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WARHORSE
03-13-2009, 09:09 PM
Heres from the book 'FOOTBALL FOR DUMMIES' for all those who need help in understanding what Cutler is:

Edit: In the HISTORY of the NFL, ALL the QBs who have thrown for 4500 yards in a single season, and the years they did it. (Yes, I know Cutler threw for 4473) The stats still stand

1980 Dan Fouts
1981 Dan Fouts

1984 Dan Marino
1986 Dan Marino

1990 Warren Moon
1991 Warren Moon

1994 Drew Bledsoe
2001 Kurt Warner

2002 Rich Gannon
2004 Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Daunte Culpepper(thank randy moss)

2007 Tom Brady

2008 Drew Brees, Kurt Warner and JAY CUTLER.


DOES ANY OF THIS REGISTER WITH YOU WHO THINK CUTLER HASNT DONE ANYTHING??

Jeff George? He broke 4000 yards once, 3000 yards twice, and never broke the 3000 yard mark any other time in a 14 year career. His 4100 yard year came in year 6 of his career.


IF WE TRADE CUTLER -BOWLEN, MCDANIELS AND EVERY OTHER DUMMY WHO PUTS THEIR HAND TO IT ARE THE DUMBEST FRONT OFFICE IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME, BECAUSE THESE DUMMIES ARE GOING TO DO IT AFTER THEY KNEW HE THREW FOR 4500 YARDS IN A SINGLE SEASON................



By the way............Manning has passed for over 4400 yards twice in his career. First time he broke 4473.......Cutlers mark...........was YEAR SEVEN. That was with Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison in their prime.



You dont trade guys like this for MATT CASSELLS.


Far as Im concerned, Cutler hasnt done a single thing but play hard here, and be cocky confident. Has he done anything to warrant trading him away??? Not a damn thing.

broncohead
03-13-2009, 09:19 PM
Everyone also fails to remember this is a TEAM sport with 21 other players on the field at one time. Let's blame it all on one guy...

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 05:12 AM
Everyone also fails to remember this is a TEAM sport with 21 other players on the field at one time. Let's blame it all on one guy...


Boy the crickets sure are chirping in here.


Funny how those facts kick you in the face, huh?


You get ready to reply, and then your mouth clamps shut, and your brain locks.

Thats the time you click to another thread.



Cant really say a whole lot when there are only eleven QBs, in the last 30 yrs who have thrown for 4500 yards in a single season.

And missing on this list are Favre, Elway, Montana, Young, Aikman, Kelly and a slew of others.

Other than the great Dan Marino, none have even come close to doing it in their third year.

Whats the other kick in yer teeth fact about Cutler? Hes the ONLY one out of all of these guys that is mobile.
(Moon was somewhat)

I sure hope someone is telling McDaniels to iron this thing out quickly and smoothly, cause Cutler is going to make him look like a GENIUS.


Lets not get so SMART McDaniels, that we cant see a very uniquely gifted QB on our roster.

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 05:27 AM
For those who missed my edit above, these are the ONLY QBs to have done it in the HISTORY of the NFL.

Cutler is the twelfth person to pass for that mark or more.

In his third season.


And we were entertaining trading him................................McDaniels better get some satellites for that fat head of his.


12 QBs out of umpteen gazillion that have played in the NFL.

claymore
03-14-2009, 06:58 AM
War,

Whats the most important position on a football team and the hardest one to fill?

Signed,

Josh Mcdaniels

Den21vsBal19
03-14-2009, 07:32 AM
A couple of quick thoughts about those 16 named players...............

Of the 16, 9 of them are in the last 8 seasons..................maybe the game has changed somewhat over time :whoknows:


Only five of them went to the Superbowl, losing all five games............Marino (only one pre-2000), Warner (twice), Gannon & Brady.

Or to put it another way, of the 42 Superbowl winning QBs, exactly none of them had 4,500 yards in the regular season.

Dean
03-14-2009, 07:50 AM
I am relatively sure that McKid is aware of all this. IMO he just wanted a QB who could hit the field in the first game with a total command of the offense. To me, this looked like a job security moxe on McKid's part. Now, he doesnt know how to get out of the situation he created. It is easy to drown in inexperience.

I wonder why Pat Bowlen is getting a Mulligan on this whole fiasco :questionmark: . The man who fired Shanahan and the Goodmans; the man who numerous times stated that he makes the final decission seems to want to cowar behind locked doors and leave all decissions to a newbie.

Come on Pat. Step up fix this cluster ****. You hired him so it is your job to baby sit him until the season starts and he can be in a situation he is familiar with. :coffee:

gobroncsnv
03-14-2009, 08:09 AM
Spot on, Dean... We've been pretty blessed the past years with not having an activist owner (Jones, Davis). Pat needs to show up on this one, and not just let it work itself out. And it could be that he is, I don't begin to think that I have any "inside the huddle" info, but there are no reports that he's done so. We definitely need to see this mess in our rear view mirrors, and soon.

Den21vsBal19
03-14-2009, 08:13 AM
Spot on, Dean... We've been pretty blessed the past years with not having an activist owner (Jones, Davis). Pat needs to show up on this one, and not just let it work itself out. And it could be that he is, I don't begin to think that I have any "inside the huddle" info, but there are no reports that he's done so. We definitely need to see this mess in our rear view mirrors, and soon.
Not going to post the whole article, you can read it here (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11910137), but this line caught my eye.............


More significant is Cutler's loss of his closest ally at Broncos headquarters. When he failed to return owner Pat Bowlen's phone calls in the midst of his standoff with new coach Josh McDaniels, I'm told Bowlen was apoplectic.

If McDaniels' refusal to come clean about shopping Cutler in trade talks was the eye-opener for the quarterback, Cutler's failure to return his phone calls may have done the trick for Bowlen.

BroncoJoe
03-14-2009, 08:16 AM
War, just curious. How many of those 4,500 yard passers have rings?

Den21vsBal19
03-14-2009, 08:18 AM
War, just curious. How many of those 4,500 yard passers have rings?


A couple of quick thoughts about those 16 named players...............

Of the 16, 9 of them are in the last 8 seasons..................maybe the game has changed somewhat over time :whoknows:


Only five of them went to the Superbowl, losing all five games............Marino (only one pre-2000), Warner (twice), Gannon & Brady.

Or to put it another way, of the 42 Superbowl winning QBs, exactly none of them had 4,500 yards in the regular season.

IIRC, None ;)

BroncoJoe
03-14-2009, 08:20 AM
IIRC, None ;)

Nicely done, Den. I didn't notice your post!

Den21vsBal19
03-14-2009, 08:21 AM
Nicely done, Den. I didn't notice your post!
I'm at work, and I'm bored...................thought I might as well do something useful ;)

Dean
03-14-2009, 09:24 AM
Not going to post the whole article, you can read it here (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11910137), but this line caught my eye.............

Interesting article. I was most interested in Jay's unacknowledged support to Denvers youth.





Saturday, March 14, 2009

It must have been quite a surprise for Cutler to learn he was just another employee, like you or me, and should act like one. Over the past three years, whenever he didn't comb his hair or wear a tie, someone was quick to point out he held the most high-profile job in Colorado, more prominent than even the governor's.

So which is it? Does he have a job that requires a commitment above and beyond the call, or is he just another working stiff?

True story: Last year, the Rev. Leon Kelly told kids in his Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives program he would have to cancel the summer session for lack of money. Cutler heard about it, wrote a check and the session was restored.

At Christmas, Kelly wanted to do something a little extra for the kids he's trying to keep out of gangs — a party with food and favors. Cutler wrote another check, then showed up to sign autographs. His parents helped set up the tree.

Never said a word or put out a press release either time. In fact, he let teammate Brandon Marshall get the attention for helping Open Door — Marshall gave most of his days off to the program last year — rather than draw attention to himself.

In the wake of the gang-related murder of former Broncos cornerback Darrent Williams, Kelly's was a cause close to the Broncos' hearts. This is what Cutler thought commitment meant. He thought the feeling was mutual. When McDaniels took over, he learned it wasn't. Grow up, he's told now. It's a business. Don't be a baby.

So now he knows. And if he's going, he's ready.

Dave Krieger: 303-954-5297 or dkrieger@denverpost.com

nthngd2say
03-14-2009, 09:47 AM
For all the attention paid to Cutler's yardage stats, where is he on this list:

Single Season NFL Passing TD Leaders
Rk Player Team TDs Year
1 Tom Brady New England Patriots 50 2007
2 Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts 49 2004
3 Dan Marino Miami Dolphins 48 1984
4 Dan Marino Miami Dolphins 44 1986
5 Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams 41 1999
T6 Daunte Culpepper Minnesota Vikings 39 2004
T6 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 39 1996
8 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 38 1995
T9 Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams 36 2001
T9 Steve Beuerlein Carolina Panthers 36 1999
T9 Steve Young San Francisco 49ers 36 1998
T9 Y.A. Tittle New York Giants 36 1963
T9 George Blanda Houston Oilers 36 1961
T14 Steve Young San Francisco 49ers 35 1994
T14 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 35 1997
T14 Tony Romo Dallas Cowboys 35 2007
T17 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints 34 2008
T17 Philip Rivers San Diego Chargers 34 2008
T17 Randall Cunningham Minnesota Vikings 34 1998
T17 Daryle Lamonica Oakland Raiders 34 1969
T21 Y.A. Tittle New York Giants 33 1962
T21 Dan Fouts San Diego Chargers 33 1981
T21 Warren Moon Houston Oilers 33 1990
T21 Jim Kelly Buffalo Bills 33 1991
T21 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 33 1994
T21 Warren Moon Minnesota Vikings 33 1995
T21 Vinny Testaverde Baltimore Ravens 33 1996
T21 Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts 33 2000
T21 Daunte Culpepper Minnesota Vikings 33 2000
T30 Johnny Unitas Baltimore Colts 32 1959
T30 Sonny Jurgensen Philadephia Eagles 32 1961
T30 Lynn Dickey Green Bay Packers 32 1983
T30 Dave Krieg Seattle Seahawks 32 1984
T30 Scott Mitchell Detroit Lions 32 1995
T30 Jeff Garcia San Francisco 49ers 32 2001
T30 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 32 2001
T30 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 32 2003
T30 Carson Palmer Cincinnati Bengals 32 2005

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 09:52 AM
War, just curious. How many of those 4,500 yard passers have rings?


Four.


Twelve superbowl appearances between them.

And five are, or will be HOFers



Fouts, Marino, Manning, Brady, and Moon.

Warner is on the bubble.

You know this.....
Are you saying this discounts what they did and you dont recognize how good these guys are?

nthngd2say
03-14-2009, 09:54 AM
Again, with all the attention paid to Cutler's yardage stats, this list wasn't mentioned either:
Active Passes Intercepted Leaders
Football Leaders & Football Records : Single-Season · Career · Active · Year-by-Year
Rank Player (age), + - HOFer, Bold - Active Int Years Teams
1. Brett Favre (39) 310 1991-2008
2. Kerry Collins (36) 179 1995-2008
3. Peyton Manning (32) 165 1998-2008
4. Jon Kitna (36) 151 1997-2008
5. Brad Johnson (40) 122 1994-2008
6. Kurt Warner (37) 114 1998-2008
7. Trent Green (38) 114 1997-2008
8. Gus Frerotte (37) 106 1994-2008
9. Daunte Culpepper (31) 100 1999-2008
10. Drew Brees (29) 99 2001-2008
11. Brian Griese (33) 99 1998-2008
12. Matt Hasselbeck (33) 94 1999-2008
13. Donovan McNabb (32) 90 1999-2008
14. Marc Bulger (31) 87 2002-2008
15. Tom Brady (31) 86 2000-2008
16. Jeff Garcia (38) 83 1999-2008
17. Jake Delhomme (33) 76 1999-2008
18. Eli Manning (27) 74 2004-2008
19. David Carr (29) 70 2002-2008
20. Ben Roethlisberger (26) 69 2004-2008
21. Carson Palmer (29) 67 2004-2008
22. Chad Pennington (32) 62 2000-2008
23. Tony Romo (28) 46 2004-2008
24. Josh McCown (29) 40 2002-2008
25. Byron Leftwich (28) 38 2003-2008
26. Jay Cutler (25) 37 2006-2008
27. Philip Rivers (27) 36 2004-2008
28. Derek Anderson (25) 35 2006-2008
29. Rex Grossman (28) 35 2003-2008
30. J.P. Losman (27) 34 2004-2008
31. Vince Young (25) 32 2006-2008
32. Patrick Ramsey (29) 30 2002-2008
33. Sage Rosenfels (30) 29 2002-2008
34. David Garrard (30) 29 2002-2008
35. Kyle Orton (26) 27 2005-2008
36. Damon Huard (35) 26 1998-2008
37. Charlie Frye (27) 25 2005-2008
38. Matt Schaub (27) 25 2004-2008
39. Jason Campbell (27) 23 2006-2008
40. Ken Dorsey (27) 18 2004-2008
41. Trent Edwards (25) 18 2007-2008
42. Tarvaris Jackson (25) 18 2006-2008
43. Ryan Fitzpatrick (26) 17 2005-2008
44. Matt Leinart (25) 17 2006-2008
45. Chris Simms (28) 17 2004-2008
46. Andrew Walter (26) 16 2006-2008
47. Aaron Rodgers (25) 14 2005-2008
48. Matt Cassel (26) 13 2005-2008
49. Bruce Gradkowski (25) 13 2006-2008
50. J.T. O'Sullivan (29) 13 2004-2008
51. Tyler Thigpen (24) 13 2007-2008 kan

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 09:55 AM
For all the attention paid to Cutler's yardage stats, where is he on this list:

Single Season NFL Passing TD Leaders
Rk Player Team TDs Year
1 Tom Brady New England Patriots 50 2007
2 Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts 49 2004
3 Dan Marino Miami Dolphins 48 1984
4 Dan Marino Miami Dolphins 44 1986
5 Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams 41 1999
T6 Daunte Culpepper Minnesota Vikings 39 2004
T6 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 39 1996
8 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 38 1995
T9 Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams 36 2001
T9 Steve Beuerlein Carolina Panthers 36 1999
T9 Steve Young San Francisco 49ers 36 1998
T9 Y.A. Tittle New York Giants 36 1963
T9 George Blanda Houston Oilers 36 1961
T14 Steve Young San Francisco 49ers 35 1994
T14 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 35 1997
T14 Tony Romo Dallas Cowboys 35 2007
T17 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints 34 2008
T17 Philip Rivers San Diego Chargers 34 2008
T17 Randall Cunningham Minnesota Vikings 34 1998
T17 Daryle Lamonica Oakland Raiders 34 1969
T21 Y.A. Tittle New York Giants 33 1962
T21 Dan Fouts San Diego Chargers 33 1981
T21 Warren Moon Houston Oilers 33 1990
T21 Jim Kelly Buffalo Bills 33 1991
T21 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 33 1994
T21 Warren Moon Minnesota Vikings 33 1995
T21 Vinny Testaverde Baltimore Ravens 33 1996
T21 Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts 33 2000
T21 Daunte Culpepper Minnesota Vikings 33 2000
T30 Johnny Unitas Baltimore Colts 32 1959
T30 Sonny Jurgensen Philadephia Eagles 32 1961
T30 Lynn Dickey Green Bay Packers 32 1983
T30 Dave Krieg Seattle Seahawks 32 1984
T30 Scott Mitchell Detroit Lions 32 1995
T30 Jeff Garcia San Francisco 49ers 32 2001
T30 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 32 2001
T30 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers 32 2003
T30 Carson Palmer Cincinnati Bengals 32 2005


And just so Bronco Joe doesnt have to ask you..........how many have rings?

claymore
03-14-2009, 09:58 AM
Again, with all the attention paid to Cutler's yardage stats, this list wasn't mentioned either:
Active Passes Intercepted Leaders
Football Leaders & Football Records : Single-Season · Career · Active · Year-by-Year
Rank Player (age), + - HOFer, Bold - Active Int Years Teams
1. Brett Favre (39) 310 1991-2008
2. Kerry Collins (36) 179 1995-2008
3. Peyton Manning (32) 165 1998-2008
4. Jon Kitna (36) 151 1997-2008
5. Brad Johnson (40) 122 1994-2008
6. Kurt Warner (37) 114 1998-2008
7. Trent Green (38) 114 1997-2008
8. Gus Frerotte (37) 106 1994-2008
9. Daunte Culpepper (31) 100 1999-2008
10. Drew Brees (29) 99 2001-2008
11. Brian Griese (33) 99 1998-2008
12. Matt Hasselbeck (33) 94 1999-2008
13. Donovan McNabb (32) 90 1999-2008
14. Marc Bulger (31) 87 2002-2008
15. Tom Brady (31) 86 2000-2008
16. Jeff Garcia (38) 83 1999-2008
17. Jake Delhomme (33) 76 1999-2008
18. Eli Manning (27) 74 2004-2008
19. David Carr (29) 70 2002-2008
20. Ben Roethlisberger (26) 69 2004-2008
21. Carson Palmer (29) 67 2004-2008
22. Chad Pennington (32) 62 2000-2008
23. Tony Romo (28) 46 2004-2008
24. Josh McCown (29) 40 2002-2008
25. Byron Leftwich (28) 38 2003-2008
26. Jay Cutler (25) 37 2006-2008
27. Philip Rivers (27) 36 2004-2008
28. Derek Anderson (25) 35 2006-2008
29. Rex Grossman (28) 35 2003-2008
30. J.P. Losman (27) 34 2004-2008
31. Vince Young (25) 32 2006-2008
32. Patrick Ramsey (29) 30 2002-2008
33. Sage Rosenfels (30) 29 2002-2008
34. David Garrard (30) 29 2002-2008
35. Kyle Orton (26) 27 2005-2008
36. Damon Huard (35) 26 1998-2008
37. Charlie Frye (27) 25 2005-2008
38. Matt Schaub (27) 25 2004-2008
39. Jason Campbell (27) 23 2006-2008
40. Ken Dorsey (27) 18 2004-2008
41. Trent Edwards (25) 18 2007-2008
42. Tarvaris Jackson (25) 18 2006-2008
43. Ryan Fitzpatrick (26) 17 2005-2008
44. Matt Leinart (25) 17 2006-2008
45. Chris Simms (28) 17 2004-2008
46. Andrew Walter (26) 16 2006-2008
47. Aaron Rodgers (25) 14 2005-2008
48. Matt Cassel (26) 13 2005-2008
49. Bruce Gradkowski (25) 13 2006-2008
50. J.T. O'Sullivan (29) 13 2004-2008
51. Tyler Thigpen (24) 13 2007-2008 kan

I dont know what your getting at. There are some good QB's on the list, and some real shit QB's........

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 09:59 AM
Interesting article. I was most interested in Jay's unacknowledged support to Denvers youth.
Saturday, March 14, 2009

It must have been quite a surprise for Cutler to learn he was just another employee, like you or me, and should act like one. Over the past three years, whenever he didn't comb his hair or wear a tie, someone was quick to point out he held the most high-profile job in Colorado, more prominent than even the governor's.

So which is it? Does he have a job that requires a commitment above and beyond the call, or is he just another working stiff?

True story: Last year, the Rev. Leon Kelly told kids in his Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives program he would have to cancel the summer session for lack of money. Cutler heard about it, wrote a check and the session was restored.

At Christmas, Kelly wanted to do something a little extra for the kids he's trying to keep out of gangs — a party with food and favors. Cutler wrote another check, then showed up to sign autographs. His parents helped set up the tree.

Never said a word or put out a press release either time. In fact, he let teammate Brandon Marshall get the attention for helping Open Door — Marshall gave most of his days off to the program last year — rather than draw attention to himself.

In the wake of the gang-related murder of former Broncos cornerback Darrent Williams, Kelly's was a cause close to the Broncos' hearts. This is what Cutler thought commitment meant. He thought the feeling was mutual. When McDaniels took over, he learned it wasn't. Grow up, he's told now. It's a business. Don't be a baby.

So now he knows. And if he's going, he's ready.



Simply makes too much sense if you ask me Dean.

SPOT ON.

Scarface
03-14-2009, 10:01 AM
War, just curious. How many of those 4,500 yard passers have rings?

I think the better question is how many QBs have led their team to the playoffs with a defense that allows more than 440 pts per game? The answer is not many. Bottom line Cutler is not the problem. Defense is. Too bad our Amateur Hour Front Office is clueless about the whole thing.

weazel
03-14-2009, 10:09 AM
Heres from the book 'FOOTBALL FOR DUMMIES' for all those who need help in understanding what Cutler is:

Edit: In the HISTORY of the NFL, ALL the QBs who have thrown for 4500 yards in a single season, and the years they did it. (Yes, I know Cutler threw for 4473) The stats still stand

1980 Dan Fouts
1981 Dan Fouts

1984 Dan Marino
1986 Dan Marino

1990 Warren Moon
1991 Warren Moon

1994 Drew Bledsoe
2001 Kurt Warner

2002 Rich Gannon
2004 Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Daunte Culpepper(thank randy moss)

2007 Tom Brady

2008 Drew Brees, Kurt Warner and JAY CUTLER.


DOES ANY OF THIS REGISTER WITH YOU WHO THINK CUTLER HASNT DONE ANYTHING??

Jeff George? He broke 4000 yards once, 3000 yards twice, and never broke the 3000 yard mark any other time in a 14 year career. His 4100 yard year came in year 6 of his career.


IF WE TRADE CUTLER -BOWLEN, MCDANIELS AND EVERY OTHER DUMMY WHO PUTS THEIR HAND TO IT ARE THE DUMBEST FRONT OFFICE IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME, BECAUSE THESE DUMMIES ARE GOING TO DO IT AFTER THEY KNEW HE THREW FOR 4500 YARDS IN A SINGLE SEASON................



By the way............Manning has passed for over 4400 yards twice in his career. First time he broke 4473.......Cutlers mark...........was YEAR SEVEN. That was with Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison in their prime.



You dont trade guys like this for MATT CASSELLS.


Far as Im concerned, Cutler hasnt done a single thing but play hard here, and be cocky confident. Has he done anything to warrant trading him away??? Not a damn thing.

I only see two superbowl winners there though. It's great that he threw for 4500, but that means its a one dimensional team and usually wont win the big games.

McDaniels screwed up by letting it get out, pure and simple. But at the same time, Cutler has to realize that names get thrown out for trade offers all the time.

Both sides are being petty, I just hope they get it resolved.

nthngd2say
03-14-2009, 10:16 AM
My point is that the mentality that single season statistics define a player [at least when those stats are not reproduced over multiple seasons] does not work for me as it does not tell the whole picture and implies things should be left as is. While the Defense definitely was the major reason for the poor finish, it appears that many think that the offense was outstanding simply because Cutler threw for nearly 4500 yards and the Ofeense was ranked #2 Overall. I argue that Cutler and the offense need to improve in several keys areas. Here's some interesting facts to consider that I have not seen posted:

Top Overall offenses for 2008:
Saints - missed playoffs
Broncos - missed playoffs 6333 total yardsa 395.8/game
Houston - missed playoffs
Cardinals - SuperBowl
Patriots - missed playoffs
Falcons - lost wild card playoff game
Giants - lost divisional playoff game
Packers - missed playoffs
Eagles - NFC championship
Panthers - lost wild card playoff game
Chargers - lost divisional playoff game

Denver's NFL Offensive rankings 2008: [offensive juggernaut who scored 10 pts at home against the 27th ranked Raiders D and choked against Buffalo at home]
Total Plays - 8th 1019
Time of Possession - 25th 28:44/game
Passing - 3rd 4471 279.4/game
Rushing - 12th 1862 116.4/game
Points per game - 16th 370 23.1/game
Red zone scoring - 16th [55 possessions 30 TD or just over 50% of the time they scored a TD]
Give-aways - tied 7th [had 30 of which 21 were Cutler's]
-->Our defensive opponents averaged 21st in total yards allowed, 20th in rushing yards allowed, 20th in passing yards allowed and 17th in points allowed. Not exactly overwhelming Defensive opponents.

QB's with over 4000 yds passing:
2008 [6] - Brees, Warner, Cutler, Rodgers, Rivers, Manning
2007 [7] - Brady, Brees, Romo, Farve, Palmer, Kitna, Manning
2006 [5] - Brees, Manning, Bulger, Kitna, Palmer
2005 [2] - Brady, T.Green
2004 [5] - Culpepper, T.Green, Manning, Plummer, Farve
2003 [2] - Manning, T.Green
2002 [4] - Gannon, Bledsoe, Manning, K.Collins
Are all of these QB great? No. Did several had a good season or two? I still think Cutler could be great but I also say that one season of over 4400 yards does not make him amazing.

Cutler's 2008 NFL rankings:
Completion % - 14th
Total yards - 3rd
TD - 7th
INT - 2nd [most]
Times sacked - 2nd [fewest]
Rating - 16th

2008 Stats:
Player GM Comp Att % Yds Per Com TD Long INT Rat RZone Comp %
Cutler 16 384 616 62.3 4526 7.3 25 93 18 86.0
Rivers 16 312 478 65.3 4009 8.4 34 67 11 105.5
Rodgers 16 341 536 63.6 4038 7.5 28 71 13 93.8
*Both Phyllis and Rodgers have better critical stats that Cutler: threw fewer passes but had more TD and less INT, better completion %, and
better Rating.

Is Rodgers or Rivers better than Cutler? We would all debate that isn;'t so right? Based on stats alone, fans of any of these QBs could debate who
is the best. Would any of us say Rivers or Rodgers is a great QB? My point agian is that one season of over 4400 yards does not mean Cutler is great alone. Otherwise several other QB on the list above would be and some could argue that either Phyllis or Rodgers is better than Cutler based on other stats many would consider more important such as TDs, fewer INT, better rating, etc. I would take Cutler over either but based on stats alone an argument could be made otherwise.

nthngd2say
03-14-2009, 10:19 AM
The great total yardage stats aside, the offenses overall numbers and many of Cutler's show there are several areas that could really be improved upon.

That said, I still would love to see Cutler stay. I think that annointing him a great QB based solely on 1 season of nearly 4500 yards isn't accurate.

claymore
03-14-2009, 10:25 AM
The great total yardage stats aside, the offenses overall numbers and many of Cutler's show there are several areas that could really be improved upon.

That said, I still would love to see Cutler stay. I think that annointing him a great QB based solely on 1 season of nearly 4500 yards isn't accurate.

No doubt Cutler needs to improve. I think he has made very good progress in his first 2.5 years. IMO He has shown unbelievable potential. If McDaniels as good as he is supposed to be then Cutler should put up ridiculous numbers the next couple of years.

nthngd2say
03-14-2009, 10:28 AM
No doubt Cutler needs to improve. I think he has made very good progress in his first 2.5 years. IMO He has shown unbelievable potential. If McDaniels as good as he is supposed to be then Cutler should put up ridiculous numbers the next couple of years.

We'll see how good McDaniels is... I just hope they can put this drama behind them because I agree that Cutler in that offense should put up significantly better numbers than Cassel did. I also agree that Cutler is a very promising young QB who just needs to cut down on the mental mistakes.

Den21vsBal19
03-14-2009, 10:37 AM
Interesting article. I was most interested in Jay's unacknowledged support to Denvers youth.
I'm not going to denegrate any of that, it is good article, & great that he takes a personal interest in the community, largely without blowing his own horn..............

But with regards to the post I was replying to, if correct, it's not a very smart move to blow-off the guy who signs your pay checks, and no amount of good works can make up for that, if true.........

TXBRONC
03-14-2009, 11:00 AM
War, just curious. How many of those 4,500 yard passers have rings?


Joe just how many quarterbacks whose defenses gave up 400 plus points have one a Super Bowl or for that matter had even .500 record or better? Just curious.

broncosinindy
03-14-2009, 11:28 AM
Heres from the book 'FOOTBALL FOR DUMMIES' for all those who need help in understanding what Cutler is:

Edit: In the HISTORY of the NFL, ALL the QBs who have thrown for 4500 yards in a single season, and the years they did it. (Yes, I know Cutler threw for 4473) The stats still stand

1980 Dan Fouts
Never Won a super bowl.
1981 Dan Fouts

1984 Dan Marino
Never Won a super bowl
1986 Dan Marino

1990 Warren Moon
Never Won a super bowl
1991 Warren Moon

1994 Drew Bledsoe
Never Won a super bowl
2001 Kurt Warner

2002 Rich Gannon
Never Won a super bowl
2004 Peyton Manning,Won one SB Trent Green, Daunte Culpepper
Never Won a super bowl(thank randy moss)

2007 Tom Brady

2008 Drew Brees
Never Won a super bowl, Kurt Warner and JAY CUTLER.
Never Won a super bowl


DOES ANY OF THIS REGISTER WITH YOU WHO THINK CUTLER HASNT DONE ANYTHING??

Jeff George? He broke 4000 yards once, 3000 yards twice, and never broke the 3000 yard mark any other time in a 14 year career. His 4100 yard year came in year 6 of his career.


IF WE TRADE CUTLER -BOWLEN, MCDANIELS AND EVERY OTHER DUMMY WHO PUTS THEIR HAND TO IT ARE THE DUMBEST FRONT OFFICE IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME, BECAUSE THESE DUMMIES ARE GOING TO DO IT AFTER THEY KNEW HE THREW FOR 4500 YARDS IN A SINGLE SEASON................



By the way............Manning has passed for over 4400 yards twice in his career. First time he broke 4473.......Cutlers mark...........was YEAR SEVEN. That was with Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison in their prime.



You dont trade guys like this for MATT CASSELLS.


Far as Im concerned, Cutler hasnt done a single thing but play hard here, and be cocky confident. Has he done anything to warrant trading him away??? Not a damn thing.Joe Kitna, threw for 4206 in 06.Never won a superbowl John Elway had one year at 4030 in 93 NOT THE YEAR HE WON IT THOUGH and Joe Montana never threw for 4000 yards Neither Did Troy Aikman, But still won superbowls. throwing for over 4000 yards or hell even 4500 yards does not make him a winning superbowl QB
Jay Cutler was good in shannys offense. Mark my words. if jay trys to play Gunslinger o in McD offense. were gonna have issues. Remember Cassell and Brady are very high percent low risk passers.

In the end my point is. 4000, 4500 yards is a good INDIVIDUAL stat. but it doesnt always mean superbowls

broncosinindy
03-14-2009, 11:42 AM
Interesting article. I was most interested in Jay's unacknowledged support to Denvers youth.Saturday, March 14, 2009


It must have been quite a surprise for Cutler to learn he was just another employee, like you or me, and should act like one. Over the past three years, whenever he didn't comb his hair or wear a tie, someone was quick to point out he held the most high-profile job in Colorado, more prominent than even the governor's.

So which is it? Does he have a job that requires a commitment above and beyond the call, or is he just another working stiff?

True story: Last year, the Rev. Leon Kelly told kids in his Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives program he would have to cancel the summer session for lack of money. Cutler heard about it, wrote a check and the session was restored.

At Christmas, Kelly wanted to do something a little extra for the kids he's trying to keep out of gangs — a party with food and favors. Cutler wrote another check, then showed up to sign autographs. His parents helped set up the tree.

Never said a word or put out a press release either time. In fact, he let teammate Brandon Marshall get the attention for helping Open Door — Marshall gave most of his days off to the program last year — rather than draw attention to himself.

In the wake of the gang-related murder of former Broncos cornerback Darrent Williams, Kelly's was a cause close to the Broncos' hearts. This is what Cutler thought commitment meant. He thought the feeling was mutual. When McDaniels took over, he learned it wasn't. Grow up, he's told now. It's a business. Don't be a baby.

So now he knows. And if he's going, he's ready.

Dave Krieger: 303-954-5297 or dkrieger@denverpost.com

I am on Jay's side in most of this but he really does need to realize this is a team sport. And if he was a team player he wouldnt have his agent spreading discontent through out the media. Guess who Bus Cooke also represents. BRETT FARVE. And what a drama queen situation his career has turned out to be. So i think much blame should be pinned on the jackass buss cooke.


Sure he donated to the kids great thing. HOw much of it was movtivated for tax purposes. and if he was such a good guy why doesnt he play for a marginal pay check say 100.000 dollars and give the rest to charity.

Of course he didnt have to say anything he knew his good deed would be told by someone other than himself so not to look like hey look what i did. He let someone else tell.

Its called a slowplay. guess you dont play poker much

It's a win win for jay. He donates he knows he will get the pub as a good guy. and if he doesnt it's still not gonna take a single penny away from him

bullis26
03-14-2009, 12:35 PM
wow cutler has individual stats, that doesnt mean anything for a team if there losing, how many ints did cutler throw...... i like cutler and everything but one player does not make the team some people need to realize that

broncosinindy
03-14-2009, 12:55 PM
wow cutler has individual stats, that doesnt mean anything for a team if there losing, how many ints did cutler throw...... i like cutler and everything but one player does not make the team some people need to realize that


So let me get this straight you are throwing cutler under the bus for not being a team player. And in the other thread you admit Vernon Davis to being a cancer and only think about what he could do with a QB. and it be alright. please help me out with your line of thinking here. Really i am not trying to slam you i am trying to understand.

bullis26
03-14-2009, 01:05 PM
So let me get this straight you are throwing cutler under the bus for not being a team player. And in the other thread you admit Vernon Davis to being a cancer and only think about what he could do with a QB. and it be alright. please help me out with your line of thinking here. Really i am not trying to slam you i am trying to understand.

I am saying vernon is a cancer, but cancer players can still be good players.... i am not backing Vernon by anymeans i just think he could be a good player thats all im saying..... and cutler is being a little baby, he blew this thing out of proportion and even if mcdaniels did try to trade him, The NFL is a business nobody is untradeable, cutler needs to learn that....but Stats mean nothing to a team if there losing, look at Calvin Johnson he put up some pretty good stats, but did that help the lions win a game?

broncosinindy
03-14-2009, 01:16 PM
I am saying vernon is a cancer, but cancer players can still be good players.... i am not backing Vernon by anymeans i just think he could be a good player thats all im saying..... and cutler is being a little baby, he blew this thing out of proportion and even if mcdaniels did try to trade him, The NFL is a business nobody is untradeable, cutler needs to learn that....but Stats mean nothing to a team if there losing, look at Calvin Johnson he put up some pretty good stats, but did that help the lions win a game?

Terrell Owens almost single handedly blew up dallas last year. Although PacMan i think finished it off.

Last year the New York Jets were a playoff team with chad pennigton. Brett Farve helped nuke them last year. JMO though.

Cancerous players is never a good thing for a team sport.

And yes i feel Jay is starting to show signs of being a caner. Although i think his Agent is not helping this one bit.

bullis26
03-14-2009, 01:23 PM
Terrell Owens almost single handedly blew up dallas last year. Although PacMan i think finished it off.

Last year the New York Jets were a playoff team with chad pennigton. Brett Farve helped nuke them last year. JMO though.

Cancerous players is never a good thing for a team sport.

And yes i feel Jay is starting to show signs of being a caner. Although i think his Agent is not helping this one bit.

Terrell owens is still a good football player, put him on team like the ravens or somebody with leaders he'd be fine but nobody would say anything to him in San Fran, im suprised dawkins didnt in PHilly, and the cowboys have the worst locker room in the NFL, cancer players are bad for teams with bad lockerrooms but they can still be a good team.... and favre played great for the jets until they played the broncos, then he wore down, remeber the shoot out against AZ he threw SIX touchdowns, favre helped that team but he was out of shape because he missed most of the offseason, and that hurt his team down the stretch but after the jets beat the titans, people were talking about the jets being the team to beat

EMB6903
03-14-2009, 02:18 PM
TO was with one of the best leaders in football when at Philly, that obviously didnt help.

bullis26
03-14-2009, 02:45 PM
TO was with one of the best leaders in football when at Philly, that obviously didnt help.

i dont know about best leaders, but yes he was a leader until they started losing.... he's always great when winning but when his team starts losing things get ugly

EMB6903
03-14-2009, 02:51 PM
Brian Dawkins is one of the best leaders in the game... even when the team isnt performing well

if he couldnt put TO in check, who can?

bullis26
03-14-2009, 02:52 PM
Brian Dawkins is one of the best leaders in the game... even when the team isnt performing well

if he couldnt put TO in check, who can?

i thought you were talking about T.O. not dawkins.... and i garuntee Ray Lewis could, if ray couldnt then nobody would be able to

broncosinindy
03-14-2009, 04:05 PM
Terrell owens is still a good football player, put him on team like the ravens or somebody with leaders he'd be fine but nobody would say anything to him in San Fran, im suprised dawkins didnt in PHilly, and the cowboys have the worst locker room in the NFL, cancer players are bad for teams with bad lockerrooms but they can still be a good team.... and favre played great for the jets until they played the broncos, then he wore down, remeber the shoot out against AZ he threw SIX touchdowns, favre helped that team but he was out of shape because he missed most of the offseason, and that hurt his team down the stretch but after the jets beat the titans, people were talking about the jets being the team to beat
I do not deny that TO is a good football player. But when you casue dissention in the ranks that it ruins the team within. One piece of rotting fruit can ruin a whole bushel. Remember TO going to his teammates and having meetings. to talk about the coach or a player. Not only is it childish but i think that is one of the main reasons why dallas didnt go to the playoffs.

If you dont understand the cause and affect of this i cannot help you.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 04:21 PM
Four.


Twelve superbowl appearances between them.

And five are, or will be HOFers



Fouts, Marino, Manning, Brady, and Moon.

Warner is on the bubble.

You know this.....
Are you saying this discounts what they did and you dont recognize how good these guys are?



sorry I missed who the four were that had rings during those 4500 passing seasons were.. could you repeat them???? ..

Dean
03-14-2009, 06:46 PM
Does anyone expect a ring when playing with (according to Football outsiders) one of the worst defenses of all time? Would the Broncos have been 8-8 or better without Jay?

fcspikeit
03-14-2009, 07:44 PM
I am saying vernon is a cancer, but cancer players can still be good players.... i am not backing Vernon by anymeans i just think he could be a good player thats all im saying..... and cutler is being a little baby, he blew this thing out of proportion and even if mcdaniels did try to trade him, The NFL is a business nobody is untradeable, cutler needs to learn that....but Stats mean nothing to a team if there losing, look at Calvin Johnson he put up some pretty good stats, but did that help the lions win a game?

So what, CJ should be put on the same level as the rest of the garbage in Detroit because they didn't win a game?

Much like with Cutler, the Lions were bad despite how well CJ played.. If they want to turn their team around, the will sure as hell keep CJ around. You don't deemed the good players expendable just because they play for a lousy team :rolleyes:

fcspikeit
03-14-2009, 07:55 PM
sorry I missed who the four were that had rings during those 4500 passing seasons were.. could you repeat them???? ..

You seem to be overlooking the point. That is one hell of a list of QB's!!

You can put up the list of Superbowl winning QB's if you want. Then you can explain why you would rather have, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypin, Jeff Hostetler, over anyone on that list excluding Cutler because he is the subject of the debate and the importance of him being on the list is the point.

Lonestar
03-14-2009, 09:04 PM
You seem to be overlooking the point. That is one hell of a list of QB's!!

You can put up the list of Superbowl winning QB's if you want. Then you can explain why you would rather have, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypin, Jeff Hostetler, over anyone on that list excluding Cutler because he is the subject of the debate and the importance of him being on the list is the point.


I guess it is the difference in having a Ferrari or a Honda to drive to work..

If the Honda will get you there just as well other than ego why would you want a Ferrari?

Bought my wife a convertible several years ago was looking at the mustang.. The 4 cylinder or v-6 would have been fine until I test drove a GT and heard the exhaust ego won out and cost me about 6k more for it..

Still I drive the civic around town.. 108k on it 21K on the GT..

That is called being prudent with the available funds for my transportation budget..


Hope that makes sense..

WARHORSE
03-14-2009, 09:47 PM
I guess it is the difference in having a Ferrari or a Honda to drive to work..

If the Honda will get you there just as well other than ego why would you want a Ferrari?

Bought my wife a convertible several years ago was looking at the mustang.. The 4 cylinder or v-6 would have been fine until I test drove a GT and heard the exhaust ego won out and cost me about 6k more for it..

Still I drive the civic around town.. 108k on it 21K on the GT..

That is called being prudent with the available funds for my transportation budget..


Hope that makes sense..


Your analogies are amazing.

So youre saying that since only Warner won the superbowl during the same season he threw for 4500........you would trade away one of those QBs in year three of his career?


So youre saying, that if Marino were in year three of his career, you would trade him for some draft picks and players to build your team?


Tom Brady should be traded away cause Cassell could run the offense and they could get the 1st, the 20th and then some in the draft for the Patriots? That would make the TEAM better right?

Afterall, Brady only went undefeated a 16 game season only to lose the superbowl.


Once again.......the point flew far above your head.

FAR............above..........................yer head.

silkamilkamonico
03-14-2009, 09:48 PM
Your analogies are amazing.

So youre saying that since only Warner won the superbowl during the same season he threw for 4500........you would trade away one of those QBs in year three of his career?


So youre saying, that if Marino were in year three of his career, you would trade him for some draft picks and players to build your team?


Tom Brady should be traded away cause Cassell could run the offense and they could get the 1st, the 20th and then some in the draft for the Patriots? That would make the TEAM better right?

Afterall, Brady only went undefeated a 16 game season only to lose the superbowl.


Once again.......the point flew far above your head.

FAR............above..........................yer head.

I bet he understands the difference between Dallas, and San Antonio though!

:laugh:

Den21vsBal19
03-14-2009, 10:02 PM
Warner threw for 4,353 yards the year St.Louis won the Super Bowl...........

Two years later he threw for 4,830 yards before losing in the Super Bowl..........

bullis26
03-14-2009, 11:10 PM
I do not deny that TO is a good football player. But when you casue dissention in the ranks that it ruins the team within. One piece of rotting fruit can ruin a whole bushel. Remember TO going to his teammates and having meetings. to talk about the coach or a player. Not only is it childish but i think that is one of the main reasons why dallas didnt go to the playoffs.

If you dont understand the cause and affect of this i cannot help you.

READ WHAT I SAID!!!!!! i said he is a cancer, he hurt his team.... im saying just because he is a cancer and hurts his team doesnt mean he also doesnt help them! when there winning he's contributing and happy, and when there losing he ussually doesnt touch the ball much, and is when he starts to hurt his team! read what i say! before you comment on what i say!

bullis26
03-14-2009, 11:12 PM
i never said calvin is garbage, but isnt football a team sport? Calvin Johnson is a LOSER, he's won few games in his short NFL career, He's a great player on a losing team, but i'd rather have a winning team with average players, than a losing team with a great player.... kevin smith was also a bright spot on that offense

Shazam!
03-15-2009, 12:11 AM
I don't want Cutler dealt now, as the only best option right now is starting from scratch with Stafford. I won't say 'He sucks' either but it will set Denver back at QB for at least a year. For all his talents and the solid future I think Cutler can have in Denver and in the NFL as an elite QB, I wish this fixes itself and stays.

I will make three points-

1- Jay did his share of ?!@#ing this mess up too. McD isn't entirely at fault here. He carries plenty of blame, but he isn't the sole villain. Jay Cutler is not John Elway. Period. Trades and trade talks go down year after year. He needs to relax. This is the NFL. This is a business. He's supposed to act like a leader of the team. So, stand up Jay.

2- Jay Cutler is NOT the best athlete on the Broncos. Period. That is Champ. Even though he is aging and the mileage piling, he's the only player on Denver's roster that is the best in the league at their position. So, please stop saying he's their best player because he is not.

3- Of course hindsight is 20/20, but it is arguable and likely true that if the Cassell/Cutler deal did go down in the first place, Denver would be better off. In fact, theoretically they'd be immensely improved. Three 1st Round picks and they wouldn't have to spend one on a QB. With Cassel who knows the McSystem, there will be no learning curve and the Offense would be ready in Week 1. The Broncos as a team would've been immediately better in 2009 and beyond. I know many would say 'Cassell was nobody,' but who was Tom Brady before Drew Bledsoe went down?

Here's to this ?!@# getting resolved and a fresh beginning Monday. :beer:

WARHORSE
03-15-2009, 04:23 AM
I bet he understands the difference between Dallas, and San Antonio though!

:laugh:


Yeah, whats that? Two tatoos on a border whore?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

WARHORSE
03-15-2009, 04:25 AM
I don't want Cutler dealt now, as the only best option right now is starting from scratch with Stafford. I won't say 'He sucks' either but it will set Denver back at QB for at least a year. For all his talents and the solid future I think Cutler can have in Denver and in the NFL as an elite QB, I wish this fixes itself and stays.

I will make three points-

1- Jay did his share of ?!@#ing this mess up too. McD isn't entirely at fault here. He carries plenty of blame, but he isn't the sole villain. Jay Cutler is not John Elway. Period. Trades and trade talks go down year after year. He needs to relax. This is the NFL. This is a business. He's supposed to act like a leader of the team. So, stand up Jay.

2- Jay Cutler is NOT the best athlete on the Broncos. Period. That is Champ. Even though he is aging and the mileage piling, he's the only player on Denver's roster that is the best in the league at their position. So, please stop saying he's their best player because he is not.

3- Of course hindsight is 20/20, but it is arguable and likely true that if the Cassell/Cutler deal did go down in the first place, Denver would be better off. In fact, theoretically they'd be immensely improved. Three 1st Round picks and they wouldn't have to spend one on a QB. With Cassel who knows the McSystem, there will be no learning curve and the Offense would be ready in Week 1. The Broncos as a team would've been immediately better in 2009 and beyond. I know many would say 'Cassell was nobody,' but who was Tom Brady before Drew Bledsoe went down?

Here's to this ?!@# getting resolved and a fresh beginning Monday. :beer:


McDaniels will lie straight to your face.............only thing I can see Cutler doing is grittin it out for his teamates...............or making them trade him.

broncosinindy
03-15-2009, 08:43 AM
READ WHAT I SAID!!!!!! i said he is a cancer, he hurt his team.... im saying just because he is a cancer and hurts his team doesnt mean he also doesnt help them! when there winning he's contributing and happy, and when there losing he ussually doesnt touch the ball much, and is when he starts to hurt his team! read what i say! before you comment on what i say!

Ok you can stop yelling at any moment now...

You can never make someone who is a malcontent happy. He will always find something wrong. You can probably shut him up for a moment or two but the situation will come again where he is unhappy.

AndyUKBronco
03-15-2009, 09:18 AM
Cutler can throw for all the yardage he wants. He is still, what, 17-20 as a starter?

Not much point racking up 300+ yards a game if you're not putting 30+ points on the board every weekend.

Bye bye Jay. Enjoy yourself in Detroit.

bullis26
03-15-2009, 10:36 AM
Ok you can stop yelling at any moment now...

You can never make someone who is a malcontent happy. He will always find something wrong. You can probably shut him up for a moment or two but the situation will come again where he is unhappy.

well it got really annoying when you were quoting me saying to explain and i did that 3 times already, and you couldnt understand it