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View Full Version : Can't hate Tebow



broncofan1987
01-14-2012, 10:45 PM
No matter who plays QB, when your receivers drop 7 passes, get sacked 5 times and the offensive line can't make a block, you can not win! Not to mention our defense can't get pressure on Tom or much less make a tackle without getting hurt. This season turned out a ton better then we ALL imagined. GB2 and we are only going to get better this offseason.

Day1BroncoFan
01-14-2012, 10:47 PM
This is a team loss. Complete fail.

GiantTebow
01-14-2012, 10:47 PM
Any QB wont be that good with the Offense. Heck Aaron Rodgers would be losing this game as well. But the Broncos fan should enjoy the season as it was exciting and a playoff victory was pretty cool. Here's to next year!

Northman
01-14-2012, 10:48 PM
Any QB wont be that good with the Offense.

Apparently they were last week.

CrazyHorse
01-14-2012, 11:21 PM
We got owned at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

bcbronc
01-14-2012, 11:31 PM
Blame for this one starts at Tebow and goes equally to all 45 dressed players. Maybe not the long snapper and Prater, and a few others worked hard right to the final whistle, but I wouldn't say anyone showed up today and had a great game.

Not going to win without a few great games from some individuals.

MOtorboat
01-14-2012, 11:32 PM
Sure I can. Watch me.

He's a winner. He's a leader. But at some point, he's going to have to learn to throw at an NFL level. He cannot do it yet, if ever.

Look on the other side of the ball tonight. That's what it has to look like. No more excuses. Missing wide receivers by yards at a time will no longer be acceptable.

Nice season. It was fun. He gets another year. But the kiddie shit is over. Learn to throw.

I'll try to be nice from here on out...

gatorpower
01-14-2012, 11:38 PM
If you get owned on both sides of the ball, it's not the QBs problem.

Guys were coming free forcing the QB to scramble out of the pocket and buy time. Could Tebow have made 10-11 better passes? Sure.

Would those 10-11 passes won the game?

Uh. No.

The Patriots could have scored 60 if they wanted. Our offense is simply not suited for a shoot-out, plan-and-simple.

MOtorboat
01-14-2012, 11:39 PM
If you get owned on both sides of the ball, it's not the QBs problem.

Guys were coming free forcing the QB to scramble out of the pocket and buy time. Could Tebow have made 10-11 better passes? Sure.

Would those 10-11 passes won the game?

Uh. No.

The Patriots could have scored 60 if they wanted. Our offense is simply not suited for a shoot-out, plan-and-simple.

Welcome to the NFL.

broncobryce
01-14-2012, 11:40 PM
Can't hate. But they can, and they WILL.

vettesplus
01-14-2012, 11:41 PM
i think tt will learn from this loss and will use it as a motivation factor to come back even better next year, great job broncos, but can we all let the tt mania rest for a bit.....

Dapper Dan
01-14-2012, 11:42 PM
We have to add depth to the secondary. After Dawkins and the a rookie safety goes down, we're left with a rookie and practice squad guys. Welcome to the NFL. We can't win like that.

Ziggy
01-14-2012, 11:55 PM
This one isn't on Tebow, but great QB's can overcome a bad day by the offensive line. I'm excited to see what he looks like next season after months of tutoring from Elway. He earned himself another season at QB. Next season he has to prove that he can be a passer week in and week out.

wayninja
01-14-2012, 11:57 PM
Where was Tebow's god on this one?

Dapper Dan
01-14-2012, 11:57 PM
I'm not giving up on Tebow until he gives up on the Broncos.

Dapper Dan
01-14-2012, 11:59 PM
Where was Tebow's god on this one?

It's spelled God. It's the same one a lot of us share. It was only brought up that God was the reason the Broncos were winning because people wanted to have some kind of reason for any success Tebow might have.

Mike
01-14-2012, 11:59 PM
Still reigning.

Zweems56
01-15-2012, 12:01 AM
Sure I can. Watch me.

He's a winner. He's a leader. But at some point, he's going to have to learn to throw at an NFL level. He cannot do it yet, if ever.

Look on the other side of the ball tonight. That's what it has to look like. No more excuses. Missing wide receivers by yards at a time will no longer be acceptable.

Nice season. It was fun. He gets another year. But the kiddie shit is over. Learn to throw.

I'll try to be nice from here on out...

That's fine, but the blame needs to be equally spread, IMHO. The defense was horrific (every single one of them), and the offensive line was putrid. Receivers dropped balls. We succeeded the most running the ball, but even that was pathetic.

D1g1tal j1m
01-15-2012, 12:08 AM
Tough loss, but we were outclassed on the field by the Pats. Their offense has been doing that to every team they play, it's pick your poison led by a HoF QB. Still, no pressure on the QB will spell loss every time.

We need to draft a corner to replace the horrible play of Goodman. Burton was horrible at Safety and needs to be cut. This was a team loss all around. Tebow had no time to throw and had pressure in his face all day long. The Pats are a bad matchup for us and unfortunately we had to play them twice in a month.

wayninja
01-15-2012, 12:08 AM
It's spelled God. It's the same one a lot of us share. It was only brought up that God was the reason the Broncos were winning because people wanted to have some kind of reason for any success Tebow might have.

Improper capitalization isn't actually mispelling, just to be technical.

Since we don't actually know if god is a proper noun, both are acceptable.

At least Tebow made some a difference in some kids life tonight. That's way more important than football.

MOtorboat
01-15-2012, 12:10 AM
That's fine, but the blame needs to be equally spread, IMHO. The defense was horrific (every single one of them), and the offensive line was putrid. Receivers dropped balls. We succeeded the most running the ball, but even that was pathetic.

For this game, yes. But that's not what I'm really talking about.

Jsteve01
01-15-2012, 12:24 AM
Wont hurt our young line to have a full offseason with magazu. That Guy is a coach

KCL
01-15-2012, 12:28 AM
The Pats are a great team..doubt any team in the west could have done any
better.

And who knew Brady could punt the ball...:lol:

Joel
01-15-2012, 02:13 AM
We have to add depth to the secondary. After Dawkins and the a rookie safety goes down, we're left with a rookie and practice squad guys. Welcome to the NFL. We can't win like that.
Our D went to Hell once we lost Dawk; do we think it any coincidence that snapped the 6 game win streak and started a 3 game slide? I think he actually made more plays in the running game and blitzing than in pass coverage, but even there Carter is a BIG step down from him. I suspect a lot of the reason Doom and Miller haven't been as effective without him is that teams aren't forced to add inside protection, and that allows RBs and TEs and tackles to focus entirely on Doom and Miller (be nice if Mays could get a few sacks blitzing up the middle, just to draw some attention.)

Unfortunately, Dawkins is almost certainly done (even if healthy, he's already the oldest starting safety EVER; next year he'll be pushing 40 HARD.) We must add secondary STARTERS; Harris may be ready to replace Goodman soon (or not,) but Champ IS slowing, and that problem is a solution to our missing star safety--IF we get a young shutdown corner to take his spot. A great CB and good G or two would make us WORLDS better.

broncobryce
01-15-2012, 02:17 AM
Our D went to Hell once we lost Dawk; do we think it any coincidence that snapped the 6 game win streak and started a 3 game slide? I think he actually made more plays in the running game and blitzing than in pass coverage, but even there Carter is a BIG step down from him. I suspect a lot of the reason Doom and Miller haven't been as effective without him is that teams aren't forced to add inside protection, and that allows RBs and TEs and tackles to focus entirely on Doom and Miller (be nice if Mays could get a few sacks blitzing up the middle, just to draw some attention.)

Unfortunately, Dawkins is almost certainly done (even if healthy, he's already the oldest starting safety EVER; next year he'll be pushing 40 HARD.) We must add secondary STARTERS; Harris may be ready to replace Goodman soon (or not,) but Champ IS slowing, and that problem is a solution to our missing star safety--IF we get a young shutdown corner to take his spot. A great CB and good G or two would make us WORLDS better.

Dawkins is still an outstanding tackler but his biggest asset outside of leadership is telling the young guys what to expect and how to play certain situations. He will be missed greatly if we don't get a veteran safety to step in.

Davii
01-15-2012, 02:24 AM
Where was Tebow's god on this one?

Really?

wayninja
01-15-2012, 02:25 AM
Really?

No, not really. Folks are pretty uptight.

I Eat Staples
01-15-2012, 02:45 AM
There are a lot of issues with this team, but that doesn't mean Tebow isn't one of them. I'm hoping he develops into a better passer, but he contributed to the loss just like the other factors mentioned here and elsewhere.

What I don't understand about these threads is that no one has blamed the entire thing on Tebow. This thread would be the equivalent of making a thread saying "our secondary sucks, but even if they didn't we were still going to lose."

aberdien
01-15-2012, 03:02 AM
He needs to throw better, but we're just an overachieving team. And we played the mofuggin' Patriots. I don't know if any of the other teams could've done much better.

It was a good season, nothing to be ashamed about.

CoachChaz
01-15-2012, 03:10 AM
Well...the CB I wanted this past off-season was ignored and added to a team last minute. All he did was go on to become a Pro Bowl starter and helped contain one of the best passers in the league today. Now we'll never have a shot at him.

I Eat Staples
01-15-2012, 03:15 AM
It's spelled God. It's the same one a lot of us share. It was only brought up that God was the reason the Broncos were winning because people wanted to have some kind of reason for any success Tebow might have.

The word "god" doesn't need to be capitalized. There are several different gods that people believe in or have believed in, such as Yahweh, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Zeus, etc...the name of a specific god should be capitalized, not the words god or deity or any other word for such a being.

Joel
01-15-2012, 03:38 AM
There are a lot of issues with this team, but that doesn't mean Tebow isn't one of them. I'm hoping he develops into a better passer, but he contributed to the loss just like the other factors mentioned here and elsewhere.

What I don't understand about these threads is that no one has blamed the entire thing on Tebow. This thread would be the equivalent of making a thread saying "our secondary sucks, but even if they didn't we were still going to lose."
No, but a disproportionate number of people are choosing to make the focus of their criticism, "I TOLD you Tebow sucks!" I want to draft a guard because Beadles and Walton would have to BOTH get a lot better for that to be a bad idea--and because they've both had more than twice as many starts as Tebow has. Same with the secondary; at this point in his career Goodman's only going to get worse, not better, and Bruton's in his third year, so even if Carter or Moore turns into a stood safety next year we'll still have two big holes there.

I'm not saying we should draft a guard OR center solely because ONE second year player with 16 starts remains inconsistent, or declaring he'll NEVER be even adequate at his position and we're better off trading him for half a candy bar and a handful of pogs (because that worked out so well with Cutler,) or implying this would be a Super Bowl team with Aaron Rodgers under center.

I still think a lot of this comes down to wishful thinking as much as the QBs higher profile. Say inconvenient reality didn't interfere and you chould CHOOSE your teams condition. Would you prefer that:

1) You have a roster full of young talent poised to become a dynasty, only lacking the all important franchise QB to replace the bum you've got and put you over the top, or

2) You have 4, MAYBE 5, elite players, as many adequate ones, and 13 green and/or untalented starters who can't be upgraded to title contention in less than a couple years, and you pick 24th in the next draft?

Obviously, if you can choose, the scenario where you need only replace your loser QB is far easier and thus more appealing. But you CAN'T choose, so which seems more LIKELY...?

He needs to throw better, but we're just an overachieving team. And we played the mofuggin' Patriots. I don't know if any of the other teams could've done much better.

It was a good season, nothing to be ashamed about.
If the Texans can get past Baltimore, they should annihilate the Pats, because they have a great secondary AND pass rush to complement a brutal running game with a solid backup for Arian Foster (Ben Tate>Lance Ball, by a LOT) plus a horde of great receivers. I guess that would make rookie third string QB T.J. Yates MUCH better than Tebow. :tongue:

RebelRocker
01-15-2012, 08:19 AM
No matter who plays QB, when your receivers drop 7 passes, get sacked 5 times and the offensive line can't make a block, you can not win! Not to mention our defense can't get pressure on Tom or much less make a tackle without getting hurt. This season turned out a ton better then we ALL imagined. GB2 and we are only going to get better this offseason.

Did you watch the game? Tebow took most of those sacks because he can't go through his progressions and spent forever scrambling around.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-15-2012, 08:52 AM
Did you watch the game? Tebow took most of those sacks because he can't go through his progressions and spent forever scrambling around.

There really weren't a lot of progressions to go through. The Pats were getting instant pressure and their blitz schemes were working very well. Combine that with the fact that the majority of our routes are long developing routes on the outside and except for DT, we didn't have a WR who could separate from the coverage and you get a lot of coverage sacks and scrambling around trying to make things happen. Once again, we don't seem to throw a lot of short passes. Was some of the underneath check down stuff there? Yes. Did Tebow miss it? Yes. Do QB's miss wide open WRs all the time? Yes. In our offense, that RB/TE checkdown is typically the 3rd or 4th read. With 2 secs or less to get rid of the ball, many times you don't get to your 3rd read or even your second.

Tebow bears the brunt (and rightfully so because he gets the accolades when we win) of the responsibility for this offense. Believe it or not with the scheme we run, Tebow actually has just as much responsibility as a guy like Manning or Brady to make the right checks at the LOS. He's the one who "reads" the defense - both pre-snap and post-snap to decide if he's going to hand off or keep or even pitch on those triple option type of plays. He made some bad reads in the running game (NE did a very good job vs the option so no matter what Tebow did, they had just about everyone accounted for) and NE's D-line played on our side of the ball for most of the game.

There's another facet that nobody is really talking about. It has been documented that Kuper was helping Walton with pre-snap protection calls a lot this season. When Kuper went down, that left it entirely on Walton to make those pre-snap calls. NE's defense, instead of playing us like most teams do and try to contain Tebow, just overload blitzed us most of the time and were beating our O-line. Minkovich was beating Franklin like a drum all night long. If it was a pass play and the first read wasn't there, Tebow had no choice but to scramble.

Let's just be honest. Yardage numbers aside, the Pats defense is way more talented than ours with the exception of outside pass rushers, but the youth of our O-line made even them look great. Tebow didn't have a good game at all, but I challenge anyone to pick out a player on our roster who really did last night. O-line missed blocks/got beat, RBs missed holes, WRs didn't catch catchable balls and didn't get much separation, Colquitt had his worst day punting as a Bronco, the defense missed tackles, the secondary/LBs got crossed up and confused too often and didn't cover well, and the coaches didn't do a very good job with adjustments.

It's one thing to say Tebow had a crappy game, because he did, but the Pats knew exactly what to do to counter our scheme and we didn't adjust. Just like in Buffalo, we didn't shorten up the routes or try to go to a timing/rhythm passing scheme. We ran the option and threw intermediate/deep passes (low percentage plays) the majority of the game.

And I don't care what anyone says, I can guarantee you McDaniels had an effect. No, he wasn't calling plays, but he does know the majority of our teams' strengths and weaknesses and you know he was giving their coordinators tips and keys from our offense so they could defend it. There's just no way the Pats defense knew every play before the snap like they did last night without help. Something as simple as saying, "from this formation, DT will either run this route or this route because that's the way it's written in the playbook" or "I know Beadles isn't good blocking guys to his left so always attack his left shoulder" is enough to give significant competitive advantage. Normally when a coach is fired, the team scraps his scheme for another. We didn't do that. We tweaked the scheme that he and McCoy were using, but we used a lot of the same formations and play calls. He knew exactly what we were doing. It wasn't hard for him to tell the DC, "hey watch out for this when you see them line up like that - it's either X or Y play".

bcbronc
01-15-2012, 03:18 PM
In our offense, that RB/TE checkdown is typically the 3rd or 4th read. With 2 secs or less to get rid of the ball, many times you don't get to your 3rd read or even your second.

Good post HP56, and I agree with everything except this part. Hot reads are always the first read...if there's a blitz coming, get the ball out quickly to your hot read. Don't wait to see if the OL picks up the blitz, don't wait to see if someone clears deep, see the blitz go to your hot read. It's something Tebow needs to work on (not just talking about yesterday's game either).

But let's be honest about something, even if our offense was firing on all cylinders yesterday, it wouldn't have mattered. Our defense had no answers for anything NE was doing, and our offense simply isn't in the same stratosphere as the Pats. We basically needed to score every drive, and 7 most, to hang in, and that's not realistic expectations for our young offense.

weazel
01-15-2012, 03:52 PM
No matter who plays QB, when your receivers drop 7 passes, get sacked 5 times and the offensive line can't make a block, you can not win! Not to mention our defense can't get pressure on Tom or much less make a tackle without getting hurt. This season turned out a ton better then we ALL imagined. GB2 and we are only going to get better this offseason.

the O-Line did well.. rewatch the game. tim had open receivers all over the field and he didnt see them. watch the game again and count the time he had in the pcoket, I had 10 people over watching the game and they were all laughing at how long timmy took to do anything behind center. We would count down the time he had and he had 8 to 10 seconds on a bunch of them and still threw the ball away or took a sack.

I get that people like tebow but **** off already. Quit ignoring the obvious, it makes you look foolish

Locnar
01-15-2012, 04:26 PM
I blame our defense more than Tebow. I agree he needs to be more accurate, but there were a lot of dropped balls, and the wind played such a huge factor against the passing game. To think that he should come out and play like one of the best QB's in the history of the game is just absurd.

If we had a defense that can stop a top tier passing team Tebow could be enough to win us big games against teams like that. But you can't expect him to match what a hall of famer can do against our pathetic D. We were what, the 20th ranked D all year? Which only tells us one thing. We were dominate against teams that didn't have a good passing attack, but so putrid against good passing teams that it brought our average down all the way to 20th.

I still think Tim deserves to start next year. And hopefully with a good off-season he will build a better rapport with his receivers. Learn to make those quick 8 yard slants and out patterns to contend against deep zone coverage. But if we can't significantly improve that defense, we will need a hall of fame QB which still wont be enough to keep up with the points be thrown down our throats..

weazel
01-15-2012, 04:29 PM
I blame our defense more than Tebow. I agree he needs to be more accurate, but there were a lot of dropped balls, and the wind played such a huge factor against the passing game. To think that he should come out and play like one of the best QB's in the history of the game is just absurd.

If we had a defense that can stop a top tier passing team Tebow could be enough to win us big games against teams like that. But you can't expect him to match what a hall of famer can do against our pathetic D. We were what, the 20th ranked D all year? Which only tells us one thing. We were dominate against teams that didn't have a good passing attack, but so putrid against good passing teams that it brought our average down all the way to 20th.

I still think Tim deserves to start next year. And hopefully with a good off-season he will build a better rapport with his receivers. Learn to make those quick 8 yard slants and out patterns to contend against deep zone coverage. But if we can't significantly improve that defense, we will need a hall of fame QB which still wont be enough to keep up with the points be thrown down our throats..

you're blaming the defense for not stopping one of the best offenses in the league? You do know they were on the field the entire game, right? Tebows offense was going 3 and out and putting the D back out there to fend for themselves.

give me a break. excuses, excuses, excuses... Im so sick of tebow apologists.

bcbronc
01-15-2012, 04:34 PM
you're blaming the defense for not stopping one of the best offenses in the league? You do know they were on the field the entire game, right? Tebows offense was going 3 and out and putting the D back out there to fend for themselves.

give me a break. excuses, excuses, excuses... Im so sick of tebow apologists.

to be fair, the defense didn't do their job any better than Tebow. In fact, I'd say the defense was worse in this game, playing Brady or no.

weazel
01-15-2012, 04:35 PM
to be fair, the defense didn't do their job any better than Tebow. In fact, I'd say the defense was worse in this game, playing Brady or no.

I agree, nobody played well but with these useless tebow nut huggers, tebow never gets any of the blame.

If Tebow mugged them out on the street, they would blame it on OJ

jlarsiii
01-15-2012, 04:39 PM
I won't hate on Tebow the person because he is a great guy. I reserve the right to hate on Tebow the football player because quite frankly the guy still sucks in most aspects of playing QB.

It bothers me how much people try to ramrod Tebow the person, and the player, as one unit. It is entirely reasonable to really like Tebow the person and what he does and what he stands for, but not reasonable to use that as the reason why people must inherently like Tebow the QB. It is just plain wrong.

Tebow has earned the right to start next season, but if improvements aren't made then he will not earn the right to finish it.

He should shoulder his fair share of blame for the loss yesterday because he deserves it. He is still woefully inadequate as a NFL QB...

My biggest fear as that the team will go "all in" on Tebow next season just to find out that Tebow is as bad of a QB as I think he is. If that happens then it will take even more years to fix and repair the team.

Of course, that could all be avoided if Tebow really makes some strides in the next 8 months. I still doubt that he pulls it off though...

Joel
01-16-2012, 06:07 AM
My biggest fear as that the team will go "all in" on Tebow next season just to find out that Tebow is as bad of a QB as I think he is. If that happens then it will take even more years to fix and repair the team.

Of course, that could all be avoided if Tebow really makes some strides in the next 8 months. I still doubt that he pulls it off though...
It can be avoided regardless if we fill our many other holes, which is what going "all in" on Tebow would really mean: Treating the QB position as settled except for signing a temporary dual threat vet as insurance and drafting one in the 6th or 7th to develop once Tebow is done, then getting him the offensive weapons and protection he needs to both develop and be effective if/when he does.

Want your QB to develop pocket presence? Give him a pocket, and don't wait; if you do, by the time it's in place he may be so shell shocked he jumps at his own shadow the rest of his career, and/or too beat up to walk.

Want your QB to know where/when WRs WILL be open for half a second? Give him WRs who get open, and don't wait; if you do, he may "learn" he must throw into double coverage, because that's "NFL open."

Say we do those things, Tebow implodes next season, we end up 6-10 or worse, and we have a shot at Landry Jones or whomever. Whoever "whomever" is will need those same things just as much to develop and win, so don't wait; if you do, we'll be having this same conversation about some other "bum" in two years. Even if we find a star QB we may ruin him, or trade him away because of the bums obscuring a good view of his talent.

MileHighCrew
01-16-2012, 08:43 AM
This is a young team with a lot of issues that gave us one hell of a season. I'm not sold on TT, I want to see if he improves with an off season, but I wouldn't care if they traded him either. I think the core of this team isn't Tebow, no matter what ESPN tells us. I love the way the kid looks at the world and his take on the impossible, but I really love how Tom Brady leads an offence and how Matt Stafford throws the ball.
Either way it was fun to watch and I am already excited to camp to start.

TXBRONC
01-16-2012, 08:52 AM
Where was Tebow's god on this one?

Since I know Tebow's God personally I know exactly where He was and is at all times right by his side just as He is by mine at all times.