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Dortoh
02-12-2009, 06:33 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/12/more-shocking-moves-from-the-broncos/

In yet another jarring shakeup, the Denver Broncos have reshuffled their front office for the second time in less than a year.

Denver dismissed general manager Jim Goodman and his son Jeff Goodman, another Broncos personnel executive, and promoted Brian Xanders from assistant general manager to general manager, a league source said Thursday.

Last year the Broncos fired then general manager Ted Sundquist, and now they have shaken up their front office yet again to go along with the coaching shakeup.

Xanders joined the Broncos in May after spending 14 seasons with the Atlanta Falcons, where he worked as the Falcons’ director of football administration/player personnel analyst.

Xanders worked with the Falcons in a variety of capacities, including player personnel, coaching, salary cap management, information technology and business management. He was a member of Falcons’ coaching staff on their 1998 team that became the first in franchise history to earn a Super Bowl berth (XXXIII).

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 06:35 PM
Holy ****** shit.

shank
02-12-2009, 06:37 PM
**** that

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 06:37 PM
Had to come from Bowlen, right?

Dortoh
02-12-2009, 06:38 PM
I thought the Goodmans had been credited with our upswing in good drafts?

weird

frauschieze
02-12-2009, 06:38 PM
Wtf?

Northman
02-12-2009, 06:40 PM
Wow

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 06:40 PM
They were the reason behind the good drafts.

Hal? Hal?

Magnificent Seven
02-12-2009, 06:42 PM
Wow!!!!

Northman
02-12-2009, 06:42 PM
I went from pretty confident in our new direction with personnel to oh crap. I have a bad feeling here.

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 06:44 PM
I need someone to tell me what to think. Get G Money here stat.

gnomeflinger
02-12-2009, 06:44 PM
Oh, snap!

Rex
02-12-2009, 06:44 PM
yawn

Dortoh
02-12-2009, 06:45 PM
Well they did just release one of my underdog favorites Mustard. Someone had to pay :tsk:

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 06:46 PM
yawn

No, you don't, CSWIL. Don't belittle this news as some uppity know it all fan.

frauschieze
02-12-2009, 06:46 PM
I need someone to tell me what to think. Get G Money here stat.

Ask and ye shall receive.

Dortoh
02-12-2009, 06:46 PM
The timing is really strange

GEM
02-12-2009, 06:47 PM
WTF is going on in Dove Valley?

Here I was hoping to see Defense pink slips and get THIS instead?

:tsk:

NameUsedBefore
02-12-2009, 06:47 PM
What the hell.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 06:48 PM
They were the reason behind the good drafts.

Hal? Hal?

but should get just as much "credit" for failing to improve the D.

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 06:48 PM
I would have liked to keep them through the draft.

This turns my 7 round mock up ******* side down.

BigDaddyBronco
02-12-2009, 06:48 PM
Doesn't seem like there is a well thought out plan going on. Maybe Bowlen is going crazy like Al.

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 06:49 PM
but should get just as much "credit" for failing to improve the D.

Yeah, they did pick Moss and Clam. Good point, homo.

DallasChief
02-12-2009, 06:50 PM
Doesn't seem like there is a well thought out plan going on. Maybe Bowlen is going crazy like Al.

Let's hope so.

Rex
02-12-2009, 06:50 PM
Doesn't seem like there is a well thought out plan going on. Maybe Bowlen is going crazy like Al.

Maybe he is sick and effing tired of losing.:shocked:

underrated29
02-12-2009, 06:51 PM
I thought bowlen said jim would stay on as personall manager or whatever and that he wasnt leaving?

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 06:53 PM
I thought bowlen said jim would stay on as personall manager or whatever and that he wasnt leaving?

Yeah, in the press conference he seems pretty adamant the Goodmans were staying. I tivo'ed it and watch it every Friday night.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-12-2009, 06:53 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8839

Broncos Name Xanders General Manager

DenverBroncos.com

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Denver Broncos President and CEO Pat Bowlen on Thursday announced the appointment of Brian Xanders as General Manager for the National Football League team, effective immediately.

Bowlen said, "In evaluating the work of our football operations department over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that Brian Xanders is the right person to step into our general manager’s job. I am confident he will work in tandem with Head Coach Josh McDaniels to re-establish our football team at the level we desire."

Bowlen also announced that both Jim Goodman and Jeff Goodman have been dismissed from the organization. Jim Goodman had been Vice President of Football Operations and Jeff Goodman had been Assistant General Manager, sharing that post with Xanders.

Xanders said, "This appointment comes with unfortunate circumstances as I have enjoyed working with Jim and Jeff over the last year. Nevertheless, I am humbled by this opportunity and accept it as a great challenge on behalf of our fans, our community, Mr. Bowlen and the organization. I am excited to work together with Coach McDaniels and put our collective resources into winning football games."

McDaniels said, "I want to thank Jim and Jeff for their contributions to the Denver Broncos. I’m excited for Brian and look forward to working with him hand-in-hand well into the future."

Xanders joined the Broncos as Assistant General Manager on May 5, 2008, after spending the previous 14 years with the Atlanta Falcons in player personnel, coaching and football operations.

Xanders now is in charge of all player personnel issues, including college scouting, pro personnel and labor negotiations. He also will have oversight responsibilities with respect to the video, equipment, grounds and athletic training staffs.

He played college football at Florida State University, where he was a linebacker on four bowl-winning teams. Xanders graduated from FSU with a bachelor’s degree in business management along with a master’s degree in business administration.

Buff
02-12-2009, 06:53 PM
From what I heard, Goodman was a bit of a good ol' southern boy, maybe in a little over his head at the top spot. Good scout, good eye for talent, but not fit to lead.

turftoad
02-12-2009, 06:53 PM
Talk about a total house cleaning.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 06:54 PM
Yeah, they did pick Moss and Clam. Good point, homo.

Thanx assbag!

NameUsedBefore
02-12-2009, 06:54 PM
Who the hell.

Cheez Whiz
02-12-2009, 06:57 PM
What the ****?

Taco John was right. Bowlen is a gutless drunk.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-12-2009, 06:58 PM
With Xanders already on the payroll, looks to be like a money saving move. They better have it all together before the draft rolls around :shocked:

BigDaddyBronco
02-12-2009, 06:58 PM
Let's hope so.

You stay out of this. Mullet boy.

Buff
02-12-2009, 06:58 PM
From what I heard, Goodman was a bit of a good ol' southern boy, maybe in a little over his head at the top spot. Good scout, good eye for talent, but not fit to lead.

^ Via Sandy Clough and Jim Goodman on 104.3 fan over the past couple months...

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 07:00 PM
^ Via Sandy Clough and Jim Goodman on 104.3 fan over the past couple months...

Nice stereotype. Is this where you tell me black people like watermelon?

GEM
02-12-2009, 07:02 PM
When can I expect to hear...


Nate Webster can go roll his helmet somewhere else, he was shown the door today.


When dammit? That will be a glorious day in Broncos history.

Instead....the Goodman's have been fired. After having it fed continually at the news conference that we won't have a GM and that the Goodman's will be covering those duties.

Bowlen...you're making it difficult to be a damn Broncos fan right now. :brickwall:

Rex
02-12-2009, 07:04 PM
Thanx assbag!

WTF is an assbag?

BTW< Kiffen is really showing his ass down there in Tenn! LMAO! or do you like Kentucky? I forget.

G_Money
02-12-2009, 07:06 PM
This is, flatly, dumb.

Free agency starts in 2 weeks. TWO WEEKS. The combine starts in 8 days.

Draft prep has been going on for months.

And Xanders, who AFAIK is known more for contracts and cap work than for actual talent acquisition, is promoted a fortnight before the most important FA period in recent Broncos memory?

While we simultaneously fire the only fellas who ever seemed to make a dent in the talent pool on draft day.

The Goodmans should be out of work for about 2.3 seconds. There's always a way to add guys who can close their eyes, throw darts at a board, and add Pro-Bowlers as we've been doing via the draft for three years. The worst draft that they were a significant part of still added a Pro Bowl quality RT and a DL starter. Half the teams in the league would kill to do that every year. Their best drafts are potentially 2 of the 10 best drafts this decade by ANY TEAM. Pro Bowl QB and WR, Pro Bowl caliber LT, one of the best pass-catching TEs in the league, starting RG, DE with multiple 10+ sack seasons, best rookie WR and KR, another starting WR and quality KR who is now with another team, backup OG/C who will fight for a starting spot, backup LB and S who might be starters this coming year as well, decent nickel back....

THEY'RE ALL STILL ON THE TEAM. Well, save Hixon, who should be.

And now the Goodmans are gone. Because...why?

Right now, at this point in our draft and FA buildup, it's silly to just chuck them out the door on their ear if this was the plan all along. So what happened?

Did they fail to properly genuflect to McKid? Was there a tasteless joke email that got circulated to the wrong people?

Because it sure doesn't feel like a planned move.

And unplanned moves can backfire, especially if they happen at the wrong time.

I dunno if this is the wrong time, but it sure feels like an awkward time.

The best drafts we've ever had have come with the Goodmans having a significant say, Mr. Bowlen. You'd better hope the guy who replaces them can bring in half that talent in the draft - and that the Goodmans don't go to a rival, like say SD, and help AJ Smith replenish their stock pile in the AFC West arms race.

Guh. I need a drink.

~G

red98
02-12-2009, 07:06 PM
...and athletic training staffs

Wonder who's next?

BigDaddyBronco
02-12-2009, 07:07 PM
Nice stereotype. Is this where you tell me black people like watermelon?
All those good ol boys with their moonshine and overalls. Do you think they put a big X when they sign their name?

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 07:07 PM
WTF is an assbag?

BTW< Kiffen is really showing his ass down there in Tenn! LMAO! or do you like Kentucky? I forget.

what season is it?

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 07:08 PM
Thank you G. I agree. Where is that Kool Aid you wanted me to drink?

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 07:09 PM
All those good ol boys with their moonshine and overalls. Do you think they put a big X when they sign their name?

Reckon we ought to head down to the field and catch the ball game. Uncle jessie said he would drive us.

fcspikeit
02-12-2009, 07:11 PM
When I got the text I was almost as surprised as I was when Shanahan got the boot..

There was supposed to be a bomb at the press conference, I wonder if this was it, a few weeks late?

I don't get it? Why didn't he just promote Xanders as GM and leave the Goodmans on staff? He is going to have to pay them anyways!

I don't like this one bit :sad:

BigDaddyBronco
02-12-2009, 07:11 PM
Reckon we ought to head down to the field and catch the ball game. Uncle jessie said he would drive us.
Uh oh, it's the revenuers. Get your blue tick hound and let's scoot outa here.

Buff
02-12-2009, 07:12 PM
Nice stereotype. Is this where you tell me black people like watermelon?

Just trying to provide some insight.

Magnificent Seven
02-12-2009, 07:12 PM
Default
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Denver Broncos President and CEO Pat Bowlen on Thursday announced the appointment of Brian Xanders as General Manager for the National Football League team, effective immediately.

Bowlen said, "In evaluating the work of our football operations department over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that Brian Xanders is the right person to step into our general manager’s job. I am confident he will work in tandem with Head Coach Josh McDaniels to re-establish our football team at the level we desire."

Bowlen also announced that both Jim Goodman and Jeff Goodman have been dismissed from the organization. Jim Goodman had been Vice President of Football Operations and Jeff Goodman had been Assistant General Manager, sharing that post with Xanders.

Xanders said, "This appointment comes with unfortunate circumstances as I have enjoyed working with Jim and Jeff over the last year. Nevertheless, I am humbled by this opportunity and accept it as a great challenge on behalf of our fans, our community, Mr. Bowlen and the organization. I am excited to work together with Coach McDaniels and put our collective resources into winning football games."

McDaniels said, "I want to thank Jim and Jeff for their contributions to the Denver Broncos. I’m excited for Brian and look forward to working with him hand-in-hand well into the future."

Xanders joined the Broncos as Assistant General Manager on May 5, 2008, after spending the previous 14 years with the Atlanta Falcons in player personnel, coaching and football operations.

Xanders now is in charge of all player personnel issues, including college scouting, pro personnel and labor negotiations. He also will have oversight responsibilities with respect to the video, equipment, grounds and athletic training staffs.

He played college football at Florida State University, where he was a linebacker on four bowl-winning teams. Xanders graduated from FSU with a bachelor’s degree in business management along with a master’s degree in business administration.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8839

spikerman
02-12-2009, 07:12 PM
It sounds like the people in charge at Dove Valley have no clue about what they're doing. If this keeps up we may remember 8-8 seasons like the last one as "the good ol' days".

turftoad
02-12-2009, 07:13 PM
All those good ol boys with their moonshine and overalls. Do you think they put a big X when they sign their name?

No BDB, but Xanders does. :D

nevcraw
02-12-2009, 07:15 PM
Xanders now is in charge of all player personnel issues, including college scouting, pro personnel and labor negotiations. He also will have oversight responsibilities with respect to the video, equipment, grounds and athletic training staffs.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________

Maybe he is the only one capable of helping McKid tape the other teams signals..

oobehr
02-12-2009, 07:17 PM
It's not like we fired Scott Piolo and hired Matt Millen here guys. My brother in law is a huge falcons fan and knows a little something about Xanders and has a high opinion about the guy. And we don't know who gets credit for good drafts we have had or who gets the blame for the bad defences we have had. Bowlen clearly wants the franchise to be fresh, new gm at the same time we get a new coach to get some chemistry going. I think until Xanders gives Nate Webster a 14 million dollar a year contract we should give him a chance.

fcspikeit
02-12-2009, 07:19 PM
IMO this could hurt us a lot more then losing Shanahan...

We were 8 and freaking 8. We're not the Lions! We didn't need a complete house cleaning.. They did an outstanding job scouting, Xman could have handled the contract situations and let them scout the talent. Why would he fire them? There has to be more to this then him feeling they weren't doing a good job. :mad:

Denver Native (Carol)
02-12-2009, 07:22 PM
Sandy Clough and Jim Williams are both saying that it appears McDaniels has as much power as Shanahan had. Also, a 32 yr old coach, and a 38 yr old General Manager. Also, Jim Goodman was the boss over all of the scouts?????? WHAT NOW :tsk:

red98
02-12-2009, 07:23 PM
IMO this could hurt us a lot more then losing Shanahan...

We were 8 and freaking 8. Were not the Lions! We didn't need a complete house cleaning.. They did an outstanding job scouting, Xman could have handled the contract situations and let them scout the talent. Why would he fire them? There has to be more to this then him feeling they weren't doing a good job. :mad:


Probably a "too many bosses" type deal. I'm sure we can expect many more changes over the next few months.

It's a whole new ballgame.

fcspikeit
02-12-2009, 07:24 PM
It's not like we fired Scott Piolo and hired Matt Millen here guys. My brother in law is a huge falcons fan and knows a little something about Xanders and has a high opinion about the guy. And we don't know who gets credit for good drafts we have had or who gets the blame for the bad defences we have had. Bowlen clearly wants the franchise to be fresh, new gm at the same time we get a new coach to get some chemistry going. I think until Xanders gives Nate Webster a 14 million dollar a year contract we should give him a chance.

He was already on staff to split the GM duties. What did we gain by cutting the Goodmans out?

If Xman gives Nate freaking Webster anything close to a starters contract, I will never forgive the guy! I don't even want him on the team, but I could probably live with the signing, if it was for him to play special teams and only special teams.

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 07:24 PM
IMO this could hurt us a lot more then losing Shanahan...

We were 8 and freaking 8. Were not the Lions! We didn't need a complete house cleaning.. They did an outstanding job scouting, Xman could have handled the contract situations and let them scout the talent. Why would he fire them? There has to be more to this then him feeling they weren't doing a good job. :mad:

I'm sure there is more to it than Bowlen can say.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-12-2009, 07:25 PM
IMO this could hurt us a lot more then losing Shanahan...

We were 8 and freaking 8. Were not the Lions! We didn't need a complete house cleaning.. They did an outstanding job scouting, Xman could have handled the contract situations and let them scout the talent. Why would he fire them? There has to be more to this then him feeling they weren't doing a good job. :mad:

And, I would assume that they will still get paid, unless they land elsewhere :confused:

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 07:27 PM
I'm surprised this took so long.

We all knew Shanahan had hired yes men for years, and I don't think any of us should be that surprised that Shanahan's men are gone when he's gone.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
02-12-2009, 07:28 PM
Here's a thought for you guys:


Josh McDaniels began his NFL career in the scouting department. Belichick said he was excellent in that role before progressing as a defensive assistant and then QBs coach and OC.

Scouting player personnel is how Josh McDaniels got into the NFL in the first place. What you have now is a head coach that is going to hand pick his own groceries. Is that good? Bill Parcels thinks so.

Xanders will handle the business side of things.

Nomad
02-12-2009, 07:29 PM
It seems like a disagreement between the Goodmans and Bowlen and when that happens usually the owner will tell you to take a hike. Oh well, it's done time to move one!!!

Buff
02-12-2009, 07:37 PM
Holy Shit... MUG sighting...

GEM
02-12-2009, 07:39 PM
I'm surprised this took so long.

We all knew Shanahan had hired yes men for years, and I don't think any of us should be that surprised that Shanahan's men are gone when he's gone.

Mo's back. :dance:

Magnificent Seven
02-12-2009, 07:41 PM
Here's the blip from the Denver Broncos offical homepage.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8839

Thursday, February 12, 2009



Broncos Name Xanders General Manager


Brian Xanders has been named General Manager of the Denver Broncos. PHOTO: ERIC LARS BAKKE

DenverBroncos.com

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Denver Broncos President and CEO Pat Bowlen on Thursday announced the appointment of Brian Xanders as General Manager for the National Football League team, effective immediately.

Bowlen said, "In evaluating the work of our football operations department over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that Brian Xanders is the right person to step into our general manager’s job. I am confident he will work in tandem with Head Coach Josh McDaniels to re-establish our football team at the level we desire."

Bowlen also announced that both Jim Goodman and Jeff Goodman have been dismissed from the organization. Jim Goodman had been Vice President of Football Operations and Jeff Goodman had been Assistant General Manager, sharing that post with Xanders.

Xanders said, "This appointment comes with unfortunate circumstances as I have enjoyed working with Jim and Jeff over the last year. Nevertheless, I am humbled by this opportunity and accept it as a great challenge on behalf of our fans, our community, Mr. Bowlen and the organization. I am excited to work together with Coach McDaniels and put our collective resources into winning football games."

McDaniels said, "I want to thank Jim and Jeff for their contributions to the Denver Broncos. I’m excited for Brian and look forward to working with him hand-in-hand well into the future."

Xanders joined the Broncos as Assistant General Manager on May 5, 2008, after spending the previous 14 years with the Atlanta Falcons in player personnel, coaching and football operations.

Xanders now is in charge of all player personnel issues, including college scouting, pro personnel and labor negotiations. He also will have oversight responsibilities with respect to the video, equipment, grounds and athletic training staffs.

He played college football at Florida State University, where he was a linebacker on four bowl-winning teams. Xanders graduated from FSU with a bachelor’s degree in business management along with a master’s degree in business administration.

I posted that earlier. Scroll up.

elsid13
02-12-2009, 07:46 PM
Here's a thought for you guys:


Josh McDaniels began his NFL career in the scouting department. Belichick said he was excellent in that role before progressing as a defensive assistant and then QBs coach and OC.

Scouting player personnel is how Josh McDaniels got into the NFL in the first place. What you have now is a head coach that is going to hand pick his own groceries. Is that good? Bill Parcels thinks so.

Xanders will handle the business side of things.

Rookie Head Coach and Rookie Personnel Evaluator. That doesn't sound like the Titanic I don't know what does.

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 07:50 PM
It seems like a disagreement between the Goodmans and Bowlen and when that happens usually the owner will tell you to take a hike. Oh well, it's done time to move one!!!

That or Bowlen found something in Goodmans job preformances that he didn't like.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
02-12-2009, 07:58 PM
From reading Xanders bio, it sounds like he has a firm grasp of the business side of a football operation, but he doesn't have much of a scouting background.


He doesn't, but Josh McDaniels does. And that is why this happened, and hows its going to work. McDaniels is going to pick personnel, Xanders handles the books.

D1g1tal j1m
02-12-2009, 07:59 PM
Man the downsizing from the Economy is hitting the Broncos hard.

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 08:00 PM
From reading Xanders bio, it sounds like he has a firm grasp of the business side of a football operation, but he doesn't have much of a scouting background.

I guess I was understanding his bio a little differently. The way read it sounds like he spent 14 years with Falcons working in and around the evaluation of talent.

hotcarl
02-12-2009, 08:01 PM
heres what happened:

1. josh mcD looked at the roster up close and said "who the **** gave these people a job"?
2. bowlen says "oh shit, you are right"
3. goodmans lose job.

good

prepare for a massive purge of crappy players

goodbye for now

:welcome:

omac
02-12-2009, 08:05 PM
The 2008 draft happened April 26 & 27.

According to the posted article, Xanders was hired May 5. This old blog article ... http://broncotalk.net/2008/04/brian-xanders-offered-job-to-assist-goodmans-in-broncos-gm-duties/ ... shows a posting date of April 29.

Here are part 1 & 2 of interviews with Brian Xanders when he was still with the Falcons last March if anyone wants to listen. In it, he states his duties with the Falcons, which seemingly used to be very draft heavy and moved more into working with player contracts, looking for practice squad players, UDFAs, etc.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/MediaLounge/VideoLanding.aspx?q=Brian+Xanders

Well, obviously he had nothing to do with our drafts; I wanna know which Falcon drafts he was heavily involved in so we can check how successful he was at it. Any Falcon fan here?

Denver Native (Carol)
02-12-2009, 08:08 PM
He doesn't, but Josh McDaniels does. And that is why this happened, and hows its going to work. McDaniels is going to pick personnel, Xanders handles the books.

McDaniels = head coach, McDaniels = pick personnel (GM) - oh, it sounds like McDaniels = Shanahan????

No wonder Bowlen said he would hire a head coach first. He basically also hired a GM in the same person, but just did not say so.

Clough and Williams both said they feel it was McDaniels decision to get rid of the Goodmans, as Bowlen said in his press conference 6 weeks ago, when he fired Shanahan, that the front office would remain intact.

hotcarl
02-12-2009, 08:11 PM
McDaniels = head coach, McDaniels = pick personnel (GM) - oh, it sounds like McDaniels = Shanahan????

No wonder Bowlen said he would hire a head coach first. He basically also hired a GM in the same person, but just did not say so.

Clough and Williams both said they feel it was McDaniels decision to get rid of the Goodmans, as Bowlen said in his press conference 6 weeks ago, when he fired Shanahan, that the front office would remain intact.

get over it :listen:

rcsodak
02-12-2009, 08:11 PM
IMO this could hurt us a lot more then losing Shanahan...

We were 8 and freaking 8. We're not the Lions! We didn't need a complete house cleaning.. They did an outstanding job scouting, Xman could have handled the contract situations and let them scout the talent. Why would he fire them? There has to be more to this then him feeling they weren't doing a good job. :mad:

They did? You mean with the plethora of safety's that were brought in last year?

For all we know, the Goodmans were wanting to give Webster "another chance"!

Give it a break, people! This IS Pat's team, and up to now, ya'll have said he's one of, if not THE, best owner in the league.

Damn wagon-jumpers! :rolleyes:



:D

Dean
02-12-2009, 08:13 PM
I have to wonder if the firings arn't linked to the release of several players recently. It doesn't really matter what brought it on or whether it was deserved or not. The timing sucks.

Why couldn't have everything been left status quo until after the draft. This is not sound leadership practices. A virgin coach and GM trying to right the ship sounds like an invitation to disaster.

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 08:15 PM
The 2008 draft happened April 26 & 27.

According to the posted article, Xanders was hired May 5. This old blog article ... http://broncotalk.net/2008/04/brian-xanders-offered-job-to-assist-goodmans-in-broncos-gm-duties/ ... shows a posting date of April 29.

Here are part 1 & 2 of interviews with Brian Xanders when he was still with the Falcons last March if anyone wants to listen. In it, he states his duties with the Falcons, which seemingly used to be very draft heavy and moved more into working with player contracts, looking for practice squad players, UDFAs, etc.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/MediaLounge/VideoLanding.aspx?q=Brian+Xanders

Well, obviously he had nothing to do with our drafts; I wanna know which Falcon drafts he was heavily involved in so we can check how successful he was at it. Any Falcon fan here?

Thanks Omac. :beer:

elsid13
02-12-2009, 08:16 PM
The 2008 draft happened April 26 & 27.

According to the posted article, Xanders was hired May 5. This old blog article ... http://broncotalk.net/2008/04/brian-xanders-offered-job-to-assist-goodmans-in-broncos-gm-duties/ ... shows a posting date of April 29.

Here are part 1 & 2 of interviews with Brian Xanders when he was still with the Falcons last March if anyone wants to listen. In it, he states his duties with the Falcons, which seemingly used to be very draft heavy and moved more into working with player contracts, looking for practice squad players, UDFAs, etc.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/MediaLounge/VideoLanding.aspx?q=Brian+Xanders

Well, obviously he had nothing to do with our drafts; I wanna know which Falcon drafts he was heavily involved in so we can check how successful he was at it. Any Falcon fan here?


They were bottom feeder when he was there.

hotcarl
02-12-2009, 08:16 PM
I have to wonder if the firings arn't linked to the release of several players recently. It doesn't really matter what brought it on or whether it was deserved or not. The timing sucks.

Why couldn't have everything been left status quo until after the draft. This is not sound leadership practices. A virgin coach and GM trying to right the ship sounds like an invitation to disaster.

boo hoo change is hard

lets be mediocre until it feels better

hotcarl
02-12-2009, 08:18 PM
They were bottom feeder when he was there.

yeah superbowl appearances are bottom feeders

:welcome:

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 08:24 PM
boo hoo change is hard

lets be mediocre until it feels better

A word of friendly advice, attacking these other posters when they haven't done crap to you, bad idea.

hotcarl
02-12-2009, 08:27 PM
A word of friendly advice, attacking these other posters when they haven't done crap to you, bad idea.

thanks for the tip

:welcome:

Tned
02-12-2009, 08:27 PM
Don't have time to read this thread, but just have to say when I got the text from CBS4 this afternoon, I was blown away. It seems that most of us and the press thought the Goodmans were going to running the show, and were the architects of the recent good drafts.

This is pretty much a full regime change. Now all that is left is to see what actually happens on the player front, as it seems that nothign is off the table.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 08:32 PM
wow...haven't seen hotcarl around in a while...and never missed it.

Nomad
02-12-2009, 08:34 PM
You won't know if this was a bad move until after next season! Give this a chance to work out before crucifying! Seeing all the speculation, I still think it was a disagreement in the way Bowlen wanted the team going and why would he want someone keeping, picking up, or drafting players that they disagree with!

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 08:38 PM
You won't know if this was a bad move until after next season! Give this a chance to work out before crucifying! Seeing all the speculation, I still think it was a disagreement in the way Bowlen wanted the team going and why would he want someone keeping, picking up, or drafting players that they disagree with!

I agree full heartily we should given it a chance to work before getting out of kilter.

Calif. Bronco
02-12-2009, 09:03 PM
Read Bowlen's first two sentences:

"In evaluating the work of our football operations department over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that Brian Xanders is the right person to step into our general manager’s job. I am confident he will work in tandem with Head Coach Josh McDaniels to re-establish our football team at the level we desire."

Reading between the lines, I'd guess Xanders and McDaniels hit it off while McDaniels and the Goodmans perhaps did not. :coffee:

Nomad
02-12-2009, 09:05 PM
I agree full heartily we should given it a chance to work before getting out of kilter.

At least it hasn't gotten so bad around here to where people are wanting Bowlen to sell the team like at BM!:lol:

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 09:06 PM
At least it hasn't gotten so bad around here to where people are wanting Bowlen to sell the team like at BM!:lol:

You got to be kidding. :lol:

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 09:08 PM
Read Bowlen's first two sentences:

"In evaluating the work of our football operations department over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that Brian Xanders is the right person to step into our general manager’s job. I am confident he will work in tandem with Head Coach Josh McDaniels to re-establish our football team at the level we desire."

Reading between the lines, I'd guess Xanders and McDaniels hit it off while McDaniels and the Goodmans perhaps did not. :coffee:

It certainly has to be more than just Bowlen woke up this morning and decided that the Goodmans had to go.

Of we're never going to know exactly what happened.

fcspikeit
02-12-2009, 09:10 PM
They did? You mean with the plethora of safety's that were brought in last year?

For all we know, the Goodmans were wanting to give Webster "another chance"!

Give it a break, people! This IS Pat's team, and up to now, ya'll have said he's one of, if not THE, best owner in the league.

Damn wagon-jumpers! :rolleyes:



:D

What exactly does that prove? :confused:

People have that opinion because they approve of what he has done. As soon as they no longer approve of his decisions, Opinions can change..

If their opinions aren't based off his decisions, what grounds would they have to even make a comment like that?

If your going to regard the opinions of the people that said, "he's one of, if not THE, best owner in the league", why wouldn't you also respect the same people if they said he made a bad decision? :confused:

This is all about your agreement with those who said he was one of the best owners in the league..

G_Money
02-12-2009, 09:11 PM
We don't have a choice now but to ride it out. It's not like our shock or surprise or anger will make a difference. ;)

It's just not optimal. Having your employees apparently get involved in infighting and cutting the ones who lose off the team entirely, even though they appear to be unusually gifted at some aspects of your business, is not optimal.

The timing? Not optimal.

What it says to all the other guys in the org, the ones who watched the Goodmans work their way up the ladder with smart evaluations and then get lopped off? Not optimal.

We're not used to change around here, but we're still far from dysfunctional. But this is how dysfunctional orgs like the Lions and Jets start getting that way, and I'd rather we don't take steps down that path.

When you do instigate change in an organization, you want people to believe there's a plan, and that the plan is smart, well-implemented and above all the right plan.

When you pull musical chairs with your employees, it makes it hard for them to believe in the plan.

Again, not optimal.

~G

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 09:11 PM
OK folks lets look at this for a minute.. Did we fire all the scouts?

If we did then this could be a bad move but it sounds like instead reporting to Goodman's they now report to a real GM type..

Sounds like the model MOST NFL teams have..

NO more chicken little posts about the sky is falling..

I'd guess that when Pat said they would be around he meant t but obviously they did not click with someone in the group Pat, Mc Kid, Xman.. perhaps they thought now that mikey was gone they were totally in charge..

Who the hell knows but I'd have liked to been a fly on the wall..

I personally think I'd have wanted to keep them through the draft.. but then they may also have non compete clauses also..

Looks to me that Pat is now in charge no questions asked..

Slick
02-12-2009, 09:13 PM
Looks like we went from a dictatorship to a democracy and back to a dictatorship. I'm not shocked, but a little surprised. If ths was going to happen, I thought it would have been when Shanahan was fired.

I'm confused, but still on the wagon.

fcspikeit
02-12-2009, 09:15 PM
Read Bowlen's first two sentences:

"In evaluating the work of our football operations department over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that Brian Xanders is the right person to step into our general manager’s job. I am confident he will work in tandem with Head Coach Josh McDaniels to re-establish our football team at the level we desire."

Reading between the lines, I'd guess Xanders and McDaniels hit it off while McDaniels and the Goodmans perhaps did not. :coffee:

Didn't the Goodmans have a hand in picking the new head coach? :confused:

It's pretty clear Pat was high on the Goodmans, McDaniels has to have had something to do with this... I hate the idea of that..

I thought the goal was to have a collaboration of minds in the FO, if McDanies has that much power, it isn't much difference then when Shanahan were here.

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 09:19 PM
Looks like we went from a dictatorship to a democracy and back to a dictatorship. I'm not shocked, but a little surprised. If ths was going to happen, I thought it would have been when Shanahan was fired.

I'm confused, but still on the wagon.


do not worry you'll be drinking by the end of the FA period..

Buff
02-12-2009, 09:20 PM
I personally view this as a positive.

I've never heard any rave reviews about Goodman as a GM, aside from 1 good draft (In which he may or may not have been the mastermind), and I don't like the idea of a 3-headed GM with 2 guys who are related... Let alone that they were Shanahan guys.

I definitely am not angry.

Nomad
02-12-2009, 09:20 PM
OK folks lets look at this for a minute.. Did we fire all the scouts?

If we did then this could be a bad move but it sounds like instead reporting to Goodman's they now report to a real GM type..

Sounds like the model MOST NFL teams have..

NO more chicken little posts about the sky is falling..

I'd guess that when Pat said they would be around he meant t but obviously they did not click with someone in the group Pat, Mc Kid, Xman.. perhaps they thought now that mikey was gone they were totally in charge..

Who the hell knows but I'd have liked to been a fly on the wall..

I personally think I'd have wanted to keep them through the draft.. but then they may also have non compete clauses also..

Looks to me that Pat is now in charge no questions asked..


A fly on the wall ...yes...throughout the whole offseason as well!

JR, you may want to start handing out paperbags before people start hyperventilating!:D

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 09:21 PM
sounds to me like maybe Bowlen is taking control back from the inmates. Good for him. He writes the checks.

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 09:22 PM
Brian Xanders appointed GM of the Broncos

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/12/xander-appointed-gm-broncos/

ENGLEWOOD — Broncos owner Pat Bowlen said it when he fired Mike Shanahan and said it again Thursday when he promoted Brian Xanders.

When it comes to the business of his team, he calls the shots.

“I felt we needed a general manager and Brian was my choice,” Bowlen said. “ ... I want the general manager reporting to me on our new staff.”

In moving Xanders up from his assistant general manager’s position, Bowlen also fired vice president of football operations/personnel Jim Goodman and assistant general manager Jeff Goodman.

The moves continue Bowlen’s quest to clearly define roles in the team’s front office as he moves away from Shanahan’s 14-year tenure as head coach and the team’s top football executive.

“The decision to make Brian Xanders the general manager, reporting back to me, was an important decision,” Bowlen said. “It was not going to be a workable situation between Jeff (Goodman) and Brian. And I think they would say the same thing.”

Xanders did not return a message and the Goodmans could not be reached for comment Thursday.

Bowlen said Xanders will now oversee all of the team’s player personnel operations, including college scouting, pro personnel and contract negotiations. He will also oversee the team’s video, equipment, grounds and training staffs.

In a statement Xanders said, “This appointment comes with unfortunate circumstances as I have enjoyed working with Jim and Jeff over the last year. Nevertheless, I am humbled by this opportunity and accept it as a great challenge on behalf of our fans, our community, Mr. Bowlen and the organization. I am excited to work together with coach (Josh) McDaniels and put our collective resources into winning football games.”

Bowlen said that McDaniels will not report to Xanders, but to Bowlen, and that Xanders now will report to Bowlen as well.

It puts Bowlen clearly at the top of the team’s corporate flow chart with the head coach clearly directing the team’s coaching staff and on-field work with a general manager coordinating scouting and personnel.

Asked Thursday if Xanders’ promotion now made him the team’s top football executive, Bowlen responded, “That’s safe to say, but the head coach is also a football executive. And they’re working together, but Josh has a big job ahead of him and is obviously a very significant part of the organization and I want to make sure we understand that.”

Asked who would make the final decision if there was no consensus on a player, Bowlen said, “There won’t be any ties.”

“I like the idea of having of having a general manager report directly to me and he has a good relationship with the new head coach as well,” Bowlen said. “I don’t know that I’ll suddenly become a great personnel guy, watching film all the time. But I’ll listen to Brian, I’ll listen to anyone in the back of the building (the personnel and scouting departments) and I’ll listen to the head coach. Let me put it this way, we’ll make an informed decision that we all agree on.”

Thursday’s move marked another aggressive shift for Bowlen, one he said he simply needed time to consider. Jim Goodman, who had been one of Shanahan’s most trusted confidants, was in his 12th year with the team since joining as a scout in 1998.

Jeff Goodman, Jim’s son, was set to enter his fourth season with the team. Tyler Goodman, also Jim’s son, just began his second season as a scout for the team.

Just after Bowlen hired McDaniels last month he said “I have no intention of hiring a general manager” and he also said he intended to leave the team’s personnel department intact.

However, in the weeks since as the team evaluated its current roster, attended postseason all-star games like last month’s Senior Bowl and continued to prepare for the scouting combine as well as the opening of free agency Feb. 27, Bowlen said he came to the decision that it was Xanders who should hold the job and that the team’s front office needed to be “steamlined.”

“I don’t want to sound like I didn’t have a great deal of respect for the Goodmans, for Jeff and Jim, but I felt Brian ... was very capable of being a general manager,” Bowlen said. “... I don’t disenfranchise Jim, he did a hell of a job for us, but I felt I wanted Brian in that role, it just took me a while to decide on that.”

At his introductory press conference McDaniels said it was Jim Goodman who would have final say on football matters and Bowlen said the same day that “I think we have all the talent we need in that area,” but Thursday Bowlen said at that time he still hadn’t reached a final decision on what the team’s front office would look like

“I don’t know that I had Jim in that role, that was the perception,” Bowlen said.

Bowlen said while he did give some thought to interviewing a candidate or two for the general manger’s job from outside the organization, he did not meet with anyone about the job other than Xanders.

Xanders, a former linebacker at Florida State, joined the Broncos in May 2008, after spending 14 years with the Atlanta Falcons in player personnel, coaching and football operations.

Excellent find RMS. :2thumbs:

Requiem / The Dagda
02-12-2009, 09:23 PM
Not really surprised at all, not even bothered. The people placing the successful drafts on just the Goodman's has always been a ridiculous concept in the first place. Go Xanders.

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 09:24 PM
I would be more leary of this move if Bowlen brought in Carl Petersen to replace the Goodmans.

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 09:26 PM
A fly on the wall ...yes...throughout the whole offseason as well!

JR, you may want to start handing out paperbags before people start hyperventilating!:D

Outstanding thought to some I'll hand out paper bags to others Plastic with tie wraps..

That should calm the PMS happening right about now..

Hey and I thought it was going to be a boring weekend..:laugh:

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 09:28 PM
sounds to me like maybe Bowlen is taking control back from the inmates. Good for him. He writes the checks.

about frickin time..

contract for life what a FUBAR that was..

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 09:30 PM
Not really surprised at all, not even bothered. The people placing the successful drafts on just the Goodman's has always been a ridiculous concept in the first place. Go Xanders.

I believe the count is one good one, one bad one, and one not really sure at this point...so 1-1-1...I liked the Goodman's, but there are plenty of personnel men that can do the job, and if they didn't work well with McDaniels, that makes them expendable.

omac
02-12-2009, 09:31 PM
The Goodmans have churned out some real solid drafts. They've been particularly excellent with their picks on offense, and a lot of the defense rookies they took seemed to greatly outperform the veterans.

I would've liked to see what the Goodmans could do for defense while working with Mike Nolan.

Well hopefully this draft, Doogie hits one out of the park.

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 09:32 PM
and a lot of the defense rookies they took seemed to greatly outperform the veterans.

Um...huh...I'll agree with the offense...but...

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 09:34 PM
The Goodmans have churned out some real solid drafts. They've been particularly excellent with their picks on offense, and a lot of the defense rookies they took seemed to greatly outperform the veterans.

I would've liked to see what the Goodmans could do for defense while working with Mike Nolan.

Well hopefully this draft,XMAN and scouting staff hits one out of the park.

Edited for accuracy..

dogfish
02-12-2009, 09:39 PM
what the bloody ******* hell is going on at dove valley? doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me to promote them and then fire them weeks later-- IMO something more than what's being reported must have happened, because this is a shocking change of course just weeks before the start of free agency. . . xanders must have some especially racy naked pics-- i hope to god he's a truly qualified football guy, not just a yes man who can crunch numbers and tell bowlen what he wants to hear. . .



:tsk:

Requiem / The Dagda
02-12-2009, 09:40 PM
I believe the count is one good one, one bad one, and one not really sure at this point...so 1-1-1...I liked the Goodman's, but there are plenty of personnel men that can do the job, and if they didn't work well with McDaniels, that makes them expendable.

My point is basically why did people go out and say the Goodman's were the sole winners for our drafts and not the scouts and talent evaluators below them. *shrug* All and all, who really knows? I have no idea what goes on in the Batcave.

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 09:41 PM
Edited for accuracy..

Jr you really ought leave other people's post alone if they haven't done anything wrong. Otherwise that is abusive.

Buff
02-12-2009, 09:41 PM
Um...huh...I'll agree with the offense...but...

Woodyard and Josh Bell outplayed some of the other veteran defensive starters.

I think that's who he was referring to. Though Bell was an undrafted free agent...

Larsen showed flashes of being good too.

Buff
02-12-2009, 09:43 PM
what the bloody ******* hell is going on at dove valley? doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me to promote them and then fire them weeks later-- IMO something more than what's being reported must have happened, because this is a shocking change of course just weeks before the start of free agency. . . xanders must have some especially racy naked pics-- i hope to god he's a truly qualified football guy, not just a yes man who can crunch numbers and tell bowlen what he wants to hear. . .

:tsk:

I think he hired a coach who told him there were too many cooks in the kitchen.

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 09:44 PM
Woodyard and Josh Bell outplayed some of the other veteran defensive starters.

I think that's who he was referring to. Though Bell was an undrafted free agent...

Larsen showed flashes of being good too.

We'll have to call it a wash then, because Carlton got hurt, and Crowder and Moss can't find the field.

Buff
02-12-2009, 09:45 PM
Weren't Moss and Crowder on Sundquist's watch?

omac
02-12-2009, 09:45 PM
Outstanding thought to some I'll hand out paper bags to others Plastic with tie wraps..

That should calm the PMS happening right about now..

Hey and I thought it was going to be a boring weekend..:laugh:

I'm not concerned at all about the offense, but who the Broncos draft on defense will obviously have a great impact. Firing our main draft guys who had a big hand in our recent very successful drafts, and promoting a guy who wasn't even involved in any of those recent drafts, is cause for concern. The timing of it, 2 months before the draft, is as G_Money says, not optimal either.

From his interview while with the Falcons, it didn't seem like Xanders was that involved in the Falcons later drafts, but more on handling the money side of it. Whose post was it that said McDaniels would be the guy controlling the draft? I'm thinking he's right.

On the very bright side, our defense can't get any worse .... or can it? :D

dogfish
02-12-2009, 09:46 PM
I think he hired a coach who told him there were too many cooks in the kitchen.

if that's the case, i hope they fired the right guys-- dudes who can crunch numbers are easy to find, quality talent evaluators not so much. . .

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 09:46 PM
Weren't Moss and Crowder on Sundquist's watch?

GP...I know Moss was credited towards the Goodman's having more power in the organization, though.

Meh, either way...I look forward to not having to defend Shanahan's drafting from here on out...a clean house isn't a bad one.

omac
02-12-2009, 09:48 PM
Edited for accuracy..

Well, maybe. From the interview of Xanders that I posted, done last March when he was in Atlanta, he became more of the numbers guy than the draft guy. Maybe that's what Pat wants, more of a numbers guy than a talent scout; more of a businessman.

It could very well be McDaniels and Nolan that will determine who we get on offense or defense, but that may not be a bad thing.

G_Money
02-12-2009, 09:48 PM
Not really surprised at all, not even bothered. The people placing the successful drafts on just the Goodman's has always been a ridiculous concept in the first place. Go Xanders.

We'll find out in a coupla months. I'd rather you be right. :beer:

~G

omac
02-12-2009, 09:50 PM
Um...huh...I'll agree with the offense...but...

You mean you'd take Webster over Larsen? Hehehe, just kidding. :D

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 09:52 PM
Jr you really ought leave other people's post alone if they haven't done anything wrong. Otherwise that is abusive.

you need to get a sense of humor.. If you think it is abusive report it..

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 09:52 PM
You mean you'd take Webster over Larsen? Hehehe, just kidding. :D

I'm not sold on Larsen...so, yes, I might take Webster over Larsen. A few games can't really tell the tale.

omac
02-12-2009, 09:55 PM
I'm not sold on Larsen...so, yes, I might take Webster over Larsen. A few games can't really tell the tale.

Ack, Webster, you're serious ... NNNNNOOOOOOOOO! :D :D :D

omac
02-12-2009, 09:57 PM
One thing I hope doesn't happen ...

Since both McDaniels and Xanders report directly to Pat, I hope they don't later on get into some kind of power struggle, as what happened with A.J. and Marty.

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 10:01 PM
I'm not concerned at all about the offense, but who the Broncos draft on defense will obviously have a great impact. Firing our main draft guys who had a big hand in our recent very successful drafts, and promoting a guy who wasn't even involved in any of those recent drafts, is cause for concern. The timing of it, 2 months before the draft, is as G_Money says, not optimal either.

From his interview while with the Falcons, it didn't seem like Xanders was that involved in the Falcons later drafts, but more on handling the money side of it. Whose post was it that said McDaniels would be the guy controlling the draft? I'm thinking he's right.

On the very bright side, our defense can't get any worse .... or can it? :D


the scouting is done just being evaluated at this point the Combine will have all the coaches at it I;m sure most drooling over their choices..

the heavy lifting should pretty much be done by now..

It is not like we hired someone from Thornton HS to be our coaches.. Each of them have been around the NFL for 8-30 years..

At this point the scouts give way to the coaches and then Position coaches and coordinators duke it out on who they want Then the GM and HC get involved and make the final decisions with Pat.. having the final say..

I know that FA is around the corner but everyone of the coaches have seen all of who is available.. and have made the wishes known.

Can our defense be much worse? Yes it can!! But the likelihood but probably not.. Just having players show up on Sunday and have a idea what they are supposed to do, will do wonders even for some of the skells we had last year..

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:01 PM
One thing I hope doesn't happen ...

Since both McDaniels and Xanders report directly to Pat, I hope they don't later on get into some kind of power struggle, as what happened with A.J. and Marty.

Meh...different situation...way different...I think McDaniels is in charge.

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 10:04 PM
I'm not sold on Larsen...so, yes, I might take Webster over Larsen. A few games can't really tell the tale.

While he may not be Singeltary he is a HUGE upgrade over webster..:laugh:

dogfish
02-12-2009, 10:04 PM
I'm not sold on Larsen...so, yes, I might take Webster over Larsen. A few games can't really tell the tale.



post reported. . . .


ban him again!

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:14 PM
post reported. . . .


ban him again!

I just hope that Xander is smart enough to know that neither should be starting...and that's with us going to four linebackers!

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 10:15 PM
why would he get credit for woodyard? UDFA

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:15 PM
why would he get credit for woodyard? UDFA

Last time I checked GMs sign players too...just saying...

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:16 PM
A.J. and Marty.

Sorry, second thought on this...why is it that Marty always seems to find himself in a situation where he's got an over-demanding GM/Owner...you'd think by now, he'd be smart enough to know that he needs to find a place where he can run the show.

Dean
02-12-2009, 10:18 PM
I have to wonder if the firings arn't linked to the release of several players recently. It doesn't really matter what brought it on or whether it was deserved or not. The timing sucks.

Why couldn't have everything been left status quo until after the draft. This is not sound leadership practices. A virgin coach and GM trying to right the ship sounds like an invitation to disaster.


I hate quoting myself, but I want to repeat that I feel that Bowlen screwed the pooch. It is not whether he should or should not have fired the Goodmans after giving them a promotion. The mistake was in his timing.

If McKid or Bowlen disagreed with their decissions whichever was in control in the end would make the final decission. Then, after the draft was over and only then, is the time you fire them. The decission could not have been more ill timed.

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:19 PM
I hate quoting myself, but I want to repeat that I feel that Bowlen screwed the pooch. It is not whether he should or should not have fired the Goodmans after giving them a promotion. The mistake was in his timing.

If McKid or Bowlen disagreed with their decissions whichever was in control in the end would make the final decission. Then, after the draft was over and only then, is the time you fire them. The decission could not have been more ill timed.

I think he should have fired them before he promoted them, when he let their boss go...

broncosinindy
02-12-2009, 10:21 PM
what makes no ****** sense is that Josh and most of the broncos coaches didnt go to the senior bowl.

The goodmans most likely know who we are going to target in FA and Draft. Way to go pat

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 10:21 PM
Last time I checked GMs sign players too...just saying...

I'd compare post draft UDFA signings to tossing a bunch of crap against the wall to see what sticks.

Dean
02-12-2009, 10:22 PM
It would have been better timing to have let them go then than to do it now when we need every bit of information and skill in talent evaluation.

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:22 PM
what makes no ****** sense is that Josh and most of the broncos coaches didnt go to the senior bowl.

The goodmans most likely know who we are going to target in FA and Draft. Way to go pat

The funny part, though, is that even with Shanahan, most of the players we targeted at the Senior Bowl we never drafted. We ignored Cutler.

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:22 PM
I'd compare post draft UDFA signings to tossing a bunch of crap against the wall to see what sticks.

Touche...but how the SEC's leading tackler goes undrafted is a mystery in and of itself.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 10:24 PM
I hate quoting myself, but I want to repeat that I feel that Bowlen screwed the pooch. It is not whether he should or should not have fired the Goodmans after giving them a promotion. The mistake was in his timing.

If McKid or Bowlen disagreed with their decissions whichever was in control in the end would make the final decission. Then, after the draft was over and only then, is the time you fire them. The decission could not have been more ill timed.

Unless of course there was a difference of opinion regarding the direction of the draft and Free Agency that was not realized until now. Not everything is black and white and we don't know what really goes down in the board rooms. I'm sure Pat has his reasons.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 10:24 PM
Touche...but how the SEC's leading tackler goes undrafted is a mystery in and of itself.

agreed...but Denver passed on him 7 times as well...

Ziggy
02-12-2009, 10:25 PM
I was surprised also, but the Goodmans track record has been good on one side of the ball only. Other than Wegeman, what free agents have they hit the jackpot with? Most of the FA's have been busts also. Having this happen so close to the FA signing period, it makes me wonder if the FO wasn't divided on who to sign and who not to.

As far as the timing goes, most of the evaluations have been done and turned in, with both the draft and FA. Some teams put more emphasis on the combine than others. We might get an idea of how much the Broncos place on it after this draft is over. As far as I've heard, the scouts are still in place.

Criticize Bowlen all you want, but he has taken back controll of his team. He has a GM and a coach in place, and no more of this GM by comittee crap. Too many chefs spoil the soup. It may go good and it may go bad, but how about giving it a chance before you all write this off as complete failure?

Can we rename this as thread as "The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!" thread?

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 10:27 PM
Different thought: Doe the new guy have 3-4 defense expertise? Perhaps there is an inate ability to assess talent for different types of schemes. Obviously noone in Denver can figure out defense, but maybe the Goodman's were lacking in assessing 3-4 talent as well.

BroncoTech
02-12-2009, 10:31 PM
Most organizations have to be pretty agile these days. Sounds like there was some blow ups in the front office or something and suddenly these people couldn't play nice together. So be it, move on. If the organization matches the stale-ness of the on-field play the change will do them good.

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:31 PM
Different thought: Doe the new guy have 3-4 defense expertise? Perhaps there is an inate ability to assess talent for different types of schemes. Obviously noone in Denver can figure out defense, but maybe the Goodman's were lacking in assessing 3-4 talent as well.

They clearly couldn't scout 4-3 defense, either.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-12-2009, 10:32 PM
They clearly couldn't scout 4-3 defense, either.

agreed. possible they were even more clueless regarding 3-4 players? that would be pretty hard to do.

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:33 PM
agreed. possible they were even more clueless regarding 3-4 players? that would be pretty hard to do.

Anyone know if Xanders specialty was defense...because he might need to go too.

fcspikeit
02-12-2009, 10:34 PM
Well, maybe. From the interview of Xanders that I posted, done last March when he was in Atlanta, he became more of the numbers guy than the draft guy. Maybe that's what Pat wants, more of a numbers guy than a talent scout; more of a businessman.

It could very well be McDaniels and Nolan that will determine who we get on offense or defense, but that may not be a bad thing.

If this is the case, it's to much for a 1st time coach to take on. One of the biggest problems with Shanahan having all the control was that it strung him out to much.

We don't even know if McDaniels is going to be a good head coach, now we're supposed to be ok if he has all the power over the talent?

If Pat wanted a true GM, why didn't he go after Pioli?

Pat said both Mckid and Xman had say and they both reported to him. Even if that be the case, then Pat will have final say. :shocked:

I hope he doesn't turn into Al Davis or Jerry Jones...

broncosinindy
02-12-2009, 10:37 PM
boo hoo change is hard

lets be mediocre until it feels better

Grow up dude. Dean's a good dude.

fcspikeit
02-12-2009, 10:40 PM
what makes no ****** sense is that Josh and most of the broncos coaches didnt go to the senior bowl.

The goodmans most likely know who we are going to target in FA and Draft. Way to go pat

I wonder if a division rival will consider bringing him in to see what info they can get out of them in regards to our draft plans?

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:40 PM
Grow up dude. Dean's a good dude.

broncosinindy.

Meat.

hotcarl.

Good day, sir.

omac
02-12-2009, 10:45 PM
Sorry, second thought on this...why is it that Marty always seems to find himself in a situation where he's got an over-demanding GM/Owner...you'd think by now, he'd be smart enough to know that he needs to find a place where he can run the show.

Curiously, McDaniels seems to want to be the one running the show now; he doesn't even report to Xanders, so maybe he has a little of Marty in him too, or even Mike. :D

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 10:46 PM
I'd compare post draft UDFA signings to tossing a bunch of crap against the wall to see what sticks.

Probably not more worse then a 6-7 draft choice..

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 10:46 PM
Curiously, McDaniels seems to want to be the one running the show now; he doesn't even report to Xanders, so maybe he has a little of Marty in him too, or even Mike. :D

Yeah, but I don't see A.J. Smith in Xanders...and I don't think Bowlen wants Xanders to be an A.J. Smith-type...he wants the GM-types we've had before.

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 10:49 PM
I was surprised also, but the Goodmans track record has been good on one side of the ball only. Other than Wegeman, what free agents have they hit the jackpot with? Most of the FA's have been busts also. Having this happen so close to the FA signing period, it makes me wonder if the FO wasn't divided on who to sign and who not to.

As far as the timing goes, most of the evaluations have been done and turned in, with both the draft and FA. Some teams put more emphasis on the combine than others. We might get an idea of how much the Broncos place on it after this draft is over. As far as I've heard, the scouts are still in place.

Criticize Bowlen all you want, but he has taken back controll of his team. He has a GM and a coach in place, and no more of this GM by comittee crap. Too many chefs spoil the soup. It may go good and it may go bad, but how about giving it a chance before you all write this off as complete failure?

Can we rename this as thread as "The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!" thread?

good post

I also guessing that those reports have been filed away for future reference.. and Mc kid can always ask uncle Billy for advise..

omac
02-12-2009, 10:51 PM
I wonder if a division rival will consider bringing him in to see what info they can get out of them in regards to our draft plans?

Well, with the current major upheavals, I'd say a lot of those draft plans might have been thrown out the window anyway. :shocked:

Davii
02-12-2009, 10:53 PM
Sounds like a power play. Wasn't it just a few weeks ago when they were saying that there would be a ton of cooperation between the Goodman's and McDaniels but that McDainels had final say etc?

Sounds like they had some serious differences in the players and/or philosophy...

I have a bad feeling....

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 10:55 PM
Sounds like a power play. Wasn't it just a few weeks ago when they were saying that there would be a ton of cooperation between the Goodman's and McDaniels but that McDainels had final say etc?

Sounds like they had some serious differences in the players and/or philosophy...

I have a bad feeling....

Well, Davii, per Buff, McDaniels couldn't understand Goodman Sr.'s dialect, so that is how the communication broke down.

Buff
02-12-2009, 10:55 PM
I hate quoting myself, but I want to repeat that I feel that Bowlen screwed the pooch. It is not whether he should or should not have fired the Goodmans after giving them a promotion. The mistake was in his timing.

If McKid or Bowlen disagreed with their decissions whichever was in control in the end would make the final decission. Then, after the draft was over and only then, is the time you fire them. The decission could not have been more ill timed.

This argument doesn't hold up because Xanders has been in place for over a year, so the transition is relatively seamless.

It's not like we're trying to bring in a GM off the streets.

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Well, with the current major upheavals, I'd say a lot of those draft plans might have been thrown out the window anyway. :shocked:

the general direction of the draft is apparent to anyone that has seen this team play the past two years.. Coupled with hiring a 3-4 group of coaches.. I think Even if the Goodman's knew it will not be a surprise to anyone..

BTW one of the reports RMN I think it was talked about Mc Kid and Jeff Goodman not getting along.. and there was a rift there.. can't fire the kid without daddy getting bent out of shape..


Perhaps Jeff was getting to big for his britches.

dogfish
02-12-2009, 10:57 PM
If this is the case, it's to much for a 1st time coach to take on. One of the biggest problems with Shanahan having all the control was that it strung him out to much.

We don't even know if McDaniels is going to be a good head coach, now we're supposed to be ok if he has all the power over the talent?

If Pat wanted a true GM, why didn't he go after Pioli?

Pat said both Mckid and Xman had say and they both reported to him. Even if that be the case, then Pat will have final say. :shocked:

I hope he doesn't turn into Al Davis or Jerry Jones...


agreed on pretty much all points. . . .

Davii
02-12-2009, 10:59 PM
Well, Davii, per Buff, McDaniels couldn't understand Goodman Sr.'s dialect, so that is how the communication broke down.

Ahhhh, does he sound like the assistant coach in Waterboy?

slim
02-12-2009, 10:59 PM
Bizarre...not sure what to think.

Weren't the Goodman's intstrumental in the coaching search?

This is just weird.

fcspikeit
02-12-2009, 10:59 PM
Well, with the current major upheavals, I'd say a lot of those draft plans might have been thrown out the window anyway. :shocked:

If that were the case, why isn't everyone more upset by this? We can't completely start over in regards to scouting, 2 weeks before FA.. How the hell is that supposed to be a good thing?

If the majority of our scouts are still on board then that shouldn't be the case. If Goodman was head of the scouting, he would have a good idea of how our scouts had each player rated.. Assuming Xman and Mckid use the scouting reports of the same scouts who were under Goodman, He would have a vary good idea of who we were looking at.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-12-2009, 10:59 PM
This argument doesn't hold up because Xanders has been in place for over a year, so the transition is relatively seamless.

It's not like we're trying to bring in a GM off the streets.

He was hired on May 8, 08. So, I think the major stuff was mostly done by that time.

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 11:00 PM
Ahhhh, does he sound like the assistant coach in Waterboy?

According to Buff, yes. And has an awful underbite. Basically, anyone south of the mason dixon line that has anything to do with football is Slingblade.

Hobe
02-12-2009, 11:02 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/bogus,story,,,45 (http://www.benverbroncos.com/bogus,story,,,45)


Broncos Name Effenanski General Custodian
DenverBroncos.com

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Denver Broncos President and CEO Pat Bowlen on Thursday announced the appointment of Eithal Effenanski as General Custodian for the National Football League team, effective immediately.

Bowlen said, "In evaluating the restrooms and locker rooms at Dove Valley over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that a clean sweep was needed."

Bowlen also announced that Mags Oberdorf have been dismissed from the organization. Oberdorf has been General Custodian with the Broncos for two seasons. She was known for her “Killer” nails and constant gum chewing. When asked about the change Head Coach Josh McDaniels said, “we just didn’t see how you could have such great nails and be doing a great job on the toilets and urinals at the same time.”

Effenanski will join the Broncos immediately. She will be in charge of cleaning the restrooms and locker room at Dove Valley. When asked about her new appointment Effenanski said, “I am very excited about this new opportunity and thankful to Mr. Bowlen. I am looking forward to meet some real man!”

Effenanski was expelled from Cheer Creek High School after have to be forcibly removed from the boy’s locker room after a football scrimmage in 1998. In 2001, the year the Avalanche won the Stanley Cup, Effenanski was responsible for cleaning the Zamboni machine, but was released after being found trying to improve team Captain Joe Sakic's performance.Ah...sorry. Couldn't help it. Continue with the discussion. ;)

slim
02-12-2009, 11:02 PM
According to Buff, yes. And has an awful underbite. Basically, anyone south of the mason dixon line that has anything to do with football is Slingblade.

His theory crosses over to politcs as well...fyi.

omac
02-12-2009, 11:02 PM
I was surprised also, but the Goodmans track record has been good on one side of the ball only. Other than Wegeman, what free agents have they hit the jackpot with? Most of the FA's have been busts also. Having this happen so close to the FA signing period, it makes me wonder if the FO wasn't divided on who to sign and who not to.

As far as the timing goes, most of the evaluations have been done and turned in, with both the draft and FA. Some teams put more emphasis on the combine than others. We might get an idea of how much the Broncos place on it after this draft is over. As far as I've heard, the scouts are still in place.

Criticize Bowlen all you want, but he has taken back controll of his team. He has a GM and a coach in place, and no more of this GM by comittee crap. Too many chefs spoil the soup. It may go good and it may go bad, but how about giving it a chance before you all write this off as complete failure?

Can we rename this as thread as "The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!" thread?

Great post! :salute:

Not sure if Stokley and Graham were part of the Goodmans doing, but if they were, those were solid acquisitions. So many clutch 3rd down and TD catches, as well as helping keep Jay upright in '07 when our OL was terrible. I thought Winborn was a good pickup. Woodyard was a productive ufa.

No matter, Wiegmann was a great, great, great (and cheap) pickup; thanks Chiefs. :D

Not sure everyone feels the sky is falling though; we're almost all set on offense anyway, barring taking a solid RB, and our defense can't get any worse than it's been the last 2 seasons.

Buff
02-12-2009, 11:09 PM
His theory crosses over to politcs as well...fyi.

Yeah, and all people from arizona are ignorant fat asses.

slim
02-12-2009, 11:10 PM
Yeah, and all people from arizona are ignorant fat asses.

Have you checked your stash lately? I think Bowlen my have found it and toked up...hippie.

omac
02-12-2009, 11:11 PM
the general direction of the draft is apparent to anyone that has seen this team play the past two years.. Coupled with hiring a 3-4 group of coaches.. I think Even if the Goodman's knew it will not be a surprise to anyone..

BTW one of the reports RMN I think it was talked about Mc Kid and Jeff Goodman not getting along.. and there was a rift there.. can't fire the kid without daddy getting bent out of shape..


Perhaps Jeff was getting to big for his britches.

I didn't know about that, but I was thinking that. If that's true, then I think Pats doing the right thing. It'll be tough enough for a very young, first time head coach to survive in the NFL without the internal conflicts. Might as well allow him to do the job the best he can ... Al, you listening? :D

Buff
02-12-2009, 11:14 PM
He was hired on May 8, 08. So, I think the major stuff was mostly done by that time.

Well, I don't think dean was arguing that it's an issue of experience... I think he was saying the organization needs to have all of its scouting and film study and free agency strategy mapped out way in advance...

Which I think they still do. It was addition by subtraction.

omac
02-12-2009, 11:14 PM
Yeah, but I don't see A.J. Smith in Xanders...and I don't think Bowlen wants Xanders to be an A.J. Smith-type...he wants the GM-types we've had before.

Oh no, another Sundquist. over 20 glasses of Sundquist.

weazel
02-12-2009, 11:16 PM
Doesn't seem like there is a well thought out plan going on. Maybe Bowlen is going crazy like Al.

holy crap, I was going to post the same thing...:beer:

Lonestar
02-12-2009, 11:20 PM
Well, Davii, per Buff, McDaniels couldn't understand Goodman Sr.'s dialect, so that is how the communication broke down.


goodmans don't speak Yankee

slim
02-12-2009, 11:23 PM
goodmans don't speak Yankee

Well, Xanders spent 14 years in ATL....I bet he has a bit of a twang.

broncosinindy
02-12-2009, 11:27 PM
The funny part, though, is that even with Shanahan, most of the players we targeted at the Senior Bowl we never drafted. We ignored Cutler.

Everyone talks at these things coaches, scouts what not. Jeff Fisher talked to shanny about Cutler. It is well known some teams share info on players so they dont have to be known to be looking at a certain player.

Denver Native (Carol)
02-12-2009, 11:31 PM
Interesting discussion between Vic Lombardi and Gary Miller

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/Xanders.broncos.goodman.2.934120.html

BeefStew25
02-12-2009, 11:34 PM
Vic Lombardi is an absolute teste.

broncosinindy
02-12-2009, 11:44 PM
It's official pat has morphed into jerry jones.

lol but seriously

It should be interesting to see what players we bring in this FA and Draft.

MOtorboat
02-12-2009, 11:47 PM
It's official pat has morphed into jerry jones

Um...no. He hasn't.

If he was Jerry Jones, he'd be on the radio every other day spouting his mouth and trying to get on ESPN.

Dean
02-12-2009, 11:51 PM
I was surprised also, but the Goodmans track record has been good on one side of the ball only. Other than Wegeman, what free agents have they hit the jackpot with? Most of the FA's have been busts also. Having this happen so close to the FA signing period, it makes me wonder if the FO wasn't divided on who to sign and who not to.

As far as the timing goes, most of the evaluations have been done and turned in, with both the draft and FA. Some teams put more emphasis on the combine than others. We might get an idea of how much the Broncos place on it after this draft is over. As far as I've heard, the scouts are still in place.

Criticize Bowlen all you want, but he has taken back controll of his team. He has a GM and a coach in place, and no more of this GM by comittee crap. Too many chefs spoil the soup. It may go good and it may go bad, but how about giving it a chance before you all write this off as complete failure?

Can we rename this as thread as "The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!" thread?


Stop and think of the teams where the owner "took control"- Washington, Dallas, and Oakland. How have those worked out?

I am not saying that Bowlen will go that far but he has taken some big steps the last two months. Though it is the owner's money, I fail to see how that gives him the football acumen to be in complete control. :coffee:

The sky has not fallen but today it looks darker and more forbidding than it did yesterday.

Lonestar
02-13-2009, 12:04 AM
Stop and think of the teams where the owner "took control"- Washington, Dallas, and Oakland. How have those worked out?

I am not saying that Bowlen will go that far but he has taken some big steps the last two months. Though it is the owner's money, I fail to see how that gives him the football acumen to be in complete control. :coffee:

The sky has not fallen but today it looks darker and more forbidding than it did yesterday.

he is in totally control and will mediate difference in opinion between the two folks he put in charge.. Mc Kid and Xman when they can;t come to a rational decision..

other than that he wants to know is money will not be flushed down the toilet like it has been for almost a decade in FA acquisitions..

Superchop 7
02-13-2009, 12:50 AM
I am trying to be rationale and see both sides.....

With that said............

This was "Al Davis" stupid.

We spent years waiting for good drafts.....

Then we start getting them.....

So we fire the guys responsible for the good drafts.

This has Pats ego written all over it.

Again.

I refuse to go to a game next year, I support a team, not an owner.

Shazam!
02-13-2009, 12:51 AM
"I want Mike to have total control of our football operations. That's what I want him to do."-Pat Bowlen, January 1995, Press Conference introducing Mike Shanahan

Seems like this all over again. McDaniels will have almost complete authority.

honz
02-13-2009, 03:30 AM
I've never understood why everyone was so in love with the Goodmans...they were a part of building this "-efense" too.

dogfish
02-13-2009, 04:06 AM
I've never understood why everyone was so in love with the Goodmans...they were a part of building this "-efense" too.


they were, but look what they were given to work with. . . they started with pretty much the same building blocks we have now, champ bailey and DJ williams. . . which just shows you where the real blame goes-- back to shanahan, who neglected the D (line in particular!) for FAR too long. . . the only first day picks they got to spend on that side of the ball were the two in '07, and reports in the post and RMN at the time indicated that jim bates had a big influence on those picks. . . and even if they were solely on the goodmans, two top picks (who are still young at a position that usually takes time to develop) really just isn't a big enough sample size to say that they weren't good at drafting defense. . .

IMO, producing guys like elvis dumervil and marcus thomas with second day picks isn't bad, and larsen, barrett and woodyard were all very good values just on potential vs. investment. . .

and just as importantly, they really didn't have much to work with in free agency-- name one big contract we've doled out for a defender on their watch! sam adams and simeon rice were more bates picks by all accounts. . . and it's not like you're going to go out and find top defenders for 7 mil contracts like what we gave niko. . . marlon mccree, marquand manuel. . . well, pay for journeyman scrubs, and that's probably what you're going to get-- and i'd say winborn played pretty well overall for a backup type on a cheap deal. . . if they picked boss they have to answer for it :tsk:, but i suppose everyone should be allowed a few mistakes. . . hell, belichik signed off on deltha o'neal!

:laugh:


i myself was really looking forward to seeing what they could do with some actual ammo to use on that side of the ball this year. . . naturally i'm still hopeful, and there's no reason we can't succeed without them, but i must say i don't have quite the same confidence approachig the draft that i did a few days ago. . . it's sure nice to have guys running your draft that can consistently find the likes of marshall, doom, kuper, hixon, thomas, hillis, lichtensteiger, and barrett in the 4th round and later. . . that is an awfully impressive list of late round quality in just three years, and given that they also smashed the ball out of the park by helping us find cornerstones like cutty, clady and royal, it's very tough for me to feel like we made our franchise better by getting rid of them. . .

and to me, that's the thing. . . was this purely a football decision? i don't see how it could have been. . . canning guys like sundquist and slowick makes mad sense, but it sure doesn't look to me like letting these guys get away (hell, even if they can only work real magic on one side of the ball) improves our chances of fielding a winning team. . . to me, it smakcs of politics or financial concerns, which i really don't think is the most sound basis for making these types of decisions. . . i understand that bowlen pays the checks, wants to secure his profits and call the shots, but that doesn't mean that as a fan who's only concerned with the performance of the team between the lines i have to like everything he does. . . obviously we'll see in the long term, but ATM this sure has the feel of a mistake to me. . .

Northman
02-13-2009, 06:38 AM
It's not like we fired Scott Piolo and hired Matt Millen here guys. My brother in law is a huge falcons fan and knows a little something about Xanders and has a high opinion about the guy. And we don't know who gets credit for good drafts we have had or who gets the blame for the bad defences we have had. Bowlen clearly wants the franchise to be fresh, new gm at the same time we get a new coach to get some chemistry going. I think until Xanders gives Nate Webster a 14 million dollar a year contract we should give him a chance.

He'll get his chance but why fix something when its not broke. The Goodman's were doing a fine job, there really was no reason to go fresh at that spot considering that Shanny pretty much had the last word but they were improving their drafts. Sorry, the move doesnt make any sense at this point.

Dirk
02-13-2009, 07:34 AM
Not worried at all. I always thought that the Goodmans were ok..but not as gifted as some might think.

You gotta remember that Shanny RULED the roost! It was always Shanny that got who/what and when...

Having Xman step up and getting rid of the Goodmans may be a really good thing for operations.

Northman
02-13-2009, 07:40 AM
Not worried at all. I always thought that the Goodmans were ok..but not as gifted as some might think.

You gotta remember that Shanny RULED the roost! It was always Shanny that got who/what and when...

Having Xman step up and getting rid of the Goodmans may be a really good thing for operations.

With that said how do we know that Xman is better than the Goodmans?

Nomad
02-13-2009, 07:41 AM
Unless of course there was a difference of opinion regarding the direction of the draft and Free Agency that was not realized until now. Not everything is black and white and we don't know what really goes down in the board rooms. I'm sure Pat has his reasons.

Don't try to make sense of the situation! Fans know more of what goes on in the board room than the front office itself. I find it funny how the same people won't criticize Cutler for his play but will throw Mcdaniels under the bus before his first draft, hell before he's even coached his first game. All we know is Goodman told Bowlen to **** off about something and Bowlen said you and your son are out of here. Then again it's better to beat this to death and be negative!!

Northman
02-13-2009, 07:44 AM
Don't try to make sense of the situation! Fans know more of what goes on in the board room than the front office itself. I find it funny how the same people won't criticize Cutler for his play but will throw Mcdaniels under the bus before his first draft, hell before he's even coached his first game. All we know is Goodman told Bowlen to **** off about something and Bowlen said you and your son are out of here. Then again it's better to beat this to death and be negative!!


So nobody else know's what goes on in the board room but you? :lol:

Dirk
02-13-2009, 07:47 AM
With that said how do we know that Xman is better than the Goodmans?

We don't at this point. That's why I said it MAY be a really good thing.

All we can do is sit back and wait and see.

We can speculate on what went on between the Goodmans and Bowlen, but the bottom line is that Pat said he wanted the team to go in a different direction and it definately is. :lol:

I am still pumped for the up coming season. I won't get too frazzled about it unless through FA and the Draft they don't fix the Defense. :shocked:

Nomad
02-13-2009, 07:48 AM
So nobody else know's what goes on in the board room but you? :lol:

I thought you and some others around here were the know-it-alls and could run football operations. ;) BTW, i never claimed to know anything but I'm not going to throw someone under the bus before they've tried!

Northman
02-13-2009, 07:51 AM
I thought you and some others around here were the know-it-alls and could run football operations. ;)

Where have i claimed that? Please post some examples. I simply stated that if something isnt broke why fix it? The Goodman's have done a great job the last couple of years.

Northman
02-13-2009, 07:52 AM
BTW, i never claimed to know anything but I'm not going to throw someone under the bus before they've tried!

Oh really? Sweet. So if Xman and McDaniels fail on their first draft you going to crucify them like you do Jay? :lol::lol:

Dean
02-13-2009, 07:54 AM
I don't agree with Kizla often, but I do in this case. The move reeks of Al Davis.


Friday, February 13, 2009


Kiszla: Bowlen says goodbye to old guard
By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Posted: 02/13/2009 12:30:00 AM MST


Pat Bowlen has owned the Broncos for more than 25 years. But how much football does he really know?

Hang on. We're about to find out.

Since the Broncos ended their NFL season in frustration, Bowlen has fired the brains of the operation, showing senior football executive Jim Goodman the door Thursday, barely six weeks after firing coach Mike Shanahan.

Has Bowlen lost his mind?

Or is his franchise now more interested in pinching pennies than pursuing Super Bowl rings?

Here's a scary thought: The Broncos now go headlong into an uncertain future, riding on training wheels.

New coach Josh McDaniels is 32 years old. New general manager Brian Xanders is 37. By all accounts, they are bright, young football minds.

Both McDaniels and Xanders, however, are rookies in high- pressure, high-profile positions. The NFL is a tough place to get on-the-job training.

This new football regime is off to a rocky start.

The vacuum of power left by Shanahan apparently begat infighting between young Jeff Goodman and Xanders, who spent last season with the identical titles of assistant general manager.

It's a spat that stinks of testosterone.

Boys, boys, boys.

Bowlen was forced to choose.

When he picked Xanders, Denver lost the well-regarded father-and-son team of Jim and Jeff Goodman, whose success in recent drafts built a foundation of promising talent that includes quarterback Jay Cutler, receiver Brandon Marshall and offensive tackle Ryan Clady.

Sorry, but this sounds like a mess the Raiders would make.

If the Broncos, long known as one of the most stable franchises in professional sports, become any more dysfunctional, maybe the next payroll expenditure by Bowlen will have to be for an intervention by Dr. Phil.

In all the loud rearranging of furniture at Dove Valley executive offices, maybe the Broncos should take down that draft board and purchase a shrink's couch.

Motivated to wrestle back control of his franchise from the all-encompassing power of Shanahan, Bowlen can only point the finger of responsibility in his own chest for the upheaval created when he took the unusual tack of hiring a coach before conclusively settling on how the Broncos would make difficult personnel decisions for a team that has missed the playoffs in three consecutive seasons.

Denver has tough decisions to ponder. The Broncos must decide whether to retain or break ties with veteran players such as linebacker Nate Webster, defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson and cornerback Dre Bly, plus do thorough evaluation of draft prospects that must weigh the need for defensive help against the need for a reliable, workhorse running back. It all will now fall in the lap of Xanders, whose background included 14 years with the Atlanta Falcons.

In these uncertain economic times, even the vastly popular NFL is not immune from budgetary worries. And by NFL standards, nobody would consider Denver ownership as filthy rich.

Bowlen said he wanted to streamline the way his franchise conducted business.

If the Broncos could not afford to keep the Goodmans in the front office, should we count on the team making a big-money play for a big-ticket free agent such as Carolina Panthers defensive lineman Julius Peppers?

Let it be duly noted: Bowlen is the owner who has given a city of Broncomaniacs the most glorious moments in the history of a truly beloved franchise. It has been a good run.

During the past 25 years, however, the Broncos have never appeared more uncertain of what they want or where they are going.

Now there is no wise, old head that Bowlen can ask for directions.

TXBRONC
02-13-2009, 07:56 AM
Touche...but how the SEC's leading tackler goes undrafted is a mystery in and of itself.

I would guess it has a lot to do with the fact he played at Kentucky.

Nomad
02-13-2009, 07:57 AM
Where have i claimed that? Please post some examples. I simply stated that if something isnt broke why fix it? The Goodman's have done a great job the last couple of years.

I'm not going to make this between me and you but you came at me first! I stated fans in general not Northman! I've never claimed the Goodmans didn't do a good job or bad job, but I was agreeing with smilin7.

broncofaninfla
02-13-2009, 07:57 AM
Horrible move by Bowlen. He has gone too far in proving he is in charge. I just lost the optimism I had for this season.

Northman
02-13-2009, 07:58 AM
I'm not going to make this between me and you but you came at me first! I stated fans in general not Northman! I've never claimed the Goodmans didn't do a good job or bad job, but I was agreeing with smilin7.

You mean i asked you a question after you made a generalization? Yep, sure did.

gobroncsnv
02-13-2009, 08:02 AM
Have to say it again... sometimes, having a buttload of tackles just means your defense can't get the other team off the field...

Dirk
02-13-2009, 08:03 AM
I don't agree with Kizla often, but I do in this case. The move reeks of Al Davis.

In reading that article, Kiz sounded like a "sky is falling" "man the life boats" type of person.

No one is going to know what this will mean on the field until next year.

I'm still optimistic! :cool:

Nomad
02-13-2009, 08:04 AM
Oh really? Sweet. So if Xman and McDaniels fail on their first draft you going to crucify them like you do Jay? :lol::lol:

Where did I say that, I'll leave that up to you know-it-alls to disect the fo and coaching staff!!! As for as Cutler, no one has nailed him to the cross and there's another thread discussing this.

TXBRONC
02-13-2009, 08:05 AM
Sounds like a power play. Wasn't it just a few weeks ago when they were saying that there would be a ton of cooperation between the Goodman's and McDaniels but that McDainels had final say etc?

Sounds like they had some serious differences in the players and/or philosophy...

I have a bad feeling....

I could be wrong but It thought at McDaniels introductory news conference he said that Jim Goodman would have the final say on all personnel matters.

Nomad
02-13-2009, 08:07 AM
My last word on this is, I hope McDaniels, Xanders, and the rest of the BRONCOS good luck and look forward to next season!!!

Den21vsBal19
02-13-2009, 08:10 AM
My last word on this is, I hope McDaniels, Xanders, and the rest of the BRONCOS good luck and look forward to next season!!!
Amen to that!!!!!! :salute:

warcrychief
02-13-2009, 08:12 AM
Im sry but this is hilarious :laugh: How quick Bowlen was to appoint someone to such an important postion. Sounds like something Al or Jerry Jones would do. And will all the disharmony going on, with the draft and FA coming out. None of that sounds to stable for FA to sign on the dotted line for. SMILE JUST KEEP ON SMILING :D

claymore
02-13-2009, 08:33 AM
Im sry but this is hilarious :laugh: How quick Bowlen was to appoint someone to such an important postion. Sounds like something Al or Jerry Jones would do. And will all the disharmony going on, with the draft and FA coming out. None of that sounds to stable for FA to sign on the dotted line for. SMILE JUST KEEP ON SMILING :D

The only team you should be laughing at is the detroit lions.

Fan in Exile
02-13-2009, 08:37 AM
There are several thoughts I had about this after thinking about it for a night.

1) Xander said that there were unfortunate circumstances involved. I don't know what they were but I am going to assume that Pat took a measured appropriate response to what was done or said, because he's not Al Davis.

2) I don't know how much of the last three drafts the Goodman's were involved in. They get a lot of credit because they were the only part that seemed to change, and we can't credit Mike or Ted.

3) I know that a lot of people are worried abou the time frame. I don't think now was the best time, but given the choice between two weeks of unfortunate circumstances and two weeks of clear direction to get ready for FA I would also choose two weeks of clear direction.

4) At the same time it's not like he's just joining the team now. He's been with us for all of the prep Nolan and McDaniels both are going to have big hand in what we get so we've got a solid foundation going into these two weeks.

5) Klis said that there's no wise old head to ask anymore. I'm okay with that because Bowlen is the wise old head now. He's the one with the years of experience as owner, he's the one who's well respected in football circles. If he's decided that he's going to be in charge than I'm ready to give him the praise and blame that come with that position.

6) I don't think this had anything to do with the coach although posters have drug him into it. I'll wait to see if he acts like Shanahan before pillorying him for it.

7) I'm still looking forward to the draft and free agency, because I don't think it will be any worse than it has been for the past ten years. We've seen the nuts a blind squirrel brings in I'm hoping Xanders/McDaniels and the rest will top that.

Ziggy
02-13-2009, 09:13 AM
Stop and think of the teams where the owner "took control"- Washington, Dallas, and Oakland. How have those worked out?

I am not saying that Bowlen will go that far but he has taken some big steps the last two months. Though it is the owner's money, I fail to see how that gives him the football acumen to be in complete control. :coffee:

The sky has not fallen but today it looks darker and more forbidding than it did yesterday.

I noticed that you left New England and Pittsburgh off of that list. How have those worked out?

LRtagger
02-13-2009, 09:38 AM
I feel like I am in the twilight zone...I hope this doesnt turn into a Shannahan/Sundquist situation which sure is what if feels like to me.

broncofaninfla
02-13-2009, 09:43 AM
With all of the changes, I'm afraid things will get worse before they get better. Too many new people with too many scheme changes. Add that to our schedule next season and things don't look good.

BroncoJoe
02-13-2009, 09:53 AM
Eh, other teams have done what Bowlen has done and been successful. We have the pieces needed on offense. Defense can be fixed with some key acquisitions, be it free agency or the draft.

I'll worry when it's time to worry.

Ziggy
02-13-2009, 09:56 AM
With all of the changes, I'm afraid things will get worse before they get better. Too many new people with too many scheme changes. Add that to our schedule next season and things don't look good.

Things didn't look good before this move. This is a team that needs 8 new starters on defense, and are starting over with new offensive and defensive schemes. The only advantage the Broncos have this year is that they get to play the Raiders and Chiefs twice each. Did people really think that things were going to get fixed in 1 year? It's possible, but highly unlikely.

People are going to point to the Dolphins and Falcons, but they kept thier defensive schemes from the year before, despite new coaches, and had a lot more talent on D than Denver had last year.

broncofaninfla
02-13-2009, 10:13 AM
Things didn't look good before this move. This is a team that needs 8 new starters on defense, and are starting over with new offensive and defensive schemes. The only advantage the Broncos have this year is that they get to play the Raiders and Chiefs twice each. Did people really think that things were going to get fixed in 1 year? It's possible, but highly unlikely.

People are going to point to the Dolphins and Falcons, but they kept thier defensive schemes from the year before, despite new coaches, and had a lot more talent on D than Denver had last year.

I had faith in the Goodmans though, loved the direction we were going with the young guys they drafted.

Ziggy
02-13-2009, 11:40 AM
I had faith in the Goodmans though, loved the direction we were going with the young guys they drafted.

We were going in the right direction on offense only. Our defense has deteriorated to the point of being the worst in the NFL over the last 2 seasons. Statistically, they were only 28th or so, but if you add in the fact that we had a very good offense, they were the worst. You can't win in this league without D.

broncofaninfla
02-13-2009, 12:29 PM
We were going in the right direction on offense only. Our defense has deteriorated to the point of being the worst in the NFL over the last 2 seasons. Statistically, they were only 28th or so, but if you add in the fact that we had a very good offense, they were the worst. You can't win in this league without D.


I agree, we need a defense BAD but my thinking was Shanny put way more emphasis on the offense than the defense. From the outside looking in, the Goodmans seem to have a knack for finding talent and I was hoping they could focus heavily on the defense this season and turn this team around.
Going to be an interesting season, I have NO idea what to expect with all of the recent changes.

fcspikeit
02-13-2009, 01:21 PM
Don't try to make sense of the situation! Fans know more of what goes on in the board room than the front office itself. I find it funny how the same people won't criticize Cutler for his play but will throw Mcdaniels under the bus before his first draft, hell before he's even coached his first game. All we know is Goodman told Bowlen to **** off about something and Bowlen said you and your son are out of here. Then again it's better to beat this to death and be negative!!

Overreact much?

No one is throwing Mckid under the bus! People are just trying to find the logic in this move. Now there is a bigger question mark going into FA and the draft..

No one is saying we will draft bad or Xman wont be a good GM, but no one really knows? We knew what we would get from the Goodmans and most of us thought that was a lot. We are questioning the firings because we don't know if Xman and Mckid, will be able to do as good a job as the Goodman's did, in the draft...

If they were fired because they weren't doing their job that's one thing, if they were fired because the ego's in dove valley couldn't get along and we end up in a worse situation, is completely another thing.

Most are simply asking the question, why were they fired?

Northman
02-13-2009, 01:24 PM
Overreact much?

No one is throwing Mckid under the bus! People are just trying to find the logic in this move. Now there is a bigger question mark going into FA and the draft..

No one is saying we will draft bad or Xman wont be a good GM, but knowone really knows? We knew what we would get from the Goodmans and most of us thought that was a lot. We are questioning the firings because we don't know if Xman and Mckid, will be able to do as good a job as the Goodman's did, in the draft...

If they weren't fired because they weren't doing their job that's one thing, if they were fired because the ego's in dove valley couldn't get along and we end up in a worse situation, is completely another thing.

Most are simply asking the question, why were they fired?


Dont waste your breath, just do what i did and put him on ignore. Save yourself headache. :tsk:

fcspikeit
02-13-2009, 02:00 PM
Dont waste your breath, just do what i did and put him on ignore. Save yourself headache. :tsk:

How exactly does that work? You could see that I responded to him but you couldn't see what he wrote?

I thought while on ignore nothing came up, even when they are quoted?

As long as I am running the pick'em league, that wouldn't work for me. I can't ignore people otherwise I would have no idea what their picks were or if they even made picks..I'm not sure I would use ignore anyways, but thanks for the suggestion :salute:

elsid13
02-13-2009, 02:04 PM
I noticed that you left New England and Pittsburgh off of that list. How have those worked out?

Kraft is very hands off and allow Belicheat to run the operation. And the Rooneys while a little more involved also allow the football folks the final say on things.

Northman
02-13-2009, 02:04 PM
How exactly does that work? You could see that I responded to him but you couldn't see what he wrote?

I thought while on ignore nothing came up, even when they are quoted?

As long as I am running the pick'em league, that wouldn't work for me. I can't ignore people otherwise I would have no idea what their picks were or if they even made picks..I'm not sure I would use ignore anyways, but thanks for the suggestion :salute:

Well, like now that i have him on ignore i cant see any of his posts. But, should someone quote him i could. Now, if he is in your pickem league that could pose a problem. I had to check the Mock draft to make sure he wasnt in there otherwise i would have had to take him off so i could see his posts in that. But, from what i can tell he doesnt really bring anything of importance (IMO) to the forum in general so i have the luxury of just tuning his BS out. Others who may or may not agree with him either have better arguements, are in the Mock Draft, or are far more respected by me on this forum and thus why they arent on the ignore list. I just dont know how much he plays a part in what ever league you have. But, it is a beautiful feature although i should of used it beforehand. :lol:

rcsodak
02-13-2009, 02:22 PM
wow...haven't seen hotcarl around in a while...and never missed it.

The 'report post' button sometimes DOES work wonders. :elefant:

rcsodak
02-13-2009, 02:24 PM
Read Bowlen's first two sentences:

"In evaluating the work of our football operations department over the past several weeks, it has become clear to me that Brian Xanders is the right person to step into our general manager’s job. I am confident he will work in tandem with Head Coach Josh McDaniels to re-establish our football team at the level we desire."

Reading between the lines, I'd guess Xanders and McDaniels hit it off while McDaniels and the Goodmans perhaps did not. :coffee:

Well, it could be since they were brought in by Shanny, that they were having a hard time adjusting to McD and the new regime.

I'm sure they'll land on their feet. Isn't Houston looking for FO people?

rcsodak
02-13-2009, 02:29 PM
What exactly does that prove? :confused:

People have that opinion because they approve of what he has done. As soon as they no longer approve of his decisions, Opinions can change..

If their opinions aren't based off his decisions, what grounds would they have to even make a comment like that?

If your going to regard the opinions of the people that said, "he's one of, if not THE, best owner in the league", why wouldn't you also respect the same people if they said he made a bad decision? :confused:

This is all about your agreement with those who said he was one of the best owners in the league..

Who on here, BY NAME, actually knows that he made a "bad decision"?

What I'm saying, is over the course of his ownership, which means more than "in one month's time", people on this board, and on others, and in the media, and in the league, have said "he's one of, if not THE, best owners in the league".

You don't grade by a single action, but over a period of time....taking into account, certain trends. Otherwise, you get the yo-yo effect, which is futile and useless.

Traveler
02-13-2009, 03:27 PM
Though Xanders does have experience in player evaluation, Bowlen said he expects to hire someone else — likely someone with prior connections to either Xanders or McDaniels — to be in charge of scouting.

If no one has done so in earlier pages of this thread, did anyone notice the above quote from the DP article?

Maybe Bowlen plans to add one more piece to the puzzle which makes more sense.

fcspikeit
02-13-2009, 03:33 PM
Well, it could be since they were brought in by Shanny, that they were having a hard time adjusting to McD and the new regime.

I'm sure they'll land on their feet. Isn't Houston looking for FO people?

Maybe, but Xanders was also brought in by Shanahan..

dogfish
02-13-2009, 03:36 PM
Overreact much?

No one is throwing Mckid under the bus! People are just trying to find the logic in this move. Now there is a bigger question mark going into FA and the draft..

No one is saying we will draft bad or Xman wont be a good GM, but no one really knows? We knew what we would get from the Goodmans and most of us thought that was a lot. We are questioning the firings because we don't know if Xman and Mckid, will be able to do as good a job as the Goodman's did, in the draft...

If they were fired because they weren't doing their job that's one thing, if they were fired because the ego's in dove valley couldn't get along and we end up in a worse situation, is completely another thing.

Most are simply asking the question, why were they fired?

amen, spike!

not to single anyone out, but i get so tired of the mentality a certain group of people has around here, that you should NEVER question anything the organization does. . . fug dat, that's ridiculous-- i'm not a damn sheep!

admittedly, some people do go overboard with the negativity, but just because you question a move doesn't mean that you're a chicken little-- whether those folks believe it or not, there IS such a thing as using your eyes, your brain and all available information to try to make a rational analysis of a situation. . . just because we're discussing something the organization did (this is a discussion baord last time i checked) doesn't mean that we need somebody always coming along and telling us "you don't know it's a bad thing, wait and see what happens". . . so we should only discuss moves in retrospect?

bowlen isn't infallible, stop acting like he is! maybe we need a seperate orange glasses forum here like over on mania, so the pom-pom wavers can have a place to "discuss" the team's moves without having to encounter any semblance of criticism or concern, and the rest of us can have a place to hash things out without having to hear "the sky is falling" any time we have the audacity to ask a question or make a comment that can be construed as less than fully complimentary regarding any action taken by the team. . . .

:coffee:



Kraft is very hands off and allow Belicheat to run the operation. And the Rooneys while a little more involved also allow the football folks the final say on things.

exactly! they may be active owners, but they have top football minds in place and they leave the football decisions to them. . . . pioli and bellyache have been running the show in NE, and kevin colbert makes the personnel decisions in pittsburgh-- probably with a big assist from guys like hoak and lebeau. . . if dan rooney actually works on the team's draft board the way davis and jones do, i've certainly never heard about it. . . .

fcspikeit
02-13-2009, 03:40 PM
Who on here, BY NAME, actually knows that he made a "bad decision"?

What I'm saying, is over the course of his ownership, which means more than "in one month's time", people on this board, and on others, and in the media, and in the league, have said "he's one of, if not THE, best owners in the league".

You don't grade by a single action, but over a period of time....taking into account, certain trends. Otherwise, you get the yo-yo effect, which is futile and useless.

Agreed, that comes across different then your previous post.

It sounded like you were trying to use people's own statements against them.
Those who thought it was a good move to dump Shanahan made that claim based off of their own opinion of Shanahan. The people who thought it was a bad move to dump the Goodmans did so based off of their opinions of the Goodmans.

Neither move has shown rather it was a good move or not. Therefore, both opinions could be questioned, The only reason one would question one and not the other is dependent on their shared opinion of one and not the other.

TXBRONC
02-13-2009, 04:14 PM
We're never going to know for sure why Bowlen fired the Goodmans. However that doesn't mean we can't wonder aloud why it happened.

Lonestar
02-13-2009, 04:28 PM
I had faith in the Goodmans though, loved the direction we were going with the young guys they drafted.


We only Know tat during their time here the scouting was better.. while they may have been heavy into that and MAYBE mikey listened to them I think everyone here KNOWS that mikey did it his way..

Goodman scouted Jay but so did Jeff Fischer and Mikey was rumored to talk to him before making the choice..

They also scouted Scheffler and Marshall and a few others.. But they also were there for crowder, Thomas and moss. Where I think Bates was heavily involved..

Right now other than the combine the scouting for this year is DONE.. If no one goes to the to it and evaluates them then we have an issue and typically it is Head, Position coaches and GM that go to it.. Unless I did not get the memo we have all of them.. As for th senior bowl I;m sure those reports have all been filed as well as any video tapes of workouts and game itself..

Unless goodmans were actually making those choices in 2006-08 Which we all know did not happen.. We are now going to have Mc Kid, Xander and Pat making those picks.. which we would have had more or less if the goodmans would have stayed.. In years past they were SCOUTS only and they have done that this year....

Lonestar
02-13-2009, 04:30 PM
Kraft is very hands off and allow Belicheat to run the operation. And the Rooneys while a little more involved also allow the football folks the final say on things.

I'm also guessing that because of the tenure of those coaches that the owners stayed out of it But what about when they first came to town.. I;d guess the owners were a little more hands on..

omac
02-13-2009, 06:09 PM
We were going in the right direction on offense only. Our defense has deteriorated to the point of being the worst in the NFL over the last 2 seasons. Statistically, they were only 28th or so, but if you add in the fact that we had a very good offense, they were the worst. You can't win in this league without D.

That might have something to do with the input they got from our former defensive coordinators.

Jim Bates really wanted the tall, speedy rusher to implement his defense, so they reached for Moss. With Slowick, it seems like they wanted to get some quality people to back up the current veterans at good value, and they did.

Who knows what they could've accomplished working with Mike Nolan?

As some posters have mentioned, our coaches on defense couldn't seem to properly develop the players we had, so maybe they were part of the problem.

No matter, now it will be primarily Doogie and Nolan who will get players, which might not be a bad thing.

NameUsedBefore
02-13-2009, 06:24 PM
I think we'll be dropping a lot of our d-line come draft day. I still don't know what to make of this move, but I think that might be a result of it.

broncosinindy
02-13-2009, 08:38 PM
Um...no. He hasn't.

If he was Jerry Jones, he'd be on the radio every other day spouting his mouth and trying to get on ESPN.

Did you miss where i said but seriously.... as in HAHAH

56crash
02-13-2009, 10:47 PM
what the bloody ******* hell is going on at dove valley? doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me to promote them and then fire them weeks later-- IMO something more than what's being reported must have happened, because this is a shocking change of course just weeks before the start of free agency. . . xanders must have some especially racy naked pics-- i hope to god he's a truly qualified football guy, not just a yes man who can crunch numbers and tell bowlen what he wants to hear. . .



:tsk:

pats going though the change of life...

warcrychief
02-14-2009, 02:31 AM
The only team you should be laughing at is the detroit lions.

No...i find that a team that hasnt been to the playoffs in the past 4 years is really funny:laugh:

MOtorboat
02-14-2009, 02:34 AM
No...i find that a team that hasnt been to the playoffs in the past 4 years is really funny:laugh:

How about not winning a playoff game in 16 years...how does this sit?

dogfish
02-14-2009, 02:38 AM
No...i find that a team that hasnt been to the playoffs in the past 4 years is really funny:laugh:



dude. . . . 2-14!



:welcome:

warcrychief
02-14-2009, 02:49 AM
How about not winning a playoff game in 16 years...how does this sit?

it sits better with me when i think of how your team has bent over right at the finsh line these last few years lol :D

MOtorboat
02-14-2009, 02:52 AM
it sits better with me when i think of how your team has bent over right at the finsh line these last few years lol :D

Typical.

And pathetic.

2 Super Bowls, 1 AFC Championship game.

0 Playoff wins.

I'll take the former.

warcrychief
02-14-2009, 02:53 AM
dude. . . . 2-14!



:welcome:

:confused:funny thing is... i think we will get back to the top before you guys do. IMO

warcrychief
02-14-2009, 02:56 AM
Typical.

And pathetic.

2 Super Bowls, 1 AFC Championship game.

0 Playoff wins.

I'll take the former.

but the thing ill never forget about that first SB win is, That well oiled machine of Elways had to use Pam cooking spray to believe to win in the playoffs. Before there was Spygate there was Pamgate lol

Lonestar
02-14-2009, 03:23 AM
:confused:funny thing is... i think we will get back to the top before you guys do. IMO



well there you go thinking again..:salute:

Shazam!
02-14-2009, 03:49 AM
A Chiefs fan talks trash when KC has won 6 games in two years? Hilarious.

Lonestar
02-14-2009, 03:54 AM
A Chiefs fan talks trash when KC has won 6 games in two years? Hilarious.


about the same as a Bronco fan talking trash when their team has not had a winning season for three years..

afterall we had the mastermind to lead us through the rocks and shoals..

Time to one it down smack belongs in another area..

elsid13
02-14-2009, 07:34 AM
I'm also guessing that because of the tenure of those coaches that the owners stayed out of it But what about when they first came to town.. I;d guess the owners were a little more hands on..

Kraft has pretty much always let his football guy run the operatison. And Great Grandfather Rooney was business guy that worked on promoting the team and not football operation. The family followed that tradition.


The age of the modern hands on owner didn't really started until Jerry Jones came to "power". Paul Brown would have been the nearest before, but he was a HoF Head Coach before he owned the Cincy Bungles. His son was also Hands on Owners see the result