Horse-apples !

[Chef Zambini]

to all those who continue to excuse tebow for his lack of an NFL passing ability because there was no off season, i say
HORSE-APPLES!
Andy dalton didnt get an off season either and he is lightyears ahead of TT as an NFL style QB !
I didnt hear JE say he was going to Tailor OUR offense to fit TTs skill set, intead I heard him say he will try to make TT a better NFL style passer.
good luck with that!
results, again I say HORSE-APPLES!
JE does say that others unafraid to come to camp to compete against TT working in a pro style offense are welcome?
Tebow will look like
HORSE-APPLES compared to ANY legit vet or a talented rookie like Kellen moore.

[CoachChaz]

I think the excuse TT has is going from the Florida system...to sitting around learning McD's system...to being thrust into McCoy's system. If he hasnt had an off-season to do something, then adjusting is that thing. I see Elway working with him in the off-season and this is his one shot to prove everyone wrong. He'll either improve and be capable of handling a more traditional NFL offense...or he'll fail and we'll be drafting a QB in 2013

[catfish]

which stat are we comparing to Dalton?...I am lost

[Chef Zambini]

to all those who continue to excuse tebow for his lack of an NFL passing ability because there was no off season, i say
HORSE-APPLES!
Andy dalton didnt get an off season either and he is lightyears ahead of TT as an NFL style QB !
I didnt hear JE say he was going to Tailor OUR offense to fit TTs skill set, intead I heard him say he will try to make TT a better NFL style passer.
good luck with that!
results, again I say HORSE-APPLES!
JE does say that others unafraid to come to camp to compete against TT working in a pro style offense are welcome?
Tebow will look like
HORSE-APPLES compared to ANY legit vet or a talented rookie like Kellen moore.you just hate tebow and you are stoopid and your breah smells like horse-apples !
JE was the greatest QB of all time, just look at all the QBs he has tutered to become great NFL QBs!
so what if TT hasnt played NFL style QB and has been something completely different as a QB his entire football life?
he works harder than any human being and your are a pile of horse-apples!
defenses dont know how to defend against tebow
the players all love tebow. did you hear ther comments about tebow as the starter NEXT season?
with our smothering defense we just need to continue to be the best running attack in the NFL, so what if JE said he is going to work on making TT a pocket passer and diminish his threat as a runner, you sir, have a cranium filled with horse-apples.
I love tebow and god loves tebow so he will be great and just like moses lead us to the land of milk and honey while your plate is full of, you guessed it, horse-apples !

[Chef Zambini]

which stat are we comparing to Dalton?...I am lost

tats / schmats, just watch the kid! he throws an NFL quality pass, he reads defenses before and after the snap,
he has poise and presence in the pocket,
makes good reads and good decisions with the ball.
Next year only his second, he will be even better.
Cam Newton, tebow is a farce compared to newton who also had ZERO pre-season camps.
LUCK and RG III, they will both make TT look like an incompetent in their first rookie campain! ... and if our broncos are fortunate enuff to drfat kellen moore he will secure a clip-board for TT in an open competition!
and Moore will be a 4th round pick at best !

[Jsteve01]

tats / schmats, just watch the kid! he throws an NFL quality pass, he reads defenses before and after the snap,
he has poise and presence in the pocket,
makes good reads and good decisions with the ball.
Next year only his second, he will be even better.
Cam Newton, tebow is a farce compared to newton who also had ZERO pre-season camps.
LUCK and RG III, they will both make TT look like an incompetent in their first rookie campain! ... and if our broncos are fortunate enuff to drfat kellen moore he will secure a clip-board for TT in an open competition!
and Moore will be a 4th round pick at best !

And Dalton has a playoff victory to his credit to boot....oh wait

[Jsteve01]

but in all seriousness Dalton does beat Tebow in every category

[chazoe60]

Blah blah blah. Let me guess, Tebow sucks?

[Chef Zambini]

And Dalton has a playoff victory to his credit to boot....oh waitcam newtron, did not make the play-offs either, I dare you to tell me you would prefer tebow as our QB over newton.

[Nomad]

Thanks Zambini....I learned a new word in horse-apples.:lol:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Horse+Apple


One thing I'm curious about though, I've seen your concern multiples times with Tebow going to the Philippines....why is that?

[BroncoNut]

to all those who continue to excuse tebow for his lack of an NFL passing ability because there was no off season, i say
HORSE-APPLES!
Andy dalton didnt get an off season either and he is lightyears ahead of TT as an NFL style QB !
I didnt hear JE say he was going to Tailor OUR offense to fit TTs skill set, intead I heard him say he will try to make TT a better NFL style passer.
good luck with that!
results, again I say HORSE-APPLES!
JE does say that others unafraid to come to camp to compete against TT working in a pro style offense are welcome?
Tebow will look like
HORSE-APPLES compared to ANY legit vet or a talented rookie like Kellen moore.

Andy Dalton didn't get past round 1. the fact of the matter is, Zam, that you really don't know shit. Maybe Tim needs and offseason more than Andrew. who knows? you sure as hell don't. If you're high on Dalton, become a bengals fan

[Chef Zambini]

houstons YATES a rookie with no pre-season, a third string late rounder, with no NFL camp whats-so- ever, forced into action as the 4th option, went 4-1 down the stretch 'won a play-off game too"
anyone think Kubiak is going to make him the starter?
Tebow is a storybook QB
we need a playbook QB.
It was an exciting season, but TT will be a FAILURE as a pocket passer.
He would have FAILED in high school as a pocket passer
he would have FAILED in college as a pocket passer,
and he is going to FAIL in the NFL as a pocket passer, because passing from the pocket does not fit his skill set, does not utilize his strengths and contradicts his obvious instincts.
tebow, for all he is , he is NOT the proto-typical pocket passing NFL QB !
JE says they will make him one, that will be a FAILED attempt!

[Thnikkaman]

tats / schmats, just watch the kid! he throws an NFL quality pass, he reads defenses before and after the snap,
he has poise and presence in the pocket,
makes good reads and good decisions with the ball.
Next year only his second, he will be even better.


Man, if Tebow could only throw passes like this:

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/863492/Dalton.gif

[wayninja]

I love it when stats can't be used to defend an argument the next logical progression is always "well... just LOOK at him!"

LMAO

[MasterShake]

I wouldn't worry too much. I think most Broncos fans (at least I hope anyway) that like Tebow still like the Broncos more. Worst case scenario Tebow either gets beat out in preseason and we move forward with a big shitstorm from the media and the Teboners until he gets traded or cut, and best case scenario he becomes a good enough passer that he compliments our improved rushing attack and we become a good offense.

I don't envy the decisions that EFX have to make, but I know that they are more than capable of making them. I really like Tebow, but if he continues regressing I'm not gonna miss him or the circus that surrounds him because at the end of the day the Broncos organization is still greater than its players to me. I have a feeling Tebow will be fine, though. He seems to have a great work ethic and just needs to get back to basics this offseason. It will work itself out. I'm not going to take a side strongly either way because I don't want to have to defend or denounce Tebow. I will however continue to support my team and those who make the decisions, especially Elway. Things are in good hands.

[Chef Zambini]

Thanks Zambini....I learned a new word in horse-apples.:lol:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Horse+Apple


One thing I'm curious about though, I've seen your concern multiples times with Tebow going to the Philippines....why is that?commitment! while every other NFL QB will be working on his craft, TT wil be back in the philipines performing circumscisions and preaching the gospel.
who is going to tell him he cant?
TEBOW FAILED to improve himself, last summer, I dont see this summer being anything different.

[wayninja]

And Dalton has a playoff victory to his credit to boot....oh wait

Dalton is basically carrying that team though. Everyone knows the Broncos are far more talented on both sides of the ball than the Bengals.

[Chef Zambini]

I wouldn't worry too much. I think most Broncos fans (at least I hope anyway) that like Tebow still like the Broncos more. Worst case scenario Tebow either gets beat out in preseason and we move forward with a big shitstorm from the media and the Teboners until he gets traded or cut, and best case scenario he becomes a good enough passer that he compliments our improved rushing attack and we become a good offense.

I don't envy the decisions that EFX have to make, but I know that they are more than capable of making them. I really like Tebow, but if he continues regressing I'm not gonna miss him or the circus that surrounds him because at the end of the day the Broncos organization is still greater than its players to me. I have a feeling Tebow will be fine, though. He seems to have a great work ethic and just needs to get back to basics this offseason. It will work itself out. I'm not going to take a side strongly either way because I don't want to have to defend or denounce Tebow. I will however continue to support my team and those who make the decisions, especially Elway. Things are in good hands.the BEST case scenario is we trade him to the jags for their FRDPwhile his stock is high.
next year after a dismal season and subsequent benching he wont be worth a plate of horse-apples.

[wayninja]

commitment! while every other NFL QB will be working on his craft, TT wil be back in the philipines performing circumscisions and preaching the gospel.
who is going to tell him he cant?
TEBOW FAILED to improve himself, last summer, I dont see this summer being anything different.

He failed to improve himself? Can you qualify that a bit?

Seems like he won a higher percentage of his games this year than last. Or is this another "Well, just LOOK at him" argument?

[Dreadnought]

I love it when stats can't be used to defend an argument the next logical progression is always "well... just LOOK at him!"

LMAO

Its idiotic. Dalton had an even worse game against the Texans than TT had against the Pats. Dalton had a very nice season, and I think he'll be good, but in no game in 2011 was he as good as TT was against the Steelers. This is a seriously dumb thread. Good grief.

[BroncoNut]

I love it when stats can't be used to defend an argument the next logical progression is always "well... just LOOK at him!"

LMAO

who's defending what here Wayninja? Zam comes here with stats to promote his view of tebow in support of his own ego. Anyone can propose what he does. He's not ballsy at all really. I, for one, just don't buy it from the great Zambini anymore. He's not capable of creative intellectual thouhgt.

[Chef Zambini]

I wouldn't worry too much. I think most Broncos fans (at least I hope anyway) that like Tebow still like the Broncos more. Worst case scenario Tebow either gets beat out in preseason and we move forward with a big shitstorm from the media and the Teboners until he gets traded or cut, and best case scenario he becomes a good enough passer that he compliments our improved rushing attack and we become a good offense.

I don't envy the decisions that EFX have to make, but I know that they are more than capable of making them. I really like Tebow, but if he continues regressing I'm not gonna miss him or the circus that surrounds him because at the end of the day the Broncos organization is still greater than its players to me. I have a feeling Tebow will be fine, though. He seems to have a great work ethic and just needs to get back to basics this offseason. It will work itself out. I'm not going to take a side strongly either way because I don't want to have to defend or denounce Tebow. I will however continue to support my team and those who make the decisions, especially Elway. Things are in good hands.
ah, there in lies the problem o' shake-master !
tebow is a PR decision, not a football decision.

[Nomad]

the BEST case scenario is we trade him to the jags for their FRDPwhile his stock is high.
next year after a dismal season and subsequent benching he wont be worth a plate of horse-apples.

I wonder what the Jags think of that because they haven't denounced interest. This theory is gaining amongst the talking heads.

[Chef Zambini]

staTS, YOU WANT STATS, after I post his comp %
his QBR
his td to int ratio, his third down stats, after anyone posts all thos stats that indicate tebow as one of the worst QBs in the NFL' you and other will just say all he does is win
winning is the only stat that matters!
ELWAY tried to refer to tebows stats and he got boo'e off the stage!
I always say stats/shmatz, i would be a hypocrit to be posting stats.
I see what tebow is, he is NOT a prototypical NFL QB his instincts and skill set work against that !
JE says they will make him a pocket passer, thats an exercise in futility.

[ShooterJM]

Rule #1: Never trust a ginger, they don't have souls.

[claymore]

Its idiotic. Dalton had an even worse game against the Texans than TT had against the Pats. Dalton had a very nice season, and I think he'll be good, but in no game in 2011 was he as good as TT was against the Steelers. This is a seriously dumb thread. Good grief.

One game he averages 30 yards per pass, the next game he has like 10 yards in the first half.

I dont think we can consistantly win with a guy like Tebow.

[Thnikkaman]

JE says they will make him a pocket passer, thats an exercise in futility.

Kind of like asking you to take the time to proof read your posts? Can we trade you to another forum? Your passion bucket is full, but your execution stinks.

[claymore]

staTS, YOU WANT STATS, after I post his comp %
his QBR
his td to int ratio, his third down stats, after anyone posts all thos stats that indicate tebow as one of the worst QBs in the NFL' you and other will just say all he does is win winning is the only stat that matters!
ELWAY tried to refer to tebows stats and he got boo'e off the stage!
I always say stats/shmatz, i would be a hypocrit to be posting stats.
I see what tebow is, he is NOT a prototypical NFL QB his instincts and skill set work against that !
JE says they will make him a pocket passer, thats an exercise in futility.They said the same thing about Orton. Now they hate him.

[Nomad]

I wouldn't worry too much. I think most Broncos fans (at least I hope anyway) that like Tebow still like the Broncos more. Worst case scenario Tebow either gets beat out in preseason and we move forward with a big shitstorm from the media and the Teboners until he gets traded or cut, and best case scenario he becomes a good enough passer that he compliments our improved rushing attack and we become a good offense.

I don't envy the decisions that EFX have to make, but I know that they are more than capable of making them. I really like Tebow, but if he continues regressing I'm not gonna miss him or the circus that surrounds him because at the end of the day the Broncos organization is still greater than its players to me. I have a feeling Tebow will be fine, though. He seems to have a great work ethic and just needs to get back to basics this offseason. It will work itself out. I'm not going to take a side strongly either way because I don't want to have to defend or denounce Tebow. I will however continue to support my team and those who make the decisions, especially Elway. Things are in good hands.

All we have is time to guess, speculate, and wonder what's going to happen. We all hope for the best that Tebow becomes a great QB, but there are many options the BRONCOS could take regardless of what they say. It'll be an interesting offseason because as of now, the BRONCOS are drama free and I assume just focused on building this team to be better.

[Joel]

staTS, YOU WANT STATS, after I post his comp %
Irrelevant; as long as his TD%, Int% and YPA are good I couldn't care less if his completion percentage were 10.

his QBR
If you mean his PASSER Rating, when you posted his completion percentage you basically did post that, because the latter is essentially a function of the former (which is the main thing wrong with it.)

his td to int ratio
His TD to Int ratio is 2, not 1, as you incorrectly claimed. It drops to 1.5 if we count his rushing TDs and fumbles, but what he does as a runner, as we're so often reminded, is immaterial to his PASSING.

his third down stats
That's a stat that both isn't good and actually matters; it must improve. Of course, most QBs have low third down stats when they're usually in 3rd and 7 because their OC insists on running on 75% of first and second downs, defences know it, and their guards can't consistently run OR pass block. Even considering that, his third down stats are bad, so with regard to ONE relevant stat he needs work.

, after anyone posts all thos stats that indicate tebow as one of the worst QBs in the NFL' you and other will just say all he does is win
winning is the only stat that matters!
ELWAY tried to refer to tebows stats and he got boo'e off the stage!
Do you have a link to video of John Elway being booed off the stage at a Broncos press conference?

I always say stats/shmatz, i would be a hypocrit to be posting stats.
I did find it odd that you were going on about stats, yes.

I see what tebow is, he is NOT a prototypical NFL QB his instincts and skill set work against that !
JE says they will make him a pocket passer, thats an exercise in futility.
John Elway has forgotten more about being a successful NFL QB than you AND I will ever know.

[BroncoNut]

If some of my posts in this thread are not addressed, I will be leaving.

[nevcraw]

Oh snap... someone is of his meds again...

[BroncoNut]

Oh snap... someone is of his meds again...

I will not be ignored like this

[catfish]

I will not be ignored like this

Huh, what, did you say something?

[jhildebrand]

If Tebow works with Elway and improved dramatically then we know the lack of an offseason was a legitimate reason.

If he works all off season and still looks about the same....

I still hope the team goes after Weeden.

[rationalfan]

one thing i'm not buying: that tebow will improve SO MUCH with a full offseason of team activities.

he'll improve. but the idea suggests that tebow didn't improve last offseason because he didn't work out with the team. yet, we're talking about the hardest working player on the broncos roster. i'm willing to bet my lunch that he worked out with coaches and trainers more than any other player on the broncos roster during the lockout. and i'm certain many of those workouts were with former NFL QBs like zeke bratkowski who instructed his passing technique, footwork, decision making, etc.

granted, he will find a lot of benefit in hearing direction from his own coaches. and there will be upside from being able to work out with his first team receivers. but why are we believing this offseason will be that much different and produce much different results?

of course, i hope i'm wrong about my skepticism.

[The Glue Factory]

TEBOW FAILED to improve himself, last summer, I dont see this summer being anything different.

Big difference between last summer and this is that Tebow was on his own last summer. This summer Elway will be tutoring him. Maybe you missed that small detail. I agree that his 2011 off-season training progrram could have been better coached (self-coaching is rarely more successful than having an expert tutor you.) I'd like to see a vast improvement in Tebow turning into Young, Rothlesberger, etc. but if he continues to play the way he did this year, he should be traded/cut for someone that can.

In the end haters gonna hate.

[The Glue Factory]

i'm willing to bet my lunch that he worked out with coaches and trainers more than any other player on the broncos roster during the lockout. and i'm certain many of those workouts were with former NFL QBs like zeke bratkowski who instructed his passing technique, footwork, decision making, etc.

Got any articles to support that? The only news I heard was he was working on his own and no other names were included. If Tebow did find trainers and coaches to work with I'm sure it would have been reported which individuals or organizations were involved.

Given that he didn't show much improvement, I think it's safe to assume he was working solo on his off-season improvement program. I can't wait to see what he's like in 9 months as we will have likely have a definitive direction at QB one way or the other.

[BroncoJoe]

Eh - Zam is just trying to increase his post count at this site.

[NightTerror218]

Chef keep flapping those lips about Tebow. Nothing is going to happen with him this year unless there is a blockbuster trade for Luck that happens due to him refusing to sign with Indy.

[Chef Zambini]

He failed to improve himself? Can you qualify that a bit?

Seems like he won a higher percentage of his games this year than last. Or is this another "Well, just LOOK at him" argument?did he improve his pocket presence/
did he improve his skill at operating an offense under center.
is he more accomplished at reading defenses.
did he improve his mechanics / throwing motion/ footwork/ release
di he improve his accuracy as a passer/
Did he dig into the play-book/
all indications are NO he did not, he was considerd the fourth best QB in camp behind weber !
He was handed the job as a PR nove, not a football decision.
he didnt put in the work, regardless of what some plaque on a wall in florida might say !
he had 6 MILL in the bank, did he HIRE a pro to help him with his mechanics and skill set, LIKE QUINN DID ?
like every rookie NFL QB wanna be did, during the lock-out/
NO he did not ! he regressed from his rookie year, because god love him as a human being he was COMMITED TO OTHER THINGS more importatnt than football !

[Krugan]

I think if you look at tebow objectively, you can see there was improvement all season long, all be it inconsistant at times.

Im not sure where the idea that NEVER comes from...

[BroncoNut]

one thing i'm not buying: that tebow will improve SO MUCH with a full offseason of team activities.

he'll improve. but the idea suggests that tebow didn't improve last offseason because he didn't work out with the team. yet, we're talking about the hardest working player on the broncos roster. i'm willing to bet my lunch that he worked out with coaches and trainers more than any other player on the broncos roster during the lockout. and i'm certain many of those workouts were with former NFL QBs like zeke bratkowski who instructed his passing technique, footwork, decision making, etc.

granted, he will find a lot of benefit in hearing direction from his own coaches. and there will be upside from being able to work out with his first team receivers. but why are we believing this offseason will be that much different and produce much different results?

of course, i hope i'm wrong about my skepticism.



I think he will become a right handed passer

[weazel]

I think the excuse TT has is going from the Florida system...to sitting around learning McD's system...to being thrust into McCoy's system. If he hasnt had an off-season to do something, then adjusting is that thing. I see Elway working with him in the off-season and this is his one shot to prove everyone wrong. He'll either improve and be capable of handling a more traditional NFL offense...or he'll fail and we'll be drafting a QB in 2013

you pretty much summed it up in one paragraph...

season's over, bring on the draft!

[BroncoStud]

This thread was funny stuff. If nothing else Tebow inspires passionate debate.

I wonder who we will sign/draft to back him up...

[vettesplus]

you just hate tebow and you are stoopid and your breah smells like horse-apples !
JE was the greatest QB of all time, just look at all the QBs he has tutered to become great NFL QBs! so what if TT hasnt played NFL style QB and has been something completely different as a QB his entire football life?
he works harder than any human being and your are a pile of horse-apples!
defenses dont know how to defend against tebow
the players all love tebow. did you hear ther comments about tebow as the starter NEXT season?
with our smothering defense we just need to continue to be the best running attack in the NFL, so what if JE said he is going to work on making TT a pocket passer and diminish his threat as a runner, you sir, have a cranium filled with horse-apples.
I love tebow and god loves tebow so he will be great and just like moses lead us to the land of milk and honey while your plate is full of, you guessed it, horse-apples !

who did je tuter to become a "GREAT" nfl qb?????

[weazel]

This thread was funny stuff. If nothing else Tebow inspires passionate debate.

I wonder who we will sign/draft to back him up...

I know he's old as dirt but I like Batch

[BroncoNut]

This thread was funny stuff. If nothing else Tebow inspires passionate debate.

I wonder who we will sign/draft to back him up...

maybe noone. maybe stick with Quinn.

[BroncoNut]

I know he's old as dirt but I like Batch

I say we get after Patrick Ramsey wherever he is. :rolleyes:

[wayninja]

I know he's old as dirt but I like Batch

What about Kitna? Old as dirt too and likely to end his career, but I wouldn't mind seeing him in camp. Think the younger guys could learn a lot.

[weazel]

Im not saying I think Batch is awesome and we need him, but I think if they need a veteran backup that can actually play, he is as good as any other one out there.

[BroncoNut]

Im not saying I think Batch is awesome and we need him, but I think if they need a veteran backup that can actually play, he is as good as any other one out there.

we know what you said. You can't take it back now no matter how you try to spin it loser

[jhildebrand]

See if you can pry D Dixon from the Steelers.

[VonSackemMiller]

I dont know how many times you can argue the same shit, I think ill be taking a break from this site untill after the draft. If this is going to be the topic for the next few months then this site is going to be DRY as hell and weak.

[Dapper Dan]

Idk what we're talking about, but..

I say Mark Brunell.

[The Glue Factory]

I say Mark Brunell.



If Steve DeBerg was good enough to help Elway transition to the NFL...

[wayninja]

did he improve his pocket presence/ Yes
did he improve his skill at operating an offense under center Yes
is he more accomplished at reading defenses. Yes
did he improve his mechanics / throwing motion/ footwork/ release Yes
di he improve his accuracy as a passer/Yes
Did he dig into the play-book/ Did he do what???
all indications are NO he did not, he was considerd the fourth best QB in camp behind weber !
He was handed the job as a PR nove, not a football decision.
he didnt put in the work, regardless of what some plaque on a wall in florida might say !
he had 6 MILL in the bank, did he HIRE a pro to help him with his mechanics and skill set, LIKE QUINN DID ?
like every rookie NFL QB wanna be did, during the lock-out/
NO he did not ! he regressed from his rookie year, because god love him as a human being he was COMMITED TO OTHER THINGS more importatnt than football !

Maybe I'm confused. Are you asking if he improved via the lockout offseason or during the regular season?

[turftoad]

I dont know how many times you can argue the same shit, I think ill be taking a break from this site untill after the draft. If this is going to be the topic for the next few months then this site is going to be DRY as hell and weak.

See ya. :salute:

[hamrob]

Zam, Zam, Zam!

Tebow was 8-5 this year, with a playoff win where he threw for 300 yds and 2 tds...while running for 50 yds and another td.

All that....after we were sitting around here talking about whether we would be drafting Luck in the offseason.

Does he have to improve? Yes. Can he improve? Yes. Will he ever be Tom Brady? No. Can he be a guy who runs for 600 yds with 7-8 td's and throws for 3,500 yds and 20-25 tds. Yes, I think so.

Would I take Tebow over both Newton and TCU Dalton...Yes! Dalton is only as good as A.J. Green. Newton is a punk...and I believe he will show his true colors sooner than later.

I believe the best 3 QB's to be drafted the last 2yrs are:

Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Ryan Mallet

I think you can add Andrew Luck to this list and question RG III. He's a good kid, but he is 6'0" tall and somewhat overrated in my book.

We'll have to wait and see. I just hope folks don't purposely root against Tebow...just because he doesn't fit the Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers mold.

[gatorpower]

Oh wow.

I live in Florida. I was very privileged to know that Dan Marino was the "absolute, best, most awesome" quarterback in the NFL while I was going through junior high, high school and college. Dolphin fans always GOT me with that bit of information. They won those arguments while I was following the Buccaneers.

I find those arguments kind of stupid. I still do. You become a fan of a TEAM to watch your TEAM have success. To watch the TEAM win football games.

In 17 or 18 seasons, the Dolphins went to the super bowl with Marino once (losing it), went to the conference championship game three times (losing twice), went to the divisional round eight times (losing 5 times), went to the wildcard round seven times (losing 4) and missed the playoffs entirely seven years.

His record was 8-10 in the playoffs and in all his seasons playing, made it past THIS weekend, the 2nd round THREE times. Hearing from all my friends that the Dolphins had the 'best quarterback in the NFL' got really pathetic when they kept on losing in the playoffs. I don't want the best quarterback. Take the best quarterback. I want the best TEAM. Give me a TEAM that can win a superbowl.

I can promise you that there have been some superbowl winning QBs who were mediocre at best and more conference champion QBs who were worse than them, but they made it there. Isnt' that the point of football? Winning? Not having the prettiest team?