Im sorry but Elway has blown it twice this year as a GM

[VonSackemMiller]

I give him credit for having a good draft but his moves this season has been terrible, First of all Kyle Orton shoulda been sitting his ass on the bench of the broncos for the rest of the season, 2nd everybody knew the chiefs needed a Qb since cassell was down so why wouldnt they had claimed orton? 3rd was giving your division rival a QB (below average) QB but still giving them a Qb they can atleast do a couple things with a good front office decision over saving 2 million? I think not. theres noway tyler palko has even 2-3 completions and changes field position for KC like orton did. Orton might not have did anything but he did get them out of holes buried deep in there own territory to get some nice punts off.


The next **** up was trading Brandon Lloyd, Why on earth would we trade Brandon Lloyd? He didnt demand a trade the broncos put him on the block because they figured he wouldnt be happy. Which is bullshit because last year if you remember when tebow played the last 3 games him and Lloyd was connecting all the time for touchdowns too. So we get rid of tebows number one WR who actually gets open, who actually catches everything, who goes up and gets those poorly thrown balls that orton used to throw also, Who scores touchdowns for a 5th round pick? Boy that whopping 5th round pick better turn into gold. Because being that we started winning games and now in the playoffs its looking like we could use Lloyd, Id much rather tebow throwing to Lloyd than any WR on our team right now. Not saying they wont develope but the right now we could use lloyd.

So yeah elway blew it, Palko should have been starting for the cHiefs and Brandon Lloyd should still be catching touchdown passes from tebow like he did the last 3 games last year. Nothing like developing your young QB like trading away his best legit weapon huh? Or was elway ever intending on developing tebow? kind of seems like he wanted tebow to fail vs letting tebow fail on his own. smh.

Go head defend this shit.

Ill give the rams back there lousy 5th round pick for brandon lloyd for these playoffs, brandon lloyd in st louis making the same amazing big time plays he was making here in denver. The broncos should have probably gave lloyd an extension to be honest.

[Northman]

Brandon Lloyd did ask for a trade.

[Chef Zambini]

both lloyd and orton were moved for 1 reason and one reason only...

TO SAVE MONEY !
ELWAY did NOT expect to win THIS season! It was obviouis from the start that the prime objectiver was to save the owner some coin in this first year.
why else would the TRY to trade away the guy they thought was their BEST QB before the start of the season?
FOX?
probably the cheapest HC hire out there and to be honest, a great value.
the primary mandate for EFX was to save some money in 2011.
they sdaved over 2 million dollars by taking oron off their bench.
Thats ALL the orton deal was about, it had nothing to do with football.

[VonSackemMiller]

Brandon Lloyd did ask for a trade.

No he didnt. Why would Lloyd demand a trade? After saying all off season hes buying into tebow, how he couldnt wait to get back to work with tebow. lloyd problem came when the fans were dogging orton to get tebow in the game and then benching orton. so of course he was a bit upset but that was mainly because of the fans and how they treated orton,

if tebow starts the year the starter then lloyd would have had nothing to side with. just another front office **** up.


So cut the shit lloyd never demanded a trade. Your making shit up. Elway got rid of Lloyd because he wanted tebow to fail and draft luck. period. Your having a hard time imagining that elway would actually want his beloved broncos to lose games huh? lmao too bad its obvious that was the case. did you see elways face when we beat the jets? His facial expression and phony clapping said it all.

[Chef Zambini]

... the second objective was to give TT a chance to demonstrate his incompetence so that EFX could ship him out too and diminish the huge PR nightmare that would follow.

THEY, EFX, put him out there to FAIL !
see the LIONS game for details !

when the media (john lynch and steve young especially ) chastized the bronco coachiung staff for their FAILURE to give timmy a real offernse to suit his "talent", EFX folded inder the pressure, figuring that TT would still be a loser regardless.

EFX had not counted on the 6 game pocket full of miracles!

But eventually, the NFL caught up to the tebow experiment and EFX ended up with the intended results,
losing due to QB incompetence.

So now EFX is hoping that TT will have a fourth straight humiliating, horrendous performance and they can be done with him.

My only hope is that the JAGS still want timmy after he gets humiliated by the steelers.

[VonSackemMiller]

I think this north guy is thinking of brandon marshall. hes the only brandon who demanded a trade

[Northman]

I think this north guy is thinking of brandon marshall. hes the only brandon who demanded a trade

Ooops, you just got owned again.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19132999


Q: Why did Brandon Lloyd (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19132999#)​ want to be traded? And why does fellow wide receiver Eddie Royal (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19132999#)​ want to follow him out of Denver?


A: Lloyd's request for a trade — he was dealt Monday to the Rams — essentially came because the Broncos will be relying more on their running game and on shorter throws in their passing game now that Tim Tebow is the 1-4 team's starting quarterback. Lloyd's game is down-the-field routes. Also, Lloyd will be an unrestricted free agent after the season.

[Chef Zambini]

No he didnt. Why would Lloyd demand a trade? After saying all off season hes buying into tebow, how he couldnt wait to get back to work with tebow. lloyd problem came when the fans were dogging orton to get tebow in the game and then benching orton. so of course he was a bit upset but that was mainly because of the fans and how they treated orton,

if tebow starts the year the starter then lloyd would have had nothing to side with. just another front office **** up.


So cut the shit lloyd never demanded a trade. Your making shit up. Elway got rid of Lloyd because he wanted tebow to fail and draft luck. period. Your having a hard time imagining that elway would actually want his beloved broncos to lose games huh? lmao too bad its obvious that was the case. did you see elways face when we beat the jets? His facial expression and phony clapping said it all.BINGO !
elway was miserable after each bronco miracle victory.

[chazoe60]

Llyod did demand a trade. Get your head out dude.

[Northman]

What a bunch of idiots. lmao

[VonSackemMiller]

Ooops, you just got owned again.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19132999

brandon lloyd said himself he never asked for a trade. and if he did why didnt eddie royal follow? I guess royals more of a run blocker than lloyd huh? You show a link to a fan asking somebody a question as proof? dude just put me on ignore your getting killed here.

[MOtorboat]

brandon lloyd said himself he never asked for a trade. and if he did why didnt eddie royal follow? I guess royals more of a run blocker than lloyd huh? You show a link to a fan asking somebody a question as proof? dude just put me on ignore your getting killed here.

:pound:

:teboi:

[VonSackemMiller]

And even IF lloyd demanded a trade why on earth would you trade him? if you planned on winning games? Lloyd was only mad that orton got benched and the fans was making his good buddy orton life hell in denver. period. the broncos should not have traded Lloyd either way. it wasnt a good football decision. period.

[VonSackemMiller]

I mean its not like lloyd had room to half ass it on the field during a contract year. ELWAY BLEW IT.

[missingnumber7]

Lloyd is a douchebag worthless piece of crap. At least we got some thing for him. How many good seasons did he have? He is AT BEST a low #2 receiver.

[MOtorboat]

Lloyd requested a trade and wore out his welcome, just like he's done with every team he has ever played for.

And yes, they wanted whatever they could get out of him and saved some money in the process.

[Northman]

And even IF lloyd demanded a trade why on earth would you trade him? if you planned on winning games? Lloyd was only mad that orton got benched and the fans was making his good buddy orton life hell in denver. period. the broncos should not have traded Lloyd either way. it wasnt a good football decision. period.

In that case they should of never traded Marshall and Cutler.

[VonSackemMiller]

You damn right we shouldnt have traded cutler and brandon marshall. Well maybe brandon marshall but not cutler. If i was pat bowlen id told cutler and mcdaniels to shut the hell up and get to work. period.

[threefolddead]

The receivers we have now are getting open and Tebow can't hit them so what difference does it make if we have Lloyd or not? We have a damn good core of receivers we just have a half ass QB

[VonSackemMiller]

He had no problem hitting open recievers vs the vikes, bears, patriots for a half, hit lloyd last year early and often.....whoops you failed

[Shazam!]

Oh God.

Elway's 1st year running the show has been a decent one.

He is looking at the big picture here.

He DID let Lloyd go for too little, I'd give that.

All would've been deemed catastrophic had Denver NOT made the Playoffs because the KC loss would've magnified letting Orton go had Oakland not fell.

What will be interesting is viewing which QB he goes after in the Draft. No way they don't spend a 1st or 2nd on a QB.

[Mike]

He had no problem hitting open recievers vs the vikes, bears, patriots for a half, hit lloyd last year early and often.....whoops you failed

He can hit receivers when they are really open. He is hesitant to throw into tight coverage and is failing to anticipate when a receiver will be open showing either he doesn't trust himself or the receiver. I also am beginning to wonder if we don't see a lot of WR timing type routes for those reasons.

[VonSackemMiller]

Oh God.

Elway's 1st year running the show has been a decent one.

He is looking at the big picture here.

He DID let Lloyd go for too little, I'd give that.

All would've been deemed catastrophic had Denver NOT made the Playoffs because the KC loss would've magnified letting Orton go had Oakland not fell.

What will be interesting is viewing which QB he goes after in the Draft. No way they don't spend a 1st or 2nd on a QB.

We should just take the Qb from Oklahoma state who wont get draft too high because hes already 26 years old from playing baseball but he has a good arm. would be a good guy to come in and compete for the job with tebow. IMO, Will be had in the later rounds.

[Chef Zambini]

Oh God.

Elway's 1st year running the show has been a decent one.

He is looking at the big picture here.

He DID let Lloyd go for too little, I'd give that.

All would've been deemed catastrophic had Denver NOT made the Playoffs because the KC loss would've magnified letting Orton go had Oakland not fell.

What will be interesting is viewing which QB he goes after in the Draft. No way they don't spend a 1st or 2nd on a QB.

ame nbrother, amen.
kellen moore in the 4th or 5th would be an upgrade over what we have now ! KM could be the next drew brees,
just a half inch shorter.
get him some lifts ! back him up 3 more yards, ke;llen moore can at least read defenses and make accurate throws.

[Chef Zambini]

We should just take the Qb from Oklahoma state who wont get draft too high because hes already 26 years old from playing baseball but he has a good arm. would be a good guy to come in and compete for the job with tebow. IMO, Will be had in the later rounds.tebow is out the door if we draft a QB ! EFX does not want to go thru this same shit next season ! They set up timmy to fail! they want a legitimate NFL QB, not this PR nightmare !

[VonSackemMiller]

He can hit receivers when they are really open. He is hesitant to throw into tight coverage and is failing to anticipate when a receiver will be open showing either he doesn't trust himself or the receiver. I also am beginning to wonder if we don't see a lot of WR timing type routes for those reasons.

I want recievers that get open. Brandon Lloyd= got open for tebow often in his 3 starts last year. short stuff, deep stuff, he was open he was creating big time seperation too. I just sit back and watch football games and i see teams with these great wideouts being open faithfully by 1-2-3 steps and get envious. then i watch our WRs and there open by a half of step and people think thats the type of windows you want your qb throwing in everytime. Those are throws that rodgers, brady, manning, brees are capable of making but if they had to absolutely throw into that tight of a window all the time theyd have horrible seasons and more horrible games than good games. Hell there Gm wouldnt even bring them in great targets if it was all about putting the ball in tight places.

As far as timing routes go we dont have the Qb or WR or coaches to even come up with those type of plays right now so i dont expect too many beatiful timing routes and throws

[VonSackemMiller]

tebow is out the door if we draft a QB ! EFX does not want to go thru this same shit next season ! They set up timmy to fail! they want a legitimate NFL QB, not this PR nightmare !

It wont be a PR nightmare, Because most of the fans have already turned on tebow which is what elway wanted.

[Chef Zambini]

The receivers we have now are getting open and Tebow can't hit them so what difference does it make if we have Lloyd or not? We have a damn good core of receivers we just have a half ass QByou are wrong.
TEBOW has a full buttocks (just ask beef)
what he LACKS is a legitimate NFL passing arm and the ability to read defenses.
He lacks a pass first mentality.
His instinct to run first overpowers everything he has tried to learn in 2 years in the NFL and he will NEVER be anything more than a glorified fullback.

[vandammage13]

Ooops, you just got owned again.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19132999


Q: Why did Brandon Lloyd​ want to be traded? And why does fellow wide receiver Eddie Royal​ want to follow him out of Denver?


A: Lloyd's request for a trade — he was dealt Monday to the Rams — essentially came because the Broncos will be relying more on their running game and on shorter throws in their passing game now that Tim Tebow is the 1-4 team's starting quarterback. Lloyd's game is down-the-field routes. Also, Lloyd will be an unrestricted free agent after the season.

Seems kind of funny reading this now, considering the short passing game is virtually non-existent in this offense...It's either 15+yards down the field or nothing...Lloyd might have actually excelled in this offense.

[Northman]

Seems kind of funny reading this now, considering the short passing game is virtually non-existent in this offense...It's either 15+yards down the field or nothing...Lloyd might have actually excelled in this offense.

Doesnt matter if he would of flourished or not. He just didnt want to be here when the QB is only throwing 20 passes a game.

[VonSackemMiller]

Seems kind of funny reading this now, considering the short passing game is virtually non-existent in this offense...It's either 15+yards down the field or nothing...Lloyd might have actually excelled in this offense.

Lloyd woulda been the guy we targeted deep. atleast he goes up and gets badly thrown balls. he lays out for balls. he gets open by 2-3 steps. he catches everything. People are forgetting how great lloyd was for our broncos. only to get dumped for a 5th round pick and to help tebow fail. elway said hey timmy go out there and prove you can play with nobodys

[Timmy!]

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/attachments/general-sportbikes/198751d1270584007-tall-rider-looking-first-sport-bike-not..shit.again.jpg

[Traveler]

So cut the shit lloyd never demanded a trade. Your making shit up. Elway got rid of Lloyd because he wanted tebow to fail and draft luck. period.

Really?

Now who's making shit up? Prove to everyone how you know Elway wanted Tebow to fail.

[VonSackemMiller]

Really?

Now who's making shit up? Prove to everyone how you know Elway wanted Tebow to fail.

Hey lay on your back and bench press 200 pounds with one hand tied behind you back. thats basically what elway made tebow do. I can almost guarantee lloyd wouldnt have been mad about playing with tebow because he liked tebow, he didnt like how the fans treated orton, which was very harsh so lloyd got mad. lloyd never once asked for the trade though. every network reporting the story NEVER said lloyd demanded a trade. but every network said the same thing (its kind of hard to give tebow the job and then give his best WR away and hope that he succeeds... Elway was going to ride it out with orton @ 1-4 because he knew wed finish 2-14 and have a chance to get luck or barkley, Okay lets insert tebow because the fans are demanding to see tebow start but I (elway) am going to take away his best weapon, His best play maker. if that aint setting up a QB to fail then i dont know what is.

[VonSackemMiller]

Almost every analyst has said Elway never even gave tebow a chance, Never believed in tebow from day one, Never wanted Tebow from day one, The only thing that was on elways mind was having a shot at getting luck.

[Northman]

Almost every analyst has said Elway never even gave tebow a chance, Never believed in tebow from day one, Never wanted Tebow from day one, The only thing that was on elways mind was having a shot at getting luck.

If thats the case they would of just stayed with Orton.

[MOtorboat]

:rolleyes:

[threefolddead]

He had no problem hitting open recievers vs the vikes, bears, patriots for a half, hit lloyd last year early and often.....whoops you failed

The whole year he has had wide open guys but he can't get off his reads to hit them with the ball. Now your tellin me how if Lloyd was here, he would make Tebow a better QB? Would he come off his reads better because Lloyd is here? Would he throw a better ball simply because Lloyd is here? Would he have better accuracy if Lloyd was here? Lloyd is not going to make Tebow into a real QB, Lloyd wanted out of Denver, and we have a good core of receivers anyway.

[VonSackemMiller]

If thats the case they would of just stayed with Orton.

if they had stayed with orton then the fans wouldnt have came to the games. do you think elway wanted 30 40 thousand empty seats out there? hell no thats bad for business son, Nobody would have showed up to watch th ebroncos go 2-14.

[Northman]

if they had stayed with orton then the fans wouldnt have came to the games. do you think elway wanted 30 40 thousand empty seats out there? hell no thats bad for business son, Nobody would have showed up to watch th ebroncos go 2-14.

They did for a 4-12 team so no, your completely incorrect as usual.

[vandammage13]

Doesnt matter if he would of flourished or not. He just didnt want to be here when the QB is only throwing 20 passes a game.

I get that...Just saying if he would have had the right attitude about it then things might have worked out for him here.

You figure he would have gotten the majority of those targets, and we might have actually thrown the ball more since we would have had a legitimate #1 WR.

[rcsodak]

Ooops, you just got owned again.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19132999

Too bad the "short passing game" never materialized.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[VonSackemMiller]

They did for a 4-12 team so no, your completely incorrect as usual.

that was ortons first horirble year. you think the fans was going to sit back and watch orton go 2-14 2 years in a row dude? lol not with tebow on the bench. sorry

[rcsodak]

Lloyd is a douchebag worthless piece of crap. At least we got some thing for him. How many good seasons did he have? He is AT BEST a low #2 receiver.
His stats say otherwise. And said his talent is finally being utilized.

Mcaffrey wasnt much until his talents were better utilized in denver. It happens.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[rcsodak]

Oh God.

Elway's 1st year running the show has been a decent one.

He is looking at the big picture here.

He DID let Lloyd go for too little, I'd give that.

All would've been deemed catastrophic had Denver NOT made the Playoffs because the KC loss would've magnified letting Orton go had Oakland not fell.

What will be interesting is viewing which QB he goes after in the Draft. No way they don't spend a 1st or 2nd on a QB.
How about weeden? 28yrs old, but a damn good passer. He could surely be a 5yr starter while they get the rest of the team caught up.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[rcsodak]

ame nbrother, amen.
kellen moore in the 4th or 5th would be an upgrade over what we have now ! KM could be the next drew brees,
just a half inch shorter.
get him some lifts ! back him up 3 more yards, ke;llen moore can at least read defenses and make accurate throws.

Moore is accurate, but thats it.
Buddy of mine lives in boise and is a big broncos fan. He says the OL would have to have 5ProBowlers to save his slow ass, and he doesnt have the strongest of arms.
Picture colt mccoy in a wheelchair.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[rcsodak]

I want recievers that get open. Brandon Lloyd= got open for tebow often in his 3 starts last year. short stuff, deep stuff, he was open he was creating big time seperation too. I just sit back and watch football games and i see teams with these great wideouts being open faithfully by 1-2-3 steps and get envious. then i watch our WRs and there open by a half of step and people think thats the type of windows you want your qb throwing in everytime. Those are throws that rodgers, brady, manning, brees are capable of making but if they had to absolutely throw into that tight of a window all the time theyd have horrible seasons and more horrible games than good games. Hell there Gm wouldnt even bring them in great targets if it was all about putting the ball in tight places.

As far as timing routes go we dont have the Qb or WR or coaches to even come up with those type of plays right now so i dont expect too many beatiful timing routes and throws

Have you ever watched the wr's run? They NEVER turn their heads back for the pass, unless theyre the intended receiver. Theyre running dummy routes.
Everytime i see that i want to throw something at my tv.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Traveler]

Hey lay on your back and bench press 200 pounds with one hand tied behind you back. thats basically what elway made tebow do. I can almost guarantee lloyd wouldnt have been mad about playing with tebow because he liked tebow, he didnt like how the fans treated orton, which was very harsh so lloyd got mad. lloyd never once asked for the trade though. every network reporting the story NEVER said lloyd demanded a trade. but every network said the same thing (its kind of hard to give tebow the job and then give his best WR away and hope that he succeeds... Elway was going to ride it out with orton @ 1-4 because he knew wed finish 2-14 and have a chance to get luck or barkley, Okay lets insert tebow because the fans are demanding to see tebow start but I (elway) am going to take away his best weapon, His best play maker. if that aint setting up a QB to fail then i dont know what is.

So Lloyd got butt hurt because fans disliked Orton?

Lloyd was always leery of Tebow even though mentioned he'd been preparing himself to play with Tebow during the offseason. No denying Lloyd was a good receiver for us, but he saw the writing on the wall when they changed to offense to suit Tebow's skillset.

Let me be clear, in no way am I saying Lloyd was a bad person or player. Having said that Lloyd wanted catch passes and he saw that wouldn't be the case with Tebow at the helm.

Hell, the team actually had talks about a contract extention, but nothing matrialized, thus precipitating his trade to STL.


Multiple factors have pushed Lloyd to the trading block, according to the sources.

One, he is a free agent after this season, and although the Broncos and Lloyd have briefly discussed a contract extension, nothing is close to materializing.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19108351

Elway and Fox even stated they wanted to begin developing our younger receivers, so a conscious decision was made by EFX to begin developing our younger players by getting them more opportunities to play.

If in your world, this is proof for your argument that Elway wanted/setup Tebow to fail, all I can say is WOW!

[GEM]

Lloyd came out and said he'd follow McD whereever he goes, because McD is the only one that knows how to use him.

Face it Lloyd...you just aren't that good. :laugh:

5 different teams now and 1 decent season. Shut yo mouth already.

[VonSackemMiller]

Lloyd woulda been the focal point of our passing game though lol.

[chazoe60]

The Elway bashers are so ******* stupid. S T F U with this crap it makes you look so ignorant.

[Northman]

Marshall still outperformed Lloyd yet again. This behind 2-3 different QB's this year.

[chazoe60]

I like Tebow but I feel sorry for whatever fanbase he's playing for next season because they will get overrun by morons.

[TXBRONC]

He can hit receivers when they are really open. He is hesitant to throw into tight coverage and is failing to anticipate when a receiver will be open showing either he doesn't trust himself or the receiver. I also am beginning to wonder if we don't see a lot of WR timing type routes for those reasons.

I listened to Eric Goodman this morning on Mile High Sports and he made he made basically the same point. Tebow doesn't have the confidence to throw to a spot.

[VonSackemMiller]

Have you ever watched the wr's run? They NEVER turn their heads back for the pass, unless theyre the intended receiver. Theyre running dummy routes.
Everytime i see that i want to throw something at my tv.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

eric Mangini said teams disrespect our WRs by playing man on man all day long with no help over the top. He even broke it down on film.

Did you see what steve smith said to sean payton the other day for having his corner try to guard him one on one with no help over the top like teams are playing our WRs? lol.

Its sad that teams are disrespecting our WRs and its nothing they can do about it.

[Northman]

I listened to Eric Goodman this morning on Mile High Sports and he made he made basically the same point. Tebow doesn't have the confidence to throw to a spot.

The kid just isnt very good. By this point he should be making strides and improvement, not regressing.

[Nomad]

I like Tebow but I feel sorry for whatever fanbase he's playing for next season because they will get overrun by morons.

Get ready for at least another year then BRONCO fans! :lol:

If Tebow can fix his problems and become a great QB......I can tolerate his followers. I know it's a pipedream right now by the looks of things but we'll see.

[Northman]

Get ready for at least another year then BRONCO fans!

If Tebow can fix his problems and become a great QB......I can tolerate his followers. I know it's a pipedream right now by the looks of things but we'll see.

His followers are complete morons. Its really quite sad actually.

[Elevation inc]

The receivers we have now are getting open and Tebow can't hit them so what difference does it make if we have Lloyd or not? We have a damn good core of receivers we just have a half ass QB

a damn good core of WR's????? holy shit this is insane now....royal gives up on half his routes, drops balls like there hot potatoes and gets owned by jams at the line at least every other play, his only worthwhile attribute as a bronco right now is punt returning, Decker god bless him has decided to have stone hands lately.....and DT well he is just getting back to good form. Willis is a scrub WR dropping balls lately to. we have far from what i consider a good WR core.....a good core......thats the giants/pitt/cincy/Balt/NE thats 5 current playoff teams in the AFC with us that have a insanely better WR core than we do.......our WR core is more like St louis...we have a borderline #1 in DT and a average WR in decker thats it, royal and willis suck.....


Tebow played like crap these last 3 weeks but for some reason people belive our Wr's OL and OC are down right badass or something

we have 3 offensive players that can hold there heads high the last 3 weeks, thats Mcghaee/DT/and belive it or not Franklin(who has been downright lethal and dominant as a run blocker on runs to his side), and he happens to be giving up less pressure and penalties than clady, walton or beadles for christs sakes the last 3 weeks....

our whole offense sucks right now from our OC to our QB to our OL to our TE's and yes our wack WR's included, 3 players on a 11 player offense have actually executed there jobs for the most part the last 3 weeks....THATS IT!!!!!.....thats why our offense sucks it aint just tebow, just like it aint the wr's only either.....we have 3 players doing there jobs and eight not.....thats why our offense sucks get a clue people.....

the tebow fanbois and the tebow haters need a serious grip on reality cause you all being dooshes.......

[VonSackemMiller]

The Elway bashers are so ******* stupid. S T F U with this crap it makes you look so ignorant.

soooo your saying

1. it was okay for elway to hand the chiefs orton instead of having palko play th ebroncos week 17?

2. Elways not wrong for wanting to tank the season for his favorite college player?

3. He was right to trade a player we could clearly use in the playoffs right now?


Elways is not the golden boy player anymore hes making decisions that will effect this team. im calling him out. **** that.

[Nomad]

His followers are complete morons. Its really quite sad actually.

I agree and it's too bad for Tebow. I wonder what clicks in their heads to become so extreme.

[VonSackemMiller]

eric mangini just broke down some of our game vs KC, he showed how the corners were glued to our wideouts most the time in MAN TO MAN COVERAGE. i see crux beat double coverage for 9 catches 160 yards. if you play a WR man on man bump and run its almost disrespectful to a WR whose any good. but yet teams have decided were going to play denvers WRs man on man allday long because we dont believe they can beat us over the top.

and wheres the bunch reciever sets? Eric mangini hit everything on the head. He said tebow can make all the throws but hes not going to be the guy who throws WRs open who have guys glued all over them like KC did. Our WRs are being disrespected as mangini said! being disrespected because they aint shit on a consistant basis lol. THANK YOU COACH. whose objective and critical of tebow.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

No he didnt. Why would Lloyd demand a trade? After saying all off season hes buying into tebow, how he couldnt wait to get back to work with tebow. lloyd problem came when the fans were dogging orton to get tebow in the game and then benching orton. so of course he was a bit upset but that was mainly because of the fans and how they treated orton,

if tebow starts the year the starter then lloyd would have had nothing to side with. just another front office **** up.


So cut the shit lloyd never demanded a trade. Your making shit up. Elway got rid of Lloyd because he wanted tebow to fail and draft luck. period. Your having a hard time imagining that elway would actually want his beloved broncos to lose games huh? lmao too bad its obvious that was the case. did you see elways face when we beat the jets? His facial expression and phony clapping said it all.

FROM ARTICLE -


Lloyd, Royal and Kyle Orton have all asked for trades in the past three months. So far, none of them have been dealt.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19126114

[Northman]

FROM ARTICLE -



http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19126114

More complete ownage.

[TXBRONC]

Oh God.

Elway's 1st year running the show has been a decent one.

He is looking at the big picture here.

He DID let Lloyd go for too little, I'd give that.

All would've been deemed catastrophic had Denver NOT made the Playoffs because the KC loss would've magnified letting Orton go had Oakland not fell.

What will be interesting is viewing which QB he goes after in the Draft. No way they don't spend a 1st or 2nd on a QB.

Since we don't know the details I thinks very hard say that Elway could have gotten more for Lloyd. As it's been pointed he's had all of one really good season. Also he comes with well earned reputation of wearing out his welcome wherever he goes.

Elway's job is to look at the big picture.

[Nomad]

More complete ownage.

He definitely can't mess with Carol because I believe she has a red phone to Dove Valley:listen::D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ANOTHER ARTICLE -


Q: Why did Brandon Lloyd​ want to be traded? And why does fellow wide receiver Eddie Royal​ want to follow him out of Denver?

A: Lloyd's request for a trade — he was dealt Monday to the Rams — essentially came because the Broncos will be relying more on their running game and on shorter throws in their passing game now that Tim Tebow is the 1-4 team's starting quarterback. Lloyd's game is down-the-field routes. Also, Lloyd will be an unrestricted free agent after the season.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19132999

[chazoe60]

a damn good core of WR's????? holy shit this is insane now....royal gives up on half his routes, drops balls like there hot potatoes and gets owned by jams at the libne at least every other play, his only worthwhile attribute as a bronco right now is punt returning, Decker god bless him has decided to have stone hands lately.....and DT well he is just getting back to good form. Willis is a scrub WR dropping balls lately to.


Tebow played like crap these last 3 weeks but for some reason people belive our Wr's OL and OC are down right badass or something

we have 3 offensive players that can hold there heads high the last 3 weeks, thats Mcghaee/DT/and belive it or not Franklin(who has been downright lethal and dominant as a run blocker on runs to his side, and he happens to be giving up less pressure and penalties than clady for christs sakes the last 4 weeks....

our whole offense sucks right now from our OC to our QB to our OL to our TE's and yes our wack WR's included, 3 players on a 11 player offense have actually executed there jobs for the most part the last 3 weeks....THATS IT!!!!!.....thats why our offense sucks it aint just tebow, just like it ain the wr's only either.....we have 3 players doing there jobs and eight not.....thats why our offense sucks get a clue people.....


I agree with a lot of this. Tebow has looked horrible the last few weeks but our receivers have been pretty shitty for a while now. Some of it looks like they are just confused. They don't know what to do when Tebow holds the ball for ten seconds, some of that is obviously on Tebow but some is on them too. Also, the drops are crazy.

One play in the last game that just pissed me off was the double move route along the sidelines to Royal. It was actually a well thrown ball but right after the first move Eddie slows down to almost a jog so the pass ends up looking overthrown but really it was Eddie's fault.

Now, with that said we can't progress to the next step as a franchise without either: major growth from Tebow as a QB or finding a competent NFL QB.

Sorry but that's just the truth. Tebow has a long way to go. Accuracy and anticipation are major problems for Tebow right now and if he can't improve those two things drastically then we have to go a different route.

[Elevation inc]

Marshall still outperformed Lloyd yet again. This behind 2-3 different QB's this year.

um lloyd also had 5 different qb's this year 2 of them couldnt hit the broad side of a barn in denver while he was here in orton and tebow..... but he has actually been donwright good in st louis as their number 1 in what has essentially been a 9 game season playing for bradford, then feely, then kellen clemens and he still avg 70 yds and a 1 td per game, god i wish we still had that production here.


people can think what they want about lloyd and his attitude or whatever but the guy balled in denver and is still balling out of denver as well......we havent seen hands like that in denver in a decade.......

Marshall also dropped a ton of balls yet again this year BTW.....


maybe statiscally marshall had a better year overall but he also didnt have orton who was horrible through a 1-4 start, tebow who was horrible for 2 games, kellen clemens and AJ feely throwing him the ball like lloyd did....

[Traveler]

I agree with a lot of this. Tebow has looked horrible the last few weeks but our receivers have been pretty shitty for a while now. Some of it looks like they are just confused. They don't know what to do when Tebow holds the ball for ten seconds, some of that is obviously on Tebow but some is on them too. Also, the drops are crazy.

One play in the last game that just pissed me off was the double move route along the sidelines to Royal. It was actually a well thrown ball but right after the first move Eddie slows down to almost a jog so the pass ends up looking overthrown but really it was Eddie's fault.

Now, with that said we can't progress to the next step as a franchise without either: major growth from Tebow as a QB or finding a competent NFL QB.

Sorry but that's just the truth. Tebow has a long way to go. Accuracy and anticipation are major problems for Tebow right now and if he can't improve those two things drastically then we have to go a different route.

How long is everyone willing to wait to see if Tebow will get better?

[Northman]

I agree with a lot of this. Tebow has looked horrible the last few weeks but our receivers have been pretty shitty for a while now. Some of it looks like they are just confused. They don't know what to do when Tebow holds the ball for ten seconds, some of that is obviously on Tebow but some is on them too. Also, the drops are crazy.

One play in the last game that just pissed me off was the double move route along the sidelines to Royal. It was actually a well thrown ball but right after the first move Eddie slows down to almost a jog so the pass ends up looking overthrown but really it was Eddie's fault.

Now, with that said we can't progress to the next step as a franchise without either: major growth from Tebow as a QB or finding a competent NFL QB.

Sorry but that's just the truth. Tebow has a long way to go. Accuracy and anticipation are major problems for Tebow right now and if he can't improve those two things drastically then we have to go a different route.

But, thats just it. Because Tebow is inaccurate and indecisive it directly effects what the receivers are going to do. While Royal has definitely regressed himself i dont see the same problem with Decker, Thomas, or Willis. The problem is none of the receivers can depend on Tebow to get the ball in the right spot or even on time when they are open. Like we see they probably think that Tim is already running so they give up on routes because they dont have faith in him to get them the ball. I would get pretty fed up too if the QB sucked at passing.

[Mike]

The kid just isnt very good. By this point he should be making strides and improvement, not regressing.

Young players have ups and downs. Nothing out of the ordinary. I think Tebow's situation is a little different due to having a really bad OC and pretty poor talent everywhere else. This is still a really bad team that overachieved. Our expectations just blew up a bit beyond reason due to the midseason success.

Tebow hasn't looked great, but that has to be expected in a young developing player.

Still, if a deal is there and we can manage to get a good QB in the draft I think Elway has to do it.

[Northman]

How long is everyone willing to wait to see if Tebow will get better?

I would give him an offseason but would definitely want us to bring in some other QB's to compete. But if Tebow is traded tomorrow i would be fine with that as well. I dont think he will improve considering how he has played the last 3 games. I will also say here and right now that i dont think Tebow will win another game as a Denver Bronco.

[pnbronco]

FROM ARTICLE -



http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19126114

Carol you are just so special.......:D

[Northman]

Young players have ups and downs. Nothing out of the ordinary. I think Tebow's situation is a little different due to having a really bad OC and pretty poor talent everywhere else. This is still a really bad team that overachieved. Our expectations just blew up a bit beyond reason due to the midseason success.

Tebow hasn't looked great, but that has to be expected in a young developing player.

Still, if a deal is there and we can manage to get a good QB in the draft I think Elway has to do it.


Ups and downs happen, but not like that. Buffalo's and NE's defenses are terrible and we couldnt exploit them. While we did overachieve i thought he was making strides until the Pats game. Its not that i expected to win those games, only to see more improvement which never happened. I knew once teams got game film on him that he would struggle. Its not going to change because Pitt is going to do the same thing Mike. Teams from here on out will continue to force him to make plays through the air and he just cant do it. I can go all around the league and show young QB's who can at least pass the ball with better efficiency. From a QB standpoint i just dont see the progression that i think will work in the long haul.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I would give him an offseason but would definitely want us to bring in some other QB's to compete. But if Tebow is traded tomorrow i would be fine with that as well. I dont think he will improve considering how he has played the last 3 games. I will also say here and right now that i dont think Tebow will win another game as a Denver Bronco.

FROM ARTICLE:


But the Broncos aren't trading him. He will likely be their starting quarterback in 2012. He might be on a short leash in 2012, but long-term, Tebow should always have great value as a starter/special weapon/backup quarterback.

rest of article - Broncos mailbag - Mike Klis - questions and Mike's response:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_19661097

[rationalfan]

another reason lloyd was traded: woody paige recently wrote that lloyd was a "secret" source to the media concerning anti-tebow sentiment.

that's not good for a team's morale. lloyd was one of my favorite broncos. but if it's true that he was a mole for the media and leaked stuff about tebow - or any player - that could cause dissent in the locker room, the guy deserved to be traded to the second worst team in the league.

[Mike]

We would be foolish to not attempt to utilize Tebow in another aspect of the offense if he doesn't pan out at QB or if we are able to acquire a better QB.

[Northman]

another reason lloyd was traded: woody paige recently wrote that lloyd was a "secret" source to the media concerning anti-tebow sentiment.

that's not good for a team's morale. lloyd was one of my favorite broncos. but if it's true that he was a mole for the media and leaked stuff about tebow - or any player - that could cause dissent in the locker room, the guy deserved to be traded to the second worst team in the league.

If ANY of that is true he is a bigger douchebag than i thought.

[Elevation inc]

Ups and downs happen, but not like that. Buffalo's and NE's defenses are terrible and we couldnt exploit them. While we did overachieve i thought he was making strides until the Pats game. Its not that i expected to win those games, only to see more improvement which never happened. I knew once teams got game film on him that he would struggle. Its not going to change because Pitt is going to do the same thing Mike. Teams from here on out will continue to force him to make plays through the air and he just cant do it. I can go all around the league and show young QB's who can at least pass the ball with better efficiency. From a QB standpoint i just dont see the progression that i think will work in the long haul.



im not sure I see long term potential for tebow either anymore, but im also willing to give him a full-offseason and see what happens....if we see the same stuff around game 5 or 6 next year its def time to pull the plug and the end the heartache.....

[Traveler]

I would give him an offseason but would definitely want us to bring in some other QB's to compete. But if Tebow is traded tomorrow i would be fine with that as well. I dont think he will improve considering how he has played the last 3 games. I will also say here and right now that i dont think Tebow will win another game as a Denver Bronco.

North,

Can't say I agree with the last statement, but I will say I won't be surprised if EFX decided to go in another direction at the QB position. In fact, my hope is that they do so. It will give the team the time needed to get Tebow trained up properly in a pro style offense.

[chazoe60]

How long is everyone willing to wait to see if Tebow will get better?
Like North said, give him an offseason but hedge your bets and bring in someone to compete. Draft a guy like Cousins, Tannehill, or Weeden or bring in Flynn as a FA and let them fight it out in camp. The one thing though that I think you have to do if Tebow loses the battle is cut ties with him. His fans and the media circus that surrounds him will crush the team if he's not starting.

[Elevation inc]

another reason lloyd was traded: woody paige recently wrote that lloyd was a "secret" source to the media concerning anti-tebow sentiment.

that's not good for a team's morale. lloyd was one of my favorite broncos. but if it's true that he was a mole for the media and leaked stuff about tebow - or any player - that could cause dissent in the locker room, the guy deserved to be traded to the second worst team in the league.



yeah i heard that to...like i said he may have done some shit here this year cause of tebow vs orton.....but the coaches did no one any favors playing the game the way they did to.....that being said....lloyd is gone....its fact we could use his production, but its also fact that we dont need it at the cost of team unity. However one should not knock lloyd for what he did in denver cause he was a baller while here and is still doing teh same job in st louis depsite playing for 5 different qb's this year

[claymore]

We would be foolish to not attempt to utilize Tebow in another aspect of the offense if he doesn't pan out at QB or if we are able to acquire a better QB.

I see what you are saying but Tebow brings to much craziness and distraction. His upside as a gimmick/trick player isnt worth the hassel.

[TXBRONC]

If ANY of that is true he is a bigger douchebag than i thought.

I've heard the samething from Vic and Gary about month ago.

[Elevation inc]

Like North said, give him an offseason but hedge your bets and bring in someone to compete. Draft a guy like Cousins, Tannehill, or Weeden or bring in Flynn as a FA and let them fight it out in camp. The one thing though that I think you have to do if Tebow loses the battle is cut ties with him. His fans and the media circus that surrounds him will crush the team if he's not starting.



cousins is very raw for this team still....I actually prefer weber over cousins, weber is more mobile than people realize. I like tannehill, and I wouldnt be suprised to see weeden drop to rd 3 cause of age and we snag him, that guy showed grit for OKST all year...and i know his stock went up in elways book after beating luck and stanford....



personally I want 1 of 2 thinsg to happen I want to draft a C or G at our pick in rd 1 and a qb in rd 2 or 3, or i want to draft a QB near the end of rd 1 after trading our pick for a extra 2nd and 3rd and use those extra picks on C/G while adding a WR and RB

[claymore]

Like North said, give him an offseason but hedge your bets and bring in someone to compete. Draft a guy like Cousins, Tannehill, or Weeden or bring in Flynn as a FA and let them fight it out in camp. The one thing though that I think you have to do if Tebow loses the battle is cut ties with him. His fans and the media circus that surrounds him will crush the team if he's not starting.
If EFX doesnt like Tebow, and know he isnt the future, we need to sell high. Hopefully he plays well enough in the postseason to fool a couple of teams like Flynn did this past week..

[Northman]

I see what you are saying but Tebow brings to much craziness and distraction. His upside as a gimmick/trick player isnt worth the hassel.

This is very true. Despite Tim's great athleticism his fanbase is just too myopic and irrational to deal with.

[Elevation inc]

Also just saw that DP thing that mentioned royal, lloyd and orton asked for trades the last 3 months if so why the F is eddie still here and why the heck are fans not pissed at him for wanting a trade? the dude has been a joke at WR since his rookie year......

[Traveler]

Here'a another item about Lloyd-from Lloyd himself:


Plus, Lloyd didn’t want to be there anymore. He said on “SportsCenter” on Monday that his departure was amicable. But he wants to go somewhere where they would pass the ball more. Lloyd reunites with former Denver coach Josh McDaniels in St. Louis. McDaniels is the offensive coordinator in St. Louis.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/46701/brandon-lloyd-trade-was-necessary

[GEM]

eric Mangini said teams disrespect our WRs by playing man on man all day long with no help over the top. He even broke it down on film.

Did you see what steve smith said to sean payton the other day for having his corner try to guard him one on one with no help over the top like teams are playing our WRs? lol.

Its sad that teams are disrespecting our WRs and its nothing they can do about it.

They are disrespecting our QB. Because he can't throw the ball on target continually. There is nothing they can do about it....they don't play QB.

[Northman]

Also just saw that DP thing that mentioned royal, lloyd and orton asked for trades the last 3 months if so why the F is eddie still here and why the heck are fans not pissed at him for wanting a trade? the dude has been a joke at WR since his rookie year......


People were pissed at Eddy until both he and his agent said he never asked for a trade. The same cant be said about Lloyd.

[Dzone]

LMAO! hahahaa...thats some funny shyt right there man
Elway miserable with Tebows success...yer killin me man

[Elevation inc]

People were pissed at Eddy until both he and his agent said he never asked for a trade. The same cant be said about Lloyd.

guess i was still in afghanistan when that happened i about shit a brick when i read that right now, thanks for the heads up on the denial by eddie and his agent, personally i hope we just let him walk in FA and dont spend money on a Tiny WR who cant beat jams and decided to drop more than he catches.....

[Elevation inc]

People were pissed at Eddy until both he and his agent said he never asked for a trade. The same cant be said about Lloyd.


i have no problem with people being upset about lloyd asking for a trade....i was pissed when it went down to....but i also feel it wasnt a orton or tebow thing as much as its a Josh mcd thing....he even said he is gonna base his FA landing spot this year off where MCD goes as Coordinator....

[Northman]

guess i was still in afghanistan when that happened i about shit a brick when i read that right now, thanks for the heads up on the denial by eddie and his agent, personally i hope we just let him walk in FA and dont spend money on a Tiny WR who cant beat jams and decided to drop more than he catches.....

I still like Royal a lot but would much rather see him on returns at this point. I mean, i would still not give up hope that he can be a WR but unless we have a guy like Jay who can actually get him the ball i just think his confidence is toast. But for now i wouldnt just toss him away as he is still a very good returner who can make plays at times.

[Elevation inc]

They are disrespecting our QB. Because he can't throw the ball on target continually. There is nothing they can do about it....they don't play QB.


the WR's and tebow go hand in hand and they both have played like ass for 3 weeks now.....

[VonSackemMiller]

They are disrespecting our QB. Because he can't throw the ball on target continually. There is nothing they can do about it....they don't play QB.

The film dont lie miss lady. none of there asses was open. outside of 4-5 times. Il be the first to tell you that if your wideouts are only going to get open 4-5 times a game then your doomed. period

[Elevation inc]

I still like Royal a lot but would much rather see him on returns at this point. I mean, i would still not give up hope that he can be a WR but unless we have a guy like Jay who can actually get him the ball i just think his confidence is toast. But for now i wouldnt just toss him away as he is still a very good returner who can make plays at times.


i do like him as a returner but untill he figures out how to beat jams he is toast...his rookie year was so great cause he was such a great route runner he could get open just enough for jay to thread it in there.....now Cb's have figured you knock him around or play bump and run you shake him and his route.....its a big reason for his decline....also 3 different QB styles doesnt help either but he gets paid to catch and get open and he does neither. His agent is gonna want him to walk to get big money and im not sure its worth it for just a return guy, although he sure is a beast on returns.....maybe a off-season with tebow will help to.....i personally dont have faith anymore but who knows....

[Northman]

i have no problem with people being upset about lloyd asking for a trade....i was pissed when it went down to....but i also feel it wasnt a orton or tebow thing as much as its a Josh mcd thing....he even said he is gonna base his FA landing spot this year off where MCD goes as Coordinator....


Ive never been a big Lloyd fan despite his one year wonder in Denver. Maybe he resurrects his career in St. Louis, maybe not. But i wasnt upset when he asked for the trade. I knew he wanted a big payday after 2010 and didnt want Denver to be that team to give it too him after just one great season. But i think your kidding yourself if you dont think the Orton/Tebow thing didnt have to do with it. I mean, think about it. Had Lloyd stayed here and our passing attack the way it is his stock would of dropped A LOT. At least in St. Louis he had a QB who was throwing more than 20 times a game. People like to think that if Lloyd had stayed that somehow we would of had a crazy passing attack. Thats just not true. The reason we dont pass much is because the coaches dont have faith that Tebow can be that type of Qb, at least at this time. Fox even admitted that Tebow cant run a conventional offense so Lloyd saw the writing on the wall. I dont blame him for wanting out but i dont respect him either because for him it was always just about him.

[TXBRONC]

The film dont lie miss lady. none of there asses was open. outside of 4-5 times. Il be the first to tell you that if your wideouts are only going to get open 4-5 times a game then your doomed. period

Wrong. There were several times receivers were open Tebow didn't get the ball to them for any number of reason. You don't appear very little (and that's kind) knowledge of pro football. :coffee:

[Mike]

I see what you are saying but Tebow brings to much craziness and distraction. His upside as a gimmick/trick player isnt worth the hassel.

It shouldn't be as a gimmick/trick role. That would be misusing him. Make him your TE/FB player.

The guy is a baller. If he agrees to change position then that's all I need. He is a first round talent, IMO, even if may not be at QB. We can use that skill/heart/determination/leadership on this team.

If Denver can't get decent value for him (which I doubt they can), then they need to hold on to him and attempt to move him into another role.

[Npba900]

Almost every analyst has said Elway never even gave tebow a chance, Never believed in tebow from day one, Never wanted Tebow from day one, The only thing that was on elways mind was having a shot at getting luck.

31 other GM's in the NFL would have treated Tebow the same way! By the way, Tebow has no one to blame but himself!

[turftoad]

The film dont lie miss lady. none of there asses was open. outside of 4-5 times. Il be the first to tell you that if your wideouts are only going to get open 4-5 times a game then your doomed. period

WR's were open, sometimes wide open and sometimes open for a second or two.

TT cannot hit timing routes or fit the ball into a small window when needed. He is struggling as a passer, always has and probably always will.

[BORDERLINE]

Elway did let go of Lloyd for chump change IMO. He would have been Tebow's deep target and might have made some great catches. JUst because he asked for a trade does not mean he should have been granted one. This was his contract year he needed to put up numbers or at least keep his a good reputation. I'm sure he would have acted as a professional, can't see him acting like S.Holmes. Like I have said before who knows He might have come around to being here next year. And I read here someone said he was not very good? sorry Lloyd made the Pro-Bowl last year on his numbers, his catches are amazing and this guy can stretch the field as good as anyone. He was our best WR on the team. Decker and Royal are both nice little WR but in reality they are 3rd and 4th WR on a good team.

The difference from the Marshall trade was that B.Marsh was looking to get PAID and well his behavior was a concern. Those type of guys hurt you more than they help. And 2 2nd rounders for him we got a good deal out of that one.

Letting Orton go would have been a BIG BULLET to take had the Raiders not lost. Sorry 2 million saved does not constitute losing all that playoff revenue money(read somewhere it was 20 million+). Elway made a mistake plain and simple on that one. He should have released him as soon as he was benched.

But when you look at what was done wrong there is also a lot of good. V.Miller was a solid pick. Everyone and there mama wanted a DL but EFX stuck to their guns and selected a BEAST.

[Npba900]

The film dont lie miss lady. none of there asses was open. outside of 4-5 times. Il be the first to tell you that if your wideouts are only going to get open 4-5 times a game then your doomed. period

Give it up dude. Tebow knows he's not getting the job done and his confidence is all but gone.

Its not McCoy's fault that team finally figured out the SEC Spread Option. Tebow himself should have known that Tebow ball was only going to last for a certain period of time; and if he didn't, shame on T2.

Tebow has never taken learning how to throw and play from within the pocket seriously and now its coming back to haunt him.

Tebow has probably already peaked as a prototypical NFL QB. He started the year as a 48.8 pct and has ended the season with a 46.6 pct, while throwing the ball at or less than 15 times a game. Imagine Tebow passing percentage if he were throwing the ball 25-35 times a game....it would be horrendous.

[VonSackemMiller]

WR's were open, sometimes wide open and sometimes open for a second or two.

TT cannot hit timing routes or fit the ball into a small window when needed. He is struggling as a passer, always has and probably always will.

Sure

[VonSackemMiller]

Give it up dude. Tebow knows he's not getting the job done and his confidence is all but gone.

Its not McCoy's fault that team finally figured out the SEC Spread Option. Tebow himself should have known that Tebow ball was only going to last for a certain period of time; and if he didn't, shame on T2.

Tebow has never taken learning how to throw and play from within the pocket seriously and now its coming back to haunt him.

Tebow has probably already peaked as a prototypical NFL QB. He started the year as a 48.8 pct and has ended the season with a 46.6 pct, while throwing the ball at or less than 15 times a game. Imagine Tebow passing percentage if he were throwing the ball 25-35 times a game....it would be horrendous.

Elway started out the same way. horirble.

[BroncoJoe]

Elway did let go of Lloyd for chump change IMO. He would have been Tebow's deep target and might have made some great catches. JUst because he asked for a trade does not mean he should have been granted one. This was his contract year he needed to put up numbers or at least keep his a good reputation. I'm sure he would have acted as a professional, can't see him acting like S.Holmes. Like I have said before who knows He might have come around to being here next year. And I read here someone said he was not very good? sorry Lloyd made the Pro-Bowl last year on his numbers, his catches are amazing and this guy can stretch the field as good as anyone. He was our best WR on the team. Decker and Royal are both nice little WR but in reality they are 3rd and 4th WR on a good team.

The difference from the Marshall trade was that B.Marsh was looking to get PAID and well his behavior was a concern. Those type of guys hurt you more than they help. And 2 2nd rounders for him we got a good deal out of that one.

Letting Orton go would have been a BIG BULLET to take had the Raiders not lost. Sorry 2 million saved does not constitute losing all that playoff revenue money(read somewhere it was 20 million+). Elway made a mistake plain and simple on that one. He should have released him as soon as he was benched.

But when you look at what was done wrong there is also a lot of good. V.Miller was a solid pick. Everyone and there mama wanted a DL but EFX stuck to their guns and selected a BEAST.

There's the situation. He was in a contract year as an unrestricted free agent in 2012. He wasn't coming back here, so why not get something for him?

[turftoad]

Elway started out the same way. horirble.

You are making a fool of yourself constantly comparing Tebow to Elway. Just sayin. :tsk: But hey, at least you finnally admited that TT has looked horrible. Thats a good first step.

[Mike]

Give it up dude. Tebow knows he's not getting the job done and his confidence is all but gone.

Its not McCoy's fault that team finally figured out the SEC Spread Option. Tebow himself should have known that Tebow ball was only going to last for a certain period of time; and if he didn't, shame on T2.

Tebow has never taken learning how to throw and play from within the pocket seriously and now its coming back to haunt him.

Tebow has probably already peaked as a prototypical NFL QB. He started the year as a 48.8 pct and has ended the season with a 46.6 pct, while throwing the ball at or less than 15 times a game. Imagine Tebow passing percentage if he were throwing the ball 25-35 times a game....it would be horrendous.

I don't think McCoy should be let off the hook. He consistently calls dumb plays for the downage/yards-to-gain/game situations. You can argue that Tebow factors in to that and that will work a bit, but it doesn't let him off the hook IMO.

[TimHippo]

I give him credit for having a good draft but his moves this season has been terrible, First of all Kyle Orton shoulda been sitting his ass on the bench of the broncos for the rest of the season, 2nd everybody knew the chiefs needed a Qb since cassell was down so why wouldnt they had claimed orton? 3rd was giving your division rival a QB (below average) QB but still giving them a Qb they can atleast do a couple things with a good front office decision over saving 2 million? I think not. theres noway tyler palko has even 2-3 completions and changes field position for KC like orton did. Orton might not have did anything but he did get them out of holes buried deep in there own territory to get some nice punts off.


The next **** up was trading Brandon Lloyd, Why on earth would we trade Brandon Lloyd? He didnt demand a trade the broncos put him on the block because they figured he wouldnt be happy. Which is bullshit because last year if you remember when tebow played the last 3 games him and Lloyd was connecting all the time for touchdowns too. So we get rid of tebows number one WR who actually gets open, who actually catches everything, who goes up and gets those poorly thrown balls that orton used to throw also, Who scores touchdowns for a 5th round pick? Boy that whopping 5th round pick better turn into gold. Because being that we started winning games and now in the playoffs its looking like we could use Lloyd, Id much rather tebow throwing to Lloyd than any WR on our team right now. Not saying they wont develope but the right now we could use lloyd.

So yeah elway blew it, Palko should have been starting for the cHiefs and Brandon Lloyd should still be catching touchdown passes from tebow like he did the last 3 games last year. Nothing like developing your young QB like trading away his best legit weapon huh? Or was elway ever intending on developing tebow? kind of seems like he wanted tebow to fail vs letting tebow fail on his own. smh.

Go head defend this shit.

Ill give the rams back there lousy 5th round pick for brandon lloyd for these playoffs, brandon lloyd in st louis making the same amazing big time plays he was making here in denver. The broncos should have probably gave lloyd an extension to be honest.

The plan was to get rid of all the offensive weapons so Tebow would fail. Then they could get rid of Tebow and also get into the Luck sweepstakes with a horrendous record. The plan itself was sound. But he underestimated the power of Tebow.

[VonSackemMiller]

There's the situation. He was in a contract year as an unrestricted free agent in 2012. He wasn't coming back here, so why not get something for him?

Tag him? then trade him for that lousy 5th round pick this off season. no money loss.....You only get to trading good players during the season if your looking towards tanking the rest of the season and losing.

[turftoad]

The plan was to get rid of all the offensive weapons so Tebow would fail. Then they could get rid of Tebow and also get into the Luck sweepstakes with a horrendous record. The plan itself was sound. But he underestimated the power of Tebow.

Well, now that we all know what the plan was......... :tsk:

[Traveler]

Tag him? then trade him for that lousy 5th round pick this off season. no money loss.....You only get to trading good players during the season if your looking towards tanking the rest of the season and losing.

Seriously?

Taking a riff from ESPN: C'mon Man! :rolleyes:

[Elevation inc]

I don't think McCoy should be let off the hook. He consistently calls dumb plays for the downage/yards-to-gain/game situations. You can argue that Tebow factors in to that and that will work a bit, but it doesn't let him off the hook IMO.


i counted 3 times in the KC game alone where we had a 3rd down and short and the playcall looked to be eddie and decker going deep on double moves while mcghaee stayed in and fells stayed home to max protect to give time for thpose routes, problem was neitehr decker or royal could get open at all they were blanketed by 1 on 1 coverage....HAHA.....

I chalk that up to playcall and piss poor execution plain and simple......how is tebow suppose to convert that when his only 2 options are blanketed, and his checkdowns in normal situations are in max protect mode, cause our OL cant win 5 vs 4, so they are protecting the pocket so he has time to hit wideouts 15 yds downfield on 3rd and 4.....its a disgrace this offense and like i said in a thread earlier there are about 3 players on offense doing there job the last 3 weeks....thats it, add that with horrendous playcalling and its no wonder the whole offense including tebow regressed.....

[NightTerror218]

I do not think is was that big of a mistake letting Orton go. Since he did not beat us. KC only scored 1 TD. But the their Defense won the game not letting our offense do a damn thing.

[claymore]

I do not think is was that big of a mistake letting Orton go. Since he did not beat us. KC only scored 1 TD. But the their Defense won the game not letting our offense do a damn thing.

The fact that we are even talking about letting Orton go as a mistake proves that Tebow is not the QB of the future.

[NightTerror218]

The fact that we are even talking about letting Orton go as a mistake proves that Tebow is not the QB of the future.

I am glad we let Orton go, freed up a roster spot. But Tebow still could be or he could not be. I think we will know when the draft comes. Elway said he is going to work with Tebow over summer. He will have first hand experience if Tebow is progressing. If he is not making any progression in that time before draft Elway will prob draft a QB higher then the fans want. If he is making progressions then he will prob be the starter for the 2012 season.

[jhildebrand]

Both of the moves you fault Elway for are moves of PURE CLASS! It was moves like that that made Denver one of the "classiest organizations' in the NFL. It was a policy that Shanahan had instituted.

Those moves will pay big dividends in the future and with FA's!

[vandammage13]

I agree with a lot of this. Tebow has looked horrible the last few weeks but our receivers have been pretty shitty for a while now. Some of it looks like they are just confused. They don't know what to do when Tebow holds the ball for ten seconds, some of that is obviously on Tebow but some is on them too. Also, the drops are crazy.

One play in the last game that just pissed me off was the double move route along the sidelines to Royal. It was actually a well thrown ball but right after the first move Eddie slows down to almost a jog so the pass ends up looking overthrown but really it was Eddie's fault.

Now, with that said we can't progress to the next step as a franchise without either: major growth from Tebow as a QB or finding a competent NFL QB.

Sorry but that's just the truth. Tebow has a long way to go. Accuracy and anticipation are major problems for Tebow right now and if he can't improve those two things drastically then we have to go a different route.

I remember that play as well...It was almost as if Royal wasn't expecting the ball to come his way, as if it was a dummy route or something...The guy slowed down and then sped back up when he saw TT actually threw the ball his way....Should have been a long completion. Totally on Royal there.

TT has been sucking beyond what I even thought was possible for him these last few weeks, but these WR's are unquestionably at or near #32 in the league.

Even when he does manage to put it on the numbers they seem to drop the ball half the time. Matt Willis on that last drive dropped that deep pass that could have kept the miracle finishes going. Ball hit him right in the chest.

TT is certainly doing more bad than good right now, which is a tough pill for me to swallow because I truly have high hopes for this guy...But the WR's seem to be constantly failing when they are given an opportunity to make a play and help out their QB.

I'm not sure there would be many young QB's that would have much success with the way our recievers have been playing...If it weren't for TT's legs, this team would be 0-11 in his starts, because the combination of his horrid accuracy and the caliber of our WR's is a recipe for disaster.

[NightTerror218]

I remember that play as well...It was almost as if Royal wasn't expecting the ball to come his way, as if it was a dummy route or something...The guy slowed down and then sped back up when he saw TT actually threw the ball his way....Should have been a long completion. Totally on Royal there.

TT has been sucking beyond what I even thought was possible for him these last few weeks, but these WR's are unquestionably at or near #32 in the league.

Even when he does manage to put it on the numbers they seem to drop the ball half the time. Matt Willis on that last drive dropped that deep pass that could have kept the miracle finishes going. Ball hit him right in the chest.

TT is certainly doing more bad than good right now, which is a tough pill for me to swallow because I truly have high hopes for this guy...But the WR's seem to be constantly failing when they are given an opportunity to make a play and help out their QB.

I'm not sure there would be many young QB's that would have much success with the way our recievers have been playing...If it weren't for TT's legs, this team would be 0-11 in his starts, because the combination of his horrid accuracy and the caliber of our WR's is a recipe for disaster.

I personally think we need some good FA WRs. I want a Vet on this team to help them. I want Royal to become 3rd/4th stringer but punt/kickoff returner. dont sign another Cosby put Royal in that position. Sign a Vet who cna be #1 target, have Dt #2 and Decker #3. Decker has played like shit but he is a great run blocker. Decker rarely uses his hands to catch ball, has most drops and waits for ball to come to him rather then going to the ball. I am happy with DT, he has had some big drops but coming back after all those injuries has done well. He needs to learn to use his size against smaller CBs so our QB can throw it up and high for him to make play. Just like most QBs do inside the 10 yard line with single converage, throw it to the corner and have the WR go make a play on it. Saw that this weekend.

[vandammage13]

I personally think we need some good FA WRs. I want a Vet on this team to help them. I want Royal to become 3rd/4th stringer but punt/kickoff returner. dont sign another Cosby put Royal in that position. Sign a Vet who cna be #1 target, have Dt #2 and Decker #3. Decker has played like shit but he is a great run blocker. Decker rarely uses his hands to catch ball, has most drops and waits for ball to come to him rather then going to the ball. I am happy with DT, he has had some big drops but coming back after all those injuries has done well. He needs to learn to use his size against smaller CBs so our QB can throw it up and high for him to make play. Just like most QBs do inside the 10 yard line with single converage, throw it to the corner and have the WR go make a play on it. Saw that this weekend.

I hear there's this WR in Saint Louis that might be available in Free Agency in 2012.

[BroncoStud]

Lloyd is a douchebag worthless piece of crap. At least we got some thing for him. How many good seasons did he have? He is AT BEST a low #2 receiver.

I disagree with this. Brandon Lloyd is a GOOD WR. It took him time to find the right situation to use his talents properly but McDaniels got it out of him and more. Guys like Suh are "pieces of crap" not Lloyd. He saw the direction the offense was going and he wanted to go somewhere he would be utilized more.

I don't recall him pulling any nonsense on or off the field that would warrant such dislike. If anything, I recall his interviews to be honest, open, and better than most on the team. He wanted to be on a passing team, so what. They obliged him. He was nowhere close to the douchebag that Brandon Marshall was or many others.

Lloyd was our only real weapon for 2 years, he made some RIDICULOUS catches. He belongs in a spread, he thrives in it. I wish him the best. He was fun to watch.

The Orton move I don't really get... It was a risk that we took and it's not like it mattered in the end, the offense he led scored 7 freaking points, all we needed was 3 FGs to beat his sorry ass and couldn't muster that. Hard to blame Elway for either move IMO. Orton wasn't being a good teammate and the front office just wanted him gone.

[NightTerror218]

I hear there's this WR in Saint Louis that might be available in Free Agency in 2012.

As long as he comes at the same pay as before. :D

[GEM]

Tag him? then trade him for that lousy 5th round pick this off season. no money loss.....You only get to trading good players during the season if your looking towards tanking the rest of the season and losing.

Have you not read anything the past year? The guy was a distraction who also leaked shit to the media. Terrible team guy who has had a terrible career. Franchise tag that mofo and pay him top 3 money.....effing genius.

[Elevation inc]

Have you not read anything the past year? The guy was a distraction who also leaked shit to the media. Terrible team guy who has had a terrible career. Franchise tag that mofo and pay him top 3 money.....effing genius.



there is actually no proof of that only rumors from unknown sources that it could have been him, lets not get carried away on the lloyd hate train here.....i get people are upset cause of his supposed trade demands....fine but lets not make facts where there are none actually known....

[catfish]

My thought are that Elway and Fox planned on using this year to evaluate young talent without really thinking they were going to win much. If that was the plan they made all the right move. I bet you dollars to donuts they are more suprised than anyone that they are in the playoffs. As Fox said in his presser "if you had told me we were going to be in the playoffs at the beginning of the year........I would have taken it." Struck me that he mentally edited out "I would have said you were full of shit." Not suprisingly the same sentiment most of us would have had.

Did Elway make some moves that could hurt the ability of the team to go deep in the playoffs, sure, was it a bad call hell no. This team wasn't going deep with or without llyod. Instead he got a large enough amount of games to see who on this young team is going to develop. It is all a matter of looking at what the most likely goal for the year was. I think the FO is doing well so far, ask again after draft/FA

[weazel]

it's everyone's fault but tebow's... yes, we get it.

[Softskull]

Our WRs aren’t that bad and certainly not our biggest weakness.

We completed 59% prior to Tebow, 46.5% with Tebow. That disparity speaks more to the passer.

Here's a quick breakdown on Tebow’s 271 passes this year:

Pass Dropped 21
Poor Throw 71
Pass Defend 22
Hit at Line 1
Other 24
Intercepted 6

[DenBronx]

I can't even get through all of this thread.

Where's my idiot detector?

[vandammage13]

Our WRs aren’t that bad and certainly not our biggest weakness.

We completed 59% prior to Tebow, 46.5% with Tebow. That disparity speaks more to the passer.

Here's a quick breakdown on Tebow’s 271 passes this year:

Pass Dropped 21
Poor Throw 71
Pass Defend 22
Hit at Line 1
Other 24
Intercepted 6

Or you could break it down to 59% with Lloyd, 46.5% without Lloyd...

Easy to make stats look however you want them to.

Winning and losing is the only stat that matters to me...We are in the playoffs and 0-0 as far as I'm concerned.

[TXBRONC]

Our WRs aren’t that bad and certainly not our biggest weakness.

We completed 59% prior to Tebow, 46.5% with Tebow. That disparity speaks more to the passer.

Here's a quick breakdown on Tebow’s 271 passes this year:

Pass Dropped 21
Poor Throw 71
Pass Defend 22
Hit at Line 1
Other 24
Intercepted 6

Where did you come up with those stats?

[catfish]

Our WRs aren’t that bad and certainly not our biggest weakness.

We completed 59% prior to Tebow, 46.5% with Tebow. That disparity speaks more to the passer.

Here's a quick breakdown on Tebow’s 271 passes this year:

Pass Dropped 21
Poor Throw 71
Pass Defend 22
Hit at Line 1
Other 24
Intercepted 6

I don't know if I agree that they aren't that bad. 21 drops out of 271 passes is a shit ton. You had Lloyd prior to Tebow so it is apples/oranges % wise. IMO(and I am an admitted new fan) Llyod was good for at least 2 incredible catches a game(give or take) even disgregarding his ability to seperate Suffice it to say that I feel there is room for growth because basically every player on O is still a NFL infant. Lots of potential there.

This game was no doubt a stinker, but that is what you get with young player occasionally. Unfortunatelty(or maybe fortunately) this team is trying to win with players with almost zero experience in their roles. There is going to be less consistency, but much more potential for the future. Personally I'm impressed that they have kept it together this long

edit: just out of curiosity where do those stats come from?

[VonSackemMiller]

Have you not read anything the past year? The guy was a distraction who also leaked shit to the media. Terrible team guy who has had a terrible career. Franchise tag that mofo and pay him top 3 money.....effing genius.

uhh lately hes been worth top money. like it or not. Dont know where this leaking stuff is coming from. But okay keep reaching.

[VonSackemMiller]

I personally think we need some good FA WRs. I want a Vet on this team to help them. I want Royal to become 3rd/4th stringer but punt/kickoff returner. dont sign another Cosby put Royal in that position. Sign a Vet who cna be #1 target, have Dt #2 and Decker #3. Decker has played like shit but he is a great run blocker. Decker rarely uses his hands to catch ball, has most drops and waits for ball to come to him rather then going to the ball. I am happy with DT, he has had some big drops but coming back after all those injuries has done well. He needs to learn to use his size against smaller CBs so our QB can throw it up and high for him to make play. Just like most QBs do inside the 10 yard line with single converage, throw it to the corner and have the WR go make a play on it. Saw that this weekend.

man we need to sign reggie wayne this off season. great veteran route runner, with reliable hands.

[Softskull]

Where did you come up with those stats?

http://stats.masslive.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=24000&team=07

[dogfish]

lmao. . . somebody's actually still upset about that loser lloyd?

:lol:

[Traveler]

man we need to sign reggie wayne this off season. great veteran route runner, with reliable hands.

Insane money to a veteran WR on the downside of his career with a QB with accuracy issues. Oh yeah, that makes sense.:lol:

[NightTerror218]

dont forget Elway is not GM, Xanders is. But also so many GMs are being fired right now. Elway would be smart to get one with lots of experience, like Bears GM Angelo who was just fired.

[NightTerror218]

Insane money to a veteran WR on the downside of his career with a QB with accuracy issues. Oh yeah, that makes sense.:lol:

I would take him in heartbeat on this team. He is dependable. We dont have any dependable people catching ball.

[Ziggy]

Elway's not going to hire a GM, he's running this team. To bring in a GM like Deangelo or Polian would mean giving up controll, and I don't see Elway following anyone's vision except his own at this point.

[Softskull]

I don't know if I agree that they aren't that bad. 21 drops out of 271 passes is a shit ton. You had Lloyd prior to Tebow so it is apples/oranges % wise. IMO(and I am an admitted new fan) Llyod was good for at least 2 incredible catches a game(give or take) even disgregarding his ability to seperate Suffice it to say that I feel there is room for growth because basically every player on O is still a NFL infant. Lots of potential there.

This game was no doubt a stinker, but that is what you get with young player occasionally. Unfortunatelty(or maybe fortunately) this team is trying to win with players with almost zero experience in their roles. There is going to be less consistency, but much more potential for the future. Personally I'm impressed that they have kept it together this long

edit: just out of curiosity where do those stats come from?

21 Drops isn't out of the norm. Roddy White had 15 himself. A comparison would be Matt Moore who had 18 drops or Big Ben who had 27.

Don't get me wrong, I loved having Lloyd on the team and he was a freak at catching crazy balls but even he had 5 drops this year.

[Traveler]

I would take him in heartbeat on this team. He is dependable. We dont have any dependable people catching ball.

We also don't have someone dependable throwing the ball. Just sayin'!;)

[Jsteve01]

man we need to sign reggie wayne this off season. great veteran route runner, with reliable hands.

Heard Marvin Harrison and Tory Holt are available. they fit the bill

[VonSackemMiller]

Lloyd in his 3 games with tebow last year had

vs oakland 4 catches 80 yards touchdown

vs houston 5 catches 111 yards

vs chargers 5 catches 73 yards and touchdown

and he average 15 yards per catch or more in all 3 games...... the guy was being used with tebow. he should have been kept. noway around it.

[VonSackemMiller]

Insane money to a veteran WR on the downside of his career with a QB with accuracy issues. Oh yeah, that makes sense.:lol:

Reggie wayne is still elite. And who said we had to pay the man a ton of cash? wayne can show our pups a ton about running great routes and catching balls. how to seperate. when to accelerate. because clearly whoever our WR coach is aint doin it

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Lloyd in his 3 games with tebow last year had

vs oakland 4 catches 80 yards touchdown

vs houston 5 catches 111 yards

vs chargers 5 catches 73 yards and touchdown

and he average 15 yards per catch or more in all 3 games...... the guy was being used with tebow. he should have been kept. noway around it.

Lloyd not only demanded a trade - which obviously meant he wanted out, plus he is in the last year of his contract - so with him wanting out, and in the last year of his contract, if the Broncos had kept him - he would have walked after the season is over.

[VonSackemMiller]

dont forget Elway is not GM, Xanders is. But also so many GMs are being fired right now. Elway would be smart to get one with lots of experience, like Bears GM Angelo who was just fired.

oh nooooo to mister angelo. lol go over to the chicago forums there dancing in the streets that hes gone. Bring in one of the polians IMO

[catfish]

21 Drops isn't out of the norm. Roddy White had 15 himself. A comparison would be Matt Moore who had 18 drops or Big Ben who had 27.

Don't get me wrong, I loved having Lloyd on the team and he was a freak at catching crazy balls but even he had 5 drops this year.

look at the drops/# of attempts, league average is 5%, 21/271 is 7.5% the only team higher is the browns IIRC

[VonSackemMiller]

Heard Marvin Harrison and Tory Holt are available. they fit the bill

there washed up. nice try at sarcasm though. reggie wayne is farrrr from done.

[vandammage13]

Lloyd in his 3 games with tebow last year had

vs oakland 4 catches 80 yards touchdown

vs houston 5 catches 111 yards

vs chargers 5 catches 73 yards and touchdown

and he average 15 yards per catch or more in all 3 games...... the guy was being used with tebow. he should have been kept. noway around it.

Hard to argue with those numbers...

But like North said earlier, if he didn't want to be here then he needed to be moved.

Still, it would have been interesting to see how TT would have done with a solid #1 option...Lloyd #1, Thomas #2, Decker #3, Royal #4 isn't bad. Each of those spots are exactly where each of those guys belong.

A guy like Matt Willis would never see the field outside of special teams on 80% of teams in this league.

Even last year we had Jabar Gaffney who was a pretty decent #2 option (Let him walk for a DT that we promptly cut, IIRC). Funny how the only strength of this team last year has now become a liability.

[dogfish]

there washed up. nice try at sarcasm though. reggie wayne is farrrr from done.

farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-- he has at least a good year or two left. . .

let's sign him for five. . . :lol:

[BroncoStud]

Lloyd is better than anything we currently have on the roster, he played great for us. But we still get a 5th for him next year, which is fine by me. More draft ammo to use.

[Traveler]

Reggie wayne is still elite. And who said we had to pay the man a ton of cash? wayne can show our pups a ton about running great routes and catching balls. how to seperate. when to accelerate. because clearly whoever our WR coach is aint doin it

And this improves Tebow's passing issues how? You do know we are rebuilding, right?

If, as you say, our WR coach isn't getting the job done, why not just bring in a former Bronco great-Rod Smith-as a consultant to work with the younger guys?

Saves money and doesn't stunt the growth of our young receivers. Win-win IMO.

[catfish]

Our WRs aren’t that bad and certainly not our biggest weakness.

We completed 59% prior to Tebow, 46.5% with Tebow. That disparity speaks more to the passer.

Here's a quick breakdown on Tebow’s 271 passes this year:

Pass Dropped 21
Poor Throw 71
Pass Defend 22
Hit at Line 1
Other 24
Intercepted 6

Sam Bradfords attempts

357 total attempts

20 dropped
70 innacurate
42 defended
12 hit at line
18 other
6 intercepted

better, but not remarkably so when you consider Tebow attempts throws 15+ yards in the air 10% more often than Bradford

edit: not saying Tebow doesn't need work...he needs tons. Just saying the sky isn't falling

[MileHighOC]

Bottom line is EFX gave up on the season and got what they could for Lloyd... Then when Tebow started winning all those games saw a chance to unload some $$$. Luckily SD bailed out EFX , but there isn't an excuse on letting Lloyd go. Also how did the Gaffney trade work out for us?

Another thing I hAve learned the past year and a half is that the Denver broncos are here to make $$$ 1st being competive is 2nd. It's said pats wallet has shrunk and we do not spend like we use too. I guess with the new rules that will start to change next year

[VonSackemMiller]

Cutler didnt wanna be here either, he should still be here. Brandon marshall is the one who had to go. we cant just go off letting guys go because they get in there feelings about things. as we started going on the 7 of 8 game winning streak lloyd woulda calmed down and played football. Like you said thomas woulda been the 2, decker in the slot where he belongs, and royal a 4th option/.fulltime returner. would have been the perfect setup. Lloyd a guy teams couldnt play one on one because theyd get burned.

Now how do you bracket tebow in the pocket, double lloyd, and then cover thomas decker and royal? impossible. We need a WR who demands that same double team. Who you cant play press coverage with zero help like teams have been playing us. Man i miss Lloyd. tebow needs him and this offense needs him to open things up.

[VonSackemMiller]

And this improves Tebow's passing issues how? You do know we are rebuilding, right?

If, as you say, our WR coach isn't getting the job done, why not just bring in a former Bronco great-Rod Smith-as a consultant to work with the younger guys?

Saves money and doesn't stunt the growth of our young receivers. Win-win IMO.

that can happen too but at the end of the day they need to see it done also on the field in practice too. bring in rod. and then bring in an elite WR who demands double coverage, who wont be disrespected by being played by one guy with no help.

[VonSackemMiller]

Bottom line is EFX gave up on the season and got what they could for Lloyd... Then when Tebow started winning all those games saw a chance to unload some $$$. Luckily SD bailed out EFX , but there isn't an excuse on letting Lloyd go. Also how did the Gaffney trade work out for us?

Another thing I hAve learned the past year and a half is that the Denver broncos are here to make $$$ 1st being competive is 2nd. It's said pats wallet has shrunk and we do not spend like we use too. I guess with the new rules that will start to change next year

Ooo how could we forget about mister reliable gaffney, who is has become a fanfavorite in washington, all he does is get open and catch passes. :tsk: we gave away our best WRs for NOTHING.

[Dreadnought]

Cutler didnt wanna be here either, he should still be here. Brandon marshall is the one who had to go. we cant just go off letting guys go because they get in there feelings about things. as we started going on the 7 of 8 game winning streak lloyd woulda calmed down and played football. Like you said thomas woulda been the 2, decker in the slot where he belongs, and royal a 4th option/.fulltime returner. would have been the perfect setup. Lloyd a guy teams couldnt play one on one because theyd get burned.

Now how do you bracket tebow in the pocket, double lloyd, and then cover thomas decker and royal? impossible. We need a WR who demands that same double team. Who you cant play press coverage with zero help like teams have been playing us. Man i miss Lloyd. tebow needs him and this offense needs him to open things up.

Different scenario. Cutler didn't want to be here because McDaniels was a douche and Cutler didn't trust the organization once it was in McD's hands. He was probably right about that too. Lloyd was just a sorehead with a lot of mileage on him and a questionable attitude. Getting rid of him was addition by subtraction, or at worst a solid move in a rebuilding year.

[Elevation inc]

Reggie wayne is still elite. And who said we had to pay the man a ton of cash? wayne can show our pups a ton about running great routes and catching balls. how to seperate. when to accelerate. because clearly whoever our WR coach is aint doin it

thats because because are legit WR coach is now coaching tebow, while our current Wr coach doesnt have a clue:lol::lol:

[BroncoNut]

first of all. Elway doesn't blow anything. period

[MileHighOC]

Ooo how could we forget about mister reliable gaffney, who is has become a fanfavorite in washington, all he does is get open and catch passes. :tsk: we gave away our best WRs for NOTHING.

I think we Are trying to set trade records

Who trades a 24yr old pro bowl qb?
Who trades their top 2 WRs in the same season??!
Who allows their qb go to their rival for free!!! And of course beats them?

I could go on and on about all the MCD trades but that's water under the bridge and I'm new here ;)

[VonSackemMiller]

Different scenario. Cutler didn't want to be here because McDaniels was a douche and Cutler didn't trust the organization once it was in McD's hands. He was probably right about that too. Lloyd was just a sorehead with a lot of mileage on him and a questionable attitude. Getting rid of him was addition by subtraction, or at worst a solid move in a rebuilding year.

I dont care about the scenerios dude, Pat bowlen shoulda sat cutler down and mcdaniels down in the same room. told both of them i dont care what happend prior. both of you are going to be here. both of you are going to make it work period because niether of you are going anywhere. Man up and go win some games and if you dont both of you will be shit canned.

brandon Lloyd just wanted to catch balls which he would have, and was just mad how orton was beatin and bashed but thats something he would have gotten over. Lloyd wasnt a locker room cancer here. Far from it.

[vandammage13]

Bottom line is EFX gave up on the season and got what they could for Lloyd... Then when Tebow started winning all those games saw a chance to unload some $$$. Luckily SD bailed out EFX , but there isn't an excuse on letting Lloyd go. Also how did the Gaffney trade work out for us?

Another thing I hAve learned the past year and a half is that the Denver broncos are here to make $$$ 1st being competive is 2nd. It's said pats wallet has shrunk and we do not spend like we use too. I guess with the new rules that will start to change next year

These moves kind of look bad now, but at the time this team was clearly in rebuilding mode.

We still are in full out rebuilding mode, frankly, and being in the playoffs was totally unexpected by EFX (I'm sure they'd never admit to this).

Sure, we could use Lloyd now, but hindsight is 20/20...Whether or not we could use those players now is not the issue to me, its what we are getting for them.

IMO, Elway's failures is not that Orton ended up at KC just to save $2 Mil (a bonehead move considering that a W is worth much more than $2 Mil), but that he wasn't able to put together a deal to send Orton away prior to the season...His asking price was too high.

If he was willing to deal Lloyd for a 5th rounder, then why not be willing to deal Orton for a 4th when he was on the market? Instead we let him walk for nothing and had no control over which team he went to, which could have ended terribly had SD not bailed us out.

The fact we traded Gaffney (not great, but a very productive WR) for nothing (a bum Defensive Tackle who never played a down for us) while DT was coming off an achilles injury was highly questionable.

I'll give him credit for resigning Champ, getting McGahee, and finding a potential gem in Chris Harris.

And while Von Miller has been great for us, I don't think any of our other draft picks have contributed at all this year (yeah, our rookie safeties played a lot of downs, but I wouldn't say they played well.)

So far, I've seen just as many bonehead moves as good ones during Elway's short tenure.

Maybe this is the normal success rate for most moves across the league...I don't know because I only follow the Broncos closely.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I dont care about the scenerios dude, Pat bowlen shoulda sat cutler down and mcdaniels down in the same room. told both of them i dont care what happend prior. both of you are going to be here. both of you are going to make it work period because niether of you are going anywhere. Man up and go win some games and if you dont both of you will be shit canned.

brandon Lloyd just wanted to catch balls which he would have, and was just mad how orton was beatin and bashed but thats something he would have gotten over. Lloyd wasnt a locker room cancer here. Far from it.

How many times did you have the privilege to be in the Broncos' locker room?

[catfish]

first of all. Elway doesn't blow anything. period

I agree

Elway's team just made it to the playoff in the first round of a three year rebuilding project. Dumped 2 Mil getting rid of Orton, dumped Lloyd for a pick when really having him this year wouldn't have benefitted anyone except Tebow(IMO). Had the KC game put them out of the playoff you would have a leg to stand on that he financially screwed the owner, but as it stands he squeezed out 22Mil instead of 20 by dumping Orton. Could it have blown up, yes, as it turns out Elway was on the right side of the fine line between ballsy and stupid

[VonSackemMiller]

I think we Are trying to set trade records

Who trades a 24yr old pro bowl qb?
Who trades their top 2 WRs in the same season??!
Who allows their qb go to their rival for free!!! And of course beats them?

I could go on and on about all the MCD trades but that's water under the bridge and I'm new here ;)

Yeah man its sad how the broncos are known for trading away talent now. Hey you want a pro bowler or some up grades just holler at the broncos.

mcd screwed up and elway has continued it by giving away lloyd and gaffney

[VonSackemMiller]

I agree

Elway's team just made it to the playoff in the first round of a three year rebuilding project. Dumped 2 Mil getting rid of Orton, dumped Lloyd for a pick when really having him this year wouldn't have benefitted anyone except Tebow(IMO). Had the KC game put them out of the playoff you would have a leg to stand on that he financially screwed the owner, but as it stands he squeezed out 22Mil instead of 20 by dumping Orton. Could it have blown up, yes, as it turns out Elway was on the right side of the fine line between ballsy and stupid

Wouldnt have benefitted anyone but tim tebow? what the hell? whats wrong with that benefittin tebow? is it a bad thing for tebow to have a number one WR? having lloyd benefits the entire offense and how defenses would have had to play us. i dont get how you can say that. what about gaffney for a DT who never played? your giving elway a huge pass here dude. wow. he is not elway the player anymore. some of his moves are dumb and aint pay off.

[VonSackemMiller]

How many times did you have the privilege to be in the Broncos' locker room?

Lloyd has never been known as being a locker room cancer. All he did was go out and play football with a smile on his face as a bronco. I dont ever remember lloyd causing problems or any actual factual reports about lloyd disrupting the locker room or team. and at the end of the day he left it all out on the field. diving for balls putting his face in the dirt for this team.

[Elevation inc]

hey good news we resigned jeremy jarmon to a 2012 futres contract so he will be back next year, and he was the DT we traded gaffney for then cut...lol

[catfish]

Wouldnt have benefitted anyone but tim tebow? what the hell? whats wrong with that benefittin tebow? is it a bad thing for tebow to have a number one WR? having lloyd benefits the entire offense and how defenses would have had to play us. i dont get how you can say that. what about gaffney for a DT who never played? your giving elway a huge pass here dude. wow. he is not elway the player anymore. some of his moves are dumb and aint pay off.

looking at it for this year only you are correct, however having Lloyd in there wouldn't have given the FO a chance to analyze what positions they need to bring in to supplement the talent that will be on the team in the future, can DT be a got to#1 guy, will Decker suffice as a #2. How will the oline hold up with Tebow behind them etc etc. All question answered, or at least closer to being answered due to Lloyd being gone. So while the question of can Tebow perform with a true experienced #1 may not have been answered, there are less questions about 7-10 other players on the team. I think the goal this year was to evaluate, so the Lloyd move makes sense considering he wanted to go

[MileHighOC]

Wouldnt have benefitted anyone but tim tebow? what the hell? whats wrong with that benefittin tebow? is it a bad thing for tebow to have a number one WR? having lloyd benefits the entire offense and how defenses would have had to play us. i dont get how you can say that. what about gaffney for a DT who never played? your giving elway a huge pass here dude. wow. he is not elway the player anymore. some of his moves are dumb and aint pay off.

Agreed... Helping out a young qb , which in return helps out a young offense , which also helps a team trying to mke the playoffs, is a bad thing?

With the pick we got, we can draft a backup Long snapper..

[TXBRONC]

lmao. . . somebody's actually still upset about that loser lloyd?

:lol:

Well it's Tebow fanboi so makes sense.

[VonSackemMiller]

gaffney this year for the skins.... 70 catches, 950 yards, 5 touchdowns

Lloyd with the rams 51 catches, 700 yards 5 touchdowns

these are guys we gave away for nothing. smh

[Elevation inc]

Lloyd has never been known as being a locker room cancer. All he did was go out and play football with a smile on his face as a bronco. I dont ever remember lloyd causing problems or any actual factual reports about lloyd disrupting the locker room or team. and at the end of the day he left it all out on the field. diving for balls putting his face in the dirt for this team.



well Im not so sure lloyd didnt cause anything, but the reality is that there is no proof he did, only rumors from inside sources.....so without facts we actually cant say he was a cancer.....due balled for denver and was a elite reciver here. he still is a beast this year as well, played for 5 different QB's this year and still avg 70 yds a game

[MileHighOC]

looking at it for this year only you are correct, however having Lloyd in there wouldn't have given the FO a chance to analyze what positions they need to bring in to supplement the talent that will be on the team in the future, can DT be a got to#1 guy, will Decker suffice as a #2. How will the oline hold up with Tebow behind them etc etc. All question answered, or at least closer to being answered due to Lloyd being gone. So while the question of can Tebow perform with a true experienced #1 may not have been answered, there are less questions about 7-10 other players on the team. I think the goal this year was to evaluate, so the Lloyd move makes sense considering he wanted to go

So what are the answers?? That we do not have WR that can get open on a marginal basis?
The oline is a great at run blocking and below avg pass blocking(young so ok with that)

[catfish]

Agreed... Helping out a young qb , which in return helps out a young offense , which also helps a team trying to mke the playoffs, is a bad thing?

With the pick we got, we can draft a backup Long snapper..

to be fair making the playoffs had to be the furthest thing from anyones mind when that all went down. I have faith the Elway will be able to evaluate the QB position taking into account the players around the QB. It's not like we are talking about someone who doesn't know the position. He will look at the things he want to see improvement on and if he feels there is improvement, coupled with progress in the offseason will make a decision. In that sense I don't feel trading Lloyd hurt Tebow either(except some of the circus will go away, thats a damn shame). I really think expectation for the season were pretty damn low after the first 5 games so this year was set up to be try outs

edit: regarding the players around the QB, while we sit here and argue back and forth on the subject of quality, Mr. Elway has the benefit of game footage and the playbook to be able to pinpoint exactly what happened. As well as being able to sit with Tebow and say what were you thinking here instead of guessing bad pass/throw away. So it narrows down execution v decision making

[Dreadnought]

I dont care about the scenerios dude, Pat bowlen shoulda sat cutler down and mcdaniels down in the same room. told both of them i dont care what happend prior. both of you are going to be here. both of you are going to make it work period because niether of you are going anywhere. Man up and go win some games and if you dont both of you will be shit canned.



That kind of tough guy posturing guarantees only losing and would have made things even worse. It would have been pure pure suicide for the organization. In any event Bowlen couldn't do it; he had just hired McDaniels and he couldn't cut his legs out from under him that early into it. The whole mess was an early warning that we were headed towards disaster, but the toothpaste was out of the tube by that point.

Asc far as your take on Lloyd I just think you are wrong.

[VonSackemMiller]

looking at it for this year only you are correct, however having Lloyd in there wouldn't have given the FO a chance to analyze what positions they need to bring in to supplement the talent that will be on the team in the future, can DT be a got to#1 guy, will Decker suffice as a #2. How will the oline hold up with Tebow behind them etc etc. All question answered, or at least closer to being answered due to Lloyd being gone. So while the question of can Tebow perform with a true experienced #1 may not have been answered, there are less questions about 7-10 other players on the team. I think the goal this year was to evaluate, so the Lloyd move makes sense considering he wanted to go

Oh okay so our young wideouts should have been handed there spots but its a problem when tebow was so called handed his spot? Damn thats crazy bro. give away a legit number one to see what a couple maybe players have. if thats elways formula for success he should be fired in a year or two.

[MileHighOC]

to be fair making the playoffs had to be the furthest thing from anyones mind when that all went down. I have faith the Elway will be able to evaluate the QB position taking into account the players around the QB. It's not like we are talking about someone who doesn't know the position. He will look at the things he want to see improvement on and if he feels there is improvement, coupled with progress in the offseason will make a decision. In that sense I don't feel trading Lloyd hurt Tebow either(except some of the circus will go away, thats a damn shame). I really think expectation for the season were pretty damn low after the first 5 games so this year was set up to be try outs

Question... Is that mindset ok? Hey we still have 11 games to go, but we are going to just play the rest of the season for tryouts.

I do wish the trade deadline was around week 8-10 . Perfect example of week 6 being way to early.. Might have kept Lloyd and been able to trade orton to where we wanted him and got a pick. Instead the opp happened

[BroncoNut]

Wouldnt have benefitted anyone but tim tebow? what the hell? whats wrong with that benefittin tebow? is it a bad thing for tebow to have a number one WR? having lloyd benefits the entire offense and how defenses would have had to play us. i dont get how you can say that. what about gaffney for a DT who never played? your giving elway a huge pass here dude. wow. he is not elway the player anymore. some of his moves are dumb and aint pay off.

that's about the only part of the post I would challenge too. we could've benefitted from Lloyd this season for sure. DT stepped up somewhat, but more catches would have been made, 3rd downs converted, and touchdown made imo.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

gaffney this year for the skins.... 70 catches, 950 yards, 5 touchdowns

Lloyd with the rams 51 catches, 700 yards 5 touchdowns

these are guys we gave away for nothing. smh

And boy - both the Rams and Skins had a marvelous season this year :eek:

[Buff]

My first instinct was to dismiss this thread as another worthless pile of crap... But the reality of the situation is that I first-guessed both of those moves as well, and I still don't particularly like either of them... The OP has a point, even if it wasn't delivered eloquently.

Both moves are more defensible because we ended up in the playoffs, but if the Raiders would have won and eliminated us it'd be pretty tough to defend the Orton move - especially when our offense only put up 3 points. The Chiefs have no chance in that game with Palko or Stanzi starting and the only thing our organization gained was $2 million.

I still don't think we got enough for Lloyd, but I don't think we got egregiously fleeced or anything. I think you can make a sound argument for both sides.

[MileHighOC]

And boy - both the Rams and Skins had a marvelous season this year :eek:

No but they are upgrades at the WR position and can get open, as well as catch the ball. We should have traded decker and royal and kept those 2

[VonSackemMiller]

And boy - both the Rams and Skins had a marvelous season this year :eek:

Cant blame lloyd or gaffney for that. there clearly doing there jobs. what about our WRs? there not doing a thing other than getting open a few times a game and dropping passes.

You see this is what i feared when we hired elway. that he would get a pass for **** ups. that hed have a bunch of elway the player apologist that brush his dumb decisions under the rug. decisions that will ultimately keep our team average. smh. If your going to sit here and tell me that giving away two WRs that combine for over 130 catches, 10 touchdowns, and over 1600 recieving yards for a 5th round pick and a DT who doesnt play was good for this team then WOW. :tsk:

[VonSackemMiller]

Question... Is that mindset ok? Hey we still have 11 games to go, but we are going to just play the rest of the season for tryouts.

I do wish the trade deadline was around week 8-10 . Perfect example of week 6 being way to early.. Might have kept Lloyd and been able to trade orton to where we wanted him and got a pick. Instead the opp happened

right thats a losers mentallity, hey were 2 games back in the divison, 11 games to go, lets go ahead and throw away talent to give young guys a look.

[weazel]

I would question moving Lloyd but they were giving Tebow his shot so they didnt need Orton.
But blaming Elway for a horrible team that made the playoffs is laughable

[Buff]

I would question moving Lloyd but they were giving Tebow his shot so they didnt need Orton.
But blaming Elway for a horrible team that made the playoffs is laughable

I think the OP might have gotten a little better traction if he would have said "Two Questionable Moves Made by the Front Office" as opposed to "Elway has blown it twice."

Obviously he did more right than wrong given where that we won the division... But that doesn't mean cutting Orton was the right move to make for the team.

[TXBRONC]

Different scenario. Cutler didn't want to be here because McDaniels was a douche and Cutler didn't trust the organization once it was in McD's hands. He was probably right about that too. Lloyd was just a sorehead with a lot of mileage on him and a questionable attitude. Getting rid of him was addition by subtraction, or at worst a solid move in a rebuilding year.

Lloyd was shipped out for more than just he didn't want to be in Denver. I've Paige, Vic and Gary, and I think even Spano have said that there is reason to believe Lloyd was anonymous source that told Silver that Tebow is seen as the 4th best quarterback on the team.

[VonSackemMiller]

My first instinct was to dismiss this thread as another worthless pile of crap... But the reality of the situation is that I first-guessed both of those moves as well, and I still don't particularly like either of them... The OP has a point, even if it wasn't delivered eloquently.

Both moves are more defensible because we ended up in the playoffs, but if the Raiders would have won and eliminated us it'd be pretty tough to defend the Orton move - especially when our offense only put up 3 points. The Chiefs have no chance in that game with Palko or Stanzi starting and the only thing our organization gained was $2 million.

I still don't think we got enough for Lloyd, but I don't think we got egregiously fleeced or anything. I think you can make a sound argument for both sides.


and what about gaffney for a trash DT who never played? gaffney has 70 catches 950 yards and 5 touchdowns for the skins. we got nothing for him either. were just dishing away talent for nothing.

[TXBRONC]

I would question moving Lloyd but they were giving Tebow his shot so they didnt need Orton.
But blaming Elway for a horrible team that made the playoffs is laughable

Damn you Elway we made the playoffs. :confused:

[Dreadnought]

Lloyd was shipped out for more than just he didn't want to be in Denver. I've Paige, Vic and Gary, and I think even Spano have said that there is reason to believe Lloyd was anonymous source that told Silver that Tebow is seen as the 4th best quarterback on the team.

Oh, I fully believe that on a gut basis. I do think there was enough solid info coming from reputable sources that the pieces fit together well - certainly enough to explain the trade easily.

[TXBRONC]

I think the OP might have gotten a little better traction if he would have said "Two Questionable Moves Made by the Front Office" as opposed to "Elway has blown it twice."

Obviously he did more right than wrong given where that we won the division... But that doesn't mean cutting Orton was the right move to make for the team.

If Woody Paige is right Orton wasn't cut free just to save two million dollars. According Paige's source behind close doors Orton was acting like a leader.

[VonSackemMiller]

I would question moving Lloyd but they were giving Tebow his shot so they didnt need Orton.
But blaming Elway for a horrible team that made the playoffs is laughable

Elway wasnt even thinking about the playoffs and he hated the fact that we started winning when tebow was inserted. these are obvious things, but of course elway apologist are going to deny this. Elway didnt take us anywhere. Please. hes not under center anymore. Elway wanted to lose lose lose and draft luck. playoffs was far out of his mind. he had givin up on winning for the year.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

gaffney this year for the skins.... 70 catches, 950 yards, 5 touchdowns

Lloyd with the rams 51 catches, 700 yards 5 touchdowns

these are guys we gave away for nothing. smh

Decker had 44 catches, 612 yards, 8 touchdowns this year

http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=DEN

[Dreadnought]

Elway wasnt even thinking about the playoffs and he hated the fact that we started winning when tebow was inserted. these are obvious things, but of course elway apologist are going to deny this. Elway didnt take us anywhere. Please. hes not under center anymore. Elway wanted to lose lose lose and draft luck. playoffs was far out of his mind. he had givin up on winning for the year.

Well, you have just permanently discredited yourself there. Nice job. Hard to do it in only one paragraph, but you just summed up the infamous Jagsbch fever swamp theory in way fewer words.

[catfish]

Question... Is that mindset ok? Hey we still have 11 games to go, but we are going to just play the rest of the season for tryouts.

I do wish the trade deadline was around week 8-10 . Perfect example of week 6 being way to early.. Might have kept Lloyd and been able to trade orton to where we wanted him and got a pick. Instead the opp happened

if the purpose of the first year of a rebuild was to make the playoffs then the mentalitly was poor, more likely they were willing to sacrifice short term success for long term, and ended up fluking into success

[weazel]

Elway wasnt even thinking about the playoffs and he hated the fact that we started winning when tebow was inserted. these are obvious things, but of course elway apologist are going to deny this. Elway didnt take us anywhere. Please. hes not under center anymore. Elway wanted to lose lose lose and draft luck. playoffs was far out of his mind. he had givin up on winning for the year.

ridiculous... I think Elway killed Kurt Cobain, too

[jhildebrand]

Elway is responsible for global warming, too.

[catfish]

Elway is responsible for global warming, too.

also all those lonely puppies and kittens in the humane society commercials

[weazel]

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335086

[BORDERLINE]

There's the situation. He was in a contract year as an unrestricted free agent in 2012. He wasn't coming back here, so why not get something for him?

And all we could get was a F'N 5th rounder? A 6th actually that turned into a 5th right?

Look if he was gonna come back or not you don't just trade a pro-bowl WR for a 5th round pick didn't Bmarsh come off of his pro-bowl and warranted 2 2nd round picks.

We could really use a guy like Lloyd right now. Teebs would just chuck the ball deep and I like Lloyds chances of coming down with that ball. The defense would play Denver a little softer with a deep threat.

If we would have gotten a 3rd round pick I guess it would have been an even trade but a 5th. We all know there are steals to be had in the draft but c'mon Lloyd was a true PRO with Talent and you just don't let that kind of guy go.

[vandammage13]

Elway is responsible for global warming, too.

What global warming?? It's pretty damn cold where I'm at.

[rcsodak]

Lloyd came out and said he'd follow McD whereever he goes, because McD is the only one that knows how to use him.

Face it Lloyd...you just aren't that good. :laugh:

5 different teams now and 1 decent season. Shut yo mouth already.
51 catches from 3 different qb's, almost 700yds and 5td's with not much for complementary help.

Not sure why your disdain for him. He played his ass off for denver and was by far the best offensive player.

He was interviewed regularly on sirius and is highly cordial and complimentary to his teammates.

He's acknowledged his earlier immaturity, along with bum raps, and is now being used to his strengths.

:shrugs:

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Nomad]

Elway is responsible for global warming, too.

Damn him......... http://www.savethepolarbear.org/

[catfish]

that's about the only part of the post I would challenge too. we could've benefitted from Lloyd this season for sure. DT stepped up somewhat, but more catches would have been made, 3rd downs converted, and touchdown made imo.

as far as winning, or ease of the QB position I agree, but would you know that DT has potential to be special or still think he is a bust, would you know that Decker has possibilites as a middle#2 or a great #3. The issues at some point of the line might not be so glaring, but would that be a good thing? If they didn't need to rely on the run game as much would McGahee be seen as great, or just a tired old re-tread, would you see the drop off from him to ball? Would Johnson have even seen the field. I am just saying that evaluation wise, Tebow is probably the only one that is realistically harder to evaluate without Llyod.

Didn't mean it as a comment on the competitveness of the team as a whole. Step 1 of a rebuild is always evaluate what you got, step 2 is fill holes, step 3 is bring in high $ talent at key positions to put you over the hump to the SB. This year is step 1, hopefully between this draft and next step 2 will complete and after season after next you will just be elite talent(and a bit of fate) away from a championship

[rcsodak]

Marshall still outperformed Lloyd yet again. This behind 2-3 different QB's this year.
Lloyd had 3qb's (feeley/clements/injured bradford)throwing to him. A pourous OL, and no complementary help in a 1st yr offensive scheme with no offseason.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[NightTerror218]

Decker had 44 catches, 612 yards, 8 touchdowns this year

http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=DEN

Decker should have more if he did drop so many.

[dogfish]

Reggie wayne is still elite. And who said we had to pay the man a ton of cash? wayne can show our pups a ton about running great routes and catching balls. how to seperate. when to accelerate. because clearly whoever our WR coach is aint doin it

uhhh, his agent will be the one saying we have to pay him a ton of cash-- this isn't madden. . . :lol:




No but they are upgrades at the WR position and can get open, as well as catch the ball. We should have traded decker and royal and kept those 2

rebuilding by rolling with old guys and ditching all the young talent because they (shockingly!) don't play like vets yet. . . now that is brilliant. . .

:lol::lol:

[MileHighOC]

if the purpose of the first year of a rebuild was to make the playoffs then the mentalitly was poor, more likely they were willing to sacrifice short term success for long term, and ended up fluking into success

That doesn't make sense for the orton trade though.

It's obvious to anyone with half a brain the Lloyd trade was waving the white flag for the year. Yes call it a rebuilding year or whatever fox was going to have more then 1 year here so he wasn't going to lose his job over a 3-13 season.

Denver screwed up by not making a deal before the season with orton and giving Tebow the keys and then had to yank them back to give to orton on a failed deal, then a 1-4 start to put us in hole that Tebow climbed us out off then gave orton away FOr free that beat us and did their job to keep us out except the faders faded away like usual. The whole qb thing from day 1 has been a dang mess

[catfish]

uhhh, his agent will be the one saying we have to pay him a ton of cash-- this isn't madden. . . :lol:





rebuilding by rolling with old guys and ditching all the young talent because they (shockingly!) don't play like vets yet. . . now that is brilliant. . .

:lol::lol:

plus any deficiencies with any part of the Offense is going to be highlighted by the youth at all other positions, its not like the O is anchored by a core group of vets, they are all young. There is no vet qb to bail out the line, wr etc, same with Receivers bailing out the QB, or line protecting a young QB. It is a result of youth if one portion has a below average game, chances of another portion picking up the slack are low....offseason will see if it changes

[VonSackemMiller]

Lol at the characters trying to turn the thread into something stupid. i basically owned all elway apologist so my points have been made and stamped. You can talk about global warming but so far elway has done nothing but the same thing mcd did. give away talent for NOTHING.

goodbye.

[MileHighOC]

Who is the WR leader?? Royal?? Love the guy but he isn't that good at WR

[rcsodak]

If ANY of that is true he is a bigger douchebag than i thought.
I wouldnt put it past woody as being the douche. Lloyd prolly told him something in confidence and woody took it and ran with it.

Just the other side of the coin, pov.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[dogfish]

so far elway has done nothing but the same thing mcd did.

really, mcdaniels built a playoff team in denver when i wasn't looking?


stop being a clown. . .


:welcome:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

QUESTION: The Rams are expecting big things out of wide receiver Brandon Lloyd, whom they picked up in a trade Monday with Denver. However, if Lloyd is an impact player, why were the Broncos willing to part with him simply for a conditional sixth-round draft pick?

JIM THOMAS

A lot of it has to do with Lloyd’s contract status. He’s up after this season and the Broncos were concerned he might spend the rest of the year brooding over his lack of a new deal. For all his skill, Lloyd can be high maintenance at times, and until his breakout year of 2010 he has been an underachiever over the course of his NFL career. Lastly, John Fox is a run-oriented head coach and with Tim Tebow now at QB footballs won’t exactly be flying all over Invesco Field at Mile High.

BRYAN BURWELL

Lloyd wanted out of Denver and wasn’t going to re-sign in the offseason so this was a way for the Broncos to get minimal compensation while going with a youth movement with their receiving corps. This is a win-win situation for the Rams, as well. They bring in a proven NFL deep threat who has the rest of the season to prove his value as a guy the Rams should sign to a long term deal.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/round-two/article_05fe4816-f9b2-11e0-94f8-0019bb30f31a.html

By the way, these are comments by St. Louis sportswriters - not Denver sportswriters

[GEM]

uhh lately hes been worth top money. like it or not. Dont know where this leaking stuff is coming from. But okay keep reaching.

Does he change games? Can he put an offense on his back and win? Can he make those around him better? Is he a character guy?

The guy's stats are 20th in the league and you want to pay him top 3 money?

Hell.....I want you around when I need a raise!!

[MOtorboat]

Lol at the characters trying to turn the thread into something stupid. i basically owned all elway apologist so my points have been made and stamped. You can talk about global warming but so far elway has done nothing but the same thing mcd did. give away talent for NOTHING.

goodbye.

When you declare victory, you've lost.

[GEM]

Lol at the characters trying to turn the thread into something stupid. i basically owned all elway apologist so my points have been made and stamped. You can talk about global warming but so far elway has done nothing but the same thing mcd did. give away talent for NOTHING.

goodbye.

With that goodbye, does it mean you're leaving? :pray:

[rcsodak]

I am glad we let Orton go, freed up a roster spot. But Tebow still could be or he could not be. I think we will know when the draft comes. Elway said he is going to work with Tebow over summer. He will have first hand experience if Tebow is progressing. If he is not making any progression in that time before draft Elway will prob draft a QB higher then the fans want. If he is making progressions then he will prob be the starter for the 2012 season.

Lol

You do realize the draft is BEFORE the summer, right?

Elway will have to make a choice BEFORE playing teacher.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[jhildebrand]

You can talk about global warming but so far elway has done nothing but the same thing mcd did. give away talent for NOTHING.

goodbye.

He gave away a young probowl WR with his entire career ahead of him?
He gave away a young probowl QB with his entire career ahead of him?

He traded a 4th round pick for what RB?
He traded a king's ransom for a QB nobody would touch in the first?
He traded a first to draft a midget in the second?
He traded up for a TE who can't catch, block, or play?
He traded away a TE to a team only to turn around and trade for the TE the previous TE replaced?

Your're right, Sack! My apologies! Elway HAS done the exact same thing!

[NightTerror218]

Lol

You do realize the draft is BEFORE the summer, right?

Elway will have to make a choice BEFORE playing teacher.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

what day is the draft? April? That is a few months away.

[catfish]

He gave away a young probowl WR with his entire career ahead of him?
He gave away a young probowl QB with his entire career ahead of him?

He traded a 4th round pick for what RB?
He traded a king's ransom for a QB nobody would touch in the first?
He traded a first to draft a midget in the second?
He traded up for a TE who can't catch, block, or play?
He traded away a TE to a team only to turn around and trade for the TE the previous TE replaced?

Your're right, Sack! My apologies! Elway HAS done the exact same thing!

Luck is going to demand a Kings ransom, Tebow was an Earl's ransom at best ;)

[rcsodak]

I remember that play as well...It was almost as if Royal wasn't expecting the ball to come his way, as if it was a dummy route or something...The guy slowed down and then sped back up when he saw TT actually threw the ball his way....Should have been a long completion. Totally on Royal there.

TT has been sucking beyond what I even thought was possible for him these last few weeks, but these WR's are unquestionably at or near #32 in the league.

Even when he does manage to put it on the numbers they seem to drop the ball half the time. Matt Willis on that last drive dropped that deep pass that could have kept the miracle finishes going. Ball hit him right in the chest.

TT is certainly doing more bad than good right now, which is a tough pill for me to swallow because I truly have high hopes for this guy...But the WR's seem to be constantly failing when they are given an opportunity to make a play and help out their QB.

I'm not sure there would be many young QB's that would have much success with the way our recievers have been playing...If it weren't for TT's legs, this team would be 0-11 in his starts, because the combination of his horrid accuracy and the caliber of our WR's is a recipe for disaster.
As Simms said during the game, though.
Wr's need to find a rhythm of their own.
Waiting til the waning minutes of a game isnt how to go about that.

Iirc, marshall had bad games if he wasnt targeted early/often.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[VonSackemMiller]

really, mcdaniels built a playoff team in denver when i wasn't looking?


stop being a clown. . .


:welcome:

dude you do realize that outside of von miller everybody else thats making any plays for this team are guys that mcdaniels brung in or guys that was here before elway got here right? Hmm other than McGahee signing what has elway built? defense fell off when dawkins fell out...a mcdaniels guy.

team was 1-4 headed down the dumps untill tebow was inserted. a mcdaniels guy. smh im not even wasting my time arguing this shit here because its a waste of my time. Give elway credit for nothing. Not critical of elways **** ups. elway fanbois at its best. goodbye

[jhildebrand]

Luck is going to demand a Kings ransom, Tebow was an Earl's ransom at best ;)

Call it what you like. Baltimore calls it laughing all the way to the draft :tsk:

[VonSackemMiller]

Does he change games? Can he put an offense on his back and win? Can he make those around him better? Is he a character guy?

The guy's stats are 20th in the league and you want to pay him top 3 money?

Hell.....I want you around when I need a raise!!

does he change games? omg this shit is super funny. Fitzgeral was a part of a cards team that was picking top 10. does he change games? does steve smith change games? his team had the number one pick? You people are making this too easy for me lol

[dogfish]

dude you do realize that outside of von miller everybody else thats making any plays for this team are guys that mcdaniels brung in or guys that was here before elway got here right? Hmm other than McGahee signing what has elway built? defense fell off when dawkins fell out...a mcdaniels guy.

team was 1-4 headed down the dumps untill tebow was inserted. a mcdaniels guy. smh im not even wasting my time arguing this shit here because its a waste of my time. Give elway credit for nothing. Not critical of elways **** ups. elway fanbois at its best. goodbye

dennis allen-- look him up. . .


:welcome:


and quit saying goodbye unless you're leaving. . .

[jhildebrand]

dude you do realize that outside of von miller everybody else thats making any plays for this team are guys that mcdaniels brung in or guys that was here before elway got here right? Hmm other than McGahee signing what has elway built? defense fell off when dawkins fell out...a mcdaniels guy.

team was 1-4 headed down the dumps untill tebow was inserted. a mcdaniels guy. smh im not even wasting my time arguing this shit here because its a waste of my time. Give elway credit for nothing. Not critical of elways **** ups. elway fanbois at its best. goodbye

Orton wasn't a McD guy? Hochstein who got owned again? Of course they aren't elway guys! He just got the role. Give it some time, DAMN.

[catfish]

Call it what you like. Baltimore calls it laughing all the way to the draft :tsk:

sorry that was meant to be tongue in cheek, i dont feel he was worth a 1st rounder, much less being packaged for.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Lol at the characters trying to turn the thread into something stupid. i basically owned all elway apologist so my points have been made and stamped. You can talk about global warming but so far elway has done nothing but the same thing mcd did. give away talent for NOTHING.

goodbye.

Well, in that case, since you basically own all Elway apologists, I would assume you will be looking for a new forum for your next challenge.

[VonSackemMiller]

dennis allen-- look him up. . .


:welcome:


and quit saying goodbye unless you're leaving. . .

I could have sworn elway allowed John Fox to assemble his own staff......I mean thats usually how it goes. Elway hired John Fox, John Fox assembled his staff. Thats the name of the game in every organization. You dont force feed your HC to work with whoever you want them to work with.

[VonSackemMiller]

Well, in that case, since you basically own all Elway apologists, I would assume you will be looking for a new forum for your next challenge.

No because not everybody is elway apologist clearly. Its obvious the ones who are going to give elway a pass for his screw ups, Its obvious the ones who are never going to hold elway accountable. I mean its okay though. Elway can keep on giving away talent for free. Its okay because elway did it.

[dogfish]

I could have sworn elway allowed John Fox to assemble his own staff......I mean thats usually how it goes. Elway hired John Fox, John Fox assembled his staff. Thats the name of the game in every organization. You dont force feed your HC to work with whoever you want them to work with.

oh. . . well if that's the case, why are you whining about elway trading lloyd?

brian xanders has final say over the roster. . .

:welcome:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

No because not everybody is elway apologist clearly. Its obvious the ones who are going to give elway a pass for his screw ups, Its obvious the ones who are never going to hold elway accountable. I mean its okay though. Elway can keep on giving away talent for free. Its okay because elway did it.

It should also be obvious that those who do not agree with you, do not, because you are so WRONG in regards to #7.

[MOtorboat]

does he change games? omg this shit is super funny. Fitzgeral was a part of a cards team that was picking top 10. does he change games? does steve smith change games? his team had the number one pick? You people are making this too easy for me lol

You just completely contradicted the general team-building philosophy you've been espousing for the last three days.

Congratulations on that.

[VonSackemMiller]

oh. . . well if that's the case, why are you whining about elway trading lloyd?

brian xanders has final say over the roster. . .

:welcome:

Dude you dennis allen is not a player. your bouncing all over the place. lol im done :eek:

[VonSackemMiller]

It should also be obvious that those who do not agree with you, do not, because you are so WRONG in regards to #7.

Thats the thing he is not #7 anymore, hes John Elway the vice president. smh:tsk:

[Dzone]

LMAO...great stuff! This is a lot more fun than reading the same old espn.com drivel.

[GEM]

Dude you dennis allen is not a player. your bouncing all over the place. lol im done :eek:

Since you're done and goodbye....are you leaving yet?

[Nomad]

So what are you trying to prove here Sackem?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Thats the thing he is not #7 anymore, hes John Elway the vice president. smh:tsk:

He's whatever anyone wants him to be - you have your opinion, I, and everyone else, have their opinion, and to me, he will always be #7.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

So what are you trying to prove here Sackem?

I know what he has proved to me, and it has nothing to do with football.:eek:

[Krugan]

So I just spent several minutes reading all this, and im sad now and want those minutes back :(

[VonSackemMiller]

Since you're done and goodbye....are you leaving yet?

Nope because its cold outside and i have nothing to do yet. You want me out? Why you want me out? Wassup with that?

[GEM]

He's whatever anyone wants him to be - you have your opinion, I, and everyone else, have their opinion, and to me, he will always be #7.

And even in his old age and having been retired over a decade....he could probably suit up and show Tebow how it's done. :laugh:

There is only so much a team can do with a QB who can't do what a QB does.

[GEM]

Nope because its cold outside and i have nothing to do yet. You want me out? Why you want me out? Wassup with that?

Then quit saying goodbye and I'm out. You sound like a jr high kid who just thinks he won a rap battle on the playground.

[VonSackemMiller]

So what are you trying to prove here Sackem?

I think ive proved it. Elway is a rookie acting like he has it all figured out. Just like mcdaniels was and in the process these rookies are passing around talent for free to the rest of the league as the league laughs at us. I thought that crap was over when mcd left. apparently its not.