The coming trade of the Franchise QB

[atwater27]

I have no doubt that Cutler will be traded. Money in the bank. And it will be the unhappiest day in my fandom of the Broncos since, oh, a certain day with the numbers 55-10 in them one cold winter. I am a depressed Broncos fan and it won't get any better any time soon. And this may be years.

I will be my usual opinionated self here and announce firmly into the Jay Cutler camp. Losing Mike Shanahan was like a gnarly divorce with a trophy wife you had grown to love over more than a decade. Shanahan was the Broncos. In my opinion just as much as Elway. And though I initially thought his replacement (if that is even possible) would be good for the club, I didn't realize he would end up to be an ego-driven, punkass powermonger who would throw his weight around before he even got finished making introductions. And before the draft has even come around, look at what has happened.....

A team with a stellar offense with nowhere to go but up is in serious jeopardy of being made painfully lame, a coaching and talent evaluation staff that was CLEARLY on the right track got the cold shoulder from Bowlen while getting their pink slips from their brand spanking new coach, and a defense full of average and below average players has been dumped in favor of....... um... well, different but just as average and below average (Or ancient has been stars) players.

McDaniels is going to trade Jay Cutler. And the Broncos will insist it was all his fault. And some of you will believe them. But I won't. They will get perhaps some draft picks and a player. But it won't even come close to the value of a bonafide franchise quarterback. And it will further alienate myself and millions of fans from our Broncos, destroy any sense of loyalty to it's players for years to come, and turn the franchise into a cold, soulless enterprise with little to cheer for. Awesome.

[claymore]

Dude, If Cutler is traded, this will be so bad........ No way we trade Cutler. I dont know what I would do, but I would be freaking angry.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Depends on what we get for him. If it isn't at least two first rounders, you don't get to the table to even bargain. I'd drool over Detroit's two first rounders, and the possibility of more.

[atwater27]

Depends on what we get for him. If it isn't at least two first rounders, you don't get to the table to even bargain. I'd drool over Detroit's two first rounders, and the possibility of more.

Why, so we can draft a bust QB. Got a GREAT QB class this year.:coffee:

[bcbronc]

Is this Cutler kid any good?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Why, so we can draft a bust QB. Got a GREAT QB class this year.:coffee:

Well, say we did get #1 and #20 for Jay Cutler from Detroit, I'd probably take someone like Aaron Curry at #1; and then use our #12 on the best defensive lineman, perhaps Tyson Jackson. #20; you can go for another defensive player or offensive value weapon. I wouldn't draft a quarterback in the top two or three rounds this year. I'm a firm believer that Denver could get someone to develop later on that could be as successful as Cassel was for McDaniels in New England.

[Magnificent Seven]

Pat Bowlen will definitely keep Cutler. However, he might do something on between Cutler and McDainels like force them to bury the hatchet and befriends.

[hotcarl]

Well, say we did get #1 and #20 for Jay Cutler from Detroit, I'd probably take someone like Aaron Curry at #1; and then use our #12 on the best defensive lineman, perhaps Tyson Jackson. #20; you can go for another defensive player or offensive value weapon. I wouldn't draft a quarterback in the top two or three rounds this year. I'm a firm believer that Denver could get someone to develop later on that could be as successful as Cassel was for McDaniels in New England.

even if we get the #1 pick we are not going to pick there unless we get stuck which would be an even bigger ****up than trading cutler
1. we cant afford it
2. we need alot
3. :welcome:

[elsid13]

Well, say we did get #1 and #20 for Jay Cutler from Detroit, I'd probably take someone like Aaron Curry at #1; and then use our #12 on the best defensive lineman, perhaps Tyson Jackson. #20; you can go for another defensive player or offensive value weapon. I wouldn't draft a quarterback in the top two or three rounds this year. I'm a firm believer that Denver could get someone to develop later on that could be as successful as Cassel was for McDaniels in New England.

Want to know how hard it is to find a QB that good enough to lead a team. Look at Baltimore, they have gone through over a dozen QBs in last ten years to find their starter. And Flacco most likely will struggle next season.

And Cassell isn't a rookie that McKid just found this draft, he was in the NFL/system for over 4 years. That 4 years of experience and watching Brady handle things. Plus as good as Cassel was last season, every DC in the league has film on him and knows what he can do and what he can not. Think that defenses won't adjust to stop him? Draft pick at best give you a guy that has under 50% chance of being a starter, and even less of being a star.

[jrelway]

i will question my love for this organization if they trade away cutler. A franchise qb who plays hard and only comes around every so often. i dont know if i can deal with 3-5 more years of half assery. I know its a business and anyone can get traded, but show the guy some love, like you want him here..and not just "anyone can get traded" type bullshit.

[silkamilkamonico]

Want to know how easy is it to find a QB, look at Atlanta, who have seem to go from one franchise QB to another.

Face it, with or without Cutler, Denver isn't doing anything this upcoming season. Not with our defense, not with our schedule, and not while going through our tranisition of schemes both offensively and defensively.

If we trade Cutler now, we can get Sam Bradford next year. Not only is that kid taylor made to run an NFL spread, he'll be one of the brightest young minds in the NFL, AND he'll be even younger than Cutler which means we'll have him around longer.

Oh I like it. Sam Bradford. A QB that's done nothing but win, and win early. We would be THE next team in the NFL!

[EMB6903]

If Cutler is traded I hope nobody expects to receive as much talent in return.
On top of that expect to wait another 10 years before another franchise QB falls to us.


But hey hes acting like a crybaby during the offseason... Ship his ass out.

[silkamilkamonico]

i will question my love for this organization if they trade away cutler. A franchise qb who plays hard and comes around every so often. i dont know if i can deal with 3-5 more years of half assery. I know its a business and anyone can get traded, but show the guy some love, like you want him here..and not just "anyone can get traded" type bullshit.

We've been dealing with half assery for the last 10 years with the exception of 1 season. Regardless of what happens with Cutler, we'll still be dealing with half assery next year, and most likely the following year.

[EMB6903]

Want to know how easy is it to find a QB, look at Atlanta, who have seem to go from one franchise QB to another.

Face it, with or without Cutler, Denver isn't doing anything this upcoming season. Not with our defense, not with our schedule, and not while going through our tranisition of schemes both offensively and defensively.

If we trade Cutler now, we can get Sam Bradford next year. Not only is that kid taylor made to run an NFL spread, he'll be one of the brightest young minds in the NFL, AND he'll be even younger than Cutler which means we'll have him around longer.

Oh I like it. Sam Bradford. A QB that's done nothing but win, and win early. We would be THE next team in the NFL!


How many years did Green Bay wait after Starr retired?

How many years did it take San Diego to get one after Fouts retired?

How long for Cinci after Boomer?

San Fransisco sure lucked out with Alex Smith right?

Have the Bills found one yet?

How about the Jets after Namath retired?

Miami is still looking for one as well... I dont think they would expect Pennington to be the long-term answer

took the Cowboys and the Broncos 6-7 years as well, Baltimore finally lucked out with Flacco after trying to bring in a franchise QB since the franchise began.

Hardest thing to do is find a franchise QB, to trade one away because our feelings are hurt would be stupid.

[BroncoWave]

I highly doubt Cutler gets traded. I give it like a 20% chance of happening at this point. Now if he skips the workouts on Monday, that figure will increase.

[silkamilkamonico]

How many years did Green Bay wait after Starr retired?

How many years did it take San Diego to get one after Fouts retired?

San Fransisco sure lucked out with Alex Smith right?

Have the Bills found one yet?

How about the Jets after Namath retired?

Miami is still looking for one as well... I dont think they would expect Pennington to be the answer

took the Cowboys and the Broncos 6-7 years as well, Baltimore finally lucked out with Flacco after trying to bring in a franchise QB since the franchise began.

Hardest thing to do is find a franchise QB, to trade one away because our feelings are hurt would be stupid.

It's Green Bay. Who cares. SF and the Bills have terrible offensive schemes. Obviously any QB that goes there is going to fail. Have the Jets ever really had a great QB? Their organization is fail at the position. Miami is winning without a QB. Who cares. Dallas...really? Jerry Jones prevents them. Denver had Shanahan who "thought he knew". Baltimore won a SuperBowl with Trent Dilfer. 'Nuff said.

[silkamilkamonico]

I highly doubt Cutler gets traded. I give it like a 20% chance of happening at this point. Now if he skips the workouts on Monday, that figure will increase.

If he skips the workouts Monday, forget about trading him....kick his azz to the curb.

[EMB6903]

Where are you going with this?

all Im saying is it isnt easy to find a franchise QB, this will be atlanta's first one since Bartowski (i do not think Vick was a franchise QB), so its not as easy as you think.

[silkamilkamonico]

Franchise QB's are so totally overrated. It's all about scheme's these days.

[EMB6903]

good one

(that was a joke right?)

[SmilinAssasSin27]

You do realize McDaniels hasn't even coached one game yet, right? If Cutler wants to act like a little bitch, let him go bye bye. Teams have won championships w/o "franchise" QBs and will do so again in the future. I like Cutty and prefer to kerep him around, but I'm hardly gonna "take sides". I'm merely a spectator who can process things well enough to see both sides. But in the end the long and short of it is that Cutty gets paid handsomely to play a game. His bosses are McDaniels and Bowlen. You don't dodge the owner's phone calls. I don't care who you think you are. If he goes, he goes. Same w/ McDaniels. But I'm willing to give it more than 6 weeks until I get that bent out of shape over this.

[JKcatch724]

Franchise QB's are so totally overrated. It's all about scheme's these days.

Ya, like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady and Kurt Warner and Drew Brees and Eli Manning?

God those guys are soooooo overrated!

[silkamilkamonico]

good one

(that was a joke right?)


Not at all. Solid defense, and QB friendly systems are what wins. You want to sit around and wait for the next John Elway and Peyton Manning, give it up now.

[Poet]

Want to know how easy is it to find a QB, look at Atlanta, who have seem to go from one franchise QB to another.

Face it, with or without Cutler, Denver isn't doing anything this upcoming season. Not with our defense, not with our schedule, and not while going through our tranisition of schemes both offensively and defensively.

If we trade Cutler now, we can get Sam Bradford next year. Not only is that kid taylor made to run an NFL spread, he'll be one of the brightest young minds in the NFL, AND he'll be even younger than Cutler which means we'll have him around longer.

Oh I like it. Sam Bradford. A QB that's done nothing but win, and win early. We would be THE next team in the NFL!

So the plan would be to trade away a perfectly good QB and then plan on losing for an early draft pick to take another QB who is not proven?

Any player is tradable, but that plan blows man.

[getlynched47]

Mr. Negativity here :rolleyes:

Cutler isnt going to get traded, the only thing we should be worried about is whether Cutler and McDipShit can ever get along...

[silkamilkamonico]

Ya, like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady and Kurt Warner and Drew Brees and Eli Manning?

God those guys are soooooo overrated!

LMAO You just named 19% of the starting QB's in the NFL today. Maybe it isn't very hard to find a franchise QB!

[EMB6903]

Not at all. Solid defense, and QB friendly systems are what wins. You want to sit around and wait for the next John Elway and Peyton Manning, give it up now.
there have been only 6 teams to win the superbowl since 1970 without having atleast a SOLID QB

good luck with that logic.

[JKcatch724]

Let's clear one thing up here:

"Every player is tradable" DOES NOT MEAN "Eff it, trade him"

[silkamilkamonico]

So the plan would be to trade away a perfectly good QB and then plan on losing for an early draft pick to take another QB who is not proven?

Any player is tradable, but that plan blows man.

Good point. Let's keep Cutler and continue to have our QB and HC hate each other. Instead of Cutler sniping at Rivers like a teenybopper, he'll be sniping at his own head coach.

We could be the circus darlings of the NFL!!

[silkamilkamonico]

Since 1970 there have been only 6 teams to win the superbowl since 1970 without having a "franchise qb"

good luck with that logic.

So you're saying they aren't that hard to find? JKCacth over here just reeled off 19% of the NFL starters, claiming them "franchise QB's, and he didn't even say some of the game's better QB's.

[elsid13]

Franchise QB's are so totally overrated. It's all about scheme's these days.

Do you really believe that?

[tubby]

You do realize McDaniels hasn't even coached one game yet, right? If Cutler wants to act like a little bitch, let him go bye bye. Teams have won championships w/o "franchise" QBs and will do so again in the future. I like Cutty and prefer to kerep him around, but I'm hardly gonna "take sides". I'm merely a spectator who can process things well enough to see both sides. But in the end the long and short of it is that Cutty gets paid handsomely to play a game. His bosses are McDaniels and Bowlen. You don't dodge the owner's phone calls. I don't care who you think you are. If he goes, he goes. Same w/ McDaniels. But I'm willing to give it more than 6 weeks until I get that bent out of shape over this.

Rack him.

I can not wrap my head around the hate for McD when he hasn't even coached a game.

It is still all about winning right?

[JKcatch724]

LMAO You just named 19% of the starting QB's in the NFL today. Maybe it isn't very hard to find a franchise QB!

19% of of 100? My math tells me those odds are against you.

[EMB6903]

So you're saying they aren't that hard to find? JKCacth over here just reeled off 19% of the NFL starters, claiming them "franchise QB's, and he didn't even say some of the game's better QB's.

Im saying they are extremely hard to find, and the ones that have one tend to have more success

Players are much more important then a scheme, to say otherwise is foolish. this is the NFL not the WAC...

[Cugel]

Well, say we did get #1 and #20 for Jay Cutler from Detroit, I'd probably take someone like Aaron Curry at #1; and then use our #12 on the best defensive lineman, perhaps Tyson Jackson. #20; you can go for another defensive player or offensive value weapon. I wouldn't draft a quarterback in the top two or three rounds this year. I'm a firm believer that Denver could get someone to develop later on that could be as successful as Cassel was for McDaniels in New England.

GM Cicero? You're FIRED! :coffee:

Your team just lost 8 consecutive games. You finished the season at 4-12 because your QB was Kyle Boller. Pack your bags!

Oh, maybe you can get a job as an assistant athletic director at some junior college. :coffee:

[WARHORSE]

Nah.........Josh said hes NOT TRADING CUTLER. PERIOD.


He wouldnt want to look like he doesnt know what hes doing or saying two weeks in a row.


I just hope Jay is the bigger man and shows up at mondays workouts.



I dont see any new coaches thinking they should trade Peyton Manning, and bringing in Eli because Eli knows the system.

Lets get this drama over and done with.

[silkamilkamonico]

19% of of 100? My math tells me those odds are against you.

OK. 19%. Apparently Jay Cutler isn't one after all then. Why are we even having this argument?

LMAO

[Poet]

Good point. Let's keep Cutler and continue to have our QB and HC hate each other. Instead of Cutler sniping at Rivers like a teenybopper, he'll be sniping at his own head coach.

We could be the circus darlings of the NFL!!

So you then get rid of the one true stud on your team because your head coach may or may not be a moron?

To me that means that you either need to get them on the same page, or actually hire a qualified head coach.

Let's go take a look at the right way to do things here.

Mcfailure replaced Shanahan. Shanahan was and is a legend. Mike Tomlin replaced Cowher. Cowher was and is a legend. McFailure and the rest of the Cutler mess occured. Unless someone gives you an insane deal you don't even talk about trading a franchise QB. Mike Tomlin sought out his franchise QB and said something along the lines of "We can both go to the Hall of Fame with one another".

Cutler is a whiny school girl. McFailure is a failure. Cutler, while being a whiner, is a stud. You don't trade away a stud because he is a little girl and his head coach is a moron.

If you can get two first rounders for him, you talk about it. Any player is tradable, but certainly not for Matt Cassel.

[silkamilkamonico]

Im saying they are extremely hard to find, and the ones that have one tend to have more success

Players are much more important then a scheme, to say otherwise is foolish. this is the NFL not the WAC...

Extremely hard to find? LMAO There's a plethora of them in the NFL today. In fact, there's more "franchise QB's in the NFL today then there were 7 years ago. Significantly more.

[WARHORSE]

Well, say we did get #1 and #20 for Jay Cutler from Detroit, I'd probably take someone like Aaron Curry at #1; and then use our #12 on the best defensive lineman, perhaps Tyson Jackson. #20; you can go for another defensive player or offensive value weapon. I wouldn't draft a quarterback in the top two or three rounds this year. I'm a firm believer that Denver could get someone to develop later on that could be as successful as Cassel was for McDaniels in New England.


No you wouldnt, cause how you gonna sign Marshall, Clady, Champ, Eddie, Harris and any other players, when you tie up money in what you dont know will succeed?

That would be a dumb risk, spending all your wad on unproven players, then not having the moeny to sign those who ARE proven.

The three picks bust, and then guess what you are?

THE DETROIT LIONS.

[silkamilkamonico]

So you then get rid of the one true stud on your team because your head coach may or may not be a moron?

To me that means that you either need to get them on the same page, or actually hire a qualified head coach.

Let's go take a look at the right way to do things here.

Mcfailure replaced Shanahan. Shanahan was and is a legend. Mike Tomlin replaced Cowher. Cowher was and is a legend. McFailure and the rest of the Cutler mess occured. Unless someone gives you an insane deal you don't even talk about trading a franchise QB. Mike Tomlin sought out his franchise QB and said something along the lines of "We can both go to the Hall of Fame with one another".

Cutler is a whiny school girl. McFailure is a failure. Cutler, while being a whiner, is a stud. You don't trade away a stud because he is a little girl and his head coach is a moron.

If you can get two first rounders for him, you talk about it. Any player is tradable, but certainly not for Matt Cassel.


Great comparison. The problem with it Roethlesberger was a SuperBowl QB before Tomlin came along. Cutler hasn't won since high school.

[EMB6903]

Extremely hard to find? LMAO There's a plethora of them in the NFL today. In fact, there's more "franchise QB's in the NFL today then there were 7 years ago. Significantly more.

May I get a list of who you think is a "franchise QB" in todays game?

[WARHORSE]

It's Green Bay. Who cares. SF and the Bills have terrible offensive schemes. Obviously any QB that goes there is going to fail. Have the Jets ever really had a great QB? Their organization is fail at the position. Miami is winning without a QB. Who cares. Dallas...really? Jerry Jones prevents them. Denver had Shanahan who "thought he knew". Baltimore won a SuperBowl with Trent Dilfer. 'Nuff said.


Ive never written these words on an internet forum ever:


WORST POST EVER.

[silkamilkamonico]

May I get a list of who you think is a "franchise QB" in todays game?

I've already been through that argument countless times before. You could even argue there's 15 in the NFL today. I'll let you figure that one out.

[JKcatch724]

OK. 19%. Apparently Jay Cutler isn't one after all then. Why are we even having this argument?

LMAO

LMAO SO FUNNY!

You're missing the point... If we trade Cutler now, he'll be in that 19% easily by a year or two, if he's not already there now. That's why you don't trade him. Same reason the Packers aren't shopping Aaron Rodgers and the Chargers aren't shopping Philip Rivers. Because they know those types of QBs are the next generation of "19%" and wouldn't want to give that up.

But no, go on. You're on a roll. Trent Dilfer, here we come.

[silkamilkamonico]

Ive never written these words on an internet forum ever:


WORST POST EVER.

LMAO

Says that guy that starts an ALbert Haynesworth thread after Denver said they weren't going to go after him.

Maybe they will trade Cutler after alll!

[EMB6903]

I've already been through that argument countless times before. You could even argue there's 15 in the NFL today. I'll let you figure that one out.

way to "surprise" me and dodge the question :lol:

[silkamilkamonico]

LMAO SO FUNNY!

You're missing the point... If we trade Cutler now, he'll be in that 19% easily by a year or two, if he's not already there now. That's why you don't trade him. Same reason the Packers aren't shopping Aaron Rodgers and the Chargers aren't shopping Philip Rivers. Because they know those types of QBs are the next generation of "19%" and wouldn't want to give that up.

But no, go on. You're on a roll. Trent Dilfer, here we come.

Drew Brees and Ben Roethlesberger aren't franchise QB's? What about Donovon McNabb? I could go on. SOunds to me like you don't have a clue what a franchise QB is.

[Poet]

Great comparison. The problem with it Roethlesberger was a SuperBowl QB before Tomlin came along. Cutler hasn't won since high school.

Roethlisburger was also coming off a very bad season and many people thought that his career was on the downside.

You can't pin Cutler's record as a player on him. If you put Jay Cutler on the Steelers the result would probably have been the same.

As a Bengals fan I can honestly say that Jay Cutler is a beast. He is also a whiny school girl and needs to man up. But, if Carson Palmer retired tomorrow and you guys traded Cutler to us, I wouldn't sweat it that much.

Jay Cutler is not the problem, your awful defense and moronic head coach is. Well, I take that back, Jay Cutler could ease the transition a bit by going "Any player is tradable, I am sorry that I reacted like a punk and I am going to be a grown ass man now. I will play hard for the Broncos organization, that includes the head coach. I want to win football games and championships. Let's keep building up the team!

:salute:

[Cugel]

Rack him.

I can not wrap my head around the hate for McD when he hasn't even coached a game.

It is still all about winning right?

You want to understand the HATE? I got some HATE here for ya!

Jay Cutler was not the problem. The Broncos offense was not the problem. Bowlen fired Shanny NOT because he was a bad coach, but because his player personnel decisions on defense sucked, and the defense was HORRIBLE, resulting in an 8-8 season and no playoffs for the 3rd straight year.

Then Coach Duggie Howser who's never head coached a day in the NFL comes in and wants to trade the franchise QB who's only in his third season and went to his first of many pro-bowls. He's got extraordinary talent and a limitless future with the proper coaching and every GM and coach in the NFL is left shaking their heads?

What was McDaniels thinking? Nobody thinks it was a good idea to trade Cutler for Cassel.

But, that's completely academic by now, since McIdiot TRIED AND FAILED to make the trade.

In short he totally SCREWED UP! OOOPS! Now Jay is rightfully pissed off, the team is in turmoil wondering who their QB is going to be, the fans are angry and the media is laughing and shaking their heads.

And NONE of this need have happened! It was all just immature stupidity on McDaniels part that he can't make up with Cutler and straighten this mess out! :mad:

Imaginary conversation:


McD: "Jay I'm sorry we tried to trade you. I hoped to get a bunch of picks and Matt Cassel, who I've coached before as you know. We didn't get the deal we wanted and didn't go ahead with the trade as you know."

Jay: "Well, why the hell couldn't you have told me when we were meeting back in February? I was totally blind-sided by this! I don't feel I did anything wrong here! And suddenly I'm trade bait? WTF?"

McD: "Well, Jay this came up rather suddenly after the trading period began. However, I'm sorry I didn't communicate more clearly with you before-hand. We definitely don't want to trade you now. We want you to play for the Broncos for a long time."

Jay: "Does that mean you're not still trying to trade me?

McD: "No, Jay, that was a one time shot. It didn't work out and we're moving forward and we want you on board."


Pat B: "You're not going anywhere this season."

Jay: "Does that mean you're going to trade me NEXT season? What's going on?"

McD: "Nobody can tell the future Jay and anybody can be traded as you know, but we certainly don't have any plans to trade you at any time in the future either. Honestly, we're just not thinking about it."

Xanders: "Now let's all go in front of the media and issue a joint statement. Jay is staying with the team for the foreseeable future."


See how hard that isn't? :coffee:

[silkamilkamonico]

way to "surprise" me and dodge the question :lol:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Donovon McNabb
Philip Rivers
Kurt Warner
Ben Roethlesberger
Matt Ryan
Matt Hasselbeck
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Jay Cutler

...and I could arguably go on.

Try actually contributing something to the thread next time.

[silkamilkamonico]

Jay Cutler is not the problem, your awful defense and moronic head coach is. Well, I take that back, Jay Cutler could ease the transition a bit by going "Any player is tradable, I am sorry that I reacted like a punk and I am going to be a grown ass man now. I will play hard for the Broncos organization, that includes the head coach. I want to win football games and championships. Let's keep building up the team!

:salute:


Now you're catching on.

I hear Cutler thinks he's so good he doesn't even need to go to offseason workouts next week!

[JKcatch724]

Drew Brees and Ben Roethlesberger aren't franchise QB's? What about Donovon McNabb? I could go on. SOunds to me like you don't have a clue what a franchise QB is.

:rolleyes:

Sounds to me like you're getting a lot of support in your argument.

[silkamilkamonico]

:rolleyes:

Sounds to me like you're getting a lot of support in your argument.

That's because they don't think Donovon MCNabb is actually a franchise QB.

"whoops" on that one huh?

[Poet]

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Donovon McNabb
Philip Rivers
Kurt Warner
Ben Roethlesberger
Matt Ryan
Matt Hasselbeck
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Jay Cutler

Before we say that Matt Ryan is a franchise QB, let's see him play well consistently.

Before we say that Kurt Warner is a franchise QB, let's see him do it again in Arizona. For every good year he has had as a player, he has had a bad one. I personally don't think that the Cardinals were anything more than a fluke, and I doubt they get into the playoffs next year. The Seahawks are healthy again and they have a lot of great players.





...and I could arguably go on.

Try actually contributing something to the thread next time.

I think that his post was as worthwhile as any in this thread.

[WARHORSE]

You do realize McDaniels hasn't even coached one game yet, right? If Cutler wants to act like a little bitch, let him go bye bye. Teams have won championships w/o "franchise" QBs and will do so again in the future. I like Cutty and prefer to kerep him around, but I'm hardly gonna "take sides". I'm merely a spectator who can process things well enough to see both sides. But in the end the long and short of it is that Cutty gets paid handsomely to play a game. His bosses are McDaniels and Bowlen. You don't dodge the owner's phone calls. I don't care who you think you are. If he goes, he goes. Same w/ McDaniels. But I'm willing to give it more than 6 weeks until I get that bent out of shape over this.


Cutler hasnt acted like a little witch.

Take a listen to the interview in which everyone drew their comments from in pasting what Cutler said all over the media. These are the comments that had people saying he was being a pill.

http://cbs4denver.com/video/?cid=92
Click on the video that says 'Cutler Believes the Broncos Tried to Trade Him' dated february 28.

Its a little different when you hear his voice inflection vs reading it in the Denver Post and having reporters say hes being a pissant.


As for Cutlers response in staying away now and spending his time on vacation..........if I came in early to get to work learning a new system, like Cutler did, and youre jerking my mojo talking about how youre so glad to be working with me, and then you turn around and try and trade me.........GUESS WHAT? Im outta here.

What the hell am I doing giving myself to an offense Im not gonna run??

Talk about asking Cutler to be STUPID.

As for Bowlens phone calls...............where the hell were they when you left me wondering whether I was gonna be a Bronco or not? Why didnt you call and tell me what was going on instead of letting me learn about it through my rear end?

When Im on vacation, not even Bowlen has a right to expect me to answer my phone. That is MY time. You had my time when I came in and committed myself to learning the offense and then you spit in my face. Not by listening to the trade offer, but by being silent about it and leaving me hanging.

This is about a NUMBER of people doing the classy thing. Not just Cutler.

[BroncoWave]

No you wouldnt, cause how you gonna sign Marshall, Clady, Champ, Eddie, Harris and any other players, when you tie up money in what you dont know will succeed?

That would be a dumb risk, spending all your wad on unproven players, then not having the moeny to sign those who ARE proven.

The three picks bust, and then guess what you are?

THE DETROIT LIONS.

It seems to me that the people that are deadset against trading Cutler are 100% certain that all 3 of our first rounders would have been busts. That is such a load of crap. While it is possible, odds are that out of first round picks, at least 1 of them will be a pretty good or all pro player, another will be an average to solid starter, and the 3rd will be a bust. If our front office is dumb enough to screw up 3 first round picks in one draft, then it would be obvious that they never should have been here in the first place.

[JKcatch724]

That's because they don't think Donovon MCNabb is actually a franchise QB.

"whoops" on that one huh?

This is like arguing with a third grader. Sorry I named the first five franchise QBs that came to my head in 10 seconds.... I'll be sure to construct a brilliant, well thought out argument next time like you.

[Poet]

Now you're catching on.

I hear Cutler thinks he's so good he doesn't even need to go to offseason workouts next week!

Silka, as far as catching up goes, I'm jogging backwards to make this a fair race.;)

(Please read that as a joke)

Oh, and if I had to choose a proven good QB, over an inexperienced head coach who has already botched an offseason, I would probably go with that proven good QB who is young, will only get better.

Even if he is a whiny girl.

[silkamilkamonico]

Before we say that Matt Ryan is a franchise QB, let's see him play well consistently.

Before we say that Kurt Warner is a franchise QB, let's see him do it again in Arizona. For every good year he has had as a player, he has had a bad one. I personally don't think that the Cardinals were anything more than a fluke, and I doubt they get into the playoffs next year. The Seahawks are healthy again and they have a lot of great players.






I think that his post was as worthwhile as any in this thread.

People deemed Cutler a "franchise QB" before he even played a full season. With that very reason I'm putting him in that argument, and leaving him there. For that very reason I also should put Aaron Rodgers, and Joe Flacco in it.

Kurt Warner's proven. He's arguably a HoF QB. I'm not even going to waste my time arguing about that one.

Matt Hasselbeck has been one of the best QB's in the NFl for a period of years leading up to his injuries last year. He even led his team to a SuperBowl. I'm not pulling him out because of injuries.

I even forgot to put Carson Palmer in there.

[silkamilkamonico]

This is like arguing with a third grader. Sorry I named the first five franchise QBs that came to my head in 10 seconds.... I'll be sure to construct a brilliant, well thought out argument next time like you.

Just be careful what you're arguing next time. You're futile attempt at "franchise QB's are rare" completely backfired.

[WARHORSE]

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Donovon McNabb
Philip Rivers
Kurt Warner
Ben Roethlesberger
Matt Ryan
Matt Hasselbeck
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Jay Cutler

...and I could arguably go on.




Try actually contributing something to the thread next time.


Im not even gonna pick on your list.

Take away Cutler and you dont have a third of the league.


How many of their teams were in the playoffs or winning?

[Rex]

I remember when the defense sucked because Jake Plummer turned the ball over and gave the other team short field and went 3 and out etc....................

without Marshall, Royal, Sheffler, Graham, and that OL.

[EMB6903]

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Donovon McNabb
Philip Rivers
Kurt Warner
Ben Roethlesberger
Matt Ryan
Matt Hasselbeck
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Jay Cutler

...and I could arguably go on.

Try actually contributing something to the thread next time.

Well you said earlier that there were atleast 15, you only named 12.. and out of the 12 of those you could only name 2 that were drafted since 2005

Its so easy to find one though right?

Thank you for making my point for me, from drafts 2005,2006,2007,and 2008 only 2 have managed to become a "Franchise" qb in your eyes?

I guess you are right if you think only 2 franchise qb's in 4 years is easy..

[JKcatch724]

Just be careful what you're arguing next time. You're futile attempt at "franchise QB's are rare" completely backfired.

What WAR said. That's post 62, since you're so good at counting.

EDIT: And EMB. That's post 64. Funny how your argument is backfiring, huh?

[silkamilkamonico]

Silka, as far as catching up goes, I'm jogging backwards to make this a fair race.;)

(Please read that as a joke)

Oh, and if I had to choose a proven good QB, over an inexperienced head coach who has already botched an offseason, I would probably go with that proven good QB who is young, will only get better.

Even if he is a whiny girl.

Well, that's a fair opinion. I don't agree with it but it's fair.

What people aren't saying about franchise QB's who have won the Superbowl, is they were all led by one of the games best coaches at their time.

I haven't seen any QB other than a guy like Elway lead his team to a SuperBowl with Joe Average as his coach. And like I said, I could grow old and die waiting for the next John Elway.

[BroncoWave]

Im not even gonna pick on your list.

Take away Cutler and you dont have a third of the league.


How many of their teams were in the playoffs or winning?

Other than Hasselbeck, all of the QB's he listed either made or contended for the playoffs this year, and they have all led their teams to the playoffs (other than Cutler, but not really his fault), and 7 led their teams to SB appearances.

[silkamilkamonico]

Im not even gonna pick on your list.

Take away Cutler and you dont have a third of the league.


How many of their teams were in the playoffs or winning?

I forgot Carson Palmer. There's a third right there. Way to backblow Cutler by pulling out the "playoffs" or "winning" argument.

[Lonestar]

there have been only 6 teams to win the superbowl since 1970 without having atleast a SOLID QB

good luck with that logic.

one does not have to have a super stud QB to win..

Until Brady won a couple he was a backup QB.. They made him a STUD , Cassell became one last year.. Yes in the same system that made Brady one..

a system we will employee here.. maybe the is a method to this madness afterall..Hmmmmmmmm..

[silkamilkamonico]

Well you said earlier that there were atleast 15, you only named 12.. and out of the 12 of those you could only name 2 that were drafted since 2005

Its so easy to find one though right?

Thank you for making my point for me, from drafts 2005,2006,2007,and 2008 only 2 have managed to become a "Franchise" qb in your eyes?

Carson Palmer.

Aaron Rodgers and Joe Flacco and maybe even JaMarcus Russell for the very same reasons people anointed Cutler a "franchise QB" before he even played a full season.

To humor you, I'll take them away. 33% of the starting QB's in the NFL are "franchise QB's". Yea....."rare, huh".

5% is rare. 33% is reasonably attainable for a hit or miss market that fluctuates year in and year out.

What's next? Defenses are a dying breed?

[Rex]

TrInt Green was 13-3 with the worst defense in the league in 2003

[silkamilkamonico]

TrInt Green was 13-3 with the worst defense in the league in 2003

Oh say it ain't so!!

You have just completely opened my eyes to an entirely new argument. Thank You!!

Let me guess everyone!! He wasn't a "franchise QB", right?
Oh h h h h boy!

[EMB6903]

one does not have to have a super stud QB to win..

Until Brady won a couple he was a backup QB.. They made him a STUD , Cassell became one last year.. Yes in the same system that made Brady one..

a system we will employee here.. maybe the is a method to this madness afterall..Hmmmmmmmm..

if anything, Brady made Belichick a better coach

people forget that BEFORE BRADY Belichick had a career record WAY below 500.


Players~~~~~>scheme

Its not even close.

[Poet]

People deemed Cutler a "franchise QB" before he even played a full season. With that very reason I'm putting him in that argument, and leaving him there. For that very reason I also should put Aaron Rodgers, and Joe Flacco in it.
Now hold on a second, if you are going to start putting in unproven players as franchise QBs then sure, franchise QBs are easy to find. Hell, the Bengals had a few with Akili Smith and David Klinger! And the Chargers had one with Ryan Leaf! Hey, did you hear about how awesome Cleveland's franchise QB was in Tim Couch? My point is that when you say someone is a Franchise QB, you better make sure that the player is proven. Yeah, some people went "OMG CUTLER IS A BRONCO THEREFORE HE IS THE BESTEST QB EVER AND OMG HIS LAST NAME IS CUTLER SO WE CAN MAKE A TON OF AWESOME CATCH PHRASES WITH IT !!!11!!!111"

Going off of a terrible definition of what a franchise QB is to prove your point is not exactly a good way to.........prove your point.



Kurt Warner's proven. He's arguably a HoF QB. I'm not even going to waste my time arguing about that one.

http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511
No, he really isn't. When you have such a large string of great and awful years, it's hard to call you proven. He has been in Arizona for four seasons of football. Two years in a row he was awful, the other two he was good. Early as a starter in St.Louis he was great, then he got hurt and sucked. His career is a roller coaster ride. Hence why I doubt that he is a real franchise QB.


Matt Hasselbeck has been one of the best QB's in the NFl for a period of years leading up to his injuries last year. He even led his team to a SuperBowl. I'm not pulling him out because of injuries.

I am confused about the comment on Hasselbeck, I don't think that I disputed that one.

[QUOTE]I even forgot to put Carson Palmer in there.

Yeah, and the irony is that a healthy Carson Palmer crushes damn near everyone but Brees, Manning, and Brady.

Too bad the Bengals offensive line is going to get him killed again. :tsk:

[EMB6903]

Carson Palmer.

Aaron Rodgers and Joe Flacco and maybe even JaMarcus Russell for the very same reasons people anointed Cutler a "franchise QB" before he even played a full season.

To humor you, I'll take them away. 33% of the starting QB's in the NFL are "franchise QB's". Yea....."rare, huh".

5% is rare. 33% is reasonably attainable for a hit or miss market that fluctuates year in and year out.

What's next? Defenses are a dying breed?

Rodgers?

Russell?

Should I put Alex Smith too?

even Flacco is an argument

tell me what these players have done (NOT TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS) but what THEY have done to earn the right to be called that?

[broncohead]

one does not have to have a super stud QB to win..

Until Brady won a couple he was a backup QB.. They made him a STUD , Cassell became one last year.. Yes in the same system that made Brady one..

a system we will employee here.. maybe the is a method to this madness afterall..Hmmmmmmmm..

So Cassell is a stud after 1 season? Right.

[silkamilkamonico]

Now hold on a second, if you are going to start putting in unproven players as franchise QBs then sure, franchise QBs are easy to find. Hell, the Bengals had a few with Akili Smith and David Klinger! And the Chargers had one with Ryan Leaf! Hey, did you hear about how awesome Cleveland's franchise QB was in Tim Couch? My point is that when you say someone is a Franchise QB, you better make sure that the player is proven. Yeah, some people went "OMG CUTLER IS A BRONCO THEREFORE HE IS THE BESTEST QB EVER AND OMG HIS LAST NAME IS CUTLER SO WE CAN MAKE A TON OF AWESOME CATCH PHRASES WITH IT !!!11!!!111"

Going off of a terrible definition of what a franchise QB is to prove your point is not exactly a good way to.........prove your point.

So, it was ok for people to label Jay Cutler a "franchise QB" before he played a full season, but not anybody else?





http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/profile?id=WAR492511
No, he really isn't. When you have such a large string of great and awful years, it's hard to call you proven. He has been in Arizona for four seasons of football. Two years in a row he was awful, the other two he was good. Early as a starter in St.Louis he was great, then he got hurt and sucked. His career is a roller coaster ride. Hence why I doubt that he is a real franchise QB.


Yea he is. Listen to some of the arguments of mass market media and previous HoF winners made, who actually do the voting.




Yeah, and the irony is that a healthy Carson Palmer crushes damn near everyone but Brees, Manning, and Brady.

Too bad the Bengals offensive line is going to get him killed again. :tsk:


That's not bad company. At least it isn't guys like Trent Edwards and JaMarcus Russel, who's been crushing Cutler in their head to head meetings.

[silkamilkamonico]

Rodgers?

Russell?

Should I put Alex Smith too?

even Flacco is an argument

tell me what these players have done (NOT TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS) but what THEY have done to earn the right to be called that?

Like I said earlier, that's why I pulled them out.

[silkamilkamonico]

So Cassell is a stud after 1 season? Right.

Why not? Jay Cutler was.

[tubby]

TrInt Green was 13-3 with the worst defense in the league in 2003

:shocked:

[Rex]

Plummer 54 g 71 TD 47 INT 39-15

Franchise QB 37 g 54 TD 37 INT 17-20


What are the qualifications for Franchise QB?

[tubby]

Why not? Jay Cutler was.

No, he was a stud before he ever took the field b/c he wasn't Plummer.

[EMB6903]

Why not? Jay Cutler was.

Cutler has played solid in atleast 28 games hes played in.

Do you watch the Broncos play?

[broncohead]

Why not? Jay Cutler was.

So your saying Cutler and Cassell are studs?

[silkamilkamonico]

What are the qualifications for Franchise QB?

You have to have a really big arm. Preferably, stronger than Elways.

[EMB6903]

Jay Cutler= STUD

Ill be the first one to say that one

[Poet]

So, it was ok for people to label Jay Cutler a "franchise QB" before he played a full season, but not anybody else?

I assure you, most reasonable intelligent fans don't do that. Why use the standard of sillyness in this at all?






Yea he is. Listen to some of the arguments of mass market media and previous HoF winners made, who actually do the voting.

Kurt Warner is a media darling. He has had more bad years than good years. I'm sorry, if he is a HOFER I could deal with it, but I have issues with calling anyone who is that inconsistent a HOF QB.






That's not bad company. At least it isn't guys like Trent Edwards and JaMarcus Russel, who's been crushing Cutler in their head to head meetings.

Silka, you do realize that opposing QB's dont actually duel when they play right? Carson Palmer beat McNabb in his prime during his SB year. I assure you, Palmer was not better than McNabb. Jay Cutler could play the Colts and rape and pillage them. If he did that and he beats the Colts that wuold not make him better than Peyton Manning. The inverse is true, I would rather have Cutler over JaMarcus and Trent any day of the week.

[silkamilkamonico]

Cutler has played solid in atleast 28 games hes played in.

Do you watch the Broncos play?

You need to catch up, we've already been over that, and past it.

And he certainly did not play solid in the last 3 games of the 2008 season, leading his offense to a paltry 17 points with 2TD's and 4 int's, in what were the biggest games of the season.

Maybe he just doesn't play solid in big games?

[EMB6903]

Plummer 54 g 71 TD 47 INT 39-15

Franchise QB 37 g 54 TD 37 INT 17-20


What are the qualifications for Franchise QB?

Production, being able to perform on a consistent basis, being able to make all the NFL throws.

[Rex]

Production, being able to perform on a consistent basis, being able to make all the NFL throws.

OK.

Shall we discuss consistency? I am not sure you want to go down that road.

[silkamilkamonico]

So your saying Cutler and Cassell are studs?

Apparently so. According to a good majority of fans around here, all it takes is 1 good season.

[broncohead]

Apparently so. According to a good majority of fans around here, all it takes is 1 good season.

Cutler is a good QB with all the tools to be one of the best in the league. I don't think he is a top 5 QB yet but a top 10 for sure. I think it's a little premature to say he's expendable with the talent he has. But on the other hand it's premature to say he's a great QB in the NFL.

[EMB6903]

You need to catch up, we've already been over that, and past it.

And he certainly did not play solid in the last 3 games of the 2008 season, leading his offense to a paltry 17 points with 2TD's and 4 int's, in what were the biggest games of the season.

Maybe he just doesn't play solid in big games?

you might have been past that, but I havent... Understood?

Cutler played solid vs the Bills, he missed eddie deep, and made a very crucial mistake at the end of the game... does that mean he didnt play solid? no.. was he the main reason we lost this game? definately not.

360 yards passing with 2 rushing td's is production... Im with you on how he played vs Panthers and San Diego though.... But you cant ask Cutler to lead you to a comeback win every game.... esspecially vs much better talent.

[Rex]

Offensive Rank Pts

2003 10
2004 9
2005 7
2006 17
2007 21
2008 16

Offensive Rank Yards

2003 7
2004 5
2005 5
2006 21
2007 11
2008 2

Franchise?

[EMB6903]

OK.

Shall we discuss consistency? I am not sure you want to go down that road.

Lets discuss consistency

Cutler has had 6 games where he has recorded a QB rating under 70 in his entire NFL Career (37 career starts)

I'd say that is very consistent

[Poet]

Lets discuss consistency

Cutler has had 6 games where he has recorded a QB rating under 70 in his entire NFL Career (37 career starts)

I'd say that is very consistent

To be fair, the golden standard of QB rating is about 90-100 depending on who you talk to.

You could throw 3 ints and two TDs for a ton of yards and get a QB rating of 70.

[Rex]

Lets discuss consistency

Cutler has had 6 games where he has recorded a QB rating under 70 in his entire NFL Career (37 career starts)

I'd say that is very consistent

Career Cutler 87.1 Plummer 84.3

HUGE difference.

Throw out 2006 and Plummer is 88.6

[EMB6903]

To be fair, the golden standard of QB rating is about 90-100 depending on who you talk to.

You could throw 3 ints and two TDs for a ton of yards and get a QB rating of 70.

Cutler has only had 1 3 INT game in his entire career... the point im trying to make is there has only been 6-7 games in his entire career where you could say he played "horrible"

Hes also only had 6 games where he has not recorded a passing TD

and out of 37 starts, only 11 did he record a completion % under 58

I dont know what else you guys want?

yes he turns the ball over but does that mean hes inconsistent? NO

[EMB6903]

Career Cutler 87.1 Plummer 84.3

HUGE difference.

Throw out 2006 and Plummer is 88.6

you are comparing Cutlers first 3 years in the league to Plummer's LAST 4 years in the league?

LMAO!

Good one

The most times Plummer threw in 1 year in Denver 521... To Cutlers 616

[Rex]

you are comparing Cutlers first 3 years in the league to Plummer's 4 years as a bronco?

LMAO!

Good one

Why? Because you cant argue with the numbers that show that the 2 are almost identical.......except for the record?

[Rex]

you are comparing Cutlers first 3 years in the league to Plummer's LAST 4 years in the league?

LMAO!

Good one

The most times Plummer threw in 1 year in Denver 521... To Cutlers 616

and still only threw 2 more int's and had 2 more TDs that Cutler........

without Marshall, Sheffler, Graham, and Royal........and Clady

[WARHORSE]

LMAO

Says that guy that starts an ALbert Haynesworth thread after Denver said they weren't going to go after him.

Maybe they will trade Cutler after alll!


That made a TON of sense.

:tsk:

Its just overflowing with you today.

BTW......why dont you show us the quote from the Broncos that said we werent going to pick up Haynesworth.


*hops away with his own foot up his rear*

[Dreadnought]

I have no doubt that Cutler will be traded. Money in the bank. And it will be the unhappiest day in my fandom of the Broncos since, oh, a certain day with the numbers 55-10 in them one cold winter. I am a depressed Broncos fan and it won't get any better any time soon. And this may be years.

I will be my usual opinionated self here and announce firmly into the Jay Cutler camp. Losing Mike Shanahan was like a gnarly divorce with a trophy wife you had grown to love over more than a decade. Shanahan was the Broncos. In my opinion just as much as Elway. And though I initially thought his replacement (if that is even possible) would be good for the club, I didn't realize he would end up to be an ego-driven, punkass powermonger who would throw his weight around before he even got finished making introductions. And before the draft has even come around, look at what has happened.....

A team with a stellar offense with nowhere to go but up is in serious jeopardy of being made painfully lame, a coaching and talent evaluation staff that was CLEARLY on the right track got the cold shoulder from Bowlen while getting their pink slips from their brand spanking new coach, and a defense full of average and below average players has been dumped in favor of....... um... well, different but just as average and below average (Or ancient has been stars) players.

McDaniels is going to trade Jay Cutler. And the Broncos will insist it was all his fault. And some of you will believe them. But I won't. They will get perhaps some draft picks and a player. But it won't even come close to the value of a bonafide franchise quarterback. And it will further alienate myself and millions of fans from our Broncos, destroy any sense of loyalty to it's players for years to come, and turn the franchise into a cold, soulless enterprise with little to cheer for. Awesome.

You just summed up my feelings perfectly.

[EMB6903]

Why? Because you cant argue with the numbers that show that the 2 are almost identical.......except for the record?


no, because its dumb... thats why

you dont compare players 1st 3 years to a VETERAN WHO HAD BEEN PLAYING 6 SEASONS prior to coming to Denver... Well you can its just extremely ignorant

Young players take time to adjust... I assume most would understand that.

[WARHORSE]

Offensive Rank Pts

2003 10
2004 9
2005 7
2006 17
2007 21
2008 16

Offensive Rank Yards

2003 7
2004 5
2005 5
2006 21
2007 11
2008 2

Franchise?


Uh, thats what happens when you have no running game in the redzone.

Are you still with us?

[Rex]

no, because its dumb... thats why

you dont compare players 1st 3 years to a VETERAN WHO HAD BEEN PLAYING 6 SEASONS prior to coming to Denver, Young players take time to adjust... I assume most would understand that.

Oh. So now we are back to the "Cutler is young" argument.

Hmm....I guess that makes Big Ben and freak of effing nature. Not too mention things that other "franchise" QBs have done in their first 3 years in the league. At this pace, Matt Ryan might make all standing QB stats look like Mo the Midget from Missouri.


Pointless rhetoric. You can be upset that Cutler was almost traded or is going to be traded......but dont go telling me how he is an irreplacable talent that only shows up in this league rarely. Because given similar situations, even washed up no talent hacks like Jake Plummer can put up similar numbers.

[EMB6903]

and still only threw 2 more int's and had 2 more TDs that Cutler........

without Marshall, Sheffler, Graham, and Royal........and Clady

With Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, and a DOMINANT RUN GAME

but like I said its stupid to compare a QB's first 3 years in the league to the last 4 years of another QB

How about we compare Cutlers 1st 3 years in the NFL to Plummers first 3 years in the NFL...

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Keep flexin' your muscle like that CSWIL and I might have to get you a new shirt.

[Rex]

Uh, thats what happens when you have no running game in the redzone.

Are you still with us?

Spin some more War.

I have heard all of them. Too young, defense is bad, play calling, no RB, bad OL, helmet headset not working.

Like I said, be mad. Be pissed. I dont want him to be traded. I realize he is talented and more so than anyone since #7 to wear the jersey. I am just pointing out, that some of the ridiculous praise and one sided view points of smitten fans who annointed him the day he was drafted is silly.

[EMB6903]

Oh. So now we are back to the "Cutler is young" argument.

Hmm....I guess that makes Big Ben and freak of effing nature. Not too mention things that other "franchise" QBs have done in their first 3 years in the league. At this pace, Matt Ryan might make all standing QB stats look like Mo the Midget from Missouri.


Pointless rhetoric. You can be upset that Cutler was almost traded or is going to be traded......but dont go telling me how he is an irreplacable talent that only shows up in this league rarely. Because given similar situations, even washed up no talent hacks like Jake Plummer can put up similar numbers.


who said hes an irreplaceable QB?

yes the talent he has RARELY shows up... what other QB in the NFL has the measurables Jay has?

the guy has no weakness physically

and yes Cutler is young, hes still very young

here we go with the amateur's bringing up Ben Roethlisberger NOT REALIZING THAT BEN WAS THROWING THE BALL 17 TIMES A GAME during his superbowl year in 2005

winning= TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT

I love how you all try and make it sound like winning is a QB statistic and not a team accomplishment.

Big Ben wasnt the main reason the Steelers won in 2005 or 2008.. it was the defense.

[Northman]

I have no doubt that Cutler will be traded. Money in the bank. And it will be the unhappiest day in my fandom of the Broncos since, oh, a certain day with the numbers 55-10 in them one cold winter. I am a depressed Broncos fan and it won't get any better any time soon. And this may be years.

I will be my usual opinionated self here and announce firmly into the Jay Cutler camp. Losing Mike Shanahan was like a gnarly divorce with a trophy wife you had grown to love over more than a decade. Shanahan was the Broncos. In my opinion just as much as Elway. And though I initially thought his replacement (if that is even possible) would be good for the club, I didn't realize he would end up to be an ego-driven, punkass powermonger who would throw his weight around before he even got finished making introductions. And before the draft has even come around, look at what has happened.....

A team with a stellar offense with nowhere to go but up is in serious jeopardy of being made painfully lame, a coaching and talent evaluation staff that was CLEARLY on the right track got the cold shoulder from Bowlen while getting their pink slips from their brand spanking new coach, and a defense full of average and below average players has been dumped in favor of....... um... well, different but just as average and below average (Or ancient has been stars) players.

McDaniels is going to trade Jay Cutler. And the Broncos will insist it was all his fault. And some of you will believe them. But I won't. They will get perhaps some draft picks and a player. But it won't even come close to the value of a bonafide franchise quarterback. And it will further alienate myself and millions of fans from our Broncos, destroy any sense of loyalty to it's players for years to come, and turn the franchise into a cold, soulless enterprise with little to cheer for. Awesome.


Hate to say it but i think your absolutely correct.

[Rex]

With Rod Smith, Shannon Sharpe, and a DOMINANT RUN GAME

but like I said its stupid to compare a QB's first 3 years in the league to the last 4 years of another QB

How about we compare Cutlers 1st 3 years in the NFL to Plummers first 3 years in the NFL...

OK.
With the Cardinals he went to the playoffs his 2nd year. AND WON A GAME.

[Rex]

who said hes an irreplaceable QB?

yes the talent he has RARELY shows up... what other QB in the NFL has the measurables Jay has?

the guy has no weakness physically

and yes Cutler is young, hes still very young

here we go with the amateur's bringing up Ben Roethlisberger NOT REALIZING THAT BEN WAS THROWING THE BALL 17 TIMES A GAME during his superbowl year in 2005

winning= TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT

I love how you all try and make it sound like winning is a QB statistic and not a team accomplishment.

Big Ben wasnt the main reason the Steelers won in 2005 or 2008.. it was the defense.

LOL.

Amateur.

I think this conversation is over.

[EMB6903]

OK.
With the Cardinals he went to the playoffs his 2nd year. AND WON A GAME.

YET AGAIN


TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT

WINNING ISNT A QB STATISTIC rook

[fcspikeit]

Well, say we did get #1 and #20 for Jay Cutler from Detroit, I'd probably take someone like Aaron Curry at #1; and then use our #12 on the best defensive lineman, perhaps Tyson Jackson. #20; you can go for another defensive player or offensive value weapon. I wouldn't draft a quarterback in the top two or three rounds this year. I'm a firm believer that Denver could get someone to develop later on that could be as successful as Cassel was for McDaniels in New England.

So who would be the Broncos QB, the late round guy or Simms? :laugh::laugh::laugh::tsk:

[fcspikeit]

LMAO You just named 19% of the starting QB's in the NFL today. Maybe it isn't very hard to find a franchise QB!

Over what time span did all those guys come into the NFL? :listen:

[Rex]

YET AGAIN


TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT

WINNING ISNT A QB STATISTIC rook

1998 Arizona Cardinals Team Defense Rankings

Points Allowed 24
Yards Allowed 21

Leading Rusher: Adrian Murrell 1042
Leading Receiver: Rob Moore 67 Rec

Looks like a juggernaut.

[EMB6903]

But since CSWILL loves to compare Plummer to Cutler lets go for it

Plummers first 3 years in the league

1997- 9 game started 2,203 yards passing 53% passing 15 tds to 15 ints with a QB rating of 73

1998- 16 games started 3737 yards passing 59% passing 17 td's to 20 ints QB Rating of 75

1999-11 games started 2111 yards passing 52% passing 9 tds to 24 ints QB rating of 50

Jay Cutlers first 3 years in the NFL

2006- 1001 yards passing 59% passing 9 tds to 5 ints with a QB rating of 89

2007- 3500 yards passing 63% passing 20 TDS 14 ints QB rating 88

2008- 4500 yards passing 62% passing 25 tds 18 ints QB rating 86



HUGE DIFFERENCE

but atleast Plummer won a playoff game

[EMB6903]

1998 Arizona Cardinals Team Defense Rankings

Points Allowed 24
Yards Allowed 21

Leading Rusher: Adrian Murrell 1042
Leading Receiver: Rob Moore 67 Rec

Looks like a juggernaut.

not much but better then what Jay has had

took arizona 9-7 to get in the playoffs that year.... Im sure if Broncos had the 21st defense along with a 1000+ yard rusher we would have won the divison

[Rex]

But since CSWILL loves to compare Plummer to Cutler lets go for it

Plummers first 3 years in the league

1997- 9 game started 2,203 yards passing 53% passing 15 tds to 15 ints with a QB rating of 73

1998- 16 games started 3737 yards passing 59% passing 17 td's to 20 ints QB Rating of 75

1999-11 games started 2111 yards passing 52% passing 9 tds to 24 ints QB rating of 50

Jay Cutlers first 3 years in the NFL

2006- 1001 yards passing 59% passing 9 tds to 5 ints with a QB rating of 89

2007- 3500 yards passing 63% passing 20 TDS 14 ints QB rating 88

2008- 4500 yards passing 62% passing 25 tds 18 ints QB rating 86



HUGE DIFFERENCE

but atleast Plummer won a playoff game

Umm...Mr. Team Guy....

Would you consider walking in to Denver in 06 was a little better than Arizona in 97?

BTW in 1999 Arizona's entire team rushed for: 1207 yards led by Murrell with 553. And the defense was ranked 27 th. And Plummer was sacked 27 times in 11 games.

[Lonestar]

So Cassell is a stud after 1 season? Right.

was last year lead his team to a 11-5 season almost making the playoffs..

Yes I know his team was better but so was his division.. Whereas the broncos in a crappy division died on the vine losing three straight games with three to go.. One win by the team would have put them in the playoffs in this shit division..

yeah I'd call him a stud for last year..

[Rex]

not much but better then what Jay has had

took arizona 9-7 to get in the playoffs that year.... Im sure if Broncos had the 21st defense along with a 1000+ yard rusher we would have won the divison

Denver rushed for over 1800 yards this year with 4.8 ypc.

I agree about the defense.

But you proved my point....Cutler is a "franchise QB" and Plummer is a worthless piece of hippy shit.

Yet the numbers are shockingly similar.

[EMB6903]

Umm...Mr. Team Guy....

Would you consider walking in to Denver in 06 was a little better than Arizona in 97?

BTW in 1999 Arizona's entire team rushed for: 1207 yards led by Murrell with 553. And the defense was ranked 27 th. And Plummer was sacked 27 times in 11 games.


Who knows... Both were a mess at the time, when Jay took control our run game disapeared.... both were 2-3 in their first 5 games as a starter.

Plummer threw 17 ints to 20 TDS the year cards went to the playoffs...I some times wonder if he held them back if anything.

[EMB6903]

Denver rushed for over 1800 yards this year with 4.8 ypc.

I agree about the defense.

But you proved my point....Cutler is a "franchise QB" and Plummer is a worthless piece of hippy shit.

Yet the numbers are shockingly similar.

Numbers arent simular at all when looking at their first 3 years in the league.... IT ISNT CLOSE

and whats with you thinking Im hating on Jake?

Plummer was a warrior with Denver Ill always have respect for him... But he isnt close to Cutler as far as skills go.... even production

Jake Plummer was the guy who could only throw outside of the numbers, when ever he was in the pocket he was useless.

[JKcatch724]

I'm sick of all this comparing.

"Well... if Cutler was in Arizona in '97 or was on the Rams in '03... or... or..."

He's not. Jay Cutler is Jay Cutler. Comparing his situation to that of any quarterback EVER is irrelevant. Every situation is hugely different. So all of you wanting to hate on him, be my guest. If you want Shaun Hill, go root for the Niners. I'm sick of arguing at this point.

Let's just go ahead and throw him under the bus before we even get this franchise turned around. This is borderline pathetic.

[NameUsedBefore]

Trading Cutler would be disastrous on just about every level. The team would lose its best player; the fans would be pissed as hell; the franchise would take a hit, etc.

But the good thing is in the best trade possible we'd get two first rounders! And then when the team kicks open the cellar door and trips its drunken ass in, toppling down the stairs before breaking its back on the boiler and knocking itself out only to awaken to a few rats nibbling on its ears, we'll get some even better draft positions. From there the team can peer out the cellar door's cracks watching as the Chargers win it all and Philip ****ing Rivers gets to come down twice a year to shit in our mouth.

It will be awesome.

[Lonestar]

Trading Cutler would be disastrous on just about every level. The team would lose its best player; the fans would be pissed as hell; the franchise would take a hit, etc.

But the good thing is in the best trade possible we'd get two first rounders! And then when the team kicks open the cellar door and trips its drunken ass in, toppling down the stairs before breaking its back on the boiler and knocking itself out only to awaken to a few rats nibbling on its ears, we'll get some even better draft positions. From there the team can peer out the cellar door's cracks watching as the Chargers win it all and Philip ****ing Rivers gets to come down twice a year to shit in our mouth.

It will be awesome.

all because he was a pissy little kid with his panties in a wad.. yes it would be a shame..:salute:

[broncophan]

If he doesn't want to be a bronco......I say we trade him.
I definately don't want anyone on the broncos who doesn't want to be here........although there are a few on the team who want to be here that I don't want to be here.....:D

[BeefStew25]

If we trade him, we better have some options. That is all.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Jeff George or Jeff Garcia, Bief.

[fcspikeit]

all because he was a pissy little kid with his panties in a wad.. yes it would be a shame..:salute:

Agreed :salute:

By the time he realized how dumb a move it was to trade Cutler he will be out of a job.. :coffee:

[fcspikeit]

If he doesn't want to be a bronco......I say we trade him.
I definately don't want anyone on the broncos who doesn't want to be here........although there are a few on the team who want to be here that I don't want to be here.....:D

Where has he said he doesn't want to be a Bronco?

[MOtorboat]

Where has he said he doesn't want to be a Bronco?

Not that I believe the report, because I don't, but it has been reported and stated by you that he wants to be traded...

Just saying...

This indicates that he doesn't want to be a Bronco.

[atwater27]

Agreed :salute:

By the time he realized how dumb a move it was to trade Cutler he will be out of a job.. :coffee:

I don't care who you are that thar's funny!

[Shazam!]

I don't want Cutler dealt... But as NUB said before, Jay is NOT the best player on the team. That is Champ. He's the only player on the Broncos who is the best in the League at his position. Granted he hasn't played like it recently and is gathering high mileage, but when your defense is a laughing stock, that's how it is, no matter how good you are.

I hope Denver works this ?!@# out. The Cassel deal may have been ok with the #1 and three 1st Rd picks in total, but now it isn't looking good. Stafford? I don't know. Kiss and make up guys, seriously.

[fcspikeit]

Not that I believe the report, because I don't, but it has been reported and stated by you that he wants to be traded...

Just saying...

This indicates that he doesn't want to be a Bronco.


Stated by me? I said Cutler wants to be traded? :laugh:

No I said I could see why he would rather work for someone who places his worth at league value.. He did supposedly say if the Broncos wont commit to him long term he would rather be traded to someone who would.. However that hasn't been confirmed but it only makes sense, I mean who the hell wouldn't?

[Lonestar]

Where has he said he doesn't want to be a Bronco?


Not that I believe the report, because I don't, but it has been reported and stated by you that he wants to be traded...

Just saying...

This indicates that he doesn't want to be a Bronco.

think the phrase actions speak louder than words just might apply here..

[DenBronx]

think the phrase actions speak louder than words just might apply here..

so far its all words and no actions though. when cutler doesnt show for workouts then ill agree on the actions part and ill start calling for his head.

mike keith said it best on nfl network tonight. "the thing that stands out to me is they just won their first bowl game in over 50 years. their (vanderbilts) process upward started when jay cutler came to vanderbuilt. he showed vanderbuilt how to compete with his additude. he's not going to be happy when things are not going the way they should be going and he's not afraid to back down from a d-lineman, phillip rivers or anyone. he's not afraid to back off of a fight and thats how you expect jay to react in the nfl."


i dont think there is anyone else on our football team that wants to win as much as cutler.

[Lonestar]

so far its all words and no actions though. when cutler doesnt show for workouts then ill agree on the actions part and ill start calling for his head.

mike keith said it best on nfl network tonight. "the thing that stands out to me is they just won their first bowl game in over 50 years. their (vanderbilts) process upward started when jay cutler came to vanderbuilt. he showed vanderbuilt how to compete with his additude. he's not going to be happy when things are not going the way they should be going and he's not afraid to back down from a d-lineman, phillip rivers or anyone. he's not afraid to back off of a fight and thats how you expect jay to react in the nfl."


i dont think there is anyone else on our football team that wants to win as much as cutler.

With his/agents/sources stupid comments to the reporters you could not prove that by me..

[claymore]

Depends on what we get for him. If it isn't at least two first rounders, you don't get to the table to even bargain. I'd drool over Detroit's two first rounders, and the possibility of more.
Well the reality is detroit would never give us 2 first rounders.

[claymore]

With his/agents/sources stupid comments to the reporters you could not prove that by me..

Using your logic, Mcdaniels doesn't want to win either.

[roomemp]

How many years did Green Bay wait after Starr retired?

How many years did it take San Diego to get one after Fouts retired?

How long for Cinci after Boomer?

San Fransisco sure lucked out with Alex Smith right?

Have the Bills found one yet?

How about the Jets after Namath retired?

Miami is still looking for one as well... I dont think they would expect Pennington to be the long-term answer

took the Cowboys and the Broncos 6-7 years as well, Baltimore finally lucked out with Flacco after trying to bring in a franchise QB since the franchise began.

Hardest thing to do is find a franchise QB, to trade one away because our feelings are hurt would be stupid.

How long did it take the Patriots?????? Bledsoe, Brady, Cassel. Not a great argument

[claymore]

How long did it take the Patriots?????? Bledsoe, Brady, Cassel. Not a great argument

Your point is moot.

Brady is the only SB/HOF QB they have ever had. Bledsoe was an alright QB, and Cassel has played one year as a backup. And he did "OK" he wasnt even close to being great.

The only team that replaced their starting QB with an upgrade, or Future HOF QB was the 49'ers with Steve young.

[roomemp]

Your point is moot.

Brady is the only SB/HOF QB they have ever had. Bledsoe was an alright QB, and Cassel has played one year as a backup. And he did "OK" he wasnt even close to being great.

The only team that replaced their starting QB with an upgrade, or Future HOF QB was the 49'ers with Steve young.

Some would argue Dan Marino and Jim Kelly were not great QB's because they never one the big one.

Also we are not the 49ers of the 80's. Jay Cutler is not Montana. We could definately upgrade from Cutler. Saying that, I don't want to because Jay is our fearless leader.

[claymore]

Some would argue Dan Marino and Jim Kelly were not great QB's because they never one the big one.

Also we are not the 49ers of the 80's. Jay Cutler is not Montana. We could definately upgrade from Cutler. Saying that, I don't want to because Jay is our fearless leader.

Name an upgrade.

[Dreadnought]

Some would argue Dan Marino and Jim Kelly were not great QB's because they never one the big one.

I know some folks try to make this argument. The World is full of ridiculous arguments, and thats just one of them.

[roomemp]

Name an upgrade.


There are no upgrades available through trade or free agency thats why it would be crazy to trade Jay. It would be crazy regardless. My point is Jay is not one of those untouchable players as of yet. Montana, Young, and Manning were all untouchable in their prime.

[claymore]

There are no upgrades available through trade or free agency thats why it would be crazy to trade Jay. It would be crazy regardless. My point is Jay is not one of those untouchable players as of yet. Montana, Young, and Manning were all untouchable in their prime.

Cutler should be untouchable. Very few scenarios would make this team better with him gone.

Even a Herschall Walker type trade is bad In my eyes cause we have no proof how the new front office will do with its draft.

Best case scenario on any trade, you get a HOF type person. That still doesnt help us much unless we can get a QB as good or better than Cutler soon. And that just doesnt happen very often.

[G_Money]

Super Bowl winning QBs the last however many years:


Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XIX - HOF
Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - SB XX potential greatest defense of all time
Phil Simms, New York Giants - SB XXI great defense, HOF head coach
Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - SB XXII great defense, HOF head coach
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIII - HOF
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIV - HOF
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV great defense, HOF head coach
Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI great defense, HOF head coach
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVII - HOF
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII - HOF
Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX - HOF
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX - HOF
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI - HOF
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII - HOF
John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII - HOF
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV - HOF candidate and multiple league MVP
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV potential greatest defense of all time
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI - HOF candidate
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII incredible defense
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII - HOF candidate
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX - HOF candidate
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL - Incredible defense, building HOF resume
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI - HOF candidate
Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII - Incredible defense, #1 draft pick
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII - Incredible defense, building HOF resume

Maybe that's all coincidence, but it sure looks to me like you would want 2 of the following to win titles: HOF QB credentials, a great defense, and/or a HOF head coach. The Steelers have gone with the great D and burgeoning HOF QB, the Pats had all 3, the Colts had the coach and the QB, we had the coach and the QB, same with GB, the Boys had all 3...

If you only have one of the 3, then it had better be defense and it had better be the greatest defense in the league.

We dumped our HOF head coach, had the worst defense in the league, and are now in some fashion contemplating trading the best QB we've had since our HOF QB, with the skills to be an upper-echelon QB himself.

I'm having trouble right now seeing the building of a champion with what we've might have left. McDaniels sure must believe either he's a HOF head coach who can build whatever other QB he gets into a HOFer himself, or that Nolan can turn the worst D in the league into the best D in the league with a couple of draft-picks and some second-tier free agents.

I would try to make the job easier on myself by using the QB I've got to get me places. Even if Cutler is Belechick's Bledsoe, Bill still ran with him until he got lucky with Brady. He didn't feud with Bledsoe upon arriving and throw his team into turmoil.

If we had never had this controversy, drafted Brown from Central Arkansas or Graham Harrell in the 6th as Cutler's future backup and they wound up being so good we could let Cutler walk in FA, well, that would be interesting.

But this? I can't see how we're still talking about this, and why it hasn't been put to bed yet. Stubbornness and stupidity on both sides, apparently. :rolleyes:

It's not exactly helping us get back on our feet and return to championship form, that's for sure, because now it really isn't going away, not even once the season gets here. They've let it get too big for that.

~G

[claymore]

Super Bowl winning QBs the last however many years:



Maybe that's all coincidence, but it sure looks to me like you would want 2 of the following to win titles: HOF QB credentials, a great defense, and/or a HOF head coach. The Steelers have gone with the great D and burgeoning HOF QB, the Pats had all 3, the Colts had the coach and the QB, we had the coach and the QB, same with GB, the Boys had all 3...

If you only have one of the 3, then it had better be defense and it had better be the greatest defense in the league.

We dumped our HOF head coach, had the worst defense in the league, and are now in some fashion contemplating trading the best QB we've had since our HOF QB, with the skills to be an upper-echelon QB himself.

I'm having trouble right now seeing the building of a champion with what we've might have left. McDaniels sure must believe either he's a HOF head coach who can build whatever other QB he gets into a HOFer himself, or that Nolan can turn the worst D in the league into the best D in the league with a couple of draft-picks and some second-tier free agents.

I would try to make the job easier on myself by using the QB I've got to get me places. Even if Cutler is Belechick's Bledsoe, Bill still ran with him until he got lucky with Brady. He didn't feud with Bledsoe upon arriving and throw his team into turmoil.

If we had never had this controversy, drafted Brown from Central Arkansas or Graham Harrell in the 6th as Cutler's future backup and they wound up being so good we could let Cutler walk in FA, well, that would be interesting.

But this? I can't see how we're still talking about this, and why it hasn't been put to bed yet. Stubbornness and stupidity on both sides, apparently. :rolleyes:

It's not exactly helping us get back on our feet and return to championship form, that's for sure, because now it really isn't going away, not even once the season gets here. They've let it get too big for that.

~G
IMO the squashing needs to come from Pat Bowlen. McDaniels has already failed.

[BRONCOSFREAK765]

Why, so we can draft a bust QB. Got a GREAT QB class this year.:coffee:

because cassell may be available next year..lol

[TXBRONC]

There are no upgrades available through trade or free agency thats why it would be crazy to trade Jay. It would be crazy regardless. My point is Jay is not one of those untouchable players as of yet. Montana, Young, and Manning were all untouchable in their prime.

I also don't see a quarterback in this draft that I would be willing to spend a number one pick on.

[CoachChaz]

I also don't see a quarterback in this draft that I would be willing to spend a number one pick on.

Agreed...but I think there are a few guys in the lower rounds that are going to be better than the top guys anyway

[Lonestar]

Using your logic, Mcdaniels doesn't want to win either.


if you have not read it it is time to read the thread TX started on BUS the moron..

I said it when this started FOLLOW the MONEY..

After you read that thread please send me a PM with an apology so it will not have to be public..

[claymore]

if you have not read it it is time to read the thread TX started on BUS the moron..

I said it when this started FOLLOW the MONEY..

After you read that thread please send me a PM with an apology so it will not have to be public..

LOL......

Im sure Bus is at fault to some degree.

[Lonestar]

Did anyone stop to think that Pat is/has stepped back because he, Mc Kid and the Front office know where this is going.. Huge contract in 2010 with nothing but crapola un between ..


as long as bus is driving this, it is lose lose for DEN fans..

[Nature Boy]

Bring Back Mikey!!! Bring Back Mikey!!! Bring Back Mikey!!!

.

[claymore]

Did anyone stop to think that Pat is/has stepped back because he, Mc Kid and the Front office know where this is going.. Huge contract in 2010 with nothing but crapola un between ..


as long as bus is driving this, it is lose lose for DEN fans..

I think they stepped back because they know they really screwed up. I think 2010 is an issue to, but they need to worry about today first, because tomorrow will come on its own.

[Lonestar]

LOL......

Im sure Bus is at fault to some degree.

do you think jay is smart enough to have thought all of this up?

Did you read TX's cook thread if not time to do so..

http://broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34938

then lets talk

[Nature Boy]

It's all McDummie's fault. Bring Back Mikey!!!

.

[BroncoJoe]

It's all McDummie's fault. Bring Back Mikey!!!

.

Hate to break this to you, but "Mikey" isn't coming back.

[claymore]

do you think jay is smart enough to have thought all of this up?

Did you read TX's cook thread if not time to do so..

http://broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34938

then lets talk

Yeah I read it. The truth is all somewhere in the middle. I blame McDaniels cause he is in charge. Cook is just a shark and got a whif of the blood.

[Lonestar]

Yeah I read it. The truth is all somewhere in the middle. I blame McDaniels cause he is in charge. Cook is just a shark and got a whif of the blood.


well had mikey been there would he have been the bad guy also?

and do not say it would not have happened had mikey still been here as if it is bus chumming the waters it very well might have happened..

follow the money folks..

[roomemp]

I am so sick of this of this crap. If he reports to voluntary worouts, then he will be fine. If he doesn't, the Broncos should start fielding the calls from other teams.

[MasterShake]

I am so sick of this of this crap. If he reports to voluntary worouts, then he will be fine. If he doesn't, the Broncos should start fielding the calls from other teams.

Agreed. Nothing but speculation and escalation. Before you know it 4 games in and t.v. commentators will be like, "Wow. Another 300yd 4 td game. Can you believe that they were actually thinking about trading this kid?"
:lol:

Its so out of our control it aint even funny. I'm watching the Broncos regardless of the outcome.

[Lonestar]

Agreed. Nothing but speculation and escalation. Before you know it 4 games in an t.v. commentators will be like, "Wow. Another 300yd 4 td game. Can you believe that they were actually thinking about trading this kid?"
:lol:

Its so out of our control it aint even funny. I'm watching the Broncos regardless of the outcome.

I've been watching the Broncos/donkeys for going on 5 decades.. and will continue to regardless of what happens in the cutler saga..

this current crap is a mere pimple on someones ass.. as compared to all of the other drama over those years..


sooner or later that pimple jay is gonna burst, get infected, have to be removed..or heal... his choice at this point.. nothing any of us can do to change his mind..


another top of page post ... seems like 5 today..

[TXBRONC]

Agreed. Nothing but speculation and escalation. Before you know it 4 games in and t.v. commentators will be like, "Wow. Another 300yd 4 td game. Can you believe that they were actually thinking about trading this kid?"
:lol:

Its so out of our control it aint even funny. I'm watching the Broncos regardless of the outcome.

Same here I will be watching regardless of the outcome. That being said I think Jay will still be our quarterback for many years to come.

[roomemp]

Same here I will be watching regardless of the outcome. That being said I think Jay will still be our quarterback for many years to come.

Agreed. I see this whole thing getting worked out in the end. Jay will still be lining up behind center for the Broncos next year

[bcbronc]

Super Bowl winning QBs the last however many years:



Maybe that's all coincidence, but it sure looks to me like you would want 2 of the following to win titles: HOF QB credentials, a great defense, and/or a HOF head coach. The Steelers have gone with the great D and burgeoning HOF QB, the Pats had all 3, the Colts had the coach and the QB, we had the coach and the QB, same with GB, the Boys had all 3...

If you only have one of the 3, then it had better be defense and it had better be the greatest defense in the league.

We dumped our HOF head coach, had the worst defense in the league, and are now in some fashion contemplating trading the best QB we've had since our HOF QB, with the skills to be an upper-echelon QB himself.

I'm having trouble right now seeing the building of a champion with what we've might have left. McDaniels sure must believe either he's a HOF head coach who can build whatever other QB he gets into a HOFer himself, or that Nolan can turn the worst D in the league into the best D in the league with a couple of draft-picks and some second-tier free agents.

I would try to make the job easier on myself by using the QB I've got to get me places. Even if Cutler is Belechick's Bledsoe, Bill still ran with him until he got lucky with Brady. He didn't feud with Bledsoe upon arriving and throw his team into turmoil.

If we had never had this controversy, drafted Brown from Central Arkansas or Graham Harrell in the 6th as Cutler's future backup and they wound up being so good we could let Cutler walk in FA, well, that would be interesting.

But this? I can't see how we're still talking about this, and why it hasn't been put to bed yet. Stubbornness and stupidity on both sides, apparently. :rolleyes:

It's not exactly helping us get back on our feet and return to championship form, that's for sure, because now it really isn't going away, not even once the season gets here. They've let it get too big for that.

~G

the thing is, you don't win the Superbowl with the league's worst defense, no matter who your qb is. Jay or no Jay, we aren't going to be a contender next year, unless you believe Hill and Goodman and a new scheme was all we were missing. so if we do have to start from scratch at the QB position, realistically we have at least 2-3 seasons before that even matters, in the big picture, winning Lombardi's kind of way.

and whether one likes McD or not, he does deserve the benefit of the doubt at QB if nowhere else. You simple can't argue with the results he got out of Brady and Cassel. So if he doesn't feel Cutler brings the right skill set to run his offense, then McD deserves the benefit of the doubt on this. and clearly Bowlen agrees. Pat didn't feel it necessary to get Cutler's permission before canning Shanny, and didn't feel it necessary to keep Bates even though Cutler went public about the situation. And Pat hasn't felt it necessary to give Cutler a vote of support in this situation.

obviously there is risk involved with moving Cutler. huge risk. a decade later we could be hearing about the "Cutler Curse" kind of risk. but people said trading Bledsoe to a divisional rival was a huge risk for NE at the time. it wasn't. and that's the thing. you don't become a powerhouse franchise without taking some risks.

I don't want to see Cutler shipped out. He's one of the best young qbs in the game with oodles of talent. but if he's not going to buy into the program, or if McD has serious doubts about Jay's ability to run the program, then bottom line: he's not the guy to take us to the promise land.

if that's the case (I personally don't agree, but noone pays me $$$ to run a pro football team) then NOW is the right time to go in a different direction. Like people have said, it's tough to find a franchise qb. so if we have to start looking, the sooner the better. but for McD to not make moves because he's afraid they might not work, is simply the mindset of a loser. I'm willing to put some trust in Bowlen that he didn't hire a loser to run our team.

[Dortoh]

Some will not like this but its too damn funny to not share. This in no way represents my opinons FWIW

My I present EmoJay

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4898/emojay.jpg

[tubby]

Some will not like this but its too damn funny to not share. This in no way represents my opinons FWIW

My I present EmoJay

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4898/emojay.jpg

LOL!!

Thanks for the new avatard.

[bcbronc]

Some will not like this but its too damn funny to not share. This in no way represents my opinons FWIW

My I present EmoJay

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4898/emojay.jpg

It's actually a step in the right direction as far as his hair goes. :laugh:

[Poet]

who said hes an irreplaceable QB?

yes the talent he has RARELY shows up... what other QB in the NFL has the measurables Jay has?

the guy has no weakness physically

and yes Cutler is young, hes still very young

here we go with the amateur's bringing up Ben Roethlisberger NOT REALIZING THAT BEN WAS THROWING THE BALL 17 TIMES A GAME during his superbowl year in 2005

winning= TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT

I love how you all try and make it sound like winning is a QB statistic and not a team accomplishment.

Big Ben wasnt the main reason the Steelers won in 2005 or 2008.. it was the defense.

A ton of QBs have similar talent. You know who had more talent that Cutler? Akili Smith did! Whooooofrigginhoooo. Ryan Leaf had more talent than Cutler, talent is overrated. Every year some giant talent comes into the league. Joe Montana didn't have a lot of talent, he's a top five QB of all time.

In 2005 Big Ben threw the ball 17 times a game. Then in the playoffs he killed people. He had a relavtively bad SB, but he made several good plays and was a factor to the Steelers winning the SB. Since that year he has proven that he is more than a game manager, and in the entire history of the NFL there has never been a better QB as far as starting young and killing it.

In 2008 Big Ben was as big of a reason for the Steelers winning the SB as any individual player. Comparing him to an entire TEAM UNIT is not really fair.

[bud]

Barring a miracle, the Broncos need their coach and quarterback to win now. Cutler isn't going anywhere.

Quit listening to the media. They just want a story to print. I'm tired of hearing advice for Bowlen, McDaniels, and Cutler from people that don't give a darn about the Broncos.

[bud]

A ton of QBs have similar talent. You know who had more talent that Cutler? Akili Smith did! Whooooofrigginhoooo. Ryan Leaf had more talent than Cutler, talent is overrated. Every year some giant talent comes into the league. Joe Montana didn't have a lot of talent, he's a top five QB of all time.

In 2005 Big Ben threw the ball 17 times a game. Then in the playoffs he killed people. He had a relavtively bad SB, but he made several good plays and was a factor to the Steelers winning the SB. Since that year he has proven that he is more than a game manager, and in the entire history of the NFL there has never been a better QB as far as starting young and killing it.

In 2008 Big Ben was as big of a reason for the Steelers winning the SB as any individual player. Comparing him to an entire TEAM UNIT is not really fair.

Step away from the pipe. Sleep it off.

Akili Smith?.. Ryan Leaf?..

Please. Neither man was even close to the package Cutler brings to the field.

Not only does Cutler have a bigger cannon than either man, there are other measures of natural talent--beyond arm strength and mobility.

There is also accuracy and field vision.

That's talent too. You can't teach that.

Cutler has those things.

Smith and Leaf had tunnel vision; both men also misfired regularly...

Cutler bends the rules with his mechanics from time to time. Smith and Leaf flat out broke the rules--and paid the price.

Montana was short on the arm strength. And, Ben Whatshisname only sees half the field.

[Poet]

Step away from the pipe. Sleep it off.

Akili Smith?.. Ryan Leaf?..

Please. Neither man was even close to the package Cutler brings to the field.

Not only does Cutler have a bigger cannon than either man, there are other measures of natural talent--beyond arm strength and mobility.

There is also accuracy and field vision.

That's talent too. You can't teach that.

Cutler has those things.

Smith and Leaf had tunnel vision; both men also misfired regularly...

Cutler bends the rules with his mechanics from time to time. Smith and Leaf flat out broke the rules--and paid the price.

Montana was short on the arm strength. And, Ben Whatshisname only sees half the field.

I was talking about talent, raw physical tools.

Please either read the post thoroughly.

[EMB6903]

A ton of QBs have similar talent. You know who had more talent that Cutler? Akili Smith did! Whooooofrigginhoooo. Ryan Leaf had more talent than Cutler, talent is overrated. Every year some giant talent comes into the league. Joe Montana didn't have a lot of talent, he's a top five QB of all time.

In 2005 Big Ben threw the ball 17 times a game. Then in the playoffs he killed people. He had a relavtively bad SB, but he made several good plays and was a factor to the Steelers winning the SB. Since that year he has proven that he is more than a game manager, and in the entire history of the NFL there has never been a better QB as far as starting young and killing it.

In 2008 Big Ben was as big of a reason for the Steelers winning the SB as any individual player. Comparing him to an entire TEAM UNIT is not really fair.


Leaf and Smith had more talent then Cutler? LMAO!


tell me what these 2 did better then Cutler? big ben didnt really have a great year this year, the #1 reason Steelers are superbowl champs is because that defense, not Big Ben

[MOtorboat]

Leaf and Smith had more talent then Cutler? LMAO!


tell me what these 2 did better then Cutler? big ben didnt really have a great year this year, the #1 reason Steelers are superbowl champs is because that defense, not Big Ben

Not that I agree with King, but Smith and Leaf were drafted higher in fairly talented QB classes. So, with that said, that means scouts saw more talent in those two players than Cutler. It doesn't mean that they ended up better than Cutler, only that scouts thought more highly of them coming out college. Talent, not results. There's a big difference.

[Poet]

Leaf and Smith had more talent then Cutler? LMAO!


tell me what these 2 did better then Cutler? big ben didnt really have a great year this year, the #1 reason Steelers are superbowl champs is because that defense, not Big Ben

This is sad. Yes, they did. They had all the talent in the world, that was not their problem.

Talent does not equal production. Production does not equal talent. All talent really is the physical tools to do a job.

[broncohead]

Not that I agree with King, but Smith and Leaf were drafted higher in fairly talented QB classes. So, with that said, that means scouts saw more talent in those two players than Cutler. It doesn't mean that they ended up better than Cutler, only that scouts thought more highly of them coming out college. Talent, not results. There's a big difference.

That makes no sense what so ever... Different draft classes and different talent in those classes push different players up and down on the draft boards.

[Poet]

That makes no sense what so ever... Different draft classes and different talent in those classes push different players up and down on the draft boards.

That's fine, but Ryan Leaf was thought to be more talented physically than Peyton Manning by damn near everyone. Akili Smith had an incredible arm, great mobility, a fast release, and was able to scramble.

He had more talent or just as much as Jay Cutler.

He was also one of the WORST draft picks ever.

Get the point?

[bud]

I don't use the word "talent" to describe draft positions. I also don't use draft position to call a player "talented".

Experience tells me that the two are loosely correlated. But, that's as far as it goes...

In terms of "potential", the same is true. There's nothing but a loose correlation between "potential" and draft position...

If you want to talk about draft position, say so.

Because, we clearly aren't talking about talent when we start comparing scrubs like Smith and Leaf to Cutler.

[MOtorboat]

That makes no sense what so ever... Different draft classes and different talent in those classes push different players up and down on the draft boards.

How?

In 1999, Duante Culpepper and Donovan McNabb were taken. I'd say that turned out pretty well for the two teams that drafted them.

In 1998, Peyton Manning, Charlie Batch and Matt Hasselbeck were taken. Again, I'd say that those three players turned out fairly well, especially the first and the last.

Scouts saw enough in both of the aforementioned players to take them in the Top 3. That's saying something. Cutler was taken at No. 11. Passed over by 10 teams. :noidea:

[MOtorboat]

Because, we clearly aren't talking about talent when we start comparing scrubs like Smith and Leaf to Cutler.

Based on what criteria?

Accomplishment in the NFL? Then fine, you've got a point. But all three players were comparable talent-wise, according to NFL scouts.

[Gamechanger]

That's fine, but Ryan Leaf was thought to be more talented physically than Peyton Manning by damn near everyone. Akili Smith had an incredible arm, great mobility, a fast release, and was able to scramble.

He had more talent or just as much as Jay Cutler.

He was also one of the WORST draft picks ever.

Get the point?

it is also noted that Akili Smith was stupid

[bud]

Based on what criteria?

Accomplishment in the NFL? Then fine, you've got a point. But all three players were comparable talent-wise, according to NFL scouts.

Clearly, the word "talent" was misused. We are talking about draft position and draft ratings (scouting).

Pre-draft analysis and draft positions are not an honest evaluation of a player's talent in the NFL. And, that's what a general use of the word "talent" with an NFL player's name means: talent as an NFL player.

So, yes; that is the criteria.

If a person wants to talk about draft ratings or draft positions, then do it. But, there's no need to recklessly throw around terms.

[MOtorboat]

Clearly, the word "talent" was misused.

Really?


There is also accuracy and field vision.


Smith and Leaf had tunnel vision; both men also misfired regularly...

Um...I'm sorry, but did you watch 2008? Forcing it to Marshall? Losing to the Chiefs? Losing to the Raiders? A combined 5 wins, and TWO of those came against the Broncos. That's pathetic.

[WARHORSE]

Want to know how easy is it to find a QB, look at Atlanta, who have seem to go from one franchise QB to another.

Face it, with or without Cutler, Denver isn't doing anything this upcoming season. Not with our defense, not with our schedule, and not while going through our tranisition of schemes both offensively and defensively.

If we trade Cutler now, we can get Sam Bradford next year. Not only is that kid taylor made to run an NFL spread, he'll be one of the brightest young minds in the NFL, AND he'll be even younger than Cutler which means we'll have him around longer.

Oh I like it. Sam Bradford. A QB that's done nothing but win, and win early. We would be THE next team in the NFL!


Im fighting the urge to say, "Man is that dumb."

With or without Cutler, we arent going to do anything?

Im really trying not to say, "Thats idiotic thinking at its best."

I mean, you know............ as if he makes no difference in what takes place next year.

Its..........just........so............HARD.


In that line of thinking, no one makes a difference, and the hell with it all.

Pitiful is REALLY trying to come out..............really.


As for Sam Bradford, hes just another clown who after his senior season could be ranked as a fourth rounder.

Why not rather say, 'We could get TOM BRADY!"

And even if Bradford, or McCoy, or whatever was touted as the next Brady, Montana, Elway, Manning.........you would have to have the FIRST pick in the draft to get him.

Did that actually come across the screen as you were eating your popcorn?

Please spare us all the talk about collegiate possibles AND.............Im REALLY trying not to say IGNORANT.......thinking that says it makes no difference next year whether we have Cutler or not.


Cause it makes a difference SilkMILK.:salute:

[bud]

Really?





Um...I'm sorry, but did you watch 2008? Forcing it to Marshall? Losing to the Chiefs? Losing to the Raiders? A combined 5 wins, and TWO of those came against the Broncos. That's pathetic.


You live by the sword. You die by the sword. You know that.

I tired of reading the same oversimplified garbage. Your theory goes against common knowledge. Find a respectable source to back you up. Good luck with that.

Guys like Sabol will be too busy questioning Denver's punchless rushing attack and porous defense.

You're asking Cutler to be Superman. He isn't and never will be.

I'm sorry you don't like Cutler's attitude. But, you are out on a limb with these crackpot theories.

Next, you're going to tell me you don't trust the government. And, that's why you know that the moon landing was staged in a tv studio...

Ridiculous.

[Shazam!]

And, that's why you know that the moon landing was staged in a tv studio...

Ridiculous.

You didn't know that either?

[MOtorboat]

You live by the sword. You die by the sword. You know that.

I tired of reading the same oversimplified garbage. Your theory goes against common knowledge. Find a respectable source to back you up. Good luck with that.

Guys like Sabol will be too busy questioning Denver's punchless rushing attack and porous defense.

You're asking Cutler to be Superman. He isn't and never will be.

I'm sorry you don't like Cutler's attitude. But, you are out on a limb with these crackpot theories.

Next, you're going to tell me you don't trust the government. And, that's why you know that the moon landing was staged in a tv studio...

Ridiculous.

Um, ok.

Not sure how any of this is a crack pot theory.

I don't like Cutler's attitude, true.

He's demanded a trade, and it appears as if that's going to happen. Doesn't change the fact that he can't lead this team to the playoffs. He's been given three chances, thus far. I can't really be more clear than that, can I?

You talked about tunnel vision. I asked if you watched him force the ball downfield towards Marshall when he was triple-teamed. You told me it was a "crack pot theory." I guess, I'm going to have to ask you to explain how him forcing the ball is a crack pot theory. Guess what? If we had won either the Chiefs or the Raiders game, we'd have been in the playoffs.

[Shazam!]

Guess what? If we had won either the Chiefs or the Raiders game, we'd have been in the playoffs.

Or the Bills.

[MOtorboat]

Or the Bills.

Your point?

181 yards and 2 rushing touchdowns. Cutler? A bunch of yards, no touchdowns and a crucial INT.

Again, your point?

[bud]

Um, ok.

Not sure how any of this is a crack pot theory.

I don't like Cutler's attitude, true.

He's demanded a trade, and it appears as if that's going to happen. Doesn't change the fact that he can't lead this team to the playoffs. He's been given three chances, thus far. I can't really be more clear than that, can I?

You talked about tunnel vision. I asked if you watched him force the ball downfield towards Marshall when he was triple-teamed. You told me it was a "crack pot theory." I guess, I'm going to have to ask you to explain how him forcing the ball is a crack pot theory. Guess what? If we had won either the Chiefs or the Raiders game, we'd have been in the playoffs.


Let me explain.

You're upset with Cutler right now...

So, you decided to make up a new history.

In your new revised history of the world, the idea of living solely on a gunslinging quarterback is no longer a prescription for failure.

In your new fantasy world, a team with a awful porous defense and punchless running game is no longer doomed to lose. No way. That team can ride a gunslinging quarterback to the postseason in this new imaginary universe.

This new invention has to exist to help support your world view: Jay Cutler is always bad.

That's why I called it a crackpot theory.

In the real world, it's never suprising to see a team in Denver's position finish at .500 or below. Given Denver's position, I would expect more interceptions. Quarterbacks can't do it alone; the run game and defense have to contribute.

That's where the real world and the imagined reality of Cutler diverge.

There's really no need to hatch a new revised history. Just say you don't like the way Cutler is behaving and leave it at that.

[Shazam!]

Your point?

181 yards and 2 rushing touchdowns. Cutler? A bunch of yards, no touchdowns and a crucial INT.

Again, your point?

That Cutler is responsible for 30 Buffalo points?

[MOtorboat]

Let me explain.

You're upset with Cutler right now...

So, you decided to make up a new history.

In your new revised history of the world, the idea of living solely on a gunslinging quarterback is no longer a prescription for failure.

In your new fantasy world, a team with a awful porous defense and punchless running game is no longer doomed to lose. No way. That team can ride a gunslinging quarterback to the postseason in this new imaginary universe.

This new invention has to exist to help support your world view: Jay Cutler is always bad.

That's why I called it a crackpot theory.

In the real world, it's never suprising to see a team in Denver's position finish at .500 or below. Given Denver's position, I would expect more interceptions. Quarterbacks can't do it alone; the run game and defense have to contribute.

That's where the real world and the imagined reality of Cutler diverge.

There's really no need to hatch a new revised history. Just say you don't like the way Cutler is behaving and leave it at that.

Your explanation sucks.

I have no theory. I only have what I watched. Since it doesn't suit your argument, feel free to call it "crack pot." Doesn't change anything.

You said that those quarterbacks lacked accuracy and had tunnel vision. Again: Did you not watch him throw into double and triple coverage repeatedly? Did those mistakes not cost the Broncos wins? This isn't about the end of the season where our running game collapsed. This is about the games this team should have, and could have won against inferior opponents, but because of bad decisions by the quarterback, they did not win.

[Shazam!]

...it's never suprising to see a team in Denver's position finish at .500 or below. Given Denver's position, I would expect more interceptions. Quarterbacks can't do it alone; the run game and defense have to contribute...

I've said it many times last season, even with a middling NFL defense Denver could've won the division in late December and Shanahan would've held his job for another season.

Cutler's play would've improved too because he didn't always have to play under the 'must score' pressure and to keep the defense off the field. He's not going to make the play 100% of the time regardless of how good the offense is. When the defense can't make the stop at 2nd and 22 you got friggin' problems that no QB no matter how good can fix.

See the 94' Broncos for many similarities.

[bud]

That Cutler is responsible for 30 Buffalo points?

Cutler is responsible for every point the Broncos scored against Buffalo.

You live by the sword. You die by the sword.

Denver has to start running the football, controlling the clock, and playing defense. The Broncos looked like a run n' shoot team last year.

[MOtorboat]

Cutler is responsible for every point the Broncos scored against Buffalo.

You live by the sword. You die by the sword.

Denver has to start running the football, controlling the clock, and playing defense. The Broncos looked like a run n' shoot team last year.

Buffalo: 26:49
Denver: 33:11

Rushing game: 181 yards, 2 touchdowns

:noidea:

Nothing against facts and all, but....:ostrich:

[Benetto]

Cutler will not be a Bronco...This has escalated waaay too far now. If the previous meeting couldn't smooth things over, then nothing can.

I am very hurt to see our franchise QB get treated like this...And see him react the way he did. When egotistical meets stubbornness, nothing can be resolved...

I can predict A LOT of angry and disgruntled fans in CO...If McDaniels crashes and burns in his first season, (I'm thinking anything less than the playoffs) the fans will be calling for his head in 2010. Shit, I know I will be.

This franchise has little to no chance of even winning one game in the playoffs, without #6...

[MOtorboat]

I am very hurt to see our franchise QB get treated like this...

Treated like what?

Treated like a player in the National Football League? Seriously?

[bud]

I've said it many times last season, even with a middling NFL defense Denver could've won the division in late December and Shanahan would've held his job for another season.

Cutler's play would've improved too because he didn't always have to play under the 'must score' pressure and to keep the defense off the field. He's not going to make the play 100% of the time regardless of how good the offense is. When the defense can't make the stop at 2nd and 22 you got friggin' problems that no QB no matter how good can fix.

See the 94' Broncos for many similarities.

Yeah.. I remember.

I recall Joe Montana's "amazing" comeback against our horrible defense. Wow. That was impressive... pfft...

Montana had some great comebacks; but that wasn't one of them. Montana had all day. And, the Broncos had Randy Hilliard at corner.

I remember one evening when Elway was standing at his own two, staring down the first starting cornerback tandum in history to be elected to the Pro Bowl together, and knowing he had to throw the football. Elway knew the pass protection wasn't going to hold; somebody was going to be in his face on every snap... And, then there was the noise...

The rest is history.

That's what I hate most about '94. The myth that Montana beat Elway at his own game.

Montana would have lost that night in Cleveland. 1994 didn't do anything to prove otherwise.

End rant.

[atwater27]

Treated like what?

Treated like a player in the National Football League? Seriously?

It's called loyalty. Cutler deserves it. If you don't feel that way I see no reason why you would possibly cheer for the Broncos over any other NFL team. Unless you just like them for their owner, Bowlen.

[MOtorboat]

It's called loyalty. Cutler deserves it. If you don't feel that way I see no reason why you would possibly cheer for the Broncos over any other NFL team. Unless you just like them for their owner, Bowlen.

Ah, yes.

"You don't side with Cutler, therefore you're not a Bronco fan."

Solid argument.

[Benetto]

Treated like what?

Treated like a player in the National Football League? Seriously?


I am a drunk, disgruntled fan...And its happening to my team...

I am surprised this is even happening...






If chokeland brought in a new Coach....Lets say Todd haley went there...

Would he even think of bringing in Kurt warner to replace Jamarcus? Even though Jay is a more experienced, smarter player than Jamarcus? I doubt it...You have to admit this is a special situation in the NFL.

[Benetto]

It's called loyalty. Cutler deserves it. If you don't feel that way I see no reason why you would possibly cheer for the Broncos over any other NFL team. Unless you just like them for their owner, Bowlen.


Mizzu has a trend..He loves to agree with what his buddies think is right. I have no problem with that, but it's fun arguing.

[Poet]

It's called loyalty. Cutler deserves it. If you don't feel that way I see no reason why you would possibly cheer for the Broncos over any other NFL team. Unless you just like them for their owner, Bowlen.

He deserves as much as any other player. Better players have been traded than Cutler. He isn't your franchise, he hasn't done anything amazing yet. He isn't a great QB yet.

There are Bronco fans who rooted for this team longer than I've been alive (21 years) who feel otherwise.

That is an awful argument.

[MOtorboat]

I am a drunk, disgruntled fan...And its happening to my team...

I am surprised this is even happening...

I can't believe it either, but that doesn't make it McDaniel's fault.


Mizzu has a trend..He loves to agree with what his buddies think is right. I have no problem with that, but it's fun arguing.

:noidea:

Not sure who you're talking about Ben, I've been leading the way on this one...I don't agree with Cutler.

[Poet]

Mizzu has a trend..He loves to agree with what his buddies think is right. I have no problem with that, but it's fun arguing.

:tsk:

[bud]

Buffalo: 26:49
Denver: 33:11

Rushing game: 181 yards, 2 touchdowns

:noidea:

Nothing against facts and all, but....:ostrich:

Facts? Really?

You're going to embarrassed.

Sorry to post this.

But you mentioned facts.

Jay Cutler -- 8 att / 30 yds / 2 TD
Eddie Royal -- 1 att / 71 yds
Pope, Bell, & Young -- 18 att / 80 yds / 0 TD

181 rushing yards? That is a fact.

But, other facts make it look... unimpressive.


It gets even worse when we start looking at the running backs after the first drive. :) In the second and third quarters, Denver couldn't buy a rushing yard from a running back... or a stop from the defense. Buffalo scored every single time they touched the ball in the 2nd and 3rd.

[Benetto]

I can't believe it either, but that doesn't make it McDaniel's fault.



:noidea:

Not sure who you're talking about Ben, I've been leading the way on this one...I don't agree with Cutler.



I haven't been around in the past 2 weeks so I might be wrong on that one...Just wanted to spice things up...I am furious over this shit man...I have been trying to let it pass and hope for the best...but nothing in return can be equal to a franchise QB that doesn't come around that often.

[MOtorboat]

Facts? Really?

You're going to embarrassed.

Sorry to post this.

But you mentioned facts.

Jay Cutler -- 8 att / 30 yds / 2 TD
Eddie Royal -- 1 att / 71 yds
Pope, Bell, & Young -- 18 att / 80 yds / 0 TD

181 rushing yards? That is a fact.

But, other facts make it look... unimpressive.


It gets even worse when we start looking at the running backs after the first drive. :) In the second and third quarters, Denver couldn't buy a rushing yard from a running back... or a stop from the defense. Buffalo scored every single time they touched the ball in the 2nd and 3rd.

You said run the ball and control the clock. Am I missing something?

I never said the Denver defense wasn't bad. It was. Very bad.

But this whole damn conversation started with you saying he has great field vision and makes good decisions. :noidea:

I'm not the one deflecting from my argument.

[atwater27]

Ah, yes.

"You don't side with Cutler, therefore you're not a Bronco fan."

Solid argument.

Not really what I am saying. I am talking about loyalty. What makes the Broncos a team you want to cheer for? Pat Bowlen? Really. Tell me why you like the Broncos. Why do you cheer for them.

Personally, I cheered for them last year because of Shanahan, Cutler, Scheffler, Royal, Clady, Champ and Dumervil. I cheered them for their amazing drafts as of late. I cheered them for their remarkable offensive prowess.

Bowlen fires Shanny. OK, maybe he had it coming for defensive issues.
Enter McDaniels....
1. DESTROYS the #2 offense in the league by offing the O-coordinator and other coaches.
2. ANNIHILATES the AMAZING draft guru team of goodmans.
3. BUMBLES ANF FUMBLES a lame attempt to trade Cutler for his huggy bear Cassell.

If Cutler is traded, I have a ton less loyalty with the team. And it will be directly related to the loss of loyalty to the individual Broncos I have been cheering for for years. MCDaniels hasn't earned my respect or loyalty as a fan. But he is on the verge of making me much less of a fan of the Denver Broncos.

[MOtorboat]

Not really what I am saying. I am talking about loyalty. What makes the Broncos a team you want to cheer for? Pat Bowlen? Really. Tell me why you like the Broncos. Why do you cheer for them.

Personally, I cheered for them last year because of Shanahan, Cutler, Scheffler, Royal, Clady, Champ and Dumervil. I cheered them for their amazing drafts as of late. I cheered them for their remarkable offensive prowess.

Bowlen fires Shanny. OK, maybe he had it coming for defensive issues.
Enter McDaniels....
1. DESTROYS the #2 offense in the league by offing the O-coordinator and other coaches.
2. ANNIHILATES the AMAZING draft guru team of goodmans.
3. BUMBLES ANF FUMBLES a lame attempt to trade Cutler for his huggy bear Cassell.

If Cutler is traded, I have a ton less loyalty with the team. And it will be directly related to the loss of loyalty to the individual Broncos I have been cheering for for years. MCDaniels hasn't earned my respect or loyalty as a fan. But he is on the verge of making me much less of a fan of the Denver Broncos.

I cheered for them because they are my team. If Cutler is traded, they are still my team.

I'm not going to get into some ridiculous "I'm a better fan"-pissing match. It's stupid.

[atwater27]

He deserves as much as any other player. Better players have been traded than Cutler. He isn't your franchise, he hasn't done anything amazing yet. He isn't a great QB yet.

There are Bronco fans who rooted for this team longer than I've been alive (21 years) who feel otherwise.

That is an awful argument.

If you don't think Cutler is the Franchise, you are ******* blinder than a bat in a padded room.

[MOtorboat]

If you don't think Cutler is the Franchise, you are ******* blinder than a bat in a padded room.

Then I guess the franchise needs to grow up, doesn't he?

[bud]

Your explanation sucks.

I have no theory. I only have what I watched. Since it doesn't suit your argument, feel free to call it "crack pot." Doesn't change anything.

You said that those quarterbacks lacked accuracy and had tunnel vision. Again: Did you not watch him throw into double and triple coverage repeatedly? Did those mistakes not cost the Broncos wins? This isn't about the end of the season where our running game collapsed. This is about the games this team should have, and could have won against inferior opponents, but because of bad decisions by the quarterback, they did not win.

Are we talking about Peyton Manning's collapses in the postseason or Jay Cutler?

I got confused.

Something about a running game and defense disappearing... and a quarterback trying to hard... and things going wrong..

Ok..

I'm certain now.

We are talking about Manning with the Colts.

[MOtorboat]

Are we talking about Peyton Manning's collapses in the postseason or Jay Cutler?

I got confused.

Something about a running game and defense disappearing... and a quarterback trying to hard... and things going wrong..

Ok..

I'm certain now.

We are talking about Manning with the Colts.

Deflect away...

[atwater27]

Then I guess the franchise needs to grow up, doesn't he?

I am including myself here, but who are we, jackasses arguing in a chat room in our free time, worshipping a sport people get paid millions to play, to tell ANYONE to grow up?

[MOtorboat]

I am including myself here, but who are we, jackasses arguing in a chat room in our free time, worshipping a sport people get paid millions to play, to tell ANYONE to grow up?

Good point.

Question my fan-hood again. It made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[atwater27]

Good point.

Question my fan-hood again. It made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Dude, you got all uppity and missed my point. Why do you cheer for the Broncos this year? Why did you last year. Or do you just like them for no reason. Prety vanilla if you ask me.

[bud]

Deflect away...

If you want to break the mold and convince people you aren't a crackpot, you need evidence.

I don't see any.

[MOtorboat]

If you want to break the mold and convince people you aren't a crackpot, you need evidence.

I don't see any.

I know you don't. That's not my problem.

Again.

You said that the quarterbacks mentioned above lacked field vision and forced the ball.

I asked what you saw when he threw into double and triple-coverage to Marshall?

You deflected that argument to the defense.

Have I missed anything?

[bud]

You said run the ball and control the clock. Am I missing something?

I never said the Denver defense wasn't bad. It was. Very bad.

But this whole damn conversation started with you saying he has great field vision and makes good decisions. :noidea:

I'm not the one deflecting from my argument.

No. The conversation started when I said he made better decisions than Smith and Leaf.

I said he sees the field better than Ben Whatshisface. I stand by that. Big Ben is a pick waiting to happen.

I said he has a stronger arm than Montana.

That's where the conversation started.

[MOtorboat]

Dude, you got all uppity and missed my point. Why do you cheer for the Broncos this year? Why did you last year. Or do you just like them for no reason. Prety vanilla if you ask me.

I haven't missed anyone's point. I don't appreciate being told that I only root for the Broncos if I support Cutler in this argument.

It's petty, at best. Pathetic, at most. And it really has nothing to do with my original posts.

[bud]

I know you don't. That's not my problem.

Again.

You said that the quarterbacks mentioned above lacked field vision and forced the ball.

I asked what you saw when he threw into double and triple-coverage to Marshall?

You deflected that argument to the defense.

Have I missed anything?

Yeah.

You didn't read my post.

Need me to repost it again for you?

[Benetto]

Jay has needed to grow up the minute he turned 18. Ever since I've seen him, or known about him he has always been a baby...On and off the field...

When a player has that much potential, you should accomodate...Every attitude is different...You don't lie to them like they're kids, if you don't want them to act like one.

[MOtorboat]

There is also accuracy and field vision.

That's talent too. You can't teach that.

Cutler has those things.

Re-quoted?

And I ask again...what did you see when he was forcing the ball to Marshall through double- and triple-coverage?

[atwater27]

I haven't missed anyone's point. I don't appreciate being told that I only root for the Broncos if I support Cutler in this argument.

It's petty, at best. Pathetic, at most. And it really has nothing to do with my original posts.

Dude, you need to get a clue. And you calling me Pathetic and Petty is like Michael Moore calling me fat. Go suck McDaniels ass all you want, it won't get you anywhere. Or the Broncos. Don't worry, you'll see the way.

[Benetto]

Re-quoted?

And I ask again...what did you see when he was forcing the ball to Marshall through double- and triple-coverage?

Could've been bad coaching.

I was the first and last person to shed tears when Shanny was fired...but he had a lot of faults...Especially teaching how to correct bad mistakes.

[MOtorboat]

Could've been bad coaching.

If that were the case, we took care of that by firing Shanahan and not re-taining Bates.

I bet that isn't a popular opinion.

[atwater27]

If that were the case, we took care of that by firing Shanahan and not re-taining Bates.

I bet that isn't a popular opinion.

WE didn't take care of shit. Bowlen let go of Shanny because his D stunk it up for several years and there was not enough perceived effort on his part to change it. You think Shanahan got canned for the #2 offense? You are smarter than I thought you were.

[Benetto]

If that were the case, we took care of that by firing Shanahan and not re-taining Bates.

I bet that isn't a popular opinion.


A lot of Jays stupid throws could have been the fear to have that TERRIBLE defense get back on the field. Trying to force 1std's etc..


Could be a variety of shit...

[bud]

Re-quoted?

And I ask again...what did you see when he was forcing the ball to Marshall through double- and triple-coverage?

Re-quoted out of context?

Good job!

You should work at Fox News!

Cutler does have field vision and decision making skills. That's why he is a starting quarterback in the NFL.

Smith and Leaf didn't have those things... That's why they didn't make it.

Thanks for spinning my post, though. Good job, Rush.

[bcbronc]

I think Cutler throwing into double and triple coverage has something to do with him being a 3rd year player.

[Watchthemiddle]

A lot of Jays stupid throws could have been the fear to have that TERRIBLE defense get back on the field. Trying to force 1std's etc..


Could be a variety of shit...

I am so tired of that excuse....:rolleyes:

That was one of his BIGGEST negatives coming out of college. I don't want to hear that he was scared to let the D go back on the field so he forced throws. He has done it his entire life. He forces throws, throws off his back foot, and can't lead.

Plain and simple. I really wish Jay would have been smart enough to keep his trap shut and let McD actually work after the trade fell through. I think McD could have done wonders with Jays talent.....

That said, maybe McD saw that Jay needed TOO much work and didn't want to invest the time into him......obviously.

[Benetto]

I am so tired of that excuse....:rolleyes:

That was one of his BIGGEST negatives coming out of college. I don't want to hear that he was scared to let the D go back on the field so he forced throws. He has done it his entire life. He forces throws, throws off his back foot, and can't lead.

Plain and simple. I really wish Jay would have been smart enough to keep his trap shut and let McD actually work after the trade fell through. I think McD could have done wonders with Jays talent.....

That said, maybe McD saw that Jay needed TOO much work and didn't want to invest the time into him......obviously.

Usually when a person starts their sentence with "maybe" and ends it with "obviously" they are either confused or are just arguing for shits sake...

If you're so sick of the excuses, why do you even bother? :rolleyes:

[nmbroncosfan]

Re-quoted out of context?

Good job!

You should work at Fox News!

Cutler does have field vision and decision making skills. That's why he is a starting quarterback in the NFL.

Smith and Leaf didn't have those things... That's why they didn't make it.

Thanks for spinning my post, though. Good job, Rush.


Whats wrong with Fox News, and Rush? Because they point out what an IDIOT we have for a President, and the losers we have in Congress. Guess you like socialism, and Communism. :elefant:

[Benetto]

With all due respect, this is not the P&R section...:coffee:

That last post is a amber, floating around 100 gasoline soaked rags.



Back on topic...Bus Cook is a SOB.

[broncohead]

I am so tired of that excuse....:rolleyes:

That was one of his BIGGEST negatives coming out of college. I don't want to hear that he was scared to let the D go back on the field so he forced throws. He has done it his entire life. He forces throws, throws off his back foot, and can't lead.

Plain and simple. I really wish Jay would have been smart enough to keep his trap shut and let McD actually work after the trade fell through. I think McD could have done wonders with Jays talent.....

That said, maybe McD saw that Jay needed TOO much work and didn't want to invest the time into him......obviously.

Jay would start on over 15 NFL teams. There isn't a single QB in the NFL that doesn't need work in some area of their game.

[Lonestar]

Jay would start on over 15 NFL teams. There isn't a single QB in the NFL that doesn't need work in some area of their game.


yes he would start for some of the bottom dwellers no doubt about that.. but woulds the elite teams want him?

He has all the tools but many QB's have had them and BOMBED in the pros..

I'm not saying he will bomb but would he have done as well in DET as he did in DEN the past three years. how about PHX, SFO, KC, OAK, CLE, PIT instead of BEN, there are a lot of decent to good teams without the support of mikey and his innovation and the players he was surrounded by he may just have been another Alex Smith..

If he were traded to DET how do you think he would flourish or CLE..

[broncohead]

yes he would start for some of the bottom dwellers no doubt about that.. but woulds the elite teams want him?

He has all the tools but many QB's have had them and BOMBED in the pros..

I'm not saying he will bomb but would he have done as well in DET as he did in DEN the past three years. how about PHX, SFO, KC, OAK, CLE, PIT instead of BEN, there are a lot of decent to good teams without the support of mikey and his innovation and the players he was surrounded by he may just have been another Alex Smith..

If he were traded to DET how do you think he would flourish or CLE..

Any QB in Detroit wouldn't do well even Brady imo. It takes a team effort to win games not just one player. Even though it's a moot point, if Cutler was on PIT their offense would have been a lot better.

[Lonestar]

Any QB in Detroit wouldn't do well even Brady imo. It takes a team effort to win games not just one player. Even though it's a moot point, if Cutler was on PIT their offense would have been a lot better.

do you really see jay and a game manager? I do not I think his ego NOW is way to big..

I could be all wrong here but I doubt it..

[bud]

Whats wrong with Fox News, and Rush? Because they point out what an IDIOT we have for a President, and the losers we have in Congress. Guess you like socialism, and Communism. :elefant:

Nope.

I just don't like ignorant angry racists that enjoy watching the country blow all my money on wars... in countries that I don't care about.

How about making government more efficient, cutting taxes, and continuing to tune our market economy?...

Wouldn't that be nice?... Where has the elephant I once knew gone?

To get back on topic... I never said Cutler was "good" or "great" in the catagories you claimed. You made that up. I didn't say it.

[Watchthemiddle]

Any QB in Detroit wouldn't do well even Brady imo. It takes a team effort to win games not just one player. Even though it's a moot point, if Cutler was on PIT their offense would have been a lot better.


Well because of Cutler's ego, he might get to see wha the can do in Detroit or Cleveland. He will soon find out that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

[atwater27]

Bumped for the sheer bumpiness of it all.

[Poet]

Bumped for the sheer bumpiness of it all.

In related news, childish whining and crying has dropped 56% in the Colorado since the Jay Cutler trade.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Bumped for the sheer bumpiness of it all.

Simply bumptastic!

[atwater27]

In related news, childish whining and crying has dropped 56% in the Colorado since the Jay Cutler trade.

Don't worry, the crying will begin on opening day. :salute:

[Poet]

Don't worry, the crying will begin on opening day. :salute:

WHEN THE OPPOSING OFFENSE CRIES DUE TO THE MIGHTY AND MASTERFUL DENVER DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH SACKMASTERS!!!!!

I'm being optimistic for you. :salute: