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View Full Version : Broncos Re-sign Ryan Harris to Replace Kuper



camdisco24
01-02-2012, 05:46 PM
The Broncos brought back a familiar face on the offensive line.

Tackle Ryan Harris, a starter from 2008-2010, re-signed on Monday, according to a team source, filling the roster spot left by guard Chris Kuper, who was placed on injured reserve.

Kuper broke his lower left leg and suffered a dislocated ankle in Sunday's 7-3 loss to Kansas City.

Rest....http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19660989

I think this is a good move, hopefully he is still in shape.

MOtorboat
01-02-2012, 05:47 PM
The question now is who is moved inside, Harris or Franklin.

Interesting.

igoe4broncos
01-02-2012, 06:02 PM
There's no way you sign a guy off the street to start right away in the playoffs. Harris is still coming off of that back injury, hence why the Eagles let him go. He was signed for depth in case more linemen go down.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2012, 06:04 PM
I'd love to see Harris back out at Tackle and Franklin bumped in to the RG spot. Harris is a better pass protector and Franklin is a better run blocker. I see Harris being an absolute STUD at Guard... a real mauler. He's so much better going forward than kick stepping out in pass coverage.

You'd think it would be obvious... then again. :whoknows:

TXBRONC
01-02-2012, 06:04 PM
The question now is who is moved inside, Harris or Franklin.

Interesting.

I would be inclined to move Franklin to the inside.

Dean
01-02-2012, 06:16 PM
Ryan Harris was a strong pass blocker. If he can at least be put in on obvious passing situations, a TE/H-back who had been assigned to help Franklin could be released into the pattern. This would be of help to a passing attack that needs every advantage that it can get.:confused:

Dzone
01-02-2012, 06:16 PM
Can the dude step into live action? Maybe put him in and see if he is any good for a couple plays. If he sucks , yank him out. I would hate to see him go in and get his ass kicked.

Magnificent Seven
01-02-2012, 06:21 PM
That's good, I like Ryan Harris. More powerful protectors.

dogfish
01-02-2012, 07:01 PM
realistically, this is as good a move as we could have hoped for-- IF the guy is healthy, he's significantly better than the typical street FA you can get this time of year. . . i'm guessing they'll roll with hochstein as a starter rather than harris, as russ has been with the team and in practice all year. . . at least harris knows a lot of our playbook and terminology-- if they do happen to start him, i definitely agree with the suggestion of playing harris at tackle and franklin at guard-- franklin has the best chance of replacing kupe's interior run blocking, and harris has far better feet. . .


honestly, what i'm more curious about is whether this opens the door for harris' return next year. . . the guy is a damn solid tackle when he is healthy-- might be worth taking one more chance on, especially if he now understands that his market value isn't high. . . bring the guy back on a short "prove-it" deal, he would provide some legit competition and depth on the line without spending a high draft pick. . .

Joel
01-02-2012, 07:15 PM
This could potentially be a very big deal, not against Pitt, but long term. A great deal depends on how well Harris has recovered from his injury, how well Kuper recovers from his, and the perceptiveness of our coaching staff. All that said, if we get Kuper back at or near 100% next year, Harris back at RT and Franklin to replace Beadles at LG we could have a very good very young offensive line. One of the great annoyances the past few years is that we have so little truly dominant talent at so many positions it's very hard to identify the weakest link; a solid line would go a long way toward fixing the problem of knowing which problems to fix.

Still not sold on Walton, but if things shake out logically, one bad lineman instead of four (hopefully Clady is back in healthy form next year) would improve our whole offense, whoever's at the all important "skill" positions.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-02-2012, 10:15 PM
We also re-signed Jeremy Jarmon (remember the guy we traded Gaffney for?) to a "future contract" along with some other guys I've never heard of.

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/kuper-to-ir-harris-signed/

TXBRONC
01-02-2012, 10:30 PM
realistically, this is as good a move as we could have hoped for-- IF the guy is healthy, he's significantly better than the typical street FA you can get this time of year. . . i'm guessing they'll roll with hochstein as a starter rather than harris, as russ has been with the team and in practice all year. . . at least harris knows a lot of our playbook and terminology-- if they do happen to start him, i definitely agree with the suggestion of playing harris at tackle and franklin at guard-- franklin has the best chance of replacing kupe's interior run blocking, and harris has far better feet. . .


honestly, what i'm more curious about is whether this opens the door for harris' return next year. . . the guy is a damn solid tackle when he is healthy-- might be worth taking one more chance on, especially if he now understands that his market value isn't high. . . bring the guy back on a short "prove-it" deal, he would provide some legit competition and depth on the line without spending a high draft pick. . .

This exactly what I was thinking I heard that we had re-signed Harris. Franklin strength is run blocking and like you said Harris as mentioned is a very good offensive tackle when healthy. Even though Harris hasn't played all year I still the combination of Franklin at guard and Harris at tackle better than Hochstein at guard and Franklin at tackle.

bcbronc
01-02-2012, 11:32 PM
honestly, what i'm more curious about is whether this opens the door for harris' return next year. . . the guy is a damn solid tackle when he is healthy-- might be worth taking one more chance on, especially if he now understands that his market value isn't high. . . bring the guy back on a short "prove-it" deal, he would provide some legit competition and depth on the line without spending a high draft pick. . .

If he's willing to accept his body just won't hold up to being a 16 game starter, he would be the ideal depth player. Couldn't ask for a better "6th man" for the OL.

Elevation inc
01-03-2012, 05:24 AM
cool whatever gets us closer to getting walton and beadles off the field im okay with....

sneakers
01-03-2012, 06:08 AM
Next to be signed: Chad Mustard

TXBRONC
01-03-2012, 08:24 AM
cool whatever gets us closer to getting walton and beadles off the field im okay with....

Beadles maybe, Walton I really doubt it.

underrated29
01-03-2012, 10:31 AM
Oh yeah! I called this in my mini mock thread. Glad he is back with us. I really like him.

rcsodak
01-03-2012, 10:55 AM
Next to be signed: Chad Mustard
With a Candlestick in the Observatory.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Elevation inc
01-03-2012, 11:27 AM
Beadles maybe, Walton I really doubt it.


i know im just saying whatever we bring in that gets us closer to cutting those 2 I will be happy.....I loved both them on draft day and shook of there failures last year as rookies, but times this year they played even worse than when they were rookies, thats unacceptable in year 2 period. They say 3 years but its been bad....like jarvis moss bad performance


Im looking very hard at C peter Konz from Wisconsin and G Decastro from Stanford and I like what I see and they are both right there in the 18-21 range. Personally if its me I would move Kuper to LG next year, and Use Harris At RG or Franklin at RG and Harris at RT.....I would use clark as back up tackle and hochstein as back-up guard and I would cut walton and beadles cause they suck so damn bad.....i know that wont happen.....but 1 can dream.....I watched a replay of the buffalo game and the clinching had enough of this crap play for me was when Edwards not even dareus but edwards took walton and beadles and slammed em both to the ground to hit mcghaee for a 1 yd loss on 3rd and 1....i mean WTF that happens frequently with those 2...

Davii
01-03-2012, 06:37 PM
Per the Denver Post Ryan Harris is back in Denver. Harris was a three year starter for us but went to Philly in free agency this year. After hurting his back in training camp he reached an injury settlement and became a free agent. Ryan is a solid offensive lineman and I bet he'll stick around past this year. I imagine he's depth at this point but I wouldn't be surprised to see him starting on our line next year.

NightTerror218
01-03-2012, 06:48 PM
Per the Denver Post Ryan Harris is back in Denver. Harris was a three year starter for us but went to Philly in free agency this year. After hurting his back in training camp he reached an injury settlement and became a free agent. Ryan is a solid offensive lineman and I bet he'll stick around past this year. I imagine he's depth at this point but I wouldn't be surprised to see him starting on our line next year.

I saw Kupers broken leg when showed him on the ground. I said "Oh, my god". Foot twisted almost all the way around.

Davii
01-03-2012, 06:54 PM
I saw Kupers broken leg when showed him on the ground. I said "Oh, my god". Foot twisted almost all the way around.

Yeah, Kuper's leg was definitely badly broken. I hope he heals well.

NightTerror218
01-03-2012, 06:55 PM
Yeah, Kuper's leg was definitely badly broken. I hope he heals well.

So where will Harris play RT or RG?

Ziggy
01-03-2012, 06:56 PM
Great move by the Broncos. It gives me hope that they may slide Franklin inside and let Harris and Beadles compete for the RT spot next season.

camdisco24
01-03-2012, 07:01 PM
i know im just saying whatever we bring in that gets us closer to cutting those 2 I will be happy.....I loved both them on draft day and shook of there failures last year as rookies, but times this year they played even worse than when they were rookies, thats unacceptable in year 2 period. They say 3 years but its been bad....like jarvis moss bad performance


Im looking very hard at C peter Konz from Wisconsin and G Decastro from Stanford and I like what I see and they are both right there in the 18-21 range. Personally if its me I would move Kuper to LG next year, and Use Harris At RG or Franklin at RG and Harris at RT.....I would use clark as back up tackle and hochstein as back-up guard and I would cut walton and beadles cause they suck so damn bad.....i know that wont happen.....but 1 can dream.....I watched a replay of the buffalo game and the clinching had enough of this crap play for me was when Edwards not even dareus but edwards took walton and beadles and slammed em both to the ground to hit mcghaee for a 1 yd loss on 3rd and 1....i mean WTF that happens frequently with those 2...


Hopefully Harris has realized that his value is not as high as he thought and works hard to stay in Devner. I'm not expecting much this week, but I think bringing him back will be a big help next season. We need it bad, I've seen our OLine get abused one too many times.

dogfish
01-03-2012, 07:16 PM
lol. . . elevation likes walton and beadles less than i like brady quinn. . . :lol:

HORSEPOWER 56
01-03-2012, 08:26 PM
Merged.

Joel
01-03-2012, 09:00 PM
Great move by the Broncos. It gives me hope that they may slide Franklin inside and let Harris and Beadles compete for the RT spot next season.
If Harris is healthy that won't be a competition, but a rout. Hopefully Clady AND Kuper are healthy and playing well next year; then we'll just be a J.D. Walton away from a pretty good line.

lol. . . elevation likes walton and beadles less than i like brady quinn. . . :lol:
He's not the only one, man. There's a very simple explanation: Neither of them is very good. Their (rushing) STATS look good because Denver is 4th in rushing attempts and both our primary back AND QB are big, powerful pile moving rushers. Yet part of why McGahee's dinged up so much is because he so often gets hit at the line and has to muscle his way for a 3-4 yard gain. Another tell tale sign: When he has successive 10+ yard gains and has to leave the game for a breather, Ball comes in for half a yard and a cloud of dust. It doesn't help that Ball falls backward if you so much as look at him, but with better blocking he'd at least be doing it a few yards downfield. He gained all of ONE yard against NE before a LB tackled him while another defender stripped the ball, then a third fell on it.

Our running game simply isn't as good as it looks on paper; it's almost non-existent unless McGahee's in the game, and when the running game isn't there the first place I look is the guards.

Just to be clear: They're miserable pass blockers, too, but 1) I consider run blocking a higher priority in guards and 2) many excuse their pass blocking because they're such GREAT run blockers; trouble is, they aren't.

elwayisgod
01-04-2012, 08:17 AM
Wish this was good move.... Harris just cant stay healthy. Dude needs to retire. If he was healthy he wouldnt have been available. God knows we need to replace Walton and Beadles!!!!

CoachChaz
01-04-2012, 08:57 AM
I'm all for replacing the weak links and releasing them/making them backups...but thinking Harris is going to come in and be a starter next year is just silly. The guy has played in 46 of a possible 80 games in his career. Not the guy I want to rely on to protect a lefty's blind side. He's here for temporary depth

Elevation inc
01-04-2012, 09:31 AM
lol. . . elevation likes walton and beadles less than i like brady quinn. . . :lol:

i cant stand em....i give clady a passt his year cause he may be hurt, franklins a rookie, and while kuper has been off and on all year, when he is on its all pro caliber....but walton is rated as the worst starting center in the league for 2 years in a row now....the second worst??? a guy from minnesota thats 33 years old for christs sakes...thats how bad waltons been this year. Beadles consistently gets owned in pass protection and rarely gets push from the LG spot unless he pulls...its pathetic and i want both off the team now.....:lol:

so yeah your comparison may be spot on.....you also know im pretty damn willing to give players there shot, but damn its been pathetic no improvement on a consistent basis at all just hey look i made a good play but the next 30 will be crappy.....

Elevation inc
01-04-2012, 09:51 AM
I'm all for replacing the weak links and releasing them/making them backups...but thinking Harris is going to come in and be a starter next year is just silly. The guy has played in 46 of a possible 80 games in his career. Not the guy I want to rely on to protect a lefty's blind side. He's here for temporary depth


injuries are certainly a issue with him, but his play for 8 games a season is still better than beadles and walton for example over a 32 game sample......philly could have really used him if he was healthy....im sure he will work for us here no matter his role and we will see what happens, but when on the field for us harris produced.....

Jsteve01
01-04-2012, 02:30 PM
i cant stand em....i give clady a passt his year cause he may be hurt, franklins a rookie, and while kuper has been off and on all year, when he is on its all pro caliber....but walton is rated as the worst starting center in the league for 2 years in a row now....the second worst??? a guy from minnesota thats 33 years old for christs sakes...thats how bad waltons been this year. Beadles consistently gets owned in pass protection and rarely gets push from the LG spot unless he pulls...its pathetic and i want both off the team now.....:lol:

so yeah your comparison may be spot on.....you also know im pretty damn willing to give players there shot, but damn its been pathetic no improvement on a consistent basis at all just hey look i made a good play but the next 30 will be crappy.....


keep seeing this stat from pro football focus do you have a link their rankings?

Elevation inc
01-04-2012, 02:35 PM
keep seeing this stat from pro football focus do you have a link their rankings?

you have to pay 29.99 for there premium detailed stats.....if you feel like doing that just go to profootballfocus.com and sign up to be a premium member.

Im not allowed to post exact stuff cause its a copyright infringement best i can do is point people to the public articles.....

dogfish
01-04-2012, 02:37 PM
i cant stand em....i give clady a passt his year cause he may be hurt, franklins a rookie, and while kuper has been off and on all year, when he is on its all pro caliber....but walton is rated as the worst starting center in the league for 2 years in a row now....the second worst??? a guy from minnesota thats 33 years old for christs sakes...thats how bad waltons been this year. Beadles consistently gets owned in pass protection and rarely gets push from the LG spot unless he pulls...its pathetic and i want both off the team now.....:lol:

so yeah your comparison may be spot on.....you also know im pretty damn willing to give players there shot, but damn its been pathetic no improvement on a consistent basis at all just hey look i made a good play but the next 30 will be crappy.....

so, you still like them better than chaze likes orton, but not by much. . . :laugh:

Jsteve01
01-04-2012, 02:42 PM
you have to pay 29.99 for there premium detailed stats.....if you feel like doing that just go to profootballfocus.com and sign up to be a premium member.

Im not allowed to post exact stuff cause its a copyright infringement best i can do is point people to the public articles.....

I like their site but Im torn between them, football outsiders and cold hard football facts

Elevation inc
01-04-2012, 02:53 PM
so, you still like them better than chaze likes orton, but not by much. . . :laugh:



the last six games on a overall grading scale from profootball focus...keep in mind a real good game is a around a +2.0 and above, anything below 0.0 is bad anything below -2.0 is horrendous

Tebow- (+4.2) 4.2/6 = +0.7 AVG per game
Clady- (-12.4) -12.4/6= -2.06 AVG per game
Walton(-14.7) -14.7/6= -2.45 AVG per game
Beadles(-13.4) -13.4/6= -2.43 Avg per game
Franklin(-9.8) -9.8/6= -1.65 AVG per game
Kuper(-6.3) -6.3/6= - 1.05 AVG per game
royal(-6.5) -6.5/6 = -1.08 AVG per game
Decker(-4.5) -4.5/6= -0.75 AVG per game
Thomas(+3.2) 3.2/6= +.53 AVG per game
Mcghaee(+14.7) 14.7/6= +2.45 AVG per game

these grades take into account your job in the run game/pass game and penalties

so as you can see over the last six games only 3 players in the sample above were positive and had positive grades over a 6 game avg.


then people want to know why im upset with WR's and the OL, and The TE's are just as bad. Mcghaee is the numebr 1 threat on offense period!!! and his avg grade over his last six games is +2.4 which is excellent

Elevation inc
01-04-2012, 03:13 PM
I like their site but Im torn between them, football outsiders and cold hard football facts



footall outsiders is good but they have a weaker process for grading film, they dont get coaches film like PFF.....I had them for 2 years and switched to PFF the last 2 years and im sold.....Pff is the number 1 site coaches and players go to for outside grading during the season.....fans here and other boards knock it cause alot of times it doesnt mesh with highlights or being the 4th ranked rush team in the fans eyes, but they are legit and backed by coaches and players.....you dont have faith chat with the guys they will let ya know whats up....they are probally the most unbiased i have seen as well....they are nice to players when the ydeserve it and nasty when they dont.....

they were not nice about tebows game last week for instance but had good things to say after the NE game for example.....

Joel
01-04-2012, 11:35 PM
I like their site but Im torn between them, football outsiders and cold hard football facts
To follow another tangent, I think I'd go with FO from among those two, because it's almost literally founded on The Hidden Game of Football. I can't say enough good things about that book, which probably taught me more about football than everything else I've seen combined. A generation later it's STILL loaded with relevant insightful observations completely lost on 95% of fans--and an alarming number of pro coaches! Prior to that book few but coaches could name their teams offensive linemen, (or any of their guards,) but that and the '92-'95 Cowboys made the offensive tackle a star (most people still couldn't care less about guards.) To quote,

Rookies start at running back, at receiver, even at quarterback. Very few start at guard.

Which brings up a weird footnote of terminology. Runners and passers and catchers are always referred to as playing the "skill positions." Linemen, of course, are "unskilled." The idea seems to be that you need an apprenticeship, six sponsors, and a union card before you're allowed to touch the football, but any brainless lummox can shove Rosey Taylor around for an afternoon. It sounds as if you could make an offensive line by counting off the first five winos in an alley. Odd. Have you ever noticed how many NFL head coachese used to be offensive linemen?

TCHFF seems OK, but I still don't like them claiming the QB Rating System I've been using for at least 5 years (I even use the same abbreviation) when it's been around at least since this 1995 article by Michael Neft:
http://www.profootballresearchers.org/Coffin_Corner/15-01-506.pdf

In light of the importance Broncos Forums gives to copyright issues it was a bit ironic to see a Sports Illustrated article last year where TCHFF took credit for a QB Rating System I presented on this site at least three years ago. :tongue: In the wake of that I discovered Neft did it first, and you may note he uses (and credits) values closer to THGoFs than the Leagues. Personally, I think THGoF underrates the value of TDs (as does Neft, though he still underrates them too much, IMHO; I'd call it 7X1 expected points worth of yards, which is pretty darned close to the 80 used by the League) but that's not the point.

The POINT is, given a choice between a site that claims work previously done by two other people (that I know of; I did email them Nefts article after their write up in SI; no response so far) and one that gushes nearly as much as I do over what Wikipedia calls "the first systematic statistical approach to analyzing American football in a book... still considered the seminal work on the topic" I'll take the latter every day of the week and twice on Super Bowl Sunday. ;) I have more confidence in folks who do their own homework.

Returning to topic, Elevation Inc. already well expressed my oft stated view: Clady's a former Pro Bowler who's been gimpy all year, and Franklin a rook, so they get a pass (for now....) Kuper's our best pass blocking G, though a (relatively) smaller zone blocker weak with power running (might be better with bruisers at C and LG.) Beadles and Walton have started two full seasons but are still awful run AND pass blockers; time for Plan B.

tomjonesrocks
01-04-2012, 11:45 PM
I liked Harris more than most here it seems so I like this. Though due to injuries it would have been the wrong move in hindsight, I had hoped Harris would have come back (and therefore Franklin, a player I'm not sold on at ALL, would not have been drafted).

Hope he's healthy.

Joel
01-10-2012, 03:53 PM
OK, so, um, like, now what? It's like our other starting linemen said, "Oh, crap, they re-signed Harris; I better play better so I don't get benched!" Anyone have Nate Webster and Dre Blys numbers...? :tongue: