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View Full Version : Is McDaniels to tied to his "system"



elsid13
03-02-2009, 01:47 PM
I am not starting this a thread to blast the guy, I am just wondering if the young coach is to inflexible about using his system and isn't willing to adopt the program to play to his strengths in Denver. I know he was successful as OC with it, but trying to have exact same type of player fulfilling the exact same role might not be the right answer in all cases.

Like him or hate him Shanahan was one of the brightest offensive minds in the league and his system was as complex and as demanding as any in the NFL. But he was also smart enough to adapt the system to the strength of his players/QB from Elway, SOB, Plummer Cutler. All ran same underlying system but each was adapted to play to the strenght of their game.

Do you think that McDaniels is willing to do that? or his going to force square pegs into round holes?

G_Money
03-02-2009, 02:06 PM
I was thinking his keeping our OL and RB coaches meant the passing game would be the one he knows, but the running game might be ours, since we're so damn good at it.

It also made perfect sense because we already had revamped the OL successfully to fit our running scheme, so messing with that would mess with our personnel needs and we might have to change some more pieces along the line.

We'll see. Mixing some of what NE does with some of what we do sounds like a great idea - they're two fully functioning machines that should make a monstrously successful hybrid Frankenstein.

Right now I just want us to get to the start of the regular season with all our functioning pieces intact and happy. Anything more than that is a bonus.

~G

shank
03-02-2009, 02:07 PM
the longsnapper MUST have lots of tattoos.

CBs under 30 are too busy thinking about playing atari to cover receivers.

weak-armed, game managing QBs are the key to almost making the playoffs.

players are at their best when they hate their coach and fear for their futures.

McSystem.

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 02:10 PM
Some people just make shit up. I cant wait to see the rest of the answers to this

Medford Bronco
03-02-2009, 02:15 PM
Some people just make shit up. I cant wait to see the rest of the answers to this

and Cassel does not have a weak arm.

He played very well last year. He was on a good team with an actual defense. which helps

but he did not make a lot of the dumb throws that "I have a stronger arm than Elway" did espcially in the Buffalo game that ultimatley led to Shannys firing and all of this coming into focus.

Its time for Cutler to just be silent for awhile and come in here with a fresh new outlook and try to be successful, which he can but if he keeps the baby crap up then he can ultimately be Jeff George, which would be sad for all of us.

Rex
03-02-2009, 02:16 PM
Was Shanahan tied to his system when he got to Denver?

Medford Bronco
03-02-2009, 02:17 PM
Was Shanahan tied to his system when he got to Denver?

yes and it worked well when he had the right players to run that system

Elway, Davis, R Smith, Ed MccAf etc.

honz
03-02-2009, 02:19 PM
We signed Jabar Gaffney, so clearly McDaniels cannot function without all of the key players from his system.

Rex
03-02-2009, 02:20 PM
We signed Jabar Gaffney, so clearly McDaniels cannot function without all of the key players from his system.

Obviously.

I heard he is trying to get Corey Dillon to unretire.

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 02:22 PM
We signed Jabar Gaffney, so clearly McDaniels cannot function without all of the key players from his system.

...and Shanny couldnt live without Putzier and Jackson. Every coach does the same thing

elsid13
03-02-2009, 02:25 PM
...and Shanny couldnt live without Putzier and Jackson. Every coach does the same thing

To be fair, those guys didn't hook up with team til Shanahan was established.

I don't remember Shanahan dragging any of SF 49ers with him when came to Denver. Do you?

Broncogator
03-02-2009, 02:27 PM
...and Shanny couldnt live without Putzier and Jackson. Every coach does the same thing

Don't forget about Chad Mustard..

shank
03-02-2009, 02:28 PM
...and Shanny couldnt live without Putzier and Jackson. Every coach does the same thing

putz and jackson didn't replace hard working successful players like McD is doing with mike leach and brandon stokely though.

Den21vsBal19
03-02-2009, 02:32 PM
To be fair, those guys didn't hook up with team til Shanahan was established.

I don't remember Shanahan dragging any of SF 49ers with him when came to Denver. Do you?
Only one I can think of off the top of my head is Eddie Mac :confused:

elsid13
03-02-2009, 02:35 PM
Only one I can think of off the top of my head is Eddie Mac :confused:

Wasn't he free agent from NYG at the time. I know he spent a year or two in SF, but I thought he was with Reeves in NY

Den21vsBal19
03-02-2009, 02:40 PM
Wasn't he free agent from NYG at the time. I know he spent a year or two in SF, but I thought he was with Reeves in NY
Career information
Year(s): 1991–2003
NFL Draft: 1991 / Round: 3 / Pick: 83
College: Stanford
Professional teams
New York Giants (1991-1993)
San Francisco 49ers (1994)
Denver Broncos (1995-2003)

elsid13
03-02-2009, 02:41 PM
Career information
Year(s): 1991–2003
NFL Draft: 1991 / Round: 3 / Pick: 83
College: Stanford
Professional teams
New York Giants (1991-1993)
San Francisco 49ers (1994)
Denver Broncos (1995-2003)

thanks got the timing mixed up.

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 02:45 PM
He brings in one player he's worked with in the past and suddenly he just cant live without them. Seems to me like he is bringing in players that he likes for his system. So Gaffney happens to be one of them. Considering Marshall's propensity for a suspension and Stokley's regular concussions, maybe that wasnt a bad move.

This silly shit gets blown out of proportion. Next thing will be hatred toward him because he likes New England Clam Chowder more than Rocky Mountain Oysters.

Can we PLEASE find something that McD has done so horribly before we crucify him?

shank
03-02-2009, 02:51 PM
coach, he also replaced a 7-year bronco, and our best special teams player, with another friend of his from NE, giving him about 60% more money int he process.

don't forget that he also flirted with the idea of bringing in cassel. even you, who is minimizing the situation, would have to admit that that is a phone call you laugh loudly AS you hang up...

Grover
03-02-2009, 02:53 PM
Coach McKid has certainly created a public relations issue with Broncos fans. What is unclear is whether or not Pat Bowlen likes what he's doing. Pat's been silent on the issue, at least for public consumption.

What I would like to see from McDaniels is him looking at DENVER BRONCOS history in order to assemble his team. Any one who has been around since the 1970's knows we have a strong tradition on the defensive side of the ball. Yeah I know, 30 years ago - so call me OLD!

I'd like Coach McKid to mention previous Broncos when he introduces players. For instance, say that Dawkins brings the sort of hard hitting leadership we have seen from Lunch, Atwater and Smith at the Safety position.

I've spent years respecting, but hating on the Patriots. I know I would like it better if McDaniels would start referring to the Broncos as "us" and the Patriots as "them", and I'd like to see him learn a bit about Broncos tradition.

It's obivous we needed a change. But let's voice the change around bringing in players that are competitive leaders in the tradition of the Denver Broncos, and not make this place Foxborough West.

end rant</r>

omac
03-02-2009, 02:55 PM
yes and it worked well when he had the right players to run that system

Elway, Davis, R Smith, Ed MccAf etc.

Actually, Shanahan's system evolved. He took the offense of Walsh, brought it to Denver and made it run-heavy with the zone blocking he took from Gibbs. He tailored it to Plummer, focusing on moving him around, and with Cutler, he even tinkered a lot with the spread. He also tailors the offense to the opponent. Bellichick himself said Shanahan puts his defense in unaccustomed situations. We also saw that with the moving wall with TEs Shanny used for rushing early in the game against the Colts 2 seasons back.

But that was Shanahan's approach; McDaniels seems to be more of a consistent look type of guy, and he mentioned that he wanted that out of our defense too. That also has it's own merits. The Pats offense is always consistent; the Broncos, not so much ... Shanahan built consistency in his offense through the running game. Some drawbacks of that consistent style of McDaniels is their lack of adjustments to the Giants' pressure on Brady during the superbowl.

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 02:55 PM
coach, he also replaced a 7-year bronco, and our best special teams player, with another friend of his from NE, giving him about 60% more money int he process.

don't forget that he also flirted with the idea of bringing in cassel. even you, who is minimizing the situation, would have to admit that that is a phone call you laugh loudly AS you hang up...

Give me something other than a "source close to the situation" to prove that McDaniels TRIED to trade Jay and I wont minimize it so much.

...and really...is the deal over a long snapper really that big of a deal? Seriously?

omac
03-02-2009, 03:05 PM
The Cassel trade would've immediately gave him a QB that really knew his system. Mike Martz did something similar when he brought JT O'Sullivan with him from Detroit to SF; he did sabotage the QB competition to take Shaun Hill out of the running, to ensure he got the QB he was comfortable with running his plays. When Nolan was fired and Singletary took over, the QB competition farce was exposed, and O'Sullivan was sent to the bench in favor of Hill.

There is no hard evidence, though, that McDaniels would basically in effect make a straight trade Cutler for Cassel, which in market value alone (at least the perceived stock of each player by opposing teams) would be incredibly stupid. It's not beyond belief that McDaniels, like Martz, would want a QB who he's comfortable with and entrenched in his system to run it.

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 03:07 PM
The Cassel trade would've immediately gave him a QB that really knew his system. Mike Martz did something similar when he brought JT O'Sullivan with him from Detroit to SF; he did sabotage the QB competition to take Shaun Hill out of the running, to ensure he got the QB he was comfortable with running his plays. When Nolan was fired and Singletary took over, the QB competition farce was exposed, and O'Sullivan was sent to the bench in favor of Hill.

There is no hard evidence, though, that McDaniels would basically in effect make a straight trade Cutler for Cassel, which in market value alone (at least the perceived stock of each player by opposing teams) would be incredibly stupid. It's not beyond belief that McDaniels, like Martz, would want a QB who he's comfortable with and entrenched in his system to run it.

Just to play devils advocate...why would a Cutler for Cassel trade be stupid?

G_Money
03-02-2009, 03:14 PM
Coach, it doesn't matter what he did with respect to trying to trade Cutler. It only matters how he made Cutler FEEL about that rumor.

Total butchery.

Now he has a fanbase that doesn't trust him, an angry QB that REALLY doesn't trust him, teammates of that QB who are angry and don't trust him... and he can say "but I didn't DO anything wrong!" Except that would have been a better denial to make emphatically the hour the charges came out. Now it's too late to say, "We just got a phone call and took it, Jay was never going anywhere." It may have always been too late to say that, but now it REALLY is.

He's firing popular guys and bringing in players who aren't better to replace them. Goodman is not better than Bly (though he may be cheaper for the same skill level) and the Patriots he's bringing over are not better than the Broncos they're replacing.

It creates bad atmosphere.

I don't care that he entertained the thought of moving Cutler for Cassel. With the right package, that could be acceptable, and McD knows he's not getting the 14 years Shanahan got. He's got to get it mostly right in 3-4 years or he's out, and there's more than one road to a championship.

But he didn't get Cassel, and he had no idea how to handle Jay once it got out that he entertained offers for his star QB that would have replaced him with a friend from NE. Considering Cassel isn't the problem. Firebombing his relationship with Jay and then throwing gas on that fire with subsequent actions? That's the problem.

I still hope he can be flexible, but as much as keeping the OL and RB coach hinted that maybe he could adapt his long-term planning, his response to this indicates he's terrible at thinking on his feet and responding to emergencies. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

~G

omac
03-02-2009, 03:24 PM
Just to play devils advocate...why would a Cutler for Cassel trade be stupid?

I said a straight trade of Cutler for Cassel would be stupid. It is obvious that coaches, analysts, and teams put a higher value on Cutler than Cassel. A lot are also cautious about Cassel being a one-year-wonder, and there's an article here posted about that too.

Cassel + draft picks or similar would be much smarter than just a straight trade. I'm not saying Cassel can't prove to later be a better QB than Cutler, but his value is definitely not as high as Cutler's is, so why deal Cutler so cheap when you can get so much more? Again if the rumors are true, McDaniels' desire to acquire his former QB could have clouded his judgement.

On your comment about the long snapper ... Leach was very good and very consistent, and was a solid contributor as a tackler in special teams, and had other skills as well. He was also a team player, and very cheap. Why was there such a big need to replace him with another solid long snapper, but who commanded the 2nd highest price in the league? Was the possible upgrade worth the money and the effects on team chemistry?

Again, why replace Cutler for cheap when you can get so much more, if the rumors were true?

Why replace an extremely solid, content, cheap long snapper with another solid one who's paid the 2nd highest in the league? We'd better see a huge difference in long snapper production for that. :coffee:

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 03:25 PM
Coach, it doesn't matter what he did with respect to trying to trade Cutler. It only matters how he made Cutler FEEL about that rumor.
Total butchery.

Now he has a fanbase that doesn't trust him, an angry QB that REALLY doesn't trust him, teammates of that QB who are angry and don't trust him... and he can say "but I didn't DO anything wrong!" Except that would have been a better denial to make emphatically the hour the charges came out. Now it's too late to say, "We just got a phone call and took it, Jay was never going anywhere." It may have always been too late to say that, but now it REALLY is.

He's firing popular guys and bringing in players who aren't better to replace them. Goodman is not better than Bly (though he may be cheaper for the same skill level) and the Patriots he's bringing over are not better than the Broncos they're replacing.

It creates bad atmosphere.

I don't care that he entertained the thought of moving Cutler for Cassel. With the right package, that could be acceptable, and McD knows he's not getting the 14 years Shanahan got. He's got to get it mostly right in 3-4 years or he's out, and there's more than one road to a championship.

But he didn't get Cassel, and he had no idea how to handle Jay once it got out that he entertained offers for his star QB that would have replaced him with a friend from NE. Considering Cassel isn't the problem. Firebombing his relationship with Jay and then throwing gas on that fire with subsequent actions? That's the problem.

I still hope he can be flexible, but as much as keeping the OL and RB coach hinted that maybe he could adapt his long-term planning, his response to this indicates he's terrible at thinking on his feet and responding to emergencies. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

~G

Seriously? A professional athlete is completely unaware that trade rumors occur and when he catches wind that something "might" have been said, he gets his feelings hurt. That's really what matters in this issue?

if that's the case, then deal him now because if a trade rumor is going to cause this, we're in for alot of misery

shank
03-02-2009, 03:34 PM
...and really...is the deal over a long snapper really that big of a deal? Seriously?

where do you work coach? what if one of your co-workers of 7 years, who never called in sick and you honestly can't remember the last time he made a mistake, gets fired so that your boss can bring in a guy he knows, and then proceeds to pay the new guy about 60% more than what your good friend and collegue was making for doing an exemplary job. you would feel good about your own future with the company, and stand behind your boss' decision?

just because it's football doesn't mean that these aren't people's jobs. people always talk about it like it's a business, but there is still such a thing as business ethics. he fired a longtime bronco to make a more expensive, lateral move. why does the position matter? would you take issue with it if he fired Eddie Royal, then somehow brought in desaun jackson and payed him almost 2/3 more than what we were paying royal? it's the same thing. a decision that costs the team more money, for no benefit on the field, and only causes players increased contempt for their coach.

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 03:41 PM
Quite honestly, in my office, I would equate the long snapper to being the janitor. And if my boss decided to pay the new janitor more than the old jamitor, I would probably care very little. Now, if I was good friends with the old jamitor and liked the way he cleaned my office, I might feel sorry for him, but I would in no way worry about my own job nor would it affect my performance.

G_Money
03-02-2009, 04:02 PM
Seriously? A professional athlete is completely unaware that trade rumors occur and when he catches wind that something "might" have been said, he gets his feelings hurt. That's really what matters in this issue?

if that's the case, then deal him now because if a trade rumor is going to cause this, we're in for alot of misery

Players get butt-hurt about stupid things all the time.

Normally, a coaching staff knows how to cool them off. When they can't, then they wind up trading the guy or letting him play disgruntled for a while.

Who are you gonna replace him with? Call up Kurt Warner? He gets butt-hurt too.

Getting rid of Cutler might fix the specific issue, but not the underlying cause. Tender asscracks come with highly paid athletes. Either know how to properly apply the Prep-H or get someone on your staff who does, because it comes up all the time.

Most teams just aren't stupid enough to let it get to this point. The only teams that get away with not applying a lot of Prep-H are guys with great track records or strong locker rooms, or both.

We have a brand-new, never-coached-before head man who apparently lacks any sort of Prep-H skill and a fractured locker room with no leaders off the field - and one of the leaders on the field is the one getting flak and becoming butt-hurt.

Not a good combo.

~G

shank
03-02-2009, 04:04 PM
Getting rid of Cutler might fix the specific issue, but not the underlying cause. Tender asscracks come with highly paid athletes. Either know how to properly apply the Prep-H or get someone on your staff who does, because it comes up all the time.



getting rid of cutler might fix THIS problem, but it will also create problems with marshall, scheffler, other players, as well as finding a replacement. deal with all that and destroy the best young offense in the league? or mend a fence. toughy.

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 04:05 PM
Why the assumption that every player would react the same? Is it not possible that some might call the coach or GM and ask what's going on? If there is any validity to this?

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 04:07 PM
getting rid of cutler might fix THIS problem, but it will also create problems with marshall, scheffler, other players, as well as finding a replacement. deal with all that and destroy the best young offense in the league? or mend a fence. toughy.

I agree, but it does bring up another problem I have.

Do I have to sit and worry about what 2 "homeboys" are going to do if I piss off the 3rd one all the time?

What happens if I feel I need a better TE? Do I have to worry about Jay and Brandon getting mad and wanting to leave? What if I get tired of Marshall always getting trouble? Do I really want to sit back and coddle and kiss the ass of a few players because they are "buddies"

shank
03-02-2009, 04:18 PM
I agree, but it does bring up another problem I have.

Do I have to sit and worry about what 2 "homeboys" are going to do if I piss off the 3rd one all the time?

What happens if I feel I need a better TE? Do I have to worry about Jay and Brandon getting mad and wanting to leave? What if I get tired of Marshall always getting trouble? Do I really want to sit back and coddle and kiss the ass of a few players because they are "buddies"

even though they are buddies, they will recognize it if you make the team better. but if you get rid on one of them *coughcutler* for a downgrade at his position *casselihaveacold* then it will become us vs. him, and for good reason IMO. so it shouldn't really be a consideration as long as you are really helping the team, not just swapping a great young player for a guy you already know from your last job...

G_Money
03-02-2009, 04:18 PM
Why the assumption that every player would react the same? Is it not possible that some might call the coach or GM and ask what's going on? If there is any validity to this?

*blinks* Who's saying every player would react the same in this specific circumstance?

This is about Cutler, and anybody on this board who says they expected him to act differently must have been watching a different Cutler the last 3 years. He plays really hard on the field, says whatever comes into his mind, and takes things personally. It's all part of the package.

If you don't like the package and can't live with the package, then move the package - but the next guy should be better. And if you screw up the deal for getting a better package, even if you just THOUGHT about it and weren't actually gonna DO it, then you'd better know your first move is to try to fix it with Cutler, and you chase that down with all possible alacrity.

If you have a ridiculously jealous wife, and you know she'll cut up your clothes and set fire to your car if she catches you cheating, and she finds out you've been talking to a girl who made you an offer to get busy sometime...

You gonna be a lazy-ass about fixing this, lie to her and let her make up her own mind about what's happening, or are you gonna have 5 friends verify you said NO and bring her flowers and send her letters and singing telegrams and do whatever until she understands?

Depends if you want to keep your wife. Maybe you want a less jealous wife. I can understand that - I would. But KNOWING who she is, you SHOULD know how to respond to situations that might bother her, especially if you want to keep her.

It's sort of your job, and very important to your future happiness.

~G

Lonestar
03-02-2009, 04:19 PM
He brings in one player he's worked with in the past and suddenly he just cant live without them. Seems to me like he is bringing in players that he likes for his system. So Gaffney happens to be one of them. Considering Marshall's propensity for a suspension and Stokley's regular concussions, maybe that wasnt a bad move.

This silly shit gets blown out of proportion. Next thing will be hatred toward him because he likes New England Clam Chowder more than Rocky Mountain Oysters.

Can we PLEASE find something that McD has done so horribly before we crucify him?


Glad I had just swallowed before reading this one..

Didn't you know because he picked up the phone and talked to TPA he is entitled to a public flogging and hanging by the neck until dead..

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 04:22 PM
I can say this because I've done it before. Bad analogy, G.

So if someone called and asked about Cutler and they immediately said NO WAY...their next call should have been to Jay explaining the scenario? They should not assume he is professional to handle it like an adult if something did go public? maybe they put too much faith in Jay if that's the case.

bcbronc
03-02-2009, 04:28 PM
Seriously? A professional athlete is completely unaware that trade rumors occur and when he catches wind that something "might" have been said, he gets his feelings hurt. That's really what matters in this issue?

if that's the case, then deal him now because if a trade rumor is going to cause this, we're in for alot of misery

this is just it, it's a business. a new GM and Coach, guaranteed they recieved calls inquiring about every player worth a lick on the roster. Is McD supposed to call every one up every time someone calls to inquire?

McD: Hey Champ, just letting you know TB called to see if you were available.
Champ: What did you say.
McD: I said no. you're the CB of the Broncos and we're keeping it that way.
Champ: Then why are you bothering me.
McD: oops, sorry, just didn't want you to get your panties in a knot.

McD: Hey DJ, just letting youi know......


:rolleyes:

G_Money
03-02-2009, 04:29 PM
I agree, but it does bring up another problem I have.

Do I have to sit and worry about what 2 "homeboys" are going to do if I piss off the 3rd one all the time?

What happens if I feel I need a better TE? Do I have to worry about Jay and Brandon getting mad and wanting to leave? What if I get tired of Marshall always getting trouble? Do I really want to sit back and coddle and kiss the ass of a few players because they are "buddies"

Frankly, yes. If you don't like it, dump em all, because you'll lose em all within 2 years anyway. We seem to be looking at that possibility.

Shanahan could have traded Scheffler. Jay knew Shanny had his back, and even though he would have hated to see Tony go it wouldn't have been yet another seeming betrayal - it would have been business in the NFL, and Jay would have gotten over it.

McDaniels probably can't. In 3 years, once they've been in the AFC Championship game and Scheffler's been injured 32 more times and we lost the AFCCG because we didn't have a healthy TE for mismatches? Yeah, he could do it then. But he has no track record with Cutler or any 2008 Bronco.

Scratch that - the most public track record he has with any 2008 Bronco right now is one of apparent dishonesty with the QB. It doesn't matter if it was actual dishonesty. "Avoid even the APPEARANCE of impropriety," my dad told me when I was a kid. It helps avoid these sorts of misunderstandings.

But McDaniels has no leg to stand on with most of his players. Jay is the 2nd most senior starter on offense. Only Ben Hamilton has been with the Broncos longer than Cutler out of the starting 11. Right? He's the face of the franchise. "If they're messing with him, they'll mess with any of us."

Trust is a fragile thing, Coach. Teams do mutiny on coaches. I was kinda hoping we could at least get to the regular season before these sorts of things started cropping up.

Ditching 3 offensive starters because you don't like having to make peace with all 3 is possible. It's just a silly amount of work that shouldn't have to be done in the first place...and there's no guarantee AT ALL that it will fix the trust problem. In fact, in the short term it's likely to exacerbate it.

~G

G_Money
03-02-2009, 04:38 PM
I can say this because I've done it before. Bad analogy, G.

So if someone called and asked about Cutler and they immediately said NO WAY...their next call should have been to Jay explaining the scenario? They should not assume he is professional to handle it like an adult if something did go public? maybe they put too much faith in Jay if that's the case.

You picked going without the wife. It's not a bad analogy, you just made the other choice. :salute: Going with a less jealous QB is still an option - it just looks like the lesser option based on the available QBs.

As for your question, a) they didn't say NO WAY immediately, or there would be no story, and b) yes they should have warned Jay that he might hear about Former-Favorite-Player-Cassel (not just some guy, but a really BELIEVABLE guy) but it was turned down, or at least warned his agent. You're the new coach. You always take the extra step, rather than assuming the steps you've taken are good enough.

They didn't - the agent called them. And then more screwups ensued. The key to any relationship, especially a new relationship, is trust. Tell someone what's happening before they have a chance to get suspicious that everything's not on the up and up.

Cassel's the ex-girlfriend. Don't flirt with the ex-gf in front of the jealous wife. It's all-too-believable a scenario and your shit will get burned.

~G

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 04:43 PM
Actually, I prefer taking a look at all options that would potentially be better for my team.

Lonestar
03-02-2009, 04:47 PM
Quite honestly, in my office, I would equate the long snapper to being the janitor. And if my boss decided to pay the new janitor more than the old jamitor, I would probably care very little. Now, if I was good friends with the old jamitor and liked the way he cleaned my office, I might feel sorry for him, but I would in no way worry about my own job nor would it affect my performance.

to add to this I did not see where Mike Leach was fired he was released because he asked for it.. perhaps he did not see the long term vision that Mc kid had or was afraid to compete for the job..

G_Money
03-02-2009, 04:50 PM
Actually, I prefer taking a look at all options that would potentially be better for my team.

We can't always get what we want.

~G

shank
03-02-2009, 04:53 PM
to add to this I did not see where Mike Leach was fired he was released because he asked for it.. perhaps he did not see the long term vision that Mc kid had or was afraid to compete for the job..

where did you hear this?

if it's even true, what did leach have to compete for. what 'long term vision' is there for a long-snapper? he had done his job perfectly for 7 years, but a friend of the new HC was brought in and payed way more than leach was getting. his job was given away.

CoachChaz
03-02-2009, 04:54 PM
We can't always get what we want.

~G

No, but we can always look into it.

G_Money
03-02-2009, 05:05 PM
Not necessarily without cost, though. *shrugs* And we're paying that cost right now. Hopefully it doesn't get any higher.

~G

omac
03-02-2009, 10:15 PM
Players get butt-hurt about stupid things all the time.

Normally, a coaching staff knows how to cool them off. When they can't, then they wind up trading the guy or letting him play disgruntled for a while.

Who are you gonna replace him with? Call up Kurt Warner? He gets butt-hurt too.

Getting rid of Cutler might fix the specific issue, but not the underlying cause. Tender asscracks come with highly paid athletes. Either know how to properly apply the Prep-H or get someone on your staff who does, because it comes up all the time.

Most teams just aren't stupid enough to let it get to this point. The only teams that get away with not applying a lot of Prep-H are guys with great track records or strong locker rooms, or both.

We have a brand-new, never-coached-before head man who apparently lacks any sort of Prep-H skill and a fractured locker room with no leaders off the field - and one of the leaders on the field is the one getting flak and becoming butt-hurt.

Not a good combo.

~G

Great post. Most of the time, the most temperamental players are some of the best at their positions. TO, Chad Johnson, Albert Haynesworth, Brett Favre. One thing with Cutler, though; he may be way too open with the press, but he never lets a situation mess with his work ethic both in the offseason and during the season, as well as his effort during games. He always gives his all in everything he does, and expects perfection not only from himself but from his teammates. In light of that, his pressers are pretty mundane. All he wanted from the very start was an assurance from his head coach early on in the process.

He definitely doesn't take plays off, like Haynesworth, or Moss before the Pats. Doesn't complain that he isn't targeted enough, like Chad Johnson or TO. Really, football related, you can't ask for a more dedicated QB to learn the system and run it to perfection.

skycoyote
03-03-2009, 10:14 AM
Yes, he is too tied to his system. Eventually everybody figures out what your doing and they stop you. He won't be here for his third year maybe even his second year. This season will be a disaster. He was absolutely the wrong choice for coach. Bowlen should have brought in a defensive guy and left the offensive coaches in place, why fix what is not broke. I would have gladly taken Spag's 4-3 or Ryan's 46 over Nolan's 3-4 anyday. McDaniel's is too young to take on the responsibilites of a HC and is proving it daily. All he has is Bellick's playbook--and that's it, what else has he done?

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 10:47 AM
Yes, he is too tied to his system. Eventually everybody figures out what your doing and they stop you. He won't be here for his third year maybe even his second year. This season will be a disaster. He was absolutely the wrong choice for coach. Bowlen should have brought in a defensive guy and left the offensive coaches in place, why fix what is not broke. I would have gladly taken Spag's 4-3 or Ryan's 46 over Nolan's 3-4 anyday. McDaniel's is too young to take on the responsibilites of a HC and is proving it daily. All he has is Bellick's playbook--and that's it, what else has he done?

This is the stuff we have to weed through and really hope doesnt get posted. NOTHING has happened to prove one way or another if any of this is a failure and suddenly, not only is McDaniels offense a failure...but now Nolan's defense is too.

Seriously people...can we try just a little bit to stick with the stuff we have evidence of? Is it that hard?

skycoyote
03-03-2009, 01:29 PM
George Bush had evidence of weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ, or I could say "where there's smoke there's fire." The question is, "Is McDaniels too tied to his system." I say yes because Bellick's offense is all he knows. Well, we have a system in Denver too, its called BIG ARMED QUARTERBACKS AND RUN THE FOOTBALL, YA BABY, its worked since 1977. As far as Nolan goes check his defensive's rank throughout the years and especially pay attention to his time at the Redskins. Furthermore, I said McDaniels was a mistake the day they hired him an I will maintain that position til his early exit.

frauschieze
03-03-2009, 03:53 PM
to add to this I did not see where Mike Leach was fired he was released because he asked for it.. perhaps he did not see the long term vision that Mc kid had or was afraid to compete for the job..

He did ask to be released. I can't imagine that he wouldn't have competed for the job if given the chance, but think about it in monetary terms. Say Leach beats out Paxton in camp, but it's close (as it would likely be). Who would you rather cut: The guy who will cost you over a million in dead cap with guaranteed money or the guy who won't cost you a penny? Leach was going to be gone regardless, so he went with the option that gave him the best chance to continue on with his career for his family: being released early on in the FA period.

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 03:56 PM
George Bush had evidence of weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ, or I could say "where there's smoke there's fire." The question is, "Is McDaniels too tied to his system." I say yes because Bellick's offense is all he knows. Well, we have a system in Denver too, its called BIG ARMED QUARTERBACKS AND RUN THE FOOTBALL, YA BABY, its worked since 1977. As far as Nolan goes check his defensive's rank throughout the years and especially pay attention to his time at the Redskins. Furthermore, I said McDaniels was a mistake the day they hired him an I will maintain that position til his early exit.

2 Championships in 14 years or 3 Championships in 10. Let me do the math

Medford Bronco
03-03-2009, 05:05 PM
2 Championships in 14 years or 3 Championships in 10. Let me do the math

how about playoffs every year vs missing the playoffs the last 3 years and going 17-20

which is better

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 06:09 PM
He did ask to be released. I can't imagine that he wouldn't have competed for the job if given the chance, but think about it in monetary terms. Say Leach beats out Paxton in camp, but it's close (as it would likely be). Who would you rather cut: The guy who will cost you over a million in dead cap with guaranteed money or the guy who won't cost you a penny? Leach was going to be gone regardless, so he went with the option that gave him the best chance to continue on with his career for his family: being released early on in the FA period.


Hey I like Leach also I don't see why either Other than Mc Kid wanted some seed players in here to show the old timers what he means to do..

I saw that Leach was going to ask for his release after hearing the news.. I guess they granted it.. so he can get out in the FA pool right away.. I think that he will find a job soon..

frauschieze
03-03-2009, 06:12 PM
Hey I like Leach also I don't see why either Other than Mc Kid wanted some seed players in here to show the old timers what he means to do..

I saw that Leach was going to ask for his release after hearing the news.. I guess they granted it.. so he can get out in the FA pool right away.. I think that he will find a job soon..

I hope he does. Any team and community would be lucky to get him. I hope he signs for a zillion dollars. :D

Den21vsBal19
03-03-2009, 06:13 PM
Hey I like Leach also I don't see why either Other than Mc Kid wanted some seed players in here to show the old timers what he means to do..

I saw that Leach was going to ask for his release after hearing the news.. I guess they granted it.. so he can get out in the FA pool right away.. I think that he will find a job soon..
Hope so, he's been a diamond for us

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 06:14 PM
Yes, he is too tied to his system. Eventually everybody figures out what your doing and they stop you. He won't be here for his third year maybe even his second year. This season will be a disaster. He was absolutely the wrong choice for coach. Bowlen should have brought in a defensive guy and left the offensive coaches in place, why fix what is not broke. I would have gladly taken Spag's 4-3 or Ryan's 46 over Nolan's 3-4 anyday. McDaniel's is too young to take on the responsibilites of a HC and is proving it daily. All he has is Bellick's playbook--and that's it, what else has he done?

Lex is that you?

Who care about his playbook he will make it work and we will get better. There is little doubt in my mind about that..

Will all of our super studs remain studs.. Who knows but NE and there coaches/players have a proven track record since Craft bought the team.. In spite of a couple different coaching changes and this last one well been one one more consistent since 2000 than they have been..

Three Lombardi's and maybe could have had another last year had it not been for a freak play in the first quarter to their HOF QB..

Medford Bronco
03-03-2009, 06:17 PM
I hope he does. Any team and community would be lucky to get him. I hope he signs for a zillion dollars. :D

maybe you can deliver it to him ;)

shank
03-03-2009, 06:21 PM
i'm surprised that there are so few people who are mad about the leach/paxton thing. it's blatant cronyism, and only like 4 of us here care. i'm honestly more mad about the leach thing than the cutler thing, but the cutler thing blew up more as far as discussion...

BeefStew25
03-03-2009, 06:24 PM
This is the stuff we have to weed through and really hope doesnt get posted. NOTHING has happened to prove one way or another if any of this is a failure and suddenly, not only is McDaniels offense a failure...but now Nolan's defense is too.

Seriously people...can we try just a little bit to stick with the stuff we have evidence of? Is it that hard?

Threads I don't agree with I choose not to post in. You should try it sometime. All the mod spots are taken up.

jrelway
03-03-2009, 06:29 PM
lol

frauschieze
03-03-2009, 06:36 PM
i'm surprised that there are so few people who are mad about the leach/paxton thing. it's blatant cronyism, and only like 4 of us here care. i'm honestly more mad about the leach thing than the cutler thing, but the cutler thing blew up more as far as discussion...

Maybe I'm getting more behind this scenes because EVERYONE knows I'm pissed about the Leach thing, but there are a lot more than just four of us who are upset. Rest easy, a lot of people are pissed about it, or it's given them great pause and trepidation.

In my own eyes, that one signing is enough for me to greatly distrust McMoron, not because Leach was my favorite player but because of the situation. He'll have to do a lot of things right to actually gain my respect as a fan. So far, he hasn't been doing that well.

BeefStew25
03-03-2009, 06:37 PM
If Lonnie Longsnopper semi-flubs once, it is going to be a McNugget BBQ.

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 06:44 PM
Maybe I'm getting more behind this scenes because EVERYONE knows I'm pissed about the Leach thing, but there are a lot more than just four of us who are upset. Rest easy, a lot of people are pissed about it, or it's given them great pause and trepidation.

In my own eyes, that one signing is enough for me to greatly distrust McMoron, not because Leach was my favorite player but because of the situation. He'll have to do a lot of things right to actually gain my respect as a fan. So far, he hasn't been doing that well.

Look at it as bringing in some of the programs disciples.. The folks from NE and PHL all come from the same tree there are NO primadonna on those teams if they do not buy into the team concept they are traded or let go..

TO lasted how long in PHL, gone..

Even Moss and Harrison are disciples now anyone ever think Moss would be a team player? Think of all the players that have went to NE even after being me players those that did and changed stayed those that did not are gone..

So why did we get PHL and NE players for the most part? they are old team concept players..

Hey it has worked for both PHL and NE for how many years.. I believe I'll give Mc Kid the benefit of the doubt.. He comes from great stock.. I think I get why Pat was so impressed..

shank
03-03-2009, 06:46 PM
yeah, cause leach was a real prima donna :confused:

Ziggy
03-03-2009, 06:57 PM
Leach was a great long-snapper for the Denver Broncos. Not only was he spot-on on his snaps, but he seemed to always be in coverage also. Thus far, it's the only signing in FA that I don't understand. I've loved the rest of them. The only thing that I can think of, is that coach McD wanted to free up a TE slot on the roster, but that may be a reach.

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 07:13 PM
yeah, cause leach was a real prima donna :confused:


No because Mc Kid Wants his TYPE of players on the team.

Leachs replacement just happened to be available luck of the draw..

He can't take to many folks from NE..:laugh:

Was he worth what he was paid I do not think so..

BUT maybe JUST maybe Mc Kid knows something we do not..

BeefStew25
03-03-2009, 07:15 PM
No because Mc Kid Wants his TYPE of players on the team.

Leachs replacement just happened to be available luck of the draw..

He can't take to many folks from NE..:laugh:

Was he worth what he was paid I do not think so..

BUT maybe JUST maybe Mc Kid knows something we do not..

Like, the spin on the snap was at a higher RPM than Leaches?

Like I said, show me where Leach screwed up. And the first time Lonnie does, I am going to get my pound of flesh from you.

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 07:18 PM
Like, the spin on the snap was at a higher RPM than Leaches?

Like I said, show me where Leach screwed up. And the first time Lonnie does, I am going to get my pound of flesh from you.

Hey remember I have defended Leach for ever going back to Mania..

It does not make sense to me OTHER than the LS from NE was available.

BeefStew25
03-03-2009, 07:21 PM
Hey remember I have defended Leach for ever going back to Mania..

It does not make sense to me OTHER than the LS from NE was available.

If Lonnie screws up, I am coming after you, Jr. Mike Troop will find you, mark my words.

Lonestar
03-03-2009, 07:48 PM
If Lonnie screws up, I am coming after you, Jr. Mike Troop will find you, mark my words.

this almost sounds like threat on a MOD.. how much time off do you want..:laugh:

Simple Jaded
03-03-2009, 09:35 PM
I was really excited to see the new offense before all the trade nonsense, I'm hoping we see the offense that McDenials ran against the Broncos in their 08 matchup, a heavy dose of the ZBS run game.

Without Cutler it will/would not be nearly as exciting for me.......