Cutler asked for a trade?

[Flatinum]

From Peter King's Monday Morning QB - take it for what it's worth -

"I heard one other interesting thing Sunday: Cutler asked for a trade shortly after the Broncos lost offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates -- Cutler's confidant -- to USC after the season. So maybe both sides need to go into marriage counseling here".

[BeefStew25]

Wait, hold on, you weren't in the room.....

[GEM]

I heard the sky turns green on Environmental Day.

[claymore]

From Peter King's Monday Morning QB - take it for what it's worth -

"I heard one other interesting thing Sunday: Cutler asked for a trade shortly after the Broncos lost offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates -- Cutler's confidant -- to USC after the season. So maybe both sides need to go into marriage counseling here".

If this is indeed fact the Broncos have bigger problems than a pissed off QB. They need to keep stuff in house.

This is the first time Ive ever felt like a bengals fan. No offense King.

[Medford Bronco]

I heard the sky turns green on Environmental Day.

Did Al Gore tell you this :lol:

[Dirk]

Did Al Gore tell you this :lol:

I think I heard that....he changed the sky and other things right after he invented the internet. :lol:

[GEM]

Did Al Gore tell you this :lol:

Shhhhh Med, I gotta keep my sources secret.


:lol:

[Flatinum]

One thing we learned over the past few days is that Cutler is a crybaby.

So I don't think that it's so far fetched that he asked for a trade after his favourite coach left the team.

[Northman]

lol

[turftoad]

Among the many compelling nuggets in Peter King’s MMQB column is a disclosure that Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler had asked to be traded weeks before the team tried to comply with his request.
That’s right. Per King, Cutler requested to be dealt after quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates bolted for USC.

So the fact that Cutler is claiming outrage in the wake of the recent near-miss effort to give him what he wanted could be part of a broader plan to get out of Denver.

This way, he looks like the victim instead of the villain, and perhaps the media and the fans will put enough pressure on the team to force the front office to find a suitor.

[GEM]

One thing we learned over the past few days is that Cutler is a crybaby.

So I don't think that it's so far fetched that he asked for a trade after his favourite coach left the team.

Maybe not so far fetched....but the media has been known to start sandstorms over nothing just for the sake of ratings.

[Medford Bronco]

Maybe not so far fetched....but the media has been known to start sandstorms over nothing just for the sake of ratings.

The liberal media sucks so it would not suprise me at all either

[CoachChaz]

At this point, who knows which side of the story is to blame for anything. Either way, it's obvious that Jay doesnt want to be here, so let him have his way. I'd rather take 3 years to groom a new QB than put up with this shit for 3.

[OB]

Me personally, Im gonna wait for everything to come out before I start judging anyone - lets face it though, we will never ever know the real truth

[Flatinum]

All I'm saying is everyone is all over McDaniels for all the rumors, hearsay, information....etc surrounding the "trade talks" this weekend.

Jay didn't do himself any favors by acting like Lady Tom over this. By his actions alone (spoiled little crybaby), him asking for a trade when his favorite coach (es) left and got fired is not so far fetched.

[CoachChaz]

It's easy to see how this could all be a master plan to get traded. I wont say I agree with the conspiracy theory, just like Im not going to automatically assume McD wanted to trade Jay.

But nevertheless, Jay isnt happy and isnt going to be happy and his whining and selfishness just doesnt make for a good leader. Again...3 years grooming a new QB is better than 3 years of unjustified drama.

[Northman]

Not when you were hired to win right away. McD wasnt hired to win 3 years down the road. If that were the case we were better off keeping Shanahan.

[GEM]

I guess we'd all be ok with finding out that the "new" boss didn't find our services to be of their needs? That they wanted to bring in their guy from the other company. I think it's fair for Jay to be a bit pissed off, because I would be if I were in his position. Especially if it's true that his first idea that there was even a consideration was on the internet.

Just like all of Jay's other temper tantrums, this too shall pass. It has a lot more to do with how McDoogie handles it from this point forward.

[Medford Bronco]

It's easy to see how this could all be a master plan to get traded. I wont say I agree with the conspiracy theory, just like Im not going to automatically assume McD wanted to trade Jay.

But nevertheless, Jay isnt happy and isnt going to be happy and his whining and selfishness just doesnt make for a good leader. Again...3 years grooming a new QB is better than 3 years of unjustified drama.

and it was proven last season that you can make the playoffs with a few changes and not a Franchise QB immediately. Just look at Miami.
they went from 1-15 to 11-5 with Pennington.

a good defense is always more important than a good offense.

we shall see what happens and I for one am not giving Mr I have a stronger arm than Elway a free pass.

Prove it that you can be a winner and if you need to do it elsewhere fine.

I Just want Denver to get better and dont care who the QB is if we win another Championship someday.

Also I am not going to say McD sucks. Based on what, no games coached.

He accomplished a lot last year with a career backup who was lucky to not get cut in the preseason. I am thinking he knows how to evaluate QBs better than most on this message board and am going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see some after FA is completed and after the draft.

[Shazam!]

Jesus that is one line I am so sick of hearing 'better off keeping Shanahan...' Nobody can guarantee there'd have been any kind of reasonable improvement on defense regardless of who was brought in on defense as long as that jackass Slowick was retained. Not to mention the same leaderless, uninspired, undisciplined play. We all have to stop thinking about the past and think about how to move forward here, with or without Cutler.

If he wants to stay fine. If he wanted to go when his babysitter Bates was gone, ?!@# him and let him walk. We have arguably as good as a QB guy in McD as we did with Shanahan.

I root for the Organization first, players and staff second.

[claymore]

It's easy to see how this could all be a master plan to get traded. I wont say I agree with the conspiracy theory, just like Im not going to automatically assume McD wanted to trade Jay.

But nevertheless, Jay isnt happy and isnt going to be happy and his whining and selfishness just doesnt make for a good leader. Again...3 years grooming a new QB is better than 3 years of unjustified drama.

You are making Jay out to be a bitch when these are all issues started by someone else.

Shannahan firing.... Not his fault
Rivers being an moron...... Not his fault
Trade rumors...... Not his fault....
Asking for a trade..... complete rumor..... with no known evidence to support it.

Cutler was asked how he felt on three of the four things above....... As for shannahan, he stated he doesnt understand it, and hopefully Bates stays. On Rivers he said some things were said and done, and he doesnt like Rivers...
On the trade rumors, he said he was shocked and hurt. He also said his relationship with the Coach took a step back, but things can be mended.

How in the hell is he a whiner? How is that selfish?

[Northman]

and it was proven last season that you can make the playoffs with a few changes and not a Franchise QB immediately. Just look at Miami.
they went from 1-15 to 11-5 with Pennington.

a good defense is always more important than a good offense.

we shall see what happens and I for one am not giving Mr I have a stronger arm than Elway a free pass.

Prove it that you can be a winner and if you need to do it elsewhere fine.

I Just want Denver to get better and dont care who the QB is if we win another Championship someday.

Also I am not going to say McD sucks. Based on what, no games coached.

He accomplished a lot last year with a career backup who was lucky to not get cut in the preseason. I am thinking he knows how to evaluate QBs better than most on this message board and am going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see some after FA is completed and after the draft.

Wow, i didnt realize he was the HC of New England.

[NightTrainLayne]

If we only knew the truth.

If Cutler asked for a trade after we let Bates go, can we really criticize McDaniels for "listening" to a trade offer? I think not.

Of course, we don't know if that's true. We also don't know the extent the McDaniels either listened to actively sought a trade.

I just know one thing. If Cutler asked to be traded after Bates was let go that was plain stupid, and if he did that he better back off of whining about any trade-offers that McDaniels listened to, or he'll look like a fool.

Now we learn that the meeting scheduled between Cutler and the top Brass has been cancelled and not expected to be rescheduled. Did the brass communicate this same thought process to Cutler? Be quiet or we'll talk about your trade request?

If it's true that Cutler requested this, and it just now came out as a rumor reported by King, then you have to admire the Broncos keeping it quiet all this time as a favor to Cutler, and it says a lot about their commitment to Cutler, otherwise they could have blabbed it all over the place and made Cutler look like a fool for the past month.

But, alas, we don't know any of the truth really. All we know is that there's some serious friction between the parties right now.

[CoachChaz]

I think people are sometimes too enamored with the big talent player than the smart one. Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman...how many impressive tools did these guys have? Were they mobile? Did they have a cannon arm? or did they just win games regardless of skill?

[Medford Bronco]

Wow, i didnt realize he was the HC of New England.

:lol: you know what I meant. ;)

[claymore]

and it was proven last season that you can make the playoffs with a few changes and not a Franchise QB immediately. Just look at Miami.
they went from 1-15 to 11-5 with Pennington.

a good defense is always more important than a good offense.

we shall see what happens and I for one am not giving Mr I have a stronger arm than Elway a free pass.

Prove it that you can be a winner and if you need to do it elsewhere fine.

I Just want Denver to get better and dont care who the QB is if we win another Championship someday.

Also I am not going to say McD sucks. Based on what, no games coached.

He accomplished a lot last year with a career backup who was lucky to not get cut in the preseason. I am thinking he knows how to evaluate QBs better than most on this message board and am going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see some after FA is completed and after the draft.

Mcdaniels sucks because he has had the reigns for a month and he has already caused more controversy than Shannahan did in 14 years.

[CoachChaz]

You are making Jay out to be a bitch when these are all issues started by someone else.

Shannahan firing.... Not his fault
Rivers being an moron...... Not his fault
Trade rumors...... Not his fault....
Asking for a trade..... complete rumor..... with no known evidence to support it.

Cutler was asked how he felt on three of the four things above....... As for shannahan, he stated he doesnt understand it, and hopefully Bates stays. On Rivers he said some things were said and done, and he doesnt like Rivers...
On the trade rumors, he said he was shocked and hurt. He also said his relationship with the Coach took a step back, but things can be mended.

How in the hell is he a whiner? How is that selfish?

Shannahan firing.... Not his fault...but whining about it was
Rivers being an moron...... Not his fault...not being able to let it go and whining about it is
Trade rumors...... Not his fault....Assuming McD pursued them and whining about it is
Asking for a trade..... complete rumor..... with no known evidence to support it.

[Medford Bronco]

I think people are sometimes too enamored with the big talent player than the smart one. Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman...how many impressive tools did these guys have? Were they mobile? Did they have a cannon arm? or did they just win games regardless of skill?

Montana had the least amount of "raw talent" of these guys.

Cuter has "raw talent" over Brady and even Peyton Manning.
What Cutler does not have currently is the decision making of these future
HOF Qbs. Will he get it or will he constantly force the ball because of his strong arm. who knows we sure dont right now. Prove it on the field and not in the media. Rivers does not have the "raw talent" of Cutler but sure is a much better QB based both on stats and w/l and I cant stand the guy but respect what he has done so far in the NFL

[Northman]

If we only knew the truth.

If Cutler asked for a trade after we let Bates go, can we really criticize McDaniels for "listening" to a trade offer? I think not.

Of course, we don't know if that's true. We also don't know the extent the McDaniels either listened to actively sought a trade.

I just know one thing. If Cutler asked to be traded after Bates was let go that was plain stupid, and if he did that he better back off of whining about any trade-offers that McDaniels listened to, or he'll look like a fool.

Now we learn that the meeting scheduled between Cutler and the top Brass has been cancelled and not expected to be rescheduled. Did the brass communicate this same thought process to Cutler? Be quiet or we'll talk about your trade request?

If it's true that Cutler requested this, and it just now came out as a rumor reported by King, then you have to admire the Broncos keeping it quiet all this time as a favor to Cutler, and it says a lot about their commitment to Cutler, otherwise they could have blabbed it all over the place and made Cutler look like a fool for the past month.

But, alas, we don't know any of the truth really. All we know is that there's some serious friction between the parties right now.


There's nothing to substantiate that rumor about Cutler requesting a trade. We do know however that McDipshit and company did entertain the idea of trading Jay but it got nixed by Xanders at the last minute.

[CoachChaz]

Mcdaniels sucks because he has had the reigns for a month and he has already caused more controversy than Shannahan did in 14 years.

Because he listened to trade offers for a guy that doesnt seem to want to be there?

[Medford Bronco]

Shannahan firing.... Not his fault...but whining about it was
Rivers being an moron...... Not his fault...not being able to let it go and whining about it is
Trade rumors...... Not his fault....Assuming McD pursued them and whining about it is
Asking for a trade..... complete rumor..... with no known evidence to support it.

great post and something that all the Cutler lovers should look at and digest.

[claymore]

Because he listened to trade offers for a guy that doesnt seem to want to be there?

Peter King said that. Jay Cutler has not said that in an interview. And yes he does suck. How do you let the news leak about something so freakin important and delicate.

We might as well send our player rankings in the draft to the Denver post.

[NightTrainLayne]

There's nothing to substantiate that rumor about Cutler requesting a trade. We do know however that McDipshit and company did entertain the idea of trading Jay but it got nixed by Xanders at the last minute.

That's why I said twice we don't know the truth.

But, one thing I've learned: Rumors that leak about actions from a month ago are more often right than rumors that leak about actions that happened yesterday. I am more inclined to believe this rumor now than I would have been a month ago when it supposedly happened. If the Broncos were going to leak such a thing it would have made more sense for it to come out a month ago when it was happening.

But like I and you said, it's all speculation. None of us know what happened either way.

[claymore]

Shannahan firing.... Not his fault...but whining about it was
Rivers being an moron...... Not his fault...not being able to let it go and whining about it is
Trade rumors...... Not his fault....Assuming McD pursued them and whining about it is
Asking for a trade..... complete rumor..... with no known evidence to support it.

Post one comment of his that can be construed as whining.

[BRONCOSFREAK765]

I say if he wants to go, let him. I hear that Kurt Warner has growing interest from an unnamed team. Would be great to have an extra couple picks and a seasoned vet to run the offense for the next 2 yrs.

[CoachChaz]

Post one comment of his that can be construed as whining.

Right as soon as someone shows me proof that anyone in the office actively pursued a trade with him as opposed to listening and declining.

[Medford Bronco]

I say if he wants to go, let him. I hear that Kurt Warner has growing interest from an unnamed team. Would be great to have an extra couple picks and a seasoned vet to run the offense for the next 2 yrs.

Yes, Warner is a class act big time and would not constantly whine about everything. I would rather him and groom a new QB in the process and hopefully be decent in the interm and maybe make the playoffs ala Miami.

[topscribe]

Shannahan firing.... Not his fault...but whining about it was
Rivers being an moron...... Not his fault...not being able to let it go and whining about it is
Trade rumors...... Not his fault....Assuming McD pursued them and whining about it is
Asking for a trade..... complete rumor..... with no known evidence to support it.

To me, it's refreshing: a brutally honest person who says what's on his mind.

Seems a rare commodity these days . . . :coffee:

-----

[CoachChaz]

To me, it's refreshing: a brutally honest person who says what's on his mind.

Seems a rare commodity these days . . . :coffee:

-----

If Jay's actions are the definition of honesty, then sign me a liar.

[turftoad]

Right as soon as someone shows me proof that anyone in the office actively pursued a trade with him as opposed to listening and declining.

Agreed. However,as Mike Golic said this morning. How did Cutlers name even get out there? Teams deemed him as untouchable.

I believe McKid wanted Cassell so bad that he initiated the trade talks or Cutlers name wouldn't have been out there.

[CoachChaz]

Agreed. However,as Mike Golic said this morning. How did Cutlers name even get out there? Teams deemed him as untouchable.

I believe McKid wanted Cassell so bad that he initiated the trade talks or Cutlers mane wouldn't have been out there.

Here's a possibility.

I'm the Detroit GM. I see that Cassel is available for trade and I know McD did good things with him. So, I wonder if maybe he would be interested in trading Jay if given ammo to land Cassel. I know I wont have to give him my #1 pick, because they wouldnt be able to afford that, so I can get a Pro-Bowl QB for a 2nd round pick. let me give them a call and see what they think.

I make the call to Xanders...he squashes the deal.


Is it a complete IMpossibility that things could have went down something like that?

[NightTrainLayne]

The more I think about this, the more this idea of Cutler asking for a trade previously when Bates was let go helps all the pieces fit.

1. McDaniels "listened" or actively sought to trade Cutler for Cassel, why? Anyone with half a clue understands Cutler has more talent and ability than Cassel, why would McDaniels make such a bone-headed play, or even "listen" to an offer? Why? Because Cutler asked to be traded earlier.

2. After the news broke why did the FO go into media black-out lock down mode? Why? Because Cutler had asked to be traded previously, and McDaniels figured saying nothing would be better than getting into a verbal war with Cutler over the airwaves and in news-print.

3. Xanders and McD have said many times that Cutler is their guy and they don't want to trade him. Why would they say that if they were seeking a trade? Why? Because Cutler is the one who asked to be traded.

4. A meeting between the top brass and Cutler was scheduled and then post-poned and now we hear it won't happen at all? Why? Because Cutler is the one who wants to be traded, he has not interest in hearing why they want him here, because he is looking for a way out of Denver.

5. There were reports of visits with the Vikings AFTER McD and Xanders said that Cutler was their guy and that they didn't want to trade him. Why? Because Cutler is the one forcing their hand asking for a trade.

6. Now, after all this is going on, Peter King reports a rumor that Cutler asked to be traded a month ago when Bates was let go. Why would that come out now instead of a month ago? Why? Because the Broncos finally don't have much incentive to keep that card so close to their vests anymore.


It's all speculation, I have no idea where the truth really lies, but in this scenario a lot of pieces that didn't fit before, or didn't make sense before suddenly fall into place.

[Northman]

Here's a possibility.

I'm the Detroit GM. I see that Cassel is available for trade and I know McD did good things with him. So, I wonder if maybe he would be interested in trading Jay if given ammo to land Cassel. I know I wont have to give him my #1 pick, because they wouldnt be able to afford that, so I can get a Pro-Bowl QB for a 2nd round pick. let me give them a call and see what they think.

I make the call to Xanders...he squashes the deal.


Is it a complete IMpossibility that things could have went down something like that?

Im guessing that is exactly how it went down.

[frauschieze]

The more I think about this, the more this idea of Cutler asking for a trade previously when Bates was let go helps all the pieces fit.

1. McDaniels "listened" or actively sought to trade Cutler for Cassel, why? Anyone with half a clue understands Cutler has more talent and ability than Cassel, why would McDaniels make such a bone-headed play, or even "listen" to an offer? Why? Because Cutler asked to be traded earlier.

2. After the news broke why did the FO go into media black-out lock down mode? Why? Because Cutler had asked to be traded previously, and McDaniels figured saying nothing would be better than getting into a verbal war with Cutler over the airwaves and in news-print.

3. Xanders and McD have said many times that Cutler is their guy and they don't want to trade him. Why would they say that if they were seeking a trade? Why? Because Cutler is the one who asked to be traded.

4. A meeting between the top brass and Cutler was scheduled and then post-poned and now we hear it won't happen at all? Why? Because Cutler is the one who wants to be traded, he has not interest in hearing why they want him here, because he is looking for a way out of Denver.

5. There were reports of visits with the Vikings AFTER McD and Xanders said that Cutler was their guy and that they didn't want to trade him. Why? Because Cutler is the one forcing their hand asking for a trade.

6. Now, after all this is going on, Peter King reports a rumor that Cutler asked to be traded a month ago when Bates was let go. Why would that come out now instead of a month ago? Why? Because the Broncos finally don't have much incentive to keep that card so close to their vests anymore.


It's all speculation, I have no idea where the truth really lies, but in this scenario a lot of pieces that didn't fit before, or didn't make sense before suddenly fall into place.

I hate that this makes sense. Someone wake me up when the off season is over.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Another thing to think about in all of this. With McDaniels system do you really need a QB with a great arm? What has made Brady great is that he is smart, has great vision, and incredibly accurate (all of these things have been problems for Cutler at times). I didn't watch Cassels enough to know if he is a QB more like Brady or Cutler, but I would guess Brady.

That being said, maybe McDaniels likes Cutler's ability, but knows he can run the same type of offense with another type of QB. If you can get a lot out of a trade, it might make sense and if your QB is forcing your hand it might make more sense.

Just a thought.

[CoachChaz]

Im guessing that is exactly how it went down.

I mean, I have no idea how anything happened or if Jay ever asked for a trade, but I just find it interesting that "unnamed sources" made these claims, then McD says we never pursued a trade and suddenly the "sources" have nothing to say.

[tomjonesrocks]

I think people are sometimes too enamored with the big talent player than the smart one. Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman...how many impressive tools did these guys have? Were they mobile? Did they have a cannon arm? or did they just win games regardless of skill?

Sounds like the argument for Griese--and I hated that era. I want a talented QB here.

[Northman]

Another thing to think about in all of this. With McDaniels system do you really need a QB with a great arm? What has made Brady great is that he is smart, has great vision, and incredibly accurate (all of these things have been problems for Cutler at times). I didn't watch Cassels enough to know if he is a QB more like Brady or Cutler, but I would guess Brady.

That being said, maybe McDaniels likes Cutler's ability, but knows he can run the same type of offense with another type of QB. If you can get a lot out of a trade, it might make sense and if your QB is forcing your hand it might make more sense.

Just a thought.


See, i dont even mind that. If McD thinks he can win with a differnet QB than great. What i dont like is the sneakiness about it. Just be up front with the kid. If you are entertaining ideas of trade senarios just tell the kid and be honest. Dont wait until he finds out from outside sources that your willing to shop him around. Thats just unprofessional.

[claymore]

Right as soon as someone shows me proof that anyone in the office actively pursued a trade with him as opposed to listening and declining.

Right now Cutlers comments are the only thing that is a fact. We may never know what really happened.

And Im just confused why his comments are considered as whiny. He has just told the truth. He hasnt publicly asked for a trade, he hasnt said anything bad about the organization, the Head Coach.... Nothing. He has done nothing wrong.

[BigDaddyBronco]

See, i dont even mind that. If McD thinks he can win with a differnet QB than great. What i dont like is the sneakiness about it. Just be up front with the kid. If you are entertaining ideas of trade senarios just tell the kid and be honest. Dont wait until he finds out from outside sources that your willing to shop him around. Thats just unprofessional.
But we all know that Cutler can't keep his mouth shut and wears his heart on his sleeve, so you have to be sneaky or it blows up into.....this!!!!!

I think the key is that Xanders and McDaniesl need to learn how to play the game better.

[claymore]

I mean, I have no idea how anything happened or if Jay ever asked for a trade, but I just find it interesting that "unnamed sources" made these claims, then McD says we never pursued a trade and suddenly the "sources" have nothing to say.

I think this is the main point we agree on. I think it is a conspiracy... Maybe Mcdaniels had more trust in Belicheat than he should have.

[Northman]

But we all know that Cutler can't keep his mouth shut and wears his heart on his sleeve, so you have to be sneaky or it blows up into.....this!!!!!

I think the key is that Xanders and McDaniesl need to learn how to play the game better.

I dont know, i generally like to think if you give someone the chance and be honest with them that it can run smoothly. I just think this was the worse way to go about it. At least i wouldnt be as upset with management if they had just been up front about it. Then Jay really couldnt say anything.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Right now Cutlers comments are the only thing that is a fact. We may never know what really happened.

And Im just confused why his comments are considered as whiny. He has just told the truth. He hasnt publicly asked for a trade, he hasnt said anything bad about the organization, the Head Coach.... Nothing. He has done nothing wrong.
Cutler always tells the truth, but he also tells you how he is feeling. When you do that a lot, publicly, you look like a drama queen.

If he did this in private, there is no story and we are none the wiser.

[turftoad]

Here's a possibility.

I'm the Detroit GM. I see that Cassel is available for trade and I know McD did good things with him. So, I wonder if maybe he would be interested in trading Jay if given ammo to land Cassel. I know I wont have to give him my #1 pick, because they wouldnt be able to afford that, so I can get a Pro-Bowl QB for a 2nd round pick. let me give them a call and see what they think.

I make the call to Xanders...he squashes the deal.


Is it a complete IMpossibility that things could have went down something like that?

Very well could be. That said, I don't think so. Look, McKid has made it no secret that he has man love for his former Pats players. Him and Cutler didn't see eye to eye before all of this went down. If he had a chance to go after Cassell I think he would have and did.

He's showing his immaturity on how to deal with these situations.

Like I posted in another thread.
McKid needs to have that tatoo of the Pats logo removed from his ass and get an Orange and Blue one.
We're not the Pats, we're the Broncos.
Bozo, McKid needs to start realizing that.

[CoachChaz]

Sounds like the argument for Griese--and I hated that era. I want a talented QB here.

I guess it can be spun any way someone wants it. I just cant recall the last super-mobile, big armed, ultra-talented QB that's won a Super Bowl.

[NightTrainLayne]

But we all know that Cutler can't keep his mouth shut and wears his heart on his sleeve, so you have to be sneaky or it blows up into.....this!!!!!

I think the key is that Xanders and McDaniesl need to learn how to play the game better.


I dont know, i generally like to think if you give someone the chance and be honest with them that it can run smoothly. I just think this was the worse way to go about it. At least i wouldnt be as upset with management if they had just been up front about it. Then Jay really couldnt say anything.

But once again, if Cutler did indeed asked to be traded a month ago it helps this piece fit too. Why not talk with Cutler beforehand? Because Cutler's the one who asked for the trade, no need to talk with him again.



Disclaimer: I'm still not sure I believe King's report, but it's funny how most any question about the Broncos FO wacky behavior this weekend fits with that report.

[Northman]

But once again, if Cutler did indeed asked to be traded a month ago it helps this piece fit too. Why not talk with Cutler beforehand? Because Cutler's the one who asked for the trade, no need to talk with him again.



Disclaimer: I'm still not sure I believe King's report, but it's funny how most any question about the Broncos FO wacky behavior this weekend fits with that report.

I personally dont believe that report so i guess we will have to agree to disagree. :D

[BigDaddyBronco]

I dont know, i generally like to think if you give someone the chance and be honest with them that it can run smoothly. I just think this was the worse way to go about it. At least i wouldnt be as upset with management if they had just been up front about it. Then Jay really couldnt say anything.
Maybe with most guys, with Jay he says stuff publicly like, "Well I hope Jeremy Bates is retained as my OC." Great, feel that way, tell management that, but don't make a big deal about it to the media. When you do stuff like that, they lose trust that you'll keep your lips shut or it hurts your trade value, because you "are pissed at management."

[claymore]

Cutler always tells the truth, but he also tells you how he is feeling. When you do that a lot, publicly, you look like a drama queen.

If he did this in private, there is no story and we are none the wiser.

Yes he does tell the truth. But at 23 if I was called by my agent or freinds or reporters and told that my new boss wanted to trade me for a lesser worker, I would also say I would be shocked etc...

On the flip side Cutler needs to take it as a compliment that other teams wanted him so bad.

And the Broncos need to listen to the Cinderella song "Dont know what you got till its gone".

[Medford Bronco]

I guess it can be spun any way someone wants it. I just cant recall the last super-mobile, big armed, ultra-talented QB that's won a Super Bowl.

Elway

[NightTrainLayne]

I personally dont believe that report so i guess we will have to agree to disagree. :D

And I put a disclaimer in there that I don't take it as Gospel either.

But I am intrigued at how well it fits everything I've seen about the situation. It makes everything that previously didn't make sense, kind of make sense. I'll be curious to see if this gets corroborated somewhere down the line.

[Northman]

Maybe with most guys, with Jay he says stuff publicly like, "Well I hope Jeremy Bates is retained as my OC." Great, feel that way, tell management that, but don't make a big deal about it to the media. When you do stuff like that, they lose trust that you'll keep your lips shut or it hurts your trade value, because you "are pissed at management."

Well, lets be fair. He's a young kid who just lost a HC he was fond of. He also just lost a OC he was quite fond of. Those are normal feelings and to be honest its up to McD and company to reassure him that they will help him continue to progress as a player. Im not sure they have done that. Im not saying that Jay's honesty in public is the best thing for him but if your a guy getting hired for a job you have to know what your getting into and what those players are all about. And now, instead of trying to get together with the kid you end up taking phone calls about trading him and all that will do is further the resentment that is building up in Jay. Dude, if i played with a Coach that i truly liked and all of sudden he was canned i would feel the same way.

[red98]

Maybe with most guys, with Jay he says stuff publicly like, "Well I hope Jeremy Bates is retained as my OC." Great, feel that way, tell management that, but don't make a big deal about it to the media. When you do stuff like that, they lose trust that you'll keep your lips shut or it hurts your trade value, because you "are pissed at management."

Yeah at this point I wish the Broncos would copy the NE model and not comment on this crap again. I think Doogie made a rookie mistake in how he went about this and Jay made some mistakes as well.

From here on out though I hope both Jay and Xman-Doogie just say "no comment" when asked.

xman-doogie: "Jay is our QB"

Jay: I'm here to win football games"


That's all I want to hear from any of them.

I'd like to go back to wondering who our NT is going to be etc..

[Poet]

If this is indeed fact the Broncos have bigger problems than a pissed off QB. They need to keep stuff in house.

This is the first time Ive ever felt like a bengals fan. No offense King.

Don't worry, I'll fight off Ki-Jana and Akili for you. :salute:

It will get better though. While everyday I find myself thinking that Cutler is a stud player and a little girl, I don't think you will trade him. I doubt you will need to as well.

Winning cures everything.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Well, lets be fair. He's a young kid who just lost a HC he was fond of. He also just lost a OC he was quite fond of. Those are normal feelings and to be honest its up to McD and company to reassure him that they will help him continue to progress as a player. Im not sure they have done that. Im not saying that Jay's honesty in public is the best thing for him but if your a guy getting hired for a job you have to know what your getting into and what those players are all about. And now, instead of trying to get together with the kid you end up taking phone calls about trading him and all that will do is further the resentment that is building up in Jay. Dude, if i played with a Coach that i truly liked and all of sudden he was canned i would feel the same way.
I can't believe I'm going to say this...

Jay should learn something from Philip Rivers. When everything broke down in SD and the whole coaching staff left you didn't hear anything from Rivers and he was about the same age as Jay and has done some boneheaded stuff as well. Like I said, Jay needs to learn to not tell the media what they want to hear.

[claymore]

If Cutler has a Pro Bowl year for Denver this year it settles the Jay vs Jake arguments.

[Northman]

I can't believe I'm going to say this...

Jay should learn something from Philip Rivers. When everything broke down in SD and the whole coaching staff left you didn't hear anything from Rivers and he was about the same age as Jay and has done some boneheaded stuff as well. Like I said, Jay needs to learn to not tell the media what they want to hear.

Absolutely.

I hated the way things went down with Rivers and Cutler. But i applaud Rivers for laughing it off now and moving on. Jay hasnt done that. Jay has things he needs to work on but that really doesnt excuse McD for trying to shop him around with letting him in on it either.

[claymore]

Absolutely.

I hated the way things went down with Rivers and Cutler. But i applaud Rivers for laughing it off now and moving on. Jay hasnt done that. Jay has things he needs to work on but that really doesnt excuse McD for trying to shop him around with letting him in on it either.

Real men build fence and hold grudges.

[CoachChaz]

Elway

Yeah. 10 years ago. And how much did he have left in the arm and legs? Would he have been there without TD?

I guess my point is you can be a smart game manager and still win championships as long as the system is right and you have a solid team around you.

[Poet]

I think people are sometimes too enamored with the big talent player than the smart one. Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman...how many impressive tools did these guys have? Were they mobile? Did they have a cannon arm? or did they just win games regardless of skill?

Umm. Bradshaw was a bad QB. Aikman could barely throw more TDs than INTs and had a HOF line, a HOF RB, and a HOF Wr alongside one of the greatest FBs ever.

Montana was a stud but his physical tools are underrated. Did he have a Marino arm? No, but people portray him to have a Chad Penninton arm and that is just not the case.

If Cutler is at fault here, and does not want to be a Bronco, I think you trade him. He has a ton of value, and honestly the way that he whines makes me think that if he is not constantly placated you could have a QB cancer.

[TXBRONC]

Right as soon as someone shows me proof that anyone in the office actively pursued a trade with him as opposed to listening and declining.

In others words Chaz you really have nothing?

[Medford Bronco]

Umm. Bradshaw was a bad QB. Aikman could barely throw more TDs than INTs and had a HOF line, a HOF RB, and a HOF Wr alongside one of the greatest FBs ever.

Montana was a stud but his physical tools are underrated. Did he have a Marino arm? No, but people portray him to have a Chad Penninton arm and that is just not the case.

If Cutler is at fault here, and does not want to be a Bronco, I think you trade him. He has a ton of value, and honestly the way that he whines makes me think that if he is not constantly placated you could have a QB cancer.

ouch you mean Jeff George. The QB talent wise and whiny wise that Cutler reminds me of the most :eek:

[Poet]

Right now Cutlers comments are the only thing that is a fact. We may never know what really happened.

And Im just confused why his comments are considered as whiny. He has just told the truth. He hasnt publicly asked for a trade, he hasnt said anything bad about the organization, the Head Coach.... Nothing. He has done nothing wrong.

Telling the truth is one thing, doing it publically is another. TO often told the truth. That wasn't a good thing. Chad Johnson told the truth, that wasn't a good thing. Randy Moss told the truth, that wasn't a good thing.

Sometimes a person just needs to shut their mouth.

[CoachChaz]

In others words Chaz you really have nothing?

SO I have to go back and research quotes on his previous whinings, but you and others can sit here and say you are absolutely sure that McD is at fault with this one without any proof. Are you f-ing kidding me?

If someone feels Jay hasnt proven he's been a bitch about a few things in his brief career, then maybe they are from the same ilk. I don't know...just guessing here

[TXBRONC]

Yeah. 10 years ago. And how much did he have left in the arm and legs? Would he have been there without TD?

I guess my point is you can be a smart game manager and still win championships as long as the system is right and you have a solid team around you.

There are several examples of teams that had journeyman quarterback at the very least take them to a Super Bowl and yes there are some that even won it with a journeyman quarterback, but it's extremely RARE. The ONLY team I know of that had journeyman quarterback win two Super Bowls for them is the Raiders with Jim Plunkett and that was 25 years ago. I would rather have franchise quarterback and build around him.

[Poet]

SO I have to go back and research quotes on his previous whinings, but you and others can sit here and say you are absolutely sure that McD is at fault with this one without any proof. Are you f-ing kidding me?

If someone feels Jay hasnt proven he's been a bitch about a few things in his brief career, then maybe they are from the same ilk. I don't know...just guessing here
1. Never question your star players.
2. Your star players are never at fault.
3. Your star players are better than everyone else and their star players.
4. If anything is close, you give the benefit of the doubt to your star player.

These are the rules of fandom!

[Poet]

There are several examples of teams that had journeyman quarterback at the very least take them to a Super Bowl and yes there are some that even won it with a journeyman quarterback, but it's extremely RARE. The ONLY team I know of that had journeyman quarterback win two Super Bowls for them is the Raiders with Jim Plunkett and that was 25 years ago. I would rather have franchise quarterback and build around him.

I think what people are saying is that if your franchise QB doesn't want much to do with the franchise - or at the very least demands everything to be done his way, you may want to drop him off at another franchise.

[claymore]

I think what people are saying is that if your franchise QB doesn't want much to do with the franchise - or at the very least demands everything to be done his way, you may want to drop him off at another franchise.

Winning changes everything. Cutler is to good to hand to another franchise. Everything will be fine.

[CoachChaz]

There are several examples of teams that had journeyman quarterback at the very least take them to a Super Bowl and yes there are some that even won it with a journeyman quarterback, but it's extremely RARE. The ONLY team I know of that had journeyman quarterback win two Super Bowls for them is the Raiders with Jim Plunkett and that was 25 years ago. I would rather have franchise quarterback and build around him.

But a franchise QB doesnt have to have top end physical tools. Almost everything is a system anymore and the days of the winning gunslinger are drifting away.

[weazel]

Ive been talking about Cutler's lack of composure and maturity for the last two seasons. Some on here have argued with me, but each new situation proves my point.

[CoachChaz]

Ive been talking about Cutler's lack of composure and maturity for the last two seasons. Some on here have argued with me, but each new situation proves my point.

Keep in mind, people are going to ask you for specific quotes and situations or else your comments will be rendered invalid. Trust me.

[claymore]

Ive been talking about Cutler's lack of composure and maturity for the last two seasons. Some on here have argued with me, but each new situation proves my point.
Show me a quote. Give me one example.

Keep in mind, people are going to ask you for specific quotes and situations or else your comments will be rendered invalid. Trust me.

:D

[Bronco Bible]

I heard the sky turns green on Environmental Day.

I was told it it St.Patricks day..... someone is fibbing

[topscribe]

Absolutely.

I hated the way things went down with Rivers and Cutler. But i applaud Rivers for laughing it off now and moving on. Jay hasnt done that. Jay has things he needs to work on but that really doesnt excuse McD for trying to shop him around with letting him in on it either.

Sorry, I don't applaud Phyllis for anything. He initiated that deal between them,
and now he's going to laugh it off. Like he laughs off other incidents, such as
when he taunted fans. But when he loses, he slinks off and hides. I don't
blame Cutler for continuing not to like him.

The thing McKiddie has to learn is how to handle his players. Champ probably
would have just shrugged it off . . . he's been there, done that. But you deal
with 24- and 25-year-olds differently.

That is what I was afraid of from the first: he knows his X's and O's, but you
gain people skills from experience.

-----

[omac]

Sorry, I don't applaud Phyllis for anything. He initiated that deal between them,
and now he's going to laugh it off. Like he laughs off other incidents, such as
when he taunted fans. But when he loses, he slinks off and hides. I don't
blame Cutler for continuing not to like him.

The thing McKiddie has to learn is how to handle his players. Champ probably
would have just shrugged it off . . . he's been there, done that. But you deal
with 24- and 25-year-olds differently.

That is what I was afraid of from the first: he knows his X's and O's, but you
gain people skills from experience.

-----

I just hope his people skills aren't as bad as Bobby Petrino's.

[Bronco Bible]

I guess we'd all be ok with finding out that the "new" boss didn't find our services to be of their needs? That they wanted to bring in their guy from the other company. I think it's fair for Jay to be a bit pissed off, because I would be if I were in his position. Especially if it's true that his first idea that there was even a consideration was on the internet.

Just like all of Jay's other temper tantrums, this too shall pass. It has a lot more to do with how McDoogie handles it from this point forward.

I agree in a way GEM but we are not talking about a person with a real job....this guy stand to make just as much if not more if he left so when he starts throwing fits :tsk:

[claymore]

Originally Posted by GEM
I guess we'd all be ok with finding out that the "new" boss didn't find our services to be of their needs? That they wanted to bring in their guy from the other company. I think it's fair for Jay to be a bit pissed off, because I would be if I were in his position. Especially if it's true that his first idea that there was even a consideration was on the internet.

Just like all of Jay's other temper tantrums, this too shall pass. It has a lot more to do with how McDoogie handles it from this point forward.


I agree in a way GEM but we are not talking about a person with a real job....this guy stand to make just as much if not more if he left so when he starts throwing fits :tsk:

I am naive and I guess I missed it, so can someone please show an example of Cutler being a baby, or throwing temper tantrums?

I will fully admit that I am wrong if this can be produced. The Peter king thing doesnt count because it is hearsay.

[TXBRONC]

But a franchise QB doesnt have to have top end physical tools. Almost everything is a system anymore and the days of the winning gunslinger are drifting away.

Are you trying to say that Matt Cassel is a franchise quarterback? I would strongly disagree with that. No I think most teams if they don't already have a franchise quarterback would like to have that can make all the throws. I believe you are wrong about gunslingers drifting away if that's case then why is as many three possible teams that wanted Cutler?

[rationalfan]

Here's one scenario to keep in mind while trying to understand this weekend's drama:

I'm a new coach who's younger than some of my players. How do I underscore the point that I'm in charge of this team now and you better buy into my system? Show the team that not even its biggest star is safe from examination.

[NightTrainLayne]

I am naive and I guess I missed it, so can someone please show an example of Cutler being a baby, or throwing temper tantrums?

I will fully admit that I am wrong if this can be produced. The Peter king thing doesnt count because it is hearsay.

Seriously?

I have JC as the wall-paper on my phone, but I know he whines and bitches when things don't go his way.

Just look at since the season ended.

At the end of the SD game he had a blow-up on the field with a reporter. Later criticized the defense publicly (probably deservedly).

Shanahan gets fired. "It's a mistake". . .I don't like this,

Bates: He demanded Bates be kept on staff. .. of course Bates is at USC now.

I'm a JC fan, but it's obvious that he has a touch of some whininess. It's not a fatal flaw yet though.

[broncophan]

Cassel a franchise qb......I don't think so.

Honestly......I thought Thigpen played well for the chefs last season.....not so sure Cassel is that much better than Thigpen.

[turftoad]

Sorry, I don't applaud Phyllis for anything. He initiated that deal between them,
and now he's going to laugh it off. Like he laughs off other incidents, such as
when he taunted fans. But when he loses, he slinks off and hides. I don't
blame Cutler for continuing not to like him.

The thing McKiddie has to learn is how to handle his players. Champ probably
would have just shrugged it off . . . he's been there, done that. But you deal
with 24- and 25-year-olds differently.

That is what I was afraid of from the first: he knows his X's and O's, but you
gain people skills from experience.

-----

I agree Top. He's showing his immaturity.

[TXBRONC]

I think what people are saying is that if your franchise QB doesn't want much to do with the franchise - or at the very least demands everything to be done his way, you may want to drop him off at another franchise.

King that isn't what Chaz and I are talking about.

[Poet]

King that isn't what Chaz and I are talking about.

I thought I recalled Chaz saying something along the lines of letting him go if he doesn't want to be here and 3 more years of rebuilding is better than 3 more years of this crap.

I could be wrong. I apologize if I am. :salute:

[TXBRONC]

Here's one scenario to keep in mind while trying to understand this weekend's drama:

I'm a new coach who's younger than some of my players. How do I underscore the point that I'm in charge of this team now and you better buy into my system? Show the team that not even its biggest star is safe from examination.

Here's the thing, we do know that publicly Jay was saying he was buying into McDaniels' system. So if McDaniels was just trying send a message, it may not be the one that he intended to send.

[TXBRONC]

I thought I recalled Chaz saying something along the lines of letting him go if he doesn't want to be here and 3 more years of rebuilding is better than 3 more years of this crap.

I could be wrong. I apologize if I am. :salute:

Mox Nix.

[Buff]

The more I think about this, the more this idea of Cutler asking for a trade previously when Bates was let go helps all the pieces fit.

1. McDaniels "listened" or actively sought to trade Cutler for Cassel, why? Anyone with half a clue understands Cutler has more talent and ability than Cassel, why would McDaniels make such a bone-headed play, or even "listen" to an offer? Why? Because Cutler asked to be traded earlier.

2. After the news broke why did the FO go into media black-out lock down mode? Why? Because Cutler had asked to be traded previously, and McDaniels figured saying nothing would be better than getting into a verbal war with Cutler over the airwaves and in news-print.

3. Xanders and McD have said many times that Cutler is their guy and they don't want to trade him. Why would they say that if they were seeking a trade? Why? Because Cutler is the one who asked to be traded.

4. A meeting between the top brass and Cutler was scheduled and then post-poned and now we hear it won't happen at all? Why? Because Cutler is the one who wants to be traded, he has not interest in hearing why they want him here, because he is looking for a way out of Denver.

5. There were reports of visits with the Vikings AFTER McD and Xanders said that Cutler was their guy and that they didn't want to trade him. Why? Because Cutler is the one forcing their hand asking for a trade.

6. Now, after all this is going on, Peter King reports a rumor that Cutler asked to be traded a month ago when Bates was let go. Why would that come out now instead of a month ago? Why? Because the Broncos finally don't have much incentive to keep that card so close to their vests anymore.


It's all speculation, I have no idea where the truth really lies, but in this scenario a lot of pieces that didn't fit before, or didn't make sense before suddenly fall into place.

The thing that makes no sense to me is that if Cutler really asked for a trade previously, then why in the hell would he and his agent make such a public stink about us engaging in trade talks?

[NightTrainLayne]

The thing that makes no sense to me is that if Cutler really asked for a trade previously, then why in the hell would he and his agent make such a public stink about us engaging in trade talks?

Because he asked them first to be traded, but then they convinced him that everything would be OK, and that they really wanted him here, but then when a call came in they listened to the offer.

Jay thinks that's a betrayal.

I don't, and most anyone who's been in the league a little while understands that it's not, but Jay thinks they lied to him, meanwhile he's the one who planted the idea in their head that he might potentially possibly be a liability here and they might do well to at least listen to an offer.


edit: disclaimer: I am just playing Devil's advocate here. I have no idea because I wasn't in the room.

[Drill-N-Fill]

The thing that makes no sense to me is that if Cutler really asked for a trade previously, then why in the hell would he and his agent make such a public stink about us engaging in trade talks?

My thoughts exactly. Esp with the part with Marshall and royal and Scheff raising hell if they trade me. Makes no sense. King is full of crap on this one.

[Buff]

Because he asked them first to be traded, but then they convinced him that everything would be OK, and that they really wanted him here, but then when a call came in they listened to the offer.

Jay thinks that's a betrayal.

I don't, and most anyone who's been in the league a little while understands that it's not, but Jay thinks they lied to him, meanwhile he's the one who planted the idea in their head that he might potentially possibly be a liability here and they might do well to at least listen to an offer.

That makes sense, but Bus Cook and Cutler are acting as if this came completely out of left field... Like the mere notion of a trade is so absurd they can't believe it's even being mentioned...

It seems to me that if a trade had been discussed previously, (even if the two sides had previously agreed there would be no trade), Cutler and Cook shouldn't have reacted so negatively and so publicly. I just don't think a trade was ever discussed previously, and if it was, they are even more out of line for throwing the team under the proverbial bus.

[CoachChaz]

I'll agree that it doesnt make sense to me either. Just like the assumption McD wanted to trade him for Cassel. Neither of them make sense and are likely unjustifiable rumors

[weazel]

Honestly......I thought Thigpen played well for the chefs last season.....not so sure Cassel is that much better than Thigpen.

I thought the same thing when I heard the trade

[weazel]

Keep in mind, people are going to ask you for specific quotes and situations or else your comments will be rendered invalid. Trust me.

search for weazel cutler

there are at least 20 threads... http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/search.php?searchid=862303

[dbwitadb719]

if we get rid of cutler who are they going to replace him with.

[shank]

I'll agree that it doesnt make sense to me either. Just like the assumption McD wanted to trade him for Cassel. Neither of them make sense and are likely unjustifiable rumors

i wish the meeting between cutler and the FO would just freaking happen. debunk all the rumors and clarify intentions. that's all it would take to move past this, but instead McD, pat, and xanders have all decided to ignore the situation from here on out.

i feel like if McD sat down with cutler and told him that he was never actively shopping him, to his face, that this whole thing would blow over. it wouldn't be hard, why isn't it happening? :confused:

[LRtagger]

7 pages on a story that is complete BS.

If Jay had wanted out of Denver weeks ago, why was it not "leaked" then? It is conveniently being leaked now IMO in an attempt to take blame off of the FO....either that or it is King just stirring the pot even more..."leak" a story like this and watch the website traffic skyrocket.

[turftoad]

i wish the meeting between cutler and the FO would just freaking happen. debunk all the rumors and clarify intentions. that's all it would take to move past this, but instead McD, pat, and xanders have all decided to ignore the situation from here on out.

i feel like if McD sat down with cutler and told him that he was never actively shopping him, to his face, that this whole thing would blow over. it wouldn't be hard, why isn't it happening? :confused:

Because he probably was actively shopping him.

[shank]

Because he probably was actively shopping him.

ding ding ding?

i hope not.

[Kapaibro]

Maybe not so far fetched....but the media has been known to start sandstorms over nothing just for the sake of ratings.

Hang on, you mean the media doesn't always report the truth???



Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[shank]

Hang on, you mean the media doesn't always report the truth???



Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

i blame MO

[omac]

i wish the meeting between cutler and the FO would just freaking happen. debunk all the rumors and clarify intentions. that's all it would take to move past this, but instead McD, pat, and xanders have all decided to ignore the situation from here on out.

i feel like if McD sat down with cutler and told him that he was never actively shopping him, to his face, that this whole thing would blow over. it wouldn't be hard, why isn't it happening? :confused:

Yeah, analysts on the NFL network (from the link posted, not sure if on this thread) basically said, all McDaniels had to do, if the trade rumors were not true, was just talk to Cutler from the onset and assure him they weren't going to trade him. There was no reason it couldn't have been done very early on, if they really had no intention of dealing him. As we saw it play out, based on the interview, when Cutler wanted confirmation if the trade rumors were true, the Broncos cut off communication with his agent.

[shank]

Yeah, analysts on the NFL network (from the link posted, not sure if on this thread) basically said, all McDaniels had to do, if the trade rumors were not true, was just talk to Cutler from the onset and assure him they weren't going to trade him. There was no reason it couldn't have been done very early on, if they really had no intention of dealing him. As we saw it play out, based on the interview, when Cutler wanted confirmation if the trade rumors were true, the Broncos cut off communication with his agent.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f041dd

exactly. i really like what all of them said (except for schefter) in taht video about the situation. especially wilcox who said that jay cutler's body of work is far greater than cassel's body of work, and for that matter, bigger than josh McD's body of work as a head coach. He said that a new head coach has to win over his players, not the other way around, which i don't think McD understands at all, and this move (or power-play) is totally representative of that fact. another good question in the video, "if you did just receive a phone call, why not just hang up the phone?!" good freaking question.

[TXBRONC]

Yeah, analysts on the NFL network (from the link posted, not sure if on this thread) basically said, all McDaniels had to do, if the trade rumors were not true, was just talk to Cutler from the onset and assure him they weren't going to trade him. There was no reason it couldn't have been done very early on, if they really had no intention of dealing him. As we saw it play out, based on the interview, when Cutler wanted confirmation if the trade rumors were true, the Broncos cut off communication with his agent.

Yeah that was Micheal Lombardi the former GM who said that's what McDaniels should do.

[JKcatch724]

Mike and Mike just brought up the idea of Cutler for McNabb. I dunno. I'm firmly planted on the side of keeping Cutler here by all means necessary, but if we absolutely HAD to get rid of him, McNabb would be the best we could get. What do you guys think?

[Buff]

i wish the meeting between cutler and the FO would just freaking happen. debunk all the rumors and clarify intentions. that's all it would take to move past this, but instead McD, pat, and xanders have all decided to ignore the situation from here on out.

i feel like if McD sat down with cutler and told him that he was never actively shopping him, to his face, that this whole thing would blow over. it wouldn't be hard, why isn't it happening? :confused:

Because cutler would rather pout and grandstand in the media...

[CoachChaz]

Mike and Mike just brought up the idea of Cutler for McNabb. I dunno. I'm firmly planted on the side of keeping Cutler here by all means necessary, but if we absolutely HAD to get rid of him, McNabb would be the best we could get. What do you guys think?

If it HAD to happen, I'd deal with it better if we had a kid in place to groom. On the other hand, McNabb might be the ONE QB in the NFL that cries more than Cutler and Rivers.

[tubby]

Because cutler would rather pout and grandstand in the media...

I've never loved you more Buff.

[dogfish]

But a franchise QB doesnt have to have top end physical tools. Almost everything is a system anymore and the days of the winning gunslinger are drifting away.


true-- but the best of all worlds is when you have a QB with elite tools running a proven system. . . . indy isn't consistently one of the best offenses in the league for nothing. . . if mcdaniels is the QB guru that he's been made out to be, then the best thing for everyone is that he and jay patch things up, jay stays here and mcdaniels helps iron out his flaws and make the most of that pordigious talent. . .

it's a win for everyone. . . for jay, because he's not likely to find another team with more offensive weapons and a better O-line already in place. . . for mcdaniels, because he's not going to find a QB with a better skillset. . . for the organization, because they get to move forward with their record-setting, pro bowl QB that isn't even in his prime yet, instead of starting over with an aging journeyman or rookie unknown. . . all these stubborn, egotistical knuckleheads need to put aside their pride and their agendas, and get on the same page and realize that they're better off working together towards a common goal than going through an ugly, public divorce that doesn't make anyone any better off. . .


as a side note, i'm going to be interested to see how cassell does this year when he doesn't have that tough new england defense to lean on and has to make plays to win games instead of just playing to not lose them-- that's a whole different ballgame, and we'll see if he's really a guy you cn build a franchise around. . . .

[TXBRONC]

Mike and Mike just brought up the idea of Cutler for McNabb. I dunno. I'm firmly planted on the side of keeping Cutler here by all means necessary, but if we absolutely HAD to get rid of him, McNabb would be the best we could get. What do you guys think?

McDaniels would still be in the same boat that he's in with Cutler in terms of learning a new offense.

[CoachChaz]

true-- but the best of all worlds is when you have a QB with elite tools running a proven system. . . . indy isn't consistently one of the best offenses in the league for nothing. . . if mcdaniels is the QB guru that he's been made out to be, then the best thing for everyone is that he and jay patch things up, jay stays here and mcdaniels helps iron out his flaws and make the most of that pordigious talent. . .

it's a win for everyone. . . for jay, because he's not likely to find another team with more offensive weapons and a better O-line already in place. . . for mcdaniels, because he's not going to find a QB with a better skillset. . . for the organization, because they get to move forward with their record-setting, pro bowl QB that isn't even in his prime yet, instead of starting over with an aging journeyman or rookie unknown. . . all these stubborn, egotistical knuckleheads need to put aside their pride and their agendas, and get on the same page and realize that they're better off working together towards a common goal than going through an ugly, public divorce that doesn't make anyone any better off. . .


as a side note, i'm going to be interested to see how cassell does this year when he doesn't have that tough new england defense to lean on and has to make plays to win games instead of just playing to not lose them-- that's a whole different ballgame, and we'll see if he's really a guy you cn build a franchise around. . . .

yes and no. A player with elite tools sometimes has the propensity to overvalue his tools. Do you think Shanny was happy when Jay forced a 15 yard rocket into triple coverage as opposed to hitting the guy sitting by himslef 10 yards down field?

[dogfish]

yes and no. A player with elite tools sometimes has the propensity to overvalue his tools. Do you think Shanny was happy when Jay forced a 15 yard rocket into triple coverage as opposed to hitting the guy sitting by himslef 10 yards down field?

of course not, but if mcdaniels is the QB guru he's been portrayed as, shouldn't he be able to teach jay better habits? i realize that not every player will learn, but jay's not stupid-- give him a defense that doesn't put the pressure right back on him by giving up a TD every time they take the field, and i'm pretty confident that he can learn to not force things as much. . . besides, he's already shown that he can produce at a very high level, he's young and has a world of talent, he has solid chemistry with all of our weapons and his teammates seem to genuinely like him-- and we have him under contract at fairly reasonable numbers for several more years. . .

if he proves to be completely intractable then i suppose maybe you have to move him at some point, but i sure as hell wouldn't make that anything but my last option. . . given the value of productive QBs, i just don't see us having a very good chance of replacing him easily. . . obviously none of us know for sure, but i don't see a matt ryan type of QB in this year's draft, and the FA options are pretty much garbage. . . it'll make me sick if we end of losing jay because of a stupid ego conflict, because we could easily go another five years or longer without finding a comparable quarterback. . . look at some of the teams like detroit, baltimore, buffalo, miami, oakland, chicago, san fran and tampa bay. . . look how long it's taken KC to replace trent, and that's assuming that cassell is as good as advertised. . .

given that our defense is a pile of shit, our top offensive weapon is a headcase, and our head coach is entirely unproven and seemingly pretty raw, i don't think it's an exaggeration to say that we could potentially flounder around in the bottom third of the league for an indefinite period if we move jay and don't get a quality QB in return. . .

i understand what you're saying, and i don't necessarily think that you're wrong, but IMO it's about a million times smarter to work with him and see if he can limit those mistakes, because if he can you have a truly elite QB for the next decade or so, and even if he can't you've got a guy that can give you 4,000+ yards and 25 TDs on a regular basis. . . he's only played three years, two and a half as a starter-- QBs take time to develop, i'd say it's waaaaay too early to say that he can't improve any more. . . i like the odds of him continuing to improve exponentially more than i like our odds of finding an equally productive QB if we move him, and that's why i'd make that my very last option. . .

[CoachChaz]

of course not, but if mcdaniels is the QB guru he's been portrayed as, shouldn't he be able to teach jay better habits? i realize that not every player will learn, but jay's not stupid-- give him a defense that doesn't put the pressure right back on him by giving up a TD every time they take the field, and i'm pretty confident that he can learn to not force things as much. . . besides, he's already shown that he can produce at a very high level, he's young and has a world of talent, he has solid chemistry with all of our weapons and his teammates seem to genuinely like him-- and we have him undre contract at fairly reasonable numbers for several more years. . .

if he proves to be completely intractable then i suppose maybe you have to move him at some point, but i sure as hell wouldn't make that anything but my last option. . . given the value of productive QBs, i just don't see us having a very good chance or replacing him easily. . . obviously none of us know for sure, but i don't see a matt ryan type of QB in this year's draft, and the FA options are pretty much garbage. . . it'll make me sick if we end of losing jay because of a stupid ego conflict, because we could easily go another five years or longer without finding a comparable quarterback. . . look at some of the teams like detroit, baltimore, buffalo, miami, oakland, chicago, san fran and tampa bay. . . look how long it's taken KC to replace trent, and that's assuming that cassell is as good as advertised. . .

given that our defense is a pile of shit, our top offensive weapon is a headcase, and our head coach is entrely unproven and seemingly pretty raw, i don't think it's an exaggeration to say that we could potentially flounder around in the bottom third of the league for an indefinite period if we move jay and don't get a quality QB in return. . .

i understand what you're saying, and i don't necessarily think that you're wrong, but IMO it's about a million times smarter to work with him and see if you can limit those mistakes, because if he can you have a truly elite QB for the next decade or so, and even if he can't you've got a guy that can give you 4,000+ yards and 25 TDs on a regular basis. . . he's only played three years, two and a half as a starter-- QBs take time to develop, i'd say it's waaaaay too early to say that he can't improve any more. . . i like the odds of him continuing to improve exponentially more than i like our odds of finding an equally productive QB if we move him, and that's why i'd make that my very last option. . .

I guess the point being, if we are going to suck for the immediate future, why not groom at least one positive to have when things get better. At this point Jay seems to be gone in 2 years either way.

[gnomeflinger]

Shanny got fired, Jay asked to be traded? Now Jay is saying he had no clue about the trade talks and is upset?

[turftoad]

Shanny got fired, Jay asked to be traded? Now Jay is saying he had no clue about the trade talks and is upset?

I think he was a little upset when Shanny was let go when he said that.

He's cooled off now as he's excepted the system and has been at Dove Valley learning the play book.

Now this. :tsk:

[dogfish]

I guess the point being, if we are going to suck for the immediate future, why not groom at least one positive to have when things get better. At this point Jay seems to be gone in 2 years either way.

i do see your POV, i guess i'm just not ready to accpet that things are totally irreparable at this point. . . i'd hate to see us rush out and trade him in the heat of the moment (not a good way to make potentially VERY expensive business decisions), and go into next year with jeff garcia and some rookie as our QBs. . . i don't want to spend #12 on mark sanchez, i want tyson jackson or rey maualuga or everette brown with that pick! these guys are all nominally adults, give it a week to cool down and then be professionals, patch things up and move on. . . they don't have to be best friends to work well together. . .

give it a year and see what happens before we sell off a highly productive player at the hardest position to find and replace him with a complete unknown. . . if we go out and win the division, at the end of the year everybody's laughing about this, mcdaniels gets kudos and jay gets a fat new deal. . . if it doesn't work and jay's still demanding a trade, we can always move him next year-- he'll still have plenty of value. . . but ATM i think that old cliche about the baby and the bathwater is really appropriate. . . JMO. . . .

[TXBRONC]

of course not, but if mcdaniels is the QB guru he's been portrayed as, shouldn't he be able to teach jay better habits? i realize that not every player will learn, but jay's not stupid-- give him a defense that doesn't put the pressure right back on him by giving up a TD every time they take the field, and i'm pretty confident that he can learn to not force things as much. . . besides, he's already shown that he can produce at a very high level, he's young and has a world of talent, he has solid chemistry with all of our weapons and his teammates seem to genuinely like him-- and we have him under contract at fairly reasonable numbers for several more years. . .

if he proves to be completely intractable then i suppose maybe you have to move him at some point, but i sure as hell wouldn't make that anything but my last option. . . given the value of productive QBs, i just don't see us having a very good chance of replacing him easily. . . obviously none of us know for sure, but i don't see a matt ryan type of QB in this year's draft, and the FA options are pretty much garbage. . . it'll make me sick if we end of losing jay because of a stupid ego conflict, because we could easily go another five years or longer without finding a comparable quarterback. . . look at some of the teams like detroit, baltimore, buffalo, miami, oakland, chicago, san fran and tampa bay. . . look how long it's taken KC to replace trent, and that's assuming that cassell is as good as advertised. . .

given that our defense is a pile of shit, our top offensive weapon is a headcase, and our head coach is entirely unproven and seemingly pretty raw, i don't think it's an exaggeration to say that we could potentially flounder around in the bottom third of the league for an indefinite period if we move jay and don't get a quality QB in return. . .

i understand what you're saying, and i don't necessarily think that you're wrong, but IMO it's about a million times smarter to work with him and see if he can limit those mistakes, because if he can you have a truly elite QB for the next decade or so, and even if he can't you've got a guy that can give you 4,000+ yards and 25 TDs on a regular basis. . . he's only played three years, two and a half as a starter-- QBs take time to develop, i'd say it's waaaaay too early to say that he can't improve any more. . . i like the odds of him continuing to improve exponentially more than i like our odds of finding an equally productive QB if we move him, and that's why i'd make that my very last option. . .

I could not have said it better myself.

[hamrob]

Another thing to think about in all of this. With McDaniels system do you really need a QB with a great arm? What has made Brady great is that he is smart, has great vision, and incredibly accurate (all of these things have been problems for Cutler at times). I didn't watch Cassels enough to know if he is a QB more like Brady or Cutler, but I would guess Brady.

That being said, maybe McDaniels likes Cutler's ability, but knows he can run the same type of offense with another type of QB. If you can get a lot out of a trade, it might make sense and if your QB is forcing your hand it might make more sense.

Just a thought.That's all well and good...except that the trade scenarios with tampa and detroit had us...trading Cutler for Cassell straight up.

Funny how even Detroit and Tampa were willing to take Cassell and quickly dish him off for Cutler...but McDaniels would rather have his guy...then Cutler...who is clearly prefered by the rest of the league.

[BigDaddyBronco]

That's all well and good...except that the trade scenarios with tampa and detroit had us...trading Cutler for Cassell straight up.

Funny how even Detroit and Tampa were willing to take Cassell and quickly dish him off for Cutler...but McDaniels would rather have his guy...then Cutler...who is clearly prefered by the rest of the league.
Maybe that is why it didn't happen. Not enough value for Cutler.

We will never know...

[MOtorboat]

That's all well and good...except that the trade scenarios with tampa and detroit had us...trading Cutler for Cassell straight up.

Funny how even Detroit and Tampa were willing to take Cassell and quickly dish him off for Cutler...but McDaniels would rather have his guy...then Cutler...who is clearly prefered by the rest of the league.

How can we know that? The trades were clearly declined, or frankly, made up by Belichick, which is becoming more and more of a possibility.

Making it even more obvious is the story that Belichick turned down a first-round pick, in favor of a second-round pick. If that were the case, he's starting to lose it. I don't think Belichick is starting to lose it.