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sneakers
02-09-2009, 05:19 AM
It was funny, because the same exact things he did during the regular season he did during the pro-bowl.

What exactly do I mean? How many times did we see Cutler drive the team down the field to give you hope that he finally caught on, and only a series later it seems as if he has no idea? Or when he threw an illadvised pass and tried to make it perfect, only to have it intercepted.

I thought I was seeing deja vu.

Cheez Whiz
02-09-2009, 05:43 AM
Cutler was not use to the pressure.

I think every play a defense player was in Cutler's face. You go from the best Line in football to a a bunch of chumps who really never deserved to go.

sneakers
02-09-2009, 05:48 AM
Cutler was not use to the pressure.

I think every play a defense player was in Cutler's face. You go from the best Line in football to a a bunch of chumps who really never deserved to go.

Defenses could only rush 4 players, and no blitzing. :shocked:

Northman
02-09-2009, 06:02 AM
I still saw a young Qb playing out there.

Bozo Jr.
02-09-2009, 07:14 AM
It was a bit shaky, but the p-bowl doesn't mean squat. It's 100% irrelevant.

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 09:02 AM
He didnt look any worse than Kerry Collins or Drew Breese :confused:

The offensive lines for both teams were awful. You always hope that the Pro Bowl is an offensive showcase, but none of the QBs had any time to throw the ball downfield.

No blitzing and no stunting and you cant keep the front four off the QB. It was pathetic.

atwater27
02-09-2009, 09:07 AM
Yeah, but alot of what makes offensive lines good is knowledge of a particular system and many many reps and chemistry with their teammates. Give those guys a few more weeks together and both lines would be stellar.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 09:37 AM
Excuses, excuses

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 09:44 AM
Excuses, excuses

Imagine what they'd be saying if that was Plummer.

MileHighWrath
02-09-2009, 10:17 AM
The pro bowl? Are you freaking kidding me? Unless I'm totally out because of a world class hang over, serious bout of the flu or bed ridden due to some other ailment/injury, I can't imagine why I would waste my time. Even at that there's probably something better on TV like an NBA game that actually means something. Or a dog show competition (not that I'm going to watch that either). Life's short and you won't ever get that 3 hours back. The only thing more ridiculous than spending the time to watch that "game" would be to complain about what a player or players did in the "game." The guys are on vacation with friends and family and mix in a football "game." I guarantee those of you who put any relevance at all into what happened in that "game" are taking it way more seriously than anyone that actually played in it.

Like I said .... are you freaking kidding me?

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 10:22 AM
Imagine what they'd be saying if that was Plummer.

Plummer was never good enough to make a PB in his third season.

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 10:38 AM
Plummer was never good enough to make a PB in his third season.

Never said he was. Just find it funny how Cutler gets all these excuses handed to him when he plays poorly.

Probowl or not - he did the exact same thing during that game that he did all season. Drive down the field, throw a pick.

dunk7
02-09-2009, 10:45 AM
I seem to remember Elway not exactly tearing up the Pro Bowl. Was at the game and noticed Cutler was chatting up Manning most of the game, learing as much as possible. I thought Cutler made a few amazing plays and a bad plays. I'd be more concerned of the fact that Marshall can't catch. He dropped 3 or 4 catchable balls.

PS. Ran into Royal and Clady during the Pro Bowl block party. Those guys are awesome!!!

NightTrainLayne
02-09-2009, 10:46 AM
Never said he was. Just find it funny how Cutler gets all these excuses handed to him when he plays poorly.

Probowl or not - he did the exact same thing during that game that he did all season. Drive down the field, throw a pick.

On the pick, he was on the other end of the field, and had Ware draped all over him, after two or three plays in a row with defenders right in his face at every release.

So. .. it was a similar situation as to the whole season. With little time left, and with no hope of a running attack because of the time on the clock, JC is asked to bail out the team with a critical drive virtually all by himself. While trying to avoid defenders who don't have to worry about any run-game responsibilities and while tangled up with a defensive end he made a bad decision. Yep. ..that pretty much sums up our season. When I use the initials JC it stands for Jay Cutler, not Jesus Christ. . . the kid can only do so much.

Do you really care this much about his performance in the Pro Bowl Joe?

turftoad
02-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Never said he was. Just find it funny how Cutler gets all these excuses handed to him when he plays poorly.

Probowl or not - he did the exact same thing during that game that he did all season. Drive down the field, throw a pick.

I agree with Joe. :D

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 10:57 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80ea419c

The INT was on the AFC side of the field...nowhere near driving down the field. The possession Jay drove down the field they scored a TD.

Watch the play again, Ware got to Cutler without even being touched...maybe was even offsides. Cutler should have probably thrown it away, but he had Ware grabbing his ankle before he could even get set to throw and was trying to dump it off to the RB. Peppers made a great play to realize Jay was in trouble and dropped back to the RB to make the INT.

I'm always getting on Jay's case during the season. I am probably one of the worst criticisers of him, but this was an exibition game and hardly an indication of what we can expect out of him next year. I just don't see why everyone is getting so worked up over how Brandon and Jay looked in this game. I'll wait until both guys are with their own teammates running the Broncos offense before I criticize.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 11:07 AM
Imagine what they'd be saying if that was Plummer.

You dont even have to take it that far. Just imagine what would be said if Cutler went 12-15 for 175 yards and 2 TD's and won the MVP. Suddenly, the story would go from, "the Pro-bowl is meaningless and Jay got screwed by the line" to, "Jay is so freaking awesome, he went out there and represented and secured a victory for the AFC"

NightTrainLayne
02-09-2009, 11:11 AM
You dont even have to take it that far. Just imagine what would be said if Cutler went 12-15 for 175 yards and 2 TD's and won the MVP. Suddenly, the story would go from, "the Pro-bowl is meaningless and Jay got screwed by the line" to, "Jay is so freaking awesome, he went out there and represented and secured a victory for the AFC"

Not for me. ..I'd still say it's just the pro-bowl, and is meaningless. But you are right, some would go that route.

jrelway
02-09-2009, 11:13 AM
wow, already a couple of threads on how bad cutler and marshall looked in the probowl. these guys only have about a week to practice and get plays down. their not giving it their all and do not play in unison because they dont give a crap about this game. their out to have fun and not take it too serious. so cutler threw an INT with harrison holding on to his leg. he tried to make something happen for the fans at the probowl. just like bball players do flashy shit at the allstar game. shit makes me laugh.

jrelway
02-09-2009, 11:14 AM
btw, i had honey bunches of oats for breakfast

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 11:14 AM
Do you really care this much about his performance in the Pro Bowl Joe?

When it mirrors his in-season performance, yes.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 11:22 AM
Maybe I'm unique, but I dont think so. I played competetive baseball for a very long time and went to college as a result. Like any athlete, I took pride in my performance and did my best.

My baseball days are behind me now and I play softball. We go out and drink beer, play a game and then drink more beer. The champions at the end get a t-shirt and nothing more. but guess what...I STILL WANT TO WIN. Like any athlete, I am competetive and want to excel.

So please dont give me this horseshit that Cutler and Marshall or ANYONE is out there to "have fun". Any athlete worth a damn wants to do their best at all times...especially when in the presence of the best in the league.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 11:23 AM
Not for me. ..I'd still say it's just the pro-bowl, and is meaningless. But you are right, some would go that route.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever play any organized, competetive sports?

turftoad
02-09-2009, 11:26 AM
wow, already a couple of threads on how bad cutler and marshall looked in the probowl. these guys only have about a week to practice and get plays down. their not giving it their all and do not play in unison because they dont give a crap about this game. their out to have fun and not take it too serious. so cutler threw an INT with harrison holding on to his leg. he tried to make something happen for the fans at the probowl. just like bball players do flashy shit at the allstar game. shit makes me laugh.

All the rest of the QB's had the same amount of time to prepare. Cutler played the worse out of all of them.
I'm sure he wanted to play well on the big stage with the prime time players.

He didn't.

topscribe
02-09-2009, 11:32 AM
Defenses could only rush 4 players, and no blitzing. :shocked:

Right. And still the O-line could not stop the rush. It is a fact that Cutler had
no time to throw the ball anywhere. It is true that his INT throw was ill-
advised, but, as I mentioned elsewhere, it is also true that, if the rusher who
had Cutler's leg wrapped up had been adequately blocked, it would not have
been an issue.

But Cutler was absolutely harassed. Several of his passes were simply throw-
aways because there was nothing else to do with a pass rusher attached to
him.

In fact, I noted to myself at the time how grateful I am that the Broncos have
Clady, Harris, Kuper, Wiegmann, and Hamilton on the line. None of them went
to the Pro Bowl, of course, but all five of them are better than those who
were there. :beer:

-----

NightTrainLayne
02-09-2009, 11:35 AM
Just out of curiosity, did you ever play any organized, competetive sports?

Damn, that kinda hurts Coach. You're insinuating that I don't understand competitive sports.

Yes I did. I played football in high school. In Jr. high I had played basketball as well, but wasn't fast enough to really carry that on through high school. Of course, that's nothing compared to the level that you have experienced competitive sports.

I'm not making the argument that they weren't trying or that they didn't care (some here may be, but I'm not). I think they cared. . .but I have to question whether the left tackle really cared on that play where Jay threw the int. He barely even came out of his stance. How much blame does he get? This is why arguing about a particular player's performance in a pro-bowl is a wasted effort. It's a team sport with a bunch of guys thrown together for a week and less practice than I had in one day of two-a-days back in high school.

I know they were giving it their best effort. I know Jay made a mistake throwing that ball, but like I said: Once again, it all fell onto his shoulders to save a game. . .a game he didn't even get to play in until the fourth quarter. At a time when there was once again, no hope or prayer of a running game due to the clock situation.

That play by itself isn't why they lost the game. If you remember the drive before that Jay drove them down for a go-ahead TD. Maybe if collins hadn't fumbled at the 20-yard line and let the NFC back in the game it would have been different.

To pin the loss on a QB who didn't even touch the ball until the 4th quarter. . .and btw still got the lead back only to watch the defense give it up again is just silly. . .especially in the pro-bowl.

Thnikkaman
02-09-2009, 11:35 AM
Meh. It was entertaining to watch. It also made me sick every time one of the HOF nominees were on the screen.

I thought the fumblerooski was funny. As far as Criticism on Jay's play, he needs to learn how to throw the ball away. Period. Something that I'm pretty confident that he will learn how to do. I thought Marshal should have caught Manning's pass in the end zone, but he didn't. Whatever. It was the Pro Bowl. I'm just happy to see that you guys are supplied with enough venom to keep yourselves going in the off season. Its going to make for some good entertainment.

:popcorn:

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 11:37 AM
You dont even have to take it that far. Just imagine what would be said if Cutler went 12-15 for 175 yards and 2 TD's and won the MVP. Suddenly, the story would go from, "the Pro-bowl is meaningless and Jay got screwed by the line" to, "Jay is so freaking awesome, he went out there and represented and secured a victory for the AFC"

I wasn't thinking that about Peyton. He had good numbers, but I thought he looked mediocre as well.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 11:38 AM
Damn, that kinda hurts Coach. You're insinuating that I don't understand competitive sports.

Yes I did. I played football in high school. In Jr. high I had played basketball as well, but wasn't fast enough to really carry that on through high school. Of course, that's nothing compared to the level that you have experienced competitive sports.

I'm not making the argument that they weren't trying or that they didn't care (some here may be, but I'm not). I think they cared. . .but I have to question whether the left tackle really cared on that play where Jay threw the int. He barely even came out of his stance. How much blame does he get? This is why arguing about a particular player's performance in a pro-bowl is a wasted effort. It's a team sport with a bunch of guys thrown together for a week and less practice than I had in one day of two-a-days back in high school.

I know they were giving it their best effort. I know Jay made a mistake throwing that ball, but like I said: Once again, it all fell onto his shoulders to save a game. . .a game he didn't even get to play in until the fourth quarter. At a time when there was once again, no hope or prayer of a running game due to the clock situation.

That play by itself isn't why they lost the game. If you remember the drive before that Jay drove them down for a go-ahead TD. Maybe if collins hadn't fumbled at the 20-yard line and let the NFC back in the game it would have been different.

To pin the loss on a QB who didn't even touch the ball until the 4th quarter. . .and btw still got the lead back only to watch the defense give it up again is just silly. . .especially in the pro-bowl.

I wasnt insinuating anything, just trying to get you to see the point.

I dont think anyone is blaming Cutler for losing the game or anything, just simply pointing out that no matter who is on the field with him and no matter how much time he has or doesnt have to prepare...he plays the same.

Thnikkaman
02-09-2009, 11:41 AM
I wasnt insinuating anything, just trying to get you to see the point.

I dont think anyone is blaming Cutler for losing the game or anything, just simply pointing out that no matter who is on the field with him and no matter how much time he has or doesnt have to prepare...he plays the same.

Who do you want quarterbacking the Broncos?

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 11:42 AM
I'm just hoping that MickyD will get him a bit more under control.

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 11:42 AM
Just out of curiosity, did you ever play any organized, competetive sports?

I can answer that for myself...I am in the same boat as you. In HS I played Baseball, basketball, and football...went on to play college baseball and now play rec-league softball.

This past year the company I work for started a softball team for the league...so I played on my company team. I work for an engineering firm, so imagine a team that is half-full of electrical engineers....we had several people who had not played a single inning of baseball, softball, teeball, etc.

We didn't win a single game all season...but I had a lot of fun playing with my co-workers and getting to know some people that work in departments that I dont ever deal with. I made some friends with people that I otherwise would not have spoken to outside of the office.

I'm sure Jay got more out of his week in Hawaii than what we saw for 10 minutes on the field Sunday. As long as he shows up this year for the Broncos I could give two shits how he looked at a glorified exhibition game.

I'm sure Jay wont dwell on it and will get right to work when camp rolls around.

NightTrainLayne
02-09-2009, 11:45 AM
I wasnt insinuating anything, just trying to get you to see the point.

I dont think anyone is blaming Cutler for losing the game or anything, just simply pointing out that no matter who is on the field with him and no matter how much time he has or doesnt have to prepare...he plays the same.

Well, okey-dokey then. I guess I was reading in more criticism there than you guys actually intended.

It's funny though. .. after you make that statement, it seems that you and Joe may have been asking Cutler to play BETTER than his regular season performance in the Pro Bowl. It's just me, but I would usually expect the same type of performance in the pro bowl as exhibited during the season.

I.E., you are at the other extreme from the extreme that you brought up earlier. If Cutler set the world on fire, it would be wrong to act like he was the messiah, but just because he had one bad play under a decent amount of pressure doesn't mean he's a slouch either.

topscribe
02-09-2009, 11:46 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80ea419c

The INT was on the AFC side of the field...nowhere near driving down the field. The possession Jay drove down the field they scored a TD.

Watch the play again, Ware got to Cutler without even being touched...maybe was even offsides. Cutler should have probably thrown it away, but he had Ware grabbing his ankle before he could even get set to throw and was trying to dump it off to the RB. Peppers made a great play to realize Jay was in trouble and dropped back to the RB to make the INT.

I'm always getting on Jay's case during the season. I am probably one of the worst criticisers of him, but this was an exibition game and hardly an indication of what we can expect out of him next year. I just don't see why everyone is getting so worked up over how Brandon and Jay looked in this game. I'll wait until both guys are with their own teammates running the Broncos offense before I criticize.

Actually, after watching this clip several times (thank you, BTW), Cutler was
simply going to his safety valve. The cagey Peppers knew what he was doing.
He started in on the rush, then backed off and covered the safety valve, and
Cutler did not see him . . . . how could he with Ware coming in untouched?

I said Cutler's throw was ill-advised, and maybe it was (I wasn't down there
in the heat of action), but he actually was doing what he was supposed to
do: throw to his safety valve.

Rather than causing me to trash Cutler on that throw, it makes me all the
more wishful that the Broncos could get Peppers into an orange & blue
uniform. :shocked:

-----

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 11:54 AM
Well, okey-dokey then. I guess I was reading in more criticism there than you guys actually intended.

It's funny though. .. after you make that statement, it seems that you and Joe may have been asking Cutler to play BETTER than his regular season performance in the Pro Bowl. It's just me, but I would usually expect the same type of performance in the pro bowl as exhibited during the season.

I.E., you are at the other extreme from the extreme that you brought up earlier. If Cutler set the world on fire, it would be wrong to act like he was the messiah, but just because he had one bad play under a decent amount of pressure doesn't mean he's a slouch either.

Like I said, i dont think anyone is saying he played horribly or great. Just simply curious that he played the exact same way he did during the season.

fcspikeit
02-09-2009, 12:02 PM
Actually, after watching this clip several times (thank you, BTW), Cutler was
simply going to his safety valve. The cagey Peppers knew what he was doing.
He started in on the rush, then backed off and covered the safety valve, and
Cutler did not see him . . . . how could he with Ware coming in untouched?

I said Cutler's throw was ill-advised, and maybe it was (I wasn't down there
in the heat of action), but he actually was doing what he was supposed to
do: throw to his safety valve.

Rather than causing me to trash Cutler on that throw, it makes me all the
more wishful that the Broncos could get Peppers into an orange & blue
uniform. :shocked:

-----


It was a bit Like the pick 6 in the Superbowl, in the sense both QB's never seen the defender drop back in coverage.. Except Cutler had a guy pulling his leg out from under him.. It was on 3rd down, sure throwing it away is better then an int, that's why they say hind sight is 20/20.

He did throw the ball away a couple times, he wouldn't have looked to good throwing it away every play either... LOL

I didn't think any of the QB's looked all that great. The veterans did handle themselves a bit better then Cutler, there is a reason Manning won the league MVP and Breeze was considered.. If 7 years from now cutler is still trying to make something out of nothing, this conversation would make more since, even then, I'm not sure I would fault him for trying to dump the ball off instead of taking the sack on 3rd down, but maybe that's just me...

honz
02-09-2009, 12:02 PM
I can't believe people are putting stock into the Pro Bowl. It's a game where everyone is just trying not to get hurt and the players are playing in a different system with different players. So we learned that Cutler is no Peyton Manning? Well, we already knew that.

Shazam!
02-09-2009, 12:06 PM
Not even all the Pro Bowl stuff, it wasn't even his 40th game... Geeeez.

Northman
02-09-2009, 12:08 PM
Like I said, i dont think anyone is saying he played horribly or great. Just simply curious that he played the exact same way he did during the season.

What would make you think that he would of changed that much from the regular season to the Pro-Bowl? What exactly were you expecting from this game?

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 12:09 PM
I think Coach and I are just voicing concerns that he has the propensity to throw picks at inopportune times.

Northman
02-09-2009, 12:15 PM
I think Coach and I are just voicing concerns that he has the propensity to throw picks at inopportune times.


So how long do you give a Qb to mature as a player?

Nomad
02-09-2009, 12:17 PM
Why bother going to the Pro Bowl if a player is not going to try, it's still a competative game and the winning team gets paid at the end! As being representatives of my team, I want to see them play their best unless that is their best!:eek: I guess Fitzgerald and Gonzales didn't get the memo it was only the Pro Bowl.

This proves that the Pro Bowl selectees should be voted for after the regular season ends. If that would have happened Cutler wouldn't have made it, Clady would have though!!! Marshall needs to take a note from Gonzales and Fitzgerald and catch with your hands and not the forearms/body. Then again it's just a Pro Bowl!!

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 12:18 PM
I think Coach and I are just voicing concerns that he has the propensity to throw picks at inopportune times.

Exactly. Whether it's one of 6 or 7 red zone/end zone INT's or an INT in the Pro Bowl that costs a game...he still tries to force the issue with his arm too much and tends to do it in scenarios where it's the worst possible thing to do. Yes, the odds are he will grow up and eventually realize he doesnt have to do everything on his own, but in the meantime, it's just a habit he has that concerns me.

Someone has an arm around your leg? Take the sack. Your primary receiver is triple covered? Find an outlet. The outlet isnt open? Throw it away.

Yes, it's easy to sit here and judge this, but he is an NFL Pro-Bowl QB and these are some things he REALLY needs to correct.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 12:19 PM
So how long do you give a Qb to mature as a player?

Maybe we see it differently, but if you are in the Pro-Bowl...your decision making skills should be there.

it's obvious Jay didnt belong there yesterday.

turftoad
02-09-2009, 12:20 PM
Right. And still the O-line could not stop the rush. It is a fact that Cutler had
no time to throw the ball anywhere. It is true that his INT throw was ill-
advised, but, as I mentioned elsewhere, it is also true that, if the rusher who
had Cutler's leg wrapped up had been adequately blocked, it would not have
been an issue.

But Cutler was absolutely harassed. Several of his passes were simply throw-
aways because there was nothing else to do with a pass rusher attached to
him.

In fact, I noted to myself at the time how grateful I am that the Broncos have
Clady, Harris, Kuper, Wiegmann, and Hamilton on the line. None of them went
to the Pro Bowl, of course, but all five of them are better than those who
were there. :beer:

-----

The other AFC QB's played behind the same line.

P. Manning 12/17 151 1 0
K. Collins 10/15 108 1 1
J. Cutler 7/15 48 0 1

Maybe, just maybe Cutler shouldn't have been there YET. :shocked:

That said, Brees was the only QB in the league that threw more passes than Cutler did last year. Wneh you throw that many passes, your passing stats should look good. Thus Cutler making the Pro Bowl.

topscribe
02-09-2009, 12:26 PM
Maybe we see it differently, but if you are in the Pro-Bowl...your decision making skills should be there.

it's obvious Jay didnt belong there yesterday.

It is not obvious to me.

In the play in question, it was Jay's decision to throw to the safety valve. If
that was the wrong move, then why should #29 have been there? His sole
purpose for being where he was, was to take a pass if the QB had nowhere
else to go.

After reviewing the play several times from different angles, I can see where
Cutler would not have spotted Peppers because he was at least partially
obscured in the defense, and things were pretty fast and furious at that
instant.

Overall, the pass rush was so fierce that Cutler had little time to even see
whether the primary receiver was open. So several times he simply had to
throw the ball away.

I think if we make an effort to judge the situation objectively, we might arrive
at a more reasonable conclusion on this.

-----

Northman
02-09-2009, 12:28 PM
Cutler played well enough throughout the year to get the nod. Although i agree with Nomad that the voting shouldnt take place until after the season he still played well enough to be there. The Pro Bowl is based off what you did throughout the season and Jay did a great job for somebody who had almost nothing to work with. So he sucked at his first Pro Bowl. Chances are he will suck at his first Super Bowl depending on when he gets there if ever. If everyone else wants to write this kid off so fast thats fine. I think i'll wait a couple more years before i pronounce him a bust.

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 12:31 PM
The other AFC QB's played behind the same line.

P. Manning 12/17 151 1 0
K. Collins 10/15 108 1 1
J. Cutler 7/15 48 0 1

Maybe, just maybe Cutler shouldn't have been there YET. :shocked:

That said, Brees was the only QB in the league that threw more passes than Cutler did last year. Wneh you throw that many passes, your passing stats should look good. Thus Cutler making the Pro Bowl.

Collins also had a lost fumble due to pressure.

Cutler had Ware and Allen at DE and Peppers and Randle playing DT while he was in the game. Not exactly playing the run there....but that was also a similarity to his game this year, wouldnt you agree?

Yea I know, more excuses right...I'm just not taking any bets on how Jay plays next year based on the Pro Bowl. I'm happy he was there and was able to get face time with some vets...maybe he learned a thing or two to make himself better.

Northman
02-09-2009, 12:32 PM
It is not obvious to me.

In the play in question, it was Jay's decision to throw to the safety valve. If
that was the wrong move, then why should #29 have been there? His sole
purpose for being where he was, was to take a pass if the QB had nowhere
else to go.

After reviewing the play several times from different angles, I can see where
Cutler would not have spotted Peppers because he was at least partially
obscured in the defense, and things were pretty fast and furious at that
instant.

Overall, the pass rush was so fierce that Cutler had little time to even see
whether the primary receiver was open. So several times he simply had to
throw the ball away.

I think if we make an effort to judge the situation objectively, we might arrive
at a more reasonable conclusion on this.

-----


Great point. Did you happen to catch that sideline interview with Warner and Harrison?

I thought it was kind of telling that Warner was telling Harrison he should have never been in the play in question. Boldin was supposed to be lined up differently than he was on that play that Harrison took back.

Thing is, anything can happen on any given play. And take a veteran like Peppers who knows that Jay has a tendency to fumble or make a bad decision only increases the chance of making it happen. Throw in a Oline that wasnt giving 100% either and anything can happen. People expecting perfection out of a 2nd year Qb is ridiculous. The kid still needs to work on things but damn, give him some time already.

turftoad
02-09-2009, 12:32 PM
Cutler played well enough throughout the year to get the nod. Although i agree with Nomad that the voting shouldnt take place until after the season he still played well enough to be there. The Pro Bowl is based off what you did throughout the season and Jay did a great job for somebody who had almost nothing to work with. So he sucked at his first Pro Bowl. Chances are he will suck at his first Super Bowl depending on when he gets there if ever. If everyone else wants to write this kid off so fast thats fine. I think i'll wait a couple more years before i pronounce him a bust.

I think thats what we're all saying.


And..................... SUPER BOWL?? DID YOU SAY SUPER BOWL?? :D

Nomad
02-09-2009, 12:36 PM
Cutler played well enough throughout the year to get the nod. Although i agree with Nomad that the voting shouldnt take place until after the season he still played well enough to be there. The Pro Bowl is based off what you did throughout the season and Jay did a great job for somebody who had almost nothing to work with. So he sucked at his first Pro Bowl. Chances are he will suck at his first Super Bowl depending on when he gets there if ever. If everyone else wants to write this kid off so fast thats fine. I think i'll wait a couple more years before i pronounce him a bust.

I don't think he's a bust, but I don't believe he was the 2nd/3rd best QB in the AFC especially down the stretch. We'll see how he does next year, out of his sophomore slump/ new coach, but after next year I hope his decision making improves and he did look lost yesterday. Then again you mentioned his blood sugar was out of whack!

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 12:36 PM
Cutler played well enough throughout the year to get the nod. Although i agree with Nomad that the voting shouldnt take place until after the season he still played well enough to be there. The Pro Bowl is based off what you did throughout the season and Jay did a great job for somebody who had almost nothing to work with. So he sucked at his first Pro Bowl. Chances are he will suck at his first Super Bowl depending on when he gets there if ever. If everyone else wants to write this kid off so fast thats fine. I think i'll wait a couple more years before i pronounce him a bust.

Who the hell is writing him off? Let me try a different approach to this.

JAY'S PROPENSITY TO FORCE A PASS AND THROW THE UNTIMELY INT REGARDLESS OF THE GAME AND SCENARIO IS A CONCERN.

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 12:38 PM
who the hell is writing him off? Let me try a different approach to this.

Jay's propensity to force a pass and throw the untimely int regardless of the game and scenario is a concern.

qft.

topscribe
02-09-2009, 12:46 PM
The other AFC QB's played behind the same line.

P. Manning 12/17 151 1 0
K. Collins 10/15 108 1 1
J. Cutler 7/15 48 0 1

Maybe, just maybe Cutler shouldn't have been there YET. :shocked:

That said, Brees was the only QB in the league that threw more passes than Cutler did last year. Wneh you throw that many passes, your passing stats should look good. Thus Cutler making the Pro Bowl.

Now you are really not making any sense. If a QB throws a lot of passes, he
should look good? Right. What if he throws a lot of passes and completes 40%
of them? Does he still look good? Cutler completed a lot of passes for the
number he threw (62.3%) for a franchise record 4,526 yards, and he did it in
circumstances when the defense most of the time was fully expecting him to
pass. That is why he looked good.

I want to see him more in situations where he isn't playing from behind so
much, in his second year (on the field) in the league. Then I will feel as if I
am in a better position to make a judgment.

Maybe Jay should have been there, and maybe he shouldn't. That is a
subjective opinion. But the fact remains he was there. And to give those stats
in support of a supposition that he should not have been there is to say that
Kerry Collins is a better QB than Cutler. Would you rather have Collins? I trust
your judgment that you would not say yes to that.

-----

turftoad
02-09-2009, 12:49 PM
Now you are really not making any sense. If a QB throws a lot of passes, he
should look good? Right. What if he throws a lot of passes and completes 40%
of them? Does he still look good? Cutler completed a lot of passes for the
number he threw (62.3%) for a franchise record 4,526 yards, and he did it in
circumstances when the defense most of the time was fully expecting him to
pass. That is why he looked good.

I want to see him more in situations where he isn't playing from behind so
much, in his second year (on the field) in the league. Then I will feel as if I
am in a better position to make a judgment.

Maybe Jake should have been there, and maybe he shouldn't. That is a
subjective opinion. But the fact remains he was there. And to give those stats
in support of a supposition that he should not have been there is to say that
Kerry Collins is a better QB than Cutler. Would you rather have Collins? I trust
your judgment that you would not say yes to that.

-----

Amen, Top. :D

topscribe
02-09-2009, 12:50 PM
Collins also had a lost fumble due to pressure.

Cutler had Ware and Allen at DE and Peppers and Randle playing DT while he was in the game. Not exactly playing the run there....but that was also a similarity to his game this year, wouldnt you agree?

Yea I know, more excuses right...I'm just not taking any bets on how Jay plays next year based on the Pro Bowl. I'm happy he was there and was able to get face time with some vets...maybe he learned a thing or two to make himself better.

Anytime you try to analyze something and try to come up with reasons, you
will have those who accuse you of making excuses. I just let them accuse
away because that just makes for a hollow argument on their parts.

-----

MileHighWrath
02-09-2009, 01:22 PM
Almost 5 pages on a meaningless, who-cares "game" that means more to SOME fans than it ever will to any of the players that have ever played in it.

So one guy threw an int and another dropped passes. And now some say "he didn't belong there." Why? because everything he did in the regular season becomes meaningless after his 10 min performance playing with people he has never played with before while on a league paid vacation in Hawaii at the PROBOWL?

WTF people!

And I thought I had too much time on my hands.

:confused:

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 01:24 PM
I give up. No matter how simple you try to make a comment, someone will undoubtedly get offended, take it the wrong way, add words to it and blow it up into something that was never intended in the first place. it's ridiculous.

NameUsedBefore
02-09-2009, 01:29 PM
Jay had a d-lineman latched onto one leg with more coming at him from above in a meaningless game, of course he doesn't care where he throws it.

The "excuses" swing both ways -- Cutler played bad, okay, it's a meaningless, half-assed exhibition. Cutler played great -- what does that make the Pro Bowl? A meaningless, half-assed exhibition.

It means nothing.

Nomad
02-09-2009, 01:31 PM
I give up. No matter how simple you try to make a comment, someone will undoubtedly get offended, take it the wrong way, add words to it and blow it up into something that was never intended in the first place. it's ridiculous.


Don't be so hard on yourself Chaz! Many here understand what you are saying, but you know what next year these posters better not vote Cutler or any other BRONCO to the PRO BOWL because it's meaningless game and why waste the players/fans time!

turftoad
02-09-2009, 01:34 PM
Jay had a d-lineman latched onto one leg with more coming at him from above in a meaningless game, of course he doesn't care where he throws it.




That was only one of his fifteen passes.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 01:35 PM
Don't be so hard on yourself Chaz! Many here understand what you are saying, but you know what next year these posters better not vote Cutler or any other BRONCO to the PRO BOWL because it's meaningless game and why waste the players/fans time!

I know...it's so meaningless, but it was an absolute travesty that Clady didnt make it.

I couldn't give a damn if it was a touch football game in the parking lot. I just want to see Cutler make better decisions.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 01:37 PM
Jay had a d-lineman latched onto one leg with more coming at him from above in a meaningless game, of course he doesn't care where he throws it.

The "excuses" swing both ways -- Cutler played bad, okay, it's a meaningless, half-assed exhibition. Cutler played great -- what does that make the Pro Bowl? A meaningless, half-assed exhibition.

It means nothing.

I sure as hell hope this isnt how Jay looks at it, because if it is, he'll have done a pretty good job of pissing off a few fellow AFC players that lost some money because "he didnt care"

NameUsedBefore
02-09-2009, 01:38 PM
I sure as hell hope this isnt how Jay looks at it, because if it is, he'll have done a pretty good job of pissing off a few fellow AFC players that lost some money because "he didnt care"

As another article stated, John Elway and Troy Aikman didn't care either. It's a worthless game. As I just said, had Cutler, say, played great would it have been any different? No, the argument still applies: It means nothing.

turftoad
02-09-2009, 01:40 PM
As another article stated, John Elway and Troy Aikman didn't care either. It's a worthless game. As I just said, had Cutler, say, played great would it have been any different? No, the argument still applies: It means nothing.

It means he looked like crap in front of his peers. It means he didn't play as well as his peers at the same position.

Nomad
02-09-2009, 01:42 PM
Again, why do you people who say its a worthless game bother voting players in from the BRONCOS?? So next year, you won't be hypocrites and vote any BRONCO players to the PRO BOWL, right!!!!

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 01:43 PM
As another article stated, John Elway and Troy Aikman didn't care either. It's a worthless game. As I just said, had Cutler, say, played great would it have been any different? No, the argument still applies: It means nothing.

Watch Cutler walk off the field after that play and tell me you think it meant nothing to him.

It means nothing to fans because they want an excuse, but if he marched down the field and they won, it would mean everything.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-09-2009, 01:44 PM
It is the Pro Bowl. Who gives a ****?

Slick
02-09-2009, 01:49 PM
It is the Pro Bowl. Who gives a ****?

I don't and I didn't watch the game.



However I can still see Coach's point. All he wants is for his QB to learn from his mistakes.

I'm pretty sure McD was watching the game closely, with a keen eye on his new players. I have a feeling he'll teach Jay to check down, and not force so many balls.

it's not like Jay sucks. He has a few things he needs to work on. I have confidence that he'll mature.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 01:49 PM
It is the Pro Bowl. Who gives a ****?

No one gives a damn about the outcome of the game and no one really cares if a player does great or poorly. A few of simply mentioned that it was INTERESTING/CONCERNING THAT CUTLER MAKES THE SAME MISTAKES NO MATTER WHAT IMPORTANCE THE GAME HOLDS.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-09-2009, 01:51 PM
I'm glad you re-emphasized the point that he is a gunslinger and takes risks. I finally get it now.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 01:53 PM
I'm glad you re-emphasized the point that he is a gunslinger and takes unnecessary risks. I finally get it now.

Edited for accuracy

Thnikkaman
02-09-2009, 01:53 PM
I know...it's so meaningless, but it was an absolute travesty that Clady didnt make it.

I couldn't give a damn if it was a touch football game in the parking lot. I just want to see Cutler make better decisions.

I do too, but I don't expect it right now. If he isn't making an improvement by week 8 of next season, that is when I would start worrying. I know Jay wanted to win just like his team mates did.

I think I totally get what you are saying, and its not "I want a new quarterback" (despite the post I made back on page 2 or 3). I think the counter argument to what you are saying is "Don't expect that change until next season".

MileHighWrath
02-09-2009, 01:56 PM
Don't get me wrong, being voted into the probowl is a big deal and we should be proud of those Broncos who made it and pissed that others, like Clady, didn't. It IS, after all, the all-star game for the NFL and their inclusion IS a big deal. I have no doubt that the experience is fantastic for the players and every player in the NFL would hope to be in the probowl at least once in his career. But guys, the game is shit, I mean come on are you kidding me?

Bring back the QB Challenge and individual skills, those are fun to watch and they show off some amazing talent, but the game? Puhleeze! And then to critique a players performance in that game? OMG is this for real!?!

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 02:00 PM
I do too, but I don't expect it right now. If he isn't making an improvement by week 8 of next season, that is when I would start worrying. I know Jay wanted to win just like his team mates did.

I think I totally get what you are saying, and its not "I want a new quarterback" (despite the post I made back on page 2 or 3). I think the counter argument to what you are saying is "Don't expect that change until next season".

I dont think any of us would even go so far to say that we expected him to play above himself in this meaningless game. We are simply saying that it's interesting that no matter the game and no matter the teammates...he seems to make the same unnecessary mistakes over and over again.

All of us are probably confident that he'll either make the corrections or lose hi job eventually. But for the time being, it's obvious he has alot of work to do in that area.

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 02:23 PM
I dont think there is a single Broncos fan that doesn't think Jay needs to make improvements to his game...but to dissect a PRO BOWL game where Jay took his first snap in the 4th quarter is (for lack of a better word) retarded.

If he had played well, would the game have been any more meaningful to fans? Probably not...not to me at least. We would just realize that we have a young talented QB on our team...but most of us have already come to that realization.

Now, if Sunday's game were the Super Bowl, a playoff game, or even a regular season game you would find many here (myself included) complaining about Jay's play...but, it was the Pro Bowl.

Yes he made some of the same mistakes he made during the year, but who cares? He obviously wasn't going to get better practicing 45 min a day for a week in Hawaii. He even said in his blog before the PB he hadn't even thrown a ball since the SD game.

I mean, honestly, were you people expecting any more from him at the friggen Pro Bowl?? It's a joke that we are even talking about this.

And to the people who are telling me that I have no business voting for the Pro Bowl, well you are probably right...actually, no fans should be voting, but that is another topic entirely. I will say, though, that I will be voting for the Pro Bowl next year, regardless of whether I think the game is meaningful or not (its not). It's an honor to be invited to the game, but to expect these players to put into the PB what they would put into a real game is preposterous.

broncophan
02-09-2009, 02:29 PM
You dont even have to take it that far. Just imagine what would be said if Cutler went 12-15 for 175 yards and 2 TD's and won the MVP. Suddenly, the story would go from, "the Pro-bowl is meaningless and Jay got screwed by the line" to, "Jay is so freaking awesome, he went out there and represented and secured a victory for the AFC"


Yep..........those are the same people who thought Cutler would have 2 super bowl rings by now also....

topscribe
02-09-2009, 02:32 PM
It means he looked like crap in front of his peers. It means he didn't play as well as his peers at the same position.

Does that really matter? His peers have seen him play. They have gone up
against him. They know what he can do. It isn't as if this game is going to
have any effect on their judgment of him.

-----

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 02:34 PM
Does that really matter? His peers have seen him play. They have gone up
against him. They know what he can do. It isn't as if this game is going to
have any effect on their judgment of him.

-----

Yep. Like throw 18 picks during the regular season. 2nd in the league behind Mr. INT himself, Bret Favre.

weazel
02-09-2009, 02:34 PM
what is this "pro bowl" you speak of?

topscribe
02-09-2009, 02:35 PM
I know...it's so meaningless, but it was an absolute travesty that Clady didnt make it.

I couldn't give a damn if it was a touch football game in the parking lot. I just want to see Cutler make better decisions.

I'm with you, Coach. So do I. And I think he will. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

Lonestar
02-09-2009, 02:35 PM
I'll post without Reading this thread so If I repeat something already said Great minds think alike come to mind..

Jay showed some poise on his first drive but much of it was handing off to RB's .. I was not at all impressed with his passing and frankly manning looked like an all pro and Jay looked like a rookie backup..

I was less that impressed with Marshall.. either he has substantial damage to the hand or needs a brain transplant..

he simple drops to many critical passes to be counted on.. If it is the hand issue I hope he can heal up better over the off season if it is he is thinking with his little head that can be fixed also.. but he has to start getting it consistently or needs to move ON..

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 02:39 PM
Explain to all of us how something so honorable isnt worth a players effort. That just doesnt even sound right.

Why not?

It's an honor to be selected as an elite player for the year...by the fans, media, coaches, and other players.

If you expect ANY of the players to put in the time to prepare for the Pro Bowl that they put into a regular season game, then I don't really know what to tell you. Most of the guys on the field probaly havent even touched a football or watched a clip of film in over a month.

Sure they want to play well, but if they were REALLY that concerned about playing their best game, they would have practiced for more than 45 min a day and put in time watching film of the players on the opposing team. The fact that they spet more time on the beach than they did on the practice field should tell you all you need to know about how important the game was to them.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 02:39 PM
I dont think there is a single Broncos fan that doesn't think Jay needs to make improvements to his game...but to dissect a PRO BOWL game where Jay took his first snap in the 4th quarter is (for lack of a better word) retarded.

If he had played well, would the game have been any more meaningful to fans? Probably not...not to me at least. We would just realize that we have a young talented QB on our team...but most of us have already come to that realization.

Now, if Sunday's game were the Super Bowl, a playoff game, or even a regular season game you would find many here (myself included) complaining about Jay's play...but, it was the Pro Bowl.

Yes he made some of the same mistakes he made during the year, but who cares? He obviously wasn't going to get better practicing 45 min a day for a week in Hawaii. He even said in his blog before the PB he hadn't even thrown a ball since the SD game.

I mean, honestly, were you people expecting any more from him at the friggen Pro Bowl?? It's a joke that we are even talking about this.

And to the people who are telling me that I have no business voting for the Pro Bowl, well you are probably right...actually, no fans should be voting, but that is another topic entirely. I will say, though, that I will be voting for the Pro Bowl next year, regardless of whether I think the game is meaningful or not (its not). It's an honor to be invited to the game, but to expect these players to put into the PB what they would put into a real game is preposterous.

I feel like a recording. Once again...NO ONE IS DISSECTING ANYTHING. We merely mentioned that Cutler makes the same mistakes regardless of the situation. Meaningless or not.

Now as far as the last paragraph, I'm confused. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like you are saying players should not put forth the effort to excel in a game they were honorably elected to play in.

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 02:43 PM
I feel like a recording. Once again...NO ONE IS DISSECTING ANYTHING. We merely mentioned that Cutler makes the same mistakes regardless of the situation. Meaningless or not.


Me too. I agree Cutler needs to become a better player...but again, he is a young player in a meaningless game...yet it garners several threads and hundreds of posts about his performance. Again, it was the Pro Bowl. Who cares?


Now as far as the last paragraph, I'm confused. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounds like you are saying players should not put forth the effort to excel in a game they were honorably elected to play in.

I addressed this before you removed and reposted.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 02:47 PM
Me too. I agree Cutler needs to become a better player...but again, he is a young player in a meaningless game...yet it garners several threads and hundreds of posts about his performance. Again, it was the Pro Bowl. Who cares?


There are a ton of posts because a few people insist on making more of the thoughts and comments that me, Joe, Nomad and Turf have made. I've reposted our thoughts on this countless times, but it keeps getting rehashed with a different twist that simply never existed from the beginning.

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 02:49 PM
I just don't understand why Cutler gets a "pass" from everyone when he continuously makes the same mistake over and over again.

We're not ripping on him, but to say that he throws too many picks in critical stages of the game isn't wrong. In fact, it is 100% correct and needs to be addressed.

Pro-Bowl or otherwise.

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 02:50 PM
There are a ton of posts because a few people insist on making more of the thoughts and comments that me, Joe, Nomad and Turf have made. I've reposted our thoughts on this countless times, but it keeps getting rehashed with a different twist that simply never existed from the beginning.

I guess the few people fail to see the significance in the fact that a guy over a month removed from his last game made similar decisions as he did in 16 previous games.

Oops there I go making excuses again.

turftoad
02-09-2009, 02:50 PM
I just don't understand why Cutler gets a "pass" from everyone when he continuously makes the same mistake over and over again.

We're not ripping on him, but to say that he throws too many picks in critical stages of the game isn't wrong. In fact, it is 100% correct and needs to be addressed.

Pro-Bowl or otherwise.

Some have on thier Orange tinted glasses i guess Joe.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 02:50 PM
Why not?

It's an honor to be selected as an elite player for the year...by the fans, media, coaches, and other players.

If you expect ANY of the players to put in the time to prepare for the Pro Bowl that they put into a regular season game, then I don't really know what to tell you. Most of the guys on the field probaly havent even touched a football or watched a clip of film in over a month.

Sure they want to play well, but if they were REALLY that concerned about playing their best game, they would have practiced for more than 45 min a day and put in time watching film of the players on the opposing team. The fact that they spet more time on the beach than they did on the practice field should tell you all you need to know about how important the game was to them.

Fair assessment, but these players are also here because they are more skilled and talented than the rest of the NFL. Yes, the lack of practice time does create some chemistry issues, but I guarantee you once they hit the field and play the game..they probably care a whole lot more than what most of us think.

But...let's assume for arguments sake that none of them really care all that much. Then why was Cutler under pressure? I mean if the NFC d-line doesnt care, then why would they rush him? Why was his ill-advised pass picked off? I mean if no one cares, then the things that result from bad decisions wouldnt happen.

Again, no one is judging his career or future on the outcome of his performance. Just simply noting that he made the exact same decisions and mistakes in this game that he does in the games he does care about.

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 02:51 PM
I just don't understand why Cutler gets a "pass" from everyone when he continuously makes the same mistake over and over again.

We're not ripping on him, but to say that he throws too many picks in critical stages of the game isn't wrong. In fact, it is 100% correct and needs to be addressed.

Pro-Bowl or otherwise.

I agree...except for the last sentence. I'm not giving the guy I pass, but I'm not going to make any judgements or assessments based on a Pro Bowl game.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 02:53 PM
I agree...except for the last sentence. I'm not giving the guy I pass, but I'm not going to make any judgements or assessments based on a Pro Bowl game.

Neither are we. We just find it interesting that regardless of the seriousness of a game or the players on the field...he still makes the same very correctable mistakes.

Lonestar
02-09-2009, 02:56 PM
Fair assessment, but these players are also here because they are more skilled and talented than the rest of the NFL. Yes, the lack of practice time does create some chemistry issues, but I guarantee you once they hit the field and play the game..they probably care a whole lot more than what most of us think.

But...let's assume for arguments sake that none of them really care all that much. Then why was Cutler under pressure? I mean if the NFC d-line doesnt care, then why would they rush him? Why was his ill-advised pass picked off? I mean if no one cares, then the things that result from bad decisions wouldnt happen.

Again, no one is judging his career or future on the outcome of his performance. Just simply noting that he made the exact same decisions and mistakes in this game that he does in the games he does care about.


You got it It is pride and the extra 22.5 counts also..

Frankly folks unless you have not figured it out these guys that do show up are athlete some of the best in the world and taking what is got to get here even flag football would be competitive..

Some folks handle pressure better than others time for Jay to manning up..

RunYouOver
02-09-2009, 02:56 PM
How, exactly, is this surprising?

Jay Cutler is Jay Cutler.

He's not going to be Peyton Manning in the pro bowl, he's going to be Jay Cutler.

I don't see why he'd play any differently than usual?:confused:

topscribe
02-09-2009, 02:56 PM
Yep. Like throw 18 picks during the regular season. 2nd in the league behind Mr. INT himself, Bret Favre.

You are still throwing out shallow stats, Joe. First, it stands to reason that a
QB who is constantly playing from behind might have a higher percentage of
INTs than he might otherwise.

Second is in the percentage itself. The number of INTs is meaningless unless it
is compared against the number of passes attempted. With that in mind,
Cutler's INT percentage is a little high at 2.9%, as opposed to Warner's (2.3),
Rodgers' (2.4), Cassel's (2.1), Eli Manning's (2.1), Peyton's (2.2), Rivers' (2.3),
and Pennington's mind-blowing 1.5.

However, it is equivalent or under other QBs, such as Brees' (2.7), Ben's (3.2),
Palmer's (3.1), Romo's (3.1), and Delhomme's (2.9). "Mr. INT's" ratio, BTW,
was 4.2 :shocked:, way over Cutler's.

So, while one can look at Cutler's 18 INTs, one has also to look at Cutler's
number of passing attempts (616), yards (4,526), and the "defense" that was
supposed to allow fewer TDs by opponents and get opponents off the field.

As it is, yes, Cutler needs to improve . . . a fallacy of QBs who are guilty of
being young . . . but his performance last year was a whole lot better than
what you are endeavoring to put across.

-----

topscribe
02-09-2009, 02:58 PM
Some have on thier Orange tinted glasses i guess Joe.

Or maybe some are just trying to inject some objectivity into this . . . :coffee:

-----

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 02:58 PM
How, exactly, is this surprising?

Jay Cutler is Jay Cutler.

He's not going to be Peyton Manning in the pro bowl, he's going to be Jay Cutler.

I don't see why he'd play any differently than usual?:confused:

Surprising isnt the word. Interesting...Disappointing...etc.

But if this is Jay Cutler regardless of the team, talent and practice...then Jay Cutler needs to figure a few things out pretty quick.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 03:00 PM
You are still throwing out shallow stats, Joe. First, it stands to reason that a
QB who is constantly playing from behind might have a higher percentage of
INTs than he might otherwise.

Second is in the percentage itself. The number of INTs is meaningless unless it
is compared against the number of passes attempted. With that in mind,
Cutler's INT percentage is a little high at 2.9%, as opposed to Warner's (2.3),
Rodgers' (2.4), Cassel's (2.1), Eli Manning's (2.1), Peyton's (2.2), Rivers' (2.3),
and Pennington's mind-blowing 1.5.

However, it is equivalent or under other QBs, such as Brees' (2.7), Ben's (3.2),
Palmer's (3.1), Romo's (3.1), and Delhomme's (2.9). "Mr. INT's" ratio, BTW,
was 4.2 :shocked:, way over Cutler's.

So, while one can look at Cutler's 18 INTs, one has also to look at Cutler's
number of passing attempts (616), yards (4,526), and the "defense" that was
supposed to allow fewer TDs by opponents and get opponents off the field.

As it is, yes, Cutler needs to improve . . . a fallacy of QBs who are guilty of
being young . . . but his performance last year was a whole lot better than
what you are endeavoring to put across.

-----

Good points, but based on this philosophy, shouldnt we also expect more than 25 TD passes? it can go both ways

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 03:02 PM
Some have on thier Orange tinted glasses i guess Joe.

Nah no glasses here. I don't think Cutler is a top QB in the league just yet...I just dont understand why anyone would care about how aplayer performed at the PB.

I mean, do you think Arizona fans are throwing parties because Fitz won MVP? I bet it's not even on their minds...they are probably more worried about how they just lost their OC...or how they may lose their star QB and star WR.

I dunno I just don't see any reason to even discuss pro bowl performances...but I will be the first to critisize Cutler's performance in a real game. I actually pissed a few people off in game day threads this season when Cutler was sucking. :lol:

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:03 PM
Good points, but based on this philosophy, shouldnt we also expect more than 25 TD passes? it can go both ways

Well, of course we should. But how is that relevant to my point? I already
agreed with you that Cutler needs to improve in several areas. I only proposed
that I believe he will, unless you think that's unreasonable, too.

Anyway, if we're going the TD route, here are what a few of the others did:

Delhomme 15
Fitzpatrick/Palmer 11 (combined)
Romo 26
Peyton 27
Pennington 19
Cassel 21
Eli 21
Favre 22
McNabb 23
Roethlisberger 17
Collins 12

So, considering all these QBs are more experienced than Cutler, I guess 25 is
not all that unreasonable, is it?



(I went ahead and removed my self-Hi-5. :D )

-----

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 03:06 PM
Surprising isnt the word....Disappointing...etc.



I'll admit I was disappointed while watching the game...but 10 minutes later I had forgotten about it and went back to being optimistic about the 2009 season under McD.

If he had played like that during the season (which he did this year) I would tend to dwell on it throughout the week. This time I didnt really care much...I'm sure he's probably over it, too.

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 03:09 PM
Good points, but based on this philosophy, shouldnt we also expect more than 25 TD passes? it can go both ways

Every single guy mentioned had fewer attempts (except Brees) yet more TD's and fewer INT's.

Oh, and Ben won the SuperBowl.

fcspikeit
02-09-2009, 03:16 PM
I don't and I didn't watch the game.



However I can still see Coach's point. All he wants is for his QB to learn from his mistakes.

I'm pretty sure McD was watching the game closely, with a keen eye on his new players. I have a feeling he'll teach Jay to check down, and not force so many balls.

it's not like Jay sucks. He has a few things he needs to work on. I have confidence that he'll mature.

He was throwing the check down on the int. The back was standing right off the line, I would guess he should have rolled out or at least got some separation. Anyways, Jay checked down as he was supposed to do, Peppers made a great play and jumped the throw... The only thing Cutler could have done differently was go down and not try and dump the ball off.

I do not want a QB who leans into the rush cradling the ball or falls to the ground every time a defender is near. All people see is the 1 int.. They don't take into account everything that happened during the play. The rush game almost untouched, there was a defender pulling on his leg. When the play broke down, he turned immediately to the check down. as he was throwing the ball his leg was pulled taking something off the throw and Peppers jumped it... People are making a big deal out of nothing!


It wasn't an unnecessary risk, it was 3rd down with his team behind at the end of the game, if he didn't care about trying to win he would have fell down to avoid injury and took the sack. Instead, he was trying to make a play... Good QB's do it all the time. You will never win anything if you simply take a sack every time a defender gets near you.

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:18 PM
Every single guy mentioned had fewer attempts (except Brees) yet more TD's and fewer INT's.

Oh, and Ben won the SuperBowl.

Yep. Alllllll by himself . . . :coffee:

And check back on my immediately previous post, which I edited. Most did not
have more TDs. Best go and verify the statistics before laying those claims.

-----

turftoad
02-09-2009, 03:21 PM
Every single guy mentioned had fewer attempts (except Brees) yet more TD's and fewer INT's.

Oh, and Ben won the SuperBowl.

Nah, Pittsburg has a defense.

Defenses win Championships.

That's why we weren't even close. :D

Magnificent Seven
02-09-2009, 03:23 PM
That was his first pro bowl and he didn't have any experience with different players from another teams.

Experienced- pre-season games, regular games, and pro bowl game.

No Experience- playoff game, and super bowl

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 03:24 PM
Well, of course we should. But how is that relevant to my point? I already
agreed with you that Cutler needs to improve in several areas. I only proposed
that I believe he will, unless you think that's unreasonable, too.

Anyway, if we're going the TD route, here are what a few of the others did:

Delhomme 15
Fitzpatrick/Palmer 11 (combined)
Romo 26
Peyton 27
Pennington 19
Cassel 21
Eli 21
Favre 22
McNabb 23
Roethlisberger 17
Collins 12

So, considering all these QBs are more experienced than Cutler, I guess 25 is
not all that unreasonable, is it?




(Yes, I did Hi-5 my own post since others are Hi-5ing shallow statistics.)

-----

I understand your point and I agree. What I was saying is that if more interceptions, more yards and more opportunities for error all come with throwing more passes...then one should reasonablt expect that more TD's would come with that as well.

Now, if Cutler doesnt throw 7 red zone INT's, then he only has 11 INT's compared to 32 TD's. But then again...the fact that he has a distinct habit of throwing INT's at the most inopportune times is pretty much the point of this discussion to begin with.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 03:25 PM
That was his first pro bowl and he didn't have any experience with different players from another teams.

Experienced- pre-season games, regular games, and pro bowl game.

No Experience- playoff game, and super bowl

But he plays the same way and does the same things in the games you say he is experienced in.

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 03:28 PM
Cutler was ranked 13th in TD%/attempt.

Tied for 7th (in the not good category) in INT%/attempt.

Check YOUR stats.

tia.

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:31 PM
Cutler was ranked 13th in TD%/attempt.

Tied for 7th in INT%/attempt.

Check YOUR stats.

tia.

Check my stats? I reproduced them here, and I was the only one to do so.

Anyway, you made my point precisely. 13th in TDs and 7th in INTs. Among
QBs, most with way more experience. Not bad for a kid in his second year on
the field. ;)

-----

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 03:33 PM
Check my stats? I reproduced them here, and I was the only one to do so.

Anyway, you made my point precisely. 13th in TDs and 7th in INTs. Among
QBs, most with way more experience. Not bad for a kid in his second year on
the field. ;)

-----

I think that's where the communication breaks down.

Some see him as a kid finishing his 2nd full season. Others see him as a Pro-Bowl QB.

Fair or not, the standard for each is different, so we have to pick one of the two. Unfortunately, some flip between the two depending on which way their argument is going

Lonestar
02-09-2009, 03:34 PM
Check my stats? I reproduced them here, and I was the only one to do so.

Anyway, you made my point precisely. 13th in TDs and 7th in INTs. Among
QBs, most with way more experience. Not bad for a kid in his second year on
the field. ;)

-----

eh try third.. or 2.33 if you want to get tight on it..

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:34 PM
I think that's where the communication breaks down.

Some see him as a kid finishing his 2nd full season. Others see him as a Pro-Bowl QB.

Fair or not, the standard for each is different, so we have to pick one of the two.

Why is that?

I see him as a kid finishing his 2nd full season, who is already a Pro Bowl QB.


That is what he is, on both counts. :noidea:

-----

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:36 PM
eh try third.. or 2.33 if you want to get tight on it..

If you want to get tight on it, most of the year was his second on the field.

-----

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 03:37 PM
I just don't understand why people so vehemently defend his picks. IT IS A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 03:38 PM
Why is that?

I see him as a kid finishing his 2nd full season, who is already a Pro Bowl QB.


That is what he is, on both counts. :noidea:

-----

Yeah, but using the term "kid in his 2nd year on the field" allows for errors and mistakes and creates an excuse for those.

Pro Bowl QB takes away from the fact that he is expected to make those mistakes.

SOME people are too quick to bounce between the two descriptions based on what feeds their current argument.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 03:40 PM
I just don't understand why people so vehemently defend his picks. IT IS A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

I could see 18 picks if they went with 40 TD's or if 3 or 4 came on end of the half or end of the game hailmary's and 3 or 4 were tipped or bobbled balls.

But when almost half of them come in the red zone and another 3 or 4 kill important drives...then something really needs to be worked on.

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:41 PM
I just don't understand why people so vehemently defend his picks. IT IS A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

Who is defending Cutler's picks? You are not pointing me out, are you? I'm
trying to be objective about it. I'm not placing him on a pedestal, and would
take issue with anybody who does. I also take issue with you posters here
who are hammering on him.

It all began with the comparisons to Jeff George. All this crap about Cutler's
foibles has been exaggerated here. I'm not trying to excuse them. I'm only
trying to bring it back to reality.

-----

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:42 PM
I could see 18 picks if they went with 40 TD's or if 3 or 4 came on end of the half or end of the game hailmary's and 3 or 4 were tipped or bobbled balls.

But when almost half of them come in the red zone and another 3 or 4 kill important drives...then something really needs to be worked on.

I guess you missed the part where I went to all the effort to present the
interception percentages of the various QBs.

I give up. Believe what you want to. You're going to, anyway, obviously.

It is not reasonable to try to be objective here, apparently.

-----

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 03:48 PM
I guess you missed the part where I went to all the effort to present the
interception percentages of the various QBs.

I give up. Believe what you want to. You're going to, anyway, obviously.

It is not reasonable to try to be objective here, apparently.

-----

Top...I completely see where you are coming from when comparing him to other QB's, but to a certain degree, I could care less about their numbers and on another level, many of them dont have the talent Jay does. The concerm me and Joe are trying to express is WHEN thes mistakes occur.

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:50 PM
Top...I completely see where you are coming from when comparing him to other QB's, but to a certain degree, I could care less about their numbers and on another level, many of them dont have the talent Jay does. The concerm me and Joe are trying to express is WHEN thes mistakes occur.

Agreed on this. You think I haven't yelled, "What the hell you doin', Jay??"

I guess, in the long run, I have a lot of patience with young players, which is what he is.

-----

RunYouOver
02-09-2009, 03:51 PM
I really am disturbed that people are making decisions that Cutler won't ever be great based off three seasons. TWO full seasons. That's it. TWO full seasons. We threw the ball a LOT this past season, and had no running game. Obviously, he's going to throw a decent amount of INTs as a relatively inexperienced QB without a running game.


It happens.

Give the guy 2 more years before you judge him.

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:53 PM
I really am disturbed that people are making decisions that Cutler won't ever be great based off three seasons. TWO full seasons. That's it. TWO full seasons. We threw the ball a LOT this past season, and had no running game. Obviously, he's going to throw a decent amount of INTs as a relatively inexperienced QB without a running game.


It happens.

Give the guy 2 more years before you judge him.

Which makes me wonder whether Cutler ever looked at the Falcons' defense and envied Ryan just a little bit . . .

-----

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 03:53 PM
Agreed on this. You think I haven't yelled, "What the hell you doin', Jay??"

I guess, in the long run, I have a lot of patience with young players, which is what he is.

-----

So do I and I'm sure so does Joe. I think somewhere along the line, our concern of his untimely poor decisions got blown into something it isnt

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 03:54 PM
I really am disturbed that people are making decisions that Cutler won't ever be great based off three seasons. TWO full seasons. That's it. TWO full seasons. We threw the ball a LOT this past season, and had no running game. Obviously, he's going to throw a decent amount of INTs as a relatively inexperienced QB without a running game.


It happens.

Give the guy 2 more years before you judge him.

Please show me where this was said

topscribe
02-09-2009, 03:55 PM
So do I and I'm sure so does Joe. I think somewhere along the line, our concern of his untimely poor decisions got blown into something it isnt

Typical of off-season posting on a football board, as Dread implied.

Makes me wonder sometimes if I have a life . . . :tsk:

-----

RunYouOver
02-09-2009, 04:00 PM
Please show me where this was said

It hasn't been said.

And that's exactly my point. If everyone agrees that there's the possibility he can be great, why bother arguing his performance after, really, Year 2.

And if people don't think he COULD be great, maybe you should just give him some more time before making your decisions.

My point is; He hasn't played enough time to judge him as a football player.

From the physical standpoint, he has the potential to be better than Brady, Manning, hell just about everyone in the league. From the mental standpoint, he still has growing to do. And that can only improve with time.

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:07 PM
Don't be so hard on yourself Chaz! Many here understand what you are saying, but you know what next year these posters better not vote Cutler or any other BRONCO to the PRO BOWL because it's meaningless game and why waste the players/fans time!

I can vote for whomever i choose if i feel they deserve it. Hence why i didnt vote for Champ this year. The game is for fun so at the end of the day those guys are just going out to fool around. If it was meant to be serious they wouldnt have so many restrictions on what to call and what formations to run. Sounds like you make more of that game than the NFL actually does. :lol:

LRtagger
02-09-2009, 04:08 PM
Which makes me wonder whether Cutler ever looked at the Falcons' defense and envied Ryan just a little bit . . .

-----

Moreso Matt Ryan's backfield than defense.

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:09 PM
Again, why do you people who say its a worthless game bother voting players in from the BRONCOS?? So next year, you won't be hypocrites and vote any BRONCO players to the PRO BOWL, right!!!!

Who the **** are you to say who votes in who?

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:11 PM
I do too, but I don't expect it right now. If he isn't making an improvement by week 8 of next season, that is when I would start worrying.

What do you know? Someone who actually gets it! I thought for a minute i was in the twilight zone.

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:16 PM
I just don't understand why Cutler gets a "pass" from everyone when he continuously makes the same mistake over and over again.

We're not ripping on him, but to say that he throws too many picks in critical stages of the game isn't wrong. In fact, it is 100% correct and needs to be addressed.

Pro-Bowl or otherwise.


He gets a pass because he is still learning and maturing as a QB. The constant whining about his mistakes is baffling considering the guy just finished his second season. And INT's? Yea, they will go up because he had no running game to count on. Did you not watch the games this year? Whether you blame Shanny's scheme or the lack of a running game it doesnt change the fact that the poor schmuck had to air it out all year long.

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:19 PM
I see him as a kid finishing his 2nd full season, who is already a Pro Bowl QB.




-----


Amazing that somehow you cant be both isnt it? My god some people have lost it on here. :tsk::lol:

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 04:20 PM
This thread has become epic.

Lonestar
02-09-2009, 04:28 PM
He gets a pass because he is still learning and maturing as a QB. The constant whining about his mistakes is baffling considering the guy just finished his second season. And INT's? Yea, they will go up because he had no running game to count on. Did you not watch the games this year? Whether you blame Shanny's scheme or the lack of a running game it doesnt change the fact that the poor schmuck had to air it out all year long.


all of which you say is true no consistent running game, lousy d poor scheme..

But what counts are the red zone picks and throwing into double or triple coverage when others were open..

Regardless of arm strength and lack of maturity that is what bugs us..

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:28 PM
I think the "I" virus has spread onto here from the Mane.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 04:28 PM
Amazing that somehow you cant be both isnt it? My god some people have lost it on here. :tsk::lol:

Yeah, expecting a Pro-Bowl QB to not make 2nd year player mistakes. It's INSANITY!!!!

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:29 PM
all of which you say is true no consistent running game, lousy d poor scheme..

But what counts are the red zone picks and throwing into double or triple coverage when others were open..

Regardless of arm strength and lack of maturity that is what bugs us..

Like ive said a hundred times. Talk to me in a couple of years. If he is still doing those things than you guys can celebrate or dance or whatever it is you think you need to do. But at least give the kid a chance to grow as a player. Your not telling anyone anything new here. Everyone knows what he needs to work on. The constant hammering on him is truly unecessary at this point.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 04:31 PM
I think the "I" virus has spread onto here from the Mane.

I think people that resort to riduculing those that refuse to accept mediocrity and aptly state why are pretty pathetic.

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:31 PM
Yeah, expecting a Pro-Bowl QB to not make 2nd year player mistakes. It's INSANITY!!!!

I didnt realize that making the Pro Bowl meant that you were immune to growing as a player or making mistakes. Wow, talk about clueless.

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 04:32 PM
... had to air it out all year long. ...

Whatever. Our coaching staff gave up the run and wanted to pass. I've posted the stats to much, I have them memorized.

Tied for 3rd in YPC
12th in total rushing yards.

28th in attempts.

Don't give me the BS that we were forced to pass. We decided to pass too early. Period.

Lonestar
02-09-2009, 04:33 PM
Like ive said a hundred times. Talk to me in a couple of years. If he is still doing those things than you guys can celebrate or dance or whatever it is you think you need to do. But at least give the kid a chance to grow as a player. Your not telling anyone anything new here. Everyone knows what he needs to work on. The constant hammering on him is truly unecessary at this point.

yet many put their tinted glasses on and drink the Jay is a pro bowler and is great without acknowledging he makes Epic errors at times.. and excuse it all on lack of support form team and coaches..

A simple caveat in some of those posts stating that Jay needs to THINK before making Bone headed mistakes would suffice..

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:34 PM
Whatever. Our coaching staff gave up the run and wanted to pass. I've posted the stats to much, I have them memorized.

Tied for 3rd in YPC
12th in total rushing yards.

28th in attempts.

Don't give me the BS that we were forced to pass. We decided to pass too early. Period.

Oh, and somehow thats on Jay's shoulders? :lol::lol::lol:

Since when was he the Coach of this team?

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 04:35 PM
I didnt realize that making the Pro Bowl meant that you were immune to growing as a player or making mistakes. Wow, talk about clueless.

Why does everything resort to name-calling with you? Talk about needing to grow.

It's obvious you completely miss the point, so why bother interjecting your adolescence every time someone says something you disagree with? Everyone else is providing stats and scenarios and you come out calling people insane and clueless. Good job, moderator.

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:37 PM
yet many put their tinted glasses on and drink the Jay is a pro bowler and is great without acknowledging he makes Epic errors at times.. and excuse it all on lack of support form team and coaches..

A simple caveat in some of those posts stating that Jay needs to THINK before making Bone headed mistakes would suffice..


Just because a player makes the Pro Bowl does not mean they are HOF material or that they are a Champion. Jay made the Pro Bowl based off stats he accumilated this year. Doesnt mean he doesnt have a ways to go in terms of being better as a player and no one has ever denied that. Please, if someone on here has claimed that he is perfect than by all means post some examples. You've got my curiosity brewing now.

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:38 PM
Why does everything resort to name-calling with you? Talk about needing to grow.

It's obvious you completely miss the point, so why bother interjecting your adolescence every time someone says something you disagree with? Everyone else is providing stats and scenarios and you come out calling people insane and clueless. Good job, .

Edited for accuracy.

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 04:39 PM
Edited for accuracy.

Title or not...It's always the same.

NameUsedBefore
02-09-2009, 04:44 PM
Again, why do you people who say its a worthless game bother voting players in from the BRONCOS?? So next year, you won't be hypocrites and vote any BRONCO players to the PRO BOWL, right!!!!

I don't vote on players for the Pro Bowl based on the game, but the prestige involved. I don't go, "You know, I'd like to see Manning hook it up with Randy Moss." No, it's that Manning and Moss are the best at their positions, and if either of them fail to show up in the Pro Bowl -- just like every o-lineman ever -- I'm not gonna let that influence my thinking of them. The game could not mean less, both aesthetically or what else.

I do not believe it should really take more than both Elway and Aikman saying they frequently just toss the game so as to maintain their own health to show how stupid the game is as well as the effort the players put into it.



Whatever. Our coaching staff gave up the run and wanted to pass. I've posted the stats to much, I have them memorized.

Tied for 3rd in YPC
12th in total rushing yards.

28th in attempts.

Don't give me the BS that we were forced to pass. We decided to pass too early. Period.

Stats and damn stats, yadda yadda.

It was fairly clear going into some games that we wanted to run, but either A) We lost the starting running back. B) By half-time running was out of the question.

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 04:52 PM
I don't vote on players for the Pro Bowl based on the game, but the prestige involved. I don't go, "You know, I'd like to see Manning hook it up with Randy Moss." No, it's that Manning and Moss are the best at their positions, and if either of them fail to show up in the Pro Bowl -- just like every o-lineman ever -- I'm not gonna let that influence my thinking of them. The game could not mean less, both aesthetically or what else.

I do not believe it should really take more than both Elway and Aikman saying they frequently just toss the game so as to maintain their own health to show how stupid the game is as well as the effort the players put into it.




Stats and damn stats, yadda yadda.

It was fairly clear going into some games that we wanted to run, but either A) We lost the starting running back. B) By half-time running was out of the question.

Disagree. We gave up on it too quickly. Run the ball, keep your defense and their offense off the field, eat up the clock. Tied for third in YPC is significant. Ranked 28th in attempts is as well.

honz
02-09-2009, 04:52 PM
Mark Sanchez at #12 anyone? Josh Freeman?

topscribe
02-09-2009, 04:52 PM
So do I and I'm sure so does Joe. I think somewhere along the line, our concern of his untimely poor decisions got blown into something it isnt

Hell with Joe.

I don't know how you can trust anybody who drives a Jeep Liberty . . .

-----

Magnificent Seven
02-09-2009, 04:55 PM
KO OLINA, HAWAII - My first Pro Bowl is under my belt.

The game went OK –- it was so hot down there on the field and probably also six rows up behind our bench where Ryan (Clady), Eddie (Royal) and Tony (Scheffler) were sitting. I went in there in the fourth quarter after Peyton (Manning) and Kerry (Collins) had played.

The pass rush picked up quite a bit when I got in. We got a touchdown on the first drive when I rolled the ball between the legs of Le’Ron McClain and he picked it up and took it in. There was some confusion early on the play getting it going, but it turned out pretty well. Couldn’t get much going on the final two drives though.

It was a great experience being around everyone for the week. After the game, there was this little reception right on the water at our hotel. Fireworks, the whole deal.

Nnamdi Asomugha came up to me and told me it was the first of many Pro Bowls for me. That was cool of him to say, and the same is true for him. Andy Reid of the Eagles stopped by my table and said hi.

I had heard people talking all week about how everyone sings karaoke the Sunday night after the game, so I was kind of waiting around for that to start. It was hilarious. I got coaxed into singing some Garth Brooks ("Friends in Low Places") with Peyton (Manning) and Jake (Long). We got it done.

Today is going to be a beach day before we fly back to Denver around midnight. Most people are checking out earlier in the day. Going to do my best to enjoy the last bit of Hawaii before heading home.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8829

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 04:55 PM
Hell with Joe.

I don't know how you can trust anybody who drives a Jeep Liberty . . .

-----

Yeah, typically I wouldnt align myself with people of his sort, but I made an exception.

Northman
02-09-2009, 04:57 PM
I had heard people talking all week about how everyone sings karaoke the Sunday night after the game, so I was kind of waiting around for that to start. It was hilarious. I got coaxed into singing some Garth Brooks ("Friends in Low Places") with Peyton (Manning) and Jake (Long). We got it done.



I would love to see video of that. That would be hilarious.

honz
02-09-2009, 04:57 PM
KO OLINA, HAWAII - My first Pro Bowl is under my belt.

The game went OK –- it was so hot down there on the field and probably also six rows up behind our bench where Ryan (Clady), Eddie (Royal) and Tony (Scheffler) were sitting. I went in there in the fourth quarter after Peyton (Manning) and Kerry (Collins) had played.

The pass rush picked up quite a bit when I got in. We got a touchdown on the first drive when I rolled the ball between the legs of Le’Ron McClain and he picked it up and took it in. There was some confusion early on the play getting it going, but it turned out pretty well. Couldn’t get much going on the final two drives though.

It was a great experience being around everyone for the week. After the game, there was this little reception right on the water at our hotel. Fireworks, the whole deal.

Nnamdi Asomugha came up to me and told me it was the first of many Pro Bowls for me. That was cool of him to say, and the same is true for him. Andy Reid of the Eagles stopped by my table and said hi.

I had heard people talking all week about how everyone sings karaoke the Sunday night after the game, so I was kind of waiting around for that to start. It was hilarious. I got coaxed into singing some Garth Brooks ("Friends in Low Places") with Peyton (Manning) and Jake (Long). We got it done.

Today is going to be a beach day before we fly back to Denver around midnight. Most people are checking out earlier in the day. Going to do my best to enjoy the last bit of Hawaii before heading home.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8829

He's already partying and having a good time after just blowing the game for the entire AFC yesterday? Yeah, he's a real winner. He doesn't even care. :coffee:

CoachChaz
02-09-2009, 04:57 PM
KO OLINA, HAWAII - My first Pro Bowl is under my belt.

The game went OK –- it was so hot down there on the field and probably also six rows up behind our bench where Ryan (Clady), Eddie (Royal) and Tony (Scheffler) were sitting. I went in there in the fourth quarter after Peyton (Manning) and Kerry (Collins) had played.

The pass rush picked up quite a bit when I got in. We got a touchdown on the first drive when I rolled the ball between the legs of Le’Ron McClain and he picked it up and took it in. There was some confusion early on the play getting it going, but it turned out pretty well. Couldn’t get much going on the final two drives though.

It was a great experience being around everyone for the week. After the game, there was this little reception right on the water at our hotel. Fireworks, the whole deal.

Nnamdi Asomugha came up to me and told me it was the first of many Pro Bowls for me. That was cool of him to say, and the same is true for him. Andy Reid of the Eagles stopped by my table and said hi.

I had heard people talking all week about how everyone sings karaoke the Sunday night after the game, so I was kind of waiting around for that to start. It was hilarious. I got coaxed into singing some Garth Brooks ("Friends in Low Places") with Peyton (Manning) and Jake (Long). We got it done.

Today is going to be a beach day before we fly back to Denver around midnight. Most people are checking out earlier in the day. Going to do my best to enjoy the last bit of Hawaii before heading home.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8829

The "Cutler is going to talk to Asomugha about coming to Denver" threads are inevitable now

NameUsedBefore
02-09-2009, 04:59 PM
Disagree. We gave up on it too quickly. Run the ball, keep your defense and their offense off the field, eat up the clock. Tied for third in YPC is significant. Ranked 28th in attempts is as well.

Tied 3rd in YPC is significant, but as you know the pass can set up the run just as well as the other way around. The Jets game is the most obvious example of this.

The Broncos made as good a use of their run game as possible. However, you can't really keep running if your starter is crap, your starter gets injured (7 on IR?) or you're down by a lot of points (this... a lot). Denver faced all of these time and time again.

Slick
02-09-2009, 05:08 PM
Losing Pittman, who showed a nose for the endzone before he got hurt, and not realizing that Hillis could actually tote the pill until way too late in the season, inflated Jay's "inopportune" INT #'s IMO.




I don't see any Jay haters here, just fans with constructive criticisms and valid concerns.

Lonestar
02-09-2009, 05:17 PM
Losing Pittman, who showed a nose for the endzone before he got hurt, and not realizing that Hillis could actually tote the pill until way too late in the season, inflated Jay's "inopportune" INT #'s IMO.




I don't see any Jay haters here, just fans with constructive criticisms and valid concerns.

Best post of the thread we can probably close it now..

topscribe
02-09-2009, 05:20 PM
This thread has become a septic.

Edited for accuracy.

-----

Thnikkaman
02-09-2009, 05:42 PM
Can someone give me Jay's or Dove Vally's number so that I can call them and express our concerns?

Lonestar
02-09-2009, 05:52 PM
Can someone give me Jay's or Dove Vally's number so that I can call them and express our concerns?


303 numbnuts

Thnikkaman
02-09-2009, 06:00 PM
303 numbnuts

No. That is my cell number.

BroncoJoe
02-09-2009, 06:26 PM
hell with joe.

I don't know how you can trust anybody who drives a jeep liberty . . .

-----


yeah, typically i wouldnt align myself with people of his sort, but i made an exception.

..-. ..- -.-. -.- / -.-- --- ..- / -... --- - ....

JKcatch724
02-09-2009, 06:47 PM
Couldn’t get much going on the final two drives though.

Is that it? He's not talking about how the final two drives were prime examples of his ineptitude in the face of pressure situations and how all of his doubters have feasted on the trivial outcomes of two drives in a meaningless games?

Has he lost his mind? :cool:

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 12:03 AM
I still saw a young Qb playing out there.

At what point is he going to no longer be a "young QB"?


Just askin..... :coffee:

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 12:08 AM
On the pick, he was on the other end of the field, and had Ware draped all over him, after two or three plays in a row with defenders right in his face at every release.

So. .. it was a similar situation as to the whole season. With little time left, and with no hope of a running attack because of the time on the clock, JC is asked to bail out the team with a critical drive virtually all by himself. While trying to avoid defenders who don't have to worry about any run-game responsibilities and while tangled up with a defensive end he made a bad decision. Yep. ..that pretty much sums up our season. When I use the initials JC it stands for Jay Cutler, not Jesus Christ. . . the kid can only do so much.

Do you really care this much about his performance in the Pro Bowl Joe?

Waaaaaa

Ever able to just say "yea...he sucked ass!"?

ya'll might try.....you then might have some credibility. :tsk:

He' a turnover machine. Prolly always will be....just like Favre...yet another in a long line of "rocket-armed qb's".

Give me a Brady/Manning and a slightly above average arm any ol' day....not to mention, their smarts. :coffee:

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 12:14 AM
Right. And still the O-line could not stop the rush. It is a fact that Cutler had
no time to throw the ball anywhere. It is true that his INT throw was ill-
advised, but, as I mentioned elsewhere, it is also true that, if the rusher who
had Cutler's leg wrapped up had been adequately blocked, it would not have
been an issue.

But Cutler was absolutely harassed. Several of his passes were simply throw-
aways because there was nothing else to do with a pass rusher attached to
him.

In fact, I noted to myself at the time how grateful I am that the Broncos have
Clady, Harris, Kuper, Wiegmann, and Hamilton on the line. None of them went
to the Pro Bowl, of course, but all five of them are better than those who
were there. :beer:

-----

Last I heard, larry, a qb can throw the ball away, or even take the sack. Live to play another down.

He gets rattled, or cocky, he screws the pooch! Whatever happened to "they'll show in their 3rd yr whether they get it or not".

Guess what...he doesn't get it. :tsk:

Shazam!
02-10-2009, 12:33 AM
He's a turnover machine. Prolly always will be....just like Favre...yet another in a long line of "rocket-armed qb's"...

Like Elway. He sucks too.

topscribe
02-10-2009, 01:00 AM
Last I heard, larry, a qb can throw the ball away, or even take the sack. Live to play another down.

He gets rattled, or cocky, he screws the pooch! Whatever happened to "they'll show in their 3rd yr whether they get it or not".

Guess what...he doesn't get it. :tsk:

Actually, what you are providing is your private opinion of his general character.
Sorry, but I don't share it. I don't see that in him, generally.

Again, as I previously mentioned, Cutler's INT in the Pro Bowl was a freak incident.
As I reviewed it several times from different angles, I could see where Peppers
could be obscured from Cutler's view.

Cutler attempted what he should have in that instance: he threw it to his
safety valve. It so happened that Peppers came in as if he were rushing the
QB, then he suddenly dropped back into coverage, much the same thing as
Harrison did to Warner in the Super Bowl.

It did not appear to me so much as a reckless play on Cutler's part as it was a
stroke of genius on Peppers'.

-----

JKcatch724
02-10-2009, 02:57 AM
Waaaaaa

Ever able to just say "yea...he sucked ass!"?

ya'll might try.....you then might have some credibility. :tsk:

He' a turnover machine. Prolly always will be....just like Favre...yet another in a long line of "rocket-armed qb's".

Give me a Brady/Manning and a slightly above average arm any ol' day....not to mention, their smarts. :coffee:

You sound like a tool saying stuff like that. Since when does Cutler "suck ass"? I don't think he's the best quarterback in the world... and he's definitely got some stuff to work on, but by no means does he suck ass. I think your evaluation of him sucks ass. Jay committed a lot more turnovers than we all wanted, but that was due in large part to other factors.

And he's definitely no Favre. He's got a strong arm like Favre, but thats about it. If he's still throwing into triple coverage when he's 35, then you can talk about that crap.

fcspikeit
02-10-2009, 03:23 AM
Actually, what you are providing is your private opinion of his general character.
Sorry, but I don't share it. I don't see that in him, generally.

Again, as I previously mentioned, Cutler's INT in the Pro Bowl was a freak incident.
As I reviewed it several times from different angles, I could see where Peppers
could be obscured from Cutler's view.

Cutler attempted what he should have in that instance: he threw it to his
safety valve. It so happened that Peppers came in as if he were rushing the
QB, then he suddenly dropped back into coverage, much the same thing as
Harrison did to Warner in the Super Bowl.

It did not appear to me so much as a reckless play on Cutler's part as it was a
stroke of genius on Peppers'.

-----

I see your still fighting the good fight top... :salute:

IMO this thread is proof, it doesn't matter what is said, people just keep going back to the same thing. I have seen you layout this play at least 3 times, I have laid it out a couple more, those wanting to bash, just don't care.. They were looking for a reason, to throw more shit and they found it.

It wouldn't have mattered if he won the freaking game MVP. They would just say, big deal, he can't do it when it counts.

It reminds me of those guys you find at every party who are always yelling and making a big deal out of nothing to get attention... They will say something completely off base just to stand out and be noticed. I always wonder if they know they are the laughing stock of the room? Maybe they just don't care that everyone is rolling their eyes and trying to get away from them? Just as long as their being talked about, regardless the reason, they feel better about themselves for being in the spotlight...

TXBRONC
02-10-2009, 09:11 AM
I see your still fighting the good fight top... :salute:

IMO this thread is proof, it doesn't matter what is said, people just keep going back to the same thing. I have seen you layout this play at least 3 times, I have laid it out a couple more, those wanting to bash, just don't care.. They were looking for a reason, to throw more shit and they found it.

It wouldn't have mattered if he won the freaking game MVP. They would just say, big deal, he can't do it when it counts.

It reminds me of those guys you find at every party who are always yelling and making a big deal out of nothing to get attention... They will say something completely off base just to stand out and be noticed. I always wonder if they know they are the laughing stock of the room? Maybe they just don't care that everyone is rolling their eyes and trying to get away from them? Just as long as their being talked about, regardless the reason, they feel better about themselves for being in the spotlight...

You speak the truth. :sad:

CoachChaz
02-10-2009, 09:16 AM
I see your still fighting the good fight top... :salute:

IMO this thread is proof, it doesn't matter what is said, people just keep going back to the same thing. I have seen you layout this play at least 3 times, I have laid it out a couple more, those wanting to bash, just don't care.. They were looking for a reason, to throw more shit and they found it.

It wouldn't have mattered if he won the freaking game MVP. They would just say, big deal, he can't do it when it counts.

It reminds me of those guys you find at every party who are always yelling and making a big deal out of nothing to get attention... They will say something completely off base just to stand out and be noticed. I always wonder if they know they are the laughing stock of the room? Maybe they just don't care that everyone is rolling their eyes and trying to get away from them? Just as long as their being talked about, regardless the reason, they feel better about themselves for being in the spotlight...


What's the deal? Why do people insist on dropping a petty insult like this statement? So because a few people have an opinion and refuse to give Cutler an excuse every time he makes a mistake, they are suddenly acting like some idiot at a party? Grow up and READ

Before conclusions are drawn, understand that this all began with me, Joe, Nomad and turf simply stating that it was interesting that no matter the situation...Jay always makes the same mistakes. Whatever it's been blown up to from there is on those that have apparently misunderstood the 10 posts in this thread that reiterated that specifically.

NightTrainLayne
02-10-2009, 09:42 AM
What's the deal? Why do people insist on dropping a petty insult like this statement? So because a few people have an opinion and refuse to give Cutler an excuse every time he makes a mistake, they are suddenly acting like some idiot at a party? Grow up and READ

Before conclusions are drawn, understand that this all began with me, Joe, Nomad and turf simply stating that it was interesting that no matter the situation...Jay always makes the same mistakes. Whatever it's been blown up to from there is on those that have apparently misunderstood the 10 posts in this thread that reiterated that specifically.

Your analysis and your argument didn't include the phrase that Cutler "sucks ass". I think his response is directed at someone else who made that assinine statement.

CoachChaz
02-10-2009, 09:56 AM
Your analysis and your argument didn't include the phrase that Cutler "sucks ass". I think his response is directed at someone else who made that assinine statement.

Fair enough, but when you generalize like he did, it encompasses everyone.

Northman
02-10-2009, 10:02 AM
At what point is he going to no longer be a "young QB"?


Just askin..... :coffee:


As ive stated a couple times not only in this thread but the Jake thread give him a couple more years. Let me know when that sinks in. :coffee:

topscribe
02-10-2009, 11:21 AM
Fair enough, but when you generalize like he did, it encompasses everyone.

Unless you just felt it identified you . . . :coffee:







*It's fun insulting you, Coach* :D



-----

CoachChaz
02-10-2009, 12:03 PM
Unless you just felt it identified you . . . :coffee:







*It's fun insulting you, Coach* :D



-----

At least you do it out of love. I can handle that.

topscribe
02-10-2009, 12:05 PM
At least you do it out of love. I can handle that.

I'm glad you didn't hear me telling Clay how much I hate you.

-----

CoachChaz
02-10-2009, 12:32 PM
I'm glad you didn't hear me telling Clay how much I hate you.

-----

Clay is my bitch...he would have told me.

fcspikeit
02-10-2009, 04:22 PM
What's the deal? Why do people insist on dropping a petty insult like this statement? So because a few people have an opinion and refuse to give Cutler an excuse every time he makes a mistake, they are suddenly acting like some idiot at a party? Grow up and READ

Before conclusions are drawn, understand that this all began with me, Joe, Nomad and turf simply stating that it was interesting that no matter the situation...Jay always makes the same mistakes. Whatever it's been blown up to from there is on those that have apparently misunderstood the 10 posts in this thread that reiterated that specifically.

I singled no one out, you know rather my analogy hit home with you or not...

Either you were throwing shit for no reason or you weren't. If not, there is no reason to feel I was directing my post at you..

You know as well as I do coach, not everyone here was simply saying, "Jay made some of the same mistakes he made all year." Even I basically said that in either this or the Marshall sucks thread. Some here take every opportunity possible to get their digs in. IMO, it's pointless and doesn't contribute to the discussion in a positive way.

Very few here disagree with Cutler needing to improve in turnovers among other things. They are not disagreeing when that is pointed out, their disagreeing with the over all picture that is being painted...

Also, I don't think it is all that "interesting" Cutler played in the Probowl as he did all year.. He has barely touched a football, why would he play better? For me it sounds like just another reason to say, Cutler sucked in the Probowl, as he did all year..

Plus, IMO, he played worse in the Probowl then he did most of the year. Do we agree on that?

CoachChaz
02-10-2009, 04:41 PM
I singled no one out, you know rather my analogy hit home with you or not...

Either you were throwing shit for no reason or you weren't. If not, there is no reason to feel I was directing my post at you..

You know as well as I do coach, not everyone here was simply saying, "Jay made some of the same mistakes he made all year." Even I basically said that in either this or the Marshall sucks thread. Some here take every opportunity possible to get their digs in. IMO, it's pointless and doesn't contribute to the discussion in a positive way.

Very few here disagree with Cutler needing to improve in turnovers among other things. They are not disagreeing when that is pointed out, their disagreeing with the over all picture that is being painted...

Also, I don't think it is all that "interesting" Cutler played as he did all year.. He has barely touched a football, why would he play better? For me it sounds like just another reason to say, Cutler sucked in the Probowl, as he did all year..

Plus, IMO, he played worse in the Probowl then he did most of the year. Do we agree on that?

It was directed at the few of us that made an observation and defended it. Whether he threw a football or not in the past month, he still made a mistake in the same manner he usually does and this time did it with an all-star cast.. That's all. I dont think anyone expected him to play like a 10 year vet, but it was a matter of deja vu.

fcspikeit
02-10-2009, 05:06 PM
It was directed at the few of us that made an observation and defended it. Whether he threw a football or not in the past month, he still made a mistake in the same manner he usually does and this time did it with an all-star cast.. That's all. I dont think anyone expected him to play like a 10 year vet, but it was a matter of deja vu.

There you go, That is the picture most everyone is disagreeing with.

I'll agree the mistake he mad was in the same manner as the other mistakes he has made, but I don't agree "he still made a mistake in the same manner he usually does." The one simply means he repeated a past mistake. The other implies he made the same mistake he always makes.. Do you understand that?

Rather that's what you wanted to say or not, that's how it came across.

Some people are knowingly taking the opportunity to say, Cutler usually plays bad... That's what we're disagreeing with.. Is that what your saying or was your statement misrepresenting you?

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 08:53 PM
Like Elway. He sucks too.

No....but he IS retired.

:D

It's a new game. There's no reason qb's should take as long to get systems down. Hell, look at what last year's rooks did!

If the qb isn't smart enough to get it, then "dumb it down"!!! haha...wonder where I heard that at? :rolleyes:

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 08:58 PM
Actually, what you are providing is your private opinion of his general character.
Sorry, but I don't share it. I don't see that in him, generally.

Again, as I previously mentioned, Cutler's INT in the Pro Bowl was a freak incident.
As I reviewed it several times from different angles, I could see where Peppers
could be obscured from Cutler's view.

Cutler attempted what he should have in that instance: he threw it to his
safety valve. It so happened that Peppers came in as if he were rushing the
QB, then he suddenly dropped back into coverage, much the same thing as
Harrison did to Warner in the Super Bowl.

It did not appear to me so much as a reckless play on Cutler's part as it was a
stroke of genius on Peppers'.

-----

Hardly, top. He DOES get shook up, when he's forced from the pocket alot. He then does stupid things. Notice how he's calm/collected and has great stats when he can stand back there forever?
As for the cocky....look back at his stats BEFORE he said his arm was stronger than elways...then look at them AFTER. No personal opine, top....just arm-chair facts. And besides, top.....isn't that what we ALL have here? Our personal opinions?

And I didnt' even see the stupid PB. Why would I need to? He throws picks in the regular season, when there's alot on the line....why wouldn't he also, in a pickup game?

Maybe his mop-hair follicles are growing down into his scalp, also....and they're interfering with his decision making ability. :coffee:

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 09:07 PM
You sound like a tool saying stuff like that. Since when does Cutler "suck ass"? I don't think he's the best quarterback in the world... and he's definitely got some stuff to work on, but by no means does he suck ass. I think your evaluation of him sucks ass. Jay committed a lot more turnovers than we all wanted, but that was due in large part to other factors.

And he's definitely no Favre. He's got a strong arm like Favre, but thats about it. If he's still throwing into triple coverage when he's 35, then you can talk about that crap.

Hey, don't get your panties in a bunch. EVERY PLAYER IN EVERY SPORT has, at one time or another, sucked ass!

When he has multiple int's per game, and is sulking by his lonesome on the end of the bench, taking the team down with him, and he looks like he wishes he was on some beach, then hell yeah, I'll say he's sucking ass!

If that's being a "tool", then whatever you say. :lol:

Champ, imho, is one of the best corners in the league. And I'm still thankful for that trade. But ever since he was snubbed for the DMVP a couple years ago, he, IMO, has sucked ass!

If you can't criticize a player that's sucking ass on the playing field, then what you have is a man-crush.

But that's just my personal opinion. :elefant:

TXBRONC
02-10-2009, 09:09 PM
Hardly, top. He DOES get shook up, when he's forced from the pocket alot. He then does stupid things. Notice how he's calm/collected and has great stats when he can stand back there forever?
As for the cocky....look back at his stats BEFORE he said his arm was stronger than elways...then look at them AFTER. No personal opine, top....just arm-chair facts. And besides, top.....isn't that what we ALL have here? Our personal opinions?

And I didnt' even see the stupid PB. Why would I need to? He throws picks in the regular season, when there's alot on the line....why wouldn't he also, in a pickup game?

Maybe his mop-hair follicles are growing down into his scalp, also....and they're interfering with his decision making ability. :coffee:

Yep we all have our own opinions here. So what you present RC is opinion not fact.

When Jay is out of the pocket he has quarterback rating that is well over a 100. :coffee:

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 09:18 PM
Your analysis and your argument didn't include the phrase that Cutler "sucks ass". I think his response is directed at someone else who made that assinine statement.

It was used as a figure of speech! I'm sure most fans have at one time or another called a player a 'dumbass' for missing a pass, or fumbling or whatever! It wasn't directed at anybody on the boards. I was simply asking why cutler fans can't just ADMIT he's sucked on occasion, instead of making the same ol' excuses over and over and over and over and over again. "assinine statement"? Hardly, but thanks for your .02.

At least I didn't use a storyline to make a backhanded insult.


Simple really.

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 09:28 PM
I give up. No matter how simple you try to make a comment, someone will undoubtedly get offended, take it the wrong way, add words to it and blow it up into something that was never intended in the first place. it's ridiculous.

No SHIT! :rolleyes:

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 09:35 PM
Does that really matter? His peers have seen him play. They have gone up
against him. They know what he can do. It isn't as if this game is going to
have any effect on their judgment of him.

-----

Some might conclude that Rivers WAS screwed, after arguing against it.

They might also say Rivers wouldn't have lost the game.

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 09:45 PM
You are still throwing out shallow stats, Joe. First, it stands to reason that a
QB who is constantly playing from behind might have a higher percentage of
INTs than he might otherwise.

Second is in the percentage itself. The number of INTs is meaningless unless it
is compared against the number of passes attempted. With that in mind,
Cutler's INT percentage is a little high at 2.9%, as opposed to Warner's (2.3),
Rodgers' (2.4), Cassel's (2.1), Eli Manning's (2.1), Peyton's (2.2), Rivers' (2.3),
and Pennington's mind-blowing 1.5.

However, it is equivalent or under other QBs, such as Brees' (2.7), Ben's (3.2),
Palmer's (3.1), Romo's (3.1), and Delhomme's (2.9). "Mr. INT's" ratio, BTW,
was 4.2 :shocked:, way over Cutler's.

So, while one can look at Cutler's 18 INTs, one has also to look at Cutler's
number of passing attempts (616), yards (4,526), and the "defense" that was
supposed to allow fewer TDs by opponents and get opponents off the field.

As it is, yes, Cutler needs to improve . . . a fallacy of QBs who are guilty of
being young . . . but his performance last year was a whole lot better than
what you are endeavoring to put across.

-----

Your stats, top, show his % being WORSE than 1st yr players, in Rogers/Cassel. And almost as bad as Palmer, who's on a CRAPPY TEAM!
And both Rivers & Brees both had better stats all the way around....with D's not much better, if any, than denver's. They, too, fired their DC's.

What was your point? :confused:;)

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 10:03 PM
He gets a pass because he is still learning and maturing as a QB. The constant whining about his mistakes is baffling considering the guy just finished his second season. And INT's? Yea, they will go up because he had no running game to count on. Did you not watch the games this year? Whether you blame Shanny's scheme or the lack of a running game it doesnt change the fact that the poor schmuck had to air it out all year long.

Wow...reading what you're saying, you'd think it was cutler in the backfield all by his lonesome.

Check the stats, that people here are so worried about.

4.8ypc isn't shabby for a running game. In fact, it was 2nd in the league!

1800+ rushing yards...not exactly typical denver numbers, but again, not shabby.

And who says "the poor schmuck had to air it out all year long."? Did I miss a quote from Shanny?
Or was it simply "opening up" the playbook, that everybody so wanted?

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 10:13 PM
As ive stated a couple times not only in this thread but the Jake thread give him a couple more years. Let me know when that sinks in. :coffee:

YES, GREAT NORTHMAN! HOW DARE I QUESTION THE GREAT ENIGMA!!!!!
:rolleyes:

Care to post without the insults? :coffee:

TXBRONC
02-10-2009, 10:17 PM
Wow...reading what you're saying, you'd think it was cutler in the backfield all by his lonesome.

Check the stats, that people here are so worried about.

4.8ypc isn't shabby for a running game. In fact, it was 2nd in the league!

1800+ rushing yards...not exactly typical denver numbers, but again, not shabby.

And who says "the poor schmuck had to air it out all year long."? Did I miss a quote from Shanny?
Or was it simply "opening up" the playbook, that everybody so wanted?

Maybe you're not aware of this but opening up a playbook doesn't necessarily mean that you want to throw the ball over 600 times it means using more than you have the past.

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 10:20 PM
Yep we all have our own opinions here. So what you present RC is opinion not fact.

When Jay is out of the pocket he has quarterback rating that is well over a 100. :coffee:
1.Thanks for verifying my point.

2.Because he's not able to handle the rush while in the pocket, tx. Geez.

That's one reason for a roll-out, no? It's called in the huddle.

TXBRONC
02-10-2009, 10:23 PM
It was used as a figure of speech! I'm sure most fans have at one time or another called a player a 'dumbass' for missing a pass, or fumbling or whatever! It wasn't directed at anybody on the boards. I was simply asking why cutler fans can't just ADMIT he's sucked on occasion, instead of making the same ol' excuses over and over and over and over and over again. "assinine statement"? Hardly, but thanks for your .02.

At least I didn't use a childish storyline to make a backhanded insult.


Simple really.

Exact same question can be asked of you and others that offer up the same old tired excuse in defending Plummer. That's just my $.02.

TXBRONC
02-10-2009, 10:27 PM
1.Thanks for verifying my point.

2.Because he's not able to handle the rush while in the pocket, tx. Geez.

That's one reason for a roll-out, no? It's called in the huddle.

Yeah that right RC designed roll out plays were called in the huddle as well.

I don't know why you're confusing Cutler with his predecessor who was a sucked ass as a pocket passer.

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 10:29 PM
Maybe you're not aware of this but opening up a playbook doesn't necessarily mean that you want to throw the ball over 600 times it means using more than you have the past.

Doh....reeeeeallly? :confused:

So having a rocket-armed qb, which more than likely reminded Shanny of his first one *elway*, had NOTHING to do with wanting to utilize his arm more than any of the the post SB years?

And knowing that this league is known as a "copycat league", and seeing how Brady & co. lit up the scoreboards last year, Shanny had NO inkling of trying to do the same thing?

You're probably right, though, tx. I bet Shanny was aloof to your point, above, and that's why he was fired. Whodathunkit!? :tsk:

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 10:32 PM
Exact same question can be asked of you and others that offer up the same old tired excuse in defening Plummer. That's just my $.02.

I'd prolly buy Jake some earplugs, if that were the case. ;)

rcsodak
02-10-2009, 10:34 PM
Yeah that right RC designed roll out plays were called in the huddle as well.

I don't why you're confusing Cutler with his predecessor who was sucked ass as pocket passer.

Twist and spin all you want, tx. Doubt that'll make cutler not make those untimely pic6's, though.

TXBRONC
02-10-2009, 10:36 PM
Doh....reeeeeallly? :confused:

So having a rocket-armed qb, which more than likely reminded Shanny of his first one *elway*, had NOTHING to do with wanting to utilize his arm more than any of the the post SB years?

And knowing that this league is known as a "copycat league", and seeing how Brady & co. lit up the scoreboards last year, Shanny had NO inkling of trying to do the same thing?

You're probably right, though, tx. I bet Shanny was aloof to your point, above, and that's why he was fired. Whodathunkit!? :tsk:

And what was that you were saying about insulting other posters RC?

TXBRONC
02-10-2009, 10:37 PM
I'd prolly buy Jake some earplugs, if that were the case. ;)

You knew what I meant.

Simple Jaded
02-10-2009, 10:41 PM
Let me guess, another 14 pages of Plummer fans whining about Cutler's imperfections? That almost never gets old.......

TXBRONC
02-10-2009, 10:47 PM
Let me guess, another 14 pages of Plummer fans whining about Cutler's imperfections? That almost never gets old.......

Enriching isn't it? ;)

Simple Jaded
02-10-2009, 10:51 PM
Enriching isn't it? ;)

Is "Enriching" another word for pathetic?.......

TXBRONC
02-10-2009, 10:55 PM
Is "Enriching" another word for pathetic?.......

I suppose it could be.

Shazam!
02-10-2009, 10:57 PM
Cutler's predecessor somehow got a pass for even looking like a bum, yet our 4th year QB who is in his 3rd full year as the Starting in 2009, 'sucks.' Go figure.

Northman
02-11-2009, 06:28 AM
YES, GREAT NORTHMAN! HOW DARE I QUESTION THE GREAT ENIGMA!!!!!
:rolleyes:

Care to post without the insults? :coffee:


Well, i have to give you credit when you can recognize greatness. Here's a cookie for you.

CoachChaz
02-11-2009, 08:22 AM
This shit is useless, so I'll concede.

Jay Cutler and Jesus Christ are one in the same. Every mistake Jay makes is due to one of 3 things. 1. Bad defense 2. A running game that was among the best 3. He is young and has no talent around him.

Anyone that ever doubts Jay's abilities and shows any concern for his progress is a complete fool and should have their fan card revoked.

omac
02-11-2009, 09:13 AM
This shit is useless, so I'll concede.

Jay Cutler and Jesus Christ are one in the same. Every mistake Jay makes is due to one of 3 things. 1. Bad defense 2. A running game that was among the best 3. He is young and has no talent around him.

Anyone that ever doubts Jay's abilities and shows any concern for his progress is a complete fool and should have their fan card revoked.

Actually, no.

A lot of posters fall into either of 2 categories: those who think Jay Cutler is the best thing to happen to the Broncos in a long time, and those who won't give Cutler a reasonably fair chance, looking for anything to put him down, because he replaced their favorite QB, Jake Plummer.

There are a few posters who are objective enough to see all the good things he brings to the table, and all the positives he's accomplished, and still acknowledge his current weaknesses without giving excuses for them.

I know I have a bias, so I'll probably fall into the "best thing to happen to the Broncos" category.

I dare anyone not named topscribe or G_Money to announce that they're actually truly objective with regards to Cutler. :D

topscribe
02-11-2009, 11:02 AM
I see your still fighting the good fight top... :salute:

IMO this thread is proof, it doesn't matter what is said, people just keep going back to the same thing. I have seen you layout this play at least 3 times, I have laid it out a couple more, those wanting to bash, just don't care.. They were looking for a reason, to throw more shit and they found it.

It wouldn't have mattered if he won the freaking game MVP. They would just say, big deal, he can't do it when it counts.

It reminds me of those guys you find at every party who are always yelling and making a big deal out of nothing to get attention... They will say something completely off base just to stand out and be noticed. I always wonder if they know they are the laughing stock of the room? Maybe they just don't care that everyone is rolling their eyes and trying to get away from them? Just as long as their being talked about, regardless the reason, they feel better about themselves for being in the spotlight...

Oh, I give Cutler full credit for the bone-headed plays he has made, which
may be expected of a 2nd year player of his type. This just doesn't seem one
of them.

In too many instances, we are quick to point a finger at a person in an
incident, when we should have bothered to investigate a little further into
what really happened, who was where and when, and what was each
individual doing at the time.

-----

fcspikeit
02-11-2009, 01:31 PM
Oh, I give Cutler full credit for the bone-headed plays he has made, which
may be expected of a 2nd year player of his type. This just doesn't seem one
of them.

In too many instances, we are quick to point a finger at a person in an
incident, when we should have bothered to investigate a little further into
what really happened, who was where and when, and what was each
individual doing at the time.

-----

Investigating takes time top :D Its much easier to just drop in and say, he sucks! LOL

Cutler makes mistakes, He has had bad games. However, IMO, the good he brings outweighs the bad. He helps the Broncos a lot more then he hurts them.

Your an objective poster top, because of that, I always look forward to see what you have to say, and knowing what I do about you, I have to really check my stance when I'm in disagreement with you. There isn't much more a poster can bring to the table then that.

Your insights are respected by most everyone here :salute:

fcspikeit
02-11-2009, 01:34 PM
This shit is useless, so I'll concede.

Jay Cutler and Jesus Christ are one in the same. Every mistake Jay makes is due to one of 3 things. 1. Bad defense 2. A running game that was among the best 3. He is young and has no talent around him.

Anyone that ever doubts Jay's abilities and shows any concern for his progress is a complete fool and should have their fan card revoked.

Now was that so hard? :lol:

TXBRONC
02-11-2009, 03:01 PM
Investigating takes time top :D Its much easier to just drop in and say, he sucks! LOL

Cutler makes mistakes, He has had bad games. However, IMO, the good he brings outweighs the bad. He helps the Broncos a lot more then he hurts them.

Your an objective poster top, because of that, I always look forward to see what you have to say, and knowing what I do about you, I have to really check my stance when I'm in disagreement with you. There isn't much more a poster can bring to the table then that.

Your insights are respected by most everyone here :salute:

There is no quarterback in this League that doesn't make mistakes. Cutler is no acceptation to the rule. But like you FC I think the good he does outweighs the bad. His interception total was high but not astronomically high.

fcspikeit
02-11-2009, 03:25 PM
Oh, I give Cutler full credit for the bone-headed plays he has made, which
may be expected of a 2nd year player of his type. This just doesn't seem one
of them.

In too many instances, we are quick to point a finger at a person in an
incident, when we should have bothered to investigate a little further into
what really happened, who was where and when, and what was each
individual doing at the time.

-----


Investigating takes time top :D Its much easier to just drop in and say, he sucks! LOL

Cutler makes mistakes, He has had bad games. However, IMO, the good he brings outweighs the bad. He helps the Broncos a lot more then he hurts them.

Your an objective poster top, because of that, I always look forward to see what you have to say, and knowing what I do about you, I have to really check my stance when I'm in disagreement with you. There isn't much more a poster can bring to the table then that.

Your insights are respected by most everyone here :salute:

I just read where you said you wasn't a mod anymore top. :shocked: I could have saved myself all the brown nosing had I read that before posting... :tongue:


No but seriously, where you a mod here? When did you relinquish the duties?

fcspikeit
02-11-2009, 03:30 PM
There is no quarterback in this League that doesn't make mistakes. Cutler is no acceptation to the rule. But like you FC I think the good he does outweighs the bad. His interception total was high but not astronomically high.

IMO if he can continue to bring all the good and cut down on the bad, He could be the best QB in the NFL...

That might be asking to much? But a guy can always dream..

Here's hoping for 20 + TD's and 0 INT's next year :beer:

TXBRONC
02-11-2009, 03:39 PM
IMO if he can continue to bring all the good and cut down on the bad, He could be the best QB in the NFL...

That might be asking to much? But a guy can always dream..

Here's hoping for 20 + TD's and 0 INT's next year :beer:

I'm going to assume (as dangerous as that is) that you're being a wee bit facetious with 20 plus tds and 0 ints for next season. But it did set me to wondering if any quarterback from any era has ever started for an entire season and not thrown interception. :ponder:

fcspikeit
02-11-2009, 04:33 PM
I'm going to assume (as dangerous as that is) that you're being a wee bit facetious with 20 plus tds and 0 ints for next season. But it did set me to wondering if any quarterback from any era has ever started for an entire season and not thrown interception. :ponder:

I don't think a QB has ever started an entire season, without throwing an INT.. I could be wrong? If so, it probably wasn't remembered because the team on which the QB played, lost a few to many games for him to have been remembered for having a good year ;)

So what is an acceptable amount of Int's? Over 15 is to much and under 10 is probably a bit unreasonable?

It's hard to believe for most the bench mark for a QB to have a successful season comes down to a couple extra arrant throws..

TXBRONC
02-11-2009, 04:52 PM
I don't think a QB has ever started an entire season, without throwing an INT.. I could be wrong? If so, it probably wasn't remembered because the team on which the QB played, lost a few to many games for him to have been remembered for having a good year ;)

So what is an acceptable amount of Int's? Over 15 is to much and under 10 is probably a bit unreasonable?

It's hard to believe for most the bench mark for a QB to have a successful season comes down to a couple extra arrant throws..

All I know is that 20 interceptions or more is thought to be way to many regardless of how touchdowns they've thrown.

fcspikeit
02-11-2009, 05:10 PM
All I know is that 20 interceptions or more is thought to be way to many regardless of how touchdowns they've thrown.

Well, Jay had 18 and some thought that was to many even though he threw over 600 passes... Judging off that, 15 in an average year of 450 passes would be to many. That's why I said up to 15.

TXBRONC
02-11-2009, 05:24 PM
Well, Jay had 18 and some thought that was to many even though he threw over 600 passes... Judging off that, 15 in an average year of 450 passes would be to many. That's why I said up to 15.

For his career John Elway averaged 14 interceptions per year and he never had a season where his interception totals were in the single digits.

rcsodak
02-11-2009, 05:46 PM
And what was that you were saying about insulting other posters RC?

Maybe you're not aware of this but...

doh.....really???

So that's an insult to reply to your insult, insulting my intelligence? :confused:

ok.....whaaaaatever. :rolleyes:

Lonestar
02-11-2009, 05:51 PM
I don't think a QB has ever started an entire season, without throwing an INT.. I could be wrong? If so, it probably wasn't remembered because the team on which the QB played, lost a few to many games for him to have been remembered for having a good year ;)

So what is an acceptable amount of Int's? Over 15 is to much and under 10 is probably a bit unreasonable?

It's hard to believe for most the bench mark for a QB to have a successful season comes down to a couple extra arrant throws..


2 to 1 ratio is considerd very good anything under that is excellent.. some case it is not the QB fault throwing the ball and it bouncing out of the WR hands. Or getting tipped at the LOS some of those they have zero control over.. OTOH throwing into double or triple coverage is one of those things he should be able to mitigate..

Northman
02-11-2009, 05:51 PM
I'm going to assume (as dangerous as that is) that you're being a wee bit facetious with 20 plus tds and 0 ints for next season. But it did set me to wondering if any quarterback from any era has ever started for an entire season and not thrown interception. :ponder:

Doubt it, but Griese had some good numbers in 2000. 19 TDs, 4 Ints. One of his very few highlights but its almost impossible for a QB to do something like that. Especially if they are a pass happy team.

rcsodak
02-11-2009, 05:54 PM
Well, i have to give you credit when you can recognize greatness. Here's a cookie for you.

:laugh:




:rolleyes:









:lol:










:tsk:









:D

Lonestar
02-11-2009, 05:55 PM
Doubt it, but Griese had some good numbers in 2000. 19 TDs, 4 Ints. One of his very few highlights but its almost impossible for a QB to do something like that. Especially if they are a pass happy team.


If you remember correctly that was his season that was cut short by a shoulder separation.. IIRC and he was selected to the pro bowl because of those stats..

We all know that if you are running a WCO with very few passes of more than 15 yards and dink and dunk like he did for most of his career pick can really be cut down on..

just a side note..

Manning had one year with 49/9
and Brady 50/8

to say the least way out there..

TXBRONC
02-11-2009, 05:57 PM
So that's an insult to reply to your insult, insulting my intelligence? :confused:

ok.....whaaaaatever. :rolleyes:

I really don't recall insulting you. I do remember using some sarcasm but that was about it.

rcsodak
02-11-2009, 06:02 PM
Oh, I give Cutler full credit for the bone-headed plays he has made, which
may be expected of a 2nd year player of his type. This just doesn't seem one
of them.

In too many instances, we are quick to point a finger at a person in an
incident, when we should have bothered to investigate a little further into
what really happened, who was where and when, and what was each
individual doing at the time.

-----

First off, let's drop the "2nd year player" tag, huh?
He's been paid for 3yrs, and was called a "3rd yr qb" last year.

He's been in the league for 3 YEARS! Went through 3 CAMPS!! Participated in 3 SEASONS of preseason games!!! Sat in on/practiced in 3 YEARS of weekly preparations!!!! Watched from the sidelines, listened to the playcalling, watched tapes, of 11 regular season games in his first year!!!!!
And finally.......
.....he started the last 5 games in his first year!!!!!!

NOW, he's going to be a 4th yr qb.

He's HARDLY a "2nd year player". :rolleyes:

Lonestar
02-11-2009, 06:07 PM
This shit is useless, so I'll concede.

Jay Cutler and Jesus Christ are one in the same. Every mistake Jay makes is due to one of 3 things. 1. Bad defense 2. A running game that was among the best 3. He is young and has no talent around him.

Anyone that ever doubts Jay's abilities and shows any concern for his progress is a complete fool and should have their fan card revoked.

outstanding post

Just remember your dealing with fans that is short for fanatics.. so anyone hailed as the messiah must be great beyond all other measures..

they will not tolerate any one that does not fall into complete lockstep with them..

Yes here comes the mikey bashing again..:salute:

Because the mastermind hand picked him and installed a pocket passing attach and surrounded him with Marshall (4th round) and Eddie (who was really picked to be a KR specialist FIRST).. and a great OLT and a n almost complete shuffle of the OLINE..

then allowed him to basically pass deep to marshal even when double and triple covered.

He must be the second coming of Jesus or John depending on ones religion.. so your probably half correct with your assessment..

Jay will never need to improve because he is already perfect..The fanatics have spoken..:laugh::laugh:

rcsodak
02-11-2009, 06:11 PM
If you remember correctly that was his season that was cut short by a shoulder separation.. IIRC and he was selected to the pro bowl because of those stats..

We all know that if you are running a WCO with very few passes of more than 15 yards and dink and dunk like he did for most of his career pick can really be cut down on..

just a side note..

Manning had one year with 49/9
and Brady 50/8

to say the least way out there..

What about whatshisname down in jax, a couple years ago. He was awful close.

rcsodak
02-11-2009, 06:14 PM
I really don't recall insulting you. I do remember using some sarcasm but that was about it.

One man's sarcasm is another's insult.

"Doh....really?" is also sarcasm.
:rolleyes: is sarcasm.
:confused: is sarcasm.
:coffee: is sarcasm.
:shocked: is sarcasm.
:eek: is sarcasm.
:tsk: is sarcasm.

Class dismissed.
*sarcasm*

BroncoJoe
02-11-2009, 06:14 PM
Last words, because like Coach, I'm tired of trying to make a point.

I love Cutler, and am glad he's on our team.

He has a tendency to make mistakes at critical times. He throws too many interceptions.

His performance in the Pro-Bowl was a mirror of his season.

Anyone that can't admit the above needs is living in a fantasy world.

The end.

Lonestar
02-11-2009, 06:18 PM
What about whatshisname down in jax, a couple years ago. He was awful close.



I just looked at the two best QB I could think about actually I was wanting to do Brady but typed Manning instead.. Freudian slip I guess.

omac
02-11-2009, 06:51 PM
Last words, because like Coach, I'm tired of trying to make a point.

I love Cutler, and am glad he's on our team.

He has a tendency to make mistakes at critical times. He throws too many interceptions.

His performance in the Pro-Bowl was a mirror of his season.

Anyone that can't admit the above needs is living in a fantasy world.

The end.

Cutler did have a bad pro-bowl, but to say it was a mirror of his season is to say he didn't have a good season.

To focus only on him throwing bad INTs while not giving proper attention to his game winning drives, or great throws in clutch situations is just biased, too. That's also living in a dream world.

Funny about you and CoachChaz' comments about last words ....

On the Jay-makeover thread, I just stressed one point, and I tried to do it objectively with examples to emphasize that point, and simply asked the question ...

"Does the overall make-up of a team factor in the stats and win-loss record of a QB?"

Throughout that long thread, the question has been sidestepped or disregarded by Watchthemiddle, rcsodak, and later, CoachChaz. Why does a basic, seemingly obvious to answer question remain unanswered?

I'll answer your question easily: Did Jay make costly turnovers during the season like he did in the pro-bowl? Yes.

Now you answer mine: Did Jay make clutch, game winning drives and TDs during the season?

And if you say yes, then you can't say the pro-bowl mirrored his season, because it was only a part of what he's shown during the season, not his whole season. :cheers:

BroncoJoe
02-11-2009, 06:57 PM
The QB touches the ball on every single offensive play.

8-8.

omac
02-11-2009, 07:01 PM
The QB touches the ball on every single offensive play.

8-8.

And there you go, you didn't answer my straightforward, direct question either, LOL. :D

That's alright, I'll use your words and say you can live in your dream world. :cheers:

turftoad
02-11-2009, 07:04 PM
And there you go, you didn't answer my straightforward, direct question either, LOL. :D

That's alright, I'll use your words and say you can live in your dream world. :cheers:

I'll answer.

Yes he did,but........... not enough of them. To many ended up in stupid turnovers. Lets all hope he matures.

BroncoJoe
02-11-2009, 07:07 PM
And there you go, you didn't answer my straightforward, direct question either, LOL. :D

That's alright, I'll use your words and say you can live in your dream world. :cheers:

Did Cutler make some great plays? Yes.

Did Cutler make some stupid plays? Yes.

That's the point.

I, like others, are sick of the excuses. I want to see improvement. This whole thread was started because Cutler made the same mistake he made 18 times during the season. Throwing an interception.

I've stated on several occasions that I love having him as our QB. I want to see improvement, not stagnation. 18 picks is unacceptable. 2nd highest total in the league. Take off your orange colored glasses.

I'm tired of talking about it. Enjoy the thread.

topscribe
02-11-2009, 07:08 PM
The QB touches the ball on every single offensive play.

8-8.

Uh-uh . . . not with the Wildcat.



Or the fake punt.



:D



-----

topscribe
02-11-2009, 07:10 PM
First off, let's drop the "2nd year player" tag, huh?
He's been paid for 3yrs, and was called a "3rd yr qb" last year.

He's been in the league for 3 YEARS! Went through 3 CAMPS!! Participated in 3 SEASONS of preseason games!!! Sat in on/practiced in 3 YEARS of weekly preparations!!!! Watched from the sidelines, listened to the playcalling, watched tapes, of 11 regular season games in his first year!!!!!
And finally.......
.....he started the last 5 games in his first year!!!!!!

NOW, he's going to be a 4th yr qb.

He's HARDLY a "2nd year player". :rolleyes:

I don't know why I have to qualify it with "on the field" every damn time I post about it.

But, for the sake of the memory-challenged, I'll do that from now on. ;)



P.S. As those who have played football know, you learn in the game by
playing it, not watching it. You don't learn how to tend bar by sitting on the
other side of it.

-----

BroncoJoe
02-11-2009, 07:10 PM
P.S. In his 2 1/2 years, Cutler has thrown 37 interceptions and fumbled 24 times. EDIT: In 37 games played, 21 as a starter.

Is that OK with you? If you were his coach, would you not work on it with him?

That's the point.

Lonestar
02-11-2009, 07:13 PM
P.S. In his 2 1/2 years, Cutler has thrown 37 interceptions and fumbled 24 times.

Is that OK with you? If you were his coach, would you not work on it with him?

That's the point.

It sounded like mikey and Bates encouraged it..

BroncoJoe
02-11-2009, 07:24 PM
Why are you arguing with me about it? Because you want to argue? Is that it?

Why would I not want to work with him? When did I deny that he needs work?

And why would anyone Hi-5 you on this post?

I only tried to restore some reality and balance to the discussion. Go back and review my posts.

Sorry I said anything. :tsk:

-----

Am I "arguing" with just you? I didn't quote you, so why would you assume that?

Besides, I don't consider this arguing, just a simple disagreement.

BroncoJoe
02-11-2009, 07:30 PM
-----

We posted our comments at the same time-stamp. I was referring to what omac said.

omac
02-12-2009, 12:54 AM
Did Cutler make some great plays? Yes.

Did Cutler make some stupid plays? Yes.

That's the point.

I, like others, are sick of the excuses. I want to see improvement. This whole thread was started because Cutler made the same mistake he made 18 times during the season. Throwing an interception.

I've stated on several occasions that I love having him as our QB. I want to see improvement, not stagnation. 18 picks is unacceptable. 2nd highest total in the league. Take off your orange colored glasses.

I'm tired of talking about it. Enjoy the thread.

I'm glad you got around to answering the question directly.

While you're tired of people making excuses for Cutler, I'm tired of people not acknowledging the good things he has done for the Broncos, and only focusing on the negatives, and giving backhanded compliments. Being unreasonably critical is just as non-objective as being overly complimentary.

Now, you can go and enjoy the thread too. :cheers:

omac
02-12-2009, 01:03 AM
I'll answer.

Yes he did,but........... not enough of them. To many ended up in stupid turnovers. Lets all hope he matures.

And a lot of them ended in us winning games.

Maturity isn't the issue, though. He works hard, studies hard, listens to his coaches, and plays hard every game. He just has to learn that he doesn't need to make every play happen. It took Jake 6 years before he learned to do that, and even then, he went back to his error prone ways in his 10th season. Those things being considered, Jay is way ahead of the curve. :cheers:

Northman
02-12-2009, 06:30 AM
Can we beat this dead horse any better.

sneakers
02-12-2009, 06:33 AM
Can we beat this dead horse any better.

Ironic choice of words :lol:

TXBRONC
02-12-2009, 10:28 AM
Can we beat this dead horse any better.

Here ya go: :deadhorse: