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View Full Version : Was McDaniel's the right choice?



Northman
03-01-2009, 11:03 AM
Before i get the influx of hateful high five's or sarcastic responses let me point out that
this is just an open minded post. Yes, i loved Shanahan but as ive stated numerous times
since his departure i am more than willing to give Josh McDaniels a chance to do his thing
in Denver. However, there have been some other moves that have me scratching my head
and wondering if Mr. Bowlen made the right call on our new Coach. I do feel we needed to
go into a younger direction with the coaching but was McDaniels the right guy?

Although im positive that Bowlen had his hand in the departure of the Goodman's just as
much as McDaniels that was one move i really didnt understand. The last couple of drafts
were VERY positive for this team and didnt seem like it was going to slow down. Now, maybe
this year will continue that trend we will just have to wait and see. And i know that when you
get a new coach there is this tendency to want to strip it all down and get your own guys
into the fold but what does that really say about your ability to work with those you arent
familiar with?

When the move was made to bring in a new coach i figured we would bringing in someone to
make some moves with player personnel while leaving the rest of it intact. This team isnt that
far from a chance at a title. Maybe 2 years max if you make the right aquisitions and draft picks.
But, it would almost seem that McD (and maybe Bowlen) are trying to start from scratch all
over again which would put this team from a Championship farther down the road. That doesnt
sound like progress to me especially what we were able to accomplish with what lack of
talent we had last year. Going 8-8 with the problems that we had was pretty damn good considering
and with just a select few of moves we could easily jump to a 10-6 or 11-5 team.

I understand the business side of things and i know coaches generally entertain offers of all
kinds but most coaches also dont bite the hand that feeds them. Dan Reeves once thought he
would be slick and try to trade Elway and that eventually bit Reeves in the ass and signaled
his doom in Denver. Now, i understand that Jay isnt John Elway but it cant be denied that the
kid possesses that kind of talent as long as he has the weapons at his disposal and the chance
to mature with time. But, most coaches would see this right off the bat. Especially after what
kind of season Jay had last year so i have to question McD's qualifications as a HC here. He is
not only screwing the pooch on losing a franchise QB but he is doing so on the risk of trying to
replace him with a QB who had one solid year with a team that was more competitive.

Yes, Cassell may end up being a great QB for KC. But he may also become the next Derek
Anderson. Teams now have game film on Matt and i highly doubt he will be as successful
next year. Again, maybe he will be fine but the truth of the matter is that is a HIGH risk to
make and banking one of the most important positions on the team like that is not the smartest
of moves. Now, again i know this is a business and life isnt always fair. But, there is also the
responsibility of being a professional about it even more so at the HC position. McDaniel's poor
judgement in his handling of communication with Jay has been very disappointing.

I know some people see this as blowing over and i really hope they are right. However, coming
in for the first time to a team you dont even really know and essentially telling the star QB
that he is expendable without being man enought to discuss it with him first is pretty tacky
and cowardly and totally unprofessional. And keep in mind, this not only affects Jay's mental
state going into next season but now what do other players on the team think? Our best
wide receiver loves Cutler so if Jay gets traded what does that do to the psyche of the rest of
the team? This is just a poor move on McDaniel's part to me. If your going to entertain the idea
of trading your franchise player (which is ok) then at least be up front with the guy about it.

We know Jay wasnt crazy about the firing of Shanahan so maybe Jay doesnt want to play
for Josh. But it sounds like McDaniel's is trying to be sneaky here and if i was a player on this
team i wouldnt be none to happy either. Be a man and be up front with the players otherwise you
take the risk of losing the entire team and the respect that you really need to have. I really hope
that this doesnt damage the relationship between the team and the HC. That would set this team
back even further at this point. A week or so ago i was toying with the idea of posting a new
topic proclaiming "its a good thing im not the GM/HC of this team". And i was going to list all
the UVA players that i would trade Jay and certain players for having Aaron Brooks as our
starting QB.

Yes, i love my UVA players but that was from a fan point of view and just trying to be silly. But
looking at what is starting to transpire here i am beginning to wonder if McDaniel's is treading
down a dangerous path much like a certain Steve Spurrier did when he was trying to get all his
Gators on his team. McD is supposed to be a good judge of talent but the way he has handled
this situation with Jay has me scratching my head if he was the right choice for us. Lets hope that
im wrong here and that he can mend the wound he has cut open here.

broncophan
03-01-2009, 11:16 AM
I don't have a problem with the moves the team has made so far.

I will give McD the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance this season and see where we are.

Let him build his team and see where we are.

This whole thing with Cutler is ugly though....and imo Cutler is not mature enough to handle it....even though it appeared that Cutler said the right things yesterday.

What the hell.....I say we trade Cutler to Detroit for their first round pick and sign Warner for 2 or 3 years.

With all the changes this team is going through.... this team needs an experienced qb for the next couple of years.....I just don't see an inexperienced kid helping the team with alot of new faces on the field and on the sidelines with the broncos.

JONtheBRONCO
03-01-2009, 11:17 AM
Thought so. Maybe he is. Who knows. But for now.

F*** Him.

Northman
03-01-2009, 11:22 AM
I don't have a problem with the moves the team has made so far.

I will give McD the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance this season and see where we are.

Let him build his team and see where we are.

This whole thing with Cutler is ugly though....and imo Cutler is not mature enough to handle it....even though it appeared that Cutler said the right things yesterday.

What the hell.....I say we trade Cutler to Detroit for their first round pick and sign Warner for 2 or 3 years.

With all the changes this team is going through.... this team needs an experienced qb for the next couple of years.....I just don't see an inexperienced kid helping the team with alot of new faces on the field and on the sidelines with the broncos.


The trade with Detroit may still happen if the fence cant be fixed between Josh and Jay. But this team is full of young players so whether or not Warner would be the answer there im not sure. And not knowing if the defense will be that much better than it was is also an unknown so im not sure Kurt would want to come into a franchise with this much uncertainity going on. And again, what about guys like Brandon? If Jay gets traded does Brandon just say screw it and move on as well? I think this has a possibility of rubbing more than just Cutler the wrong way. Ill be a fan of this team regardless but the last thing i really want to see is us going from a possible playoff contender to spending the next 5 years trying to rebuild player/coach relationships and spending those years in the cellar of this division. At this point it would be a step back and go totally against why Shanahan was fired in the first place for. McDaniel's was brought in to win, not start rebuilding all over again.

Flatinum
03-01-2009, 11:27 AM
I'll wait until December to judge McDaniels.

Hopefully they're not the same average to below average teams they've been under Shanahan for the last few seasons. Only time will tell.

I'll also wait a while to judge the moves he's made so far (which I don't mind by the way). I'm sure there will be a few more signings to factor in as well. Hopefully Canty and Ward.

As for Cutler - grow up, stop pouting, focus on football and don't throw so many redzone int's this year.

broncophan
03-01-2009, 11:30 AM
The trade with Detroit may still happen if the fence cant be fixed between Josh and Jay. But this team is full of young players so whether or not Warner would be the answer there im not sure. And not knowing if the defense will be that much better than it was is also an unknown so im not sure Kurt would want to come into a franchise with this much uncertainity going on. And again, what about guys like Brandon? If Jay gets traded does Brandon just say screw it and move on as well? I think this has a possibility of rubbing more than just Cutler the wrong way. Ill be a fan of this team regardless but the last thing i really want to see is us going from a possible playoff contender to spending the next 5 years trying to rebuild player/coach relationships and spending those years in the cellar of this division. At this point it would be a step back and go totally against why Shanahan was fired in the first place for. McDaniel's was brought in to win, not start rebuilding all over again.

I know buddy......I feel the same way.




I thought this team was rebuilding when we let Plummer go....:confused:
Already....with as many changes that this team has made.....we are in a major rebuilding process.......I would not be surprised if Champ is gone by draft day as well.

I don't want to continue this long playoff drought either......and if we can believe Bowlen......when Shanny was fired......he said this was Cutlers team.

Elway ran Reeves out of Denver.........I doubt Cutler has "earned" the right to run McD out of town.....so Cutler may be hitting the road.....you would think someone from the organization would come forward to support Cutler...................a teammate/water boy/coach/ cheerleader....anybody???

tomjonesrocks
03-01-2009, 11:35 AM
I don't think you're going to get many "yes" answers to this question right now...

DenBronx
03-01-2009, 11:38 AM
You should have added a poll North.

As for McDaniels, at first I was pretty upset over not getting a guy like Spag or Morris. Then after Pat introduced McDaniels I started think maybe this can turn around. Maybe KcKids play calling is going to be like it was in New England and hopefully he gets a stud DC. Well reports were that we were going to bring in Capers and Nolan. All of this seemed like a good blue print.

Then the Goodmans got fired after they just got promoted. That was a real head scratcher to me. I'm also not sure why he didn't try and hang onto Bates. You have to wonder if McKid was behind those decisions. Then him and Xanders work like crazy cutting alot of guys that dont fit the system or just didnt produce with their big contracts. That was great, I actually thought they did a good job there.

But we had what 37 mill in cap room? I realize he is trying to target alot of 2nd teir players but cmon can you get a few impact players that are at least under 30? Why pay 2 scrub RB's when you can get one solid starter that rushed over 1000 yards last year for the same price? Then he traded for a long snapper and paid him 5.5 mill. I guess I could swallow that but when was the last time we have had a bad snap? Dawkins seems to have a year or two left and I love the intensity but what if he doesnt? Why pass on Gibril Wilson or Yerimiah Bell for this guy? If your going to invest in 5 year contracts then why not get someone thats not going to be on social security by the time the contract is up?

He has absolutely no faith in Stokely as well. Reports are that he wants to move Stokely to 4th or 5th option. What a joke. Do you even know who the "slot machine" is? Before Welker was Stoke was and is and always will be.

Finally there's the Cutler fiasco. Wow, talk about one of the biggest bone headed moves i've ever seen. It's shocking that we're even discussing this. You want Matt Cassel that took over a 19-0 team last year because he led that same team to 11-5 or because he already knew your "system". In your pea brained of a head did you not think our franchise QB is worthy enough to learn your "system"? Did you even think it would disrupt the locker room chemistry or cause other guys like BMarsh, Royal and Sheff to want out? The trade was give up our probowl 11th overall pick in 2006 for New Englands backup and our 1st rounder. We in return get Tampas 1st (we actually slide down a few slot) and a 3rd along with Matt Cassel. So we down grade or QB and lose draft position in the 1st but gain a 3rd. BRILLIANT!

I must say i'm pretty disturbed as a fan. I wish I could personally give McDaniels and ear full right now. We should have never fired a Offensive genius only to hire another one when our Defense was such a mess. McDaniels age and lack of maturity is really showing right now. I was willing to give him a chance until he started messing with our QB. Now I say I wish he was never brought in.

SoCalImport
03-01-2009, 11:39 AM
Coaches should coach, and Players should play. Ahhhh, if only this was reality

McDaniels made a big mistake by not realizing that Cutler is one of those egos you have to stroke. I'll be honest, I love Jays talent, but his attitude is starting to wear on me. As a fan I want the face of my beloved Broncos to NOT act like a little kid that pouts every time his feeling are hurt.

BE A PRO!!!! DAMNIT!!

Northman
03-01-2009, 11:42 AM
Coaches should coach, and Players should play. Ahhhh, if only this was reality

McDaniels made a big mistake by not realizing that Cutler is one of those egos you have to stroke. I'll be honest, I love Jays talent, but his attitude is starting to wear on me. As a fan I want the face of my beloved Broncos to NOT act like a little kid that pouts every time his feeling are hurt.

BE A PRO!!!! DAMNIT!!

Jay does have his share of maturity issues but in this case i dont think you can find any player who wouldnt feel slighted when someone doesnt at least man up and let you know that you may be traded. Like i said, Jay has his problems but this particular issue falls squarely on Josh's lap. I just seriously hope that it doesnt cost us more than Jay's bruised ego at this point.

SoCalImport
03-01-2009, 11:50 AM
Jay does have his share of maturity issues but in this case i dont think you can find any player who wouldnt feel slighted when someone doesnt at least man up and let you know that you may be traded. Like i said, Jay has his problems but this particular issue falls squarely on Josh's lap. I just seriously hope that it doesnt cost us more than Jay's bruised ego at this point.

I Agree completely that this situation was created by the mishandling by our new HC, but the reaction of Cutler is just one more in a line of comments and actions (reactions) by Jay that leave me disappointed.
I just wish He'd man up and give a "No Comment" or even better "These are things beyond my control, all I can do is go out there and give 110% for the team and the fans"

McDaniels and Jay and all of us need to put this behind us.....please. Cuz if we/they can't, then this rebuild just became a complete fiasco

Northman
03-01-2009, 11:54 AM
I Agree completely that this situation was created by the mishandling by our new HC, but the reaction of Cutler is just one more in a line of comments and actions (reactions) by Jay that leave me disappointed.
I just wish He'd man up and give a "No Comment" or even better "These are things beyond my control, all I can do is go out there and give 110% for the team and the fans"

I just hate that Broncos QB and Winer come in the same thought right now.

Very true. This is one reason that if (crosses fingers) that if we keep Jay that i really hope that we sign a vet QB to back him up. He needs that kind of leadership and advice from someone who has dealt with PR issues. Thats probably the worse thing for Jay right now is that there is no one there to reign him back in or advise him on how to handle certain situations. Thats why right now its very important for McDaniel's to take control of this situation and make sure he and Jay are on the same page. With the way that Jay handles himself right now with his honesty this could spiral into a complete disaster.

BroncoWave
03-01-2009, 11:56 AM
I'm not ready to have him walk the plank like many of you seem to be. We'll see where we are after the season but wanting to fire him right now is just utterly moronic. If yall think things are in dissarray right now, firing McD would only make things worse.

Rex
03-01-2009, 11:56 AM
If this guy wins a ring..........


oh my.

Northman
03-01-2009, 11:56 AM
I'm not ready to have him walk the plank like many of you seem to be. We'll see where we are after the season but wanting to fire him right now is just utterly moronic. If yall think things are in dissarray right now, firing McD would only make things worse.

No one mentioned firing him. At least to my knowledge.

BroncoWave
03-01-2009, 11:59 AM
No one mentioned firing him. At least to my knowledge.

Have you read the board in the last 24 hours? :confused:

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34038

Northman
03-01-2009, 12:00 PM
Have you read the board in the last 24 hours? :confused:

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34038

Ok, but i meant no one has mentioned that in my thread so im not entirely sure why you even brought it up in here. :confused:

broncophan
03-01-2009, 12:00 PM
I think he was referring to his post

BroncoWave
03-01-2009, 12:02 PM
Ok, but i meant no one has mentioned that in my thread so im not entirely sure why you even brought it up in here. :confused:

The point I was trying to make with that post is that it's impossible to know if he was the right choice or not at this point and to at least give him a year. I used the "firing him" angle because that seems to be the most popular sentiment on the board right now.

BeefStew25
03-01-2009, 12:03 PM
The point I was trying to make with that post is that it's impossible to know if he was the right choice or not at this point and to at least give him a year. I used the "firing him" angle because that seems to be the most popular sentiment on the board right now.

You're just speculating. Unless you were in the room hearing the talks, you really have no clue what really went on.

BroncoWave
03-01-2009, 12:07 PM
This message is hidden because Bief Stue is on your ignore list.

Sad, I'm sure it was a good one!

BroncoJoe
03-01-2009, 12:23 PM
you're just speculating. Unless you were in the room hearing the talks, you really have no clue what really went on.

lol

DenBronx
03-01-2009, 12:27 PM
You're just speculating. Unless you were in the room hearing the talks, you really have no clue what really went on.

i think this is about the 20th time ive seen this.

still not getting old yet though. lol

skycoyote
03-01-2009, 12:39 PM
NO. McD was not the right choice. Bowlen should have got Spag or Rex Ryan. McD has taken a young team and made it old with a bunch of "has beens." I was a big supporter of getting ride of Shannahan but now I fear the worst--careful what you ask for cause you might get it.

Tned
03-01-2009, 12:49 PM
I'm still fine with the FO moves. I think if McDaniels really considered moving Cutler for Cassel (including his $15 million one year contract) straight up, it was very poor judgement, but that is going to come with a YOUNG first time head coach. That doesn't mean that in the long run that he won't still be a good head coach.

Think of it this way. Think of all the mistakes Cutler has made in his first three seasons (2 full + 5 games). Just because he hasn't gotten it done to date and has made some really bad mistakes, doesn't mean he won't turn into the franchise QB that we all think he will be.

Also, something to consider is the fact that McDaniels who has spent years watching Cassell (not just hte one year he started) may feel he is actually highly "underateed" vs. being the "one year wonder" that many paint him as.

At the same time, critics seem to now be split on Cutler. While a year or so ago, it was "one of the best young QBs in the league", now many feel that Cutler should have progressed farther at this point, while others are still very high on him.

So, I'm going to let this play out and see how we do over the next couple years before I start second guessing the moves.