Broncos Free Agency Splashes?

[WARHORSE]

Theres some big name free agaents out there this year. We wont get a shot at most.

We have a lot of salary cap room and therefore will be in the market for some players. Thing is, what should we be looking at first?


Some players that bring interesting thoughts are as follows:

Mario Williams. Most people will think franchise tag for this guy. But he was already being paid a top notch salary, and a tag would cost a ton of money.

The Texans defense though, did great without him.

They also have Arian Foster on the cuff.

Would Mario Williams help Denver? Thats a big splash for us to make, and not without risk of course.
But Williams would bring not only huge talent to us, but also huge versatility.
With Miller, Doom and Williams who stood up this year and brought a sack a game before he went down, the Broncos defense would be unbelievably skilled AND versatile. Move Champ Bailey to safety, and with this pass rush the crazily skilled corner may just eat opponents alive. His instincts and ability will allow him to play extremely fast, in spite of his age. And we all know he has hands.

Cliff Avril brings the same thing. Though he may not have played at OLB like Williams, he can move to the interior Dline and still kill it.





IF the Broncos decided to make a big splash in FAgency.....these are two guys I think would be on their radar.

Anyone got any other thoughts?

[BeefStew25]

Nope nope nope.

Build from the draft, find value in free agency.

Willis McGahee was value.

Find another couple of those dudes.

[Ziggy]

Avril is DE War.

I was hoping that Mario would have a bad season and want to go sign with a team that runs a 4-3 for a decent salary. He didn't, and will command a huge price. Ayers is coming along well. Williams would be a luxury, not a necessity.

[Ziggy]

Nope nope nope.

Build from the draft, find value in free agency.

Willis McGahee was value.

Find another couple of those dudes.

People forget how teams like the Pats, Steelers, Niners, Ravens, and Packers were built. The best thing about Elway coming in was that he says he's committed to building through the draft. Gotta love it.

[BeefStew25]

I say this every spring, men, but I am going to say it again:

They are free agents for a reason. Think about that for a bit.

Or, think about Chris Harris' contribution to our team vs what Dale Carter contributed.

[MileHighCrew]

I agree build through the draft, but even the though of signing Mario makes me smile

[BeefStew25]

I agree build through the draft, but even the though of signing Mario makes me smile

I would rather work on getting the Giants Dline depth.

[NightTerror218]

I say add a CB, OL depth via FA. Get BPA in draft who will be difference makers.

[SR]

Build through the draft and supplement with FA.

[Jsteve01]

This year's model was ideal. Sign quality depth at a position of need. Trade third day pick for the best 4-3 tackle in the game vs the run and draft athletes at every position.

[topscribe]

I'm not into this either/or thing. If a FA is an upgrade to what the team has,
then by all means consider him. An upgrade means getting better, if you don't
mind my playing Captain Obvious. Do the best you can in the draft, of course,
but don't neglect the other . . .

[Lancane]

I'm not into this either/or thing. If a FA is an upgrade to what the team has,
then by all means consider him. An upgrade means getting better, if you don't
mind my playing Captain Obvious. Do the best you can in the draft, of course,
but don't neglect the other . . .

Quoted for the absolute truth of it!

And this is the last year the owners can be scrooges, so they might as well get use to spending 99% of the cap. We have six draft picks, which is not enough to build much of anything. I hope Denver trades down and adds some more picks in the second round, but that still leaves variables. Denver can ill-afford to ignore free agency for the draft, even New England understands this now, it's rare for a team to be built completely from the draft and it takes years to do so, which reflects on the current regime more then it does the previous at this point. I fully expect Denver to add some talent in free agency, maybe not of the Vincent Jackson type quality, but still of some worth all of which improves the team overall.

[chazoe60]

The elite teams build through the draft, but at the same time if a guy can help bring him in. The problem comes when teams just throw money at guys simply because they're the big name FAs. You need to make sure a FA is fit for your particular team and LR.

If we can have another draft like we had last year I'd be happy. Last year we got 1 probowler(Von), 1 long term starter(Franklin), 1 starter with potential(Carter), and some developmental guys and that's not even counting an UFA who IMO will be our Nickel for many years to come(Harris). That's pretty good numbers folks, and history shows that a good number of draft picks don't show their value for at least two years.

Giys like Mohammed, Green, Julius Thomas, Irvin, and Rahim Moore could very well end up as legit starters for us in the future.

[spikerman]

It's time to focus on the interior of the DL. The Broncos have good edge rushers, what they don't have is anyone who can put pressure in the QB's face. That's why you get teams with decent QBs throwing the ball all over the field on them despite having Dumervil and Miller coming from the outside. Mario Williams would not fill a need.

I agree with everyone else who says to build through the draft and add value here and there through free agency.

[Lancane]

The elite teams build through the draft, but at the same time if a guy can help bring him in. The problem comes when teams just throw money at guys simply because they're the big name FAs. You need to make sure a FA is fit for your particular team and LR.

If we can have another draft like we had last year I'd be happy. Last year we got 1 probowler(Von), 1 long term starter(Franklin), 1 starter with potential(Carter), and some developmental guys and that's not even counting an UFA who IMO will be our Nickel for many years to come(Harris). That's pretty good numbers folks, and history shows that a good number of draft picks don't show their value for at least two years.

Giys like Mohammed, Green, Julius Thomas, Irvin, and Rahim Moore could very well end up as legit starters for us in the future.

True, but there are a lot of young guys in free agency that are better suited elsewhere or were backups to better starters who are still learning and developing. Ed McCaffrey, Gary Zimmerman, Mark Schlereth, Alfred Williams, Neil Smith, Brian Habib, Bill Romanowski, Darrien Gordon, Keith Traylor...where would be without the efforts of those men?

[chazoe60]

True, but there are a lot of young guys in free agency that are better suited elsewhere or were backups to better starters who are still learning and developing. Ed McCaffrey, Gary Zimmerman, Mark Schlereth, Alfred Williams, Neil Smith, Brian Habib, Bill Romanowski, Darrien Gordon, Keith Traylor...where would be without the efforts of those men?

Exactly. But as I said, the reason those guys worked was because they were great fits for the team. We've also seen plenty of dud FAs as well. It's more about fit than anything else IMO.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

By position:

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2012QB.php

[WARHORSE]

Avril is DE War.

I was hoping that Mario would have a bad season and want to go sign with a team that runs a 4-3 for a decent salary. He didn't, and will command a huge price. Ayers is coming along well. Williams would be a luxury, not a necessity.


Yeah I know. He can play opposite Doom while Ayers can move inside.

Both of those guys can do both on pass downs especially. Thats where the versatility comes in. The rotation would be extremely good imo.

Ayers and Doom will have to come out at certain times in the game. Avril will win a starting spot, and either Ayers or Doom will come in. Remember, Doom stood up when we went 3-4. Not saying he would be a mainstay, he definitely would not.

But with Ayers coming on, you have Ayers, Doom, Miller and Avril all being able to shift around. Miller would not play in the middle unless he was stood up, but there is a ton of versatility in a group that talented.

It would also allow the depth of our rotation to be a lot better.

[G_Money]

I am a proponent of filling through the draft...

but you can't JUST draft and hope to fill all your holes. Not unless you're the Colts of a couple years ago, anyway, and that fell apart swiftly didn't it?

Teams have a 25-35% turnover every year, even good teams. You get 7 draft picks, give or take, and a handful of UDFAs.

You'd have to hit on every one to staff your roster and make up for the guys leaving. Free agents matter too.

Do they have to be the highest-priced guys on the market? No.

But you'd BETTER add some vets to go with all the kids you hope make it, to offset your Richard Quinns and Rahim Moores where you blew an early pick on a player who can't see the field unless the position is decimated by injury.

It's easier to fill your needs via the draft when you have a system to draft them into. We did well at making our OL work with late-round draftees under Shanahan because we could effectively make use of what other teams couldn't.

We don't have that kind of system now, so we need to locate real talent to improve our lot at most positions. So we're gonna need some free agents, and some talented players who fall or are overlooked as tweeners that we can make work for us.

The Broncos added 3 starters in the 2011 draft (Miller, Franklin, Carter) and another as a UDFA (my boy Harris). But we drafted 2 TEs and still need a competent one, 2 safeties and need another, a MLB but are likely still in the market...

You can have a good draft and still be losing ground. Free agency matters. In depth, in rotational players, and in surprisingly effective starters, the 2nd tier of free agency can be the lifeblood of improving our potential for the coming year.

I hope we're willing to jump into it. I don't need a big splash, but several smaller ones could yield big-time rewards. Last year we could have helped ourselves a LOT but thought the price was too high. With next year's schedule and challenges, we'd better improve our talent significantly or we'll find out what the price of losing is.

~G

[WARHORSE]

In case you guys forgot............the rookie pool is in place.

Teams will still be able to build through the draft because a first round pick isnt going to cost you an arm and a leg.


Why are we not building through the draft if we sign a player?

Building through the draft means DRAFT GOOD PLAYERS taking the BPA .....OR.....as I like the Broncos strategy last year.......draft a guy who can come in and start. We did a great job of that I thought last year for the most part.

Ayers is a player ready to show whether he was a mistake or not.


Building through the draft doesnt mean we cant be a player in the FA market.

I am NOT saying sign a guy we have to give up picks for....the answer to that would be a resounding NO, because then youre giving away the even more valuable draft picks today that are necessary to build through the draft.

[NightTerror218]

Lardarius Webb, Brent Grimes
Carl Nicks
Jason Jones

That is my wish list for FA

[G_Money]

As far as splashes go, though...

If the Falcons go to a 3-4 in the next year or two and don't want to invest in one of their very good players, I'd love to kick the tires on Curtis Lofton. He would instantly shore up the middle and give us the leader we're missing if Dawkins is gone.

~G

[Ziggy]

True, but there are a lot of young guys in free agency that are better suited elsewhere or were backups to better starters who are still learning and developing. Ed McCaffrey, Gary Zimmerman, Mark Schlereth, Alfred Williams, Neil Smith, Brian Habib, Bill Romanowski, Darrien Gordon, Keith Traylor...where would be without the efforts of those men?

Lan, that was a different era. Free agency had just begun and Shanahan was miles ahead of the rest of the NFL. He had little to no competition on most of those playerss. It's a whole different ball game now.

.....and I can't believe you didn't put Howard Griffith in there Lan. You're slipping!:D

[tomjonesrocks]

I'm not into this either/or thing. If a FA is an upgrade to what the team has,
then by all means consider him. An upgrade means getting better, if you don't
mind my playing Captain Obvious. Do the best you can in the draft, of course,
but don't neglect the other . . .


Quoted for the absolute truth of it!

And this is the last year the owners can be scrooges, so they might as well get use to spending 99% of the cap. We have six draft picks, which is not enough to build much of anything. I hope Denver trades down and adds some more picks in the second round, but that still leaves variables. Denver can ill-afford to ignore free agency for the draft, even New England understands this now, it's rare for a team to be built completely from the draft and it takes years to do so, which reflects on the current regime more then it does the previous at this point. I fully expect Denver to add some talent in free agency, maybe not of the Vincent Jackson type quality, but still of some worth all of which improves the team overall.

Agree fully with both of these. I know what the team will do though--and that's not spend money.

Dumervil got paid here but not before he was on national radio (Jim Rome, etc.) wondering why his contract wasn't moving forward for a number of weeks--enough time for media and league-wide speculation where else he might land. Will he go to Dallas? Washington? New York? It sucked--everyone thought Denver was going to act like the cheap-asses they've become and not pay him.

Bailey's extension got yanked off the table and most likely only got put back on after McD's firing because fan disgust of the Broncos at that time was rightfully at an all-time historical high. The team simply could not afford more backlash and simply had to hold their nose and pay. I still consider it an utter, complete miracle he's still in Orange and Blue and it's only to his credit--I can't think of another player of his stature that would have put up with that BS and come back to a team that was at the league-bottom in talent in the twilight in his career. I still don't get it. Talk about an outlier.

They did give 8 mil to Orton though I suppose...nicely done. :lol:

So before I get my hopes up AGAIN that the likes of a DeAngelo Williams-caliber FA might sign here...regardless of the personal connections or sense it might make for the organization, I have to start with :tsk:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

If we're only really going to spend a decent amount on one position, I'd go for a starting caliber CB.

With the emergence of Harris and the age of Champ and Goodman behind which is little depth, I think CB is rapidly emerging as a top priority for our defense. If Harris can continue to develop and maybe move outside and we can bring in another starter (like Brent Grimes or Tracy Porter) I think it would be fantastic for Champ to move out to FS with Carter taking Dawkins' spot as SS.

Champ could be a real force playing center field and could really QB the defense from a position where he can see the whole field pre-snap.

I think we should target a starting caliber FA CB and a MLB (like Connor from Carolina who they probably won't re-sign because of Beason).

Go after offense in the draft (C, G or T, RB, WR) and bring in some younger vets to solidify the defense. That's what I'd do...

[BeefStew25]

I fear white LB's that went to school in the Big Ten. Anyone else besides Conner?

[Canmore]

True, but there are a lot of young guys in free agency that are better suited elsewhere or were backups to better starters who are still learning and developing. Ed McCaffrey, Gary Zimmerman, Mark Schlereth, Alfred Williams, Neil Smith, Brian Habib, Bill Romanowski, Darrien Gordon, Keith Traylor...where would be without the efforts of those men?

Zimmerman was a Dan Reeves trade for a first round pick from Minnesota. :D

[VonSackemMiller]

how do you build through the draft when you have a coach thats notknown to develope alot of talent? A coach that loves to lean on veterans. Smh. At this point I have no clue what thus off season will be like. When does free agency start though?

[VonSackemMiller]

Yeah I know. He can play opposite Doom while Ayers can move inside.

Both of those guys can do both on pass downs especially. Thats where the versatility comes in. The rotation would be extremely good imo.

Ayers and Doom will have to come out at certain times in the game. Avril will win a starting spot, and either Ayers or Doom will come in. Remember, Doom stood up when we went 3-4. Not saying he would be a mainstay, he definitely would not.

But with Ayers coming on, you have Ayers, Doom, Miller and Avril all being able to shift around. Miller would not play in the middle unless he was stood up, but there is a ton of versatility in a group that talented.

It would also allow the depth of our rotation to be a lot better.

Your just twisting up the whole front 7 huh? Ayers finally coming into his own as a de and you wanna kick him in to dt? Smh thats how u never develope talent

[WARHORSE]

Your just twisting up the whole front 7 huh? Ayers finally coming into his own as a de and you wanna kick him in to dt? Smh thats how u never develope talent


SMH is right. Dont you watch the line play in Denver? Ayers already plays inside alot. There were many scouts who penciled him in as a future DT once he had three years in the league. His year at LBer was a year wasted in his development as a DL.

Key word is versatility. Im not talking about a full time swing. Heck, if it comes to first down, Id play Ayers and Avril at DE before Doom.

But not only does it bode well for resting one of these guys on long opponents drives, but in obvious passing situations Doom and Avril at DE, with Ayers in the middle and Von coming from anywhere is going to give the best offenses problems, especially if they dont know whos coming. Not like we cant blitz other LBers, etc.

Miller will be fully healed next year and I dont have any doubt no offensive lineman can go one on one with him without getting QB pasted numerous times.

Doom a year from his injury and Ayers another year better....I like what I see if we invest in another really good DL.

[bcbronc]

how do you build through the draft when you have a coach thats notknown to develope alot of talent? A coach that loves to lean on veterans. Smh. At this point I have no clue what thus off season will be like. When does free agency start though?

Ya, I was really pee'd off that Fox didn't start a single rookie this year. Oh wait...

imo it's a pretty slim chance that Super Mario hits UFA status. And if he does, he'd be one of the most sought after free agents available. I'm pretty sure we can take the top 2, sometimes 3 UFA names at each position off our wish list. We're not going to outbid anyone for a top UFA, nor should we at this point in our cycle.

Our top priority in free agency has to be the defensive secondary imo. For the most part, it's old and shallow. We need to find a new Goodman, a solid veteran #2, to replace Goodman. I expect it will be someone who is under the radar a little bit. It would also be nice to draft a future #1 CB.

We'll also need a veteran safety, assuming Dawkins retires. Even if Champ moves over, he'll be playing a new position. Need a veteran teacher in the mix somewhere.

I'd also like to see a good cover nickel LB added, and Woodyard set adrift. imo part of the reason our nickel got shredded was because having Doom, Von and WW as half the front 6 makes us too small. Well, pretty easy decision, and upgrading Woodyard wouldn't be a bank breaking signing.

Other than that, a MLB depending on how EFX feels about Irving, an interior OL depending on how EFX feels on the line, and a savvy veteran WR. That would be my shopping list. The rest I hope to upgrade through the draft or internal development.

Oh, and a veteran QB, whether Quinn or otherwise, has to be brought in.

[D1g1tal j1m]

Nope nope nope.

Build from the draft, find value in free agency.

Willis McGahee was value.

Find another couple of those dudes.

This is the ideal, but you must combine some solid FA's that can help the draft picks have time to develop (the draft picks should add depth with the vision that they will be starters in the future). I am not opposed to signing an impact FA as long as they fill a need along with building in the draft.

[DenBronx]

Each year I hope we make a splash in free agency and we never do.


This year I will not hope for it or expect it. Then maybe they will actually sign someone.

[DenBronx]

Ok ok ok ok I give....


I really want us to sign SS Tyvon Branch and CB LeDarius Webb. If not Webb then Cortland Finnegan. BANG! Instantly a much better secondary. That move alone would never allow the blowouts we experienced last year. Webb and Branch are great in coverage.

If Eddie Royal leaves then why not make a move for DeSean Jackson? Shores up our return position plus is a deap threat for Tebow and that's what he's best at in the passing game. I would feel much better with Thomas/Jackson and Decker in the slot.


Resign Bunkley, Thomas, Fells and Prater. Target any decent pass catching TE in FA.


I think that blueprint wins us the division again and helps us do better in the playoffs.

Draft Vontaze Burfict in the 1st and another RB in round 2 or 3.

[Traveler]

Zimmerman was a Dan Reeves trade for a first round pick from Minnesota. :D

Slight correction Canmore. Zimmerman was actually a Wade Phillips trade. One of the few good things Wade did here.

Reeves got fired in 1992 and Phillips was hired. He brought Zim here in 1993 for 1st & 6th round picks in 94 plus Doug Widell and Vance Johnson IIRC.

[SOCALORADO.]

Why cant DEN do both? Just cause a player is a UFA doesnt mean he sucks by any means. And most good teams do both anyways. Of course DEN should draft well, but if a UFA can help this team, then get him.
And DEN needs the help.
Heres my "wish" list. (Obviously not ALL of these guys will be signed, and obviously injuries could play a part in a player being signed.)
FS Dashon Goldson (SF)
CB Terrell Thomas (NYG) Aaron Ross (NYG)
MLB Dan Connor (CAR) E.J. Henderson (MIN)
OG Carl Nicks (NO)
WR Vincent Jackson (SD) Marques Colston (NO)
TE John Carlson (SEA)

[CoachChaz]

FA is a necessary evil. I dont think anyone outside of Dan Snyder believes you can win based solely on FA, but if we want to compete...it has to be considered strongly. 6 draft picks and some UDFA's arent going to get us much closer to being a contender unless the holes are filled with some FA talent

[Lancane]

Slight correction Canmore. Zimmerman was actually a Wade Phillips trade.
One of the few good things Wade did here.

Reeves got fired in 1992 and Phillips was hired. He broought Zim here in 1993for 1st & 6th round picks in 94 plus Doug Widell and Vance Johnson IIRC.

Doesn't really matter whether a player was acquired by trade or through free agency, fact remains that players (not drafted by an organization) can still benefit from those veteran additions. That was the point of my post, look at Champ Bailey, I remember a lot of fans griped that we were trading Portis for Bailey and that we should build through the draft. Now what would the Broncos be without him, he's as iconic to the Broncos as Shannon Sharpe was.

Good Catch though Trav, a lot of people forget what Philips did here, including drafting Tom Nalen.

As for who I'd like to see brought in from Free Agency -

Jake Delhomme (HOU) not that he'll compete, but a whole camp of him passing on knowledge he's attained in John Fox's former system, and the West Coast from Kubiak and Schaub could do wonders for the younger quarterbacks - maybe even just as a third stringer throughout the season would help.

Dan Connor (CAR) I like this cat, he's a tough nosed, blue collar linebacker who knows how to lead a defense which he proved in Carolina, he's Beasons backup but could start almost anywhere else, he'd be a big improvement over Mays.

Michael Bush (OAK) he's not a primary tailback, but in rotation and relief, even third downs he could do wonders for Denver's running back stable. And I think Bush has a lot to prove to people who think he's done in this league, throw in a rookie along with McGahee, we'll have a solid backfield.

Robert Meachem (NO) chances are high that Royal is not returning to Denver, while Meachem has not lived up to his potential in New Orleans, he has tremendous natural ability and pretty good skill set, throw him into the mix with Thomas, Decker and Willis and I see him becoming a solid number two who can help stretch the field opening up the pass offense with the others in receiving corps.

William Middleton (JAC) I would love to see Denver go after Carr or Finnegan, but chances are slim that they'll open up the checkbook that wide until forced next year. Middleton is a young backup corner who showed promise in relief and has a ton of upside. Throwing him into the mix with a mentor like Bailey could make him a steal for Denver and open up the draft more for Denver to target the BPA instead of focusing on needs.

[Joel]

There are two big issues with selling out on the draft:

1) Some positions almost invariably require a few years of in game and practice field experience before a rookie player is ready. Acquiring such players exclusively through the draft means giving up on the next two years.

2) Most rookie players benefit greatly from the presence of elite veterans at their position, from whom they can acquire techniques and habits few others can teach them. A team full of rookies has few if any such mentors.

The best tackles tend to come from schools that require a level of play not far below the NFL; rookies like that are frequently ready to go right out of the gate, though they usually get better with time. Running backs are usually "good enough;" they can make cuts, find holes and run in the open field, but sometimes need receiving, and often pass BLOCKING, experience.

Wide receivers often, TEs usually and QBs nearly ALWAYS shine only after a year or two developing skills to match their innate talent. You can still draft them IF you don't expect much soon; Julio Joneses, Rob Gronkowskis and Andy Daltons exist, but are exceptions to the rule. Elite guards are often pro ready in the draft, but if that were the norm we would not still be talking about "developing" Beadles and Walton after 34 pro starts.

On offense, I would look there in FA, particularly for WRs and Gs, where our multiple young starters could learn much from a HoF vet whose own ability we could use immediately. In addition to direct tutelage, sharing practice and game fields with the best, watching how they move and act each week, would greatly benefit our rookies development. Cheap FAs hurt us there; we don't want our rookies learning a mediocre standard.

The same basic principle applies to defense, except we already have an elite CB, so I want a FA shutdown CB mainly because we have almost nothing BUT Champ: We need an immediate producer to prevent more 5 TD playoff losses, and so we can move Champ to FS and fill another gaping hole now that he's slowing. Chris Harris has impressed me enough I think replacing Goodman with him, moving Champ to FS and signing a solid FA CB to take his old spot would improve 3/4 secondary positions with the addition of one player. In terms of FA value, that's hard to beat (for one thing, we'd no longer be paying Goodman.)

Otherwise, again, the same principle as on offense. Defensive ends rarely need much seasoning, and DTs less, so drafting works quickly. 4-3 Sams are usually pro ready (e.g. Miller) and we only want depth unless Miller regresses badly. Mikes and Wills take more time, but DJ and Woodyard have us in good shape on the latter; FA is, however, a great place to find a defensive QB, especially if we think Irving just needs experience.

What I'd like in FA are a standout G/T, MLB and #1/2 WR. If a legit shutdown CB is unavailable at our draft spot, that's added to the list also. A FA vet QB should go without saying because if anything happens to Tebow right now we basically have NOTHING (Quinn's not even under contract for next year, so we'd be looking at Adam Weber or no one.) I'd like one who entered the League with similar strengths and limitations but developed legitimate pocket passing ability, so we retain full access to a playbook written for Tebow and he can have the benefit of experience from someone who's been where he is and got where he needs to go.

[rcsodak]

It's time to focus on the interior of the DL. The Broncos have good edge rushers, what they don't have is anyone who can put pressure in the QB's face. That's why you get teams with decent QBs throwing the ball all over the field on them despite having Dumervil and Miller coming from the outside. Mario Williams would not fill a need.

I agree with everyone else who says to build through the draft and add value here and there through free agency.
See what VWilfork did vs Balti?! He won that game for NE.

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[SOCALORADO.]

See what VWilfork did vs Balti?! He won that game for NE.

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That need can be addressed in the draft.
http://www.4malamute.com/images/alameda.jpg

[rcsodak]

Lol. I love how people are calling champ "slow", or "slowing down".
I imagine he's still got the jets of half the cb's out there. Plus, the skills of only a handful.

He said he'd know when the time was to make the move....hows about we listen to him.

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[arapaho2]

I say this every spring, men, but I am going to say it again:

They are free agents for a reason. Think about that for a bit.

Or, think about Chris Harris' contribution to our team vs what Dale Carter contributed.


drew brees was a free agent

darren sproles

micheal turner

dawkins

jonathon joseph


just because we got burned on carter and many others doesnt mean you shouldnt try to get a impact player...there are many reasons players are allowed to become free agents

[spikerman]

See what VWilfork did vs Balti?! He won that game for NE.

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Exactly, but for some reason over the years no matter who is occupying the front office, the DT position is basically ignored and filled with 2nd tier (at best) players. Maybe Pat Bowlen doesn't believe in paying DT's. He's been the only constant over the years.

[topscribe]

Two FAs I would love to see in Broncos uniforms are Jason Jones, who would
add to the inside pass rush, and Dan Connor, who would be an immediate
upgrade at MLB, IMO . . .

[Lancane]

Two FAs I would love to see in Broncos uniforms are Jason Jones, who would
add to the inside pass rush and Dan Connor, who would be an immediate
upgrade at MLB, IMO . . .

You had me at Dan Connor! ;)

:lol:

We need to upgrade in the middle and Connor would be just that a big upgrade, and I would like to see Jones come here as well, but I won't get my hopes up.

[topscribe]

You had me at Dan Connor! ;)

:lol:

We need to upgrade in the middle and Connor would be just that a big upgrade, and I would like to see Jones come here as well, but I won't get my hopes up.

You never know. These guys probably could be had relatively reasonably,
likely less than a draft choice coming in, and they are seasoned -- they already
know what they're doing. And the Broncos still have their draft choices for
other remedies.

Another possible steal could be CB Terrell Thomas from the Giants. He might
be somewhat of a physical risk, coming off a torn ACL, but that might be a
reason he would come cheaper than his talent would otherwise dictate. If he
is, then such an acquisition might clear Champ for a move to safety?

[SOCALORADO.]

You never know. These guys probably could be had relatively reasonably,
likely less than a draft choice coming in, and they are seasoned -- they already
know what they're doing. And the Broncos still have their draft choices for
other remedies.

Another possible steal could be CB Terrell Thomas from the Giants. He might
be somewhat of a physical risk, coming off a torn ACL, but that might be a
reason he would come cheaper than his talent would otherwise dictate. If he
is, then such an acquisition might clear Champ for a move to safety?

A healthy Thomas would be huge. Or even Aaron Ross.
Connor would shore up the crap at MLB and can "QB" Foxs defense.
And considering that Allen is all but basically gone to chokeland, DEN needs
a Fox MLB now more than ever.

[topscribe]

A healthy Thomas would be huge. Or even Aaron Ross.
Connor would shore up the crap at MLB and can "QB" Foxs defense.
And considering that Allen is all but basically gone to chokeland, DEN needs
a Fox MLB now more than ever.

Another FA I might go after would be Mike Tolbert. The Broncos seem to want
another bruiser to complement McGahee, and Tolbert is definitely that -- and
Tolbert has something McGahee doesn't: youth.

[arapaho2]

Another FA I might go after would be Mike Tolbert. The Broncos seem to want
another bruiser to complement McGahee, and Tolbert is definitely that -- and
Tolbert has something McGahee doesn't: youth.


WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS ^^^^

you get down to the goal line...tolbert scores

get a speedy one cut back to carry the load, and tolbert to finish it


nice

[topscribe]

WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS ^^^^

you get down to the goal line...tolbert scores

get a speedy one cut back to carry the load, and tolbert to finish it


nice

You know, I haven't seen too much talk about it, and I'm not certain as to the
feasibility of it, but I have wondered whether the Broncos shouldn't be using
Eddie Royal as a McCluster/Sproles type of back. He's relatively small, very
quick, fast, and a terrific open field runner. Why not at least try -- if he is still
here, that is? I mean, can you imagine crushing the defense with Tolbert and
McGahee, then leaving them in the dust with Royal?

[dogfish]

i don't know that he'd be considered a splash, but a guy near the top of my list is RB benjarvus green-ellis. . . new england has woodhead in the faulk role, and just drafted ridley and vereen last year-- odds are decent they'll let law firm walk. . . he'd be a great addition to our stable-- durable, tough inside runner who never fumbles, polished in pass pro, and a solid locker room guy. . . bring him in to share the load with mcgahee, and look for a legit speed back in the draft. . .

[DenBronx]

i don't know that he'd be considered a splash, but a guy near the top of my list is RB benjarvus green-ellis. . . new england has woodhead in the faulk role, and just drafted ridley and vereen last year-- odds are decent they'll let law firm walk. . . he'd be a great addition to our stable-- durable, tough inside runner who never fumbles, polished in pass pro, and a solid locker room guy. . . bring him in to share the load with mcgahee, and look for a legit speed back in the draft. . .

Only way we get BGE and draft a rookie RB is if we actually trade Knowsho.

[dogfish]

Only way we get BGE and draft a rookie RB is if we actually trade Knowsho.

yep-- that was definitely part of my plan. . . i'd trade his worthless ass for literally anything i can get, and if not he needs to come in and beat somebody out for a spot. . .

it can happen. . . i doubt fox has much interest in keeping him-- what use is a fragile, slow third down back in a power running offense?


edit: it's not like somebody else can't catch the ten screens per year we run. . .

[DenBronx]

yep-- that was definitely part of my plan. . . i'd trade his worthless ass for literally anything i can get, and if not he needs to come in and beat somebody out for a spot. . .

it can happen. . . i doubt fox has much interest in keeping him-- what use is a fragile, slow third down back in a power running offense?


edit: it's not like somebody else can't catch the ten screens per year we run. . .

I could see NE wanting him for a 4th or 5th and Elway actually taking the deal.

[arapaho2]

rb is the only position i would not trade for


short shelf lives...draftes are loaded with them every yr

[SOCALORADO.]

Another FA I might go after would be Mike Tolbert. The Broncos seem to want
another bruiser to complement McGahee, and Tolbert is definitely that -- and
Tolbert has something McGahee doesn't: youth.

Yeah! I am in! Tolbert could carry the load for an entire year no problem if needed. RBs get injured all the time, and you all know how Fox loves to run the ball. I love it.

[NightTerror218]

Yeah! I am in! Tolbert could carry the load for an entire year no problem if needed. RBs get injured all the time, and you all know how Fox loves to run the ball. I love it.

A FB to look into would be Reese from oakland.

[LTC Pain]

I'd like to see the Broncos get a RB/FB, quality CB (anything better than Goodman!) and O-line depth from the FA pool. Then draft BPA in April.

[Lancane]

I'd like to see the Broncos get a RB/FB, quality CB (anything better than Goodman!) and O-line depth from the FA pool. Then draft BPA in April.

That's all fine and dandy LTC, but Denver is in a weakened state, we have a lot of our depth no longer under contract, not to mention we have starters no longer under contract either. Add in that we have to improve in a lot of areas and with the unorthodox football play we fielded this year some will be iffy to sign on - unless Fox and Elway can lull their interest. Denver will need to dip into the checkbook one way or another because the draft will fill few holes and would restrict the BPA approach.

LB/OL/DL/WR are all thin, we need to improve and add depth in those areas. And while improving at corner would be a huge plus, it should be the least of our worries at the moment.

[Nickademus]

I completely dissagree cb should be our top priority. Champ isn't getting any younger and goody was horrible this year.we are thin everywhere it seems but this to me is the most glaring hole.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Lancane]

I completely dissagree cb should be our top priority. Champ isn't getting any younger and goody was horrible this year.we are thin everywhere it seems but this to me is the most glaring hole.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

You can disagree all you want, but a priority is not where you have enough capable bodies, it's where you don't have enough or lack legit starters. If we had a solid defensive line which could pass rush then our cornerbacks would be fine for the most part. The very fact that both of our starting defensive tackles and their backups are free agents makes that area a priority, the same with the fact that our starting mike linebacker is a free agent as is most of our linebacker depth. And lets not forget that most of our offensive line depth, our third wideout and punt returner, starting place kicker and starting punter are likewise free agents. Those all trump the need for an upgrade at cornerback, period.

[DenBronx]

Dammit you dooshschnazles I said Tyvon Branch!!!!

[bcbronc]

You can disagree all you want, but a priority is not where you have enough capable bodies, it's where you don't have enough or lack legit starters. If we had a solid defensive line which could pass rush then our cornerbacks would be fine for the most part. The very fact that both of our starting defensive tackles and their backups are free agents makes that area a priority, the same with the fact that our starting mike linebacker is a free agent as is most of our linebacker depth. And lets not forget that most of our offensive line depth, our third wideout and punt returner, starting place kicker and starting punter are likewise free agents. Those all trump the need for an upgrade at cornerback, period.

I think when people are talking free agent priority they're not talking about re-signing your own UFAs, or even replacing them. I mean no one is going to say place kicker is a big need, but obviously you aren't going to start the season without one.

When you look at it as adding to the team, not just maintaining what we already have, I agree CB is a huge priority.

[Traveler]

More Mario Williams speculation....

Franchise tag prohibitive for Mario Williams

The franchise tag is not believed to be an option for the Texans in retaining free agent Mario Williams.

Williams earned $18 million in 2011. The mandatory franchise-tag raise would push his 2012 salary to a prohibitive $22.9 million, leaving Williams with quite a bit of leverage in contract talks. Williams' preference is to stay in Houston, but his agent surely realizes there's a good chance the best pass rusher on the market will break the bank in free agency.

The Chargers and Raiders are two of the many teams sure to be interested if Williams hits the open market.

Source: Houston Chronicle Jan 25 - 10:10 AM

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/226977/franchise-tag-prohibitive-for-mario-williams

[NightTerror218]

I will pass on Williams, we have Von.

[Traveler]

I will pass on Williams, we have Von.

Can never have enough pass rushers IMO. Especially ones other teams have to specifcally game plan for. See NYG.

[NightTerror218]

Can never have enough pass rushers IMO. Especially ones other teams have to specifcally game plan for. See NYG.

ya you can, when you have to sit either Willams or Von. Which one is the back up? Who is the going to be the priority to rush the passer?

[TXBRONC]

Avril is DE War.

I was hoping that Mario would have a bad season and want to go sign with a team that runs a 4-3 for a decent salary. He didn't, and will command a huge price. Ayers is coming along well. Williams would be a luxury, not a necessity.

Well he didn't have any kind of season he was on IR for most of it.

[Traveler]

ya you can, when you have to sit either Willams or Von. Which one is the back up? Who is the going to be the priority to rush the passer?

Neither. Elvis would be the most likely candidate to sit since he would only be used as a situational pass rusher. Love em' to death, but he is a liability agaisnst the run.

Look at the NYG. They have JPP, Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka. I want the Broncos to have the same ability to make teams pick their poison.

[NightTerror218]

Neither. Elvis would be the most likely candidate to sit since he would only be used as a situational pass rusher. Love em' to death, but he is a liability agaisnst the run.

Look at the NYG. They have JPP, Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka. I want the Broncos to have the same ability to make teams pick their poison.

I would say 42 tackles is good for a DL. Bunkley has 43. So i do think he was much better this year against the run, he is not situational anymore. HE was as a OLB in coverage. So you would sit our DE and have 2 OLBs? Does not make sense.

Kiwanuka is a LB. The rest are DL, 2 DE and 1 DT. Williams is a LB, Miller is a LB, why site the DE?

[SOCALORADO.]

Can never have enough pass rushers IMO. Especially ones other teams have to specifcally game plan for. See NYG.

No. DEN just cant afford to spend that kind of green to sit.
Pass rush is not the issue. Theres plenty of players on the outside, its the secondary and DT on defense.

[Rick]

I would have Ayers add a little more weight and move inside as a pass rushing DT and have Williams, Doom, Von bring the heat.

Worked in madden anyway... :)

[Ziggy]

Well he didn't have any kind of season he was on IR for most of it.

He had 5 sacks in 5 games. That was enough to show that he could be a dominant 3-4 OLB in the NFL.

[bcbronc]

I would say 42 tackles is good for a DL. Bunkley has 43. So i do think he was much better this year against the run, he is not situational anymore. HE was as a OLB in coverage. So you would sit our DE and have 2 OLBs? Does not make sense.

Kiwanuka is a LB. The rest are DL, 2 DE and 1 DT. Williams is a LB, Miller is a LB, why site the DE?

What? Not going to happen, but if Mario did end up here obviously he'd be moved back to DE.

[Traveler]

I would say 42 tackles is good for a DL. Bunkley has 43. So i do think he was much better this year against the run, he is not situational anymore. HE was as a OLB in coverage. So you would sit our DE and have 2 OLBs? Does not make sense.

Kiwanuka is a LB. The rest are DL, 2 DE and 1 DT. Williams is a LB, Miller is a LB, why site the DE?

Nowhere did I specifically mention only DE's. I said pass rushers. Hence the reference to the players I listed. As to Bunkley, he should definitely be the top priority signing from our own FA. Dude was our best interior lineman. Wish we could find a Wilfork type to play next to him.

[Traveler]

No. DEN just cant afford to spend that kind of green to sit.
Pass rush is not the issue. Theres plenty of players on the outside, its the secondary and DT on defense.

I agree that the interior must be addressed. What I don't agree with is the line of thought that we can't afford to spend kind of green to sit Dumervil. That basically what Nolan was doing with him when we played the 3-4.

As to Williams, if he were to become available, he'd the the one and only high dollar FA they should spent that type of money on. Kid is in his prime and can be dominant in both the run and passing situations. I'd set the terms of the contract in such a way the the major bonus would be tiered and the high dollar portion wouldn't kick in till 2013, when teams must spend a certain percentage to meet the cap floor. Provided he'd be willing to accept that type of deal. Bet SD and DAL won't hesistate to offer him top dollar. Why not us?

[SOCALORADO.]

I agree that the interior must be addressed. What I don't agree with is the line of thought that we can't afford to spend kind of green to sit Dumervil. That basically what Nolan was doing with him when we played the 3-4.

As to Williams, if he were to become available, he'd the the one and only high dollar FA they should spent that type of money on. Kid is in his prime and can be dominant in both the run and passing situations. I'd set the terms of the contract in such a way the the major bonus would be tiered and the high dollar portion wouldn't kick in till 2013, when teams must spend a certain percentage to meet the cap floor. Provided he'd be willing to accept that type of deal. Bet SD and DAL won't hesistate to offer him top dollar. Why not us?

Because DEN doesnt have a need at DE. Thats why.
And the "You can never have enough pass rushers" line is bull.
Its always used of all defensive players. DEN has plenty.
Address the other areas.

[Traveler]

Because DEN doesnt have a need at DE. Thats why.
And the "You can never have enough pass rushers" line is bull.
Its always used of all defensive players. DEN has plenty.
Address the other areas.

You can't be serious. If true, then explain why we never even sniffed Brady in our last game? If you think the line "You can never have enough pass rushers" is bull, so be it. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

We do need to address other areas, but you are dreaming if you think we don't have a need for more players than can rush the passer along the DLine.

All I'm trying to convey is that if there is a possibility to get Williams without having to give up any choices, we should go all out to do so.

[SOCALORADO.]

If true, then explain why we never even sniffed Brady in our last game? Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

We do need to address other areas, but you are dreaming if you think we don't have a need for more players than can rush the passer along the DLine.

All I'm trying to convey is that if there is a possibility to get Williams without having to give up any choices, we should go all out to do so.

So funny. i thought about Williams a bit more and without even reading your post came to the conclusion that if DEN did aquire him, it would be a good thing overall. HA! I dont know about throwing 60 million at him, but if they could get him, i wouldnt mind.

The pass rush would be lethal, there you are right. I will say that.
Coffee is an amazing concoction.

[SOCALORADO.]

So lets see....
DEN aquires
DE Mario Williams
MLB Dan Connor
FS Dashon Goldson

Then DEN drafts a DT in the top 2 rounds of the draft, say Alameda Ta'amu, NT/DT Wash or Fletcher Cox, DT, Mississippi State.

That would make for an evil defense, in 1 offseason.

[CoachChaz]

Why do we need Mario Williams? He is a luxury at this point. On a team with this many needs...we cant afford luxuries. Squash the idea and spend the money fixing other holes.

[Traveler]

Why do we need Mario Williams? He is a luxury at this point. On a team with this many needs...we cant afford luxuries. Squash the idea and spend the money fixing other holes.

While I disagree that the possibility of adding him would be a luxury, when you have the opportunity to add a really elite talent still in his prime, you go for it.

I want an awesome defense! I want a nasty defense. We are on the right track and need to keep adding the necessary pieces by all available avenues.

[Jsteve01]

While I disagree that the possibility of adding him would be a luxury, when you have the opportunity to add a really elite talent still in his prime, you go for it.

I want an awesome defense! I want a nasty defense. We are on the right track and need to keep adding the necessary pieces by all available avenues.

Im torn as to this one. Ayers play really started to pick up toward the end of the year. Im not at all saying he's in Williams' league but if his play continues to improve then maybe our dollars would be better spent elsewhere.

Need major help at corner Tackle and guard as well.

[Traveler]

Im torn as to this one. Ayers play really started to pick up toward the end of the year. Im not at all saying he's in Williams' league but if his play continues to improve then maybe our dollars would be better spent elsewhere.

Need major help at corner Tackle and guard as well.

Ayers did seem to get a little better this year. Maybe the light has finally come on for him. But look at his whole body of work including college. Rushing the passer was never his best attribute. Kid only had 9-10 sacks his entire college career. In two years with the Broncos, he has a total of 3.5 sacks if you don't include the playoffs. I will say his game against PIT was impressive. Maybe bulk him up more and try him at UT.

[SOCALORADO.]

Ayers did seem to get a little better this year. Maybe the light has finally come on for him. But look at his whole body of work including college. Rushing the passer was never his best attribute. Kid only had 9-10 sacks his entire college career. In two years with the Broncos, he has a total of 3.5 sacks if you don't include the playoffs. I will say his game against PIT was impressive. Maybe bulk him up more and try him at UT.

I like the UT idea with Ayers.
I think DEN should also aquire another UT/DT in the 1st 2 rounds as well.
The more i think about Williams, the more i like the idea. The way to beat the Bradys and Brees in todays NFL is to constantly harrass them. All the time, all game long.

[Traveler]

I like the UT idea with Ayers.
I think DEN should also aquire another UT/DT in the 1st 2 rounds as well.
The more i think about Williams, the more i like the idea. The way to beat the Bradys and Brees in todays NFL is to constantly harrass them. All the time, all game long.

Something we never accomplished in our last game. Read this in the DP this morning:


Fox wants speed and athleticism up front, and, after reviewing the season's video again, it's clear the Broncos offered too many quarterbacks the ability to slide forward in the pocket to avoid pressure from the edge.

That was especially true in the season-ending loss in New England, when Tom Brady consistently stepped forward to buy time and finished with six touchdown passes.

Read more: Better pass rush from middle of D-line should be a Broncos priority - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19829808#ixzz1kfoIhRnH

I think Ayers could be of help in this area. As to trying Ayers at UT, I only suggest it because he does seem to get into the backfield quite often. He just doesn't seem to have the speed or pass rush moves to close the deal. He wouldn't have to bulk up much since he around 280 at present.

Don't want to stunt the kid's growth by any means (see DJ) by trying him at so many different positions. Just see that he 's good at getting a push inside.

Keeping in check with reality, this scenario is all predicated on acquiring Willliams which in all likelihood won't happen.


I can definitely imagine a line with Williams, Bunkley, Ayers, and Dumervil along with Miller attacking opposing QB's on passing downs.

[SOCALORADO.]

Something we never accomplished in our last game. Read this in the DP this morning:



I think Ayers could be of help in this area. As to trying Ayers at UT, I only suggest it because he does seem to get into the backfield quite often. He just doesn't seem to have the speed or pass rush moves to close the deal. He wouldn't have to bulk up much since he around 280 at present.

Don't want to stunt the kid's growth by any means (see DJ) by trying him at so many different positions. Just see that he 's good at getting a push inside.

Keeping in check with reality, this scenario is all predicated on acquiring Willliams which in all likelihood won't happen.


I can definitely imagine a line with Williams, Bunkley, Ayers, and Dumervil along with Miller attacking opposing QB's.

NO! I just Text' EFX, and they all were totally down with Mario.
Elway didnt even know he was a UFA, and he already tweeted him an offer.
So its all good.

[Traveler]

NO! I just Text' EFX, and they all were totally down with Mario.
Elway didnt even know he was a UFA, and he already tweeted him an offer.
So its all good.

:salute:

Add the guys you suggested drafting/signing and the defense would be pretty sweet................on paper.:defense:

Damn! Think I've had too many cups of coffee this morning.:D

[CoachChaz]

While I disagree that the possibility of adding him would be a luxury, when you have the opportunity to add a really elite talent still in his prime, you go for it.

I want an awesome defense! I want a nasty defense. We are on the right track and need to keep adding the necessary pieces by all available avenues.

I guess my thinking is we could get 2 defensive starters for the cost of 1 guy to play a position we already have filled.

And assuming we did sign him, where do we put Ayers? Which side does Mario play? Can he or Doom adjust to the left side?

[NightTerror218]

I like the UT idea with Ayers.
I think DEN should also aquire another UT/DT in the 1st 2 rounds as well.
The more i think about Williams, the more i like the idea. The way to beat the Bradys and Brees in todays NFL is to constantly harrass them. All the time, all game long.

I dont know if he can do it. I think he is too small and wont be able to shed the blockers. He might be able to be a run stopper there with Bunkley but I think we would still have the problem of no penetration in the middle.

[SOCALORADO.]

I dont know if he can do it. I think he is too small and wont be able to shed the blockers. He might be able to be a run stopper there with Bunkley but I think we would still have the problem of no penetration in the middle.

Then like i said, we still need a DT in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft.
I wouldnt want to just chance it, and figure everything just works perfectly.

Whos the UT from LSU? Possibly a mid round pick as well.

[Traveler]

I guess my thinking is we could get 2 defensive starters for the cost of 1 guy to play a position we already have filled.

And assuming we did sign him, where do we put Ayers? Which side does Mario play? Can he or Doom adjust to the left side?

True, but Mario is a known quantity and a three down player. Dumervil doesn't make his presence felt in the run game.

And who's to say we can't get two starters from the draft? As for what to do with Dumervil and Ayers, I addressed that in an earlier post. There wouldn't be an adjustment for Elvis since they already move both he a Miller around anyway.

[Traveler]

Then like i said, we still need a DT in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft.
I wouldnt want to just chance it, and figure everything just works perfectly.

Whos the UT from LSU? Possibly a mid round pick as well.

I just wish there was a player available that can collapse the pocket the way Wilfork did against the Ravens. That was awesome to watch!

[NightTerror218]

Then like i said, we still need a DT in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft.
I wouldnt want to just chance it, and figure everything just works perfectly.

Whos the UT from LSU? Possibly a mid round pick as well.

Brockers i think you mean. He is going in the first round.

[SOCALORADO.]

Brockers i think you mean. He is going in the first round.

Dude. Everybodys goin in the 1st round! LOL!
Everyone! Gimme a break. Theres only 32 spots, man.
I highly doubt he goes in the 1st.

[NightTerror218]

Dude. Everybodys goin in the 1st round! LOL!
Everyone! Gimme a break. Theres only 32 spots, man.
I highly doubt he goes in the 1st.

He is considered the # 1 or 2 DT in draft. he is going first round.

[NightTerror218]

True, but Mario is a known quantity and a three down player. Demuevil doesn't make his presence felt in the run game.

And who's to say we can't get two starters from the draft? As for what to do with Dumervil and Ayers, I addressed that in an earlier post. There wouldn't be an adjustment for Elvis since they already move both he a Miller around anyway.

Doomer did so much better against the run this season, what are you talking about.

[SOCALORADO.]

He is considered the # 1 or 2 DT in draft. he is going first round.

Yeah, your right i just read that hes considered a 1st round talent.
He just recently declared so i have not kept up with his situation.
But that good for DEN!
Better shot at getting Still, Thompson, Cox, Ta'amu.
Be nice to see Brockers at DENs pick though.

[NightTerror218]

Yeah, your right i just read that hes considered a 1st round talent.
He just recently declared so i have not kept up with his situation.
But that good for DEN!
Better shot at getting Still, Thompson, Cox, Ta'amu.
Be nice to see Brockers at DENs pick though.

I would be. I am high on BPA and Still, Osemele, Brockers, Burfict, Kirkpatrick, Dennard, Thompson and Hightower could all be there. These are the players I would take with #1. Ta'iamu could be around in round 2.

[CoachChaz]

Fletcher Cox is the guy I want #1. I dont know that he'll have a huge impact as a rookie, but by year two...he'll be making some noise.

Brockers would be the first choice, but he'll be gone by 25

[SOCALORADO.]

Fletcher Cox is the guy I want #1. I dont know that he'll have a huge impact as a rookie, but by year two...he'll be making some noise.

Brockers would be the first choice, but he'll be gone by 25

You know if DEN could just manuvuer a little and get Brockers in the 1st, and then in FA get MWilliams, DConnor and DGolston, this teams defense would be mother f-**IN bad ass!! And more importantly, i could start using the "MOTHERF ****IN" TERM again with authority!!! Dammit!
Spend the rest of the picks on offense.

[NightTerror218]

You know if DEN could just manuvuer a little and get Brockers in the 1st, and then in FA get MWilliams, DConnor and DGolston, this teams defense would be mother f-**IN bad ass!! And more importantly, i could start using the "MOTHERF ****IN" TERM again with authority!!! Dammit!
Spend the rest of the picks on offense.

I dont see why get another pass rushing OLB in a 4-3 when you have a pro bowl one already? We need a UT and hoping the draft can bring one. But I want Connor and Golston would be nice too. But i want to beef up the OL too. If we could get Carl Nicks and draft one I will be happy.

[CoachChaz]

I know we have the cap space, but I just dont see much of a point in getting our hopes up for top guys like Williams or Nicks. A mid-level guy at certain positions would be great. Give me Manningham or Meacham at WR...I'd be ok with Connor at MLB as well.

But we NEED to find a stud at corner. There are 3 or 4 guys that I think could help immensely. I'd rather get a stud corner than worry about Mario.

[NightTerror218]

I know we have the cap space, but I just dont see much of a point in getting our hopes up for top guys like Williams or Nicks. A mid-level guy at certain positions would be great. Give me Manningham or Meacham at WR...I'd be ok with Connor at MLB as well.

But we NEED to find a stud at corner. There are 3 or 4 guys that I think could help immensely. I'd rather get a stud corner than worry about Mario.

I agree, but I would love our big FA to be Nicks, Manningham could be let go with Cruz playing awesome, Meacham will prob be kept as they let Nicks go to get the cap space. I would really like Connor to say a 2 yr contract. There are a lot of CBs in draft and in FA too. We should have no problems getting atleast an upgrade over Goodman.

[CoachChaz]

I agree, but I would love our big FA to be Nicks, Manningham could be let go with Cruz playing awesome, Meacham will prob be kept as they let Nicks go to get the cap space. I would really like Connor to say a 2 yr contract. There are a lot of CBs in draft and in FA too. We should have no problems getting atleast an upgrade over Goodman.

Keep in mind Brees and Colston need paydays this off-season as well...and Colston is playing on his 7th round rookie contract. His raise will take a big chunk out of their cap space.

Then they have Franklin and Tracy Porter on the other side of the ball to take care of.

[NightTerror218]

Keep in mind Brees and Colston need paydays this off-season as well...and Colston is playing on his 7th round rookie contract. His raise will take a big chunk out of their cap space.

Then they have Franklin and Tracy Porter on the other side of the ball to take care of.

and the reason of letting Nicks go, he is going to ask a lot.

[CoachChaz]

and the reason of letting Nicks go, he is going to ask a lot.

I still dont see them re-signing 5 of the 6

[NightTerror218]

I still dont see them re-signing 5 of the 6

well a lot will sit on Brees's shoulders too. If he wants his offense to stay together he needs to take less. But the rise of the cap should help too unless they were already new the high end.

[CoachChaz]

well a lot will sit on Brees's shoulders too. If he wants his offense to stay together he needs to take less. But the rise of the cap should help too unless they were already new the high end.

Without re-signing him, they have about $12 mil in space. I just dont see how they get all those guys back in after they re-sign Brees.

[dogfish]

Without re-signing him, they have about $12 mil in space. I just dont see how they get all those guys back in after they re-sign Brees.

they don't. . .

besides which, receivers are interchangeable in that new orleans offense anyway. . . sproles and graham are their mismatch guys. . . i think it's safe to say one of those receivers will hit free agency-- probably meachem, as henderson has basically the same skill set. . .

[CoachChaz]

they don't. . .

besides which, receivers are interchangeable in that new orleans offense anyway. . . sproles and graham are their mismatch guys. . . i think it's safe to say one of those receivers will hit free agency-- probably meachem, as henderson has basically the same skill set. . .

Hence...why he is on my list

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I fear white LB's that went to school in the Big Ten. Anyone else besides Conner?

Cuz Posluszny and Lauranaitis are terrible...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Doesn't really matter whether a player was acquired by trade or through free agency, fact remains that players (not drafted by an organization) can still benefit from those veteran additions. That was the point of my post, look at Champ Bailey, I remember a lot of fans griped that we were trading Portis for Bailey and that we should build through the draft. Now what would the Broncos be without him, he's as iconic to the Broncos as Shannon Sharpe was.

Good Catch though Trav, a lot of people forget what Philips did here, including drafting Tom Nalen.

As for who I'd like to see brought in from Free Agency -

Jake Delhomme (HOU) not that he'll compete, but a whole camp of him passing on knowledge he's attained in John Fox's former system, and the West Coast from Kubiak and Schaub could do wonders for the younger quarterbacks - maybe even just as a third stringer throughout the season would help.

Dan Connor (CAR) I like this cat, he's a tough nosed, blue collar linebacker who knows how to lead a defense which he proved in Carolina, he's Beasons backup but could start almost anywhere else, he'd be a big improvement over Mays.

Michael Bush (OAK) he's not a primary tailback, but in rotation and relief, even third downs he could do wonders for Denver's running back stable. And I think Bush has a lot to prove to people who think he's done in this league, throw in a rookie along with McGahee, we'll have a solid backfield.

Robert Meachem (NO) chances are high that Royal is not returning to Denver, while Meachem has not lived up to his potential in New Orleans, he has tremendous natural ability and pretty good skill set, throw him into the mix with Thomas, Decker and Willis and I see him becoming a solid number two who can help stretch the field opening up the pass offense with the others in receiving corps.

William Middleton (JAC) I would love to see Denver go after Carr or Finnegan, but chances are slim that they'll open up the checkbook that wide until forced next year. Middleton is a young backup corner who showed promise in relief and has a ton of upside. Throwing him into the mix with a mentor like Bailey could make him a steal for Denver and open up the draft more for Denver to target the BPA instead of focusing on needs.

Connor and Meachem are 2 of my top wishes.

I also like Tolbert of San Diego and any of the above average CBs...although I think the NY Giant will come cheapest of the bunch.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Dude. Everybodys goin in the 1st round! LOL!
Everyone! Gimme a break. Theres only 32 spots, man.
I highly doubt he goes in the 1st.

Brockers is projected as a top 15 take

[SmilinAssasSin27]

If Mario would wanna come her, of course we take him. I LOVE Ayers, but he is no Mario. And although I believe it to be an injustice to Ayers to move him inside...it's either that or the bench.

While I basically believe in a draft to build philosophy, there are some guys who would make a huge difference. I don't think it's prudent to get into bidding wars as I believe THAT is what hurts teams long term. However, very few players have the talent of Mario.

Mario aside (cuz I don't believe he comes here). The following is my scenarion for an ideal offseason:

Scenario 1:
Sign Dan Connor
Sign Aaron Ross (or a solid CB like him who won't break our bank)
Sign Mike Tolbert
Sign Robert Meachem
Draft a DT-Still/Brockers/Cox (1 of em is gonna drop. only so many 1st rounders)
Draft a RB-Doug Martin, Cyrus Gray, Isaiah Peade
Draft CB, S, OG and WR

Scenario 2:
Sign big name CB
Sign Mike Tolbert
Sign Robert Meachem
Draft Dont'a Hightower
Draft Ta'amu
Draft RB
fill in the pieces

basically my take on this offseason:

SURE UP THE G-DAM MIDDLE and MAKE A RB STABLE

[NightTerror218]

If Mario would wanna come her, of course we take him. I LOVE Ayers, but he is no Mario. And although I believe it to be an injustice to Ayers to move him inside...it's either that or the bench.

While I basically believe in a draft to build philosophy, there are some guys who would make a huge difference. I don't think it's prudent to get into bidding wars as I believe THAT is what hurts teams long term. However, very few players have the talent of Mario.

Mario aside (cuz I don't believe he comes here). The following is my scenarion for an ideal offseason:

Scenario 1:
Sign Dan Connor
Sign Aaron Ross (or a solid CB like him who won't break our bank)
Sign Mike Tolbert
Sign Robert Meachem
Draft a DT-Still/Brockers/Cox (1 of em is gonna drop. only so many 1st rounders)
Draft a RB-Doug Martin, Cyrus Gray, Isaiah Peade
Draft CB, S, OG and WR

Scenario 2:
Sign big name CB
Sign Mike Tolbert
Sign Robert Meachem
Draft Dont'a Hightower
Draft Ta'amu
Draft RB
fill in the pieces

basically my take on this offseason:

SURE UP THE G-DAM MIDDLE and MAKE A RB STABLE

Scenario 3
Sign Connor
Sign Gholston
Sign Nicks
Draft DT-Still/Brockers/Cox/Thompson
Draft RB- Martin
Draft CB- Bently
Draft WR/RB- Streeter, (or dude going to olympics from FL).

I completely agree about the middle. If we can not sign Nicks I would like to possible draft Konz in the 2nd even though he is the #1 C.

[bcbronc]

So lets see....
DEN aquires
DE Mario Williams
MLB Dan Connor
FS Dashon Goldson


I dunno, imo we should make a run for Drew Brees as well, just for balance.


I guess my thinking is we could get 2 defensive starters for the cost of 1 guy to play a position we already have filled.

And assuming we did sign him, where do we put Ayers? Which side does Mario play? Can he or Doom adjust to the left side?

I think you'd see Doom resting on run downs.

Ayers/x/x/Mario on 1st down/run downs
Mario/x/Ayers/Doom on passing downs.

With that said, the BC Lions have as good a shot at landing Mario Williams as the Denver Broncos do. We're not landing any of the top choices.

Mario would have plenty of teams kicking the tires, some of which will have big $$$ signing bonuses to throw at him. Nicks is a probowl G, if he hits the market he's going to have multiple suitors. We'd have to outbid at least a couple teams to get him, which doesn't seem likely. Same with a guy like Goldson, he's a probowler who blew shit up in the postseason. If he's not back in San Fran, he'll get a bunch of offers.

Yeah, obviously I'd love to add a Goldson to this team, but I don't see us landing too many "top position-x available" type UFAs.

[hamrob]

Pat Bowlen will not spend any money (unless he has to).

There is no "Cap Floor" this year (it doesn't start until 2013)

Plenty of fans will be fooled into thinking it is wise to sign bargain basement free agents...that's what the Broncos want them to believe

This team is riddled with holes....and 2-3 studs in free agency would vastly improve their ability and give them more ability to maneuver in the draft.

But, make no mistakes....the Broncos will not be signing any big names in free agency, this year!

Next year, 2013....they will have no choice but to spend 89% of the Cap which will be north of 120 million! So, next year...that's when we have a chance.

[VonSackemMiller]

there isnt any cap next year the saints will be able to spend.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Pat Bowlen will not spend any money (unless he has to).

There is no "Cap Floor" this year (it doesn't start until 2013)

Plenty of fans will be fooled into thinking it is wise to sign bargain basement free agents...that's what the Broncos want them to believe

This team is riddled with holes....and 2-3 studs in free agency would vastly improve their ability and give them more ability to maneuver in the draft.

But, make no mistakes....the Broncos will not be signing any big names in free agency, this year!

Next year, 2013....they will have no choice but to spend 89% of the Cap which will be north of 120 million! So, next year...that's when we have a chance.


Ya know ham...some folks are actually able to formulate opinions for themselves. Not all are so weakminded that they fall in to Bowlen's apparent "trap". Some of actually see teams like Pitt and NE win by building thru the draft and savvy trading. But feel free to paint everyone who wants us to build via the draft as idiots. It does wonders for YOUR credibility.

[Joel]

It's not an either/or scenario, nor should it be. Teams that need to fill a dozen or more gaping holes at STARTING positions don't have the luxury of building with just the draft and savvy trading. That means finding starters with every single draft choice for the next two years (yeah, right,) and teams like that can't afford to trade away the few (if any) star players they have. If you have 2 Pro Bowl MLBs plus an up and coming rookie that's one thing, but it does no good to fill one hole by creating another.

That's particularly true at positions where rookies rarely perform well. Rookie/second year players usually don't put teams over the top, and I don't have much more faith in a rookie defensive QB than a rookie offensive one, so I hope from necessity we pursue a top FA at MLB, as unlikely as it seems. If a team drafts a player at a position that normally takes a few years to develop, it better have a quality starter expected to leave in a couple years, and not have any holes at other positions where a rookie can contribute immediately. The Steelers may be having second thoughts now about the talented rookie center who missed their only playoff game.

So yeah, build through the draft to the extent possible, but when you know several rookies will take a couple seasons to develop (if they ever do) it's smart to stop gap that with a good FA starter. Also, a handful of elite players can make a tremendous difference in developing those rookies by exposing them to habits and skills they might otherwise never witness. The Steelers and Pats have players like that; teams that don't are well served to acquire some to mentor their rookies. There are no Pro Bowlers in the draft, and trading one to acquire another is usually a zero sum game (at best.)

[bcbronc]

Joel, there's no reason the MLB HAS to be the "defensive QB". If you have a rookie MLB, then DJ likely helps out with the pre-snap adjustments.

[Ravage!!!]

Joel, there's no reason the MLB HAS to be the "defensive QB". If you have a rookie MLB, then DJ likely helps out with the pre-snap adjustments.

Al Wilson started his rookie year due to an injury on our team. He wasn't making all the defensive calls as the rook, but MAN was it beneficial to have him in the lineup!!

[hamrob]

Ya know ham...some folks are actually able to formulate opinions for themselves. Not all are so weakminded that they fall in to Bowlen's apparent "trap". Some of actually see teams like Pitt and NE win by building thru the draft and savvy trading. But feel free to paint everyone who wants us to build via the draft as idiots. It does wonders for YOUR credibility.Building through the draft is one thing, being cheap is another.

For the last few years, this Organization has been cheap! We are extremely fortunate that beginning in 2013 there is a cap floor that all teams will have to meet.

If you disagree, then take a look at where we end up in relation to the cap ceiling this year. We won't even be in the neighborhood. Sure, building through the draft is the blue print, but you also need to sign players that happen to be on the open market to plug holes. And, by the way, we have a lot of holes to plug.

When 4yrs $10m is the extent you are willing to take it....wow, that's just cheap! When we don't have any holes to plug...then, sticking 90% to the draft will be fine!

[CoachChaz]

If a team builds exclusively from the draft that have to be very lucky. You can only expect 2-3 players to become starters. With the shelf life of an NFL player at 3.5 years...it would never work.

No one says tons of money has to be spent...but it is a necessary evil

[Skinny]

Brockers is projected as a top 15 take

If Coples is off the board, he could be a serious consideration for Carolina at #8/#9 depending on the tie breaker. As well as Still.

[LTC Pain]

Keep in mind we have Vickerson and Warren (DTs) coming back from injury next season. That should eliminate Unrein and McBean. Bunkley, Thomas, Vickerson and Warren isn't a bad DT rotation. So, maybe, drafting a DE (or a FA DE) to work in a rotation with Doom and Ayers is a higher priority. Didn't see much from Hunter or Harvey this season. I'm hoping that Irving can bring some violence to the MLB position as Mays was a disappointment. CB/DE/RB in the first three rounds would be okay with me.

[dogfish]

Keep in mind we have Vickerson and Warren (DTs) coming back from injury next season. That should eliminate Unrein and McBean. Bunkley, Thomas, Vickerson and Warren isn't a bad DT rotation.

unfortunately, bunkley, thomas and mcbean are all free agents. . .

[LTC Pain]

unfortunately, bunkley, thomas and mcbean are all free agents. . .

The Broncos need to re-sign Bunkley. I'm on the fence over Thomas. McBean can walk.

[VonSackemMiller]

Bunkley is a top priority. We have to have him back. Thomas for the right price.

[bcbronc]

The Broncos need to re-sign Bunkley. I'm on the fence over Thomas. McBean can walk.

I'd like to get Thomas back too, assuming he doesn't ask for anything ridiculous. Build on what we already have, rather than going back to square one every time.

Honestly, with Fox and Del Rio in the mix, I'm not worried about the DT position for the first time, well, since the Superbowls at least. Don't know if the answer is currently a Bronco or not, but those two guys don't roll with soft up the gut defenses.

[VonSackemMiller]

Jack del rio doesnt. John fox never had any good dts outside of jenkingss.

[HammeredOut]

Broncos should ask Brett Farve to come out of retirement. I bet he could live on an offense that runs the ball 75% of the time.

[NightTerror218]

Jack del rio doesnt. John fox never had any good dts outside of jenkingss.

Del Rio wants a great DL. So he will push for a good pair of DTs.

[Jsteve01]

McBean was our best pass rushing DT this year. I've never been a huge fan but he's worth another look

[NightTerror218]

McBean was our best pass rushing DT this year. I've never been a huge fan but he's worth another look

what about Warren, can he be UT?

[Jsteve01]

what about Warren, can he be UT?

yeah they both are better fits at UT. Bunk is our nose. Thomas really is better as a UT but can give you mins at Nose

[NightTerror218]

yeah they both are better fits at UT. Bunk is our nose. Thomas really is better as a UT but can give you mins at Nose

How would he compare to warren though at UT. Wondering on depth if we draft a UT in draft. Bunk easily NT, Warren is depth or UT. I just dont know Thomas/Vickerson/Warren strengths at DT.

[Jsteve01]

They are all penetrating UTs I just don't know what Warren brings to the table at this point.

[WARHORSE]

One thing we could learn from NE is stockpiling picks.

While they have been in the FA market each year as well, theyve made a huge amount of mistakes in that arena.

But year in and year out, they make sure they have huge draft flexibility.


I believe NE thinks unless you have a player you think can come in and start for sure on your team in the first round....why pick him. If you have a player you think has a ton of potential at your pick in the first round.....why spend the pick?

Players with lots of 'potential' should be risked later. Like in the second round down.

I hope we stick with our draft philosophy.....if we believe they can come in and start.....pick em.

Free agency is always a crap shoot....but a necessary one.

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah.. NE has given up high picks and stockpiled for a few years now. As a result, they haven't drafted worth a shit because they keep relying on lower round talent.

NE hasn't drafted well in years, and their success is directly related to the QB position. They don't have a good defense, they don't have any RBs or WRs. They have 18 undrafted players on the roster.

I don't think following NE is the best idea.

[Joel]

Joel, there's no reason the MLB HAS to be the "defensive QB". If you have a rookie MLB, then DJ likely helps out with the pre-snap adjustments.
He doesn't HAVE to, though if he's not I'd expect one of the safeties to be playing that role, but the nature of the MLB position makes it the best choice for defensive QB when possible. It's a lot easier for the guy equally likely to blitz, cover or play the run to decide which should be his priority each down then orient the rest of the team around that. Easier than, say, the WLB who's usually covering the TE to decide what the MLB AND everyone else should do. Not to mention the fact that lining up in the middle of the front seven gives the the MLB the best view of the offensive formation and the best position to call audibles the whole defense can hear.

So, no, it doesn't HAVE to be the MLB, but ideally it should be. We may have thrown Wilson out there his first year, but you can bet if we had a MLB that good now he'd be on the field. Since we don't, we should get one.

[ursak]

I'd be happy if JDL could bring Jeremy Mincey +/- Matt Roth

[Ravage!!!]

He doesn't HAVE to, though if he's not I'd expect one of the safeties to be playing that role, but the nature of the MLB position makes it the best choice for defensive QB when possible. It's a lot easier for the guy equally likely to blitz, cover or play the run to decide which should be his priority each down then orient the rest of the team around that. Easier than, say, the WLB who's usually covering the TE to decide what the MLB AND everyone else should do. Not to mention the fact that lining up in the middle of the front seven gives the the MLB the best view of the offensive formation and the best position to call audibles the whole defense can hear.

So, no, it doesn't HAVE to be the MLB, but ideally it should be. We may have thrown Wilson out there his first year, but you can bet if we had a MLB that good now he'd be on the field. Since we don't, we should get one.

I think he was meaning his rookie year. The MLB doesn't have to be the QB his rookie season.

[Jsteve01]

Again, Im far from writing Irving off. Go back and watch film on the kid. His film don't lie

[NightTerror218]

Again, Im far from writing Irving off. Go back and watch film on the kid. His film don't lie

I am hoping he comes on strong next season. I heard he was held back a little due to injury. Cause he was only on special teams and a few snaps. He was a beast in college and has an extremely good head and maturity.

[WARHORSE]

Yeah.. NE has given up high picks and stockpiled for a few years now. As a result, they haven't drafted worth a shit because they keep relying on lower round talent.

NE hasn't drafted well in years, and their success is directly related to the QB position. They don't have a good defense, they don't have any RBs or WRs. They have 18 undrafted players on the roster.

I don't think following NE is the best idea.


They seem to be doing pretty well to me.

There are no guarantees in the first round, and I think depending on their scouting or what they have on the roster, taking two second rounders while gaining another first to flex with the following year will go a long way imo.

Fact is, theyre just now coming into the fruition of putting in time and effort of developing these picks.

They not only are in the superbowl........they have two first rounders next year and two second rounders.

Regardless of some of the draft picks that didnt pan out for them, (and EVERY team has them) theyre IN the superbowl and stacked for the draft.

Now youre telling me we shouldnt immitate that?

So they spend a first round pick in this years draft for a player, then trade the other one for a second and a first.....then they have three seconds...thereby having the possibility of trading one, or a 2nd and a third for a first next year.

Whats that mean? Three first rounders next year.......and we shouldnt immitate?

I disagree.:coffee:


Vehemently.

Build through the draft.

[TheReverend]

Carl Nicks is the most potentially vital FA Denver could possibly bring in. It would turn one of our greatest positions of weakness (IOL) into one of our greatest strength and depth and also provide a contingency plan in case Kuper's leg recovery suffers any setbacks,

[SmilinAssasSin27]

They seem to be doing pretty well to me.



Injuries to Schaub and Peyton and a bad lazy drop by Lee Evans has jad a lot to do with their current standing...that and Tom Brady. I agree that their drafting has been poor lately. Once their core group got old, they've been a shell of themselves. Sure, they got in the SB in a very down AFC, but it has little to do w/ the dominance of their youngsters IMHO.

[WARHORSE]

Injuries to Schaub and Peyton and a bad lazy drop by Lee Evans has jad a lot to do with their current standing...that and Tom Brady. I agree that their drafting has been poor lately. Once their core group got old, they've been a shell of themselves. Sure, they got in the SB in a very down AFC, but it has little to do w/ the dominance of their youngsters IMHO.

Huh?

Ya lost me Smilin.:D

Every team in the league has those same moments in certain games.

Heres the gist of it: If we are going to build through the draft, is it better to go into the draft with one first and a second or two firsts and two seconds?

New England is stockpiling picks for the future, and its SMART.

We need to do the same is all Im saying. Continuously building a cache of picks through deft trading is going to lead to future rosters stacked with depth.

New England has a head start over everyone.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Huh?

Ya lost me Smilin.:D

Every team in the league has those same moments in certain games.

Heres the gist of it: If we are going to build through the draft, is it better to go into the draft with one first and a second or two firsts and two seconds?

New England is stockpiling picks for the future, and its SMART.

We need to do the same is all Im saying. Continuously building a cache of picks through deft trading is going to lead to future rosters stacked with depth.

New England has a head start over everyone.

My basic point is that w/o Brady, NE isn't even a playoff team. Yes, they drafted 2 stud TEs and deserve credit for that. Their other recent picks have been average at best. The perfect storm is what got them to a SB. Schaub and Manning hurt. We beat the team who poses the biggest threat to them. The Ravens give them the title game.

I agree that stockpiling picks is a smart move, but at some point, ya need real, legit talent.

[Npba900]

The elite teams build through the draft, but at the same time if a guy can help bring him in. The problem comes when teams just throw money at guys simply because they're the big name FAs. You need to make sure a FA is fit for your particular team and LR.

If we can have another draft like we had last year I'd be happy. Last year we got 1 probowler(Von), 1 long term starter(Franklin), 1 starter with potential(Carter), and some developmental guys and that's not even counting an UFA who IMO will be our Nickel for many years to come(Harris). That's pretty good numbers folks, and history shows that a good number of draft picks don't show their value for at least two years.

Giys like Mohammed, Green, Julius Thomas, Irvin, and Rahim Moore could very well end up as legit starters for us in the future.

You make great points. However, can we also say the Elite Teams have Elite Quarterbacks? The hardest accomplishment of any NFL team is drafting-developing-signing that Elite Franchise QB while drafting and building through the draft.

Lets hope EFX continue to believe that you build a winning team through the draft while hoping in the process that they strike the lottery by also drafting and Elite Franchise QB....like the Patriots struck gold by drafting "Tom Brady".

The Patriots owner and Belicheck would not have had the success over the last 10 years without having drafted Tom Brady.

Question is in the 2012 Draft is their a rookie Tom Brady out there??? or do the Broncos already have their elite QB in Tim Tebow.

[Npba900]

Huh?

Ya lost me Smilin.:D

Every team in the league has those same moments in certain games.

Heres the gist of it: If we are going to build through the draft, is it better to go into the draft with one first and a second or two firsts and two seconds?

New England is stockpiling picks for the future, and its SMART.

We need to do the same is all Im saying. Continuously building a cache of picks through deft trading is going to lead to future rosters stacked with depth.

New England has a head start over everyone.

You are right in this regard concerning the Patriots. They always seem to be ahead of the curve. The Patriots made a smart move in last years draft by drafting in 3rd round, with the 74th pick, Ryan Mallet.

Mallet has an immense talent and could be the heir apparent replacement for Brady. I was surprised to see Mallet drop that far down, but his off the field character issues hurt him.

None-the-less, the Patriots took a chance and saved money in the process. I wish EFX had the long-term vision to have drafted Mallet with their 2nd or 3rd pick as well. Mallet would have been the right talent to push Tebow to continue to improve as a pocket passing quarterback.

In the 2011 draft the Broncos could have drafted Mallet with the 67th pick in the 3rd round.......7 picks ahead of the N.E. Patriots. I would have loved to see Tebow and Mallet battle it out over the next 2 or 3 years to see who would be the number 1 QB here in Denver.

Then Denver would have the scenario of continuing to stock pile talent and building through the draft over the next 3 years while possible already addressing the QB situation of having two young QB on the roster battling it out on who would be the next Franchise QB in Denver.

[VonSackemMiller]

My basic point is that w/o Brady, NE isn't even a playoff team. Yes, they drafted 2 stud TEs and deserve credit for that. Their other recent picks have been average at best. The perfect storm is what got them to a SB. Schaub and Manning hurt. We beat the team who poses the biggest threat to them. The Ravens give them the title game.

I agree that stockpiling picks is a smart move, but at some point, ya need real, legit talent.

You can have all the picks you want if your drafting bust after bust it means nothing. The patriots have been drafting bad for a while now.

[Npba900]

You can have all the picks you want if your drafting bust after bust it means nothing. The patriots have been drafting bad for a while now.

The Patriots might have also struck gold with Mallet. Ryan Mallet could be Brady's replacement in 3-4 years.

[VonSackemMiller]

The Patriots might have also struck gold with Mallet. Ryan Mallet could be Brady's replacement in 3-4 years.

no doubt about that. They have a few hits and he might be one of them if he lays off the cocaine. But overall the patriots drafting has been bad. Untill they start cashing in on all these picks it will mean nothing, they also had the most undrafted guys on there team, undrafted guys beating out your draft picks is not a good thing, edelmen playing nickleback is not a good thing. Having no rbs,wrs,corners,safeties,pass rushers is not a good thing when you have so many draft picks.