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elsid13
03-02-2009, 08:13 PM
I read this article before I think it important for everyone to understand what culture that McDaniels comes from. This speaks to many reasons about **** up this weakend and why either McDaniels changes a little or it over for Cutler in Denver.

The Patriots Story, Part One: Selfless

09:22 AM EST on Sunday, January 27, 2008
http://www.projo.com/patriots/conten....5a05bd1d.html
By SHALISE MANZA YOUNG
Journal Sports Writer

It was thought that the salary-cap rule would mean the end of dynasties in the NFL. But the Pats have built one anyway. This three-part series examines how they've done it. Find the second and third parts Monday and Tuesday on projo.com.

FOXBORO - On his first day of training camp with his new team, Adalius Thomas saw it firsthand.

New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick took star quarterback Tom Brady to task for a mistake on the field, undressing the two-time Super Bowl MVP in full view of his teammates.

"It kind of caught me off-guard, because Tom was the first person that got blasted," Thomas recalled. "So it was like, 'OK, he's talking to Tom, so what does that mean for everyone else?' It definitely set the tone for me."

More often than not in a sporting landscape where players earn more than coaches and making the play that gets you on the daily highlight shows is of the utmost, the notion of team success takes a backseat to ensuring your play gets you a big contract.

But since taking over as head coach in New England before the 2000 season, Belichick has created an atmosphere wherein no single player, no position, no unit, even no coach, is greater than the team.

"Belichick does not allow it," Junior Seau says.

Under Pete Carroll, who preceded Belichick with the Patriots, the players ran the team, and that style of being a friend to his players before being an authority did not pan out.

So Belichick, who had learned during his years with the New York Giants that no player should ever receive special treatment regardless of his star status, came in and changed things. And he brought in players who understood both his playing system and expectations to guide the transition: Otis Smith and Bobby Hamilton his first year, and Anthony Pleasant and Bryan Cox the next.

None were top-notch free agents, but all had played for Belichick in the past.

"I think it was key that he brought in 'his guys,' guys that were familiar with him as a coach, who had played for him at other stops and who knew what he wanted as a coach," says Christopher Price, author of "The Blueprint: How the New England Patriots Beat the System to Create the Last Great NFL Superpower."

"Even the guys who were here (in New England) in 1996, who knew Belichick as an assistant under Bill Parcells, the (Tedy) Bruschis, the Ty Laws, even Lawyer Milloy. The key was getting guys who knew Belichick and who knew the system."

Once that structure was in place, once players understood that sacrificing the good of the team for personal gain was not to be tolerated - and once New England started having success - it became stronger and self-renewing.

And once that happened, it made it easier for Belichick and vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli to take chances, bringing in players perceived as malcontents with other teams, like Corey Dillon and Randy Moss. Dillon had few issues during his tenure with New England and was able to add a Super Bowl title to his statistically-impressive resume; by all accounts Moss fell immediately into line and is in a position to get the one thing missing from his Hall of Fame career.

"Whenever you have a leader such as Belichick and you have enough veterans that have been around his teachings, they breathe it, and when they start breathing it around the locker room, it's contagious," says Seau.

Seau already had 16 NFL seasons under his belt when he arrived in Foxboro last year and had heard about New England from his former teammate and friend, Rodney Harrison. But when he arrived, he saw for himself how ingrained the team-first notion is in Foxboro.

"In any business, in order to assert your personality, your identity, you want to make sure that you have a nucleus that carry it through," Seau said.

Despite being a 12-time Pro Bowler, in New England Seau simply does his job, the basic-yet-unchanging expectation of all Patriots players.

"With all of the veteran players that have been in the league for a while and have been around here, they lead by example, and that's what you see," second-year linebacker Pierre Woods said. "Nobody really has a rah-rah attitude. You just learn from them, the way they carry themselves."

For the most part, Patriots players say there isn't really a lecture given on The Patriot Way that comes when you get your playbook. It is learned through observation, and it is enforced daily by Belichick.

"It starts from the top, with Bill, and the way he addresses us and the way he coaches us," says Larry Izzo. "Every single guy in the locker room realizes that he is not an individual and I think it's sort of an inbred culture. But it all starts at the top, whether it's (owner Robert) Kraft, Pioli, Belichick, positional coaches…everybody preaches that the sum is greater than the individual parts."

As Thomas saw months ago, no one is above being called out for making a mistake. But not every player can handle that type of scrutiny and, at times, embarrassment. So Belichick and Pioli seek out players who are unselfish by nature; frequently, Belichick will say of one of his players that "football is important to him." Because if playing - and winning - is a priority, it makes it easier to abide by the rules; not following them could lead to a player searching for a new team.

"It starts with Bill, and he only brings in the players he thinks are going to work like that, and the players enforce it," said Smith. "They can want it to be any way they want, but if you don't have the players that will enforce it, it won't happen."

Special-teams captain Izzo, who has been with the Patriots since 2001, isn't a marquee guy. But to be in the Pats' locker room, he says, no one is.

"The guys that we do have that people would perceive to be big-name players all buy into that too," he said. "Tom Brady is the most humble guy in the world. He doesn't walk around here like he's 'Tom Brady,' he walks around here like he's any other guy.

"When other players see that, I think they follow his lead and understand that it's not about them. It's about the team."

A team that, one week from today, will try for its fourth Super Bowl this decade

getlynched47
03-02-2009, 08:14 PM
The Patriot way is full of shit.........it's just videotapes, camcorders, and sleeveless hoodies

elsid13
03-02-2009, 08:15 PM
This is the key that McDaniels is missing right now:

"Once that structure was in place, once players understood that sacrificing the good of the team for personal gain was not to be tolerated - and once New England started having success - it became stronger and self-renewing

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 08:25 PM
Luv it.

Hopefully McDaniels follows it, and there will be no "hand holding" that Shanahan did, which bred soft teams year after year after year.

I think Cutler can fall in line with that, but I'm a little curious how his glass ego is going to work when it first happens. It might be a little shocking to have a guy that knows what he's doing actually challenge him.

red98
03-02-2009, 08:44 PM
Good article but this part made me laugh:


So Belichick, who had learned during his years with the New York Giants that no player should ever receive special treatment regardless of his star status

WARHORSE
03-02-2009, 08:49 PM
Well, part of McDaniels job is to keep the Broncos in a positive light. He blew it, and its time to undress him in front of the nation.


Way to go doofus.

jrelway
03-02-2009, 08:51 PM
yuck.

Rex
03-02-2009, 08:51 PM
The Patriot way is full of shit.........it's just videotapes, camcorders, and sleeveless hoodies

and Lombardi trophies.

BroncoWave
03-02-2009, 08:51 PM
The Patriot way is full of shit.........it's just videotapes, camcorders, and sleeveless hoodies

I'm sorry but that's a load of crap. Even after they got caught and quit doing it they still went 18-1 and 11-5. Their success was not merely a product of videotapes. You HAVE to have good players and a good system to win 3 SB's. The videotape excuse is just a copout by people who hate the Pats IMO.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 08:52 PM
Well, part of McDaniels job is to keep the Broncos in a positive light. He blew it, and its time to undress him in front of the nation.


Way to go doofus.

Yea. Jay Cutler sure didn't help that situation by going and crying to the media.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 08:53 PM
I'm sorry but that's a load of crap. Even after they got caught and quit doing it they still went 18-1 and 11-5. Their success was not merely a product of videotapes. You HAVE to have good players and a good system to win 3 SB's. The videotape excuse is just a copout by people who hate the Pats IMO.

Agreed. Shanahan himself said that it was no big deal. I don't understand why someone would want to devalue the Broncos SuperBowl wins by accusing another team of allout "cheating".

Denver Native (Carol)
03-02-2009, 08:54 PM
That would be great if McD was still in New England, but he is now the coach of the Denver Broncos. Each NFL team has their own "mold", and he needs to leave the mold of the Patriots, and step into the mold of the Broncos, in regards to certain things. I was very surprised that you did not see him at all on tv when the new FA's arrived in Denver. In the past, you would always see Mike on tv with them, and then, of course, the Bronco fans somewhat became acquainted with them.

elsid13
03-02-2009, 08:56 PM
There is no way I could ever work for them. I refuse to be cog in the machine and only do what my bosses tells me to do exactly to the letter.

getlynched47
03-02-2009, 08:56 PM
I'm sorry but that's a load of crap. Even after they got caught and quit doing it they still went 18-1 and 11-5. Their success was not merely a product of videotapes. You HAVE to have good players and a good system to win 3 SB's. The videotape excuse is just a copout by people who hate the Pats IMO.

/sarcasm buddy ;)

BroncoWave
03-02-2009, 08:57 PM
That would be great if McD was still in New England, but he is now the coach of the Denver Broncos. Each NFL team has their own "mold", and he needs to leave the mold of the Patriots, and step into the mold of the Broncos, in regards to certain things. I was very surprised that you did not see him at all on tv when the new FA's arrived in Denver. In the past, you would always see Mike on tv with them, and then, of course, the Bronco fans somewhat became acquainted with them.

The mold of the Broncos was Mike Shanahan. He is gone now. It's time for McDaniels to do his thing. If he thinks that doing things the "Patriot Way" is best for the Broncos, then that's what he should do. If it works, great, if not we find someone else.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 08:59 PM
There is no way I could ever work for them. I refuse to be cog in the machine and only do what my bosses tells me to do exactly to the letter.

You're missing the bigger picture, IMHO. They want players who are going to do their job out on the field. "Listen, and do your job."

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 09:01 PM
You're missing the bigger picture, IMHO. They want players who are going to do their job out on the field. "Listen, and do your job."

Dawkins exemplifies this. Bailey exemplifies it. The rest will follow. They are instilling it on defense.

Now, if we can get the offensive players to buy in...:tsk:

topscribe
03-02-2009, 09:10 PM
Yea. Jay Cutler sure didn't help that situation by going and crying to the media.

Cutler did not go to the media. The media went to him.

-----

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 09:12 PM
Cutler did not go to the media. The media went to him.

-----

Then you be a professional about it, and you don't comment until you've heard the full story. You don't use it as an excuse to one up the other party involved.

I loved his, "I heard I'm still on the block!!". LMAO Where did he pull that one out?

getlynched47
03-02-2009, 09:16 PM
I loved his, "I heard I'm still on the block!!". LMAO Where did he pull that one out?

Out of his ass :coffee:

elsid13
03-02-2009, 09:20 PM
You're missing the bigger picture, IMHO. They want players who are going to do their job out on the field. "Listen, and do your job."


No I am not, they are looking for guy to do thier job but nothing but thier jobs even when the see an opperunity to make the things better. It I am charge you do only the things that I tell you to do. It appears to be very rigid industrial style system. And you know what most successfully companies these day don't run that way.

These type of system work great if the folks at tops plans works out perfectly, but when doesn't you go 16 and 1.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 09:22 PM
you don't comment until you've heard the full story.

Well now, isn't that ironic? That seems all that has been happening here . . .

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silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 09:25 PM
No I am not, they are looking for guy to do thier job but nothing but thier jobs even when the see an opperunity to make the things better. It I am charge you do only the things that I tell you to do. It appears to be very rigid industrial style system. And you know what most successfully companies these day don't run that way.

These type of system work great if the folks at tops plans works out perfectly, but when doesn't you go 16 and 1.

I disagree. They want guys who are disciplined, and do what their told. And nowhere in that article says they don't like guys who try and make a situation better. They are simply guys that don't take any chit from players, are demanding, and the results speak for themselves.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 09:26 PM
Well now, isn't that ironic? That seems all that has been happening here . . .

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Yes. from 100% of the posters posting on this board, including myself, and you.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 09:31 PM
Yes. from 100% of the posters posting on this board, including myself, and you.

Oh really? So I say you haven't been in his shoes, and that makes me guilty?
No, as a matter of fact, I have been trying to say you don't know the whole
story, so you should not judge. Guess you missed that, even though I have
posted it again and again?

No, if I refuse to go along with bashing a player, then I'm under attack. That
is the way it has been ever since Plummer. The idea is to form a lynching mob
and hang him high as we can. If I object to that, I am an evil presence, I guess.

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TXBRONC
03-02-2009, 09:38 PM
Oh really? So I say you haven't been in his shoes, and that makes me guilty?
No, as a matter of fact, I have been trying to say you don't know the whole
story, so you should not judge. Guess you missed that, even though I have
posted it again and again?

No, if I refuse to go along with bashing a player, then I'm under attack. That
is the way it has been ever since Plummer. The idea is to form a lynching mob
and hang him high as we can. If I object to that, I am an evil presence, I guess.

-----

Sometimes people are clueless.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 09:39 PM
Sometimes people are clueless.

Ah, but they know all about personal attacks, don't they? :coffee:

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BroncoWave
03-02-2009, 09:39 PM
Cutler did not go to the media. The media went to him.

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Just because the media went to him doesn't mean that he had to tell them anything. All he had to do was not comment.


Well now, isn't that ironic? That seems all that has been happening here . . .

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Yes, that's usually how it works on a message board. The only difference is, what we say doesn't affect the Broncos. What Jay Cutler says does, and thus, he should be held to a higher standard.


Oh really? So I say you haven't been in his shoes, and that makes me guilty?
No, as a matter of fact, I have been trying to say you don't know the whole
story, so you should not judge. Guess you missed that, even though I have
posted it again and again?

No, if I refuse to go along with bashing a player, then I'm under attack. That
is the way it has been ever since Plummer. The idea is to form a lynching mob
and hang him high as we can. If I object to that, I am an evil presence, I guess.

-----

So Cutler is immune to criticism then? When you do something stupid you get criticized. Other than maybe a small handfull, none of us hate Cutler and are just bashing him for no reason. We just feel that his comments made this situation even worse and he deserves criticism.

If we object to what Cutler did and feel that he deserves criticism, we are evil presences, I guess.

lex
03-02-2009, 09:41 PM
We need to get rid of this McDaniels and soon.

skycoyote
03-02-2009, 09:42 PM
How can you get any respect when your name is McDummy? A 32 yr old drill sergeant just aint gonna hunt in Denver.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 09:43 PM
Oh really? So I say you haven't been in his shoes, and that makes me guilty?

Of "commenting before you've heard the entire story", like you said? Absolutely. I didn't comment at all about being in Cutler's shoes. Not sure where that came from.



No, as a matter of fact, I have been trying to say you don't know the whole
story, so you should not judge. Guess you missed that, even though I have
posted it again and again?


You mean, like you "judging" McDaniels? We're both guilty Tops. Deal with it.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-02-2009, 09:43 PM
Just because the media went to him doesn't mean that he had to tell them anything. All he had to do was not comment.



Yes, that's usually how it works on a message board. The only difference is, what we say doesn't affect the Broncos. What Jay Cutler says does, and thus, he should be held to a higher standard.



So Cutler is immune to criticism then? When you do something stupid you get criticized. Other than maybe a small handfull, none of us hate Cutler and are just bashing him for no reason. We just feel that his comments made this situation even worse and he deserves criticism.

If we object to what Cutler did and feel that he deserves criticism, we are evil presences, I guess.

Cutler is not immune to criticism, and has gotten his share when he messes up in a game. However, in this situation, Cutler did not start it, nor did he cause it. By giving Cutler criticism as to how he reacted, is like a personal foul - 99% of the time, the player who retaliates receives the foul, rather than the person who threw the first punch.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 09:43 PM
Sometimes people are clueless.

There's the one and only TXBRONC. Doing what he does best!!

:listen:

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Cutler is not immune to criticism, and has gotten his share when he messes up in a game. However, in this situation, Cutler did not start it, nor did he cause it. By giving Cutler criticism as to how he reacted, is like a personal foul - 99% of the time, the player who retaliates receives the foul, rather than the person who threw the first punch.

I'll agree to disagree with this post.

He didn't retaliate to anything. The Broncos fielded two phone calls. They said no. Cutler is still a Bronco.

Cutler not having the ability to say, "no comment," has really created this mess. And then his further temper tantrum has really made it worse.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Just because the media went to him doesn't mean that he had to tell them anything. All he had to do was not comment.



Yes, that's usually how it works on a message board. The only difference is, what we say doesn't affect the Broncos. What Jay Cutler says does, and thus, he should be held to a higher standard.



So Cutler is immune to criticism then? When you do something stupid you get criticized. Other than maybe a small handfull, none of us hate Cutler and are just bashing him for no reason. We just feel that his comments made this situation even worse and he deserves criticism.

If we object to what Cutler did and feel that he deserves criticism, we are evil presences, I guess.

That's the idea. Cutler should do it just exactly the way you would do it. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/wink-2.gif

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MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 09:46 PM
That's the idea. Cutler should do it just exactly the way you would do it. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/wink-2.gif

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No, Cutler should do it how most other football players do it, and just shut up.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-02-2009, 09:48 PM
I'll agree to disagree with this post.

He didn't retaliate to anything. The Broncos fielded two phone calls. They said no. Cutler is still a Bronco.

Cutler not having the ability to say, "no comment," has really created this mess. And then his further temper tantrum has really made it worse.

If you listen to many of the sports commentators, both national and local, they feel, in so many words, that McD is not telling the truth. Just like Mort said - "why would Tampa Bay, out of the clear blue, call McD and ask him if he might be interested in trading Jay Cutler".

topscribe
03-02-2009, 09:51 PM
Of "commenting before you've heard the entire story", like you said? Absolutely. I didn't comment at all about being in Cutler's shoes. Not sure where that came from.





You mean, like you "judging" McDaniels? We're both guilty Tops. Deal with it.

Except that I have been in McDaniel's shoes more than you've been in Cutler's.
I have been in management, supervised people. I have people skills. I know to
communicate with them . . . when and how. McDaniels is showing none of
that, so far. It would have been the first thing I looked for, had I been the
interviewer. So I have a much more solid foundation for "judging" McDaniels.

I don't Cutler. And neither do you. Or anybody else here. Except that I know
you do not handle an emotional 25-year-old the same way you would, say, a
Champ Bailey. I do know that. It is apparent McDaniels yet has that to learn.

-----

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 09:51 PM
If you listen to many of the sports commentators, both national and local, they feel, in so many words, that McD is not telling the truth. Just like Mort said - "why would Tampa Bay, out of the clear blue, call McD and ask him if he might be interested in trading Jay Cutler".

Because they like Jay Cutler, and know McDaniels might be vulnerable. Sound theory.

Ask yourself this:

Why would Bill Belichick turn down a deal involving a first round pick, and possibly a third, for a deal that involved ONLY a second round pick. There is no way Belichick turned that deal down. Not one bit.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 09:51 PM
Just like Mort said - "why would Tampa Bay, out of the clear blue, call McD and ask him if he might be interested in trading Jay Cutler".

That's assumption.

Here's another assumption. Maybe Tampa, who's looking for a QB, called McD and asked him, "hey, would you like to work with your boy Cassel again? We're looking at making a play for him, and was wondering if there was any interest on your part in a deal for him and Cutler?"

That's a perfectly legitimate assumption as well, that people are completely overlooking?

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 09:51 PM
Except that I have been in McDaniel's shoes more than you've been in Cutler's.
I have been in management, supervised people. I have people skills. I know to
communicate with them . . . when and how. McDaniels is showing none of
that, so far. It would have been the first thing I looked for, had I been the
interviewer. So I have a much more solid foundation for "judging" McDaniels.

I don't Cutler. And neither do you. Or anybody else here. Except that I know
you do not handle an emotional 25-year-old the same way you would, say, a
Champ Bailey. I do know that. It is apparent McDaniels yet has that to learn.

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Ladies and gentlemen, Red Miller.

broncohead
03-02-2009, 09:52 PM
I'll agree to disagree with this post.

He didn't retaliate to anything. The Broncos fielded two phone calls. They said no. Cutler is still a Bronco.

Cutler not having the ability to say, "no comment," has really created this mess. And then his further temper tantrum has really made it worse.

McD wanted the trade but Xanders or Bowlen said no. It was more then just fielding the calls.

TXBRONC
03-02-2009, 09:52 PM
Ah, but they know all about personal attacks, don't they? :coffee:

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Yep.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 09:52 PM
No, Cutler should do it how most other football players do it, and just shut up.

And maybe he should not . . .

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MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 09:53 PM
McD wanted the trade but Xanders or Bowlen said no. It was more then just fielding the calls.

According to?

The leak is coming from the Patriots, not Denver. Come on man, the source for Mort's report is from New England. That's the same dumb report that said Belichick nixed a deal for a first round pick in favor of a deal for a second round pick.

It's utter lunacy.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 09:54 PM
And maybe he should not . . .

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Like I said...then he can spout his mouth in another town, for another team.

BroncoWave
03-02-2009, 09:55 PM
Except that I have been in McDaniel's shoes more than you've been in Cutler's.
I have been in management, supervised people. I have people skills. I know to
communicate with them . . . when and how. McDaniels is showing none of
that, so far. It would have been the first thing I looked for, had I been the
interviewer. So I have a much more solid foundation for "judging" McDaniels.

I don't Cutler. And neither do you. Or anybody else here. Except that I know
you do not handle an emotional 25-year-old the same way you would, say, a
Champ Bailey. I do know that. It is apparent McDaniels yet has that to learn.

-----

Oh really? Which NFL team did you coach?

Lonestar
03-02-2009, 09:55 PM
The mold of the Broncos was Mike Shanahan. He is gone now. It's time for McDaniels to do his thing. If he thinks that doing things the "Patriot Way" is best for the Broncos, then that's what he should do. If it works, great, if not we find someone else.

I'm also guessing that this was discussed in the hiring interviews and one of the reason he got hired..

Mc Kids way or the hi way.. works for me..

last time time I looked it was the Denver Broncos not the Jay Cutlers or the Denver Bronco..

It is a team game , like it or ask for your release or a trade..

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 09:56 PM
Except that I have been in McDaniel's shoes more than you've been in Cutler's.
I have been in management, supervised people. I have people skills. I know to
communicate with them . . . when and how. McDaniels is showing none of
that, so far. It would have been the first thing I looked for, had I been the
interviewer. So I have a much more solid foundation for "judging" McDaniels.


Probably more then me, yea. But I work with athletes everyday. I'm a high school coach that has many affiliates with Division 1 colleges and camps. I manage and supervise people too. I have people skills. I'm not the one assuming something here, and then trying to justify my asssumption by saying 'it's ok'.

I know I'm assuming and judging the situation. The question is, do you?

And I completely do not agree with you feeling like it's ok for you to "judge McDaniels", but nobody can "judge Cutler because they haven't been in his shoes..." That's absurd.



I don't Cutler. And neither do you. Or anybody else here. Except that I know
you do not handle an emotional 25-year-old the same way you would, say, a
Champ Bailey. I do know that. It is apparent McDaniels yet has that to learn.

-----

You also don't completely turn a blind eye to the way he's acting, especially if he's supposed to be a professional, and especially since it isn't the first time he's acted in that manner.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 09:56 PM
Like I said...then he can spout his mouth in another town, for another team.

Or, like I said, you can go root for another team. You don't own this one. :noidea:

I don't mind Cuter's being here and saying what he has said. You do. So I
guess we cancel each other out, don't we?

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jrelway
03-02-2009, 09:57 PM
only if we hired raheem morris.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 09:58 PM
Or, like I said, you can go root for another team. You don't own this one. :noidea:

I don't mind Cuter's being here and saying what he has said. You do. So I
guess we cancel each other out, don't we?

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WTF?

Neither do you. Your way or the highway, and you don't own the damn team.

This has nothing to do with me, and your the one complaining about people being personal. Get over yourself.

If he wants to spout his mouth, he can do it some where else. Its clear that McDaniels isn't going to deal with it, and I commend him for it.

You know what happens in New England? They shut the **** up. And you know what else happens in New England? They win ******* championships.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 10:01 PM
Probably more then me, yea. But I work with athletes everyday. I'm a high school coach that has many affiliates with Division 1 colleges and camps. I manage and supervise people too. I have people skills. I'm not the one assuming something here, and then trying to justify my asssumption by saying 'it's ok'.

I know I'm assuming and judging the situation. The question is, do you?

And I completely do not agree with you feeling like it's ok for you to "judge McDaniels", but nobody can "judge Cutler because they haven't been in his shoes..." That's absurd.

It is absurd that I can judge McDaniels more than you can judge Cutler? You
coach high school kids. I taught high school kids. You have never been a
professional quarterback. I have at least been a manager, a supervisor, not
to mention a postgraduate education in psychology. So why is that absurd?
Because you say so?


You also don't completely turn a blind eye to the way he's acting, especially if he's supposed to be a professional, and especially since it isn't the first time he's acted in that manner.


Acted like what? Told it like it is? As I said, I can identify because I share that
same specific characteristic. I say it, and my recipients can take it or leave it.
It is called "brutal honesty." Some people--maybe most people--don't like it.
I have no problem with it. :whoknows:

-----

BroncoWave
03-02-2009, 10:02 PM
WTF?

Neither do you. Your way or the highway, and you don't own the damn team.

This has nothing to do with me, and your the one complaining about people being personal. Get over yourself.

If he wants to spout his mouth, he can do it some where else. Its clear that McDaniels isn't going to deal with it, and I commend him for it.

You know what happens in New England? They shut the **** up. And you know what else happens in New England? They win ******* championships.

:worship: Preach it, brother, preach it! :worship:

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:03 PM
It is absurd that I can judge McDaniels more than you can judge Cutler? You
coach high school kids. I taught high school kids. You have never been a
professional quarterback. I have at least been a manager, a supervisor, not
to mention a postgraduate education in psychology. So why is that absurd?
Because you say so?

Keep making it personal. And keep making absurd assumptions.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 10:03 PM
WTF?

Neither do you. Your way or the highway, and you don't own the damn team.

This has nothing to do with me, and your the one complaining about people being personal. Get over yourself.

If he wants to spout his mouth, he can do it some where else. Its clear that McDaniels isn't going to deal with it, and I commend him for it.

You know what happens in New England? They shut the **** up. And you know what else happens in New England? They win ******* championships.

Or if he wants to do it, he can do it here, and you can go somewhere else.

It works two ways.

So, get over yourself.

-----

Lonestar
03-02-2009, 10:08 PM
OK folks calm the hell down stop with the personal stuff or this and a few other cutler threads get closed..


Lets get :

:focus:

attack the Post and NOT the POSTER..

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 10:09 PM
It is absurd that I can judge McDaniels more than you can judge Cutler? You
coach high school kids. I taught high school kids. You have never been a
professional quarterback. I have at least been a manager, a supervisor, not
to mention a postgraduate education in psychology. So why is that absurd?
Because you say so?

Because it apparently gives you some self righteous sense of entitlement. All that education, and the term, "deal with it internally", doesn't cross your mind.

And you would allow your students to cry through the press in which a manner that Cutler has, especially in this latest episode? Do them a favor. Educate them, and save them from themselves. Cutler either missed that memo a long time ago, or he chooses to ignore it. They have coaching conferences all across the nation about how to teach your kids to be careful when speaking to the press, or even if it's a good idea at all.







Acted like what? Told it like it is? As I said, I can identify because I share that
same specific characteristic. I say it, and my recipients can take it or leave it.
It is called "brutal honesty." Some people--maybe most people--don't like it.
I have no problem with it. :whoknows:

-----

Brutal honesty at the expense of your teammates? Is that how your dealing with the comments after the SD game?

"Brutal honesty" doesn't entail crying and whining to the media, and then making up lies like, "I heard I was still on the trading block".

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:09 PM
OK folks calm the hell down stop with the personal stuff or this and a few other cutler threads get closed..


Lets get :

:focus:

attack the Post and NOT the POSTER..

Close 'em.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:11 PM
Or if he wants to do it, he can do it here, and you can go somewhere else.

It works two ways.

So, get over yourself.

-----

Assuming I have never managed anyone is not very intelligent. And I will leave it that.

elsid13
03-02-2009, 10:12 PM
According to?

The leak is coming from the Patriots, not Denver. Come on man, the source for Mort's report is from New England. That's the same dumb report that said Belichick nixed a deal for a first round pick in favor of a deal for a second round pick.

It's utter lunacy.

Check the forum. Northman posted the information from guy on mane. And yes the other information he posted to be true too - Marshall tirade, Cutler and McDaniels to meet on Sunday (before the call off) (the local media broke the story about 3 hours later).

He has decent not great sources and few nuggets he given us in the past have been right on. When Wabbit (another really really good source post something) I will pass it along.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:13 PM
Check the forum. Northman posted the information from guy on mane. And yes the other information he posted to be true too - Marshall tirade, Cutler and McDaniels to meet on Sunday (before the call off) (the local media broke the story about 3 hours later).

He has decent not great sources and few nuggets he given us in the past have been right on. When Wabbit (another really really good source post something) I will pass it along.

But none of the leaks have come from Dove Valley...they've all been "league sources."

Man, Belichick played us and everything is just chaos now.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 10:13 PM
Because it apparently gives you some self righteous sense of entitlement. All that education, and the term, "deal with it internally", doesn't cross your mind.

And you would allow your students to cry through the press in which a manner that Cutler has, especially in this latest episode? Do them a favor. Educate them, and save them from themselves. Cutler either missed that memo a long time ago, or he chooses to ignore it. They have coaching conferences all across the nation about how to teach your kids to be careful when speaking to the press, or even if it's a good idea at all.






Brutal honesty at the expense of your teammates? Is that how your dealing with the comments after the SD game?

"Brutal honesty" doesn't entail crying and whining to the media, and then making up lies like, "I heard I was still on the trading block".

All this shit started with my saying you do not know the whole story. If that
does not make any sense to you, what are you doing in a teaching position?

I'm done with this. Wisdom seems to have taken a hiatus here.

-----

broncohead
03-02-2009, 10:13 PM
It really wouldn't have been a problem if McD didn't try and trade him. Ya he's speeking his mind, so what. I garentee that most of the "big name players" wouldn't keep quiet.

Shazam!
03-02-2009, 10:15 PM
I root for the Broncos first and foremost, players and Coach second.

What Shanahan was doing the past few years on a multitude of different fronts clearly was no longer working. So, they had to go in a different direction. I understand that and wanted it for years.

I love Cutler but I don't like the way he has been acting. He is not a Manning, a Brady, a Benburger... He did nothing to help this situation and I am not happy about it. He has acted completely unprofessional and it's almost embarassing.

If he wants to be dealt, deal him. he is not John Elway. No player at this point is bigger than the team. I don't want anyone on this roster who isn't in it 100%, even if the Broncos ship is taking on water. We got a Coach who can develop a QB quickly. I'll take my chances.

topscribe
03-02-2009, 10:15 PM
Assuming I have never managed anyone is not very intelligent. And I will leave it that.

You just won't give up, will you?

You just cannot discuss anything without your personal flaming and baiting. I
said I was not going to respond to you. I regret not keeping my word.

I will this time . . . :coffee:

-----

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:15 PM
It really wouldn't have been a problem if McD didn't try and trade him. Ya he's speeking his mind, so what. I garentee that most of the "big name players" wouldn't keep quiet.

Players are almost traded every day. He over-reacted with out stepping back, taking a moment and calling Broncos brass. It was a mistake on his part. Was it a mistake to "ponder" a trade by the brass? Maybe, but his over-reaction is the real problem here.

The organization did nothing wrong. They fielded some phone calls...hell maybe they even shopped the idea. But it didn't happen, and now, we move on, and Cutler needs to learn to so as well.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 10:16 PM
All this shit started with my saying you do not know the whole story. If that
does not make any sense to you, what are you doing in a teaching position?


-----

I've already conceded that. You're not heeding your own advice. Remember, you do no know the whole story either, and it isn't stopping you "judging" McDaniels. But apparently, your entitled to it?. And thanks for insulting my intelligence about 'being in a teaching position'. I've already acknowledged I don't know the entire story and being judgmental anyways. Can you do the same?

topscribe
03-02-2009, 10:19 PM
I've already conceded that. You're not heeding your own advice. Remember, you do no know the whole story either, and it isn't stopping you "judging" McDaniels. But apparently, your entitled to it?. And thanks for insulting my intelligence about 'being in a teaching position'. I've already acknowledged I don't know the entire story and being judgmental anyways. Can you do the same?

Well, that's why I said I'm through here. It's like you never read a word I said.

Over and out.

/posts

-----

Denver Native (Carol)
03-02-2009, 10:20 PM
Here is Michael Smith talking on it:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3944555

When you open up that link, you will also see "Mike and Mike In the Morning". When you click on that, they are discussing the situation with Mortensen.

Both Smith and Mortensen chase stories like this. You will not find either one of them saying that the only part McD played in this was receiving phone calls.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 10:21 PM
Well, that's why I said I'm through here. It's like you never read a word I said.

Over and out.

/posts

-----

I'm wrong, your right. Your self righteous and entitled to it, I'm completely judging without knowing the entire story. it's ok for you to judge without knowing the entire story because your entitled to it, and you've kind of been in his position, but not really, but I haven't been anywhere near Cutler's so that's ok.

There

Cheri o

broncohead
03-02-2009, 10:22 PM
Players are almost traded every day. He over-reacted with out stepping back, taking a moment and calling Broncos brass. It was a mistake on his part. Was it a mistake to "ponder" a trade by the brass? Maybe, but his over-reaction is the real problem here.

The organization did nothing wrong. They fielded some phone calls...hell maybe they even shopped the idea. But it didn't happen, and now, we move on, and Cutler needs to learn to so as well.

It didn't happen this time... You can't really move on when the person who is supposed to help expand Cutler's game is the one who wanted to trade him.

Lonestar
03-02-2009, 10:22 PM
OK folks calm the hell down stop with the personal stuff or this and a few other cutler threads get closed..


Lets get :

:focus:

attack the Post and NOT the POSTER..

one more time in case y"all missed it..

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 10:23 PM
Both Smith and Mortensen chase stories like this. You will not find either one of them saying that the only part McD played in this was receiving phone calls.

Well then, that's ok. If they feel Cutler isn't their QB, and wanted to bring Matt Cassel who knows his system. and we ended up winning, I would be entirely happy with that.

It isn't like we've been winning for the last 3 years anyways.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:23 PM
It didn't happen this time... You can't really move on when the person who is supposed to help expand Cutler's game is the one who wanted to trade him.

Why not...it's never really been proven that he wants to trade him. He said no to the trade...

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 10:26 PM
Why not...it's never really been proven that he wants to trade him. He said no to the trade...

Apparently he didn't say no. The Patriots would have much rather had the #34 pick in the draft instead of a top 15, so they dealt him to KC. Like that makes a lot of sense, but whatever.

broncohead
03-02-2009, 10:27 PM
Why not...it's never really been proven that he wants to trade him. He said no to the trade...

The whole story hasn't been told. I'm sure there is more to the story. Why else would Cutler be acting the way he is. And don't feed me the "he's a pre madonna whiny bitch" crap.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:32 PM
The whole story hasn't been told. I'm sure there is more to the story. Why else would Cutler be acting the way he is. And don't feed me the "he's a pre madonna whiny bitch" crap.

Or, he's a prima donna whiney bitch...

He's been acting like one since just before that three-game slide...so its not like this is something new, this is just worse.

I'm not even sure Cutler knows the full story. After all, he's refusing contact with the brass.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 10:34 PM
Or, he's a prima donna whiney bitch...

He's been acting like one since just before that three-game slide...so its not like this is something new, this is just worse.

I'm not even sure Cutler knows the full story. After all, he's refusing contact with the brass.

My favorite was him throwing the defense under the bus after the SD game. A game coming off a 4 game stretch in which Denver failed to close out the division because the offense averaged a paltry 17 points a game.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-02-2009, 10:34 PM
Well then, that's ok. If they feel Cutler isn't their QB, and wanted to bring Matt Cassel who knows his system. and we ended up winning, I would be entirely happy with that.

It isn't like we've been winning for the last 3 years anyways.

If Ramsey was the starting qb, I would agree. But don't you think Jay should be given a shot to see what he can do, with new players around him, and hopefully a much better defense?

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:35 PM
If Ramsey was the starting qb, I would agree. But don't you think Jay should be given a shot to see what he can do, with new players around him, and hopefully a much better defense?

Last time I checked, he's still under contract.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 10:38 PM
If Ramsey was the starting qb, I would agree. But don't you think Jay should be given a shot to see what he can do, with new players around him, and hopefully a much better defense?

I totally agree. I'm not saying what McDaniels did was right. In fact it was upsetting. But I can't completely blame him because he has no ties to Cutler. He handled it with poor judgment.

My argument is simply, Cutler hasn't helped the situation in the least, and have merely made it worse for the Bronco organization by the way he's acted through the press.

I didn't hear McNabb cry a few years ago through the media when Philly told him they were actively trying to trade him, and this was his own people.

Their both wrong and handled this with poor judgment.

Lonestar
03-02-2009, 10:38 PM
Apparently he didn't say no. The Patriots would have much rather had the #34 pick in the draft instead of a top 15, so they dealt him to KC. Like that makes a lot of sense, but whatever.

they knew that if they took the #1 they would owe him a ton of money.. they are not hurting anywhere for talent..

What they accomplished was dropping 18 mil or so off of there cap and wound up with yet ONE more choice inside the top 60 for a total of 4 ..

they think the guaranteed money on all four will be less than that of the #1 KC choice.. and since NE seems to find talent and players even deep in the draft.. they just turned a low #6 pick into a high number 2 and saved 14 million..

BroncoWave
03-02-2009, 10:38 PM
If Ramsey was the starting qb, I would agree. But don't you think Jay should be given a shot to see what he can do, with new players around him, and hopefully a much better defense?

If he wants to grow up and be a mature leader for this team, then yes, he should definitely be given a shot. But if he keeps up his act and decides not to grow up, then ship his ass off and make him someone else's problem.

broncohead
03-02-2009, 10:40 PM
Or, he's a prima donna whiney bitch...

He's been acting like one since just before that three-game slide...so its not like this is something new, this is just worse.

I'm not even sure Cutler knows the full story. After all, he's refusing contact with the brass.

That's why when McD was first asked about the whole thing he said "no comment." He couldn't even make up a lie when confronted. Cassel who florished in his system just so happens to come into trade talks with his previous OC. Hmmm... I'm sure Cutler can figure it out from what was put on the table. He has every right to act the way he is.

silkamilkamonico
03-02-2009, 10:40 PM
they knew that if they took the #1 they would owe him a ton of money.. they are not hurting anywhere for talent..

What they accomplished was dropping 18 mil or so off of there cap and wound up with yet ONE more choice inside the top 60 for a total of 4 ..

they think the guaranteed money on all four will be less than that of the #1 KC choice.. and since NE seems to find talent and players even deep in the draft.. they just turned a low #6 pick into a high number 2 and saved 14 million..

They are also not hurting for cap space either. They could have simply taken the #1 pick, loaded his contract to a front end deal, and make the back end of it extremely cap friendly, which would make that player almost irrelevant in terms of strapping the cap.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:43 PM
That's why when McD was first asked about the whole thing he said "no comment." He couldn't even make up a lie when confronted. Cassel who florished in his system just so happens to come into trade talks with his previous OC. Hmmm... I'm sure Cutler can figure it out from what was put on the table. He has every right to act the way he is.

No he doesn't have that "right" at all. He's an employee of a franchise. Acting like in any other franchise is going to get you fired.

He should be responsible, and call Broncos brass before commenting. He didn't do that. He flew off the handle. That's unacceptable.

broncohead
03-02-2009, 10:45 PM
No he doesn't have that "right" at all. He's an employee of a franchise. Acting like in any other franchise is going to get you fired.

He should be responsible, and call Broncos brass before commenting. He didn't do that. He flew off the handle. That's unacceptable.

Is it in his contract to not speek his mind to the media?

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:46 PM
Is it in his contract to not speek his mind to the media?

No, actually it's not.

But, if you want to keep your job, I suggest you get in line...catch my drift?

Get bent, and get fired. Se la vie.

broncohead
03-02-2009, 10:49 PM
No, actually it's not.

But, if you want to keep your job, I suggest you get in line...catch my drift?

Get bent, and get fired. Se la vie.

I guess he figures his job is already on the line.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:53 PM
I guess he figures his job is already on the line.

And it should be. I'd like it if he played like that all the time, and not like he was entitled to something.

Lonestar
03-02-2009, 10:55 PM
They are also not hurting for cap space either. They could have simply taken the #1 pick, loaded his contract to a front end deal, and make the back end of it extremely cap friendly, which would make that player almost irrelevant in terms of strapping the cap.

not sure what their cap space is but they do not do business this way.. they don't go after the BIG names all the often and when they do it is for LOS players.. Which they do not need now..

they have passel of top 60 picks to fill their needs and will find another Brady/Cassell type in the draft to turn into a starter or trade away again for another high number 2..

While I really do not like the Pats per see they have a proven way of finding talent, coaching them, teaching coaches and players and wining Lombardi's.. time for us to go to school.. it is hard to say they are not a model to emulate..

broncohead
03-02-2009, 10:56 PM
And it should be. I'd like it if he played like that all the time, and not like he was entitled to something.

Cutler is one of the players that give it his all every game.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 10:56 PM
Cutler is one of the players that give it his all every game.

Really?

You mean like how he pouted through half this season?

Please.

broncohead
03-02-2009, 10:59 PM
Really?

You mean like how he pouted through half this season?

Please.

If you couldn't see HOW HARD HE WORKED ON THE FIELD then your blind and should go invest in some glasses.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 11:00 PM
If you couldn't see HOW HARD HE WORKED ON THE FIELD then your blind and should go invest in some glasses.

I love how he pouts while the Chargers kick the shit out of us. It's awesome!

broncohead
03-02-2009, 11:03 PM
I love how he pouts while the Chargers kick the shit out of us. It's awesome!

I'm sure you like watching us lose to the Chargers.

MOtorboat
03-02-2009, 11:04 PM
I'm sure you like watching us lose to the Chargers.

What does that have to do with it?

Cutler pouts his way through games when its not going his way. It's not a secret.

ktrain
03-03-2009, 12:43 AM
This is the key that McDaniels is missing right now:

"Once that structure was in place, once players understood that sacrificing the good of the team for personal gain was not to be tolerated - and once New England started having success - it became stronger and self-renewing

true but belicheck did not come in playing the wimp role either. If you are going to change the culture, you need to take charge first and hope that success will follow

Northman
03-03-2009, 12:45 AM
I love how he pouts while the Chargers kick the shit out of us. It's awesome!

I guess he could be yucking it up on the sideline and laughing his ass off.

ktrain
03-03-2009, 12:49 AM
Dawkins exemplifies this. Bailey exemplifies it. The rest will follow. They are instilling it on defense.

Now, if we can get the offensive players to buy in...:tsk:

....and if they won't they will be gone. Nobody is irreplaceable in this world and that includes our immature QB and probowl WR

Northman
03-03-2009, 12:54 AM
....and if they won't they will be gone. Nobody is irreplaceable in this world and that includes our immature QB and probowl WR

God, i so hope so at this point. Please God, allow Jay to move on to other pastures already.

Medford Bronco
03-03-2009, 12:56 AM
You're missing the bigger picture, IMHO. They want players who are going to do their job out on the field. "Listen, and do your job."

You mean actullally pay attention in film session and get better.

Wow what a novel concept. Try to learn how to read a defense, read a blitz and do what it takes to win, instead of expecting it because you have had it all your whole life because of your immense natural talent

sorry but the "Patriot way" has been a lot more successful than the Bronco way since 2001 and for those who just thought it was going to be the same as it was before are sadly missing the point of a new regime

Northman
03-03-2009, 12:58 AM
You mean actullally pay attention in film session and get better.

Wow what a novel concept. Try to learn how to read a defense, read a blitz and do what it takes to win, instead of expecting it because you have had it all your whole life because of your immense natural talent

sorry but the "Patriot way" has been a lot more successful than the Bronco way since 2001 and for those who just thought it was going to be the same as it was before are sadly missing the point of a new regime

Patriots are gods. I cant believe how great they are. Good call.

ktrain
03-03-2009, 12:59 AM
No I am not, they are looking for guy to do thier job but nothing but thier jobs even when the see an opperunity to make the things better. It I am charge you do only the things that I tell you to do. It appears to be very rigid industrial style system. And you know what most successfully companies these day don't run that way.

These type of system work great if the folks at tops plans works out perfectly, but when doesn't you go 16 and 1.

dude, this is a football team not a creative ad agency or high tech programming company. There are some jobs were you need people to use their creativity and "non conformists" will often excel in these environment. On the otherhand, there are some jobs that require precise execution and ahderence to procedure (think airline pilot)

There is really only one way to play football and that is to EXECUTE exactly as your coach tells you to, otherwise, it is a complete cluster****, with player running into each other ono=coordinated results. Now of course, there is some improvision when things don't go as planned, but most players are simply executing the responsibilites assigned to them.

Medford Bronco
03-03-2009, 01:01 AM
Patriots are gods. I cant believe how great they are. Good call.

I touch some sarcasm Northman:lol:

Hey I am not a pats lover at all but do respect what they have done and if McD wants to change the culture for the better I am all for it. If he fails then he fails and we move on. I am not going to rain on this just yet because Cutler wont even address the issue it appears.

I want him to play here but with a new attitude, If not then he can go elswhere, no skin off my back. I am not the big Cutler lover like a lot are here.

Shazam!
03-03-2009, 01:04 AM
...the "Patriot way" has been a lot more successful than the Bronco way since 2001 and for those who just thought it was going to be the same as it was before are sadly missing the point of a new regime.

This is why I find it shocking that people are so surprised that they were thinking of getting Cassel. The guy knows McD's offense and from a Coach's standpoint can be more effective from Day 1. Why wouldn't he want his own guys in there? Plus, if he believed Jay was being a spoiled little ?!@# about everything since his arrival, then they had every right to jettison him.

The fact he originally asked to be traded, then bitches about the possibility of being traded shows what a jackass Cutler really is. I support him because he is our QB and he has the skills and I think he can be an elite QB. I am not happy about these revelations about how he really is. If he is SOOOO unhappy in Denver, good riddance.

lex
03-03-2009, 01:05 AM
No, actually it's not.

But, if you want to keep your job, I suggest you get in line...catch my drift?

Get bent, and get fired. Se la vie.

Thats so laughable. There are several teams who would love to have Cutler and he knows it. McDaniels needs to learn that your beyond stupid real world comparisons dont apply. "Employees" dont make more than their bosses in the real world and they often dont have the leverage of knowing what else is out there...not to this degree. McDaniels is trying to play hardball with someone who has leverage and knows it. If youre Cutler and McDaniels wants to be a jerkface and play games, so what? Let him trade you.

ktrain
03-03-2009, 01:05 AM
If you listen to many of the sports commentators, both national and local, they feel, in so many words, that McD is not telling the truth. Just like Mort said - "why would Tampa Bay, out of the clear blue, call McD and ask him if he might be interested in trading Jay Cutler".

uhhhh maybe they would call him ou of the blue because they know McTurd worked with Cassell in NE, makes a shitload of sense to me Carol!

Northman
03-03-2009, 01:07 AM
I touch some sarcasm Northman:lol:

Hey I am not a pats lover at all but do respect what they have done and if McD wants to change the culture for the better I am all for it. If he fails then he fails and we move on. I am not going to rain on this just yet because Cutler wont even address the issue it appears.

I want him to play here but with a new attitude, If not then he can go elswhere, no skin off my back. I am not the big Cutler lover like a lot are here.


As i just mentioned in another thread. I truly believe the bridge has been burned. Whether you think Jay was behind it or McDipshit it really doesnt matter. Now we have Marshall acting like a jackass again and that only adds to the complete BS. Trade them both, get what you can and let McDipshit build his army of turds. If he delivers a playoff birth like he is supposed to this year than i can eat my crow.

Shazam!
03-03-2009, 01:09 AM
If McDaniels can create a team that remotely even resembles the Patriots, watch how fast everyone will stop calling him a turd and such. He hasn't coached one single game. Grow up people.

Northman
03-03-2009, 01:10 AM
If

We'll start with that.

Medford Bronco
03-03-2009, 01:11 AM
As i just mentioned in another thread. I truly believe the bridge has been burned. Whether you think Jay was behind it or McDipshit it really doesnt matter. Now we have Marshall acting like a jackass again and that only adds to the complete BS. Trade them both, get what you can and let McDipshit build his army of turds. If he delivers a playoff birth like he is supposed to this year than i can eat my crow.

we all know there are many different ways of success.


balts with defense
arizona with mostly offense and a decent D down the stretch
Pitt with mostly defense.

who knows what will happen.
I am bronco fan no matter what and will support what is done.

I just want to see some direction. If it gets all blown up to me
that is life and I will give the new regime the chance to build

its not like the players here the last 2 years have had any much success
anyways.

lex
03-03-2009, 01:13 AM
If McDaniels can create a team that remotely even resembles the Patriots, watch how fast everyone will stop calling him a turd and such. He hasn't coached one single game. Grow up people.

Id rather not copy the Patriots. And seeing what has happened since this jerkface has arrived has been so disheartening that winning doesnt justify it, whether its the Goodmans or the whole saga with shopping Cutler.

Northman
03-03-2009, 01:15 AM
we all know there are many different ways of success.



I am bronco fan no matter what.

I just want to see some direction. If it gets all blown up to me
that is life and I will give the new regime the chance to build



With this, i totally agree.

NightTrainLayne
03-03-2009, 01:17 AM
Thats so laughable. There are several teams who would love to have Cutler and he knows it. McDaniels needs to learn that your beyond stupid real world comparisons dont apply. "Employees" dont make more than their bosses in the real world and they often dont have the leverage of knowing what else is out there...not to this degree. McDaniels is trying to play hardball with someone who has leverage and knows it. If youre Cutler and McDaniels wants to be a jerkface and play games, so what? Let him trade you.

Hmmm. . .In the company that I work for a sizeable portion of the sales force earns more than their managers, and we are all more than aware of what other opportunities exist with other companies. .. .I guess I'm not part of the "real" world.

lex
03-03-2009, 01:19 AM
Hmmm. . .In the company that I work for a sizeable portion of the sales force earns more than their managers, and we are all more than aware of what other opportunities exist with other companies. .. .I guess I'm not part of the "real" world.


Yeah, ok, and with that kind of a situation, you have more leverage than jobs that dont rely on commission.

ktrain
03-03-2009, 01:20 AM
Or if he wants to do it, he can do it here, and you can go somewhere else.

It works two ways.

So, get over yourself.

-----

You have no power or influence over this situation whatsover. Quit acting like you opinion matters to anyone but yourself and a few other internet tough guys, especially within the Broncos organization.

MO is correctly pointing out that McDaniels is not going to take anyone's shit PERIOD, neither you nor anyone else OTHER THAN BOWLEN has the power to change that fact. If you don't like that, you should find another team, because only Bowlen has the power to change this and I don't see it happening anytime soon.

The rest of us fans have the same choice, accept it continue to root for the team and hope for the best (as none of us really work if the mcdaniels strategy will work) or find a new team

Northman
03-03-2009, 01:21 AM
You are a ******* idiot and you might as well go yell at a wall and expect it to argue back. You have no power or influence over this situation whatsover. Quit acting like you opinion matters to anyone but yourself and a few other internet tough guys, especially within the Broncos organization.

MO is correctly pointing out that McDaniels is not going to take anyone's shit PERIOD, neither you nor anyone else OTHER THAN BOWLEN has the power to change that fact. If you don't like that, you should find another team, because only Bowlen has the power to change this and I don't see it happening anytime soon.

The rest of us fans have the same choice, accept it continue to root for the team and hope for the best (as none of us really work if the mcdaniels strategy will work) or find a new team

No need to get personal. :tsk:

ktrain
03-03-2009, 01:35 AM
Id rather not copy the Patriots. And seeing what has happened since this jerkface has arrived has been so disheartening that winning doesnt justify it, whether its the Goodmans or the whole saga with shopping Cutler.

What do you hate winning?

NightTrainLayne
03-03-2009, 01:35 AM
Yeah, ok, and with that kind of a situation, you have more leverage than jobs that dont rely on commission.

Right. So maybe you could be a little more charitable than to tell MO that his comparison was "beyond stupid", because it wasn't beyond stupid. It doesn't apply to every job or employer, but it would apply to some.

lex
03-03-2009, 01:41 AM
Right. So maybe you could be a little more charitable than to tell MO that his comparison was "beyond stupid", because it wasn't beyond stupid. It doesn't apply to every job or employer, but it would apply to some.


It is a stupid comparison because its using the idea that employees have no leverage and their bosses absolutely and completely dictate terms. And actually, most jobs are not driven by commission.

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 04:41 AM
Thats so laughable. There are several teams who would love to have Cutler and he knows it. McDaniels needs to learn that your beyond stupid real world comparisons dont apply. "Employees" dont make more than their bosses in the real world and they often dont have the leverage of knowing what else is out there...not to this degree. McDaniels is trying to play hardball with someone who has leverage and knows it. If youre Cutler and McDaniels wants to be a jerkface and play games, so what? Let him trade you.

I suspect your new to the work force if you do at all. Actually in many sales areas some employees on commission or incentives can actually make more money that salaried management.. I know of several but I'll just sight one below..

My son was at a Los Angeles computer company and one top sales guys was drawing down $750K a year while his boss was not making that kind of money.. Several others were making about $100k more than the regional guy..

You ask how can that be? Simple the top dogs have NO home life and the Managers do and are happy making $450k a year for managing those top dogs..

Money is not always the determining factor in the hierarchy of companies, Power is and my friend Mc Kid has more power than mc baby does....

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 04:45 AM
Yeah, ok, and with that kind of a situation, you have more leverage than jobs that dont rely on commission.

what do you think Jays incentives for making the pro bowl, throwing for 4000 yard, throwing 20/25/30 TD's are..












It is all commission NFL style..

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 04:52 AM
It is a stupid comparison because its using the idea that employees have no leverage and their bosses absolutely and completely dictate terms. And actually, most jobs are not driven by commission.

Almost all jobs are driven by performance.. almost all jobs have incentive built into the salary structure..

If you do not meet those goals then you are looking for a job.. NFL is no different ask mikey.. and only Champ made more money than he did.. But when mikey said jump Champ asked how high on the way down..

Money does not rule the world, power does many people make more money than obama does and well he holds the power..

I can see where those that have not yet explore the real world yet need to.......

elsid13
03-03-2009, 05:48 AM
dude, this is a football team not a creative ad agency or high tech programming company. There are some jobs were you need people to use their creativity and "non conformists" will often excel in these environment. On the otherhand, there are some jobs that require precise execution and ahderence to procedure (think airline pilot)

There is really only one way to play football and that is to EXECUTE exactly as your coach tells you to, otherwise, it is a complete cluster****, with player running into each other ono=coordinated results. Now of course, there is some improvision when things don't go as planned, but most players are simply executing the responsibilites assigned to them.

I know people want to make football different then what they do but in end it same professional crap that everyone else grind through day and day out. Same BS that we all deal with.

lex
03-03-2009, 08:55 AM
I suspect your new to the work force if you do at all. Actually in many sales areas some employees on commission or incentives can actually make more money that salaried management.. I know of several but I'll just sight one below..

My son was at a Los Angeles computer company and one top sales guys was drawing down $750K a year while his boss was not making that kind of money.. Several others were making about $100k more than the regional guy..

You ask how can that be? Simple the top dogs have NO home life and the Managers do and are happy making $450k a year for managing those top dogs..

Money is not always the determining factor in the hierarchy of companies, Power is and my friend Mc Kid has more power than mc baby does....

Youre way off.

lex
03-03-2009, 08:56 AM
what do you think Jays incentives for making the pro bowl, throwing for 4000 yard, throwing 20/25/30 TD's are..












It is all commission NFL style..

And...?

56crash
03-03-2009, 02:14 PM
I'm sorry but that's a load of crap. Even after they got caught and quit doing it they still went 18-1 and 11-5. Their success was not merely a product of videotapes. You HAVE to have good players and a good system to win 3 SB's. The videotape excuse is just a copout by people who hate the Pats IMO.

is that why they went on hard times this year when hand signs were no longer used ?:welcome:

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 03:24 PM
is that why they went on hard times this year when hand signs were no longer used ?:welcome:



could have been they had a rookie QB and some other injuries and frankly a 11-5 season is nothing to sneeze at..

I'd love to be as consistent as NE has been over the past 10 years..

Wouldn't you?

broncohead
03-03-2009, 04:54 PM
What does that have to do with it?

Cutler pouts his way through games when its not going his way. It's not a secret.

So he's supposed to be happy about it? He should be laughing when we lose then?

lex
03-03-2009, 10:14 PM
Right. So maybe you could be a little more charitable than to tell MO that his comparison was "beyond stupid", because it wasn't beyond stupid. It doesn't apply to every job or employer, but it would apply to some.


In your scenario you have leverage. He was talking about ones where people dont have that leverage on their boss. It was an awful comparison.

MOtorboat
03-03-2009, 10:24 PM
In your scenario you have leverage. He was talking about ones where people dont have that leverage on their boss. It was an awful comparison.

And, it DOES apply here NTL.

Unfortunately, lex, as usual is right, and you and I are wrong. :rolleyes:

It wasn't an awful comparison, it was a point of contention, and it certainly doesn't make me an idiot. If you could learn to have an actual conversation with someone on here, they might take you seriously. But continue with the belittling, it's clear you know very little. Let me know when the Cubs get their schedule re-arranged, because your crap management can't keep ticket prices down.

Good football organizations instill in their players that they speak with management before making statements, especially of this magnitude. And on that same regard, good employees contact their employers before flying off the handle like spoiled, rotten children. which Cutler clearly did.

He isn't entitled to anything, regardless of his salary, or his position. His bosses are Xanders and McDaniels. They can pretty much do whatever they want, which includes trading him.

In this case. They didn't trade him. Cutler got contacted by the media and flew off the handle. Good employees, who have solid-minded approaches to their job don't do that. I'm not saying Jay Cutler isn't a good quarterback, or can't play his position. But his first action should have been to contact Denver. He didn't do that. Now, he won't talk to Denver. That's being even more childish than flying off the handle.

My employer would fire me in a heartbeat for the actions he has taken, and the scenario is the same with every single person here.

horsepig
03-03-2009, 11:45 PM
No I am not, they are looking for guy to do thier job but nothing but thier jobs even when the see an opperunity to make the things better. It I am charge you do only the things that I tell you to do. It appears to be very rigid industrial style system. And you know what most successfully companies these day don't run that way.

These type of system work great if the folks at tops plans works out perfectly, but when doesn't you go 16 and 1.

Anybody here old enough to remember the hey days of the Faiders? Every cast off trouble maker seemed to find a job in Oakland. Some of them became HOF'ers.

Don't denegrate a system that works, just because you don't like that team.

BroncoWave
03-04-2009, 12:22 AM
is that why they went on hard times this year when hand signs were no longer used ?:welcome:

If 11-5 is "hard times", then sign me up for those "hard times." If 11-5 turns out to be "hard times" under McDaniels, I can't wait to see our good times.