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View Full Version : Goodbye Tebow.....Hello Matt Flynn



WARHORSE
01-02-2012, 07:45 PM
I love Tebow. But hes not the answer. Ive seen enough.

Unless he absolutely lights it up on sunday and takes us to the AFC Championship game, hes gonna have to sit.


We wont be in position to draft a top QB, but Flynn has once again, with the opportunity given, played great.


We should keep Tebow and play him at RB/FB/Wildhorse QB/goaline threat.

6 for 22, bad decisions, and inability to bring it higher after 15 starts....is enough evidence for me.

I want him on our team. Hes a leader. But hes not a QB.

Sorry Gator fans and Tebow apololgists.


We need to go in a different direction, and I wouldnt even be mad if they started Quinn this weekend. Not saying it should or would happen, Im just sayin I wouldnt be mad.

underrated29
01-02-2012, 07:48 PM
Kevin kolb gives this thread two thumbs up!

BroncoWave
01-02-2012, 07:50 PM
Kevin kolb gives this thread two thumbs up!

Matt Schaub and Steve Young also say hi. Not saying Flynn will be like those guys, but it's silly to discredit him because of the failure of another player.

Npba900
01-02-2012, 07:56 PM
I love Tebow. But hes not the answer. Ive seen enough.

Unless he absolutely lights it up on sunday and takes us to the AFC Championship game, hes gonna have to sit.


We wont be in position to draft a top QB, but Flynn has once again, with the opportunity given, played great.


We should keep Tebow and play him at RB/FB/Wildhorse QB/goaline threat.

6 for 22, bad decisions, and inability to bring it higher after 15 starts....is enough evidence for me.

I want him on our team. Hes a leader. But hes not a QB.

Sorry Gator fans and Tebow apololgists.


We need to go in a different direction, and I wouldnt even be mad if they started Quinn this weekend. Not saying it should or would happen, Im just sayin I wouldnt be mad.

So does this mean in 2012 Elway pulls Tebow aside and ask him how he would feel making the position switch to TE!!!!

FLYNN TO TEBOW......TOUCH DOWN BABY!!!!:cool:

MasterShake
01-02-2012, 07:59 PM
I'm not willing to take a chance on another starting QB right now, despite Tebow's struggles. Not with so many other pressing needs on this team.

I'm willing to give him the next week, one more FULL offseason and maybe a new offensive coordinator before I throw in the towel on him. His 11 game audition got us a 7-4 record and a home playoff berth with a AFC West title. I think that bought him at least a half a season next year in my mind.

Now if we had a chance at a higher pick? Yeah, but Tebow played us out of that scenario and he deserves a shot IMO. But thank god its not up to me, I'm happy just watching. I'll leave that important decision stuff to Elway and company whom I trust completely... for now.

underrated29
01-02-2012, 07:59 PM
Matt Schaub and Steve Young also say hi. Not saying Flynn will be like those guys, but it's silly to discredit him because of the failure of another player.



I think there is a slight difference between who those qbs surrounding cast was and his many games they played.

Hell, bubby bristor led our team to like 7the wins when elway was out and the bubby was a bad backup

Dzone
01-02-2012, 08:00 PM
Signing Flynn or similar should be a priority.
How many more 3 and outs do we have to endure?
LMA0@Flynn to Tebow!

Broncos Mtnman
01-02-2012, 08:06 PM
I love Tebow. But hes not the answer. Ive seen enough.

Unless he absolutely lights it up on sunday and takes us to the AFC Championship game, hes gonna have to sit.


We wont be in position to draft a top QB, but Flynn has once again, with the opportunity given, played great.


We should keep Tebow and play him at RB/FB/Wildhorse QB/goaline threat.

6 for 22, bad decisions, and inability to bring it higher after 15 starts....is enough evidence for me.

I want him on our team. Hes a leader. But hes not a QB.

Sorry Gator fans and Tebow apololgists.


We need to go in a different direction, and I wouldnt even be mad if they started Quinn this weekend. Not saying it should or would happen, Im just sayin I wouldnt be mad.

Couldn't agree more with getting rid of Tim the Terrible, but if you think a player like Flynn would be that good under Foxy, you're crazy.

Tebow's lack of ability is definitely the major problem, but Fox and Co.'s 70s-style offense would still suck even with a talented QB.

dogfish
01-02-2012, 08:07 PM
Kevin kolb gives this thread two thumbs up!

no shit. . .

flynn has a chance to be a very good QB, but you simply can't make that determination based on about six quarters worth of pro play, in an offensive machine. . .

somebody is going to pay this guy fifty or sixty million dollars, essentially blind. . . because that's what quarterbacks cost these days-- chumps like matt cassell and kolb got that much. . . tony romo probably got more. . .

and there just isn't anywhere close to enough film to legitimately evaluate the guy. . . not to mention, green bay isn't exactly stupid-- you really think they'll just let him walk? there's a very good chance they'll franchise him, and whoever wants him will have to pay through the nose just to obtain the privilege of throwing up a wing and a prayer and vastly overpaying the guy. . . AZ gave up a high pick and a pro bowl capable young talent just to put kolb on their bench. . .


yea, no thanks. . .

Joel
01-02-2012, 08:11 PM
Matt Schaub and Steve Young also say hi. Not saying Flynn will be like those guys, but it's silly to discredit him because of the failure of another player.
Completely unimpressed with Schaub; he could easily have run into the corner of the end zone on the last play against the Raiders and won the game, but forced an easy pick instead. The Texans are right behind Denver as my favorite team, and I'd personally like to see Leinart battle Schaub for the starting job next year; he looked surprisingly good until he broke his collar bone.

Steve Young is an apples to oranges comparison; he wasn't an obscure backup who suddenly rocketed to fame and popularity relieving a great offenses injured star. The Bucs DUMPED him on SF:

"The Buccaneers selected University of Miami quarterback Vinny Testaverde first overall in the 1987 NFL Draft because Young was deemed a bust, and he was traded to the San Francisco 49ers on April 24, 1987, to serve as a backup to Joe Montana."

So the moral of that story isn't "grab the first backup QB who does well in a few games with a world class offense" but "don't switch horses in midstream."

Seriously, Tebow has two bad games and suddenly folks have "seen enough" because the sky is falling? And we'll just completely ignore the 7 good games that got us to the playoffs. He must get better, but neither the good nor bad games tell the whole tale of the season (though there are three times as many of the former,) much less the career. He took a big step backward last week, but that's no more reason to throw in the towel than the many previous steps forward were reason to declare him a life time starter.

Wait, I know: Let's TRADE Tebow for Flynn PLUS the Colts #1 overall pick; it worked with Cutler, right? No? Maybe just keep doing what we're doing then. ;)

BroncoStud
01-02-2012, 08:12 PM
Not that Tebow is playing well - at ALL. But unless you are going to bring over the Packers offensive coaching staff and WRs with Flynn, how do we know he will do ANYTHING productive in Denver?

Anyone thinking that a Mike McCoy offense can even come close to touching what the Green Bay Packers do on offense is simply not being rational.

MasterShake
01-02-2012, 08:12 PM
no shit. . .

flynn has a chance to be a very good QB, but you simply can't make that determination based on about six quarters worth of pro play, in an offensive machine. . .

somebody is going to pay this guy fifty or sixty million dollars, essentially blind. . . because that's what quarterbacks cost these days-- chumps like matt cassell and kolb got that much. . . tony romo probably got more. . .

and there just isn't anywhere close to enough film to legitimately evaluate the guy. . . not to mention, green bay isn't exactly stupid-- you really think they'll just let him walk? there's a very good chance they'll franchise him, and whoever wants him will have to pay through the nose just to obtain the privilege of throwing up a wing and a prayer and vastly overpaying the guy. . . AZ gave up a high pick and a pro bowl capable young talent just to put kolb on their bench. . .


yea, no thanks. . .

Great point. This could wind up very much like what happened with KC with Cassel.

Npba900
01-02-2012, 08:14 PM
I'm not willing to take a chance on another starting QB right now, despite Tebow's struggles. Not with so many other pressing needs on this team.

I'm willing to give him the next week, one more FULL offseason and maybe a new offensive coordinator before I throw in the towel on him. His 11 game audition got us a 7-4 record and a home playoff berth with a AFC West title. I think that bought him at least a half a season next year in my mind.

Now if we had a chance at a higher pick? Yeah, but Tebow played us out of that scenario and he deserves a shot IMO. But thank god its not up to me, I'm happy just watching. I'll leave that important decision stuff to Elway and company whom I trust completely... for now.

Bringing in Flynn isn't throwing in the towel on Tebow. Signing Flynn is an insurance policy to make sure Tebow is pushed in the off season, training camp and the preseason!

Point is, Tebow has a shit load of improvements to work on in the off season and how better to drive Tebow to get better than to bring in some competition.

Orton had competition with Tebow and wilted under the pressure why not do the same to Tebow?

Joel
01-02-2012, 08:20 PM
Couldn't agree more with getting rid of Tim the Terrible, but if you think a player like Flynn would be that good under Foxy, you're crazy.
He was terrible in 2 games and quite good AS A PASSER in at least as many others; he also won 5 more running, or running/passing. Big picture, guys. For one thing, I agree very much with your second point:

Tebow's lack of ability is definitely the major problem, but Fox and Co.'s 70s-style offense would still suck even with a talented QB.
Calling this a '70s style offense does a great disservice to some really good '70s teams (e.g. the Cowboys and Vikings) familiar with the concept of passing. It MIGHT be a '70s style COLLEGE offense (which may explain why Tebow's 7-4 this year) but this much running hasn't been the NFL norm since at least the '50s, and probably more like the '40s. Regardless of the timeline though, the point is valid: Neither Matt Flynn nor anyone else will throw 6 TDs in a game under John Fox, so dumping Tebow won't really solve that problem. Whether or not Tebow CAN be developed into a good pro passer, John Fox is probably the LEAST qualified NFL coach for that job. Thank God for Elway, because he may be the only one in the entire Broncos organization who knows how to use, let alone BUILD, a great NFL passer.

Npba900
01-02-2012, 08:24 PM
Not that Tebow is playing well - at ALL. But unless you are going to bring over the Packers offensive coaching staff and WRs with Flynn, how do we know he will do ANYTHING productive in Denver?

Anyone thinking that a Mike McCoy offense can even come close to touching what the Green Bay Packers do on offense is simply not being rational.

Mike McCoy's offense is limited because he has a QB that has limited passing abilities and who can't check down to his WR's to save his life!

Point is, Tebow's ability is so bad.....Tebow can actually get offensive coordinators FIRED!!!

In fact, Tebow's passing ability is so inconsistent, how do we know whether his own WR's haven't given up on him and just don't run crisp precise routs to get open, due to Tims inability to throw accurate passes.

The difference between Mike Flynn and Tebow is simple......Flynn is much more accurate and consistent than Tebow in the passing department.

Nomad
01-02-2012, 08:28 PM
Flynn is a champion. I don't know if I want Fox and McCoy tainting the guy.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/2008/0116_large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/11050/index.htm&h=575&w=442&sz=107&tbnid=ob8V1q01lQ2NUM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=72&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmatt%2Bflynn%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=matt+flynn&docid=igXNxoR8-rM4DM&sa=X&ei=aFkCT-22NMaKiALd5ciaDQ&ved=0CHoQ9QEwCg&dur=4200

HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2012, 08:39 PM
There is no comparison between Flynn and Schaub. Flynn was a 7th round draft pick. He is playing for the most pass happy system with some of the most talented WRs in the NFL.

A better comparison in Matt Cassel. Flynn, like Cassel, wasn't some draft screw up where everyone passed on an unknown player who turned out to be the next Tom Brady. Flynn just wasn't very good in college and won't be very good outside of a system with all-pro WRs, TE, and O-line.

Guys like Flynn scare the shit out of me. Schaub played well on an Atlanta team that wasn't overly talented and he was a 3rd round pick. Schaub showed competency in several games prior to being traded. Flynn has 6 quarters of work with the most talented offense in the league. The sirens are wailing on this one...

Krugan
01-02-2012, 08:39 PM
hehe, I love Broncos fans over reaction to everything...

quick hurry up and sign flynn and his 1 game wonder show, on he best team in the NFL right now

bunch of overreacting sallys

Joel
01-02-2012, 08:41 PM
Mike McCoy's offense is limited because he has a QB that has limited passing abilities and who can't check down to his WR's to save his life!

Point is, Tebow's ability is so bad.....Tebow can actually get offensive coordinators FIRED!!!

In fact, Tebow's passing ability is so inconsistent, how do we know whether his own WR's haven't given up on him and just don't run crisp precise routs to get open, due to Tims inability to throw accurate passes.

The difference between Mike Flynn and Tebow is simple......Flynn is much more accurate and consistent than Tebow in the passing department.
Mike McCoys offense is limited because Fox wouldn't throw many passes WHOEVER was under center. After making the playoffs with 3 lucky OT regular season wins (he's the only coach in NFL history to do that in multiple seasons, and got another playoff trip from it,) then making the SB with yet ANOTHER OT win, he probably lost said Super Bowl because he waited until the 4th quarter to take the handcuffs off Delhommes passing. The result? According to Wikipedia, "This was the start of another scoring explosion, one that became one of the biggest explosions in Super Bowl history, with both teams scoring a combined 37 points in the last 15 minutes, the most ever in a single quarter of a Super Bowl." Unfortunately, Fox didn't commit to passing until already down by 11, and lost the game by a FG.

Does any of that sound vaguely familiar, folks? "Oh, we're down 2 scores in the 4th quarter; I guess we can pass now--hope they aren't expecting it! ;)"

People can lay that all on Tebow if they wish, but guess what: A QB who runs more than he passes is ideally suited to an offense that runs twice as often as it passes. Another QB well suited to that offense is one who throws highly accurate short passes; we went 1-4 with that QB. Fixing our offense requires a great deal more than fixing Tebow; good pass blocking, receivers who get open and catch balls, plus coaches who don't refuse to pass unless trailing late and/or facing third and long, would help immensely.

Fix all that and I suspect most of the Tebow problems would fix themselves in a year or two; I don't blame Tebow being afraid to throw in this offense: Your coach doesn't want you to even if you're good at it, your receivers don't consistently get open or catch and your linemen will let a DE cream you while you try. Are they working around Tebows deficiencies--or is he working around THEIRS? Personally, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle (if only because the law of averages says it usually does.) I just wish the other problems could be as easily fixed by some off season mentoring from Elway.

SoCalImport
01-02-2012, 08:48 PM
draft a QB in the 2nd-3rd as a little insurance. Tebow may still turn this thing around. Give him an offseason and don't break the bank on a QB bidding war

Npba900
01-02-2012, 08:50 PM
hehe, I love Broncos fans over reaction to everything...

quick hurry up and sign flynn and his 1 game wonder show, on he best team in the NFL right now

bunch of overreacting sallys

Would you much rather Elway spend another year of futility with "I Can't Pass With Consistency Tebow"?

Tebow has spit-up a lung trying to show the entire football world that he can't throw the ball. Even his form and mechanics are horrible!

He looks like he's throwing a grenade vs throwing a football!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_296w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/early-lead/Images/Chiefs_Broncos_Football_0675c.jpg?

I doubt very seriously during the 6 months of the off season Tebow can correct the numerous passing deficiencies and fundamentals in his passing game. In fact, Tebow may have already peaked.

Flex040679
01-02-2012, 08:53 PM
Dumb post

TXBRONC
01-02-2012, 08:57 PM
Matt Schaub and Steve Young also say hi. Not saying Flynn will be like those guys, but it's silly to discredit him because of the failure of another player.

It's just as silly not to pay attention to history.

Nomad
01-02-2012, 08:57 PM
Everyone can calm down because Flynn ain't comin to the BRONCOS. Then again, I remember last time I said that about a QB and now he's the BRONCOS starting QB.:lol:

Npba900
01-02-2012, 08:58 PM
Dumb post

Okay if you say so. But know this, the last 3 games teams have shown how you shut down Tebow Ball! The option spread has been exposed and figured OUT!......Now What? From here on out every team in the NFL will make Tebow beat them with his arm, including the the Steelers next week!

Tebow must miraculously show he can move the Broncos up and down the field with his arm next Sunday and frankly I don't believe he can do it.

Npba900
01-02-2012, 09:01 PM
draft a QB in the 2nd-3rd as a little insurance. Tebow may still turn this thing around. Give him an offseason and don't break the bank on a QB bidding war

Hell, next season bring in Donovan McNabb for veteran backup experience. I don't even think Tebow can beat out McNabb.

MOtorboat
01-02-2012, 09:01 PM
Joel, the idea that Fox won't throw the football is absurd. His Panthers teams threw the ball more than they ran, passing more than running in 5 of his 9 seasons in Carolina - 02, 04, 06, 07, 10.

Yeah, he wants to run first, but it is truly absurd to suggest he wants this arcane offense.

TXBRONC
01-02-2012, 09:03 PM
I love Tebow. But hes not the answer. Ive seen enough.

Unless he absolutely lights it up on sunday and takes us to the AFC Championship game, hes gonna have to sit.


We wont be in position to draft a top QB, but Flynn has once again, with the opportunity given, played great.


We should keep Tebow and play him at RB/FB/Wildhorse QB/goaline threat.

6 for 22, bad decisions, and inability to bring it higher after 15 starts....is enough evidence for me.

I want him on our team. Hes a leader. But hes not a QB.

Sorry Gator fans and Tebow apololgists.


We need to go in a different direction, and I wouldnt even be mad if they started Quinn this weekend. Not saying it should or would happen, Im just sayin I wouldnt be mad.


While wouldn't want Denver to persue Flynn just because of one excellent game I wont be surprised if Denver drafts a quarterback early if there is one good enough to do so.

Npba900
01-02-2012, 09:03 PM
Everyone can calm down because Flynn ain't comin to the BRONCOS. Then again, I remember last time I said that about a QB and now he's the BRONCOS starting QB.:lol:

In 2 or 3 years Cutler could be wearing a Bronco uniform or Redskins uniform.:lol:

elsid13
01-02-2012, 09:08 PM
Rather trade a 4th for McGee (DAL) or Skelton (ARZ).

HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2012, 09:10 PM
Rather trade a 4th for McGee (DAL) or Skelton (ARZ).

I heard on Sirius a few weeks ago that Arizona can get out of Kolb's huge contract relatively easily because of clauses that were built in to protect them from him sucking ass or being hurt (both of which he's done). With the way Skelton is progressing, I'd be willing to bet he'll be their starter next year. I don't think they'll want to trade him.

TXBRONC
01-02-2012, 09:10 PM
Rather trade a 4th for McGee (DAL) or Skelton (ARZ).

I would rather we not do that either.

sneakers
01-02-2012, 09:51 PM
Eh give him an offseason and see how he is next year

WARHORSE
01-02-2012, 10:06 PM
Its simply not fair to the players playing now and that will be playing next year to go into the season with Tim at the helm.

We could keep him there, and then draft a 'Richardson' to run the ball, using the same offense, but it makes no good sense to ignore the passing game.

I LOVE the way we've been running the ball, and cant wait to see what we could do moving forward in that area, but it would be idiotic to say, well, we dont need a passing game when we can run like that.

Tebows running I love. His passing is not acceptable today, and it wont be next week, or any other day of the week.

We have to have a QB that can throw the ball.


If we have one that can run like Tebow too, then we have something special.

Also, Royal and Decker are good receivers. But Tebow would need receivers that could get alot of separation.

If we had WRs that could win one on one matchups, then this offense works much more effectively, cause Tebow can complete to guys who can get 4 yd separation.

He can also throw to Harvin types.........


What will the front office do?


Continue forward with this offense, trying to bring pieces in to make it more effective, or go with a traditional offense?


I like it if we can make it work. But if it doesnt.......we will have a roster full of players who wont be complete for another NFL offense, thereby putting yourself in quite the predicament going forward.

WARHORSE
01-02-2012, 10:13 PM
There is no comparison between Flynn and Schaub. Flynn was a 7th round draft pick. He is playing for the most pass happy system with some of the most talented WRs in the NFL.

A better comparison in Matt Cassel. Flynn, like Cassel, wasn't some draft screw up where everyone passed on an unknown player who turned out to be the next Tom Brady. Flynn just wasn't very good in college and won't be very good outside of a system with all-pro WRs, TE, and O-line.

Guys like Flynn scare the shit out of me. Schaub played well on an Atlanta team that wasn't overly talented and he was a 3rd round pick. Schaub showed competency in several games prior to being traded. Flynn has 6 quarters of work with the most talented offense in the league. The sirens are wailing on this one...


Cant say I disagree with anything. However, good wrs or not, you dont play like that when youve been sitting the bench for a season without having ability.

Rogers himself couldnt have done better.

What did Bubby Bristers passing numbers look like when he took over for Elway?

For that matter, Tebow for Orton?

It does make a difference when you have great receivers....but you would STILL have a drop off imo in production when you have a guy stepping in without playing time.

I'll take Flynn in a heartbeat.

Not saying we should sell the farm......but we SHOULD consider him mightily.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2012, 10:21 PM
Cant say I disagree with anything. However, good wrs or not, you dont play like that when youve been sitting the bench for a season without having ability.

Rogers himself couldnt have done better.

What did Bubby Bristers passing numbers look like when he took over for Elway?

For that matter, Tebow for Orton?

It does make a difference when you have great receivers....but you would STILL have a drop off imo in production when you have a guy stepping in without playing time.

I'll take Flynn in a heartbeat.

Not saying we should sell the farm......but we SHOULD consider him mightily.

Flynn is a FA after this season so he'll be fair game to everyone. Someone will pay him huge money and maybe he'll work out, maybe he'll be another Cassel or Kolb.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d825aa0a8/Matt-Flynn-s-future?module=HP11_content_stream

BORDERLINE
01-02-2012, 10:28 PM
If EFX decides not to keep Tebow then sure i'm all for getting Flynn. He's probably more seasoned then your average back-up and he's in the meetings with Rodgers and i'm sure he is picking up some knowledge form him.

But Let's get this straight I want Tebow here next year. The Broncos made the playoffs with him under center. He played us out of a high round pick and that just goes to show you he beat out his would be competitor with that win streak. Give him some weapons and then judge him off this next year since patience IS lost with our fan base.

Joel
01-02-2012, 10:38 PM
Joel, the idea that Fox won't throw the football is absurd. His Panthers teams threw the ball more than they ran, passing more than running in 5 of his 9 seasons in Carolina - 02, 04, 06, 07, 10.

Yeah, he wants to run first, but it is truly absurd to suggest he wants this arcane offense.
NONE of those teams had a winning season (the 8-8 '06 team came closest; that he's only had 3 winning seasons in 10 years as a head coach puts the whole "3rd most wins among active coaches" thing in perspective: We fired Shanny for five years like Foxs CAREER.) I already knew he was willing to pass as the last desperate act of a losing team; again, that's why I think he lost his only Super Bowl: Because he waited until he was down 11 points in the 4th quarter to start playing offense. It ALMOST worked; imagine what might have been if he'd started a couple quarters sooner.

Offensive playcalling in general is most effective when the defence doesn't always know what's coming; waiting till you're down by 20 late to pass is still telegraphing your playcalls. Tebow's had (surprise, surprise) some success throwing on first down but, while a good QB must be able to convert third and long, if that's the ONLY time you let him throw it WILL tank his numbers.

MOtorboat
01-02-2012, 10:53 PM
NONE of those teams had a winning season (the 8-8 '06 team came closest; that he's only had 3 winning seasons in 10 years as a head coach puts the whole "3rd most wins among active coaches" thing in perspective: We fired Shanny for five years like Foxs CAREER.) I already knew he was willing to pass as the last desperate act of a losing team; again, that's why I think he lost his only Super Bowl: Because he waited until he was down 11 points in the 4th quarter to start playing offense. It ALMOST worked; imagine what might have been if he'd started a couple quarters sooner.

Offensive playcalling in general is most effective when the defence doesn't always know what's coming; waiting till you're down by 20 late to pass is still telegraphing your playcalls. Tebow's had (surprise, surprise) some success throwing on first down but, while a good QB must be able to convert third and long, if that's the ONLY time you let him throw it WILL tank his numbers.

You mean, like flea-flickers on first down? Man, that was conservative.

I think we all know now why they are reluctant to change it up after the last two games, and I feel like we have a lot of people posting who are ostriches.

I Eat Staples
01-02-2012, 10:54 PM
The Flynn talk is ridiculous, he had ONE good game in his entire career.

Nomad
01-02-2012, 10:55 PM
I feel like we have a lot of people posting who are ostriches.

:lol:why an ostrich

MOtorboat
01-02-2012, 10:56 PM
:lol:why an ostrich

Head stuck in the sand.

Joel
01-02-2012, 10:57 PM
Its simply not fair to the players playing now and that will be playing next year to go into the season with Tim at the helm.

We could keep him there, and then draft a 'Richardson' to run the ball, using the same offense, but it makes no good sense to ignore the passing game.

I LOVE the way we've been running the ball, and cant wait to see what we could do moving forward in that area, but it would be idiotic to say, well, we dont need a passing game when we can run like that.

Tebows running I love. His passing is not acceptable today, and it wont be next week, or any other day of the week.

We have to have a QB that can throw the ball.


If we have one that can run like Tebow too, then we have something special.

Also, Royal and Decker are good receivers. But Tebow would need receivers that could get alot of separation.

If we had WRs that could win one on one matchups, then this offense works much more effectively, cause Tebow can complete to guys who can get 4 yd separation.

He can also throw to Harvin types.........


What will the front office do?


Continue forward with this offense, trying to bring pieces in to make it more effective, or go with a traditional offense?


I like it if we can make it work. But if it doesnt.......we will have a roster full of players who wont be complete for another NFL offense, thereby putting yourself in quite the predicament going forward.
We have MANY deficiencies; Tebows passing is high among them, but far from the only one. We should correct those other deficiencies, many of which are greater (DB and offensive line come to mind) whatever we do at QB, because whether we have Tebow or someone else the TEAM will be MUCH better with those other flaws corrected. Wide receiver is among those flaws, too; Royal and Decker may be good receivers, but they have yet to show it. It's not like they were among the League leaders in ANYTHING when Orton was here.

Spending huge amounts of money on what odds say is probably a system QB would tie our hands fixing our many other large problems, because it would greatly reduce the cap money available to get quality free agents at other vital positions. If Kuper doesn't make a full recovery we have JACK at guard right now, and the same is true of tackle if Clady isn't healthy and playing well next year. How'd you like to drop $20 million on Flynn then lose him to a Theismannesque injury because we still have no pass protection? Or how 'bout this: We sign a guy like Harvin or Marvin Harrison (instead of trading away good WRs as fast as we can acquire them) and SEE if Tebow does a better job finding them? Maybe find a stud MLB, since anyone we might draft will probably need 2-3 years before he's ready to run the D? Pick up a dominating DT? Get a secondary that consists of more than an aging Champ, Chris Harris and a collection of scrub rookies?

The wins weren't all Tebow, and neither are the losses. He's had ONE bad game (maybe two; didn't see the second half against the Bills, and can't evaluate Tebow based on our five straight three and outs running in the first half.) It was VERY bad, but it's not the whole career of our 24 year old second year QB. If you want insurance, fine, that's one thing, but if you want to know what would REALLY be "unfair to the other players?" Dumping the QB who was indispensable to their first playoff appearance in six years, when the whole team expects him back for more and much improved next year.

Hell, next season bring in Donovan McNabb for veteran backup experience. I don't even think Tebow can beat out McNabb.
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319508
A MUCH better idea than having the coaches split time between two project QBs, or breaking the bank on a guy who had a couple good games in the Leagues best offense but may not have any actual talent of his own.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2012, 10:57 PM
If EFX decides not to keep Tebow then sure i'm all for getting Flynn. He's probably more seasoned then your average back-up and he's in the meetings with Rodgers and i'm sure he is picking up some knowledge form him.

But Let's get this straight I want Tebow here next year. The Broncos made the playoffs with him under center. He played us out of a high round pick and that just goes to show you he beat out his would be competitor with that win streak. Give him some weapons and then judge him off this next year since patience IS lost with our fan base.

Exactly. Tebow has earned another year by leading a young team to the playoffs. Everyone who is a part of this franchise deserves some credit (even Mike McCoy a little).

The biggest thing is, in teams always trying to "improve", some just go too far. They give up on coaches and players too quickly sometimes. SD fired Schottenheimer after a 14-2 season... 14-2! Then they hired Turner and have done nothing but get farther and farther away from being a championship team.

There are tons of players that teams give up on or trade away every year that they probably should've kept. It's not like Tebow is lazy, or stupid, or has a bad attitude, or gets into trouble off the field. He just needs some work and a coaching staff that will work with him.

Everyone seems blinded by his last 3 games and forgets some of the good things he did during the 6 game winning streak. His clutch play and great game-winning drives when it counted - in each of them he threw the ball extremely well when they just let him throw and make plays. He looked fantastic against the Raiders throwing the football.

If we get him involved in more than just running the ball until the very last possible second (allowing him to come out and throw before there are 56 seconds and no timeouts left from his own 20 down by 4 and expect miracles), he'll probably do better. I find it funny that McCoy has altered the running game well to make the most of Tebow and McGahee, but he's struggled to play to Tebow's strengths in the passing game (rollouts, bootlegs, screens).

MOtorboat
01-02-2012, 11:05 PM
Second drive of the game, two passes, one run.

Three and out.

Man, if we just let him throw!

What a bogus argument.

DenBronx
01-02-2012, 11:07 PM
Look, I like Flynn and I think he's very polished and ready for the NFL.

But some of you fans are way too wishy washy. I agree Tebow has been horrible at times but what ever happened to allowing a young QB go through the growing pains? He has way more upside than Flynn. Might as well go after RG3 then or ship away the whole draft for 2 years to get Luck?

I mean what the hell. Why don't we actually allow the front office to build around Tebow? Our WRs are not exaclly elite, our TE's are not Graham, Gronk, Gates, Finley, Hernandez, Gonzales, Sheffler, Olsen ect ect ect level of play. Our OC has basically handicapped the kid many times this year. He didnt even get the offseason to work with the #1s and was splitting time with Quinn with the #2s. Our QB coach is a converted WR coach?

I mean come on here....14 games? Be realistic guys. Christian Ponder and Sam Bradford have outright stunk this year too. Should they write them off this soon?

Like I said, Tebow has been terrible at times. But I know what I have saw last year when he had a well stocked WR group. Don't you think losing Gaffney and Llyod has anything to do with it? Where is the sure hands Decker and Willis? Footballs are bouncing of their facemask on a regular basis and at critical times! Does Tebow have a Larry Fitzgerald or Jordy Nelson? No he doesnt.

WARHORSE
01-02-2012, 11:08 PM
Flynn is a FA after this season so he'll be fair game to everyone. Someone will pay him huge money and maybe he'll work out, maybe he'll be another Cassel or Kolb.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d825aa0a8/Matt-Flynn-s-future?module=HP11_content_stream

Agreed.

One thing to consider.......unlike Kolb, Cassell and Schaub, Flynn hasnt shown downside.

I for one, did not believe in Kolb that much. His stats came in garbage time when he played big.


Flynn went toe to toe with an offense that gunned up over 500 yards of offense in the heat of the battle.

Who comes in off the bench and does that?

6 TDs and 480 yards of passing?

Not even Favre and Rogers have done that.

Ever.

Joel
01-02-2012, 11:13 PM
You mean, like flea-flickers on first down? Man, that was conservative.

I think we all know now why they are reluctant to change it up after the last two games, and I feel like we have a lot of people posting who are ostriches.
I don't know wtf those flea flickers keep coming from, because they've never worked worth a darn. I was thinking more along the lines of the slants we've thrown to Decker a couple times (one of them for a TD.)

They didn't suddenly become reluctant to change it up after the last two games; they've been reluctant all season. They seemed to be slowly coming out of it as Tebow showed steady improvement week after week, but after we won the Bears game (on Tebows 50+% arm, despite what Elias and the League says were half a dozen drops) we went into lock down: We were in sole possession of first place in the AFC West and all we had to do was not lose. Which we faiiled to do in any of our remaining three games. The Pats have one of the worst secondaries in the League, but we refused to pass on them until we were down by 18 in the second half. Yea, we ran for 250+ yards! And STILL lost by 18.

I'm not ignoring the last two games (though, once again, I can't speak to the second half against the Bills 'cos I barely saw any of it) but I'm not ignoring the previous ones. Tebow can play MUCH better than he did against KC because we've all seen him do it; hell, we've seen him do it against KC. He took big steps backward last week, and if that doesn't change he can't remain the starter, but why should we assume that ONE game will define his career? My head's not buried in the sand, but my eyes aren't locked onto one game (or one position) like Tebows lock onto the best of his mediocre receivers. ;)

Fix the rest of the team, and keep developing Tebow. IF he proves a bust next season, we'll still have a better team with which any replacement can win more games, but if he ISN'T a bust we'll have a better team with which he can do better than the 7-4 record that won the AFC West. Either way, those are bigger dividends than continuing to play the QB Lottery every year like perennial 6-10 teams who never try to develop anything but a QB and thus end up dumping even good ones because "he sucks" (i.e. he can't singlehandedly turn 52 scrubs into champions.)

ONE bad game and it's time to abandon ship. Tebow's no Elway, but even Elway couldn't survive in that kind of environment on this roster.

The Flynn talk is ridiculous, he had ONE good game in his entire career.
Makes perfect sense; Tebow has ONE BAD game: He's our backup TE; Flynn has ONE GOOD game: He's our starting QB. Until his first bad game. ;)

WARHORSE
01-02-2012, 11:14 PM
Look, I like Flynn and I think he's very polished and ready for the NFL.

But some of you fans are way too wishy washy. I agree Tebow has been horrible at times but what ever happened to allowing a young QB go through the growing pains? He has way more upside than Flynn. Might as well go after RG3 then or ship away the whole draft for 2 years to get Luck?

I mean what the hell. Why don't we actually allow the front office to build around Tebow? Our WRs are not exaclly elite, our TE's are not Graham, Gronk, Gates, Finley, Hernandez, Gonzales, Sheffler, Olsen ect ect ect level of play. Our OC has basically handicapped the kid many times this year. He didnt even get the offseason to work with the #1s and was splitting time with Quinn with the #2s. Our QB coach is a converted WR coach?

I mean come on here....14 games? Be realistic guys. Christian Ponder and Sam Bradford have outright stunk this year too. Should they write them off this soon?

Like I said, Tebow has been terrible at times. But I know what I have saw last year when he had a well stocked WR group. Don't you think losing Gaffney and Llyod has anything to do with it? Where is the sure hands Decker and Willis? Footballs are bouncing of their facemask on a regular basis and at critical times! Does Tebow have a Larry Fitzgerald or Jordy Nelson? No he doesnt.


Its not all Tebows fault.


But 6 of 22?

Again?


Tebow can win I believe....but only in an offense built very specifically to him.

You need an outstanding oline. Outstanding WRs. Outstanding RBs.

Its an opposite of a team built on a great QB who makes everyone else better.

You need an elite signal caller. At this point......Tim is not showing himself to be it, and really hasnt shown it all year when it comes to passing.

You cant choose to build around a non existent passing attack.

Joel
01-02-2012, 11:29 PM
Its not all Tebows fault.

But 6 of 22?

Again?

Tebow can win I believe....but only in an offense built very specifically to him.

You need an outstanding oline. Outstanding WRs. Outstanding RBs.

Its an opposite of a team built on a great QB who makes everyone else better.

You need an elite signal caller. At this point......Tim is not showing himself to be it, and really hasnt shown it all year when it comes to passing.

You cant choose to build around a non existent passing attack.
Offenses are built around linemen, not QBs, RBs or WRs. Shannys innate grasp of that (despite being an ex-QB and QB coach) is what made me a Broncos fan. And won the team two Super Bowls.

Y'know how everyone's always screaming "we need DL [I hate that term, incidentally; DEs and DTs are not interchangeable--ask Keith Traylor!] we need blitzers, kill the QB, AARRGGH111"? Guess what: The only thing standing between our QB and the other 31 teams screaming that, too, are guys like Zane Beadles and Orlando Franklin. Tebow's not dumb enough to be fearless in that scenario, especially knowing he'll usually have to stand in the pocket a LONG TIME for his receivers to get open--and there's a good chance they'll drop the ball when they do (30th in drops? Seriously, wtf is that? We can't afford to drop the few passes we attempt.)

Tebow must improve, and the KC game was arguably his worst so far--but QBs are not panaceas that magically turn losers into champions. Sometimes it feels like all the Lions fans migrated here when they turned into a playoff team. :tongue: This is not a good team, and needs improvement many places, but the only guy we're demanding be benched is the QB--after ONE bad game! How many bad games must the rest of our starters have before we stop blaming their failures on Tebow? Or Orton, for that matter; he's 2-1 starting for a 7-9 team (and the loss only went to OT because KC missed a FG at the end of regulation; otherwise THEY'RE AFC Champs and we're out in the cold.)

So, yeah, if Tebow isn't much better at the start of next season we'll need someone else--but we'll need a lot of "someone else"s many other places to be a contender, and dropping 8 figures on a guy who's had ONE GOOD game would make getting them MUCH harder. Even if Flynn's legit, without a better supporting cast and passing more often than every other other down, he still won't produce a championship. It takes (a lot) more than a QB to produce a championship, and, funny thing, if you build a championship team at the other positions, even guys like Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw, Bob Griese and Bart Starr can manage their way to Super Bowl Rings.

Nomad
01-02-2012, 11:35 PM
Suck for Luck:heh:

chazoe60
01-02-2012, 11:41 PM
I wouldn't mind kicking the tires on Flynn. If we bring in competition and Tebow beats him out, good. If the other guy wins, good. I don't think Tebow has earned the right to be given the keys to the team but he's earned the right to have an actual competition.

bcbronc
01-03-2012, 12:16 AM
Flynn's too high profile imo, it would mean turning the page on Tebow. As bad as he's regressed, he has shown me enough improvement this year that imo he should be the incumbent in camp next season. Go get a big ticket UFA like Flynn, and you have to hand him the reigns.

It's not unusual for young QBs to have ups and downs. Granted, not usually this far down, but still. It looks like Tebow is overthinking the game right now, focusing on his footwork and staying in the pocket and reading his keys and progressing through his reads. So much thinking he's forgetting to play the game. imo he's earned next season to show whether he can absorb what he needs to and get back to playing football.

But his regression has scared me. Anytime a QB is at the top of our draft board, we need to take him.

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 12:48 AM
I love Tebow. But hes not the answer. Ive seen enough.

Unless he absolutely lights it up on sunday and takes us to the AFC Championship game, hes gonna have to sit.


We wont be in position to draft a top QB, but Flynn has once again, with the opportunity given, played great.


We should keep Tebow and play him at RB/FB/Wildhorse QB/goaline threat.

6 for 22, bad decisions, and inability to bring it higher after 15 starts....is enough evidence for me.

I want him on our team. Hes a leader. But hes not a QB.

Sorry Gator fans and Tebow apololgists.


We need to go in a different direction, and I wouldnt even be mad if they started Quinn this weekend. Not saying it should or would happen, Im just sayin I wouldnt be mad.

Flynn's not very accurate.
Career 56% accuracy at LSU. 59% at Green Bay.

His interception ratio is also problematic.
3.0 at LSU
3.6 at Green Bay.

If you are fooled by Matt Flynn based on one game then you aren't very good at evaluating talent.

nevcraw
01-03-2012, 01:44 AM
shocker --- another drama queen knee jerk reaction against the guy who put you in the playoffs. Hey Warhorse Orton will be available soon.. sign him. he throws such a catchable ball.. his stats are awesome..

Chidoze
01-03-2012, 03:21 AM
I love Tebow. But hes not the answer. Ive seen enough.

Unless he absolutely lights it up on sunday and takes us to the AFC Championship game, hes gonna have to sit.


We wont be in position to draft a top QB, but Flynn has once again, with the opportunity given, played great.


We should keep Tebow and play him at RB/FB/Wildhorse QB/goaline threat.

6 for 22, bad decisions, and inability to bring it higher after 15 starts....is enough evidence for me.

I want him on our team. Hes a leader. But hes not a QB.

Sorry Gator fans and Tebow apololgists.


We need to go in a different direction, and I wouldnt even be mad if they started Quinn this weekend. Not saying it should or would happen, Im just sayin I wouldnt be mad.
Please, no one game wonders!!!

Matt Cassel, Billy Volek, Kevin Kolb... Noooooooo go away Matt Flynn!!!

VonSackemMiller
01-03-2012, 06:32 AM
I love Tebow. But hes not the answer. Ive seen enough.

Unless he absolutely lights it up on sunday and takes us to the AFC Championship game, hes gonna have to sit.


We wont be in position to draft a top QB, but Flynn has once again, with the opportunity given, played great.


We should keep Tebow and play him at RB/FB/Wildhorse QB/goaline threat.

6 for 22, bad decisions, and inability to bring it higher after 15 starts....is enough evidence for me.

I want him on our team. Hes a leader. But hes not a QB.

Sorry Gator fans and Tebow apololgists.


We need to go in a different direction, and I wouldnt even be mad if they started Quinn this weekend. Not saying it should or would happen, Im just sayin I wouldnt be mad.

The funny thing is Matt FLynn has had one good game his entire what 4-5 year career? You willing to bank on him being the guy? Id bring flynn in to compete as ive already made this thread. But to say tebow will never be the answe is simply you being a hop on. Im not a tebmaniac or a gator fan. The kid needs to develope. i watched tebow under real offensive minds last year MCDANIELS look like a got damn nfl qb throwing the ball. even threw for 300 in one of them. Get this boy some real coaching because with our staff not even your man crush boy matt flynn will do anything. with WRs being number 2 in the league in drops he wont do a thing, with clady getting drive killing holding penalties your boy matt flynn wont do shit on 3rd and 22 either. smh

claymore
01-03-2012, 08:05 AM
Tebow is bad. Really, really bad. I think it will only get worse unless we get a future HOF OC to come up with some revolutionary shit.

Flynn isnt the answer either. Someone will overpay for him, hopefully it isnt us.

Bronco Bible
01-03-2012, 09:51 AM
I wouldn't mind kicking the tires on Flynn. If we bring in competition and Tebow beats him out, good. If the other guy wins, good. I don't think Tebow has earned the right to be given the keys to the team but he's earned the right to have an actual competition.

Flynn is just the flavor of the week....IMO

Northman
01-03-2012, 09:57 AM
Tebow is bad. Really, really bad. I think it will only get worse unless we get a future HOF OC to come up with some revolutionary shit.

Flynn isnt the answer either. Someone will overpay for him, hopefully it isnt us.

Agreed. But im getting back to the point where i really dont want Tebow on this team anymore. The last 3 games have really opened my eyes on him.

vettesplus
01-03-2012, 09:59 AM
so what happened to all the tebow maniacs saying he was the next elway for this team???

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:09 AM
Agreed. But im getting back to the point where i really dont want Tebow on this team anymore. The last 3 games have really opened my eyes on him.

http://cmsimg.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=U0&Date=20120101&Category=PKR01&ArtNo=120101052&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Green-Bay-Packers-QB-Matt-Flynn-savors-record-setting-cameo

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:11 AM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0brG8LZ1ungKQ/610x.jpg

Northman
01-03-2012, 10:11 AM
http://cmsimg.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=U0&Date=20120101&Category=PKR01&ArtNo=120101052&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Green-Bay-Packers-QB-Matt-Flynn-savors-record-setting-cameo


Well, look who's back..... :lol:

And no, we shouldnt be in like Flynn. It would be a huge mistake to sign that guy. I would rather draft a QB than a guy who flourishes on one of the best teams in the NFL. Can you say Matt Cassell?

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:12 AM
http://ogdraft.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/andrew-luck.jpg?w=535&h=379

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:13 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-z3S-qFE2Gdw/TvcsLRW8pwI/AAAAAAAAb08/W1UCOkNoDcY/s1600/matt_barkley_0009.jpg

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:13 AM
http://gundyslettuce.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/weedenblack.jpg

Nomad
01-03-2012, 10:13 AM
At least SOCAL has another year to put up Barkley pics:lol:

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:14 AM
http://www.85percentsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tannehill.jpg

Nomad
01-03-2012, 10:14 AM
http://gundyslettuce.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/weedenblack.jpg

Better call AARP!:D

Northman
01-03-2012, 10:15 AM
http://gundyslettuce.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/weedenblack.jpg

After last night, i think his stock just went up.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:15 AM
At least SOCAL has another year to put up Barkley pics:lol:

Isnt it great!?!?!?
I asked Matty to stay another year and DOMINATE just so i could put up his pics for another fantastic year specifically for you all.
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Matt+Barkley+USC+v+Stanford+_ScR75R4fPCl.jpg

Nomad
01-03-2012, 10:17 AM
After last night, i think his stock just went up.

Rose Bowl and Fiesta Bowl were pretty solid games.

claymore
01-03-2012, 10:22 AM
Agreed. But im getting back to the point where i really dont want Tebow on this team anymore. The last 3 games have really opened my eyes on him.

The damage has been done though. We are stuck with him unless we can dump him off on the Jags, and we can luck into Luck... Or Barkley.

VonSackemMiller
01-03-2012, 10:22 AM
stock up to like the 5th round because of his age. unless you think hes a day one starter.

Northman
01-03-2012, 10:24 AM
The damage has been done though. We are stuck with him unless we can dump him off on the Jags, and we can luck into Luck... Or Barkley.

Oh, they wont dump him. At least for another year but we definitely need to bring in some competition. I dont care if its another 5 QB's. We cant hinge our future on this kid at the present moment.

claymore
01-03-2012, 10:25 AM
Oh, they wont dump him. At least for another year but we definitely need to bring in some competition. I dont care if its another 5 QB's. We cant hinge our future on this kid at the present moment.

Who could we bring in? Id only want to bring in the future backup. Unless we can get a good QB early, I think we waste picks.

Northman
01-03-2012, 10:28 AM
Who could we bring in? Id only want to bring in the future backup. Unless we can get a good QB early, I think we waste picks.

Have to wait and see how it unfolds FA wise. The draft is QB heavy and i know that most of the guys coming out can be as bad/good as Tebow at this point. As we have seen, nothing is for certain. No one thought that Jay and Brandon would be shipped out so Tebow is no mainstay here.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:30 AM
Oh, they wont dump him. At least for another year but we definitely need to bring in some competition. I dont care if its another 5 QB's. We cant hinge our future on this kid at the present moment.

Tebow has a huge florida following and his home is Jville.
JVille just got a new owner, and they are in desperate need of
some serious revenue. Tebow sells tickets and jerseys, and he
would boost JVille's financial issues right away and take some
heat off the organization. Tebow would buy that new owner and
staff a few years to get their feet under them, even if he didnt
work out.
Elway has always been very careful in how he dealt with Tebow
publicly. Hes alway left himself an out, so it would not be suprising
to see tebow dealt for a pick or a player.
If Jville offered up a 2nd rounder, i would think Elway would take it.

Northman
01-03-2012, 10:32 AM
Tebow has a huge florida following and his home is Jville.
JVille just got a new owner, and they are in desperate need of
some serious revenue. Tebow sells tickets and jerseys, and he
would boost JVille's financial issues right away and take some
heat off the organization.
Elway has always been very careful in how he dealt with Tebow
publicly. Hes alway left himself an out, so it would not be suprising
to see tebow dealt for a pick or a player.
If Jville offered up a 2nd rounder, i would think Elway would take it.


I dont see it happening but i wouldnt be opposed to it. The circus that surrounds Tebow is just disgusting both pro/con. Its a headache i wish we didnt have.

VonSackemMiller
01-03-2012, 10:33 AM
I just wonder if the colts will take luck and just cut manning and move on. if so id take manning and let tebow sit and learn under him for a few years. thats the only way i dont wanna see tebow starting next year is if we can bring in manning for free and sign reggie wayne his boy whose a free agent.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:36 AM
Who could we bring in? Id only want to bring in the future backup. Unless we can get a good QB early, I think we waste picks.

Top Quarterbacks

Drew Brees (NO) - You must be playing Madden if you think you can lure him to help revive your struggling Redskins or Dolphins franchise-this Saint is off limits and fully locked into Who Dat nation for the rest of his career.

Matt Flynn (GB) - As far as realistic, long-term options go, Matt Flynn may be the most pursued man. In his lone regular season appearance, he moved the Packers offense up and down the field in a national game, and almost knocked off a Patriots team in their house. Flynn has been taught by and learned from the best in Green Bay and will be ready to see if his career holds more than a clipboard.

Alex Smith (SF) - Through the early portion of the season, the Niners have slowly opened up more of their offense for Alex Smith who has done nothing but make smart decisions. He's more efficient than productive, but another season or two under Harbaugh could really help him turn his career around completely. His return to San Francisco will rely upon his sustained success, improvement, and their confidence in second-rounder Colin Kaepernick.

Kyle Orton (DEN) - Orton is inconsistent and about as middle-of-the-road as they come at quarterback. He can spin the ball well, but doesn't make the quickest decisions-and sometimes not the best. He's not a quarterback that will truly impress anyone as a starter, but is comfortably one of the 32 best this league has to offer. The Broncos probably won't want him back for another round of mediocrity, but he's the type of player that will play himself into the starting lineup with a younger prospect consistently vying for his position.

Jason Campbell (OAK) - Campbell has been fairly efficient as the quarterback for the Raiders. With the Raiders finally appearing to turn the corner, they may look to retain Campbell's services on a short term deal as they continue to improve the rest of the roster and build a hard-nosed, winning environment. Unlike some of the other quarterbacks in this class, Campbell's greatest hindrance is not his skillset, but rather his confidence and vision in determining when to push the ball down the field.



Donovan McNabb (MIN) - McNabb's best years are behind him; and he's probably destined to play out the rest of his career as a back-up or a starter amongst the league's bottomfeeders. One will prolong his stay in the NFL, while the other will cut it short. One thing appears clear though. The Vikings have not had the success they anticipated coming into the year and are likely to turn to Ponder by the start of next year at the very latest. More realistically, McNabb will be riding the bench after the team's bye week.

The Rest:

Chris Redman (ATL)
Derek Anderson (CAR)
Shaun Hill (DET)
Drew Stanton (DET)
Brady Quinn (DEN)
David Garrard (FA)
Luke McCown (JAC)
Chad Henne (MIA)
Sage Rosenfels (MIA)
David Carr (NYG)
Mark Brunell (NYJ)
Kevin O'Connell (NYJ)
Kyle Boller (OAK)
Vince Young (PHI)
Charlie Batch (PIT)
Dennis Dixon (PIT)
Byron Leftwich (PIT)
Charlie Whitehurst (SEA)
A.J. Feeley (STL)
Josh Johnson (TB)
Rex Grossman (WAS)
Richard Bartel (ARZ) - Restricted
Max Hall (ARZ) - Exclusive Rights
Tyler Palko (KC) - Restricted
Brian Hoyer (NE) - Restricted
Chase Daniel (NO) - Restricted

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:39 AM
I just wonder if the colts will take luck and just cut manning and move on. if so id take manning and let tebow sit and learn under him for a few years. thats the only way i dont wanna see tebow starting next year is if we can bring in manning for free and sign reggie wayne his boy whose a free agent.

I think if INDY takes Luck, Manning will sit down with the INDY brass, and demand to go to the NYJ, so he can play for a team built to win, and be close to his brother.

Northman
01-03-2012, 10:39 AM
Top Quarterbacks

Drew Brees (NO) - You must be playing Madden if you think you can lure him to help revive your struggling Redskins or Dolphins franchise-this Saint is off limits and fully locked into Who Dat nation for the rest of his career.

Matt Flynn (GB) - As far as realistic, long-term options go, Matt Flynn may be the most pursued man. In his lone regular season appearance, he moved the Packers offense up and down the field in a national game, and almost knocked off a Patriots team in their house. Flynn has been taught by and learned from the best in Green Bay and will be ready to see if his career holds more than a clipboard.

Alex Smith (SF) - Through the early portion of the season, the Niners have slowly opened up more of their offense for Alex Smith who has done nothing but make smart decisions. He's more efficient than productive, but another season or two under Harbaugh could really help him turn his career around completely. His return to San Francisco will rely upon his sustained success, improvement, and their confidence in second-rounder Colin Kaepernick.

Kyle Orton (DEN) - Orton is inconsistent and about as middle-of-the-road as they come at quarterback. He can spin the ball well, but doesn't make the quickest decisions-and sometimes not the best. He's not a quarterback that will truly impress anyone as a starter, but is comfortably one of the 32 best this league has to offer. The Broncos probably won't want him back for another round of mediocrity, but he's the type of player that will play himself into the starting lineup with a younger prospect consistently vying for his position.

Jason Campbell (OAK) - Campbell has been fairly efficient as the quarterback for the Raiders. With the Raiders finally appearing to turn the corner, they may look to retain Campbell's services on a short term deal as they continue to improve the rest of the roster and build a hard-nosed, winning environment. Unlike some of the other quarterbacks in this class, Campbell's greatest hindrance is not his skillset, but rather his confidence and vision in determining when to push the ball down the field.



Donovan McNabb (MIN) - McNabb's best years are behind him; and he's probably destined to play out the rest of his career as a back-up or a starter amongst the league's bottomfeeders. One will prolong his stay in the NFL, while the other will cut it short. One thing appears clear though. The Vikings have not had the success they anticipated coming into the year and are likely to turn to Ponder by the start of next year at the very latest. More realistically, McNabb will be riding the bench after the team's bye week.

The Rest:

Chris Redman (ATL)
Derek Anderson (CAR)
Shaun Hill (DET)
Drew Stanton (DET)
Brady Quinn (DEN)
David Garrard (FA)
Luke McCown (JAC)
Chad Henne (MIA)
Sage Rosenfels (MIA)
David Carr (NYG)
Mark Brunell (NYJ)
Kevin O'Connell (NYJ)
Kyle Boller (OAK)
Vince Young (PHI)
Charlie Batch (PIT)
Dennis Dixon (PIT)
Byron Leftwich (PIT)
Charlie Whitehurst (SEA)
A.J. Feeley (STL)
Josh Johnson (TB)
Rex Grossman (WAS)
Richard Bartel (ARZ) - Restricted
Max Hall (ARZ) - Exclusive Rights
Tyler Palko (KC) - Restricted
Brian Hoyer (NE) - Restricted
Chase Daniel (NO) - Restricted


In other words, a whole lot of nothing. Brees isnt going anywhere so i would just take my chances in the draft. Maybe sign one of those guys as a veteran presence.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:42 AM
I dont see it happening but i wouldnt be opposed to it. The circus that surrounds Tebow is just disgusting both pro/con. Its a headache i wish we didnt have.

So were basically right back to square 1 where we left off before the season began. LOL!
Beating the MIAs and MINs of the NFL, but getting throttled by playoff teams.
The defense has taken a huge step in the right direction though.
And DEn has another really solid HC in the wings in Dennis Allen.

Nomad
01-03-2012, 10:44 AM
It's all on you SOCAL....you said BRONCOS were getting Tebow:D

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:46 AM
In other words, a whole lot of nothing. Brees isnt going anywhere so i would just take my chances in the draft. Maybe sign one of those guys as a veteran presence.

Exactly. DEN MUST look to the draft.
If they sign Flynn, it cant be for huge money, or DEN will need to lure Joe Philbin or QB coach Tom Clements from GB.

Northman
01-03-2012, 10:46 AM
So were basically right back to square 1 where we left off before the season began. LOL!
Beating the MIAs and MINs of the NFL, but getting throttled by playoff teams.
The defense has taken a huge step in the right direction though.
And DEn has another really solid HC in the wings in Dennis Allen.

100% true.

But there's nothing we can do about it. Looking at the last 6 years with all the continued coaching changes, etc its just left us with so much uncertainty and poor draft choices (for the most part). We just continue to spin our wheels in the mud. At this point we just need to stick with Fox and hope for better drafting for the next 3 years. Its the only way to get back on track but the draft choices have to improve drastically as we arent getting very good contributions from most of them.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:47 AM
It's all on you SOCAL....you said BRONCOS were getting Tebow:D

I know. I just looked at our incredibly arrogant, punk HC and said,
"What would that no-talent, ass-clown do?"

claymore
01-03-2012, 10:51 AM
I know. I just looked at our incredibly arrogant, punk HC and said,
"What would that no-talent, ass-clown do?"

It was the dumbest thing he could have done in the draft (besides drafting a WR with a broken foot in the 1st) so we should have all expected it.

claymore
01-03-2012, 10:53 AM
I just wonder if the colts will take luck and just cut manning and move on. if so id take manning and let tebow sit and learn under him for a few years. thats the only way i dont wanna see tebow starting next year is if we can bring in manning for free and sign reggie wayne his boy whose a free agent.

Manning is a first ballot HOF'er. He isnt going anywhere. Luck isnt a sure thing. Indy is in a tough spot. THats for sure,... I see them taking luck, or trading to the highest bidder.

Worst case, Luck sits on the bench for a couple years.

Nomad
01-03-2012, 10:53 AM
I know. I just looked at our incredibly arrogant, punk HC and said,
"What would that no-talent, ass-clown do?"

Fox seems the opposite, so what's he gonna do or will Elway make the choice? I'll believe you this time.

Nomad
01-03-2012, 10:55 AM
Manning is a first ballot HOF'er. He isnt going anywhere. Luck isnt a sure thing. Indy is in a tough spot. THats for sure,... I see them taking luck, or trading to the highest bidder.

Worst case, Luck sits on the bench for a couple years.

If Indy was looking to get rid of Manning....they'd have gotten rid of Caldwell.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 10:55 AM
It was the dumbest thing he could have done in the draft (besides drafting a WR with a broken foot in the 1st) so we should have all expected it.

:lol:

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 11:09 AM
Fox seems the opposite, so what's he gonna do or will Elway make the choice? I'll believe you this time.

Well, Elway is making the choice. Thats the one aspect of this we all can agree on. Fox, Bowlen and the rest will have some input, but Elway will be the one who decides where this team goes from here in regards to the QB position specifically.
I have no doubt that Elway wants Luck and was hoping that JVille would just lose that last game opening up a 3 way trade scenario for him.
And i have no doubt that we will hear many, MANY rumors from here on out about Elway trying to work a deal for Luck.(along with many other teams)
It all depends on Peyton to me. I think Peyton has much more to do with this than anyone really realizes. Notice someone got fired in INDY recently?
And after some pretty bold statements about how Manning and Luck would be just fine on the same team. Peyton Manning has made some bold statements of his own too in his career. Like, "If you dont draft me, i am gonna kick your butts everytinme i play you for the next 15 years"
You dont think he went in to ownership and made known his thoughts on all this Luck talk? Really? REALLY? I dont think Peyton and Luck will be on INDY together.
And then theres Luck and his pops. I could easily see a scenario where they decide to pull an "Eli" and thats where Elway jumps in.

Northman
01-03-2012, 11:11 AM
Nah, while i dont doubt we take a QB we arent going to sell the farm to get Luck. This team has too many other issues to do that. If people think that Tebow is being put in a position to fail now to give up a entire draft for Luck would be equally as moronic. This a QB heavy draft and there are some other very good QB's who can be had in the late 1st and 2nd round. No need to panic in that regard.

Nomad
01-03-2012, 11:15 AM
Well, Elway is making the choice. Thats the one aspect of this we all can agree on. Fox, Bowlen and the rest will have some input, but Elway will be the one who decides where this team goes from here in regards to the QB position specifically.
I have no doubt that Elway wants Luck and was hoping that JVille would just lose that last game opening up a 3 way trade scenario for him.
And i have no doubt that we will hear many, MANY rumors from here on out about Elway trying to work a deal for Luck.(along with many other teams)
It all depends on Peyton to me. I think Peyton has much more to do with this than anyone really realizes. Notice someone got fired in INDY recently?
And after some pretty bold statements about how Manning and Luck would be just fine on the same team. Peyton Manning has made some bold statements of his own too in his career. Like, "If you dont draft me, i am gonna kick your butts everytinme i play you for the next 15 years"
You dont think he went in to ownership and made known his thoughts on all this Luck talk? Really? REALLY? I dont think Peyton and Luck will be on INDY together.
And then theres Luck and his pops. I could easily see a scenario where they decide to pull an "Eli" and thats where Elway jumps in.

I've heard that being a possibility by some opinion givers on the radio. That if Colts decide to keep Manning (a healthy 100% Manning) and it looks like Luck will be riding the pine, then Daddy Luck will step in and not be very happy because both daddy and Andrew will want to see the field right away.

It'll be another Archie/Eli scenerio.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 11:21 AM
Nah, while i dont doubt we take a QB we arent going to sell the farm to get Luck. This team has too many other issues to do that. If people think that Tebow is being put in a position to fail now to give up a entire draft for Luck would be equally as moronic. This a QB heavy draft and there are some other very good QB's who can be had in the late 1st and 2nd round. No need to panic in that regard.

But i dont think Elway looks at it that way. I think he has himself as "the standard", and he wants to finally get this team back to where it was with him. And although its fun to discuss the Weedens and Tannehills of this draft, i think Elway has his mind set on one guy. If Bowlen is willing to open up the checkbook in FA, then i think Elway will get his man. Its just my 2 cents.
I also think that folks havent taken into account how Peyton and Lucks dad will play into this.

BigDaddyBronco
01-03-2012, 11:25 AM
If Indy was looking to get rid of Manning....they'd have gotten rid of Caldwell.

They still might. The Polians were Manning's biggest supporters, Irsay might want to cut loose Manning and rebuild with Luck, new front office and new HC.

Northman
01-03-2012, 11:28 AM
They still might. The Polians were Manning's biggest supporters, Irsay might want to cut loose Manning and rebuild with Luck, new front office and new HC.

I wonder how much of a cap hit they would take though. Doesnt Manning have an outrageous contract?

TXBRONC
01-03-2012, 11:32 AM
They still might. The Polians were Manning's biggest supporters, Irsay might want to cut loose Manning and rebuild with Luck, new front office and new HC.

If the Colts keep Manning they're going to owe him something $20 million dollars so there has been a lot of speculation that the Colts may that much money for a guy whose career could conceivable be over because of injury.

BigDaddyBronco
01-03-2012, 11:33 AM
A scenario I like (which is highly improbable), is McCoy getting the Jacksonville job, we trade Tebow to Jacksonville for their high 2nd and maybe a 4th or 5th rounder next year. Then we turn around and hire Tom Clements from GB to be our new OC and bring in Matt Flynn. Then we have the perfect system guy in Flynn and a good system in GB's offense. Turn around and use the draft picks to get better on the offensive line and another WR and RB. Use later picks on secondary and hope we get lucky there. Then we would have a middle of the road offense and a middle of the road defense without having to mortgage the future picks to move up in the 1st.

TXBRONC
01-03-2012, 11:33 AM
I wonder how much of a cap hit they would take though. Doesnt Manning have an outrageous contract?

Yes he does. He has some kind outrageous bonus that's coming up soon.

BigDaddyBronco
01-03-2012, 11:34 AM
I wonder how much of a cap hit they would take though. Doesnt Manning have an outrageous contract?

He does, but I think they can unload him before March or something and take much less of a hit. They were talking about it a few months ago when they were worried about him ever playing again.

MOtorboat
01-03-2012, 11:39 AM
I wonder how much of a cap hit they would take though. Doesnt Manning have an outrageous contract?

I heard one of the "insiders" (can't remember if it was King, Florio, Schefter or Clayton, but it was one of those four) say no team will accept a trade until after the beginning of the league year in March because of some huge roster bonus he's owed.

MOtorboat
01-03-2012, 11:43 AM
A scenario I like (which is highly improbable), is McCoy getting the Jacksonville job, we trade Tebow to Jacksonville for their high 2nd and maybe a 4th or 5th rounder next year. Then we turn around and hire Tom Clements from GB to be our new OC and bring in Matt Flynn. Then we have the perfect system guy in Flynn and a good system in GB's offense. Turn around and use the draft picks to get better on the offensive line and another WR and RB. Use later picks on secondary and hope we get lucky there. Then we would have a middle of the road offense and a middle of the road defense without having to mortgage the future picks to move up in the 1st.

My only fear is the contract Flynn will want. He'll want a Kolb/Cassell like contract, and he might be as ineffective outside of Green Bay as those two have been outside of Philly and New England, respectively.

BigDaddyBronco
01-03-2012, 11:48 AM
My only fear is the contract Flynn will want. He'll want a Kolb/Cassell like contract, and he might be as ineffective outside of Green Bay as those two have been outside of Philly and New England, respectively.

True he might be a Kolb/Cassell/Rob Johnson/etc., but it might work if you brought over a new OC that ran the same system that you learned over the last few years. Obviously, Flynn looks a lot better with those recievers and TE's to throw to than he would with what we have, but with another RB you would be able to run the ball as well taking some pressure off him.

You could do the same with a rookie QB, but you still have to develop them, use a draft pick on them, and have to wait to see if they will be good. All you waste on Flynn would be money and maybe a year or two.


I still think in the end we try and develop Tebow next year and draft a 2nd round QB as a back up plan.

chazoe60
01-03-2012, 11:52 AM
My only fear is the contract Flynn will want. He'll want a Kolb/Cassell like contract, and he might be as ineffective outside of Green Bay as those two have been outside of Philly and New England, respectively.

You can't worry about that. You do your research watch film and if you deem he looks like the real dealyoh pull the trigger. You can't look at other situations and base your decision on those. Each situation is different. Flynn IMO is a safer bet than anyone in the draft other than Luck. Sure he could be the next Kolb, but he could be the next Favre or Steve Young too. Sometimes you gotta just roll the dice.

BigDaddyBronco
01-03-2012, 11:54 AM
You can't worry about that. You do your research watch film and if you deem he looks like the real dealyoh pull the trigger. You can't look at other situations and base your decision on those. Each situation is different. Flynn IMO is a safer bet than anyone in the draft other than Luck. Sure he could be the next Kolb, but he could be the next Favre or Steve Young too. Sometimes you gotta just roll the dice.

In the end it really only costs you money, and it's not ours, so I would take that chance. I guess it would also end the Tebow experiment, but that is where Elway and the coaches have to be honest about his chances of developing into something that he is not right now. He might be able to do it, but he might not.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 11:55 AM
A scenario I like (which is highly improbable), is McCoy getting the Jacksonville job, we trade Tebow to Jacksonville for their high 2nd and maybe a 4th or 5th rounder next year. Then we turn around and hire Tom Clements from GB to be our new OC and bring in Matt Flynn. Then we have the perfect system guy in Flynn and a good system in GB's offense. Turn around and use the draft picks to get better on the offensive line and another WR and RB. Use later picks on secondary and hope we get lucky there. Then we would have a middle of the road offense and a middle of the road defense without having to mortgage the future picks to move up in the 1st.

This isnt actually that improrable at all. The only hang ups would be Clements as the new OC. Alot of other teams and college teams have him high on their "wish list". and then theres the Flynn contract. If DEN could get him for say,
4 yr 35-37 million, it wouldnt be that big of a deal. But of course we have the idiots in ARI to thank for giving Kolb stupid money and driving up the price.
Meanwhile Skelton is making progress as a QB the way we in DEN wish Tebow would do, and making kolb obsolete.

VonSackemMiller
01-03-2012, 11:57 AM
whose skelton throwing too again? Oh okay damn no wonder hes making progress.

Nomad
01-03-2012, 12:00 PM
They still might. The Polians were Manning's biggest supporters, Irsay might want to cut loose Manning and rebuild with Luck, new front office and new HC.

I was just echoing what some of the talking heads were saying on NFLN.

As far as Tebow, I'm all for giving him his offseason and another shot but I believe Jacksonville would be the only buyer with tebow's stock high right now and they are desperate for revenue and the fanbase is there. It'll be interesting to see. Then again, Jacksonville would have to start him or the place would burn:lol:

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 12:02 PM
You can't worry about that. You do your research watch film and if you deem he looks like the real dealyoh pull the trigger. You can't look at other situations and base your decision on those. Each situation is different. Flynn IMO is a safer bet than anyone in the draft other than Luck. Sure he could be the next Kolb, but he could be the next Favre or Steve Young too. Sometimes you gotta just roll the dice.

Steve Young was a high #1 pick. Farve was a 2nd round pick. Matt Flynn was drafted in the 7th round. Really you can't compare the 3.

Flynn is a huge gamble and seems more like a Matt Cassell (7th round). There's a reason these guys were picked so low.

Now Brady was the one exception (5th round pick), but the Pats kept him over Bledsoe. That shows you that if a team really thinks the guy is great they are going to keep him, not trade him away.

MOtorboat
01-03-2012, 12:02 PM
whose skelton throwing too again? Oh okay damn no wonder hes making progress.

Receivers don't make quarterbacks.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 12:03 PM
whose skelton throwing too again? Oh okay damn no wonder hes making progress.

Soon Teblow will be in Florida again. Throwing 10 yard outs into the dirt at the WRs feet. Just be patient.

Traveler
01-03-2012, 12:08 PM
AZ got burned with Kolb. Let's not make the same mistake with Flynn. Luckily, AZ left themselves ways to get out the majority of his contract. Someone will roll the dice on Flynn based solely on his big game on Sunday, just hope it isn't us.

Nomad
01-03-2012, 12:08 PM
Flynn wouldn't have all this hype if it wasn't for Jamarcus Russell:lol:

EDIT: I'm sure most of you don't get it, but if J Russell wouldn't have gotten hurt in the SECCG and Flynn played great to win that game and the NCG then his stock would have never risen to a 7th and he'd be some desk jockey right now because no one would have seen him play and/or drafted him.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 12:11 PM
AZ got burned with Kolb. Let's not make the same mistake with Flynn. Someone will roll the dice on him based solely on his big game on Sunday, just hope it isn't us.

Flynn has played well in a couple games now.
Its not just one game. I remember being impressed with him last year when he almost beat NE. He has all the tools and has been tutored under 2 highly regarded coaches in GB. I am not saying he will be the next Rogers, but hes light years ahead of Timmy.

turftoad
01-03-2012, 12:12 PM
They still might. The Polians were Manning's biggest supporters, Irsay might want to cut loose Manning and rebuild with Luck, new front office and new HC.

I agree. I think Mannings time in Indy is done.

Northman
01-03-2012, 12:13 PM
Flynn has played well in a couple games now.
Its not just one game. I remember being impressed with him last year when he almost beat NE. He has all the tools and has been tutored under 2 highly regarded coaches in GB. I am not saying he will be the next Rogers, but hes light years ahead of Timmy.

Unfortuantely, its the same senario as Tim Tebow and Derek Anderson. Not enough game film. I would have to see how Flynn performs for a season or two before signing him to any large contract.

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 12:14 PM
Matt Schuab is probably one of the only backups who have been successfull in the last decade. But he was a 3rd round pick and has huge measuarables (6-5 244 lbs)

Flynn is small (6-2 225) and was a low pick (7th round).

VonSackemMiller
01-03-2012, 12:14 PM
Receivers don't make quarterbacks.

Yeah skelton is just that good........

Traveler
01-03-2012, 12:15 PM
Flynn has played well in a couple games now.
Its not just one game. I remember being impressed with him last year when he almost beat NE. He has all the tools and has been tutored under 2 highly regarded coaches in GB. I am not saying he will be the next Rogers, but hes light years ahead of Timmy.

No argument there. Just too many variables to consider IMO. Namely, will we have the same OC or scheme, and of course the contract.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 12:15 PM
Unfortuantely, its the same senario as Tim Tebow and Derek Anderson. Not enough game film. I would have to see how Flynn performs for a season or two before signing him to any large contract.

Oh i agree. No big money. However, if DEN is stuck in a hole come draft time, Flynn may be the man. The scenario of getting Clements with Flynn would be fantastic though.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 12:17 PM
No argument there. Just too many variables to consider IMO. Namely, will we have the same OC or scheme, and of course the contract.

If DEN can get Clements with Flynn, that to me would change alot in regards to Flynn at QB. I would be much more open to the idea. Allen has the defense clicking. get the O going, and DEN might have something.

Bronco Bible
01-03-2012, 12:22 PM
so what happened to all the tebow maniacs saying he was the next elway for this team???

who exactly said that vettes?

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 12:22 PM
I think getting a number 1 WR, a stud TE are more important then wasting all the money on a crapshoot like Flynn.

If you need a developing QB then get one late in the draft. There are about 7 QBs with potential in this draft.

NightTerror218
01-03-2012, 12:43 PM
Flynn is going to be just like Cassell. Only good because of team he is on and knows system. Packers offense is stacked.

Traveler
01-03-2012, 12:45 PM
Flynn is going to be just like Cassell. Only good because of team he is on and knows system. Packers offense is stacked.

My assumption too.

rcsodak
01-03-2012, 01:17 PM
Completely unimpressed with Schaub; he could easily have run into the corner of the end zone on the last play against the Raiders and won the game, but forced an easy pick instead. The Texans are right behind Denver as my favorite team, and I'd personally like to see Leinart battle Schaub for the starting job next year; he looked surprisingly good until he broke his collar bone.

Steve Young is an apples to oranges comparison; he wasn't an obscure backup who suddenly rocketed to fame and popularity relieving a great offenses injured star. The Bucs DUMPED him on SF:

"The Buccaneers selected University of Miami quarterback Vinny Testaverde first overall in the 1987 NFL Draft because Young was deemed a bust, and he was traded to the San Francisco 49ers on April 24, 1987, to serve as a backup to Joe Montana."

So the moral of that story isn't "grab the first backup QB who does well in a few games with a world class offense" but "don't switch horses in midstream."

Seriously, Tebow has two bad games and suddenly folks have "seen enough" because the sky is falling? And we'll just completely ignore the 7 good games that got us to the playoffs. He must get better, but neither the good nor bad games tell the whole tale of the season (though there are three times as many of the former,) much less the career. He took a big step backward last week, but that's no more reason to throw in the towel than the many previous steps forward were reason to declare him a life time starter.

Wait, I know: Let's TRADE Tebow for Flynn PLUS the Colts #1 overall pick; it worked with Cutler, right? No? Maybe just keep doing what we're doing then. ;)

I would hate to see a debate between you/G_money. ;')

So lleinert had a good game? What did you like the most? The 3yd average?
:lol:

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Northman
01-03-2012, 01:18 PM
I would hate to see a debate between you/G_money. ;')

So lleinert had a good game? What did you like the most? The 3yd average?
:lol:

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums


Indeed. Most of the time i like Joel's take but he is way off the mark regarding Schaub.

dogfish
01-03-2012, 02:46 PM
Unfortuantely, its the same senario as Tim Tebow and Derek Anderson. Not enough game film. I would have to see how Flynn performs for a season or two before signing him to any large contract.

you can't make a legit evaluation of a guy based on six or seven quarters of film-- you just can't. . .

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 02:50 PM
With all due respect, I think it's a bit too early to make such an assertion. let's wait and see some more.

Krugan
01-03-2012, 02:50 PM
Would you much rather Elway spend another year of futility with "I Can't Pass With Consistency Tebow"?

Tebow has spit-up a lung trying to show the entire football world that he can't throw the ball. Even his form and mechanics are horrible!

He looks like he's throwing a grenade vs throwing a football!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_296w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/early-lead/Images/Chiefs_Broncos_Football_0675c.jpg?

I doubt very seriously during the 6 months of the off season Tebow can correct the numerous passing deficiencies and fundamentals in his passing game. In fact, Tebow may have already peaked.

Delayed response sorry.

Just as much risk as taking a back up who has little live game time. My response was more geared toward people wanting what ever was flashy this week, its no wonder that companies can make a new phone every 3 months and its sells.

Lemmings

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 02:52 PM
Delayed response sorry.

Just as much risk as taking a back up who has little live game time. My response was more geared toward people wanting what ever was flashy this week, its no wonder that companies can make a new phone every 3 months and its sells.

Lemmings

That throwing motion is just crazy.
http://sportscasm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Tim-Tebow-Sports-Illustrated-Cover.jpg

Traveler
01-03-2012, 03:01 PM
The ironic part about this Tebow discussion is that everything Elway & Company said about Tebow as a passer has been proved true. Kid's a winner, does have intangibles, and does inspire his teamates, but he isn't a pro-caliber QB at this time. Not sure if he ever will be.

Just wanted it on record that Elway's comments earlier this were truer than many of us want acknowledge. Not even the most die-hard Tebow supporters can dispute this. Maybe Elway does know what he is doing.

NightTerror218
01-03-2012, 03:07 PM
Funny how we lose a couple straight games and people are calling for his head, after stating they would ride him out and called him the 2012 starter. Bronco fans can be so bi-polar with QBs.

vandammage13
01-03-2012, 03:10 PM
Kevin kolb gives this thread two thumbs up!

So does fellow former Eagles backup AJ Feely. (I believe the Dolphins were duped into giving up a 2nd Rounder for him after like 3 good games coming in for McNabb.)

Rob Johnson and Matt Cassel say hello as well.

vandammage13
01-03-2012, 03:13 PM
The ironic part about this Tebow discussion is that everything Elway & Company said about Tebow as a passer has been proved true. Kid's a winner, does have intangibles, and does inspire his teamates, but he isn't a pro-caliber QB at this time. Not sure if he ever will be.

Just wanted it on record that Elway's comments earlier this were truer than many of us want acknowledge. Not even the most die-hard Tebow supporters can dispute this. Maybe Elway does know what he is doing.

I am inclined to agree, but then I remember Elway's first year and how it didn't turn out so bad with him.

*Commence "Don't compare Elway to Tebow" comments below....

Nomad
01-03-2012, 03:25 PM
Funny how we lose a couple straight games and people are calling for his head, after stating they would ride him out and called him the 2012 starter. Bronco fans can be so bi-polar with QBs.

I guess in the end it doesn't matter what we think.....it'll be all in what Elway wants to do with this Tebow hoopla. Tebow should get his due to improve because many here have stated before, it takes a few years for a QB to develop in a system.

I believe it has to do with more of the hype and crazed Tebow followers that drive longtime BRONCO fans nuts and sick and tired of the bs, that personally I have never seen before. It doesn't bother me much but it does get old at times and being Tebow is struggling, it's easier to justify to dump him and his crazed fans. I beleive without them Tebow would have more leeway with more BRONCO fans. Frustration always gets the best of people.

Ideally, it would be great to give Tebow his chance this offseason and keep improving the team's holes, find a solid QB to come in and compete or back up Tebow and see what this team brings next year.

Traveler
01-03-2012, 03:26 PM
I am inclined to agree, but then I remember Elway's first year and how it didn't turn out so bad with him.

*Commence "Don't compare Elway to Tebow" comments below....

True! Elway's issues weren't he could pass, rather he threw everything so hard, with little touch.

Not insinuating we give up on Timmy altogether. Just suggesting they bring in someone to hold things down till Timmy gets trained properly without all the surrounding hoopla.

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:00 PM
http://www.6magazineonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ox281254923868427518.jpg

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:02 PM
http://www.betbigdc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Andrew-Luck-ESPN.jpg

Nomad
01-03-2012, 04:02 PM
http://www.6magazineonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ox281254923868427518.jpg

What does he look like in a Colts uniform....if you know how to do that sort of thing because I don't.

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:03 PM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/81/814582.jpg

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:06 PM
https://www.mydfwstore.com/Images/LargePhotos/1078-Roger%20drop%20back%20large%20good.jpg

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:11 PM
Cons: The biggest issue with Luck is his awkward throwing motion. He has a windup that causes him to drop the ball below his waist before he throws it which, unlike Tim Tebow’s, doesn’t appear to add momentum to Luck’s passes. In many ways the windup is separate from his actual throwing motion

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Players/List/2013-Big-Board/Andrew-Luck.html

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:23 PM
Andrew Luck may not be the best looking, but wow can he ever throw a football and make decisions with his head, AND his feet and arms.

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:24 PM
Cons: The biggest issue with Luck is his awkward throwing motion. He has a windup that causes him to drop the ball below his waist before he throws it which, unlike Tim Tebow’s, doesn’t appear to add momentum to Luck’s passes. In many ways the windup is separate from his actual throwing motion

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Players/List/2013-Big-Board/Andrew-Luck.html

you are really grasping for straws there tim hippo. I'm sorry, but that ball get's ouit of his hands in a hurry and with laster precision.

Nomad
01-03-2012, 04:25 PM
Andrew Luck may not be the best looking, but wow can he ever throw a football and make decisions with his head, AND his feet and arms.

He has those popeye forearms

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:31 PM
you are really grasping for straws there tim hippo. I'm sorry, but that ball get's ouit of his hands in a hurry and with laster precision.

That's from an NFL scout. But somehow you know more than NFL scouts.

Cons: The biggest issue with Luck is his awkward throwing motion. He has a windup that causes him to drop the ball below his waist before he throws it which, unlike Tim Tebow’s, doesn’t appear to add momentum to Luck’s passes. In many ways the windup is separate from his actual throwing motion

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Players/List/2013-Big-Board/Andrew-Luck.html

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:31 PM
He has those popeye forearms

does he? I did not notice. Looks like he could chew nails fart and thunderbolts though

Joel
01-03-2012, 04:32 PM
I would hate to see a debate between you/G_money. ;')
We've debated Denvers line a few times, IIRC; I kinda felt bad for him taking a SEVERE handicap in trying to defend Beadles and Walton, but on the other hand: He volunteered, so....

So lleinert had a good game? What did you like the most? The 3yd average?
:lol:
4.4, but that's not important: HE WAS 10/13!!! Since completion percentage is the sole arbiter of passer effectiveness, that AUTOMATICALLY makes Leinart great. :tongue:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=311127030

Perhaps I should have said, "I was surprised by how well he played," because he set the bar pretty low in AZ. He looked good enough against the Jags, and Schaub has looked bad enough in his Texans career, that I'd like to see them compete in TC. I've never liked Schaub in Houston; I think Kubes makes him look MUCH better than he is. He has a truckload of great receivers, multiple good runners to take pressure off his arm, and the exceptional pass blocking necessary for a team to be a running AND passing juggernaut. It's amazing what a great line can do for a whole offense.

That brings things us back to my discussions with G_Money and one of the many reasons I don't want Denver spending THEIR "money" on a high profile one game wonder QB who won't do any better than Tebow or Orton if he's all we have. For Petes sake, our only good guard just went down with an injury so severe he may never be 100% again, and speaking of folks who aren't 100% due to injury, have you watched Clady much lately? There's more to a football team than QBs, folks; the Broncos front office USED to understand that. Oh, well, at least Kubiak still gets it, so ONE of the teams I like won't be sucked into that, "We never get >.500 because we spend all our money and draft picks on a new QB every 2 years; obviously, WE NEED A NEW QB111"

Know why this reminds me of 1983? It's not the QBs in the draft, it's becuase I thought I left "good QB=good team; bad team=bad QB" in third grade.

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:34 PM
That's from an NFL scout. But somehow you know more than NFL scouts.

Oh my. did you say NFL scout?

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:37 PM
Oh my. did you say NFL scout?

You heard me, Sulu.

TXBRONC
01-03-2012, 04:45 PM
That's from an NFL scout. But somehow you know more than NFL scouts.

Cons: The biggest issue with Luck is his awkward throwing motion. He has a windup that causes him to drop the ball below his waist before he throws it which, unlike Tim Tebow’s, doesn’t appear to add momentum to Luck’s passes. In many ways the windup is separate from his actual throwing motion

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Players/List/2013-Big-Board/Andrew-Luck.html

Like source you cited is only legitmate one out there? I don't think so.

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:47 PM
You heard me, Sulu.

what is sulu?

I don't take an analysts, even a well paid analyst"s talk as gospel. If you look at it, it's really not that risque and I have little respect for that. If you're going to be a bear be a grizzly and if you want to get to know your local butcher, put your head up a cow's ass. Hey, it's just the way I roll

Nomad
01-03-2012, 04:49 PM
what is sulu?

I don't take an analysts, even a well paid analyst"s talk as gospel. If you look at it, it's really not that risque and I have little respect for that. If you're going to be a bear be a grizzly and if you want to get to know your local butcher, put your head up a cow's ass. Hey, it's just the way I roll

Polar bears are pretty badass!

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:49 PM
Like source you cited is only legitmate one out there? I don't think so.

That's an evasion.
So you don't think Luck has an unorthodox throwing motion? Yes or No.

I watched last nights game and he brings the ball down to his hip in the same fashion that Tebow does.

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:51 PM
That's an evasion.
So you don't think Luck has an unorthodox throwing motion? Yes or No.

I watched last nights game and he brings the ball down to his hip in the same fashion that Tebow does.

I am not being evasive. I think Luck is an unorthodox quarterback who possesses some unorthodox behaviors. How is that for being evasive?

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:52 PM
I am not being evasive. I think Luck is an unorthodox quarterback who possesses some unorthodox behaviors. How is that for being evasive?

Oh, sorry, I thought you quoted me.

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:52 PM
Polar bears are pretty badass!

that's what I've heard.

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:52 PM
I am not being evasive. I think Luck is an unorthodox quarterback who possesses some unorthodox behaviors. How is that for being evasive?

I wasn't talking to you about being evasive.
Unless you are saying you have two accounts.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 04:53 PM
That's an evasion.
So you don't think Luck has an unorthodox throwing motion? Yes or No.

I watched last nights game and he brings the ball down to his hip in the same fashion that Tebow does.

So does Jay Cutler. So did Dan Marino.
http://the305.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/DanMarino3.jpg
http://news.fanfeedr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/nfl_g_marino_580.jpeg
http://product.images.fansedge.com/33-21/33-21274-F.jpg

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:53 PM
I wasn't talking to you about being evasive.
Unless you are saying you have two accounts.

I understand this. I addresssed just that in the previous post.

TimHippo
01-03-2012, 04:54 PM
So does Jay Cutler. So did Dan Marino.
http://the305.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/DanMarino3.jpg
http://news.fanfeedr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/nfl_g_marino_580.jpeg
http://product.images.fansedge.com/33-21/33-21274-F.jpg

And Marino was supposed to have the quickest release out of them all. Why is it only a big deal for Tim Tebow. Seems strange.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 04:55 PM
http://cdn.everyjoe.com/files/2009/04/jay-cutler-bears-zumasportsworld237187-20081214-jac-d82.jpg

http://media.mlive.com/lions_impact/photo/jay-cutler-chicago-bears-fca85ffda112d45d_large.jpg

BroncoNut
01-03-2012, 04:56 PM
Jay Cutler needs to at least look like he's having fun playing football.

SOCALORADO.
01-03-2012, 04:57 PM
And Marino was supposed to have the quickest release out of them all. Why is it only a big deal for Tim Tebow. Seems strange.

Because Tebow has the SLOWEST, most crazy-ass, jacked up, wierd, takes all damn day throwing motion ever.
Marino was lighting. He could literally throw from the hip and hit a draped, covered reciever 40 yards down field on a frozen rope in the hands.
Cutler has a blazing fast release from the hip too.

VonSackemMiller
01-03-2012, 06:43 PM
smh the list just keeps piling on tebow. first it was oh tebow drops the ball to low when hes loading up so hell never be good. ive never seen a qb drop it so low, thats bad mechanics, then when people find out other greats like marino and even brees drops it low then people wanna make up something else to counter that. smh

enough is enough.

GEM
01-03-2012, 06:50 PM
Difference is.....Marino, Brees, Rivers and Cutler can all throw accurately in spite of their strange wind ups and mechanics. Tebow can't. :coffee:

MOtorboat
01-03-2012, 06:53 PM
Difference is.....Marino, Brees, Rivers and Cutler can all throw accurately in spite of their strange wind ups and mechanics. Tebow can't. :coffee:

That's his receivers' fault.

Krugan
01-03-2012, 06:57 PM
everytime I read "smh" im kinda thinking your sucking spit out of a retainer, not picking at you, just saying it reads wierd

VonSackemMiller
01-03-2012, 08:06 PM
Difference is.....Marino, Brees, Rivers and Cutler can all throw accurately in spite of their strange wind ups and mechanics. Tebow can't. :coffee:

havent you had enough.

broncosfannum24
01-04-2012, 12:16 AM
Look who flynn has to throw to compared to tebow... not even close

Look at who's his o coordinator compared to ours hahaha joke of the year

Don't get fooled cause of one game same with tebow, Kevin kolb looked good but look who scheme he was in when in Philly

This is the same scheme that made AJ Feely look good and he went to Miami and fizzeled out

GEM
01-04-2012, 11:41 AM
havent you had enough.

Let me dumb down a post to jr high level so you can understand it.

Had EnOuGh what, SoN? YouZ got No GaMe. Yo, StOp hAnGiNG from TiM's nuTs. He KiNd of sux for a QB.

TimHippo
01-04-2012, 02:47 PM
Difference is.....Marino, Brees, Rivers and Cutler can all throw accurately in spite of their strange wind ups and mechanics. Tebow can't. :coffee:

Tebow threw fine at Florida. I'm not sure where this myth that he has never thrown accurately comes from.
66% completion rate
170.8 QBR
8.8 TD rate
1.8 INT rate

claymore
01-04-2012, 02:51 PM
Tebow threw fine at Florida. I'm not sure where this myth that he has never thrown accurately comes from.
66% completion rate
170.8 QBR
8.8 TD rate
1.8 INT rate

To bad thay doesnt translate to the NFL.

TXBRONC
01-04-2012, 02:51 PM
Tebow threw fine at Florida. I'm not sure where this myth that he has never thrown accurately comes from.
66% completion rate
170.8 QBR
8.8 TD rate
1.8 INT rate

It's not a myth. What he did in college means absolutely nothing. The stats that meaning anything now are the ones he's accumulating as a pro quarterback.

TimHippo
01-04-2012, 03:00 PM
It's not a myth. What he did in college means absolutely nothing. The stats that meaning anything now are the ones he's accumulating as a pro quarterback.

No, what the person said was that somehow Tebow wasn't accurate with that throwing motion where Marino, Cutler, Staubach were. And that's simply not true.

claymore
01-04-2012, 03:01 PM
No, what the person said was that somehow Tebow wasn't accurate with that throwing motion where Marino, Cutler, Staubach were. And that's simply not true.

I think they meant in the NFL.

TXBRONC
01-04-2012, 03:06 PM
No, what the person said was that somehow Tebow wasn't accurate with that throwing motion where Marino, Cutler, Staubach were. And that's simply not true.

She's still talking about the pros not what he did in college therefore she's right on the money.

TimHippo
01-04-2012, 03:11 PM
She's still talking about the pros not what he did in college therefore she's right on the money.

She didnt' say pros.
If the throwing motion was so problematic then it would not have worked in the SEC which many people think has the best athletes and NFL caliber players. But it did.

TXBRONC
01-04-2012, 03:18 PM
She didnt' say pros.
If the throwing motion was so problematic then it would not have worked in the SEC which many people think has the best athletes and NFL caliber players. But it did.

That's what she meant that I'm reasonably sure of.

Not true the SEC is still not the NFL the speed and what it takes to win are different.

TimHippo
01-04-2012, 03:23 PM
That's what she meant that I'm reasonably sure of.

Not true the SEC is still not the NFL the speed and what it takes to win are different.

Is this why two SEC teams are playing in the BCS title game.

The last five BCS champs have been SEC.

I don't even like the SEC but they are miles ahead of the other conferences and approximate the NFL speed, athleticism and skill closely.

TXBRONC
01-04-2012, 03:51 PM
Is this why two SEC teams are playing in the BCS title game.

The last five BCS champs have been SEC.

I don't even like the SEC but they are miles ahead of the other conferences and approximate the NFL speed, athleticism and skill closely.

I don't dispute that the SEC is the strongest conference in college football but please it's not even approximately the same speed, athleticism, and skill level as the pros. I

SOCALORADO.
01-04-2012, 04:06 PM
No, what the person said was that somehow Tebow wasn't accurate with that throwing motion where Marino, Cutler, Staubach were. And that's simply not true.

None of those QBs throw like Tebow. The closest player in the NFL i have ever seen throw like Tebow is Byron Leftwich, and it isnt even close to being as bad as Tebow. Excuse me. EDIT.
Timmy has no mechanics whatsoever. Sometimes he is throwing off of a different foot. Sometimes off his left foot, sometime off his right. If he is given huge amounts of room, and has all the time in the world to visualize his throw before he actually does it, he can throw a football somewhat competently. He has a huge wind up. Its really pathetic. :lol:

Ravage!!!
01-04-2012, 04:14 PM
She didnt' say pros.
If the throwing motion was so problematic then it would not have worked in the SEC which many people think has the best athletes and NFL caliber players. But it did.

This is completely inaccurate.

Despite people thinking the SEC is "nearly pro"..its not. ITs not even close. Tim's WRs were FARRR better than nearly all his competition. He threw to wide open WRs, and the DEs he faced in college weren't ALWAYS NFL caliber. The NFL, ALWAYS has NFL caliber players.

THere is a WORLD of difference between college and pro. If you watch games of Tim in Florida, he wasn't an accurate thrower in college when it came to "NFL type" throws. He was good with the wide open guy, or going deep where his WRs could go up and after the ball, out manhandling the lesser athletes. Doesnt' work that way in the NFL.

Tim's throwing motion is horrible. His feet and his arms, his hips... its all off. Things that would help him "speed up" his delivery as well as speed up his timing to the WRs, aren't there.

VonSackemMiller
01-04-2012, 04:26 PM
Is this why two SEC teams are playing in the BCS title game.

The last five BCS champs have been SEC.

I don't even like the SEC but they are miles ahead of the other conferences and approximate the NFL speed, athleticism and skill closely.

Not too mention about 13 players form this game will be getting drafted this year. lol the SEC is the baby NFL.

VonSackemMiller
01-04-2012, 04:33 PM
When are people going to realize that the NFL is made up of college players? Lol when people act like the NFL speed and talent is so dramatically differant than college i laugh. I guess the NFL are getting there players from outta space somewhere.

MOtorboat
01-04-2012, 04:39 PM
Toto, I don't think we're in the SEC any more.

MOtorboat
01-04-2012, 04:42 PM
When are people going to realize that the NFL is made up of college players? Lol when people act like the NFL speed and talent is so dramatically differant than college i laugh. I guess the NFL are getting there players from outta space somewhere.

:speechless:

chazoe60
01-04-2012, 04:43 PM
:speechless:

Bullshit, nothing could shut you up.

MOtorboat
01-04-2012, 04:52 PM
Bullshit, nothing could shut you up.

I sat in front of a blank box, thinking about responding to that, and had nothing. The statement is so patently absurd.

Ravage!!!
01-04-2012, 05:45 PM
When are people going to realize that the NFL is made up of college players? Lol when people act like the NFL speed and talent is so dramatically differant than college i laugh. I guess the NFL are getting there players from outta space somewhere.

This is funny.

Of course the pros are made up of college athletes, and college is made up of high school athletes. Going by your "line" of thinking, the pros are nearly the same thing as HS football players.

Its very simple. Florida has a much higher recruiting ability than most of their rivals. Nearly every one of them. So they have much higher caliber players on the Florida team than those they play.

When you play an average college football team, they might have one, or two... possibly three college prospects on the defensive side of the ball. Of those three, one will make it and none will be stars. So almost every time you play, 9-11 players on the opposing defense is NOT NFL caliber.

This is why the really GOOD athletes in college, stand out. They are college stars because their athletic ability stands heads above the rest on the field.

However, when you get into the pros, rarely do you really stand out. EVERY player on the opposing defense is one of the best of the best, and was good enough to make it to the next level. Tebow isn't going to outrun the DEs and LBs on a regular basis in this league like he was in college. Tebow was a GREAT colleg player, because he's a great athlete. But EVERY player in the NFL is a great athlete. He's no longer playing against teams that have only a couple top caliber players.

The defenses Tim faced in college were vanilla in comparison to what they run in the NFL. The offense he ran in college, was vanilla, but it was good enough because Florida had better athletes than the opposing teams.

Doesn't work that way in the NFL.

SOCALORADO.
01-04-2012, 05:51 PM
This is funny.

Of course the pros are made up of college athletes, and college is made up of high school athletes. Going by your "line" of thinking, the pros are nearly the same thing as HS football players.

Its very simple. Florida has a much higher recruiting ability than most of their rivals. Nearly every one of them. So they have much higher caliber players on the Florida team than those they play.

When you play an average college football team, they might have one, or two... possibly three college prospects on the defensive side of the ball. Of those three, one will make it and none will be stars. So almost every time you play, 9-11 players on the opposing defense is NOT NFL caliber.

This is why the really GOOD athletes in college, stand out. They are college stars because their athletic ability stands heads above the rest on the field.

However, when you get into the pros, rarely do you really stand out. EVERY player on the opposing defense is one of the best of the best, and was good enough to make it to the next level. Tebow isn't going to outrun the DEs and LBs on a regular basis in this league like he was in college. Tebow was a GREAT colleg player, because he's a great athlete. But EVERY player in the NFL is a great athlete. He's no longer playing against teams that have only a couple top caliber players.

The defenses Tim faced in college were vanilla in comparison to what they run in the NFL. The offense he ran in college, was vanilla, but it was good enough because Florida had better athletes than the opposing teams.

Doesn't work that way in the NFL.

Nailed it.

NightTerror218
01-04-2012, 05:53 PM
Nailed it.

Where have you been? When Tebow was playing well and improving and Broncos were winning you were gone.

GEM
01-04-2012, 06:40 PM
Tebow threw fine at Florida. I'm not sure where this myth that he has never thrown accurately comes from.
66% completion rate
170.8 QBR
8.8 TD rate
1.8 INT rate

I don't give a shit how he threw at Florida. I care how he throws in Denver. Brees, Marino, Rivers and Cutler have weird wind ups and they throw accurately in the NFL, who gives a shit about the SEC, Pac 10 or whatever the **** that is. Talking NFL.

Didn't say never. I am talking right here, right now. As a Bronco, because I don't give two shits about Florida. He isn't accurate.

46% completion rate
72.9 QBR
12
271 att/12 td's=22.5 TD Rate
271 att/6 int's=45.1 INT Rate

Is that accuracy in college helping now? I think it points to he had a whole lotta talent around him at Florida, of which he don't have as much here.

So....leads to a bigger question. Was Gator success all about Timmy or moreso about the talent that surrounded him?

Thanks for pointing that out. :)

Ravage!!!
01-04-2012, 07:07 PM
Where have you been? When Tebow was playing well and improving and Broncos were winning you were gone.

I don't think Tim's play has changed or gotten worse. I think the fact that we haven't gotten lucky with defensive TDs, special teams TDs, fumble recoveries, Onside kick recoveries, 59 yrd FGs, the other teams fumbling in OT, and opposing RBs running out of bounds.....

has brought us back to reality.

catfish
01-04-2012, 07:14 PM
I don't give a shit how he threw at Florida. I care how he throws in Denver. Brees, Marino, Rivers and Cutler have weird wind ups and they throw accurately in the NFL, who gives a shit about the SEC, Pac 10 or whatever the **** that is. Talking NFL.

Didn't say never. I am talking right here, right now. As a Bronco, because I don't give two shits about Florida. He isn't accurate.

46% completion rate
72.9 QBR
12
271 att/12 td's=22.5 TD Rate
271 att/6 int's=45.1 INT Rate

Is that accuracy in college helping now? I think it points to he had a whole lotta talent around him at Florida, of which he don't have as much here.

So....leads to a bigger question. Was Gator success all about Timmy or moreso about the talent that surrounded him?

Thanks for pointing that out. :)

he isn't accurate on passes from 11-20 yards, he is pretty decent in all other ranges compared to players with his experience. He just throws more passes over 15 yds in the air than any qb currently in the league(whether by design or not I have no idea)

the td rate and int rate are pretty damn decent overall, probably due to the fact that while tight man coverage will lead to a lower % completion due to tighter windows, when they are completed the potential for a big play is higher

the question being asked now is are Tebows struggles due to Timmy or the talent surrounding him. Personally I think it is a little of column A and a little of column B, judging by the interviews with Fox and Elway they feel the same way

NightTerror218
01-04-2012, 07:16 PM
I don't think Tim's play has changed or gotten worse. I think the fact that we haven't gotten lucky with defensive TDs, special teams TDs, fumble recoveries, Onside kick recoveries, 59 yrd FGs, the other teams fumbling in OT, and opposing RBs running out of bounds.....

has brought us back to reality.

Tebow WAS playing well with ball control (turnovers). Running down the clock. Making simple reads. He ran into more trouble when game was put solely on his arm and he was forced to make plays from conventional offense. Our offense all around except Mcgahee is pretty bad. Clady, and Mcgahee could start for other teams, nobody else would. We have WRs with slippery hands and depend on body catches. OL who needs TE/RB to help block 4 guys during passing plays. A Qb who is timid to throw in tight windows. Who has problems with progressions and reading defenses. Tebows played last two games were apart of whole offensive woes. While he made some decisions and bad throws he also had to throw ball away a lot (in part to WRs not getting seperation and QB too timid to throw tight windows).

Those 7 wins also came with our team playing sound fundamental football. We did not make mistakes and took advantage of other teams mistakes when it mattered. Our offense is not one to make plays at all.

catfish
01-04-2012, 07:18 PM
Tebow WAS playing well with ball control (turnovers). Running down the clock. Making simple reads. He ran into more trouble when game was put solely on his arm and he was forced to make plays from conventional offense. Our offense all around except Mcgahee is pretty bad. Clady, and Mcgahee could start for other teams, nobody else would. We have WRs with slippery hands and depend on body catches. OL who needs TE/RB to help block 4 guys during passing plays. A Qb who is timid to throw in tight windows. Who has problems with progressions and reading defenses. Tebows played last two games were apart of whole offensive woes. While he made some decisions and bad throws he also had to throw ball away a lot (in part to WRs not getting seperation and QB too timid to throw tight windows).

Those 7 wins also came with our team playing sound fundamental football. We did not make mistakes and took advantage of other teams mistakes when it mattered. Our offense is not one to make plays at all.


agreed, and this is why Tebow's fumbles concern me more than his completion%

Medford Bronco
01-04-2012, 07:35 PM
Kevin kolb gives this thread two thumbs up!

Kevin kolb can make nfl throws when not hurt by a concussion

artie_dale
01-04-2012, 10:51 PM
Kevin kolb can make nfl throws when not hurt by a concussion

...or being pressured.

artie_dale
01-04-2012, 10:54 PM
I say to Tebow, a quote from Josh McDaniels (I still hate him), "DO YOUR F__KING JOB!!!" Which is be the quarterback. If you can't be the quarterback, I'm sure our decision makers will find one who can do that job. Do or die buddy... do or die. (more like "do or bench" or "do or cut/waived")

TXBRONC
01-05-2012, 07:45 AM
Bullshit, nothing could shut you up.

Keep him well supplied with his favorite beverage and he wont be saying much.

Dzone
01-05-2012, 08:37 AM
Mike Evans on 104.3 is getting A Tebow tattoo on his arm today because of a bet he made months ago. What an Idiot!!!!OMG.

elwayisgod
01-05-2012, 09:25 AM
Have pairs in Sec 302 (Club Level) $435, Sec 513 Row 17 $166 and Sec 531 Row 34 $190. These are the total cost I paid ticketmaster. No markup!!!! Email me: elwayisgod@hotmail.com

SOCALORADO.
01-05-2012, 10:02 AM
Where have you been? When Tebow was playing well and improving and Broncos were winning you were gone.

TT never played well.
The defense and Matt Prater played well. Prater should be MVP of the team at years end.
Beating the MINs and MIAs and getting SMOKED by the DETs and NEs isnt "playing well". Good try though. :lol:
Oh and i am sure Kyle Orton has sent the crow as a late Christmas present to Bowlen. And as i've stated countless times, Kyle Orton sucks. But he sure is laughing right now.
John Fox deserves 110% of the credit for taking chicken shit and making chicken salad. And so many ate it up.

TXBRONC
01-05-2012, 10:48 AM
I don't give a shit how he threw at Florida. I care how he throws in Denver. Brees, Marino, Rivers and Cutler have weird wind ups and they throw accurately in the NFL, who gives a shit about the SEC, Pac 10 or whatever the **** that is. Talking NFL.

Didn't say never. I am talking right here, right now. As a Bronco, because I don't give two shits about Florida. He isn't accurate.

46% completion rate
72.9 QBR
12
271 att/12 td's=22.5 TD Rate
271 att/6 int's=45.1 INT Rate

Is that accuracy in college helping now? I think it points to he had a whole lotta talent around him at Florida, of which he don't have as much here.

So....leads to a bigger question. Was Gator success all about Timmy or moreso about the talent that surrounded him?

Thanks for pointing that out. :)

Gals that know football and can add a smidgen of smack are incredibly hot. :salute:

WARHORSE
01-15-2012, 10:59 PM
Man that Pittsburg game was awesome, huh?


If the only reason Tim Tebow has come to Denver was for me to see that overtime throw to DT, well, it was worth it.

As a team that has been begging for some good news, the roar of the Mile High crowd during that play alone was stunning.

Talk about 70 plus thousand people who probably figured the Steelers were going to win hitting the lottery. What an experience.


But now lets bump this thread cause Tim isnt going to be the answer under center here for the fulltime future.


Right now, theyre saying GB is not going to franchise Flynn. IF that is true and he makes it to free agency, then I say we should move to draw him in here.

Denver is not going to survive on 45% passing, no matter how much I like Tim Tebow.

There will be other suitors out there.........but we have alot to draw a good QB in here with.

Great organization, with young up and coming Oline and DT on the sidelines too. Running game that will flourish if we can get a great back in here.


Flynn to Win to my mantra until I see otherwise.

dogfish
01-15-2012, 11:11 PM
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/461/2wclkpk.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/84/2wclkpk.png/)