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View Full Version : ALBERT HAYNESWORTH....Why Denver has him at the top of their wish list.



WARHORSE
02-20-2009, 10:05 PM
Of course theres lots of pros and cons of bringing in a free agent like Albert Haynesworth. Theres tons of potential for risk, and theres tons of potential for reward.

When it comes to an NFL owner, the thought of devoting that much money to a single player is enough to make the most poised of the poised pace the sidelines. These guys will eventually overcome the financial loss should it turn out to be a mistake. Its just the thought of looking like a buffoon among your peers is enough to slow down even the most pocket stuffed owners. Ask Daniel Snyder what playing 'big wig' will do for you among your peers in the NFL owners box.

But when it comes to Albert Haynesworth, no free agent on the market today promises so much.........and no more to any single franchise then the Denver Broncos.

See, in Denver, Pat Bowlen just fired a HOF headcoach. Opposing teams screeched with glee at the thought of Mike Shanahan pacing their sidelines. Then, Pat went and hired a 32 year old no name offensive coordinator, and promptly told the media, "I want to win the SUPERBOWL."

Pat Bowlen has grabbed the reigns of his franchise theyre saying. But they whisper, "Is this the second coming of Jerry Jones? Eddie DeBartolo? Al Davis?!?!?!?" Pat Bowlen does not want to look like a f-o-o-l. He is president of the Denver Broncos. He has a role in the running of the franchise. Its called, Number One.

Pat Bowlen thinks about Albert Haynesworth. In his dreams of glory. And in his nightmares of failure.

Albert Haynesworth single handedly makes their defense a force to contend with. In Josh McDaniels/Mike Nolans new flex 3-4/4-3 defense, there is no other player in the entire NFL today that offers more.

You see, Haynesworth can play the notorious NT position. He can not only play the position, he can rush the passer like no other from that position. He can throw offensive linemen around like rag dolls. He can single-handedly make Peyton Manning and Tom Brady wide eyed. He can single-handedly collapse the pocket right in front of the opposing QBs face. He can play 3-4 defensive end, and once again be a pass rushing force. Which OT is weaker, left or right..........thats the guy that gets to see Albert, so make sure the TE and the RB are there to help out. What kind of doors are opened up in the 3-4 defense whey your DE, or NT has to be double and triple teamed? It makes players like DJ Williams and Rey Maualuga into stars. Stars sell seats. Stars sell drinks. Stars sell food. Stars sell television commercialsStars sell jerseys. Seats, drinks, food, commercials and jerseys make money. Money pays salaries. Paid salaries make for very happy owners.

He can not only play the NT in the 3-4, but he can play DT in the 4-3. He He can single-handedly make players like Marcus Thomas, Elvis Dumerville and Jarvis Moss names to be recognized in mainstream NFL. Ask the AFC conference teams offsive lines what Albert Haynesworth means.

You want to stop the run? He is a terror vs opposing O linemen and the runningbacks they strive to protect.

Would this man still play like a madman if you pay him lots of money?
Would this man give his all when he has accomplished the pinnacle of financial stablility in this league?
Does this man want LEGACY? SUPERBOWLS? PRESTIGE?

These are the questions that are floating through the mind of Pat Bowlen.

Albert Haynesworth can take his young offense into the promised land........







This is what is going on in the mind of Pat Bowlen:



Albert Haynesworth.:shocked:


Albert Haynesworth.:shocked:


Albert Haynesworth.:shocked:

BeefStew25
02-20-2009, 10:10 PM
i am a bill brasky fan myself

SmilinAssasSin27
02-20-2009, 10:12 PM
Where did Haynesworth play college ball?

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 10:15 PM
I don't know if I agree with everything that's said in the article. For one thing Haynesworth wants to be the highest paid defensive tackle in the League and Xman is serious about not having one players being a cap hog then Haynesworth isn't our guy. Also I'm curious how Haynesworth would feel about being the guy who would have to take a beating at the line of scrimmage while the linebackers make all the plays.

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 10:15 PM
Where did Haynesworth play college ball?

Tennessee.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-20-2009, 10:19 PM
Tennessee.

That's right. Rocky Top bitches!!!!!:elefant:

topscribe
02-20-2009, 10:19 PM
I really doubt that Haynesworth will end up here. For one thing, the team has
to be smarting still from the cash they threw at Robertson . . . and others.
Moreover, they have more holes than just NT . . . yes, I know that's first
consideration, but there are other pretty good ones available, as I understand.

The most noticeable feature of Hayneswoth's seems to be his love for the
pronouns "I" and "me." I don't think that will go over particularly well with
either McD or Nolan.

I just don't see it. And I'm not going to worry about being wrong. I've been so
too many times already for that . . . :sad:

-----

SmilinAssasSin27
02-20-2009, 10:22 PM
I'm a big "don't overpay for 1 person" guy, but if there was 1 guy I'd back away from that for...

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 10:29 PM
I really doubt that Haynesworth will end up here. For one thing, the team has
to be smarting still from the cash they threw at Robertson . . . and others.
Moreover, they have more holes than just NT . . . yes, I know that's first
consideration, but there are other pretty good ones available, as I understand.

The most noticeable feature of Hayneswoth's seems to be his love for the
pronouns "I" and "me." I don't think that will go over particularly well with
either McD or Nolan.

I just don't see it. And I'm not going to worry about being wrong. I've been so
too many times already for that . . . :sad:

-----

A nose tackle in a 3-4 defense can't be an I or me kind of guy and for that matter neither can a 3-4 defensive end. They really need to be unselfish.

xzn
02-20-2009, 10:31 PM
We all seem to agree that there are only two players currently on our roster that would start for most other teams: DJ and Champ. If we were to get another marquee defender it'd make sense for that player to be a D-lineman! We'd have a cornerstone at each level of the defense. With Peppers franchised Haynesworth is the only guy who is an actual "difference maker" and if he would sign with us is probably worth whatever it takes to get him, imo.

With him hypothetically on board we could focus our draft on adding a fourth impact defender, whether that was another DL/NT or a LB or even a CB if that's how the draft fell to us.

Think about it this way: if we had Haynesworth, DJ and Maualuga in the middle three positions of a 3-4 defense we could get away with players who have limitations or lack of experience on the edge. Build from the middle out...

SmilinAssasSin27
02-20-2009, 10:32 PM
Signing him would go a long way in aiding the 3-4 switch. Again, I think we have some LBs if the DLine can do it's job. I wonder if he'd agree to have his deal front heavy so that the cap hit is biggest when we have the most room. I know his annual thereafter would appear to be low, but the lifeof the contract could still be what he wants, right?

NameUsedBefore
02-20-2009, 10:32 PM
For all we know X is just lying through his teeth as a smoke screen for the rest of the league.

topscribe
02-20-2009, 10:33 PM
We all seem to agree that there are only two players currently on our roster that would start for most other teams: DJ and Champ. If we were to get another marquee defender it'd make sense for that player to be a D-lineman! We'd have a cornerstone at each level of the defense. With Peppers franchised Haynesworth is the only guy who is an actual "difference maker" and if he would sign with us is probably worth whatever it takes to get him, imo.

With him hypothetically on board we could focus our draft on adding a fourth impact defender, whether that was another DL/NT or a LB or even a CB if that's how the draft fell to us.

Think about it this way: if we had Haynesworth, DJ and Maualuga in the middle three positions of a 3-4 defense we could get away with players who have limitations or lack of experience on the edge. Build from the middle out...

Good post. You put up a good argument there. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

SmilinAssasSin27
02-20-2009, 10:35 PM
We all seem to agree that there are only two players currently on our roster that would start for most other teams: DJ and Champ. If we were to get another marquee defender it'd make sense for that player to be a D-lineman! We'd have a cornerstone at each level of the defense. With Peppers franchised Haynesworth is the only guy who is an actual "difference maker" and if he would sign with us is probably worth whatever it takes to get him, imo.

With him hypothetically on board we could focus our draft on adding a fourth impact defender, whether that was another DL/NT or a LB or even a CB if that's how the draft fell to us.

Think about it this way: if we had Haynesworth, DJ and Maualuga in the middle three positions of a 3-4 defense we could get away with players who have limitations or lack of experience on the edge. Build from the middle out...


If we landed Haynesworth, my desire to draft Tyson Jackson would increase exponentially. He'd price us out of Canty and Igor and the DE position would still be a huge question. We can fix this DLine NOW if Haynesworth truly is in the mix.

Poet
02-20-2009, 10:35 PM
Albert Haynesworth is the best defensive player in the league. End of discussion.

He can do everything on the field. 8.5 sacks from his position is stupid good. And he has made bad players look great. He made Antwam Odom look like an above average DE. He made the run of the mill Tennessee LB's (barring Bullock, who is the consumate pro) look good.

He has to be doubled. If he isn't, he's going to embarrass someone.....badly. Very, very badly.

He plays the most important position on the defense. His play trickles down the team more than any other individual player.

Is he worth that huge contract?

Well, defense wins championships, and he's the best and most important defensive player.

Yeah, he is.

honz
02-20-2009, 10:36 PM
That's right. Rocky Top bitches!!!!!:elefant:

Losing to Wyoming at home is indeed rocky... :shocked:

I kid, I kid. :D

SmilinAssasSin27
02-20-2009, 10:36 PM
For all we know X is just lying through his teeth as a smoke screen for the rest of the league.

The same could be said for everything. Enjoy the banter. It's the offseason.

Speaking of lying...where has Blue Run been?

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 10:39 PM
We all seem to agree that there are only two players currently on our roster that would start for most other teams: DJ and Champ. If we were to get another marquee defender it'd make sense for that player to be a D-lineman! We'd have a cornerstone at each level of the defense. With Peppers franchised Haynesworth is the only guy who is an actual "difference maker" and if he would sign with us is probably worth whatever it takes to get him, imo.

With him hypothetically on board we could focus our draft on adding a fourth impact defender, whether that was another DL/NT or a LB or even a CB if that's how the draft fell to us.

Think about it this way: if we had Haynesworth, DJ and Maualuga in the middle three positions of a 3-4 defense we could get away with players who have limitations or lack of experience on the edge. Build from the middle out...

I think you have great argument here, but I just don't think Haynesworth is the kind of guy whose going go for playing a position where he wont accumulate eye popping stats.

topscribe
02-20-2009, 10:40 PM
If we landed Haynesworth, my desire to draft Tyson Jackson would increase exponentially. He'd price us out of Canty and Igor and the DE position would still be a huge question. We can fix this DLine NOW if Haynesworth truly is in the mix.

You got my mouth to watering. I'm picturing Haynesworth, flanked by Thomas
and Peterson, with Powell off the bench, and Maualuga and D.J. behind him.

*shakes head* I've got to come out of this. I still don't see it happening. And I
still question where his head really is . . .

-----

SmilinAssasSin27
02-20-2009, 10:41 PM
I think you have great argument here, but I just don't think Haynesworth is the kind of guy whose going for playing a position where he wont accumulate eye popping stats.

Good point. At the same time, do we wanna pay that much for a guy who "merely" eats blockers? I still think it'd be worth a look see.

NameUsedBefore
02-20-2009, 10:42 PM
The same could be said for everything. Enjoy the banter. It's the offseason.

Speaking of lying...where has Blue Run been?

No idea man, I just post here.

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 10:43 PM
Good point. At the same time, do we wanna pay that much for a guy who "merely" eats blockers? I still think it'd be worth a look see.

Playing in a 3-4 that's what you want him to do.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-20-2009, 10:43 PM
No idea man, I just post here.

sorry..that was more a jab than a question to you.:beer:

xzn
02-20-2009, 10:43 PM
I just think that our defense needs some credibility. To me it's a no brainer to go after him now that Peppers is franchised. I'd have rather gone after Peppers but that is no longer a feasible option without giving up picks, which we can NOT afford to do!!!

The question is not if we should try to sign Big Al, rather the question is IF HE WILL SIGN WITH US?!?!

Poet
02-20-2009, 10:44 PM
I think you have great argument here, but I just don't think Haynesworth is the kind of guy whose going for playing a position where he wont accumulate eye popping stats.

Well, to be fair 8.5 sacks is not eye-popping. It's a lot for his position.

However, he will get the same amount of fame that he had in Tennessee. Everyone knows who Casey Hampton is, and he's just some fat round blob who knocks a center on their butt.

From what I understand, and if I am wrong please correct me, Denver will be doing a hybrid right? Both 3-4 AND 4-3? Heck, Baltimore lines up Ngata as a DE from time to time, and they run the hybrid as well.

I think he can still get his stats, and more importantly, he can get his money.

I can't prove this, but I think if a base 4-3 team was offering a lil less money than you guys, he would go for you guys.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-20-2009, 10:45 PM
Playing in a 3-4 that's what you want him to do.

Right...but how much do you pay for that? Ngata, Rogers, Wilfork are all making crazy bank. I guess even if those individuals aren't putting up stats, they are improving everyone else's chances to.

nevcraw
02-20-2009, 10:51 PM
The same could be said for everything. Enjoy the banter. It's the offseason.

Speaking of lying...where has Blue Run been?

watching the agent trails..

EMB6903
02-20-2009, 10:55 PM
A nose tackle in a 3-4 defense can't be an I or me kind of guy and for that matter neither can a 3-4 defensive end. They really need to be unselfish.

a defensive tackle period cant be selfish. That being said Im really hoping Denver has him as their #1 priority other than giving Marshall an extension, Haynesworth could play and dominate as a 3-4 nose tackle or 3-4 defensive end.... The best defensive player in the game and is only going to get better

Rick
02-20-2009, 11:02 PM
Thomas Hanesworth Brace with peterson and powel + backing up
Doom, DJ, Maualuga, Moss with Boss, Larson + backing up.
Champ, FA with Pahmah JW + backing up
Woodyard, Barrett

I am willing to try. :)

Brace maybe a stretch getting him in the second and him being a fit at DE not sure on that but I think those 3 could certainly move an oline.

atwater27
02-20-2009, 11:02 PM
Excellent article! I would do backflips if we chose MR. Haynesworth to be the anchor of the D. Just a couple of thoughts on it. First, I have heard others argue that he isn't a 3-4 tackle. I have heard enough of the silly "Well this guy really isn't a 4-3 guy but would excel at the 3-4" or vice versa arguments. Football is football. Players play. I admit a handful of guys would do better at one than another, but if a defensive lineman has talent and half a brain, he can excel at both.

Second, there is only one thing I would want to be 110% sure of before we sign him..... Is he in tip top physical shape? Has he gained weight? What are the condition of his joints? We would need comprehensive physicals and assurance that he doesn't have too much wear and tear. Last thing I would want to hear is that our 70 million dollar nosetackle needs microfracture surgery in the preseason.

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 11:11 PM
Excellent article! I would do backflips if we chose MR. Haynesworth to be the anchor of the D. Just a couple of thoughts on it. First, I have heard others argue that he isn't a 3-4 tackle. I have heard enough of the silly "Well this guy really isn't a 4-3 guy but would excel at the 3-4" or vice versa arguments. Football is football. Players play. I admit a handful of guys would do better at one than another, but if a defensive lineman has talent and half a brain, he can excel at both.

Second, there is only one thing I would want to be 110% sure of before we sign him..... Is he in tip top physical shape? Has he gained weight? What are the condition of his joints? We would need comprehensive physicals and assurance that he doesn't have too much wear and tear. Last thing I would want to hear is that our 70 million dollar nosetackle needs microfracture surgery in the preseason.

I'm not saying Haynesworth doesn't have the ability, its just that my gut feeling is that I don't think he would want to do it.

dogfish
02-20-2009, 11:29 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/t9r8T2pyvwU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/t9r8T2pyvwU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Lonestar
02-20-2009, 11:46 PM
After reading the first post I stopped..

Think War has been drinking to much fermented Hole Kola berry juice:laugh::laugh:

I do not see them spending that much money on one player after nuking Robertson for his salary.. bad knees or not..

If some else has mentioned in those posts since sorry.. but I did not read them..

Love you War but time to layoff the berry or coconut juice..:salute:

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 11:50 PM
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I always liked that song. :D

fcspikeit
02-21-2009, 03:34 AM
After reading the first post I stopped..

Think War has been drinking to much fermented Hole Kola berry juice:laugh::laugh:

I do not see them spending that much money on one player after nuking Robertson for his salary.. bad knees or not..

If some else has mentioned in those posts since sorry.. but I did not read them..

Love you War but time to layoff the berry or coconut juice..:salute:


I have a question, (to anyone who wants to answer) If we had Haynesworth instead of Robertson inked to the same contract, do you really think we would have cut Haynesworth?

I say hell no! When it is put that way, is paying Haynesworth 16 Mill a year, really that out of the question? If there was even a consideration of keeping Robertson, Haynesworth would have to be a no brainer..

I'm just saying, just because we weren't willing to pay Robertson 16 Mill a year, in no way shape or form means we wouldn't be willing to pay that to Hayensworth...

dogfish
02-21-2009, 03:58 AM
I have a question, (to anyone who wants to answer) If we had Haynesworth instead of Robertson inked to the same contract, do you really think we would have cut Haynesworth?

I say hell no! When it is put that way, is paying Haynesworth 16 Mill a year, really that out of the question? If there was even a consideration of keeping Robertson, Haynesworth would have to be a no brainer..

I'm just saying, just because we weren't willing to pay Robertson 16 Mill a year, in no way shape or form means we wouldn't be willing to pay that to Hayensworth...


actually, i don't think we'd have paid that to haynesworth-- i'm sure we would have re-structured the contract instead of just cutting him, but that's crazy stupid money. . . that's HOF QB type money. . .

then again, i'd sure like to hope that our curent brain trust would never be stupid enough to put themselves in that position in the first place-- that kind of contract totally puts your back against the wall. . .

OrangeStar7
02-21-2009, 07:32 AM
Where did Haynesworth play college ball?

At my alma mater: Deep in the OTHER BIG ORANGE COUNTRY for THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE VOLS!!

Big Al's a BEAST; plays dirt tough, not dirty...well, i.e. except when he occasionally od's on Gatorade and steps on a downed opposing player's neck or hand or arm or leg, or whatever is still moving after one of his monster knocks!

I say sign him if we can get him for the right price! Might not be easy though; 'cause reportedly he's looking to be the highest paid DL in the league!

claymore
02-21-2009, 09:28 AM
Haynesworth scares me. I didnt even know who the guy was till he stepped on that Cowboy's face. And that was like the third year into his old contract. He had 2 good seasons, and has always had work ethic issues.. blah blah blah....

atwater27
02-21-2009, 09:55 AM
actually, i don't think we'd have paid that to haynesworth-- i'm sure we would have re-structured the contract instead of just cutting him, but that's crazy stupid money. . . that's HOF QB type money. . .

then again, i'd sure like to hope that our curent brain trust would never be stupid enough to put themselves in that position in the first place-- that kind of contract totally puts your back against the wall. . .

You gotta keep up with the times, man! Salaries go up exponentially every year. Yesterday's HOF QB contract is today's 2nd round rookie contract. Besides, What is the one position on defense that generally commands QB money when they are wworth a shit? Defensive Tackle.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-21-2009, 10:34 AM
At my alma mater: Deep in the OTHER BIG ORANGE COUNTRY for THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE VOLS!!

Big Al's a BEAST; plays dirt tough, not dirty...well, i.e. except when he occasionally od's on Gatorade and steps on a downed opposing player's neck or hand or arm or leg, or whatever is still moving after one of his monster knocks!

I say sign him if we can get him for the right price! Might not be easy though; 'cause reportedly he's looking to be the highest paid DL in the league!

I know. I'm a HUGE Vols fan. I just wanted to make the point that the baddest dude in football was a Vol.

WARHORSE
02-21-2009, 10:38 AM
The thread is about what Haynesworth would mean to the Broncos.


Not sayin we will sign him.

I am saying that if a team really wanted to change their defense after watching what ours did last year, and it was seeking to win the superbowl year...........Haynesworths play has the most to offer hands down.

Whether we sign him or not isnt really the point. The point is that if you watched what happened to the Titans defense when he wasnt in there vs when he was, he was hugely missed.

Want to bring defense to Denver. No single player in the league can impact the defense more than Haynesworth.

Not Justin Tuck. Not Julius Peppers. Not Ray Lewis. Not Patrick Willis.

For everyone who talks about our corners getting burnt cause of no pass rush and wanting to generate pressure, no one brings more than Fat Albert. Haynesworth next to Dumerville, Moss, Thomas or Crowder makes them all exponentially more effective.

Its simply true.:coffee:

WARHORSE
02-21-2009, 11:04 AM
actually, i don't think we'd have paid that to haynesworth-- i'm sure we would have re-structured the contract instead of just cutting him, but that's crazy stupid money. . . that's HOF QB type money. . .

then again, i'd sure like to hope that our curent brain trust would never be stupid enough to put themselves in that position in the first place-- that kind of contract totally puts your back against the wall. . .




Puts our backs against a wall?


Jamarcus: $68 million, 32 million guaranteed

McFadden: $60 million, 26 guaranteed

Kelly: $50 million, 18 guaranteed

Gallery: $60 million, 18 guaranteed

Javon Walker: $55 million, 16 guaranteed

Hall: $70 million, 24 million guaranteed

Huff: $43 million, 16 guaranteed

Asumugha: three year: $45 million, 30 million guaranteed

skycoyote
02-21-2009, 12:30 PM
Warhorse, I think he is a great player and he would definitely help us. I just think the timing is wrong for a high priced free agent. IMO broncos need to draft on the ILB & NT/DT and develop those players. IF the defense shows promise then we go after a big name next year. Just my response to your question.

skycoyote
02-21-2009, 12:42 PM
You might be right war, Haynesworth might be our only option. Raji will be gone, Brace maybe, Shaun Lee Hill has the size but is from a small school. There isn't alot of NT/DT in the draft. So if we got Haynesworth and maybe Rey at ILB is would be a heck of a start for a 3-4.

Northman
02-21-2009, 12:45 PM
I don't know if I agree with everything that's said in the article. For one thing Haynesworth wants to be the highest paid defensive tackle in the League and Xman is serious about not having one players being a cap hog then Haynesworth isn't our guy. Also I'm curious how Haynesworth would feel about being the guy who would have to take a beating at the line of scrimmage while the linebackers make all the plays.


Bam! Again. Dont sell the farm for just one player. We need more help than just one position. If we can get him for a reasonable price and still fill the other areas than great. But, considering what he is looking for i dont want to give up everything for one player.

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 01:09 PM
I have a question, (to anyone who wants to answer) If we had Haynesworth instead of Robertson inked to the same contract, do you really think we would have cut Haynesworth?

I say hell no! When it is put that way, is paying Haynesworth 16 Mill a year, really that out of the question? If there was even a consideration of keeping Robertson, Haynesworth would have to be a no brainer..

I'm just saying, just because we weren't willing to pay Robertson 16 Mill a year, in no way shape or form means we wouldn't be willing to pay that to Hayensworth...

Well hanesworth might have been a steal at what ever he was supposed to cost this year knowing that the rate would go down next year and the year thereafter..

But Unless I'm reading all the cards wrong Pat, Xanders and Mc Kid seem to say they want to build via the draft and NO ONE player is worth 15 million a year they would rather give that money to 2-5 people that are role players..

Now it might all be a smoke screen and they may surprise me by paying that kind of money.. But typically other than QB none to their players from their old teams got those types of deals as FA's... It just was not good policy to overpay a few..

Cugel
02-21-2009, 01:13 PM
Right...but how much do you pay for that? Ngata, Rogers, Wilfork are all making crazy bank. I guess even if those individuals aren't putting up stats, they are improving everyone else's chances to.

Haynesworth is making WAY more than Wilfork & Ngata or Rogers already -- and he wants a big raise!


Vince Wilfork (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_contracts.aspx?sport=NFL&majteam=NE), NT Patriots: 7/19/2004: Signed a six-year, $18.05 million contract. The deal included a $5.825 million signing bonus. 2009: $800,000, 2010: Free Agent


Haloti Ngata is still on his rookie contract so it's REALLY not a fair comparison. But, he's making peanuts compared with Haynesworth:


7/28/2006: Signed a five-year, $11.9 million contract. The deal includes $9.275 million guaranteed. 2009: $823,750, 2010: $996,250, 2011: Free Agent

His cap figure for 2009 is less than $3 million! That's lunch money for what Haynesworth wants. :coffee:

The Steelers NT Casey Hampton is better paid:


8/22/2005: Signed a five-year, $22.75 million contract. The deal included a $6.975 million signing bonus. 2009: $3.075 million, 2010: Free Agent. Cap charge: $4,818,750 (2009).

Still, Hampton's 2009 cap-hit of $4.8 million is still very LOW for elite DL and nothing like what he'd make as a FA.

The Chargers Jamal Williams is another elite NT:


5/26/2005: Signed a six-year, $27.5 million contract. The deal includes $11.5 million guaranteed. 2009: $3.9 million, 2010: $5 million, 2011: Free Agent

Cap hit of almost $4 million again is quite LOW for an elite NT!

NOW compare Haynesworth's salary demands:


His contract (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:HMJeJDvervYJ:www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx%3Fsport%3Dnfl%26id%3D2636+albert+ haynesworth+contract&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a)will likely have more years than Nnamdi Asomugha's, but probably won't trump Aso's $15.1M annual average.


Haynesworth is seeking a six-year deal that would make him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. That designation currently belongs to Vikings defensive end Jared Allen, who last offseason signed a six-year contract that included $12.2 million per year and $32 million in guarantees.

The Titans and Haynesworth's camp haven't come close to approaching those numbers. According to a source, the Titans have offered a contract in the four-year, $36 million range.

So, Haynesworth is looking for MORE THAN $32 million in GUARANTEED contracts. He wants closer to $40 million guaranteed and close to an $80 million contract (Jared Allen's contract was for $73.2 and he wasn't even a FA!)

Albert's stats aren't consistent either. 2008 was a MUCH better year than previous years. You could argue that in his 7th year he's breaking out. He's still a relatively young 27 years old (he turns 28 this June) so he should have about 5 good years left. But a LOT is uncertain.



2008 G:14 GS:14 Total: 51 Solo: 41 Assists:10 Sacks: 8.5 Safety: 2 Passes Defended: 0.0 Int: 0 Yds: 0-- -- -- --
2007 G: 13 GS: 12 Total: 40 Solo: 32 Assists: 8 Sacks: 6.0 Passes defended: 4 Int: 0.0 -- -- -- --
2006 G: 11 GS: 10 Total: 30 Solo: 23 Assists: 7 Sacks: 2.0 Passes Defended: 2 Int: 0.0 Yds: 0
2005 G: 14 GS: 14 Total: 52 Solo: 36 Assists: 16 Sacks: 3.0 Ints: 1 Yds: 0.0 -- -- -- --
2004 G: 10 GS: 10 Total: 36 Solo: 25 Assists: 11 Sacks: 1.0 Ints: 2 Yds: 0.0 --

Albert put on a big contract drive in 2008 and now it's payday. You have to wonder whether he'd be motivated to continue his play from 2008 or whether he'd take plays or even games off with a guaranteed $40 million to count on.

Overall, this is NOT a good investment. :coffee:

He's a great player, and a real difference maker, but he wants VASTLY more money than any NT in the NFL, on the range of $13 million a year for the next 6 years, with about 1/2 of it guaranteed regardless of whether he decides to play hard or not.

Then there are the reports that he wants to stay in the Southeast, with the Bucs as his preferred location. Also that he wants to go to a "winner" -- and clearly the Broncos are in rebuilding mold, so they don't qualify on that count.

Albert wants the Cowboys to break the bank to hire him. Jerry Jones has just a big enough ego to want to do it too.

All in all, I think people need to get this idea out of their heads. Just because the Broncos have some money to spend in finding FAs, doesn't mean they want to spend it all on Albert Haynesworth.

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 01:14 PM
actually, i don't think we'd have paid that to haynesworth-- i'm sure we would have re-structured the contract instead of just cutting him, but that's crazy stupid money. . . that's HOF QB type money. . .

then again, i'd sure like to hope that our curent brain trust would never be stupid enough to put themselves in that position in the first place-- that kind of contract totally puts your back against the wall. . .

My op[inion was mikey was flailing like a guy in very deep water when they went after him.. hoping he would be the salvation for a bunch of jobs..

Initially Pat and Him said it was not their intention to go after FA's and would build via the draft.. and frankly later on he just to big a fish to pass on..

Knowing that had to sign him or they were really up excrement creek without a paddle they put a poison pill was in the contract when they redid the contract during the trade..

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 01:20 PM
The thread is about what Haynesworth would mean to the Broncos.


Not sayin we will sign him.

I am saying that if a team really wanted to change their defense after watching what ours did last year, and it was seeking to win the superbowl year...........Haynesworths play has the most to offer hands down.

Whether we sign him or not isnt really the point. The point is that if you watched what happened to the Titans defense when he wasnt in there vs when he was, he was hugely missed.

Want to bring defense to Denver. No single player in the league can impact the defense more than Haynesworth.

Not Justin Tuck. Not Julius Peppers. Not Ray Lewis. Not Patrick Willis.

For everyone who talks about our corners getting burnt cause of no pass rush and wanting to generate pressure, no one brings more than Fat Albert. Haynesworth next to Dumerville, Moss, Thomas or Crowder makes them all exponentially more effective.

Its simply true.:coffee:

Your absolutely correct he is the ONE impact player that can with a couple of draftees rotating in next to him can make the biggest impact..

But the whole question is is he worth it since he wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL.. To me he is not ..

I'll get the best NT on the draft available and hope he turns int the next Big Albert.. Save the huge money we would have to spend on him and apply it to a bunch of second tier Fa's to fill the MASSIVE hole created over the past decade of failed DAFT choices..

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 01:25 PM
Haynesworth is making WAY more than Wilfork & Ngata or Rogers already -- and he wants a big raise!



Haloti Ngata is still on his rookie contract so it's REALLY not a fair comparison. But, he's making peanuts compared with Haynesworth:


His cap figure for 2009 is less than $3 million! That's lunch money for what Haynesworth wants. :coffee:

The Steelers NT Casey Hampton is better paid:


Still, Hampton's 2009 cap-hit of $4.8 million is still very LOW for elite DL and nothing like what he'd make as a FA.

The Chargers Jamal Williams is another elite NT:


Cap hit of almost $4 million again is quite LOW for an elite NT!

NOW compare Haynesworth's salary demands:





So, Haynesworth is looking for MORE THAN $32 million in GUARANTEED contracts. He wants closer to $40 million guaranteed and close to an $80 million contract (Jared Allen's contract was for $73.2 and he wasn't even a FA!)

Albert's stats aren't consistent either. 2008 was a MUCH better year than previous years. You could argue that in his 7th year he's breaking out. He's still a relatively young 27 years old (he turns 28 this June) so he should have about 5 good years left. But a LOT is uncertain.



Albert put on a big contract drive in 2008 and now it's payday. You have to wonder whether he'd be motivated to continue his play from 2008 or whether he'd take plays or even games off with a guaranteed $40 million to count on.

Overall, this is NOT a good investment. :coffee:

He's a great player, and a real difference maker, but he wants VASTLY more money than any NT in the NFL, on the range of $13 million a year for the next 6 years, with about 1/2 of it guaranteed regardless of whether he decides to play hard or not.

Then there are the reports that he wants to stay in the Southeast, with the Bucs as his preferred location. Also that he wants to go to a "winner" -- and clearly the Broncos are in rebuilding mold, so they don't qualify on that count.

Albert wants the Cowboys to break the bank to hire him. Jerry Jones has just a big enough ego to want to do it too.

All in all, I think people need to get this idea out of their heads. Just because the Broncos have some money to spend in finding FAs, doesn't mean they want to spend it all on Albert Haynesworth.


best post of the thread good logical level headed post.. AGAIN

atwater27
02-21-2009, 01:34 PM
That's OK, we'll just let someone else sign Haynesworth and leap into the top 10 in defense. We are rebuilding anyways, we'll get run over for a few years and get good high picks as well. So we shouldn't sign Haynesworth.

Cugel
02-21-2009, 01:56 PM
Originally Posted by fcspikeit View Post
I have a question, (to anyone who wants to answer) If we had Haynesworth instead of Robertson inked to the same contract, do you really think we would have cut Haynesworth?

I say hell no! When it is put that way, is paying Haynesworth 16 Mill a year, really that out of the question? If there was even a consideration of keeping Robertson, Haynesworth would have to be a no brainer..

I'm just saying, just because we weren't willing to pay Robertson 16 Mill a year, in no way shape or form means we wouldn't be willing to pay that to Hayensworth...

Dude, this is like comparing apples to rocks. IF Haynesworth wanted only $16 million for 2009 or even $16 guaranteed, he'd have signed with the Titans. They were offering him more than that and he rejected it.

Robertson's $16 million was a one time roster bonus, which would be his big payday on a 4 year contract, so the real hit was less than $5 million a year over the life of the contract. (Even this would have been re-negotiated to make it more cap friendly if the team had wanted to keep Robertson).

Haynesworth wants something like $13 million PER SEASON FOR SIX YEARS, and 1/2 of that amount guaranteed! Total close to $80 million -- and we know this because he wants MORE money than Jared Allen's colossal contract.

Take a look at what we're talking about!


Jared Allen (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_contracts.aspx?sport=NFL&majteam=MIN): 4/23/2008: Signed a six-year, $73.26 million contract. The deal contains $31 million guaranteed, including a $15.5 million signing bonus. 2009: $7.75 million, 2010: $6.3801 million (+ $8 million guaranteed-for-injury roster bonus), 2011: $8,979,438, 2012: $11,619,850, 2013: $14,280,612, 2014: Free Agent

Remember Haynesworth wants a lot MORE than this!

Allen's salary for 2009 is $7.75 million, and the annual pro-rated portion of his $15.5 million signing bonus is $2.58 million. So, Allen is costing the Vikings $10.33 million for 2009, in 2010 this goes up to a WHOPPING $16.96 million (including the $6 million salary, plus $8 million roster bonus). In 2011 it goes down to a measly $11.5 million, in 2012, $14 million, in 2013, $16.2 million, etc.

So Xanders would be asking Pat Bowlen to pay Haynesworth over $20-25 million THIS year, including his signing bonus and salary. Then average around $10-12 million a year for the next 5 years thereafter. :coffee:

And it's not as if they can CUT him if things don't work out for any reason! The ENTIRE unpaid portion of his signing bonus and all guarantees would immediately be accelerated onto THIS year's salary cap if they cut or traded him.

We're talking about close to $40 million guaranteed divided by six = $6.6 million in guarantees a year.

Example: In year 3 Haynesworth gets involved in another head-stomping incident, or gets his 4th DUI and is suspended. His production has been down and he and the team are arguing and it's undermining discipline. The coaches want to unload him. What would it cost?

Answer: Instant $20 million cap hit! :coffee:

turftoad
02-21-2009, 02:21 PM
Dude, this is like comparing apples to rocks. IF Haynesworth wanted only $16 million for 2009 or even $16 guaranteed, he'd have signed with the Titans. They were offering him more than that and he rejected it.

Robertson's $16 million was a one time roster bonus, which would be his big payday on a 4 year contract, so the real hit was less than $5 million a year over the life of the contract. (Even this would have been re-negotiated to make it more cap friendly if the team had wanted to keep Robertson).

Haynesworth wants something like $13 million PER SEASON FOR SIX YEARS, and 1/2 of that amount guaranteed! Total close to $80 million -- and we know this because he wants MORE money than Jared Allen's colossal contract.

Take a look at what we're talking about!


Remember Haynesworth wants a lot MORE than this!

Allen's salary for 2009 is $7.75 million, and the annual pro-rated portion of his $15.5 million signing bonus is $2.58 million. So, Allen is costing the Vikings $10.33 million for 2009, in 2010 this goes up to a WHOPPING $16.96 million (including the $6 million salary, plus $8 million roster bonus). In 2011 it goes down to a measly $11.5 million, in 2012, $14 million, in 2013, $16.2 million, etc.

So Xanders would be asking Pat Bowlen to pay Haynesworth over $20-25 million THIS year, including his signing bonus and salary. Then average around $10-12 million a year for the next 5 years thereafter. :coffee:

And it's not as if they can CUT him if things don't work out for any reason! The ENTIRE unpaid portion of his signing bonus and all guarantees would immediately be accelerated onto THIS year's salary cap if they cut or traded him.

We're talking about close to $40 million guaranteed divided by six = $6.6 million in guarantees a year.

Example: In year 3 Haynesworth gets involved in another head-stomping incident, or gets his 4th DUI and is suspended. His production has been down and he and the team are arguing and it's undermining discipline. The coaches want to unload him. What would it cost?

Answer: Instant $20 million cap hit! :coffee:

Yeah, we have 38 mill available, signing Haynsworth would take up over half of that.
We need more help than just that.

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 02:30 PM
Yeah, we have 38 mill available, signing Haynsworth would take up over half of that.
We need more help than just that.

But, but, but, but, someone else will get him..

we can't let the happen..

they might get better than we are..

What the hell is wrong with all of you..:laugh::laugh:

broncobryce
02-21-2009, 02:54 PM
Finally some sense comes into the conversation. Haynesworth reminds me of a guy who plays great during contract year, gets paid, then gets lazy and half-asses it the rest of the time. I just don't trust the guy.

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 03:02 PM
Finally some sense comes into the conversation. Haynesworth reminds me of a guy who plays great during contract year, gets paid, then gets lazy and half-asses it the rest of the time. I just don't trust the guy.

that is why I'm a huge fan of incentive based contracts..

But this clown will never go for one.. He will become our next price got a fat contract and decided to spend it on a recording studio and only played when he was called out by mickey or Rod..

Give me the guy with chip on his shoulder any day and offer him incentives.. those are the Gold Standard folks you want..

EMB6903
02-21-2009, 03:23 PM
Haynesworth is making WAY more than Wilfork & Ngata or Rogers already -- and he wants a big raise!



Haloti Ngata is still on his rookie contract so it's REALLY not a fair comparison. But, he's making peanuts compared with Haynesworth:


His cap figure for 2009 is less than $3 million! That's lunch money for what Haynesworth wants. :coffee:

The Steelers NT Casey Hampton is better paid:


Still, Hampton's 2009 cap-hit of $4.8 million is still very LOW for elite DL and nothing like what he'd make as a FA.

The Chargers Jamal Williams is another elite NT:


Cap hit of almost $4 million again is quite LOW for an elite NT!

NOW compare Haynesworth's salary demands:





So, Haynesworth is looking for MORE THAN $32 million in GUARANTEED contracts. He wants closer to $40 million guaranteed and close to an $80 million contract (Jared Allen's contract was for $73.2 and he wasn't even a FA!)

Albert's stats aren't consistent either. 2008 was a MUCH better year than previous years. You could argue that in his 7th year he's breaking out. He's still a relatively young 27 years old (he turns 28 this June) so he should have about 5 good years left. But a LOT is uncertain.



Albert put on a big contract drive in 2008 and now it's payday. You have to wonder whether he'd be motivated to continue his play from 2008 or whether he'd take plays or even games off with a guaranteed $40 million to count on.

Overall, this is NOT a good investment. :coffee:

He's a great player, and a real difference maker, but he wants VASTLY more money than any NT in the NFL, on the range of $13 million a year for the next 6 years, with about 1/2 of it guaranteed regardless of whether he decides to play hard or not.

Then there are the reports that he wants to stay in the Southeast, with the Bucs as his preferred location. Also that he wants to go to a "winner" -- and clearly the Broncos are in rebuilding mold, so they don't qualify on that count.

Albert wants the Cowboys to break the bank to hire him. Jerry Jones has just a big enough ego to want to do it too.

All in all, I think people need to get this idea out of their heads. Just because the Broncos have some money to spend in finding FAs, doesn't mean they want to spend it all on Albert Haynesworth.

all this is irrelivent, Wilfork, and Ngata are still on their 1st contract... they will get paid just like Haynesworth when they get re signed.... and Hampton's deal was done in 2005, a lot of things have changed since then, prices have went WAY UP.... get with the picture folks, you are going to have to over pay for every starter in this league these days

and also, you are judging his production on his stats???? HES A DEFENSIVE TACKLE! you act like this is a sexy position that you can base a players production on statistics.

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 03:31 PM
all this is irrelivent, Wilfork, and Ngata are still on their 1st contract... they will get paid just like Haynesworth when they get re signed.... and Hampton's deal was done in 2005, a lot of things have changed since then, prices have went WAY UP.... get with the picture folks, you are going to have to over pay for every starter in this league these days

and also, you are judging his production on his stats???? HES A DEFENSIVE TACKLE! you act like this is a sexy position that you can base a players production on statistics.

and hanesworth is going to get a monster contract JUST NOT from US.. so time to start thinking about second tier players to fill those defensive holes..

EMB6903
02-21-2009, 03:36 PM
and hanesworth is going to get a monster contract JUST NOT from US.. so time to start thinking about second tier players to fill those defensive holes..


our oline wasnt going to do much this past year as well right?

dont expect much from Eddie Royal in 2008 either.... right?

Our front office isnt stupid enough to give Marshall a big time contract too....... Right??

anyways...

filling MULTIPLE defensive holes through FA? thats what you want to do?

dogfish
02-21-2009, 04:14 PM
Haynesworth scares me. I didnt even know who the guy was till he stepped on that Cowboy's face. And that was like the third year into his old contract. He had 2 good seasons, and has always had work ethic issues.. blah blah blah....

uh-huh. . . . before he hit his contract year, haynesworth was always known as a guy that had immense talent but lacked the motivation to make the most of it on a regular basis. . .

is it coincidence that in five non-contract years he averaged 36 tackles and 2 sacks, and then in two contract years he averaged 44.5 tackles and 7 sacks?

IMO, the most telling factor is the way the titans have handled him. . . they've never been afraid to hand out big contracts (remember guys like eddie george and steve mcnair?), and they've had the salary cap room to give albert pretty much whatever they wanted to. . . after 2006 he had a DMVP type season, and was maybe the single biggest reason that a team that basically had no right to be in the playoffs got there. . . so did they sign him to a massive extension? they had the room, but they paid a lot more than they would've had to and franchised him instead because they didn't trust him to play hard. . .

so this year he has another DMVP type season, and helps a team that would probably struggle to make the playoffs without him become the conference's top seed and make a run at an undefeated season before they fell off a little down the stretch. . . so surely they want to lock him up, regardless of the cost, right? he's a difference-maker, the heart and soul of their team on the field. . . you pay those guys whatever they want, just like the colts did with manning and freeney, like the seahawks did with sean alexander, like the cards did with larry fitz, etc etc. . . like the cowboys will do with d ware next offseason. . .

instead, the team has refused to meet his demands-- they're offering a big contract but they clearly don't want to just sell the farm to keep this guy, and that should tell people something coming from the coaches and front office that know the guy best. . . the fact that he has admitted anger-management issues and is one dumb outburst away from a big suspension probably doesn't help either. . . watch this guy cash in a mammoth payday and go hard for all of about a year and a half before he starts loafing again. . .

EMB6903
02-21-2009, 04:17 PM
Haynesworth was always a productive Defensive Tackle, I dont know where you guys are getting this info.... just because he wasnt getting all the hype doesnt mean he wasnt a stout DT

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 04:36 PM
our oline wasnt going to do much this past year as well right?

dont expect much from Eddie Royal in 2008 either.... right?

Our front office isnt stupid enough to give Marshall a big time contract too....... Right??

anyways...

filling MULTIPLE defensive holes through FA? thats what you want to do?

Did anyone really think Clady, Kuper and Harris as rookies at their position really was going to do that well?? seriously how many thought they should have been 3-4 Pro bowlers on this team.. At the beginning of TC.

When was the last time a rookie WR really did that well in the NFL and then when you say there have been a few .. Ask yourself, someone that was really drafted to be KR as the first priority EVER became a great rookie WR as a Bronco.. Never is the answer to that..

Has the front Office offered a big time contract to Marshall and I missed the announcement last I heard was they were talking..


Yes I want to fill some of the holes with Second tier Players on Defensive most of which are starters on their existing teams or prized back ups.. Folks that will Be a HUGE upgrade over the starters from last year..

I do not think we need 10+mil per years players on Defense the next 4-5 years.. And I do not think Mc Kid and Xander do either..

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 04:39 PM
Haynesworth was always a productive Defensive Tackle, I dont know where you guys are getting this info.... just because he wasnt getting all the hype doesnt mean he wasnt a stout DT

but YOU don't get it when your paying 80+ millions for someone you want to to be more than stout.. You want them to play each year that are not contract years also..

TXBRONC
02-21-2009, 04:41 PM
Haynesworth was always a productive Defensive Tackle, I dont know where you guys are getting this info.... just because he wasnt getting all the hype doesnt mean he wasnt a stout DT

I don't know EMB, I just took a look at Haynesworth's career stats and I think Dog is probably right. His his numbers took increased dramatically the last two years compared to his first five seasons. 2005 he had year similar to the last two even at that there are still some big differences in his in comparing stats from 2005 to ones from 2007 and 2008.

He's immensely talented and he's had two great seasons back to back but the Titans don't want to pay him what he asking for. If I were a GM it would make me take pause.

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 04:53 PM
I don't know EMB, I just took a look at Haynesworth's career stats and I think Dog is probably right. His his numbers took increased dramatically the last two years compared to his first five seasons. 2005 he had year similar to the last two even at that there are still some big differences in his in comparing stats from 2005 to ones from 2007 and 2008.

He's immensely talented and he's had two great seasons back to back but the Titans don't want to pay him what he asking for. If I were a GM it would make take pause.


Good points, let me add both of the last two seasons were contract years IIRC he was a FA last years and got franchised the only reason He was not franchised this year was provision in his contract if he made the pro bowl they could not franchise him again..

An absolute stud at DT but IMHO we can't afford him, well lets put it another way we can afford him, but not have room the next 4-5 years to resign most of the 2006-08 crop of rookies.. ..

EMB6903
02-21-2009, 05:02 PM
Did anyone really think Clady, Kuper and Harris as rookies at their position really was going to do that well?? seriously how many thought they should have been 3-4 Pro bowlers on this team.. At the beginning of TC.

When was the last time a rookie WR really did that well in the NFL and then when you say there have been a few .. Ask yourself, someone that was really drafted to be KR as the first priority EVER became a great rookie WR as a Bronco.. Never is the answer to that..

Has the front Office offered a big time contract to Marshall and I missed the announcement last I heard was they were talking..


Yes I want to fill some of the holes with Second tier Players on Defensive most of which are starters on their existing teams or prized back ups.. Folks that will Be a HUGE upgrade over the starters from last year..

I do not think we need 10+mil per years players on Defense the next 4-5 years.. And I do not think Mc Kid and Xander do either..

Im just saying your "guarentees" havent paid off for you yet... why keep trying???

and I dont want to fill multiple defensive holes through FA, if anything I would like to Overpay for an Elite defensive tackle, then build around him through the draft, what defenses are successful building there defense with a few FA pick ups?

It seems like you want to go the route this organization has been going with in recent years going out and getting 2nd tier players like Courtney Brown, Gerrard Warren, Ebenezer Ekuban, Boss Bailey, Niko, Dre Bly, Nate Webster, Marlon Mccree, Sam Adams, John Engleberger, Michael Myers etc....I think Its time for this FO to grows some Balls and go out and pay for an elite talent on the defensive line... something this team has lacked for years..... you can build around a dominant defensive lineman... unlike a CB (who Denver tried to do with Champ)

EMB6903
02-21-2009, 05:06 PM
I don't know EMB, I just took a look at Haynesworth's career stats and I think Dog is probably right. His his numbers took increased dramatically the last two years compared to his first five seasons. 2005 he had year similar to the last two even at that there are still some big differences in his in comparing stats from 2005 to ones from 2007 and 2008.

He's immensely talented and he's had two great seasons back to back but the Titans don't want to pay him what he asking for. If I were a GM it would make me take pause.

again, you cant judge a defensive tackles production on statistics, just like you cant judge a CB's production on statistics.... a defensive tackles job isnt to rack up tackles, its to cause penetration, and to make sure those interior lineman dont get to that second level... Haynesworth does that as good as anybody ive ever seen... and to go along with that hes an amazing pass rusher whos as versatile as any defensive lineman in this league.

TXBRONC
02-21-2009, 05:17 PM
again, you cant judge a defensive tackles production on statistics, just like you cant judge a CB's production on statistics.... a defensive tackles job isnt to rack up tackles, its to cause penetration, and to make sure those interior lineman dont get to that second level... Haynesworth does that as good as anybody ive ever seen... and to go along with that hes a amazing pass rusher.

As I said, when I see that much of a spike in his stats compared to previous years it gives me reason to pause. Not only that from what I have seen (and I know its limited) it doesn't look like the Titans have asked him to play two -gap, which means they let him attack rather than hold his ground so he should consistently put the kind of numbers he has the past two seasons.

At any rate, as talented as he is, I sure hope Denver doesn't want tie themselves down to $30 million in guaranteed money.

EMB6903
02-21-2009, 05:27 PM
As I said, when I see that much of a spike in his stats compared to previous years it gives me reason to pause. Not only that from what I have seen (and I know its limited) it doesn't look like the Titans have asked him to play two -gap, which means they let him attack rather than hold his ground so he should consistently put the kind of numbers he has the past two seasons.

At any rate, as talented as he is, I sure hope Denver doesn't want tie themselves down to $30 million in guaranteed money.

good points,but I still dont see where you see such a difference in statistics during his contract years.... I think from 2004-2008 his "statistics" have been very consistent,

2004- 36 tackles 1.0 sack in 10 games
2005- 52 tackles 3 sacks in 14 games
2006- 30 tackles 2 sacks in 10 games due to suspension
2007- 40 tackles 6 sacks in 13 games
2008- 51 tackles 8.5 sacks in 14 games

if anything hes gotten better each year hes played, as you should with any player, but each year in the games hes started hes been very productive... even when you look at it statistically (which is misleading when judging a defensive tackle)

fcspikeit
02-21-2009, 06:06 PM
I don't know EMB, I just took a look at Haynesworth's career stats and I think Dog is probably right. His his numbers took increased dramatically the last two years compared to his first five seasons. 2005 he had year similar to the last two even at that there are still some big differences in his in comparing stats from 2005 to ones from 2007 and 2008.

He's immensely talented and he's had two great seasons back to back but the Titans don't want to pay him what he asking for. If I were a GM it would make me take pause.

Where are you getting that TX? Last I heard he didn't want to sign with them until he seen what the market would offer him.

Don't you think the Titans would have franchised him if they cold have? That would have been well over 10 Mill.. Something like 40% more then last year.

dogfish
02-21-2009, 06:18 PM
Where are you getting that TX? Last I heard he didn't want to sign with them until he seen what the market would offer him.

Don't you think the Titans would have franchised him if they cold have? That would have been well over 10 Mill.. Something like 40% more then last year.

you're right, there's no guarantee that they won't still re-sign him-- they've already offered him a big contract, and i'm sure their FO will remain in close contact with his agent. . . however, the fact that they're even willing to let him get to the open market is somewhat telling IMO. . . they've had every opportunity to lock him up and they haven't been willing to pay what he thinks he's worth. . . it doesn't mean they don't want to keep him, obviously they do, but they're being cautious and that suggests to me that they probably have a good reason. . .

fcspikeit
02-21-2009, 06:22 PM
you're right, there's no guarantee that they won't still re-sign him-- they've already offered him a big contract, and i'm sure their FO will remain in close contact with his agent. . . however, the fact that they're even willing to let him get to the open market is somewhat telling IMO. . . they've had every opportunity to lock him up and they haven't been willing to pay what he thinks he's worth. . . it doesn't mean they don't want to keep him, obviously they do, but they're being cautious and that suggests to me that they probably have a good reason. . .

Again, I heard they offered him a deal that would have made him the highest paid defensive player but he didn't take it because he wanted to see what the market had to offer.

rcsodak
02-21-2009, 06:28 PM
Albert Haynesworth can take his young offense into the promised land........

:confused:

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 06:37 PM
Im just saying your "guarentees" havent paid off for you yet... why keep trying???

and I dont want to fill multiple defensive holes through FA, if anything I would like to Overpay for an Elite defensive tackle, then build around him through the draft, what defenses are successful building there defense with a few FA pick ups?

It seems like you want to go the route this organization has been going with in recent years going out and getting 2nd tier players like Courtney Brown, Gerrard Warren, Ebenezer Ekuban, Boss Bailey, Niko, Dre Bly, Nate Webster, Marlon Mccree, Sam Adams, John Engleberger, Michael Myers etc....I think Its time for this FO to grows some Balls and go out and pay for an elite talent on the defensive line... something this team has lacked for years..... you can build around a dominant defensive lineman... unlike a CB (who Denver tried to do with Champ)


In most of those cases I would not have ranked them second tier guys..

No I'm looking for some good players that can come in and fill a few holes till the draftees can take their places.. someone that will not break the bank with ONE contract..

Start building this franchise like the good one have.. lots of home grown talent with a few Good to great FA's mixed in.. But I not ready to make the Great commitment till I have all of my class of 2006-08 resigned and maybe the class of 07 if there are any keepers in there..

Having Fat Albert would be great at 3 mil a year but we all know that is not going to happen.. for that matter coming here at all unless we out bid Jerry Jones.. As he wants to play for a winner and frankly we are not a winner this coming year... Even with Fat Albert..

rcsodak
02-21-2009, 06:39 PM
The thread is about what Haynesworth would mean to the Broncos.


Not sayin we will sign him.

I am saying that if a team really wanted to change their defense after watching what ours did last year, and it was seeking to win the superbowl year...........Haynesworths play has the most to offer hands down.

Whether we sign him or not isnt really the point. The point is that if you watched what happened to the Titans defense when he wasnt in there vs when he was, he was hugely missed.

Want to bring defense to Denver. No single player in the league can impact the defense more than Haynesworth.

Not Justin Tuck. Not Julius Peppers. Not Ray Lewis. Not Patrick Willis.

For everyone who talks about our corners getting burnt cause of no pass rush and wanting to generate pressure, no one brings more than Fat Albert. Haynesworth next to Dumerville, Moss, Thomas or Crowder makes them all exponentially more effective.

Its simply true.:coffee:

Having 3 Haynesworths wouldn't help make him more effective.

rcsodak
02-21-2009, 06:50 PM
Finally some sense comes into the conversation. Haynesworth reminds me of a guy who plays great during contract year, gets paid, then gets lazy and half-asses it the rest of the time. I just don't trust the guy.

Sounds like you just described Trevor *not worth the* Pryce.

Slick
02-21-2009, 06:52 PM
Sounds like you just described Trevor *not worth the* Pryce.

Would you have rather kept him, or were you happy watching Sam Adams and Dewayne Robertson?

Slick
02-21-2009, 06:56 PM
I'm a big "don't overpay for 1 person" guy, but if there was 1 guy I'd back away from that for...

I know it isn't an option, but I'd rather have your boy Henderson.

DenBronx
02-21-2009, 06:56 PM
basically we are trading robertson and his 16 mill for haynesworth and his 16 mill next year. i dont see why anyone would fuss over or not want that? last time i checked we were in pretty good shape to afford him.

rcsodak
02-21-2009, 07:01 PM
Would you have rather kept him, or were you happy watching Sam Adams and Dewayne Robertson?

Slick, I'm glad they got rid of him. And why would I have to be happy with them?

How many times does it have to be repeated about him? He even admitted that he didn't work hard enough for the team, after he got his big pay day from Shanny.

And when he got hurt, NOBODY knew how he'd do over the longhaul.

The only reason he's still playing is because of the players surrounding him at Balti. We all know that.

EMB6903
02-21-2009, 07:02 PM
you're right, there's no guarantee that they won't still re-sign him-- they've already offered him a big contract, and i'm sure their FO will remain in close contact with his agent. . . however, the fact that they're even willing to let him get to the open market is somewhat telling IMO. . . they've had every opportunity to lock him up and they haven't been willing to pay what he thinks he's worth. . . it doesn't mean they don't want to keep him, obviously they do, but they're being cautious and that suggests to me that they probably have a good reason. . .

they never wanted him to test the FA Market, he is doing so because hes smart, he wants to get the biggest contract he can get, he would have been tagged this year if he didnt live up to his incentives.... but trust me Tennessee is going to do everything they can to get him to re sign.

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 07:09 PM
Would you have rather kept him, or were you happy watching Sam Adams and Dewayne Robertson?

neither because for the most part price was not remotely self motivating.. his head was into recording if Rod or mikey did not all him out he showed up nothing special and for 9 mil a year it should be special..

Would have loved to have DR before his knees went..

Slick
02-21-2009, 07:17 PM
Slick, I'm glad they got rid of him. And why would I have to be happy with them?

How many times does it have to be repeated about him? He even admitted that he didn't work hard enough for the team, after he got his big pay day from Shanny.

And when he got hurt, NOBODY knew how he'd do over the longhaul.

The only reason he's still playing is because of the players surrounding him at Balti. We all know that.

He is/was producing in baltimore, but I can't argue your reasoning. You're probably right. I'm just a softy for trevor I guess.




As far as Albert goes, I'd love to have him, and maybe the cost isn't as big an issue as some of us think it is. I guess you weigh his price tag for what we could potentially get in the draft, and who else we need to try and lock up this off season that is already on the current roster.

While he demands a lot of money, we all know he can play at the highest of levels when healthy, and when he wants to. I'd love to see us have a monster in the middle, but I'm torn on the idea. He's only 27, and adding a player of his caliber would improve this defense tremendously.

As a fan, I guess I wouldn't complain if we threw our hat in the mix. I think I'd rather see us tie the money up in the D-line rather than the secondary. We all saw how that worked out.

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 07:28 PM
He is/was producing in baltimore, but I can't argue your reasoning. You're probably right. I'm just a softy for trevor I guess.




As far as Albert goes, I'd love to have him, and maybe the cost isn't as big an issue as some of us think it is. I guess you weigh his price tag for what we could potentially get in the draft, and who else we need to try and lock up this off season that is already on the current roster.

While he demands a lot of money, we all know he can play at the highest of levels when healthy, and when he wants to. I'd love to see us have a monster in the middle, but I'm torn on the idea. He's only 27, and adding a player of his caliber would improve this defense tremendously.

As a fan, I guess I wouldn't complain if we threw our hat in the mix. I think I'd rather see us tie the money up in the D-line rather than the secondary. We all saw how that worked out.

Yes price is/was producing in BAL but he also has a great defense around him to help his stats.. HE is motivated there cause they will not accept the same level o play he was allowed to do here at 3-4 times the cost..

They have been well coached for years.. well You know how I feel about ours..

Having the big guy would be great but not at taking a huge part of the salary cap this year.. that would inhibit getting other FA's in here to help fill all of the holes and you know how many that is.. Those players plus draft choices could mean reasonable season.. With the brutal upcoming schedule I'm willing to deal with an improved D while they get experience behind them for the 2010-12 Superbowl challenges..

Just think if he goes down with a knee 40+ million is flushed down the toilet it would take 4-5 second tier guys for that to happen..

Minimizing the loss. IMO is the way to go.. canb he make teh diffenrece that 4-6 otehr guys might make think about that one..

Any one guy worth paying 2.5 million a sack to..

Not in my lifetime..

broncosinindy
02-21-2009, 09:04 PM
A nose tackle in a 3-4 defense can't be an I or me kind of guy and for that matter neither can a 3-4 defensive end. They really need to be unselfish.

While that is true. on third downs or passing situations you want the Guys to collaspe the pocket at the very least if they can crush it and get the sack that much better. but you are right they have to be selfless. i would love to see him play either NT or LDE in the 3-4

TXBRONC
02-21-2009, 10:02 PM
Where are you getting that TX? Last I heard he didn't want to sign with them until he seen what the market would offer him.

Don't you think the Titans would have franchised him if they cold have? That would have been well over 10 Mill.. Something like 40% more then last year.

I thought I read that in one of Cugel's posts somewhere. :confused:

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 11:03 PM
I thought I read that in one of Cugel's posts somewhere. :confused:


No need to be confused at all it has been around alot in various blogs news reports and Either Cugel or G~man also commented on it..

Got to remember the spike is in an area that is still served by the pony express. So this is his only source of decent Bronco news..
They made him a great offer but he wants to see what eh market will bear.. The only reason they could not franchise was a clause in his contract saying if he made the pro bowl this year he would become an UFA.. they could not tag him..

WARHORSE
02-21-2009, 11:28 PM
Your absolutely correct he is the ONE impact player that can with a couple of draftees rotating in next to him can make the biggest impact..

But the whole question is is he worth it since he wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL.. To me he is not ..

I'll get the best NT on the draft available and hope he turns int the next Big Albert..

What do you get for a draft bust? Definitely not a superbowl.


Save the huge money we would have to spend on him and apply it to a bunch of second tier Fa's to fill the MASSIVE hole created over the past decade of failed DAFT choices..


Man, who cares about saving money. Not me. As I said earlier, winning the superbowl, or building a superbowl winning franchise that wins maybe two or three will send the franchise into the stratoshpere of profit.

For all the contracts we blew, we arent a franchise that has a bigtime contract in the league as compared to other franchises that draft at the top of the draft, or pursue big time FAs.

We havent given a mega deal to anyone. Champ has the biggest contract to date, and his guaranteed money was simply 18 mil.

Every team in the league has those same failed DAFT choices JRWIZ, wake up. Theres no guarantees and Ive yet to hear you mention the variables involved with drafting that no one has control over. We have killers on our team due to the same drafting, your slant on this is starting to make you look asian.

The great "Goodman" draft picks we have now according to you......and what do they get for all their awesome skill? CANNED.

It was time for a change according to Bowlen.


Haynesworth fills the needs like no one else we can get to date, period.

All the talking in the world about saving money wont change that fact.



Screw saving money.


We have professionals to deal with the numbers.

Lets fill the holes and roll with it.


We have the ability to sign a number of FAs, and that includes Haynesworth should they desire to do so.



How aggressive will we be in FAgency?

McDaniels said it himself: 'As aggressive as we need to be'.


That doesnt sound like a team strapped for cash or cap space.

The moves theyre making in cutting players and restructuring DJ for the sake of cap space simply doesnt speak to us about saving money. It speaks to us of creating more cap space.

Now why would we be doing that?

WARHORSE
02-21-2009, 11:30 PM
Haynesworth is making WAY more than Wilfork & Ngata or Rogers already -- and he wants a big raise!



Haloti Ngata is still on his rookie contract so it's REALLY not a fair comparison. But, he's making peanuts compared with Haynesworth:


His cap figure for 2009 is less than $3 million! That's lunch money for what Haynesworth wants. :coffee:

The Steelers NT Casey Hampton is better paid:


Still, Hampton's 2009 cap-hit of $4.8 million is still very LOW for elite DL and nothing like what he'd make as a FA.

The Chargers Jamal Williams is another elite NT:


Cap hit of almost $4 million again is quite LOW for an elite NT!

NOW compare Haynesworth's salary demands:





So, Haynesworth is looking for MORE THAN $32 million in GUARANTEED contracts. He wants closer to $40 million guaranteed and close to an $80 million contract (Jared Allen's contract was for $73.2 and he wasn't even a FA!)

Albert's stats aren't consistent either. 2008 was a MUCH better year than previous years. You could argue that in his 7th year he's breaking out. He's still a relatively young 27 years old (he turns 28 this June) so he should have about 5 good years left. But a LOT is uncertain.



Albert put on a big contract drive in 2008 and now it's payday. You have to wonder whether he'd be motivated to continue his play from 2008 or whether he'd take plays or even games off with a guaranteed $40 million to count on.

Overall, this is NOT a good investment. :coffee:

He's a great player, and a real difference maker, but he wants VASTLY more money than any NT in the NFL, on the range of $13 million a year for the next 6 years, with about 1/2 of it guaranteed regardless of whether he decides to play hard or not.

Then there are the reports that he wants to stay in the Southeast, with the Bucs as his preferred location. Also that he wants to go to a "winner" -- and clearly the Broncos are in rebuilding mold, so they don't qualify on that count.

Albert wants the Cowboys to break the bank to hire him. Jerry Jones has just a big enough ego to want to do it too.

All in all, I think people need to get this idea out of their heads. Just because the Broncos have some money to spend in finding FAs, doesn't mean they want to spend it all on Albert Haynesworth.


So, would you pay the money to Jared Allen?

The mans a killer.:coffee:

WARHORSE
02-21-2009, 11:31 PM
Having 3 Haynesworths wouldn't help make him more effective.


Um...........not true. Study some football.:D J/K

TXBRONC
02-21-2009, 11:45 PM
Man, who cares about saving money. Not me. As I said earlier, winning the superbowl, or building a superbowl winning franchise that wins maybe two or three will send the franchise into the stratoshpere of profit.

For all the contracts we blew, we arent a franchise that has a bigtime contract in the league as compared to other franchises that draft at the top of the draft, or pursue big time FAs.

We havent given a mega deal to anyone. Champ has the biggest contract to date, and his guaranteed money was simply 18 mil.

Every team in the league has those same failed DAFT choices JRWIZ, wake up. Theres no guarantees and Ive yet to hear you mention the variables involved with drafting that no one has control over. We have killers on our team due to the same drafting, your slant on this is starting to make you look asian.

The great "Goodman" draft picks we have now according to you......and what do they get for all their awesome skill? CANNED.

It was time for a change according to Bowlen.


Haynesworth fills the needs like no one else we can get to date, period.

All the talking in the world about saving money wont change that fact.



Screw saving money.


We have professionals to deal with the numbers.

Lets fill the holes and roll with it.


We have the ability to sign a number of FAs, and that includes Haynesworth should they desire to do so.



How aggressive will we be in FAgency?

McDaniels said it himself: 'As aggressive as we need to be'.


That doesnt sound like a team strapped for cash or cap space.

The moves theyre making in cutting players and restructuring DJ for the sake of cap space simply doesnt speak to us about saving money. It speaks to us of creating more cap space.

Now why would we be doing that?

I think there was an article in the RMN that said something about Denver not desiring to sign Haynesworth. Here's the article.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/19/broncos-unlikely-devote-salary-cap-space-hayneswor/

Broncos unlikely to devote salary cap space to Haynesworth
By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published February 19, 2009 at 7 p.m.

INDIANAPOLIS — In the wake of the Broncos' recent roster cuts that included several high-priced veterans, speculation already has begun in some broadcast reports the team could have enough salary-cap room to make a bid for free-agent defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth.

But with the amount of money the Broncos will pay to coaches who don't work for the team in the upcoming season sapping a big slice of the cash reservoir and Xanders' belief one player cannot command too much cap money - he said Monday that "It's a team game and one person can't take a huge burden in the existing framework of the salary cap" - the Broncos would need a significant policy shift to get involved in the pursuit of Haynesworth.

Haynesworth has said he wants to be the league's highest- paid defensive player.

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 11:49 PM
Man, who cares about saving money. Not me. As I said earlier, winning the superbowl, or building a superbowl winning franchise that wins maybe two or three will send the franchise into the stratoshpere of profit.

For all the contracts we blew, we arent a franchise that has a bigtime contract in the league as compared to other franchises that draft at the top of the draft, or pursue big time FAs.

We havent given a mega deal to anyone. Champ has the biggest contract to date, and his guaranteed money was simply 18 mil.

Every team in the league has those same failed DAFT choices JRWIZ, wake up. Theres no guarantees and Ive yet to hear you mention the variables involved with drafting that no one has control over. We have killers on our team due to the same drafting, your slant on this is starting to make you look asian.

The great "Goodman" draft picks we have now according to you......and what do they get for all their awesome skill? CANNED.

It was time for a change according to Bowlen.


Haynesworth fills the needs like no one else we can get to date, period.

All the talking in the world about saving money wont change that fact.



Screw saving money.


We have professionals to deal with the numbers.

Lets fill the holes and roll with it.


We have the ability to sign a number of FAs, and that includes Haynesworth should they desire to do so.



How aggressive will we be in FAgency?

McDaniels said it himself: 'As aggressive as we need to be'.


That doesnt sound like a team strapped for cash or cap space.

The moves theyre making in cutting players and restructuring DJ for the sake of cap space simply doesnt speak to us about saving money. It speaks to us of creating more cap space.

Now why would we be doing that?

lets do this again.. Just because we have the space does not meant we have to waste it..

I believe them when they say they will be 'As aggressive as we need to be' but you did not hear in there we are going to blast every dime out the door.

All it means is we 'As aggressive as we need to be' their definition of need may be totally different than MINE or YOUR's..

Officially:
I have seen nothing in print or heard anything that has said we are going after cap killers..

If anything I have heard they are going to stay away from them:

Build via the draft
No one player is worth that much cap space..
We are looking for many second tier FA's to fill the holes left..
Reports there is a cash flow issues with Many teams including the Broncos..**


Now do I hope they can sign a couple absolutely But I think the austerity program with FO cuts last year continues on till well forever..

As did taking maybe even third tier FA's last year..

As far as Goodman's having great drafts one one can prove to me that they were the only part of the equation that found a bunch of real players in 2006 and 08..

They certainly seem to be in the mix but it also could be mikey not falling in love with a couple scouted players or Pat saying no listen to your scouts and position coaches.. maybe some day we will get the absolute proof of who did what and when.. Till then Goodman's scouted them position coaches graded them and mikey the HC choose them..

BTW I do think that Bates had a HUGE hand in picking the DL folks in 07 as NO ONE will ever convince me that mikey would have taken 3 of 4 picks on the DLINE in one year, hell maybe even a decade..:laugh::laugh: Some one above mikey helped to make those decisions with Bates.. or gave him carte blanc when he was hired he would get the picks he wanted..

**means there maybe cap room but no extra cash for signing bonuses..

EMB6903
02-21-2009, 11:50 PM
That article is going off of speculation because Xanders said "It's a team game and one person can't take a huge burden in the existing framework of the salary cap" Never was he asked a question about Haynesworth


Im not gonna take much from what a General Manager says during a press conference though, most always are smoke screens

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 11:52 PM
I think there was an article in the RMN that said something about Denver not desiring to sign Haynesworth. Here's the article.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/19/broncos-unlikely-devote-salary-cap-space-hayneswor/

Broncos unlikely to devote salary cap space to Haynesworth
By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published February 19, 2009 at 7 p.m.

INDIANAPOLIS — In the wake of the Broncos' recent roster cuts that included several high-priced veterans, speculation already has begun in some broadcast reports the team could have enough salary-cap room to make a bid for free-agent defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth.

But with the amount of money the Broncos will pay to coaches who don't work for the team in the upcoming season sapping a big slice of the cash reservoir and Xanders' belief one player cannot command too much cap money - he said Monday that "It's a team game and one person can't take a huge burden in the existing framework of the salary cap" - the Broncos would need a significant policy shift to get involved in the pursuit of Haynesworth.

Haynesworth has said he wants to be the league's highest- paid defensive player.


thank you :salute:

I wished I knew you were going to post that it would have saved this tired old guy 15 minutes of typing my response..

horsepig
02-22-2009, 12:07 AM
Screw Haynesworth, only players ever worth that much were Elway & TD. We don't just need to plug up the middle here folks. We need DE's, any number of LB's and safeties til the cows come home!

P.S.: of course we DO need some beef in the middle too. I realize that.

Poet
02-22-2009, 12:08 AM
Screw Haynesworth, only players ever worth that much were Elway & TD. We don't just need to plug up the middle here folks. We need DE's, any number of LB's and safeties til the cows come home!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

fcspikeit
02-22-2009, 12:19 AM
No need to be confused at all it has been around alot in various blogs news reports and Either Cugel or G~man also commented on it..

Got to remember the spike is in an area that is still served by the pony express. So this is his only source of decent Bronco news..
They made him a great offer but he wants to see what eh market will bear.. The only reason they could not franchise was a clause in his contract saying if he made the pro bowl this year he would become an UFA.. they could not tag him..

Funny :D

You might want to go back and read what me and TX were talking about, I was the one saying they offered him a big contract and he refused because he wanted to test the market..

They couldn't franchise him or they would have even at the sake of 10 MILL +. My point was, they wanted him back!

Lonestar
02-22-2009, 12:22 AM
Funny :D

You might want to go back and read what me and TX were talking about, I was the one saying they offered him a big contract and he refused because he wanted to test the market..

They couldn't franchise him or they would have even at the sake of 10 MILL +. My point was, they wanted him back!

I was Mc Kiding with you..**






















**Joshing

fcspikeit
02-22-2009, 12:35 AM
I was Mc Kiding with you..**






















**Joshing

Really? I thought you were serious about the pony express comment.. :laugh:

After that I thought you were being serious. Beings you said what I had been saying all along, I thought maybe your old tired eyes had misread what I had been saying.. :coffee:




:lol: :lol:


That reminded my of when a buddy of mine came to visit from Australia. He had never been to the U.S before, we were out hunting and driving down a trail in the middle of the desert. He told me, he though all the roads in Idaho would be like the trail we were on.. LOL. I thought that was pretty funny.. We took a couple photos of the road so he could show his buddies back home what the freeways in Idaho were like.. :tsk:

Lonestar
02-22-2009, 12:53 AM
Really? I thought you were serious about the pony express comment.. :laugh:

After that I thought you were being serious. Beings you said what I had been saying all along, I thought maybe your old tired eyes had misread what I had been saying.. :coffee:




:lol: :lol:


That reminded my of when a buddy of mine came to visit from Australia. He had never been to the U.S before, we were out hunting and driving down a trail in the middle of the desert. He told me, he though all the roads in Idaho would be like the trail we were on.. LOL. I thought that was pretty funny.. We took a couple photos of the road so he could show his buddies back home what the freeways in Idaho were like.. :tsk:




I was kidding about the P/E thingy.. BTW we have several Butterfield Trail P/E stops in town one by the airport of all places.. it comes in from the Fort Stockton and FT Davis

"San Antonio section of the Butterfield Company’s Overland Stagecoach Line road often called "The Overland Trail" that runs right through our town. Matter-of-fact . . . the only unpaved portion of the original trail from San Antonio to El Paso still in everyday use."

But overall I was agreeing with what Y'all were saying.. It is an old man thing..

Superchop 7
02-22-2009, 03:27 AM
Get this idea out of your head..........not happenin.

WARHORSE
02-22-2009, 05:08 AM
thank you :salute:

I wished I knew you were going to post that it would have saved this tired old guy 15 minutes of typing my response..


Pure speculation on Legwolds part.

Nothing of fact.

Let me help you out:



INDIANAPOLIS — In the wake of the Broncos' recent roster cuts that included several high-priced veterans, speculation already has begun in some broadcast reports the team could have enough salary-cap room to make a bid for free-agent defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth.

Why the speculation? Because it means we have the ability.


But with the amount of money the Broncos will pay to coaches who don't work for the team in the upcoming season sapping a big slice of the cash reservoir and Xanders' belief one player cannot command too much cap money - he said Monday that "It's a team game and one person can't take a huge burden in the existing framework of the salary cap" - the Broncos would need a significant policy shift to get involved in the pursuit of Haynesworth.

Hes trying to put two and two together, in other words, hes SPECULATING himself, and going off of what he believes (how could the broncos have the money when we have to pay coaches?) and a statement by Xanders hes trying to highlight as proof as of team philosophy, which means absolutely nothing. The man was talking about washed up Robertson. No player is worth 16 million? Then whyd we pay Champ 18+? Saying the Broncos wont put 20 or 30 mil on a player is hogwash if they WANT to. Teams do it all the time. Dont think the Broncos are as financially fit as most of the NFL franchises? Wake up.
Haynesworth has said he wants to be the league's highest- paid defensive player.

And rightly so. He WILL be up there with Asumugha.

Lonestar
02-22-2009, 05:19 AM
Pure speculation on Legwolds part.

Nothing of fact.

Let me help you out:



INDIANAPOLIS — In the wake of the Broncos' recent roster cuts that included several high-priced veterans, speculation already has begun in some broadcast reports the team could have enough salary-cap room to make a bid for free-agent defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth.

Why the speculation? Because it means we have the ability.


But with the amount of money the Broncos will pay to coaches who don't work for the team in the upcoming season sapping a big slice of the cash reservoir and Xanders' belief one player cannot command too much cap money - he said Monday that "It's a team game and one person can't take a huge burden in the existing framework of the salary cap" - the Broncos would need a significant policy shift to get involved in the pursuit of Haynesworth.

Hes trying to put two and two together, in other words, hes SPECULATING himself, and going off of what he believes (how could the broncos have the money when we have to pay coaches?) and a statement by Xanders hes trying to highlight as proof as of team philosophy, which means absolutely nothing. The man was talking about washed up Robertson. No player is worth 16 million? Then whyd we pay Champ 18+? Saying the Broncos wont put 20 or 30 mil on a player is hogwash if they WANT to. Teams do it all the time. Dont think the Broncos are as financially fit as most of the NFL franchises? Wake up.
Haynesworth has said he wants to be the league's highest- paid defensive player.

And rightly so. He WILL be up there with Asumugha.


I guess War we will have to agree to disagree.. I'll believe it when I see them pay Haynesworth 80 mil.. Till then I will continue to believe we will have a bunch of draftees coming up behind second tier types pushing them for their jobs..

That is what makes a team better.. not dumping all of their hopes and money into one big guy..

time wil tell, we have a week to find out if your correct and 2 weeks to see if I'm correct..

WARHORSE
02-22-2009, 05:26 AM
lets do this again.. Just because we have the space does not meant we have to waste it..

Yeah. It also doesnt mean we wont spend it on Haynesworth. Not saying we ARE, but I AM saying that if they feel hes worth it, we wont have any problems.



I believe them when they say they will be 'As aggressive as we need to be' but you did not hear in there we are going to blast every dime out the door.

I didnt say that either. We have our own players to resign as well.

All it means is we 'As aggressive as we need to be' their definition of need may be totally different than MINE or YOUR's..

Thats true, I didnt say anything to the contrary. Go back and read the original post. All I said was, no other player offers more, and it HAS to be a consideration of Bowlens. Whether he decided one way or the other, we dont know. But theres nothing saying we WONT be players in the Haynesworth sweepstakes.


Officially:
I have seen nothing in print or heard anything that has said we are going after cap killers..

If anything I have heard they are going to stay away from them:



Build via the draft correction, he said both the draft and free agency, and that every team tries to build their core through the draft. That is NOT a statement of not being players in FAgency, and in fact they have stated they will be as AGGRESSIVE AS THEY NEED TO BE.
No one player is worth that much cap space..
Um, not true and totally taken out of context. They were referring to Robertson, and in fact, he may have been talking about spreading the cap hits along the length of the contract, which allows no single player to take up too much on any given year..........something that happens all the time.
We are looking for many second tier FA's to fill the holes left..
You wrote that.
Reports there is a cash flow issues with Many teams including the Broncos..** Aggressive as we need to be does not mean cash flow problems, and once again, you guys have no idea what Bowlen has at his disposal. Its ALOT.


Now do I hope they can sign a couple absolutely But I think the austerity program with FO cuts last year continues on till well forever..

As did taking maybe even third tier FA's last year..

As far as Goodman's having great drafts one one can prove to me that they were the only part of the equation that found a bunch of real players in 2006 and 08..

Talk about a slanted view. You pick and choose the accolades and failures according to your personal view. Not objective.

They certainly seem to be in the mix but it also could be mikey not falling in love with a couple scouted players or Pat saying no listen to your scouts and position coaches.. maybe some day we will get the absolute proof of who did what and when.. Till then Goodman's scouted them position coaches graded them and mikey the HC choose them..

In other words you, nor I know what the heck happened.

BTW I do think that Bates had a HUGE hand in picking the DL folks in 07 as NO ONE will ever convince me that mikey would have taken 3 of 4 picks on the DLINE in one year, hell maybe even a decade..:laugh::laugh: Some one above mikey helped to make those decisions with Bates.. or gave him carte blanc when he was hired he would get the picks he wanted..

I would agree there.

**means there maybe cap room but no extra cash for signing bonuses..
Once again, teams dont need to pay the whole signing bonus at once, they spread the payments in yearly installments. That is the norm, not the exception.



Once again, I will reiterate that this thread was not saying we will sign Haynesworth.............hes just the biggest baddest beast out there, and some team is gonna pay him money, and I certainly hope it aint the Pats or the Colts.


The Broncos need him more than those teams. Those teams would become even more dominant with a player like that.

Northman
02-22-2009, 09:38 AM
Once again, I will reiterate that this thread was not saying we will sign Haynesworth.............hes just the biggest baddest beast out there, and some team is gonna pay him money, and I certainly hope it aint the Pats or the Colts.


The Broncos need him more than those teams. Those teams would become even more dominant with a player like that.


Patriots arent the kind of team to overpay for any player. They've proven that the last few years and have been just fine. T

TXBRONC
02-22-2009, 09:43 AM
Patriots arent the kind of team to overpay for any player. They've proven that the last few years and have been just fine. T

Haynesworth could be great addition but I don't think we necessarily need him.

Northman
02-22-2009, 09:48 AM
Haynesworth could be great addition but I don't think we necessarily need him.

Nah, dont get me wrong. He is a great talent but it would be just kind of weird for us to put all our eggs into one basket when the MO in NE was too find guys who just wanted to win and wouldnt ask for the farm in return. I dont blame Haynesworth for going out there and getting his due but for a team like ours that needs a lot of help on that side of the ball i just dont want to hogtie us down with one player. Furthermore, Denver is still a ways away from being a true contender and im not sure Albert wants to wait in that regard especially when there is nothing else in place to assist him on the defensive side of the ball. Without a impact DE on the line to assist him he would get double teamed often so im not sure he will look at us as a great opportunity right now anyway.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-22-2009, 11:46 AM
We NEED a beast of a NT. We don't specifically need Albert Haynesworth. Again, I'd like us to follow the philosophy of Pitt and NE, but if we're gonna BUY 1 player, I'd pick AH.

ktrain
02-22-2009, 12:23 PM
Of course theres lots of pros and cons of bringing in a free agent like Albert Haynesworth. Theres tons of potential for risk, and theres tons of potential for reward..........


This is what is going on in the mind of Pat Bowlen:



Albert Haynesworth.:shocked:


Albert Haynesworth.:shocked:


Albert Haynesworth.:shocked:

No doubt about his freakish like physical ability and ability to fundamentally change the defense..... WHEN HE WANTS TO

The guy is a very low character guy who intentionally stepped on a guy's facemask, is injured quite a bit in non contract years, and has been rumored to be a locker room cancer.

Just say no the the over-priced, under-charactered, ass clown from Tennessee

Northman
02-22-2009, 12:25 PM
No doubt about his freakish like physical ability and ability to fundamentally change the defense..... WHEN HE WANTS TO

The guy is a very low character guy who intentionally stepped on a guy's facemask, is injured quite a bit in non contract years, and has been rumored to be a locker room cancer.

Just say no the the over-priced, under-charactered, ass clown from Tennessee


I think people do forget about his stomping on that Dallas player. Whether or not character will be an issue with McD time will only tell.

rcsodak
02-22-2009, 12:58 PM
I guess War we will have to agree to disagree.. I'll believe it when I see them pay Haynesworth 80 mil.. Till then I will continue to believe we will have a bunch of draftees coming up behind second tier types pushing them for their jobs..

That is what makes a team better.. not dumping all of their hopes and money into one big guy..

time wil tell, we have a week to find out if your correct and 2 weeks to see if I'm correct..

I agree, jr.

And I also think that Champ is on the trading block, and we haven't been told. Why would he want to stick around on a rebuilding team? Especially at his age?

They said they'd look at ADDING draft picks....so who else would garner them, other than Champ?

rcsodak
02-22-2009, 01:16 PM
Once again, I will reiterate that this thread was not saying we will sign Haynesworth.............hes just the biggest baddest beast out there, and some team is gonna pay him money, and I certainly hope it aint the Pats or the Colts.


The Broncos need him more than those teams. Those teams would become even more dominant with a player like that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a player receives his signing bonus WHEN HE SIGNS, I believe. The only place it is spread out, is in the 'books'.

I agree with jr. They've made enough mention of not breaking the bank....needing ALOT of players.....that one would think they might be players in FA but not likely to bring in an entire line from another team.

I'm sure they'll look at the draft, see what areas are strong and weak. The weak areas will be addressed through FA first, then supplemented by draft picks that they feel could grow/improve.

And vise versa with the strong draft areas.

Here's how I saw the FA workings of the patriots.
NE brought in players that others didn't want, for one reason or another. ie Harrison...Seau...Moss - for cheap! They would pick up the "elite trash" whereas the raiders would just pick up the trash.

I'm sure Bowlen doesn't want Mcd to field an uncompetitive team in his first year....that would only incite those that thought firing Shanny was stupid.
But he's also not a US-bailedout-Bank, so I also don't see him spending at the top end of the cap.

Remember....NEXT year, unless something happens this year, will be an UNCAPPED YEAR! HE who has the biggest bankrolls, wins!!!

EMB6903
02-22-2009, 02:34 PM
No doubt about his freakish like physical ability and ability to fundamentally change the defense..... WHEN HE WANTS TO

The guy is a very low character guy who intentionally stepped on a guy's facemask, is injured quite a bit in non contract years, and has been rumored to be a locker room cancer.

Just say no the the over-priced, under-charactered, ass clown from Tennessee

what is this BS about Haynesworth being an underachiever him only coming to play "When he wants to" nonsense..... are you guys making this stuff up to help your case?

Haynesworth is as motivated as any defensive tackle in the league and hasnt taken a play off while he was on the field the last 3 years.... ::::::SHAKING HEAD:::::::

and give me a dirty player I dont care.... look at Wilfork, Jamaal Williams, Hampton, Ngata.... All nasty players, to be successful playing that position I think you have to have a mean streak to you.

Lonestar
02-22-2009, 02:35 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a player receives his signing bonus WHEN HE SIGNS, I believe. The only place it is spread out, is in the 'books'.

I agree with jr. They've made enough mention of not breaking the bank....needing ALOT of players.....that one would think they might be players in FA but not likely to bring in an entire line from another team.

I'm sure they'll look at the draft, see what areas are strong and weak. The weak areas will be addressed through FA first, then supplemented by draft picks that they feel could grow/improve.

And vise versa with the strong draft areas.

Here's how I saw the FA workings of the patriots.
NE brought in players that others didn't want, for one reason or another. ie Harrison...Seau...Moss - for cheap! They would pick up the "elite trash" whereas the raiders would just pick up the trash.I'm sure Bowlen doesn't want Mcd to field an uncompetitive team in his first year....that would only incite those that thought firing Shanny was stupid.
But he's also not a US-bailedout-Bank, so I also don't see him spending at the top end of the cap.

Remember....NEXT year, unless something happens this year, will be an UNCAPPED YEAR! HE who has the biggest bankrolls, wins!!!

Good post let me add

What I had forgot to address was this aspect..

They would take those player pay them well but not over pay them and make them into TEAM players not the me first type that they could be time to time or in moss's case WAS with their old teams.. and while they are their starting be grooming their replacements they got in the draft..

When someone in NE gets a huge head after being drafted by them and wants more than they want to give they trade, release or let them go as FA no hard feelings because they had someone to replace them already on the squad..

How many folks wrote them off when they allowed Bledso to go, same with Ty Law and one other CB that got to big for their britches.. They also allowed another DT to go way back.. IIRC they were not in most cases TEAM players..

I think Mc Kid grew up in that system environment where NO ONE person other than perhaps Brady before last year was not replaceable.. a team game..

That is what makes me think we will get character guys that are not priced on the moon..

Lonestar
02-22-2009, 03:01 PM
Once again, I will reiterate that this thread was not saying we will sign Haynesworth.............hes just the biggest baddest beast out there, and some team is gonna pay him money, and I certainly hope it aint the Pats or the Colts.


The Broncos need him more than those teams. Those teams would become even more dominant with a player like that.


on this we totally agree he is a beast when he is motivated.. I just think we can't have a cake and eat it also..

Only so many dollars in the bank and not enough t spread around for the rest of the D we need.. considering the fired coaches salaries , the up coming contracts for Marshall, Jay, Kuper, next year Clady and royale in a few years..
Only so many shekels in the bank and I do not see us shooting all or a huge part of of the wad on ONE player..

the guy simply is not worth the $20+ mil he is going get after you factor in his bonuses .. can you justify 2 million per sack? I can't!!!!!!

dogfish
02-22-2009, 03:23 PM
Once again, I will reiterate that this thread was not saying we will sign Haynesworth.............hes just the biggest baddest beast out there, and some team is gonna pay him money, and I certainly hope it aint the Pats or the Colts.


The Broncos need him more than those teams. Those teams would become even more dominant with a player like that.

hang in there big guy-- another couple weeks and this'll all be over, another team will have signed him and we can put this behind us and talk about something else. . . .

Lonestar
02-22-2009, 03:32 PM
hang in there big guy-- another couple weeks and this'll all be over, another team will have signed him and we can put this behind us and talk about something else. . . .

I think he will be gone day one maybe two..after FA starts.. he already knows what he has on the able in TEN..

If one of his teams he wants to go to offers more he is there.. maybe another 7 days and all this crap about him in DEN will be done.. finito, adiós, Auf Wiedersehen, arrivederci, au revoir, adeus..

Poet
02-22-2009, 04:14 PM
hang in there big guy-- another couple weeks and this'll all be over, another team will have signed him and we can put this behind us and talk about something else. . . .

You can talk about the Bart Scott sweepstakes! :eek::salute:

dogfish
02-22-2009, 07:54 PM
TITANS INCREASE OFFER TO HAYNESWORTH
Posted by Aaron Wilson on February 22, 2009, 10:43 a.m.

The Tennessee Titans have upped their contract offer to All-Pro defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth after meeting with his agent Saturday at the NFL scouting combine, according to Terry McCormick of the Nashville City Paper.

The Titans’ initial offer to Haynesworth has been reported by the Tennessean as being for four years and $36 million with roughly $20 million to $25 milion in guaranteed money. However, he’s reportedly seeking $35 million in guaranteed money.

According to the article, it’s unknown how much the Titans have done to bridge the gap. And it remains unclear if the Titans wil be inclined to match other teams’ hefty offers if Haynesworth makes it to free agency.

Haynesworth has already indicated that he intends to test free agency and listen to what other teams have to say and how big a check they’re willing to write. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are expected to emerge as a player in the Haynesworth sweepstakes.

TXBRONC
02-22-2009, 07:59 PM
All I can say is that Ron Brace and Terrance Taylor would a lot less money to bring in.

Slick
02-22-2009, 08:00 PM
I think people do forget about his stomping on that Dallas player. Whether or not character will be an issue with McD time will only tell.

He stepped on a Colorado Buffalo. I will never forget.

Lonestar
02-22-2009, 08:04 PM
TITANS INCREASE OFFER TO HAYNESWORTH
Posted by Aaron Wilson on February 22, 2009, 10:43 a.m.

The Tennessee Titans have upped their contract offer to All-Pro defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth after meeting with his agent Saturday at the NFL scouting combine, according to Terry McCormick of the Nashville City Paper.

The Titans’ initial offer to Haynesworth has been reported by the Tennessean as being for four years and $36 million with roughly $20 million to $25 milion in guaranteed money. However, he’s reportedly seeking $35 million in guaranteed money.

According to the article, it’s unknown how much the Titans have done to bridge the gap. And it remains unclear if the Titans wil be inclined to match other teams’ hefty offers if Haynesworth makes it to free agency.

Haynesworth has already indicated that he intends to test free agency and listen to what other teams have to say and how big a check they’re willing to write. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are expected to emerge as a player in the Haynesworth sweepstakes.


$8,750,000.00 a year guaranteed if he slips and falls in the showers day one.

7% of the cap is flushed for for consecutive years.. but in reality half$18,000,000.00 this year and the other $18,000,000.00 mill next year.. id we cut him after 01JUN..

Nope I'll pass.. IF he were the ONLY missing piece int eh puzzle perhaps I'd like him more..

rcsodak
02-22-2009, 08:56 PM
He doesn't make that line what it is...he just adds to it. If he came to Denver, it'd be no better than before....just like back when Pryce was a Bronco. Plus, I've yet to hear on whether or not he'd like to play in a "hybrid" scheme. Up til now, he's been all 4-3.

I'd rather they would go after Peppers, myself.

xzn
02-22-2009, 09:59 PM
:confused: Umm... Peppers got franchised... :shocked:
He doesn't make that line what it is...he just adds to it. If he came to Denver, it'd be no better than before....just like back when Pryce was a Bronco. Plus, I've yet to hear on whether or not he'd like to play in a "hybrid" scheme. Up til now, he's been all 4-3.

I'd rather they would go after Peppers, myself.

EMB6903
02-22-2009, 10:26 PM
He doesn't make that line what it is...he just adds to it. If he came to Denver, it'd be no better than before....just like back when Pryce was a Bronco. Plus, I've yet to hear on whether or not he'd like to play in a "hybrid" scheme. Up til now, he's been all 4-3.

I'd rather they would go after Peppers, myself.

Games that Haynesworth has missed over the last 3 years.

Titans 3-7

2006 Season
Titans vs Colts Loss= 320 yards given up 155 yards rushing
Titans vs Redskins Win= 305 yards given up 125 yards rushing
Titans vs Texans Win= 427 yards given up 150 yards rushing
Titans vs Jaguars Loss= 342 yards given up 170 yards rushing
Titans vs Ravens Loss= 421 yards given up 50 yards rushing

2007 Season
Titans vs Jaguars Loss= 262 yards given up 170 yards rushing
Titans vs Broncos Loss= 360 yards given up 166 yards rushing
Titans vs Bengals Loss= 426 yards given up 150 yards rushing

2008 Season
Titans vs Steelers Win= 375 yards given up 70 on the ground
Titans vs Colts Loss= 390 yards given up 120 on the ground


considering this defense has been top 10 in total defense the last 2 years (giving up under 300 yards a game) and top 6 the last 2 years in run defense (giving up well under 100 yards per game) I think hes more then just a piece.... this guy was the anchor to this defense the last 3 years and will be a dominant force where ever he ends up


All I can say is that Ron Brace and Terrance Taylor would a lot less money to bring in.


ya just like Denver wouldnt give up much if they went out and traded for Robertson instead of going after Shaun Rodgers and Kris Jenkins (both pro bowl players this year) but hey.... atleast we didnt give up much... Right?

broncohead
02-22-2009, 11:03 PM
He's a great individual player but not a team player. Right now he's looking after #1 and McD seems to want team oriented players. It seems he isn't focused on a championship more on the amount of money he'll be making. He probably doesn't care where he goes as long as he gets the money.

WARHORSE
02-23-2009, 02:09 AM
He's a great individual player but not a team player. Right now he's looking after #1 and McD seems to want team oriented players. It seems he isn't focused on a championship more on the amount of money he'll be making. He probably doesn't care where he goes as long as he gets the money.


Of course hes focused on the money. This is about his lively hood. Its a business, and no one can fault a guy for wanting to make as much money as possible.

Not a team player? I dont get that statement at all.


When he plays, the whole defense is better.

WARHORSE
02-23-2009, 02:12 AM
on this we totally agree he is a beast when he is motivated.. I just think we can't have a cake and eat it also..

Only so many dollars in the bank and not enough t spread around for the rest of the D we need.. considering the fired coaches salaries , the up coming contracts for Marshall, Jay, Kuper, next year Clady and royale in a few years..
Only so many shekels in the bank and I do not see us shooting all or a huge part of of the wad on ONE player..

the guy simply is not worth the $20+ mil he is going get after you factor in his bonuses .. can you justify 2 million per sack? I can't!!!!!!


If he brings us the superbowl, I dang sure can.

Whatever it takes, lets try to win. I dont care about saving cap space and all that crap. I want the Broncos to win the superbowl. The man is a beast in the middle, and when youre a franchise player in the NFL and you make it to free agency..........you get paid. Overpaid? Yes. But thats the way the cookie crumbles if you want the top players.

Poet
02-23-2009, 02:13 AM
If he brings us the superbowl, I dang sure can.

Whatever it takes, lets try to win. I dont care about saving cap space and all that crap. I want the Broncos to win the superbowl. The man is a beast in the middle, and when youre a franchise player in the NFL and you make it to free agency..........you get paid. Overpaid? Yes. But thats the way the cookie crumbles if you want the top players.

You can't be overpaid if a ton of teams start to offer you the same ridiculous salary IMO. :salute:

dogfish
02-23-2009, 02:19 AM
COULD TITANS TAKE A PASS ON HAYNESWORTH?
Posted by Aaron Wilson on February 22, 2009, 9:01 a.m.

It’s beginning to look like All-Pro defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth may have to leave Tennessee to get the blockbuster contract he’s seeking, according to Jim Wyatt of the Tennessean.

Per Wyatt, the buzz around the NFL scouting combine is that if the Titans don’t increase their four-year, $36 million offer to Haynesworth by the time free agency begins next week, another team will jump on Haynesworth and make him the highest-paid defensive player in the NFL.

Haynesworth wants to exceed the six-year contract of Minnesota Vikings defensive end Jared Allen, which averages out to $12.2 million annually and includes $32.7 milion in guaranteed money.

The Titans’ initial offer is comparable to what Chicago Bears defensive tackle Tommie Harris makes: $9.4 million a year.

“We are trying to get him under contract, but this is a business decision,” Titans coach Jeff Fisher said of Haynesworth. “This has to be a good deal for both sides.”

Should the Titans or any NFL team spend that much on a defensive tackle?

“I’d be a little reluctant to do it,” retired Dallas Cowboys executive Gil Brandt said. “He is a very talented guy, but the one thing you have to take into consideration is if you pay that kind of money to him, what it does is it strangles you cap-wise. Would you rather have one Haynesworth or three pretty good players?”

Conversely, new Detroit Lions coach Jim Schwartz, the Titans’ former defensive coordinator, said teams shouldn’t rule out paying Haynesworth top dollar.

“When you talk about high-priced players anywhere, you talk about people who can impact the game,” Schwartz said. “Maybe not just from a fan standpoint, but from a coaching and a scheme standpoint.

“You’ve got to have ability to impact the game. Hypothetically, if there’s a defensive tackle who dominates the game, there’s no reason he wouldn’t be the highest paid player.”

fcspikeit
02-23-2009, 02:45 AM
COULD TITANS TAKE A PASS ON HAYNESWORTH?
Posted by Aaron Wilson on February 22, 2009, 9:01 a.m.

It’s beginning to look like All-Pro defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth may have to leave Tennessee to get the blockbuster contract he’s seeking, according to Jim Wyatt of the Tennessean.

Per Wyatt, the buzz around the NFL scouting combine is that if the Titans don’t increase their four-year, $36 million offer to Haynesworth by the time free agency begins next week, another team will jump on Haynesworth and make him the highest-paid defensive player in the NFL.

Haynesworth wants to exceed the six-year contract of Minnesota Vikings defensive end Jared Allen, which averages out to $12.2 million annually and includes $32.7 milion in guaranteed money.

The Titans’ initial offer is comparable to what Chicago Bears defensive tackle Tommie Harris makes: $9.4 million a year.

“We are trying to get him under contract, but this is a business decision,” Titans coach Jeff Fisher said of Haynesworth. “This has to be a good deal for both sides.”

Should the Titans or any NFL team spend that much on a defensive tackle?

“I’d be a little reluctant to do it,” retired Dallas Cowboys executive Gil Brandt said. “He is a very talented guy, but the one thing you have to take into consideration is if you pay that kind of money to him, what it does is it strangles you cap-wise. Would you rather have one Haynesworth or three pretty good players?”

Conversely, new Detroit Lions coach Jim Schwartz, the Titans’ former defensive coordinator, said teams shouldn’t rule out paying Haynesworth top dollar.

“When you talk about high-priced players anywhere, you talk about people who can impact the game,” Schwartz said. “Maybe not just from a fan standpoint, but from a coaching and a scheme standpoint.

“You’ve got to have ability to impact the game. Hypothetically, if there’s a defensive tackle who dominates the game, there’s no reason he wouldn’t be the highest paid player.”


Is the 32.7 Million signing bonus Allen received figured into the 12.2 Mill a year? In other wards, is the 12.2 the cap hit for each year or is that the base contract with the spread out signing bonus tacked onto that?

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 09:44 AM
Games that Haynesworth has missed over the last 3 years.

Titans 3-7

2006 Season
Titans vs Colts Loss= 320 yards given up 155 yards rushing
Titans vs Redskins Win= 305 yards given up 125 yards rushing
Titans vs Texans Win= 427 yards given up 150 yards rushing
Titans vs Jaguars Loss= 342 yards given up 170 yards rushing
Titans vs Ravens Loss= 421 yards given up 50 yards rushing

2007 Season
Titans vs Jaguars Loss= 262 yards given up 170 yards rushing
Titans vs Broncos Loss= 360 yards given up 166 yards rushing
Titans vs Bengals Loss= 426 yards given up 150 yards rushing

2008 Season
Titans vs Steelers Win= 375 yards given up 70 on the ground
Titans vs Colts Loss= 390 yards given up 120 on the ground


considering this defense has been top 10 in total defense the last 2 years (giving up under 300 yards a game) and top 6 the last 2 years in run defense (giving up well under 100 yards per game) I think hes more then just a piece.... this guy was the anchor to this defense the last 3 years and will be a dominant force where ever he ends up




ya just like Denver wouldnt give up much if they went out and traded for Robertson instead of going after Shaun Rodgers and Kris Jenkins (both pro bowl players this year) but hey.... atleast we didnt give up much... Right?

I don't know what it cost the Jets to get Jenkins but Rogers wasn't nearly as expensive of a pick up as Haynesworth will be. Right?

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 09:46 AM
Is the 32.7 Million signing bonus Allen received figured into the 12.2 Mill a year? In other wards, is the 12.2 the cap hit for each year or is that the base contract with the spread out signing bonus tacked onto that?

I think the 12.2 million is the base contract.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-23-2009, 12:55 PM
Ron Brace and Terrance Taylor aren't All-Pro's, they're rookies. Yep, might be interesting to draft -- but to depend on them from Day 1. Nope.

Lonestar
02-23-2009, 01:10 PM
After a certain amount of money it is all ego.. Whatever that dollar value is..

I realize there are a lot of fans that do not see the long term picture and only want to win today.. But any great organization KNOWS that is not the way to go..

There has to be balance.. to over pay ONE spot on the team kills the ability to get other complimentary players.. when ONE player is getting 12-15% of this years salary cap that cuts down on other players that need to be signed .. That is not to mention the ego factor in the lockeroom..

IMHO nothing good can come out of having a salary hog in the locker room..

Everyone else is either expecting to much out of him or wondering when are they gonna hit the jack pot.

We have all seen the mediocre teams that WAS, DAL, OAK and ATL have had with their mega stars and ego maniac owners.. Who all over pay the talent hoping to buy a ring..

If Y'all are looking for that type of team. Please by all means look for their fan forums.. Join there and see what those expectations are each year..


The more consistent balanced teams like PIT, NE are consistent winners without blowing up the team every few years having to dump players because of salary cap issues.. That is the model I hope we will follow.. and thus get our share of Lombardi's

EMB6903
02-23-2009, 01:24 PM
I don't know what it cost the Jets to get Jenkins but Rogers wasn't nearly as expensive of a pick up as Haynesworth will be. Right?

ya Im just using that as an example, because last year when Jenkins, Rogers, corey williams and Stroud were on the block........ We made a play for Robertson because it didnt cost us nearly as much to get him.

Lonestar
02-23-2009, 01:31 PM
ya Im just using that as an example, because last year when Jenkins, Rogers, corey williams and Stroud were on the block........ We made a play for Robertson because it didnt cost us nearly as much to get him..

but we did so very late in the year compared to the rest of the action.. and then it was trade so to speak not a FA type acquisition.. although it did not cost us anything in trade as he did not play enough to have to give up a pick this year..

G_Money
02-23-2009, 01:52 PM
After a certain amount of money it is all ego.. Whatever that dollar value is..

I realize there are a lot of fans that do not see the long term picture and only want to win today.. But any great organization KNOWS that is not the way to go..

There has to be balance.. to over pay ONE spot on the team kills the ability to get other complimentary players.. when ONE player is getting 12-15% of this years salary cap that cuts down on other players that need to be signed .. That is not to mention the ego factor in the lockeroom..

IMHO nothing good can come out of having a salary hog in the locker room..

Everyone else is either expecting to much out of him or wondering when are they gonna hit the jack pot.

We have all seen the mediocre teams that WAS, DAL, OAK and ATL have had with their mega stars and ego maniac owners.. Who all over pay the talent hoping to buy a ring..

If Y'all are looking for that type of team. Please by all means look for their fan forums.. Join there and see what those expectations are each year..


The more consistent balanced teams like PIT, NE are consistent winners without blowing up the team every few years having to dump players because of salary cap issues.. That is the model I hope we will follow.. and thus get our share of Lombardi's

Except Pitt and NE are paying their QBs a ridiculous fortune, and Moss isn't cheap, and...

NE and Pitt have had coaching staffs in place for a long time. The DL in Pitt's scheme have all come up through that scheme. They're bred and drafted for that scheme. They're so good at it now because they've been perfecting it for the last 8 or whatever years as players in the system.

So we can either wait for our Dl draft picks to get 3-4 years under their belts in our system - assuming we have won enough that we still have the system in 4 years and aren't looking for new coaches - or we can add some high-priced defensive FAs to kickstart the process while we wait for our DL talent to ripen into starters worth having and not overpaying.

DL take time to break in to their own and become superstars - or even quality contributors. Starting the season with Ron Brace as our starting NT would be a bad idea. In a perfect world you get a good vet to start at NT for a few years and have Brace back em up while he becomes proficient at the position.

Then you let the vet go, and Brace should be ready to take over when he starts making decent change. You try to time it so you get him signed to an extension or a new contract before he starts dominating, then ride it out with him as long as you can - ie, how the Titans have done it with Haynesworth.

I dunno if Haynesworth would want to come to a place where all he does it eat double-teams...except all he does right now is eat double-teams, so really, what's the difference if it's the NT position or the 3?

I want to add a NT in the draft, but I don't want to have to start him. There are aging vets, backups, or a superstar available in FA. Take your pick of what you want there for the next couple years, but I'd feel far better about paying Haynesworth and Canty using the draft to fill the back 7 and the backup DL positions than trying to draft the DL and make them start.

We tried that plan in 07. It sorta didn't work.

And McDaniels doesn't have Shanahan's "unlimited" tenure to work it out in. He needs this to work now.

So you can bet on 36 year old Grady Jackson not turning into Sam Adams the second we add him, or you can throw a dumptruck full of money at Haynesworth. Either way, the bet is made to keep the coaching staff's and GM's jobs. It doesn't matter what you pay, it matters what the result is.

I don't need Haynesworth, but I'm definitely not writing him off as an option. Fixing the D is the only thing that's gonna keep McD and the new staff here. Haynesworth has the talent to do that at a position that's terribly hard to fill. Whatever the price tag, he's got to be in the conversation.

~G

eessydo
02-23-2009, 01:57 PM
That's right. Rocky Top bitches!!!!!:elefant:

may want to tone it down, your team is getting worse, not better since that ancient national title.

Pretty soon you be looking like Notre Dame.

Lonestar
02-23-2009, 02:06 PM
Except Pitt and NE are paying their QBs a ridiculous fortune, and Moss isn't cheap, and...

NE and Pitt have had coaching staffs in place for a long time. The DL in Pitt's scheme have all come up through that scheme. They're bred and drafted for that scheme. They're so good at it now because they've been perfecting it for the last 8 or whatever years as players in the system.

So we can either wait for our Dl draft picks to get 3-4 years under their belts in our system - assuming we have won enough that we still have the system in 4 years and aren't looking for new coaches - or we can add some high-priced defensive FAs to kickstart the process while we wait for our DL talent to ripen into starters worth having and not overpaying.

DL take time to break in to their own and become superstars - or even quality contributors. Starting the season with Ron Brace as our starting NT would be a bad idea. In a perfect world you get a good vet to start at NT for a few years and have Brace back em up while he becomes proficient at the position.

Then you let the vet go, and Brace should be ready to take over when he starts making decent change. You try to time it so you get him signed to an extension or a new contract before he starts dominating, then ride it out with him as long as you can - ie, how the Titans have done it with Haynesworth.

I dunno if Haynesworth would want to come to a place where all he does it eat double-teams...except all he does right now is eat double-teams, so really, what's the difference if it's the NT position or the 3?

I want to add a NT in the draft, but I don't want to have to start him. There are aging vets, backups, or a superstar available in FA. Take your pick of what you want there for the next couple years, but I'd feel far better about paying Haynesworth and Canty using the draft to fill the back 7 and the backup DL positions than trying to draft the DL and make them start.

We tried that plan in 07. It sorta didn't work.

And McDaniels doesn't have Shanahan's "unlimited" tenure to work it out in. He needs this to work now.

So you can bet on 36 year old Grady Jackson not turning into Sam Adams the second we add him, or you can throw a dumptruck full of money at Haynesworth. Either way, the bet is made to keep the coaching staff's and GM's jobs. It doesn't matter what you pay, it matters what the result is.

I don't need Haynesworth, but I'm definitely not writing him off as an option. Fixing the D is the only thing that's gonna keep McD and the new staff here. Haynesworth has the talent to do that at a position that's terribly hard to fill. Whatever the price tag, he's got to be in the conversation.

~G
Good post as always..

As for NE and PIT paying huge QB salaeires

Everyone is that is expected Jay is making alot of coin also.. I think he cost us 5.5 last year with all of his bonuses.. not chump change even though he is on his rookie contract..


But I think Mc Kid will have more grace time than most think he will get.. IF they are prudent in spending money and showing improvement each year..

Pat knows just how bad this Defense is or mikey would still be here.. He also knows that we have hired some experience PROVEN coaches on Defense as DC and below.. Just like Bates was when he was brought in.. But now we have zero resistance in making it happen.. most of the slugs on D are gone and the HC and GM know that while the O is not where it needs to be the D is what killed us the past couple of years..

Can we do almost the same thing without hanesworth? as we could with him it think they have a plan to do so..

IMHO hanesworth does not want to come here unless we offer him a lot more money than he can get playing for a real contender that is just missing his piece the the puzzle.. Right now we are missing all the pieces to the puzzle in D..

jrelway
02-23-2009, 02:13 PM
from SI.com

There's no long line waiting to pry Albert Haynesworth from the Titans.

In fact, Washington might be the logical landing spot. Hmmmm. I wonder why Redskins owner Dan Snyder was having dinner with the agent for Haynesworth, Chad Speck, at Morton's here Saturday night. I'm sure they were just talking about how it was colder here than at the Arctic Circle. But I kept asking all weekend: "Who wants Haynesworth -- or, more appropriately, who's going to pony up for him?'' And I got the old "it only takes one'' answer a few times. But one coach told me the smartest thing, and this was a coach who has some interest in getting Haynesworth at the right price, which is about half of what Haynesworth is hoping to get. "Everybody I've asked this weekend says, 'We're out of that,' or 'I don't think you'll see us involved in Haynesworth.' ''

Sad, really, because he's a great football player, an impactful player who can change a game from the interior defensive line spot. The downer stuff about Haynesworth:

• He's never played a full season. He's started three, 11, 10, 14, 10, 12 and 14 in his seven seasons.

• He's never played more than 65 percent of the Titans' defensive snaps in a season. You might say a Nnamdi Asomugha is tremendously overpaid at $15-million a year (much more on him later in the column), but Asomugha or a quarterback is going to play 95 percent of his unit's plays in the course of a year, barring injury. Even if healthy, Haynesworth's going to come off the field a third of the time, minimum. So do you want to pay quarterback money to a player who never touches the ball and plays two-thirds of the snaps a franchise quarterback plays? It makes no sense.

• He's got a reputation for coasting on some plays.

• He'll be 28 on opening day. You want to pay a 335-pound guy who's never started more than 14 games and is entering his eighth year $13 million or $15 million a year? Good luck.

In the end, my guess is Snyder will pay up and grab him. He's the kind of trophy player Snyder would love to have, and the kind of player, if healthy, who will really help the Redskins close the gap on the Giants in the NFC East.



never played a full season, and has a reputation to coast on some plays? And some want to give a guy that much money when we have bigger issues other than just the tackle position. i hope to god we dont sign this guy. he's a beast, but we need to fill up some serious roster spots on D.

BroncoWave
02-23-2009, 02:15 PM
After reading the first post I stopped..

Think War has been drinking to much fermented Hole Kola berry juice:laugh::laugh:

I do not see them spending that much money on one player after nuking Robertson for his salary.. bad knees or not..

If some else has mentioned in those posts since sorry.. but I did not read them..

Love you War but time to layoff the berry or coconut juice..:salute:

Yes, because Haynesworth and Robertson are totally the same caliber player. :rolleyes:

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 02:30 PM
from SI.com

There's no long line waiting to pry Albert Haynesworth from the Titans.

In fact, Washington might be the logical landing spot. Hmmmm. I wonder why Redskins owner Dan Snyder was having dinner with the agent for Haynesworth, Chad Speck, at Morton's here Saturday night. I'm sure they were just talking about how it was colder here than at the Arctic Circle. But I kept asking all weekend: "Who wants Haynesworth -- or, more appropriately, who's going to pony up for him?'' And I got the old "it only takes one'' answer a few times. But one coach told me the smartest thing, and this was a coach who has some interest in getting Haynesworth at the right price, which is about half of what Haynesworth is hoping to get. "Everybody I've asked this weekend says, 'We're out of that,' or 'I don't think you'll see us involved in Haynesworth.' ''

Sad, really, because he's a great football player, an impactful player who can change a game from the interior defensive line spot. The downer stuff about Haynesworth:

• He's never played a full season. He's started three, 11, 10, 14, 10, 12 and 14 in his seven seasons.

• He's never played more than 65 percent of the Titans' defensive snaps in a season. You might say a Nnamdi Asomugha is tremendously overpaid at $15-million a year (much more on him later in the column), but Asomugha or a quarterback is going to play 95 percent of his unit's plays in the course of a year, barring injury. Even if healthy, Haynesworth's going to come off the field a third of the time, minimum. So do you want to pay quarterback money to a player who never touches the ball and plays two-thirds of the snaps a franchise quarterback plays? It makes no sense.

• He's got a reputation for coasting on some plays.

• He'll be 28 on opening day. You want to pay a 335-pound guy who's never started more than 14 games and is entering his eighth year $13 million or $15 million a year? Good luck.

In the end, my guess is Snyder will pay up and grab him. He's the kind of trophy player Snyder would love to have, and the kind of player, if healthy, who will really help the Redskins close the gap on the Giants in the NFC East.



never played a full season, and has a reputation to coast on some plays? And some want to give a guy that much money when we have bigger issues other than just the tackle position. i hope to god we dont sign this guy. he's a beast, but we need to fill up some serious roster spots on D.

I do say that since we are moving to a 3-4 defense nose tackle is the biggest issue we given it's importance to the scheme. That being said, when everything is taken into consideration I'm not comfortable with idea signing him to that big of a contract.

G_Money
02-23-2009, 02:30 PM
from SI.com
never played a full season, and has a reputation to coast on some plays? And some want to give a guy that much money when we have bigger issues other than just the tackle position. i hope to god we dont sign this guy. he's a beast, but we need to fill up some serious roster spots on D.

ALL DTs take plays off. There isn't one that doesn't. *shrugs* Like I said, Haynesworth is not my first option, but he is AN option, and a damn fine player.

And I'm not sure what our "bigger issues" are than the tackle position. Safety? We can find safeties. CB? Even without Bly we still have Champ, so we only need one spot filled there. LB? LB is one of the safest draft positions, and even with a 3-4 transition on the way there are players available who won't break the bank. DE? Defensive ends in a 3-4 are important, but don't have to do it all by themselves. The guy in the middle is drawing a double-team, and they might as well via the TE or RB, but their job is to be strong enough to hold an edge and collapse a pocket. They don't have to be pass-rushers. In fact, their sack totals are likely to be near invisible, so you don't have to pay em as much as their 4-3 counterparts, or some other positions on the field.

NT makes the 3-4 work for most teams. Without a Wilfork or a Ngata it's not as easy a defense to excel at. The Cowboys have been doing it with an undersized "nobody", but that's rare. Maybe we can do that with a player like Powell, who is hard to move even though he's not a prototypical size for the position.

But you're betting the effectiveness of your DL against the run on it. No NT = a nightmare stopping the run.

We can make that bet if we'd like. We do have a lot of holes to fill and things to test and fine-tune, and we may not want to invest that kind of green in a NT who "only plays 2/3 of the snaps."

And if NT is still a huge issue next year, Wilfork may hit the market, so we can always try to rectify the situation that way.

I just don't think there's really a bigger issue than HOW we pull off the 3-4 conversion, and that starts with how we choose to fill the NT position.

~G

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 02:38 PM
Yes signing is still an option regardless of what side of this issue you're on. What I would do is give more serious consideration to Gabe Watkins and Grady Jackson first.

jrelway
02-23-2009, 02:43 PM
i wish haynesworth would last till after our draft.

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 02:50 PM
i wish haynesworth would last till after our draft.

If that were to happen I'm going to start looking around for Peter Pan and Captain Hook. :lol:

SoCalImport
02-23-2009, 02:56 PM
I've been back and forth a bit about an attempt to lure Haynesworth to the Broncos. There are good arguments all around, as usual.
So I decided to go back and watch the tape.
NO WAY do I ever want to see this guy in a BRONCOS JERSEY....EVER.
jmho.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5nlEA8BUTQ

Poet
02-23-2009, 03:01 PM
I've been back and forth a bit about an attempt to lure Haynesworth to the Broncos. There are good arguments all around, as usual.
So I decided to go back and watch the tape.
NO WAY do I ever want to see this guy in a BRONCOS JERSEY....EVER.
jmho.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5nlEA8BUTQ

That was probably one the worst moments in recent NFL memory.

Lonestar
02-23-2009, 03:08 PM
That was probably one the worst moments in recent NFL memory.


not quite that bad IMO but certainly a cheap shot..

not someone I want to spend mega bucks on only to be suspended for dirty play..

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 03:34 PM
I do think that incident is that bad, because the guy was on the ground without a helmet.

That said, it was three years ago. I would understand if teams took that into consideration however his talent will trump the bad act.

CoachChaz
02-23-2009, 03:38 PM
Step on a guys head or smack a woman around. I'm not going to begin to decide which is worse, but it appears some have

Poet
02-23-2009, 05:14 PM
I'll put it like this; the Bengals are ranked 10th or 11th in cap space. If they spent the majority of it on Haynesworth and then picked up an average center in FA, I would actually feel like we had a true shot at the playoffs via winning the division.

The guy is the best defensive player in the league. I haven't personally seen a DT this good since a young Warren Sapp.

If the Broncos did land him, your defense would improve dramatically.

underrated29
02-23-2009, 05:34 PM
Puts our backs against a wall?


Jamarcus: $68 million, 32 million guaranteed

McFadden: $60 million, 26 guaranteed

Kelly: $50 million, 18 guaranteed

Gallery: $60 million, 18 guaranteed

Javon Walker: $55 million, 16 guaranteed

Hall: $70 million, 24 million guaranteed

Huff: $43 million, 16 guaranteed

Asumugha: three year: $45 million, 30 million guaranteed


I love Al Davis!!!

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 05:39 PM
I love Al Davis!!!

Best part is they already cut half of em.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 05:42 PM
may want to tone it down, your team is getting worse, not better since that ancient national title.

Pretty soon you be looking like Notre Dame.

They'll be fine. They have 2 10 win seasons in the last 3 and were a dumb INT away from beating the Natl Champ LSU in the SECCG. They have talent...and now they'll be much less predictable on O.

WARHORSE
02-23-2009, 05:47 PM
Except Pitt and NE are paying their QBs a ridiculous fortune, and Moss isn't cheap, and...

NE and Pitt have had coaching staffs in place for a long time. The DL in Pitt's scheme have all come up through that scheme. They're bred and drafted for that scheme. They're so good at it now because they've been perfecting it for the last 8 or whatever years as players in the system.

So we can either wait for our Dl draft picks to get 3-4 years under their belts in our system - assuming we have won enough that we still have the system in 4 years and aren't looking for new coaches - or we can add some high-priced defensive FAs to kickstart the process while we wait for our DL talent to ripen into starters worth having and not overpaying.

DL take time to break in to their own and become superstars - or even quality contributors. Starting the season with Ron Brace as our starting NT would be a bad idea. In a perfect world you get a good vet to start at NT for a few years and have Brace back em up while he becomes proficient at the position.

Then you let the vet go, and Brace should be ready to take over when he starts making decent change. You try to time it so you get him signed to an extension or a new contract before he starts dominating, then ride it out with him as long as you can - ie, how the Titans have done it with Haynesworth.

I dunno if Haynesworth would want to come to a place where all he does it eat double-teams...except all he does right now is eat double-teams, so really, what's the difference if it's the NT position or the 3?

I highly doubt this is what they will do with him. Thats what makes him so valuable imo. He can clog the middle at NT, but he can rush the passer from there and collapse the pocket up the gut which causes players like Peyton and Tom, who are both immobile, to shake in their cleats. Also, Haynesworth plays DE as well, and he is the perfect 3-4 DE. He can be moved all along the Dline, in ANY scheme. Hes huge with long arms, and he bats passes down. You show him presnap at DE with Thomas at NT and Moss, Dumerville, DJ, etc. So offensive lines call the protection accordingly. Then he moves over to DT, Thomas shifts over to DT and Dumerville or DJ or Moss comes up to rush the passer. All this with the Oline worrying about him being able to cause just as much problems at DT as he can at DE. If they put the TE out there for him, now what? Shift the OT down to Albert and leave Dumerville one on one with the TE? Double up the guard and center on Albert (which he might still crush) while leaving Thomas one on one with a guard?


I want to add a NT in the draft, but I don't want to have to start him. There are aging vets, backups, or a superstar available in FA. Take your pick of what you want there for the next couple years, but I'd feel far better about paying Haynesworth and Canty using the draft to fill the back 7 and the backup DL positions than trying to draft the DL and make them start.

Man, that would be killer. How about Haynesworth and Canty in FA, then trading down to Phillys two first rounders, getting Tyson Jackson and a LBer like Clay Mathews, or a corner, then getting a Moala in round two?

Talk about a killer Dline rotation: Moala, Canty, Haynesworth, Thomas, Jackson...........omg. That would be like the Giants dominant front rushing four that won the superbowl, only in a 3-4 scheme. Man would that be lovely. I can dream a scenario with the best of them, eh?

We tried that plan in 07. It sorta didn't work.

And McDaniels doesn't have Shanahan's "unlimited" tenure to work it out in. He needs this to work now.

The good thing though, is Bowlen wants this kid to succeed, and is opening the pocketbooks to do so. Sweeeet.

So you can bet on 36 year old Grady Jackson not turning into Sam Adams the second we add him, or you can throw a dumptruck full of money at Haynesworth. Either way, the bet is made to keep the coaching staff's and GM's jobs. It doesn't matter what you pay, it matters what the result is.

I don't need Haynesworth, but I'm definitely not writing him off as an option. Fixing the D is the only thing that's gonna keep McD and the new staff here. Haynesworth has the talent to do that at a position that's terribly hard to fill. Whatever the price tag, he's got to be in the conversation.

~G

There are a ton of variables in all this. Lets hope some teams make some dumb choices while we make some good ones this offseason.

underrated29
02-23-2009, 05:59 PM
Best part is they already cut half of em.



Greasy Old AL is the best coach on our team. He needs an MVP award fo sho.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 06:16 PM
I think the stomping is a supreme dick move and I was pissed as a Vols fan that he did it. Still am. But IMHO, it's a far cry from slapping a woman.

WARHORSE
02-23-2009, 06:19 PM
When all is said and done, I dont think the Broncos will be the ones to offer him the most coin.


But who knows..........I just hope we make some moves to dramatically change the defense.

I think we're going to be looking at Pittsburgs FAs for sure.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 06:23 PM
I do like McFadden, but the thing that scares me about Pitt players is that they often end up being system guys. There have been some guys who left and had success, but that is the minority.

Lonestar
02-23-2009, 07:04 PM
I'll put it like this; the Bengals are ranked 10th or 11th in cap space. If they spent the majority of it on Haynesworth and then picked up an average center in FA, I would actually feel like we had a true shot at the playoffs via winning the division.

The guy is the best defensive player in the league. I haven't personally seen a DT this good since a young Warren Sapp.

If the Broncos did land him, your defense would improve dramatically.


The issues we have in DEN right now is we have NO defense at all.. DJ Williams Champ. as established player.. a couple of 2007 draft choice Dline folks and doom, Powel who was on PUP all last year Barrett an almost rookie FS, Woodyard a to Small LB they tried at SS a few games and Larsen a FB/MLB that played well but is still rookie..

None of which have played in a 3-4.. at all in the pros..

ONE person is not going to make a defense.. as good as he is..

WARHORSE
02-23-2009, 07:08 PM
The issues we have in DEN right now is we have NO defense at all.. DJ Williams Champ. as established player.. a couple of 2007 draft choice Dline folks and doom, Powel who was on PUP all last year Barrett an almost rookie FS, Woodyard a to Small LB they tried at SS a few games and Larsen a FB/MLB that played well but is still rookie..

None of which have played in a 3-4.. at all in the pros..

ONE person is not going to make a defense.. as good as he is..



Yet no other 'one' player can do as much. These types of players dont grow on trees.


He is, afterall, the most dominant defensive tackle in the league bar none.

Lonestar
02-23-2009, 07:11 PM
Yet no other 'one' player can do as much. These types of players dont grow on trees.


He is, afterall, the most dominant defensive tackle in the league bar none.


I do not understand this love affair you have with him.. Is he a cousin or something?

This is almost as unhealthy as Mtntmans affair with Jake..


yes he is a great DT but we will never see him in Denver except if or when Washington comes to town..

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 07:19 PM
I think the stomping is a supreme dick move and I was pissed as a Vols fan that he did it. Still am. But IMHO, it's a far cry from slapping a woman.

What Haynesworth did was terrible, but he's no Rae Carruth.

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 07:23 PM
I do not understand this love affair you have with him.. Is he a cousin or something?

This is almost as unhealthy as Mtntmans affair with Jake..


yes he is a great DT but we will never see him in Denver except if or when Washington comes to town..

It's not unlike your obsession with Shanahan.

EMB6903
02-23-2009, 07:23 PM
I do like McFadden, but the thing that scares me about Pitt players is that they often end up being system guys. There have been some guys who left and had success, but that is the minority.

exactly, esspecially CB's.... Pittsburgh is known for making average CB's at best look good..... take him out of that Dick Lebeau scheme without those amazing pass rushers and we will see how good he is.

dogfish
02-23-2009, 07:27 PM
It's not unlike your obsession with Shanahan.


oops!



he's got ya there JR. . . .



:rofl:

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 07:34 PM
exactly, esspecially CB's.... Pittsburgh is known for making average CB's at best look good..... take him out of that Dick Lebeau scheme without those amazing pass rushers and we will see how good he is.

At the same time, we are about to model a 3-4 D and will likely increase the QB pressure...eventually.

Bad Intentions
02-23-2009, 07:46 PM
Just read that a lot of teams are shying away from Haynesworth and aren't considering paying him what he is looking for ($100m w/30m guaranteed). I would guess the Broncos woiuld be interested in signing him for half that?

EMB6903
02-23-2009, 07:52 PM
At the same time, we are about to model a 3-4 D and will likely increase the QB pressure...eventually.

true, but not nearly as effective as Pittsburgh

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 08:13 PM
true, but not nearly as effective as Pittsburgh

What's to say that eventually we wont be able be as effective as Pittsburgh?

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 08:50 PM
true, but not nearly as effective as Pittsburgh

gotta sart somewhere

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 08:56 PM
gotta sart somewhere

Exactly.

EMB6903
02-23-2009, 09:02 PM
What's to say that eventually we wont be able be as effective as Pittsburgh?

I dont think any team has ever been effective running this scheme..... Dick Lebeau is the greatest defensive coordinator of all time In my opinion..... go along with a top 3 NT, 2 solid ends and 2 AMAZING pass rushers in Woodley and Harrison..... I'd love to eventually be as productive Im just being realistic here.

EMB6903
02-23-2009, 09:05 PM
gotta sart somewhere

ya but when it comes to Bartell or Mcfadden Ill take Bartell..... a player who has shown production with very little defensive talent around.

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 09:11 PM
I dont think any team has ever been effective running this scheme..... Dick Lebeau is the greatest defensive coordinator of all time In my opinion..... go along with a top 3 NT, 2 solid ends and 2 AMAZING pass rushers in Woodley and Harrison..... I'd love to eventually be as productive Im just being realistic here.

Yeah you're entitled to your opinion but Lebeau isn't architect of the Steelers 3-4 defense. Actually what you said has nothing to do with being realistic, because you're judging the future which you can't predict.

EMB6903
02-23-2009, 09:15 PM
Yeah you're entitled to your opinion but Lebeau isn't architect of the Steelers 3-4 defense. Actually what you said has nothing to do with being realistic, because you're judging the future which you can't predict.


whos the "architect" of the Pittsburgh 3-4 scheme if Lebeau isnt? I would LOVE to hear that one.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 09:16 PM
Like we said as well...ya may not wanna give to much credit to those "great pass rushers". Others have failed miserably once leaving the Burgh.

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 09:16 PM
whos the "architect" of the Pittsburgh 3-4 scheme if Lebeau isnt? I would LOVE to hear that one.

Dom Capers.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 09:16 PM
whos the "architect" of the Pittsburgh 3-4 scheme if Lebeau isnt? I would LOVE to hear that one.

They've had a bunch of DCs over the past 10-15 years.

EMB6903
02-23-2009, 09:22 PM
They've had a bunch of DCs over the past 10-15 years.

so??? you realize he was the defensive coordinator in the mid 90s when pittsburgh started using this scheme, RIght?

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 09:23 PM
yes...but the scheme evolved over time. It used to be zone-blitz heavy, now not so much. Every person who coached there left their mark on it.

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 09:33 PM
yes...but the scheme evolved over time. It used to be zone-blitz heavy, now not so much. Every person who coached there left their mark on it.

They have had only two coordinators since the introduction of the 3-4 defense to Pittsburgh. Capers and Lebeau and it was Capers who built their 3-4 defense to being with.

EMB6903
02-23-2009, 09:36 PM
They have had only two coordinators since the introduction of the 3-4 defense to Pittsburgh. Capers and Lebeau and it was Capers who built their 3-4 defense to being with.

well there is different ways to execute in a 3-4 scheme... but if you want to get technical Dave Brazil braught the 3-4 scheme to Pittsburgh before Capers was even in the burgh

and you are wrong on only 2 coordinators being there since the 3-4 scheme... Haslett took over when Lebeau took a head coaching position

TXBRONC
02-23-2009, 09:49 PM
well there is different ways to execute in a 3-4 scheme... but if you want to get technical Dave Brazil braught the 3-4 scheme to Pittsburgh before Capers was even in the burgh

and you are wrong on only 2 coordinators being there since the 3-4 scheme... Haslett took over when Lebeau took a head coaching position

Big deal I missed Haslett, however I pretty sure it was Capers who brought the 3-4 defense to Pittsburgh.

EMB6903
02-23-2009, 09:54 PM
Big deal I missed Haslett, however I pretty sure it was Capers who brought the 3-4 defense to Pittsburgh.

na man, you are wrong on Capers....Brazil was running that scheme with Gerald Williams as the NT during those years in Pittsburgh with Greg Lloyd and Jerrell Williams as your 3-4 outside linebackers rushing the passer.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-23-2009, 09:56 PM
And big Levon Kirkland at ILB.

DenBronx
02-24-2009, 01:11 AM
as much as i like haynesworth i just dont see us signing him. a few have expressed concerns about him only playing hard when he is on a contract year. somehow i just get a gut feeling that mckid and xanders are going to think they can outwit everyone by spending in other areas. lots of second rate players i think will be brought in. unfortunately....thats exactlly what got shanahan fired. he didnt get the quality players when he had the chance.

Lonestar
02-24-2009, 01:25 AM
as much as i like haynesworth i just dont see us signing him. a few have expressed concerns about him only playing hard when he is on a contract year. somehow i just get a gut feeling that mckid and xanders are going to think they can outwit everyone by spending in other areas. lots of second rate players i think will be brought in. unfortunately....thats exactlly what got shanahan fired. he didnt get the quality players when he had the chance.

what got mikey fired was no coherent plan once they were brought to play..

With Nolan here that should not be an issue..

DenBronx
02-24-2009, 01:33 AM
what got mikey fired was no coherent plan once they were brought to play..

With Nolan here that should not be an issue..

eh, i dont know jr. i think by bringing in guys like simeon rice, travesty henry, sam adams, jerry "older than" rice, maurice clarett. ect. it hurt him more than anything. mike was an outstanding coach/play caller but a terrible gm. i think if we would have had a guy like pioli or tuna playing gm it would have brought in the proper talent for him to have a super bowl team. he just flat out sucked at finding the right guys and his drafts were gawd awfull!

jrelway
02-24-2009, 05:12 PM
from rotoworld:


Citing a "very well-connected league source," Lance Zierlein of the Houston Chronicle reports that Albert Haynesworth will sign with the Redskins at the start of free agency unless the Titans swoop in late.

Zierlein, the son of Steelers OL coach Larry Zierlein, has a blog at Chron.com and does a radio show. His source says Haynesworth will get a deal totaling roughly $100 million that pays $15-16 million annually. Zierlein usually doesn't report anything, so this should be taken with a grain of salt. But the Redskins have been mentioned as the most likely destination elsewhere and are always willing to make a splash. It passes the smell test, even if the source is odd. Feb. 24 - 1:44 pm et
Source: Houston Chronicle

jrelway
02-24-2009, 05:13 PM
kind of relieved to hear this news. look at what he's demanding in $$. thank you daniel snyder.

TXBRONC
02-24-2009, 06:00 PM
kind of relieved to hear this news. look at what he's demanding in $$. thank you daniel snyder.

That's typical of Snyder.

dogfish
02-24-2009, 07:09 PM
That's typical of Snyder.

seriously!


:lol:



in a market where it LOOKS like no one wants to pay him more than fifty million, dumbass snyder will reportedly give him a hundred? i mean, pay to get the player you want if that's what you gotta do, but there's no reason to double the current offers he's getting. . . why not let the market do its job, offer him sixty to sixty-five and see if anyone else will match that. . . IF this is true, that is some piss-poor negotiating! and you're right, it's typical snyder-- he has so much money he'd rather spend an extra thirty million or so to just lock his guy up, rather than bidding for his services against other clubs. . . the guy clearly has so much money that he doesn't even bother to think of its worth any more. . .

between him and jackass al davis giving nnamdi 15 million a year, owners like the rooneys and irsay are probably left shaking their heads. . . of course, the best redemption is that those fiscally responsible clubs have both won recent championships, while neither the skins or the faders will EVER get one under their current ownership! this isn't baseball, you can't go steinbrenner on the league and expect it to work. . . look at alllll those huge contracts greasy al wrote out last year, and he's already cut most of those guys. . . :lol: but some people are either just too senile to learn, or just plain not bright enough. . . .

DenBronx
02-24-2009, 08:19 PM
ouch! snyder should have waited a bit. maybe he's just trying to drive up haynesworths asking price so his competition wont sign him.

Poet
02-24-2009, 08:59 PM
Yeah you're entitled to your opinion but Lebeau isn't architect of the Steelers 3-4 defense. Actually what you said has nothing to do with being realistic, because you're judging the future which you can't predict.

Umm, yes he is. Lebeau actually is credited with inventing the zone blitz.

I cannot think of any reasonable, remotely reasonable argument for saying that. The Steelers have been running the exact same defense every year Dick Lebeau has been there for a one reason; Dick Lebeau has it mastered and is the best defensive coordinator ever bar none which works wonderfully.

Exactly who could the architect be other THAN Lebaeu

EMB6903
02-24-2009, 09:12 PM
That's typical of Snyder.

yup, Ill bet 30 teams are furious at what Al Davis and Dan Snyder just did.

tomjonesrocks
02-27-2009, 12:15 PM
I'm SHOCKED we didn't get him...:rolleyes:

The next time we get a marquee FA of this level will be the first.

[/endthread]

TXBRONC
02-27-2009, 12:21 PM
Umm, yes he is. Lebeau actually is credited with inventing the zone blitz.

I cannot think of any reasonable, remotely reasonable argument for saying that. The Steelers have been running the exact same defense every year Dick Lebeau has been there for a one reason; Dick Lebeau has it mastered and is the best defensive coordinator ever bar none which works wonderfully.

Exactly who could the architect be other THAN Lebaeu

No he's not. Dom Capers was the D.C. when they started running the 3-4 defense they way we see it now.

Poet
02-27-2009, 12:31 PM
No he's not. Dom Capers was the D.C. when they started running the 3-4 defense they way we see it now.

He was there defensive coordinator in 92 until be became the Panther's head coach in 95.

He put in a 3-4 defense. Dick Lebeau came and then put in a better version of the defense.....

Dick Lebeau is the architect of the 3-4 that the Steelers run now.