game.

Watchthemiddle

03-14-2009, 06:50 PM

So what's the reason behind a player being a 1st round bust? Their gamefilms are watched over and over. Surely a team would know everything about their game.

True, but do they know everything about their pouty attitude and lack of leadership skills?

honz

03-14-2009, 06:56 PM

So what's the reason behind a player being a 1st round bust? Their gamefilms are watched over and over. Surely a team would know everything about their game.
Well, the draft is a little different. Players are drafted on potential sometimes and no one is quite sure how their game will transfer when they have to go up against NFL competition. A couple of years of game film on Cutler is more than enough to be able to figure out what he does well and what he needs to work on. Hell, most casual fans could tell you that Cutler needs to work on his decision making and stop forcing things so much.

broncohead

03-14-2009, 07:15 PM

Well, the draft is a little different. Players are drafted on potential sometimes and no one is quite sure how their game will transfer when they have to go up against NFL competition. A couple of years of game film on Cutler is more than enough to be able to figure out what he does well and what he needs to work on. Hell, most casual fans could tell you that Cutler needs to work on his decision making and stop forcing things so much.

I guess I was speaking about his whole game not just a couple aspects but I agree.

Northman

03-14-2009, 08:38 PM

Well, the draft is a little different. Players are drafted on potential sometimes and no one is quite sure how their game will transfer when they have to go up against NFL competition. A couple of years of game film on Cutler is more than enough to be able to figure out what he does well and what he needs to work on. Hell, most casual fans could tell you that Cutler needs to work on his decision making and stop forcing things so much.

Exactly why guys like Derek Anderson found that he wouldnt have the same success as the year before. Might be the same reason why Cassell might find that the grass isnt always greener. Once they have film on you they can find all of your tendencies of when you play well and also crash.

Lonestar

03-14-2009, 08:50 PM

I agree with both points but with the resent events that have taken place between the 2 it could have waited. The first time McD and Cutler talked after the trade talks he told Cutler he's expendable and the sencond time he critisizes him. A coach has every right to critisize a player but it was at the wrong time. Let it wait till workouts, not over the phone.

I'm also guess that Josh may have been having a good conversation when, either bus or jay may have asked/ranted:

about being traded or what is the policy about it or even better wanting a absolute guarantee he would not be traded..
about having flaws in his game..

since none of us were in the room we will never know for sure who if anyone egged either on..

Of course it may have been just the opposite but from the lack of ranting in the new papers from the broncos side.. I'll just venture a WAG it got started by bus or jay..

WARHORSE

03-14-2009, 09:06 PM

watch that play again there were two guys on him, thats called double coverage, regardless of why one was over there.... and it wasnt as great of throw as i thought he lobbbed that up there and that allowed McGee to get over there and it allowed corner to catch up, but the rush was in his face, it was bad blocking on the o-lines part

Its a dumb argument on your part. The ball hit the man in the hands.
What part of that dont you understand?
:tsk:
There were three men on Santana Holmes when Ben threw the ball to him in the corner of the endzone to win the superbowl.

Dumb decision?

You cant defend the perfect pass.

Why dont you ask Stokely what he was supposed to do with that?:tsk:

WARHORSE

03-14-2009, 09:08 PM

If McDaniels really chose that time to go over in detail the things Cutler needs to work on..........as if he didnt know already............McDaniels is dumber than I thought, and hasnt a clue.

scott.475

03-14-2009, 10:07 PM

I am really looking forward to the end of the day Monday to see what happens and get all this speculation, he said/he said behind us.

bullis26

03-14-2009, 11:04 PM

huh? The same coach who landed Neil Smith, John Lynch, traded for champ could not have gotten Dawkins or considered getting Dawkins? Not sure I see your logic...

John Lynch was relseased from the bucs, so he wasnt going back there, where dawkins still was able to go back to the eagles, he jsut didnt think the eagles were giving him anything close to what he deserved, and the eagles didnt think there was any market value for dawkins, boy are they wrong....and shanahan would trade a RB for anything, he had how many different running backs? He could not keep the same one year after year since TD

bullis26

03-14-2009, 11:06 PM

Its a dumb argument on your part. The ball hit the man in the hands.
What part of that dont you understand?
:tsk:
There were three men on Santana Holmes when Ben threw the ball to him in the corner of the endzone to win the superbowl.

Dumb decision?

You cant defend the perfect pass.

Why dont you ask Stokely what he was supposed to do with that?:tsk:

that was far from a perfect pass, watch the video, cutler just lobbed the ball up, and nobody touched the ball but santonio, this wouldve been a much much harder catch then what santonio made, there was a guy with his hands on the ball, this wouldve had to of been something like a david tyree catch

rcsodak

03-15-2009, 01:06 AM

i hope you were kidding, coaches run the show, once players start doing that we are the dallas cowboys 2008 edition

(/sarcasm)

rcsodak

03-15-2009, 01:22 AM

Honestly though McD hasn't even seen Jay play in person to critisize him. And over the phone? Give me a break.

Ummm....I seem to remember a Broncos THRASHING at the hands of the Pats last year. And last I knew, McD was the OC.
So I'm pretty sure he had a first-hand knowledge of cutler.

And I'm thinking he might have been involved in pre-draft analysis of the QB's in '06, but that's just a guess.

rcsodak

03-15-2009, 01:27 AM

So what's the reason behind a player being a 1st round bust? Their gamefilms are watched over and over. Surely a team would know everything about their game.

You mean college game film?

A little different than actual NFL film, wouldn't you say?

Dean

03-15-2009, 08:10 AM

I have found that how a player takes criticism is dependent upon how I present that criticism.

If you berate him (particularly in front of others), tell him he has to change a miriad of different things, and tell him he has lost games; you will not get the desired response. Rather, pick one or two changes that you want made and show him on film. Take the approach during the film session what would have happened if you had done this. Don't present it that what he did sucked. He wants to win as badly as anyone else. When he has corrected what you set out to accomplish move on to the next item. Offer alternatives not condemnation. He is not the only player on the field at any given time making mistakes and poor decissions. No one play loses a game.

It is the coaches' responsibility to maximize each player's abilities not to present communication or psychological roadblocks for him. If you convince a player that he can't do the job, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Lonestar

03-15-2009, 12:11 PM

I have found that how a player takes criticism is dependent upon how I present that criticism.

If you berate him (paeticularly in front of others), tell him he has to change a miriad of different things, and tell he has lost games; you will not get the desired response. Rather, pick one or two changes that you want made and show him on film. Take the approach during the film session what would have happened if you had done this. Don't present it that what he did sucked. He wants to win as badly as anyone else. When he has corrected what you set out to accomplish move on to the next item. Offer alternatives not condemnation. He is not the only player on the field at any given time making mistakes and poor decissions. No one play loses a game.

It is the coaches' responsibility to maximize each player's abilities not to present communication or psychological roadblocks for him. If you convince a player that he can't do the job, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Did you ever have a gifted player that you could never get through to?

Get them completely on board or take so long getting the points across one by one..

Or have a dad interfere with the process to the point of having to ban him from the porcess?

Requiem / The Dagda

03-15-2009, 12:18 PM

topscribe

03-15-2009, 12:25 PM

I have found that how a player takes criticism is dependent upon how I present that criticism.

If you berate him (paeticularly in front of others), tell him he has to change a miriad of different things, and tell he has lost games; you will not get the desired response. Rather, pick one or two changes that you want made and show him on film. Take the approach during the film session what would have happened if you had done this. Don't present it that what he did sucked. He wants to win as badly as anyone else. When he has corrected what you set out to accomplish move on to the next item. Offer alternatives not condemnation. He is not the only player on the field at any given time making mistakes and poor decissions. No one play loses a game.

It is the coaches' responsibility to maximize each player's abilities not to present communication or psychological roadblocks for him. If you convince a player that he can't do the job, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Exactly, Coach . . . which makes me wonder why McD chose that phone call
to mention all those things, if that indeed is what came down. On the
surface, such a move would seem to be part of a quarrel and not constructive
criticism. The time to bring up those points would be in the film room, in a
more appropriate setting.

That phone call should have been simply about mending the relationship, not
what Jay has and has not done on the field. It all just seems to point to a
lack of people skills. And people skills are the most important skills in any form
of management.

As I mentioned in the other thread, we don't know what is going on behind
closed doors, but it's not fostering much faith from within me, whatever it is . . .

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Requiem / The Dagda

03-15-2009, 12:30 PM

McDaniels must have horrible communication skills. How did he ever get this far? Damn. Lucky guy.

rcsodak

03-15-2009, 10:40 PM

Why can't they just kiss and make up before trying to add more fuel to the fire?

McD has every right to, and indeed, SHOULD criticize Cutler's play and tell him every last little detail he needs to work on and improve. It's his job as a coach. And it's also his job to help Cutler with that and give him the tools he needs.

But can't it freakin' wait until this nightmare is over? What on earth could he have possibly gained in trying to do that "coaching" over the phone? I just don't get it.

I heard they tried, but Cutler went a little too far..... ;)

BWilliamson found the best line of all the opines out there.....

Cutler's name was brought up a lot at that event, a roast for longtime Broncos trainer Steve Antonopulos. Former Denver offensive lineman Mark Cooper, who played in the 1980s, cracked: "Times have changed around here. Now players cry when they hear they're going to be traded." lmao!

igorbstrange

03-16-2009, 02:50 AM

(Sniff, sniff)
I smell a rat here.
Bus Cook is the Cutler "insider" spreading manure and making this weed grow and grow.
Why?
Long-term contract or trade? Follow the money to find the source. If X and Bowlen give in Bus gets the money. If Cutler is traded they demand a long term contract and Bus gets the money.
Mo Money, Mo Money.
Wake up, Jay. Money doesn't buy you Championships, and Championships get you a HOF career (ask John Elway) and a good life on a good team.

WARHORSE

03-16-2009, 03:21 AM

Ummm....I seem to remember a Broncos THRASHING at the hands of the Pats last year. And last I knew, McD was the OC.
So I'm pretty sure he had a first-hand knowledge of cutler.

And I'm thinking he might have been involved in pre-draft analysis of the QB's in '06, but that's just a guess.

Of course, thats why McDaniels was kissing Jays butt when he walked in the door of dove valley..........talking about how eager he was to work with him, and giving him all the accolades..................FAIL!

WARHORSE

03-16-2009, 03:22 AM

Dean

03-16-2009, 05:01 AM

Ummm....I seem to remember a Broncos THRASHING at the hands of the Pats last year. And last I knew, McD was the OC.
So I'm pretty sure he had a first-hand knowledge of cutler.

And I'm thinking he might have been involved in pre-draft analysis of the QB's in '06, but that's just a guess.

RC- As an offensive coordinator, the video McKid received and watched was of the Broncos' defense. Offense, defense, and special teams are already seperated. I use the term defense for what we put on the field for lack of a better term. ;)

fcspikeit

03-16-2009, 06:00 AM

I guess this rumor was a bunch of Bull.. I had a hard time believing Cutler was that upset about a little criticism..

McDaniels and Cutler agreed on at least one element of the controversy, knocking down a Sunday report on NFL Network that the coach had criticized the quarterback's play in 2008.

"That just isn't true," McDaniels said. "Not a word has been said about that."

Cutler added: "Josh has never said anything negative to me about my play or anything else, for that matter."

rcsodak

03-18-2009, 11:29 PM

Of course, thats why McDaniels was kissing Jays butt when he walked in the door of dove valley..........talking about how eager he was to work with him, and giving him all the accolades..................FAIL!

You know who IGNORANT that is?

Make a valid argument instead of childish banter.

ANY new mgr, coming into an organization, is FIRST, going to prop up the 'players', and then start delving into making changes if necessary. Otherwise, the 'players' become backbenchers and chaos develops.

rcsodak

03-18-2009, 11:32 PM

RC- As an offensive coordinator, the video McKid received and watched was of the Broncos' defense. Offense, defense, and special teams are already seperated. I use the term defense for what we put on the field for lack of a better term. ;)

True, coach, but when he's on the opposite side of the football field, while the game is going on, I think he MIGHT have had a chance to see Cutler in action, no? *wink*

And isn't it true, that the NFL is a "copycat" league, and many OC's/DC's watch other teams to see what's new and working?

rcsodak

03-18-2009, 11:34 PM

I guess this rumor was a bunch of Bull.. I had a hard time believing Cutler was that upset about a little criticism..

Did Cutler ever call Shanny "Mike", or was it always "Coach Shannahan"?

topscribe

03-18-2009, 11:36 PM

Michael Lombardi reports that on Monday's conference call, Jay Cutler took coaching from Josh McDaniels as criticism which became a point of contention and bother from Cutler that has led to "part two of the ongoing saga."

Lombardi reports McDaniels went over in detail what Cutler needs to do to become a better player: cut down on turnovers, work within the offense, play within the framework of the offense and don't take too many chances - and apparently this didn't sit too well with Cutler.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f4043b

All i know is if this is true, Jay needs to go. Jay cant possibly believe that he has nothing to work on. Hopefully this report is rubbish.

I'm not going to sort through 91 posts to see whether someone else has
covered this, but both Cutler and his agent have categorically denied that
McDaniels has yet voiced any criticism over Cutler's play. Moreover, McDaniels
himself has not publicly responded to this report, to my knowledge.

So I have to conclude that Lombardi's report is not true . . .

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Lonestar

03-18-2009, 11:38 PM

I guess this rumor was a bunch of Bull.. I had a hard time believing Cutler was that upset about a little criticism..

Quote:
McDaniels and Cutler agreed on at least one element of the controversy, knocking down a Sunday report on NFL Network that the coach had criticized the quarterback's play in 2008.

"That just isn't true," McDaniels said. "Not a word has been said about that."

Cutler added: "Josh has never said anything negative to me about my play or anything else, for that matter."

I'm not going to sort through 91 posts to see whether someone else has
covered this, but both Cutler and his agent have categorically denied that
McDaniels has yet voiced any criticism over Cutler's play. Moreover, McDaniels
himself has not publicly responded to this report, to my knowledge.

So I have to conclude that Lombardi's report is not true . . .

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it was on the previous page..