Tom Brady clutch like Montana??

[DenBronx]

Reallllllly???


He will go down as a 3 time SB winner...but it ends there.


Chow says....."So long gay boys!!!"

Pshhh psshhhh pshhhhh

[Poet]

He's never won a Super Bowl as an elite passer. He's currently 0-2 when they need a game winning TD in the Super Bowl. Did he play a good game? Yes. Is he one of the best passing QB's ever? Yes. Is he a first ballot HoF QB? Yes. Is he actually what a lot of his supporters say he is?


No.

[MNPatsFan]

He's never won a Super Bowl as an elite passer. He's currently 0-2 when they need a game winning TD in the Super Bowl. Did he play a good game? Yes. Is he one of the best passing QB's ever? Yes. Is he a first ballot HoF QB? Yes. Is he actually what a lot of his supporters say he is?


No.King, you are being disingenuous and you know it. In the two Super Bowls that Brady has lost, he only had 35 seconds and 57 seconds in which to "lead the Patriots to a game winning touchdown". Neither Montana nor Elway EVER led their team to a Super Bowl winning TD when starting with less then 3:20 left in game, let alone under a minute. Therefore, under your criteria and analysis, neither Montana nor Elway would be elite either.;)

[CoachChaz]

In Brady's defense...he did have a few catchable balls dropped that could have helped/sealed a victory

[MNPatsFan]

In Brady's defense...he did have a few catchable balls dropped that could have helped/sealed a victoryYes, he did, but I didn't want to say anything about that because "I am biased" and because they win as a team and lose as a team. I saw where Wes Welker is taking his drop extremely hard.

[CoachChaz]

Yes, he did, but I didn't want to say anything about that because "I am biased" and because they win as a team and lose as a team. I saw where Wes Welker is taking his drop extremely hard.

I hate Brady and the Pats as much as the next Bronco fan, but I still call it like I see it.

I was shocked to see Welker and Hernandez drop such easy passes. There were a few that I thought Branch should have had as well. Not easy ones, but still catchable.

I'm happy they were dropped though

[BigDaddyBronco]

The drops weren't as big of a deal as getting sacked and having to use that last time out. The Giants DLine stepped up big in the 4th quarter.

[slim]

Perception is funny. If Tebow had made some of those throws we would be hearing how he isn't capable of making NFL throws. But since it's Brady, the WR get the blame.

On the pass to Welker, I would say they both deserve blame. It was a poor throw that should have been caught.

[Thnikkaman]

Brady is a product of his system. He is great in the pocket if his receivers get off the line of scrimmage perfectly. The Giants showed once again that if you get those receivers off their rhythm, Brady doesn't know what to do. I think every single one of Brady's linemen deserves a HoF nomination, as does Wes Welker, but not Brady.

I will admit that I am biased against Tom Brady, and he is probably a little better than I make him out to be, but he isn't HoF deserving. He will get in the Hall on the first ballot, but it will just be more evidence on how the NFL HoF is a farce.

[TXBRONC]

Brady isn't the same quarterback he was five years ago. What is he 34 years old? The Patriots have great possession receivers in Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez but what do they have after that? Add to that a mediocre running game and a suspect defense and this is what you come up with. If Belicheck had improved those areas maybe this game ends with a different result. What does Belicheck do? He goes out and hires a coach who could only give him an advantage in one game.

[BroncoNut]

I think Tom could be clutch like marino if he believes in himself and puts his mind to it

[Ravage!!!]

I think the ONLY thing I saw Brady miss last night was the one to Welker, and even that pass was still catchable (although I do NOT blame that on Welker, nor do I think it was a good pass).

If that one ball could have been caught (although woudl have been a GREAT catch).... this wouldn't even be talked about.

Brady is just as good as Montana, and I think the "perception" (using King's words) of Montana is greater than the reality...as well.

I'm THRILLED the Patriots lost. But I personally do not think it tarnishes Brady's legacy in the least.

[Northman]

I will admit that I am biased against Tom Brady,

Should of just stopped there. :lol:

[Northman]

Brady is fine and is Elite. He got beat by another Elite Qb with a much better team around him.

[slim]

Brady is fine and is Elite. He got beat by another Elite Qb with a much better team around him.

Brady is elite, no question about it.

Eli is not, IMO. I think Eli is much closer to being a game manager than he is to being an elite QB.

[Ravage!!!]

I think Eli continues to show that he is MUCH more than a game manager. He's smart, decisive, and accurate. He doesn't rattle, he doesn't panic, and is always top notch in 3rd downs and 4th quarter.

[weazel]

I blame the O-Line

[Northman]

Brady is elite, no question about it.

Eli is not, IMO. I think Eli is much closer to being a game manager than he is to being an elite QB.

I used to think the same thing until this year.

[Thnikkaman]

Should of just stopped there. :lol:

Opinions are like ******** North. I have a hard time rooting for any player out of Michigan.

That being said, I bet 70% of the quarterbacks that started a game in the NFL in 2012 would be successful in Billachick's offense. Brady is considered elite because he is surrounded by elite play makers.

[Northman]

Opinions are like ******** North. I have a hard time rooting for any player out of Michigan.

That being said, I bet 70% of the quarterbacks that started a game in the NFL in 2012 would be successful in Billachick's offense. Brady is considered elite because he is surrounded by elite play makers.

Certainly your opinion, i was just pointing out that you have a massive bias so i apologize if i cant take what you said as being objective on said subject. ;)

[BroncoNut]

tink and North, why don't you guys just cool it for a bit

[Thnikkaman]

Certainly your opinion, i was just pointing out that you have a massive bias so i apologize if i cant take what you said as being objective on said subject. ;)

I'd also be more reasonable if I wasn't on day 5 of this godawful cold. I got some nasal spray over lunch and I no longer feel like I've got 40psi in my sinuses.

[Poet]

King, you are being disingenuous and you know it. In the two Super Bowls that Brady has lost, he only had 35 seconds and 57 seconds in which to "lead the Patriots to a game winning touchdown". Neither Montana nor Elway EVER led their team to a Super Bowl winning TD when starting with less then 3:20 left in game, let alone under a minute. Therefore, under your criteria and analysis, neither Montana nor Elway would be elite either.;)

Not at all. The main reason why Brady was so celebrated was because he was so clutch. He gets the ball back in the fourth and he's supposed to win. For years and years when he was just a good passer and not a great one that was why he was so highly touted.

Brady played a good game. Also, don't put words in my mouth, because that's not my criteria. I think judging a quarterback by Super Bowl wins is retarded. The "is Eli better then Peyton" conversations are sparking up, and those two QB's are not even close.

The fact remains that Brady has not won a SB as an elite passer. He's won the SB's as a good QB on a strong defensive team, but he wasn't the driving force of the team. He's now 0-2 in his last two SB's when you need a touchdown he can't get you one.

But he can get you that field goal.

[FanInAZ]

I was shocked to see Welker and Hernandez drop such easy passes. There were a few that I thought Branch should have had as well.

Dude, you stole my line. The only thing left for me to remind everyone that these 3 drops were consecutive.

[FanInAZ]

The drops weren't as big of a deal as getting sacked and having to use that last time out. The Giants DLine stepped up big in the 4th quarter.

I credit the Giants’ DBs for covering the Patriots WRs long enough for the Giants’ elite DL to get that sack. Did Brady hold on to the ball longer then he should of? Maybe if you’re talking about it happening in the 1st 3½ quarters. However, with less than a minute in the game, he had no choice by to try and make something happen & hope for the best. I have no doubt that every QB in the HoF, including Elway, would have gotten sacked by the Giants elite pass rush in that situation.

[FanInAZ]

Not at all. The main reason why Brady was so celebrated was because he was so clutch. He gets the ball back in the fourth and he's supposed to win. For years and years when he was just a good passer and not a great one that was why he was so highly touted.

Brady played a good game. Also, don't put words in my mouth, because that's not my criteria. I think judging a quarterback by Super Bowl wins is retarded. The "is Eli better then Peyton" conversations are sparking up, and those two QB's are not even close.

The fact remains that Brady has not won a SB as an elite passer. He's won the SB's as a good QB on a strong defensive team, but he wasn't the driving force of the team. He's now 0-2 in his last two SB's when you need a touchdown he can't get you one.

But he can get you that field goal.

Let me see if I can summarize what you said in 1 sentence: FOOTBALL IS A TEAM SPORT! Teams that understand that win SB, like the Patriots used to do & the Giants still do. Teams that don't understand that don't win SBs.

[Northman]

Let me see if I can summarize what you said in 1 sentence: FOOTBALL IS A TEAM SPORT! Teams that understand that win SB, like the Patriots used to do & the Giants still do. Teams that don't understand that don't win SBs.

Yeeeeep.

[TXBRONC]

I'd also be more reasonable if I wasn't on day 5 of this godawful cold. I got some nasal spray over lunch and I no longer feel like I've got 40psi in my sinuses.

I feel for ya Thnik. Having a cold for that long sucks. I've had a mild cold for the last three or four days.

[Ravage!!!]

Opinions are like ******** North. I have a hard time rooting for any player out of Michigan.

That being said, I bet 70% of the quarterbacks that started a game in the NFL in 2012 would be successful in Billachick's offense. Brady is considered elite because he is surrounded by elite play makers.

wait... like whom?

[tomjonesrocks]

Brady is elite, but I think he's fallen out of the conversation as GOAT with these losses. That team already has asterisks on their SB wins...

[Devilspawn]

I think Eli continues to show that he is MUCH more than a game manager. He's smart, decisive, and accurate. He doesn't rattle, he doesn't panic, and is always top notch in 3rd downs and 4th quarter.
His problem was he used to throw high. I don't seem him doing it as much nowadays. What could help him move into all time great status years from now is that he has a fine trio of receivers under the age of 26.

I remember the cautious excitement here when Eli was named starter. Never in my wildest did I think it would amount to this.

[MOtorboat]

Perception is funny. If Tebow had made some of those throws we would be hearing how he isn't capable of making NFL throws. But since it's Brady, the WR get the blame.

On the pass to Welker, I would say they both deserve blame. It was a poor throw that should have been caught.

Let me know when Tebow connects on 14 straight passes.

[Ravage!!!]

I just don't think this takes away from Tom. Elway was the only OTHER QB to take his team to 5 SUper Bowl trips. Now Elway shares that with Brady. Elway lost early, and won two late. Brady won early, and lost two late. How does that take away from him being in the conversation of GOAT, or take away from his legacy at all? He STILL took a team that is lacking any WRs and any real RBs, to the Super Bowl.

To me, he's not losing it or playing worse. I think he's playing as well as he ever has. This all coming from a guy that absolutely hated Brady early in his career (although I've found that since he's gotten married, he's settled down his attitude).

I personally don't see how taking your team TO the SUper Bowl for the 5th time, somehow takes AWAY from how you are viewed as a player :confused:

[Thnikkaman]

wait... like whom?

These quarterbacks would be successful plugged into New England's offence, and I'm qualifying successful by winning one home game in the playoffs. Some of these are no brainers:

Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Fitzpatrick
Jay Cutler
Andy Dalton
Brady Quinn (I know he's not a starting quarterback, but I think he would be successful with the hoodie's staff)
Romo
Stafford
Matt Flynn
Aaron Rogers
Peyton Manning (If he comes back)
Shaub
Christian Ponder
Orton (Yes, I think Orton could win a playoff game with New England)
Drew Breese
Eli Manning
Mark Sanchez
Carson Palmer
Phillip Rivers
Alex Smith


That may be less than 70%, but that's quite a list. I didn't include Newton, or Vick because New England's offense is built for a qb that can take a 3 step drop and throw it to a set target quickly. Brady needs 3 passers he can trust to run their route accurately, and catch the ball. Not having Gronk @100% last night really hurt the Patriots. I also believe that the offense sputtered last night because 2 of those 3 that Brady needs didn't have their head in the game.

Again, I'm not saying Brady is bad, but for me, Rothlesburger, Eli Manning, Jay Cutler (as much as it panes me to say it), and Aaron Rogers are all better than Brady. And when you talk all time, Brady doesn't sniff my top ten.

[Medford Bronco]

In Brady's defense...he did have a few catchable balls dropped that could have helped/sealed a victory

Hello Wes Welker.

[Ravage!!!]

Hello Wes Welker.

That was just as much as an off pass as it was a "non-catch." No way anyone can blame Welker for dropping that ball.

[Medford Bronco]

I find it laughable for all those that kill Brady. He is one of the all time greats. I would take him in a second. We have a guy that throws ground balls on open out routes.

Their defense still did not make a play and is the achillies heel. Also they give up on the run way too early.

So he is not Montana. Who is? Even Elway is not Montana either.

just my humble opinion. Gronk being hurt did him no favors. That team overachieved big time. They are a 10-6 talented type team and were almost champs. Nothing to be ashamed of. We were lucky to win one playoff game. I would love to be them.

They have some holes but went about as far as you can go.

[Medford Bronco]

That was just as much as an off pass as it was a "non-catch." No way anyone can blame Welker for dropping that ball.

I respect you Ravage but I disagree. Welker makes that play 95 off 100 times. Big time WR make that play. Brady had to drop it in there and he did.

[Medford Bronco]

Let me know when Tebow connects on 14 straight passes.

maybe if he uses Brady playing Madden 2012:lol:

[Thnikkaman]

I find it laughable for all those that kill Brady. He is one of the all time greats. I would take him in a second. We have a guy that throws ground balls on open out routes.

Their defense still did not make a play and is the achillies heel. Also they give up on the run way too early.

So he is not Montana. Who is? Even Elway is not Montana either.

just my humble opinion. Gronk being hurt did him no favors. That team overachieved big time. They are a 10-6 talented type team and were almost champs. Nothing to be ashamed of. We were lucky to win one playoff game. I would love to be them.

They have some holes but went about as far as you can go.

Replace the Patriots receiving core with our receiving core and they miss the playoffs this year.

Brady is not that(elite) good, and until I see evidence otherwise, I'm sticking to that opinion. The season where the Patriots went 12-4 with Matt Cassel leading them supports my argument.

[Medford Bronco]

Replace the Patriots receiving core with our receiving core and they miss the playoffs this year.

Brady is not that(elite) good, and until I see evidence otherwise, I'm sticking to that opinion. The season where the Patriots went 12-4 with Matt Cassel leading them supports my argument.

I respect your Op but disagree with it. That is what makes a debate fun.

btw it was 11-5 with Cassel;)

[Thnikkaman]

I respect your Op but disagree with it. That is what makes a debate fun.

btw it was 11-5 with Cassel;)

Sure. I'll say this, the next time the Patriots lose Brady to injury, I give them as much a chance to win as I did before.

[BroncoBJ]

He's never won a Super Bowl as an elite passer. He's currently 0-2 when they need a game winning TD in the Super Bowl. Did he play a good game? Yes. Is he one of the best passing QB's ever? Yes. Is he a first ballot HoF QB? Yes. Is he actually what a lot of his supporters say he is?


No.

Dumbest statement I think I've ever read on a message board in a long long time :lol: its almost comical and borderline trolling imo.

I guess no QB is an elite passer then. Brady had a go ahead TD late in SB 42, but Eli then got the ball back and scored leaving Brady very little time left. And this Superbowl, Welker dropped a pass that would have ran a few more minutes off the clock.

He is about 2 plays from being 5-0 in Superbowls. He is also 2 FG's from being 1-4 in SB's as well.

[BroncoBJ]

That was just as much as an off pass as it was a "non-catch." No way anyone can blame Welker for dropping that ball.

I think the pass to Wes was a real good throw and one Wes makes in his sleep daily. However the pass to Branch on the final drive was off, and if that had been a lil more on target, Branch would have got some major yards and who knows what would have happened.

Still tho, I'd take going to 5 Superbowls in 11 years and winning 3 of them. :salute:

[Ravage!!!]

I respect you Ravage but I disagree. Welker makes that play 95 off 100 times. Big time WR make that play. Brady had to drop it in there and he did.

I see what you are saying, but he to turn, in the air, leaping and twisting just to get his hands on that pass... in which he as WIDE open. That would have been a GREAT catch, on a poor pass.. and an even poorer pass considering how open he was. Could he have caught it, sure. SHOULD he have.. no way. Brady SHOULD have made a much better pass...... and Brady DID miss a WIDE open Gronk in the last playoff game.

That catch is not NEARLY.. not NEARLY... as easy as you guys are making it out to be.

[Poet]

BroncoBJ, did you make that cutler video?

Also, rubbing off a guy who is so clutch when he's 0-2 when they need a touchdown in the SB isn't trolling or dumb. I'm just curious, but how many here actually remember brady in the wins?

He came into his own as a passer around the time they beat Philly.

People seem to think that in those victories he was the guy he is now.

He's not. Watch their defense dismantle what was then the best offense ever. Watch Carolina victory as well.

At one point in his career he was a game manager.

[TXBRONC]

BroncoBJ, did you make that cutler video?

Also, rubbing off a guy who is so clutch when he's 0-2 when they need a touchdown in the SB isn't trolling or dumb. I'm just curious, but how many here actually remember brady in the wins?

He came into his own as a passer around the time they beat Philly.

People seem to think that in those victories he was the guy he is now.

He's not. Watch their defense dismantle what was then the best offense ever. Watch Carolina victory as well.

At one point in his career he was a game manager.

I'll say it again game managers don't win three Super Bowls in four years.

I don't of any journeymen quarterbacks that have one more than two Super Bowls and I don't know of any that have won back to back Super Bowls.

[Thnikkaman]

I'll say it again game managers don't win three Super Bowls in four years.

I don't of any journeymen quarterbacks that have one more than two Super Bowls and I don't know of any that have won back to back Super Bowls.

Sure you do. Tom Brady.

[TXBRONC]

Sure you do. Tom Brady.

You're a turd. :lol:

[Poet]

Go watch those SB's and actually look at those teams and you'll see that Brady was a game manager for two of them.

[slim]

King, are you saying that a QB can go from being a game manager to an elite level if he has enough time/experience?

[Poet]

King, are you saying that a QB can go from being a game manager to an elite level if he has enough time/experience?

Yes.

[BroncoBJ]

BroncoBJ, did you make that cutler video?

Also, rubbing off a guy who is so clutch when he's 0-2 when they need a touchdown in the SB isn't trolling or dumb. I'm just curious, but how many here actually remember brady in the wins?

He came into his own as a passer around the time they beat Philly.

People seem to think that in those victories he was the guy he is now.

He's not. Watch their defense dismantle what was then the best offense ever. Watch Carolina victory as well.

At one point in his career he was a game manager.

Like I said, They needed a TD in SB42 and he led them down the field for a TD. Then got the ball back again with about 30 seconds left. Does every QB lead teams down the field in 30 seconds?

Then in this SB had a pass to Welker that would have almost sealed the deal. Patriots Defense however is 0-2 when they need to stop Eli. You are correct about that. :salute:

He was a game manager who was clutch in the 4th quarter early in his career, and has turned to an elite passer.

I remember Brady since he 1st came in the league. I went to the Broncos/Patriots game in 2001 where we beat him 31-20 I believe and he threw 3 or so picks. I remember. :salute:

If I were to have any QB in the league, down by 4 with 2 minutes left, I'd choose Brady.

:lol: Comedy though.

[Northman]

Go watch those SB's and actually look at those teams and you'll see that Brady was a game manager for two of them.

Considering one happened in his second year and the other in his fourth year i would say that makes sense. Doesnt mean he's not elite. No rookie coming out of the box is elite.

[BroncoBJ]

Considering one happened in his second year and the other in his fourth year i would say that makes sense. Doesnt mean he's not elite. No rookie coming out of the box is elite.

Yea, I think what he means though is not everyone is Peyton Manning. Not everyone needs a TD in the final few minutes and then throws a pick 6. :fight: :lol:

[TXBRONC]

Yes.

I couldn't disagree more. All quarterbacks worth their salt manage game. But that doesn't make them elite quarterback. So the hell what he didn't put eye popping numbers in the Super Bowl.

[Ravage!!!]

I think King is nuts on this one.... ok.... he's just nuts but is PROVING it on this one.

[PatriotsGuy]

Funny stuff :laugh:

[BroncoBJ]

I think King is nuts on this one.... ok.... he's just nuts but is PROVING it on this one.

:lol: Yea, hes losing it.

[WTE]

I finally read this thread and cracked up that some of you think that Tom Brady is more a "game manager" or isn't as good as Joe Montana because he lost a couple critical playoff games.

I think these same posters were either too young to watch Montana or probably not even born.

Did you know................

In 1983 Joe Montana lost the NFC Championship Game to Washington 24-21?

In 1985 Joe Montana was quickly eliminated in the playoffs by the New York Giants 17-3? (that's right, 3 points)

In 1986 Joe Montana lost again in the Playoffs to the Giants 49-3? (Tom Brady's team has never been embrassed like that in the playoffs!)

In 1990 the NY Giants beat Joe Montana's 49ers 15-13? (Hmmmmm, low scoring. Game manager Joe?)

In 1992 Joe Montana lost to the Dallas Cowboys 30-20 in the NFC Championship Game. (Hey King, does scoring just 20 points mean Joe was just a "Game Manager?)

You can't win them all Haters!!

[Medford Bronco]

I finally read this thread and cracked up that some of you think that Tom Brady is more a "game manager" or isn't as good as Joe Montana because he lost a couple critical playoff games.

I think these same posters were either too young to watch Montana or probably not even born.

Did you know................

In 1983 Joe Montana lost the NFC Championship Game to Washington 24-21?

In 1985 Joe Montana was quickly eliminated in the playoffs by the New York Giants 17-3? (that's right, 3 points)

In 1986 Joe Montana lost again in the Playoffs to the Giants 49-3? (Tom Brady's team has never been embrassed like that in the playoffs!)

In 1990 the NY Giants beat Joe Montana's 49ers 15-13? (Hmmmmm, low scoring. Game manager Joe?)

In 1992 Joe Montana lost to the Dallas Cowboys 30-20 in the NFC Championship Game. (Hey King, does scoring just 20 points mean Joe was just a "Game Manager?)

You can't win them all Haters!!

Hey WTE Montana was hurt in 1992 and Young played that game;)

your point is well taken though. and my point is that I think Montana is the best I ever saw. It if was so easy, he would have won 7 Super Bowls. It is not easy.
IN another sport. Wayne Gretzky only won 4 Championships and is arguably the best hockey player of all time, this side of Bobby Orr.

BTW what happened to the 1987 game that they were 13-2 and lost to a sucky Minny team at home 36-24

Minnesota Vikings 36, San Francisco 49ers 24Game summary
1 2 3 4 Total
Vikings 3 17 10 6 36
49ers 3 0 14 7 24

at Candlestick Park, San Francisco

Game time: 4:00 p.m. EST/1:00 p.m. PST
Game attendance: 63,008
Referee: Gene Barth
TV announcers (CBS): Tim Ryan and Joe Theismann

[show]Game information
Scoring MIN - field goal Nelson 21 MIN 3-0SF - field goal Wersching 43 3-3MIN - Hilton 7 pass from Wilson (Nelson kick) MIN 10-3MIN - field goal Nelson 23 MIN 13-3MIN - Mustafaa 45 interception return (Nelson kick) MIN 20-3SF - Fuller 48 interception return (Wersching kick) MIN 20-10MIN - Jones 5 pass from Wilson (Nelson kick) MIN 27-10SF - Young 5 run (Wersching kick) MIN 27-17MIN - field goal Nelson 40 MIN 30-17MIN - field goal Nelson 40 MIN 33-17SF - Franklin 16 pass from Young (Wersching kick) MIN 33-24MIN - field goal Nelson 23 MIN 36-24


Aided by wide receiver Anthony Carter's 10 receptions for an NFL playoff record 227 receiving yards, the Vikings upset the top seeded 49ers, who had earned the league's best record during the regular season at 13-2. After the teams traded field goals in the first quarter, quarterback Wade Wilson completed a 7-yard touchdown pass to tight end Carl Hilton. Minnesota then jumped to a 20-3 lead before halftime with Chuck Nelson's 23-yard field goal and defensive back Najee Mustafaa a.k.a. Reggie Rutland's 45-yard interception return for a touchdown. In the third period, San Francisco defensive back Jeff Fuller returned an interception 48 yard for a touchdown, but it was countered with Wilson's 5-yard touchdown pass to Hassan Jones. 49ers backup quarterback Steve Young, who replaced starter Joe Montana midway through the game, scored a rushing touchdown and threw another. But it was not enough as Nelson made 3 more field goals in the second half to put the game out of reach.

Until 2008, this was the last time the #1 seed in the NFC did not advance to the NFC Championship game.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Montana http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987%E2%80%9388_NFL_playoffs#NFC:_Minnesota_Viking s_36.2C_San_Francisco_49ers_24

[WTE]

Hey WTE Montana was hurt in 1992 and Young played that game;)

your point is well taken though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Montana

But you're proving my point Med. The last 5 years or so Brady's played through injury in the playoffs and hasn't been as effective. He had the foot injury in Super Bowl 42 and wasn't mobile enough to avoid the pass rush.

Last Sunday Justin Tuck re-injured Tom Brady's left shoulder and he wasn't the same after. Prior to the hit brady completed 16 in a row. After the hit he was like 7 of 16 or something.

In Tom brady's early career injury was not a problem and it did not affect his game in the playoffs. Just like Montana.

As Brady got older injury has affected his game in the playoffs. Just like Montana.

You're very wise and astute Med.

[Medford Bronco]

But you're proving my point Med. The last 5 years or so Brady's played through injury in the playoffs and hasn't been as effective. He had the foot injury in Super Bowl 42 and wasn't mobile enough to avoid the pass rush.

Last Sunday Justin Tuck re-injured Tom Brady's left shoulder and he wasn't the same after. Prior to the hit brady completed 16 in a row. After the hit he was like 7 of 16 or something.

In Tom brady's early career injury was not a problem and it did not affect his game in the playoffs. Just like Montana.

As Brady got older injury has affected his game in the playoffs. Just like Montana.

You're very wise and astute Med.

:salute: Thanks WTE.

I have heard some pink hats around here blame the whole game on Brady. They are so dumb it is not even funny.

So many things change that game besides the Welker play. I also dont like the pass pass all the time offense. I would like to see NE use more run and set up play action more, with Gronk being at less than 100%

Brady got slammed by Tuck and that was when the passes were a bit off. Also his WR like Branch and Hernandez did not help either.

It is a team game as we like to think. This was a see saw game. The Giants eaked one out. Even game, good to watch for most neutral fans.

I would take Brady right now over anyone except maybe Rodgers. That is only because of age, otherwise the top 3 with Brees as well are so far above the rest before the next tier.

What cracks me up is the game manager has like a 115-36 lifetime record and never had a losing season. Even Montana, the best, had a losing season at the beginning of his career before Bill Walsh got it all together and changed the way the NFL offense is played.

Just my opinion, not that I am any expert. :lol:

[Thnikkaman]

:salute: Thanks WTE.

I have heard some pink hats around here blame the whole game on Brady. They are so dumb it is not even funny.

So many things change that game besides the Welker play. I also dont like the pass pass all the time offense. I would like to see NE use more run and set up play action more, with Gronk being at less than 100%

Brady got slammed by Tuck and that was when the passes were a bit off. Also his WR like Branch and Hernandez did not help either.

It is a team game as we like to think. This was a see saw game. The Giants eaked one out. Even game, good to watch for most neutral fans.

I would take Brady right now over anyone except maybe Rodgers. That is only because of age, otherwise the top 3 with Brees as well are so far above the rest before the next tier.

What cracks me up is the game manager has like a 115-36 lifetime record and never had a losing season. Even Montana, the best, had a losing season at the beginning of his career before Bill Walsh got it all together and changed the way the NFL offense is played.

Just my opinion, not that I am any expert. :lol:

You say that we want to blame the game on Brady, but you want to give him all the credit for the 115-36 record.

The quarterback win-loss record is about as useful as a pitcher or goalie win-loss record.

I agree with you that its the team that wins and loses the game. That's why I'm more impressed with the Patriots as a whole than Brady individually. Again, Brady is good, he is just not Elite.

[TXBRONC]

I finally read this thread and cracked up that some of you think that Tom Brady is more a "game manager" or isn't as good as Joe Montana because he lost a couple critical playoff games.

I think these same posters were either too young to watch Montana or probably not even born.

Did you know................

In 1983 Joe Montana lost the NFC Championship Game to Washington 24-21?

In 1985 Joe Montana was quickly eliminated in the playoffs by the New York Giants 17-3? (that's right, 3 points)

In 1986 Joe Montana lost again in the Playoffs to the Giants 49-3? (Tom Brady's team has never been embrassed like that in the playoffs!)

In 1990 the NY Giants beat Joe Montana's 49ers 15-13? (Hmmmmm, low scoring. Game manager Joe?)

In 1992 Joe Montana lost to the Dallas Cowboys 30-20 in the NFC Championship Game. (Hey King, does scoring just 20 points mean Joe was just a "Game Manager?)

You can't win them all Haters!!

The Patriots were beat 45-10 by the Bears in the '85 Super Bowl I think qualifies as embarrassing. Also just for information sake Steve Young was the quarterback of the 49ers in '92. You do however have the correct score of the game. :D

[Ravage!!!]

But you're proving my point Med. The last 5 years or so Brady's played through injury in the playoffs and hasn't been as effective. He had the foot injury in Super Bowl 42 and wasn't mobile enough to avoid the pass rush.

Last Sunday Justin Tuck re-injured Tom Brady's left shoulder and he wasn't the same after. Prior to the hit brady completed 16 in a row. After the hit he was like 7 of 16 or something.



This is just looking for excuses. I've been defending Brady throughout this thread, but Brady's shoulder didn't hinder his play. The Giants hindered his play. Now you are throwing excuses to an injury in the last Super Bowl.... another excuse that is lame.

The team went 18-0,and you want to blame the foot for the Super Bowl? Jeeez, thats REALLY hurting your case... and just like Tebow... REALLY making you sound ridiculously homerish.

[WTE]

This is just looking for excuses. I've been defending Brady throughout this thread, but Brady's shoulder didn't hinder his play. The Giants hindered his play. Now you are throwing excuses to an injury in the last Super Bowl.... another excuse that is lame.

The team went 18-0,and you want to blame the foot for the Super Bowl? Jeeez, thats REALLY hurting your case... and just like Tebow... REALLY making you sound ridiculously homerish.

Who said I'm looking for excuses? The Patriots lost. Big deal. My point is you can't win them all.

And please don't defend Brady. Patriot Nation doesn't need an ass like you defending Tom Brady. You were jumping up and down when Pollard destroyed his knee.

You're a dikk. There, I said it.

[Thnikkaman]

Who said I'm looking for excuses? The Patriots lost. Big deal. My point is you can't win them all.

And please don't defend Brady. Patriot Nation doesn't need an ass like you defending Tom Brady. You were jumping up and down when Pollard destroyed his knee.

You're a dikk. There, I said it.

I think your post should have this appended to the end of it.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[WTE]

I think your post should have this appended to the end of it.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

That's awesome Tink.

[Ravage!!!]

Who said I'm looking for excuses? The Patriots lost. Big deal. My point is you can't win them all.

And please don't defend Brady. Patriot Nation doesn't need an ass like you defending Tom Brady. You were jumping up and down when Pollard destroyed his knee.

You're a dikk. There, I said it.

Awww.. now you've gone and hurt my feelings.

[WTE]

Awww.. now you've gone and hurt my feelings.

I was hoping you would get hurt. There, I said it.

[MNPatsFan]

The Patriots were beat 45-10 by the Bears in the '85 Super Bowl I think qualifies as embarrassing.Yes, that was a very embarrassing and depressing loss, especially because shortly afterwards word broke that several members of that team had drug abuse issues, etc.:tsk:

However, I don't believe that Tom Brady was the quarterback of that team, so I don't see how that has any relevance in response to WTE's post?:confused:

[TXBRONC]

Yes, that was a very embarrassing and depressing loss, especially because shortly afterwards word broke that several members of that team had drug abuse issues, etc.:tsk:

However, I don't believe that Tom Brady was the quarterback of that team, so I don't see how that has any relevance in response to WTE's post?:confused:

The point was that it's an embarrassing lose. Are you less confused now?

[FanInAZ]

The Patriots were beat 45-10 by the Bears in the '85 Super Bowl I think qualifies as embarrassing.


Yes, that was a very embarrassing and depressing loss, especially because shortly afterwards word broke that several members of that team had drug abuse issues, etc.:tsk:

However, I don't believe that Tom Brady was the quarterback of that team, so I don't see how that has any relevance in response to WTE's post?:confused:


The point was that it's an embarrassing lose. Are you less confused now?

Just to clear up your confusion TX, here is what WTE actually wrote in the post that you responded to...


In 1986 Joe Montana lost again in the Playoffs to the Giants 49-3? (Tom Brady's team has never been embrassed like that in the playoffs!)

[Medford Bronco]

The Patriots were beat 45-10 by the Bears in the '85 Super Bowl I think qualifies as embarrassing. Also just for information sake Steve Young was the quarterback of the 49ers in '92. You do however have the correct score of the game. :D

46-10 so who is counting ;)

1 2 3 4 Total
Bears 13 10 21 2 46
Patriots 3 0 0 7 10

at Louisiana Superdome, New Orleans, Louisiana

Date: January 26, 1986
Game time: 4:21 p.m. CST
Game weather: Played indoors, domed stadium


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XX

[TXBRONC]

Just to clear up your confusion TX, here is what WTE actually wrote in the post that you responded to...

I caught it I'm just pointing they've had embarrassing loses.

If we need a Tom Brady moment then look no further than their first meeting with the Bills. Brady threw four picks. The score was close but they didn't all that good. Better yet the Steelers beat the snot out of them several weeks later.

[WTE]

I caught it I'm just pointing they've had embarrassing loses.



When the Patriots lost 46-10 in the Super Bowl to the Bears I was convinced that would hold up as the most embarrassing Super Bowl score in my entire lifetime.

Thank God your Broncos showed up a couple years later and grabbed the title!! :lol:

[TXBRONC]

When the Patriots lost 46-10 in the Super Bowl to the Bears I was convinced that would hold up as the most embarrassing Super Bowl score in my entire lifetime.

Thank God your Broncos showed up a couple years later and grabbed the title!! :lol:

Who cares? Nevertheless it still ranks in the top two or three most lopsided loses in the history of the Super Bowl.

Anyway if you care to scroll back through the thread you'll see I've actually defended Brady. ;)

[DenBronx]

Brady won his SuperBowls by the foot of a kicker.

Montana won his with his own arm.

[FanInAZ]

When the Patriots lost 46-10 in the Super Bowl to the Bears I was convinced that would hold up as the most embarrassing Super Bowl score in my entire lifetime.

Thank God your Broncos showed up a couple years later and grabbed the title!! :lol:

Too bad Leon Lett was showboating 3 years later which allow Don Beebe to strip him of the TD that would have given the title to the Bills. :tsk:

[broncosflow]

Clearly not.

Not to mention the super bowls he won are spy gate era.

This last super bowl lost proved in my eyes that Montana probably remains as the GOAT.