Josh mcdaniels

[kabroncos]

THIS IS AN ANNOUNCEMENT, IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY etc. :defense: -- Josh McDaniels -- DO NOT TRADE TONY SCHEFFLER OR JAY CUTLER. THEY ARE TWO OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE. YOU ONLY SAW THE BRONCOS ONCE last season when Jay Cutler jammed his finger. I REPEAT -- DO NOT TRADE EITHER PLAYER !

[MOtorboat]

:rolleyes:

[xzn]

Ummm, they have this thing called GAME FILM.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume Josh has watched some of it...

[claymore]

I have no problems trading Scheffler.

[TXBRONC]

I have no problems trading Scheffler.

I would love to keep Scheffler around, but it seems to me that tight end in McDaniels offense really is not worked that much into the passing game.

[claymore]

I would love to keep Scheffler around, but it seems to me that tight end in McDaniels offense really is not worked that much into the passing game.

I like him, but after the Cutler thing. Losing Scheff isnt that big of a deal.

[xzn]

I like Scheff, but if Mc D isn't going to use him and Xman doesn't intend to sign him long term we should see what we can get for him. We have other needs, esp on D.

[DenBronx]

this has to be the lamest thread ever.

[Northman]

Ohhhhhh, another Josh/Jay thread!!! Shiny!!!

[broncofaninfla]

Ummm, they have this thing called GAME FILM.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume Josh has watched some of it...

I'll assume he has as well BUT some of the free agent signings have made me question how much he studied.

[omac]

I like him, but after the Cutler thing. Losing Scheff isnt that big of a deal.

Oh so that's what McDaniels was doing. Because of the way McDaniels almost traded Cutler, anyone McDaniels cuts or trades now won't be that big of a deal. Now, he can be free to get rid of Champ, Clady, or whoever he wants. :D

[claymore]

Oh so that's what McDaniels was doing. Because of the way McDaniels almost traded Cutler, anyone McDaniels cuts or trades now won't be that big of a deal. Now, he can be free to get rid of Champ, Clady, or whoever he wants. :D

LOL.... I actually wouldnt have cared much for anyone else being traded anyway.

Guys I think are the nucleus...

Cutler
Clady
Royal
Hillis if he stays at FB

Everyone else can be moved as necessary.

[xzn]

I like Hillis but imo he is expendable for the right deal.

I'd add Champ to your indispensable list.

[xzn]

... and Lonny ....

[Ziggy]

I wouldn't put Champ in there, but I might put Harris on the list. Having 2 stud tackles is sweet.

[xzn]

What about Lonny?

[Medford Bronco]

I have no problems trading Scheffler.

Me too, he is far from one of the best players in the league.

Maybe a top 5 TE but top in the league, not even close.

[Medford Bronco]

I would love to keep Scheffler around, but it seems to me that tight end in McDaniels offense really is not worked that much into the passing game.

Yeah just ask Ben Watson. Very talented but does not have the big #s you would think.

[Foochacho]

Why not let this thread die? 2 pages already wtf

[TXBRONC]

Yeah just ask Ben Watson. Very talented but does not have the big #s you would think.

From looking at Watson's stats it looks like in this offense it's around 35 catches per year. His production this past season was way down, but I would guess that would having thing to do with Brady being injured.

[Nature Boy]

Bring Back Mikey!!! Bring Back Mikey!!!

[claymore]

Bring Back Mikey!!! Bring Back Mikey!!!

Welcome back NB..... This place hasnt been the same/.

[Nature Boy]

Welcome back NB..... This place hasnt been the same/.


I've been busy and now that the slow part of the NFL season just passed, I'll be dropping by from time to time just to bug the mods. :lol:

.

[claymore]

I've been busy and now that the slow part of the NFL season just passed, I'll be dropping by from time to time just to bug the mods. :lol:

.

Post naked chics in the lounge. NTL and Tned are gay, it really torques them.

[Nature Boy]

I'm not allowed in the lounge or the Politics room yet I have more than 1500 posts. Can someone tell me why?

.

[BroncoWave]

I'm not allowed in the lounge or the Politics room yet I have more than 1500 posts. Can someone tell me why?

.

You have to opt in to them.

[Nature Boy]

You have to opt in to them.

What do you mean? Is there a box I'm suppose to click in my user CP or do I have to ask a mod for permission to entry?

I actually had access to the politics room until Barrack OBama won the presidency. I think a few of the guys didn't want me telling them, "I told you so."

.

[BroncoWave]

What do you mean? Is there a box I'm suppose to click in my user CP or do I have to ask a mod for permission to entry?

I actually had access to the politics room until Barrack OBama won the presidency. I think a few of the guys didn't want me telling them, "I told you so."

.

It's in your settings somewhere. I think there's also a thread in town hall or something that shows you how to do it.

[Magnificent Seven]

I have no problems trading Scheffler.

Same here. I guess that McDainels wants to keep Daniel Graham because he is ex Patriot.

[Magnificent Seven]

Same here. I guess that McDainels wants to keep Daniel Graham because he is ex Patriot.

Looks like McDaniels wants all ex Patriots to join in Denver Broncos. That is so lame.

[CoachChaz]

I keep trying to figure out where else his system has been run, but I'm coming up with a blank.

Yeah, I can see where it would be stupid to bring in people that know the system and can help the team learn it. What a ludicrous concept.

[topscribe]

THIS IS AN ANNOUNCEMENT, IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY etc. :defense: -- Josh McDaniels -- DO NOT TRADE TONY SCHEFFLER OR JAY CUTLER. THEY ARE TWO OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE. YOU ONLY SAW THE BRONCOS ONCE last season when Jay Cutler jammed his finger. I REPEAT -- DO NOT TRADE EITHER PLAYER !

Welcome to the board! :welcome:

And nice try on the thread.

They've already made it clear Cuter's not going anywhere, and I don't believe
he is, now that Cassell is spoken for. So that idiotic move was averted.

I am a huge fan of Scheffler's. However, for the right price, he would have to
go. The difference is, I would probably ask a higher price than others would be
willing to give because he is potentially one of the elite TEs in the league.

-----

[Kapaibro]

Trade who ever you want if you get a good deal, and players who will improve the team

[CoachChaz]

Welcome to the board! :welcome:

And nice try on the thread.

They've already made it clear Cuter's not going anywhere, and I don't believe
he is, now that Cassell is spoken for. So that idiotic move was averted.

I am a huge fan of Scheffler's. However, for the right price, he would have to
go. The difference is, I would probably ask a higher price than others would be
willing to give because he is potentially one of the elite TEs in the league.

-----

Never happen

[Simple Jaded]

I like him, but after the Cutler thing. Losing Scheff isnt that big of a deal.

Exactly! Well put.

TE just doesn't figure much into McDenials plans, imo, ask Ben Watson if he'd miss this offense much........

[TXBRONC]

I keep trying to figure out where else his system has been run, but I'm coming up with a blank.

Yeah, I can see where it would be stupid to bring in people that know the system and can help the team learn it. What a ludicrous concept.

Arizona's offense is very similar the Patriots run and what we will run here.

[CoachChaz]

Arizona's offense is very similar the Patriots run and what we will run here.

...and how many Cardinals are FA's? I think we already signed the ONE that was affordable.

[TXBRONC]

...and how many Cardinals are FA's? I think we already signed the ONE that was affordable.

That's different matter altogether. I'm just saying they run a similar offense.

[CoachChaz]

That's different matter altogether. I'm just saying they run a similar offense.

I understand. My original point was that it isnt so dumb for McD to bring in ex-Patriots and other players that can work in his system as some would believe.

[topscribe]

That's different matter altogether. I'm just saying they run a similar offense.

Coach just likes to argue . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thwink.gif

-----

[topscribe]

I understand. My original point was that it isnt so dumb for McD to bring in ex-Patriots and other players that can work in his system as some would believe.

That Pats are loaded with second-level, blue-collar players who work together
like the parts of a well-oiled machine. It looks as if the FO is now letting others
throw the bank at superstars and are stocking up on players who will play
football.

-----

[Medford Bronco]

Same here. I guess that McDainels wants to keep Daniel Graham because he is ex Patriot.

Its because Graham is a better all around TE than Sheffler. He can actually block and catch passes.


Scheff is a good receiver and an average blocker at best.

[TXBRONC]

Coach just likes to argue . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thwink.gif

-----

:nod:

[Simple Jaded]

But you don't bring in your system guy's at the expense of a franchise QB, nor do you sign a long snapper to a record signing bonus when the LS already on board is more than adequate, that's pretty much the height of stupidity. That's just change for the sake of change.

Cassel and even a reasonably priced Paxton on their own, separate from who they replace, would be ideal, but the circumstances of their potential trade/signing are incredibly stupid.......

[omac]

That's different matter altogether. I'm just saying they run a similar offense.

You're right. Articles may tout it as an amoeba offense all they want, but bottom line, it's a spread offense. It's been pretty popular for quite some time in college, and NFL teams, like the Broncos this season, have even used those formations on occasion. It's not this new offense that came out of nowhere; NE is just one of the first teams in the NFL to really embrace it, after the negative stigma of the run-and-shoot from NFL teams before.

Talking about stigma, the perceived weakness of the scheme in protecting the QB was on display in NE's superbowl against the Giants. Still a great offense, though.

[omac]

But you don't bring in your system guy's at the expense of a franchise QB, nor do you sign a long snapper to a record signing bonus when the LS already on board is more than adequate, that's pretty much the height of stupidity. That's just change for the sake of change.

Cassel and even a reasonably priced Paxton on their own, separate from who they replace, would be ideal, but the circumstances of their potential trade/signing are incredibly stupid.......

Great post! :salute:

That's sometimes the problem when a coach believes too much in his system. He starts to think he can put anyone in there to perform, and he then underestimates the value of true talent. It's the same reason why Shanahan kept getting these late round and undrafted FA RBs for his system. McDaniels might be thinking the same thing.

Players versus system, I'd rather choose players. Some would rather choose the system.

[turftoad]

I thought this was interesting so i'm posting it. My thoughts exactly.
------------------------------------------------------------------

What the heck is Josh McDaniels doing?

And we thought Eric Mangini was alienating his new team.

Check out this column by Dave Krieger of The Denver Post talking about new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels' interesting ways. Turns out the 32-year old who has never been a head coach and just took over for a two-time Super Bowl champ thinks his system is bigger than any player on the roster.

Who does he think he is, Bill Walsh? These Bill Belichick disciples have such egos — he must prop them up as genius assistants around the league knowing they'll fail with conference rivals.

McDaniels signed 12 free agents in eight days, and according to Krieger's column, 11 of them are in the "average starter" or "good backup" category in the Scouts Inc. free agent ratings — a group that includes running backs Correll Buckhalter, who has had knee issues his entire career, J.J. Arrington, who Krieger heard may have been on crutches during his visit to Denver, and LaMont Jordan, who has played in just 29 games the last three seasons. Strength in numbers, I guess.

The only free agent the Broncos signed in the "good player" category was Brian Dawkins, who is just two years younger than another Pro Bowl safety the Broncos used to employ.

Aside from his questionable signings, McDaniels is not making nice with quarterback Jay Cutler. Personally, I think Cutler is the second coming of Brett Favre (which some may think is a good thing, but I don't). Yet that's no reason for McDaniels to try and trade him for his former New England pupil Matt Cassel.

And many are opining that Cutler should quit his whining and stick to football.

Said Ron Jaworski to the Denver Post: "Jay reacted so negatively. I'm not sure if that's some sort of immaturity he has to get over. This is the business of football. Coaches talk all the time, general managers talk all the time . . . Really only about 1 percent of all that talk ever leads to anything getting done."

But do all those hypotheticals get made public? It seems to me McDaniels is the one acting like a child — wanting to bring all of his toys with him to a new town after leaving the old one (on his own volition, no less). Doesn't work that way, Josh.

And now people are talking about Denver as a potential landing spot for T.O., while half the league has already said it doesn't want the mercurial receiver.

Wow. Good luck, Mr. McDaniels. You're going to need it.


http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/fo..._mcdaniel.html

[Northman]

Just saw this on the Mane as well.

Im fine with McDittles doing what he wants too. He is the boss now but if we dont make the playoffs this year i think that will be very telling what to expect from that point on. He was brought in to win and considering how close we were last year there's absolutely no reason we should miss the playoffs this year. Afterall, McD is an upgrade over Shanahan correct? lol

[Buff]

He's not getting paid to sit on his hands.

[BroncoWave]

:rolleyes: just the same junk the media has been recycling for a week. Wake me when they come up with something interesting.

And BTW, "average starters" and "good backups" are alot better than what we had on defense last season.

[Magnificent Seven]

I have a feeling for future. Pat Bowlen could fire McDaniels after 1-2 seasons and promote Mike Nolan to the position of head coach. Did anyone think of that?

[Medford Bronco]

:rolleyes: just the same junk the media has been recycling for a week. Wake me when they come up with something interesting.

And BTW, "average starters" and "good backups" are alot better than what we had on defense last season.

Which was 8 bad players an ok DJ Williams before getting hurt
a hurt Champ Bailey and an good at times Dumervill on passing downs


All I can see is Nate Webster missing another tackle
Jamie Winborn sucking wind vs SD
Marquand Manuel and Marlon McCree getting toasted
and Dre Bly getting beat deep.

Did Dwayne Roberston even play here (sarcasm) I dont remember much
good from that overrated stiff

Jarvis Moss who I hope can be an OLB next season was not good
and Marcus Thomas has been a stiff his whole career.

the average players are better than most of this crap and all the blame cant be put on Slowbrain, although he does deserve a lot of if in the Buffalo game where the Cbs were so far off that Edwards looked like Joe Monatana in that game:mad:

[turftoad]

Just saw this on the Mane as well.

Im fine with McDittles doing what he wants too. He is the boss now but if we dont make the playoffs this year i think that will be very telling what to expect from that point on. He was brought in to win and considering how close we were last year there's absolutely no reason we should miss the playoffs this year. Afterall, McD is an upgrade over Shanahan correct? lol

Yep all of those Belichick diciples are doing just great. I mean look at Eric Mangini, Charlie Weiss and Romeo Crennel have all done great as head coach's in recent years, no? :tsk:

Maybe, just maybe the PATRIOT WAY is not the WAY to go.

Guess we'll find out soon enough. I just don't like being the Patriots West.

[BroncoWave]

Yep all of those Belichick diciples are doing just great. I mean look at Eric Mangini, Charlie Weiss and Romeo Crennel have all done great as head coach's in recent years, no? :tsk:

Maybe, just maybe the PATRIOT WAY is not the WAY to go.

Guess we'll find out soon enough. I just don't like being the Patriots West.

Mangini was doing fine until the whole Favre drama was forced upon him. The other 2 were busts, but I want to wait until we can at least see McDaniels coach a year or 2 before proclaiming him a failure before he even coaches a game just because of what other coaches from NE did.

And if it winds up getting us a championship, I would LOVE to become Patriots West.

[Northman]

Mangini was doing fine until the whole Favre drama was forced upon him. The other 2 were busts, but I want to wait until we can at least see McDaniels coach a year or 2 before proclaiming him a failure before he even coaches a game just because of what other coaches from NE did.

And if it winds up getting us a championship, I would LOVE to become Patriots West.

Mangini was on board with the Favre saga so if that was what got him axed than he has no one to blame but himself.

[turftoad]

I have a feeling for future. Pat Bowlen could fire McDaniels after 1-2 seasons and promote Mike Nolan to the position of head coach. Did anyone think of that?

No, I haven't thought of that. What I have thought though is, If McBozo pisses this year down his leg, Shanny's had a year off to think about things.

Whats to say Bowlen doesn't bring Shanny back?

I mean, maybe there's more than one reason he didn't take a coaching job this year.

[Medford Bronco]

Mangini was on board with the Favre saga so if that was what got him axed than he has no one to blame but himself.

He got axed because he is the

He is the http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/small-animal-pictures-breeders-babies/rat-pictures-breeders-babies/pictures/rat-0031.jpg

[BroncoWave]

Mangini was on board with the Favre saga so if that was what got him axed than he has no one to blame but himself.

Regardless, I think it's utterly stupid to judge McDaniels on what other coaches have done. I am willing to let him accumulate his own body of work before I cast judgement on his abilities as a head coach. If Bowlen felt after the interview process that McDaniels was the man to coach this team, that's good enough for me for now.

[dogfish]

i'm going to copy/paste this post from another thread because i think it's relevant here. . .



really, this is pretty much SOP with bellyache assistants-- i guess we should have expected it. . . none of the guys that have come from his so-called coaching tree have any kind of people skills. . . they all want to act like they're belly himself, and they have the exact same arrogance and disdain for the rules and procedures that their peers more or less follow. . . they feel that they're above the rules, they don't have to answer to anyone or communicate with anyone, and they can just send their dictates down from on high. . .

when mangini went to new york he alienated pete kendall so badly that he forced his way out of town with a nasty and very public holdout. . . and over the past year both chris baker and laveranues coles have bitched about being lied to about contract extensions. . . kellen winslow talked his way out of cleveland after the FO and/or coaching staff tried to get him to cover the fact that he'd gotten a staph infection, and then threatened to suspend him when he revealed it to the media. . . charlie weiss is such a dick that pro scouts hate going to notre dame. . . and what's the FIRST damn thing mangina did when he got to cleveland? managed to piss off his best player, shaun rogers, so badly that he started demanding a trade. . . hmmmm, that sounds familiar, doesn't it?

scott pioli is already taking a similar high-handed approach with a proven vet in KC:


Jason Whitlock, of The Kansas City Star, reports Kansas City Chiefs OG Brian Waters has told the team he would like to be released or traded. The four-time Pro Bowl guard is "shocked and offended" by the reactions of new head coach Todd Haley and first-time general manager Scott Pioli. According to sources, Pioli told Waters that he had no interest in meeting with the veteran. Haley reportedly told Waters the team would not accommodate his desire to defect and that 22 players off the street could win two games, in reference to Waters' worth with the Chiefs from their 2-14 2008 season.


with the possible exception of tom dimitroff in ATL, pretty much every coach or exec that has come from new england is a major asshat, and it looks like doogie may be cut from the same cloth. . . these punks need to step back and realize that they aren't bill b, and they don't have any super bowl rings except the ones he got them. . . . he can get away with acting the way he does because he's proven himself and earned the respect-- none of these guys have earned shit yet. . . IMO, teams really need to evaluate more carefully whether it's worth taking an assistant from belly's staff. . . .

[Northman]

Regardless, I think it's utterly stupid to judge McDaniels on what other coaches have done. I am willing to let him accumulate his own body of work before I cast judgement on his abilities as a head coach. If Bowlen felt after the interview process that McDaniels was the man to coach this team, that's good enough for me for now.

Absolutely. But for now he has shown me nothing and has handled the Cutler situation quite poorly. But at the same time i have no problem with him putting his guys in place just so as long as we win the division and have a playoff birth. He was brought in to win so i expect immediate results. :D

[Northman]

He got axed because he is the

He is the http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/small-animal-pictures-breeders-babies/rat-pictures-breeders-babies/pictures/rat-0031.jpg

Dont you mean he is the

http://www.kontrastblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/nanos_cheese_product2.jpg

[turftoad]

i'm going to copy/paste this post from another thread because i think it's relevant here. . .

This is exactly why you have to at least consider judging McBozo to the rest of the Belichick diciples.

[Ziggy]

Instead of bringing in average starters, and making the McDaniels haters whine even more, let's just bring in draft picks and 1 or 2 1st tier free agents. Detroit, Kansas City, and Oakland are getting such good results with it, right? I heard the same crap when Shanahan came in.

You have to upgrade the overall quality and competition before you can make big improvements. If this team was one or two players away from winning the Super Bowl, then I could understand all of the griping about wholesale changes. We weren't though. We were one or two players away from winning the AFC West, which is one of the weakest divisions in the NFL.

[Lonestar]

Yep all of those Belichick diciples are doing just great. I mean look at Eric Mangini, Charlie Weiss and Romeo Crennel have all done great as head coach's in recent years, no? :tsk:

Maybe, just maybe the PATRIOT WAY is not the WAY to go.

Guess we'll find out soon enough. I just don't like being the Patriots West.

Just to what bottom dweller es did this others go to One went tot eh Jets but was Blessed with Brett Whom I love as a gutsy player.. But bringing him in minutes before the season started and then his arm injury near the EOY killed that coach. The Jets were gang busters during the middle of the season before Brett got hurt.

Sorry but not sure anyone can FIX CLE..

[Lonestar]

I'll wait to complain about his scheme, management style and player selection until after next season..

The only move I do not understand fully was bringing in another LS..

other than he wanted another EX Pat on the squad to show them how it is done the NE scheme.. Good players playing as a team....

[WARHORSE]

Lets hope we can choose rookies that can make an impact right away.

My first desire is not to pick defensive players in specific rounds. This wont necessarily make my day. But what I care more about is whether these players can come in and contribute right away......even if its special teams.

If we get three starters out of this years draft/undrafted FAgent class........I'll be more than happy. But even if we get three starters, I hope the others have the ability to get better, while playing special teams also.

Id rather draft an LT that plays than a DT that doesnt.

[fcspikeit]

I thought this was interesting so i'm posting it. My thoughts exactly.
------------------------------------------------------------------

What the heck is Josh McDaniels doing?

And we thought Eric Mangini was alienating his new team.

Check out this column by Dave Krieger of The Denver Post talking about new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels' interesting ways. Turns out the 32-year old who has never been a head coach and just took over for a two-time Super Bowl champ thinks his system is bigger than any player on the roster.

Who does he think he is, Bill Walsh? These Bill Belichick disciples have such egos — he must prop them up as genius assistants around the league knowing they'll fail with conference rivals.

McDaniels signed 12 free agents in eight days, and according to Krieger's column, 11 of them are in the "average starter" or "good backup" category in the Scouts Inc. free agent ratings — a group that includes running backs Correll Buckhalter, who has had knee issues his entire career, J.J. Arrington, who Krieger heard may have been on crutches during his visit to Denver, and LaMont Jordan, who has played in just 29 games the last three seasons. Strength in numbers, I guess.

The only free agent the Broncos signed in the "good player" category was Brian Dawkins, who is just two years younger than another Pro Bowl safety the Broncos used to employ.

Aside from his questionable signings, McDaniels is not making nice with quarterback Jay Cutler. Personally, I think Cutler is the second coming of Brett Favre (which some may think is a good thing, but I don't). Yet that's no reason for McDaniels to try and trade him for his former New England pupil Matt Cassel.

And many are opining that Cutler should quit his whining and stick to football.

Said Ron Jaworski to the Denver Post: "Jay reacted so negatively. I'm not sure if that's some sort of immaturity he has to get over. This is the business of football. Coaches talk all the time, general managers talk all the time . . . Really only about 1 percent of all that talk ever leads to anything getting done."

But do all those hypotheticals get made public? It seems to me McDaniels is the one acting like a child — wanting to bring all of his toys with him to a new town after leaving the old one (on his own volition, no less). Doesn't work that way, Josh.

And now people are talking about Denver as a potential landing spot for T.O., while half the league has already said it doesn't want the mercurial receiver.

Wow. Good luck, Mr. McDaniels. You're going to need it.


http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/fo..._mcdaniel.html

WOW,,

I was having a conversation with my brother last night about McDaniels, this is almost exactly the conclusion we came to as well..

Great read, thanks for posting! :salute:

[TXBRONC]

:rolleyes: just the same junk the media has been recycling for a week. Wake me when they come up with something interesting.

And BTW, "average starters" and "good backups" are alot better than what we had on defense last season.

According to Michael Lombardi the players that McDaniels has signed are not a significant upgrade over what we already had. I'm not saying he shouldn't have made the moves he has made because getting some fresh blood in here is a bad idea but a couple of them seemed like movement for the sake of movement.

[fcspikeit]

Just to what bottom dweller es did this others go to One went tot eh Jets but was Blessed with Brett Whom I love as a gutsy player.. But bringing him in minutes before the season started and then his arm injury near the EOY killed that coach. The Jets were gang busters during the middle of the season before Brett got hurt.

Sorry but not sure anyone can FIX CLE..

But you have to admit, all the BB disciples seem to have shit PR skills..

The jury is still out on McDaniels, if he can smooth this over with Cutler that will go along way in showing he is capable of being a leader of men and deserving of respect from his players..

[Simple Jaded]

Great post! :salute:

That's sometimes the problem when a coach believes too much in his system. He starts to think he can put anyone in there to perform, and he then underestimates the value of true talent. It's the same reason why Shanahan kept getting these late round and undrafted FA RBs for his system. McDaniels might be thinking the same thing.

Players versus system, I'd rather choose players. Some would rather choose the system.

If the remnants of Shanahan's RB corp taught McDenials anything it should have taught him that system players are a dime-o-dozen, legitimate starters, especially special players like Cutler that can start in any system, are what you build an offense/defense/team around.

If McDenials were to fail at this point, Denver would have to endure years of cap problems just to rid themselves of his special blend of Nothing players, all because the insecurities of him being a 32 year old rookie Head Coach forces him to sign players that are just lucky to have the contract that they owe to him.

I've seen how this movie ends.......

[BroncoWave]

According to Michael Lombardi the players that McDaniels has signed are not a significant upgrade over what we already had. I'm not saying he shouldn't have made the moves he has made because getting some fresh blood in here is a bad idea but a couple of them seemed like movement for the sake of movement.

Well shit, I guess if Michael Lombardi said it, it must be true!

[Lonestar]

But you have to admit, all the BB disciples seem to have shit PR skills..

The jury is still out on McDaniels, if he can smooth this over with Cutler that will go along way in showing he is capable of being a leader of men and deserving of respect from his players..

BY PR you mean not kissing the medias ass YEP that works..

Jury is only out on Josh in the fans eyes.. Pat seems to be content with what is going on and frankly he is the only guy that matters to Mc Kid..

The fans will be fans regardless Bronco fans have been supporting this team since 1960 through thick and thin..

Could they have a bit better media skills perhaps.. But DEN is a tough town ask John, Jake and Jay.. they turn on QB's faster than coaches and owners.

[BroncoWave]

I'll wait to complain about his scheme, management style and player selection until after next season..

The only move I do not understand fully was bringing in another LS..

other than he wanted another EX Pat on the squad to show them how it is done the NE scheme.. Good players playing as a team....

This is the most important point IMO. People already judging him and calling him a terrible coach based on a story that has been ridiculously blown out of proportion by the fans and the media is kinda ridiculous.

Now if he goes 4-12 next year, then sure, I'll hop aboard the bash McDaniels train, but until he shows what he's made out of as a head coach, I'm not going to throw him under the bus like half of our fans already have.

[TXBRONC]

Well shit, I guess if Michael Lombardi said it, it must be true!

Well shit it's not a criticism if fact, if I could remember where I read the article was actually appauding for moves. By the way he has been an executive in the NFL so he does have more expertise than either one of us.

[BroncoWave]

Well shit it's not a criticism if fact, if I could remember where I read the article was actually appauding for moves. By the way he has been an executive in the NFL so he does have more expertise than either one of us.

I am nearly 100% certain that our defense is better now than it was at the end of last season. There is a reason no one is signing any of our defensive free agents. They suck. Hell, the signing of Dawkins alone makes our D that much better.

But if the players we dropped were no worse than the ones we signed, they'd have caught on somewhere by now.

[Simple Jaded]

Jason Whitlock, of The Kansas City Star, reports Kansas City Chiefs OG Brian Waters has told the team he would like to be released or traded. The four-time Pro Bowl guard is "shocked and offended" by the reactions of new head coach Todd Haley and first-time general manager Scott Pioli. According to sources, Pioli told Waters that he had no interest in meeting with the veteran. Haley reportedly told Waters the team would not accommodate his desire to defect and that 22 players off the street could win two games, in reference to Waters' worth with the Chiefs from their 2-14 2008 season.


OMG!!!!!!! Brian Waters is such a baby! Who in the hell does he think he is, huh? John Elway? He should be traded immediately because I am so sick of his petulant attitude.......and he has stupid hair, too!!!!!!!.......


People that so clearly fail without the guidance of Belicheat need not act like they're the second coming of the man who got them where they are. Hopefully McDenials is different, but judging by his limited body of work so far, I'm afraid he's the biggest idiot of them all.

[edit]
This post is here because it is relevant to the way Doogie and the rest of the Belichick groupies act and because I want it to be here.......

[Lonestar]

This is the most important point IMO. People already judging him and calling him a terrible coach based on a story that has been ridiculously blown out of proportion by the fans and the media is kinda ridiculous.

Now if he goes 4-12 next year, then sure, I'll hop aboard the bash McDaniels train, but until he shows what he's made out of as a head coach, I'm not going to throw him under the bust like half of our fans already have.

I would not have an issue with 4-12 considering the schedule, the learning curve and lastly the talent acquired in the draft..

We all know that DL talent rarely plays to their peak until year 3.. Switching schemes, coaches, talent out this year, is gonna drive a stake in the teams playoff heart IMHO..


As long as they progress and have some great games in there that is all I feel we can hope for this year.. Play lots of rookies from 2008-09 or those 3rd year DL we got in 2007. See what they are made of and if we have to have some do over in the draft NEXT year fine by me..

Before the coaching change I was a strong advocate of 2009-12 being our Glory days Now I see it 2010-13 being them..

Thought that mikey would get some band aids on the defense next year and a new DC so most of the issues would have been top 20 on Defense. But that did not happen so we start with a clean sweep on D and REBUILD like we should have 5 years ago..

[BroncoWave]

I would not have an issue with 4-12 considering the schedule, the learning curve and lastly the talent acquired in the draft..

We all know that DL talent rarely plays to their peak until year 3.. Switching schemes, coaches, talent out this year, is gonna drive a stake in the teams playoff heart IMHO..


As long as they progress and have some great games in there that is all I feel we can hope for this year.. Play lots of rookies from 2008-09 or those 3rd year DL we got in 2007. See what they are made of and if we have to have some do over in the draft NEXT year fine by me..

Before the coaching change I was a strong advocate of 2009-12 being our Glory days Now I see it 2010-13 being them..

Thought that mikey would get some band aids on the defense next year and a new DC so most of the issues would have been top 20 on Defense. But that did not happen so we start with a clean sweep on D and REBUILD like we should have 5 years ago..

Seeing as we are returining basically our entire offense, I think 4-12 would be a pretty disappointing year. Hell, even if the defense is just a tad better than last year's I don't think somewhere between 7-9 wins is out of the question.

[Simple Jaded]

Well shit, I guess if Michael Lombardi said it, it must be true!

Michael Lombardi has more experience in evaluating talent than McDenials and Xanahan combined.......

[Lonestar]

Seeing as we are returining basically our entire offense, I think 4-12 would be a pretty disappointing year. Hell, even if the defense is just a tad better than last year's I don't think somewhere between 7-9 wins is out of the question.


Hey anything is possible but this up coming schedule is gonna be a bitch.. I is premature to even speculate on W-L for 2009 IMHO..

W as saying I'd be happy with that considering all of the changes and getting to know each other..

As long as they get better game after game instead of back sliding like they do each year. starting gang busters and wimping out the last 4 games each year..

By getting better does not mean winning all of them just not getting our asses kicked like we did last year..

I see this upcoming team on both sides of the LOS being somewhat bigger,faster and alot more nasty than in years past with mikeys finesse offense and bend but don;t break defense not to mention do we have 11 players even on the field on Special teams..........

[Lonestar]

Michael Lombardi has more experience in evaluating talent than McDenials and Xanahan combined.......

A bit bitter are we?

If Lombardi was so special he'd be a GM again.. Pat saw his action a few years back and passed on him when we needed one..

[TXBRONC]

I am nearly 100% certain that our defense is better now than it was at the end of last season. There is a reason no one is signing any of our defensive free agents. They suck. Hell, the signing of Dawkins alone makes our D that much better.

But if the players we dropped were no worse than the ones we signed, they'd have caught on somewhere by now.

I'm just saying.

[TXBRONC]

A bit bitter are we?

If Lombardi was so special he'd be a GM again.. Pat saw his action a few years back and passed on him when we needed one..

Maybe you're not familar with statements of fact? :coffee:

[Simple Jaded]

A bit bitter are we?

If Lombardi was so special he'd be a GM again.. Pat saw his action a few years back and passed on him when we needed one..



Not at all, I'm just pointing out the obvious, it would seem that BTB would like to discredit Lombardi's opinion even though his resume shows he is clearly more qualified than McDenials and Xanahan, the people he is defending:

Michael Lombardi is a former executive in American professional football.

Michael Lombardi’s 20 years in the NFL circle gives him access and insight into the minds of football’s greatest architects (Bill Walsh, Mike Shanahan, Bill Belichick, Marty Schottenheimer and more). Furthermore, Mike has personal access to every NFL general manager, head coach and head scout.

Mike oversaw the Oakland Raiders’ and the Cleveland Browns’ personnel departments for several years, selected the talent for those teams and evaluated every player currently in the NFL. Mike will give us a distinct advantage over our competitors because of his elite status within NFL circles, his charismatic communication skills, his unparalleled expertise evaluating every aspect of football and his personal experience working as a Senior Executive. He has also negotiated player contracts for multiple NFL teams, working hand in hand with owners, head coaches, general managers, salary cap managers and pro personnel directors. His vast skill set and unique experiences far exceed those of our competition.

-23 Years as a high level executive in the NFL

-12 years in the NFL Playoffs

-5 Conference Championship Games

-2 Super Bowls: Win (1984) Loss (2003)

-26 years of professionally evaluating football players (college & pro)

-Host, CBS Sports "NFL Pregame Show"

-Has worked with the San Francisco 49ers, Cleveland Browns, Oakland Raiders, Philadelphia Eagles, and Denver Broncos

-Talent and writer for Sports Illustrated, NFL Network and SI.com

-Author, LombardiOnFootball.com, a blog becomming well-known in insider circles.......

[Lonestar]

Not at all, I'm just pointing out the obvious, it would seem that BTB would like to discredit Lombardi's opinion even though his resume shows he is clearly more qualified than McDenials and Xanahan, the people he is defending:

Michael Lombardi is a former executive in American professional football.

Michael Lombardi’s 20 years in the NFL circle gives him access and insight into the minds of football’s greatest architects (Bill Walsh, Mike Shanahan, Bill Belichick, Marty Schottenheimer and more). Furthermore, Mike has personal access to every NFL general manager, head coach and head scout.

Mike oversaw the Oakland Raiders’ and the Cleveland Browns’ personnel departments for several years, selected the talent for those teams and evaluated every player currently in the NFL. Mike will give us a distinct advantage over our competitors because of his elite status within NFL circles, his charismatic communication skills, his unparalleled expertise evaluating every aspect of football and his personal experience working as a Senior Executive. He has also negotiated player contracts for multiple NFL teams, working hand in hand with owners, head coaches, general managers, salary cap managers and pro personnel directors. His vast skill set and unique experiences far exceed those of our competition.

-23 Years as a high level executive in the NFL

-12 years in the NFL Playoffs

-5 Conference Championship Games

-2 Super Bowls: Win (1984) Loss (2003)

-26 years of professionally evaluating football players (college & pro)

-Host, CBS Sports "NFL Pregame Show"

-Has worked with the San Francisco 49ers, Cleveland Browns, Oakland Raiders, Philadelphia Eagles, and Denver Broncos

-Talent and writer for Sports Illustrated, NFL Network and SI.com

-Author, LombardiOnFootball.com, a blog becomming well-known in insider circles.......


and all of that and 50 cents will get him a cup of coffee in Dove Valley.. He came in and evaluated stuff a couple of years ago for mikey, Pat or someone and his recommendations were considered crap by whomever He did it for..

Right wrong or indifferent when Pat went looking for a GM he did not call Mike..

Pat hired Mc Kid and Xman get used to it and stop whining about it.. Until they have a worse record than mikey did the last 3 years let them rebuild this disaster of a defense..

[Simple Jaded]

and all of that and 50 cents will get him a cup of coffee in Dove Valley.. He came in and evaluated stuff a couple of years ago for mikey, Pat or someone and his recommendations were considered crap by whomever He did it for..

Right wrong or indifferent when Pat went looking for a GM he did not call Mike..

Pat hired Mc Kid and Xman get used to it and stop whining about it.. Until they have a worse record than mikey did the last 3 years let them rebuild this disaster of a defense..

I'm simply pointing out the obvious, you can argue whatever you want, but personally, Pat Bowlen's decision making is not exactly the argument I'd be making.

Btw, Jr, I'll stop whining when I ******* feel like it.......

[Lonestar]

I'm simply pointing out the obvious, you can argue whatever you want, but personally, Pat Bowlen's decision making is not exactly the argument I'd be making.

Btw, Jr, I'll stop whining when I ******* feel like it.......

Pat has made a couple of righteous GM/HC changes in the past.. What is the matter no faith? Frankly I'm OK with it and hey until you pony a half a Billion it is his teams to run HOWEVER he wants to..


Or is it uncle mike your worried about?

[TXBRONC]

I'm simply pointing out the obvious, you can argue whatever you want, but personally, Pat Bowlen's decision making is not exactly the argument I'd be making.

Btw, Jr, I'll stop whining when I ******* feel like it.......

Some people are very hypocritical Link.

[Simple Jaded]

Pat has made a couple of righteous GM/HC changes in the past.. What is the matter no faith? Frankly I'm OK with it and hey until you pony a half a Billion it is his teams to run HOWEVER he wants to..


Or is it uncle mike your worried about?

Pat Bowlen is an idiot, just when he should be firing Shanahan or giving him an ultimatum he's instead giving him an enormous raise.......fast forward five years, two years after giving him yet another extension, he should be giving Shanahan time to finish rebuilding the team, instead he fired him.

Combine that with the fact that he's apparently learned nothing from giving one man too much power and you have just a few reasons why Bowlen is the last person I'd be using to base an argument.......

[TXBRONC]

Pat Bowlen is an idiot, just when he should be firing Shanahan or giving him an ultimatum he's instead giving him an enormous raise.......fast forward five years, two years after giving him yet another extension, he should be giving Shanahan time to finish rebuilding the team, instead he fired him.

Combine that with the fact that he's apparently learned nothing from giving one man too much power and you have just a few reasons why Bowlen is the last person I'd be using to base an argument.......

It's called convenience.

[Northman]

I am nearly 100% certain that our defense is better now than it was at the end of last season. There is a reason no one is signing any of our defensive free agents. They suck. Hell, the signing of Dawkins alone makes our D that much better.

But if the players we dropped were no worse than the ones we signed, they'd have caught on somewhere by now.

Well, we havent seen them play yet dude. On paper they look better but we havent seen anything yet. I thought you said you were going to wait until the season was over before proclaiming victory? :lol:

[Northman]

I would not have an issue with 4-12 considering the schedule, the learning curve and lastly the talent acquired in the draft..

We all know that DL talent rarely plays to their peak until year 3.. Switching schemes, coaches, talent out this year, is gonna drive a stake in the teams playoff heart IMHO..


As long as they progress and have some great games in there that is all I feel we can hope for this year.. Play lots of rookies from 2008-09 or those 3rd year DL we got in 2007. See what they are made of and if we have to have some do over in the draft NEXT year fine by me..

Before the coaching change I was a strong advocate of 2009-12 being our Glory days Now I see it 2010-13 being them..

Thought that mikey would get some band aids on the defense next year and a new DC so most of the issues would have been top 20 on Defense. But that did not happen so we start with a clean sweep on D and REBUILD like we should have 5 years ago..


McD wasnt brought in to win 3 years down the road. Sorry. Considering what we did with the type of team we had we should be in the playoffs next year. McDump was brought in to win now, not years down the road. No since bringing someone else in when the team was already heading that direction anyway. Now you say give him a couple of years? Give me a break. Bowlen thinks thats McDump is the missing key than Denver better see the results of it right away. Ridiculous to even think otherwise.

[Northman]

Seeing as we are returining basically our entire offense, I think 4-12 would be a pretty disappointing year. Hell, even if the defense is just a tad better than last year's I don't think somewhere between 7-9 wins is out of the question.


4-12 would totally unacceptable considering what we did last year with one of the worst defenses in the league. I think what i see is people preparing themselves for excuses if the guy doesnt deliver.

[BroncoWave]

Well, we havent seen them play yet dude. On paper they look better but we havent seen anything yet. I thought you said you were going to wait until the season was over before proclaiming victory? :lol:

I said I was going to wait until the end of the season before I judge McDaniels. But I think it's prettly clear that we have upgraded the talent on our defense.

[fcspikeit]

BY PR you mean not kissing the medias ass YEP that works..

Jury is only out on Josh in the fans eyes.. Pat seems to be content with what is going on and frankly he is the only guy that matters to Mc Kid..

The fans will be fans regardless Bronco fans have been supporting this team since 1960 through thick and thin..

Could they have a bit better media skills perhaps.. But DEN is a tough town ask John, Jake and Jay.. they turn on QB's faster than coaches and owners.

How do you know Pat is Content with McKid? Has he said anything in support of him since after all this trade talk went on? Isn't that the whole point? Their saying nothing, by not including the fans in what is going on, there is more of a separation between the team and fans. More then there has ever been.

Do you feel apart of this team Jr? Do you feel like McDaniels gives a rats ass about you? As a fan, is that the type pf relationship you want with the Broncos?

By the way, PR = Player Relations...

[Lonestar]

McD wasnt brought in to win 3 years down the road. Sorry. Considering what we did with the type of team we had we should be in the playoffs next year. McDump was brought in to win now, not years down the road. No since bringing someone else in when the team was already heading that direction anyway. Now you say give him a couple of years? Give me a break. Bowlen thinks thats McDump is the missing key than Denver better see the results of it right away. Ridiculous to even think otherwise.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.. we will win some lose some but those we lose will not be like the past two years losses..

Even Pat is not stupid enough to think a complete rebuild of a Defense is going to make this team whole in ONE year..

Anyone else believing in the tooth fairy may not either....

Wish with one hand, excrete in the other see which on fills up first..

[Northman]

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.. we will win some lose some but those we lose will not be like the past two years losses..

Even Pat is not stupid enough to think a complete rebuild of a Defense is going to make this team whole in ONE year..

Anyone else believing in the tooth fairy may not either....

Wish with one hand, excrete in the other see which on fills up first..

It doesnt need to be a top 10 defense to make the playoffs. My point is we can be middle of the pack defensively and still make the playoffs. And what proof do you have that we wont face blowouts like we did last year?

[MOtorboat]

How do you know Pat is Content with McKid? Has he said anything in support of him since after all this trade talk went on? Isn't that the whole point? Their saying nothing, by not including the fans in what is going on there is more of a separation between the fans and team then there ever has been.

Do you feel apart of this team Jr? Do you feel like McDaniels gives a rats ass about you? As a fan, is that the type pf relationship you want with the Broncos?

By the way, PR = Player Relations...

Sorry, but player/personnel decisions have nothing to do with the fans. I will always be a "part" of this team.

It's just stupid to even think that fans should be a part of this process. Winning appeases the fans, not openness.

New England hasn't told the media shit since Belichick got there, and you know what, they've got 3 Super Bowl titles.

[Lonestar]

How do you know Pat is Content with McKid? Has he said anything in support of him since after all this trade talk went on? Isn't that the whole point? Their saying nothing, by not including the fans in what is going on, there is more of a separation between the team and fans. More then there has ever been.

Do you feel apart of this team Jr? Do you feel like McDaniels gives a rats ass about you? As a fan, is that the type pf relationship you want with the Broncos?

By the way, PR = Player Relations...


my my ain't we a bit testy since I've been gone a couple of days..

Unless I mistaken as a NON season ticket holder I do not expect him to care what I think whatsoever..

As a fan I expect them to play good ball consistently and if that means getting to the playoffs great.

I just do not see it this year..

Perhaps 2010 but more likely 11-13..

BTW I suspect that Pat is OK with Mc Kid or He'd be gone already.. I think Pat realizes this was much ado about nothing like most fans do..

[fcspikeit]

my my ain't we a bit testy since I've been gone a couple of days..

Unless I mistaken as a NON season ticket holder I do not expect him to care what I think whatsoever..

As a fan I expect them to play good ball consistently and if that means getting to the playoffs great.

I just do not see it this year..

Perhaps 2010 but more likely 11-13..

BTW I suspect that Pat is OK with Mc Kid or He'd be gone already.. I think Pat realizes this was much ado about nothing like most fans do..

Couldn't the same be said for Cutler? For all we know Bowlen could be the reason Cutler is still a Bronco..

[MOtorboat]

Couldn't the same be said for Cutler? For all we know Bowlen could be the reason Cutler is still a Bronco..

Or, for all we know, Bowlen might have been the reason that Cutler was being "shopped." (which, for the record, I don't believe he was, nor have the Broncos indicated as such)

But, since we're going along with that scenario and the complete speculation, maybe Bowlen is sick of Cutler, his attitude and his flabby mouth...

[getlynched47]

As much as I love Scheffler...he's as good as gone.

I think his contract expires after this season...so the Broncos want to get some compensation for him since they know they won't re-sign him...because McDaniels' offense doesnt run 2 tightend sets...so there's no need for a #2 pass-catching tightend in his stupid system.

I really dont want to see Scheffler go, but he's a goner...

[Northman]

As much as I love Scheffler...he's as good as gone.

I think his contract expires after this season...so the Broncos want to get some compensation for him since they know they won't re-sign him...because McDaniels' offense doesnt run 2 tightend sets...so there's no need for a #2 pass-catching tightend in his stupid system.

I really dont want to see Scheffler go, but he's a goner...

If thats the case i would like to see us Draft a guy like Nelson then.

[BroncoWave]

As much as I love Scheffler...he's as good as gone.

I think his contract expires after this season...so the Broncos want to get some compensation for him since they know they won't re-sign him...because McDaniels' offense doesnt run 2 tightend sets...so there's no need for a #2 pass-catching tightend in his stupid system.

I really dont want to see Scheffler go, but he's a goner...

Yeah, darn that stupid system that led a team to an 18-1 season and an 11-5 season with a backup QB. Why would we ever want that?

[fcspikeit]

Sorry, but player/personnel decisions have nothing to do with the fans. I will always be a "part" of this team.

It's just stupid to even think that fans should be a part of this process. Winning appeases the fans, not openness.

New England hasn't told the media shit since Belichick got there, and you know what, they've got 3 Super Bowl titles.

Everything the team does has everything to do with the fans.. Without the fans, there is no NFL, period!


Winning isn’t everything. Maybe those who live in Denver take some extra pride in the Broncos winning a championship and bringing it back home to Denver and because of that they would be willing to put up with a lousy organization, as long as their winning. I however couldn’t care less about Denver winning another championship. I support the Broncos as an organization. I support the players who bust their butts to better that organization. I in turn feel the organization should support and reword those players for doing such. You I and everyone on this board take our time to support this team. It is because of us fans there even is a team. If the organization really doesn’t care about us, they can go strait to HELL!

Why would you even support a team if you really believed they didn’t care or appreciate your support?

The NFL produces a product, If there was no one to buy that product they would go out of business.. Therefore, it is in the best interest of each team to produce something we fans want to buy. If their really trying to say, “like it or not, this is what you’re getting, deal with it.” I got news for them. They can stick that shit where the sun don’t shine! I don’t have to buy what their selling... :coffee:

[MOtorboat]

Everything the team does has everything to do with the fans.. Without the fans, there is no NFL, period!


Winning isn’t everything. Maybe those who live in Denver take some extra pride in the Broncos winning a championship and bringing it back home to Denver and because of that they would be willing to put up with a lousy organization, as long as their winning. I however couldn’t care less about Denver winning another championship. I support the Broncos as an organization. I support the players who bust their butts to better that organization. I in turn feel the organization should support and reword those players for doing such. You I and everyone on this board take our time to support this team. It is because of us fans there even is a team. If the organization really doesn’t care about us, they can go strait to HELL!

Why would you even support a team if you really believed they didn’t care or appreciate your support?

The NFL produces a product, If there was no one to buy that product they would go out of business.. Therefore, it is in the best interest of each team to produce something we fans want to buy. If their really trying to say, “like it or not, this is what you’re getting, deal with it.” I got news for them. They can stick that shit where the sun don’t shine! I don’t have to buy what their selling... :coffee:

Well, the business of the game has nothing to do with us whether you like it or not. I'm glad you're passionate. But the Broncos owe us nothing, other than a quality product. If the means of providing a quality product aren't to your liking that's not mine, or your, problem.

I really hope that they don't take the fans opinion into consideration when making moves. Doing so would be utterly stupid.

You can support the players all you want, but this is a business, plain and simple.

Quite frankly, the only thing that has to do with the fans is tickets sales. I know that hurts to hear, but that's the truth.

[fcspikeit]

Well, the business of the game has nothing to do with us whether you like it or not. I'm glad you're passionate. But the Broncos owe us nothing, other than a quality product. If the means of providing a quality product aren't to your liking that's not mine, or your, problem.

I really hope that they don't take the fans opinion into consideration when making moves. Doing so would be utterly stupid.

You can support the players all you want, but this is a business, plain and simple.

Quite frankly, the only thing that has to do with the fans is tickets sales. I know that hurts to hear, but that's the truth.

You don't think keeping the fans happy sells tickets?

There is a commitment true fans make to the team. There are fans that only support a team because their winning, they jump around from team to team depending on who's winning at the time. We have a name for those types of fans who only seem to care about winning.

I have never been one of those fans. Of course I want the team to win, but not at all cost’s. I want the players to be the best they can be, but I don’t support those taking drugs to achieve their goals. IMO winning doesn’t condone that.

NE cheated with the video tapings, what pissed me off the most about that was most the fans didn’t really care. Belichick got a pass because he did it in the name of winning. I expect more then that out of a team I am supporting.

IMO McDaniels needs to care about rather or not the fan’s like him, he needs to try and build a relationship with us fans. Without our support, of this team he wouldn’t have a job.

[MOtorboat]

You don't think keeping the fans happy sells tickets?

There is a commitment true fans make to the team. There are fans that only support a team because their winning, they jump around from team to team depending on who's winning at the time. We have a name for those types of fans who only seem to care about winning.

I have never been one of those fans. Of course I want the team to win, but not at all cost’s. I want the players to be the best they can be, but I don’t support those taking drugs to achieve their goals. IMO winning doesn’t condone that.

NE cheated with the video tapings, what pissed me off the most about that was most the fans didn’t really care. Belichick got a pass because he did it in the name of winning. I expect more then that out of a team I am supporting.

IMO McDaniels needs to care about rather or not the fan’s like him, he needs to try and build a relationship with us fans. Without our support, of this team he wouldn’t have a job.

I'm glad you're passionate. But you have a very skewed version of reality.

[omac]

I have a feeling for future. Pat Bowlen could fire McDaniels after 1-2 seasons and promote Mike Nolan to the position of head coach. Did anyone think of that?

Yikes, hope not. Nolan sucked as a head coach. :D

[omac]

I'm glad you're passionate. But you have a very skewed version of reality.

If the front office didn't care about fan opinions, then Green Bay wouldn't have allowed themselves to be kept hostage by Brett Favre, and they would've started Aaron Rodgers much earlier. The real business is about keeping fans happy, so they can continue to spend on your product. If you have a product people don't like, they won't buy it, plain and simple.

[dogfish]

If the front office didn't care about fan opinions, then Green Bay wouldn't have allowed themselves to be kept hostage by Brett Favre, and they would've started Aaron Rodgers much earlier. The real business is about keeping fans happy, so they can continue to spend on your product. If you have a product people don't like, they won't buy it, plain and simple.


correct-- there are plenty of organizations that don't give a shit whether they win or lose as long as there are enough butts in the seats to keep the cash flowing. . . the LA clippers have been notorious for it over the years. . .

MO, if you think every organization is dedicated to putting a winning product on the field, i suspect that you're the one with the skewed view of reality. . . now, if you're only talking about the broncos specifically then i'd be more likely to say that you're right, but if you're trying to paint every sports organization with that same brush then you're flat wrong-- most owners are businessmen first, and i'm sure that bowlen feels that way too. . . of course winning is a powerful draw, but in captive markets with generations of fan loyalty where's the real financial incentive to risk many extra millions when it guarantees nothing? for every dan snyder or jerry jones out there there's also a ralph wilson or charlie monfort. . . .

[MOtorboat]

correct-- there are plenty of organizations that don't give a shit whether they win or lose as long as there are enough butts in the seats to keep the cash flowing. . . the LA clippers have been notorious for it over the years. . .

MO, if you think every organization is dedicated to putting a winning product on the field, i suspect that you're the one with the skewed view of reality. . . now, if you're only talking about the broncos specifically then i'd be more likely to say that you're right, but if you're trying to paint every sports organization with that same brush then you're flat wrong-- most owners are businessmen first, and i'm sure that bowlen feels that way too. . . of course winning is a powerful draw, but in captive markets with generations of fan loyalty where's the real financial incentive to risk many extra millions when it guarantees nothing? for every dan snyder or jerry jones out there there's also a ralph wilson or charlie monfort. . . .

Putting a winning product on the field has nothing to do with being open towards the fans, or "building a relationship" with the fans. That was my original point. McDaniels doesn't owe it to the fans to come tell us everything he's doing, that includes trading a quarterback, or signing some running backs.

[Northman]

correct-- there are plenty of organizations that don't give a shit whether they win or lose as long as there are enough butts in the seats to keep the cash flowing. . . the LA clippers have been notorious for it over the years. . .



And the Baltimore Orioles.

Its disgusting what Angelos has done to that team.

[getlynched47]

As much as I love Scheffler...he's as good as gone.

I think his contract expires after this season...so the Broncos want to get some compensation for him since they know they won't re-sign him...because McDaniels' offense doesnt run 2 tightend sets...so there's no need for a #2 pass-catching tightend in his stupid system.

I really dont want to see Scheffler go, but he's a goner...


Yeah, darn that stupid system that led a team to an 18-1 season and an 11-5 season with a backup QB. Why would we ever want that?

Would it kill McDaniels to do something a little different here in Denver? I know that McDaniels has his system, and that it's very successful. But if you have the tools, the players in this case, why not use them? You have 2 excellent pass-catching Tight Ends....USE THEM! Dont just try and get rid of one of them....you can add a new element to your offense...just incorporate the Tight Ends...McDaniels seems scared of changing up the system to fit the offensive players we have

[Lonestar]

Would it kill McDaniels to do something a little different here in Denver? I know that McDaniels has his system, and that it's very successful. But if you have the tools, the players in this case, why not use them? You have 2 excellent pass-catching Tight Ends....USE THEM! Dont just try and get rid of one of them....you can add a new element to your offense...just incorporate the Tight Ends...McDaniels seems scared of changing up the system to fit the offensive players we have

If he can get something of value for him, before he becomes a UFA why not.. If he does not fit into the system you know square peg into a rounds hole why go to the trouble of either rounding off the squares corners or whittling the round hole into a square hole to allow him to fit.

Mc Kid has a lot more to worry about than dealing with a guy that is oft hurt and unable to be on the field..Trying to make a Escalade out of a Ford Bronco is time consuming and no guarantees of it working....

Trade for value is a good alternative..

[getlynched47]

If he can get something of value for him, before he becomes a UFA why not.. If he does not fit into the system you know square peg into a rounds hole why go to the trouble of either rounding off the squares corners or whittling the round hole into a square hole to allow him to fit.

Mc Kid has a lot more to worry about than dealing with a guy that is oft hurt and unable to be on the field..Trying to make a Escalade out of a Ford Bronco is time consuming and no guarantees of it working....

Trade for value is a good alternative..

I know that's what McDaniels is trying to do...he wants to get value for Scheff because this is his final contract year. Kind of like how we got rid of Foxworth before his contract expired...that worked out for us :rolleyes:

[Lonestar]

I know that's what McDaniels is trying to do...he wants to get value for Scheff because this is his final contract year. Kind of like how we got rid of Foxworth before his contract expired...that worked out for us :rolleyes:
.

yes it did and frankly foxworth is nothing special.. might have been an adequate CB for us in a couple of years with a DL we are about to get.. So mikey was smart enough to get something for him..

[BroncoWave]

.

yes it did and frankly foxworth is nothing special.. might have been an adequate CB for us in a couple of years with a DL we are about to get.. So mikey was smart enough to get something for him..

Never thought I'd see you type those words in that order! :D

[BroncoWave]

I know that's what McDaniels is trying to do...he wants to get value for Scheff because this is his final contract year. Kind of like how we got rid of Foxworth before his contract expired...that worked out for us :rolleyes:

You're right, it did work out for us. We weren't going to re-sign him anyway, so why not get some value for him instead of letting him walk for nothing? I mean, seeing as we had no pass rush to help him he was of no use to us anyway.

[fcspikeit]

Putting a winning product on the field has nothing to do with being open towards the fans, or "building a relationship" with the fans. That was my original point. McDaniels doesn't owe it to the fans to come tell us everything he's doing, that includes trading a quarterback, or signing some running backs.

I didn't say he should tell the media everything, But he could be doing more in regards to the fans and this situation..

[Lonestar]

Never thought I'd see you type those words in that order! :D


Was wondering if someone would bite on that comment..

If you consider getting a 7th for a decent but nothing special 3RD round DAFT choice yeah I guess it was smart..:laugh::laugh:

[Lonestar]

I didn't say he should tell the media everything, But he could be doing more in regards to the fans and this situation..
.

Like what?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Actually, Foxworth was a third rounder.

[BroncoWave]

Actually, Foxworth was a third rounder.

Nice to have you back Cicero!

[skycoyote]

Would it kill McDaniels to do something a little different here in Denver? I know that McDaniels has his system, and that it's very successful. But if you have the tools, the players in this case, why not use them? You have 2 excellent pass-catching Tight Ends....USE THEM! Dont just try and get rid of one of them....you can add a new element to your offense...just incorporate the Tight Ends...McDaniels seems scared of changing up the system to fit the offensive players we have

He's a very inexperienced coach who only know one system. If his system fails it will be Cutler's fault. I wouldn't expect alot out of this regime.

[claymore]

He's a very inexperienced coach who only know one system. If his system fails it will be Cutler's fault. I wouldn't expect alot out of this regime.

Cutler is smart and a pretty good athlete. Im sure if its the system, we will all know. And unless Marshall gets traded, he knows his pay day is on the line, so expect uber break out year for him via Cutler.

We are all counting on Josh McD to bring in scrubs like NE and make them great. If he does, I wont question his risque moves again.

[TXBRONC]

Cutler is smart and a pretty good athlete. Im sure if its the system, we will all know. And unless Marshall gets traded, he knows his pay day is on the line, so expect uber break out year for him via Cutler.

We are all counting on Josh McD to bring in scrubs like NE and make them great. If he does, I wont question his risque moves again.

I'm sure Jay will grasp the offense quickly enough to be successful.

[getlynched47]

.

yes it did and frankly foxworth is nothing special.. might have been an adequate CB for us in a couple of years with a DL we are about to get.. So mikey was smart enough to get something for him..

Very smart move....getting rid of a young starter for a 7th round draft pick :coffee:

[Lonestar]

Very smart move....getting rid of a young starter for a 7th round draft pick :coffee:


he was not a starter other than in some folks mini minds..

[claymore]

he was not a starter other than in some folks mini minds..

He was in Atlanta. Bly wasnt any worse than Foxy would have been. Nor was Bly any better.

[getlynched47]

he was not a starter other than in some folks mini minds..

Yes he was/is. The only reason he didnt start when he was with the Broncos was because that would mean that Bly would get benched. And Shanahan did not want to bench Bly with the money he was making because that would make both of them look bad. Foxworth could have EASILY beat Dre Bly out to start opposite Champ Bailey. If Shanahan would've let Foxworth start (BTW he out performed Bly in training camp...i was there) then that would basically admit another bad offseason acquisition.

Foxworth is a starter. He was excellent for the Falcons and will be one of the top young corners in the game like Revis for NYJ....book it.

[BroncoWave]

Very smart move....getting rid of a young starter for a 7th round draft pick :coffee:

First of all, he wasn't a starter and second, he was terrible in Denver. Since this was his contract year and they had no plans of bringing him back anyway, why NOT get some value for him?

Sure, he did better in ATL but that's because they had a pass rush. Given the state of our pass rush last year, he would have likely been just as ineffective this year as he had been.

For the life of me, I can't figure out what he ever did in Denver on the field to make people like him.

[getlynched47]

Yes he was/is. The only reason he didnt start when he was with the Broncos was because that would mean that Bly would get benched. And Shanahan did not want to bench Bly with the money he was making because that would make both of them look bad. Foxworth could have EASILY beat Dre Bly out to start opposite Champ Bailey. If Shanahan would've let Foxworth start (BTW he out performed Bly in training camp...i was there) then that would basically admit another bad offseason acquisition.

Foxworth is a starter. He was excellent for the Falcons and will be one of the top young corners in the game like Revis for NYJ....book it.


First of all, he wasn't a starter and second, he was terrible in Denver. Since this was his contract year and they had no plans of bringing him back anyway, why NOT get some value for him?

Sure, he did better in ATL but that's because they had a pass rush. Given the state of our pass rush last year, he would have likely been just as ineffective this year as he had been.

For the life of me, I can't figure out what he ever did in Denver on the field to make people like him.

In terms of just cornerback play...Foxworth >>>>>>>>>> Bly

I saw it throughout training camp.

I know he wasnt hot during preseason...Foxworth IS a starter...he could've been but Shanny didnt want to bench Bly, which was basically just admitting another offseason acquisition failure.

He probably would've been horrible with us last year like u said...but that means we could re-sign him for Andre Goodman money to start here this season. He just wanted an opportunity to start.

[TXBRONC]

he was not a starter other than in some folks mini minds..

Instead of speaking in ignorance, why don't you take a look at Atlanta's depth chart genius.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/depth?team=atl&formationId=16

[getlynched47]

Instead of speaking in ignorance, why don't you take a look at Atlanta's depth chart genius.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/depth?team=atl&formationId=16

damn man :eek:...i've never seen somebody so badass that they stand up to a mod like that...

:salute:
like I was saying, Foxworth IS a starter and we shouldn't have gave him away for a 7th rounder. We should've let him stink with us last season...then release Bly, then re-sign Foxworth for Andre Goodman-type money and promise him the starter spot opposite Champ.

But what do I know...I'm just a fan :lol:

[Simple Jaded]

Foxworth is a huge waste of 28 million dollars.......

[getlynched47]

Foxworth is a huge waste of 28 million dollars.......

i swear...that has to be Stnzed. Is that u???

[TXBRONC]

damn man :eek:...i've never seen somebody so badass that they stand up to a mod like that...

:salute:
like I was saying, Foxworth IS a starter and we shouldn't have gave him away for a 7th rounder. We should've let him stink with us last season...then release Bly, then re-sign Foxworth for Andre Goodman-type money and promise him the starter spot opposite Champ.

But what do I know...I'm just a fan :lol:

I would have liked seen him stay but with the signing of Bly it wasn't going to happen. As far only getting a 7th rounder that probably had a lot do with his contract situation.

[Lonestar]

yes it did and frankly foxworth is nothing special.. might have been an adequate CB for us in a couple of years with a DL we are about to get.. So mikey was smart enough to get something for him..

Was wondering if someone would bite on that comment..

If you consider getting a 7th for a decent but nothing special 3RD
round DAFT choice yeah I guess it was smart..:laugh::laugh:


he was not a starter other than in some folks mini minds..

Guess you needed the total context of the comment I made about him NOT being a starter.. sorry I guess I expected more for some of Y'all

[Lonestar]

Was wondering if someone would bite on that comment..

If you consider getting a 7th for a decent but nothing special 3RD round DAFT choice yeah I guess it was smart..:laugh::laugh:


Yes he was/is. The only reason he didnt start when he was with the Broncos was because that would mean that Bly would get benched. And Shanahan did not want to bench Bly with the money he was making because that would make both of them look bad. Foxworth could have EASILY beat Dre Bly out to start opposite Champ Bailey. If Shanahan would've let Foxworth start (BTW he out performed Bly in training camp...i was there) then that would basically admit another bad offseason acquisition.

Foxworth is a starter. He was excellent for the Falcons and will be one of the top young corners in the game like Revis for NYJ....book it.

wish in one hand crap in the other......

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Foxworth is a starter in the league, especially in a scheme that allows him to play in man coverage where he excels, instead of in ten off-yard zone where it's easily apparent that passes can be and will be made in front of him. He was sought after by many teams in free agency. I think that tells you something about his abilities. Poor defensive schematics and coverage schemes were used the past several years. I expect Foxworth to do much better with a great front seven and a defensive coach who has a clue. Good luck to him.

[getlynched47]

Guess you needed the total context of the comment I made about him NOT being a starter.. sorry I guess I expected more for some of Y'all

The Falcons and Ravens believed that Foxworth was/is a starter...and they have pretty good defenses. I'll believe them before I believe your ridiculous, ignorant comments about Foxworth :coffee:

[Lonestar]

Foxworth is a starter in the league, especially in a scheme that allows him to play in man coverage where he excels, instead of in ten off-yard zone where it's easily apparent that passes can be and will be made in front of him. He was sought after by many teams in free agency. I think that tells you something about his abilities. Poor defensive schematics and coverage schemes were used the past several years. I expect Foxworth to do much better with a great front seven and a defensive coach who has a clue. Good luck to him.

I hope for his sake he is a decent CB, but from what I saw of him in Den I'll not hold my breath..

I suggest he banks his signing bonus cause I suspect he will need it down the line..

[Lonestar]

The Falcons and Ravens believed that Foxworth was/is a starter...and they have pretty good defenses. I'll believe them before I believe your ridiculous, ignorant comments about Foxworth :coffee:

Why did mikey let him go for 7th rounder?..


If he were so special and a "Starter" in ATL why did they let him go?

your Manlove is showing..

[getlynched47]

Why did mikey let him go for 7th rounder?..


If he were so special and a "Starter" in ATL why did they let him go?

your Manlove is showing..

That's all anybody would give up for him because they could just sign him the next offseason with Bly and Bailey set at corner. Atlanta tried to re-sign him...but Baltimore offered more money.

Any more questions? :lol:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I hope for his sake he is a decent CB, but from what I saw of him in Den I'll not hold my breath..

I suggest he banks his signing bonus cause I suspect he will need it down the line..

Like I said, Foxworth is a guy who excels in man coverage schemes. When you don't have a pass rush and are asked to play in off-zone, you are going to get beat underneath. As is Karl Paymah, but he never got that opportunity either. Which is why teams like Baltimore (who realize his strengths and will allow him to play to them) are going after him. PFT is calling it the "Paymah Rent Tour" -- I thought it was clever.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Why did mikey let him go for 7th rounder?..


If he were so special and a "Starter" in ATL why did they let him go?

your Manlove is showing..

Investing 28 million dollars into a corner back and having to give up a higher pick are two of the logical, and probably true reasons for it. Having confidence in Chris Houston, a second-rounder from 2007 and Chevis Jackson, who was a third-rounder last year probably has something to do with it. Just a hunch. They have a lot of potential there that the coaches have spoken about. Why overpay on the market (which is what is happening) if you're happy with who you have?

[Lonestar]

That's all anybody would give up for him because they could just sign him the next offseason with Bly and Bailey set at corner. Atlanta tried to re-sign him...but Baltimore offered more money.

Any more questions? :lol:

lets see bly at 5 mil, moron at 300k and a cheap extension and mikey trades him for a 7th.. yeah that makes sense..........


As I said your man love is showing...

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Reality showed in my posts though.

[bullis26]

when foxworth was here he either A) Was a very young corner or B) had such a bad line no CB could be good.....the ravens have had a dominant D since the start of the season if foxworth is good enough for them he's good enough for any team

[skycoyote]

Anybody know what college McD graduated from? Articles say he "attended John Carroll University", key word ATTENDED. I can't find where he graduated from, help.

[CoachChaz]

Who cares

[skycoyote]

Who cares

I do.

[getlynched47]

lets see bly at 5 mil, moron at 300k and a cheap extension and mikey trades him for a 7th.. yeah that makes sense..........


As I said your man love is showing...

Foxworth WOULD NOT sign an extension with us unless he was allowed to compete to start...and with Dre Bly and his massive contract..there was no chance of that. :rolleyes:

Next?