The only improvement is getting more competent coaches and not cronies.

[lex]

I see a lot of blather about the FA signings. Theyre really not a lot different than what we have seen in the past. If anything, we're now overpaying for RB, which we hadnt typically done in the past. The only improvement over the old regime is putting in place better coaches, especially on defense. If we improve this year, this will be a major reason why.

[JKcatch724]

I see a lot of blather about the FA signings. Theyre really not a lot different than what we have seen in the past. If anything, we're now overpaying for RB, which we hadnt typically done in the past. The only improvement over the old regime is putting in place better coaches, especially on defense. If we improve this year, this will be a major reason why.

Oh man. You're gonna be really pissed if we win a lot of games next year aren't you?

[LRtagger]

I see a lot of blather about the FA signings. Theyre really not a lot different than what we have seen in the past. If anything, we're now overpaying for RB, which we hadnt typically done in the past. The only improvement over the old regime is putting in place better coaches, especially on defense. If we improve this year, this will be a major reason why.

I have to say I agree. We don't seem to be doing anything different in FA...just have a good defensive system and seems to me we are trying to sign guys that fit into the system. Something Mike was terrible at doing on defense.

Hopefully the shakeup on defense can outweigh the shakeup on offense, otherwise we will see another .500 season.

[honz]

What's Spagnuolo doing to make his new team better?

[Shazam!]

New schemes on both sides and better coaches will drive the players to be more motivated and provide better leadership. Hopefully they'll know to make adjustments too. Sometimes a change at the top is all you need. Denver needed that desperately.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

What's Spagnuolo doing to make his new team better?

They got a Center. It was clearly the final piece to the puzzle. You'll see.

[TXBRONC]

They got a Center. It was clearly the final piece to the puzzle. You'll see.

That was funny. :rofl:

[roomemp]

The way I see it is that the people who are upset with the moves that we have made in the offseason are the same people that are crying for us to over pay on overrated players. And then when the over rated players do not play up to their contracts, those same people will say that we took too much of a gamble and payed wayyyy too much for subpar talent. We are looking for backups and stop gaps right now. Our real difference maker will come in the draft (hopefully). As for our coaching staff, I think it is solid. Of course they haven't been put to the test yet, but on paper, they look good. Nolan is a huge imporvement over Slowik. Our position coaches, especially on defense, are a real upgrade from last year.

[SoCalImport]

New schemes on both sides and better coaches will drive the players to be more motivated and provide better leadership. Hopefully they'll know to make adjustments too. Sometimes a change at the top is all you need. Denver needed that desperately.

THAT would be the biggest change for this team in 10 years.

[silkamilkamonico]

I see a lot of blather about the FA signings. Theyre really not a lot different than what we have seen in the past. If anything, we're now overpaying for RB, which we hadnt typically done in the past. The only improvement over the old regime is putting in place better coaches, especially on defense. If we improve this year, this will be a major reason why.

I totally agree. Watching McDaniels bring in the staff he has is an immediate upgrade over the inept staff under Shanahan.

McDaniels +1 already.

[spikerman]

The way I see it is that the people who are upset with the moves that we have made in the offseason are the same people that are crying for us to over pay on overrated players. And then when the over rated players do not play up to their contracts, those same people will say that we took too much of a gamble and payed wayyyy too much for subpar talent. We are looking for backups and stop gaps right now. Our real difference maker will come in the draft (hopefully). As for our coaching staff, I think it is solid. Of course they haven't been put to the test yet, but on paper, they look good. Nolan is a huge imporvement over Slowik. Our position coaches, especially on defense, are a real upgrade from last year.
I question paying $5 million for a long snapper when the team already had a very good one. I also question signings like Jabbar Gaffney among others. What does he bring to the team that the Broncos didn't already have? I don't mind them signing free agents and I don't care if they go after the "big name", my problem is that they don't seem to be the least bit selective on who they're signing. It's like they're just spending money for the sake of spending money.

[LRtagger]

They got a Center. It was clearly the final piece to the puzzle. You'll see.

Kind of like how we pad $5mil for a long snapper.

[elsid13]

They got a Center. It was clearly the final piece to the puzzle. You'll see.

I know the post was in jest, but the center is important part of upgrading that line that St. Louis need to overhaul.

[horsepig]

I question paying $5 million for a long snapper when the team already had a very good one. I also question signings like Jabbar Gaffney among others. What does he bring to the team that the Broncos didn't already have? I don't mind them signing free agents and I don't care if they go after the "big name", my problem is that they don't seem to be the least bit selective on who they're signing. It's like they're just spending money for the sake of spending money.

The difference is that McD is looking for Rod Smith types, not Daryl Gardner types.
This team desparately needs some leaders; players and coaches.

[spikerman]

Tha difference is that McD is looking for Rod Smith types, not Daryl Gardner types.
This team desparately needs some leaders, players and coaches.

I agree that the team needs leaders, but it doesn't need EVERY second tier free agent on the market. They need to pick players based on need, not based on whether or not they played for the Patriots.

[Hobe]

Hopefully the shakeup on defense can outweigh the shakeup on offense, otherwise we will see another .500 season.

Shake up? Shake up? I haven't seen a shake up on defense, yet! There has been a lot more movement on offense then defense. And a lot more emotion.

[horsepig]

Anybody rember Fred Belitnikof? Slower than molasses in mud pudding, not really a great leaper; Belitnikof was a "football player".
Hillis is a "player". We need guys like that, like WW. I could care less if I see DJ in "blue & orange", should be ORANGE!

[Ziggy]

Actually, this team DOES need 2nd tier players. We were playing with too many 3rd and 4th tier players last season. The 2nd tier players are an upgrade, and that's what you do with a .500 team. Upgrade.

[TXBRONC]

Kind of like how we pad $5mil for a long snapper.

We didn't get just some bum of the street we got ourselves a genuine pro bowl caliber long snapper.

[spikerman]

Actually, this team DOES need 2nd tier players. We were playing with too many 3rd and 4th tier players last season. The 2nd tier players are an upgrade, and that's what you do with a .500 team. Upgrade.Second tier players are fine and I agree with using them to fill holes. I also have no doubt that many of the second tier players are better than some of the players the Broncos used as starters last year. It just doesn't seem like there is a rhyme or reason to the front office's methods. Honestly, can someone explain why the team needed a new long snapper? Can anyone explain what Jabbar Gaffney does that Brandon Stokley and Eddie Royal don't? What's the point of signing, Buckhalter, Arrington, and Jordan? One of them, ok, but all three? This is money that either could have been spent elsewhere or not spent at all.

[spikerman]

We didn't get just some bum of the street we got ourselves a genuine pro bowl caliber long snapper.

The best thing is that he'll still be able to get downfield to cover punts on rainy days since as a former Patriot I'm pretty sure he can walk on water. Right, coach McD?

[TXBRONC]

Second tier players are fine and I agree with using them to fill holes. I also have no doubt that many of the second tier players are better than some of the players the Broncos used as starters last year. It just doesn't seem like there is a rhyme or reason to the front office's methods. Honestly, can someone explain why the team needed a new long snapper? Can anyone explain what Jabbar Gaffney does that Brandon Stokley and Eddie Royal don't? What's the point of signing, Buckhalter, Arrington, and Jordan? One of them, ok, but all three? This is money that either could have been spent elsewhere or not spent at all.

I don't think McDaniels brought Gaffeny in because he what he can do. He brought him in because of what he knows.

[atwater27]

In my book McDaniels has done more harm than good so far.

[honz]

Shake up? Shake up? I haven't seen a shake up on defense, yet! There has been a lot more movement on offense then defense. And a lot more emotion.

We cut or let go of 7 defensive starters from last season (Robertson, Engelberger, Webster, Winborn, Bly, McCree, and Manuel). I'd say that constitutes as a shakeup .

[slim]

What's Spagnuolo doing to make his new team better?

/thread

[Lonestar]

We cut or let go of 7 defensive starters from last season (Robertson, Engelberger, Webster, Winborn, Bly, McCree, and Manuel). I'd say that constitutes as a shakeup .

Most likey none of above gonna play much less start save maybe bly and he was cut more because cap space and marginal play....

This team needed a heart and soul cause last year it ahd none....

He is bringing in team players first for some leadership and several are from the Parcels coaching tree....

[lex]

What's Spagnuolo doing to make his new team better?


I dont know but, obviously its not enough, since he hasnt signed 3 RBs.

[LRtagger]

Shake up? Shake up? I haven't seen a shake up on defense, yet! There has been a lot more movement on offense then defense. And a lot more emotion.

Well I would consider a completely new coaching staff and change from 4-3 to 3-4 a shakeup.

[LRtagger]

We didn't get just some bum of the street we got ourselves a genuine pro bowl caliber long snapper.

We already had a pro-bowl caliber LS that was half as expensive.

If Paxton hadn't played for the Pats, he would not be a Bronco right now regardless of his talent or paycheck. If Paxton was on our roster last year and had never played for the Pats, but Leach played for the Pats and was a free-agent, Leach would be a Bronco right now and Paxton would be released.

It is a bit concerning that we dropped a perfectly good LS just to bring in a guy that McD has a relationship with....remind you of another scenario we have already seen this offseason? Fortunately that fell through.

[spikerman]

We already had a pro-bowl caliber LS that was half as expensive.

If Paxton hadn't played for the Pats, he would not be a Bronco right now regardless of his talent or paycheck. If Paxton was on our roster last year and had never played for the Pats, but Leach played for the Pats and was a free-agent, Leach would be a Bronco right now and Paxton would be released.

It is a bit concerning that we dropped a perfectly good LS just to bring in a guy that McD has a relationship with....remind you of another scenario we have already seen this offseason? Fortunately that fell through.

I could be wrong, LR, but I think TX was being sarcastic.

[BroncoWave]

I dont know but, obviously its not enough, since he hasnt signed 3 RBs.

Well if you're going to constantly shit on McDaniels, it might do you well to have some idea of what your boy in St. Louis is doing any better. :noidea:

[lex]

Well if you're going to constantly shit on McDaniels, it might do you well to have some idea of what your boy in St. Louis is doing any better. :noidea:

yawn

[SmilinAssasSin27]

another brilliant response. It's sad how he bashes us for not writing a 12 page discertation as a response, but he's super cool when he uses weak 1 word responses.

[LRtagger]

I could be wrong, LR, but I think TX was being sarcastic.

Hope so :D

[MOtorboat]

another brilliant response. It's sad how he bashes us for not writing a 12 page discertation as a response, but he's super cool when he uses weak 1 word responses.

You're not smart enough to comprehend the genius of it all...:rolleyes:

[Ziggy]

Second tier players are fine and I agree with using them to fill holes. I also have no doubt that many of the second tier players are better than some of the players the Broncos used as starters last year. It just doesn't seem like there is a rhyme or reason to the front office's methods. Honestly, can someone explain why the team needed a new long snapper? Can anyone explain what Jabbar Gaffney does that Brandon Stokley and Eddie Royal don't? What's the point of signing, Buckhalter, Arrington, and Jordan? One of them, ok, but all three? This is money that either could have been spent elsewhere or not spent at all.

Let's see:

2008 starting safeties: Manuel and Mcree
2009 starting safeties: Dawkins and Hill

2008 starting CB: Dre Bly
2009 starting CB: Andre Goodman

2008 starting MLB: Nate Webster
2009 starting MLB: Andra Davis

2008 4th WR: Darryl Jackson
2009 4th WR: Jabbar Gaffney

2008 RB's: Hillis, Torrain, Young, Hall, Bell
2009 RB's: Hillis, Torrain, Buckhalter, Arrington, Jordan


Gaffney knows the system, he's a decent receiver, and unlike Brandon Marshall, he's in no danger of being suspended for the start of the season.

Signing Paxton was a silly move, and an unnecessary one IMO. Remember, I'm a big Shanahan fan, but I like the signings that the new coach has made. The level of proffesionalism, character, commitment, and overall talent has been raised IMO.

You're not going to turn around a defense that gave up around 850 points in the last 2 seasons overnight. The talent is better on defense and we have a true vocal leader. I'd settle for a middle of the pack D that plays with some heart, and some fire.

[BroncoWave]

Let's see:

2008 starting safeties: Manuel and Mcree
2009 starting safeties: Dawkins and Hill

2008 starting CB: Dre Bly
2009 starting CB: Andre Goodman

2008 starting MLB: Nate Webster
2009 starting MLB: Andra Davis

2008 4th WR: Darryl Jackson
2009 4th WR: Jabbar Gaffney

2008 RB's: Hillis, Torrain, Young, Hall, Bell
2009 RB's: Hillis, Torrain, Buckhalter, Arrington, Jordan


Gaffney knows the system, he's a decent receiver, and unlike Brandon Marshall, he's in no danger of being suspended for the start of the season.

Signing Paxton was a silly move, and an unnecessary one IMO. Remember, I'm a big Shanahan fan, but I like the signings that the new coach has made. The level of proffesionalism, character, commitment, and overall talent has been raised IMO.

You're not going to turn around a defense that gave up around 850 points in the last 2 seasons overnight. The talent is better on defense and we have a true vocal leader. I'd settle for a middle of the pack D that plays with some heart, and some fire.

Great post! It's sad that most of the McDaniels haters are too blind to see this.

[spikerman]

Let's see:

2008 starting safeties: Manuel and Mcree
2009 starting safeties: Dawkins and Hill

2008 starting CB: Dre Bly
2009 starting CB: Andre Goodman

2008 starting MLB: Nate Webster
2009 starting MLB: Andra Davis

2008 4th WR: Darryl Jackson
2009 4th WR: Jabbar Gaffney

2008 RB's: Hillis, Torrain, Young, Hall, Bell
2009 RB's: Hillis, Torrain, Buckhalter, Arrington, Jordan


Gaffney knows the system, he's a decent receiver, and unlike Brandon Marshall, he's in no danger of being suspended for the start of the season.

Signing Paxton was a silly move, and an unnecessary one IMO. Remember, I'm a big Shanahan fan, but I like the signings that the new coach has made. The level of proffesionalism, character, commitment, and overall talent has been raised IMO.

You're not going to turn around a defense that gave up around 850 points in the last 2 seasons overnight. The talent is better on defense and we have a true vocal leader. I'd settle for a middle of the pack D that plays with some heart, and some fire.
I see you quoted me in your post, but with the exception of the Gaffney signing, where do you see a difference in what I'm saying? I said that many of the second tier players were better than what the Broncos had, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the Broncos have not been particularly picky with the people they've brought in. As for the RB position, last year was a fluke. Few teams use more than 2 or 3 running backs in a season. Signing 3 was overkill and unnecessary IMO.

And for the record - I'm not a McDaniels hater. I think it was a mistake to fire Shanahan and I haven't been overly impressed with McDaniels so far, but I'm far from a hater. I certainly hope he proves to be a great hire.

[Ziggy]

Spike, I guess we just have a different view of how you build a team. I think you bring in solid, character guys for competition through FA, and build through the draft. That is exactly what the Broncos are doing.

I like all 3 RB's. Arrington is an excellent KR, which should decrease Eddie Royal's risk of getting injured. These signings also allow us to use Hillis in a variety of spots. RB, FB, TE, or Hback. I don't know if they will use him that way, but we certainly have the option to now.

[TXBRONC]

We already had a pro-bowl caliber LS that was half as expensive.

If Paxton hadn't played for the Pats, he would not be a Bronco right now regardless of his talent or paycheck. If Paxton was on our roster last year and had never played for the Pats, but Leach played for the Pats and was a free-agent, Leach would be a Bronco right now and Paxton would be released.

It is a bit concerning that we dropped a perfectly good LS just to bring in a guy that McD has a relationship with....remind you of another scenario we have already seen this offseason? Fortunately that fell through.

I was trying to be a little funny a sarcastic kind of way. I agree Paxton isn't an improvement over Leach but I would guess this was one of those signings to let everyone know whose in charge.

[TXBRONC]

I could be wrong, LR, but I think TX was being sarcastic.

I was indeed. :D

[Den21vsBal19]

I question paying $5 million for a long snapper when the team already had a very good one. I also question signings like Jabbar Gaffney among others. What does he bring to the team that the Broncos didn't already have? I don't mind them signing free agents and I don't care if they go after the "big name", my problem is that they don't seem to be the least bit selective on who they're signing. It's like they're just spending money for the sake of spending money.

Maybe an option at reciever if/when Marshall's suspended for 4-8? :tsk:

[spikerman]

Spike, I guess we just have a different view of how you build a team. I think you bring in solid, character guys for competition through FA, and build through the draft. That is exactly what the Broncos are doing.

I like all 3 RB's. Arrington is an excellent KR, which should decrease Eddie Royal's risk of getting injured. These signings also allow us to use Hillis in a variety of spots. RB, FB, TE, or Hback. I don't know if they will use him that way, but we certainly have the option to now.

Ziggy, again, I don't think we're really disagreeing here. I have no problem with him bringing in a bunch of free agents. This team needed an overhaul, particularly on defense. I just don't see the reasoning behind some of the signings, ie: the long snapper, Gaffney, and all 3 running backs. I am happy the team has been active, but this offseason plan reminds me of throwing mud against a wall to see what sticks.

[spikerman]

Maybe an option at reciever if/when Marshall's suspended for 4-8? :tsk:
:lol: Except I think he was signed before Marshall's incident (I could be wrong on the timing though). Either way, he can't fulfill the same role as Marshall.

My whole point on Gaffney is that if the team was going to sign a free agent WR, sign a speed guy on the outside. This team is already loaded with talent at the slot position.

[Den21vsBal19]

:lol: Except I think he was signed before Marshall's incident (I could be wrong on the timing though). Either way, he can't fulfill the same role as Marshall.

My whole point on Gaffney is that if the team was going to sign a free agent WR, sign a speed guy on the outside. This team is already loaded with talent at the slot position.
I think he was, but when I read your post that just sprang to mind :lol:

I'm guessing that a large part of it is Gaffney being familiar with McDaniels ideas.............................






or Cronyism ;)

[TXBRONC]

:lol: Except I think he was signed before Marshall's incident (I could be wrong on the timing though). Either way, he can't fulfill the same role as Marshall.

My whole point on Gaffney is that if the team was going to sign a free agent WR, sign a speed guy on the outside. This team is already loaded with talent at the slot position.

Gaffney isn't a great pick up because of talent but he does know McDaniels system and that should help others to learn it.

[omac]

I see you quoted me in your post, but with the exception of the Gaffney signing, where do you see a difference in what I'm saying? I said that many of the second tier players were better than what the Broncos had, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the Broncos have not been particularly picky with the people they've brought in. As for the RB position, last year was a fluke. Few teams use more than 2 or 3 running backs in a season. Signing 3 was overkill and unnecessary IMO.

And for the record - I'm not a McDaniels hater. I think it was a mistake to fire Shanahan and I haven't been overly impressed with McDaniels so far, but I'm far from a hater. I certainly hope he proves to be a great hire.

I pretty much feel the same way. A lot of what McDaniels is doing with his signings this offseason are similar to Shanahan's signings last offseason; nothing flashy, some former starters, bringing in competition. Ziggy's post actually shows the resemblance. I'm a fan of Shanahan, but I'm willing to give McDaniels an honest shot. I'll criticize McDaniels, though, for trying to ship off our franchise QB for his system QB, for handling the situation like a real noob, and for putting a very clutch player like Scheffler on the trading block. Oh, and for taking care of the incoming long snapper, before taking care of the probowl center. :D