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iLands
01-24-2012, 06:58 PM
Does anyone think Moreno will be able to shake the bust status next year?

No one will, I'm sure. I think if he stays healthy (possibly the biggest conditional ever), he'll prove a lot of us wrong.

I hope he does just that.

NightTerror218
01-24-2012, 07:00 PM
Does anyone think Moreno will be able to shake the bust status next year?

No one will, I'm sure. I think if he stays healthy (possibly the biggest conditional ever), he'll prove a lot of us wrong.

I hope he does just that.

I think he will prove to be a good 3rd down back that does check downs. Cause he sure as hell can not run through holes up the middle, but he showed some good stuff in open space.

Dzone
01-24-2012, 07:02 PM
I hope he proves everyone wrong. He worked and trained hard for this season, but I am afraid he is a colossal bust. Of course, many people, myself included, thought the same about Demaryious Thomas.

Day1BroncoFan
01-24-2012, 07:04 PM
I think Moreno is a waste of a roster spot and I don't see that changing. If he's around next year, I would love it if he proves me wrong.

Magnificent Seven
01-24-2012, 07:04 PM
Moreno could be our solid RB back up. I would like to see them draft a stud RB like McGahee.

However, I think they need to focus on defense. Draft stud DB and DT. Then, they can focus on RB.

iLands
01-24-2012, 07:04 PM
I hope he proves everyone wrong. He worked and trained hard for this season, but I am afraid he is a colossal bust. Of course, many people, myself included, thought the same about Demaryious Thomas.

That was what led me to my thinking.

VonSackemMiller
01-24-2012, 07:05 PM
Man moreno is a good back when healthy. Perhaps if he had the same lanes willis had hed been much better, if hes healthy which hes never been since being a bronco then he will contribute in a big way, he probably wasnt worth the 11th overall pick more like the back of the first round buy hey what can we do about that? I like him. Hopefully now that tute is gone our guys can start getting bigger stronger faster,

VonSackemMiller
01-24-2012, 07:09 PM
That was what led me to my thinking.

Yeah many wrote bay bay off as a bust too. Simply because he couldnt stay healthy. Which is a no no in my book, moreno doesnt go from being like one of the best rbs in the sec to being a bust because hes been nagged by injuries, the year he p layed the most he was playing on a gimpy hamstring and it showed. Let the kid play out his tookie contract which is only 2 more years and go from there.

BORDERLINE
01-24-2012, 07:12 PM
Man moreno is a good back when healthy. Perhaps if he had the same lanes willis had hed been much better, if hes healthy which hes never been since being a bronco then he will contribute in a big way, he probably wasnt worth the 11th overall pick more like the back of the first round buy hey what can we do about that? I like him. Hopefully now that tute is gone our guys can start getting bigger stronger faster,

Moreno was the starter heading into the year. I always believed the reason we where not good at running the ball was the offense as a whole. But then when Willis was inserted and started picking up yards and TD's. I think it's rather clear that Moreno just isn't that TOP BACK we thought he would be when he was drafted.

madmanbryan
01-24-2012, 07:16 PM
He is a good back..i didnt even know he was being looked at
As maybe a bust!?
When healthy he makes it happen,wouldnt call him a bust
If hes hurt and cant do it

NightTerror218
01-24-2012, 07:21 PM
Man moreno is a good back when healthy. Perhaps if he had the same lanes willis had hed been much better, if hes healthy which hes never been since being a bronco then he will contribute in a big way, he probably wasnt worth the 11th overall pick more like the back of the first round buy hey what can we do about that? I like him. Hopefully now that tute is gone our guys can start getting bigger stronger faster,

but McGahee is a beast after contact.

Ravage!!!
01-24-2012, 07:29 PM
I don't think he will be on the roster next year. If he is, I doubt he's on a regular rotation in the game. I don't think much of Moreno's play, and truly believe that he could be replaced with just about anyone.

bcbronc
01-24-2012, 07:37 PM
I'm not one that views Moreno as a bust. I agree injuries have kept him from maxing out his potential, but I don't classify that as a bust. Imo a bust is someone that makes no contribution (or almost none) to the team that drafted him. I might agree that Moreno has been a bit of a disappointment for his draft slot, but for me draft slot becomes irrelevant after a season or two.

Moreno's first season he contributed 1160 yards from scrimmage and 9 TDs.
His second, he contributed 1151 YFS and 8 TDs.
His third season was more or less a write off due to injury.

Those aren't numbers that say bust to me, especially considering he's always dinged up, his OL has been going through a rebuild, and he played in a stupid offense with craptastic QBs and head coach.

With that said, I don't agree he's about to have a breakout year either. There was a lot said this TC and preseason about how hard Moreno worked last offseason, specifically targeting his hamstrings. Well, despite all that hard training, his hammies still didn't hold up. Some people are just wired too tightly and while this benefits them athletically, it also leaves them vulnerable to reaccuring soft tissue damage. I think Moreno is one of these athletes.

If he'd buy in, I could see him excelling in a Kevin Faulk type roll for us. He's got talent, just can't stay healthy, so using him as a 3rd down back would keep him healthy and effective. Or I could see moving him for a 3rd to NE or the like, and using that pick to draft a (hopefully) more durable and just as effective RB.

If he can stay healthy, I agree he has the talent to be an effective back for us. I just don't think he's physically able to hold up with 20+ touches per game.

Bronco4ever
01-24-2012, 08:11 PM
Moreno may or may not be starting material, but I think he definitely can add value to the back field. He's an excellent receiver and could work as a good check down for Tebow, seeing as though none of our other backs seem to ever catch the ball. He's pretty good in pass protection as well, so like others have said he could be a great 3rd down back.

It's a bummer that we picked the guy so high and haven't gotten what we expected, but if we let him get 5-10 touches a game, there's no reason he couldn't be effective in that role. Plus it could limit some of those nagging injuries he tends to have problems with.

dogfish
01-24-2012, 08:15 PM
doubt it. . . i wouldn't give him better than fifty-fifty odds of making the roster at this point. . . the only thing he's really good at is catching the ball, and we rarely throw it to our backs. . .

realistically, the way we use our backfield, we need two hosses that are capable of carrying the load-- and we desperately need some speed in this offense. . . since moreno can't be a featured ballcarrier, he has to be the third back-- a spot which really should be reserved for a speed guy, unless they draft a speed guy that can also carry a heavy workload. . .

VonSackemMiller
01-24-2012, 08:20 PM
doubt it. . . i wouldn't give him better than fifty-fifty odds of making the roster at this point. . . the only thing he's really good at is catching the ball, and we rarely throw it to our backs. . .

realistically, the way we use our backfield, we need two hosses that are capable of carrying the load-- and we desperately need some speed in this offense. . . since moreno can't be a featured ballcarrier, he has to be the third back-- a spot which really should be reserved for a speed guy, unless they draft a speed guy that can also carry a heavy workload. . .

What kind of offense doesnt use there RBs in the passing game knowing how much of a threat the screen pass, swing pass, short crossing routes are vs LBs? Oh nevermind thats just Fox ball, even with a two headed monster incarolina stewart and williams was always banged up. Fox ball does nothing but get linemen hurt and get running backs hurt from pounding away.

VonSackemMiller
01-24-2012, 08:22 PM
Moreno was the starter heading into the year. I always believed the reason we where not good at running the ball was the offense as a whole. But then when Willis was inserted and started picking up yards and TD's. I think it's rather clear that Moreno just isn't that TOP BACK we thought he would be when he was drafted.

Moreno was running into walls. I have everygame recorded, There were no lanes, Mcgahee only had one good game with orton starting and that was on 30 carries.

VonSackemMiller
01-24-2012, 08:24 PM
but McGahee is a beast after contact.

And he has to limp off the field after every carry, the dude is breaking down, Hell be nothing more than a rotation back next year, which is why we need moreno and one more RB.

Softskull
01-24-2012, 08:26 PM
Moreno has been outplayed by both McGahee and Buckhalter over the last three years. He just doesn't have a ton of value. I'd love for the kid to be the beast we all hoped for, but I aint holding my breath.

cmc0605
01-24-2012, 08:45 PM
Knowshon Moreno seems like the type of player, like many before, who would leave Denver written off as "decent-at-best" but then have a 1500+ yd season somewhere else when used properly or playing with some talent. He actually has run good in Denver when given the chance. Averaging over four yards a carry last season (nearly 400 yd receiving), and nearly five yards per carry in the limited time he had this season, is not "bust." He's not Adrian Peterson, and I don't know if he can take over a game when everything around him is collapsing, but give him decent blocking and a QB who makes defenses fear both run and pass (i.e., not consistent 8 man fronts) and he can be dangerous. Especially if we get him in the screen game, he is extremely good in the open field.

Well worth a roster spot, even if he becomes a #2/#3 or rotation back, but I'd have confidence in him starting a game if someone went down in front of him. We all know McGahee isn't getting younger and Moreno is still very young. He has some stuff to work on, including hitting the hole with more authority, but I suspect he'll prove the haters wrong. I've always liked him and hope he remains a Bronco.

wayninja
01-24-2012, 08:50 PM
I see Moreno the same way I see DT. He can have a breakout year or he can go down hurt with almost equal probability.

So far the flips have mostly gone tails.

The only way I see him getting a good chance to shine is if we use him in more passing situations, similar to how LT was used in SD. That's his best chance IMHO.

bcbronc
01-24-2012, 09:04 PM
What kind of offense doesnt use there RBs in the passing game knowing how much of a threat the screen pass, swing pass, short crossing routes are vs LBs? Oh nevermind thats just Fox ball, even with a two headed monster incarolina stewart and williams was always banged up. Fox ball does nothing but get linemen hurt and get running backs hurt from pounding away.

In Carolina, a RB was either 2nd or 3rd in receptions just about every season Fox was there. Granted, it was frequently only 1-2 receptions per game and still good for 2nd or 3rd on the team, but still.

OrangeHoof
01-24-2012, 09:59 PM
I thought he looked good in the game at KC before he got hurt which proved he could be productive in the Tebow offense. If he stays healthy and works hard, he will get another chance but I really want to add a more stable back since Moreno and McGahee both seem to be injury-prone.

Army Bronco
01-24-2012, 10:00 PM
He will get hurt by the start of the first game next season, then come back for a few more games then injure his colon or something.

Krugan
01-24-2012, 10:05 PM
Before he got hurt he was running with aggression and seemed to be turning the corner.

I knee can go anytime your hit the way that one went, people gotta get over insta gratification.

would so be nice to keep some of our draft choices for awhile to see if they grow vs expecting everyone to come out guns blazing and be top shiat on big shiat mountain.

To much emphasis on what position they where drafted in...

Timmy!
01-25-2012, 01:40 AM
I'm OK with him as a 3rd down back, IF he can even win that spot in camp (I'm assuming we bring in some competition for him) but the guy seems to be made of glass and is the biggest dancer I've ever seen. Noshow needs to showup if he wants a roster spot.

TXBRONC
01-25-2012, 07:50 AM
Does anyone think Moreno will be able to shake the bust status next year?

No one will, I'm sure. I think if he stays healthy (possibly the biggest conditional ever), he'll prove a lot of us wrong.

I hope he does just that.

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets cut.

SOCALORADO.
01-25-2012, 09:26 AM
Moreno=Bust

Never healthy, slow, no vision and cant break a tackle to save his life.

HammeredOut
01-25-2012, 09:39 AM
Moreno only had like 1 or 2 games with over a 100 yards on the ground in his career. Going into year 3 or 4, with basically no production to show that he proves he is a legit starter has been thrown out the window a long time ago. For those still holding onto the No-SHow Moreno show, please let go, it is getting pathetic for real Broncos fans.

Chef Zambini
01-25-2012, 09:51 AM
moreno runs out of balance, hit him high, he fights hard but cant make forward brogress, ANY kin=d of hit below the knees and he goes down due to his own forward lean and momentum. He has not been much of a contributer in the passing game, although I did watch his pass blocking during his breif exposure this season and that did seem to improve.
as a FRDC he is an obvious bust ! as a third string back, he is a commodity.
If he aint a bronco next year, our offense will not be effected one tiny bit.
Injury prone?
Heck that was a recurrent theme with TUTEN around.

TXBRONC
01-25-2012, 09:54 AM
What kind of offense doesnt use there RBs in the passing game knowing how much of a threat the screen pass, swing pass, short crossing routes are vs LBs? Oh nevermind thats just Fox ball, even with a two headed monster incarolina stewart and williams was always banged up. Fox ball does nothing but get linemen hurt and get running backs hurt from pounding away.

That is absolutely false. Denver's offensive line and running backs are no more susceptible to injury than any other team's offensive linemen and running backs. You do know that Denver's offensive starter every game of the regular season together. Kuper missed two starts but that wasn't until the playoffs.

weazel
01-26-2012, 11:31 AM
does anyone think moreno will be able to shake the bust status next year?

No one will, i'm sure. I think if he stays healthy (possibly the biggest conditional ever), he'll prove a lot of us wrong.

I hope he does just that.

cfl

TXBRONC
01-26-2012, 11:39 AM
cfl

I wouldn't be surprised if his career ended up taking him to the CFL.

Traveler
01-26-2012, 12:56 PM
The following from Woody Paige in today's DP:


The Broncos need a running back who can get outside. As anybody who reads me knows, I've written for three years that Knowshon Moreno was a major mistake. John Fox figured it out right away. (Josh McDaniels also knew almost immediately he had screwed up picking Moreno in the first round.)

Read more: Woody's Mailbag: Broncos should pick everything at NFL draft, except QB - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_19822168#ixzz1kaUSy9hR

While Moreno has put up some decent numbers, it's clear he's not a difference maker at his position. Probably a good bet he won't be here this year. If he is retained, it'll most likely be as a change of pace back to spell McGahee and whomever we sign/draft. Don't even think he'll be the 3rd down back. 4 or 5 RB's with McGahee & another big back; Moreno; and a speed back.

NightTerror218
01-26-2012, 12:58 PM
If we draft a new RB I could see ball/johnson cut and Fanin put on practice squad. Moreno/new RB and Moreno has 3rd down back. I think he is good as a check down R. He is quick and good in open space. But shitty between tackles which is what Fox does, run up the gut.

GEM
01-26-2012, 01:08 PM
And he has to limp off the field after every carry, the dude is breaking down, Hell be nothing more than a rotation back next year, which is why we need moreno and one more RB.

Moreno goes off the field huffing and puffing after every play.....difference is....he does it after a 2 yard loss, McGahee does it after a 10 yard gain.

ShooterJM
01-26-2012, 01:09 PM
I'm at the same spot on both Eddie Royal and Knowshon. If we can sign them cheap, ok. If not, let them walk. (or limp, whatever)

cuzz4169
01-26-2012, 03:05 PM
Moreno has no vision, no patience, no power, no balance & no speed anything else? What a disappointment! I thought he was gong to be the next L.T. coming out of college, I was pumped when we drafted him.

cuzz4169
01-26-2012, 03:06 PM
If we draft a RB Moreno might not be back.

NightTerror218
01-26-2012, 05:56 PM
If we draft a RB Moreno might not be back.

I think he will be back before Ball and Johnson.

bcbronc
01-26-2012, 09:20 PM
I think he will be back before Ball and Johnson.

Probably depends on what kind of back we add to the roster.

Ideally we add a #1 type back in the draft, keep McGahee as the power change of pace, and Moreno as the pass catching change of pace. Ball should be gone, but I could see Johnson kept to compete with Moreno.

cuzz4169
01-26-2012, 10:03 PM
I would love for Denver to take a long look at Chris Rainey. He could be Denver's version of Harvin. He's going to be a nice piece for someone. He's better than McCluster IMO. speed kills in the open field.

MOtorboat
01-26-2012, 10:05 PM
Moreno was top 20 in the league in yards from scrimmage in his first two seasons. He may not be marquee, he may not be a superstar, but he's hardly a scrub or should be relegated to the CFL.

Jeremiah Johnson is a practice squad scrub. Lance Ball is a borderline NFL running back (with the emphasis on the other side of the border).

Moreno is hardly that, even though people will never see the forest through the trees on that.

TXBRONC
01-26-2012, 10:22 PM
Moreno was top 20 in the league in yards from scrimmage in his first two seasons. He may not be marquee, he may not be a superstar, but he's hardly a scrub or should be relegated to the CFL.

Jeremiah Johnson is a practice squad scrub. Lance Ball is a borderline NFL running back (with the emphasis on the other side of the border).

Moreno is hardly that, even though people will never see the forest through the trees on that.

The guy was a top 15 pick. He was supposedly the best running back in his draft class we haven't gotten much in return for a guy that was picked that high.

MOtorboat
01-26-2012, 10:39 PM
The guy was a top 15 pick. He was supposedly the best running back in his draft class we haven't gotten much in return for a guy that was picked that high.

Reality tells us that a top 20 yard producer in his first two seasons is well worth a top 15 pick.

But here's the delusional crap we have to deal with: the majority of fans would rather take Peyton Hillis' first two seasons over Knowshon Moreno's first two seasons. And that is sadly based on one game.

Once you can remove the first round stigma from a player and objectively review the performance you'd be able to see that. Coaches and GMs don't care where a player is drafted, and especially now that we have a different coach and front office, they really don't care.

Shazam!
01-26-2012, 10:40 PM
The Backs looked better this season because of Tim Tebow's running threat. Next year IF he's healthy and with an improved Tebow, he can have a breakout year.

TXBRONC
01-26-2012, 10:57 PM
Reality tells us that a top 20 yard producer in his first two seasons is well worth a top 15 pick.

But here's the delusional crap we have to deal with: the majority of fans would rather take Peyton Hillis' first two seasons over Knowshon Moreno's first two seasons. And that is sadly based on one game.

Once you can remove the first round stigma from a player and objectively review the performance you'd be able to see that. Coaches and GMs don't care where a player is drafted, and especially now that we have a different coach and front office, they really don't care.

Top 20 isn't even middle of the pack. He has missed a lot of time with injury and even when he has been on the field he would take himself out of the game after ever run.

Yes the do care. Why is there a draft if they don't care? Please I don't the idea that coaches and GMs have higher expectations for a player taken in the first round verses a player taken in the seventh round.

weazel
01-27-2012, 12:36 AM
Moreno will win us a championship one day! Until then, I blame the O-Line

Chef Zambini
01-27-2012, 01:06 AM
Moreno will win us a championship one day! Until then, I blame the O-Lineah, comedy.

Chef Zambini
01-27-2012, 01:14 AM
The Backs looked better this season because of Tim Tebow's running threat. Next year IF he's healthy and with an improved Tebow, he can have a breakout year.NO you are not paying attention! EFX intende to transform tebow into a POCKET passer! His running threat will be thwarted by his own offensive scheme! Our run game will NOT be enhanced by TEBOW.
thats OVER!
next year we are going to rely on his passing sjkill from the POCKET and RBs will have to do thier own work.
MORENO sucks as a FRDC, he is a mediocre running back, at best, tebows presence on the field wont change that.

Chef Zambini
01-27-2012, 01:16 AM
what is morenos YPC?when its 3rd and 4 are you going to hand KM the rock?
get real, moreno is NOT a top 20 RB, not even close.

MOtorboat
01-27-2012, 07:46 AM
Top 20 isn't even middle of the pack. He has missed a lot of time with injury and even when he has been on the field he would take himself out of the game after ever run.

Yes the do care. Why is there a draft if they don't care? Please I don't the idea that coaches and GMs have higher expectations for a player taken in the first round verses a player taken in the seventh round.

There are roughly 32 starting running backs and 64 starting wide receivers (probably closer to 70 or 75 with the formations most teams run now), so we're realistically talking about a player who was in the top 1/4 in yard production of skill players in the league in his first two seasons.

And people would rather cut him than Jeremiah Johnson?

catfish
01-27-2012, 11:11 AM
I would love for Denver to take a long look at Chris Rainey. He could be Denver's version of Harvin. He's going to be a nice piece for someone. He's better than McCluster IMO. speed kills in the open field.

as a Florida fan I like Rainey, but you don't want him for this offense. He isn't a break tackles move the pile back like McGahee he is elusive in open space like Moreno. Unless they implement more screens or run to the outside more he won't do much here IMO, and if they are going to implement those things Moreno will perform better IMO

catfish
01-27-2012, 11:14 AM
Reality tells us that a top 20 yard producer in his first two seasons is well worth a top 15 pick.

But here's the delusional crap we have to deal with: the majority of fans would rather take Peyton Hillis' first two seasons over Knowshon Moreno's first two seasons. And that is sadly based on one game.

Once you can remove the first round stigma from a player and objectively review the performance you'd be able to see that. Coaches and GMs don't care where a player is drafted, and especially now that we have a different coach and front office, they really don't care.

If he can stay healthy and they can get hiim the ball in space or run outside Moreno is nasty. That IIRC is how they used him in college. He has big play potential when it becomes a foot race to the outside, less so up the gut.

catfish
01-27-2012, 11:21 AM
There are roughly 32 starting running backs and 64 starting wide receivers (probably closer to 70 or 75 with the formations most teams run now), so we're realistically talking about a player who was in the top 1/4 in yard production of skill players in the league in his first two seasons.

And people would rather cut him than Jeremiah Johnson?

career Moreno is 4.1 YPC and 9 YPR. It is all in how you use him, get him the ball in space and he is gone, run him up the gut and he appears indecisive IMO. I think his ability to catch out of the backfield is a big plus

ShooterJM
01-27-2012, 12:18 PM
There are roughly 32 starting running backs and 64 starting wide receivers (probably closer to 70 or 75 with the formations most teams run now), so we're realistically talking about a player who was in the top 1/4 in yard production of skill players in the league in his first two seasons.

And people would rather cut him than Jeremiah Johnson?



I don't know about 2010, but in 2009 Knowshon was #19 or 20 out of RB's. Zero chance he was in the top 20 for RB/WR.

He has value as a RB. It's just trying to decide what that value is. His contract was what? $23M for 5 years? Lets do the math, 3 years in he has about 2600 yards, 18 TDs and 8 fumbles.

Throw out this year, and he averages 900 yds rushing, 250 yards receiving, 8 TDs and 4 fumbles.

Maybe he turns into a stud, but that seems more like a Tim Hightower player than a stud RB.

So it comes down to $4M+ a year for 1150 yards or $1.2M a year for roughly the same?

ShooterJM
01-27-2012, 12:23 PM
Let me add, he does seem to be improving, but it's not going to matter if can't stay on the field. If he averages 20 YPC it doesn't help much if he can only be in 3 games a year.

bcbronc
01-27-2012, 09:08 PM
I don't know about 2010, but in 2009 Knowshon was #19 or 20 out of RB's. Zero chance he was in the top 20 for RB/WR.

He has value as a RB. It's just trying to decide what that value is. His contract was what? $23M for 5 years? Lets do the math, 3 years in he has about 2600 yards, 18 TDs and 8 fumbles.

Throw out this year, and he averages 900 yds rushing, 250 yards receiving, 8 TDs and 4 fumbles.

Maybe he turns into a stud, but that seems more like a Tim Hightower player than a stud RB.

So it comes down to $4M+ a year for 1150 yards or $1.2M a year for roughly the same?

If we were tight against the cap, this would matter more. We've got too much cap space as it is though.

tomjonesrocks
01-27-2012, 11:50 PM
Am sorry I am sorry I am just seeing this--hate to miss a chance to shit on Moreno.

Nothing else that hasn't already been said though. This is a city of productive RBs and Moreno sucks.

The end. Hope he is quickly cut after IR.

broncs
01-28-2012, 11:52 AM
Moreno's last game 2011 vs KC 7-70, 2 big runs, one he hurdles Brandon Flowers.In that game (before his injury),looked like one of the better backs in the NFL

Northman
01-28-2012, 11:54 AM
Who's Moreno?

Ravage!!!
01-28-2012, 01:42 PM
Who's Moreno?

Played QB for the Dolphins back in the 80's and 90's

FlyByU
01-28-2012, 03:59 PM
Need to trade him off and open the slot for a better RB we can pick up in the draft say 6th 7th rd.