Broncos' free agents not drawing much interest

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/Denver/WWHI/2009/wwhi021409.htm

The Broncos have 11 players who will become free agents Feb. 27, but the team is in no hurry to re-sign any of them, we hear. Team insiders say there are no high-priority players in the bunch, and it’s conceivable that none of them will be back with the team for the 2009 season. The soon-to-be free agents include mostly past-their-prime veterans and a few younger players who have had mostly nondescript careers. A few of them, including RB Michael Pittman and MLB Nate Webster, could end up back with the Broncos on short-term, low-risk deals late in the spring if no other team shows any interest and Denver still has some spending money left over. Head coach Josh McDaniels’ club will be well below the cap this offseason, and sources say they expect the team to go after at least one high-priced free agent.

[Northman]

Shocker there. lol

[Slick]

I hope like hell we don't hang on to Webster. Pittman, sure if he's healthy.

I'm not surprised that other teams don't want our trash.

[Nature Boy]

Well, this is what happens when a football team is rebuilding. Mikey never rebuilt, he always had his eyes on the prize every year even though the results haven't played out too good the last few seasons.

I don't have that eagerness to see how much better the 2009 team will be. More like I'm eager to see what McDanials offense will look like and if we'll even be a competitive team in the rebuilding stage.

.

[WARHORSE]

Josh McDaniels will be bringing in a new breed I hope.

Nothing against those players, but I sure hope they arent with us again next year.

[WARHORSE]

I wouldnt mind Pittman if hes like.........fourth string.

But I dont recall him being an impact special teams player, so..................lets put one and one together..........

[Slick]

Well, this is what happens when a football team is rebuilding. Mikey never rebuilt, he always had his eyes on the prize every year even though the results haven't played out too good the last few seasons.

I don't have that eagerness to see how much better the 2009 team will be. More like I'm eager to see what McDanials offense will look like and if we'll even be a competitive team in the rebuilding stage.

.

I think it's funny that people bought in to the "eye on the prize every year" speech that we heard every offseason.

Not saying you in particular Nature, but some of us fans did exactly that. We are far from a few good draft picks away from being a contender IMO.

I don't see the offense regressing, and the defense has only one way to go at this point. I'm optimistic about next season, but I am also realist.

[Slick]

I wouldnt mind Pittman if hes like.........fourth string.

But I dont recall him being an impact special teams player, so..................lets put one and one together..........

he did score touchdowns in he redzome when healthy War, that's my MO for keeping him.

[honz]

he did score touchdowns in he redzome when healthy War, that's my MO for keeping him.

I thought Hillis was a much more effective short yardage back though. Hillis ran through people and ran people over...Pittman just ran in to people. He didn't really break tackles.

[Slick]

I thought Hillis was a much more effective short yardage back though. Hillis ran through people and ran people over...Pittman just ran in to people. He didn't really break tackles.

He scored, bottom line, and kept Cutler from throwing untimely interceptions, that was the point I was trying to make.

Of course Hillis is better, I agree.

[broncohead]

I think Webster is a really good player we should keep him.






























Hahahaha couldn't hold it anymore.

[yardog]

I think Webster is a really good player we should keep him.


:tsk:



























Hahahaha couldn't hold it anymore.

Not even funny but it did wake me up a little. :coffee:

[Lonestar]

AFC West

Season-in-review team reports


Feb. 12, 2009


Updated at 12:55 a.m. EST Friday, Feb. 13

Denver
Overview: The Broncos choked away a playoff berth, becoming the first team in league history not to win their division after leading it by three games with three weeks left. Denver lost to the Chargers, who were 4-8 at one point, in the season finale, and head coach Mike Shanahan was fired days later. Former Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels was hired to succeed Shanahan, and Mike Nolan was brought aboard as defensive coordinator.

2008 results


Date Opponent Spread Result

09/08/08 at Oakland -3 41-14

09/14/08 San Diego -1 39-38

09/21/08 New Orleans -5½ 34-32

09/28/08 at Kansas C -9 19-33

10/05/08 Tampa Bay -4 16-13

10/12/08 Jacksonville -3½ 17-24

10/20/08 at N England +3 7-41

BYE WEEK -12

11/02/08 Miami -4 17-26

11/06/08 at Cleveland +3 34-30

11/16/08 at Atlanta +6½ 24-20

11/23/08 Oakland -8 10-31

11/30/08 at NY Jets +8 34-17

12/07/08 Kansas City -9 24-17

12/14/08 at Carolina +7½ 10-30

12/21/08 Buffalo -6½ 23-30

12/28/08 at San Diego +7 21-52



Team MVP: QB Jay Cutler didn’t have a strong finish to the year, but he wasn’t alone in that regard. When injuries sent seven different Broncos running backs to injured reserve and placed much of the offensive burden on Cutler and the passing game, he handled a difficult situation pretty well. Denver finished with the league’s third-ranked passing game, and Cutler’s 4,526 yards were the third-most in the NFL.
Biggest surprise: No one saw owner Pat Bowlen’s decision to fire Shanahan coming, not even Shanahan himself. After 14 years and two Super Bowl wins, Bowlen made a bold move in letting go of a sure Hall of Famer and someone he had a very close relationship with. Some joked in recent years that Shanahan had a lifetime appointment, and the fact that he didn’t leave Denver of his own accord stunned league observers.

Biggest disappointment: The Broncos had fought through a bevy of injuries to get to 8-5, and with the Chargers at 5-8, it looked as if Denver was a playoff lock. For it to blow that lead was an embarrassment and had to affect Bowlen’s decision to fire Shanahan. The Broncos were blown out in two of their three losses to end the year, getting walloped 30-10 by the Panthers and being crushed 52-21 by the Chargers in the de facto AFC West title game.

Offseason outlook: Rebuilding one of the league’s worst defenses over the past two seasons will be the top task for McDaniels, Nolan and newly appointed GM Brian Xanders. The Broncos are transitioning from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense and will need to make major personnel changes to match the needs of the scheme. Finding a nose tackle, defensive end and two new starting safeties are top priorities.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Features/NFL+Features/2009/tmafcwest.htm

[omac]

Our free agents not drawing much interest ... yet we cut Aldridge, and 2 teams had waiver claims for him. Ack. :D

I sure hope we don't get a lot of waiver claims for the next series of players we cut, if that means we could've gotten even a little something for them.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Not necessarily, OMAC. But yeah, I hear what you're saying. Hopefully we have a few turds we can unload on someone for some pick compensation!

[WARHORSE]

I think it's funny that people bought in to the "eye on the prize every year" speech that we heard every offseason.

Not saying you in particular Nature, but some of us fans did exactly that. We are far from a few good draft picks away from being a contender IMO.

I don't see the offense regressing, and the defense has only one way to go at this point. I'm optimistic about next season, but I am also realist.


Paste that thinking to your bulletin board.


Who thought the Rams would win the superbowl after a 4-12 season?

And you think we cant after an 8-8 season with a team on the upswing?


If our offense moves forward at all this season, what will that translate to?

If our defense can get the guys simply to stop the run only, what will that translate to?



There aint no rebuilding in Denver.

I love Bowlen.:coffee:



Its tough livin life as a pessimist.:confused:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't think we will be legit in 2009. Playoffs, maybe...then anything can happen. But watch out in 2010.

[fcspikeit]

Can't say that I'm surprised.. How about Slowic, is anyone picked him up yet? He might land a job as a DB coach. I don't know though, it seems a little risky. That's how he weaseled his way to DC in the past :D..

I really hope someone signs Webster.. I don't want him back. He has a way of getting on the field. I would rather not take the chance of seeing him start for the Orange and Blue again :coffee:

[omac]

Not necessarily, OMAC. But yeah, I hear what you're saying. Hopefully we have a few turds we can unload on someone for some pick compensation!

Even getting a future 7th round pick is getting something, instead of letting them go for nothing. And who knows, what if we actually have some good talent on defense that was never coached properly to their potential? :confused:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I don't think we would have gotten any pick compensation for a player like Alridge. He hadn't proved anything and only two teams put waiver claims on him. Waiver claims are obviously indicative of interest, and his was very low. You can't have a bidding war over a player only two teams are moderately interested in. Furthermore, it's hard to get pick compensation out of players who have done nothing in the league. Well, we've had some surprise instances; but it's kind of wishful thinking to assume we could have gotten anything for little A. IMHO.

[broncosinindy]

Paste that thinking to your bulletin board.


Who thought the Rams would win the superbowl after a 4-12 season?

And you think we cant after an 8-8 season with a team on the upswing?


If our offense moves forward at all this season, what will that translate to?

If our defense can get the guys simply to stop the run only, what will that translate to?



There aint no rebuilding in Denver.

I love Bowlen.:coffee:



Its tough livin life as a pessimist.:confused:
Stopping the run and getting TO's. i think is probably the biggest thing that could change this D. I think it should be alright playing our guys up on the recievers. having a Safety over bly and getting to the QB

[broncosinindy]

I don't think we would have gotten any pick compensation for a player like Alridge. He hadn't proved anything and only two teams put waiver claims on him. Waiver claims are obviously indicative of interest, and his was very low. You can't have a bidding war over a player only two teams are moderately interested in. Furthermore, it's hard to get pick compensation out of players who have done nothing in the league. Well, we've had some surprise instances; but it's kind of wishful thinking to assume we could have gotten anything for little A. IMHO.

I could be wrong but i think Loss vs Gain in the offseason is a key to compensation.

Aldrige would not gained us anything in trade. JMO this was not directed at you cicero

[Lonestar]

No one is in a trade mode at this time.. when players are going to be cut. there will be a lot of players to pick over..

If memory serves correct if someone signs one of our un restricted FA then there is some potential for getting additional draft choices.. for 2010.. but frankly folks the cupboard is so bare with talent on this defense I do not see that happening either..

[BRONCOSFREAK765]

I'm sorry but Hillis had some good performances against some questionable defenses. and hasn't proved much to me. also keep in mind he couldn't do anything against cleveland.....rushed for a 3 yd average against one of the worst defenses in the league.

[Medford Bronco]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/Denver/WWHI/2009/wwhi021409.htm

The Broncos have 11 players who will become free agents Feb. 27, but the team is in no hurry to re-sign any of them, we hear. Team insiders say there are no high-priority players in the bunch, and it’s conceivable that none of them will be back with the team for the 2009 season. The soon-to-be free agents include mostly past-their-prime veterans and a few younger players who have had mostly nondescript careers. A few of them, including RB Michael Pittman and MLB Nate Webster, could end up back with the Broncos on short-term, low-risk deals late in the spring if no other team shows any interest and Denver still has some spending money left over. Head coach Josh McDaniels’ club will be well below the cap this offseason, and sources say they expect the team to go after at least one high-priced free agent.


Please no Nate Webster. I would not mind Pittman at all, He was good
when healthy.

[Medford Bronco]

Can't say that I'm surprised.. How about Slowic, is anyone picked him up yet? He might land a job as a DB coach. I don't know though, it seems a little risky. That's how he weaseled his way to DC in the past :D..

I really hope someone signs Webster.. I don't want him back. He has a way of getting on the field. I would rather not take the chance of seeing him start for the Orange and Blue again :coffee:

Maybe some Jr college can get Slowbrain, but wait they want someon who is qualified :lol:

[honz]

I'm sorry but Hillis had some good performances against some questionable defenses. and hasn't proved much to me. also keep in mind he couldn't do anything against cleveland.....rushed for a 3 yd average against one of the worst defenses in the league.

He also hadn't played or practiced at RB at all for the Broncos and only got flung in there because we lost our last RB's. Not to mention he had the key play of the game where he picked up that 4th and 1 on pure second effort after the play got stuffed at the line. Anyone that can hit the hole like Hillis did and break tackles like he did can play RB in this league.

[CoachChaz]

He also hadn't played or practiced at RB at all for the Broncos and only got flung in there because we lost our last RB's. Not to mention he had the key play of the game where he picked up that 4th and 1 on pure second effort after the play got stuffed at the line. Anyone that can hit the hole like Hillis did and break tackles like he did can play RB in this league.

I'm still not going to rely on a guy that had 1.5 good games and a key 1 yard run here and there.

[JKcatch724]

I'm still not going to rely on a guy that had 1.5 good games and a key 1 yard run here and there.

I'd rely on him over a guy that's played 1.5 professional quarters, a guy who's old enough to be my dad, a guy that worked at a cell phone kiosk a year ago, or... Selvin Young. meh. I'll take Peyton out of the bunch.

[BRONCOSFREAK765]

paymah is the only one i would like to see resigned and perhaps pears.

[CoachChaz]

I'd rely on him over a guy that's played 1.5 professional quarters, a guy who's old enough to be my dad, a guy that worked at a cell phone kiosk a year ago, or... Selvin Young. meh. I'll take Peyton out of the bunch.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but hasnt Bell done a little more for the Broncos than work at a cell phone store? All he's ever done is produce. Work him and Hillis together and I'm happy, but I just dont see Hillis as a long term answer at HB.

[fcspikeit]

No one is in a trade mode at this time.. when players are going to be cut. there will be a lot of players to pick over..

If memory serves correct if someone signs one of our un restricted FA then there is some potential for getting additional draft choices.. for 2010.. but frankly folks the cupboard is so bare with talent on this defense I do not see that happening either..

I agree Jr, no one is wanting to trade right now, so my question is, why cut him? It's not like it freed up much cap room and it's not like we needed the room..

If we had held on to him maybe we could have got something for him when teams are in trade mode. A 7th round pick would have been better then nothing..

It seems now is the time to cut guys who have no chance of making this team, that and they don't have value in the future to be traded off. I guess the FO seen Aldridge as one of those guys.. Not a huge lose but I would have liked to at least give him a chance to return kicks for us..

[Lonestar]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but hasnt Bell done a little more for the Broncos than work at a cell phone store? All he's ever done is produce. Work him and Hillis together and I'm happy, but I just dont see Hillis as a long term answer at HB.

I see him as a better option than tater the wiffer..

Some are saying Hillis would be better saved to be a FB other wise his playing days are numbered..

Does anyone think taking on a DE or LB taht out weighs him by 20-90 pounds, play after play blocking. Is any less hard on the body as carrying the ball and doing the same thing or better yet punishing the DB that he out weighs by 20-70 pounds..

If he is going to go down to injury after 4 years one way or the other give me him as a Running back gaining 800-1500 a year.. depending on how many carries he gets..

Which FWIW will no doubt be less carries per game under Mc Kid than mikey..

[Lonestar]

I agree Jr, no one is wanting to trade right now, so my question is, why cut him? It's not like it freed up much cap room and it's not like we needed the room..

If we had held on to him maybe we could have got something for him when teams are in trade mode. A 7th round pick would have been better then nothing..

It seems now is the time to cut guys who have no chance of making this team, that and they don't have value in the future to be traded off. I guess the FO seen Aldridge as one of those guys.. Not a huge lose but I would have liked to at least give him a chance to return kicks for us..

My guess is one of a couple of things:


He does not fit into the mold of a "Pat" RB.
He is hurt and they do not want to deal with it.
He asked to be released to be picked up by another team.
He may have had a contract that called for money to be due.. Roster bonus or monthly check..
They knew there was not chance in trading him..
They floated his name an no one was interested in him..


Maybe all of the above..

[JKcatch724]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but hasnt Bell done a little more for the Broncos than work at a cell phone store? All he's ever done is produce. Work him and Hillis together and I'm happy, but I just dont see Hillis as a long term answer at HB.

Given the current group of RBs, I wouldn't mind Bell and Hillis together. I've been a fan of Tater's since we drafted him... but he's not the answer. Is Hillis? I dunno, we'll have to see. But he's got the best upside IMO. I won't be surprised if we take a RB in the first three rounds.

[TXBRONC]

Given the current group of RBs, I wouldn't mind Bell and Hillis together. I've been a fan of Tater's since we drafted him... but he's not the answer. Is Hillis? I dunno, we'll have to see. But he's got the best upside IMO. I won't be surprised if we take a RB in the first three rounds.

Tatum isn't an every down back, but if he's in shape I think it's possible for him to be a solid contributor.

[Ziggy]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but hasnt Bell done a little more for the Broncos than work at a cell phone store? All he's ever done is produce. Work him and Hillis together and I'm happy, but I just dont see Hillis as a long term answer at HB.


Even though I always disliked Bell's running style, he earned some respect from me with the way he came in off the street and played last season. I think he deserves a shot to make this team again.

[broncosinindy]

Tatum isn't an every down back, but if he's in shape I think it's possible for him to be a solid contributor.

He was a awesome change of pace back when i think he ran with Ruben or mike anderson i cant recall..

[TXBRONC]

He was a awesome change of pace back when i think he ran with Ruben or mike anderson i cant recall..

Bell ran well as the change of pace back behind both Droughns and Anderson.
It was running in tandem with Anderson that Bell nearly cleared 1,000 yards.

[broncosinindy]

I think its all about limitiing his touches. hes not a grinder. man its been a minute but how well does he catch the ball out of the backfield. something that i think MCD back would need to be good at. and pass protection. if i rmemeber right he was solid there.. damn i hate old age muahaha

[honz]

I'm still not going to rely on a guy that had 1.5 good games and a key 1 yard run here and there.
Granted, he doesn't have a large sample size to pull on, but the talent is there. He may not be a Pro Bowler or have great speed for a RB, but there is no doubt in my mind that he can be the lone power back as a part of a RB tandem. He hits the hole hard, runs people over, and breaks tackles...that's not gonna change. On top of all that, he has shown the ability to be a legit receiving threat out of the backfield. Watching him last season, I thought it was pretty obvious that he has the ability to be an effective RB in this league. He wasn't just benefiting from good blocking in our ZBS...he was getting tough yards when there were no yards to be had. That's the sign of a quality RB.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

People didn't like his fumbling when he was here. If he stops dropping the rock, I'd love to keep him around.

[broncofaninfla]

No way Webster resigns with us. I doubt he signs with anybody else who has access to game film, certainly none of teh teams that have played us during the past two seasons.

[Dreadnought]

No way Webster resigns with us. I doubt he signs with anybody else who has access to game film, certainly none of teh teams that have played us during the past two seasons.

Amen to that. I would think if he wants a future playing football it needs to be in Canada or an Arena League. He is not NFL caliber. By a lot.

[eessydo]

No way Webster resigns with us. I doubt he signs with anybody else who has access to game film, certainly none of teh teams that have played us during the past two seasons.

Right, like no one would sign Javon Walker to a BIG deal....the Raiders will pick him up. Al Davis is a moron.

[CoachChaz]

People didn't like his fumbling when he was here. If he stops dropping the rock, I'd love to keep him around.

Production is the answer. Quick question...which of the two players would you rather have on your roster based on risk/reward.

Player A: 54 career games, 4.9 YPC, 7 fumbles-5 lost

Player B: 30 career games, 5.2 YPC, 13 fumbles-7 lost

[NightTrainLayne]

Production is the answer. Quick question...which of the two players would you rather have on your roster based on risk/reward.

Player A: 54 career games, 4.9 YPC, 7 fumbles-5 lost

Player B: 30 career games, 5.2 YPC, 13 fumbles-7 lost

This must be a trick question. . . :laugh:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I want Quentin Griffin.

[CoachChaz]

This must be a trick question. . . :laugh:

Actually it's a quite simple question. I'm curious which of these 2 NFL backs the average person would choose based on their production.

[Ziggy]

Production is the answer. Quick question...which of the two players would you rather have on your roster based on risk/reward.

Player A: 54 career games, 4.9 YPC, 7 fumbles-5 lost

Player B: 30 career games, 5.2 YPC, 13 fumbles-7 lost

Depends. Are both playing behind the same offensive line? While you gave us a number of games, how many carries do they each have? Is one a 32 year old back with only a year or 2 left and the other a 25 year old that may be coming into his prime? Too little info there for a choice based on risk/reward.

[CoachChaz]

Both players play behind good lines. Both players under 28 years old.

Player A: 54 games, 11 carries per game, 4.9 YPC, 14 receptions per year, 7 fumbles-5 lost

Player B: 30 games, 20 carries per game, 5.2 YPC, 20 receptions per year, 13 fumbles-7 lost

[Fan in Exile]

Both players play behind good lines. Both players under 28 years old.

Player A: 54 games, 11 carries per game, 4.9 YPC, 14 receptions per year, 7 fumbles-5 lost

Player B: 30 games, 20 carries per game, 5.2 YPC, 20 receptions per year, 13 fumbles-7 lost

Okay, I'll bite. I would go with player B. The higher yards per carry and the presumably bigger threat in the passing game as well as the higher workload make up for the higher number of fumble, IMO. Player B has .022 fumbles per carry and player A has .012. I didn't figure the fumbles happened after a reception, although that could change things.

However there are still other concerns like injury history as well character issues.

I forgot to mention that I don't like averages for this. I would like to know if player B is a boom or but type player or not. If player B gets all his stats on long plays but gets stuffed a lot, forget it, then I would take player A. Or vice versa. If they are both boom or bust then I would go with player B again, but still look for a guy who doesn't get stuffed.

[CoachChaz]

Okay, I'll bite. I would go with player B. The higher yards per carry and the presumably bigger threat in the passing game as well as the higher workload make up for the higher number of fumble, IMO. Player B has .022 fumbles per carry and player A has .012. I didn't figure the fumbles happened after a reception, although that could change things.

However there are still other concerns like injury history as well character issues.

I forgot to mention that I don't like averages for this. I would like to know if player B is a boom or but type player or not. If player B gets all his stats on long plays but gets stuffed a lot, forget it, then I would take player A. Or vice versa. If they are both boom or bust then I would go with player B again, but still look for a guy who doesn't get stuffed.

Both are lighter backs with speed. Player B has a few issues staying on the field and player A's attempt numbers are low due to under-utilization over 2 seasons.

[Ziggy]

I'll take player A for 100 Alex. He fumbles once every 84 carries, as compared to player B that fumbles once every 46 carries. Turnovers are a huge factor in winning and losing a game.

[Fan in Exile]

Both are lighter backs with speed. Player B has a few issues staying on the field and player A's attempt numbers are low due to under-utilization over 2 seasons.

Lighter backs with speed doesn't really answer the boom or bust question. Some lighter backs with speed use that to make sure they don't get caught behind the LOS others only use their speed when they get beyond the LOS.

I still pick B however YPC tends to go down with more carries, because fatigue and wear and tear set in, so I wouldn't expect A to produce as much as B given more carries. I still think that although A fumbles less both of their numbers are low enough that I go with the more productive back.

I should also be clear that the other reason I'm going for B is because I was pretty sure that he was Adrian Peterson, and A was Tatum Bell. I just looked up their numbers and yep that's got to be it.

[CoachChaz]

Lighter backs with speed doesn't really answer the boom or bust question. Some lighter backs with speed use that to make sure they don't get caught behind the LOS others only use their speed when they get beyond the LOS.

I still pick B however YPC tends to go down with more carries, because fatigue and wear and tear set in, so I wouldn't expect A to produce as much as B given more carries. I still think that although A fumbles less both of their numbers are low enough that I go with the more productive back.

I should also be clear that the other reason I'm going for B is because I was pretty sure that he was Adrian Peterson, and A was Tatum Bell. I just looked up their numbers and yep that's got to be it.


So based on the name, you go with AP, but arguing his production with Tatum is legit. If Player B was John Doe, it would be a different situation.

And Tatum's carry numbers are only down because of limited use the past 2 seasons. otherwise, I think his production is up there with AP.

So why is it that AP gets a pass, but tatum doesnt?

[Ziggy]

What you failed to menion Coach, is that player B is putting those numbers up against 8 and 9 man fronts, while player A is on a team that defenses have to gameplan to stop the pass first. Huge difference, and really not comparable.

[CoachChaz]

What you failed to menion Coach, is that player B is putting those numbers up against 8 and 9 man fronts, while player A is on a team that defenses have to gameplan to stop the pass first. Huge difference, and really not comparable.

...I also forgot to mention that Player A will also be unwarrantedly hated regardless of anything he accomplishes and the 8 man fronts that Player B sees from Chicago, Green Bay and Detroit arent exactly something to brag about.

Either, just based on production, I dont think we can say that tatum is useless in this system. In fact, I think we'd be obliged to say he's far more than adequate.

[Ziggy]

...I also forgot to mention that Player A will also be unwarrantedly hated regardless of anything he accomplishes and the 8 man fronts that Player B sees from Chicago, Green Bay and Detroit arent exactly something to brag about.

Either, just based on production, I dont think we can say that tatum is useless in this system. In fact, I think we'd be obliged to say he's far more than adequate.

I'm not arguing with you Coach. It's just not a good comparison, because AP is all Minnesota has on offense. Any defense he plays against has stopping him as priority #1. That's what makes his numbers so impressive. What do you think Tatum's numbers would look like if defenses game planned to stop him first and foremost?

As I stated earlier in this thread, I was a Tatum hater myself, until he came back and ran hard this season without the benefit of a training camp. I'll be rooting for him this year.

[Fan in Exile]

So based on the name, you go with AP, but arguing his production with Tatum is legit. If Player B was John Doe, it would be a different situation.

And Tatum's carry numbers are only down because of limited use the past 2 seasons. otherwise, I think his production is up there with AP.

So why is it that AP gets a pass, but tatum doesnt?

No not based on the name I picked AP looking at his production. Better YPC and more of a receiving threat. It was only with the last post that I realized I didn't want to be the yahoo trying to argue that Tatum Bell is as good as AP.

Remember I specifically pointed out that I didn't think that player A would sustain his production with more carries because that tends to go down. That's something I believe because over the past couple of years that's what I've seen with Tatum and Young. They can't carry an offense the way AP has.

I also think that some people overate the significance of the difference in their fumbles. AP fumbles a lot because he's getting hit by the whole defense Tatum fumbles because that's what he does.

With that being said I do think there is a lot of irrational hatred of Tatum Bell among Bronco fans. I think he's a great 10-11 carry a game back and if used properly can be a great help to our team next year and deserves that shot. I don't however want him to be our featured back because I don't think that's what is best for our team.

[Lonestar]

tater does not fit the RB mold that NE has had for nigh on a decade.. almost all of NE backs have been 220+ and few have had speed..

Now if some how he develops into a I do not go down in a stiff breeze pounder then I think he may fit into Mc Kids past practices..

The midget was cut and I'd guess that unless tater and for that matter all of the backs show up 215 or more they may have a chance to stick but unlikely they will do much more than ST duty..

NE back for the most part are all good blockers, can catch the pass out of the backfield and can run inside the tackles..

something that tater has not done well in the past..

[CoachChaz]

No not based on the name I picked AP looking at his production. Better YPC and more of a receiving threat. It was only with the last post that I realized I didn't want to be the yahoo trying to argue that Tatum Bell is as good as AP.

Remember I specifically pointed out that I didn't think that player A would sustain his production with more carries because that tends to go down. That's something I believe because over the past couple of years that's what I've seen with Tatum and Young. They can't carry an offense the way AP has.

I also think that some people overate the significance of the difference in their fumbles. AP fumbles a lot because he's getting hit by the whole defense Tatum fumbles because that's what he does.

With that being said I do think there is a lot of irrational hatred of Tatum Bell among Bronco fans. I think he's a great 10-11 carry a game back and if used properly can be a great help to our team next year and deserves that shot. I don't however want him to be our featured back because I don't think that's what is best for our team.

I'm never going to say tatum is as good as AP, but he is more than adequate. He could be a 1000 yard runner in many systems.

As far as AP's fumbles...watch a few Minn games. AP sometimes seems to simply drop the ball. He's just one of those guys that has never mastered the art of holding the ball properly. In fact, I think they went into great detail about this when they played the Giants this year. His issues have every bit as much to do with him as they do with getting hit.

[CoachChaz]

tater does not fit the RB mold that NE has had for nigh on a decade.. almost all of NE backs have been 220+ and few have had speed..

Now if some how he develops into a I do not go down in a stiff breeze pounder then I think he may fit into Mc Kids past practices..

The midget was cut and I'd guess that unless tater and for that matter all of the backs show up 215 or more they may have a chance to stick but unlikely they will do much more than ST duty..

NE back for the most part are all good blockers, can catch the pass out of the backfield and can run inside the tackles..

something that tater has not done well in the past..

Sammy Morris - 220
Kevin Faulk - 202
Ben Green-Ellis - 215
Lawrence Maroney - 220

I wouldnt go so far as to say they've been using nothing but big backs the past few seasons.

That being said, I guess the basis of my argument is that I think with this line and McD's system, a combo of Tatum and Hillis would be just fine for this offense to succeed.

[Lonestar]

Sammy Morris - 220
Kevin Faulk - 202
Ben Green-Ellis - 215
Lawrence Maroney - 220

I wouldnt go so far as to say they've been using nothing but big backs the past few seasons.

That being said, I guess the basis of my argument is that I think with this line and McD's system, a combo of Tatum and Hillis would be just fine for this offense to succeed.


Faulk has primarily been used as a pass catcher out of the backfield except for last year when he ran for 507. prior to that he got 265, 123, 145, 255, 638, 271, 169, 570, 227

BTW 202 for someone 5'8" is pretty stocky

here is the current RB line up from NFL.COM

39 Maroney, Laurence RB RES 5'11" 220 2/5/1985 3 Minnesota
42 Green-Ellis, BenJarvus RB ACT 5'11" 215 7/2/1985 0 Mississippi
34 Morris, Sammy RB ACT 6'0" 220 3/23/1977 9 Texas Tech
33 Faulk, Kevin RB ACT 5'8" 202 6/5/1976 10 Louisiana State
32 Jordan, LaMont RB ACT 5'10" 230 11/11/1978 8 Maryland
44 Evans, Heath FB ACT 6'0" 250 12/30/1978 8 Auburn

http://www.nfl.com/teams/roster?d-447263-o=2&team=NE&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=persons.primary_Position.id.position_Id&d-447263-n=1

As you can see all of them except are 215 plus..

thus reasoning for my 215+, good blocker and pass catching comments..


here is our list
35 Young, Selvin RB RES 5'11" 215 10/1/1983 2 Texas
42 Torain, Ryan RB RES 6'1" 225 8/10/1986 0 Arizona State
38 Alridge, Anthony RB RES 5'9" 185 11/24/1984 0 Houston gone
21 Bell, Tatum RB ACT 5'11" 213 3/2/1981 5 Oklahoma State
30 Boyd, Cory RB ACT 6'1" 213 8/6/1985 0 South Carolina
23 Hall, Andre RB RES 5'10" 212 8/20/1982 2 South Florida
37 Haynes, Alex RB ACT 5'10" 223 2/13/1982 2 Central Florida
22 Hillis, Peyton RB RES 6'2" 250 1/21/1986 0 Arkansas
38 Pinnock, Andrew RB ACT 5'10" 250 3/12/1980 6 South Carolina
28 Pittman, Michael RB RES 6'0" 225 8/14/1975 11 Fresno State
31 Pope, P.J. RB RES 5'9" 205 2/26/1984 2 Bowling Green State gone
http://www.nfl.com/teams/roster?d-447263-o=2&team=DEN&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=persons.primary_Position.id.position_Id&d-447263-n=1

as you can see many of those will be gone by end of TC just from size alone if Mc Kid follows his past history of his teams ..

[CoachChaz]

I see your point, but I will say that I have little reason to believe those players were on the NE roster because of McD's input.

[Lonestar]

I see your point, but I will say that I have little reason to believe those players were on the NE roster because of McD's input.

perhaps he had nothing to do with who was on the team but offensively he saw what work and WHO produced..

Not even sure Belichick drafted Faulk or not would have been very close to the time he took over the team..

But we can't argue with the success they had in NE.. and if something is not broke why change it..

I see him doing much the same thing here with a shimdge of ZBS added to HIS playbook.. which does not need midgets to run the ball in.. that was mikeys hang up.. RBs between 190-210 and fast..

NE seems to have had 2-3 RB each year that get 700-900 yards mostly 220+ pounders that can all pass block and pass catch.. I do not see him going to far away from that in coming years..

[Ziggy]

Tatum Bell is a FA, so we'll find out soon enough if the Broncos think he is worth signing and bringing back to camp.

[oobehr]

Out of the crop of running backs we have I would go with Torain, Bell, and Hillis, then draft a 3rd or 4th rounder to compete for the job. Hillis will be an every down back, whether it is run blocking as a full back, pass blocking as a half back, recieving on screen passes, running through the tackles as a running back, or pounding out 1-2 yard 4th downs as a full back. Bell could be our Fred Taylor mixing up carries with hillis. Torain and the rookie we bring in could get their chances to see if they are worth a roster spot.

[WARHORSE]

NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN THE BRONCOS FREE AGENTS????




stunning.

[Lonestar]

Tatum Bell is a FA, so we'll find out soon enough if the Broncos think he is worth signing and bringing back to camp.

Right now I'd say he will get NO action in the market place and Maybe get a look see if they can't find someone better before training camp..

[WARHORSE]

Right now I'd say he will get NO action in the market place and Maybe get a look see if they can't find someone better before training camp..


I hope youre wrong though as I think personally that Tatum has made some real strides as a person. I genuinely enjoyed listening to his humility stemming from his circumstance last year.

I hope he finds a place, but I think his time as a Bronco is done.

[Lonestar]

I hope youre wrong though as I think personally that Tatum has made some real strides as a person. I genuinely enjoyed listening to his humility stemming from his circumstance last year.

I hope he finds a place, but I think his time as a Bronco is done.

I hope so also perhaps he is a changed man and I wish him the best. but Unless his game improves BIG time I think he is done here also.. In NE system it is not just being able to carry the ball it is blocking, pass blocking and pass catching.. not his real strong suits.. Plus he is marginally the right size for NE prototypical RB's..

[Dean]

I hope so also perhaps he is a changed man and I wish him the best. but Unless his game improves BIG time I think he is done here also.. In NE system it is not just being able to carry the ball it is blocking, pass blocking and pass catching.. not his real strong suits.. Plus he is marginally the right size for NE prototypical RB's..

Based upon what I saw once Tatum got more into playing shape, I would say that his game has already improved BIG time. He is not the lead back but he has more than enough talent to be a steady #2 back.

[topscribe]

Based upon what I saw once Tatum got more into playing shape, I would say that his game has already improved BIG time. He is not the lead back but he has more than enough talent to be a steady #2 back.

I was once one of Tater's biggest detractors, but I am now eager to see if he
can keep up the excellent running he displayed the last few games this last
year.

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