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MHCBill
02-18-2009, 04:40 PM
I understand that typically in a 3-4 your linebackers are more in the 240-260lb range. Makes sense since there is one less defensive lineman.

However, my question... the 3-4 is predicated on elaborate blitz schemes to help create pressure on the QB. Which linebackers typically blitz and is it important to have two inside linebackers that blitz, or only one?

I know the OLB'ers are certainly players you want to be able to rush the passer, but if D.J. is on the inside (blitzing hasn't been his strength) would the other inside linebacker be more apt to blitz?

I'd love to have Maualuga inside with D.J. At 260lbs Rey can bring it from the inside, and the little I've seen and read he is a decent blitzer.

TXBRONC
02-18-2009, 04:58 PM
In my limited understanding of the 3-4, its not necessarily that there is premise of elaborate blitz schemes, it's that defensive coordinators can disguise where the rush will come from.

Ziggy
02-18-2009, 05:58 PM
DJ will probably be more of a cover ILB. Maualuga would be a perfect compliment to DJ's skills. He can lay the wood, play more aggressively against the run, and blitz on the inside when called for.

BigAL56
02-18-2009, 07:53 PM
Yea. The big position at linebacker in my opinion is the rushing OLB that is almost like a stand-up end (ie: Shawn Merriman.) You need a beast on that outside. I think Cushing from SC is going to be great at that. He has experience at S, DE, and OLB. And he was good at all. So he can rush and cover. But yes, I think Rey would be a great compliment to DJ, but one of the more important backer positions is that rushing big outside backer. (I heard Dumerville and Moss are moving there)

Superchop 7
02-18-2009, 08:11 PM
The San Francisco 49ers switched to a 3-4 under coach Mike Nolan, but in 2001 the team drafted Jamie Winborn specifically to keep pace with the Rams' fleet offensive personnel. The league lists Winborn at 242 pounds, but he was closer to 220 back then.


"At times he was 218, 215, 212 pounds," said former 49ers defensive coordinator Jim Mora, now the secondary coach with the Seattle Seahawks. "But we had to do that for the speed, to match up with Marshall Faulk."

NameUsedBefore
02-18-2009, 08:16 PM
In my limited understanding of the 3-4, its not necessarily that there is premise of elaborate blitz schemes, it's that defensive coordinators can disguise where the rush will come from.

This.

There's a lot of versatility to the 3-4 that includes anything up to sending all four linebackers, to fake-blitzing them, pulling back, and bringing a lineman too. I've also seen teams bring back a lineman and then throw a linebacker which confuses QBs a lot (because the initial read shows linebacker in coverage and lineman rushing when it is the opposite; making throws off of "intuition" quickly become interceptions).

SmilinAssasSin27
02-18-2009, 08:40 PM
I think the pass rushing OLB is the important guy of the LBs, but the most important thing is the strength/girth of the 3 up front. I think the focus should be there first and foremost. W/o some pigs to hold their on, it doesn't matter who we send at the QB.

MHCBill
02-19-2009, 09:02 AM
Understood SA, but my question still goes back to ILBers... do they rush the passer much out of the 3-4 or is that strictly left to the OLBers? Again, if so, DJ would seem better off not blitzing from the inside (he hasn't shown to be a very good blitzer), but then we should find someone who would be. Rey Maualuga fits that nicely imo...

I'm not sold on Raji at #12... maybe I'm wrong, but I think Maualuga could come in and instantly be an impact player. We're going to have to hope that Elvis and Moss can convert from 4-3 DE's into 3-4 OLB'ers. Hope isn't a strategy.

I certainly see us drafting some prospect OLBers to be groomed for the future. They can learn about being professionals for a year and if Doom and Moss fail, we'll hopefully have some young studs waiting in the wings for their chance.

Ziggy
02-19-2009, 09:08 AM
I certainly see us drafting some prospect OLBers to be groomed for the future. They can learn about being professionals for a year and if Doom and Moss fail, we'll hopefully have some young studs waiting in the wings for their chance.


Good strategy Bill, but remember that we need at least one good example on the team for the young OLB'ers to follow. I'm not sure we have that right now. Hopefully it will be adressed either through the draft or FA. Coaching is great, but having an on-field example is important to development too. There's a lot of work to be done on this D.

broncosinindy
02-19-2009, 09:21 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say. That the Jack WOLB will do most of the rushing. and ocassionally you'll see the SILB crash down. The SOLB and WILB will do very little rushing although you'll see it from time to time. And Texas is right. This most likely wont be a Zone Blitz 3-4 or a 1 Gap.

But saying that i am still really new to the 3-4 myself

MHCBill
02-19-2009, 09:36 AM
Zone blitz???

1 Gap???

What are these? What are the pros and cons?

What will be switching to?

broncosinindy
02-19-2009, 09:50 AM
http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/265696 <---this link will explain it best i think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football_strategy#3-4

http://football.calsci.com/DefensiveLine3.html


It's really hard to explain. I am probably not the best to explain. hope those links help

broncosinindy
02-19-2009, 09:53 AM
am writing this piece in response to some of the announcers and writers out there that obviously wouldn't know the difference between a 3-4 defense and a punt formation. And there might be some fans out there that do not know when they are seeing a 3-4 or a 4-3 or what the differences are. To some it might seem redundant and to others informative.

As always, I write with out the benefit of a proofer, so please ignore typos, etc.


Unfortunately, I cannot (or don't know how to) include diagrams. If some of it might seem confusing in reading I suggest the following: diagram out a typical offensive formation or offensive line. Mark the gaps as A, B, C, D with the center-guard gap being the "A", the guard-tackle the "B", the tackle-tight end being the "C", outside of the tight end is the "D". To designate the "techniques" (where the players align in opposition to the offensive line), start with the center as "0", his outside shoulder is "1", the gap between center-guard is "2", the inside shoulder of the guard is "3", and so on. Adding a "0" to any of these numbers would indicate a LB lining up off the line of scrimmage. I hope that this helps. In addition, and excellent resource (with diagrams) can be found at http://www.footballoutsiders.com/strategy-minicamps/defensive-line-basics-mind-gap

THE HISTORY

The 3-4 might seem like a recent innovation. In fact, it has been around for a relatively long time. The system had been in use on the collegiate level since the 40's (Oklahoma is credited with its first use), but the defense looked vastly different as it was played very close to the line and every player was a brute. In 1970, in Superbowl IV, Hank Stramm wanted to utilize the strength of Curly Culp, a defensive lineman that was very strong and couldn't be blocked one-on-one. Stramm wanted Culp to tie up the Vikings All-Pro center Mick Tinglehoff and tie up additional guard support. He wanted to prevent the Vikings outstanding line from being able to pull and lead the great Vikings outside rushing attack. This worked out pretty well for the Chiefs as they dominated the heavily favored Vikings by holding them to just 67-yards rushing, 3 picks, and recovering 2 fumbles.

Early innovators of the defense on the professional level were Coaches Bum Phillips, Chuck Fairbanks and Hank Bullough. Today, the most familiar 3-4 with 2-gap line technique (we will get to that later) is referred to as the Fairbanks-Bullough.

In the 80's, the success of the 49ers and Cowboys with the 4-3 alignment saw most of the other teams adopt it as their base defense. However, the recent success of the New England Patriots, utilizing the 3-4, has given new life to the 3-4 in the professional football level. "It's not so much that teams are changing," said coach Bill Parcells, who won his first Super Bowl title in 1991 using the 3-4. "It's the people that have become decision makers have backgrounds in that defense and that is what they are implementing." Patriots coach Bill Belichick first learned the 3-4 while working under Parcells. Browns coach Romeo Crennel, New England's former defensive coordinator, was an assistant on the same Giants staff. Nick Saban also worked with Belichick ... and on down the coaching tree.

broncosinindy
02-19-2009, 09:54 AM
So why the switch to the 3-4?

Proponents suggest it's most effective in combating today's sophisticated passing attacks, with their multiple formations and intricate routes, because a fourth linebacker allows a defense the luxury of disguising its blitzes and coverages better.

If the offensive guards are responsible for blocking the inside linebackers, the center has the nose tackle and the offensive tackles are designated to block the defensive ends, who's got the two outside linebackers? And where are they?

The 3-4 also can morph into a 4-3 in the blink of an eye. The 3-4's outside linebacker can quickly come up to the line of scrimmage, drop his hand down, and voila, 4-3. Or he can stay on the edge as a decoy, pick up a running back in the flat or cover the tight end.

"I'm not saying it's better," Parcells said. "Here's what I think some of the advantages are: At any time you can drop eight people into coverage, and that complicates things for the quarterback. Not many four-man line teams have the ability to do that.

"The second thing is it's more 1-on-1 football. It forces the offense to block more straight and use less angles than a gap defense does. Sometimes that's more difficult for the offense to do."

In the 4-3 defense, you need two very large and athletic defensive tackles and two somewhat large and very athletic defensive ends. These guys are very hard to find. If you can't find a couple of good defensive ends, you're in for a long season of living and dying by the blitz.

In the 3-4 defense, you need one really large nose tackle. This NT has to be a real monster of a guy, 350 pounds or so, because his job is to take on the center and one of the guards simultaneously on every single play. Then you get two more defensive tackles at around 300 pounds each, and play them up against the offensive tackles. All three of the defensive tackles have what is called a gap responsibility. They are expected to hit the offensive linemen head on, and watch the play to make sure the running back doesn't come through on either side of them. Also, they're expected to hold their block so that the offensive linemen can't get out and block a linebacker.

In the 3-4 system, the linebackers are expected to make most of the plays. In the 3-4 system, the DTs play a more physical game as they are taking on one or two offensive linemen directly, play after play. Unlike the DTs in the 4-3, the DTs in the 3-4 are responsible for every single gap in the offensive line. Although the DTs get relatively few chances to make tackles or sack the quarterback, anything bad that happens is still ultimately their fault.

In the 3-4, you have four linebackers. Two of these guys are inside linebackers, and are expected to weigh roughly 240 pounds and be quite athletic. You also have two outside linebackers. These guys are sometimes called "tweeners," as they are in between the normal size of defensive ends and linebackers. These guys should weigh perhaps 255-265 pounds and also be quite athletic. Because these are linebackers, they tend to be faster than the heavier defensive ends. Their presence makes it much more difficult for the quarterback to roll out, as he will be rolling out directly into the path of one of these linebackers.

THE NUTS AND BOLTS

The 3-4 is composed of 3 down lineman, 4 linebackers and 4 defensive backs.

The defensive line positions are 2 defensive tackles and 1 noseguard. Typically, the noseguard (NG) plays head-up on the center (OC). This known as the "0" technique. The defensive tackles (DT) line up just off the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle (OT) in what is known as the the "3" technique. The primary function of the DL is to protect the LBs and play the run. Each defensive lineman is responsible for 1 or 2 gaps, depending on the scheme being used.

NG is the toughest position to fill. The NG is head-up on the OC and is responsible for defending both "A" gaps ("A" gap is the gap between the OC and OG's. "B" gap is between OG and OT. "C" gap is between OT and TE.) in the running game. He faces constant double-teams and takes a pounding. He must have size, mental and physical toughness, stamina, durability, lateral quickness, and good technique in terms of playing with leverage. If the NT cannot hold his ground, the defense is very vulnerable to runs between the tackles.

DTs tend to weigh around 290-310, and many are former 4-3 DT/DE "tweeners". They must be able to play the run well. The 3-4 DT is responsible for the "B" and "C" gaps in the running game and lines up in either the "3" or "5" technique (head-up on the OT) position. It's tough for a 3-4 DE to pick up as many sacks as a 4-3 DE, because a 3-4 DE doesn't have the freedom to go willy nilly upfield. He has to protect the LBs in order for the 3-4 to work.

The inside linebackers must be stout in run support. Because there are only 3 DL to match up against 5 OL, they must be able to stack and shed an unblocked offensive lineman in the running game. The left inside linebacker is called the “MIKE" linebacker (keep in mind that different teams might use different nomenclature for the different positions). He closely resembles his counterpart in the 4-3 except that he aligns himself in a “2" technique over the guard to the tight end side. The right inside linebacker, referred to as the “MAC" Linebacker also aligns himself in a “2" technique except he is on the “weak side” away from the tight end. In the 3-4’s most basic form both the “MIKE” and “MAC” linebackers have “A" and "B" gap responsibility, so like the middle linebacker of the 4-3 they must play the run from the inside out. However, in many of the 3-4 scheme’s seen today you see the “MAC" backer playing more of a weak side linebackers role and the “MIKE” can likewise find himself in the strong side role. The strong-side "MIKE", must have an attacking style of play to come up and meet a ball carrier at the line of scrimmage and be fast enough to string him out to the sideline. Though his first priority would be to stand the blocking back up in the hole yet plugging another running lane.The weak-side "MAC", is responsible for backside pursuit and must be disciplined enough not to overrun a play which could result in a big gain. Both players also must be able to blitz the QB and be able to drop into short zone depending on the defense called. Personnel wise the inside linebackers in the 3-4 are usually the prototypical linebacker that runs a 4.5 to 4.7 in the forty and stands 6’ to 6’4”tall at 240-255lbs. Most linebackers that play inside in a 3-4 scheme can usually translate well to the middle and weak side linebacking positions in a 4-3.

The two outside linebackers of the 3-4 defense have very similar jobs, especially in the very basic concept of the defense. An OLB in this defense is simply stated, the pass rusher. Both the “SAM” (strong-side) and “WILL” (weak-side) of the 3-4 will usually have “D gap” responsibility and will line up outside of the DE as a 5/7 technique (outside shoulder of either OT or TE). He is the guy who chases down the QB. His ideal frame is tall in the 6'4" range and normally anwhere from 240-260 lbs. Long arms are needed to disengage from NFL offensive tackles in the run game and also used in pass rush. They must be very fast as to be able to beat a Tackle to the corner in pass rush but also strong and athletic enough to utilize bull rush moves when needed. This player is also responsible for outside contain in the run game.

When Coach Hank Stram first introduced the 3-4 to the NFL it was four legitimate linebackers playing zone defense behind three down linemen. Later on teams started replacing one of those outside linebackers with a pure pass rusher and now the most prevalent version has both outside linebackers rushing the passer from a defense that more closely resembles a 5-2. On almost every play, 1 of the OLBs will rush the QB. The OLBs can play from a 2 or 3-point stance.

A cornerback (CB) in this defense has many different responsibilities from a traditional zone coverage CB. This player needs to be very fast with good ball skills as he plays alot of man coverage due to the schemes employed, dependant on what the front 7 does. Certain packages will also ask this player to play a variety of zones. The CB also be must tough enough to help support the outside run game. Normally, due to defensive formations, these players will line up on the WR with a 5 to 7 yard cushion as to not get **** the line scrimmage and surrender a deep pass play due to the extra safety playing in the box on run support, better known as cover 3. The roles of a CB vary greatly depending the defensive playcall and responsibility of the safety

broncosinindy
02-19-2009, 09:55 AM
Like a Safety (S) in any defense, they must be able to play centerfield to be successful. Due to the versatility of the defense, its common to only have one deep safety in the pass game, which is why referring back the CB's will line up with a cushion b/c there isnt alot of help there. These players make all the secondary calls and must be strong in second level run support. The free safety (FS) is responsible for reading the offensive plays and covering deep passes. Depending on the defensive call, he may also provide run support. He is positioned 10 to 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage, toward the center of the field. He provides the last line of defense against running backs and receivers who get past the linebackers and cornerbacks. He must be a quick and smart player, capable of making tackles efficiently as well as reading the play and alerting his team of game situations.

The strong safety (SS) is usually larger than the free safety and is positioned relatively close to the line of scrimmage. He is often an integral part of the run defense, but is also responsible for defending against a pass; especially against passes to the tight-ends.

SCHEMES

Without a doubt the 3-4 defense is the poster boy for flexibility. The strength of this defense rests in the number of quick footed athletes you can place on the field at the same time. It is so versatile of a defense that you could be in what appears to be a 5-2 defense on one play and then drop back in to a 4-2-5 zone on the next. Zone blitzing is especially effective from the 3-4 because you have so many players who can do similar things. You almost have endless combinations of the zone blitzes you can call. This is what has made Bill Belichick and Romeo Crennel so successful over the past; they were completely unpredictable and nobody had any idea what they are going to do next. They did so many different things every week that at times it seemed like they were drawing defensive calls out of a hat.

On the defensive line, the two most commonly used schemes are the "2" and "1" gap. In the "2" gap, the defensive lineman are responsible for the gap to either side of their technique. For instance, the NG, in a "0" technique (head up on the center) would have the job of covering either gap between the OC and the OG's. He accomplishes this by driving into the OC and then shedding him once he reads which gap the play will come to. At the very least, he hopes to tie up the OC and at least one of the OG's and keep them off the inside linebackers. Same applies for the DT's. This is why in a typical 3-4 defense, the ILB's will have the majority of the tackles. The "2" gap is usually know as the Fairbanks-Bullough, named after Chuck Fairbanks and Hank Bullough, two early innovators of the 3-4 as mentioned previously.

In the "1" gap, the defensive lineman will have a single gap responsibility. This system is not what people think of when they think of the 3-4, because the original 3-4 was/is strictly a 2-gap system. The Phillips is named after "Bum Phillips". Bum learned under Paul "Bear" Bryant at A&M and had coached high school football well enough to break into the college ranks (not a common route). He was a defensive coordinator in SD, then in HOU (that's the Oilers for you young folks). He later was a head coach in HOU and later for NO.

Phillips was an innovator who turned the 3-4 upside down. His system is one-gap. The DL penetrates, and is charged with constant harrasment of the QB. The LBs are typically fast, and at least one of them will blitz on any given play.

The reason for the near constant 1-LB blitz is to account for the fact that the outnumbered DL is also relatively undersized and only one-gapping. However, the adjustments work out well. The OL never knows who the blitzer will be, or where he will come from. The Phillips is more aggressive that the Bullough. The school of thought for the Phillips 3-4 is the need to pressure against the QB to stop the pass threat, and this is done by varying who the "fourth rusher" (who is really a blitzer) is. Add another blitzer in here and there, and the speedy/aggressive Phillips system is a threat to QBs, and attempts to get turnovers by slashing the time that a QB has to make decisions.

Another system is the Lebeau Zone Blitz and the theme for the Lebeau system is attack, attack, attack. The Zone Blitz is very nasty thing to deal with. In terms of player types, one can vary the NT type and even the DEs, but 1 gap speed DEs are much more common.

The zone blitz play (also know as a zone fire play) has been around for ages. Dick Lebeau took the play and turned it into a full system for Pittsburgh in the early 90's. He tried his hand at head coaching and being a coordinator elsewhere, but with little success. He doesn't seem to be a good manager, and isn't great at adopting to the existing systems of other teams. What Lebeau is know for it two things. His players love him (they play hard for him), and he is an excellent theoretician who develops elaborate plays with many twists.

The idea is that the different DLs will often drop back into coverage, while several linebackers (and even defensive backs) will blitz. The OL can't brace themselves, because if they do they will likely brace for the wrong assault. This is the one defense that prides itsself on turning the tables - the defensive line and the LBs hit the OL hard and often and try to wear down the other side.

CBs most often jam or jack the WRs , then either drop into zone or blitz. SAFs either zone or blitz (a safety blitz is called a "monster"), the LBs blitz most often, and sometimes zone, the DL either rushes or ends up in zone. It's a very fun defense to watch.

This defense tries to stop the run by penetrating the OL and disrupting the offense's backfield. They stop the pass by targetting the QB with heavy blitz packages. The zone blitz is very effective against screen passes, wreaks havoc against check offs by QBs (because the zones can't be anticipated, nor can the rush), and is the only major defensive scheme that is predicated on wearing down the OL instead of the OL wearing down the DL. For these reasons, the timing system used by many spread offenses can face more troubles here than in many other systems.

There is one glaring weakness. You drop a DL into a zone and the blitz doesn't hurry the QB and the QB has a quick-realease for an arm... well your defensive lineman isn't probably going to match a WR or TE going for a reception, is he?

Another scheme that makes the 3-4 so flexible is the Over/Under. In this alignment, the linebackers rotate can "rotate" or "slide" to the "Over" (towards the strong side) or the "Under" (towards the weak side). The rotating OLB moves up to the line of scrimmage and plays the "50" or "60" technique (adding the "0" means he is lined up off the line of scrimmage on the OT or TE outside shoulder). He can be in either a three-point or two-point stance. The two ILB's rotate to a "40" and "10" technique and the backside OLB now plays the "40" technique. While this alignment can easily be confused with a 4-3, it is definitely different. Either OLB can be in blitz, stunt or coverage. By moving the OLB to a "60" technique (slightly outside of the TE) it puts him in great position to either jam the TE, a speed rush, or coverage in the shallow flats. Also, the backside OLB can loop around the tackle for an outside rush or overload the weak side protection by blitzing the "A", "B", or "C" gap. The Over/Under also yields itself well to the zone blitz and makes it very easy to disguise coverages.

PASS COVERAGE

Coverages as defined by Wikipedia are:

* Cover Zero - Strict man-to-man coverage with no help from safeties (usually a blitz play with at least five men crossing the line of scrimmage)
* Cover One - Man-to-man coverage with at least one safety not assigned a player to cover who can help out on deep pass routes.
* Cover Two - Zone coverage with the safeties playing deep and covering half the field each.
* Cover Three - Zone coverage as above, but with extra help from a cornerback, so that each player covers one-third of a deep zone.
* Cover Four - As above, with the corners and safeties dropping into deep coverage, with each taking one-fourth of the width of the field. Also referred to as Quarters.

The effectiveness of a defense against short passes and the run generally drops as it goes from Cover Zero to Cover Four, while their effectiveness against deep passes increases.

These are basic secondary coverages that can be utilized by just about any defensive formation.

What makes the 3-4 defense so unique is that if the proper players man the defense, the extra LB allows more versatility in coverage. An extra athletic player in the lineup can be used to confuse QB's of where his coverage responsibilities will lie. For instance, in a 4-3 defense zone, its pretty common for the MLB to man the zone in the middle of the field. But in a 3-4 defense, either one of the ILB's could play middle zone, or for instance, a blitz could come off the edge and the extra LB could run to cover the blitzers area after the snap.

Its also common for this defense to utilize bracket coverage. Bracket coverages are prevalent in this defense due to an extra athlete on the field. Eight (4 LB's/4 secondary) versus losing the extra LB in a 4 man front. There are two types:

1. short/deep...also known as over/under where one player will attempt to take away any underneath patterns without fear of getting beat deep because he will have help. EX. When you see a LB lined up on a WR, he isnt playing him man to man, he's merely attempting to take away slant and curl patterns with help over top
2. inside/out...this coverage is when one player attempts to take away out patterns and sideline patterns while another player attempts to take away underneath inside patterns. EX. A CB on a slot WR will line up with outsided technique (outside shoulder of WR) only allowing him to release inside where a LB is waiting to take away slant patterns.

In addition, a popular coverage is the man-under zone. In this coverage scheme, you could have any combination of man to man match ups along with other players covering zones in the field. For instance, you could have your CB's locked-up in man coverage with safeties playing a two deep zone. This type of coverage allows defensive backs to play tight at the line of scrimmage to disrupt the receivers pattern. It also great for stopping the quick-out patterns and quick screens. The downside to this coverage is that you could have a LB covering a RB or TE in space. This is generally a mismatch.

broncosinindy
02-19-2009, 09:55 AM
The 3-4 lends itself into easily adapting to nickel or dime coverages. Replace a LB with a DB and you have a nickel. Replace another and you have a dime defense.

I would like for you to think that I simply had all of this knowledge floating around in my head. Unfortunately, that is not so. For research, I have consulted several sources on the web and books that I own. However, I would like to point out a couple of excellent sources for football information:
Football 101 (

broncosinindy
02-21-2009, 09:10 PM
Hey mods i would like to see if we can get a stick so i can find this during the season:)

Lonestar
02-21-2009, 11:30 PM
While I did not commit this to memory and it may have/probably was brought up the big think is it confuses not only the QB because they can;t read exactly who is or is not coming.. and even more so the OLINE because they have their head/eyes at crotch level and much of what they are seeing is blocked by the guy in front of them, they are more easliy confused on what is happening till it is.. Talking from an OLD ORG point of view..

In a 4-3 unless there is a blitz, which in itself is harder to hid.. you have 4 folks rushing the QB usually easy for 5 guys PLUS RB to block them..

3-4 it can be any or all of the front 7 coming and occasional you get a SS or CB coming also.. think of in this term chinese fire drill..

You just never know who is coming who is dropping into coverage..

Total ciaos for the defense why is take smarter hat your average bear to play it..

If someones weak spot is blitzing that can either be taught or the camouflage it and rush one of the other 10 players instead....

BTW DJ is a great athlete therefore it is either not be taught how to do it or he just does not want to do it..

horsepig
02-22-2009, 12:57 AM
Doesn't anyone remember the Orange Crush? Collier took a bunch of no-name guys like Joe Rizzo and Bob Swenson that wanted it! Throw in 2 or 3 other great players like Louie Wright, Rubin Carter, and, of course TJ & Gradishar, mix in some more unknowns like Simon Fletcher-Vwalla! A great defense due to great coaching and being able to utilize the talent you have available.

One thing everyone seems to be ignoring here is that you MUST have great safeties for a 34 to work. Quit worrying so much about LB weight and look for guys like TJ, ie, playmakers. You absolutely must have that guy in the middle though, but I seem to recall a guy named Karl Mecklenberg that came out of nowhere and could be effectively used in a 34.

The 34 is very adaptable, especially to very athletic types, who are all over the place, as opposed to people like Haynesworth or Ray Lewis who are pretty damn rare.

BTW, does Woodyard kind of remind anybody of TJ?

horsepig
02-22-2009, 01:02 AM
Once again I find myself agreeing with Wiz. I keep bringing up TJ, DJ could not carry TJ's jock. DJ probably has more physical talent but, the comparisons stop right there.

Lonestar
02-22-2009, 05:12 AM
Once again I find myself agreeing with Wiz. I keep bringing up TJ, DJ could not carry TJ's jock. DJ probably has more physical talent but, the comparisons stop right there.

There was a love of the game back then some played for money of course but most were out there having fun..

At least on Colliers group none of them were special as in individuals except perhaps Gradishar the rest were nobodies either cast offs or never would bes.. but they had desire..

Most kids these days are in it for the money only.. go to the highest bidder.. and few have a true love of the game..

I'll guess that larsen, maybe Barrett, woodyard do not fit into that mold.. Or Hillis for that matter.. the rest come across as money first guys..

I have a feeling that is all gonna change with Mc Kid and Xander around..

BTW it is either Jr or Mr Wiz to you.. :D