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Lonestar
03-02-2009, 09:12 PM
they needed the cap space. They cleared up something like 18 mill under the cap. And with the second pick they dont have to pay the first round rate that would eat up that cap space. They have alot of defesive players contracts that are going to be FA next year. And i bet that they are going to save that space for them.

Or he could have just wanted to burn MaNificent :confused:

it was stated today by Peter King.. NE now has 4 picks in the top 60 all of which combined will not be the amount of guaranteed money that KC first round pick would have been by itself....

If NE can take a 7th round pick and replace Bledeso with it and then take a 6th rounder and replace Brady for the year with it.. who is to say they will not go crazy with those 4 top 60 picks.

TXBRONC
03-02-2009, 09:43 PM
am I the only one as an outside fan believe that McDaniels may have tried to blackball Cutler?

Two words: Hell no.

Simple Jaded
03-02-2009, 10:17 PM
Turning all the negative attention onto the player is standard operating procedure, they've been doing it since the story broke, of course the Broncos are blackballing Cutler.......

fcspikeit
03-02-2009, 11:50 PM
TD talks about the Cutler McDaniels situation (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f0977e)

Northman
03-03-2009, 12:03 AM
my thing is why is all the blame and hounding is on Cutler?


Because there is a core group of posters on here who blame Shanahan for firing Plummer even though it was only business. Furthermore, they just hate Shanahan and Cutler so no matter what positive things they may have done or will do they will always be hated. I can give you names, just PM me. I know them by heart. :lol:

Northman
03-03-2009, 12:04 AM
Turning all the negative attention onto the player is standard operating procedure, they've been doing it since the story broke, of course the Broncos are blackballing Cutler.......

Probably the same fans who tried to run John Elway out once too. I would bet money on it.

slim
03-03-2009, 12:07 AM
I wonder how many times the word "if" has been posted on this board in the last few days?

If...

Buff
03-03-2009, 12:13 AM
McDaniels shouldn't have commented on the situation. That's where he went wrong. Up to that point he had done nothing wrong--But his comment about not initiating the trade talks seemed disingenuous at best.

On the other hand, Jay shouldn't have thrown the franchise under the bus by telling the media he had denied their meeting request. It was blatant grandstanding and a clear attempt at one-upsmanship.

Both should make concessions, admit they were wrong, kiss, and makeup.

Den21vsBal19
03-03-2009, 04:20 AM
TD talks about the Cutler McDaniels situation (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f0977e)

Warren Sapp ~ No Quarterback toughens up

:rofl:

Thanks for the link :salute:

fcspikeit
03-03-2009, 05:26 AM
McDaniels shouldn't have commented on the situation. That's where he went wrong. Up to that point he had done nothing wrong--But his comment about not initiating the trade talks seemed disingenuous at best.

On the other hand, Jay shouldn't have thrown the franchise under the bus by telling the media he had denied their meeting request. It was blatant grandstanding and a clear attempt at one-upsmanship.

Both should make concessions, admit they were wrong, kiss, and makeup.

Cutlers agent says there is or never was any meeting scheduled between Cutler and the FO.. One would think he would know, LOL

I think Cutler was responding to a question on rather or not he wants to talk it over with them to clear the air. IMO, his biggest problem with talking it over with them was they were lying about wanting to trade him.. He said something about not wanting to talk to them if they were just going to lie to his face as they had done in the media. He said he knew for a fact they tried to trade him.

I heard his agent was supposed to be sitting down with the FO tonight? Has anyone heard anything about that?

omac
03-03-2009, 05:44 AM
TD talks about the Cutler McDaniels situation (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f0977e)

Here's TD's rant, as well as Sapp's rant about the topic. It's obvious to them that it is a very serious matter, and a major goof by McDaniels.

Rant by Terrell Davis:

"So basically, Jay Cutler is like, by default, the quarterback of the Denver Broncos."

"So as a quarterback of this stature and calibre, I've got a problem with that. I'm a probowl quarterback. I am the franchise. This organization has spent their last 8 years trying to find another John Elway, you know. They went through Jake Plummer, Brian Griese; now they found one, and all of a sudden, overnight, they want to deal him."

"In that meeting room, if I'm sitting up there and I'm Jay Cutler. I see Josh McDaniel. He's putting in the gameplan. I'm looking at him. He's giving us the team rah-rah speech. You don't think for a minute, Jay Cutler's gonna have those thoughts in his mind looking at the coach, like, yeah whatever."

(all the while, through TD's rant, Sapp is laughing and smiling)

Rant by Sapp:

"Here's the one problem I have. Jay Cutler, since he came out of the womb, he was groomed to play quarterback. He's never not been wanted. He was at Vanderbilt, playing one of the worst teams, and was a player of the year in SEC in Vanderbilt ... you understand what that is? Player of the year at the SEC at Vanderbilt! At no point in his life has anyone ever come to him and say you're not wanted. And he heard it through a backdoor, and that's the one thing you don't do in this league. Try to go backdoor on a player and allow it to become known, what you were gonna do to him ... oohhh ... I wouldn't want to be in Denver this year."

(by Sapp's tone and demeanor, he's can't believe McDaniels could do such a stupid thing)

It's obvious to both Terrell and Warren that Cutler has a right to be miffed; further, Sapp believes that it will negatively affect players perception of the current Denver management.

fcspikeit
03-03-2009, 06:10 AM
Here's TD's rant, as well as Sapp's rant about the topic. It's obvious to them that it is a very serious matter, and a major goof by McDaniels.

Rant by Terrell Davis:

"So basically, Jay Cutler is like, by default, the quarterback of the Denver Broncos."

"So as a quarterback of this stature and calibre, I've got a problem with that. I'm a probowl quarterback. I am the franchise. This organization has spent their last 8 years trying to find another John Elway, you know. They went through Jake Plummer, Brian Griese; now they found one, and all of a sudden, overnight, they want to deal him."

"In that meeting room, if I'm sitting up there and I'm Jay Cutler. I see Josh McDaniel. He's putting in the gameplan. I'm looking at him. He's giving us the team rah-rah speech. You don't think for a minute, Jay Cutler's gonna have those thoughts in his mind looking at the coach, like, yeah whatever."

(all the while, through TD's rant, Sapp is laughing and smiling)

Rant by Sapp:

"Here's the one problem I have. Jay Cutler, since he came out of the womb, he was groomed to play quarterback. He's never not been wanted. He was at Vanderbilt, playing one of the worst teams, and was a player of the year in SEC in Vanderbilt ... you understand what that is? Player of the year at the SEC at Vanderbilt! At no point in his life has anyone ever come to him and say you're not wanted. And he heard it through a backdoor, and that's the one thing you don't do in this league. Try to go backdoor on a player and allow it to become known, what you were gonna do to him ... oohhh ... I wouldn't want to be in Denver this year."

(by Sapp's tone and demeanor, he's can't believe McDaniels could do such a stupid thing)

It's obvious to both Terrell and Warren that Cutler has a right to be miffed; further, Sapp believes that it will negatively affect players perception of the current Denver management.

IMO it already has, I wonder if this had a part in Words decision to go to the Bucs? How could it not have? If Denver loses Cutler the Broncos will be in a bad state of affers next year..

Word had said in the past he wanted to play for the Broncos..

claymore
03-03-2009, 07:15 AM
Both morning and night radio shows here called McDaniels retarded for one trying to shop Cutler, and 2 letting him find out about it. They laughed and were all for the bucs trading for him for pics.

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 08:50 AM
Screw that. I guess I join the Dilfer camp on this. Call me crazy for listening to a guy that actually played the damn position as opposed to a RB and DT that got, let's face it, whatever they wanted.

If Jay is going to hold a grudge and make plans to bolt town in 2 years then get rid of him now. Everyone is convinced that this is going to rattle the locker room, but I think it can also send a message. A message that NO ONE is safe. At any point, this coach will replace someone if he feels they are not best for the team. No one has even bothered to condiser that maybe McD did not get a very cheery and positive vibe from his conversations with a QB that whined about the process of changes.

So if your QB is not right for your system and regime and you deal him, everyone else gets the idea that you arent playing around. Maybe having a little fear in the locker room is something we need in Denver. God knows it hasnt happened in the last 10 years.

My biggest issue with the Jay whining is that I really dont care if McD tried to trade him or not. If there are reasons why he feels Jay is not best for his system, then that is completely his call. Everyone else that thinks Cutler is the second coming of Christ will be all up in arms...until another QB comes in, conforms, and wins. I guess some people just need to pull their proverbial heads up from under Cutlers sheets long enough to realize that none of us know a damn thing about what the Denver brass is trying to accomplish until we see what unfolds on the field.

atwater27
03-03-2009, 09:04 AM
Coach, if it ain't broke, there is no need to fix it. McDumbass might have forgotten "It's the defense, stupid."

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 09:10 AM
Coach, if it ain't broke, there is no need to fix it. McDumbass might have forgotten "It's the defense, stupid."

I can understand that thought, but I guess it's along the lines of when you walk into a bar and you want to let everyone know who "the man" is, you typically pick the biggest, baddest mofo to whip on.

If McD makes it obvious that even the biggest superstar on the team is not hidden from trade, then maybe it wakes everyone up and makes them fight to keep a job a little harder. It can be spun into that positive if they play it right.

Just an alternative way of looking at how things can be spun from this.

atwater27
03-03-2009, 09:14 AM
I don't like that kind of coach, and can totally understand why Jay wouldn't either. McDaniels isn't about the team. He is about himself. Guy is so ego driven that it hurts him to win with"someone else's guys". Guy is gonna find out real soon that there is only 1 Belichick. And he ain't Belichick. In my opinion right now, I think Bowlen ****** up. I will know for sure after the draft.

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 09:20 AM
I don't like that kind of coach, and can totally understand why Jay wouldn't either. McDaniels isn't about the team. He is about himself. Guy is so ego driven that it hurts him to win with"someone else's guys". Guy is gonna find out real soon that there is only 1 Belichick. And he ain't Belichick. In my opinion right now, I think Bowlen ****** up. I will know for sure after the draft.

Take it one step further and wait until after a season to decide. Anyone can sign and draft players. I'll make my decision once I see what he makes them do on the field.

MOtorboat
03-03-2009, 09:30 AM
I don't like that kind of coach, and can totally understand why Jay wouldn't either. McDaniels isn't about the team. He is about himself. Guy is so ego driven that it hurts him to win with"someone else's guys". Guy is gonna find out real soon that there is only 1 Belichick. And he ain't Belichick. In my opinion right now, I think Bowlen ****** up. I will know for sure after the draft.

Then we can fire every single coach ever hired before the season starts. Everyone brings in their "own guys" and gets rid of some players that people like. That's part of the deal.

claymore
03-03-2009, 09:41 AM
Then we can fire every single coach ever hired before the season starts. Everyone brings in their "own guys" and gets rid of some players that people like. That's part of the deal.

Not the most important player on the squad. I dont know if that has ever happened.

I guess Atlanta traded Brett Favre, we all know how that ended up.

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 09:45 AM
Liek I said, if the rest of the team steps back and says, "Wow, if he'll trade Jay, he'll get rid of anyone. I better prove my worth." Then it works for me.

Mike
03-03-2009, 09:47 AM
Liek I said, if the rest of the team steps back and says, "Wow, if he'll trade Jay, he'll get rid of anyone. I better prove my worth." Then it works for me.

Probably. The next thing they say is "this guy is a backstabbing SOB...when's the next train leaving?"

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 09:52 AM
Probably. The next thing they say is "this guy is a backstabbing SOB...when's the next train leaving?"

Then let me ask. Do we want guys on this team that assume the worst and want to jump ship at the first sign of hinderance? Guys that are so scared they may lose a job they feel is handed to them that they want to be somewhere safer?

Mike
03-03-2009, 10:05 AM
Then let me ask. Do we want guys on this team that assume the worst and want to jump ship at the first sign of hinderance? Guys that are so scared they may lose a job they feel is handed to them that they want to be somewhere safer?

Not really. Players should be expected to fight for their job and if they aren't performing then they should know that the coach will move them. But they should have trust in their HC. Without that trust I think you lose the cohesiveness that builds the team together.

But that is not the case here. Cutler hasn't even had an opportunity on the field to perform for McDaniels. I will say this, though, if all this whole situation is is McDaniel's trying to send a message then he is a retard.

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 10:07 AM
Not really. Players should be expected to fight for their job and if they aren't performing then they should know that the coach will move them. But they should have trust in their HC. Without that trust I think you lose the cohesiveness that builds the team together.

But that is not the case here. Cutler hasn't even had an opportunity on the field to perform for McDaniels. I will say this, though, if all this whole situation is is McDaniel's trying to send a message then he is a retard.

Seriously? None of us can even begin to have a clue about what was discussed when him and Jay talked. If something happened that he was unhappy about AND/OR he looked into an opportunity to improve the team...I dont know that I'd call it retarded.

SirRyan135
03-03-2009, 10:15 AM
Come on guys This new coach is looking to be a short term coach. Why try to change what is no broke. Why would the Broncos want to pay Castle that kind of money he really is not that good. He played on a good team last year so that helped him out. Cutler has the tools to be great and I would hope the broncos would see that and get him signed up to a long term deal. Plus if you sign him up this trade issue will just go away that much faster.

Mike
03-03-2009, 10:22 AM
Seriously? None of us can even begin to have a clue about what was discussed when him and Jay talked. If something happened that he was unhappy about AND/OR he looked into an opportunity to improve the team...I dont know that I'd call it retarded.

I'm not saying that trying to better the team is retarded. I am not saying that if he didn't feel comfortable with Cutler and felt a move was the right thing for the Broncos is retarded. I am saying that if all this was was trying to send a message to the team that nobody is safe...then I'd call it a retarded idea. I'd say the fallout is evidence that it was a retarded idea. I don't think that is what McDaniels was trying to do though.

Either way, whatever did or did not happen is done. If Cutler continues to play the spoiled teen-age act, I don't see Denver has any choice but to move him. If the sides haven't met and fixed the situation by the end of the month I think Jay will be traded come draft day.

Northman
03-03-2009, 10:37 AM
Then let me ask. Do we want guys on this team that assume the worst and want to jump ship at the first sign of hinderance? Guys that are so scared they may lose a job they feel is handed to them that they want to be somewhere safer?

Well, your argueing to different points here though Coach. I can understand that players need to hold themselves accountable with their play and can be cut or traded on a whim. But, Cutler has more than showed he's capable of playing in this league so i would have to agree with Mike's outlook just because this "trade senario" isnt based off playing ability but personal preference. So i think in this particular incident its not really showing McD's good side. However, the cutting of some of the bad talent we had on defense is a good thing. This here just wasnt the case in my opinion.

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 10:51 AM
Well, your argueing to different points here though Coach. I can understand that players need to hold themselves accountable with their play and can be cut or traded on a whim. But, Cutler has more than showed he's capable of playing in this league so i would have to agree with Mike's outlook just because this "trade senario" isnt based off playing ability but personal preference. So i think in this particular incident its not really showing McD's good side. However, the cutting of some of the bad talent we had on defense is a good thing. This here just wasnt the case in my opinion.

I agree. I guess what I'm saying is we dont know what was discussed in the conversations between Jay and Josh. Maybe Josh left with the feeling that Jay was a gunslinger through and through and really has a bad feeling about his success in his offense. or maybe he just felt compelled to listen to an offer just to see if it improved the team. I dont know, but either way, the fact that he would listen to an offer for the Golden Child should still tell the team that he will do whatever it takes to make improvements and not simply burn the team to the ground intentionally, as some would choose to believe.

I guess I'm trying to look at it from a more optimistic approach rather than lynch the guy immediately.

Watchthemiddle
03-03-2009, 11:00 AM
Well, your argueing to different points here though Coach. I can understand that players need to hold themselves accountable with their play and can be cut or traded on a whim. But, Cutler has more than showed he's capable of playing in this league so i would have to agree with Mike's outlook just because this "trade senario" isnt based off playing ability but personal preference. So i think in this particular incident its not really showing McD's good side. However, the cutting of some of the bad talent we had on defense is a good thing. This here just wasnt the case in my opinion.

Cutler is not a McDaniels guy and I think that has something to do with it. NO matter what kind of stats he has put up over 3 years, the league knows about his maturity and attitude. If they didn't they know now. Maybe McDaniels just doesn't want to deal with it. I know I wouldn't. I definately wouldn't want to deal with it now after all of this has happened. Not so sure I can trust Jay to play at a 110% if he is not willing to buy into this new staff and system. All its going to take is a bad play, fumble, sack...whatever and Jay is going to go even deeper in the tank than he his now.

ITs too risky to me at this point to keep this guy around ( Jay ).

claymore
03-03-2009, 11:01 AM
Cutler is not a McDaniels guy and I think that has something to do with it. NO matter what kind of stats he has put up over 3 years, the league knows about his maturity and attitude. If they didn't they know now. Maybe McDaniels just doesn't want to deal with it. I know I wouldn't. I definately wouldn't want to deal with it now after all of this has happened. Not so sure I can trust Jay to play at a 110% if he is not willing to buy into this new staff and system. All its going to take is a bad play, fumble, sack...whatever and Jay is going to go even deeper in the tank than he his now.

ITs too risky to me at this point to keep this guy around ( Jay ).

Franchise QB's are harder to find than 1st year Head Coaches. Jay will be here after McDaniels leaves. If it comes to that.

Northman
03-03-2009, 11:08 AM
Cutler is not a McDaniels guy and I think that has something to do with it. NO matter what kind of stats he has put up over 3 years, the league knows about his maturity and attitude. If they didn't they know now. Maybe McDaniels just doesn't want to deal with it. I know I wouldn't. I definately wouldn't want to deal with it now after all of this has happened. Not so sure I can trust Jay to play at a 110% if he is not willing to buy into this new staff and system. All its going to take is a bad play, fumble, sack...whatever and Jay is going to go even deeper in the tank than he his now.

ITs too risky to me at this point to keep this guy around ( Jay ).

Well, at this point i can only agree with you that i really dont think Jay wants to be here. I think that much is certain. Obviously, i would love to see what he could do under McD but i think this has soured to the point of no return. I dont really believe though that McD cant utilize Jay's talents. If he can make it work with Brady and Cassell, he could do wonders with Jay. Shanny was way too laid back in his coaching of Jay for one reason or another. McD would probably have Jay scale it back some if Jay would give him the chance. However, when your Coach shows that he would entertain any offer (which he has a right to do) than thats not sending a positive message to your player. And i think thats what some people dislike about McD right now. Hopefully it works out, but if not trade him and get what you can for him.

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 11:08 AM
Franchise QB's are harder to find than 1st year Head Coaches. Jay will be here after McDaniels leaves. If it comes to that.

Let's be careful how we use this term. the skills are there, but is the proof?

Please dont give me passing yards and TD's because Plummer did the same.

haroldthebarrel
03-03-2009, 11:13 AM
When are we going to support the team and stop throwing insults and tantrums at the persons involved in the club we love?

Two wrongs doesnt make a right in ethical terms and it is absurd to discuss ad absurdum to whom was the most wrong. forgive and forget!

G_Money
03-03-2009, 11:25 AM
Let's be careful how we use this term. the skills are there, but is the proof?

Please dont give me passing yards and TD's because Plummer did the same.

We don't know if Cutler can win a Super Bowl with us.

I do believe that if 2008 Cutler had been on our 2005 team we don't lose that game to Pittsburgh.

I do believe that if 2008 Cutler was on the 2008 Steelers they still win a Super Bowl.

If you want to line up players and ask, "can he be a part of my next world championship team" I would say "yes" to Cutler, when I was emphatic about my "NO" to both Plummer and Griese very early on in their Broncos careers.

My yes to Cutler is not a "YES!!!" at this point but he has all the skills I need, and he isn't a bad leader on the field. His problems are showing up now in temperament and handling, but those can be managed. Kurt Warner and Dan Marino both take things extremely personally too. Both have had pretty good careers.

I don't know about McDaniels. Nobody knows. He's never been a head coach for even one game in his life. We have no idea if he's the next Shanahan or Belichick, or the next promising young talent who implodes when he gets the head job.

I'd prefer for them to work it out together. If they can't, my money's on Cutler to do better away from us (assuming no Lions gig) than McDaniels will do with us, since I don't think McD would be able to get a QB in here who can be effective enough fast enough for him to avoid the angry outrage of the fans who bet their life savings and hearts on Cutler being The One. So I hope it doesn't come to that.

But on the "do we know if he's a franchise anything?" question, I'd say Jay has proven waaaaaay more than McDaniels, which is why it's hard to take McD's side. McDaniels may wind up being the greatest coach of the next 20 years, but right now he looks dumb and vulnerable.

~G

CoachChaz
03-03-2009, 11:28 AM
We don't know if Cutler can win a Super Bowl with us.

I do believe that if 2008 Cutler had been on our 2005 team we don't lose that game to Pittsburgh.

I do believe that if 2008 Cutler was on the 2008 Steelers they still win a Super Bowl.

If you want to line up players and ask, "can he be a part of my next world championship team" I would say "yes" to Cutler, when I was emphatic about my "NO" to both Plummer and Griese very early on in their Broncos careers.

My yes to Cutler is not a "YES!!!" at this point but he has all the skills I need, and he isn't a bad leader on the field. His problems are showing up now in temperament and handling, but those can be managed. Kurt Warner and Dan Marino both take things extremely personally too. Both have had pretty good careers.

I don't know about McDaniels. Nobody knows. He's never been a head coach for even one game in his life. We have no idea if he's the next Shanahan or Belichick, or the next promising young talent who implodes when he gets the head job.

I'd prefer for them to work it out together. If they can't, my money's on Cutler to do better away from us (assuming no Lions gig) than McDaniels will do with us, since I don't think McD would be able to get a QB in here who can be effective enough fast enough for him to avoid the angry outrage of the fans who bet their life savings and hearts on Cutler being The One. So I hope it doesn't come to that.

But on the "do we know if he's a franchise anything?" question, I'd say Jay has proven waaaaaay more than McDaniels, which is why it's hard to take McD's side. McDaniels may wind up being the greatest coach of the next 20 years, but right now he looks dumb and vulnerable.

~G

So because Jay has 3 years of tenure as a QB and Josh has zero as a head coach...Jay is automatically excused?

warcrychief
12-13-2010, 02:32 PM
priceless threads that shouldnt be forgotten lmao

Dreadnought
12-13-2010, 02:33 PM
priceless threads that shouldnt be forgotten lmao

:confused:

Context and timing of your posts seem off somehow. Oh well.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-13-2010, 02:35 PM
:confused:

Context and timing of your posts seem off somehow. Oh well.

I was thinking the same thing - why should a Chief's fan bump an old thread which was started when Cutler was still with the Broncos :confused:

Dreadnought
12-13-2010, 02:37 PM
I was thinking the same thing - why should a Chief's fan bump an old thread which was started when Cutler was still with the Broncos :confused:

Maybe he is, uh, a little slow? If so we should be kind, Carol. He is doing his very bestest.