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TheReverend
02-04-2012, 03:11 PM
Figured I'd put some proactive effort in and post this up.

Anyone who has any questions about anything relating to defenses in the game of football (from pee wee to college) can post it here and I will do my best to answer it. I should be able to answer all or at the very least refer you to someone who could answer that question, or find it myself and respond back.

Anything from 0-9 positions on the DL, LB positions further back, under and over fronts, different types of 34s, what a double fan is, types of blitzes and stunts, and my specialty is defensive backfields so I promise I can answer any question you have about coverages!

catfish
02-04-2012, 08:32 PM
Figured I'd put some proactive effort in and post this up.

Anyone who has any questions about anything relating to defenses in the game of football (from pee wee to college) can post it here and I will do my best to answer it. I should be able to answer all or at the very least refer you to someone who could answer that question, or find it myself and respond back.

Anything from 0-9 positions on the DL, LB positions further back, under and over fronts, different types of 34s, what a double fan is, types of blitzes and stunts, and my specialty is defensive backfields so I promise I can answer any question you have about coverages!

I actually have a question about defending the spread option/a running QB. There seem to be two trains of thought on the subject. The first is that it is a gimmicky offense and Defenses just need tape, the other is that it legitimately puts a defense at a disadvantage by needing to play 11 v 11 football. Assuming the QB is an average passer from a defensive perspective is the spread option actually legitimate at the Pro level(tough to defend)? why/why not?

TheReverend
02-05-2012, 02:40 PM
I actually have a question about defending the spread option/a running QB. There seem to be two trains of thought on the subject. The first is that it is a gimmicky offense and Defenses just need tape, the other is that it legitimately puts a defense at a disadvantage by needing to play 11 v 11 football. Assuming the QB is an average passer from a defensive perspective is the spread option actually legitimate at the Pro level(tough to defend)? why/why not?

ABSOLUTELY.

Not only does it make 11v11 football and level the playing field more, but it creates SEVERAL huge offensive advantages:

1. Multi-dimensional offense. You've heard of taking away the passing or running game to make an opposing offense "one dimensional", but what do you do when the running game itself is multidimensional? The reaction time from the snap to the potential hand off is nill for a defensive player and breaks them down to assignment football (player x responsible for player y). If a team designs to remove a Ray Rice from Baltimore, they put the game on Joe Flacco's arm. If a team designs to remove McGahee from Denver, Tim can run rampant.

2. More than 11 v 11: Tim's run ability and that multi-dimensional rushing game usually translates into at LEAST the weakside DE playing contain (often BOTH DE's), which dramatically slows the pass rush as they're now taking away rushing lanes instead of trying to apply quick pressure. We also generally see 1-2 LBs playing "spy", which opens up coverage seams even more (ref: Miami deep throw to Fells, both TDs @ Oakland, etc).

3. Size advantage. Going "spread" will bring dime packages out from opposing defenses. More DBs will = better coverage, better speed, but smaller... something a massive player like Tebow can run rough-shod on (heck, we've even seen Aaron Rogers run crazy on defenses thanks to spreads).

Let me know if you want more details towards any of these.

rcsodak
02-05-2012, 02:50 PM
I would like to know your football resume.

Tia

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Northman
02-05-2012, 02:55 PM
In my opinion the option wont last at the pro level. At least with a inconsistent passer as it stands at the moment. In order for something like this to work longterm Tim will have to improve dramatically in the passing area and on a consistent basis for it too be successful in the long run. Which is why when it comes to QB's in the NFL they are always more successful as pass first, run second QB's.

rcsodak
02-05-2012, 02:59 PM
I believe we all saw with our own eyes, how the option is no longer an option (pun intended).

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catfish
02-05-2012, 03:05 PM
ABSOLUTELY.

Not only does it make 11v11 football and level the playing field more, but it creates SEVERAL huge offensive advantages:

1. Multi-dimensional offense. You've heard of taking away the passing or running game to make an opposing offense "one dimensional", but what do you do when the running game itself is multidimensional? The reaction time from the snap to the potential hand off is nill for a defensive player and breaks them down to assignment football (player x responsible for player y). If a team designs to remove a Ray Rice from Baltimore, they put the game on Joe Flacco's arm. If a team designs to remove McGahee from Denver, Tim can run rampant.

2. More than 11 v 11: Tim's run ability and that multi-dimensional rushing game usually translates into at LEAST the weakside DE playing contain (often BOTH DE's), which dramatically slows the pass rush as they're now taking away rushing lanes instead of trying to apply quick pressure. We also generally see 1-2 LBs playing "spy", which opens up coverage seams even more (ref: Miami deep throw to Fells, both TDs @ Oakland, etc).

3. Size advantage. Going "spread" will bring dime packages out from opposing defenses. More DBs will = better coverage, better speed, but smaller... something a massive player like Tebow can run rough-shod on (heck, we've even seen Aaron Rogers run crazy on defenses thanks to spreads).

Let me know if you want more details towards any of these.

thank you, I agree with others when they say the option won't take off in the NFL, but figured it was the result of teams fearing injury to the QB rather than it being a "gimmick" that won't work. Appreciate the info.

TheReverend
02-05-2012, 03:20 PM
I would like to know your football resume.

Tia

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Frankly that's just not your business. Feel free to "test me" on whatever you'd like though. Or feel free to just doubt me. I don't mind.


In my opinion the option wont last at the pro level. At least with a inconsistent passer as it stands at the moment. In order for something like this to work longterm Tim will have to improve dramatically in the passing area and on a consistent basis for it too be successful in the long run. Which is why when it comes to QB's in the NFL they are always more successful as pass first, run second QB's.

It'll be here to stay, just situationally. Denver itself didn't run the spread option as a base. As Tim develops, so will our offense.


I believe we all saw with our own eyes, how the option is no longer an option (pun intended).

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I believe we all saw with our own eyes how it opened up a verticle passing game against the #1 pass and #1 defense in the NFL.


thank you, I agree with others when they say the option won't take off in the NFL, but figured it was the result of teams fearing injury to the QB rather than it being a "gimmick" that won't work. Appreciate the info.

No problem.

catfish
02-05-2012, 03:33 PM
another question...is there something schematically that can be done to increase created turnovers by our D. We pretty much sucked at TO differential last year, would be nice to get more short drives. We seem to be getting pretty good outside pressure. Is it a matter of needing more inside pressure, better corner/Safety play or something schematically that can be changed. or is it all just a roll the dice thing

TheReverend
02-05-2012, 03:46 PM
another question...is there something schematically that can be done to increase created turnovers by our D. We pretty much sucked at TO differential last year, would be nice to get more short drives. We seem to be getting pretty good outside pressure. Is it a matter of needing more inside pressure, better corner/Safety play or something schematically that can be changed. or is it all just a roll the dice thing

Yes. More zones. We played a lot of man and cover 1 schemes and when we did zones it was more cover 3 looks (more prone to give up the short passes).

Man coverage is playing the WR first and most of the time your back is to the QB. In zones you're able to read the QB and his eyes from your zone and make a play on the ball MUCH easier.

catfish
02-05-2012, 03:48 PM
Yes. More zones. We played a lot of man and cover 1 schemes and when we did zones it was more cover 3 looks (more prone to give up the short passes).

Man coverage is playing the WR first and most of the time your back is to the QB. In zones you're able to read the QB and his eyes from your zone and make a play on the ball MUCH easier.

thank you again

rcsodak
02-05-2012, 04:00 PM
Frankly that's just not your business. Feel free to "test me" on whatever you'd like though. Or feel free to just doubt me. I don't mind.



It'll be here to stay, just situationally. Denver itself didn't run the spread option as a base. As Tim develops, so will our offense.



I believe we all saw with our own eyes how it opened up a verticle passing game against the #1 pass and #1 defense in the NFL.



No problem.

Lmao. Guess that answers that.

And the Pitt win was dick Lebeu out-thinking himself.

Did he not watch tape from the Chi/NE/Det/KC games?

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TheReverend
02-05-2012, 04:11 PM
Lmao. Guess that answers that.

And the Pitt win was dick Lebeu out-thinking himself.

Did he not watch tape from the Chi/NE/Det/KC games?

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I realize that you're trying to troll me, so let's bring it back to THIS level:

What do you think Lebeau did differently than Chi/NE/Det/KC games?

And use detail. This should be fun.

topscribe
02-05-2012, 04:31 PM
I realize that you're trying to troll me, so let's bring it back to THIS level:

What do you think Lebeau did differently than Chi/NE/Det/KC games?

And use detail. This should be fun.

Actually, I thought that was a reasonable inquiry. If you are going to pose as a
defensive expert, it would seem to me it is fair to ask of your resume. :whoknows:

-----

yuhateme80
02-05-2012, 04:33 PM
It was simple how pits screwed up the put 11 men in the box no safety help for Taylor and if u want to act like a know it all then u should let people know wats ur experience

TheReverend
02-05-2012, 04:33 PM
Actually, I thought that was a reasonable inquiry. If you are going to pose as a
defensive expert, it would seem to me it is fair to ask of your resume. :whoknows:

-----

Think you responded to the wrong post.

And you can either ask a question or not. I don't care. I'm not "posing" as anything... just offering. What people infer from there is up to them and won't phase me.

yuhateme80
02-05-2012, 04:35 PM
Think about this if I say anyone has medical questions I got the answer u will want to know whats my resume

TheReverend
02-05-2012, 04:36 PM
Think about this if I say anyone has medical questions I got the answer u will want to know whats my resume

...if I have medical questions I'm not asking someone on an internet forum...

BroncoWave
02-05-2012, 05:01 PM
Not really sure what you have to lose by discussing your resume. It will only help your credibility (unless you're just full of it).

topscribe
02-05-2012, 05:02 PM
Think you responded to the wrong post.

And you can either ask a question or not. I don't care. I'm not "posing" as anything... just offering. What people infer from there is up to them and won't phase me.

No, I responded to the intended post, the one in which you accused RC of
trolling because he wanted to know the extent of your expertise. I just think
that is a reasonable inquiry, is all.

Nonetheless, far be it from me to want to suppress your posting. Carry on . . . :welcome:

-----

BroncoJoe
02-05-2012, 05:11 PM
Whatever his resume is, and if he posted it, you all would just doubt/question it anyway.

topscribe
02-05-2012, 05:18 PM
ABSOLUTELY.

Not only does it make 11v11 football and level the playing field more, but it creates SEVERAL huge offensive advantages:

1. Multi-dimensional offense. You've heard of taking away the passing or running game to make an opposing offense "one dimensional", but what do you do when the running game itself is multidimensional? The reaction time from the snap to the potential hand off is nill for a defensive player and breaks them down to assignment football (player x responsible for player y). If a team designs to remove a Ray Rice from Baltimore, they put the game on Joe Flacco's arm. If a team designs to remove McGahee from Denver, Tim can run rampant.

2. More than 11 v 11: Tim's run ability and that multi-dimensional rushing game usually translates into at LEAST the weakside DE playing contain (often BOTH DE's), which dramatically slows the pass rush as they're now taking away rushing lanes instead of trying to apply quick pressure. We also generally see 1-2 LBs playing "spy", which opens up coverage seams even more (ref: Miami deep throw to Fells, both TDs @ Oakland, etc).

3. Size advantage. Going "spread" will bring dime packages out from opposing defenses. More DBs will = better coverage, better speed, but smaller... something a massive player like Tebow can run rough-shod on (heck, we've even seen Aaron Rogers run crazy on defenses thanks to spreads).

Let me know if you want more details towards any of these.


Whatever his resume is, and if he posted it, you all would just doubt/question it anyway.

Not necessarily. I thought this response of his was pretty decent, and I don't
see anyone doubting it yet . . .

-----

BroncoWave
02-05-2012, 05:21 PM
Whatever his resume is, and if he posted it, you all would just doubt/question it anyway.

Not really. His posts seem pretty insightful. Just wondering if he is a coach or something.

BroncoJoe
02-05-2012, 05:23 PM
Not really. His posts seem pretty insightful. Just wondering if he is a coach or something.

That's a much better way to ask someone, as opposed to the way rc reacted.

topscribe
02-05-2012, 05:24 PM
TR, when a QB's passing ability is somewhat in question but the running game is
strong, could some variation(s) of the "46" defense be effective in this case?

-----

topscribe
02-05-2012, 05:25 PM
That's a much better way to ask someone, as opposed to the way rc reacted.

Yes, we can always improve on someone else's posting, can't we? :coffee:

-----

Dreadnought
02-05-2012, 05:35 PM
That's a much better way to ask someone, as opposed to the way rc reacted.

Agreed. RC started out being pointlessly insulting and abrasive from the git-go. I have no idea why. I wouldn't have answered him either under the circumstances.

BroncoJoe
02-05-2012, 05:37 PM
Yes, we can always improve on someone else's posting, can't we? :coffee:

-----

Unfortunately, no. :coffee:

topscribe
02-05-2012, 05:38 PM
Agreed. RC started out being pointlessly insulting and abrasive from the git-go. I have no idea why. I wouldn't have answered him either under the circumstances.

"I would like to know your football resume." That's how RC started out. Since he
stated it precisely the way I was thinking it, I would describe it as direct, rather
than "insulting and abrasive."

TR's response, "none of your business," would qualify more as abrasive, IMO. It
certainly did seem "defensive."

But then, maybe I'm alone in this . . .

-----

BroncoWave
02-05-2012, 05:40 PM
"I would like to know your football resume." That's how RC started out. Since he
stated it precisely the way I was thinking it, I would describe it as direct, rather
than "insulting and abrasive."

TR's response, "none of your business," would qualify more as abrasive, IMO. It
certainly did seem "defensive."

But then, maybe I'm alone in this . . .

-----

I actually tend to agree, and I almost never agree with you or RC! :lol:

topscribe
02-05-2012, 05:41 PM
I actually tend to agree, and I almost never agree with you or RC! :lol:

Now, don't go getting any ideas . . .

-----

TheReverend
02-05-2012, 11:02 PM
No, I responded to the intended post, the one in which you accused RC of
trolling because he wanted to know the extent of your expertise. I just think
that is a reasonable inquiry, is all.

Nonetheless, far be it from me to want to suppress your posting. Carry on . . . :welcome:

-----

No, I accused him of trying to troll me in this post:

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1542430&postcount=12

Not for asking for any qualifications.

And yes, I just don't think it's anyone's business. I have nothing to gain by making this thread. People can ask or doubt. When I don't know, I'll be happy to say I don't know. I don't personally think this a big deal whatsoever, but to each their own haha

TheReverend
02-05-2012, 11:06 PM
TR, when a QB's passing ability is somewhat in question but the running game is
strong, could some variation(s) of the "46" defense be effective in this case?

-----

In this day and age of football, a defense with a box safety (pinches the gaps for the standard front seven and allows more crashing in gaps instead of read and react) is basically employing a 46 package. In a traditional 46 the CBs are counted as two of the LBs and will press contain on the edge of the box in run support (much like modern cover 2 corners will).

Scheming towards a QB "who's passing ability is somewhat in question but the running game is strong" will move a package of a box safety to the forefront. The pinched gaps from the box safety, along with pressed contain from the CBs on the outside edge is precisely what a 46 was invented and implemented to do.

cuzz4169
02-06-2012, 02:39 PM
He will show himself as a fraud if he is one. just bc his defensive philosophy could be different than mine or anyone else's doesn't mean he's wrong. But to answer basic questions and answer correctly is fine why question his resume? Don't ask if you don't think he's legit. Or just ask me lol.

cuzz4169
02-06-2012, 02:42 PM
And sorry I just read his answer to defending the spread. Good answer no problem with it. My resume jiffy oil lube expert!!! Lol jk

BroncoNut
02-06-2012, 03:01 PM
why is everyone talking about me?

topscribe
02-06-2012, 04:04 PM
why is everyone talking about me?

Xv3QNWyjRQg

-----

BroncoNut
02-06-2012, 04:14 PM
Xv3QNWyjRQg

-----

well, Iirc, the thread was entitled something like ask anything defensively. I thought that is what i did

TheReverend
02-06-2012, 04:15 PM
well, Iirc, the thread was entitled something like ask anything defensively. I thought that is what i did

Not gonna lie, I lol'd.

rcsodak
02-06-2012, 05:26 PM
Agreed. RC started out being pointlessly insulting and abrasive from the git-go. I have no idea why. I wouldn't have answered him either under the circumstances.

Oh yeah..you got it, naught. Asking someone why their opine is anymore credible than mine is SOOOOOOOO, umm, howd you so eloquently put it...."pointlessly insulting and abrasive".

LMAO!

How is this: "I would like to know your football resume.

Tia ", that?

:lol:

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rcsodak
02-06-2012, 05:37 PM
I actually tend to agree, and I almost never agree with you or RC! :lol:

...there was this time....... :D

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TheReverend
02-06-2012, 05:53 PM
Oh yeah..you got it, naught. Asking someone why their opine is anymore credible than mine is SOOOOOOOO, umm, howd you so eloquently put it...."pointlessly insulting and abrasive".

LMAO!

How is this: "I would like to know your football resume.

Tia ", that?

:lol:

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...but I didn't claim my "opine" is more credible than yours. If that's what you inferred from me offering to answer people's questions about the sport's defenses, then that sounds like your issue, not mine.

CoachChaz
02-06-2012, 07:04 PM
I think its the way you come across with it. I understand everything you are explaining based on my previous experience...but its almost as if though your explanations reek of an "im smarter and better than you" attitude.

Just my opinion.

The short answer for those that care to understand defenses in depth...buy a book. Pat Kirwan just released a good one

cuzz4169
02-07-2012, 04:29 AM
If you don't like don't read his thread. Pretty simple if you ask me.

rcsodak
02-07-2012, 09:04 AM
I think its the way you come across with it. I understand everything you are explaining based on my previous experience...but its almost as if though your explanations reek of an "im smarter and better than you" attitude.

Just my opinion.

The short answer for those that care to understand defenses in depth...buy a book. Pat Kirwan just released a good one

Yes. Thank you. And i'll listen to you allll day, coach. ;')

"Take Your Eyes off the Ball". Definitely want to get that book.

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TheReverend
02-07-2012, 09:43 AM
If you don't like don't read his thread. Pretty simple if you ask me.

/shrug

It's here if anyone wants to use it as opposed to inferring text in anyway that hurts their self-esteem lol

topscribe
02-07-2012, 10:11 AM
Okay, well I think we've worked this thing about Rev over pretty good. It just
may be that he does have some things to contribute in this thread. If we get
too worked up about credentials, then the ego problem can end up being our
own.


TR, when defending Denver, I do think I would be more concerned about
McGahee than Tebow. When Tebow runs, he turns into a FB -- a very good
one, admittedly, but a FB nonetheless. It seems the old split T kind of deal,
doesn't it?

My concern about Tebow is to keep him contained on the edges of the
pocket and not let him get outside on passing downs.

So on running downs, make Tebow beat me, and on passing downs, make
him do it from the pocket. Does that make sense?

-----

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 10:29 AM
Okay, well I think we've worked this thing about Rev over pretty good. I just
may be that he does have some things to contribute in this thread. If we get
too worked up about credentials, then the ego problem can end up being our
own.


TR, when defending Denver, I do think I would be more concerned about
McGahee than Tebow. When Tebow runs, he turns into a FB -- a very good
one, admittedly, but a FB nonetheless. It seems the old split T kind of deal,
doesn't it?

My concern about Tebow is to keep him contained on the edges of the
pocket and not let him get outside on passing downs.

So on running downs, make Tebow beat me, and on passing downs, make
him do it from the pocket. Does that make sense?

-----

Reference this part of post #3 in this thread:


2. More than 11 v 11: Tim's run ability and that multi-dimensional rushing game usually translates into at LEAST the weakside DE playing contain (often BOTH DE's), which dramatically slows the pass rush as they're now taking away rushing lanes instead of trying to apply quick pressure. We also generally see 1-2 LBs playing "spy", which opens up coverage seams even more (ref: Miami deep throw to Fells, both TDs @ Oakland, etc).

topscribe
02-07-2012, 10:50 AM
So how would you rank the respective defensive positions, overall? I.e., the
Giants seem to think you put the studs on the line first and worry about the
secondary afterward.

-----

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 11:02 AM
So how would you rank the respective defensive positions, overall? I.e., the
Giants seem to think you put the studs on the line first and worry about the
secondary afterward.

-----

Well your example is wrong, first of all. Just because the Giants DL is superior to their secondary hardly displays how they prioritize the units.

In the Tom Coughlin era they've invested 4 first round picks in DBs (Aaron Ross, Corey Webster, Prince Amukamara and Kenny Phillips), versus 2 (and that's giving the benefit of the doubt by counting Kiwi who plays OLB now) on the DL (JPP and Kiwi).

That being said, "ranking" positions is silly. A defense is extremely symbiotic and you take a game changer where you can get them regardless of position.

A CB can impact the run game and passing game outside of their direct impact by improving coverage and allowing an 8th man in the box or an extra blitzer for pressure etc.

A DE can directly impact the coverage and run game by collapsing the pocket sooner or setting the edge or simply making the play.

So I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I don't care who or where they play, as long as they can play.

rcsodak
02-07-2012, 01:11 PM
I'm more in Top's world of thinking. Didnt the NYG invest more on their DL, just in the last few yrs, than those 4 you listed?

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TheReverend
02-07-2012, 01:18 PM
I'm more in Top's world of thinking. Didnt the NYG invest more on their DL, just in the last few yrs, than those 4 you listed?

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...in what way?

Through Coughlin's tenure the only FA DL they've made a priority has been Chris Canty. Meanwhile they let a great player like Cofield walk and Osi's still waiting for a new contract.

As far as the draft is concerned, secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks, and Antrell Rolle was just as big of a FA splash as Canty was.

So I have no idea where you're getting this "Giants build DL first and secondary is an afterthought" concept outside of performance. Their DL wins their matchups and gets the attention they deserve, but they've been fighting every bit as hard (if not more) to field a dominant secondary.

slim
02-07-2012, 01:26 PM
Well your example is wrong, first of all. Just because the Giants DL is superior to their secondary hardly displays how they prioritize the units.

In the Tom Coughlin era they've invested 4 first round picks in DBs (Aaron Ross, Corey Webster, Prince Amukamara and Kenny Phillips), versus 2 (and that's giving the benefit of the doubt by counting Kiwi who plays OLB now) on the DL (JPP and Kiwi).

That being said, "ranking" positions is silly. A defense is extremely symbiotic and you take a game changer where you can get them regardless of position.

A CB can impact the run game and passing game outside of their direct impact by improving coverage and allowing an 8th man in the box or an extra blitzer for pressure etc.

A DE can directly impact the coverage and run game by collapsing the pocket sooner or setting the edge or simply making the play.

So I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I don't care who or where they play, as long as they can play.

Corey Webster was a second round pick. So, they have taken 3 DB in the first and 2 DL. Not really a statement on prioritization either way.

slim
02-07-2012, 01:33 PM
...in what way?

Through Coughlin's tenure the only FA DL they've made a priority has been Chris Canty. Meanwhile they let a great player like Cofield walk and Osi's still waiting for a new contract.

As far as the draft is concerned, secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks, and Antrell Rolle was just as big of a FA splash as Canty was.

So I have no idea where you're getting this "Giants build DL first and secondary is an afterthought" concept outside of performance. Their DL wins their matchups and gets the attention they deserve, but they've been fighting every bit as hard (if not more) to field a dominant secondary.

They have also used 2nd round picks on Tuck, Joseph, and Austin. So first round picks on JPP and Kiwanuka, second round picks on Tuck, Joseph and Austin. To say the secondary has been a MUCH higher priority is a little silly.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot Osi (2nd) and William Joseph (1st)

slim
02-07-2012, 01:48 PM
If you guys have any more questions about NYG personnel moves or anything, just let me know.

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 02:04 PM
Corey Webster was a second round pick. So, they have taken 3 DB in the first and 2 DL. Not really a statement on prioritization either way.


If you guys have any more questions about NYG personnel moves or anything, just let me know.


They have also used 2nd round picks on Tuck, Joseph, and Austin. So first round picks on JPP and Kiwanuka, second round picks on Tuck, Joseph and Austin. To say the secondary has been a MUCH higher priority is a little silly.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot Osi (2nd) and William Joseph (1st)

Corey Webster WAS a 2nd round pick, you're right there.

Tuck wasn't. Tuck was a 3rd round pick... behind Webster in fact.

And Osi was drafted before Tom Coughlin and before GM Jerry Reese.

And if you want to start including these 2nd round picks, sure:

First or second round DL:

Kiwi 2006 (being generous including him)
JPP 2010
Linval Joseph 2010
Marvin Austin 2011

First or second round Secondary selections:

Corey Webster 2005
Aaron Ross 2007
Kenny Phillips 2008
Terrell Thomas 2008
Prince Amukamara 2011

Nice try, but like I said, hardly a DL emphasis.

CoachChaz
02-07-2012, 02:55 PM
...in what way?

Through Coughlin's tenure the only FA DL they've made a priority has been Chris Canty. Meanwhile they let a great player like Cofield walk and Osi's still waiting for a new contract.

As far as the draft is concerned, secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks, and Antrell Rolle was just as big of a FA splash as Canty was.

So I have no idea where you're getting this "Giants build DL first and secondary is an afterthought" concept outside of performance. Their DL wins their matchups and gets the attention they deserve, but they've been fighting every bit as hard (if not more) to field a dominant secondary.


Rocky Bernard...Jimmy Kennedy. Maybe not top priority choices, but targets nonetheless.

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 03:07 PM
Rocky Bernard...Jimmy Kennedy. Maybe not top priority choices, but targets nonetheless.

Brian Witherspoon, Deon Grant, Will Blackmon, etc.

What's your point?

CoachChaz
02-07-2012, 03:26 PM
Brian Witherspoon, Deon Grant, Will Blackmon, etc.

What's your point?

You said Canty was the only FA DL target. I added 2 to the list. I thought my point was pretty obvious, Mr. Ego.

slim
02-07-2012, 03:34 PM
Corey Webster WAS a 2nd round pick, you're right there.

Tuck wasn't. Tuck was a 3rd round pick... behind Webster in fact.

And Osi was drafted before Tom Coughlin and before GM Jerry Reese.

And if you want to start including these 2nd round picks, sure:

First or second round DL:

Kiwi 2006 (being generous including him)
JPP 2010
Linval Joseph 2010
Marvin Austin 2011

First or second round Secondary selections:

Corey Webster 2005
Aaron Ross 2007
Kenny Phillips 2008
Terrell Thomas 2008
Prince Amukamara 2011

Nice try, but like I said, hardly a DL emphasis.

I never said they emphasised DL in the draft. Only pointing out that your statement "the secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks" is not really accurate. Any reasonable person can see that is not true.

CoachChaz
02-07-2012, 03:38 PM
I never said they emphasised DL in the draft. Only pointing out that your statement "the secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks" is not really accurate. Any reasonable person can see that is not true.

Never argue with a know-it-all. It only gives you gray hair

slim
02-07-2012, 03:39 PM
Never argue with a know-it-all. It only gives you gray hair

I already have gray hair, but I think your point still stands.

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 03:51 PM
I never said they emphasised DL in the draft. Only pointing out that your statement "the secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks" is not really accurate. Any reasonable person can see that is not true.

But it has been... By all means, look at the wealth of investment placed in each position. This only becomes MORE dramatic if you look at the recent under Jerry Reese (2007+).

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3410&type=team

You're the one who came in here on a 3 post rant claiming there were factual errors all the while clearly not researching your own claims or placing them in any type of context.


Never argue with a know-it-all. It only gives you gray hair

This might mean something if it didn't come off the heels of people trying to wrongly nitpick a factual footnote within a post. Good luck with that though...

If you guys want to start a NYG discussion thread, let's go for it.

CoachChaz
02-07-2012, 04:42 PM
But it has been... By all means, look at the wealth of investment placed in each position. This only becomes MORE dramatic if you look at the recent under Jerry Reese (2007+).

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3410&type=team

You're the one who came in here on a 3 post rant claiming there were factual errors all the while clearly not researching your own claims or placing them in any type of context.



This might mean something if it didn't come off the heels of people trying to wrongly nitpick a factual footnote within a post. Good luck with that though...

If you guys want to start a NYG discussion thread, let's go for it.


Again with the "i know more than you do" attitude.

I'm fairly well versed on the Giants. A buddy I use to scout high schools with works as a scout for them now. I think there is a pic somewhere in the pictures of me thread wearing his SB ring from 07. I get a little bit of inside info on them from time to time and he damn sure talks about his team a lot.

But despite my knowledge of the Giants...I just dont like you and your smart-ass enough to have any desire to maintain a conversation with you about anything. Call it a cop out, but I call it stress avoidance

Northman
02-07-2012, 04:56 PM
Lol, poor Rev. He's a good guy. Cant believe people are giving him such a hard time.

topscribe
02-07-2012, 05:06 PM
Lol, poor Rev. He's a good guy. Cant believe people are giving him such a hard time.

Some of the "new" people are left alone. But the ones we expect to amount to
much have to go through a baptismal ceremony. :D

-----

Northman
02-07-2012, 05:07 PM
Some of the "new" people are left alone. But the ones we expect to amount to
much have to go through a baptismal ceremony. :D

-----

Apparently.

Rev can handle it though, he's been through the fire over at the Mane so its not new territory for him. :lol:

topscribe
02-07-2012, 05:11 PM
Apparently.

Rev can handle it though, he's been through the fire over at the Mane so its not new territory for him. :lol:

I was wondering whether he was the same Rev from the Mane.

With all the Freaks and Maniacs here, we need more representation from the Mane.

-----

catfish
02-07-2012, 05:14 PM
so far Rev's biggest failing is trying to use logic. He needs to put his fingers in his ears and scream at the top of his lungs like everyone else

Northman
02-07-2012, 05:15 PM
I was wondering whether he was the same Rev from the Mane.

With all the Freaks and Maniacs here, we need more representation from the Mane.

-----

Agreed. There are a lot of good posters over there. I wish Kaylore would spend more time here too.

Northman
02-07-2012, 05:16 PM
so far Rev's biggest failing is trying to use logic. He needs to put his fingers in his ears and scream at the top of his lungs like everyone else

I keep trying to teach him that trick but he wont listen. Go figure.

catfish
02-07-2012, 05:18 PM
I keep trying to teach him that trick but he wont listen. Go figure.

Some are just slow on the uptake, ohh well they can't all be legendary posters like us

Slick
02-07-2012, 05:21 PM
Rev, what's your opinion on Champ playing safety?

topscribe
02-07-2012, 05:26 PM
Rev, what's your opinion on Champ playing safety?

I've been wondering the same thing. In Champ, the Broncos have close to the
best and smartest athlete on the team, and speed coming out of his ears. That,
to me, defines the free safety. So what is your opinion, TR?

-----

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 05:29 PM
Again with the "i know more than you do" attitude.

I'm fairly well versed on the Giants. A buddy I use to scout high schools with works as a scout for them now. I think there is a pic somewhere in the pictures of me thread wearing his SB ring from 07. I get a little bit of inside info on them from time to time and he damn sure talks about his team a lot.

But despite my knowledge of the Giants...I just dont like you and your smart-ass enough to have any desire to maintain a conversation with you about anything. Call it a cop out, but I call it stress avoidance

No... not really.

Here's the reality: I made a thread to answer questions and that's exactly what I've been doing.

You, on the other hand, have ONLY made negative contributions toward the thread, trolling myself and derailing topics on miniscule nitpicks that are actually factually incorrect as I've displayed already.

So, ask a question, try to argue a point I've made or ****.

Pick one. You're the one acting like a jerk off and crying because your "contributions" (or lack thereof) have been shown to be flat out wrong.

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 05:30 PM
Agreed. There are a lot of good posters over there. I wish Kaylore would spend more time here too.

Eventually word will get out that I'm hanging out here more and you'll probably get some more of those guys visiting, I assume.

The only thing I'll miss is doing the podcasts. We had some fun doing those this year.

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 05:36 PM
Rev, what's your opinion on Champ playing safety?


I've been wondering the same thing. In Champ, the Broncos have close to the
best and smartest athlete on the team, and speed coming out of his ears. That,
to me, defines the free safety. So what is your opinion, TR?

-----

Great question, albeit an opinion one: It's going to be interesting to watch over the next few years, for sure.

He still has a great amount of speed and plays the game even smarter than ever.

That being said, we're certainly seeing noticeable deterioration. Part of that was the emphasis on more man coverage than we've played since Champ was a puppy in the league, and partly because he's still being relied on to be "the man" while the team rolls coverage away from Champ and towards Goodman's impotent self.

I think Champ can be a very effective starting CB in this league for a good 2 more seasons. That being said, this is predicated on revamping the depth at CB. We can't expect for Champ to play well with so much stress placed on his coverage ability as he ages and the opposition gets younger, faster and bigger. We NEED another hyper talented young corner to help start taking the load off his shoulders at RCB.

Otherwise I think with his tackling ability, mental recognition and ability to play the ball he'll not only make a standout safety when the time comes, but one that can be aggressively schemed to play many diverse roles all over the field.

What do you guys think?

CoachChaz
02-07-2012, 05:46 PM
No... not really.

Here's the reality: I made a thread to answer questions and that's exactly what I've been doing.

You, on the other hand, have ONLY made negative contributions toward the thread, trolling myself and derailing topics on miniscule nitpicks that are actually factually incorrect as I've displayed already.

So, ask a question, try to argue a point I've made or ****.

Pick one. You're the one acting like a jerk off and crying because your "contributions" (or lack thereof) have been shown to be flat out wrong.

Interesting. All I've done is stated that your persona comes across as being better than everyone else. If that's crying and acting like a jerk-off...so be it. Your opinion holds as much value as anyone else's, I suppose. I'm not the only one that seems to have garnered that opinion, so I'll assume there is at least a little truth to it, while not caring what reputation you bring with you from another site.

Opposite of that, you stated Canty was the only DL FA the Giants have signed. My response was that they signed Bernard and Kennedy as well. Nothing more...nothing less. You responded with a list of random players and asked what my point was and I stated it.

So, I ask you dear sir. If you believe Canty was the only targeted FA DL of the Giants...and Bernard and Kennedy are on their roster, but weren't drafted by them...where exactly was I "flat out wrong?"

topscribe
02-07-2012, 05:47 PM
Great question, albeit an opinion one: It's going to be interesting to watch over the next few years, for sure.

He still has a great amount of speed and plays the game even smarter than ever.

That being said, we're certainly seeing noticeable deterioration. Part of that was the emphasis on more man coverage than we've played since Champ was a puppy in the league, and partly because he's still being relied on to be "the man" while the team rolls coverage away from Champ and towards Goodman's impotent self.

I think Champ can be a very effective starting CB in this league for a good 2 more seasons. That being said, this is predicated on revamping the depth at CB. We can't expect for Champ to play well with so much stress placed on his coverage ability as he ages and the opposition gets younger, faster and bigger. We NEED another hyper talented young corner to help start taking the load off his shoulders at RCB.

Otherwise I think with his tackling ability, mental recognition and ability to play the ball he'll not only make a standout safety when the time comes, but one that can be aggressively schemed to play many diverse roles all over the field.

What do you guys think?

I personally think it is wasted talent to have a guy cover one receiver and/or
one side of the field. Champ has it all: smarts, coverage ability, tackling ability,
speed . . . I believe he would be much more valuable as a guy who covers
the entire field and the entire other team, which is essentially what a FS does,
isn't it?.

-----

slim
02-07-2012, 05:55 PM
But it has been... By all means, look at the wealth of investment placed in each position. This only becomes MORE dramatic if you look at the recent under Jerry Reese (2007+).

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3410&type=team

You're the one who came in here on a 3 post rant claiming there were factual errors all the while clearly not researching your own claims or placing them in any type of context.


Well, you can continue to claim that the NYG place a MUCH higher premium on DBs than they do DL, but you are clearly wrong. It appears that they value those respective positions roughly equally. Is all of this nitpicking? I don't know. I suppose no more than you nit picking the the DL/DB question in the first place.

Also, I was wrong about Tuck. I "failed to research my claims", I guess. Of course, the same can be said about you (in regards to Webster).

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 06:31 PM
So, I ask you dear sir. If you believe Canty was the only targeted FA DL of the Giants...and Bernard and Kennedy are on their roster, but weren't drafted by them...where exactly was I "flat out wrong?"

Literacy is fundamental. I said the only FA that they made a priority. For example, Kennedy only even PLAYED 6 games this past season. I also countered that post with an even longer list of FA DBs.

So in conclusion, I'm going to ignore your posts in this thread and those like it until they once again become relevant.

Have a good day.

TheReverend
02-07-2012, 06:34 PM
I personally think it is wasted talent to have a guy cover one receiver and/or
one side of the field. Champ has it all: smarts, coverage ability, tackling ability,
speed . . . I believe he would be much more valuable as a guy who covers
the entire field and the entire other team, which is essentially what a FS does,
isn't it?.

-----

I do disagree. The impact a CB with Champs ability has impacts every where on the field. Reference my post earlier when you asked me to prioritize positions. A Revis, for example, can have coverage rolled away from him, allow for an extra blitzer and pinch run gaps.

That being said, you may be right that as his athletic skills regress with age that he'd be more of an impact player at the S spot, but that's still just speculation until we at least see it in small doses.

jhns
02-08-2012, 12:54 PM
Eventually word will get out that I'm hanging out here more and you'll probably get some more of those guys visiting, I assume.

The only thing I'll miss is doing the podcasts. We had some fun doing those this year.

So are you gone for good, or just not doing podcasts? You and Montrose were the only two worth listening to.

And LOL at the reception here. People complaining as they display the same behavior they are complaining about.

topscribe
02-08-2012, 01:30 PM
I do disagree. The impact a CB with Champs ability has impacts every where on the field. Reference my post earlier when you asked me to prioritize positions. A Revis, for example, can have coverage rolled away from him, allow for an extra blitzer and pinch run gaps.

That being said, you may be right that as his athletic skills regress with age that he'd be more of an impact player at the S spot, but that's still just speculation until we at least see it in small doses.

I appreciate that, and it makes sense. However, I see how much difference
Polamalu and Reed difference make for their respective teams, how much
Sanders made for the Colts, and how much Lynch made and Dawkins makes
now for the Broncos. I don't know . . . if I'm given the choice between an
all-world CB and all-world safety, I'll take the safety.

That's why, if the Broncos can find a solid replacement at CB, I'd be all for
trying Champ at safety, whether or not his skills are deteriorating. IMHO.

-----

TheReverend
02-08-2012, 02:01 PM
So are you gone for good, or just not doing podcasts? You and Montrose were the only two worth listening to.

And LOL at the reception here. People complaining as they display the same behavior they are complaining about.

I'm not sure. I'll probably still do the mock draft over there but I think I'm done with contributions.


I appreciate that, and it makes sense. However, I see how much difference
Polamalu and Reed difference make for their respective teams, how much
Sanders made for the Colts, and how much Lynch made and Dawkins makes
now for the Broncos. I don't know . . . if I'm given the choice between an
all-world CB and all-world safety, I'll take the safety.

That's why, if the Broncos can find a solid replacement at CB, I'd be all for
trying Champ at safety, whether or not his skills are deteriorating. IMHO.

-----

I think you should step back and re-examine what you're saying.

OF COURSE Hall of Famers made massive impacts for their teams, and everyone you referenced is precisely that (outside of Bob Sanders). They've made no more impact than other modern hall of famers at the CB spot (Champ, Woodson, Revis, Deion, etc) to their respective units though.

Also, if you look at how GMs pay positions as an indicator of value, CB is paid more handsomely than S.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 09:57 AM
Just read a few of the later posts, but this looks like a great thread. Know-it-alls are fun to mess with. irl, I like to interrupt them with questions and watch their faces get agitated

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 10:00 AM
No... not really.

Here's the reality: I made a thread to answer questions and that's exactly what I've been doing.

You, on the other hand, have ONLY made negative contributions toward the thread, trolling myself and derailing topics on miniscule nitpicks that are actually factually incorrect as I've displayed already.

So, ask a question, try to argue a point I've made or ****.

Pick one. You're the one acting like a jerk off and crying because your "contributions" (or lack thereof) have been shown to be flat out wrong.

that is not very reverent Reverand

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 10:12 AM
Just read a few of the later posts, but this looks like a great thread. Know-it-alls are fun to mess with. irl, I like to interrupt them with questions and watch their faces get agitated

"life troll" indeed

claymore
02-14-2012, 10:31 AM
Interesting. All I've done is stated that your persona comes across as being better than everyone else. If that's crying and acting like a jerk-off...so be it. Your opinion holds as much value as anyone else's, I suppose. I'm not the only one that seems to have garnered that opinion, so I'll assume there is at least a little truth to it, while not caring what reputation you bring with you from another site.

Opposite of that, you stated Canty was the only DL FA the Giants have signed. My response was that they signed Bernard and Kennedy as well. Nothing more...nothing less. You responded with a list of random players and asked what my point was and I stated it.

So, I ask you dear sir. If you believe Canty was the only targeted FA DL of the Giants...and Bernard and Kennedy are on their roster, but weren't drafted by them...where exactly was I "flat out wrong?"

Dont waste your time he is a DB.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 10:32 AM
"life troll" indeed

better than being a life douchebag like yourself

topscribe
02-14-2012, 10:41 AM
I personally can't see anythilng wrong that Rev did. Let's all back up,
examine ourselves, and understand we are a group of people with our own
faults. A little more patience and tolerance, please. (This goes for me, too.)

-----

catfish
02-14-2012, 10:45 AM
Not to jump in the middle, but he did give a pretty thourough response to my questions.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 10:49 AM
I personally can't see anythilng wrong that Rev did. Let's all back up,
examine ourselves, and understand we are a group of people with our own
faults. A little more patience and tolerance, please. (This goes for me, too.)

-----
I didn't see where the Reverend did anything wrong either Top. I haven't really read his posts though.

claymore
02-14-2012, 10:53 AM
I personally can't see anythilng wrong that Rev did. Let's all back up,
examine ourselves, and understand we are a group of people with our own
faults. A little more patience and tolerance, please. (This goes for me, too.)

-----

His posts come across as condescending. When he is proven wrong he becomes a dick.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 10:55 AM
His posts come across as condescending. When he is proven wrong he becomes a dick.

really?

topscribe
02-14-2012, 10:59 AM
His posts come across as condescending. When he is proven wrong he becomes a dick.

I haven't really seen him proven wrong. I've seen him challenged and
disagreed with, and then he responds. I disagreed with him, and I had no
problem with his response.

We all can be interpreted as condescending at times, methinks. That's just
our nature. Sometilmes, I think that "man" and "horse's ass" are sometimes
synonymous. :sad:

-----

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 11:03 AM
I haven't really seen him proven wrong. I've seen him challenged and
disagreed with, and then he responds. I disagreed with him, and I had no
problem with his response.

We all can be interpreted as condescending at times, methinks. That's just
our nature. Sometilmes, I think that "man" and "horse's ass" are sometimes
synonymous. :sad:

-----

talk aboiut condescending. I love you Top, but you are arrogant as shit

topscribe
02-14-2012, 11:06 AM
talk aboiut condescending. I love you Top, but you are arrogant as shit

Why, thanks! http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 11:07 AM
Why, thanks! http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

for loving you despite your faults? no problem buddy

topscribe
02-14-2012, 11:19 AM
for loving you despite your faults? no problem buddy

Eh, you think that's hard for you. My wife and daughter know allllll my
warts and wrinkles. For the life of me, I can't understand why they still
have anything to do with me. :sad:

-----

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 11:22 AM
Eh, you think that's hard for you. My wife and daughter know allllll my
warts and wrinkles. For the life of me, I can't understand why they still
have anything to do with me. :sad:

-----

I can't either. But they probably act that way because they are trying to get into heaven

topscribe
02-14-2012, 11:25 AM
Well, enough (too much, actually) about me. :focus:

-----

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 11:26 AM
Well, enough about me. :focus:

-----

not enough about you.

claymore
02-14-2012, 11:27 AM
Eh, you think that's hard for you. My wife and daughter know allllll my
warts and wrinkles. For the life of me, I can't understand why they still
have anything to do with me. :sad:

-----

Topcrotch, you are a good guy. Dont sell yourself short.

Kyle Orton sucks.

topscribe
02-14-2012, 11:27 AM
not enough about you.

You worry me, Nut.

-----

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 11:37 AM
You worry me, Nut.

-----

Don't worry. im full of a lot of BS.

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 12:13 PM
better than being a life douchebag like yourself

lol you're spending valentines day trolling and jacking a helpful. That tells me exactly who the DB is.

Also, if that's you in your avy pic, then my supposition that you're a douchebag gets doubly confirmed.


His posts come across as condescending. When he is proven wrong he becomes a dick.

Have to be proven wrong first. Would be thrilled if you could link when that happened.

You give Skeletor a bad name :/

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 12:30 PM
lol you're spending valentines day trolling and jacking a helpful. That tells me exactly who the DB is.

Also, if that's you in your avy pic, then my supposition that you're a douchebag gets doubly confirmed.



Have to be proven wrong first. Would be thrilled if you could link when that happened.

You give Skeletor a bad name :/

So you actually recognize valentine's day? you're not only a douchebag but a complete dork too

that's my nephew in my avy. ballsy of you. say that to my face and I'll straighten your shit out real quick *******

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 12:35 PM
So you actually recognize valentine's day? you're not only a douchebag but a complete dork too

that's my nephew in my avy. ballsy of you. say that to my face and I'll straighten your shit out real quick *******

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

I like how you don't even bother masking your blatant insecurities.

20k posts in 4 years on the forum of a sport you clearly don't even understand fundamentals of with the nerve to call me a "complete dork" for having a woman worth a shit. Now that's impressive

:welcome:

claymore
02-14-2012, 12:38 PM
lol you're spending valentines day trolling and jacking a helpful. That tells me exactly who the DB is.

Also, if that's you in your avy pic, then my supposition that you're a douchebag gets doubly confirmed.



Have to be proven wrong first. Would be thrilled if you could link when that happened.

You give Skeletor a bad name :/

Already did. Your head is to fat for you to ever admit it.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 12:38 PM
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

I like how you don't even bother masking your blatant insecurities.

20k posts in 4 years on the forum of a sport you clearly don't even understand fundamentals of... now that's impressive

:welcome:

oh brother. I'm a troll. I'll admit it. I don't remember us having a conversation on football at all. nice use of the insecurity card by the way :rolleyes: oh, and the :wlecome: avy. say shit on my nephew to my face and I WILL kick your ass tough football guy

claymore
02-14-2012, 12:40 PM
oh brother. I'm a troll. I'll admit it. I don't remember us having a conversation on football at all. nice use of the insecurity card by the way :rolleyes: oh, and the :wlecome: avy. say shit on my nephew to my face and I WILL kick your ass tough football guy

Settle down Nut. You dont need to use your Karate on this guy.

underrated29
02-14-2012, 12:40 PM
:popcorn:

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 12:41 PM
I want a piece of this faggot UR.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 12:42 PM
Settle down Nut. You dont need to use your Karate on this guy.

I thought I asked you to keep that on the lowdown Clay. the advanced martial arts training and all

underrated29
02-14-2012, 12:42 PM
I want a piece of this faggot UR.


I like U29 better assface

claymore
02-14-2012, 12:44 PM
I thought I asked you to keep that on the lowdown Clay. the advanced martial arts training and all

****. You know Im bad with things Nut. Sorry dude.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 12:45 PM
****. You know Im bad with things Nut. Sorry dude.

well, let's just move on, and try to remember that next time.

claymore
02-14-2012, 12:47 PM
well, let's just move on, and try to remember that next time.

Since the cat is out of the bag, If you did do a roundhouse on this Jabrone, would you wear sweat pants, or your Wranglers? :drool:

catfish
02-14-2012, 12:49 PM
Since the cat is out of the bag, If you did do a roundhouse on this Jabrone, would you wear sweat pants, or your Wranglers? :drool:

nut does all his ass kicking in these
http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r364/sarahcress/flagpants1jpgw300h400.jpg

claymore
02-14-2012, 12:59 PM
nut does all his ass kicking in these
http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r364/sarahcress/flagpants1jpgw300h400.jpg

I cant see the pick, Are they BA (Bad Ass)?

claymore
02-14-2012, 01:00 PM
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

I like how you don't even bother masking your blatant insecurities.

20k posts in 4 years on the forum of a sport you clearly don't even understand fundamentals of with the nerve to call me a "complete dork" for having a woman worth a shit. Now that's impressive

:welcome:

I dont think people would appreciate you using a picture of Reverand Martin Luther king to support your argument.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 01:01 PM
I thought it was Cleveland actually Clay

claymore
02-14-2012, 01:03 PM
I thought it was Cleveland actually Clay

Thought what was cleveland?

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 01:20 PM
Lol I think you guys should just calm down and reexamine your priorities.

Everytime I get a minute to refresh this a couple pages longer.

What compels a person to bitch about someone offering help? Especially when those who've taken advantage of the opportunity have had nothing but a positive experience.

So whatever your issue is, ask a question if you feel imposed or want to try to expose or whatever your motivation, or if you think I'm stealing your thunder by creating the thread in the first place, why not just offer to help and join in with your own answers to peoples' questions?

Both sound like much more productive responses than spending pages stamping your feet like infants before you've ever even interacted with me, but hey, what do I know lol

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 01:24 PM
Thought what was cleveland?

the pic of the fro

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 01:35 PM
I want a piece of this faggot UR.

Looooool

I like how the guy making the threats also accused the OTHER of being an internet tough guy, then goes into a tirade of listing "martial arts training" all after claiming his little shit fit isn't a direct result of insecurity.

Sounds legit bro. Good luck with that

topscribe
02-14-2012, 01:37 PM
Looooool

I like how the guy making the threats also accused the OTHER of being an internet tough guy, then goes into a tirade of listing "martial arts training" all after claiming his little shit fit isn't a direct result of insecurity.

Sounds legit bro. Good luck with that

Just for the record, it wasn't Nut who brought up the martial arts thingy.

Can we all get back to the topic now? :focus:

-----

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 01:39 PM
I like U29 better assface

...Don't I know you?

MOtorboat
02-14-2012, 01:39 PM
Looooool

I like how the guy making the threats also accused the OTHER of being an internet tough guy, then goes into a tirade of listing "martial arts training" all after claiming his little shit fit isn't a direct result of insecurity.

Sounds legit bro. Good luck with that

lmao

Rev, nut's ******* with you and apparently its working.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 01:40 PM
Looooool

I like how the guy making the threats also accused the OTHER of being an internet tough guy, then goes into a tirade of listing "martial arts training" all after claiming his little shit fit isn't a direct result of insecurity.

Sounds legit bro. Good luck with that

I never threatened you dude. I believe it started with me calling you out as a douchebag and then you making a ripping on a pic of my 11 year old nephew. The comment on me pounding the shit out of you if you made such an insult to my face isn't a threat, it would be a straight up reality. Just the way I roll when it comes to family members, particularly younger ones

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 01:41 PM
lmao

Rev, nut's ******* with you and apparently its working.

I guess I was a little, but not so much anymore.

slim
02-14-2012, 01:42 PM
If you guys have any questions about life or chicks or anything, feel free to ask me.

MOtorboat
02-14-2012, 01:44 PM
If you guys have any questions about life or chicks or anything, feel free to ask me.

What is life like as a fat guy?

topscribe
02-14-2012, 01:44 PM
If you guys have any questions about life or chicks or anything, feel free to ask me.

You mean like baby chicks? My aunt fried some baby chicks for breakfast one time.

I wouldn't eat them . . .

-----

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 01:44 PM
If you guys have any questions about life or chicks or anything, feel free to ask me.

Slim, I used to hate you. Remember that? Now I think you are like one of the coolest posters here.

ummm... on life. what is it all about Slim?

slim
02-14-2012, 01:48 PM
Slim, I used to hate you. Remember that? Now I think you are like one of the coolest posters here.

ummm... on life. what is it all about Slim?

Yeah, I remember how you used to hate me. I am glad you never used your karate on me.

You know Nut, life is pretty simple. Basically just try not to be an ass to others...I think is what it all comes down to.

In other words, maybe try to do the opposite of Rev.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 01:51 PM
Yeah, I remember how you used to hate me. I am glad you never used your karate on me.

You know Nut, life is pretty simple. Basically just try not to be an ass to others...I think is what it all comes down to.

In other words, maybe try to do the opposite of Rev.

i don't know aboiut rev. seems like some people know him. might be Beef going undercover to piss me off, don't think so though.

I think yoiu are probably right. to be of service to humanity and not wasting your time on people that are asses. I've actually been guilty of the latter

topscribe
02-14-2012, 01:52 PM
i don't know aboiut rev. seems like some people know him. might be Beef going undercover to piss me off, don't think so though.

I think yoiu are probably right. to be of service to humanity and not wasting your time on people that are asses. I've actually been guilty of the latter

Rev's from the Mane. He and I tangled a little bit over there.

But he's all right in the long run . . .

-----

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 01:54 PM
Rev's from the Mane. He and I tangled a little bit over there.

But he's all right in the long run . . .

-----

yeah, I noticed that you were kinda swinging from his gina

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 01:55 PM
i don't know aboiut rev. seems like some people know him. might be Beef going undercover to piss me off, don't think so though.

I think yoiu are probably right. to be of service to humanity and not wasting your time on people that are asses. I've actually been guilty of the latter

I think I know what's going on here...

If you're too embarrassed to ask your question publicly because you feel you'll be mocked, you're more than welcome to PM it to me bro.

I got your back.

topscribe
02-14-2012, 01:55 PM
yeah, I noticed that you were kinda swinging from his gina

You know what I told you in the PM, Nut. I was thinking about you . . .

-----

underrated29
02-14-2012, 01:57 PM
Looooool

I like how the guy making the threats also accused the OTHER of being an internet tough guy, then goes into a tirade of listing "martial arts training" all after claiming his little shit fit isn't a direct result of insecurity.

Sounds legit bro. Good luck with that


...Don't I know you?



Rev- it was funny to watch but nut is playing you. Hes not an internet tough guy. Read his rabbit thread to find out the real nut, hes just messing around and since your new its working.

I post at OM sometimes.- mostly draft talk with req and a few others.

slim
02-14-2012, 01:57 PM
i don't know aboiut rev. seems like some people know him. might be Beef going undercover to piss me off, don't think so though.

I think yoiu are probably right. to be of service to humanity and not wasting your time on people that are asses. I've actually been guilty of the latter

I kind of wondered if maybe Rev was really one of the horsemen. You know, just trying to stir things up. I kind of doubt it, though.

I think life is too short to really waste time on the ******** of the world. I kind of don't even bother....unless I am board and just need to amuse myself.

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 01:57 PM
yeah, I noticed that you were kinda swinging from his gina

Topscribe and I have a horrible past, actually

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 01:59 PM
You know what I told you in the PM, Nut. I was thinking about you . . .

-----

I know Top. I know. I went skiing with a guy that was about your age last week. probably a bit younger. we made the 4.5 hour trip both ways together in his Odyssey and bunked together. kinda reminded me of how your probably like. He's 79 years old and still skis. not bad for his age.

oh, but he doesn't masturbate anymore i don't think

topscribe
02-14-2012, 01:59 PM
Topscribe and I have a horrible past, actually

You didn't like Greybeard much, did you? :lol:

But that is exactly what it is . . . the past . . .

-----

jhns
02-14-2012, 02:00 PM
What happened to this forum? Thrre used to be a lot of banning and crying about trolling. It is why I post on the mane. I may need to post here more if this trolling is now acceptable.

underrated29
02-14-2012, 02:02 PM
look.... Jhns is back.


who else is headed over here I wonder?

slim
02-14-2012, 02:02 PM
What gappened to this forum? Thrre used to be a lot of banning and crying about trolling. It is why I post on the mane. I may need to post here more if this trolling is now acceptable.

Yes, trolling is not only accepted, it is encouraged.

Do you want to go troll Buff with me?

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:04 PM
I kind of wondered if maybe Rev was really one of the horsemen. You know, just trying to stir things up. I kind of doubt it, though.

I think life is too short to really waste time on the ******** of the world. I kind of don't even bother....unless I am board and just need to amuse myself.

it's pretty bad to do that. no offense to you or King, but there's a biblical saying that I try to adhere to. it is something like don't throw your pearls to swine

slim
02-14-2012, 02:05 PM
it's pretty bad to do that. no offense to you or King, but there's a biblical saying that I try to adhere to. it is something like don't throw your pearls to swine

I will let someone else take this one.

topscribe
02-14-2012, 02:06 PM
I know Top. I know. I went skiing with a guy that was about your age last week. probably a bit younger. we made the 4.5 hour trip both ways together in his Odyssey and bunked together. kinda reminded me of how your probably like. He's 79 years old and still skis. not bad for his age.

oh, but he doesn't masturbate anymore i don't think

I still ride a road bike, play pool, drink beer, and jam to rock music. :nod:

-----

MOtorboat
02-14-2012, 02:07 PM
I will let someone else take this one.

I don't like being ignored **** munch.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:08 PM
I still ride a road bike, play pool, drink beer, and jam to rock music. :nod:

-----

yes,. and you still masterbate. that is what I was saying. the guy I skiied with doesn't masterbate or do those types of things anymore. but you are probably what , 7-10 years younger than him. maybe more?

topscribe
02-14-2012, 02:10 PM
yes,. and you still masterbate. that is what I was saying. the guy I skiied with doesn't masterbate or do those types of things anymore. but you are probably what , 7-10 years younger than him. maybe more?

What looks to me, Nut, is you can't get your mind off that . . .

-----

slim
02-14-2012, 02:11 PM
I don't like being ignored **** munch.

Say what now?

slim
02-14-2012, 02:12 PM
MO, did you want to troll Buff with me?

You are welcome to join me and jhns.

jhns
02-14-2012, 02:14 PM
Yes, trolling is not only accepted, it is encouraged.

Do you want to go troll Buff with me?

I'm in. I just need to figure out who he is first.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:15 PM
What looks to me, Nut, is you can't get your mind off that . . .

-----

wait a minute. I think I am violating a promise I made yesterday. ok. nevermind. I forgot for a second there. gotta give me some time, I'll get it.

slim
02-14-2012, 02:16 PM
I'm in. I just need to figure out who he is first.

Follow the smell of patchouli and you will find him.

Actually, he may not be around today.

MO, we may have a change in plans. Is Pags here today? We can troll him.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:18 PM
Follow the smell of patchouli and you will find him.

Actually, he may not be around today.

MO, we may have a change in plans. Is Pags here today? We can troll him.

He's here. Just conversed with him. how do you "troll" a person? I don't think I really do that. I just kinda throw bait and see who responds, I guess.

slim
02-14-2012, 02:20 PM
He's here. Just conversed with him. how do you "troll" a person? I don't think I really do that. I just kinda throw bait and see who responds, I guess.

You are a master fisherman, don't try to deny it.

Pags isn't that fun to troll. He is pretty mellow and levelheaded.

We need someone with a temper. Any ideas?

I wish Rex were here.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:25 PM
You are a master fisherman, don't try to deny it.

Pags isn't that fun to troll. He is pretty mellow and levelheaded.

We need someone with a temper. Any ideas?

I wish Rex were here.

second time I heard that today. Rex was great at point. he knew where to throw.

topscribe
02-14-2012, 02:28 PM
wait a minute. I think I am violating a promise I made yesterday. ok. nevermind. I forgot for a second there. gotta give me some time, I'll get it.

Nut, if I ever catch wind that you're having fantasies about me, we're through . . .

-----

claymore
02-14-2012, 02:33 PM
You are a master fisherman, don't try to deny it.

Pags isn't that fun to troll. He is pretty mellow and levelheaded.

We need someone with a temper. Any ideas?

I wish Rex were here.

One of the best days of my life is when me and BG7 trolled rex one day. Man I hope he doesnt read this.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Nut, if I ever catch wind that you're having fantasies about me, we're through . . .

-----

doubt it. would probably be just the beginning of something pretty special. You need to open up your mind man.

slim
02-14-2012, 02:34 PM
One of the best days of my life is when me and BG7 trolled rex one day. Man I hope he doesnt read this.

Operation Rosebud?

That was pretty funny.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:35 PM
One of the best days of my life is when me and BG7 trolled rex one day. Man I hope he doesnt read this.

that's pretty funny. I guess I've trolled with some people. like you and beef I have. Beef's pretty good at engaging. He's got such an easy way about him. Damn, that's an understatement come to think of it.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:37 PM
Operation Rosebud?

That was pretty funny.

Rex was on the ropes there. BG7 (with Clay in her corner apparently) had her way with him for a while.

claymore
02-14-2012, 02:38 PM
Rex was on the ropes there. BG7 (with Clay in her corner apparently) had her way with him for a while.

Her mudflap comment threw me out of the chair onto the floor like bolt of lightning.

topscribe
02-14-2012, 02:39 PM
that's pretty funny. I guess I've trolled with some people. like you and beef I have. Beef's pretty good at engaging. He's got such an easy way about him. Damn, that's an understatement come to think of it.

Well, I hope Beef isn't reading this about your fantasies.

I hear he can get pretty jealous . . .

-----

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:43 PM
Well, I hope Beef isn't reading this about your fantasies.

I hear he can get pretty jealous . . .

-----

beef doesn't give a shit. in regard to my sexual meanderings anyway. He treats me like crap in that regard come to think of it.

topscribe
02-14-2012, 02:46 PM
beef doesn't give a shit. in regard to my sexual meanderings anyway. He treats me like crap in that regard come to think of it.

Care to talk about it?

-----

MOtorboat
02-14-2012, 02:49 PM
MO, did you want to troll Buff with me?

You are welcome to join me and jhns.

I want to, but I'm busy this afternoon...tonight too...

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:50 PM
Care to talk about it?

-----

ah,, it's been so long since we were romantically involved. then I found out who he was. guess I was hoping for more, thought he would change for me ,.. :rolleyes: yadda yadda yadda. just a foolish old man smitten by a younger one. I may be holding onto some remnants there, but no thanks really. not now anyway.

claymore
02-14-2012, 02:50 PM
Care to talk about it?

-----

Nut needs to open up more. Maybe if we made it feel more safe in here. Tell rev to quit being a dik hole.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:52 PM
Nut needs to open up more. Maybe if we made it feel more safe in here. Tell rev to quit being a dik hole.

ah, I should probably apologize to Rev.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:54 PM
Nut needs to open up more. Maybe if we made it feel more safe in here. Tell rev to quit being a dik hole.

I felt kinda sad when he started the Ed Planter series. it was excellent, but I took it kinda to heart that he viewed me that way. Basically as a punching bag for his dick

claymore
02-14-2012, 02:56 PM
ah, I should probably apologize to Rev.

If we learned something ANYTHING from Yardog, its that Real Men hold grudges for a long time.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 02:57 PM
If we learned something ANYTHING from Yardog, its that Real Men hold grudges for a long time.

You know what? I don't think I got to know Yard that well. not you all did

claymore
02-14-2012, 03:03 PM
You know what? I don't think I got to know Yard that well. not you all did

He's a good dude. I keep looking for him on "Swamp People", but I havent seen him yet.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 03:05 PM
He's a good dude. I keep looking for him on "Swamp People", but I havent seen him yet.

is that the redneck fishing/outdoorsy program? If it is, I tuned into it with some LA whitetrash boys fishing the bayou. catfish.

You've met him haven't you? doesn't he have a couple of horses and live in FL? I think he was big on Rottwielers too.

catfish
02-14-2012, 03:43 PM
is that the redneck fishing/outdoorsy program? If it is, I tuned into it with some LA whitetrash boys fishing the bayou. catfish.

You've met him haven't you? doesn't he have a couple of horses and live in FL? I think he was big on Rottwielers too.

an everglades boy?

claymore
02-14-2012, 03:45 PM
is that the redneck fishing/outdoorsy program? If it is, I tuned into it with some LA whitetrash boys fishing the bayou. catfish.

You've met him haven't you? doesn't he have a couple of horses and live in FL? I think he was big on Rottwielers too.

I met him and so has Dread and Beef. Good dude, loves horses, Fam, dogs and Football.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 03:46 PM
an everglades boy?

are you asking me if he is an everglades boy? I don't know how to respond to you sometimes catfish.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 03:47 PM
I met him and so has Dread and Beef. Good dude, loves horses, Fam, dogs and Football.

did Dread go down south to meet you beef and yard? was it you 4? was beef horny?

claymore
02-14-2012, 03:49 PM
did Dread go down south to meet you beef and yard? was it you 4? was beef horny?

Beef was supposed to meet us in Orlandho, but life got in the way. We watched Denver come back and beet the Browns. It was a good game, and I got hammered.

catfish
02-14-2012, 03:51 PM
are you asking me if he is an everglades boy? I don't know how to respond to you sometimes catfish.

since he lives in FL and it was implied he would appear on swamp people the everglades was what came to mind...so yes I was asking if he was from the FL everglades, there are other swamps, but that one is the most infamous here

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 03:52 PM
Beef was supposed to meet us in Orlandho, but life got in the way. We watched Denver come back and beet the Browns. It was a good game, and I got hammered.

I was at that game making out with GEM I believe. was it 2 seasons ago?

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 03:52 PM
since he lives in FL and it was implied he would appear on swamp people the everglades was what came to mind...so yes I was asking if he was from the FL everglades, there are other swamps, but that one is the most infamous here

OIC. well he is from florida so I think that would make him an everglades boy

claymore
02-14-2012, 03:55 PM
since he lives in FL and it was implied he would appear on swamp people the everglades was what came to mind...so yes I was asking if he was from the FL everglades, there are other swamps, but that one is the most infamous here

Hey Cat, He is from N Florida, North to me at least, I think N of Orlando...

MOtorboat
02-14-2012, 03:57 PM
Seriously, slim, WTF?

You don't answer my question, you don't troll buff when I start a thread specifically for that purpose, you don't come to the tailgate...

Give me a reason to give a damn about us.

catfish
02-14-2012, 04:02 PM
Hey Cat, He is from N Florida, North to me at least, I think N of Orlando...

not the glades then, probably Ocala, that is around where they film swamp loggers

Dreadnought
02-14-2012, 04:47 PM
not the glades then, probably Ocala, that is around where they film swamp loggers

He once implied he might chop someone up and feed them to the gators out back, I do remember that. He did say though that hogs are the best way of all to dispose of a corpse with no remnants at all.

I also remember him getting pissed at the bar Clay and I were at because some little pierced up doucherocket in a Che T-shirt in the next table over was being rude to his dad. Yard didn't cotton to that kind of disrespect.

Man that was a good night. Cutler was on fire...

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 04:52 PM
While trolled to the point of no recognition and crazily derailed, this thread has VASTLY exceeded my expectations.

Oh btw, Nut, I got your PM. No need for apologies, bro. And though I was asking specifically for defense related questions, I'll answer yours anyway: The Center is the guy that snaps the ball to the QB.

Better?

BroncoJoe
02-14-2012, 04:53 PM
While trolled to the point of no recognition and crazily derailed, this thread has VASTLY exceeded my expectations.

Oh btw, Nut, I got your PM. No need for apologies, bro. And though I was asking specifically for defense related questions, I'll answer yours anyway: The Center is the guy that snaps the ball to the QB.

Better?

Welcome to the Forums. You'll love your stay here!

I being 100% serious!

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 04:56 PM
Welcome to the Forums. You'll love your stay here!

I being 100% serious!

I'm currently thrilled beyond expectations :)

MOtorboat
02-14-2012, 04:57 PM
I'm currently thrilled beyond expectations :)

Do you like cabana bois?

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 04:58 PM
Do you like cabana bois?

Are you offering...?

MOtorboat
02-14-2012, 05:00 PM
Are you offering...?

Oh my.

CoachChaz
02-14-2012, 05:00 PM
Oh my.

Take it, Mo. Opportunity comes but once in a lifetime.

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 05:03 PM
I enjoy this forum more with each passing moment.

MOtorboat
02-14-2012, 05:06 PM
I enjoy this forum more with each passing moment.

Have you tried The Lounge?

TheReverend
02-14-2012, 05:10 PM
Have you tried The Lounge?

Doubt I want to

underrated29
02-14-2012, 05:13 PM
Doubt I want to



Oh you do. It hurts at first, but then you'll love it. Its the only way to go

weazel
02-14-2012, 05:20 PM
do you believe in UFO's? Yeah I asked it, big whoop you wanna fight about it?

Is that asking defensively enough?

catfish
02-14-2012, 05:39 PM
He once implied he might chop someone up and feed them to the gators out back, I do remember that. He did say though that hogs are the best way of all to dispose of a corpse with no remnants at all.

I also remember him getting pissed at the bar Clay and I were at because some little pierced up doucherocket in a Che T-shirt in the next table over was being rude to his dad. Yard didn't cotton to that kind of disrespect.

Man that was a good night. Cutler was on fire...

that sounds like north florida, ocala to jax. He is right, hogs eat everything even teeth

slim
02-14-2012, 07:07 PM
Seriously, slim, WTF?

You don't answer my question, you don't troll buff when I start a thread specifically for that purpose, you don't come to the tailgate...

Give me a reason to give a damn about us.

Sorry MO. I didn't see your question or the thread you started.

I am too busy today. I still care deeply for you, though.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 08:12 PM
Doubt I want to

oh yeah? I told Rex about you. He's gonna pop in anyday now and shit on that perspective in no time at all.

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 08:13 PM
While trolled to the point of no recognition and crazily derailed, this thread has VASTLY exceeded my expectations.

Oh btw, Nut, I got your PM. No need for apologies, bro. And though I was asking specifically for defense related questions, I'll answer yours anyway: The Center is the guy that snaps the ball to the QB.

Better?

ah, I was being a redneck (no offense Clay). no harm here. thanks for airing my "questions you have but are too afraid to post" though

BeefStew25
02-14-2012, 08:42 PM
Rev,

Can you run a 7 round mock draft centered on defensive players please?

Rex
02-14-2012, 08:48 PM
Rev
Do you ever have the ole lady diddle your O ring whan you are getting busy?

BeefStew25
02-14-2012, 08:50 PM
Rev, why doesn't anyone run a 5-2?

BroncoNut
02-14-2012, 10:55 PM
What looks to me, Nut, is you can't get your mind off that . . .

-----

gotta admit. when beef made that comment about you nutsack swinging all over the place it gave me one of those chronic visiuals. But I don't enjoy it much at all if that puts things at ease for you

chazoe60
02-15-2012, 10:32 AM
This thread is amazing.

MOtorboat
02-15-2012, 10:46 AM
http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/This-Thread-Delivers/1/thread-delivers.jpg
This thread is amazing.

TheReverend
02-15-2012, 11:37 AM
Rev
Do you ever have the ole lady diddle your O ring whan you are getting busy?

Still trying to work her into that



Rev, why doesn't anyone run a 5-2?

The easiest answer to your question is because it evolved into the 34. Getting a layer more complicated, 43 under fronts play even more similarly to the older 52s.

I wrote a post up advocating playing some 52 downs to take advanatage of Miller along with press coverage on the back end a while back that's actually pretty appropriate here. I can link to it when I get home if you'd like.

BeefStew25
02-15-2012, 11:39 AM
Interesting. I need to learn more about defense. I kind of just follow the ball and yell. I need to evolve a bit.

TheReverend
02-15-2012, 11:46 AM
Interesting. I need to learn more about defense. I kind of just follow the ball and yell. I need to evolve a bit.

Like I invited in the other thread, you're more than welcome to catch some games with me anytime and I can try and help if you want. If its a good game though I'm generally just screaming at the tv for McCoy to get AIDs

BeefStew25
02-15-2012, 11:47 AM
Like I invited in the other thread, you're more than welcome to catch some games with me anytime and I can try and help if you want. If its a good game though I'm generally just screaming at the tv for McCoy to get AIDs

Well, I can help you on being more offensive minded. I thrive in that setting.

TheReverend
02-15-2012, 02:05 PM
I wrote a post up advocating playing some 52 downs to take advanatage of Miller along with press coverage on the back end a while back that's actually pretty appropriate here. I can link to it when I get home if you'd like.

The post I was referring to there ^ here:


Bunkley isn't huge but he plays with a great deal of leverage and will excel at any NT 4-3 look. I think retaining him is vital towards improving our defense.

I wrote this up elsewhere and it's what I'd like to us do defensively moving forward:

Please institute this defense at the very least in package looks, but I would prefer it to be the base: create a 43 Double Fan which would obviously be played out of an under front (akin to below only with tighter splits than the 3T DT and 7 DE):

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/08/sports/08fifthdown-eleph/08fifthdown-eleph-blogSpan.jpg

Background:

A double fan classically comes from 34 looks. Essentially it means the DL is going to adjust their splits so they're basically heads up on the opposing IOL (NT over C, DEs over Gs). What makes this a double fan is the pass rushing ability of BOTH 34 OLBs (see Pittsburgh's Harrison and Woodley -- also note the leaps and bounds of improvement of Washington's defense by adding Kerrigan opposite Orakpo and often playing double fans). Both OLBs will them line up over the tackles.
What does this create? One on one match ups across the board. Additionally, blitzing an ILB over the A gaps gives him a STRAIGHT shot at the QB with AT MOST a RB to try and stop him.


Von Miller gives us the freedom to apply this to our 43.

Imagine Elvis, Thomas, Bunkley, Ayers, Miller all one on one against the opposing OL. Getting wood yet? Good, let's go deeper.

Press coverage behind it. Lackluster for turnovers, for sure (at least until the effectiveness starts to embolden to jumping routes and putting 6 on the board with semi-regularity), but provides the rush and blitz another second to get to the QB and will be certain to cause both incompletions and sacks (*probably even more prominently intentional groundings) in spades. Press coverage (needed upgrades at RCB and nickel back), with a cover 1 safety (Moore dependent on development), and a box safety (Carter) to baby sit the TE to accommodate a potentially blitzing LB.

Enough p***Y footing around when we have significant pressure weapons.
Kill em all, let Tebow sort em out.

underrated29
02-15-2012, 02:27 PM
Like I invited in the other thread, you're more than welcome to catch some games with me anytime and I can try and help if you want. If its a good game though I'm generally just screaming at the tv for McCoy to get AIDs



YES!!

Im glad someone else gets it. I just cant stand mccoy at all. I have battled practically the entire board over this fact. Its nice knowing I am not insane, since I seem to be the only one who generally thinks mccoy is a terrible OC.

TheReverend
02-15-2012, 02:30 PM
YES!!

Im glad someone else gets it. I just cant stand mccoy at all. I have battled practically the entire board over this fact. Its nice knowing I am not insane, since I seem to be the only one who generally thinks mccoy is a terrible OC.

I'm very willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was calling plays in an attempt to protect Tebow and his development.

That being said, I 110% believe that in doing so he was handcuffing him and putting him in TERRIBLE situations on 3rd down and late in games, so yes, I was beyond furious.

I expect a lot more TRUST between the two next season and, more importantly, dramatically less than 95% run plays on 1st down :/

underrated29
02-15-2012, 03:08 PM
I'm very willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was calling plays in an attempt to protect Tebow and his development.

That being said, I 110% believe that in doing so he was handcuffing him and putting him in TERRIBLE situations on 3rd down and late in games, so yes, I was beyond furious.

I expect a lot more TRUST between the two next season and, more importantly, dramatically less than 95% run plays on 1st down :/

I dont expect it. I hope like no other, I am praying to god, tebow and everything else for it, but I honestly have so little faith in mccoy.

TheReverend
02-15-2012, 03:19 PM
I dont expect it. I hope like no other, I am praying to god, tebow and everything else for it, but I honestly have so little faith in mccoy.

Far from an unfair assessment based on what we've seen. So far his offenses have ranked pretty dreadfully and, as far as I'm concerned, we've won games DESPITE our offensive play-calling... not the other way around.

Dapper Dan
03-27-2012, 06:20 PM
Being as there are 16 pages, I hope this hasn't been brought up. I still need a little clarification on describing DL as technique players. Mostly I hear 3 tech. and 5 tech.

I was thinking Doom was like a 5 and Ayers was a 3. But I heard the 3 called a DT. I don't know. Am I way off base? Help?

TheReverend
03-27-2012, 07:22 PM
Being as there are 16 pages, I hope this hasn't been brought up. I still need a little clarification on describing DL as technique players. Mostly I hear 3 tech. and 5 tech.

I was thinking Doom was like a 5 and Ayers was a 3. But I heard the 3 called a DT. I don't know. Am I way off base? Help?

Don't worry, about 1/4 of one of those 16 pages is actual Q&A haha

A 3 tech is the standard "under tackle" alignment where the DT lines up on the G's outside shoulder (it's standard for the other DT to play a "Nose" position over the center and two gap in a 0 or 1 alignment).

A 5 tech is a standard 3-4 DE playing that same alignment, only outside of the tackle and not the guard... which in reality is more of a DT position and closely resembles the skill set of a 4-3 UT.

43 defensive ends standardly play 7 and 9s. Elvis will usually passrush from a 9 whereas Ayers does more setting the edge from a 7.

Anyway, here's a guide for how the #s and alignment work for ya man:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/695702/dtechniquealignments_medium.gif

If that doesn't clear it up for you let me know.

Dapper Dan
03-27-2012, 08:32 PM
I got you now.

One question. When there is a TE, the DE like Doom will line up in the 9 gap where the TE is no matter what? Like if there's a TE on one side will Doom be on that side and if he's on the other side will Doom and Ayers swap sides? And resulting in the 3 technique DT to jump onto the other side of the NT to stay on the same side as Doom?

Did I ask that question clear enough?

TheReverend
03-27-2012, 11:12 PM
I got you now.

One question. When there is a TE, the DE like Doom will line up in the 9 gap where the TE is no matter what? Like if there's a TE on one side will Doom be on that side and if he's on the other side will Doom and Ayers swap sides? And resulting in the 3 technique DT to jump onto the other side of the NT to stay on the same side as Doom?

Did I ask that question clear enough?

Clear enough.

What has a bearing is the front (which CAN absolutely be--and generally are--predetermined by the formation the and alignment the offense sets themselves in)

4-3 Over, 4-3 under or a base 4-3.

Here's a basic 4-3 alignment:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/07/sports/07fifthdown-miami43/07fifthdown-miami43-blogSpan.jpg

Now, here's the 4-3 under. Note the variation (DLs a little staggered along with the dominant changes to the LB alignment)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/07/sports/07fifthdown-oddunder/07fifthdown-oddunder-blogSpan.jpg

And a 4-3 over (gap responsiblities are flipped from the "under" front)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/07/sports/07fifthdown-oddover/07fifthdown-oddover-blogSpan.jpg

Dapper Dan
03-27-2012, 11:19 PM
Okay. That makes enough sense. Seriously, thanks for the visuals.

TheReverend
03-27-2012, 11:57 PM
Okay. That makes enough sense. Seriously, thanks for the visuals.

Seriously, anytime.

If something isn't clear or you want more info on something else, let me know.

Dapper Dan
03-31-2012, 12:07 AM
Thanks again.

While I'm at it.

What's the difference in the Free Safety and the Strong Safety. The only thing I really thought was the FS is more of a cover S and the SS would be up near the box if a S is brought down.

Does the Strong Side OLB always line up against the strong side of the offense? What if there's a player in motion that makes the other side of the ball the strong side? I always used to think the strong side was the right side, but now I believe it's whichever side has more Offensive blockers, right?

I think that's all the questions I can think of right now. These are just a few things I haven't really needed to know, but I've grown curious about.

TheReverend
04-05-2012, 12:06 PM
Thanks again.

While I'm at it.

What's the difference in the Free Safety and the Strong Safety. The only thing I really thought was the FS is more of a cover S and the SS would be up near the box if a S is brought down.

Does the Strong Side OLB always line up against the strong side of the offense? What if there's a player in motion that makes the other side of the ball the strong side? I always used to think the strong side was the right side, but now I believe it's whichever side has more Offensive blockers, right?

I think that's all the questions I can think of right now. These are just a few things I haven't really needed to know, but I've grown curious about.

Sorry for delay, was on vacation.

Your questions are generally up to that specific defense and pretty fluid from team to team, that being said:

-Traditionally you have FS and SS pegged, but with offenses growing more pass oriented, you're seeing the difference between them not only fade away, but you're seeing the "three down" safety steadily becoming more rare. There are some incredible athletes that can play the pass and run just as well and sit on a hash playing a deep half as well as they bump and run a TE and stack and shed a blocker, but you're seeing a lot more different guys come in situationally than you have in NFL history.

-The Sam today usually lines up on the same side of the field regardless of strong side alignment and becomes more of a LOLB than a Sam. That can definitely change based on the offenses alignment and the defensive playcall however. Example: Man coverage, he'll probably follow the TE since that's generally his responsibility (*or a FB/H-Back). Change of formation at the LOS that dictates a new defense, etc.

blamkin86
08-01-2012, 12:24 PM
Alright - I'd really like to step up my knowledge of defense - I just love it - but I know very very little about it. I know it's a huge subject, so I'd like to start with the basic stuff.

I can tell who the CBs and S's are when I see the play starting - and I have a basic understanding of what those guys are responsible for.

After that, when I hear "17 is the Mike" or whatever, I'm lost.

So, I realize I'm asking a very huge question - but where would you guys get started? Maybe just knowing _all_ the basic positions and their responsibilities seems like a good place to start - where can I read that? After that then understanding the formations and why you would choose one over the other would be next.

Yeah, I know I'm asking for a lot. Help me get started, I love defense. Thanks!

TheReverend
08-01-2012, 12:39 PM
Alright - I'd really like to step up my knowledge of defense - I just love it - but I know very very little about it. I know it's a huge subject, so I'd like to start with the basic stuff.

I can tell who the CBs and S's are when I see the play starting - and I have a basic understanding of what those guys are responsible for.

After that, when I hear "17 is the Mike" or whatever, I'm lost.

So, I realize I'm asking a very huge question - but where would you guys get started? Maybe just knowing _all_ the basic positions and their responsibilities seems like a good place to start - where can I read that? After that then understanding the formations and why you would choose one over the other would be next.

Yeah, I know I'm asking for a lot. Help me get started, I love defense. Thanks!

Dive into books. Kirwan has a GREAT one here http://www.patkirwan.com/

If not, this is a little too comprehensive to address in a post or two, but I AM planning on getting a subsection of my website going where I'll address fundamentals to advanced stuff that hopefully should be STARTED by next week at patrickturley.org/football

blamkin86
08-01-2012, 12:43 PM
That's perfect thank you.