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Denver Native (Carol)
02-04-2009, 10:06 PM
http://blog.denverbroncos.com/dumervil/2009/02/04/meeting-with-the-coaches/

Meeting With the Coaches

I’m back down in Miami now after spending most of last week in Denver. Back at my place in Denver, I took care of some little things around the house. I took care of my cars, ran a couple errands — did all the little things and all that.

Then I went down to Dove Valley, and I was able to meet and speak with the new coaching staff — I met everybody on the defensive side actually. I also met with Coach McDaniels. We had spoken on the phone a couple of times, but we hadn’t seen each other in person yet. We had a good meeting. It was really energized, and we’re both really pumped for this new year. We’re excited for the new challenges, changes. We’re heading in a new direction, trying to get a championship in Denver.

I spoke with all the defensive staff at the same time, actually. It wasn’t one-on-one. It was brief, but we talked about all the little things we have coming up. They’re excited for the new year too, and they think it’s going to be a fun year. It’s almost time to get guys going, get them ready for the offseason training programs. I talked to Coach Tuten, strength and conditioning coach, and I got my package of how I’ll be working out. I’ve been gaining weight, so now it’s time to get my mind ready for the beginning of the offseason program in March and get ready for this upcoming year. We didn’t go into detail on the workouts, but we just touched on the schedule of camps and minicamps.

I didn’t see any of my teammates in Denver, but Matthias Askew came down to my house in Miami for the Super Bowl. I haven’t seen anyone else though. As for the Super Bowl, it was a good game. It came down to the end, and it was a well-deserved win for the Steelers. And it would have been well-deserved for the Cardinals had they won. It was a really good game.

Until March when I come back, I’ll just be chilling down here in the Miami sun.

TXBRONC
02-04-2009, 10:15 PM
Thanks Carol.

I know he can't go into great detail about his conversations with the coaches, but did it seem maybe just a smige to bland?

Ziggy
02-04-2009, 10:23 PM
Is it just me, or does everyone who talks to McDaniels seem to mention something about great energy?

fcspikeit
02-04-2009, 10:33 PM
Is it just me, or does everyone who talks to McDaniels seem to mention something about great energy?

My thoughts exactly!

Either McDaniels is the most energetic person on the planet or these guys are being told to say that..

slim
02-04-2009, 10:37 PM
My thoughts exactly!

Either McDaniels is the most energetic person on the planet or these guys are being told to say that..

Frau, here is the conspiracy theory you have been looking for...fyi :coffee:

dogfish
02-04-2009, 11:51 PM
doooooom!



i think he's going to be badass coming off the edge in the 3-4-- can't wait to see what a coaching staff that will actually work to find and exploit mismatches can do with him. . . maybe it's an exaggeration, but i often feel like i'm about the only person around here who isn't down on him after this past year. . . i hear people talking junk about how we should just trade him for whatever we can get, even if it's just a 6th or 7th round pick, he isn't worth any more than that, blah blah blah. . . that shit kills me! dude gets 20 sacks his first two years in the league, suffers through one bad year marred by injury early and just general incompetence on the entire unit, and suddenly he forgot how to play and he's garbage?

i ain't buyin' it! and i'll be the guy serving crow if he comes back and lights it up next year-- i've got a reeeeal big supply laid away. . . .

:coffee:

Davii
02-04-2009, 11:54 PM
Is it just me, or does everyone who talks to McDaniels seem to mention something about great energy?

Maybe he's addicted to Red Bull and Monster's.

scott.475
02-04-2009, 11:56 PM
Well, this guy sets the standard for energy:

http://www.responseexpo.com/convdata/responseexpo/images/TonyLittle_REV.jpg

Until I hear Coach Josh and his staff have grown pony tales I am skeptical of all this "energy" talk. Come on Josh, "You can do it!" :lol:

BeefStew25
02-04-2009, 11:57 PM
Without the nicks and cuts of a blade.

fcspikeit
02-05-2009, 12:08 AM
Maybe he's addicted to Red Bull and Monster's.

I like the Sobe Adrenalin Rush, Have you tried that one?

Requiem / The Dagda
02-05-2009, 12:17 AM
Thanks for this article. Elvis' transition in a 3-4 is one of the most interesting things to me in all of this. . . he could actually be a real force. . .

BeefStew25
02-05-2009, 12:27 AM
Dream post Plummers pic.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-05-2009, 12:36 AM
Dream post Plummers pic.

Which ones? I got a bunch of them.

Rick
02-05-2009, 02:33 AM
With everyone talking about Doom being a 3-4 LB is this official yet that we ARE going 3-4?

I am hoping so as I like the 3-4 a great deal but I have not seen anything as of yet that says we are making the switch.

Anyone post anything on it that I have missed?

dogfish
02-05-2009, 02:38 AM
With everyone talking about Doom being a 3-4 LB is this official yet that we ARE going 3-4?

I am hoping so as I like the 3-4 a great deal but I have not seen anything as of yet that says we are making the switch.

Anyone post anything on it that I have missed?


don't ask me for a link off the top of my head, but mcdaniels has said that we'll use some of both fronts with gameplans changing from week to week. . . .

Ziggy
02-05-2009, 08:41 AM
Rick it sounds like they aren't going to go with any kind of set defensive formation yet. McDaniels said that one of the reasons he hired Nolan was for his versatility. He has run 4-3, 3-4, and hybrid defenses as a coordinator. From everything that has come out in the interviews, they are going to go with whatever base matches best with the offense that they are playing that week.

There are 2 ways to look at this....1. The Broncos are going to fit the scheme to the offense we are playing against, and best utilizing the tools that are currently in the shed, so to speak. 2. The Broncos will have a defense that will not force the issue and make offenses adjust to our scheme like the Steelers, Ravens, and Eagles do.

While we're transitioning in new players and upgrading the talent on D, I think that the approach they are taking is the only one that has a chance of working. If we can get some dominant 3-4 defenders in here, I think that it will eventually change to a pure base 3-4 with minor adjustments from week to week. For now, I'm expecting to see a pure ??? base with major adjustments from week to week.

Ziggy
02-05-2009, 08:43 AM
Well, this guy sets the standard for energy:

http://www.responseexpo.com/convdata/responseexpo/images/TonyLittle_REV.jpg

Until I hear Coach Josh and his staff have grown pony tales I am skeptical of all this "energy" talk. Come on Josh, "You can do it!" :lol:

That's not energy, that's untreated ADHD. :D

Rick
02-05-2009, 08:50 AM
Thank you for the feedback.

i had heard some talk that we were going to be a hybrid but hadn't heard anything official.

I would prefer to just go 3-4,but we shall see how this plays out.

Nice thing about Capers is he went right into GB and started making the changes to the 3-4 right off and assigned Kampman to LB.

TXBRONC
02-05-2009, 09:00 AM
Is it just me, or does everyone who talks to McDaniels seem to mention something about great energy?

Yep. :nod:

broncofaninfla
02-05-2009, 10:16 AM
I noticed Doom mentioned he is gaining weight. I wonder if he is slated to play DE or OLB?

TXBRONC
02-05-2009, 10:25 AM
I noticed Doom mentioned he is gaining weight. I wonder if he is slated to play DE or OLB?

My guess would be that at this point he is still slated to play defensive end.

Fan in Exile
02-05-2009, 10:41 AM
When he said that I was wondering if he meant to be putting on weight or if he was just enjoying the off-season.

TXBRONC
02-05-2009, 10:42 AM
When he said that I was wondering if he meant to be putting on weight or if he was just enjoying the off-season.

Could be.

Cugel
02-05-2009, 10:58 AM
doooooom!

i think he's going to be badass coming off the edge in the 3-4-- can't wait to see what a coaching staff that will actually work to find and exploit mismatches can do with him. . . maybe it's an exaggeration, but i often feel like i'm about the only person around here who isn't down on him after this past year. . . i hear people talking junk about how we should just trade him for whatever we can get, even if it's just a 6th or 7th round pick, he isn't worth any more than that, blah blah blah. . . that shit kills me! dude gets 20 sacks his first two years in the league, suffers through one bad year marred by injury early and just general incompetence on the entire unit, and suddenly he forgot how to play and he's garbage?

i ain't buyin' it! and i'll be the guy serving crow if he comes back and lights it up next year-- i've got a reeeeal big supply laid away. . . .

:coffee:

Well, we'll see if he can even play in a 3-4. I don't think he's done that yet so the jury is still out on that. He'd also have to demonstrate that he has some side to sideline flexibility to play OLB. Perhaps he'd be decent at the Strong-side OLB, because Jarvis Moss doesn't seem like a great bet at that spot.

Meanwhile Denver is still in need of 2 GOOD DEs who can play the 3-4 and always and of course a GOOD NT, in fact two good NTs. One a veteran who can step right in and start, and the other preferably a good young rookie to groom to replace him in a couple of years.

No small order. :coffee:

This is DOOM's final year under contract too, so it's decision time. Do they want to keep him and pay him a LOT of money (because any DE who has had a 10 sack season and isn't too old or injured will get BIG money) or else let him go when his contract expires?

TXBRONC
02-05-2009, 01:42 PM
Well, we'll see if he can even play in a 3-4. I don't think he's done that yet so the jury is still out on that. He'd also have to demonstrate that he has some side to sideline flexibility to play OLB. Perhaps he'd be decent at the Strong-side OLB, because Jarvis Moss doesn't seem like a great bet at that spot.

Meanwhile Denver is still in need of 2 GOOD DEs who can play the 3-4 and always and of course a GOOD NT, in fact two good NTs. One a veteran who can step right in and start, and the other preferably a good young rookie to groom to replace him in a couple of years.

No small order. :coffee:

This is DOOM's final year under contract too, so it's decision time. Do they want to keep him and pay him a LOT of money (because any DE who has had a 10 sack season and isn't too old or injured will get BIG money) or else let him go when his contract expires?

This is very true we don't know if Dumervil can make that transition. But in fairness Collier couldn't have know for sure if Fletcher or Mecklenburg would make the transition until he actually experimented with it. I'm not saying Dumervil will or wont be able too but I would be interested to find out.

Again I think you're right about the defensive line situation and yes it is no small order.

underrated29
02-05-2009, 02:00 PM
Well if we go by the blue runs posts nolan likes his guys real big. Maybe they figure if they can get doom up to about 280 or so he might make one heck of a LB in the 3-4. Obviously he needs his speed still, but maybe the extra weight and strength will allow nolan to get what he wants....

I dont see doom as a 3-4 de. I see him as a LB.

Lonestar
02-05-2009, 03:47 PM
doooooom!



i think he's going to be badass coming off the edge in the 3-4-- can't wait to see what a coaching staff that will actually work to find and exploit mismatches can do with him. . . maybe it's an exaggeration, but i often feel like i'm about the only person around here who isn't down on him after this past year. . . i hear people talking junk about how we should just trade him for whatever we can get, even if it's just a 6th or 7th round pick, he isn't worth any more than that, blah blah blah. . . that shit kills me! dude gets 20 sacks his first two years in the league, suffers through one bad year marred by injury early and just general incompetence on the entire unit, and suddenly he forgot how to play and he's garbage?

i ain't buyin' it! and i'll be the guy serving crow if he comes back and lights it up next year-- i've got a reeeeal big supply laid away. . . .

:coffee:

And perhaps it is the other teams now have book on him..

But I'd go with the with the "general incompetence on the entire unit" and more so coaching staff.. Side of what happened..

Dortoh
02-05-2009, 04:10 PM
They would be retarded to announce 3-4 or 4-3 before FA and the Draft. IMO

TXBRONC
02-05-2009, 04:54 PM
They would be retarded to announce 3-4 or 4-3 before FA and the Draft. IMO

Why do you say that Dortoh? From the standpoint of the draft I can understand where you're coming from but free agency could be a dead giveaway, if we sign someone like Peppers who has said publically he would like to play in a 3-4.

Dortoh
02-05-2009, 04:59 PM
Why do you say that Dortoh? From the standpoint of the draft I can understand where you're coming from but free agency could be a dead giveaway, if we sign someone like Peppers who has said publically he would like to play in a 3-4.

Of course if we are active in FA people will be able to make a pretty good guess but why let them know. There would be zero benefit to letting Joe six pack know what our plans were.

If certain teams knew for a fact we were going after a 3-4 NT in FA for instance his price just went up. Obviously if we land a 3-4 NT everyone will know but why give them anything to work with.

Not sure how to hide it all the way thru to the draft but at #12 the type of defense we are planning to play could affect some teams picking ahead of us or that are inclinded to move up to get ahead of us.

TXBRONC
02-05-2009, 09:37 PM
Of course if we are active in FA people will be able to make a pretty good guess but why let them know. There would be zero benefit to letting Joe six pack know what our plans were.

If certain teams knew for a fact we were going after a 3-4 NT in FA for instance his price just went up. Obviously if we land a 3-4 NT everyone will know but why give them anything to work with.

Not sure how to hide it all the way thru to the draft but at #12 the type of defense we are planning to play could affect some teams picking ahead of us or that are inclinded to move up to get ahead of us.

I don't think there really is anyway to hide it all the way to the draft. Someone is bound to figure it out.

Simple Jaded
02-05-2009, 10:44 PM
I don't think there really is anyway to hide it all the way to the draft. Someone is bound to figure it out.

I just hope the "Someone" is the Broncos.......

dogfish
02-05-2009, 10:44 PM
:rofl:

broncofaninfla
02-06-2009, 08:59 AM
HONOLULU — The Broncos have raised the possibility of converting defensive end Elvis Dumervil to an outside linebacker should the team convert to the 3-4 defense.
The decision to fully commit to the 3-4, however, has not been made.
"I'll do whatever necessary to help the team," Dumervil said Thursday in a telephone interview. "They're going to see what they can do in free agency and the draft first. We haven't really honed in on the personnel, yet."
Many 3-4 outside linebackers, such as Pittsburgh's James Harrison and Baltimore's Terrell Suggs, drop into a three-point stance as a defensive end on passing downs. On first or second downs, they either pass rush or drop into coverage.
New Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, defensive coordinator Mike Nolan and defensive line coach Wayne Nunnely are well-versed in the 3-4.
But for the past 14 seasons under coach Mike Shanahan, the Broncos have been a 4-3 defense and built their roster accordingly. There figures to be only so much room in the Broncos' budget once the free-agent market opens Feb. 27, and only nine draft picks (the team will have an extra selection in the fifth and seventh rounds) available on April 25-26, so it may not be possible to fully convert from the 4-3 to 3-4 in one season.
"If I were to do it, I would have to work on my backpedaling," Dumervil said. "I think it would be a good look for him," Suggs said.

TXBRONC
02-06-2009, 09:44 AM
I just hope the "Someone" is the Broncos.......

You know I meant something different. However my friend, I agree with the Broncos have figure it out first and then go out and aquire the right talent. With Nolan in as our defensive coordinator I like our chances better than I would if Slowik were still the defensive coordinator.

Fan in Exile
02-06-2009, 10:41 AM
You know I meant something different. However my friend, I agree with the Broncos have figure it out first and then go out and aquire the right talent. With Nolan in as our defensive coordinator I like our chances better than I would if Slowik were still the defensive coordinator.

I like our choices with a Ham Sandwich in charge, rather than Slowick. Stupid cushions and lack of pressure.

Cugel
02-06-2009, 10:43 AM
Not sure how to hide it all the way thru to the draft but at #12 the type of defense we are planning to play could affect some teams picking ahead of us or that are inclinded to move up to get ahead of us.

It doesn't work that way in real life. :coffee:

As for FA NTs, there are a LOT of teams looking for a starting FA NT. So, there will be plenty of competition and the price will be high whether the Broncos try and sign one or not.

Also, where a player is drafted depends a lot on where OTHER teams have ranked him, not just YOUR team. Of course, nobody really knows, but for the top elite players there's a real consensus. That's what is meant when we hear "so and so is a consensus top 10 pick." That simply means that NFL GMs generally are agreed as to where he will be drafted by other teams.

Example: 2007: The Browns desperately needed a franchise QB and Brady Quinn was available when they picked at #3. But, they knew OT Joe Thomas wouldn't be available outside the top 5 and Brady Quinn might well drop, allowing them to trade back up into the first round and get him later -- and they did exactly that. Who they drafted first was NOT based solely on need. IT was primarily based on an educated guess about where other teams had ranked the players they wanted.

So, it isn't a factor of teams "knowing your plans." Everybody generally knows EVERYBODY's plans. They know for instance that KC needs a starting QB, because Thigpen and Croyle aren't good enough, but they DON'T know whether Pioli is willing to use his #3 pick on Matt Stafford or Mark Sanchez. He might not, depending on who's available.

But, everybody knows what the Chiefs need and they know who's available to fill that need.

If the Broncos don't find 2 FA NTs they're going to be looking for one in the draft. Everybody knows that. So, if Raji is available at #12 (unlikely) then it's a good bet the Broncos will take him.

But, it really doesn't matter. Denver has so many needs that they could just as easily take a DE, RB, LB, S, or even CB with that pick. Just based on need you could make a case for taking any of those positions. And that's generally true of any team in the top 15 picks. They all have lots of holes.

So, how does going to a 3-4 tell teams who the Broncos will pick?

Does a team pay the price to get ahead of the Broncos to take BJ Raji, only to find they were set to grab LB Rey Maualuga anyway and take a DT in the 2nd round?

(That is an expensive mistake -- the Broncos made exactly that blunder in panicing and trading a 3rd round pick to move up 4 places -- just to make sure of getting Jarvis Moss). :tsk: Would not Jarvis Moss still have been there at #21? And if not, would that have been so terrible in hindsight? :coffee:

broncosinindy
02-06-2009, 10:46 AM
doooooom!



i think he's going to be badass coming off the edge in the 3-4-- can't wait to see what a coaching staff that will actually work to find and exploit mismatches can do with him. . . maybe it's an exaggeration, but i often feel like i'm about the only person around here who isn't down on him after this past year. . . i hear people talking junk about how we should just trade him for whatever we can get, even if it's just a 6th or 7th round pick, he isn't worth any more than that, blah blah blah. . . that shit kills me! dude gets 20 sacks his first two years in the league, suffers through one bad year marred by injury early and just general incompetence on the entire unit, and suddenly he forgot how to play and he's garbage?

i ain't buyin' it! and i'll be the guy serving crow if he comes back and lights it up next year-- i've got a reeeeal big supply laid away. . . .

:coffee:
My god dogfish who is that girl in yoru avi she is the best looking chick i have ever seen yummmy

TXBRONC
02-06-2009, 10:55 AM
I like our choices with a Ham Sandwich in charge, rather than Slowick. Stupid cushions and lack of pressure.

:rofl:

I sure can't argue with you there.

Fan in Exile
02-06-2009, 11:16 AM
:rofl:

I sure can't argue with you there.

I'm actually surprised at how frustrated I still am with the defense from last year. I mean good grief I should get over it already.

Dortoh
02-06-2009, 12:01 PM
It doesn't work that way in real life. :coffee:

As for FA NTs, there are a LOT of teams looking for a starting FA NT. So, there will be plenty of competition and the price will be high whether the Broncos try and sign one or not.

Also, where a player is drafted depends a lot on where OTHER teams have ranked him, not just YOUR team. Of course, nobody really knows, but for the top elite players there's a real consensus. That's what is meant when we hear "so and so is a consensus top 10 pick." That simply means that NFL GMs generally are agreed as to where he will be drafted by other teams.

Example: 2007: The Browns desperately needed a franchise QB and Brady Quinn was available when they picked at #3. But, they knew OT Joe Thomas wouldn't be available outside the top 5 and Brady Quinn might well drop, allowing them to trade back up into the first round and get him later -- and they did exactly that. Who they drafted first was NOT based solely on need. IT was primarily based on an educated guess about where other teams had ranked the players they wanted.

So, it isn't a factor of teams "knowing your plans." Everybody generally knows EVERYBODY's plans. They know for instance that KC needs a starting QB, because Thigpen and Croyle aren't good enough, but they DON'T know whether Pioli is willing to use his #3 pick on Matt Stafford or Mark Sanchez. He might not, depending on who's available.

But, everybody knows what the Chiefs need and they know who's available to fill that need.

If the Broncos don't find 2 FA NTs they're going to be looking for one in the draft. Everybody knows that. So, if Raji is available at #12 (unlikely) then it's a good bet the Broncos will take him.

But, it really doesn't matter. Denver has so many needs that they could just as easily take a DE, RB, LB, S, or even CB with that pick. Just based on need you could make a case for taking any of those positions. And that's generally true of any team in the top 15 picks. They all have lots of holes.

So, how does going to a 3-4 tell teams who the Broncos will pick?

Does a team pay the price to get ahead of the Broncos to take BJ Raji, only to find they were set to grab LB Rey Maualuga anyway and take a DT in the 2nd round?

(That is an expensive mistake -- the Broncos made exactly that blunder in panicing and trading a 3rd round pick to move up 4 places -- just to make sure of getting Jarvis Moss). :tsk: Would not Jarvis Moss still have been there at #21? And if not, would that have been so terrible in hindsight? :coffee:

I really dont disagree with all of that except if a team sitting around 13-18 sees Raji on the board during pick 11 and they really want them they will move ahead of Denver.

I guess it would be my thought process that if you really want someone you make the move to get him screw drafting for value. Exactly what the Broncos did with Moss; sadly it turned out badly but they obviously wanted him and made it happen. If Moss had turned into something the move would have been looked apon as a success.

Of course #11 (whoever that is) would be smart to contact the Broncos and let them know what #X has offered to move up and try and get something better from the Broncos.

Of course then again there is a reason me and my opinons on the subject are here and not Dove Valley :lol:

Damn it would be fun to be in the war rooms on draft day :D

underrated29
02-06-2009, 12:02 PM
I agree for the most part about what you said cugel. But i disagree that anyone even the browns thought brady would slide as far as he did.....

He should have ended up with the dolphins. But the dolphins made a historically stupid move by nabbing Ted Ginn jr for the 9th? pick overall....

No one thought that would happen. Even some of the dolphins staff was suprised i'm sure. The number #9 on a fast WR is the dumbest move ever....

But alas it worked out, right.

underrated29
02-06-2009, 12:05 PM
I really dont disagree with all of that except if a team sitting around 13-18 sees Raji on the board during pick 11 and they really want them they will move ahead of Denver.

I guess it would be my thought process that if you really want someone you make the move to get him screw drafting for value. Exactly what the Broncos did with Moss; sadly it turned out badly but they obviously wanted him and made it happen. If Moss had turned into something the move would have been looked apon as a success.

Of course #11 (whoever that is) would be smart to contact the Broncos and let them know what #X has offered to move up and try and get something better from the Broncos.

Of course then again there is a reason me and my opinons on the subject are here and not Dove Valley :lol:

Damn it would be fun to be in the war rooms on draft day :D



Imwith you there too....In Fantasy, i throw value out the window. I get the players i want when i want them. I took brees with the 11th pick last year, people were like whoa, that early- with romo, anderson and others still on the board.....

Thats why i have won 4-5 championships. You take the guys you need and will do good. And value takes a back seat to that.....Except when you are stupid and make jarvis moss moves. Then it bites you in the arse

TXBRONC
02-06-2009, 12:30 PM
I really dont disagree with all of that except if a team sitting around 13-18 sees Raji on the board during pick 11 and they really want them they will move ahead of Denver.

I guess it would be my thought process that if you really want someone you make the move to get him screw drafting for value. Exactly what the Broncos did with Moss; sadly it turned out badly but they obviously wanted him and made it happen. If Moss had turned into something the move would have been looked apon as a success.

Of course #11 (whoever that is) would be smart to contact the Broncos and let them know what #X has offered to move up and try and get something better from the Broncos.

Of course then again there is a reason me and my opinons on the subject are here and not Dove Valley :lol:

Damn it would be fun to be in the war rooms on draft day :D

I couldn't agree with you more it would be absolutely kickin to be in Denver's war room on draft day. I would be willing to be a gofer. :D

Cugel
02-06-2009, 12:32 PM
I really dont disagree with all of that except if a team sitting around 13-18 sees Raji on the board during pick 11 and they really want them they will move ahead of Denver.

I guess it would be my thought process that if you really want someone you make the move to get him screw drafting for value. Exactly what the Broncos did with Moss; sadly it turned out badly but they obviously wanted him and made it happen. If Moss had turned into something the move would have been looked apon as a success.

Of course #11 (whoever that is) would be smart to contact the Broncos and let them know what #X has offered to move up and try and get something better from the Broncos.

Of course then again there is a reason me and my opinons on the subject are here and not Dove Valley :lol:

Damn it would be fun to be in the war rooms on draft day :D

That would be fine if they do that! If they want Raji so badly, they'll have to pay a price, probably something like a 3rd round pick in the scenario you just mentioned. He MIGHT turn out great, but he might NOT too. Nothing's guaranteed.

Sometimes it's worth it to get the player you want, but a lot of times it isn't. Meanwhile the Broncos just take someone else. :coffee:

Also, it's not just a given you CAN move up and grab a player. Shanahan tried repeatedly over a period of years to get up into the top 10 to grab several different players and failed -- including Calvin Johnson from the Lions (good thing THAT didn't work or the Broncos probably wouldn't have a 1st round pick this year). Turns out that for about 3 or 4 years now NO top 10 team has traded down out of the top 10 -- and trades within the top 10 are rare. Lots of people said that the Dolphins or Rams should have traded back out of the top spot in 2008 and acquired picks, but they couldn't.

More times than not moving up to grab a player is a desperation move that doesn't pan out that well. Look at the Broncos trading up to grab DJ Williams in 2004!

You might say DJ did alright, but what about the players the Broncos COULD have drafted instead? Would they not have been just as good? And they wouldn't have had to give up an extra pick!

EX: Denver knew that the Saints were all set to draft DJ, so they traded a 3rd round pick to move up from #21 to #17 and take him ahead of the Saints at #18. Meanwhile the Saints just took a deep breath and drafted DE Will Smith who turned out pretty well for them.

But look at who the Broncos passed on who would have been available at #21 if they HADN'T traded up:

NT Vince Wilfork #21
DT Marcus Tubbs #23
RB Steven Jackson #26
TE Ben Watson #31
OLB Carlos Dansby #33 (2nd round).

Wilfork and Tubbs would have both been better picks and Jackson, Watson and Dansby would at least have been as good, and Dansby was a LB who wouldn't have cost them an extra pick.

So, you'd better KNOW that your pick is something special before you spend the extra to move up and grab him. :coffee:

Notice that the Patriots draft near the bottom of every round for years and still manage to find talent. They do that by being disciplined and doing their scouting well, and good coaching.

Meanwhile Shanahan often surprised the league with his draft picks, but NEVER in a good way! Marcus Nash, Willie Middlebrooks, Paul Toviesi, George Foster, Terry Pierce, Darius Watts, Maurice Clarett. Those were all big SURPRISES when Shanahan drafted them at least 1 or 2 rounds ahead of where other teams had them ranked. But it didn't work out did it? :coffee:

We'll get to see if Goodman & McDaniels have the discipline that Shanahan often lacked!

TXBRONC
02-06-2009, 12:34 PM
I agree for the most part about what you said cugel. But i disagree that anyone even the browns thought brady would slide as far as he did.....

He should have ended up with the dolphins. But the dolphins made a historically stupid move by nabbing Ted Ginn jr for the 9th? pick overall....

No one thought that would happen. Even some of the dolphins staff was suprised i'm sure. The number #9 on a fast WR is the dumbest move ever....

But alas it worked out, right.

The NFL invites a few collegiate player to Madison Square Garden because they are seen as one who will more than likely go in the top ten Quinn was there because they thought he would go in the top ten.

underrated29
02-06-2009, 12:46 PM
The NFL invites a few collegiate player to Madison Square Garden because they are seen as one who will more than likely go in the top ten Quinn was there because they thought he would go in the top ten.

Exactly. Was ginn in there? I cant remember. I know he moved up the draft boards quick, but not sure it was that quick. Quinn should have gone top 10 for sure.

Lonestar
02-06-2009, 01:00 PM
That would be fine if they do that! If they want Raji so badly, they'll have to pay a price, probably something like a 3rd round pick in the scenario you just mentioned. He MIGHT turn out great, but he might NOT too. Nothing's guaranteed.

Sometimes it's worth it to get the player you want, but a lot of times it isn't. Meanwhile the Broncos just take someone else. :coffee:

Also, it's not just a given you CAN move up and grab a player. Shanahan tried repeatedly over a period of years to get up into the top 10 to grab several different players and failed -- including Calvin Johnson from the Lions (good thing THAT didn't work or the Broncos probably wouldn't have a 1st round pick this year). Turns out that for about 3 or 4 years now NO top 10 team has traded down out of the top 10 -- and trades within the top 10 are rare. Lots of people said that the Dolphins or Rams should have traded back out of the top spot in 2008 and acquired picks, but they couldn't.

More times than not moving up to grab a player is a desperation move that doesn't pan out that well. Look at the Broncos trading up to grab DJ Williams in 2004!

You might say DJ did alright, but what about the players the Broncos COULD have drafted instead? Would they not have been just as good? And they wouldn't have had to give up an extra pick!

EX: Denver knew that the Saints were all set to draft DJ, so they traded a 3rd round pick to move up from #21 to #17 and take him ahead of the Saints at #18. Meanwhile the Saints just took a deep breath and drafted DE Will Smith who turned out pretty well for them.

But look at who the Broncos passed on who would have been available at #21 if they HADN'T traded up:

NT Vince Wilfork #21
DT Marcus Tubbs #23
RB Steven Jackson #26
TE Ben Watson #31
OLB Carlos Dansby #33 (2nd round).

Wilfork and Tubbs would have both been better picks and Jackson, Watson and Dansby would at least have been as good, and Dansby was a LB who wouldn't have cost them an extra pick.

So, you'd better KNOW that your pick is something special before you spend the extra to move up and grab him. :coffee:

Notice that the Patriots draft near the bottom of every round for years and still manage to find talent. They do that by being disciplined and doing their scouting well, and good coaching.

Meanwhile Shanahan often surprised the league with his draft picks, but NEVER in a good way! Marcus Nash, Willie Middlebrooks, Paul Toviesi, George Foster, Terry Pierce, Darius Watts, Maurice Clarett. Those were all big SURPRISES when Shanahan drafted them at least 1 or 2 rounds ahead of where other teams had them ranked. But it didn't work out did it? :coffee:

We'll get to see if Goodman & McDaniels have the discipline that Shanahan often lacked!


an outstanding post once again..

I glad mikey is not longer the guy making those decisions on draft day.. There was no doubt in my mind that he or someone fell in love with some of these clowns we took on day one and as you mentioned took them well before the should have been taken..
I really believe alot of it goes back to the TD draft we took him as a lark someone not projected as more the TC fodder at RB and that was practically unheard of through TC until he made that spectacular play on ST it Japan IIRC..

That got him noticed and saved him a spot at least on the team as a ST player and from there we know what happened.. I truly believe that mikey got so full of him self after that success.. that he believed he could do it every year..

TXBRONC
02-06-2009, 01:11 PM
Exactly. Was ginn in there? I cant remember. I know he moved up the draft boards quick, but not sure it was that quick. Quinn should have gone top 10 for sure.

IIRC no Ginn wasn't taken in the top ten.

CoachChaz
02-06-2009, 01:15 PM
I think a team would have to be crazy to trade out of the top 10. Even in the worst years of rookie talent, there will always be at least 10 players that should be able to immediately help a team...and if you're drafting top 10...you need that immediate help.

Dortoh
02-06-2009, 01:19 PM
That would be fine if they do that! If they want Raji so badly, they'll have to pay a price, probably something like a 3rd round pick in the scenario you just mentioned. He MIGHT turn out great, but he might NOT too. Nothing's guaranteed.

Sometimes it's worth it to get the player you want, but a lot of times it isn't. Meanwhile the Broncos just take someone else. :coffee:

Also, it's not just a given you CAN move up and grab a player. Shanahan tried repeatedly over a period of years to get up into the top 10 to grab several different players and failed -- including Calvin Johnson from the Lions (good thing THAT didn't work or the Broncos probably wouldn't have a 1st round pick this year). Turns out that for about 3 or 4 years now NO top 10 team has traded down out of the top 10 -- and trades within the top 10 are rare. Lots of people said that the Dolphins or Rams should have traded back out of the top spot in 2008 and acquired picks, but they couldn't.

More times than not moving up to grab a player is a desperation move that doesn't pan out that well. Look at the Broncos trading up to grab DJ Williams in 2004!

You might say DJ did alright, but what about the players the Broncos COULD have drafted instead? Would they not have been just as good? And they wouldn't have had to give up an extra pick!

EX: Denver knew that the Saints were all set to draft DJ, so they traded a 3rd round pick to move up from #21 to #17 and take him ahead of the Saints at #18. Meanwhile the Saints just took a deep breath and drafted DE Will Smith who turned out pretty well for them.

But look at who the Broncos passed on who would have been available at #21 if they HADN'T traded up:

NT Vince Wilfork #21
DT Marcus Tubbs #23
RB Steven Jackson #26
TE Ben Watson #31
OLB Carlos Dansby #33 (2nd round).

Wilfork and Tubbs would have both been better picks and Jackson, Watson and Dansby would at least have been as good, and Dansby was a LB who wouldn't have cost them an extra pick.

So, you'd better KNOW that your pick is something special before you spend the extra to move up and grab him. :coffee:

Notice that the Patriots draft near the bottom of every round for years and still manage to find talent. They do that by being disciplined and doing their scouting well, and good coaching.

Meanwhile Shanahan often surprised the league with his draft picks, but NEVER in a good way! Marcus Nash, Willie Middlebrooks, Paul Toviesi, George Foster, Terry Pierce, Darius Watts, Maurice Clarett. Those were all big SURPRISES when Shanahan drafted them at least 1 or 2 rounds ahead of where other teams had them ranked. But it didn't work out did it? :coffee:

We'll get to see if Goodman & McDaniels have the discipline that Shanahan often lacked!

Great post except the bolded parts. They make me wanna kick a puppy. :tsk:

So many wasted picks in all that mess

Lonestar
02-06-2009, 01:45 PM
I think a team would have to be crazy to trade out of the top 10. Even in the worst years of rookie talent, there will always be at least 10 players that should be able to immediately help a team...and if you're drafting top 10...you need that immediate help.

But in some cases if you can pick up a couple extra day one choices that can help also.. If you in the top ten most likely your not one super star away from a super bowl team either..

Dropping from 8 to 12-18 and a couple more choices might make the difference

Lonestar
02-06-2009, 01:51 PM
Great post except the bolded parts. They make me wanna kick a puppy. :tsk:

So many wasted picks in all that mess

going back and really looking at his choices from about 1996 through 2006 excepting 1RB portis, 3 LBs, one DE price and a few late round OLINE types and RBs he was beyond pathetic..

When he would make a decent pick like Hayward he did not have the sense to resign them before they became a FA..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=1400&type=team

CoachChaz
02-06-2009, 02:33 PM
But in some cases if you can pick up a couple extra day one choices that can help also.. If you in the top ten most likely your not one super star away from a super bowl team either..

Dropping from 8 to 12-18 and a couple more choices might make the difference

If #8 get's you a 5 star player that fills a big need and 12-18 gets you a 4 star player or even a 5 star at a position you may not need as badly, it doesnt make sense to trade back. Even if you can pick up 2 other picks later on.

If a team had a clue what to do with those extra picks to begin with...they probably wouldnt be drafting top 10.

Lonestar
02-06-2009, 02:38 PM
If #8 get's you a 5 star player that fills a big need and 12-18 gets you a 4 star player or even a 5 star at a position you may not need as badly, it doesnt make sense to trade back. Even if you can pick up 2 other picks later on.

If a team had a clue what to do with those extra picks to begin with...they probably wouldnt be drafting top 10.


Very true but every so often there is a regime change like in ATL or MIA last year and having those extra picks can do wonders.. God Only knows that could be true in DET this year but then they are numero uno..

KC could work but then they are in division also..

Cugel
02-07-2009, 02:54 PM
Great post except the bolded parts. They make me wanna kick a puppy. :tsk:

So many wasted picks in all that mess

Go ahead! You know you'll feel better! :laugh:

http://www.dowlendesign.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/puppy_kick.jpg.w180h180.jpg

broncosinindy
02-07-2009, 03:55 PM
Denver has the talent on O. Not so much on the D side of the ball. If we can move down and get three first day picks(possible three starters) and two impact FA's this team very well could be in buisness