PDA

View Full Version : Droy



rcsodak
12-20-2011, 02:21 PM
I know we all want Miller to win it. But right now, i have to believe San Fran's rookie DE has the inside to it.
13 sacks. 4PD. 2 FF.

Plus, miller and his constant rush tends to open up his side to wide open runs. When Haggen filled in, that wasnt a problem. He needs to play the position instead of just rushing wide, imo.

Thoughts?

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

CoachChaz
12-20-2011, 02:29 PM
Smith has turned it on lately. Getting 2.5 sacks last night helped, but he is the definition of pass rush specialist. His sacks equate to one half of his total tackles.

If leading the league in sacks or breaking a record are the precursors for winning the award, then he'll get it...but Miller has shown the better overall play in my opinion.

BroncoNut
12-20-2011, 02:44 PM
so you want Miller to stop being Miller? Nice idea rcs. What happened to you? You're not the same poster

NightTerror218
12-20-2011, 02:44 PM
I know we all want Miller to win it. But right now, i have to believe San Fran's rookie DE has the inside to it.
13 sacks. 4PD. 2 FF.

Plus, miller and his constant rush tends to open up his side to wide open runs. When Haggen filled in, that wasnt a problem. He needs to play the position instead of just rushing wide, imo.

Thoughts?

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Miller has 11/5 sacks, 4 PDs and 2 FF. He has been more of an impact though.

Miller has 63 tacks and SF 9er has 31!!!!!!!!!!

rcsodak
12-20-2011, 02:54 PM
so you want Miller to stop being Miller? Nice idea rcs. What happened to you? You're not the same poster
Why, nut? I'm simply saying he needs to play his position: SLB! Cover the TE/contain against strongside runs, etc.
Did you not see the constant runs at his side? The BIG runs?
I keep seeing him attacking the outside shoulder/or bull rushing the ORT and leaving his side wide open.

The previous week, we all saw Haggen dominate the run game(til he pooped out) and made some tackles for loss.
THATS what i want miller to do.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

rcsodak
12-20-2011, 02:56 PM
Miller has 11/5 sacks, 4 PDs and 2 FF. He has been more of an impact though.

Miller has 63 tacks and SF 9er has 31!!!!!!!!!!

And DE's generally have less tackles than lb's do. But hes also part of a defense that is #1 vs the run and is yet to give up a rush TD. So he plays BOTH rush/pass well.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

BroncoNut
12-20-2011, 02:57 PM
Why, nut? I'm simply saying he needs to play his position: SLB! Cover the TE/contain against strongside runs, etc.
Did you not see the constant runs at his side? The BIG runs?
I keep seeing him attacking the outside shoulder/or bull rushing the ORT and leaving his side wide open.

The previous week, we all saw Haggen dominate the run game(til he pooped out) and made some tackles for loss.
THATS what i want miller to do.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

yeah, you bring up some good points there. didn't notice that. my football acumen is rather paltry. I just notice the sacks. also, I fell asleep during the NE game and missed most of it.

underrated29
12-20-2011, 03:01 PM
Aldon smith comes in as a situational pass rusher. Von, plays the run and the pass and rushes the passer.

Also I do not get it.

I can count at least once per game these last like 3 games Von has had a sack, yet he is still shown at 11.5? Why is that? What is going on there. Are they just forgetting to add these as sacks or what?

He had 2 against brady didnt he? the botched snap where he got tom behind the LOS as he was trying to grab the ball, and then the other where it was a high snap over bradys head or something and Von chased him down....(it was near their goalline when we stopped them on 3rd and long and then let them back in with a stupid penalty on chris harris that he objected to soo much)

CoachChaz
12-20-2011, 03:06 PM
And DE's generally have less tackles than lb's do. But hes also part of a defense that is #1 vs the run and is yet to give up a rush TD. So he plays BOTH rush/pass well.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Smith is solid at containment...just a small portion of run defense. Also keep in mind, he plays standing up about as much as Miller does. the Benefit Smith has is Willis inside and Justin Smith in front of him. I think he's a solid pass rusher and like Miller...he has work to do.

At the end of the day...I really dont care if Miller wins DROY. I care about him being a force to be reckoned with for the next 10 years in Denver. Eventually we'll add pieces and have a better defense as well

CoachChaz
12-20-2011, 03:07 PM
Aldon smith comes in as a situational pass rusher. Von, plays the run and the pass and rushes the passer.

Also I do not get it.

I can count at least once per game these last like 3 games Von has had a sack, yet he is still shown at 11.5? Why is that? What is going on there. Are they just forgetting to add these as sacks or what?

He had 2 against brady didnt he? the botched snap where he got tom behind the LOS as he was trying to grab the ball, and then the other where it was a high snap over bradys head or something and Von chased him down....(it was near their goalline when we stopped them on 3rd and long and then let them back in with a stupid penalty on chris harris that he objected to soo much)

Bad snaps get registered as running plays and therefore it's a TFL

rcsodak
12-20-2011, 03:21 PM
yeah, you bring up some good points there. didn't notice that. my football acumen is rather paltry. I just notice the sacks. also, I fell asleep during the NE game and missed most of it.

Lol. You didnt miss much. ;')

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

rcsodak
12-20-2011, 03:22 PM
Aldon smith comes in as a situational pass rusher. Von, plays the run and the pass and rushes the passer.

Also I do not get it.

I can count at least once per game these last like 3 games Von has had a sack, yet he is still shown at 11.5? Why is that? What is going on there. Are they just forgetting to add these as sacks or what?

He had 2 against brady didnt he? the botched snap where he got tom behind the LOS as he was trying to grab the ball, and then the other where it was a high snap over bradys head or something and Von chased him down....(it was near their goalline when we stopped them on 3rd and long and then let them back in with a stupid penalty on chris harris that he objected to soo much)

I thought he had one....saw his stupid dance. But as rav says.....stats dont lie. ;')

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

rcsodak
12-20-2011, 03:24 PM
Bad snaps get registered as running plays and therefore it's a TFL
So TT should fake bad snaps more often. ;')

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

CoachChaz
12-20-2011, 03:25 PM
So TT should fake bad snaps more often. ;')

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

The OL probably wouldnt mind

rcsodak
12-20-2011, 03:27 PM
The OL probably wouldnt mind
:lol:

Their rankings had to take a large hit. Ugh.

Last i heard, NE's pass rush wasnt much to talk about.

Guess Ditka was right afterall, about beating TT.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

HORSEPOWER 56
12-20-2011, 05:26 PM
Sacks won't be the only stat considered. Sure, Smith just moved ahead of Von in sacks, but he's a situational pass rusher who plays on the #1 defense in the league. If you look at Von's body of work: team leader in sacks, full time starter, 2X the amount of tackles, inferior surrounding talent, and overall impact on each game played, I think they'll go with Von.

If they don't, they suck...

:WARVON: :werd:

dogfish
12-20-2011, 05:55 PM
:lol:

Their rankings had to take a large hit. Ugh.

Last i heard, NE's pass rush wasnt much to talk about.

Guess Ditka was right afterall, about beating TT.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

you get your orton KC jersey yet, rc?

BroncoStud
12-20-2011, 06:04 PM
so you want Miller to stop being Miller? Nice idea rcs. What happened to you? You're not the same poster

Unfortunately he is... :laugh:

Joel
12-21-2011, 01:23 AM
Why, nut? I'm simply saying he needs to play his position: SLB! Cover the TE/contain against strongside runs, etc.
Did you not see the constant runs at his side? The BIG runs?
I keep seeing him attacking the outside shoulder/or bull rushing the ORT and leaving his side wide open.

The previous week, we all saw Haggen dominate the run game(til he pooped out) and made some tackles for loss.
THATS what i want miller to do.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums
He's just not a Sam. That really is the bottom line here; despite gaining 15 lbs. in a year, he should really be heavier to play as a true Sam (he's still only a bagel heavier than DJ now, and how much have people always complained about RBs dragging HIM downfield on tackles?) We're playing Miller, and to a lesser extent Doom, like 3-4 OLBs whose primary job is backfield penetration while a NT and DEs lock down the inside run and ILBs cover passes over the middle. Too bad we don't have a 330 lb. NT and a couple 300 lb. DEs to do their job, and Mays doesn't have the coverage skills to be that kind of ILB.

Seems like there are two obvious logical choices:

1) Go find our Vince Wilfork or Casey Hampton, put McBean and/or Thomas at DE (the former started there last year, with the latter as backup) and run a 3-4 with Miller, Mays, DJ and Doom at LB.

2) Put Haggan in as a devastating run stopping Sam and Miller at Mike.

Option 3 would be to trade our #2 overall pick and likely DROY for a Pro Bowler and a high draft pick, but I'm pretty sure that would cause rioting in the streets. :scared:

Whatever we do, playing at 3 lbs. and 2" more than DJ I can't ever see him being a truly dominating outside run stuffer any more than DJ is, and if we're constantly blitzing him, yes, he will fly by a lot of running plays.

In other words, we have the same problem: The beloved blitzing prevents Miller playing a role we each consider at least as important. The only difference is you're prioritizing a role already in his job description while I'm prioritizing one I want to BECOME his job description. Performing either will lower his sack totals, but I submit that we need a dominating Mike more than we need a dominating Sam, and Miller's built better for that anyway.

shank
12-21-2011, 01:42 AM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/01/stories-of-the-season-miller-much-more-than-the-roy/

rcsodak
12-21-2011, 02:33 AM
you get your orton KC jersey yet, rc?

Why? You have an excess in your closet?:confused:

Davii
12-21-2011, 03:02 AM
No defensive rookie has meant more to their team than Von, none have had the impact Von has, and vert few come close in the stats. Von is the runway favorite at this point for DROY and SHOULD go to the pro bowl in his rookie season.

Agent of Orange
12-21-2011, 09:00 AM
When is his cast coming off? It seems like it's really slowing him down.

TXBRONC
12-21-2011, 09:37 AM
I know we all want Miller to win it. But right now, i have to believe San Fran's rookie DE has the inside to it.
13 sacks. 4PD. 2 FF.

Plus, miller and his constant rush tends to open up his side to wide open runs. When Haggen filled in, that wasnt a problem. He needs to play the position instead of just rushing wide, imo.

Thoughts?

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Apparently you watched an entirely different game than I did because the Vikings did get the edge several times with Haggan filling in Miller.

Jsteve01
12-21-2011, 09:42 AM
He's just not a Sam. That really is the bottom line here; despite gaining 15 lbs. in a year, he should really be heavier to play as a true Sam (he's still only a bagel heavier than DJ now, and how much have people always complained about RBs dragging HIM downfield on tackles?) We're playing Miller, and to a lesser extent Doom, like 3-4 OLBs whose primary job is backfield penetration while a NT and DEs lock down the inside run and ILBs cover passes over the middle. Too bad we don't have a 330 lb. NT and a couple 300 lb. DEs to do their job, and Mays doesn't have the coverage skills to be that kind of ILB.

Seems like there are two obvious logical choices:

1) Go find our Vince Wilfork or Casey Hampton, put McBean and/or Thomas at DE (the former started there last year, with the latter as backup) and run a 3-4 with Miller, Mays, DJ and Doom at LB.

2) Put Haggan in as a devastating run stopping Sam and Miller at Mike.

Option 3 would be to trade our #2 overall pick and likely DROY for a Pro Bowler and a high draft pick, but I'm pretty sure that would cause rioting in the streets. :scared:

Whatever we do, playing at 3 lbs. and 2" more than DJ I can't ever see him being a truly dominating outside run stuffer any more than DJ is, and if we're constantly blitzing him, yes, he will fly by a lot of running plays.

In other words, we have the same problem: The beloved blitzing prevents Miller playing a role we each consider at least as important. The only difference is you're prioritizing a role already in his job description while I'm prioritizing one I want to BECOME his job description. Performing either will lower his sack totals, but I submit that we need a dominating Mike more than we need a dominating Sam, and Miller's built better for that anyway.

That's just not accurate Joel. According to pff's quality stats Miller is the best 4-3 Sam in the league vs the run. We're talking about a rookie who does more moving and has more scheme responsibility than anyone else on this defense. You do realize that out of the top 20 sack leaders in the league Miller is leading in tackles?

Now you want to take away his best asset by moving him to Mike? We've been down this road with DJ. Play a guy to his strengths.

TXBRONC
12-21-2011, 10:13 AM
I know we all want Miller to win it. But right now, i have to believe San Fran's rookie DE has the inside to it.
13 sacks. 4PD. 2 FF.

Plus, miller and his constant rush tends to open up his side to wide open runs. When Haggen filled in, that wasnt a problem. He needs to play the position instead of just rushing wide, imo.

Thoughts?

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Smith's numbers still pale in comparison.

Miller has 50 total tackles 11.5 sacks and has 4 PD, and 2 FF. It's also inaccurate to say he just rushes wide. Just curious, why did you avoid putting up Miller's stats? Also why did you avoid putting up tackles for loss. Miller has 8 and Smith has 1? If all he ever did was rush was rush wide then it's likely it show up in tackles for losses.