Which D Line Look Will the Broncos Go With?

[Ziggy]

Last season the Broncos went with a new defensive philosiphy on the defensive line. Xanders stated that they didn't want the big pluggers in the middle. They wanted faster, smaller tackles that could get upfield and be disruptive. Vickerson's 30 pound weight loss in the offseason was by design and suggestion of the coaching staff.

Enter JDR. His defenses have had the huge pluggers at NT. He prefers the bigger D lines. In Carolina he went with big 350 pound Chris Jenkins in the middle. His defenses in Jacksonville consistently had the big uglies on the inside. John Henderson was around 340. He was replaced by Terrance Knighton who is listed at 336, but the staff has made no secret about the fact that he's closer to 350 than 330.

Which way will the Broncos go this season? With Bunkley being a free agent, I think we'll know soon. If JDR chooses to go bigger at NT, Bunk may be gone without a thought. There's a couple of big fellas that should be available in the late first-second round area for the Broncos to pick up should they choose to change philosiphies:
Dontari Poe- 6'5 350
Alameda Ta'amu- 6'2 1/2 341

Both of these guys will move up the draft boards between now and the draft, because they can play in both a 4-3 and a 3-4 defense. I expect both Ta'amu and Poe to make a Phil Taylor type of rise into the first round. If the Broncos want either, they will need to spend that 25th pick on one of them. Both guys are stout against the run and can collapse the pocket. Anyone watch the New England-Baltimore AFC championship game? Vince Wilfork took over that game collapsing the pocket on defense.

In free agency there are a few good options for big men also:
Paul Solai- 6'4 355
Sione Pouha- 6'3 325
Sammy Lee Hill- 6'4 330

[MOtorboat]

But, but, JDR won't be changing the scheme...

[iLands]

He shouldn't be chained to a man that doesn't have the job.

[DenBronx]

I like Paul Solai but I'm not so sure we need to dish out big money for any of the high priced DTs anymore.

We most likely will sign Bunkley to a LTC and keep Thomas. Not to mention we still have Ty Warren and Vickerson. Maybe we will wait until after the draft before bringing in anymore new FA DTs? They might want to see if someone falls in the draft.

Is JDR going to switch up the front 4 or keep it?

[underrated29]

Isn't solie a 34good guy?

I happen to like big guys in the middle immovable roadblocks who also keep our lbs clean...that said I'd def keep bunk #1.. its not about size but also skill and bunk owns the run hardcore which is exactly what we want!

What we need is another run anchor. And someone (small or fast or big and fat) I don't care, just someone which can collapse the damn pocket. Its been my opinion that it has been our number one need since we drafted Jarvis moss.


Depending on how much ty warren has left in the tank, im nit expecting a whole lot. I think we need another mountain of a man and a pocket collapsed, pressure the qb guy.

[Ziggy]

Isn't solie a 34good guy?

I happen to like big guys in the middle immovable roadblocks who also keep our lbs clean...that said I'd def keep bunk #1.. its not about size but also skill and bunk owns the run hardcore which is exactly what we want!



Soliai can play both. He's a rock in the middle, and he can collapse the pocket. He moves incredibly well for a 350 pounder. His game is very similar to a young Shaun Rodgers.

[CoachChaz]

I guess im the opposite. I think we need a guy that can hold his vs the run, but more importantly...can rush the passer from the inside.

[rcsodak]

I agree with coach. Bringing pressure from the edges is useless as long as the qb has an acre of green in front of him.
Pressure in their face is what jacks with qbs

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[Ziggy]

I agree with coach. Bringing pressure from the edges is useless as long as the qb has an acre of green in front of him.
Pressure in their face is what jacks with qbs

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Collapsing pockets= pressure in a QB's face also.

[Nomad]

Collapsing pockets= pressure in a QB's face also.

True! I believe with this and VonDoom, it would improve/take the pressure off the secondary as well. I like to find out for once if a stud DT would improve this defense

[elsid13]

I hope the go with bigger DT inside and I have always like Sammie Lee Hill, but I don't Detroit lets him go.

[TheReverend]

Bunkley isn't huge but he plays with a great deal of leverage and will excel at any NT 4-3 look. I think retaining him is vital towards improving our defense.

I wrote this up elsewhere and it's what I'd like to us do defensively moving forward:

Please institute this defense at the very least in package looks, but I would prefer it to be the base: create a 43 Double Fan which would obviously be played out of an under front (akin to below only with tighter splits than the 3T DT and 7 DE):

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/08/sports/08fifthdown-eleph/08fifthdown-eleph-blogSpan.jpg

Background:

A double fan classically comes from 34 looks. Essentially it means the DL is going to adjust their splits so they're basically heads up on the opposing IOL (NT over C, DEs over Gs). What makes this a double fan is the pass rushing ability of BOTH 34 OLBs (see Pittsburgh's Harrison and Woodley -- also note the leaps and bounds of improvement of Washington's defense by adding Kerrigan opposite Orakpo and often playing double fans). Both OLBs will them line up over the tackles.
What does this create? One on one match ups across the board. Additionally, blitzing an ILB over the A gaps gives him a STRAIGHT shot at the QB with AT MOST a RB to try and stop him.


Von Miller gives us the freedom to apply this to our 43.

Imagine Elvis, Thomas, Bunkley, Ayers, Miller all one on one against the opposing OL. Getting wood yet? Good, let's go deeper.

Press coverage behind it. Lackluster for turnovers, for sure (at least until the effectiveness starts to embolden to jumping routes and putting 6 on the board with semi-regularity), but provides the rush and blitz another second to get to the QB and will be certain to cause both incompletions and sacks (*probably even more prominently intentional groundings) in spades. Press coverage (needed upgrades at RCB and nickel back), with a cover 1 safety (Moore dependent on development), and a box safety (Carter) to baby sit the TE to accommodate a potentially blitzing LB.

Enough p***Y footing around when we have significant pressure weapons.
Kill em all, let Tebow sort em out.

[dogfish]

Which D Line Look Will the Broncos Go With?

ziggy, ziggy. . . you know the answer to this already; "whichever one they can get for cheap". . .

[G_Money]

I was gonna say, "Hopefully the one that doesn't play like lil pantywaists" but I like yours better, dog.

Personally I see us adding Aubrayo Franklin on the cheap to give Del Rio a big dude in the middle but not spend much actual cheddar to do so.

Mmm...cheese...

That said, would I be against an Aubrayo / Garay pairing on the front line? No. Put Dan Connor behind a couple of big boys like that and we might get somewhere.

Wait, that would require us to go get free agents. I'm overestimating our desire to add quality FAs again, arent I?

~G

[rcsodak]

I see fox keeping in line with what they did last year, but with hopefully a bigger push/hold contain in the middle of the DL.
Theyve got the outside rush, now add the interior. And for crapssakes, get somebody to fill, in millers hole, after he runs himself out of the play.

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[Jsteve01]

I was gonna say, "Hopefully the one that doesn't play like lil pantywaists" but I like yours better, dog.

Personally I see us adding Aubrayo Franklin on the cheap to give Del Rio a big dude in the middle but not spend much actual cheddar to do so.

Mmm...cheese...

That said, would I be against an Aubrayo / Garay pairing on the front line? No. Put Dan Connor behind a couple of big boys like that and we might get somewhere.

Wait, that would require us to go get free agents. I'm overestimating our desire to add quality FAs again, arent I?

~G

Im just not sure bringing in Aubrayo over Bunk is anything but a lateral move. Also Connor is a sure tackler but unless he can be had at a value, I'd rather see what Irving brings to the table then sign an avg player to plug in for a year or two.

[G_Money]

I'm not really looking forward to re-signing Joe Mays if Irving can't do it, and there currently isn't a backup signed at the position. I'm fine with Irving as a backup, especially since Connor isn't always a picture of health.

But no, I'm not okay with asking a guy who couldn't beat out a special teamer to set foot on the field the first 3 downs of any game this year to suddenly be a 16 game starter for me. I also wonder if Irving might not do better as a Sam backup.

And I think Aubrayo vs. Bunk is pretty lateral too, but if you want a bigger guy then Aubrayo is bigger. Nothing says Bunk will re-sign here either.

Point is, we need a better FA presence than we had last year. There are several guys out there who can help this club, and we'd better add some of em.

~G

[Ziggy]

I'm a fan of Soliai for a few different reasons. He's young, he moves really well for his size, and he can collapse a pocket. He tends to wear down as the game goes on, but what 350 pounder doesn't? He's a stone wall when it comes to playing the run.

[dogfish]

if they want to switch to a monster one-technique, soliai, aubrayo franklin and sione pouha all fit the bill. . .

probably not our budget, though-- particularly at that position. . .

i ask again-- who can we get on the cheap? because that's most likely who we'll be getting. . .

hey, if jack wants bigger, vickerson can always gain some weight back. . . :laugh:

frankly, i won't be the tiniest bit surprised if/when they trot out him and warren as next year's starters, with a couple never-heard of um's like unrein as the backups. . .

[Traveler]

Sammy Lee Hill- 6'4 330

If this guy is available, he'd be a very nice addition. Under the radar type that is buried on the DET depth chart.

[Ziggy]

On the cheap?

Sione Pouha- 33 years old
Kelly Gregg- 35 years old
Shaun Rodgers- 33 years old
Sammie Lee Hill- 25, but still may come cheap


Out of that list, you have to think that EFX would go after Sammie Lee Hill due to age. Shaun Rodgers has a history with both Fox and JDR, so he could be brought in as a depth guy.

[dogfish]

On the cheap?

Sione Pouha- 33 years old
Kelly Gregg- 35 years old
Shaun Rodgers- 33 years old
Sammie Lee Hill- 25, but still may come cheap


Out of that list, you have to think that EFX would go after Sammie Lee Hill due to age. Shaun Rodgers has a history with both Fox and JDR, so he could be brought in as a depth guy.

think cheaper, and more broken down. . . :D

[Ziggy]

I believe Hill is a RFA, so that one's not a gimme.

[Traveler]

I believe Hill is a RFA, so that one's not a gimme.

That's what I thought.

[dogfish]

jimmy kennedy sounds about our speed. . . .

[rcsodak]

think cheaper, and more broken down. . . :Dfoxy≠shanny

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[CoachChaz]

I believe Hill is a RFA, so that one's not a gimme.

Correct

[Jsteve01]

I'm not really looking forward to re-signing Joe Mays if Irving can't do it, and there currently isn't a backup signed at the position. I'm fine with Irving as a backup, especially since Connor isn't always a picture of health.

But no, I'm not okay with asking a guy who couldn't beat out a special teamer to set foot on the field the first 3 downs of any game this year to suddenly be a 16 game starter for me. I also wonder if Irving might not do better as a Sam backup.

And I think Aubrayo vs. Bunk is pretty lateral too, but if you want a bigger guy then Aubrayo is bigger. Nothing says Bunk will re-sign here either.

Point is, we need a better FA presence than we had last year. There are several guys out there who can help this club, and we'd better add some of em.

~G

Irving had a high ankle sprain in camp. I don't think he ever recovered. Go watch the tape from his senior year at nc State. He will be a player for us.

[SOCALORADO.]

Alameda Ta'amu can play either NT or DT and he can penetate and collapse the pocket.
Hes a handful. Just get him and be done with it.

[G_Money]

Irving had a high ankle sprain in camp. I don't think he ever recovered. Go watch the tape from his senior year at nc State. He will be a player for us.

Nobody was higher on Irving in the draft than me. Thought he was a great pick. I don't need to "go watch tape" thanks anyway.

Doesn't mean he can do what we need him to do, or at the position we'd need him to do it at to begin the 2012 season.

~G

[CoachChaz]

I think Irving has the skill and heart for the position, but he's yet to play a down there. Not something I'm excited about going into a season.

He'll be a good one...but he isnt there yet

[rcsodak]

I think Irving has the skill and heart for the position, but he's yet to play a down there. Not something I'm excited about going into a season.

He'll be a good one...but he isnt there yet
Which means Mays most likely isnt going anywhere.

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[G_Money]

I think Irving has the skill and heart for the position, but he's yet to play a down there. Not something I'm excited about going into a season.

He'll be a good one...but he isnt there yet

Counting on someone with zero game experience in the pros is a risk I don't think we have to take. And even if he IS great, he's another high ankle sprain away from us using...who exactly at the MLB position?

We have no depth. If we add Connor and Irving can beat him out for the job, then we have a very capable backup making more than backup money, while our starter makes less than starter money. It's a wash, and we have depth.

I like Irving, and I think he'll play in the league for several years, but he's not Von Miller. He's not a top pick or a Pro Bowler and he's not owed a position. He can compete for a job against a capable player and get his shot to win it outright, and if worse comes to worse we have a DJ / Woodyard situation at MLB, which has worked out well for us at the Will for depth, special teams talent and quality play so far.

Either Woodyard or DJ is outta here this offseason, so we're losing that depth at Will. Let's find out if Irving is even gonna play MLB before we just hand him the job.

~G

[TheReverend]

Alameda Ta'amu can play either NT or DT and he can penetate and collapse the pocket.
Hes a handful. Just get him and be done with it.

Well said, but I'm still holding out hopes for a Devon Still slide. Hopeful that turf toe holds him out of the combine too lol :)