Spanos Rant -- Broncos are prepared for Mike McCoy's departure

[Tned]

Spano spoke about this some on his radio show a couple days ago, and posted this article this morning:


SPANO’S RANT

PLAN B - The Broncos are prepared for Mike McCoy’s departure
By Brandon Spano

With Broncos offensive coordinator Mike McCoy being sought after by multiple teams, the Denver Broncos knew that they needed to have a backup plan in case he ended up leaving. Coach McCoy is now approaching his second interview with the Miami Dolphins and after news broke on Wednesday that he had canceled his interview with the Oakland Raiders, it is now looking like McCoy is the frontrunner for the Miami job.

Multiple sources have confirmed that the Dolphins were blown away by McCoy’s performance in his initial interview. Couple that with the fact that McCoy has a solid relationship with current Miami quarterback Matt Moore from their days together in Carolina and McCoy has an advantage over other coaching candidates, namely Todd Bowles and Joe Philbin. Matt Moore showed that he was serviceable this year and if the Dolphins think that they can get a solid year from him while focusing on other areas of need, McCoy’s chances only become better.

If McCoy ends up in Miami, the Broncos will obviously have to find a replacement offensive coordinator. Head coach John Fox already has a list of coaches that he has worked with in the past that he’d consider for the position. One of them is coaching right here in Colorado and is primed for another stint with the Broncos head coach.....

Read Spano's full article here: http://www.milehighsports.com/?p=8267

[GEM]

:laugh: They were blown away by his first interview....sounds oddly familiar...


RUN, MIAMI, RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

[Lancane]

:laugh: They were blown away by his first interview....sounds oddly familiar...


RUN, MIAMI, RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

I think Denver will part ways with McCoy despite if he gets the position or not, but if he gets the job it saves them from having to mar his resume. The way it sounds right now, they're all set to hire Rip Sherer to take over as the offensive coordinator. So not sure it really matters what happens, but in a way I'd like to see him leave on a good note with another opportunity, and likewise hopefully succeed.

[NightTrainLayne]

I think Denver will part ways with McCoy despite if he gets the position or not, but if he gets the job it saves them from having to mar his resume. The way it sounds right now, they're all set to hire Rip Sherer to take over as the offensive coordinator. So not sure it really matters what happens, but in a way I'd like to see him leave on a good note with another opportunity, and likewise hopefully succeed.


What is your reasoning for thinking Denver will part ways with McCoy, even if he doesn't get a HC job?

That would be an odd situation to me. . .multiple teams seriously considering a guy for a HC job and we don't even want him as a coordinator?

Spanos' article even leaves room that Sherer might just be coming in as QB coach, and Gase move up to Coordinator IF McCoy gets a HC job.

[Tned]

What is your reasoning for thinking Denver will part ways with McCoy, even if he doesn't get a HC job?

That would be an odd situation to me. . .multiple teams seriously considering a guy for a HC job and we don't even want him as a coordinator?

Spanos' article even leaves room that Sherer might just be coming in as QB coach, and Gase move up to Coordinator IF McCoy gets a HC job.

While I was one of the people critical of McCoy's play calling (especially first down predictability), I think many of us fans fail to appreciate what he did in terms of changing the offense to win with Tebow. That just isn't done in the middle of an NFL season.

[jhildebrand]

While I was one of the people critical of McCoy's play calling (especially first down predictability), I think many of us fans fail to appreciate what he did in terms of changing the offense to win with Tebow. That just isn't done in the middle of an NFL season.

But why do you automatically credit McCoy for that "coaching?" :confused:

McCoy, as the reports were, didn't want to make the change to this offense for two reasons. First, if it failed he wouldn't get another job in the league. Second, he admitted not knowing. So if he didn't know it how did he install it? :confused:

On a side note, I think predicatability is a John Fox trait.

[Lancane]

What is your reasoning for thinking Denver will part ways with McCoy, even if he doesn't get a HC job?

That would be an odd situation to me. . .multiple teams seriously considering a guy for a HC job and we don't even want him as a coordinator?

Spanos' article even leaves room that Sherer might just be coming in as QB coach, and Gase move up to Coordinator IF McCoy gets a HC job.

Because Denver wants to return to a more traditional offensive system, McCoy could not adapt an offense to play to Tebow's strengths or conform Tebow to fit into a more traditional offense, that's why they decided to run the Option for the most part and look how that ended up being once teams figured out how to stop it or against powerhouse football teams such as Green Bay, Detroit and New England, if not for the Steelers running a different defensive game plan that game could have been drastically different and I think Elway and Fox understand that McCoy is limited, he's only ever been around two different offenses in his career and Tebow had to teach him about the option offensive system.

The offense beside running the ball was downright putrid, take away Tebow's rushing yards and this offense was one of the worst, if not the worst in the league - that needs to change and I think the Broncos' Brass knows this all too well. Sherer is a student of the game and has experience in about six or so different offenses, he knows how to conform spread quarterbacks and adapt offensive systems for a players strengths, that something that neither McCoy and I highly doubt Gase could do. They want Tebow to conform into a more pocket passing quarterback, you need someone who's going to go in 50/50, force him to adapt to the pocket as well as utilize other offensive schemes that allow him to bring his natural abilities to the forefront and be a more all around quarterback or at least as close as possible and I don't see McCoy as the coach who can do that.

[Tned]

But why do you automatically credit McCoy for that "coaching?" :confused:

McCoy, as the reports were, didn't want to make the change to this offense for two reasons. First, if it failed he wouldn't get another job in the league. Second, he admitted not knowing. So if he didn't know it how did he install it? :confused:

On a side note, I think predicatability is a John Fox trait.

On the main note, not the side note, I think McCoy is getting far too little credit, based on sketchy reports. By all accounts, Fox is a pretty hands off guy, so while he may have dictated changes, I doubt he was in the trenches making them. For instance, I don't think he even has a play list/sheet in his hands during the game.

On the side note, I agree to an extent. Fox believes strongly that you must run the ball and stop the run in order to win. So, there is no question that Fox is gong to want the team to establish the run. Whether or not that translates into running on 21 of 22 first downs, I don't know.

[jlarsiii]

Because Denver wants to return to a more traditional offensive system, McCoy could not adapt an offense to play to Tebow's strengths or conform Tebow to fit into a more traditional offense, that's why they decided to run the Option for the most part and look how that ended up being once teams figured out how to stop it or against powerhouse football teams such as Green Bay, Detroit and New England, if not for the Steelers running a different defensive game plan that game could have been drastically different and I think Elway and Fox understand that McCoy is limited, he's only ever been around two different offenses in his career and Tebow had to teach him about the option offensive system.

The offense beside running the ball was downright putrid, take away Tebow's rushing yards and this offense was one of the worst, if not the worst in the league - that needs to change and I think the Broncos' Brass knows this all too well. Sherer is a student of the game and has experience in about six or so different offenses, he knows how to conform spread quarterbacks and adapt offensive systems for a players strengths, that something that neither McCoy and I highly doubt Gase could do. They want Tebow to conform into a more pocket passing quarterback, you need someone who's going to go in 50/50, force him to adapt to the pocket as well as utilize other offensive schemes that allow him to bring his natural abilities to the forefront and be a more all around quarterback or at least as close as possible and I don't see McCoy as the coach who can do that.

And you know of that how, exactly? Were you a fly on the wall of dove valley? That is only your guess, and it looks like a poor one.

I don't think any coach could have gotten Tebow to conform to a traditional offense. Tebow doesn't possess the prerequisite skills to do so (no footwork, no accuracy, no ability to read defenses, etc.). It is a total cop out to lay that at the feet of McCoy.

And, if McCoy was so darn clueless about the option, then I commend him for implementing what he did to play directly to Tebow's STRENGTHS. Again, this goes directly against what you posted.

I agree the McCoy's playcalling sucked at the best of times (as others have posted). However, without a shadow of a doubt I lay the blame for this inept offense at the feet of the QB. The coaching staff took a lemon and made lemonade, and you want to blame them for that?:confused: Maybe you should focus your attention more on the lemon(s) that we started with...

[NightTerror218]

And you know of that how, exactly? Were you a fly on the wall of dove valley? That is only your guess, and it looks like a poor one.

I don't think any coach could have gotten Tebow to conform to a traditional offense. Tebow doesn't possess the prerequisite skills to do so (no footwork, no accuracy, no ability to read defenses, etc.). It is a total cop out to lay that at the feet of McCoy.

And, if McCoy was so darn clueless about the option, then I commend him for implementing what he did to play directly to Tebow's STRENGTHS. Again, this goes directly against what you posted.

I agree the McCoy's playcalling sucked at the best of times (as others have posted). However, without a shadow of a doubt I lay the blame for this inept offense at the feet of the QB. The coaching staff took a lemon and made lemonade, and you want to blame them for that?:confused: Maybe you should focus your attention more on the lemon(s) that we started with...

I personally think Tebow would do well in Cam Newtons offense and then in Bradys too with those targets.

[jhildebrand]

On the main note, not the side note, I think McCoy is getting far too little credit, based on sketchy reports. By all accounts, Fox is a pretty hands off guy, so while he may have dictated changes, I doubt he was in the trenches making them. For instance, I don't think he even has a play list/sheet in his hands during the game.


This smacks of the Xanders talk which, ironically, has come to the forefront again. If things are good a guy gets the credit. If they were bad it was a group to be blamed or a guy no longer here.

What is sketchy about the reports? McCoy has come out and said those things. He also never denied them! I would think if they were untrue in any fashion he would deny them if for no other reason than to protect his HC opportunities.

[Lancane]

And you know of that how, exactly? Were you a fly on the wall of dove valley? That is only your guess, and it looks like a poor one.

I don't think any coach could have gotten Tebow to conform to a traditional offense. Tebow doesn't possess the prerequisite skills to do so (no footwork, no accuracy, no ability to read defenses, etc.). It is a total cop out to lay that at the feet of McCoy.

And, if McCoy was so darn clueless about the option, then I commend him for implementing what he did to play directly to Tebow's STRENGTHS. Again, this goes directly against what you posted.

I agree the McCoy's playcalling sucked at the best of times (as others have posted). However, without a shadow of a doubt I lay the blame for this inept offense at the feet of the QB. The coaching staff took a lemon and made lemonade, and you want to blame them for that?:confused: Maybe you should focus your attention more on the lemon(s) that we started with...

It's not a guess, maybe you need to read a little more, Tebow and McCoy have both admitted that McCoy was extremely limited in his knowledge of the option offense, and Tebow proved he struggled in a more traditional offense, hence the lack of McCoy being able to conform Tebow to a pro-style offense and if not for Tebow's knowledge of the option offense it would have been even more disastrous. McCoy has had two seasons to work with Tebow...would you say that he looks improved in his passing mechanics? I sure in the hell wouldn't. As to commending him, I'll commend him for running a lackluster collegiate style offense, I've already stated that he was in around about way forced to, but his overall football knowledge regarding offense is limited from those he learned from. As for Tebow's strengths, he didn't game plan and scheme to Tebow's strengths, he allowed them to control the system, play calling and game planning - there is a difference.

I'm not hating on McCoy, I don't think he's the right guy for the job. However, I do believe he'd find success in Miami with his knowledge of various spread offenses and the smashmouth, while Denver would be better suited at least in my own opinion with a Coryell or Pistol based offense, much like Pittsburgh.

[MOtorboat]

I personally think Tebow would do well in Cam Newtons offense and then in Bradys too with those targets.

It just baffles me when people say they think Tebow would be good in an NFL Spread system.

McCoy did a pretty good job with a subpar quarterback and wide receivers that were inconsistent.

If they do hand it to Gase, it's likely for two reasons, A.) conservative offense like this year's, B.) consistency.

[NightTerror218]

It just baffles me when people say they think Tebow would be good in an NFL Spread system.

McCoy did a pretty good job with a subpar quarterback and wide receivers that were inconsistent.

If they do hand it to Gase, it's likely for two reasons, A.) conservative offense like this year's, B.) consistency.

They are offenses heavy on TEs and short passes. Cam Newtons is a running offense with screens and TEs. Not to mention Smith catching the deep balls.

Go ahead me baffled.

[MOtorboat]

They are offenses heavy on TEs and short passes. Cam Newtons is a running offense with screens and TEs. Not to mention Smith catching the deep balls.

Go ahead me baffled.

He lacks every skill it takes to make those passes. Quick release, good footwork, timing, anticipation...

[MileHighCrew]

While I was one of the people critical of McCoy's play calling (especially first down predictability), I think many of us fans fail to appreciate what he did in terms of changing the offense to win with Tebow. That just isn't done in the middle of an NFL season.

I agree with you except the play calling was lacking and I would think most teams hope they don't end up in the situation where they have to change their entire O mid season.

[NightTerror218]

He lacks every skill it takes to make those passes. Quick release, good footwork, timing, anticipation...

have you seen him attempt those passes? You should have because he has made several of them in games to Royal, Deck and Johnson. TEs are always blocking so they are never out there. But he has made this quick passes. Try watching games and avoiding extremes like you always put, one way or the other.

[MOtorboat]

have you seen him attempt those passes? You should have because he has made several of them in games to Royal, Deck and Johnson. TEs are always blocking so they are never out there. But he has made this quick passes. Try watching games and avoiding extremes like you always put, one way or the other.

He's extremely inconsistent at best. I'm not speaking in absolutes. When I say he can't make those throws (when analysts say he can't make those throws) it's not that he can't physically throw the pass, it's that he can't do it consistently enough at this level. For every completed short pass I've seen, I've seen two that weren't even remotely accurate. Sorry, that doesn't cut it.

[NightTerror218]

He's extremely inconsistent at best. I'm not speaking in absolutes. When I say he can't make those throws (when analysts say he can't make those throws) it's not that he can't physically throw the pass, it's that he can't do it consistently enough at this level. For every completed short pass I've seen, I've seen two that weren't even remotely accurate. Sorry, that doesn't cut it.

Well I am glad you listen to others rather then watching the games. Because I bet they are all NFL gurus not to mention all of them have different opinions. As for the short passes, Tebow throws less of them then another other QB in the league. I dont know the thinking going behind it but go figure that we dont use check down or any other short pass. So saying he cant do is a lame duck excuse because those plays are just not called. That is not what this offense does. This offense is about running the ball and taking shots downfield an a couple other passes here and there to keep the defense someone on their toes. That is all we have done.

[MOtorboat]

Well I am glad you listen to others rather then watching the games. Because I bet they are all NFL gurus not to mention all of them have different opinions. As for the short passes, Tebow throws less of them then another other QB in the league. I dont know the thinking going behind it but go figure that we dont use check down or any other short pass. So saying he cant do is a lame duck excuse because those plays are just not called. That is not what this offense does. This offense is about running the ball and taking shots downfield an a couple other passes here and there to keep the defense someone on their toes. That is all we have done.

Why weren't those short pass plays called?

[NightTerror218]

Why weren't those short pass plays called?

that is my question, if you can answer it I would love to hear it.:salute:

[Buff]

Well I am glad you listen to others rather then watching the games. Because I bet they are all NFL gurus not to mention all of them have different opinions. As for the short passes, Tebow throws less of them then another other QB in the league. I dont know the thinking going behind it but go figure that we dont use check down or any other short pass. So saying he cant do is a lame duck excuse because those plays are just not called. That is not what this offense does. This offense is about running the ball and taking shots downfield an a couple other passes here and there to keep the defense someone on their toes. That is all we have done.

Ugh.

Didn't you just bitch at Mo for speaking in absolutes?

You're trying to make the case that Tebow doesn't throw check downs because they aren't a part of the offense?

The Teboys are ridiculous with their reasoning and constant passing of the buck. It's also equally laughable to me that Bronco fans are acting like losing Mike McCoy would be a good thing. Typically bad coaches aren't head coaching candidates with multiple teams.

[MOtorboat]

that is my question, if you can answer it I would love to hear it.:salute:

I tried to. You obviously don't like the answer.

[dogfish]

Sherer is a student of the game and has experience in about six or so different offenses, he knows how to conform spread quarterbacks and adapt offensive systems for a players strengths, that something that neither McCoy and I highly doubt Gase could do. They want Tebow to conform into a more pocket passing quarterback, you need someone who's going to go in 50/50, force him to adapt to the pocket as well as utilize other offensive schemes that allow him to bring his natural abilities to the forefront and be a more all around quarterback or at least as close as possible and I don't see McCoy as the coach who can do that.

does sherer know the ohio river offense?

[NightTerror218]

I tried to. You obviously don't like the answer.

Well when all you say every thread is the same, it just gets ignored. Since you only look at one aspect instead of everything.

[NightTerror218]

Ugh.

Didn't you just bitch at Mo for speaking in absolutes?

You're trying to make the case that Tebow doesn't throw check downs because they aren't a part of the offense?

The Teboys are ridiculous with their reasoning and constant passing of the buck. It's also equally laughable to me that Bronco fans are acting like losing Mike McCoy would be a good thing. Typically bad coaches aren't head coaching candidates with multiple teams.

I think the whole offense is a cluster ****, with no help from the top down to dick. Tebow need to improve, the OL needs to be better, play calling was shitty and predictable. When the play calling changed in the 4th quarter because it had to things changed but on the other hand when the game was put on Tebows arm he could not do it. I dont pass the buck I put it on the entire offense except Mcgahee.

BTW dont call me a Teboy like bullgator. Mo your your "little friend" that you have to stick up to him when someone questions his opinion as being dumb, statistically lame and lacking any backing except saying "but those guys on tv say it"?

Tebow cant pass= absolute
Tebow is not accurate and needs to improve and so does the rest of offense=not absolute.

[Buff]

I think the whole offense is a cluster ****, with no help from the top down to dick. Tebow need to improve, the OL needs to be better, play calling was shitty and predictable. When the play calling changed in the 4th quarter because it had to things changed but on the other hand when the game was put on Tebows arm he could not do it. I dont pass the buck I put it on the entire offense except Mcgahee.

BTW dont call me a Teboy like bullgator. Mo your your "little friend" that you have to stick up to him when someone questions his opinion as being dumb, statistically lame and lacking any backing except saying "but those guys on tv say it"?

Tebow cant pass= absolute
Tebow is not accurate and needs to improve and so does the rest of offense=not absolute.

The offense was a cluster**** because they were making it up as they went and figuring out what Tebow can and can't do through trial and error.

Thats what WE wanted as fans. We were done with the Kyle Orton-led unproductive offense... We wanted a new direction, and we got it. Now you've got a faction of Tebow fanatics who want to run the OC out of town for no reason aside from their own distorted view on reality.

Mo is a big boy (figuratively of course) and can fight his own battles. I only interjected because I disagreed with your opinion that McCoy's playcalling was a bigger drag on the offense than Tebow's lack of passing ability.

[NightTerror218]

The offense was a cluster**** because they were making it up as they went and figuring out what Tebow can and can't do through trial and error.

Thats what WE wanted as fans. We were done with the Kyle Orton-led unproductive offense... We wanted a new direction, and we got it. Now you've got a faction of Tebow fanatics who want to run the OC out of town for no reason aside from their own distorted view on reality.

Mo is a big boy (figuratively of course) and can fight his own battles. I only interjected because I disagreed with your opinion that McCoy's playcalling was a bigger drag on the offense than Tebow's lack of passing ability.

I think when the offense is being shut down completely (like pats game) and that not aspect a single aspect is working what so ever......its the OC and execution. Both are equally to blame, tired of everyone throwing Tebows ass under the bus. IMO the entire offense was to blame not just the QB. Figure once Tebow stepped in our run offense took off and passing dropped.

[Buff]

I think when the offense is being shut down completely (like pats game) and that not aspect a single aspect is working what so ever......its the OC and execution. Both are equally to blame, tired of everyone throwing Tebows ass under the bus. IMO the entire offense was to blame not just the QB. Figure once Tebow stepped in our run offense took off and passing dropped.

I will agree that the entire offense can share in the blame.

But I also think there is something to the theory that Tebow's passing skillset is limited, and therefore the offense is limited.

That said, you can't discount the other dimension that Tebow opened up with his legs and improvisation.

That's why I think the offense would benefit most from an offseason of continuity led by Mike McCoy.

[NightTerror218]

I will agree that the entire offense can share in the blame.

But I also think there is something to the theory that Tebow's passing skillset is limited, and therefore the offense is limited.

That said, you can't discount the other dimension that Tebow opened up with his legs and improvisation.

That's why I think the offense would benefit most from an offseason of continuity led by Mike McCoy.

I think McCoy is too limited in his experience and lack of play calling. I also think that he does what ever Fox wants without giving his own opinion. He was too predictable in playcalling that even my 2 yr old nephew could guess the play. I never liked McCoy from day 1 as the OC. Only reason he is OC right now is because he worked with Fox back in carolina.

I think Tebows skill set is limited, but I also think that a young QB needs to be limited in plays as you bring him along, you dont throw him in the fire. Many young QBs are given one side of the field to work on and are also given the short quick passes that do not require progressions and reading the defense as much.

I was disappointed that the offense went from what it did with Orton to not changing with Tebow, then getting a complete revamp rather then a change in play calling to cater more to "high percentage simple throws"

[Lancane]

does sherer know the ohio river offense?

He's never been a coach under a coordinator that ever utilized the Ohio River System as far as I know.

[tomjonesrocks]

I don't like it despite McCoy's perceived flaws. Would like a year without coaching changes.

Better McCoy than Allen though. If we lose Allen as well that will suck.

[broncobryce]

Well when all you say every thread is the same, it just gets ignored. Since you only look at one aspect instead of everything.

That's what the ignore button is for my man.

[broncobryce]

The offense was a cluster**** because they were making it up as they went and figuring out what Tebow can and can't do through trial and error.

Thats what WE wanted as fans. We were done with the Kyle Orton-led unproductive offense... We wanted a new direction, and we got it. Now you've got a faction of Tebow fanatics who want to run the OC out of town for no reason aside from their own distorted view on reality.

Mo is a big boy (figuratively of course) and can fight his own battles. I only interjected because I disagreed with your opinion that McCoy's playcalling was a bigger drag on the offense than Tebow's lack of passing ability.

Yeah, it was such a drag going from 1-4 to winning the division. What a bummer.

[Medford Bronco]

:laugh: They were blown away by his first interview....sounds oddly familiar...


RUN, MIAMI, RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

I am sure Matt Moore is thrilled :lol:

[Medford Bronco]

Ugh.

Didn't you just bitch at Mo for speaking in absolutes?

You're trying to make the case that Tebow doesn't throw check downs because they aren't a part of the offense?

The Teboys are ridiculous with their reasoning and constant passing of the buck. It's also equally laughable to me that Bronco fans are acting like losing Mike McCoy would be a good thing. Typically bad coaches aren't head coaching candidates with multiple teams.

Buff as an aside, I miss the Jay vs Jake wars :lol:

I like the kid but see a whole lot of holes that need a lot of working on. I wish him well. I am just a skeptic and not sure if he can do it.

It would be nice to get him some better WR as well. An Andre Johnsonn type or Megatron makes any QB better. A nice TE that can catch as well

I think we have 1 and 1/2 WR right now and that does not help Tebow either. Someone other than Thomas need to help. Just my take

[Tned]

This smacks of the Xanders talk which, ironically, has come to the forefront again. If things are good a guy gets the credit. If they were bad it was a group to be blamed or a guy no longer here.

What is sketchy about the reports? McCoy has come out and said those things. He also never denied them! I would think if they were untrue in any fashion he would deny them if for no other reason than to protect his HC opportunities.

Quotes & links??

[Lancane]

Yeah, it was such a drag going from 1-4 to winning the division. What a bummer.

We nearly lost the division as well, people need to have a little perspective. Fact is that the Broncos were not in control of their own destiny, another team was. The Broncos were 2-4 against playoff bound teams, should have been 2-5 since Tennessee should have been in the playoffs. One of those wins came while Kyle Orton was still the quarterback, against Cincinnati. The only playoff bound team the Tebow led offense beat was Pittsburgh, outscored 225 to 108 in those contests, averaging 18 points a game against such teams.

[dogfish]

He's never been a coach under a coordinator that ever utilized the Ohio River System as far as I know.

then the hell with that guy-- i don't want him. . . :D

[broncobryce]

We nearly lost the division as well, people need to have a little perspective. Fact is that the Broncos were not in control of their own destiny, another team was. The Broncos were 2-4 against playoff bound teams, should have been 2-5 since Tennessee should have been in the playoffs. One of those wins came while Kyle Orton was still the quarterback, against Cincinnati. The only playoff bound team the Tebow led offense beat was Pittsburgh, outscored 225 to 108 in those contests, averaging 18 points a game against such teams.

The only playoff team Tebow beat was IN the playoffs, after he got them there, nice minimizing. Go look up the Broncos record when Tebow is starting compared to when he's not the last few years. That means something to me. Minimize it all you want, but hate or love it, Tebow is starting in 2012.

[MOtorboat]

The only playoff team Tebow beat was IN the playoffs, after he got them there, nice minimizing. Go look up the Broncos record when Tebow is starting compared to when he's not the last few years. That means something to me. Minimize it all you want, but hate or love it, Tebow is starting in 2012.

Awesome.

Some of us enjoy talking about what ifs and analyzing the team past the shallowness of the "hurray, Tebow rox I lluv him and we gonna be awsom next yr two!"

Lancane has an incredibly valid point. The team struggled against good teams and thrived against teams that didn't make the playoffs. Much of it was offensive woes, whether that be McCoy (which I personally doubt) or Tebow (who probably, REALISTICALLY carries much of the blame) to the offensive line and the wide receivers (who need to improve, but certainly not as much as the QB).

Now, if McCoy leaves, it puts Denver in an interesting position. Do they elevate Gase and keep the same conservative philosophy? I see that as the best action, and Scherer actually fits in well with that philosophy.

[Buff]

Yeah, it was such a drag going from 1-4 to winning the division. What a bummer.

:confused:

Teboys don't even read posts anymore, they just assume we're attacking their savior.

All I was saying is that McCoy is an asset and the jury is still out on Tebow.

[Lancane]

The only playoff team Tebow beat was IN the playoffs, after he got them there, nice minimizing. Go look up the Broncos record when Tebow is starting compared to when he's not the last few years. That means something to me. Minimize it all you want, but hate or love it, Tebow is starting in 2012.

First off, I never blamed Tebow now did I? So get a grip, seriously. Some 'Tebowites' need a reality check, facts can not be argued past a certain degree and this is one of them. The offense struggled against teams with a .500 record or better, especially those who were locks for the playoffs. Yes, Tebow led the Broncos past the Steelers in the Wild Card game, but it can be argued that they were hurt, banged up and in the end out coached themselves. You scrap the rushing yards that Tebow racked up this season then the offense was horrific in almost all categories and possibly the worst in the NFL, that is a problem Bryce, whether or not you and the other Tebow supporters want to agree, it's a fact. Worst passing offense in the NFL, worst passing stats for a starting quarterback in the NFL.

This was about McCoy and the offense he ran due to Tebow's limited skill set, or so we've been led to believe. Tebow needs to be conformed into a more pro-style quarterback - per Elway, Bailey, Fox and several other respectable sources, so when someone mentions that a change from McCoy might be best, people's panties tie up into a knot and they don't even discuss the issue and that is absolutely ludicrous.

And can anyone truly say that they believe we deserved to be in the Playoffs? While a team like Tennessee (9-7) was not? People on here griped about Seattle a season ago, stating that no team of .500 or less should be in the playoffs unless there is no one with a better record. This offense and Tebow struggled against teams that we're good enough or locks for the playoffs, that is just a fact and I suggest that people deal with it.

[BroncoJoe]

Awesome.

Some of us enjoy talking about what ifs and analyzing the team past the shallowness of the "hurray, Tebow rox I lluv him and we gonna be awsom next yr two!"

Lancane has an incredibly valid point. The team struggled against good teams and thrived against teams that didn't make the playoffs. Much of it was offensive woes, whether that be McCoy (which I personally doubt) or Tebow (who probably, REALISTICALLY carries much of the blame) to the offensive line and the wide receivers (who need to improve, but certainly not as much as the QB).

Now, if McCoy leaves, it puts Denver in an interesting position. Do they elevate Gase and keep the same conservative philosophy? I see that as the best action, and Scherer actually fits in well with that philosophy.

You can say that about the Patriots too :eek:

[MOtorboat]

You can say that about the Patriots too :eek:

So?

[wayninja]

Awesome.

Some of us enjoy talking about what ifs and analyzing the team past the shallowness of the "hurray, Tebow rox I lluv him and we gonna be awsom next yr two!"

Lancane has an incredibly valid point. The team struggled against good teams and thrived against teams that didn't make the playoffs. Much of it was offensive woes, whether that be McCoy (which I personally doubt) or Tebow (who probably, REALISTICALLY carries much of the blame) to the offensive line and the wide receivers (who need to improve, but certainly not as much as the QB).

Now, if McCoy leaves, it puts Denver in an interesting position. Do they elevate Gase and keep the same conservative philosophy? I see that as the best action, and Scherer actually fits in well with that philosophy.

Lancane's point might be more valid if we didn't start 1-4 and if anyone had expected us to get anywhere near the playoffs this year.

We were supposed to struggle. Against almost everyone. I'm not saying that is a good thing, but you do know we were 2nd worst team in the NFL last year, right?

[MOtorboat]

Lancane's point might be more valid if we didn't start 1-4 and if anyone had expected us to get anywhere near the playoffs this year.

We were supposed to struggle. Against almost everyone. I'm not saying that is a good thing, but you do know we were 2nd worst team in the NFL last year, right?

The Chiefs did nearly the same thing the year before. Turnaround happens quick in the NFL because the talent is spread out so evenly.

It really IS ok to be disappointed that once Denver got into the position to win the division handedly they didn't do it. It's also OK to be happy that they made the playoffs. It's also OK (and natural) for us to discuss the offensive ups and downs. It's also OK to be extremely pleased with the progress of the defense and Von Miller.

It's OK to discuss this stuff, and it's OK to have a critical eye on even some of the best aspects of the team. It's OK to be pleased.

It just gets annoying everytime you aim a critical eye at anything, the automatic answer is, yeah, but the team was 1-4 and didn't expect to be in the position it was in, without an even valid response to the thought on the table.

[Lancane]

Lancane's point might be more valid if we didn't start 1-4 and if anyone had expected us to get anywhere near the playoffs this year.

We were supposed to struggle. Against almost everyone. I'm not saying that is a good thing, but you do know we were 2nd worst team in the NFL last year, right?

Okay Nin, but what about the gimmick factor? Miami used the Wild Cat offense, it found short success, until teams figured it out and since it's been worthless - unless used sparingly. Same can be said for the Option Read that Denver ran, if we try that crap again, without forcing Tebow to improve, demanding that he improve, and using a more pro-style offense...then we'll be lucky to be a .500 ball club come the end of the season. I credit the 'Gimmick Factor' with at least half of those wins.

Had McCoy kept to the Erhardt-Perkins offense, we'd have struggled without any recourse and it might have been better for Tebow had we, it would have forced him to change, to conform.

I think we can argue and debate quite earnestly if we're indeed a middle of the road, a playoff capable or even a good football team. Statistically the defense was better and worse offensively.

[wayninja]

The Chiefs did nearly the same thing the year before. Turnaround happens quick in the NFL because the talent is spread out so evenly.

It really IS ok to be disappointed that once Denver got into the position to win the division handedly they didn't do it. It's also OK to be happy that they made the playoffs. It's also OK (and natural) for us to discuss the offensive ups and downs. It's also OK to be extremely pleased with the progress of the defense and Von Miller.

It's OK to discuss this stuff, and it's OK to have a critical eye on even some of the best aspects of the team. It's OK to be pleased.

It just gets annoying everytime you aim a critical eye at anything, the automatic answer is, yeah, but the team was 1-4 and didn't expect to be in the position it was in, without an even valid response to the thought on the table.

There's a fine line between being critical and being impossible to please. When criticisms either deny or reject reality, they are sorta hard to take seriously. We came 'close' to losing the division, but did not actually lose it. So it's definitely fair to say there's areas to improve upon, but when folks have the same level of vitriol as though we had actually lost the division, I'm just sorta puzzled.

So, sure, be critical. But also temper the criticism with the reality that good things actually did happen. If you don't acknowledge any of the good, it just makes you look petulant.

[wayninja]

Okay Nin, but what about the gimmick factor? Miami used the Wild Cat offense, it found short success, until teams figured it out and since it's been worthless - unless used sparingly. Same can be said for the Option Read that Denver ran, if we try that crap again, without forcing Tebow to improve, demanding that he improve, and using a more pro-style offense...then we'll be lucky to be a .500 ball club come the end of the season. I credit the 'Gimmick Factor' with at least half of those wins.

The problem I have is that you've doomed something to failure before the chance has even been given. Who says we will even run this offense again next year? We probably won't even have the same guy calling plays...

You can credit wins to whatever you like. As long as you are happy about the wins instead of strangely bitter.


Had McCoy kept to the Erhardt-Perkins offense, we'd have struggled without any recourse and it might have been better for Tebow had we, it would have forced him to change, to conform.

Had, Would, Might have, really? Yeah, it may also have been much, much worse. So?

If we would have struggled 'so bad' and lost tons of games, it's not likely Tebow would be the starter next year. But I'm guessing that's probably what you are getting at anyway.


I think we can argue and debate quite earnestly if we're indeed a middle of the road, a playoff capable or even a good football team. Statistically the defense was better and worse offensively.

The defense had some good performances and some bad ones. So did the offense. I would probably agree that the offense needs more work than the defense, but both need it in spades. But I'm not sure that is either surprising to anyone or justifies the irritation about 'almost not making the playoffs'.

[NightTerror218]

The Chiefs did nearly the same thing the year before. Turnaround happens quick in the NFL because the talent is spread out so evenly.

It really IS ok to be disappointed that once Denver got into the position to win the division handedly they didn't do it. It's also OK to be happy that they made the playoffs. It's also OK (and natural) for us to discuss the offensive ups and downs. It's also OK to be extremely pleased with the progress of the defense and Von Miller.

It's OK to discuss this stuff, and it's OK to have a critical eye on even some of the best aspects of the team. It's OK to be pleased.

It just gets annoying everytime you aim a critical eye at anything, the automatic answer is, yeah, but the team was 1-4 and didn't expect to be in the position it was in, without an even valid response to the thought on the table.

I also give credit to coaching this season on defense, and the fact 2010 was a bad injury season (loss of doomer, bad season for dawkins).

[broncosfannum24]

The team overall needs to improve, there i said whats needed to be said

[broncobryce]

:confused:

Teboys don't even read posts anymore, they just assume we're attacking their savior.

All I was saying is that McCoy is an asset and the jury is still out on Tebow.

That's the point. If mccoy is an asset I don't see how you can say tebow isn't.

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[NightTerror218]

The only playoff team Tebow beat was IN the playoffs, after he got them there, nice minimizing. Go look up the Broncos record when Tebow is starting compared to when he's not the last few years. That means something to me. Minimize it all you want, but hate or love it, Tebow is starting in 2012.

The broncos also kept several teams out of the playoffs. Like Jets, Raiders and Chargers. 1 more loss and two of them would have made it in the playoffs maybe all three depending on how wildcard would have worked.