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broncobryce
02-19-2009, 11:21 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ed19f4&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- The Carolina Panthers placed their franchise tag on defensive end Julius Peppers on Thursday, setting up a potential nasty showdown with the four-time Pro Bowl defensive end, who wants to play elsewhere next season.

Julius Peppers, DE
Carolina Panthers

2008 Statistics
Tackles: 51
Sacks: 14.5
Forced fumbles: 5
The move came moments after the Panthers signed All-Pro left tackle Jordan Gross to a six-year deal that's worth more than $30 million in the first three seasons. Having locked up Gross, the Panthers then placed the non-exclusive tag on Peppers, who had said he would request a trade under that scenario.

"Julius was expecting to be franchised," Peppers' agent, Carl Carey, wrote in a text message. "We will continue to work toward a resolution that is in line with his professional goals."

Under the non-exclusive franchise tag rules, Carolina offered Peppers a one-year guaranteed deal worth $16.7 million that will immediately count against the salary cap. While Peppers can still solicit offers from other teams, any club signing Peppers would have to surrender two first-round draft picks to the Panthers.

Placing the tag on Peppers theoretically allows the Panthers to trade him for something less than two first-rounders and receive some compensation instead of letting the cornerstone of their defense walk away in free agency. But Peppers has power because no team likely would trade for him without first securing a long-term contract agreement.

A person close to Peppers on Wednesday said the defensive end would agree to be traded to only four teams, including the Dallas Cowboys, who do not hold a first-round pick. So the Panthers face the prospect of not being able to work out a trade and then having Peppers either hold out or be disgruntled while eating up a giant portion of the salary cap.

But while Peppers has been adamant that he won't sign a long-term deal with Carolina, Panthers general manager Marty Hurney wouldn't rule out Peppers returning and said the team will not immediately seek a trade.

"We've said many times how many times we value Julius," Hurney said. "We would like him to play here."

NFL teams can place the franchise tag on just one player, so the Panthers were scrambling to come to terms with Gross before the Thursday afternoon deadline.

Gross, Carolina's first-round draft pick in 2003, played last season under the franchise tag in a one-year, $7.45 million deal. His new contract makes him one of the NFL's highest-paid offensive lineman.


Stephen Dunn / Getty Images
The Carolina Panthers tagged DE Julius Peppers as their franchise player, but will he be traded?

Teams that used their franchise tag
Team Player
Arizona Cardinals LB Karlos Dansby
Atlanta Falcons P Michael Koenen
Baltimore Ravens LB Terrell Suggs
Carolina Panthers DE Julius Peppers
Cincinnati Bengals K Shayne Graham
Houston Texans CB Dunta Robinson
New England Patriots QB Matt Cassel
New York Giants RB Brandon Jacobs
Pittsburgh Steelers OT Max Starks
San Diego Chargers RB Darren Sproles
Seattle Seahawks LB Leroy Hill
St. Louis Rams S Oshiomogho Atogwe
Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR Antonio Bryant
Tennessee Titans TE Bo Scaife
"Jordan is one of the top left tackles in our league, and our offensive line was one of our strong points of our team last year," Hurney said. "Jordan's a very big part of that. ... We're so glad we were able to come to an agreement and be able to have Jordan here for another six years."

Gross, who made his first Pro Bowl and was voted a first-team All-Pro last season, had said he wanted to stay in Carolina, and he was the key cog in an improved offensive line that helped running backs DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart have breakout seasons.

Thursday's moves mean that all five starters on the offensive line are locked up in long-term deals. The defensive line, meanwhile, is in flux -- and Gross' contract allowed the Panthers to play hardball with Peppers.

"He actually texted me congratulations after I signed and said you deserve it," Gross said of Peppers in a brief phone interview Thursday night. "I think it was much easier on the team dealing with him."

Peppers, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2002 draft, is a freakish athlete and Carolina's career sacks leader. But Peppers also has been criticized for inconsistent play -- he had a career-high 14.5 sacks this past season but a career-low 2.5 in 2007.

Even in 2008, Peppers didn't record a single tackle against the Denver Broncos and was shut down in Carolina's divisional-playoff loss to the Arizona Cardinals.

Peppers, who turned down a lucrative contract extension before the start of last season, has said he would like to play outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense instead of staying in Carolina's 4-3 alignment.

There is precedent to slapping the franchise tag on a player and then dealing him. The Kansas City Chiefs traded defensive end Jared Allen to the Minnesota Vikings last year for a first-round pick and two third-round choices. But Allen and the Vikings first agreed to a six-year contract that included $31 million in guaranteed money and could be worth $74 million if he meets certain incentives.

"You guys know how I feel about all this speculation and stuff," Hurney said, when asked if the Panthers could pull off a similar deal. "We franchised him, and that's where we are right now."

broncohead
02-19-2009, 11:27 PM
No. We need our draft picks for players that will hopefully be here longer then just a couple years.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-19-2009, 11:29 PM
Negatory

I don't wanna spend the moeny he'd want let alone adding 2-3 draft picks as well.

TXBRONC
02-19-2009, 11:31 PM
I like Peppers and would like to have him in a Broncos uniform but not for two number one picks.

MOtorboat
02-19-2009, 11:33 PM
Hell no.

We have too many holes, and WAY too many needs to be surrendering 1st round picks for anyone.

Shazam!
02-19-2009, 11:38 PM
We need to build through the DRAFT. I think Denver's future is hinged on it. Liek they built the Offense through the Draft, that's where they need to go on D.

MOtorboat
02-19-2009, 11:38 PM
We need to build through the DRAFT.

And quality, fair-priced free agents.

TXBRONC
02-19-2009, 11:40 PM
Hell no.

We have too many holes, and WAY too many needs to be surrendering 1st round picks for anyone.

No player no matter how good they are is worth two years worth of draft picks.

Lonestar
02-19-2009, 11:40 PM
If it were for a number 2 and a reasonable salary in the 3-4 mil range maybe he would be worth it.. But we just got rid of a salary cap hog in Robertson and while I would not compare their abilities we do not need someone coming in and glooming up 12-18 mil a year..

I;d Rather get 2-3 players for that total.. and grow my own studs via the draft..

Shazam!
02-19-2009, 11:46 PM
There are players available through the Draft that can start in September and be effective immediately and boost the defense.

Lonestar
02-19-2009, 11:50 PM
There are players available through the Draft that can start in September and be effective immediately and boost the defense.


if we pick wisely there could be 2-3 and as many as 4 that could be starters on this team.. It may/will not be pretty but they cut their teeth day one..

TXBRONC
02-19-2009, 11:53 PM
There are players available through the Draft that can start in September and be effective immediately and boost the defense.

That's true but it is highly unlikely that we will find that many players who can start from day one out of the draft.

MOtorboat
02-19-2009, 11:54 PM
That's true but it is highly unlikely that we will find that players who can start from day one out of the draft.

Actually, it's not that highly unlikely, as we already have to replace, by my count, at least six defensive starters with someone.

TXBRONC
02-19-2009, 11:57 PM
Actually, it's not that highly unlikely, as we already have to replace, by my count, at least six defensive starters with someone.

To find six players who start immediately out of one draft, I don't think that's very likely.

MOtorboat
02-19-2009, 11:59 PM
To find six players who start immediately out of one draft, I don't think that's very likely.

When you have eight or nine open slots on your defense...:noidea:

I'm just saying, that if there's any team where that would happen...this is it.

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 12:00 AM
When you have eight or nine open slots on your defense...:noidea:

I'm just saying, that if there's any team where that would happen...this is it.

I gottcha. :salute:

MOtorboat
02-20-2009, 12:03 AM
I gottcha. :salute:

I'll also add that I don't think the original thought was that SIX players would start, but that we need to draft defensive starters in each of the first three rounds, and I'll definitely agree with that...six is probably a pipe dream, but SOMEONE has to play....

slim
02-20-2009, 12:04 AM
Let's not get carried away. Eight or nine slots?

Well, we already have four or five of our starters on the roster (and plenty of players that would be decent back ups). We will probably pick up at least three or four stop-gap type FA.

Don't really think we need more than a couple players from the draft that can step in right away.

MOtorboat
02-20-2009, 12:06 AM
Let's not get carried away. Eight or nine slots?

Well, we already have four or five of our starters on the roster (and plenty of players that would be decent back ups). We will probably pick up at least three or four stop-gap type FA.

Don't really think we need more than a couple players from the draft that can step in right away.

So, who are those four or five starters?

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 12:11 AM
I'll also add that I don't think the original thought was that SIX players would start, but that we need to draft defensive starters in each of the first three rounds, and I'll definitely agree with that...six is probably a pipe dream, but SOMEONE has to play....

That makes sense. I can see us drafting six defensive player and I could see us going exclusively defense in the first three rounds if right players are there.

slim
02-20-2009, 12:13 AM
So, who are those four or five starters?

Champ and DJ, of course.

I think Woodyard will start, but not sure of his position (but there is no doubt he needs to be on the field).

I think Thomas will start at one of the DE positions and Boss will be one of the OLB (I am not crazy about this, but I believe that's what will happen).

Larsen and Barrett both have a chance. I think Larsen will be a hell of an ILB and Barrett has an outside shot at starting as well.

MOtorboat
02-20-2009, 12:14 AM
Champ and DJ, of course.

I think Woodyard will start, but not sure of his position (but there is no doubt he needs to be on the field).

I think Thomas will start at one of the DE positions and Boss will be one of the OLB (I am not crazy about this, but I believe that's what will happen).

Larsen and Barrett both have a chance. I think Larsen will be a hell of an ILB and Barrett has an outside shot at starting as well.

That's a lot of maybes...:listen:

slim
02-20-2009, 12:17 AM
That's a lot of maybes...:listen:

Yeah, so does your theory of 6 rookies starting :listen:

TXBRONC
02-20-2009, 12:23 AM
Champ and DJ, of course.

I think Woodyard will start, but not sure of his position (but there is no doubt he needs to be on the field).

I think Thomas will start at one of the DE positions and Boss will be one of the OLB (I am not crazy about this, but I believe that's what will happen).

Larsen and Barrett both have a chance. I think Larsen will be a hell of an ILB and Barrett has an outside shot at starting as well.

That's just it Slim. Champ and DJ are the only two locks. But after them its up in the air. I hope that Woodyard, Thomas, Larsen, and Barrett could start, that would make things a little easier in some respects.

MOtorboat
02-20-2009, 12:33 AM
Yeah, so does your theory of 6 rookies starting :listen:

It wasn't a theory, or even a summation, it was just simply affirming a previous posters comments about rookies playing, simply because the talent on this defense was so pathetic.

We will have somewhere near 8 or 9 new starters, however, whether it be a new starter, or a player at a different position.

MOtorboat
02-20-2009, 12:33 AM
That's just it Slim. Champ and DJ are the only two locks. But after them its up in the air. I hope that Woodyard, Thomas, Larsen, and Barrett could start, that would make things a little easier in some respects.

And D.J. is even moving inside.

Cheez Whiz
02-20-2009, 12:46 AM
No thanks. We need to build through the draft, not 1 player.

Spread the wealth.

oobehr
02-20-2009, 12:48 AM
We have to pick up 2-4 stop gap free agents. We need a veteran at inside linebacker, safety, or nose tackle. If DJ moves inside we need atleast one play-making linebacker on the outside. We don't need sack machines in the front 3 just big guys who know how to take one for the team. I think if we use the rookies we had last year and continue their development, add 1-2 impact play makers, one at nose tackle and one at linebacker, and get some veteran safety's that are decent, I think we jump to top 15 defense. We have several players that could be pretty decent, we just don't have any play makers. We get the linebacker that becomes our ware or harrison, even if he is just a milder version of them, that produces sacks, we get a decent secondary(nothing spectacular) that doesn't have to carry as much because we are creating pressure. Better run defense because we have plenty of guys that can play defense, better pass defense, more sacks, more turnovers and then our new high powered, spread offense can rip people to shreds.

New England only had the 10th ranked defense based on yardage, 15th in ints, 19th in forced fumbles, 14th in sacks. They finished 11-5 and their offense wasn't even as good as ours. We could go to the playoffs pretty quick if we wanted to.

BRONCOSFREAK765
02-20-2009, 01:27 AM
Nope we wouldnt do this even in the shanny era...only team dumb enough to do it would be the raiders...them switching back to the 3-4 would make sense to al davis...lol

honz
02-20-2009, 02:07 AM
Hell no.

We have too many holes, and WAY too many needs to be surrendering 1st round picks for anyone.
This. I would have loved to get him as a FA, but our draft picks are way too valuable with all of the holes we need to fill on D.

dogfish
02-20-2009, 03:11 AM
pass. . . the price is too high when you start talking about giving out a megadea AND high draft picks. . .


would you rather have chris canty, bryant mcfadden or jermaine phillips, AND bj raji or rey maualuga. . . or peppers? easy choice IMO. . . .

fcspikeit
02-20-2009, 03:56 AM
If we could get him for a couple day 2 picks and an insensitive based deal. I would be all for it...

IMO, if he really can put up Ware type #'s he is worth paying the type of money he wants. I see no reason why he shouldn't be willing to prove he can do it before we pay him what he will be asking for... Maybe we could work a deal to give them continual picks in next years draft?

EMB6903
02-20-2009, 04:03 AM
I say no, I was hoping Gross didnt land a deal with the Panthers before the deadline so Denver could pursue him in Free Agency, but now that hes been tagged it will cost way too much to get him.

Cugel
02-20-2009, 07:08 AM
Actually, it's not that highly unlikely, as we already have to replace, by my count, at least six defensive starters with someone.

It's actually at LEAST 7 or 8 starters! Remember they cut Dre Bly too.

I posted this in another thread:

It doesn't matter how good Haynesworth is, the Broncos simply aren't in a position to pay him what he wants, and he doesn't even want to come here. Same goes for Peppers or any other big name FA. They aren't one or two guys away from competing for a SB, the way Shanahan always thought. They're more like 8 or 10 guys away. :coffee:

The team needs at least 7 new starters on defense, and probably 8 or even 9.


If you look over the roster only Champ Bailey, DJ Williams and possibly Marcus Thomas stand out as starters. Thomas is a stretch, but he's a 3rd year DT, so unless they cut him he ought to be given a job somewhere on the defensive line. Hopefully, he'll be at least mediocre and fill up space on the field.

Outside of him, it's all wishful thinking:

Can Tim Crowder become a 3-4 DE starter, or even backup?
Can Elvis Dumervil or Jarvis Moss become an OLB starter or even backup in a 3-4?
Can become any other Bronco start in a 3-4?
Who's going to play CB? Who's the nickel CB?
Who are the safeties (you need 4)?

I don't think you can count on any of the LBs starting: Spencer Larson, Boss Bailey, Wesley Woodyard. These guys are all backups. All three will probably be gone by next year, and some might not make the 53 man roster THIS year. We have to remember that a lot more cuts are coming to this team, the ones we've seen so far are just the useless chodes like Engleberger & the crippled DeWayne Robertson, who will soon be out of football.

IF Dumervil or Moss can play OLB, then you have TWO starting LBs. If one of the other LBs can fill in one starting ILB spot you only need 1 OLB starter. I have NO idea where they're going to find 4 safeties, or even three if Josh Barnett stays as a backup.

This team could conceivably need NINE new starters! Like every fan, I'm hoping it's not that bad and that they can find at least 4 or 5 guys already on the roster to start in 2009. But, we have to face facts.


All told, 11 holdovers from the Mike Shanahan era have been axed in the past few days. And trust me, there will be more. (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11723060)

With a new coaching staff and general manager in place, the changes were inevitable. It's a way of life in professional sports, where new coaches want to make their own decisions, bring in their own players, make their own signature moves.

It's more than that, though. The roster purge serves as a reminder of how far this team is from competing for a Super Bowl berth. It wasn't just a matter of money, of players being due roster bonuses if they stuck around for a few more weeks.

No, this is about talent. Obviously, Josh McDaniels, during his countless hours of breaking down video of the roster he inherited, didn't see much of it.

So 11 players are gone. And the purge won't end there. Others will follow before the start of next season.

As for those who'll stay, they had better play with a chip on their shoulders. Because, with precious few exceptions, they could be gone at a moment's notice, too.

The players still on the roster will get a look at training camp and might well be cut at that point. Expect the turnover to continue right up till September when I expect the Broncos will be intensely scanning the waiver wire in search of talent. They will probably bring in a number of undrafted FAs for a look too.

WARHORSE
02-20-2009, 07:27 AM
Pass on giving up first rounders for Peppers.


I'd give them Dumerville and a Snickers bar for him, but thats about the extent of it.



I was thinking earlier that we'd look at FAgents like Haggans........but come to find out he was injured much of last year.


We will be looking to draft alot of players. Sure hope the talent pool turns out to be rich in this years draft...................:coffee:

claymore
02-20-2009, 07:40 AM
Peppers is a freak. We are not going to be able to draft or sign anyone who could come close to him. If we can trade back in the first round best case scenario.... Our #12 overall is worth Pittsburgh's 1-7 picks.

If we trade our number one back, and we get additional picks and peppers... Than I say hell yeah.

MOtorboat
02-20-2009, 08:33 AM
Peppers is a freak. We are not going to be able to draft or sign anyone who could come close to him. If we can trade back in the first round best case scenario.... Our #12 overall is worth Pittsburgh's 1-7 picks.

If we trade our number one back, and we get additional picks and peppers... Than I say hell yeah.

Clay, there's no real negotiation here.

It's two first round picks, Denver's this year, and Denver's next year.

It's simply not worth it.

eessydo
02-20-2009, 08:48 AM
In my opinion, NOBODY is worth trading for once the Franchise tag has been put on them. Just keep your picks and your money.

Besides, it might be a free for all in a couple of years with the CBA expiring. No need to put all your cash in now.

claymore
02-20-2009, 08:57 AM
Clay, there's no real negotiation here.

It's two first round picks, Denver's this year, and Denver's next year.

It's simply not worth it.

The precident is 1 first and 2 3rd's I havent read yet where Carolina wants 2 #1's.

MOtorboat
02-20-2009, 09:09 AM
The precident is 1 first and 2 3rd's I havent read yet where Carolina wants 2 #1's.


Placing the tag on Peppers theoretically allows the Panthers to trade him for something less than two first-rounders and receive some compensation instead of letting the cornerstone of their defense walk away in free agency. But Peppers has power because no team likely would trade for him without first securing a long-term contract agreement.

It's worded funny, and I read it wrong. I don't really understand the choice of saying "something less than two first-rounders." But I get it now.

Medford Bronco
02-20-2009, 09:15 AM
No too high priced. I would rather Haynesworth as he would help in the 3/4
but feel we cant afford him either

tomjonesrocks
02-20-2009, 09:42 AM
Another wishing well.

The Broncos are almost certainly not on Peppers' list of 4 teams he'd accept a trade to (he only has one acceptable AFC team on his list, apparently--and I think we can be sure that's not the Broncos).

So it doesn't sound like he'd even want to come here to come here--which is a bad start already.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqabyrnrmyTE0ojKXM9Al72xXbzAD96E7EI00

claymore
02-20-2009, 10:07 AM
Another wishing well.

The Broncos are almost certainly not on Peppers' list of 4 teams he'd accept a trade to (he only has one acceptable AFC team on his list, apparently--and I think we can be sure that's not the Broncos).

So it doesn't sound like he'd even want to come here to come here--which is a bad start already.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqabyrnrmyTE0ojKXM9Al72xXbzAD96E7EI00

Why not? He is good freinds with Carmello Anthony, and buisiness partners with him as well. He also stated ..............

Peppers available.

Broncos fans may have noticed how Carolina defensive end Julius Peppers, an impending free agent, was constantly harassing Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler in the fourth quarter.

Peppers has said he wants to play in a 3-4 defense. The Broncos are expected to convert to a 3-4. And Peppers is a friend and business partner of Nuggets star Carmelo Anthony. Could Peppers and Denver be a match?

"I have no idea where I'm going to be at next year," Peppers said. "No clue. But I know Melo. I like Denver. They're not off the list."
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_11660421

Cugel
02-20-2009, 10:43 AM
That's just it Slim. Champ and DJ are the only two locks. But after them its up in the air. I hope that Woodyard, Thomas, Larsen, and Barrett could start, that would make things a little easier in some respects.

I agree. Woodyard and Larsen are really stretches! Their talent is really about equal to Nate Webster's, i.e. there are a lot of fans blathering about them, but when we get to see them in a serious role, that will cool off in a hurry. (Kind of like Nate Webster last pre-season).

There's a reason why they weren't drafted on the first day you know, and a general lack of exciting talent is it.

That means McDaniels & Xanders will be looking for a bunch of FA starters, just NOT the high-priced ones like Peppers & Haynesworth.

That doesn't mean they can't or won't succeed in the NFL, it's just that Broncos fans become familiar with those players and get over-excited by them.

I doubt McDaniels will be satisfied for long with players like Boss Bailey, Spencer Larson, or Woodyard starting on his defense.

Marcus Thomas is a different matter. He COULD become a decent starter at DE in a 3-4 or conceivably even NT (I could be wrong that he can't do it well). But, so far he's been pretty mediocre at best. There's NO evidence he's good enough to be a starter in the NFL, especially learning a new system and playing a new position in a 3-4. MAYBE sums him up nicely.

J. Barett at safety is as ridiculous as those who blithely pencil in Powell at NT when he's spent his rookie year on IR and nobody has a clue if he'll even make the roster! The guy was a little regarded late draft pick who had a few nice plays on defense. That makes him better than McCree or Manuel, that does NOT make him a starter!

Let's not get carried away! Same thing for Jack Williams at CB.

I suppose if either or both are cut in pre-season there'll be lots of whining about that too!

It might be that none of these guys are good enough to do anything but backup, in which case the Broncos need 9 new starters, plus DJ & Champ!

Conclusion: LOTS of MAYBE this and MAYBE that, but NO guys who have been starters in the NFL and succeeded, let alone pro-bowl, or even good starters. The defensive talent on this team is just abysmally low.

Worst Case Scenario -- I don't insist this is true, but it MIGHT be true!

1. None of the DEs can transition successfully to OLB: Dumervil might be too stiff to backpedal (He admits he'd have to "work on my backpedal" to play in a 3-4). Moss proves just as much of a failure at OLB as he was at DE.

2. Marcus Thomas is confirmed as a career backup. Crowder's just a bust and gets cut in the off-season. He winds up fighting Tatum Bell for a job in the phone kiosk!

The Team would need SIX new starters on the front 7, with only DJ Williams sliding inside and playing RILB. In addition the team would need an unknown number of backups, since not all the current scrubs like Bailey & Woodyard are guaranteed to stay past August.

Plus, 1 new starting CB, 1 nickel CB, and 2 new starting safeties, plus 2 backup safeties. That's a need for 3 starters and 3 backups in the secondary.

IN short this team might well have a totally new defense by 2010, with almost NO defensive players remaining from the Shanahan era.

That is really the most probable scenario; that McDaniels will not be satisfied with any of the defensive players and will replace most of them this off-season, and get rid of the rest of them NEXT off-season, leaving only DJ Williams, Champ & possibly Thomas. :coffee:

I hope that doesn't happen of course, but anybody who says it's unlikely doesn't know football! This was THE WORST DEFENSE IN THE NFL last season, bar NONE.

The only worse defenses, KC, the Rams, the Lions, had the excuse that their offenses were equally horrible and left the defenses out on the field for extended periods of time. Denver's didn't have that excuse. They had the #2 ranked offense in football, which meant LOTS of long drives that kept the defense off the field -- just not long enough to keep them off the field the entire game! :coffee:

Kaylore
02-20-2009, 10:48 AM
Sign Peppers as a free agent? Sure if the coaches felt he had a place here. But I say no way to trading two firsts for him. Definitely not worth it.

claymore
02-20-2009, 10:49 AM
Sign Peppers as a free agent? Sure if the coaches felt he had a place here. But I say no way to trading two firsts for him. Definitely not worth it.

Its not 2 firsts.... Where are people getting this from?

Mike
02-20-2009, 10:53 AM
Its not 2 firsts.... Where are people getting this from?

Even if it is a 1 and two 3's or whatever + a heavy loaded contract it is just too much.

Kaylore
02-20-2009, 10:56 AM
Its not 2 firsts.... Where are people getting this from?

Standard for the non-exclusive franchise tag is two first rounders. Exclusive ones can be whatever the Panthers think he's worth.

claymore
02-20-2009, 10:56 AM
Even if it is a 1 and two 3's or whatever + a heavy loaded contract it is just too much.

If we trade our Number one back far enough, we will get another 2nd and another third. So we go into the draft with 2 #2's and a guarenteed baller who has at least 3-5 years left in him.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-20-2009, 10:57 AM
Depends on the asking price. DUH.

Cugel
02-20-2009, 11:21 AM
Why not? He is good freinds with Carmello Anthony, and buisiness partners with him as well. He also stated ..............

The reports by "sources close to Peppers" may simply be wrong. But that changes nothing. Even if he were desperate to come here, he's not going to. :coffee:

Xanders is CERTAINLY not going to trade away two #1 draft picks for Peppers. And he's on record as saying that $16 million is too much to tie up in 1 player. Peppers would cost MORE than that when you include bonus money this season.

In fact, I seriously doubt ANY team will offer more than a 1st and two 3rds (plus swapped picks in the 6th round) for him, which is the same thing that the Vikings offered the Chiefs last year for Jared Allen, who is younger and had more sacks than Peppers the last 2 years.

It's going to be a very UGLY negotiation and neither the Panthers nor Peppers are likely to be happy with the results. The team won't get what they think he's worth (two 1st rounders) and Peppers won't get to play for the team he wants (the Cowboys don't even have a 1st round pick).

Peppers and the Panthers may wind up stuck with each other for another year, with both unhappy.

Denver is well out of this mess. :coffee:

claymore
02-20-2009, 01:09 PM
The reports by "sources close to Peppers" may simply be wrong. But that changes nothing. Even if he were desperate to come here, he's not going to. :coffee:

Xanders is CERTAINLY not going to trade away two #1 draft picks for Peppers. And he's on record as saying that $16 million is too much to tie up in 1 player. Peppers would cost MORE than that when you include bonus money this season.

In fact, I seriously doubt ANY team will offer more than a 1st and two 3rds (plus swapped picks in the 6th round) for him, which is the same thing that the Vikings offered the Chiefs last year for Jared Allen, who is younger and had more sacks than Peppers the last 2 years.

It's going to be a very UGLY negotiation and neither the Panthers nor Peppers are likely to be happy with the results. The team won't get what they think he's worth (two 1st rounders) and Peppers won't get to play for the team he wants (the Cowboys don't even have a 1st round pick).

Peppers and the Panthers may wind up stuck with each other for another year, with both unhappy.

Denver is well out of this mess. :coffee:

Please provide any report that says 2 1st rounders is the asking price.
The only place I have read that is here.

From Peppers mouth..."I have no idea where I'm going to be at next year," Peppers said. "No clue. But I know Melo. I like Denver. They're not off the list."

Like it or not Denver is on that list.

:coffee::coffee::coffee:

claymore
02-20-2009, 01:36 PM
Its not 2 firsts.... Where are people getting this from?

Julius Peppers is a Non exlusive Free agent. This means.....


If the player is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries of last season at his position, or 120 percent of the player’s previous year’s salary, he becomes a “non-exclusive” franchise player and can negotiate with other clubs. His old club can match a new club's offer, or receive two first-round draft choices if it decides not to match. The signing period for non-exclusive franchise players to sign with new clubs is March 3 through November 9


An "exclusive" franchise player -- not free to sign with another club -- is offered a minimum of the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of April 16, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater.

So this tells me Carolina wants to move him. But.... They know, we know etc... that they will not get 2 first round picks for Peppers.

They will get somewhere in the middle. I say trade Champ and a second.

Cugel
02-20-2009, 01:56 PM
Please provide any report that says 2 1st rounders is the asking price.
The only place I have read that is here.

That's the price a team MUST pay if they sign Peppers after the Panthers have designated him as a franchise player. Those restrictions are written into the league rules. The Panthers must offer Peppers a contract that is the average of the top 5 players at his position, which comes to around $16 million.

The Chiefs did this with Jared Allen last year, but they NEGOTIATED a deal with the Vikings calling for LESS than 2 first round picks. Instead they received ONE first rounder, plus TWO third rounders, Plus the teams swapped picks in the 6th round.

But, if a team signs a "non-exclusive franchise player" they have to give up TWO #1 picks.

If you're too lazy to go on NFL.com and read the rules I'm not going to bother. But, if you don't know the rules don't complain to me that it's "unsubstantiated" or some other rubbish! :coffee:


From Peppers mouth..."I have no idea where I'm going to be at next year," Peppers said. "No clue. But I know Melo. I like Denver. They're not off the list."

Like it or not Denver is on that list.

You don't know that at all! :coffee: The OTHER source cited in this very thread said that he will ONLY accept a trade to four teams: three of which are NFC teams, and one of which is Dallas. That's all that is known. Some off-hand remark made BEFORE the FA period means nothing.

In fact the published reports from some unknown "source close to Peppers" probably mean nothing too.

All that is certain is that Brian Xanders, the Broncos GM is on record that $16 million is TOO MUCH to allocate to any one player and "One person can't take a huge burden of the existing framework and salary cap," Xanders said. "We'll try to spread it around and figure it out that way." (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11718893)

So, Xanders is on record REJECTING the very kind of contract Peppers is demanding. Now, does that sound like the Broncos are going to be interested in signing him, even if he were an unrestricted FA? Much less trading at LEAST 1 first rounder, and probably at LEAST 2 3rd round picks as well?

Anyone who thinks the Broncos are going to actively try and sign Julius Peppers is in for disappointment. That's all. :coffee:

claymore
02-20-2009, 01:59 PM
That's the price a team MUST pay if they sign Peppers after the Panthers have designated him as a franchise player. Those restrictions are written into the league rules. The Panthers must offer Peppers a contract that is the average of the top 5 players at his position, which comes to around $16 million.

The Chiefs did this with Jared Allen last year, but they NEGOTIATED a deal with the Vikings calling for LESS than 2 first round picks. Instead they received ONE first rounder, plus TWO third rounders, Plus the teams swapped picks in the 6th round.

But, if a team signs a "non-exclusive franchise player" they have to give up TWO #1 picks.

If you're too lazy to go on NFL.com and read the rules I'm not going to bother. But, if you don't know the rules don't complain to me that it's "unsubstantiated" or some other rubbish! :coffee:



You don't know that at all! :coffee: The OTHER source cited in this very thread said that he will ONLY accept a trade to four teams: three of which are NFC teams, and one of which is Dallas. That's all that is known. Some off-hand remark made BEFORE the FA period means nothing.

In fact the published reports from some unknown "source close to Peppers" probably mean nothing too.

All that is certain is that Brian Xanders, the Broncos GM is on record that $16 million is TOO MUCH to allocate to any one player and "One person can't take a huge burden of the existing framework and salary cap," Xanders said. "We'll try to spread it around and figure it out that way." (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11718893)

So, Xanders is on record REJECTING the very kind of contract Peppers is demanding. Now, does that sound like the Broncos are going to be interested in signing him, even if he were an unrestricted FA? Much less trading at LEAST 1 first rounder, and probably at LEAST 2 3rd round picks as well.

Read my post above this. And If Xanders will have to spend 16 millilon dollars on our 1st round pick this year. He was talking about Robertson.

Cugel
02-20-2009, 02:10 PM
Read my post above this. And If Xanders will have to spend 16 millilon dollars on our 1st round pick this year. He was talking about Robertson.

Of course he was talking about Robertson. But, he was asked he could justify paying a player $16 million for a season and he said NO! That's the quote. He's NOT talking about JUST Robertson, and they're going to go out and spend wildly for other players. Peppers will get MORE than that, and probably MUCH more, in the range of perhaps $20-25 million in salary and guarantees for 2009.

And Xanders is on record saying that he won't do that. That $16 million is too much to tie up in one player for a season.

Xanders has an entire defensive ROSTER to rebuild and can't allocate too much money to any one player. Plus, they're paying Mike Shanahan $7 million and his fired coaches several more million $ for this season. Until just this month when Jim Bates signed with the Bucs they were going to have to pay HIM more than $1 million for the season and he's been fired for well over a year now. While this doesn't count against the salary cap, it DOES come out of Pat Bowlen's check-book and HE counts it you can bet!

Then there's the dead cap space taken up by FA busts like Koutivides, Keary Colbert and Travis Henry, etc.

Of course, Denver is NOT going to go beserk in signing the richest FAs and trade away their draft picks in addition. That would be ludicrous and they're just not going to do it.

I stand by what I said. Anybody who thinks Peppers is coming here is just flat wrong and will be disappointed when Denver doesn't make a move to get him! :coffee:

claymore
02-20-2009, 02:21 PM
Of course he was talking about Robertson. But, he was asked he could justify paying a player $16 million for a season and he said NO! That's the quote.

He has an entire defensive ROSTER to rebuild and can't allocate too much money to any one player. Plus, they're paying Mike Shanahan $7 million and his fired coaches several more million $ for this season. Until just this month when Jim Bates signed with the Bucs they were going to have to pay HIM more than $1 million for the season and he's been fired for well over a year now.

Then there's the dead cap space taken up by FA busts like Koutivides, Keary Colbert and Travis Henry, etc.

Of course, Denver is NOT going to go beserk in signing the richest FAs and trade away their draft picks in addition. That would be ludicrous and they're just not going to do it.

I stand by what I said. Anybody who thinks Peppers is coming here is just flat wrong and will be disappointed when Denver doesn't make a move to get him! :coffee:
No one is going to pay Peppers 16 million unless its Carolina. I have no idea why you keep saying that.

Anyone who says we are signing Peppers is just flat out guessing. Just like anyone who says we are not going to sign him is flat out guessing.

Trading back in the first, and trading the pick away is more of a sure thing than drafting at #12.

We are going to have close to 50 million under the cap. If we dont sign a big name free agent, I would be shocked.